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This is it matters, a show that digs beneath the surface of our political landscape, pop culture, and the 2024 election.
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I'm your host, Michael Starr-Hopkins.
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I'm a born-bred Washingtonian who knows the ins and outs of DC.
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I've work with political heavyweights from presidents to governors and members to Congress.
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I also write for and appear on The Hill, the Daily Beast, MSNBC, and News Station.
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Now I'm bringing you prominent politicians and cultural artists and non-filter truth.
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So buckle up and join me as we navigate this crazy world together and look at the situations that matter the most.
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This is it matters.
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Let's dive in.
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And welcome to the show.
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We've got Kyvon Stroff.
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How are you, and good, good to join you.
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Hey, thanks so much for uh for joining the show.
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I wanted to have you on to talk about the 2024 election uh and Democrats.
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Uh you're a political consultant, you kind of move around DC and the political world.
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Um talk to me about No we all.
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At least we try to.
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Um talk to me about the 2024 election uh and why the stakes are so high.
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Sure.
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Well, I think it can sound sort of tepid to describe, you know, the realities that I think would happen in 2024.
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But Trump, just as he did in 2016, and I was on the Clinton campaign, has really narrated exactly what he and his crew will do if they win the White House again through Project 2025 and so many other things.
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Obviously, that specific example is a focus on really installing an authoritarian government at the federal level, firing, you know, neutral public servants, installing loyalists.
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The list really goes on there of the level of retribution Trump sort of wants to get against journalists and political dissenters and all that stuff.
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Um, but I think even just looking to the people that he surrounds himself with, we've seen how awful these people are.
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And I mean, you know, the crew, it's funny to watch the Cohen trials kind of and see um, you know, the testimony from folks like him, but even Hope Hicks.
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Like, remember reading about Hope Hicks every day and who she was sleeping with and the various abusers and awful people that were running our country, and who would want that again?
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Who are some of the worst people that Trump surrounds himself with?
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Well, I think that he always has, it seems like, some long-term, and I think, you know, it's worth pointing out, these people did not just come up with Trump.
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They've been in the Republican sort of orbit for decades.
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He has these legal advisors who sort of come up with these awful plans, whether it's from the Heritage Foundation or it's folks like Josh Hawley or Elise Stefanak, who, you know, comes up with like the most ridiculous talking point and parrots it over and over again and calls the Jan 6 rioters um hostages.
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You know, he's looking for those folks that can sort of sell this BS to people on a mass scale, and he seems to have an endless supply of them.
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You've got the Stephen Millers of the world who are really leading not just his uh immigration plan to round up uh undocumented uh individuals, but also uh implement Project 2025 that you've talked about.
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Uh, what is it about the Stephen Millers of the world that make them so dangerous?
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Yeah, I mean, they seem driven not by any sort of rationality, but just pure bigotry and hate.
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And I mean, you look at the guy, and I don't think most people want to swap places with him, but even just looking at a guy, um, oh, his name, John McKenty, is another, you know, sort of guy in Trump's orbit, and he's just gone viral for, you know, saying he likes to give homeless people fake$5 bills so that when they spend the money, they get arrested.
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I mean, he says he's joking now that he's gotten all this backlash.
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Yeah.
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But like what kind of sick person even jokes about something like that?
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I mean, these are disturbed people, they are not, you know, particularly qualified or successful people in their own right.
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They've really been given an sort of outsized amount of influence simply because they're willing to be that awful on Trump's behalf and be those yes men who keep coming to his defense and coming up with the next awful crazy idea.
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It does seem like there's like a uh meanness that's baked in.
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Is that part of where Republicans are now?
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Or is that kind of where Republicans have always been?
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Yeah, you know, I think it's interesting to watch.
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There's certainly a more in-your-face level of vitriol, but at the end of the day, if you look at what the Republican agenda economically, socially has been for decades and decades and decades, it is mean and it is nasty, and it's not good for the country, and we've seen that again and again and again.
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So, sure, do I I think both to win and just out of we all have to live together in this country?
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Am I more open to folks like George Conway who want to come over?
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Sure, come on over.
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But let's be clear what they stood for.
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Let's be clear that he was celebrating when Roe v.
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Wade was overturned.
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I mean, we've we've known exactly who these people are.
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And by the way, if you're gonna do it, at least be like George Conway and write a million-dollar check to the Biden campaign, you know.
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So, um, so no, I don't think there's been much difference.
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What's been sort of clear here is forcing people to and allowing people to openly admit and accept that this is what they want to see more of.
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Why haven't Democrats been more successful in their messaging around this?
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I mean, you've seen victories in 2020 uh and the midterms in 2022, but it doesn't feel like the message itself is resonating.
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Right.
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I mean, it's kind of an interesting dynamic, and I'm sure you've encountered this too, where you know, Democrats did win in 2020, they did win in 2022, they did win in 2023, despite all the polls saying, you know, they're doom and gloom.
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And yet there is sort of, I at least as a Democratic commentator, I always feel like I'm, you know, on defense defending the platform position, the campaigning.
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I think, first of all, just think of a school yard yard bully.
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It's so easy to call somebody names and spread hate.
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To lead with policy that's going to deliver outcomes for people and explain that is a much harder task.
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So we're not really competing on the same ground, frankly.
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Now, I do think we have to be smarter about the way we engage and specifically communicate, because that means there isn't zero room for that sort of more quick touch, viral, get out this bad talking point, point out Trump glitched, point out Trump looks crazy, whatever it is.
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I mean, that has an effect on people, and people do really vote on that stuff, whether we like it or not.
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Um, so you know, should it come down to who would you rather have a beer with, like we've said for decades and decades?
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Probably not, but you know, there is a little piece of that.
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So, I mean, I think Joe Biden's decent at that.
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I had Sean Sweiser on a couple weeks ago, and uh he talked about how he thought, you know, similarly, that the media was built against Republicans, um, and that kind of the justification for um the Fox News of the world is that there has been so much um liberal bias amongst Hollywood, amongst late night TV.
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Um, what do you say to that?
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Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting.
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You know, one thing that jumps out to me is sort of Republicans try to delusionally smear the left as anti-Semitic, and certainly we should call out there has been anti-Semitism on both sides, but it is on both sides.
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And I think if you want to look and compare, you know, some college students maybe saying things they should have investigated further or been more responsible about, versus Sean Spicer, who, when he was press secretary in his very first year, got up and spewed Holocaust denialism from the White House press secretary podium.
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I mean, I think that's much more disgraceful.
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Of course, we have a media ecosystem that treats those as the same, or maybe that this random college student is worse doing it.
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You know, so I think that is a dynamic.
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Also, I mean, it's easy to sort of frame things that way.
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And I think if you don't really try to think about something critically, it sounds true that, oh, well, they were harsh on Trump.
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Now they're harsh on Biden.
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They were harsh on Trump and Sean Spicer and all those folks because they were lying.
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And that's actually a valuable role for the free press to play, to fact-check, to make sure the truth is out there.
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There is a belief uh among a big portion of the country that Democrats are out of touch with mainstream America, uh, that our belief system is super left, it's too super progressive, that the beliefs of AOC, who I like and have a lot of respect for, represent the belief of the whole party.
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Like, how can you how do we on one hand have AOC and uh Congresswoman uh Otmar and also have Joe Manchin and uh Christian cinema, who well, I think that's kind of part of this conversation we're having about media, right?
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Because if you look at the facts, the party is very much not the party of AOC.
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In fact, if you actually look at the reality, the Republican Party is far more the party of Marjorie Taylor Green, and I think it's almost an insult to compare the two because AOC is actually substantive, whether or not you agree with her.
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But the AOC, the Ilhan Omar, the squad, so-called, that's four people.
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That's five people out of the entire Democratic caucus.
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So the idea, again, it it is an information war that Democrats are losing, and I think institutional media certainly has a role to play there.
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For Jamie Dimon to say that Trump was right about China, for example, that is ahistorical.
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There's no support for it.
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If anything, Trump was China's stooch.
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He got millions of dollars from China, his daughter got those patents from China, he let China off the hook, now he's taking China's side on TikTok.
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But the reality is, I bet if you ask most people who's tougher on China, despite Joe Biden just say, you know, announcing that new list of tariffs, despite him cracking down on TikTok, all of it, the perception is off.
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And sure, Democrats have a role to play.
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It's not, you know, frankly, it's their they care the most about this.
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It's them who will lose or win, right?
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But there are sort of supposed to be these unbiased refs that are totally in the tank and really have a different agenda, I think.
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What do you think the role of money of politics uh is ultimately gonna play?
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Whether it's Democrats or Republicans, we can both look at the fact that donors are playing such an outsized role in the messaging and the policies in our party.
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Like, what what do we do about it?
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Yeah.
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Well, I do think Democrats particularly have a problem with this because the message, it's nothing new, but it's certainly something that I think young voters in particular find incredibly distasteful and disheartening and makes them want to not engage at all.
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And I think Israel and Palestine right now is a perfect example.
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So I was just gonna say, you know, my own views aside on the issue, because it's less relevant to the conversation.
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You know, look at what's happening with the funding of opponents, primary opponents, to pro-Palestine, if you want to call them that, congressmen folks like Jamal Bowman, who certainly has other views.
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Yeah, I was gonna say in the background, absolutely.
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So I don't want to pretend that's not the case, but to I think a lot of young folks, they look at that situation and they say, well, this is all a money-driven thing.
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And there's a lot of problematic sort of, I think, invective built up in that, but like it comes across a certain way to that demographic.
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Again, it's the only, and frankly, I don't think Republicans have a shot in hell at that demographic.
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So it really ends up being Democrats' problem because they want to keep those people on board and engaged for this election in the future, because that's how we win.
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Yeah, it feels like this election is gonna be a get out the vote uh turnout election, not a policy-based election.
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Like people know at the end of the day who they're voting for.
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We've we've had this runway before.
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Well, I think it's honestly it's not to fall in love with the candidate here, it's to pick who's going to be best to deliver the outcomes that are gonna be best for you and your community and the future of our country.
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So get over it.
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Like to me, that's a fine message.
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Frankly, I think it's a message that makes a lot of people feel sane after years and years and years of being gaslit about all these things.
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You know, you said this won't be an election about policy.
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I think you're probably right, but you know, that whether it's 5% or 10% or 15% that it is about policy, we better make sure that those folks have the facts on this administration versus what they lived through, you know, under Trump.
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I think we should be making political hay of all of it.
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And in fact, I look at somebody like Sheldon Whitehouse, who I think is great at this and is talking about, you know, Trump recently sort of gave a comment um that he wants to do this quid pro quo with oil executives and give him a billion dollars, he'll overturn all the climate regulations, blah, blah, blah.
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And he said this openly.
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He said this openly.
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Right, of course, of course.
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That is how Trump does it.
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If he says it openly, it somehow makes it less corrupt and less illegal.
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No, absolutely.
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And what Sheldon Whitehouse says, we're gonna look into this probably.
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We're probably gonna investigate that.
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Absolutely.
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I mean, you have Republicans investigating made-up scandals.
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Let's investigate some real shit here.
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Like, right?
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I mean, I don't know.
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What do we do with all of the Republicans?
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And you're gonna stop there.
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At some point, Trump's gonna be gone, and there are gonna be tens of millions of Republicans who supported him who are gonna need to take that support somewhere else.
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There are, even though if there's very few, there are Trump supporters who voted for Obama and then voted for Trump.
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For the life of me, I don't understand who they are, how it happened.
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I know some, and I just it blows my mind.
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How did Democrats get some of those Trump voters back?
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I know that's the conversation that we always have around election season, but like, yeah, we have to for the sake of the country.
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Because we're for damn sure not going over there.
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I'd split those folks into two groups.
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I think that there's certainly a group, um, people of color, Hispanic communities that have been viciously targeted, specifically Hispanic communities with disinformation on WhatsApp, and it's a very top-down effort to, you know, get them to have not even the basic facts about the reality of the country today.
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They're often targeted in, you know, Spanish language.
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So it's hard for others to just quickly fact check.
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They're on local trusted channels.
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That's a big problem, and I think the Democrats are investing there, and that's again gumps back to the money issue.
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But then I think there's a lot of folks like the folks that Nicole Shanahan and RFK Jr.
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are playing for, the bored, wealthy, over-educated folks who want to shake it up and they love disruption.
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They'll say all the time, you're gonna burn selfish people, burn it all.
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Then there's selfish people, they don't care, they're bored out of their mind, they're gonna be fine, whoever the president is.
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And I don't think we should listen to them, and I certainly don't think we should be burning cash trying to get their vote because they're like such like pick me, you know.
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Like, I don't know, it's like that, like Gen Z.
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You know, they want attention, they really want attention.
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And to me, it's online too, right?
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There's always these people tell me why I should vote for Biden.
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It's like, I'm not gonna tell you why I should vote for Biden, like at some point, people should do their own homework, like right.
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Of course, it's like it's not on me.
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Like, I'm on here to share the good messages, the good works of the Democratic Party, connect with folks I think that are making meaningful, making a meaningful difference, you know, like it has nothing to do with like some troll in my comments.
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So I find it challenging to engage those people, especially a lot of those folks are highly educated, privileged individuals.
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So, you know, I don't to me, if there's a voter that sat out the 2016 election, which there were a hundred million Americans that did not vote, that's somebody worth fighting to get information to, to get engaged, to understand how we can bring them on board.
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Somebody who has all the information and wants to have a five-hour conversation every day about this.
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Like, I don't know.
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How did you get into doing TV commentary?
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I always think it's interesting to hear people's stories.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, actually, so I just always so I was on I did digital stuff for Hillary.
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Kind of before that, I'd done some social media stuff.
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I graduated from Brown in 2015, and like everyone on earth was a huge birdie supporter.
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So like my Facebook feed, everything was just a flood of like memes.
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And like this was like back when like trending hashtags were a thing and blah, blah, blah.
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So I realized like there was this huge gap for all these like 40 to 60-year-old, like, probably on average women that loved Hillary Clinton, but they weren't, you know, like making memes on their phone, they weren't jumping on the debates to create hashtags.
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I just started doing that and I built like a decent following, then was on the campaign and kind of continued from there to grow.
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And then when I was in grad school in Boston, I got asked to be on uh the local TV station from that, like a couple of times to comment on like Elizabeth Warren and the primaries and all that stuff.
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Uh and I loved it.
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So when I moved to New York, I was like, all right, well, all the studios are here, everything's here, and I'm in DC enough too.
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So so let me try it.
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And obviously, it's been uh no shortage of stuff to talk about since.
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Uh what's been your favorite part about doing it?
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You know, I really like actually this long form type stuff so much better because like, you know, to go and like say a hit for like some random topic of the day, like peek talking to other people with a different lens, similar goal, good intentions.
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And you know, I did like even like Steve Schmidt's podcast, I did.
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It's like, yeah, you know, like look, like this is a guy I probably would never have imagined that I would agree with on, but uh so much.
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But you know, we have a shared goal here.
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It's such an important shared goal.
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It makes you feel better in a certain way about the foundation of the country, if we can say yeah, it's interesting.
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When you go sit in the green rooms at the different studios, it actually can be like one of the rare instances of when I think you do have a little bit of faith restored in our process, because people who publicly will be at each other's throat will go into the green room and have a conversation and like seem to find some common ground until they get back out on set.
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Yeah, you know, it's funny.
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I will say you asked me the best part, that is the best part.
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The hardest part for me is probably that I don't know if it's an age thing, if it's like a cynicism thing.
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To me, it's like I don't want to go sit next to breathe the same air as pretend to be BFFs with some person who's like then gonna defend Trump for being a white nationalist.
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So, like, of course, it's totally reasonable for Ann Culture to say that she never vote for an Indian.
00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:30.240
It's like, well, okay, you literally don't see me as a person.
00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:32.799
Like, I'm not gonna smile at you unless it's on camera.
00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:33.920
No, I'm just kidding.
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.039
My favorite, honestly, my absolute favorite.
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:41.359
I loved Allison Camarado when she had her show on Sienna tonight.
00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:46.319
I thought she was incredibly talented, just like a force of nature to watch.
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:51.920
Like no one else was able to be so engaged with each of the she had a four-guest panel when I was doing it.
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:58.480
She knew the facts about them, she'd be charming, she'd bring stuff up, and she'd get to, you know, she'd sort of cut through the nonsense.
00:18:58.559 --> 00:18:59.599
So I really appreciate it.
00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:01.200
Yeah, I think there are a lot of great hosts.
00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:03.519
I actually do think Blake's great.
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:04.880
Later we're gonna have to.
00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:08.319
So I'll give him uh a pass.
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.720
We'll have to all sit down someday to have dinner and all hang out.
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:16.640
I think Brianna at CNN is great.
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:18.880
I think Laura Coates is great.
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:21.519
Uh, I think Caitlin Collins is great.
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.960
I think there's like a really great I like Shane McConnell.
00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:26.240
Yeah, Shane's Shane's great.
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:33.920
I did when I was uh I started out at Fox and Fox News as kind of like their black Democrat back in the day.
00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:39.279
Uh and like Shane and Blake and a bunch of like trying to think who else.
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:48.880
Uh Ellison Barber, um, who's now at NBC Unionist now, uh I like came up with a lot of those people and trying to think who else.
00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:51.599
A lot of the producers make the same cycle too.
00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:56.000
Like people who will be at Fox one day will be at CNN and MSNBC.
00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:57.519
Yeah, it's like oh, you know who I love?
00:19:57.599 --> 00:19:58.799
I love a lot of the scripts, people.
00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:01.759
I think there's yeah, Chris Stewart's great.
00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:14.079
I like I have been lucky in that, or I guess it's a it's sort of a mixed bag, but I always tell people like my goal because I was talking to people early on, and they're like, oh well, why don't you reach out to Jessica Charlov?
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:16.240
She's so great, and why don't you go on Fox more and blah blah blah.
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:21.119
And it took a long time to actually go on Fox, and now that I've been doing it a long time, I I do because I feel more comfortable.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:24.319
But you know, my goal is not to be on TV long term.
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:29.759
You know, I'm I'm 30 now and I'm excited that I was able to do it and will do it as much as I can.
00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:31.839
And I love like it's fun for me.
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:45.839
But you know, I'm not out here to like say a bunch of crazy crap and go viral for it and get the next booking, or you know, play the Democrat who's gonna say some crazy thing and you have the Republican who's saying some equally crazy thing.
00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:50.160
It's like, I'm here to say what I think, share my experience, talk about my background.
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:51.920
If that's boring, it's boring.
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:54.480
If it's you know too aggressive, it's too aggressive.
00:20:54.640 --> 00:21:04.559
It's like I think it's important if like to speak truth to power and all in you know, if when you're disagreeing, like disagree without being disagreeable most of the time.
00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:06.559
I it is interesting.
00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:16.640
Every show kind of has its own unique kind of character to it and its own unique uh group of cast members.
00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:21.039
I am it's almost like like it's contributors, the people who are regulars and stuff like that.
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:32.319
What's it been like as you kind of make your rounds, and what advice do you give to people who maybe one a day want to be a contributor or want to get involved with doing on air work?
00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.720
It's such like a uh insider's group.
00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:37.920
People never people never really tell people how to do it.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:38.799
Yeah, right.
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:39.680
No, it's so true.
00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:48.000
You know, I will say some of the best advice I've gotten is from a you know older woman Republican mentor of mine who has just told me everything.
00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:52.640
And she said to me right away Nobody in your sandbox is gonna help you.
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:58.160
And what she meant by that is not one Democrat is ever gonna tell you one thing about getting on TV.
00:21:58.319 --> 00:21:59.599
And it's so true, you know.
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:09.200
No matter how many retweets or whatever we've done for each other or blah blah blah blah blah, there's not been one Democrat that has offered a tip, even by the way, is it Nan Hayworth?
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:10.720
No.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:12.559
I love Nan.
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:13.759
Nance Wilde.
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:14.559
She's not a Democrat.
00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:17.920
It's like, no, no, no, no.
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:18.160
No.
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:19.200
No, no, no.
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:19.680
She is nice.
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:20.400
She did give me advice.
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:21.759
She told me to read a book by Hayek.
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:23.039
She actually is from my same town.
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:24.640
I was on the hill with her.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:24.960
Okay.
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:32.880
Um, the good advice that I got, which was not advice I wanted to hear at the time, because I was like, well, why don't you just sign me exclusively to one network?
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:38.160
You know, is like doing the rounds, going across networks, and seeing where you really do have a fit and a culture fit.
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:41.119
And like obviously we're joking about, you know, who we like and don't like.
00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:44.640
I mean, not really, I just told you who I don't well, you're saving yourself.
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:51.920
But I like to ask this question uh in closing what what's the American dream?
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:57.279
And where do you see it the day after the election?
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:00.240
Ooh, the day after the election is rough.
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:13.200
Um I I think the American dream is that sort of hokey definition that if you work hard and play by the rules, you should get to do better than the generation before you.
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:15.279
And you know, it doesn't have to be bound that way.
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:19.279
It's not that like one generation has to have it terrible, so the next can have it better and better.
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:23.519
There should be ample opportunity in the richest country in the world for everyone.
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:28.640
And we should invest in our people and our systems and our institutions to make that the case.
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:35.920
And one of the things I hate about the criticism of Democrats and Cornell West was a professor of mine, and I think this is the main flaw in what he said.
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:43.920
Author of Zar Ace Matters, uh, one of, I think, one of the most important books written in a long time, and now not the same person that he was then.
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.200
Well, and a lot of other books, right, that I think have really gone off course, you know.
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:50.319
I'd say if we graft his uh thinking over time.
00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:59.519
But, you know, um supremely talented, smart individual uh who had um with a sorted past, Google it.
00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:00.559
No, I'm just kidding.
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:05.279
Um, but I do think that, right, like it's fine to be critical of the Democratic project.
00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:07.759
The Democratic Project has never once happened.
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:10.240
We have never once gotten to try it out.
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:16.559
Yeah, all of this for the last decades and decades and decades has been like taking a little bite, getting a little piece through.
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:32.480
We if we ran the democratic platform, we got it installed in place, we passed those legislations, we had those leaders, whoever they are, because it doesn't matter because we're really not a cult of personality party, and we let 10 years go by, America would be back on track, I think.
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:41.119
You let 20 years go by of investing in our social systems, in our education system, like we were talking about earlier, how big a problem that is.
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:50.400
All of that stuff, creating opportunities for folks instead of pitting Americans against each other, which is absolutely what the agenda has been on the right for so long.
00:24:50.559 --> 00:24:52.240
I mean, that's powerful.
00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:54.960
By the way, progress is good for the economy.
00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:59.200
Not that everything comes down to the economy, but you know, um, yeah.
00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:10.240
But but I mean, it is important, but that kicker, whatever, you know, um, or whatever thing, like women telling these women graduating, like, oh, like spoiler alert, you should have just gotten married and popped out four kids.
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.960
Um, woman's place is is in the kitchen or whatever.
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:14.720
What like crazy?
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:20.240
I just but like you know, you look at and his jersey is the number one selling jersey among women right now.
00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:21.920
Yikes, yeah, right?
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:22.480
Yikes.
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:23.599
Oh, Katie Britt.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:29.920
Um, but you know, like for the um but you go look at a graph, it's very simple.
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:32.799
Women enter the workforce, our GDP skyrocket.
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.480
The more quality we have, our GDP squat skyrockets, right?
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:42.000
The more freedom we have in this country, good for GDP, good for the economy, good for opportunity, all of it.
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:56.720
And so I think like the idea that we are currently, for example, fighting the Republicans about Putin being an enemy, about China being an enemy where their leader, Trump, is siding with China on these critical national security issues.
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:01.119
I mean, that gets in the way of the American dream inordinately.
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:02.319
So we never talk about that.
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:04.720
But is the American dream still alive?
00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:21.519
Well, I think one version of it is the version I articulated that's not, you know, sort of this idea that if you go to college and you spend a quarter of a million dollars and then you work your bones out for the next 30 years, you're gonna have all these great opportunities and your kids will have all these great opportunities.
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:23.279
No, that model is absolutely broken.
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:25.440
Who knows if it was ever really true?
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:31.440
Um, but I think there is a version of the American dream, which is just that people want opportunity.
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:35.279
They want meaningful lives, they want to count, and everybody does count.
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:48.559
But, you know, I think that getting folks those resources and having the time to do it without constantly moving forward, moving backwards, moving forward, moving backwards, being on the brink of a civil war, being on the brink of a world war three.
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:50.720
Like those things get in the way.
00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:54.799
Yeah, I mean that that manic shift, the pendulum swing.
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:56.480
Like, listen, I'm black.
00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:58.640
I that's perhaps my my blood pressure.
00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:00.319
We already got high blood pressure.
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:02.799
Like, we can't can't be messing around with that.
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:06.160
Hey, uh, where can people find you on social media?
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:07.119
Yeah, thank you.
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:12.880
I'm Kyvon Troff, K-A-I-V-A-N, S-H-R-O-F-F, everywhere.
00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:15.920
Instagram, Twitter, threads, tick tock.
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:16.640
Perfect.
00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:17.440
Follow me.
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:19.839
Hey, thank you so much for joining the show.
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:20.880
I really appreciate it.
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:25.039
Uh, promise us that you're gonna come back as we get closer to the election so we can do some more predictions.
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:26.319
I'm so glad you're doing this.
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.279
This is like a great conversation, one of the better ones I've had in a long time.
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:29.599
Thanks.
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:30.400
We're trying to open it up.
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:35.839
We want to have some long foreign conversations and really like me back since I won't be uh getting books on news issues.
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:36.240
Cool.
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:37.920
We'll make your contributor over here.
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:40.000
Hey, thanks very good.
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:41.519
Yeah, look forward to it coming out.
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:42.880
Have a good one.
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:46.160
Thanks for being with me today.
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:47.839
Share this episode with others.
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:53.599
Like and review it, and please keep learning all you can so that you can make an informed voting decision this year.
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:56.000
Come back next week for more truth in politics.
00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:59.519
I'm Michael Starr Hopkins, and this is It Matters.
00:00:03.839 --> 00:00:10.480
This is it matters, a show that digs beneath the surface of our political landscape, pop culture, and the 2024 election.
00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:12.720
I'm your host, Michael Starr-Hopkins.
00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:16.239
I'm a born-bred Washingtonian who knows the ins and outs of DC.
00:00:16.559 --> 00:00:20.239
I've work with political heavyweights from presidents to governors and members to Congress.
00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:25.519
I also write for and appear on The Hill, the Daily Beast, MSNBC, and News Station.
00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:31.039
Now I'm bringing you prominent politicians and cultural artists and non-filter truth.
00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:37.359
So buckle up and join me as we navigate this crazy world together and look at the situations that matter the most.
00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:38.799
This is it matters.
00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:40.159
Let's dive in.
00:00:41.200 --> 00:00:42.719
And welcome to the show.
00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:44.399
We've got Kyvon Stroff.
00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:47.119
How are you, and good, good to join you.
00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:49.840
Hey, thanks so much for uh for joining the show.
00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:55.439
I wanted to have you on to talk about the 2024 election uh and Democrats.
00:00:55.600 --> 00:01:01.359
Uh you're a political consultant, you kind of move around DC and the political world.
00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:04.000
Um talk to me about No we all.
00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:06.959
At least we try to.
00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:12.640
Um talk to me about the 2024 election uh and why the stakes are so high.
00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:14.400
Sure.
00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:22.719
Well, I think it can sound sort of tepid to describe, you know, the realities that I think would happen in 2024.
00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:34.640
But Trump, just as he did in 2016, and I was on the Clinton campaign, has really narrated exactly what he and his crew will do if they win the White House again through Project 2025 and so many other things.
00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:47.359
Obviously, that specific example is a focus on really installing an authoritarian government at the federal level, firing, you know, neutral public servants, installing loyalists.
00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:56.159
The list really goes on there of the level of retribution Trump sort of wants to get against journalists and political dissenters and all that stuff.
00:01:56.319 --> 00:02:01.920
Um, but I think even just looking to the people that he surrounds himself with, we've seen how awful these people are.
00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:10.719
And I mean, you know, the crew, it's funny to watch the Cohen trials kind of and see um, you know, the testimony from folks like him, but even Hope Hicks.
00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:19.520
Like, remember reading about Hope Hicks every day and who she was sleeping with and the various abusers and awful people that were running our country, and who would want that again?
00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:23.759
Who are some of the worst people that Trump surrounds himself with?
00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:34.879
Well, I think that he always has, it seems like, some long-term, and I think, you know, it's worth pointing out, these people did not just come up with Trump.
00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:38.080
They've been in the Republican sort of orbit for decades.
00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:56.879
He has these legal advisors who sort of come up with these awful plans, whether it's from the Heritage Foundation or it's folks like Josh Hawley or Elise Stefanak, who, you know, comes up with like the most ridiculous talking point and parrots it over and over again and calls the Jan 6 rioters um hostages.
00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:04.080
You know, he's looking for those folks that can sort of sell this BS to people on a mass scale, and he seems to have an endless supply of them.
00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:18.639
You've got the Stephen Millers of the world who are really leading not just his uh immigration plan to round up uh undocumented uh individuals, but also uh implement Project 2025 that you've talked about.
00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:23.520
Uh, what is it about the Stephen Millers of the world that make them so dangerous?
00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:30.560
Yeah, I mean, they seem driven not by any sort of rationality, but just pure bigotry and hate.
00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:50.240
And I mean, you look at the guy, and I don't think most people want to swap places with him, but even just looking at a guy, um, oh, his name, John McKenty, is another, you know, sort of guy in Trump's orbit, and he's just gone viral for, you know, saying he likes to give homeless people fake$5 bills so that when they spend the money, they get arrested.
00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:53.120
I mean, he says he's joking now that he's gotten all this backlash.
00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:53.360
Yeah.
00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:58.000
But like what kind of sick person even jokes about something like that?
00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:03.759
I mean, these are disturbed people, they are not, you know, particularly qualified or successful people in their own right.
00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:17.519
They've really been given an sort of outsized amount of influence simply because they're willing to be that awful on Trump's behalf and be those yes men who keep coming to his defense and coming up with the next awful crazy idea.
00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:22.240
It does seem like there's like a uh meanness that's baked in.
00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:25.519
Is that part of where Republicans are now?
00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:29.519
Or is that kind of where Republicans have always been?
00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:32.000
Yeah, you know, I think it's interesting to watch.
00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:47.600
There's certainly a more in-your-face level of vitriol, but at the end of the day, if you look at what the Republican agenda economically, socially has been for decades and decades and decades, it is mean and it is nasty, and it's not good for the country, and we've seen that again and again and again.
00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:54.399
So, sure, do I I think both to win and just out of we all have to live together in this country?
00:04:54.639 --> 00:04:57.519
Am I more open to folks like George Conway who want to come over?
00:04:57.759 --> 00:04:58.800
Sure, come on over.
00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:00.639
But let's be clear what they stood for.
00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:02.800
Let's be clear that he was celebrating when Roe v.
00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:03.759
Wade was overturned.
00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:06.160
I mean, we've we've known exactly who these people are.
00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:12.319
And by the way, if you're gonna do it, at least be like George Conway and write a million-dollar check to the Biden campaign, you know.
00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:15.920
So, um, so no, I don't think there's been much difference.
00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:23.600
What's been sort of clear here is forcing people to and allowing people to openly admit and accept that this is what they want to see more of.
00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:28.800
Why haven't Democrats been more successful in their messaging around this?
00:05:28.959 --> 00:05:37.839
I mean, you've seen victories in 2020 uh and the midterms in 2022, but it doesn't feel like the message itself is resonating.
00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:38.480
Right.
00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:49.600
I mean, it's kind of an interesting dynamic, and I'm sure you've encountered this too, where you know, Democrats did win in 2020, they did win in 2022, they did win in 2023, despite all the polls saying, you know, they're doom and gloom.
00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:58.560
And yet there is sort of, I at least as a Democratic commentator, I always feel like I'm, you know, on defense defending the platform position, the campaigning.
00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:02.160
I think, first of all, just think of a school yard yard bully.
00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:04.800
It's so easy to call somebody names and spread hate.
00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:10.160
To lead with policy that's going to deliver outcomes for people and explain that is a much harder task.
00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:14.319
So we're not really competing on the same ground, frankly.
00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:30.720
Now, I do think we have to be smarter about the way we engage and specifically communicate, because that means there isn't zero room for that sort of more quick touch, viral, get out this bad talking point, point out Trump glitched, point out Trump looks crazy, whatever it is.
00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:35.120
I mean, that has an effect on people, and people do really vote on that stuff, whether we like it or not.
00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:42.480
Um, so you know, should it come down to who would you rather have a beer with, like we've said for decades and decades?
00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:44.959
Probably not, but you know, there is a little piece of that.
00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:47.600
So, I mean, I think Joe Biden's decent at that.
00:06:48.000 --> 00:07:14.480
I had Sean Sweiser on a couple weeks ago, and uh he talked about how he thought, you know, similarly, that the media was built against Republicans, um, and that kind of the justification for um the Fox News of the world is that there has been so much um liberal bias amongst Hollywood, amongst late night TV.
00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:16.319
Um, what do you say to that?
00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:18.079
Yeah, I mean, I think it's interesting.
00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:29.519
You know, one thing that jumps out to me is sort of Republicans try to delusionally smear the left as anti-Semitic, and certainly we should call out there has been anti-Semitism on both sides, but it is on both sides.
00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:47.120
And I think if you want to look and compare, you know, some college students maybe saying things they should have investigated further or been more responsible about, versus Sean Spicer, who, when he was press secretary in his very first year, got up and spewed Holocaust denialism from the White House press secretary podium.
00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:49.120
I mean, I think that's much more disgraceful.
00:07:49.360 --> 00:07:55.759
Of course, we have a media ecosystem that treats those as the same, or maybe that this random college student is worse doing it.
00:07:55.839 --> 00:07:57.759
You know, so I think that is a dynamic.
00:07:58.000 --> 00:08:00.800
Also, I mean, it's easy to sort of frame things that way.
00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:07.279
And I think if you don't really try to think about something critically, it sounds true that, oh, well, they were harsh on Trump.
00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:08.399
Now they're harsh on Biden.
00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:12.480
They were harsh on Trump and Sean Spicer and all those folks because they were lying.
00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:17.759
And that's actually a valuable role for the free press to play, to fact-check, to make sure the truth is out there.
00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:37.440
There is a belief uh among a big portion of the country that Democrats are out of touch with mainstream America, uh, that our belief system is super left, it's too super progressive, that the beliefs of AOC, who I like and have a lot of respect for, represent the belief of the whole party.
00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:55.840
Like, how can you how do we on one hand have AOC and uh Congresswoman uh Otmar and also have Joe Manchin and uh Christian cinema, who well, I think that's kind of part of this conversation we're having about media, right?
00:08:55.919 --> 00:09:00.240
Because if you look at the facts, the party is very much not the party of AOC.
00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:11.519
In fact, if you actually look at the reality, the Republican Party is far more the party of Marjorie Taylor Green, and I think it's almost an insult to compare the two because AOC is actually substantive, whether or not you agree with her.
00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:17.679
But the AOC, the Ilhan Omar, the squad, so-called, that's four people.
00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:20.960
That's five people out of the entire Democratic caucus.
00:09:21.120 --> 00:09:29.759
So the idea, again, it it is an information war that Democrats are losing, and I think institutional media certainly has a role to play there.
00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:35.120
For Jamie Dimon to say that Trump was right about China, for example, that is ahistorical.
00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:36.399
There's no support for it.
00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:39.039
If anything, Trump was China's stooch.
00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:45.919
He got millions of dollars from China, his daughter got those patents from China, he let China off the hook, now he's taking China's side on TikTok.
00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:57.759
But the reality is, I bet if you ask most people who's tougher on China, despite Joe Biden just say, you know, announcing that new list of tariffs, despite him cracking down on TikTok, all of it, the perception is off.
00:09:57.840 --> 00:09:59.840
And sure, Democrats have a role to play.
00:09:59.919 --> 00:10:04.559
It's not, you know, frankly, it's their they care the most about this.
00:10:04.639 --> 00:10:06.480
It's them who will lose or win, right?
00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:13.440
But there are sort of supposed to be these unbiased refs that are totally in the tank and really have a different agenda, I think.
00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:18.000
What do you think the role of money of politics uh is ultimately gonna play?
00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:30.240
Whether it's Democrats or Republicans, we can both look at the fact that donors are playing such an outsized role in the messaging and the policies in our party.
00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:32.320
Like, what what do we do about it?
00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:32.799
Yeah.
00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:47.600
Well, I do think Democrats particularly have a problem with this because the message, it's nothing new, but it's certainly something that I think young voters in particular find incredibly distasteful and disheartening and makes them want to not engage at all.
00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:50.480
And I think Israel and Palestine right now is a perfect example.
00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:55.600
So I was just gonna say, you know, my own views aside on the issue, because it's less relevant to the conversation.
00:10:55.759 --> 00:11:06.159
You know, look at what's happening with the funding of opponents, primary opponents, to pro-Palestine, if you want to call them that, congressmen folks like Jamal Bowman, who certainly has other views.
00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:09.120
Yeah, I was gonna say in the background, absolutely.
00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:18.080
So I don't want to pretend that's not the case, but to I think a lot of young folks, they look at that situation and they say, well, this is all a money-driven thing.
00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:26.720
And there's a lot of problematic sort of, I think, invective built up in that, but like it comes across a certain way to that demographic.
00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:30.960
Again, it's the only, and frankly, I don't think Republicans have a shot in hell at that demographic.
00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:38.159
So it really ends up being Democrats' problem because they want to keep those people on board and engaged for this election in the future, because that's how we win.
00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:45.679
Yeah, it feels like this election is gonna be a get out the vote uh turnout election, not a policy-based election.
00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:48.399
Like people know at the end of the day who they're voting for.
00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:50.720
We've we've had this runway before.
00:11:51.440 --> 00:12:03.200
Well, I think it's honestly it's not to fall in love with the candidate here, it's to pick who's going to be best to deliver the outcomes that are gonna be best for you and your community and the future of our country.
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:04.559
So get over it.
00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:06.320
Like to me, that's a fine message.
00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:12.799
Frankly, I think it's a message that makes a lot of people feel sane after years and years and years of being gaslit about all these things.
00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:14.879
You know, you said this won't be an election about policy.
00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:28.399
I think you're probably right, but you know, that whether it's 5% or 10% or 15% that it is about policy, we better make sure that those folks have the facts on this administration versus what they lived through, you know, under Trump.
00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:31.200
I think we should be making political hay of all of it.
00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:46.240
And in fact, I look at somebody like Sheldon Whitehouse, who I think is great at this and is talking about, you know, Trump recently sort of gave a comment um that he wants to do this quid pro quo with oil executives and give him a billion dollars, he'll overturn all the climate regulations, blah, blah, blah.
00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:47.360
And he said this openly.
00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:48.639
He said this openly.
00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:49.840
Right, of course, of course.
00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:51.919
That is how Trump does it.
00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:57.679
If he says it openly, it somehow makes it less corrupt and less illegal.
00:12:58.639 --> 00:12:59.440
No, absolutely.
00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:02.159
And what Sheldon Whitehouse says, we're gonna look into this probably.
00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:03.679
We're probably gonna investigate that.
00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:04.399
Absolutely.
00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:07.840
I mean, you have Republicans investigating made-up scandals.
00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:09.519
Let's investigate some real shit here.
00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:10.159
Like, right?
00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:11.120
I mean, I don't know.
00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:15.360
What do we do with all of the Republicans?
00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:17.039
And you're gonna stop there.
00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:29.759
At some point, Trump's gonna be gone, and there are gonna be tens of millions of Republicans who supported him who are gonna need to take that support somewhere else.
00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:37.039
There are, even though if there's very few, there are Trump supporters who voted for Obama and then voted for Trump.
00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:40.480
For the life of me, I don't understand who they are, how it happened.
00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:43.759
I know some, and I just it blows my mind.
00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:46.879
How did Democrats get some of those Trump voters back?
00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:53.679
I know that's the conversation that we always have around election season, but like, yeah, we have to for the sake of the country.
00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:56.159
Because we're for damn sure not going over there.
00:13:56.559 --> 00:13:58.720
I'd split those folks into two groups.
00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:18.240
I think that there's certainly a group, um, people of color, Hispanic communities that have been viciously targeted, specifically Hispanic communities with disinformation on WhatsApp, and it's a very top-down effort to, you know, get them to have not even the basic facts about the reality of the country today.
00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:20.879
They're often targeted in, you know, Spanish language.
00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:23.360
So it's hard for others to just quickly fact check.
00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:25.120
They're on local trusted channels.
00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:30.399
That's a big problem, and I think the Democrats are investing there, and that's again gumps back to the money issue.
00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:34.960
But then I think there's a lot of folks like the folks that Nicole Shanahan and RFK Jr.
00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:40.480
are playing for, the bored, wealthy, over-educated folks who want to shake it up and they love disruption.
00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:43.279
They'll say all the time, you're gonna burn selfish people, burn it all.
00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:48.320
Then there's selfish people, they don't care, they're bored out of their mind, they're gonna be fine, whoever the president is.
00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:56.240
And I don't think we should listen to them, and I certainly don't think we should be burning cash trying to get their vote because they're like such like pick me, you know.
00:14:56.320 --> 00:14:58.240
Like, I don't know, it's like that, like Gen Z.
00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:01.600
You know, they want attention, they really want attention.
00:15:01.759 --> 00:15:03.679
And to me, it's online too, right?
00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:05.679
There's always these people tell me why I should vote for Biden.
00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:11.200
It's like, I'm not gonna tell you why I should vote for Biden, like at some point, people should do their own homework, like right.
00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:12.639
Of course, it's like it's not on me.
00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:28.480
Like, I'm on here to share the good messages, the good works of the Democratic Party, connect with folks I think that are making meaningful, making a meaningful difference, you know, like it has nothing to do with like some troll in my comments.
00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:35.759
So I find it challenging to engage those people, especially a lot of those folks are highly educated, privileged individuals.
00:15:35.919 --> 00:15:50.399
So, you know, I don't to me, if there's a voter that sat out the 2016 election, which there were a hundred million Americans that did not vote, that's somebody worth fighting to get information to, to get engaged, to understand how we can bring them on board.
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:55.440
Somebody who has all the information and wants to have a five-hour conversation every day about this.
00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:56.240
Like, I don't know.
00:15:57.519 --> 00:15:59.519
How did you get into doing TV commentary?
00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:01.840
I always think it's interesting to hear people's stories.
00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:02.480
Yeah.
00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:07.600
Yeah, actually, so I just always so I was on I did digital stuff for Hillary.
00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:09.919
Kind of before that, I'd done some social media stuff.
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:15.519
I graduated from Brown in 2015, and like everyone on earth was a huge birdie supporter.
00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:19.600
So like my Facebook feed, everything was just a flood of like memes.
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:23.360
And like this was like back when like trending hashtags were a thing and blah, blah, blah.
00:16:23.519 --> 00:16:34.799
So I realized like there was this huge gap for all these like 40 to 60-year-old, like, probably on average women that loved Hillary Clinton, but they weren't, you know, like making memes on their phone, they weren't jumping on the debates to create hashtags.
00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:40.480
I just started doing that and I built like a decent following, then was on the campaign and kind of continued from there to grow.
00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:50.240
And then when I was in grad school in Boston, I got asked to be on uh the local TV station from that, like a couple of times to comment on like Elizabeth Warren and the primaries and all that stuff.
00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:51.279
Uh and I loved it.
00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:57.600
So when I moved to New York, I was like, all right, well, all the studios are here, everything's here, and I'm in DC enough too.
00:16:57.679 --> 00:16:59.519
So so let me try it.
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:02.960
And obviously, it's been uh no shortage of stuff to talk about since.
00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:05.359
Uh what's been your favorite part about doing it?
00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:19.759
You know, I really like actually this long form type stuff so much better because like, you know, to go and like say a hit for like some random topic of the day, like peek talking to other people with a different lens, similar goal, good intentions.
00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:22.400
And you know, I did like even like Steve Schmidt's podcast, I did.
00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:29.440
It's like, yeah, you know, like look, like this is a guy I probably would never have imagined that I would agree with on, but uh so much.
00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:30.880
But you know, we have a shared goal here.
00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:32.319
It's such an important shared goal.
00:17:32.400 --> 00:17:38.960
It makes you feel better in a certain way about the foundation of the country, if we can say yeah, it's interesting.
00:17:39.039 --> 00:18:02.000
When you go sit in the green rooms at the different studios, it actually can be like one of the rare instances of when I think you do have a little bit of faith restored in our process, because people who publicly will be at each other's throat will go into the green room and have a conversation and like seem to find some common ground until they get back out on set.
00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:04.480
Yeah, you know, it's funny.
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.119
I will say you asked me the best part, that is the best part.
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:12.960
The hardest part for me is probably that I don't know if it's an age thing, if it's like a cynicism thing.
00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:22.799
To me, it's like I don't want to go sit next to breathe the same air as pretend to be BFFs with some person who's like then gonna defend Trump for being a white nationalist.
00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:27.440
So, like, of course, it's totally reasonable for Ann Culture to say that she never vote for an Indian.
00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:30.240
It's like, well, okay, you literally don't see me as a person.
00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:32.799
Like, I'm not gonna smile at you unless it's on camera.
00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:33.920
No, I'm just kidding.
00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:37.039
My favorite, honestly, my absolute favorite.
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:41.359
I loved Allison Camarado when she had her show on Sienna tonight.
00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:46.319
I thought she was incredibly talented, just like a force of nature to watch.
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:51.920
Like no one else was able to be so engaged with each of the she had a four-guest panel when I was doing it.
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:58.480
She knew the facts about them, she'd be charming, she'd bring stuff up, and she'd get to, you know, she'd sort of cut through the nonsense.
00:18:58.559 --> 00:18:59.599
So I really appreciate it.
00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:01.200
Yeah, I think there are a lot of great hosts.
00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:03.519
I actually do think Blake's great.
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:04.880
Later we're gonna have to.
00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:08.319
So I'll give him uh a pass.
00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.720
We'll have to all sit down someday to have dinner and all hang out.
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:16.640
I think Brianna at CNN is great.
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:18.880
I think Laura Coates is great.
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:21.519
Uh, I think Caitlin Collins is great.
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.960
I think there's like a really great I like Shane McConnell.
00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:26.240
Yeah, Shane's Shane's great.
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:33.920
I did when I was uh I started out at Fox and Fox News as kind of like their black Democrat back in the day.
00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:39.279
Uh and like Shane and Blake and a bunch of like trying to think who else.
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:48.880
Uh Ellison Barber, um, who's now at NBC Unionist now, uh I like came up with a lot of those people and trying to think who else.
00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:51.599
A lot of the producers make the same cycle too.
00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:56.000
Like people who will be at Fox one day will be at CNN and MSNBC.
00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:57.519
Yeah, it's like oh, you know who I love?
00:19:57.599 --> 00:19:58.799
I love a lot of the scripts, people.
00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:01.759
I think there's yeah, Chris Stewart's great.
00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:14.079
I like I have been lucky in that, or I guess it's a it's sort of a mixed bag, but I always tell people like my goal because I was talking to people early on, and they're like, oh well, why don't you reach out to Jessica Charlov?
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:16.240
She's so great, and why don't you go on Fox more and blah blah blah.
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:21.119
And it took a long time to actually go on Fox, and now that I've been doing it a long time, I I do because I feel more comfortable.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:24.319
But you know, my goal is not to be on TV long term.
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:29.759
You know, I'm I'm 30 now and I'm excited that I was able to do it and will do it as much as I can.
00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:31.839
And I love like it's fun for me.
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:45.839
But you know, I'm not out here to like say a bunch of crazy crap and go viral for it and get the next booking, or you know, play the Democrat who's gonna say some crazy thing and you have the Republican who's saying some equally crazy thing.
00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:50.160
It's like, I'm here to say what I think, share my experience, talk about my background.
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:51.920
If that's boring, it's boring.
00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:54.480
If it's you know too aggressive, it's too aggressive.
00:20:54.640 --> 00:21:04.559
It's like I think it's important if like to speak truth to power and all in you know, if when you're disagreeing, like disagree without being disagreeable most of the time.
00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:06.559
I it is interesting.
00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:16.640
Every show kind of has its own unique kind of character to it and its own unique uh group of cast members.
00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:21.039
I am it's almost like like it's contributors, the people who are regulars and stuff like that.
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:32.319
What's it been like as you kind of make your rounds, and what advice do you give to people who maybe one a day want to be a contributor or want to get involved with doing on air work?
00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.720
It's such like a uh insider's group.
00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:37.920
People never people never really tell people how to do it.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:38.799
Yeah, right.
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:39.680
No, it's so true.
00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:48.000
You know, I will say some of the best advice I've gotten is from a you know older woman Republican mentor of mine who has just told me everything.
00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:52.640
And she said to me right away Nobody in your sandbox is gonna help you.
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:58.160
And what she meant by that is not one Democrat is ever gonna tell you one thing about getting on TV.
00:21:58.319 --> 00:21:59.599
And it's so true, you know.
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:09.200
No matter how many retweets or whatever we've done for each other or blah blah blah blah blah, there's not been one Democrat that has offered a tip, even by the way, is it Nan Hayworth?
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:10.720
No.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:12.559
I love Nan.
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:13.759
Nance Wilde.
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:14.559
She's not a Democrat.
00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:17.920
It's like, no, no, no, no.
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:18.160
No.
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:19.200
No, no, no.
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:19.680
She is nice.
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:20.400
She did give me advice.
00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:21.759
She told me to read a book by Hayek.
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:23.039
She actually is from my same town.
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:24.640
I was on the hill with her.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:24.960
Okay.
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:32.880
Um, the good advice that I got, which was not advice I wanted to hear at the time, because I was like, well, why don't you just sign me exclusively to one network?
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:38.160
You know, is like doing the rounds, going across networks, and seeing where you really do have a fit and a culture fit.
00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:41.119
And like obviously we're joking about, you know, who we like and don't like.
00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:44.640
I mean, not really, I just told you who I don't well, you're saving yourself.
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:51.920
But I like to ask this question uh in closing what what's the American dream?
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:57.279
And where do you see it the day after the election?
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:00.240
Ooh, the day after the election is rough.
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:13.200
Um I I think the American dream is that sort of hokey definition that if you work hard and play by the rules, you should get to do better than the generation before you.
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:15.279
And you know, it doesn't have to be bound that way.
00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:19.279
It's not that like one generation has to have it terrible, so the next can have it better and better.
00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:23.519
There should be ample opportunity in the richest country in the world for everyone.
00:23:23.599 --> 00:23:28.640
And we should invest in our people and our systems and our institutions to make that the case.
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:35.920
And one of the things I hate about the criticism of Democrats and Cornell West was a professor of mine, and I think this is the main flaw in what he said.
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:43.920
Author of Zar Ace Matters, uh, one of, I think, one of the most important books written in a long time, and now not the same person that he was then.
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.200
Well, and a lot of other books, right, that I think have really gone off course, you know.
00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:50.319
I'd say if we graft his uh thinking over time.
00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:59.519
But, you know, um supremely talented, smart individual uh who had um with a sorted past, Google it.
00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:00.559
No, I'm just kidding.
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:05.279
Um, but I do think that, right, like it's fine to be critical of the Democratic project.
00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:07.759
The Democratic Project has never once happened.
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:10.240
We have never once gotten to try it out.
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:16.559
Yeah, all of this for the last decades and decades and decades has been like taking a little bite, getting a little piece through.
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:32.480
We if we ran the democratic platform, we got it installed in place, we passed those legislations, we had those leaders, whoever they are, because it doesn't matter because we're really not a cult of personality party, and we let 10 years go by, America would be back on track, I think.
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:41.119
You let 20 years go by of investing in our social systems, in our education system, like we were talking about earlier, how big a problem that is.
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:50.400
All of that stuff, creating opportunities for folks instead of pitting Americans against each other, which is absolutely what the agenda has been on the right for so long.
00:24:50.559 --> 00:24:52.240
I mean, that's powerful.
00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:54.960
By the way, progress is good for the economy.
00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:59.200
Not that everything comes down to the economy, but you know, um, yeah.
00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:10.240
But but I mean, it is important, but that kicker, whatever, you know, um, or whatever thing, like women telling these women graduating, like, oh, like spoiler alert, you should have just gotten married and popped out four kids.
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:12.960
Um, woman's place is is in the kitchen or whatever.
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:14.720
What like crazy?
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:20.240
I just but like you know, you look at and his jersey is the number one selling jersey among women right now.
00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:21.920
Yikes, yeah, right?
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:22.480
Yikes.
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:23.599
Oh, Katie Britt.
00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:29.920
Um, but you know, like for the um but you go look at a graph, it's very simple.
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:32.799
Women enter the workforce, our GDP skyrocket.
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.480
The more quality we have, our GDP squat skyrockets, right?
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:42.000
The more freedom we have in this country, good for GDP, good for the economy, good for opportunity, all of it.
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:56.720
And so I think like the idea that we are currently, for example, fighting the Republicans about Putin being an enemy, about China being an enemy where their leader, Trump, is siding with China on these critical national security issues.
00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:01.119
I mean, that gets in the way of the American dream inordinately.
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:02.319
So we never talk about that.
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:04.720
But is the American dream still alive?
00:26:05.119 --> 00:26:21.519
Well, I think one version of it is the version I articulated that's not, you know, sort of this idea that if you go to college and you spend a quarter of a million dollars and then you work your bones out for the next 30 years, you're gonna have all these great opportunities and your kids will have all these great opportunities.
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:23.279
No, that model is absolutely broken.
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:25.440
Who knows if it was ever really true?
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:31.440
Um, but I think there is a version of the American dream, which is just that people want opportunity.
00:26:31.519 --> 00:26:35.279
They want meaningful lives, they want to count, and everybody does count.
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:48.559
But, you know, I think that getting folks those resources and having the time to do it without constantly moving forward, moving backwards, moving forward, moving backwards, being on the brink of a civil war, being on the brink of a world war three.
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:50.720
Like those things get in the way.
00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:54.799
Yeah, I mean that that manic shift, the pendulum swing.
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:56.480
Like, listen, I'm black.
00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:58.640
I that's perhaps my my blood pressure.
00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:00.319
We already got high blood pressure.
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:02.799
Like, we can't can't be messing around with that.
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:06.160
Hey, uh, where can people find you on social media?
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:07.119
Yeah, thank you.
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:12.880
I'm Kyvon Troff, K-A-I-V-A-N, S-H-R-O-F-F, everywhere.
00:27:13.119 --> 00:27:15.920
Instagram, Twitter, threads, tick tock.
00:27:16.319 --> 00:27:16.640
Perfect.
00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:17.440
Follow me.
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:19.839
Hey, thank you so much for joining the show.
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:20.880
I really appreciate it.
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:25.039
Uh, promise us that you're gonna come back as we get closer to the election so we can do some more predictions.
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:26.319
I'm so glad you're doing this.
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.279
This is like a great conversation, one of the better ones I've had in a long time.
00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:29.599
Thanks.
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:30.400
We're trying to open it up.
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:35.839
We want to have some long foreign conversations and really like me back since I won't be uh getting books on news issues.
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:36.240
Cool.
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:37.920
We'll make your contributor over here.
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:40.000
Hey, thanks very good.
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:41.519
Yeah, look forward to it coming out.
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:42.880
Have a good one.
00:27:44.720 --> 00:27:46.160
Thanks for being with me today.
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:47.839
Share this episode with others.
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:53.599
Like and review it, and please keep learning all you can so that you can make an informed voting decision this year.
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:56.000
Come back next week for more truth in politics.
00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:59.519
I'm Michael Starr Hopkins, and this is It Matters.
