Antonio Valadez & Nate Post | Building Better Engineers Through Better Leadership

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saw the quantity and the quality of the things I was doing really well at and wanted to help elevate those even further, and gave me, not, not necessarily compliments, but he had the, the checks and the receipts to show that I was doing the work, and I, I was deserving of that next step in my career,
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Hello and welcome to the Being an Engineer podcast.
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Today we're joined by Antonio "Tony" Valadez and Nate Post, two experienced medical device manufacturing leaders with a shared history in engineering leadership and mentorship.
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Tony once managed Nate and played an important role in shaping his growth as a leader.
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Today, we'll explore what great mentorship looks like, how leaders develop people authentically, and why investing in talent matters so much in engineering organizations.
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Tony and Nate, welcome to the podcast.
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Yeah, thanks.
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I'm glad to be here
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Thank you.
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All right.
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I'm, uh, especially excited for today's episode for a couple of reasons.
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One, I get to talk with my good buddy Nate again.
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He was a, a guest years ago on the podcast, and we had so much fun that we took it offline and have just become great friends outside of, uh, the podcast and, and work.
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In fact, Nate, this is Nate's third appearance now on the podcast, and I think that he is the only one with such a distinguished honor to have been on the podcast three times.
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It's really me who I'm honored to accept him for a third time here on, on the podcast.
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And then, as I mentioned in the intro, Tony, uh, was Nate's m- manager back in the day, and, uh, I, I think it's fair to say, correct me if I'm wrong, the, the sense I get is that it was more than just a manager-managee relationship.
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There was an element of, of mentor-mentee in there as well.
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And, and they're also good friends, and it… Just talking before we hit record here, it already feels like we're just three good friends who are gonna have a, a fun conversation today.
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So I'm, I'm super excited about this.
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King Green work
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All right.
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So Tony, we'll start with you and the, the first question I ask everyone on this podcast, what made you decide to become an engineer?
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Sure.
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Yeah.
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Well, once again, thank you much, uh, Aaron, for having me in your program, and thank you, Nate, for, you know, establishing this great connection.
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So looking forward to a good, good conversation.
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Um, so definitely I, I think I had a very positive influence, uh, within my family to actually pursue the engineering side of things in academia.
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Uh, through my mom's side, one of his, uh, brothers, my uncle, uh, he… I have to give him all the credit, to be honest.
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He pretty much showed me and my older brother good-- a good sense of what the engine-engineering industry looked like when I was as young as in high school.
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Uh, he had already established a good professional career on his own.
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Um, he ended up, um, as a site director of a manufacturing site in El Paso, Texas area the longest time.
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And, um, I had the privilege to actually visit some of the sites that he, uh, managed got a first exposure very early in my, um, young years on what a industry, a manufacturing industry look like, you know?
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And, and that subsequently just grew in me about how can I, uh, uh, develop my own career as a professional on it.
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And through his mentorship, um, I also started looking into, you know, how can I be of an influence on positively, you know, having an impact on the industry itself.
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So definitely all the credit to my uncle and definitely my parents, you know.
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They pretty much supported me on the decision and whatnot, but once I cleared my path, I knew I, I really wanna become an engineer
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You know, I think that's the most common answer I hear is that there was influence, uh, from a family member, whether it was intentional or, or not.
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And it, it makes me curious.
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I don't know what the answer is, but I, I'd be curious to know if, like, other professions are the same way.
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You know, does, like, a family of doctors beget more doctors?
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Does a family of accountants beget more accountants?
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But certainly, uh, that has been the most popular answer I've heard for that question is I had a family member, a brother, a father, an uncle who, uh, who was an engineer.
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So, all right.
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Um, so we talked a little bit about the fact that the two of you have a, uh, a previous relationship where you worked together at a, at a company.
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And may-nay-maybe you can, um, put some color around that where, uh, I, I don't know if you can say where you worked, so you don't need to say that part if you don't want to.
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But what,
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for now.
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Uh, perfect.
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Yeah, yeah.
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What, uh, w-what was the work environment and, and how did you first get to know Tony?
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And, like, at what point did you realize, "Oh, this guy really knows a lot about leadership, and I'd love to learn more from him"?
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Yeah.
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So we started off at, like, say, company A together, and we were both in the trenches working on, products that were next to each other physically within, like, a clean room space.
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And so we would, uh, occasionally, like, bounce ideas off of each other.
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We would share leadership at times, so we'd be in similar meetings and rooms together when it was more of a higher level.
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And then I felt like we were both going through fires at similar times for different issues on the products that we were supporting, and so naturally started just communicating like: "Hey, what, what's your war zone look like today?" And, you know, I'd share what mine looks like today.
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And that, that just kind of grew from there.
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And has a very strong Lean background, so we started talking about continuous improvement and process flow.
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and I, I'm a passionate person about continuous improvement and Lean.
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Um, you know, I have multiple Lean black belts to, to prove my passion, and was constantly learning from him and what he's going through just a few feet away from me and how could I apply that with my team and the lines that I was on and supporting.
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So I think that's kind of how our, our friendship mutual respect started growing was, was in those environments.
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So I, I may have got this part wrong.
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Apologies.
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Uh, was there, was, was Tony your manager at some point, or were you just working in, like, adjacent lines?
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at some point, yes.
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So
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Okay
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company together, we were interacting as, uh, uh, just colleagues.
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Uh, later in life, um, he had switched to a different company.
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just happened to go out to lunch together, and he's looking for some help.
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And he saw the abilities in me and said: "Hey, you know, I…" He didn't really solicit me to apply for anything.
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He was just like, "There's opportunities here." So, so I took it upon myself to, to check out this potential opportunity.
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And I, I credit him.
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There was a panel of people I had to meet with, right?
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So it didn't ride or die with Tony.
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There's a process.
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But I, I do attribute Tony for letting me know that opportunities, uh, occur outside of my normal nine to five, not that he solicited me to apply.
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so yeah.
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So went through that process, and I got hired on at this next company, and I was directly reporting to Antonio.
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So that's where I had the opportunity to go from, you know, colleagues working side by side in the trenches on similar products, similar clean room space, similar business unit, all those things, and now apply it in a new space at a new company where I felt the stakes were even a little bit higher because we went from sustaining products to, like, now in an environment we were in, not only were we trying to sustain some things that were already out there, but we were also trying to take the next greatest product from development all the way through commercialization.
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And that's where I had the opportunity to be a R&D pilot operations leader, um, under his, uh, jurisdiction, his leadership, and he had not only the, the technical MEs reporting to him, he had myself, my operations team, and all of my technicians.
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Um, and just to put a little color here, my team alone reporting to me would get up to a hundred and twenty in size in my org, and that all rolled into him, plus his technical engineering staff that reported into him.
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So it was quite, quite the beast that we were managing and na-navigating together
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You mentioned that
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huh?
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Sorry, Aaron.
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I'll walk down memory lane here.
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Yeah.
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Uh, Nate, you mentioned that, um, uh, in between that transition from company A to company B, you and Tony went out to lunch and, and he had recognized some, uh, behaviors or attributes in you, and he thought, like, "We could really use those skills." I'm curious, did you recognize those things in yourself at the time, or, or was Tony someone who helped you see some of these, uh, skills that you had?
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Um, Tony's one of those people in my life that sees some things in me that I'm, like, my worst critic on, right?
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Um, I feel like I'm, I'm taught through the annual review cycle to focus on these areas of development, and I forget about the areas I'm really crushing at, at life, right?
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And I think we all have those things we're crushing it at, right?
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And we all have those things we could develop.
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saw the quantity and the quality of the things I was doing really well at and wanted to help elevate those even further, and gave me, not, not necessarily compliments, but he had the, the checks and the receipts to show that I was doing the work, and I, I was deserving of that next step in my career, right?
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So Tony, I think that's a, a really, um, unique skill set that, that maybe goes overlooked itself, the ability to see in others what they don't see themselves necessarily.
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Do you remember, and this doesn't necessarily need to be specific to Nate, I'm sure this applies to m- many other individuals that you've worked with over the years as well.
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But how, how was it that you, like, extracted the, uh, uh, the, the insight you had into Nate and, and others' abilities?
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How does that work for you internally?
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Like, is that, do you take time out of your schedule every week to intentionally think about, all right, here are the things this person does well?
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Or, or does it kind of just occur to you over time?
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Yeah, that's a great question, Erin.
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I, I think, um, uh, uh, I don't have a system in place, to be honest.
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I think I, I have to be honest, um, it's, it's more intuitive in my end.
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I also have to recognize that I had a very good, uh, positive influence when it came to understanding what leadership Very early in my career, I had the privilege of working with very good management, uh, I think the years, very early, and, and that to me made a great impact on not only helping me grow as a professional, but understanding what leadership, uh, could entitle, you know?
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Um, and I think through, uh, being intuitive, being able to grasp, you know, good practices, being able to understand how can you influence in multiple ways the ability of somebody to become successful in their work as a professional, uh, that started growing in me.
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Um, and when I started having the opportunity to actually apply those briefly skills, you know, from just interacting with production personnel, technicians who reported to me very early in my career and when that, and how can I able to help them go to the next level, you know, empower them, having them recognize their strengths, having them be able to work on their weaknesses and so forth, that, you know, uh, boost my confidence to say, you know, I think, I think I have the ability to actually, you know, bring somebody into their next level and so forth.
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And, and to be honest, Erin, it's not something that I, uh, put my head on.
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Uh, when I saw the necessity and the opportunity, I just pulled the trigger and, and when it came to interacting with Nate, uh, that sparkled itself, um- Uh, I remember our interactions, uh, early interactions on company A, uh, quickly give me the impression that they-- that Nate had a very strong people's person, you know, profile, and that to me speaks a lot, you know?
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'Cause if you're gonna be managing people, you need to know how to treat, you know, and he was very respectful with people, very clear, very honest.
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And also some of the attributes that I, you know, will pay attention to amongst other stuff.
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Uh, but that and the environment that we're working on, uh, made a great deal when it came to be transparent on, you know, acknowledging issues properly in a very respectful manner and whatnot.
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And, and across the board, you know, I, I remember when I decided to, you know, pick Nate's brain at one point to say, "Would you be interested on going the next level?" Right?
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'cause I knew he had it in him, and it became only just polishing some of the skills that he had already just into a different scenario.
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But with the right empowerment, with the right skill sets, with the right guidance, and, and I think we had very good fun, and I'm very glad to see him now as a very successful professional in his career.
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Yeah.
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I I do wanna follow up though.
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So, uh, now I get to grill my manager, uh, my old manager and friend.
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Um, Tony, though, you, you had said something to me, uh, early on in my, my career reporting to you in, in that, in, in that leadership style where I wanna make sure we have a minute with today.
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Um, I don't remember exactly the whole day and how the whole day went, but I do remember there was a product we were supporting at company B. We were-- we were kinda down and out, right?
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It was like if we were in a American football game, you know, it's the, the end of it, the, the game.
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We're, you know, last four down-- last down, we're four yards away from the goal, and we need to do this to win, to win the game, right?
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And you came out with a, a speech within the cleanroom environment.
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Everyone was there.
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We had engineers, operators, myself, my team.
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Everyone was there.
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And you were able to rally the troops, right?
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And you did it in a way that was sincere.
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Um, you weren't claiming false things that we could or couldn't do, and the team was able to, to meet, if not exceed, the expectations you s- you set in front of us, right?
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Um, I don't know if you remember the conversation directly after.
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I waited for you.
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I pulled you aside, and I swore a little bit, and I was like,"What the heck? I wa-- How, how do I do what you just did?" Right?
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That, that was an aspiration I had.
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I was like, I I " wanna be able to present and lead like you do." And I don't know if you remember what you said to me.
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You're the only person who's ever said this to me in my career, but it was something along the lines of you were very calm, you were very, uh, cordial, and you were extremely sincere.
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And you told me that your goal for me wasn't for me to become you.
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Your goal was to polish me into the best version of me, to where I could do something like that, but I-- not to copy you, to be me.
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And if I were to try and copy you or any other leader at company A, company B, company C, and company D, I'll just fail because it'll never look like the real me.
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You're the only person who said that to me.
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There's times in my career, real fast, to give you a stark example difference, where I've been asked to fit a certain cookie cutter.
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Like, "This is the shape we need you to fit. This is the tie we need you to wear. These are the shoes we need you to wear, and this is exactly what we need you to say line for line," right?
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And there may be times where that's a necessity, but you came at it with a totally different approach that shaped me, that one conversation.
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And I'm-- And it sounds like leaders have shaped you throughout your life, even finding engineering at a, at an early age, right?
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So we may have your uncle to blame here.
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But, like, what… I wanna tap a little more into that.
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what prompted you to say that to me?
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Like, what the heck books are you reading?
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What gurus are you talking to?
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'Cause this isn't commonplace that I see in the environments I work in.
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Yeah, no, and thank you.
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I, I really appreciate, uh, Nate, that you recognize that, and, and I'm very glad that that had a very positive, uh, impact, uh, which I saw throughout your development piece for the remaining of our timeline.
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And that end, Uh, I, I kinda have glanced at the conversation, to be honest with you, and I had a multiple conversation of the same nature.
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I think I'm, I'm sure there were multiple in, in different and, and very stressful environments.
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Um, but I-- to be honest, one of the things that I, that I think I, I enjoy the most is right in the middle of the storm, right?
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Is, in my opinion, one of the best opportunities where the leadership can truly step in have the better impact on their people.
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And, and that was a great example.
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You know, I, I remember we had a lot of things on our plate.
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Things were not moving in the right direction and whatnot, so people were already scrambling and, and'cause we needed to deliver, right?
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And those, in my mind, those are the best timings to actually people recognize, you know, the talent that they have, the true positive influence that can make when they allow themselves to, you know, pause and say, "You know what?
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We can do this," right?
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in, in that case, uh, having the chance to actually, uh, clear up your mind and understand, you know, listen, I'm, I'm very proud that you see me as an opportunity to guide and exhibit something that you can, that you can find useful.
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but there's a reason why we picked you over because you can provide something else on top of that, right?
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And, I remember, um, um, I'm sure both of you have seen, you know, and read multiple leadership type of books and whatnot, and there's, uh, occasional leadership, there's, you know, uh, troublesome leadership and whatnot.
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And, if you remember, Nate, uh, back in those days, um, team itself had very, poor support before you came in.
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were not… They, they really lacked in leadership, uh, by the time you came in, uh, for different reasons and so forth.
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some of the things that I saw in you is that positive energy that you bring to the table, right?
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So rather than discourage you to not follow something, it's pretty much giving you the opportunity to understand this is something that you're very good, you know, and I can see it.
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So just go ahead and make that happen'cause samples of people like me, like other leaders that were working around you, and just shape your own because you are building that piece and you're creating your own footprint, and people are gonna recognize that in you.
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And, and 'cause I, I was given that opportunity myself, you know?
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And like I said, I, I can only speak about the good, how lucky I was to actually have good leaders above me most of the time.
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Yeah most of the time.
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be honest, most of the time, right?
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But I, I took even, even from those leaders where I didn't saw myself, you know, represented, I also took a lot of learning, and I was able to actually build up my own judgment, my own ways of making decisions, my own way of influence and so forth.
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but having the ability to, like I said, under the storm- Take a pause have somebody recognize how talented that person is to actually make a difference under those conditions, that to me is one of the best opportunities ever to actually have that person see, you know, yes, we-- you can make it, but that's the reason why you're here.
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That's why I brought you over, right?
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And man, you never disappointed, Nate.
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I, and I thought we, we, we went through very rough battles.
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yeah.
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We, actually struggled during that, but we always saw the end of the light, you know?
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And, and, and those, those are great, great experiences, man.
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Yeah
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Well
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So you've had some really good leadership early on in your career is what you attribute, 'cause
00:20:44.836 --> 00:20:45.065
Oh,
00:20:45.269 --> 00:20:45.619
that
00:20:45.846 --> 00:20:46.315
Yeah
00:20:46.500 --> 00:20:54.629
unfort- what you've done for me in, in that one instance alone is not natural for what I've seen in my career and when times are rough, right?
00:20:55.699 --> 00:21:00.319
Right Right And like I said you know uh even even after we parked
00:21:01.176 --> 00:21:02.576
Угу
00:21:03.459 --> 00:22:52.609
had other experiences uh from a leadership perspective and so forth um uh both ways you know Continue influencing but also seeing you know the the the not so encouraging way of doing things and whatnot And and that to me is you know it's part of the learning and not this is not just limited to an industry This is life right How can you influence a person's ability to recognize that that person has the right skills and whatever they have we can maximize it by you know empowering by having a clear ability to make the right decisions and and understand the impact of their decisions the impact of them influencing others and whatnot you don't get that by reading a book or going to a training In my opinion in my own book it's a daytoday interaction You know it's have them understand why you're here and and not just applauding It's also if you remind If you if you go back to some of those days it's it's it's identify what's not working as well but quickly jumping into it right In the right way with with the right positive influencing and whatnot And and I saw you doing the same stuff with your people and then your people doing it with their people and whatnot And and that to me was a great great um opportunity to see how when we establish a good communication system when we have uh a good honesty way of going back and forth of of presenting the the goods and the bads and when adding transparency right From a leadership perspective it made my life very easy honestly And and I can always And I think we saw it and and and we spoke to each other in that way says we enjoy our time not just because manage different situations but we understood each other and respect each other as uh as as professionals and human beings And to me that's a huge huge piece of all this
00:22:52.649 --> 00:22:54.539
Yeah, and with that came a lot of trust, right?
00:22:54.549 --> 00:23:02.549
So I, I was given rope at times to do some, some pretty cheeky things with my team where I, I could reward them in, in creative ways.
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:11.769
You know, where maybe money was a little hard at different times, there was ways to reward the team for, for going the extra mile or, or putting in way… An extra mile, but putting in way too many hours, right?
00:23:11.779 --> 00:23:15.269
And finding ways to give them a little family time or personal time.
00:23:15.299 --> 00:23:19.269
So, um, yeah, the trust and working together was, was awesome.
00:23:20.365 --> 00:23:20.846
Exactly
00:23:21.150 --> 00:23:30.110
One, one of the words that comes to mind that I don't think I've heard explicitly stated, uh, as I listen to the two of you talk about leadership is authenticity.
00:23:30.520 --> 00:23:42.780
And I, I wonder, um, Nate, you mentioned, uh, a time, I guess, when you were asked to lead but you had to fit a, a certain shape, right?
00:23:42.890 --> 00:23:46.370
L- wear a certain tie or fit into a certain cookie cutter shape.
00:23:47.040 --> 00:23:59.740
To what extent is it possible to truly be a leader if you're not allowed, or maybe you don't have the psychological safety established to be authentic?
00:24:00.425 --> 00:24:04.975
Yeah, I, I think you're only getting a percentage of the person's true talent and capabilities.
00:24:05.065 --> 00:24:16.065
Um, it's like, a hose and you're putting a kink in it where, yeah, I would like some fluid coming out of this hose to wash my car or fill this bucket, or if we're talking med device, coat this product, right?
00:24:16.205 --> 00:24:18.285
Um, the hydrophilic coating comes to mind.
00:24:18.635 --> 00:24:20.865
Oh, some war stories in the past.
00:24:21.765 --> 00:24:28.505
until you can actually open that hose and open that bucket to get its full flow and its full potential, you're never gonna know what that person can do
00:24:31.326 --> 00:24:34.317
Feel like I have a unique opportunity here, and I have to take it.
00:24:34.336 --> 00:24:41.176
I have two great leaders right in front of me, and I would love to stress test an idea that, that I've had.
00:24:41.446 --> 00:24:49.686
This is a definition that I've come up with for, for what a leader is, and maybe the two of you have your own concise definitions that, that you use.
00:24:49.946 --> 00:24:58.916
The definition that, that I have come up with over just the past year really for a leader is, uh, a leader is a guide who loves you.
00:24:59.406 --> 00:25:00.796
So there are two parts to that.
00:25:00.856 --> 00:25:09.166
A guide, meaning this person has some knowledge or wisdom that can take you from where you are to some place that's better, right?
00:25:09.196 --> 00:25:10.136
He can guide you.
00:25:10.156 --> 00:25:11.026
She can guide you.
00:25:11.296 --> 00:25:18.076
And then who loves you, who, who actually cares, who genuinely, genuinely cares about you as a person.
00:25:18.366 --> 00:25:34.586
And to me, I, I think to myself, if, if a leader, uh, an, an alleged leader does not have those two elements, the, the wisdom to guide you from where you are to someplace better and, and genuine care and, and love for you, then to me, that person does not meet my definition of a leader.
00:25:34.836 --> 00:25:44.536
And, and I would love to just spitball a little bit and, and hear your reactions to that and stress test that a little bit because this is, uh, to me, it, it, it makes total sense.
00:25:44.557 --> 00:25:51.626
But, but I would love to hear what two other very experienced, um, successful leaders have to think about this definition.
00:25:54.705 --> 00:25:54.765
God nat
00:25:56.051 --> 00:25:56.221
Sure.
00:25:56.221 --> 00:25:59.442
I'll, I'll go first, and then we'll, we'll cap it off with a real mentor here.
00:25:59.771 --> 00:26:02.721
But when you're talking about that, I, I think of the word mentor, right?
00:26:02.761 --> 00:26:09.211
A leader to me is like a mentor, a real leader, 'cause they're here to foster, grow, and cultivate the next generation of leadership, right?
00:26:09.631 --> 00:26:24.371
At a time of my career, um, there was a supervisor reporting to me, and my aspiration was for him to eventually become my boss, and I could retire reporting to him because then I know I set up, um, this company and our generation with the next best leader.
00:26:24.451 --> 00:26:26.551
So I haven't heard of it.
00:26:26.551 --> 00:26:34.761
I, I… You and I have chatted offline before, um, so I, I, I have a, a preview to this a little bit, um, but I haven't thought about it in depth.
00:26:35.111 --> 00:26:38.861
I-- putting me on the spot, I think you're onto something.
00:26:39.192 --> 00:27:26.671
I think that word love, I, hate to put my corporate hat on, corporate Carl is what I call him.
00:27:27.031 --> 00:27:28.271
Um, I think that word in
00:27:28.552 --> 00:27:29.452
Corporate Carl.
00:27:29.571 --> 00:27:31.341
Yeah, that's what I, that's what I call him.
00:27:31.731 --> 00:27:39.101
Um, I think in, in the, the corporate sense at times that, that word can maybe, um, look like favoritism, right?
00:27:39.241 --> 00:27:44.011
Um, so I, I think maybe soften the blow but still keep the intent there, right?
00:27:44.051 --> 00:27:47.521
And not look like favoritism and look like true empathy and intent.
00:27:47.981 --> 00:27:50.971
Um, but yeah, I think you're onto something really special.
00:27:51.061 --> 00:28:01.681
And I think my best mentors, whether they're officially branded a mentor or not, have just even led me that way, whether they were my direct manager or someone I've interacted with my-- in my life
00:28:05.169 --> 00:28:29.587
Right Um I that's a that's a good that's a good question and and you know the perspective you're bringing into the table Aaron with you know uh should I expect uh The leader to show me love in in whatever way that implies You know I I think now that I'm thinking on it particularly I think I'm gonna slightly disagree
00:28:30.006 --> 00:28:30.356
Great.
00:28:30.446 --> 00:28:31.056
Let's hear it.
00:28:31.286 --> 00:28:31.616
Yeah
00:28:31.997 --> 00:32:24.799
Um I think there's different factors around how a person could truly show appreciation and expect appreciation backwards right Uh love to think that my leader loves me and hence is gonna show me uh the right way of doing things is gonna guide me is gonna give the right corrections And when And that to me could be perceived as you know that's that's that's why I have that connection with him because this is the type of I wanna put a love between I perceive a good manager should be and why not Um however I think um and I'm gonna bring a factor right now which I think both of you guys could agree or disagree uh is the generational factor right My generation was exposed to a way of perceiving good leadership I enjoy being corrected I enjoy being told how not to do things I enjoy being shown how I have to go back and understand my decisionmaking process I enjoy asked to expose and go back and understand that that was not the right way of doing things and so forth But that's how my generation could have been Now you have to understand the background on how this generation of engineers have grown and how society have the standards for them to receive feedback And I think that's the key word is is how you provide that feedback how you understand the background of a person truly send the right message at the right time for the right thing Just to give you an example um having somebody understand that they made a wrong decision could have a strong implication on their ability to you know perceive me as a good leader right Because the background of that person could be in a way that they were never shown that they make right decisions They were just shown that there's decisions as a whole and you are entitled to you know screw up here and there right my way of presenting that for a person as an opportunity for them to become a better engineer that's how I think I can provide that person the right influence and why not Whether that person perceive it as love and why not you know that could be you know uh a controversial thing to do But but to me it's it's more about my The right uh uh tempo the right way for me to pr to to provide the feedback in a way that the person can truly understand not being discouraged I'm not being told that I'm a bad engineer when I cause you know we are humans and I have problems you have problems and and the bad timing could signify you know somebody getting discouraged But I think a a good leader's ability to encourage and use that momentum for that person to acknowledge you know this is the right time for you to learn take the right level take the next decision and so forth I think uh not sure if I discourage myself right now the love terminology but but I think uh that's why I said I kinda disagree because to me it's more about my way of providing that feedback and but it's a person to person I remember when I provided feedback to Nate uh I did it in a different way than how I provide to other leaders right And I need to understand Nate personality for him to acknowledge that I'm actually trying to have him recognize opportunities for him to be better that I can tell that I will never do it the same way for somebody that has a total different personality a total different uh background And that's how I modulate myself around those conditions allow me to you know become in my perspective um a better leader right Per se
00:32:25.015 --> 00:32:25.345
Yeah.
00:32:25.355 --> 00:32:32.401
So my, my question then, Tony, is, uh What about, um, the guidance part, right?
00:32:32.441 --> 00:32:40.021
'Cause I think Aaron started off with, you know, guiding us, you know, people along their path, and then the follow-up was the love.
00:32:40.041 --> 00:32:41.231
It was the two pieces.
00:32:41.291 --> 00:32:44.591
I, I feel like I've heard you share a lot about guidance, right?
00:32:44.591 --> 00:32:47.771
So I feel like the first part you're pretty aligned with, right?
00:32:49.041 --> 00:33:03.991
Um, the, the the, second piece though, I think both of us had a little, from our, our, our corporate Carl days, um, a, a little knee-jerk reaction around maybe the intensity of what love means both for our families outside of work and, and how tight we get with others.
00:33:04.301 --> 00:33:23.681
But I think what you're doing, um, in the way you've even coached and guided me might not necessarily be the word love to you, but it is… You're taking in, in my, in my experience as being a recipient of your leadership, is you're taking in some considerations and you're right-sizing your solutions for your audience one-on-one, right?
00:33:23.961 --> 00:33:36.731
So m- might not be the right word for you to describe how you, you've helped and guide me, but there's still some level of care and concern helping me grow, in, in anyone else you've worked with, right?
00:33:37.051 --> 00:33:42.821
So I don't know, Aaron, I'm, I'm kinda summarizing here, but I feel like we both agree 100% at the beginning.
00:33:43.161 --> 00:33:47.771
But the second, we might wordsmith it a little different, uh, 'cause of our corporate experience.
00:33:48.071 --> 00:33:50.441
Um, but other…
00:33:50.556 --> 00:33:51.106
Absolutely
00:33:51.261 --> 00:33:58.181
if there is a company out there that uses love in the way they coach and mentor, hey, uh, give me a call, I would love to learn more about your company.
00:34:00.261 --> 00:34:00.531
yeah
00:34:00.626 --> 00:34:01.306
that word again.
00:34:02.046 --> 00:34:06.086
I, I really genuinely appreciate the, like, the candor.
00:34:06.136 --> 00:34:18.567
Um, uh, Tony, like you, and Nate, same with you I'm sure as well, I appreciate when people push back and say, "I don't know if that's quite right," or may- maybe you're not quite r- thinking about that the right way.
00:34:18.817 --> 00:34:21.447
Uh, so thank you for, for the candor, for sure.
00:34:21.777 --> 00:34:26.156
And, uh, I think this goes back to authenticity, right?
00:34:26.156 --> 00:34:31.527
Because I, for sure, I totally get the knee-jerk reaction to that word love.
00:34:31.547 --> 00:34:33.286
You can't say love in business.
00:34:33.317 --> 00:34:34.297
You, you can't do it.
00:34:34.576 --> 00:34:35.306
That's not right.
00:34:35.317 --> 00:34:36.677
You're, you're breaking the rules.
00:34:36.833 --> 00:34:36.933
I
00:34:37.047 --> 00:34:38.036
Yeah, you can't do that.
00:34:38.576 --> 00:34:39.967
HR is gonna give you a call.
00:34:39.967 --> 00:34:41.106
You're in trouble, Buster,
00:34:41.355 --> 00:34:41.615
Oh
00:34:41.666 --> 00:34:43.656
Corporate Carl is gonna be on your case.
00:34:43.683 --> 00:34:43.844
you.
00:34:43.947 --> 00:34:45.686
He's coming for you.
00:34:46.547 --> 00:34:47.376
Totally, right?
00:34:47.416 --> 00:34:48.626
I, I totally get it.
00:34:48.766 --> 00:34:58.356
And so, like, part of me does wanna change that definition a little bit, soften it maybe a little bit and be like, uh, okay, a leader is a guide who cares about you, right?
00:34:58.516 --> 00:35:01.717
Same, same intent, maybe not with that knee-jerk reaction.
00:35:02.126 --> 00:35:08.416
Me personally, I just feel like I need to use the word love, and, and that's… I think that's the auth- authenticity.
00:35:08.697 --> 00:35:15.206
Uh, that's my way of expressing how I authentically feel, uh, a- about that.
00:35:15.206 --> 00:35:17.257
So anyway, my, my two cents.
00:35:17.943 --> 00:35:19.003
I feel like that's from a movie.
00:35:20.967 --> 00:35:25.156
I, I listened to a podcast for a little while called Love Is Damn Good Business.
00:35:25.156 --> 00:35:26.496
I thought that was a clever title.
00:35:28.356 --> 00:35:28.717
All right.
00:35:28.976 --> 00:35:29.817
Uh, let's see.
00:35:29.876 --> 00:35:33.616
Um, so Tony, a question for you.
00:35:33.866 --> 00:35:46.336
When, when you're managing especially younger engineers, and maybe you notice some characteristic or behavior that, that, that you pick up on as, "I'm not sure that's really what we wanna be encouraging here.
00:35:46.336 --> 00:35:57.636
That might need some correction," how do you determine, like, that that is truly a behavior that needs to be corrected versus "That's just different than how I would behave, but it's not bad"?
00:35:59.446 --> 00:36:33.751
Right Um It's a casebycase situation that that goes back to being intuitive in in that perspective Um uh there's there's behaviors have to deal with how somebody manage a stressful situation per se There's behavior with somebody how do they present themselves to communicate ideas How do they believe they're acting as a good um key players within a team member environment why not So it To answer your question Erin I think I will pretty much look into what was the scenario where I detected that
00:36:33.964 --> 00:36:34.834
The context
00:36:35.261 --> 00:39:06.409
exactly And and then from that perspective understand you know what what could have done could have that behavior uh could have been differently if you know perceived this this way Um uh something that I like to uh always bring up to people within this industry is that we have to recognize that every time we step into a company we are not working in silos We are part of a team right So we have to be mindful on how to present ourselves into smalls and big groups through sharing ideas to criticizing ideas to disclosing to X and Y You are not working on your own So that has to be very good understood because um a lot of these behaviors end up being with people at least in my experience struggle with communicating uh and just to give you an example in those cases um I may have done it with Nate in a different environment and whatnot I like to say time to have the oneonones To me providing feedback as early as possible is the best opportunity ever right As soon as I recognize personally chance to you know provide a scenario not necessarily saying that something was done wrong It's just providing scenarios on how that situation could have been managed discussed approached differently that's where I like to hit to pull the trigger and say You know what What would you think Right And would you ever consider something like this Or In your perspective you think such and such could have been done differently Why And and having that person understand that it's not necessarily criticism it's not necessarily you know am I on the spot right now because something has done No It's just get advantage of the learning process that that particular event brought you Cause to me every day is different right And every interaction give us an opportunity to expose ourselves to a different learning piece Um and that's how I most of the times Erin will just pull the trigger and just pinpoint X Y and Z situations and have a person understood if if that recognized as an opportunity to improve to do something different or just to you know continue learning from that point forward Cause sometimes we we are very stubborn so we don't we just hear but we don't truly apply right So it it it it also relies on that person's ability to recognize that that's the feedback that will help you get get into the right direction
00:39:06.892 --> 00:39:07.242
Yeah
00:39:07.585 --> 00:39:13.065
And, then I've actually been on the flip side of that, where I've been the recipient of a one-on-one after a decision was made.
00:39:13.515 --> 00:39:16.455
And ha-having a great leader, right?
00:39:16.475 --> 00:39:18.045
That's what we're talking about today, leadership.
00:39:18.765 --> 00:39:26.985
leader came down s- to sit down with me and to be like, "Hey, um…" Kinda coach and walk me backwards through my decision-making process.
00:39:27.435 --> 00:39:49.355
And very quickly, I was able to show that leader why I made the decision I made, to the point they're like, literally leaned back in their chair, sunk down, and was like, "Yeah, we're done here." Like, "You, you did exactly what you should've done in this situation." But it was, it was also that leader didn't have all the information they needed to, to know I came to that conclusion and took the direction I took.
00:39:49.355 --> 00:39:55.905
So not only are those, like, one-on-ones really powerful for the direct reports that I've experienced, right?
00:39:55.905 --> 00:40:04.245
To get feedback, and I've helped coach and guide them, but it's also provided a, a way to manage up and make sure my leader knows why I'm thinking the way I'm thinking.
00:40:04.245 --> 00:40:10.655
And then from good leaders like Tony that I've had in my career, be able to get some of their logic and apply that to my day-to-day
00:40:12.567 --> 00:40:17.146
I had a guest on the show a while back, Jake Kennington, and he's also become a friend.
00:40:17.146 --> 00:40:17.886
Just a great guy.
00:40:18.096 --> 00:40:29.936
And w- one of the things he said that I remember from his interview was that, uh, we don't grow by experience, we grow by reflecting on experience.
00:40:30.326 --> 00:40:50.256
And what, what I hear the two of you saying right now is a good leader is someone who can help those under him or her reflect on their experience, not just leave them at the experience, but then guide them through, "Okay, let's talk about what happened." And he, you know, h- how did it get from A to B?
00:40:50.256 --> 00:40:52.426
And, and what do we learn from that?
00:40:52.476 --> 00:40:53.096
Um,
00:40:53.511 --> 00:40:53.641
Yeah.
00:40:54.256 --> 00:40:54.576
yeah.
00:40:54.811 --> 00:40:55.321
That's really good
00:40:55.511 --> 00:40:56.581
I agree Mmhmm
00:40:58.670 --> 00:40:59.471
Let's see.
00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:14.520
So you both talked about maybe difficult times at work when, I don't know, you were under some tight deadlines maybe, or there was a lot expected of you, and you had to, you had to crunch through it, right?
00:41:14.520 --> 00:41:21.780
Tony got up and gave this motivational speech to the crew in the clean room, and, and, and everyone got on board and g- got things done.
00:41:22.410 --> 00:41:31.190
How, how do you… It can be so easy to just focus on the operational aspects of getting things done, right?
00:41:31.201 --> 00:41:32.250
Do we have enough people?
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:33.280
Do we have enough tools?
00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:35.740
Do we have enough whatever, resources?
00:41:36.050 --> 00:41:39.180
And, and to forget about that human element.
00:41:39.180 --> 00:41:41.630
At the end of the day, it is people doing this work.
00:41:41.880 --> 00:41:57.500
What are… Do you have any practical suggestions, some, some tactical things that leaders can do to make sure that people don't get shoved down to the bottom and forgotten when you get into these, um, tight situations?
00:42:00.567 --> 00:42:01.727
I, I went first last time.
00:42:01.727 --> 00:42:02.827
Do you wanna go first this time, Tony?
00:42:03.987 --> 00:44:29.727
Yeah no I I'll I'll go first and you'll go last well let me share a couple I think that come to mind very quickly Um first of all personally like to take the uh the stress environment out of the workload like to be the one that absorb that and have them recognize that listen stay focused you know sharpen your mindset you're here to execute Um and the reason why I say that is because sometimes we all have managements right I have my own leadership and and and and they all go back and ask me about my results and why my people are not delivering so on so forth I don't want that to cascade down to the ones that are executing So I like to shield all that stress out of the group so they just stay and remain on track right Just speak to them as calmly as possible have them understand the importance of their decisionmaking process They're handson What they're doing is already contributing We're not we're not moving perhaps as fast as we could but we're gaining we're seeing the light of the tunnel So continue focusing on that and get that stress out of their mindset So that to me is key is to remind everybody the importance of what they're doing It's not just about a task It's for instance in the medical device industry it's making sure that we achieve this because we are helping lives at the end of the tunnel you know and that's key you know It's reminding people why their purpose in life is in the industry and whatever industry that could be right In this case we have been very blessed to actually be part of an industry that can change a person's life like to use that as often as possible because it does give you the perspective that don't focus just on a on a deadline Don't focus just on making sure that is being done right that that has a meaning and whatever we're delivering is gonna help somebody else improve their life at the end So clearing their mindset and making sure that they have the right perspective of things from an holistic view uh in my opinion you know helps the team realize that they can pretty much execute in the right direction with the right mindset And and of course there's gonna be a lot of and outs here and there but but constantly helping them from that perspective has given me the opportunity to see groups move in a different way
00:44:30.754 --> 00:44:30.994
I love it.
00:44:31.004 --> 00:44:34.605
So you're saying just y- y- you are kind of the barrier, right?
00:44:34.744 --> 00:44:38.704
Uh, don't pass all that stress down to those who are doing the work.
00:44:38.714 --> 00:44:45.625
You absorb that because you're right, people who are stressed and, and afraid or fearful, they're not gonna do the best work.
00:44:45.804 --> 00:44:52.294
So if you can alleviate them of that stress and, and you just… But that puts a lot of burden on you as, as the leader, right?
00:44:52.304 --> 00:44:53.254
To carry that load.
00:44:54.201 --> 00:45:20.391
Exactly Yes And I and Nate can attest that and I'll let you speak but I remember and and and when I was uh overseeing Nate and his team and when that My own manager uh he wanted to come down and and go into the cleanroom and I'll say There's no way you're coming here right Cause the sooner the sooner they see you you know everything's gonna come down and people are gonna get so stressed out So stay away You know I'll let you know when things are good for you to jump
00:45:20.535 --> 00:45:21.455
Yeah yeah
00:45:21.601 --> 00:45:22.541
situation." Right?
00:45:22.541 --> 00:45:23.851
So anyways, go ahead,
00:45:23.895 --> 00:45:25.405
Yeah, Tony had a really good filter.
00:45:25.405 --> 00:45:33.195
I think about, you know, things rolling downhill, and he would stand in front of it and lean into it, uh, for, for as long as possible, right?
00:45:33.255 --> 00:45:36.596
Um, and I, and pr- definitely appreciate that.
00:45:37.035 --> 00:45:44.645
Um, for me, you know, making sure the human element there, yeah, I've been pretty blessed to be in the med device industry for the majority of my career.
00:45:45.585 --> 00:45:52.225
you know, products that I've been a part of helping build have my own family, from diagnostics to keeping people alive.
00:45:52.495 --> 00:45:54.025
Um, so, so that's pretty amazing.
00:45:54.445 --> 00:46:05.085
How I connect with people that I work with throughout my career, whether it's through, uh, direct leadership as a manager or just pure, you know, colleague to colleague, it's-- I like to get to understand people first.
00:46:05.135 --> 00:46:07.375
They're, they're the most important thing at, at the company.
00:46:07.635 --> 00:46:16.445
Like, for the companies I've worked for so far in my career is we can't fully build these widgets, these tools, these life-saving devices without people.
00:46:16.585 --> 00:46:17.695
It takes them first.
00:46:17.995 --> 00:46:22.315
So they're of, to me, the most-- utmost importance, um, regardless of level.
00:46:22.715 --> 00:46:25.475
Uh, we all put our, you know, pants on one leg at a time, I think.
00:46:25.475 --> 00:46:26.705
I don't jump in two at a time.
00:46:26.705 --> 00:46:28.576
Sorry if, if other people do.
00:46:29.015 --> 00:46:31.045
And it's build that relationship.
00:46:31.105 --> 00:46:32.465
We all have lives outside of work.
00:46:32.505 --> 00:46:34.275
We all have different stresses and pressures.
00:46:34.705 --> 00:46:40.525
Um, and how can we come together a-after we walk through those doors and, and get something done meaningful as a team?
00:46:43.315 --> 00:46:44.215
Sorry to pass you that.
00:46:44.215 --> 00:46:44.815
Sorry, Aaron.
00:46:45.255 --> 00:46:51.395
Um, I, I, I just something quickly, 'cause, uh, what, what Nate just mentioned, not sure if you remember this, Nate.
00:46:51.826 --> 00:46:55.425
When he went his interview on company B,
00:46:55.538 --> 00:46:55.759
Ага.
00:46:57.185 --> 00:47:01.775
g- he, he got interviewed by somebody who had a very strong influence on the hiring process.
00:47:02.125 --> 00:47:09.285
Somebody, somebody, somebody very senior that had and, and grown his, his stripes in the organization.
00:47:09.465 --> 00:47:21.415
Um, and, and, uh, I asked him to, uh, interview Nate because his, his opinion was gonna be very, very positive across the board because we were looking for the right leader.
00:47:21.415 --> 00:47:26.805
So long story short, um, he only asked Nate one, one question, and that's it.
00:47:26.805 --> 00:47:29.475
And he asked him, "Tell me, Nate…" Well, do you remember that, Nate?
00:47:30.195 --> 00:47:31.365
Do, do you wanna speak, uh, do, do you
00:47:31.693 --> 00:47:32.113
go ahead.
00:47:32.113 --> 00:47:32.833
I don't remember
00:47:33.285 --> 00:47:34.235
well, he asked you.
00:47:34.835 --> 00:47:40.255
He went and, and talked to you and, and I think, uh, this person came out from the interview maybe 15 minutes.
00:47:40.255 --> 00:47:50.465
It was a brief interview and whatnot, and, and he went to my desk and he said, you know, him." and, and I, and I remember c- do, do you mind sharing how the conversation went?
00:47:50.465 --> 00:48:09.445
And he would say, "Tony, I only asked him one thing. 'Tell me what's the most important thing for you as a manager, as a leader?'" And Nate said, "People." It's exactly what the answer he provided to you and whatnot. And, and, and I remember this guy say, "Well, he heard him say something about, you know, such and such.
00:48:09.515 --> 00:48:31.815
He went to sugarcoating it," "I'll tell you, Tony, don't bring another person like that in the organization." So anyways, that only speaks about, you know, how Nate, uh, had already, you know, his own perception on what a, uh, the true asset of an organization is, and he was very truthful to his beliefs and he, you know, pretty much exposed it on an interview.
00:48:31.815 --> 00:48:32.955
So kudos to you, Nate.
00:48:33.143 --> 00:48:33.463
Sweet.
00:48:34.643 --> 00:48:35.683
Spoiler alert, I got that job.
00:48:36.332 --> 00:48:43.062
Uh, as, as we're all talking, um, a book comes to mind.
00:48:43.062 --> 00:48:51.062
There's a book called Culture Code by, uh, Daniel Coyle, I think the author is, and it's one of the best books I've ever read about culture.
00:48:51.112 --> 00:49:01.552
And he boils it down to three pillars upon which good culture is built, and they're, uh, build safety, share vulnerability, and establish purpose.
00:49:01.913 --> 00:49:08.252
And, and I feel like I've heard all three of those things discussed between the stories, uh, that, that the two of you are sharing.
00:49:08.562 --> 00:49:11.742
Um, I wonder, maybe we… Uh, could we go around the table here?
00:49:12.002 --> 00:49:19.192
And if you can think of one story that you could share that exemplifies or illustrates one of those principles.
00:49:19.192 --> 00:49:26.242
build safety, share vulnerability, and establish purpose.
00:49:27.072 --> 00:49:32.922
I think that would be educational to the audience if we could all share one story around one of those topics.
00:49:33.902 --> 00:49:35.582
I'll, I'll, I'll go first.
00:49:35.672 --> 00:49:37.392
Uh, the two of you can think a little bit.
00:49:37.852 --> 00:49:46.308
So I remember when, uh, this is sh-share vulnerability, and I've run Pipeline for seventeen years now.
00:49:46.528 --> 00:49:48.938
In the very beginning, I was the individual contributor.
00:49:48.968 --> 00:49:51.538
I was the one doing everything because it was just me.
00:49:51.978 --> 00:49:57.168
And then I started hiring people, and I needed to learn how to become a manager, and that was new for me.
00:49:57.168 --> 00:49:59.518
I hadn't done, uh, that type of work.
00:49:59.878 --> 00:50:17.958
Uh, and, uh, I, I think one of my maybe inherent skills is I'm very comfortable being vulnerable, and, and Nate you men-mentioned that, uh, people seem to want to, uh, be comfortable sharing, uh, their truths with me, and maybe that's because I'm very comfortable being vulnerable myself.
00:50:18.048 --> 00:50:26.428
So I, I was managing this, uh, very junior engineer just a year or two out of school, and we were working on a project together.
00:50:26.458 --> 00:50:30.688
I was still doing some of the design work at that point, and I had finished my design, right?
00:50:30.688 --> 00:50:35.018
Here I am, owner of the company, you know, very senior engineer at that point.
00:50:35.018 --> 00:50:42.928
It was probably, you know, ten plus years, a dozen years running Pipeline, plus the, the previous time I'd been working as an engineer at other companies.
00:50:43.259 --> 00:50:44.318
So I finished my design.
00:50:44.318 --> 00:50:44.588
Great.
00:50:44.628 --> 00:50:45.318
Good to go.
00:50:45.378 --> 00:50:46.009
It's locked in.
00:50:46.038 --> 00:50:47.738
This is ready for production.
00:50:48.088 --> 00:51:07.738
And this very junior engineer, uh, thankfully happened to look at my design and, and review it and caught what should have been an obvious mistake that I didn't see and came to me and was like, "Hey." And you could tell that, like, he wasn't really sure how he should approach me about this.
00:51:07.738 --> 00:51:13.228
A very junior engineer, owner of the company, senior engineer d-d-doing this for a long time.
00:51:13.228 --> 00:51:20.118
He said, "I, I think this… I think you may have made a mistake here." And I looked at it and I was like, "Oh, you're absolutely right.
00:51:20.398 --> 00:51:22.259
Thank you so much for catching this.
00:51:22.298 --> 00:51:23.438
You're, you're totally right.
00:51:23.488 --> 00:51:35.038
I… That was a big mistake that would have caused huge problems." And I was just very vulnerable about the fact that I'd made a big mistake, a, a, a large oversight and, and he caught it.
00:51:35.338 --> 00:51:41.408
And he told me later on that after that interaction, he's like, "Oh, okay.
00:51:41.448 --> 00:51:57.648
It's, it's okay for me to, uh, you know, bring up hard conversations or things that might be a little awkward." I felt very safe after that interaction, just being honest and, and, you know, saying what, what needed to be said, always in a respectful way, of course.
00:51:57.648 --> 00:52:07.528
But that to me was like, oh, okay, yeah, being vulnerable really does encourage the, the right behaviors and, and that's a way to help your team feel safe around you.
00:52:08.198 --> 00:52:09.608
That's That's, my story.
00:52:09.957 --> 00:52:12.487
sounds like you avoided the virgin and close with that one, right?
00:52:12.597 --> 00:52:12.937
So
00:52:14.047 --> 00:52:17.954
Ja यो न को नै?
00:52:18.007 --> 00:52:19.217
Yeah, yeah, I'll, I'll go.
00:52:19.247 --> 00:52:23.647
So, uh, a time that comes to mind, I'm gonna call out safety.
00:52:24.877 --> 00:52:28.967
and this is kinda product safety, people safety, process safety.
00:52:29.457 --> 00:52:40.307
Um, a-- I don't know, had an incident where we were having some operators with some very low yield at an operation, uh, for a certain defect.
00:52:40.987 --> 00:52:48.027
And as we go in, w-we find out that this is a non-human use, this is just development stuff, right?
00:52:48.027 --> 00:52:50.297
So no, no people were impacted in, in this story.
00:52:51.607 --> 00:52:56.538
we go in and, and we discover that they're not necessarily following all the steps in the procedure.
00:52:57.157 --> 00:53:08.047
So we're like, "Okay, we need to retrain, um, and actually follow the procedure." In doing so, we found out, as I was m-myself with the team, this isn't just-- this is a team thing here.
00:53:08.087 --> 00:53:19.057
We-- They wouldn't even have been able to perform that operation had they followed the one just prior to the letter of the procedure, because it would've made them build a bad product altogether, a completely unusable product.
00:53:19.677 --> 00:53:23.857
So, um, this is where I, I stepped up from a safety standpoint.
00:53:23.897 --> 00:53:24.887
I shut the line down.
00:53:25.297 --> 00:53:31.457
Said, "Sorry, no more." Um, my leader was actually very, uh, supportive.
00:53:32.167 --> 00:53:40.407
Um, I did get some scrutiny from an engineer in the entire-- in front of the entire cleanroom, including my staff, because I went toe-to-toe with them.
00:53:40.867 --> 00:53:47.397
Had the support of my leader and other leaders in the company who I guess really liked me in the interview process.
00:53:47.747 --> 00:54:05.467
Um, and we were able to get all the engineers to help review, revamp all the procedures, and then they supported the retrain of all the operators because there was too many operators, too many processes, too many things to do just to leave it on my supervisors and my leads.
00:54:05.827 --> 00:54:13.397
Um, and my technicians weren't available for… I think some were helping, uh, 'cause they had like a technical trainer background, but not everyone could support.
00:54:13.397 --> 00:54:16.607
Some were just equipment-based technicians and not able to train to an SOP.
00:54:17.267 --> 00:54:19.937
So it took, it took a village.
00:54:20.097 --> 00:54:21.507
There was some, there was some scrutiny.
00:54:21.507 --> 00:54:23.657
There was like one person in particular, right?
00:54:24.457 --> 00:54:28.617
we made it through, and we did what was the right thing for the business, and it's still in the patient.
00:54:28.697 --> 00:54:31.557
It, it, you know, hadn't been a commercial product, it was still in development.
00:54:32.047 --> 00:54:40.427
Um, but I, I s- I still had the full support from the people that really mattered, from a being able to get the work done standpoint.
00:54:40.647 --> 00:54:44.007
So that, that was something that stands out in my mind
00:54:44.972 --> 00:54:48.502
That must have been a, a scary decision to make, to shut down a line
00:54:49.101 --> 00:54:49.751
Yeah.
00:54:49.821 --> 00:55:01.801
Um, and one where we were really-- there had been a lot of time, money, and energy, you know, invested into developing a new product, um, something that's very new to the company, um, a new therapy that hadn't been available before.
00:55:01.801 --> 00:55:05.271
It also wasn't like a next gen. It was like first of kind for this company.
00:55:06.071 --> 00:55:10.531
Um, of people, a lot of money, a lot of talent had gone into developing this.
00:55:10.761 --> 00:55:21.481
So to, to shut it down right before we're coming to critical phase gates and be like, "Nah, we, we need to do a little bit more on the line," wasn't an easy thing.
00:55:21.611 --> 00:55:28.961
You know, i-in the wrong, in the wrong company, it could have been a CLM, you know, career limiting move despite all the real reasons to do it
00:55:30.584 --> 00:55:30.714
Wow.
00:55:30.804 --> 00:55:31.474
Great story.
00:55:31.484 --> 00:55:32.154
Thank you for sharing
00:55:32.631 --> 00:55:32.981
Yeah
00:55:34.047 --> 00:55:34.877
Yeah, no, thank you, Chet.
00:55:34.937 --> 00:55:40.387
Um, so I think I'm gonna speak about also something similar, uh, Aaron, about being vulnerable.
00:55:40.887 --> 00:55:48.677
This goes back to, uh, my early days, uh, as a group lead on, uh, uh, a small engineering team.
00:55:49.497 --> 00:55:53.797
Um, this is way, way back before I met Nate.
00:55:54.457 --> 00:56:08.947
Um, I was, uh, overseeing maybe three engineers at that point of time, young engineers and so forth, and we were working on a project to, uh, overcome a geo situation that all of a sudden spiked up very aggressively and so on and so forth.
00:56:10.127 --> 00:56:26.017
And, um, some of those engineers were pretty much, you know, taking the lead on executing X, Y, and so forth, and I was pretty much, uh, almost on a coaching type of things, overseeing my own responsibilities, but making sure that they were on top of things and whatnot.
00:56:26.777 --> 00:56:44.637
I remember one, one instance on that particular situation where, um, they were bringing, uh, information in front of me to help them make a decision and, and we went through the process and whatnot, and we decided to say, "Let's, let's make this happen," so forth.
00:56:44.647 --> 00:56:49.427
So remember they went ahead and made some changes to the process and whatnot.
00:56:49.437 --> 00:56:54.417
They pretty much the level on and said, "Just go ahead, and just everything is done," and so forth.
00:56:55.327 --> 00:57:14.219
hours after that, the, uh, line supervisor called me and said, "You know what? Things just got so worse that I had to shut down the line." And, uh, so I remember just going back to the exercise and then bringing the team back into a conference room and understand, you know, what happened.
00:57:15.429 --> 00:57:23.719
And, and one of the first things that we went through is let's go back and check the information that we had that led us to make the recommendation and make something happen.
00:57:24.529 --> 00:57:41.569
And, um, one of the engineers pretty much, uh, brought up the fact that, uh, the way that I interpreted the information that they showed me, uh, wasn't necessarily the most accurate because they ended up taking this lead this way and so forth.
00:57:42.289 --> 00:57:49.980
Uh, but the way that the engineer brought it to my attention was in a very respectful way, very concise and so forth, and it hit me.
00:57:50.039 --> 00:58:07.250
You know, I said, "Listen, uh, that's, that's, that's true. You know, I, I should have asked you guys X, Y, and Z, hence forth going this direction and why not." Um, I felt bad because I misled my team in providing the right-- sorry, in the wrong direction.
00:58:08.329 --> 00:58:17.149
I recognized the opportunity not only for me, but for everybody on that room to learn the fact that, listen, as a leader, things can happen.
00:58:17.429 --> 00:58:26.909
And if I don't put the right attention and ask the right things, you know, we can all go down and blindside ourselves and make something like what just happened with an impact to the organization.
00:58:27.730 --> 00:58:39.619
it was a good exercise to understand that, um, as leaders, we have to be mindful of how things are presented to ourselves and how we need to ask the right questions and so forth.
00:58:40.119 --> 00:58:59.369
Um, I can always argue in my defense, I was very early in my career leading people, but I took a point, a very hard point on the fact that, uh, remember from that point forward, every time I sat down with folks, and, and they can remember this, we would go through information so exhaust to make sure that we all feel comfortable.
00:58:59.599 --> 00:59:06.549
It's not about kicking the dead horse, it's making sure that you have the right information at the right time, and we all feel comfortable with the right decision.
00:59:06.569 --> 00:59:10.949
And, and that to me was a good lesson learned, and, and I, and I treasure those kind of experiences.
00:59:12.352 --> 00:59:19.102
There's such important opportunities as a leader when, when you make a mistake, right?
00:59:19.362 --> 00:59:41.302
Uh, of course, we don't want to make mistakes, but when we do, I think we have to take advantage of them as an opportunity to be vulnerable in front of our team and show our team that,"Hey, it- it's okay to make a mistake." It's not okay to try and cover up that mistake or, or pretend it didn't happen or, or reduce the significance of it, right?
00:59:41.552 --> 01:00:07.952
Um, and that just builds a, a environment of psychological safety where the whole team now says, "Oh, okay. Tony was comfortable being vulnerable, admitting maybe an oversight. Uh, Aaron admitted to me that he made this mistake, and, and now I just feel so much safer admitting my own mistakes." And, and, you know, that's, that's really how good business happens is that honesty prevails.
01:00:08.847 --> 01:00:08.897
Yeah.
01:00:09.887 --> 01:00:10.267
That's funny
01:00:11.593 --> 01:00:11.863
I agree.
01:00:11.903 --> 01:00:12.083
And totally agree.
01:00:12.083 --> 01:00:21.273
And, and something that I think you mentioned earlier, Erin, uh, I feel that having the right working culture allows people to truly enjoy that kind of activities.
01:00:21.313 --> 01:00:41.123
'Cause if y- if you feel that your leadership is creating a stressful environment, that you don't have the opportunity to be truth to an error, to, to a wrong decision, you're gonna get just nailed back and put in the spot and when that… People are not just gonna go out and, you know, be proactively learning from those experiences.
01:00:41.153 --> 01:00:44.273
'Cause they're just gonna say,"You know, listen, this is gonna just screw up my career.
01:00:44.603 --> 01:01:03.134
You know, might as well just put it in a different perspective." So the work culture that the leader creates, I think, is able to promote those kind of behaviors and those kind of, uh, um, events for people to take advantage and see them as an opportunity for growth, not necessarily to detrimental for their own performance
01:01:03.382 --> 01:01:03.782
Right.
01:01:03.902 --> 01:01:04.172
Yep.
01:01:04.592 --> 01:01:05.302
Absolutely.
01:01:06.302 --> 01:01:06.722
All right.
01:01:06.722 --> 01:01:08.512
Well, guys, this has been awesome.
01:01:08.522 --> 01:01:09.292
So much fun.
01:01:09.722 --> 01:01:11.562
Um, we'll wrap things up now.
01:01:11.562 --> 01:01:20.752
Tony, before we go, now, uh, can you talk a little bit about what, what you're doing now, and also how people can get in touch with you?
01:01:22.431 --> 01:01:23.031
Yeah, definitely.
01:01:23.031 --> 01:01:31.041
So I'm currently, um, overseeing my own company, uh, consulting-wise called, uh, Nexellence Engineering Solutions, NES.
01:01:32.331 --> 01:01:38.351
it's a company intended to provide consulting to organizations primarily in the manufacturing environment.
01:01:39.381 --> 01:01:51.231
most of my experience, uh, 30 years have been in the medical device manufacturing, but I've also providing support to other industries such as automotive, aerospace, and whatnot.
01:01:51.761 --> 01:02:02.192
So some of the things that I bring to the table to an organization is help them, uh, maximize the intellectual property they already have.
01:02:02.241 --> 01:02:17.151
And by that, I mean help them better strategize, better, um, prioritize projects particular coaching to, you know, outlining, you know, the way that they normally do things could be different.
01:02:17.561 --> 01:02:29.831
Providing training on, you know, uh, uh, practices for problem-solving, for a different-- creating a different change mentality on how to tackle situations and whatnot.
01:02:30.701 --> 01:02:41.711
Understanding best practices on a, uh, controlled environment such as medical devices and so forth, strategies for validation and whatnot.
01:02:41.711 --> 01:02:48.801
So, uh, a lot of training in my end, a lot of coaching, uh, but it all starts by understanding the issues and the necessities.
01:02:49.231 --> 01:02:50.811
Uh, and that's something that I enjoy a lot.
01:02:50.851 --> 01:02:59.442
Sometimes, uh, not necessarily ends up being an interaction with a company's leaders have been deal for me to work with them.
01:02:59.511 --> 01:03:03.621
It's, it's an experience for me to learn what's-- what else is going on in the industry.
01:03:03.891 --> 01:03:07.451
So to me, that's a win-win, and I always get the best out of that, believe me.
01:03:08.140 --> 01:03:08.701
Terrific.
01:03:08.730 --> 01:03:10.870
And, and what's the best way for people to get ahold of you?
01:03:12.384 --> 01:03:12.563
Yeah.
01:03:12.563 --> 01:03:12.923
Thank you.
01:03:12.923 --> 01:03:17.003
And so, uh, I have my website and I-I'll, I'll share it in your podcast.
01:03:17.343 --> 01:03:21.543
Uh, my website has, uh, all my contact information.
01:03:21.583 --> 01:03:32.643
You can shoot me an email directly to valadez2000@gmail.com, and I'm more than happy just to, you know, sit down and go through situation you wanna bring to the table.
01:03:32.663 --> 01:03:40.583
Doesn't necessarily have to have a business perspective, just entertaining the idea of hearing the problem, hearing the situation that they're experiencing.
01:03:40.963 --> 01:03:43.013
More than happy to present scenarios.
01:03:43.213 --> 01:03:46.493
Whether that ends up being a business in a way, that's a different story.
01:03:46.493 --> 01:03:50.063
But just, you know, sharing the experience itself, that's where it all starts.
01:03:50.742 --> 01:03:51.222
Wonderful.
01:03:51.232 --> 01:03:56.302
And we will have a link to your website in the show notes of this episode for sure.
01:03:56.712 --> 01:03:57.163
All right.
01:03:57.552 --> 01:04:02.142
All right, well, Nate, Tony, uh, so delightful talking with both of you.
01:04:02.392 --> 01:04:12.682
Um, I, I can just feel the respect that you have for one another, and what a joy it is to just experience, uh, deep respect between two friends and, and coworkers.
01:04:13.062 --> 01:04:14.562
That's what life is all about, right?
01:04:14.972 --> 01:04:17.802
Um, people loving people.
01:04:17.822 --> 01:04:19.122
There, it's that word again.
01:04:19.152 --> 01:04:20.052
You can't say it.
01:04:20.092 --> 01:04:20.892
Don't say it.
01:04:21.017 --> 01:04:21.927
I love love.
01:04:25.172 --> 01:04:30.812
All right, guys, well, thank you so much again for being, uh, on the podcast and, and spending some of your precious time with me today.
01:04:31.313 --> 01:04:32.213
Yeah, I appreciate you.
01:04:32.533 --> 01:04:35.083
Um, I will give myself a shout-out at the very end.
01:04:35.083 --> 01:04:35.693
If you're lookin', if
01:04:35.756 --> 01:04:36.396
Please
01:04:36.803 --> 01:04:39.763
to connect with Nate Post, find me on LinkedIn, Nate Post.
01:04:40.093 --> 01:04:44.573
Uh, I got a face only a mother can love and my wife, so you'll, you'll recognize this mug real quick.
01:04:44.923 --> 01:04:50.743
Um, so you can connect with me there and, uh, you'll, you'll see all the side hustles I'm into and things I love.
01:04:50.763 --> 01:04:51.103
So,
01:04:51.574 --> 01:04:55.324
And Nate, Nate has a cool side hustle that he's been doing for quite a long time.
01:04:55.334 --> 01:04:56.414
Well, I won't spoil it.
01:04:56.414 --> 01:04:59.564
You'll have to go to LinkedIn to find it, but it's worth checking out
01:04:59.821 --> 01:05:00.701
over a decade.
01:05:00.991 --> 01:05:03.491
Aaron, it's always a pleasure connecting with you.
01:05:03.661 --> 01:05:07.661
Tony, I mean, it's been a few years since I had the pleasure of reporting to you.
01:05:08.031 --> 01:05:12.491
Um, I mean, feels like we were just work just two minutes ago, right?
01:05:12.491 --> 01:05:17.871
Like, we're … Felt like we're right back in the trenches, so I appreciate your friendship and your leadership over the years.
01:05:18.291 --> 01:05:21.701
Looking forward to hearing more stories on how your consulting is going.
01:05:21.701 --> 01:05:27.801
And uh, you're, you're my camp counselor buddy, so when you're back in Utah, let's, let's go out for dinner.
01:05:28.812 --> 01:05:29.292
Done.
01:05:29.532 --> 01:05:29.952
Deal.
01:05:30.032 --> 01:05:30.352
Yeah.
01:05:30.463 --> 01:05:31.123
Thank you.
01:05:31.152 --> 01:05:31.902
All right, guys.
01:05:31.952 --> 01:05:32.252
Thanks a lot
01:05:32.453 --> 01:05:32.893
Appreciate.
01:05:32.893 --> 01:05:33.223
Thank you
01:05:33.438 --> 01:05:33.598
Uh-huh
01:05:34.093 --> 01:05:34.333
Have a nice one
01:05:34.738 --> 01:05:35.259
Yeah, you too.