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Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Between Sessions with Berries.
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We have an inspirational guest today.
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I'm gonna let her say her name because I always butcher everybody's names.
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Go ahead and introduce yourself, and then I want to read your bio.
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Hi everyone, so I'm Dr.
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Anahita Lake Koscravi.
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I'm a psychologist based in Denver, and I'm super excited to be here.
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Now let me read this bio, you guys.
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So Anahita is a psychologist, group practice owner, and business coach for therapists.
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She started a private practice almost four years ago and quickly scaled to a group practice that has generated, or did generate, I should say, two million in revenue in under three years, which is amazing.
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Now, this is an update to her bio, even since she submitted it.
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She actually then sold the group practice, which I just think is phenomenal.
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I think that's an amazing thing to do.
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Thank you.
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She loves helping therapists scale their business to a place where they can work fewer hours, make more money, and still ensure their team is well cared for.
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That's amazing.
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She's a mom to three kids, five and under.
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Oh my goodness.
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And has built her business with a goal of having more time at home with her family while still making money she needs in order to provide for her family.
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And this is the really amazing part.
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On top of all the other stuff, she's retired her husband with her business and is all about flipping gender roles at home and in business.
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Welcome to the podcast.
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So glad to have you here.
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Oh my goodness.
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Let's dive in.
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Let's just start with.
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I'm sure we could just do your whole history and all that, but let's just start like for you.
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Was there a money mindset type thing that you had to shift being a therapist?
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I think we all kind of go through this in our trajectories becoming therapists to be able to do something like this.
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Can we just start there?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And honestly, I'll say it's like an ongoing thing.
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Yeah, it's like, yes, I've done so much mindset work, and I know I've like overcome a lot of it, and there's always so more to kind of get through.
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But I think the biggest thing for me was this narrative that like you have to grind and work so incredibly hard in order to make good money.
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And even just in our society, right?
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Like people think in order to have a really well-paying job, you have to be working like 60 to 80 hours a week.
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And I was like, I don't have time for that.
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Like, I can't do that, but I still want to make make really good money, right?
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And so I really had to work through the mindset that there can be seasons of ease and there can be seasons of like open space calendars, and you can still have the money that you want to be bringing in and taking home at the end of the day, and it's not always about how much work you're actually putting in.
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Right, right.
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So maybe tell us your story a little bit because you did this in four years, plus you have three kids under five.
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So literally within five years, you had three kids, scaled a group practice to two million, and also sold the group practice.
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Could you just for somebody listening that's like, how is that even possible?
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Maybe you could just tell us your story.
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Like, how does that happen?
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The arc of it all, totally.
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Yeah.
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So yeah, so my daughter was born in November 2020, and so at that point, I wasn't even doing anything like private practice-wise.
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I was actually working as a school psychologist.
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It wasn't until the summer of 2022 that one of my friends and I, we came together, we're like, we are so tired in bird gallop from our nine to five jobs.
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And so we came together to be like, let's start a private practice, and so we did, and then I was like, we had just started it, so it was July 2022, and then I had my second kid, so my son, in October of 2022.
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So I went on maternity leave, like a few months after starting the private practice.
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Wow.
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And so yeah, it was a crazy time, but like I remember just being like, I can't keep working in schools, and so we need to set something up ASAP so that when I come back from a maternity leave, I'm not going back to the schools, and that was what happened.
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So after my maternity leave, I didn't go back to schools, and we just like kind of went full force into the private practice.
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I like love to share this because so my son was born October 2022, and then it was like that following April that we hired our first therapist into the practice.
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It was late nights, I was up at like 9 p.m.
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with my computer, like nursing, nursing my son, and like just doing like multitasking.
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And I think a lot of people hear that and they're like, that sounds awful.
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Like, I would never want to like compromise time with my kids or just spending so much time working.
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And I was like, I actually loved it.
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I genuinely loved what I was doing, and I have the greater vision in my head.
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And this is something I talk about with my therapist in my coaching program is like there are gonna be seasons of hustle, there are gonna be seasons where it's hard, and you just have to hold the vision in your head of what's possible for you on the other side, otherwise, like nobody would do it, right?
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Like nobody would get themselves through that.
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That is so true.
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I look back on everything master's degree, all the internships, like literally everything.
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If I knew now what I knew then, I don't know if I would have done it that way, you know?
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It's like how in the hell did I even get through it?
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And then you with kids like on top of it, oh my gosh.
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Yeah.
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It was, yeah.
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I mean, it was definitely challenging, it was definitely a lot.
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But you know what?
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I think back and I'm so grateful that I did it because of where I'm at now.
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And I would never be where I'm at now had I not gone through those seasons.
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I think like I was willing to take some risk, right?
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Like, I wasn't, I quit my full-time job to just trust that this private practice was gonna work and that scaling to a group practice was gonna work.
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But like for me, because I had done that, I had no option.
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There was no option for it not to work.
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And it had to, because I had to provide for my family, right?
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And so I think sometimes we're so scared of the risk, but sometimes the risk is exactly what you need in order to propel yourself forward to get to the vision that you have in your head.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Oh my gosh.
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So when you guys were like, we got to get out of the day job, the school job, was it already we're gonna build it and sell it like in this time frame?
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Or did that just no?
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Maybe you could talk about that a little bit because that you know, it's like, gosh, is that the vision you were holding the whole time?
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Like five years I'm selling this thing after a revenue of two million?
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Like, wow, no, it's so interesting.
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Yeah, people have asked that, like, was that your goal from the beginning?
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And like, it really wasn't because truthfully, I didn't even know that was a possibility.
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Yeah, you hear of people selling businesses, but like in my head, I'm like, people sell tech businesses.
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A therapy business isn't a business that gets sold.
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But then I was starting to be in these circles with other really ambitious entrepreneurs and like you know, therapy entrepreneurs, and I heard of therapists selling their practices, and I was like, that's interesting.
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Like, okay, like I'm gonna pin that, put a pin in it, and like put it on my like vision board for like maybe like five, 10 years down the road.
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But then as we started scaling, and so my my friend June is her name, and so her and I got to this place where it was like, so we had started the practice together, and then she decided she didn't really want to do kind of more of the business stuff, and I was like, okay, that's fine.
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And so we we didn't separate because she actually like came under me and she was became an employee, and then she changed into the clinical director, and she's still the clinical director today, but so at that point when I was like, okay, I just want to go forth with this business stuff, like I just grinded it out, and then honestly, I wasn't even intentionally trying to sell the business.
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What happened was the perfect people came along, and they were interested, and I met with them to chat about it, and I was like, We just vibed so well, and I was like, you are gonna take care of my people, and that's what I cared genuinely the most about was I was never gonna sell to like a venture capitalist or you know to one of those like big tech companies or anything like that was like never gonna be any part of my story, and so these people came along and it was like you're gonna take care of my people, and that's again like all I cared about, and so we it was like a year and a half of conversations before it it closed, before the deal closed, because there were different iterations of what the deal was gonna look like, and at one point there was a conversation around like me, us kind of merging a little bit and me staying on to help manage like testing and the practice because we are both therapy and testing practice, but then honestly, I got to a place where I was like, I don't have the same drive and the same passion for this that I used to.
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I felt like it was a disservice to my therapist because I wanted them to have somebody overseeing the practice who was like gonna continue to like push and grow and continue to do right by them.
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And I just felt like I was no longer that person, and so I kind of disaligned and we came to this place, and yeah, it was like almost four weeks ago now that we closed.
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So wow.
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Oh my gosh, it's like brand new.
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That's amazing.
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Yes, it's very brand new.
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Oh my goodness.
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So I'm glad that you're bringing that up because you know, I see this a lot in the Facebook groups and the therapists I talk to and stuff, and that they're worried, like if you scale that big or you're making that much money, that it might one day compromise your values or something, right?
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Maybe you would sell out to a venture capitalist firm or something like that, you know.
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But what I'm hearing you say is like, I was never gonna do that.
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So I wonder if we could talk about that a little.
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Like, how do you stay true to your values when perspectives change like that?
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Like you're bringing in two million, right?
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And it's like there might be opportunities, somebody might come to you and throw, like, hey, we'll buy it for five million or whatever.
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I mean, I don't know how much you sold it for, but yeah, how do you how did you keep your values around that?
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Maybe we could talk about that a little bit.
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Yeah, I think that's a really good question.
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And I think that's something that I think group practice owners tend to get like a pretty bad rap out there because people think it's just you're exploiting your therapist.
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And I'm not saying that there aren't group practice owners who do that, but I think you have to hold both equally.
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You have to hold the compassionate side of you, your values, equal to like the financial piece and truly, truly equal because if either one is higher, you're compromising the other.
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So if you're saying like I want to make as much money as possible, you're gonna pay your therapist shit and you're gonna on like it's not gonna go well, right?
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Like, yeah, like they're gonna leave, it's gonna be a mess.
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Exactly.
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And if we go the other way though, if we're too compassionate and we're too caring for our people, we're not gonna be paying ourselves what we need to pay ourselves to then even maintain the practice.
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And so, again, both scenarios, your practice ends.
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Like it's just not gonna deprive, right?
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And so I think if you can hold those two at the same place throughout the entire process, right?
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From like inception of your practice to hiring and scaling to conversations around selling, that's where you're gonna be in the absolute best place possible.
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And listen, I could have sold my practice for more than I did to somebody who I had somebody who actually approached me to buy, and after meeting with him, I was like, you are not the right person for this practice.
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There's no way in hell that I'm gonna sell to you because I care too deeply for this baby that I built, right?
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And for my therapist.
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And so, yeah, we can get that vision and we can have numbers dangled in front of us, and it can feel really exciting.
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But and it's an interesting question because I think therapists are the best people to be in these situations because we care so deeply.
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And so if you can just maintain that I'm never gonna compromise my values, because at the end of the day, you have to live with whatever decision you made, right?
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And you have to explain, like, I had to go through the process of telling my therapist that there was like new leadership going on and I was exiting the practice, right?
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And so, like, I had to be able to sit there and say, I feel totally confident in what I'm telling you, and I'm not lying to you when I say like I trust these people to continue the vision of this practice and to take good care of you.
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And if I had compromised my values for like the first person who came along to buy the practice, I would not be able to live with myself saying that to them.
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Yeah, it would have been a lie.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And they probably would have left, and who knows?
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The buyers could have pulled out, like, who knows?
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There's like a triple-down effect of that.
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Exactly.
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Exactly.
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So, can you give us some examples since we're talking about this?
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Of like, yes, don't sell out to somebody that the vibe is off or whatever, whatever the money's coming from a place you don't like or whatever.
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But what are some other things you could tell somebody?
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And you probably do this in your coaching program, I'm guessing, is like, how do you figure out the numbers, the balance?
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What do you pay the clinicians?
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Is it different for interns?
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Maybe that'd be helpful for somebody listening.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And I think it's so important for therapists to take away.
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You can ask a thousand different people what they think you should be paying your people, and you will probably get a thousand different answers because it's gonna vary so much by where you're located.
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It's gonna vary by are you insurance based?
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Are you fully private pay?
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There's so many different factors.
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Even like, are you in person or are you telehealth, right?
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Because obviously, if you're in person, you're gonna have a higher expense with the office space.
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And so, you know, it's interesting in the coaching calls that we have because we are exploring these questions of like how much to pay your people.
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And it's funny because I'll tell one person one thing and then tell another person a completely different thing, and it's just because it's so specific to who the person is, their practice, all the things.
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But what I will say is like there's three different ways that you can essentially pay people, it's either a salary, a flat rate, or um a split, right?
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Don't ever start with a salary, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.
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Because if you if you start with a salary, you are, I almost guarantee you're gonna run out of money because you have to be able to pay people as they're building up their caseload, right?
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And so if you, especially if you're just starting out, you're not gonna have the cash flow to pay them a salary as they're building their caseload.
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You need to be profiting off of them.
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And so you have to be so intentional about the numbers and you have to know, and not just like what's possible now, because and I think that's the biggest mistake I see people make if they're choosing numbers to pay their people based off of their very first hire.
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And it's like, okay, my expenses are so low right now, like I can absolutely pay this person, like, even if we're talking like a split, like a 70% split.
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And I'm like, you need to think about at scale when you are at a bigger practice.
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Can you still afford to pay all of your therapists 70%?
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No, because your expenses are gonna increase, taxes are gonna increase, just expenses that come through the door that people don't realize.
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And so you have to be really smart about where you're trying to get to, what your numbers are, and then also I highly recommend like working with a coach, working with somebody who can really help who's been there before.
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And so they've made the mistakes and they've made the financial mistakes to be able to help you navigate it so that you're not bleeding money as much as possible.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Oh my gosh.
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I just feel like this is a stereotype, but therapist in general, I don't know, maybe it's just me.
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I just jump into stuff.
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I don't look at I rarely, rarely look at the numbers first.
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I have a business manager that reels me back in, you know, and I coaches do this too.
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But I mean, I am so bad about that.
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I will just be like, oh, I think I oh, somebody else wants to work for me.
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Okay, let me hire like six people and then I'm paying out like$20,000.
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It's like, what are you doing?
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This doesn't make any sense.
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He didn't think this through.
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I'm much better now, but I do have stories like that.
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Yes.
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So I really like that advice.
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First of all, it's totally based on location and how many and your expenses, your overhead.
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Do you have an office?
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Are you well telehealth?
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Like, I'm sure all of those factors go into it.
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So never start with a salary.
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Great advice.
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And I could see, like, you don't even know a person's work ethic.
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I don't have a group practice.
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I like totally thought about it years ago, and then I was like, I just don't feel like I could do that.
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But I could see, and I have a friend that has one, and she hires people, and she's just like, their work ethic sucks.
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They only want to see like three klights a day, you know, this whole thing.
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So I'm like, if you're paying a salary, you're a doc.
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You don't know like the person well.
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So I really like that.
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Don't start that way.
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I think that's smart advice.
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So, do you always recommend like a split based on everything we talked about?
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Or so it's interesting because that's how I started as was with the split.
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And then I quickly realized that like payroll was becoming really complicated because we do take insurance.
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And so navigating all the different codes and everything, it became really convoluted and insurance was taking or not insurance, payroll was taking a really long time.
00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:43.240
And so I then switched to just a flat rate.
00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:47.960
I think what was kind of nice about the path that I took was the split works.
00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:56.039
I do recommend a split in certain situations because you know that you're only paying somebody based on the income you're actually bringing in.
00:16:56.200 --> 00:17:02.919
And so you know you're not gonna ever bleed money, and so that's where a split is really helpful, especially starting out.
00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:16.359
But then I liked having that foundation to then move into the flat rate because I knew, okay, like I see what our pathways with insurance, how quickly we're getting paid, how many claims are like there's an issue with, right?
00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:17.720
So that we're not getting the payment.
00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:34.200
And so I was able to set a flat rate amount that managed all of the different rates we had and all of the different incomes and when the payments were coming and things like that, so that I again wasn't bleeding money because I think a lot of times when people set a flat rate from the jump, sometimes they set it too high, right?
00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:37.960
And then you're you have to pay them no matter what, and like you should pay.
00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:46.359
I mean, I paid my people whether or not we got reimbursed by insurance, because obviously, like if you don't, people are probably gonna leave, right?
00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:48.599
And so there's certain things there that you have to navigate.
00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:54.120
I would definitely recommend either a split or a flat rate, but if you're gonna set a flat rate, you need to know your numbers again.
00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:56.200
This is where therapists can struggle.
00:17:56.279 --> 00:18:00.839
Where it's I actually, it's funny that you were talking about feeling like, oh, I would somebody wants to work for me.
00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:01.160
Great.
00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:11.960
Because when I first, the very first time I started hiring, I had somebody who applied and I was really excited about her, and we were negotiating her rate, and she wanted to, I think she wanted to be at like 70%.
00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:14.599
Was like, okay, like I'll make it work, I'll make it work.
00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:17.799
And then she actually declined and she decided, I actually don't want to do this.
00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:20.599
And I'm so glad that she did.
00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:23.559
So glad that she did because you would have bled me dry.
00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:27.480
Yeah, like we would not have been able to sustain that pay.
00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:45.640
And then what would happen too, and this is like really helpful for therapists to know, is if you set something from the beginning, you can change it for future employees, but you need to make sure that those employees aren't talking because now, like, if if I had paid her 70% and then the next person I hired was at 60% and they talked, that would be an issue, right?
00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:53.079
And then, like, it's not only an issue for them, but you as the practice owner, you're putting yourself in like a really tough spot with like how do people now respect you?
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:54.200
How do people trust you?
00:18:54.359 --> 00:19:03.480
All of those values that you probably want to have as the practice owner are now kind of lessening and lessening as people find these things out between each other.
00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:07.240
So oh my goodness, wow, such great advice.
00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:11.799
I guess you have a system probably in your program where you're teaching how to figure out all this stuff.
00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:12.440
That's amazing.
00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:13.160
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:13.960
Absolutely.
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:14.839
That's great.
00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:15.880
Absolutely, yeah.
00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:19.400
So, okay, so backing up a little bit and talking about values.
00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:22.359
So you're a mom of three, right?
00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:25.400
How did you hang on to your values around being a mom?
00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:28.039
And then like basically essentially a startup.
00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:36.039
How do you manage those values and stay like true to like your boundaries around being the parent you want to be, I guess, and running a business?
00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:38.120
How do you navigate that?
00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:39.160
Absolutely.
00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:41.480
I'll say when I started, I was not good at it.
00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:42.039
Okay.
00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:49.000
There was there was definitely moments where I realized I need to be more present with my kids, and I'm not.
00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:57.079
As I was going through it, I did have to check myself and I had to realize yes, you do need to have a season of puzzle and grind.
00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:03.960
And even through that season, you need to still take time away from the business so that you can be present with your kids and things like that.
00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:16.120
And so it didn't start perfectly by any means, but I was able to get to a place, and the things that really, really helped me were to people talk about like setting your hours and schedules, right?
00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:18.599
And that was not something that worked for me at all.
00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:22.120
But what did was having a physical separation, right?
00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:29.000
So, like here's where you do your work and here is where it's kid time, and those don't overlap.
00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:35.400
And so I knew that if I'm in my office, I'm going all in and I'm focusing on the work that I need to do.
00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:43.480
And if I'm not in my office, if I'm with my kids or even whatever, outside of just literally outside of the office, it's not work time.
00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:52.920
And there would be times where like that was a hard line, and I would like be on my phone and I would like see something come through and I would need to respond, and I would check in with my husband, like, hey, I need to respond to this.
00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:54.120
Can you manage it?
00:20:54.200 --> 00:20:55.799
And like then I would just walk away.
00:20:55.880 --> 00:21:02.039
But there were times that I'm somebody who I like my inbox being clear, I like to respond to things right away.
00:21:02.120 --> 00:21:12.599
Like, I don't like having notifications, but there were times that I had to work on that for myself to be like, you're with your family, and this is not an emergency, and so you just have to not respond.
00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:14.440
You just have to not respond, right?
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:15.960
And you just have to be present.
00:21:16.120 --> 00:21:20.759
And I think a lot of it too was recognizing I want both things with my kids.
00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:27.079
I want them to see me working and see me enjoy working and realize that you can have a job that you love and that you really enjoy.
00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:34.920
But then also I never want to hear them say something around like, oh, but you're always working or you're not paying attention to me, or something like that, right?
00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:43.160
And so I was really intentional that when I'm with them, I'm not checking my phone, I'm not responding to things, I'm not multitasking.
00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:45.000
It's like I'm with you and I'm with you.
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:46.920
And then I'm working, I'm working.
00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:50.920
So I like need you to not be in this space with me at that point.
00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:51.799
It's hard though.
00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:52.599
It's really hard.
00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:53.240
I bet.
00:21:53.400 --> 00:22:02.759
Because I mean, I guess my question around that is when we say in my office, I'm in my office, did you have a physical office outside of the home, or were you doing all this telehealth for your parents?
00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:04.120
I was doing it all from home.
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:04.759
Yeah.
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:05.640
So wow.
00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:07.000
And we do have an office space.
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:07.960
Like we're in in person.
00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:11.079
It's funny, I keep saying like we as if I'm like currently on.
00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:12.200
Even you're still there.
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:13.880
Well, you're probably not used to it yet.
00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:15.960
You're like, whoa, I sold this thing.
00:22:16.120 --> 00:22:16.920
So yeah.
00:22:17.240 --> 00:22:22.120
So the practice does have like an in person space, but I did a lot of stuff from home.
00:22:22.359 --> 00:22:27.000
Now I have my own office in my house, and we just moved recently, but at our old house, my office.
00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:29.960
Was like a desk in the corner of our guest room.
00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:31.079
Like, okay, yeah.
00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:32.839
I just had to make something work.
00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:34.839
And for the longest time, I didn't even have that.
00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:36.039
I just had my laptop.
00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:41.880
And so I would just have to be intentional about like leaving wherever like the family was to like really focus on working.
00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:43.240
Sometimes that was my bedroom.
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:44.680
Sometimes it was just the basement.
00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:48.519
It was just finding whatever space to separate myself as much as possible.
00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:49.480
Gotcha.
00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:51.160
Yeah, that's really interesting.
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:55.640
Because I could imagine you can hear the baby like in the other room faintly crying or something.
00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:58.759
And it's probably like, oh my God, I want to go take care of the baby.
00:22:59.079 --> 00:22:59.400
Yes.
00:22:59.559 --> 00:22:59.880
Yes.
00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:05.079
There were definitely moments where, especially like when I would be in the basement, because the kitchen was right above where it was.
00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:07.640
And so I would just like hear them like running around and everything.
00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:11.319
And and then, yeah, there were moments I would like hear kids fighting or crying.
00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:16.599
And it's just like, and it would make it really hard to like focus and like be so present in what I was trying to do.
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:20.519
But I again, it's like, okay, like my husband's with them, like they're okay.
00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:23.079
You know, if they needed me, like he would let me know.
00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:31.799
It's hard because like your attention, even talking about the separation, as much as I wanted my brain to also be able to like separate the two, it wasn't always possible, right?
00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:35.799
And so it's just like, how do I work through this as best as possible?
00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:37.079
And that's all you can do.
00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:38.599
Yeah, I bet.
00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:43.400
And part of your bio talks about switching the traditional roles, like with your husband and stuff.
00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:47.319
So I guess was he the one up there chasing the kids in the kitchen when you could hear them?
00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:49.559
Or like, did you hire somebody to help?
00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:50.039
Or no?
00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:52.120
Like it was my husband, yeah.
00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:54.279
We are very fortunate we have family around.
00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:58.359
So, like my parents live close by, and my husband's mom lives close by too.
00:23:58.519 --> 00:23:59.720
So we did have help from them.
00:23:59.960 --> 00:24:10.200
But yeah, it's been almost two years now that he's been home with the kids, and so it's interesting because it feels so normal, and like that just kind of really fits for both of us.
00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:14.200
Like, he absolutely loves it, and I love what I do as well.
00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:18.440
But then I'm reminded that this is not normal when I talk to other people, right?
00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:21.079
And like people will ask, Oh, what do you do?
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:22.200
What does your husband do?
00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:27.799
And when I say stay-at-home dad, they're all like you can see it on their face, like, oh, oh, okay.
00:24:28.039 --> 00:24:31.559
You know, and it's just like I actually had this, I love sharing my story.
00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:40.120
I had an experience with our pediatrician, and she was asking about kids, oh, are your kids in daycare, or are they like grandparents, or are you at home?
00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:42.839
Like, never mentioned like the possibility of my husband being home.
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:45.079
And I was like, No, actually, my husband's a stay-at-home dad.
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:46.599
I could tell she had to check herself.
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:50.039
She was like, Oh, like, yeah, that's absolutely a possibility.
00:24:50.120 --> 00:24:51.720
I don't know why I didn't think that myself.
00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:53.799
And I was like, Yeah, I mean, that's our situation.
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:57.000
And so those moments, I'm like, oh yeah, this isn't normal.
00:24:57.160 --> 00:25:03.559
This isn't what people typically like think of if they think somebody's gonna stay home with the kids, it's not the husband.
00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:06.599
But I mean, it works so well for us, and I'm so grateful.
00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:07.640
Does he love it?
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:12.359
Is he like, does he is he like, I wish I could get back to work, or is he like, this is awesome?
00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:13.400
Not at all.
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:15.400
He's like so grateful for it.
00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:20.039
Yeah, he like loves it so much, which is that's really cool too, right?
00:25:20.120 --> 00:25:23.240
It's and I know for myself, I couldn't be a stay-at-home own.
00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:30.440
Like, yeah, I don't have that much patience in me, like, but for him, it works really, really well, and he really genuinely loves it.
00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:39.960
And so it's cool, it's cool for us to both kind of just fit in the roles that we're in, and not even like second guess it or not question it or like not want something different either.
00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:42.039
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.
00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:42.759
Oh my gosh.
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:44.839
I mean, I think that's the dream, really.
00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:55.000
Retire your husband or just even the cost of like daycare or like having to take them to family or depend on family to watch the kids, like yeah, that's a huge burden for a lot of people.
00:25:55.079 --> 00:26:01.480
So, for one of you to be able to stay home based on this amazing thing you did in five years, like that is the dream.
00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:07.160
And you look so young, it's like now you got a coaching business, you know, it's just like the world is your oyster, you know?
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:08.519
It's really exciting.
00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:10.200
Yeah, congratulations.
00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:11.400
I appreciate that very cool.
00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:11.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:13.400
I appreciate that a lot.
00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:15.880
So, did you exit the practice completely?
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:25.400
Like, because I've heard of people selling and they're like, Well, we want you to stay on for like a year or have a caseload or help us with policies, but are you just like totally out?
00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:28.120
And your partner stayed on, I guess, you said as well.
00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:29.000
Yes, yes, okay.
00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:30.839
So she's sold the clinical director.
00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:33.720
I wouldn't say I'm totally out, but I'm transitioning out.
00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:40.279
So there's no like stipulation on the contract that you're gonna stay on to see clients or stay on to like run anything or be a go-to person.
00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:47.960
But I obviously care very deeply for my practice, and I want my therapist to be well taken care of, and so I'm still helping with the transition.
00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:50.200
I'm helping make sure that everything is taken care of.
00:26:50.279 --> 00:27:24.200
People know who to go to for what, and that's something that I think that's the biggest challenge is like I wasn't necessarily in the practice a ton, and I wasn't people's go-to for a lot of things, but there were certain things that people would come to me for, or especially our admin, she would come to me for a lot of things, and so it's really like how do I ease this transition as much as possible so that her role doesn't feel disjointed, that she doesn't feel confused or stressed about needing the support she needs, and so I will still be the person that she can ask questions to while also slowly shifting that to the new owner.
00:27:24.599 --> 00:27:25.000
Nice.
00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:33.400
So the goal is really like within the next year that I will be completely out, I won't even have like an email associated with them or anything like that, right?
00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:38.120
But right now it's kind of like a slow transition until we get to that point.
00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:39.960
That's amazing, yeah.
00:27:40.120 --> 00:27:40.839
That's so cool.
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:41.319
Thank you.
00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:46.920
So are you gonna still see clients or are you moving fully into the coaching role and doing it?
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:55.640
Yeah, I still have a couple clients, and I will never be somebody I I guess never say never, but for the foreseeable future, I won't be somebody to discharge clients.
00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:57.640
So I'm happy to keep seeing the clients that I have.
00:27:57.720 --> 00:27:59.559
I have so so few at this point.
00:27:59.960 --> 00:28:02.759
So I'm seeing usually it's like one or two per week.
00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:14.519
Oh, yeah that I see, but yeah, so I'm just I'm not like happy to keep seeing them and until they are like, okay, I'm ready to be, I'm ready to graduate, I'm ready to be done, but I'm happy to continue seeing them as they want.
00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:16.920
Just like natural attrition out of care.
00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:18.200
That's amazing.
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:18.759
Yeah.
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:21.720
Oh my gosh, how cool is that?
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:24.839
So tell us about the coaching program.
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:25.720
What is it?
00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:27.640
How do people find it?
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:29.480
Maybe give us a little rundown.
00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:29.799
Yeah.
00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:30.759
Yeah, absolutely.
00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:39.480
So I call it my Freedom First Group Practice Accelerator because the goal is really to scale to a practice that can run itself and that you have to work very minimally in.
00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:44.120
And so it's a three-month group coaching program, and there's a course associated with it to like really help people.
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:52.920
I literally copy and paste all the things I use in my practice into this course for people to like take into the I call it like my copy paste edit essentially.
00:28:53.160 --> 00:29:05.160
And so I really want people to like feel like they don't have to reinvent the wheel and they can just like copy things that have worked for somebody else and then edit it to really fit their vibe and what they want for their practice and all those things.
00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:06.680
So, yeah, it's a three-month program.
00:29:06.759 --> 00:29:19.400
It's designed for therapists either who are like, I am just solo, then I want to hire my first therapist, or I have some people in there who have well-established practices and are just looking for like how do I actually get my time back?
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:25.079
Because as we have chatted about here, like group practice owners, I've heard plenty say, like, I just want to burn it all to the ground.
00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:25.640
I'm done with this.
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:26.359
This is so hard.
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:30.759
And so the goal is like, again, you have an asset.
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:32.279
You should never just walk away from it.
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:36.200
Don't ever, please, if you're listening and you have practice, don't ever burn it to the ground.
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:40.359
There are things that you can do to kind of get it to a place where you can walk away with at least some money.
00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:44.120
Maybe it's not the best offer or something like that, but you have an asset that you're building.
00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:46.120
So yeah, so that's the program.
00:29:46.279 --> 00:29:48.120
How can people find me on Instagram?
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:48.920
Is the best place.
00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:50.200
So my handle is Dr.
00:29:50.359 --> 00:29:51.160
Anahita Banu.
00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:53.640
So please, like, feel free to DM me.
00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:55.559
I get people in my DMs who are like, is this AI?
00:29:55.640 --> 00:29:57.000
I'm like, no, this is really me.
00:29:57.160 --> 00:29:59.640
So please, like, like chat with me.
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:01.240
I'm like happy to chat with people.
00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:02.920
And I'm getting my website up and running.
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:05.480
It is not, it's currently under construction, I'll say that.
00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:07.079
But eventually it will be up.
00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:09.960
But Instagram is just the best place for people to reach out.
00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:10.920
That's really cool.
00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:11.240
Yeah.
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:12.599
And I didn't even ask you.
00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:15.000
We always talk about technology or AI here.
00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:17.799
Is that something you were going to bring into your group practice?
00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:19.000
Or how do you feel about that?
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:21.319
Because I know a lot of therapists are all the fizz.
00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:24.120
They don't know whether they should bring it into their group or not.
00:30:24.279 --> 00:30:26.839
I just wonder what what's your take on that?
00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:29.640
I hear a lot of people, I hear both sides of it, right?
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:31.400
And I understand both sides of it.
00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:40.680
And at the same time, I think whatever we can do to save people's time as much as possible, without, and again, this is where the values piece comes in, right?
00:30:40.759 --> 00:30:47.799
Without compromising our values, without compromising the actual care and the privacy of our clients, the better.
00:30:47.960 --> 00:31:01.400
And so if you are gonna use AI in your practice, it's being really, really intentional about whatever program or product you're using so that it is matching the values that you have.
00:31:01.720 --> 00:31:04.120
Client privacy obviously is first and foremost, right?
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:15.319
And so it's really just ensuring that whatever platform you use, like is HIFA compliant, can respect that, even like within that, that you do your checks and balances to make sure that you feel aligned with what's happening.
00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:23.799
And and I always recommend to you as a practice owner, should try anything out first before you introduce it to your practice.
00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:31.960
If you're gonna try AI for like notes or something, like like try it yourself first, or like for me, like I would have June try as the clinical director, right?
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:39.319
Like somebody that is really invested in the practice that you trust really deeply before you just like roll it out to everybody else.
00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:40.519
Like, hey, guess what?
00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:41.480
We're using this today.
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:42.599
Yeah.
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:51.960
You want to be able to back it up and you want to be able to say, like, I've used this, this benefited me, this is going to help you in these ways, and this is why it's safe, and this is you know, all of those things.
00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:52.920
Smart.
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:53.880
So smart.
00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:54.680
Oh my goodness.
00:31:54.759 --> 00:31:55.640
Well, thank you today.
00:31:55.880 --> 00:31:59.240
This is just inspirational and so much great information.
00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:08.279
And I just really like the let's pause and think about every step you're gonna take intentionally before you just jump in and hire a bunch of people and think you're gonna have a group practice.
00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:09.000
Yes.
00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:12.120
Oh my gosh, please be very intentional about everything you do.
00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:14.839
I hear so many people who are like, yeah, this person wanted to work for me.
00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:15.640
So I just took them on.
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:21.240
I'm like, you have to be like, I'm ready to scale to a group practice, not just, oh yeah, someone wants to work with me, so I'll take on it.
00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:22.279
Yeah, let's do this.
00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:23.079
That's how I do it.
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:26.120
I fly by the seat of my pants and I regret it later.
00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:28.279
Yeah, I hear that.
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:28.759
I hear that.
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:30.120
Oh, thank you so much.
00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:32.599
It was great to meet you, and thanks a lot.
00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:35.000
And you guys can find her information in the show notes too.
00:32:35.079 --> 00:32:38.440
If you want to follow her on Instagram, and eventually her website will be up.
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:39.400
So excited.
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:40.200
Thank you so much.
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:52.440
Between sessions is brought to you by Barries because clinicians deserve support too.
00:32:52.759 --> 00:33:00.039
To learn how berries can help you streamline your notes, if you're stressed, and make space for what matters most, visit hayberries.com.
00:00:27.319 --> 00:00:31.640
Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Between Sessions with Berries.
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We have an inspirational guest today.
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I'm gonna let her say her name because I always butcher everybody's names.
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Go ahead and introduce yourself, and then I want to read your bio.
00:00:51.640 --> 00:00:53.079
Hi everyone, so I'm Dr.
00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:54.840
Anahita Lake Koscravi.
00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:58.039
I'm a psychologist based in Denver, and I'm super excited to be here.
00:00:58.359 --> 00:00:59.959
Now let me read this bio, you guys.
00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:05.879
So Anahita is a psychologist, group practice owner, and business coach for therapists.
00:01:06.039 --> 00:01:17.560
She started a private practice almost four years ago and quickly scaled to a group practice that has generated, or did generate, I should say, two million in revenue in under three years, which is amazing.
00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:20.920
Now, this is an update to her bio, even since she submitted it.
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She actually then sold the group practice, which I just think is phenomenal.
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I think that's an amazing thing to do.
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Thank you.
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She loves helping therapists scale their business to a place where they can work fewer hours, make more money, and still ensure their team is well cared for.
00:01:35.479 --> 00:01:36.359
That's amazing.
00:01:36.599 --> 00:01:40.359
She's a mom to three kids, five and under.
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Oh my goodness.
00:01:41.719 --> 00:01:48.759
And has built her business with a goal of having more time at home with her family while still making money she needs in order to provide for her family.
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And this is the really amazing part.
00:01:50.920 --> 00:01:57.719
On top of all the other stuff, she's retired her husband with her business and is all about flipping gender roles at home and in business.
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Welcome to the podcast.
00:02:00.039 --> 00:02:02.039
So glad to have you here.
00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:03.079
Oh my goodness.
00:02:03.640 --> 00:02:04.599
Let's dive in.
00:02:04.759 --> 00:02:05.879
Let's just start with.
00:02:05.959 --> 00:02:10.120
I'm sure we could just do your whole history and all that, but let's just start like for you.
00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:16.199
Was there a money mindset type thing that you had to shift being a therapist?
00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:21.879
I think we all kind of go through this in our trajectories becoming therapists to be able to do something like this.
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Can we just start there?
00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:25.159
Yeah, absolutely.
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And honestly, I'll say it's like an ongoing thing.
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Yeah, it's like, yes, I've done so much mindset work, and I know I've like overcome a lot of it, and there's always so more to kind of get through.
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But I think the biggest thing for me was this narrative that like you have to grind and work so incredibly hard in order to make good money.
00:02:43.159 --> 00:02:45.240
And even just in our society, right?
00:02:45.320 --> 00:02:49.719
Like people think in order to have a really well-paying job, you have to be working like 60 to 80 hours a week.
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And I was like, I don't have time for that.
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Like, I can't do that, but I still want to make make really good money, right?
00:02:55.240 --> 00:03:11.000
And so I really had to work through the mindset that there can be seasons of ease and there can be seasons of like open space calendars, and you can still have the money that you want to be bringing in and taking home at the end of the day, and it's not always about how much work you're actually putting in.
00:03:11.320 --> 00:03:12.200
Right, right.
00:03:12.760 --> 00:03:18.200
So maybe tell us your story a little bit because you did this in four years, plus you have three kids under five.
00:03:18.280 --> 00:03:24.760
So literally within five years, you had three kids, scaled a group practice to two million, and also sold the group practice.
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Could you just for somebody listening that's like, how is that even possible?
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Maybe you could just tell us your story.
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Like, how does that happen?
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The arc of it all, totally.
00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:34.520
Yeah.
00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:41.879
So yeah, so my daughter was born in November 2020, and so at that point, I wasn't even doing anything like private practice-wise.
00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:43.800
I was actually working as a school psychologist.
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It wasn't until the summer of 2022 that one of my friends and I, we came together, we're like, we are so tired in bird gallop from our nine to five jobs.
00:03:52.760 --> 00:04:05.320
And so we came together to be like, let's start a private practice, and so we did, and then I was like, we had just started it, so it was July 2022, and then I had my second kid, so my son, in October of 2022.
00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:09.960
So I went on maternity leave, like a few months after starting the private practice.
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Wow.
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And so yeah, it was a crazy time, but like I remember just being like, I can't keep working in schools, and so we need to set something up ASAP so that when I come back from a maternity leave, I'm not going back to the schools, and that was what happened.
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So after my maternity leave, I didn't go back to schools, and we just like kind of went full force into the private practice.
00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:40.600
I like love to share this because so my son was born October 2022, and then it was like that following April that we hired our first therapist into the practice.
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It was late nights, I was up at like 9 p.m.
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with my computer, like nursing, nursing my son, and like just doing like multitasking.
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And I think a lot of people hear that and they're like, that sounds awful.
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Like, I would never want to like compromise time with my kids or just spending so much time working.
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And I was like, I actually loved it.
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I genuinely loved what I was doing, and I have the greater vision in my head.
00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:15.560
And this is something I talk about with my therapist in my coaching program is like there are gonna be seasons of hustle, there are gonna be seasons where it's hard, and you just have to hold the vision in your head of what's possible for you on the other side, otherwise, like nobody would do it, right?
00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:17.960
Like nobody would get themselves through that.
00:05:18.280 --> 00:05:19.079
That is so true.
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I look back on everything master's degree, all the internships, like literally everything.
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If I knew now what I knew then, I don't know if I would have done it that way, you know?
00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:31.160
It's like how in the hell did I even get through it?
00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:34.040
And then you with kids like on top of it, oh my gosh.
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Yeah.
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It was, yeah.
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I mean, it was definitely challenging, it was definitely a lot.
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But you know what?
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I think back and I'm so grateful that I did it because of where I'm at now.
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And I would never be where I'm at now had I not gone through those seasons.
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I think like I was willing to take some risk, right?
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Like, I wasn't, I quit my full-time job to just trust that this private practice was gonna work and that scaling to a group practice was gonna work.
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But like for me, because I had done that, I had no option.
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There was no option for it not to work.
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And it had to, because I had to provide for my family, right?
00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:15.400
And so I think sometimes we're so scared of the risk, but sometimes the risk is exactly what you need in order to propel yourself forward to get to the vision that you have in your head.
00:06:15.639 --> 00:06:16.439
Yeah, yeah.
00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:17.639
Oh my gosh.
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So when you guys were like, we got to get out of the day job, the school job, was it already we're gonna build it and sell it like in this time frame?
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Or did that just no?
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Maybe you could talk about that a little bit because that you know, it's like, gosh, is that the vision you were holding the whole time?
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Like five years I'm selling this thing after a revenue of two million?
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Like, wow, no, it's so interesting.
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Yeah, people have asked that, like, was that your goal from the beginning?
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And like, it really wasn't because truthfully, I didn't even know that was a possibility.
00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:51.639
Yeah, you hear of people selling businesses, but like in my head, I'm like, people sell tech businesses.
00:06:51.879 --> 00:06:54.439
A therapy business isn't a business that gets sold.
00:06:54.680 --> 00:07:04.920
But then I was starting to be in these circles with other really ambitious entrepreneurs and like you know, therapy entrepreneurs, and I heard of therapists selling their practices, and I was like, that's interesting.
00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:11.879
Like, okay, like I'm gonna pin that, put a pin in it, and like put it on my like vision board for like maybe like five, 10 years down the road.
00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:25.319
But then as we started scaling, and so my my friend June is her name, and so her and I got to this place where it was like, so we had started the practice together, and then she decided she didn't really want to do kind of more of the business stuff, and I was like, okay, that's fine.
00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:46.280
And so we we didn't separate because she actually like came under me and she was became an employee, and then she changed into the clinical director, and she's still the clinical director today, but so at that point when I was like, okay, I just want to go forth with this business stuff, like I just grinded it out, and then honestly, I wasn't even intentionally trying to sell the business.
00:07:46.439 --> 00:08:43.240
What happened was the perfect people came along, and they were interested, and I met with them to chat about it, and I was like, We just vibed so well, and I was like, you are gonna take care of my people, and that's what I cared genuinely the most about was I was never gonna sell to like a venture capitalist or you know to one of those like big tech companies or anything like that was like never gonna be any part of my story, and so these people came along and it was like you're gonna take care of my people, and that's again like all I cared about, and so we it was like a year and a half of conversations before it it closed, before the deal closed, because there were different iterations of what the deal was gonna look like, and at one point there was a conversation around like me, us kind of merging a little bit and me staying on to help manage like testing and the practice because we are both therapy and testing practice, but then honestly, I got to a place where I was like, I don't have the same drive and the same passion for this that I used to.
00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:55.079
I felt like it was a disservice to my therapist because I wanted them to have somebody overseeing the practice who was like gonna continue to like push and grow and continue to do right by them.
00:08:55.159 --> 00:09:04.200
And I just felt like I was no longer that person, and so I kind of disaligned and we came to this place, and yeah, it was like almost four weeks ago now that we closed.
00:09:04.279 --> 00:09:05.399
So wow.
00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:07.560
Oh my gosh, it's like brand new.
00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:08.279
That's amazing.
00:09:08.440 --> 00:09:09.639
Yes, it's very brand new.
00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:10.680
Oh my goodness.
00:09:10.919 --> 00:09:25.000
So I'm glad that you're bringing that up because you know, I see this a lot in the Facebook groups and the therapists I talk to and stuff, and that they're worried, like if you scale that big or you're making that much money, that it might one day compromise your values or something, right?
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Maybe you would sell out to a venture capitalist firm or something like that, you know.
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But what I'm hearing you say is like, I was never gonna do that.
00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:33.639
So I wonder if we could talk about that a little.
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Like, how do you stay true to your values when perspectives change like that?
00:09:37.799 --> 00:09:39.720
Like you're bringing in two million, right?
00:09:39.879 --> 00:09:45.320
And it's like there might be opportunities, somebody might come to you and throw, like, hey, we'll buy it for five million or whatever.
00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:49.879
I mean, I don't know how much you sold it for, but yeah, how do you how did you keep your values around that?
00:09:50.039 --> 00:09:51.560
Maybe we could talk about that a little bit.
00:09:51.879 --> 00:09:53.720
Yeah, I think that's a really good question.
00:09:53.799 --> 00:10:02.200
And I think that's something that I think group practice owners tend to get like a pretty bad rap out there because people think it's just you're exploiting your therapist.
00:10:02.360 --> 00:10:08.519
And I'm not saying that there aren't group practice owners who do that, but I think you have to hold both equally.
00:10:08.680 --> 00:10:19.560
You have to hold the compassionate side of you, your values, equal to like the financial piece and truly, truly equal because if either one is higher, you're compromising the other.
00:10:19.879 --> 00:10:27.240
So if you're saying like I want to make as much money as possible, you're gonna pay your therapist shit and you're gonna on like it's not gonna go well, right?
00:10:27.320 --> 00:10:29.799
Like, yeah, like they're gonna leave, it's gonna be a mess.
00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:31.399
Exactly.
00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:40.600
And if we go the other way though, if we're too compassionate and we're too caring for our people, we're not gonna be paying ourselves what we need to pay ourselves to then even maintain the practice.
00:10:40.680 --> 00:10:43.799
And so, again, both scenarios, your practice ends.
00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:46.200
Like it's just not gonna deprive, right?
00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:53.399
And so I think if you can hold those two at the same place throughout the entire process, right?
00:10:53.480 --> 00:11:02.200
From like inception of your practice to hiring and scaling to conversations around selling, that's where you're gonna be in the absolute best place possible.
00:11:02.360 --> 00:11:13.399
And listen, I could have sold my practice for more than I did to somebody who I had somebody who actually approached me to buy, and after meeting with him, I was like, you are not the right person for this practice.
00:11:13.560 --> 00:11:19.000
There's no way in hell that I'm gonna sell to you because I care too deeply for this baby that I built, right?
00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:19.960
And for my therapist.
00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:26.519
And so, yeah, we can get that vision and we can have numbers dangled in front of us, and it can feel really exciting.
00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:33.720
But and it's an interesting question because I think therapists are the best people to be in these situations because we care so deeply.
00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:42.279
And so if you can just maintain that I'm never gonna compromise my values, because at the end of the day, you have to live with whatever decision you made, right?
00:11:42.519 --> 00:11:51.159
And you have to explain, like, I had to go through the process of telling my therapist that there was like new leadership going on and I was exiting the practice, right?
00:11:51.240 --> 00:12:03.080
And so, like, I had to be able to sit there and say, I feel totally confident in what I'm telling you, and I'm not lying to you when I say like I trust these people to continue the vision of this practice and to take good care of you.
00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:10.039
And if I had compromised my values for like the first person who came along to buy the practice, I would not be able to live with myself saying that to them.
00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:11.560
Yeah, it would have been a lie.
00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:12.600
Yeah, yeah.
00:12:12.680 --> 00:12:14.600
And they probably would have left, and who knows?
00:12:14.759 --> 00:12:16.680
The buyers could have pulled out, like, who knows?
00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:18.680
There's like a triple-down effect of that.
00:12:19.000 --> 00:12:19.960
Exactly.
00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:21.080
Exactly.
00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:24.360
So, can you give us some examples since we're talking about this?
00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:31.560
Of like, yes, don't sell out to somebody that the vibe is off or whatever, whatever the money's coming from a place you don't like or whatever.
00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:33.960
But what are some other things you could tell somebody?
00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:39.000
And you probably do this in your coaching program, I'm guessing, is like, how do you figure out the numbers, the balance?
00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:40.279
What do you pay the clinicians?
00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:41.799
Is it different for interns?
00:12:42.120 --> 00:12:44.440
Maybe that'd be helpful for somebody listening.
00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:45.879
Yeah, absolutely.
00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:48.600
And I think it's so important for therapists to take away.
00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:58.600
You can ask a thousand different people what they think you should be paying your people, and you will probably get a thousand different answers because it's gonna vary so much by where you're located.
00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:00.680
It's gonna vary by are you insurance based?
00:13:00.759 --> 00:13:02.279
Are you fully private pay?
00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:03.879
There's so many different factors.
00:13:04.039 --> 00:13:06.680
Even like, are you in person or are you telehealth, right?
00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:10.600
Because obviously, if you're in person, you're gonna have a higher expense with the office space.
00:13:10.680 --> 00:13:17.960
And so, you know, it's interesting in the coaching calls that we have because we are exploring these questions of like how much to pay your people.
00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:27.159
And it's funny because I'll tell one person one thing and then tell another person a completely different thing, and it's just because it's so specific to who the person is, their practice, all the things.
00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:35.000
But what I will say is like there's three different ways that you can essentially pay people, it's either a salary, a flat rate, or um a split, right?
00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:38.919
Don't ever start with a salary, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it.
00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:50.279
Because if you if you start with a salary, you are, I almost guarantee you're gonna run out of money because you have to be able to pay people as they're building up their caseload, right?
00:13:50.360 --> 00:13:57.560
And so if you, especially if you're just starting out, you're not gonna have the cash flow to pay them a salary as they're building their caseload.
00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:00.039
You need to be profiting off of them.
00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:14.919
And so you have to be so intentional about the numbers and you have to know, and not just like what's possible now, because and I think that's the biggest mistake I see people make if they're choosing numbers to pay their people based off of their very first hire.
00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:22.200
And it's like, okay, my expenses are so low right now, like I can absolutely pay this person, like, even if we're talking like a split, like a 70% split.
00:14:22.279 --> 00:14:26.919
And I'm like, you need to think about at scale when you are at a bigger practice.
00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:29.720
Can you still afford to pay all of your therapists 70%?
00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:35.960
No, because your expenses are gonna increase, taxes are gonna increase, just expenses that come through the door that people don't realize.
00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:48.440
And so you have to be really smart about where you're trying to get to, what your numbers are, and then also I highly recommend like working with a coach, working with somebody who can really help who's been there before.
00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:57.639
And so they've made the mistakes and they've made the financial mistakes to be able to help you navigate it so that you're not bleeding money as much as possible.
00:14:57.879 --> 00:14:58.840
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:58.919 --> 00:14:59.639
Oh my gosh.
00:14:59.799 --> 00:15:03.960
I just feel like this is a stereotype, but therapist in general, I don't know, maybe it's just me.
00:15:04.120 --> 00:15:05.320
I just jump into stuff.
00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:10.200
I don't look at I rarely, rarely look at the numbers first.
00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:16.360
I have a business manager that reels me back in, you know, and I coaches do this too.
00:15:16.680 --> 00:15:19.000
But I mean, I am so bad about that.
00:15:19.159 --> 00:15:22.440
I will just be like, oh, I think I oh, somebody else wants to work for me.
00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:26.440
Okay, let me hire like six people and then I'm paying out like$20,000.
00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:28.360
It's like, what are you doing?
00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:29.639
This doesn't make any sense.
00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:31.000
He didn't think this through.
00:15:31.159 --> 00:15:34.039
I'm much better now, but I do have stories like that.
00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:34.680
Yes.
00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:36.519
So I really like that advice.
00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:40.919
First of all, it's totally based on location and how many and your expenses, your overhead.
00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:41.720
Do you have an office?
00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:42.840
Are you well telehealth?
00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:45.480
Like, I'm sure all of those factors go into it.
00:15:45.799 --> 00:15:47.799
So never start with a salary.
00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:48.759
Great advice.
00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:52.519
And I could see, like, you don't even know a person's work ethic.
00:15:52.680 --> 00:15:53.720
I don't have a group practice.
00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:57.639
I like totally thought about it years ago, and then I was like, I just don't feel like I could do that.
00:15:57.879 --> 00:16:03.720
But I could see, and I have a friend that has one, and she hires people, and she's just like, their work ethic sucks.
00:16:03.799 --> 00:16:06.759
They only want to see like three klights a day, you know, this whole thing.
00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:11.560
So I'm like, if you're paying a salary, you're a doc.
00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:13.480
You don't know like the person well.
00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:14.919
So I really like that.
00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:16.200
Don't start that way.
00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:17.480
I think that's smart advice.
00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:21.480
So, do you always recommend like a split based on everything we talked about?
00:16:21.639 --> 00:16:26.279
Or so it's interesting because that's how I started as was with the split.
00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:31.799
And then I quickly realized that like payroll was becoming really complicated because we do take insurance.
00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:39.960
And so navigating all the different codes and everything, it became really convoluted and insurance was taking or not insurance, payroll was taking a really long time.
00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:43.240
And so I then switched to just a flat rate.
00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:47.960
I think what was kind of nice about the path that I took was the split works.
00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:56.039
I do recommend a split in certain situations because you know that you're only paying somebody based on the income you're actually bringing in.
00:16:56.200 --> 00:17:02.919
And so you know you're not gonna ever bleed money, and so that's where a split is really helpful, especially starting out.
00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:16.359
But then I liked having that foundation to then move into the flat rate because I knew, okay, like I see what our pathways with insurance, how quickly we're getting paid, how many claims are like there's an issue with, right?
00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:17.720
So that we're not getting the payment.
00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:34.200
And so I was able to set a flat rate amount that managed all of the different rates we had and all of the different incomes and when the payments were coming and things like that, so that I again wasn't bleeding money because I think a lot of times when people set a flat rate from the jump, sometimes they set it too high, right?
00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:37.960
And then you're you have to pay them no matter what, and like you should pay.
00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:46.359
I mean, I paid my people whether or not we got reimbursed by insurance, because obviously, like if you don't, people are probably gonna leave, right?
00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:48.599
And so there's certain things there that you have to navigate.
00:17:49.000 --> 00:17:54.120
I would definitely recommend either a split or a flat rate, but if you're gonna set a flat rate, you need to know your numbers again.
00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:56.200
This is where therapists can struggle.
00:17:56.279 --> 00:18:00.839
Where it's I actually, it's funny that you were talking about feeling like, oh, I would somebody wants to work for me.
00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:01.160
Great.
00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:11.960
Because when I first, the very first time I started hiring, I had somebody who applied and I was really excited about her, and we were negotiating her rate, and she wanted to, I think she wanted to be at like 70%.
00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:14.599
Was like, okay, like I'll make it work, I'll make it work.
00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:17.799
And then she actually declined and she decided, I actually don't want to do this.
00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:20.599
And I'm so glad that she did.
00:18:20.920 --> 00:18:23.559
So glad that she did because you would have bled me dry.
00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:27.480
Yeah, like we would not have been able to sustain that pay.
00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:45.640
And then what would happen too, and this is like really helpful for therapists to know, is if you set something from the beginning, you can change it for future employees, but you need to make sure that those employees aren't talking because now, like, if if I had paid her 70% and then the next person I hired was at 60% and they talked, that would be an issue, right?
00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:53.079
And then, like, it's not only an issue for them, but you as the practice owner, you're putting yourself in like a really tough spot with like how do people now respect you?
00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:54.200
How do people trust you?
00:18:54.359 --> 00:19:03.480
All of those values that you probably want to have as the practice owner are now kind of lessening and lessening as people find these things out between each other.
00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:07.240
So oh my goodness, wow, such great advice.
00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:11.799
I guess you have a system probably in your program where you're teaching how to figure out all this stuff.
00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:12.440
That's amazing.
00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:13.160
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:13.960
Absolutely.
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:14.839
That's great.
00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:15.880
Absolutely, yeah.
00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:19.400
So, okay, so backing up a little bit and talking about values.
00:19:19.559 --> 00:19:22.359
So you're a mom of three, right?
00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:25.400
How did you hang on to your values around being a mom?
00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:28.039
And then like basically essentially a startup.
00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:36.039
How do you manage those values and stay like true to like your boundaries around being the parent you want to be, I guess, and running a business?
00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:38.120
How do you navigate that?
00:19:38.519 --> 00:19:39.160
Absolutely.
00:19:39.319 --> 00:19:41.480
I'll say when I started, I was not good at it.
00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:42.039
Okay.
00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:49.000
There was there was definitely moments where I realized I need to be more present with my kids, and I'm not.
00:19:49.240 --> 00:19:57.079
As I was going through it, I did have to check myself and I had to realize yes, you do need to have a season of puzzle and grind.
00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:03.960
And even through that season, you need to still take time away from the business so that you can be present with your kids and things like that.
00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:16.120
And so it didn't start perfectly by any means, but I was able to get to a place, and the things that really, really helped me were to people talk about like setting your hours and schedules, right?
00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:18.599
And that was not something that worked for me at all.
00:20:18.759 --> 00:20:22.120
But what did was having a physical separation, right?
00:20:22.279 --> 00:20:29.000
So, like here's where you do your work and here is where it's kid time, and those don't overlap.
00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:35.400
And so I knew that if I'm in my office, I'm going all in and I'm focusing on the work that I need to do.
00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:43.480
And if I'm not in my office, if I'm with my kids or even whatever, outside of just literally outside of the office, it's not work time.
00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:52.920
And there would be times where like that was a hard line, and I would like be on my phone and I would like see something come through and I would need to respond, and I would check in with my husband, like, hey, I need to respond to this.
00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:54.120
Can you manage it?
00:20:54.200 --> 00:20:55.799
And like then I would just walk away.
00:20:55.880 --> 00:21:02.039
But there were times that I'm somebody who I like my inbox being clear, I like to respond to things right away.
00:21:02.120 --> 00:21:12.599
Like, I don't like having notifications, but there were times that I had to work on that for myself to be like, you're with your family, and this is not an emergency, and so you just have to not respond.
00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:14.440
You just have to not respond, right?
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:15.960
And you just have to be present.
00:21:16.120 --> 00:21:20.759
And I think a lot of it too was recognizing I want both things with my kids.
00:21:20.839 --> 00:21:27.079
I want them to see me working and see me enjoy working and realize that you can have a job that you love and that you really enjoy.
00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:34.920
But then also I never want to hear them say something around like, oh, but you're always working or you're not paying attention to me, or something like that, right?
00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:43.160
And so I was really intentional that when I'm with them, I'm not checking my phone, I'm not responding to things, I'm not multitasking.
00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:45.000
It's like I'm with you and I'm with you.
00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:46.920
And then I'm working, I'm working.
00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:50.920
So I like need you to not be in this space with me at that point.
00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:51.799
It's hard though.
00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:52.599
It's really hard.
00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:53.240
I bet.
00:21:53.400 --> 00:22:02.759
Because I mean, I guess my question around that is when we say in my office, I'm in my office, did you have a physical office outside of the home, or were you doing all this telehealth for your parents?
00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:04.120
I was doing it all from home.
00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:04.759
Yeah.
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:05.640
So wow.
00:22:05.880 --> 00:22:07.000
And we do have an office space.
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:07.960
Like we're in in person.
00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:11.079
It's funny, I keep saying like we as if I'm like currently on.
00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:12.200
Even you're still there.
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:13.880
Well, you're probably not used to it yet.
00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:15.960
You're like, whoa, I sold this thing.
00:22:16.120 --> 00:22:16.920
So yeah.
00:22:17.240 --> 00:22:22.120
So the practice does have like an in person space, but I did a lot of stuff from home.
00:22:22.359 --> 00:22:27.000
Now I have my own office in my house, and we just moved recently, but at our old house, my office.
00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:29.960
Was like a desk in the corner of our guest room.
00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:31.079
Like, okay, yeah.
00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:32.839
I just had to make something work.
00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:34.839
And for the longest time, I didn't even have that.
00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:36.039
I just had my laptop.
00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:41.880
And so I would just have to be intentional about like leaving wherever like the family was to like really focus on working.
00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:43.240
Sometimes that was my bedroom.
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:44.680
Sometimes it was just the basement.
00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:48.519
It was just finding whatever space to separate myself as much as possible.
00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:49.480
Gotcha.
00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:51.160
Yeah, that's really interesting.
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:55.640
Because I could imagine you can hear the baby like in the other room faintly crying or something.
00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:58.759
And it's probably like, oh my God, I want to go take care of the baby.
00:22:59.079 --> 00:22:59.400
Yes.
00:22:59.559 --> 00:22:59.880
Yes.
00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:05.079
There were definitely moments where, especially like when I would be in the basement, because the kitchen was right above where it was.
00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:07.640
And so I would just like hear them like running around and everything.
00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:11.319
And and then, yeah, there were moments I would like hear kids fighting or crying.
00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:16.599
And it's just like, and it would make it really hard to like focus and like be so present in what I was trying to do.
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:20.519
But I again, it's like, okay, like my husband's with them, like they're okay.
00:23:20.680 --> 00:23:23.079
You know, if they needed me, like he would let me know.
00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:31.799
It's hard because like your attention, even talking about the separation, as much as I wanted my brain to also be able to like separate the two, it wasn't always possible, right?
00:23:31.880 --> 00:23:35.799
And so it's just like, how do I work through this as best as possible?
00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:37.079
And that's all you can do.
00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:38.599
Yeah, I bet.
00:23:39.079 --> 00:23:43.400
And part of your bio talks about switching the traditional roles, like with your husband and stuff.
00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:47.319
So I guess was he the one up there chasing the kids in the kitchen when you could hear them?
00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:49.559
Or like, did you hire somebody to help?
00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:50.039
Or no?
00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:52.120
Like it was my husband, yeah.
00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:54.279
We are very fortunate we have family around.
00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:58.359
So, like my parents live close by, and my husband's mom lives close by too.
00:23:58.519 --> 00:23:59.720
So we did have help from them.
00:23:59.960 --> 00:24:10.200
But yeah, it's been almost two years now that he's been home with the kids, and so it's interesting because it feels so normal, and like that just kind of really fits for both of us.
00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:14.200
Like, he absolutely loves it, and I love what I do as well.
00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:18.440
But then I'm reminded that this is not normal when I talk to other people, right?
00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:21.079
And like people will ask, Oh, what do you do?
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:22.200
What does your husband do?
00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:27.799
And when I say stay-at-home dad, they're all like you can see it on their face, like, oh, oh, okay.
00:24:28.039 --> 00:24:31.559
You know, and it's just like I actually had this, I love sharing my story.
00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:40.120
I had an experience with our pediatrician, and she was asking about kids, oh, are your kids in daycare, or are they like grandparents, or are you at home?
00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:42.839
Like, never mentioned like the possibility of my husband being home.
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:45.079
And I was like, No, actually, my husband's a stay-at-home dad.
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:46.599
I could tell she had to check herself.
00:24:46.680 --> 00:24:50.039
She was like, Oh, like, yeah, that's absolutely a possibility.
00:24:50.120 --> 00:24:51.720
I don't know why I didn't think that myself.
00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:53.799
And I was like, Yeah, I mean, that's our situation.
00:24:53.880 --> 00:24:57.000
And so those moments, I'm like, oh yeah, this isn't normal.
00:24:57.160 --> 00:25:03.559
This isn't what people typically like think of if they think somebody's gonna stay home with the kids, it's not the husband.
00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:06.599
But I mean, it works so well for us, and I'm so grateful.
00:25:06.920 --> 00:25:07.640
Does he love it?
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:12.359
Is he like, does he is he like, I wish I could get back to work, or is he like, this is awesome?
00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:13.400
Not at all.
00:25:13.559 --> 00:25:15.400
He's like so grateful for it.
00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:20.039
Yeah, he like loves it so much, which is that's really cool too, right?
00:25:20.120 --> 00:25:23.240
It's and I know for myself, I couldn't be a stay-at-home own.
00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:30.440
Like, yeah, I don't have that much patience in me, like, but for him, it works really, really well, and he really genuinely loves it.
00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:39.960
And so it's cool, it's cool for us to both kind of just fit in the roles that we're in, and not even like second guess it or not question it or like not want something different either.
00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:42.039
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing.
00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:42.759
Oh my gosh.
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:44.839
I mean, I think that's the dream, really.
00:25:45.079 --> 00:25:55.000
Retire your husband or just even the cost of like daycare or like having to take them to family or depend on family to watch the kids, like yeah, that's a huge burden for a lot of people.
00:25:55.079 --> 00:26:01.480
So, for one of you to be able to stay home based on this amazing thing you did in five years, like that is the dream.
00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:07.160
And you look so young, it's like now you got a coaching business, you know, it's just like the world is your oyster, you know?
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:08.519
It's really exciting.
00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:10.200
Yeah, congratulations.
00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:11.400
I appreciate that very cool.
00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:11.960
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:13.400
I appreciate that a lot.
00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:15.880
So, did you exit the practice completely?
00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:25.400
Like, because I've heard of people selling and they're like, Well, we want you to stay on for like a year or have a caseload or help us with policies, but are you just like totally out?
00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:28.120
And your partner stayed on, I guess, you said as well.
00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:29.000
Yes, yes, okay.
00:26:29.240 --> 00:26:30.839
So she's sold the clinical director.
00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:33.720
I wouldn't say I'm totally out, but I'm transitioning out.
00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:40.279
So there's no like stipulation on the contract that you're gonna stay on to see clients or stay on to like run anything or be a go-to person.
00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:47.960
But I obviously care very deeply for my practice, and I want my therapist to be well taken care of, and so I'm still helping with the transition.
00:26:48.039 --> 00:26:50.200
I'm helping make sure that everything is taken care of.
00:26:50.279 --> 00:27:24.200
People know who to go to for what, and that's something that I think that's the biggest challenge is like I wasn't necessarily in the practice a ton, and I wasn't people's go-to for a lot of things, but there were certain things that people would come to me for, or especially our admin, she would come to me for a lot of things, and so it's really like how do I ease this transition as much as possible so that her role doesn't feel disjointed, that she doesn't feel confused or stressed about needing the support she needs, and so I will still be the person that she can ask questions to while also slowly shifting that to the new owner.
00:27:24.599 --> 00:27:25.000
Nice.
00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:33.400
So the goal is really like within the next year that I will be completely out, I won't even have like an email associated with them or anything like that, right?
00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:38.120
But right now it's kind of like a slow transition until we get to that point.
00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:39.960
That's amazing, yeah.
00:27:40.120 --> 00:27:40.839
That's so cool.
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:41.319
Thank you.
00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:46.920
So are you gonna still see clients or are you moving fully into the coaching role and doing it?
00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:55.640
Yeah, I still have a couple clients, and I will never be somebody I I guess never say never, but for the foreseeable future, I won't be somebody to discharge clients.
00:27:55.799 --> 00:27:57.640
So I'm happy to keep seeing the clients that I have.
00:27:57.720 --> 00:27:59.559
I have so so few at this point.
00:27:59.960 --> 00:28:02.759
So I'm seeing usually it's like one or two per week.
00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:14.519
Oh, yeah that I see, but yeah, so I'm just I'm not like happy to keep seeing them and until they are like, okay, I'm ready to be, I'm ready to graduate, I'm ready to be done, but I'm happy to continue seeing them as they want.
00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:16.920
Just like natural attrition out of care.
00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:18.200
That's amazing.
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:18.759
Yeah.
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:21.720
Oh my gosh, how cool is that?
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:24.839
So tell us about the coaching program.
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:25.720
What is it?
00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:27.640
How do people find it?
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:29.480
Maybe give us a little rundown.
00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:29.799
Yeah.
00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:30.759
Yeah, absolutely.
00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:39.480
So I call it my Freedom First Group Practice Accelerator because the goal is really to scale to a practice that can run itself and that you have to work very minimally in.
00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:44.120
And so it's a three-month group coaching program, and there's a course associated with it to like really help people.
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:52.920
I literally copy and paste all the things I use in my practice into this course for people to like take into the I call it like my copy paste edit essentially.
00:28:53.160 --> 00:29:05.160
And so I really want people to like feel like they don't have to reinvent the wheel and they can just like copy things that have worked for somebody else and then edit it to really fit their vibe and what they want for their practice and all those things.
00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:06.680
So, yeah, it's a three-month program.
00:29:06.759 --> 00:29:19.400
It's designed for therapists either who are like, I am just solo, then I want to hire my first therapist, or I have some people in there who have well-established practices and are just looking for like how do I actually get my time back?
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:25.079
Because as we have chatted about here, like group practice owners, I've heard plenty say, like, I just want to burn it all to the ground.
00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:25.640
I'm done with this.
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:26.359
This is so hard.
00:29:27.720 --> 00:29:30.759
And so the goal is like, again, you have an asset.
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:32.279
You should never just walk away from it.
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:36.200
Don't ever, please, if you're listening and you have practice, don't ever burn it to the ground.
00:29:36.359 --> 00:29:40.359
There are things that you can do to kind of get it to a place where you can walk away with at least some money.
00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:44.120
Maybe it's not the best offer or something like that, but you have an asset that you're building.
00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:46.120
So yeah, so that's the program.
00:29:46.279 --> 00:29:48.120
How can people find me on Instagram?
00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:48.920
Is the best place.
00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:50.200
So my handle is Dr.
00:29:50.359 --> 00:29:51.160
Anahita Banu.
00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:53.640
So please, like, feel free to DM me.
00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:55.559
I get people in my DMs who are like, is this AI?
00:29:55.640 --> 00:29:57.000
I'm like, no, this is really me.
00:29:57.160 --> 00:29:59.640
So please, like, like chat with me.
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:01.240
I'm like happy to chat with people.
00:30:01.400 --> 00:30:02.920
And I'm getting my website up and running.
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:05.480
It is not, it's currently under construction, I'll say that.
00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:07.079
But eventually it will be up.
00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:09.960
But Instagram is just the best place for people to reach out.
00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:10.920
That's really cool.
00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:11.240
Yeah.
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:12.599
And I didn't even ask you.
00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:15.000
We always talk about technology or AI here.
00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:17.799
Is that something you were going to bring into your group practice?
00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:19.000
Or how do you feel about that?
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:21.319
Because I know a lot of therapists are all the fizz.
00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:24.120
They don't know whether they should bring it into their group or not.
00:30:24.279 --> 00:30:26.839
I just wonder what what's your take on that?
00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:29.640
I hear a lot of people, I hear both sides of it, right?
00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:31.400
And I understand both sides of it.
00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:40.680
And at the same time, I think whatever we can do to save people's time as much as possible, without, and again, this is where the values piece comes in, right?
00:30:40.759 --> 00:30:47.799
Without compromising our values, without compromising the actual care and the privacy of our clients, the better.
00:30:47.960 --> 00:31:01.400
And so if you are gonna use AI in your practice, it's being really, really intentional about whatever program or product you're using so that it is matching the values that you have.
00:31:01.720 --> 00:31:04.120
Client privacy obviously is first and foremost, right?
00:31:04.200 --> 00:31:15.319
And so it's really just ensuring that whatever platform you use, like is HIFA compliant, can respect that, even like within that, that you do your checks and balances to make sure that you feel aligned with what's happening.
00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:23.799
And and I always recommend to you as a practice owner, should try anything out first before you introduce it to your practice.
00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:31.960
If you're gonna try AI for like notes or something, like like try it yourself first, or like for me, like I would have June try as the clinical director, right?
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:39.319
Like somebody that is really invested in the practice that you trust really deeply before you just like roll it out to everybody else.
00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:40.519
Like, hey, guess what?
00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:41.480
We're using this today.
00:31:42.039 --> 00:31:42.599
Yeah.
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:51.960
You want to be able to back it up and you want to be able to say, like, I've used this, this benefited me, this is going to help you in these ways, and this is why it's safe, and this is you know, all of those things.
00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:52.920
Smart.
00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:53.880
So smart.
00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:54.680
Oh my goodness.
00:31:54.759 --> 00:31:55.640
Well, thank you today.
00:31:55.880 --> 00:31:59.240
This is just inspirational and so much great information.
00:31:59.319 --> 00:32:08.279
And I just really like the let's pause and think about every step you're gonna take intentionally before you just jump in and hire a bunch of people and think you're gonna have a group practice.
00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:09.000
Yes.
00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:12.120
Oh my gosh, please be very intentional about everything you do.
00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:14.839
I hear so many people who are like, yeah, this person wanted to work for me.
00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:15.640
So I just took them on.
00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:21.240
I'm like, you have to be like, I'm ready to scale to a group practice, not just, oh yeah, someone wants to work with me, so I'll take on it.
00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:22.279
Yeah, let's do this.
00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:23.079
That's how I do it.
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:26.120
I fly by the seat of my pants and I regret it later.
00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:28.279
Yeah, I hear that.
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:28.759
I hear that.
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:30.120
Oh, thank you so much.
00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:32.599
It was great to meet you, and thanks a lot.
00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:35.000
And you guys can find her information in the show notes too.
00:32:35.079 --> 00:32:38.440
If you want to follow her on Instagram, and eventually her website will be up.
00:32:38.759 --> 00:32:39.400
So excited.
00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:40.200
Thank you so much.
00:32:47.160 --> 00:32:52.440
Between sessions is brought to you by Barries because clinicians deserve support too.
00:32:52.759 --> 00:33:00.039
To learn how berries can help you streamline your notes, if you're stressed, and make space for what matters most, visit hayberries.com.
