It’s Them, Not You: Toxic Parents, Childhood Trauma, No Contact & Breaking the Cycle

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You're listening to the Beyond Mommy Darius podcast, where we talk about growing up with narcissistic moms, how it shapes your nervous system, your relationships, and your sense of self, and how to heal without shame.
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I'm your host, Nalani Pearl Hernandez.
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This episode is sponsored by the Happy Cannabis, body products designed to help you on your healing journey by supporting your nervous system with every application.
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Today on Beyond Mommy Dearest, I'm joined by author Mr.
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Josh Connolly, who wrote the book It's Them, Not You, for a candid conversation about childhood trauma, toxic family systems, addiction, boundaries, parenting, masculinity, and healing.
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Content warning.
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This episode includes discussion of childhood abuse, domestic violence, addiction, suicide, family trauma, and estrangement.
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Please take care of yourself while listening.
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If you are in the U.S.
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and experiencing a mental health crisis or need immediate emotional support, call or text 988 to reach the suicide and crisis lifeline.
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If you are outside the U.S., please contact your country's local crisis hotline or emergency services for immediate support.
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Thank you so much, Josh, for being here this morning.
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Well, this morning in the US.
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So it's 7 a.m.
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here and it's, I think, about 3 p.m.
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in the UK.
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It's 3 p.m.
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here, yeah.
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Well, thank you so much for being here.
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I appreciate it.
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Um, we were just chatting really briefly uh about how I appreciate all the work that Josh does, especially being a male in this space.
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So I'm really excited to be able to talk to him.
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And he, along with, I think that Dr.
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Romani was uh probably a few of the first people that I saw on Instagram that were doing conversations about narcissism way back when, when I was first looking, it took me a while to warm up to do the podcast.
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And one of the things that you're really open about is, you know, going through a lot of this turmoil and reaching a place around the age of 24.
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And um, what do you think kind of finally made you realize that there was some deeper, something deeper that needed to change in your life?
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Yeah.
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Um, firstly, thank you for having me on.
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Um yeah, I think like I stopped drinking when I was 24.
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So I had like a real problem with alcohol, mainly alcohol, drugs as well, but mainly alcohol.
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Um, and I think that I thought that if I stopped drinking, I stopped using alcohol.
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I think I thought that my life would get measurably better and that my problems just lied in the fact that I drank alcohol.
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But very, very quickly after stopping drinking alcohol, I actually found that the emotional struggle became even more intense.
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Uh, and I was sort of just rather than getting rid of alcohol and getting rid of the problem, I sort of got rid of alcohol and was left with the problem.
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But I didn't know what that problem was, I just knew it was a pain.
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And um, I actually planned to not be here when I was like nine months sober, and I was very lucky that I had an experience with my children, and and it was from that experience that sort of changed everything.
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Um, and I sort of realized that you know, what was killing me really was coming from inside of me.
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I realized that this wasn't about trying to find an external fix, this wasn't about um anything else, really, other than what was coming from inside of me.
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And then so the next that's been sort of 14 years since that moment.
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Um I've been on a journey of sort of looking within and trying to find my truth, the truth, you know.
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Um yeah, and that's what the journey's been, really.
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You know, it's interesting what kids uh do to change your life, you know.
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That might not be for some people, which is totally fine.
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Uh, and I often say about my daughter who is 31 now, that she really gave me that reason to live.
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That even through all the turmoil and for the first couple months that I lived with her when my daughter was younger, it was, you know, waking up and seeing, seeing that rust, like that smiling face.
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And she was so chunky and so chubby.
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I loved her cheeks.
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And it was just she's so innocent.
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And knowing that I had to do something different, that whatever was going on right then wasn't it.
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So I'm glad that you saw that and you were able to, you know, decide what was best.
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And you know, really looking back now, do you think that your struggles that were connected child to your childhood wounds um long before you were conscious, before you consciously understood that, were you like, okay, it's something back here, it's not something here.
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Yeah, definitely.
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Uh, I think that was by the way, I've was a little bit stunned that you have a 31-year-old.
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Thank you.
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31 years old.
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Thank you.
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Were you young when you had children?
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You know, I um I was just out of high school, so I'm turning 50 this year, but um, you know, we've made we've done it together, and then my husband and I got together about 12 years ago, and he saved my life.
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It was that change of you know, understanding another adult understanding.
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So so I was young, but not that young, but I was young, yeah, yeah.
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No, I hear you.
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I mean, the main reason I sort of bring it up is because my first daughter was born when I was 18 as well.
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So okay, yeah.
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Yeah, so I have a 20-year-old daughter.
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Okay.
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Um, so so yeah, I just thought it was like a a sort of similar experience.
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But but but to your question in terms of like, you know, looking back, I I did, I I think I realized very, very quickly that um, you know, when I took away the alcohol and I was just I sort of forced to sit with it because I don't for 14 years now I've never taken anything mind-altering apart from caffeine, right?
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Right.
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And so that kind of forces you to have to look at stuff.
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And and I think that when you when you sit with it and look at it long enough, um, you know, it starts to be not obvious, but it starts, it does become much clearer, okay, that this is coming from past experiences, as you say.
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Um and I and I also think that, you know, to your point about looking at your children and seeing, you know, you talked about your daughter's face and the impact that that had on you to want to make change.
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Um my experience was the same, right?
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And I think it's really important to like highlight that, you know, for me, my experience has been that most of the good work that I've done on myself has actually been, at least in the beginning, motivated by my children, right?
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So when I think about why I got sober, people say you have to get sober for yourself.
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I I don't know if that's true.
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I got sober for my kids.
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That's the truth.
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Somewhere somewhere in getting sober for my kids, I I I think I discovered myself, and and then and then and then you know, as much as I can, I do it for myself too.
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But I think it's important to highlight that because so often, you know, I get a lot of sort of kickback online from people because of the parental stuff that I talk about.
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And one of the main kickbacks I get is like, wait till you have children, or like, you know, um, wait till you have children of you, wait till your children grow up.
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And I'm like, I've got children, and actually having children makes it even more unfathomable to me that you like would never even look at yourself to take accountability because I spend my whole time whole time as a parent, and I'm so close to my kids, right?
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And some of them are adults, and they tell me amazing things often, and I'll still let I'll still lay in bed at night thinking I'm not a good enough parent, I've got it wrong, I should be doing, I should be doing more, I could be doing more, replaying how I spoke to them and trying the next day to not be like that.
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And then when I repeat it, trying to so like this idea of like wait till you have kids.
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I'm like, I like it does the opposite.
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Yeah, but it's true, you know.
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It's like it's like it's like I didn't, I don't have kids, and then go, oh, I can see now why you might be abusive to them.
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Like that's just not that's just not the reality, you know?
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Well, and I you know, for me, I think that's really important.
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I had um, I have a uh episode that's being released, and I was talking in it, it's the um filmmaker of Thermality, and we were talking about therapy, and I was saying that you know, my daughter invited me into her therapy session.
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I would say that most narcissists would not go into a therapy session with their parent or with their child.
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There's no way.
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And I because my focus was, you know, I was young when I had my daughter, and I did there were mistakes that we make.
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We all make mistakes, we're human.
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And we were working through some of those things, and she was about, I think about 18, 19.
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And we were playing video games, and we were playing them all the time.
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It was like during a certain time that she, I think she was off at college, and so we were playing, and she had told a therapist, How can I get mad at my mom when she's like in overcooked as a little panda, like making food and she can't do it?
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But we had really great conversations surrounding that during it because we were able to really talk about stuff and then go deeper when we were in person.
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And and the title of your book, which is right behind you, so everyone look at that and we'll put it in the show notes so people know.
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Um, it's not them or it's it's them, not you, is like the most important part of the book, right?
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And um I always rip on Mel Robbins because she sucks and she has this horrible book called Let Them.
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I always rip on her.
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Like I think it's the most horrible book.
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No, not let them.
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It's them, not you.
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So why is this such a difficult truth for people to accept?
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You know, I think about this a lot, and I think that um I think that the majority of people don't want to look at themselves and their own failings.
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So, so when you when you hear the line it's them not you, I think a lot of people think, well, I've done loads of bad stuff as a parent, right?
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So if I start saying it's them, not you, then my kids all hate me, right?
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You know, and then I'll have to look at all the bad stuff I've done.
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But it's like this is not what we're talking about, you know.
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Like you've just said, and like that's true, like parenting is hard, you make loads of mistakes, right?
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We're not talking about being mistake free or being anywhere near perfect, but I just think that we weirdly within any system, within a family system, but then also within societal systems as well, uh, we end up defaulting to protecting the abuser.
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Like it happens, it happens all of the time.
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Um and so I think it just makes people really, really uncomfortable.
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Like on a real sort of like like clear level, I I do think that the idea of an abusive parent is uncomfortable to people.
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Yeah.
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Um, and so they'd rather just pretend that that's not the case.
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And and and you know, like I think about this all the time.
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I think so so my dad was an alcoholic, right?
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And so he he did a lot of like bad stuff when we were younger.
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He was there was domestic violence, my dad went to prison, I witnessed domestic violence, or I I witnessed violence from my dad when we went to visit him in jail, right?
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And and and and and yet, even if there's people that I don't particularly know or that didn't know my dad, I could say, Oh, I saw my dad do this to my mum in the prison visiting centre, and and and probably the majority of people still go, Oh yeah, but I'm sure he loved you.
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And you have to go, no, that's not that's not what love is.
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Now, maybe in my dad's heart, he had love for me, but for whatever reason, and we can discuss the reasons, and actually the reasons are irrelevant in the end.
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My dad was in my dad was incapable of loving me.
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Beating my mum up in front of me is is not love.
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It's not love, it's not any version of love at all.
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No, it's not it's not love.
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So and I oh sorry, go ahead.
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No, no, no, that's it.
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That's it, yeah.
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Well, and I think that that's a really important point for people to understand.
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Like, we could go down a diatribe in regards to like divorces, right?
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You divorce your ex, whatever, he's not your yum, he's your yuck, I get it, right?
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And that doesn't mean you destroy him in front of your kids.
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No, because I think for a lot of people, they don't understand when you destroy your ex, you destroy your wife, you destroy your husband in front of your kids, you are destroying your child.
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They're half of them, and they don't understand that.
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And there is a misnomer that kids that are like our group, our age group, we're coming in and we're going no contact, that are that we're just spoiled kids.
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Again, Mel Robbins is at issue in that Oprah out here in the US is an issue with that.
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But kids, children, little babies of any animal are biologically wired to love their parents.
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You look back at studies, the wire monkey, the maslow's monkeys, they will go to the monkey that beats the crap out of them, then go to the soft warm monkey.
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It is just the way that it is.
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So it takes a lot.
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And I think that you know, when we look back at like toxic abusers, we look at toxic family systems and how society protects them, but we also look back at, you know, various things like I I remember watching an interview on the news of the Jeffrey Epstein um people, and they were actually on a UK tele.
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They they're I don't know what's going on over here in the US, but in the UK, they were on a television show, and one of the reporters are like, Oh my goodness, I can't believe that happened.
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But the other reporter is, but he's a war hero.
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Well, fuck him.
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I don't care if he's a war hero.
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Like there was stuff that was so horrible, and these lines are so damaging, right?
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Like when she says that, or when blood is thicker than water, or you only get one mother, or they did the best they could.
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Like, why do you think those phrases are so damaging for people?
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Because I think that what they're doing is they're minimizing, and this is this is what happens, right?
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Whenever there is abuse, it is kind of minimized, devalued, or swept under the carpet.
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That's what we do.
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The the the example that you're talking about is um of Andrew.
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Uh, I forget his surname, but he used to be a prince.
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Yeah.
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And I I'm not gonna call him a prince anymore, right?
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Um, I mean, not that I have any allegiance to the royal family anyway, but that's a whole other story.
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But yeah, yeah.
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But um, they're talking about him, right?
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And she had to put in there that he was a war hero.
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Like she had to protect this man's dignity, right?
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Irrespective of the victim's dignity.
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And this this seems to happen all of the time when there's abuse, and particularly, and this is often the only well, in in order for there to be abuse, particularly of this kind, there needs to be an imbalance of power, and people, for whatever reason, are drawn towards power.
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This is why abuse uh happens and can happen for long prolonged periods of time, because manipulation is by design there to like hold on to the power to be able to continue to abuse it.
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And so, like, this is why abuse goes on under our noses all of the time, right?
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We have another case here in in the UK, uh, Jimmy Savile, a guy called Jimmy Savile, who was a child abuser, um, was hugely famous here, hugely involved in charity and raised all this money for charity, and lots of people, it turned out lots of people knew it was going on, but nobody wanted to you know break the mould and do that.
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And so we see this happen within family systems, right?
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Any family system.
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I use my own family system when I was a child.
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My dad was an alcoholic, we never talked about that.
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You know, you you find a scapegoat, you find a different way to talk about it, you don't look at the abuse because the abuser is the one that holds all of the power.
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And so, so, like I think in some ways, the reason that we are hearing more about um estrangement, children, adult children going no contact, is because these adult children now in in many cases have to go public because before the internet you could just go no contact, move away, and not answer the phone.
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And you wouldn't have to deal with somebody sending you a Facebook post from your parent about you know the fact that they're being horrible to you, but you know, they're still posting about how much they love you and all that kind of stuff.
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But but but there's a there's like a new uh there's a new platform for children now, adult children, to go actually, but I'm gonna if you I'm gonna tell the world my story, you're gonna smear camping me.
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I'm gonna tell the world my story.
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And so whenever power, whenever there is like whenever power starts to balance itself back up, whenever the kind of oppressed for want of a better term, start to be able to even up their power, the the the oppressors start to feel like they are, you know, it feels like they're being oppressed when actually what's what's happening is like there's an evening of the the power imbalance, right?
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Um yeah.
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So so so yeah, I think that people people cover it up at all costs.
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Um, and and that's what seems to happen, yeah.
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You know, uh we here in the US we're going through reckoning, I think, in regards to that, the cover-up of things happening, and I can't remember who it was, or I think it was about six months ago, and they said something to the effect of if you knew all the things that would happen, our total society would collapse.
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And I'm like, let it collapse.
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Yeah, you know, we had so I'm out here in California and we had a horrible case in Southern California of a little boy, his name, uh his name is Gabriel Fernandez, that was left in his home much too long.
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Um, and they kept visiting and they kept visiting, and the social workers did all of the normal things, which I think in a cookie-cutter way made sense.
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They checked to see if there was food in the closet and running water and all those things, and that's fine.
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But this kind of abuse takes a different kind of look than just is there food in the closet?
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And he died in his parents' home.
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And I think that, you know, I think back to when I tried to disclose what was going on as a child, and they said, Oh, that's just your mom.
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Maybe she doesn't understand because my mom immigrated from the Philippines.
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My dad is white here in the US.
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And I was like, this, no, what she's doing, no, that is not normal.
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And when we were talking earlier about wait until you have kids, I did have kids, and I was like, what was my mother doing?
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Why was this normal?
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You know, and I think I think even a step further, it's harder for people to understand maternal abuse because for some reason, you know, females don't abuse.
00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:46.720
Oh my gosh, they're the worst abusers that I know, you know, and so that for me is really, really something that you know, if we could like take a pause for society to look at, you know, you're right.
00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:49.759
We don't uh kids don't come with handbooks.
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:51.599
We make mistakes.
00:20:51.839 --> 00:21:05.200
And I think, you know, something in your experience, what are some of the signs that someone was emotionally neglected, even if they don't think they were as a child, or if they think their childhood wasn't that bad?
00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:12.559
Well, look, I think anybody that thinks they had a perfect childhood, for me, that's the first red flag.
00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:15.599
Because I hear it all the time, you know, I had a perfect childhood.
00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:22.079
And then, you know, and then particularly somebody that aggressively protects the fact that they had the perfect childhood.
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:23.119
Because you see that a lot.
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:25.279
But no, no, it was perfect, like it, you know.
00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:29.359
I I actually feel like that's that's the first red flag.
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:37.920
Um, I think like I think it's important to say that I actually don't believe there's such a thing as a functional family.
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:41.200
I think there's just varying degrees of dysfunction, right?
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:42.720
Like I do think that.
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:53.680
So I think that if you look harder hard enough at any human, you'll s you'll you'll find signs of dysfunction within their family, right?
00:21:54.079 --> 00:22:02.160
Um but I think like obvious signs is is like hypervigilance is it Is is like a really obvious one for me.
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:08.720
Um, I think that again there are other kind of factors that can impact that.
00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:11.839
So I look at myself, I'm like, I'm highly sensitive.
00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:25.599
So, excuse me, I believe I was like more sensitive than my older brother, and so as a result of that, probably like more deeply impacted by the things that we experienced when we were younger, right?
00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:36.400
So, I'm more likely, you know, the hypervigilance is the kind of uh the the abuse or the the the malfunction of my sensitivity at the hands of what I experienced.
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:56.000
So definitely that I think like chronic people pleasing, you know, I think that are are key signs of um a desire to be loved and and and and a lack of a strong sense of self.
00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:03.200
Because because you know, we talk about like things like self-love and self-care and stuff like that.
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:13.680
Self-love, our sense of self is developed through exploration as a child, right?
00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:31.519
So when we're like three, four, five years old, if you think about like the developmental stages, and I'm no scientist, but the developmental stages of a child, what you know, we call it like the terrible twos because around two or three years old, a child starts to realize I can say no.
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:34.160
And so they say no all the time, don't they?
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:36.160
No, no, no, no, no, no.
00:23:36.319 --> 00:23:45.680
They say no, and then they want you to still be there, but they so at that stage, a child is like now exploring their sense of self, right?
00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:47.839
So they start to find their autonomy.
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:53.200
Wow, I am a different, like I have my autonomy, I'm not my parent, right?
00:23:53.680 --> 00:24:02.480
Um, and so under the loving gaze of a parent, right, they they get to explore themselves, they get to like they try this, what works, what da da.
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:15.200
And so, like the sign of like a healthy child at nine, 10 years old is one that feels connected to their parents, but also can say to their parents, oh, I don't agree with that.
00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:19.920
Because they're they're they're gaining their autonomy, right?
00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:37.839
So, like a healthy, you know, whatever that means, but like an emotionally healthy 18, 19, 20-year-old, say somebody that's reaching adulthood, is making their own decisions without the fear of what their parent would say.
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:57.599
So if you know, if if if at 18 years old you're deciding what you're gonna do at college or university or whatever it is that you're doing, and you're thinking, uh you know, I'd love to, I'd love to follow being an artist, but I better not because my mum wants me to be this.
00:24:58.400 --> 00:25:03.680
Even that for me is a sign that you're too enmeshed with your parent because it should be like I'm gonna be an artist, all right.
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:09.039
And my my I know my parents will support me because they love me fully and I gained a full sense of self.
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:22.400
So I think that absence of of self, um, and it, you know, I that's the impact that dysfunction had on me, is uh you know, I my whole personality was based on the impact that I have on other people.
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:28.880
I didn't know you know, if you ask me how do you feel, Josh, I start thinking, what what answer does she want?
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:31.599
Like I don't know what why are you asking me?
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:32.799
What answer do you want?
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:33.839
Right, right.
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:35.119
So that's what I think.
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:39.039
So if you asked me at a funeral, I'd think, okay, well, I'm sad, I feel really down.
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:42.799
Because because I'm just going, we're at a funeral, like I'm giving you the right answer.
00:25:43.119 --> 00:25:47.440
Yeah, but if you actually said to me, Josh, no, seriously, forget everything else.
00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:48.799
How do you feel?
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:50.240
What do you want?
00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:55.039
I go blank because I never explored that one as a child.
00:25:55.200 --> 00:26:00.880
I I was always okay for my mum, or I was making everybody laugh because I could see they were sad.
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:12.960
I wasn't developing a healthy sense of self based on who I was, I was developing a sense of self based on what the world wanted me to be because that's how I got the love and the attachment that I am biologically wired to get, you know.
00:26:13.599 --> 00:26:17.440
Well, and you know, you're talking about the developmental stages.
00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:30.079
I want to point out that parents, if your kids are being a little bit rowdy or uh a bit of a pill with you during their teenage years, that is normal.
00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:33.519
It's also fantastic, it's also great, it's also a great sign.
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:41.119
Yes, because what they're they're figuring out is I am me, and here are the things that I can do.
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:54.160
I do respect my parents, and I know there's a line that I have to like, I can't be naughty or I can't be rude to them, but I'm gonna, you know, test all those lines all the time.
00:26:54.400 --> 00:27:00.640
You know, my um our youngest is in high school and he plays water polo.
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:04.160
That's not anything that we ever would have thought that he would do.
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:08.400
You know, my husband uh did basketball and football and baseball in school.
00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:09.759
I did martial arts.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:11.119
It wasn't something that we thought.
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:12.640
He's all okay, water polo.
00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:14.319
And we're like, awesome, right?
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:15.920
The games are really short.
00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:19.680
We don't have to sit there for hours, but he enjoys it.
00:27:19.759 --> 00:27:28.799
And he, you know, we were just at a game last night, and I'm I'm just over the moon with just how well he does and how confident he does.
00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:41.599
And that I think is what as parents you have to remember is yes, it's you know, now as a parent, I'm like, oh my gosh, those teenage years, they're they are difficult.
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:48.480
But you know, with two adult children now, I'm like, but look at them blossoming, look at them choosing their stuff.
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:56.960
And maybe they want to be an artist, you know, yesterday, but today they want to be a psychologist, and tomorrow they might want to be, you know, an engineer, whatever they want.
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:02.480
They have the world is their oyster, and we have to let them discover those things, right?
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:05.200
And that's super, super important.
00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:09.680
Uh, you know, there's a lot of guilt around boundaries with parents.
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:10.720
I don't have any guilt.
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:12.160
I'm like, peace out, see you later.
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:14.160
But some people do have guilt.
00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:21.119
And so why do toxic systems react so strongly when someone starts to change?
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:24.960
Because the the the change is outing them.
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:29.279
So if I say a little spotlight.
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:33.680
Yeah, well, if I say I'm not putting up with this anymore, I'm highlighting that there's a problem, right?
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:36.960
And the system, the system has been designed all over life.
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:54.400
So if you take uh mums and daughters, so if it's a toxic mum and you've got a daughter, normally when the daughter starts to get to the age of about 12, 13, that's when you'll either become a golden child, so you'll do everything they say.
00:28:54.480 --> 00:28:58.640
And by the way, you are still being highly abused if that is you, right?
00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:05.680
And lots of people break free from being the golden child, and it and it's highly manipulative and abusive.
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:08.000
But you'll go down the route of just doing and being everything.
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:12.799
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And now back to our episode.
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:57.680
And then, like, particularly with toxic mothers and daughters, that's when things like calling you a slut and all that kind of stuff will come in because they now start to get jealous of you because you start developing your body starts developing into a woman, and so now you are actually not only are you just a problem and difficult to keep as a supply, you're now in the kind of you know, narcissistic, self-obsessed mind, you're actually a threat as well.
00:30:57.759 --> 00:30:58.559
You're a problem, right?
00:30:59.119 --> 00:31:00.880
You know, so there's all of that kind of stuff.
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:04.079
So, particularly in the teenagers, that happens.
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:21.119
Um, and the people that get it the worst are the ones that uh have to speak the truth, and and and of course, like the truth to anybody within a system that's how bent uh on lying, the truth is the enemy.
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:43.519
The truth is the enemy, and so anybody that uh seeks change or even seeks any kind of um and this is why it's so difficult because even if you're you're not seeking change, even if I seek um repair, we have to admit that there's something broken.
00:31:44.960 --> 00:31:57.359
And and if you're trying to create the facade of the perfect family, you know, because because I again I think this is like people think that abusive people look a certain way, you know.
00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:05.440
Every now and then you'll see somebody online who's been caught and they're like this evil abusive person, and we all think they look like that.
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:16.079
They don't, they look like a charity worker, they look like a people don't like me saying this, but they look like a therapist, they speak like a therapist, right?
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:37.920
This is this is not me saying all therapists are toxic, but it's me saying, you know, and uh this is where this is what they do, you know, they they create this facade in order to get the power to be abusive, and so it's a huge problem for somebody that doesn't want to self-reflect.
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:53.200
If my daughter comes to me now, my daughter, my eldest daughter's 20 years old, she comes to me and says, Dad, we need to do some repair because the way you were when I was a teenager has caused me some issues.
00:32:54.000 --> 00:33:02.240
If I don't want to look at myself, right, or I don't self-reflect, I say, How dare you?
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:04.799
I fucking raised you.
00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:08.880
Look at like how dare you say we've got to go to therapy, right?
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:18.559
So if I don't want to do accountability, her truth, now I met like her truth is exposes me and I don't like it.
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:19.119
Right?
00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:23.680
The first thing I think of is what if people find out that my daughter wants to take me to therapy?
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:25.680
I can't have that.
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:29.359
I'm I'm I'm an upstanding, I'm a charity worker.
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:32.480
So I come from that place.
00:33:32.880 --> 00:33:52.720
Whereas if I'm a decent human being, dare I say normal human being, the worst possible case that I can think of is that my daughter might come and go, Dad, I want to take you, I want to go to therapy, and I want to I want you to come because I want to talk about when you did this and uh an example of something.
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:58.160
And I might think, oh my god, like how have you come up with that, right?
00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:03.039
Because if it feels to me like that didn't happen, but I wouldn't go, how dare you?
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:04.799
I would go, oh my god.
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:08.480
Like, yes, let's go.
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:17.280
Let's I might think in my mind, this is crazy what you're thinking, but let's go to therapy together and get to the bottom of why you're thinking this.
00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:25.039
Yes, yes, maybe, maybe I am crazy enough, maybe I am remembering, but I raised you.
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:33.760
And so the fact that you've reached this age and you think that that's happened, even if I don't, I'm like, this is all for me.
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:35.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:40.000
So it's be you know, for me, it's just beyond comprehension.
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:45.920
Um, the way that I see some of these people talk about adult children that go no contact.
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:56.000
And I've never met, I've never, I personally, and I've met thousands really, have never met someone where I thought, why have you you're not even trying?
00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:58.159
Like I've never met an adult child like that.
00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:01.119
All I I've met adult children who are desperate.
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:13.760
Now, don't get me wrong, I've met some adult children who have clearly developed their own level of toxic traits as a result and are probably not seeking repair in the best possible way.
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:17.039
But that still doesn't mean that they've not tried.
00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:23.519
You know, so this idea that people just do it now because they've seen it on TikTok is ridiculous.
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:24.880
Yeah, fuck y'all.
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:26.880
That's all I have to say when people say that.
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:27.679
I agree with you.
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:36.880
It you know, I it to me, it's always like first off, let me call out, thank you for saying that about therapists.
00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:39.280
Not saying that all therapists are that way.
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:43.360
However, there are some therapists that are that way.
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:50.639
And let's be honest, when there's money tied to something like that, you're gonna get some some people who are like that.
00:35:50.960 --> 00:36:01.119
And yes, there are children that of if you can take a step back instead of the how how dare you and say, Oh my gosh, why is it that you think that way?
00:36:01.360 --> 00:36:17.920
Even if the truths aren't the same, you can come to a conversation that then, like maybe they thought, oh, you were giving me a hard time or making fun of me or saying something, and you were just saying, you know, oh, that's really great that you want to do that.
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:19.360
Congratulations, blah, blah, blah.
00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:20.960
You should also think of this.
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:30.320
You know, there there is, there are always two sides, and you know, you said it being called a slut.
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:34.639
Like that was one of the first things my mom said to me as I was starting to grow up.
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:40.960
I was like, oh gosh, the I the reaction that I had, because I haven't really talked about that, was like, ugh, gross.
00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:42.960
Yeah, totally, that totally happened.
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:54.800
There are there are gradients to this, and there are some full stops to this, like um, you know, any sexual trauma, any physical abuse, like full stop.
00:36:54.880 --> 00:36:56.800
No, um, that is not okay.
00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:09.280
The way that people process information, if you can't tell, you were talking about you being um a highly sensitive child, our our oldest and our youngest daughter are highly sensitive.
00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:21.519
And my husband approaches them differently than he approaches the other two, our middle daughter and our our son, because they need different, they need different approaches.
00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:23.280
It's just the way that it is.
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:27.440
Again, and I I say often, this is not cookie cutter.
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:31.599
You know, what works for one kid is probably not gonna work for the other kid.
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:32.400
Yeah.
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:33.039
Right.
00:37:33.199 --> 00:37:42.320
And and that's why when my husband and I got together and I talked about the things that I was doing for my daughter, he was like, Oh my gosh, that's the way my youngest daughter is.
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:55.519
And they got to there's 15 years between them, but they got along so well, and they know what the other person or the other, you know, daughter is thinking, and they'll look at each other that because that's just the way that it is.
00:37:55.840 --> 00:38:11.119
And you know, one of the things that I started off with, and I think that's really, really important in the field of healing and work that we're doing is you speak really openly about your emotions and your vulnerability as a man.
00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:15.440
And I think there's this misnomer about what masculinity is.
00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:24.000
So, why do you think that emotional suppression is so normal or uh is more normalized for men?
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:31.920
Um, I think historically that's what men have, you know, generationally done, right?
00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:34.880
Kind of stoicism, holding it together.
00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:40.159
Um that's been the perception, at least.
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:41.840
But I would even challenge that.
00:38:41.920 --> 00:38:42.880
I don't think it's true.
00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:49.440
I think that um you just talked about your husband being into various different sports, right?
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:57.760
You can go to any of those basketball, football, soccer, what go to any of those stadiums, and you'll find men absolutely do emotions pretty bloody easily.
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:00.880
Yeah, so yeah, so they so they don't not do them.
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:18.000
Yeah, so actually, it's not that men don't do emotions, it's that as a society we have lacked creating spaces where it feels uh appropriate for men to do to do emotions.
00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:27.920
Um I think that men have a real difficulty in expressing emotions to one another.
00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:38.559
There is a there's there's a there's a sense of kind of I don't know if competition is the right word, but men like stature.
00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:40.880
Men are often fighting for stature.
00:39:41.039 --> 00:39:57.440
I've always said that, you know, as a sort of highly sensitive person myself, I prefer the company of a big group of women that than I do a big group of men, because personally when I'm with women I find less attempts to sort of one-up me.
00:39:57.599 --> 00:40:01.199
Now, I don't know if that's true amongst women to women, right?
00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:11.440
And you'd probably argue maybe that it's differently, but as somebody that's but when I'm the when I'm a different gender to the group, I am not picking up on that, so I feel more comfortable when I'm around a lot of men.
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:14.559
I just that I feel like there's a lot of posturing and one-upping.
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:17.599
So I think that probably goes on in within genders.
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:31.760
Uh uh anyway, but breaking the mould and showing your emotion as a man uh still leaves you ostracized, really.
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:46.639
I mean, unless it's at sports, unless it's at sporting event, um there's not many examples of a man being treated strongly uh in the face of showing tears.
00:40:46.800 --> 00:41:01.440
Like one example I give, and I know he's gone on to slap somebody at the the awards, but if you think of Will Smith, oh yeah, yeah, didn't his like his wife like admitted to cheating on him on a show and then he blubbed his eyes out.
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:05.599
Yeah, of course, and which is which which he would, yes.
00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:07.840
Um, and then that was a meme.
00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:12.719
Yeah, it's still a meme that gets shared of Will Smith crying his eyes out.
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:17.840
So yeah, I mean so like as a man you see that and you think, well, then I'm not gonna do that, am I?
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:28.320
You know, it's so interesting because the one of the the person who has the most EQ in my life is my husband, emotional um intelligence.
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:30.320
And his dad also had the same.
00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:35.039
His dad was uh one of the first Latino police officers out here where we live.
00:41:35.199 --> 00:41:46.639
Well and it it to me, like when my husband and I got married, one of my biggest concerns was I was gonna cry and mess up my makeup as I was walking down the aisle.
00:41:46.960 --> 00:41:50.800
And my husband is like my emotional support when it comes to that.
00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:58.000
Like I cry all the time now because paramenopause, it's the devil, but he like usually can snap me out of it.
00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:10.320
And his dad walked me down the aisle, and he said to me, like, as I was holding his hand, his arm, and he said, Mija, which is daughter in Spanish, he said, Mija, just take a breath.
00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:14.559
And like all of a sudden, I saw his breath like change completely.
00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:19.119
And I just started copying what he was doing, and we walked down the aisle and everything was fine.
00:42:19.280 --> 00:42:23.119
And I was like, Oh my god, this is where my husband gets it from.
00:42:23.679 --> 00:42:25.840
Like, of course, this is where he gets it from.
00:42:26.079 --> 00:42:34.079
He has been surrounded, his all of his male figures have been like that, just very like high EQ.
00:42:34.239 --> 00:42:37.760
And you know, I got the upgraded version of that high EQ.
00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:55.199
And my daughters, I know they they don't understand that, but his EQ is what they're searching for in their, you know, friendships, in their person, in their relationships, because that is not something that's valued out here.
00:42:55.360 --> 00:43:03.599
Like, and I don't like this whole masculinity issue that we have in society right now.
00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:06.079
What is being a man?
00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:12.880
And I think that we that I know that it's twisted right now.
00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:15.280
It's very, very twisted.
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:20.800
And like you said, uh a man who, you know, and if you don't want to cry, that's fine.
00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:22.239
Like I don't mind crying.
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:25.840
It I cry all the time because I just can't control it.
00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:28.320
But if you want to cry, that's totally fine.
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:32.559
It's it is an emotion, an emotion last 90 seconds, and then it's done.
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:33.920
It's an emotion.
00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:46.159
You know, you talk about your healing journey a lot, and I appreciate that because I think people can see themselves in you, right?
00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:49.599
It's a different, a different way to see healing.
00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:53.039
And so, what has it taught you about masculinity?
00:43:56.559 --> 00:43:59.679
I think look, I would say the main thing that is taught me is.
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:12.559
The biggest uh problems I had with masculinity growing up were the parts that somebody else had defined and I hadn't lined up to.
00:44:13.280 --> 00:44:20.159
And so I I I sort of just think that you know, when people say to me, What is it to be a good man?
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:26.400
I sort of say, Why don't we just erase the question and say, What is it to be a good human?
00:44:26.800 --> 00:44:29.599
Like to me, it's like to be yourself.
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:39.519
So, because there's a few problems, and I know people talk about like masculine and feminine energy, and like I I sort of kind of understand that.
00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:52.960
I would rather switch it up and say yin and yang, and like you could, you know, you need a bit of you need a bit of one side and the other, but I just think that that it's lost when we say masculine and feminine personally, because I just think I just think the terminology is wrong.
00:44:53.119 --> 00:45:02.960
So, but but but when we're talking about like what makes somebody masculine in today's world, it's like well, one it depends what culture you go to.
00:45:03.920 --> 00:45:12.159
I've just been to Samoa, and what they see in as masculine men now is nothing like what we see in the Western world.
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:23.440
So so so like I just think we see this now like kickback of like redefining what it is to be a man, and people say oh, men should cry.
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:39.760
And I'm like, actually, uh men should not be anything but themselves, like if we just all got better at accepting people for for for who they are, right?
00:45:40.400 --> 00:45:49.280
Then I don't know why we need to define like what it is to be a man because there's so many issues with that, right?
00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:56.800
So if we go if we go like I don't know, a man is strong, but I I always go, well then, so what is a woman?
00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:07.119
And they go, Well, strong as well, and I go, all right, so why so then making it man or woman loses its significance completely, you know?
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:11.679
So then it's like, well, then well a man is a provider, and I go, what?
00:46:11.840 --> 00:46:13.440
So a woman can't can't be?
00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:23.840
Well no, but so then it's like, look, we can talk about traits that men seem to have more of on the whole.
00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:33.119
No, you can talk about that statistically speaking, but I was a highly sensitive person when I was growing up, but I'm very emotional.
00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:51.760
It didn't line up with being masculine, so I I I created a new version of myself so that I could line up to be what I thought a man should be in the world, and it was a problem because it meant I wasn't myself, I was hiding and I was lonely because I wasn't making connections with myself, I was making connections with a version of myself that I thought made me more manly, and it wasn't who I was.
00:46:51.920 --> 00:47:01.519
So just like when I think about my own kids, my 10-year-old daughter is incredible at I'm gonna call it football, but you you'd probably call it soccer.
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:03.119
We'd call it soccer, yeah.
00:47:03.519 --> 00:47:07.920
I have to call it football for totally fine, totally okay.
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:14.480
But you know, like when I was a kid, she couldn't she couldn't be seen to do that.
00:47:14.559 --> 00:47:21.760
And and and and so when she was young, when she was like, she's like 10 now, when she was five, she used to wear like an Iron Man swimming costume.
00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:25.920
Oh yeah, and she loved football, she loved football.
00:47:26.239 --> 00:47:33.440
And I remember when she got to about six, seven, she said, um, I don't think I want to wear the Iron Man costume anymore when we go swimming.
00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:34.159
I said, Why?
00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:35.920
She said, Because it's a bit boyish.
00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:37.039
I said, Who told you that?
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:38.639
She said, Well, I can just see it.
00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:47.199
And her sister, who's a couple of years younger than her, loves to wear dresses, loves to have her hair down and is into dance and gymnastics.
00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:48.719
We'll be out sometimes.
00:47:48.880 --> 00:47:52.239
My daughter would be wearing a football kit, and the other one would be wearing a dress.
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:55.440
Adults would walk past and go to my youngest one in the dress.
00:47:55.840 --> 00:47:58.320
Look at you look so beautiful.
00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:03.039
And then you would see them look at my other daughter and go, Oh, so do you.
00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:04.719
But she knew.
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:05.920
She knew.
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:10.719
So, so, like these perceptions of what beautiful is.
00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:12.639
So, we had to work really hard.
00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:21.920
I had to, long story short, here, had to take my daughter to loads of sort of football, women's football games, big women's football games, so that she could see representation.
00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:25.760
And now she's doing really, really well at football, playing at a really, really high level.
00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:30.480
I actually managed her football team, the girls' football team, um, which is amazing.
00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:38.320
But but her issue there is people defining what's boyish and what's girlish.
00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:46.079
And I see no positive, I see no benefit to defining what a man is.
00:48:46.480 --> 00:48:47.599
Like I see no benefit.
00:48:48.400 --> 00:48:51.360
The only thing I see is problems.
00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:57.760
Because I could now make a list of 20 things that I say to you, I think these 20 things make you a good man.
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:05.679
And there'll be somebody that somebody that will read the 20 things and go, Well, I only tick 10 of them.
00:49:05.840 --> 00:49:06.719
So what am I?
00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:11.599
Because I feel like a man, but you're telling me that I'm lacking in half of the things that make me a man.
00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:15.920
And I go, well, actually, don't worry about it.
00:49:16.239 --> 00:49:20.079
Try and be a good try and be a good human and be yourself.
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:26.480
I want all I don't want my kids to be, I'm not interested in my kids being men or women.
00:49:27.199 --> 00:49:30.880
I'm interested in them being good human beings and being whoever they want to be.
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:37.280
And I don't honestly care about the whole the gender stuff.
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:40.000
I don't, I don't care about it, you know?
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:41.199
I love that.
00:49:41.360 --> 00:49:46.239
And I I think that well, I know that that's an incredibly important thing.
00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:53.760
I think that, you know, let's take that clip and we'll put it in a voice memo for your kids for later when they they need anything.
00:49:54.000 --> 00:50:00.800
And you can thank uh Jason Sedukis and Ted Lasso for me being okay with you calling it football.
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:07.440
Because we hear it yeah, we we hear it a lot um out here because of that.
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:17.519
You know, I think that is a very uh being a good human is so hard for a lot of people, right?
00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:28.000
And that measurement of you know, I know for me in my mom in my mom's culture, like and I've said it a couple of times here, I don't like crying.
00:50:28.159 --> 00:50:33.039
I actually do like crying, but that was something that was shielded off for me.
00:50:33.119 --> 00:50:38.000
It was like if you cry, you're not being stoic, you're not being strong, you're not being whatever it is.
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:43.599
And when I've cried, or when I cry, or I need to go cry, there's a certain movie that I watch.
00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:46.480
It just is like a washover for me to reset.
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:47.920
We get to know the movie, yeah.
00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:49.519
You can't yes, you can.
00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:53.840
Yeah, there's this movie, it's called Um What Dreams May Come.
00:50:54.000 --> 00:51:06.159
Robin Williams is in it, and um, it's a book, and it is about like uh finding true love in every facet of a lifespan.
00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:19.360
So, and that you are going to be connected to your whatever that spirit is in some other time, whatever it is, and you're gonna find your person, and then you find your other people, which are all your kids.
00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:21.519
And I I'll I'll put it in the show notes.
00:51:21.599 --> 00:51:33.519
I recommend it to everyone because you know, it like you said, being in a relationship or being in having certain roles, like people don't understand.
00:51:33.679 --> 00:51:43.119
People have certain roles, and some people are really great at some things, and some people excel at other things, and that's what makes a wonderful team when you have a partner.
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:55.599
And I think that when you define those roles and you say, No, you have to be good at this, if you define those roles, then that's where that conflict comes in.
00:51:55.840 --> 00:52:03.840
So if you can let go of that and say, okay, you know, maybe she's not gonna be great at this, but I can pick up the slack on that.
00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:09.039
And you know, it it's not a comparison, it's a it's long term.
00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:10.400
We have a long time.
00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:12.400
This is a long life, you know.
00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:15.679
And we talk about how short it is, but it's also a long life.
00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:26.480
And if this is your life partner, then you know, these are things that you you as you are being a good person and you accept are really important.
00:52:26.639 --> 00:52:30.400
And those toxic family systems make it difficult for you to do that.
00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:31.199
Exactly.
00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:41.280
Because there's these, you know, what you you have to be this way, or you know, we should be this way, or if you see certain things, you're like, oh, I don't want that.
00:52:41.599 --> 00:52:54.639
And uh what I appreciate about the work that you're doing, you know, with the breath work you're doing with the book that you're writing, is that you're addressing these things so that people can then go off and explore the things that work for them.
00:52:54.880 --> 00:52:55.519
Yeah.
00:52:56.159 --> 00:53:00.719
What do you um what were you most surprised about while you were writing your book?
00:53:03.039 --> 00:53:11.760
Um probably how many people uh it resonated with.
00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:25.840
Um, you know, like I mean, obviously I I realize the scale of what I'm talking about, but I didn't realise that almost everybody that I speak to is connected to somebody for whom the book might help.
00:53:26.320 --> 00:53:32.800
And I think I was also surprised that some of the people that said to me, I've seen you, you're writing that book.
00:53:33.039 --> 00:53:43.440
Uh you know, it's I could do a reading that with my mum or my dad, and I'd be like, Wow, you I'd never have guessed.
00:53:43.760 --> 00:53:47.679
So it you know, it's it's it's so it's so rife.
00:53:47.920 --> 00:54:11.119
And just to come back to your to your last point, just quickly, just to add something to that, I loved what you said about the relationship stuff because um if we got everybody to be comfortable and healthy with who they are, really comfortable with themselves, irrespective of what gender they are or what societal expectations it were, they're gonna be a better human being to everybody else.
00:54:11.440 --> 00:54:31.360
Because every crunchy issue I have with another human being, where I'm the cause of the issue, when I because you know, when I hurt other people, it's normally driven by an inability to be myself, and so I've not been able to fully connect with them.
00:54:31.519 --> 00:54:33.440
So perhaps I've sold them a lie.
00:54:33.599 --> 00:54:36.719
You know, you look at like look at relationship like you're talking about.
00:54:36.800 --> 00:54:38.719
I don't just mean romantic, but I mean in general.
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:46.480
If I'm desperate for people to like me, which has been my my issue my whole life, I I ultimately lie to people.
00:54:47.360 --> 00:54:52.159
I give them a really amazing version of myself at the beginning of the relationship, and then I can't show up to that.
00:54:52.400 --> 00:55:03.360
Whereas actually a grounded version of me who's okay and comfortable with who I am, if I meet you and you say, Oh, I like this, if I'm comfortable with who I am, I go, Oh, I don't, that's not really my thing.
00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:08.239
Right, and then we realise very quickly, oh, there's nothing here.
00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:09.920
Yeah, and that's that's great.
00:55:10.239 --> 00:55:19.760
You get to move on, and I get to move on when I don't know myself, you go, Oh, I really like ice skating, and I go, Oh, yeah, I've always wanted to go ice skating.
00:55:20.400 --> 00:55:25.840
Yeah, and you go, Oh, I love you know, going to basketball, and I go, Oh, my favorite.
00:55:26.159 --> 00:55:33.199
And then we start a friendship, and then you know, I keep letting you down because I don't want to go basketball when we're there, I seem miserable, right?
00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:34.719
Because I've sold you a lie.
00:55:34.880 --> 00:55:39.360
So if I knew myself, right, we wouldn't we wouldn't waste each other's time.
00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:47.760
And again, a lot of this dysfunction that we this uh of the world that we live in is that this kind of like love everybody, get on with everybody.
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:48.400
You don't have to be able to do that.
00:55:48.480 --> 00:55:50.800
I'm like, don't don't don't do that.
00:55:50.960 --> 00:55:52.320
Don't yeah, you don't have to.
00:55:53.199 --> 00:55:57.599
You should be kind, even if you don't like them, like be kind.
00:55:58.159 --> 00:56:00.639
But being kind, by the way, is being honest.
00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:08.639
Yeah, being kind is not wasting your time and pretending I like ice skating, so that you waste three months of your life getting into a relationship with me.
00:56:08.880 --> 00:56:09.679
Right, right.
00:56:10.159 --> 00:56:13.280
The kindest thing I can do is go, I don't like ice skating.
00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:17.440
Yeah, in fact, I don't think I particularly like this relationship.
00:56:17.599 --> 00:56:21.840
That is kind, you know, but we live in this kind of and it's the same.
00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:29.840
Like, see, I I want my children to see the good in people, but I also want them to make sure they see the bad in them as well.
00:56:30.159 --> 00:56:30.800
Yes.
00:56:31.199 --> 00:56:33.760
See the see people for who they are, right?
00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:37.519
And then and then make a decision on whether they get to be in your life, you know?
00:56:37.840 --> 00:56:41.920
Well, and that's that I think that's a really, really important thing.
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:44.239
Yeah, I have one last question for you.
00:56:44.480 --> 00:56:49.599
I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation, and I definitely would love to have you back on.
00:56:50.079 --> 00:57:05.039
Um, I think that if someone is listening right now and completely feeling stuck, whether it's in their relationships, whether it's, you know, they want to move forward with a relationship with their parent, uh, whether it's job, whatever it is, they feel stuck.
00:57:05.199 --> 00:57:09.199
What's the one thing that you hope they take away from today's conversation?
00:57:09.679 --> 00:57:16.239
Uh that they don't have to take responsibility for the things that happen to them.
00:57:16.719 --> 00:57:27.280
I would say that like we all have to take responsibility for what we do moving forward, but that doesn't mean they're taking responsibility for the things that happen to you.
00:57:27.440 --> 00:57:29.440
I think that's really important, you know.
00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:37.599
Um actually, I I hope that people can see the extent of the things that happen to them and make decisions based on that.
00:57:38.719 --> 00:57:39.599
I love that.
00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:41.920
Thank you so much for this conversation.
00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:43.440
I really, really enjoyed it.
00:57:43.519 --> 00:57:52.480
I think that, you know, there's so many other things for us to talk about cultural stuff, you know, going through more of the, you know, no contact stuff.
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:56.320
But I I think this conversation is incredibly valuable.
00:57:56.480 --> 00:57:58.000
There's so much to take away from it.
00:57:58.079 --> 00:58:00.960
So thank you for your time, for making time.
00:58:01.039 --> 00:58:01.920
I appreciate it.
00:58:02.079 --> 00:58:04.320
And we will be in touch definitely soon.
00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:06.239
Yeah, let's do a round two sometime.
00:58:06.320 --> 00:58:07.039
I really enjoyed it.
00:58:07.119 --> 00:58:07.760
Thank you.
00:58:08.079 --> 00:58:10.159
Thank you again for this conversation, Mr.
00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:11.519
Josh Connolly.
00:58:11.760 --> 00:58:14.719
It leaves us with something I hope you remember.
00:58:14.960 --> 00:58:21.840
Healing means taking responsibility for where you go from here, not for taking responsibility for what happened to you.
00:58:22.159 --> 00:58:25.199
Thank you for listening to Beyond Mommy Dearest.
00:58:25.360 --> 00:58:29.119
If this conversation resonated with you, subscribe to the show.
00:58:29.360 --> 00:58:36.239
Every subscription helps us get the word out and helps this important conversation reach more people.
00:58:36.719 --> 00:58:40.239
Thank you for listening to the Beyond Mommy Dearest podcast.
00:58:40.400 --> 00:58:49.360
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Until next time, keep choosing yourself, keep healing, and remember, you are worthy of love, peace, and a life beyond survival.
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