Peter Schravemade: welcome to the Before the Weekend. This is going to be a special edition release and I'm delighted to have with me I'm here in Sydney actually and it is the thirtieth of July on Thursday. and I'm delighted to have back on Before the Weekend Jackie Barnes. Jackie Barnes is no stranger to before the weekend appearing on episode three at Aric May on the Gold Coast. Jackie, how are you? Welcome.
IMG 8158 - Video: welcome to the Before the Weekend. This is going to be a special edition release and I'm delighted to have with me I'm here in Sydney actually and it is the thirtieth of July on Thursday. and I'm delighted to have back on Before the Weekend Jackie Barnes. Jackie Barnes is no stranger to Before the Weekend appearing on episode three at Aric May on the Gold Coast. Jackie, how are you? Welcome. I'm Thank you for having me. Thank you for thank you for well, this is actually your venue, so thank you for having me.
Jacqui Barnes: Thank you for having me.
Peter Schravemade: Thank you for thank you for well this is actually your venue, so thank you for having me.
Ellis Taylor: Yeah.
Peter Schravemade: And Alice. I know we're gonna introduce Alice in a minute. But Jackie, last time I had you on before the weekend, we were talking about your report. You launched Real Women and Real Estate Insights report, which is an Australian first study that you designed, and wrote. And at the time I commented that I thought it was a report that should have been on the main stage of ARIC. where
IMG 8158 - Video: And Alice. I know we're gonna introduce Alice in a minute. But Jackie, last time I had you on before the weekend, we were talking about your report. You launched Real Women and Real Estate Insights report, which is an Australian first study that you designed, and wrote. And at the time I commented that I thought it was a report that should have been on the main stage of ARIC. two months later you're back and you brought someone with you. last time you told me success for
Peter Schravemade: two months later you're back and you bought someone with you. last time you told me successful. this report look like one thing. this time I'm asking whether this has sparked conversations outside of where you are. Are you hearing about
IMG 8158 - Video: this report looked like one thing. This time I'm asking whether this has sparked conversations outside of where you are, are you hearing about
Peter Schravemade: outcomes as a result of writing the report or has it gone quiet?
IMG 8158 - Video: outcomes as a result of writing the report or has it gone quiet? So
Jacqui Barnes: So
IMG 8158 - Video: I haven't really heard outcomes yet, but I am getting comments about I wanted to tell you that I I heard your report was being spoken about in a in a boardroom meeting recently and people people that I don't know and I've met and I meet them at an event or something for the first time, they've read it or heard about it. So it's definitely getting out there and
Jacqui Barnes: I haven't really heard outcomes yet, but I am getting comments about I wanted to tell you that I I heard your report was being spoken about in a in a boardroom meeting recently and people are people that I don't know and I've met and I meet them at an event or something for the first time, they've read it or heard about it. So it's definitely getting out there. And it
IMG 8158 - Video: It wasn't the Aric main stage, but obviously you you organized me to speak at Lyft a few weeks ago and that it was really, really well received in that in that setting and you know it's just still I mean it's still getting it out there, but it seems to be really well received. The feedback's really positive, really constructive. a lot of people, leaders are taking things away from it, telling me they're implementing things in their business. Now I'm waiting to find out what those things are and the outcome of those because it will
Jacqui Barnes: wasn't the ARIC main stage, but obviously you you organized for me to speak at a few weeks ago and that it was really really well received in that in that setting and you know it's just still I mean it's still getting it out there but it seems to be really well received the feedback's really positive really constructive a lot of people leaders are taking things away from it telling me they're implementing things in their business now I'm waiting to find out what those things are and the outcome of those because it will
IMG 8158 - Video: take some time for it to then have a f a follow through effect. Yeah, one of one of the things I've noticed, especially after the tech and innovation stage that you spoke on at the REIQ lift conference, almost everybody that hears the report identifies with parts of the report and they go, I can see that. I think the overriding comment I've had is it put into theory what I knew, but I hadn't actually I hadn't, you know, I hadn't seen it written down or or or read it anywhere else. But w we were already
Jacqui Barnes: take some time for it to then have a a follow-through effect.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, one of one of the things I've noticed, especially after the tech and innovation stage that you spoke on at the REIQ Lyft conference, almost everybody that hears the report identifies with parts of the report and they go, I can see that. I think the overriding comment I've had is it put into theory what I knew, but I hadn't actually I hadn't you know, I hadn't seen it written down or or or read it anywhere else. But w we were already We're already aware of it, but it it really just gives a name to the
IMG 8158 - Video: We were already aware of it, but it it really just gives a name to the It's kind of linked together
Jacqui Barnes: kind of linked together
IMG 8158 - Video: thoughts and validated that actually what we were thinking actually that's true because now it's not just my thought or opinion, there's actual evidence to support that thought or opinion.
Jacqui Barnes: thoughts and validated that actually what we were thinking, actually that's true because now it's not just my thought or opinion, there's actual evidence to support that thought or opinion.
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah, yeah, brilliant. Now, you've bought a friend. Actually it's he's Well, I bought your friend. I had him first.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, yeah, brilliant. Now, you've bought a friend. Actually it's he's I had him first.
Ellis Taylor: Well I bought your friend.
IMG 8158 - Video: with with us in the room is Alice Taylor. Alice is well you run Real Time Australia, which is a recruitment firm, but not not technically a real estate recruiter. Alice is well known for placing people into tech and a lot of the people you place are allegedly are coming out of our industry. So Alan Alice, welcome to Before the Weekend Podcast. Thank you for having me. now you tell us who you are and what you actually do, how long you've been at it and
Peter Schravemade: With with us in the room is Alice Taylor. Alice is well you run Real Time Australia, which is a recruitment firm, but not not technically a real estate recruiter. Alice is well known for placing people into tech and a lot of the people you place are allegedly are coming out of our industry. So Ali Alice, welcome to Before the Weekend Podcast. now you tell us who you are and what you actually do, how long you've been at it and
Ellis Taylor: Having me.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, how did you end up recruiting out of real estate? But let's start with the first part first.
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah, how did you end up recruiting out of real estate? But let's start with the first part first. Sure. Okay.
Ellis Taylor: Sure. Okay. yes, running real time Australia. We work with the cutting edge tech companies and and always have. Blackbird and Air Tree have named us their number one preferred talent supplier to their portfolio, which means anyone who is backed by the biggest VCs in Australia, as soon as they need to hire, they speak to me. so that means that I'm constantly looking at trends
IMG 8158 - Video: Yes, running real time Australia. We work with the cutting edge tech companies and and always have. Blackbird and Air Tree have named us their number one preferred talent supplier to their portfolio, which means anyone who is backed by the biggest VCs in Australia, as soon as they need to hire, they speak to me. so that means that I'm constantly looking at trends
Ellis Taylor: and
IMG 8158 - Video: and Themes
Ellis Taylor: themes within other industries of how to you know attract people to companies like this. sorry this industry being real estate and and tech how they intersected as well so work with a lot of prop techs work with a lot of like larger brand names like your Netflix's your you know Canvas your afterpace and stuff like that
IMG 8158 - Video: within other industries of how to, you know, attract people to companies like this. sorry, this industry being real estate, and and tech, how they intersected as well. So work with a lot of prop techs, work with a lot of like larger brand names like your Netflix's, your you know, Canvas, your afterpace and stuff like that. Yeah,
Peter Schravemade: Yeah,
IMG 8158 - Video: and obviously at Reach Australia we're happy to have you as a sponsor as well, even though we're not a blackbird yet. Sure. But
Peter Schravemade: and obviously at Reach Australia we're happy to have you as a sponsor as well, even though we're not a blackbird yet. Sure. But we'll we'll get there. One step at a top. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. w walk me through a placement. S particularly pertaining to this report, so from a real estate perspective.
IMG 8158 - Video: One step at a time. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. walk me through a placement. S particularly pertaining to this report, so from a real estate perspective. Sure.
Ellis Taylor: Sure,
IMG 8158 - Video: Okay, so a placement with my client looks like this. They come to me and say, I need to find someone to fill a gap and a lot of the time that is
Ellis Taylor: okay, so a placement with my client looks like this. They come to me and say, I need to find someone to fill a gap. and a lot of the time that is really a a a new problem which is evolving. the talent sector in Australia, like generally speaking, is extremely narrow in terms of the the most in-demand people, whether it be in
IMG 8158 - Video: really a a a new problem which is evolving. the talent sector in Australia, like generally speaking, is extremely narrow in terms of the the most in-demand people, whether it be in sales or engineering or marketing, are all in this top bracket, which means that everyone, whether it be tech or many of the industries adjacent to or outside of tech, are after the same people.
Ellis Taylor: Sales or engineering or marketing, all in this top bracket, which means that everyone, whether it be tech or many of the industries adjacent to or outside of tech, are after the same people. So
IMG 8158 - Video: So those companies are coming to me and saying, how can we get smart about finding people, you know, A competing with the the most in demand brackets, but also getting smart, doing something that we we've been following for years called talent engineering, to listen to the problem that these
Ellis Taylor: those companies are coming to me and saying, How can we get smart about finding people, you know, A, competing with the the most in demand brackets, but also getting smart, doing something that we we've been following for years called talent engineering, to listen to the problem that these
IMG 8158 - Video: companies have and think outside the box, tap into the trends that we're we're always following, tap into the data that is coming our way, and yeah, the the the
Ellis Taylor: companies have and think outside the box, tap into the trends that we we're always following, tap into the data that is coming our way. And yeah, the the a really interesting trend within that is the intersection between how
IMG 8158 - Video: really interesting trend within that is the intersection between how real estate professionals are really, really well suited for the for the tech companies, which has been something that has been I think a lot of places are a shock. Like even when I put up my hand and w meeting Jackie on on stage kind of, when I I s
Ellis Taylor: real estate professionals are really, really well suited for the for the tech companies, which has been something that has been I think a lot of places are a shock. Like even when I put up my hand and w meeting Jackie on l on stage kind of, when I I s I said, yeah, I I I really love your report. this is one of the reasons why, you know, we are actively going after your industry. I thought Jackie was gonna throw the mic at me for a second. 'Cause, you know, I think your response was, you're welcome.
IMG 8158 - Video: I said, yeah, I I really love your report. this is one of the reasons why, you know, we are actively going after your industry. I thought Jackie was gonna throw the mic at me for a second. 'Cause, you know, I think your response was, you're welcome. I I did say that actually, that was my response. Yeah, yeah. Which was, you know, justified. But I think a lot of people in the room were like
Jacqui Barnes: I I did say that actually, that was my response.
Ellis Taylor: Yeah, yeah. Which was, you know, justified. But I think a lot of people in the room were like, hang on, that's that's a problem and that's a that's that's that's something that we should be talking about and listening to.
IMG 8158 - Video: Hang on, that's that's a problem and that's a that's that's that's something that we should be talking about and listening to. Well the first thing I wanna wanna drill down a bit more into, like I am constantly educating real estate agents to be better at technology, and I would never have guessed that you were looking at real estate agents for technology jobs without being demeaning to the majority of real estate agents out there, the tech literacy levels are quite
Peter Schravemade: Well the first thing I wanna wanna drill down a bit more into, like I am constantly educating real estate agents to be better at technology and I would never have guessed that you were looking at real estate agents for technology jobs without being demeaning to the majority of real estate agents out there, the tech literacy levels are quite
IMG 8158 - Video: Low. So is is there a particular type of real estate agent you're after? Is it is how
Peter Schravemade: low. So is is there a particular type of real estate agent you're after? Is it is how how are you how does how does this work? I'm having trouble understanding
IMG 8158 - Video: how are you how does how does this work? I'm having trouble understanding. Sure, sure, sure. yeah, so what any company, especially a tech company, is after in their sales team is hustle. Technology is getting much easier to understand and work with and adopt. So when we say like a technology salesperson, that doesn't
Ellis Taylor: Sure, sure, sure. yeah, so what any company, especially a tech company, is after in their sales team is hustle. Technology is getting much easier to understand and work with and adopt. So when we say like a a technology salesperson, that doesn't
IMG 8158 - Video: mean they're coding or or or or doing anything extremely technical they're just selling the software product on and and that product is getting much more packageable
Ellis Taylor: mean they're coding or or or or doing anything extremely technical. They're just selling the software product on and and that product is getting much more more packageable.
IMG 8158 - Video: so that all we really need behind that that sale is a lot of the things that real estate professionals have which is you know the confidence the the the grit to be able to do a hundred cold calls a day presentation walk
Ellis Taylor: So that all we really need behind that that sale is a lot of the things that real estate professionals have, which is, you know, the confidence, the the the grit to be able to do a hundred cold calls a day, presentation, walking
IMG 8158 - Video: To a room and and you know getting out a deck and showing C suite that you know this solution is best for you. Like all of those soft skills that are really, really strong in
Ellis Taylor: to a room and and you know, getting out a a deck and showing C suite that, you know, this solution is best for you. Like all of those soft skills that are really, really strong in the the real estate and property industry, that's what tech is really after and and you know I'd also argue any other industry is after with their sales teams as well.
IMG 8158 - Video: the the real estate and property industry, that's what tech is really after. And and you know, I'd also argue any other industry is after with their sales teams as well. Yeah, that makes that makes complete sense to me, that side of it. Totally get that. I for one minute thought you were hiring them for technical roles.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, that makes that makes complete sense to me, that side of it. Totally get that. I for one minute thought you were h hiring them for technical roles. Jackie, just back to the report, the finding at the center of the report is the gap between the support leaders, the the gap between what the support leaders believe they provide and what the people actually experience. Yeah. in the report it's a data point. In practice, what does that gap look like inside the real estate agency?
Ellis Taylor: not yet.
IMG 8158 - Video: Okay, so yeah, no. yet. Jackie, just back to the report. the finding at the center of the report is the gap between the support leaders, the the gap between what the support leaders believe they provide and what the people actually experience. Yeah. in the report it's a data point. In practice, what does that gap look like inside the real estate agency? it's a f it's essentially it's a feeling, right? So, you know, a leader will sit there and say, you know, I'm really approachable.
Jacqui Barnes: It's a f it's essentially it's a feeling, right? So, you know, a leader will sit there and say, you know, I'm really approachable, my team know they can come to me about anything. And they might tell the new team member that they've hired that they are, and they might say to you know, they're hiring somebody saying, Yep, I'll give you all this coaching and training and all that sort of stuff. But having a once a fortnight meeting, handing over a script and dialogue Bible and a map with a highlighter and some DLs and and and someone or sign assignment.
IMG 8158 - Video: My team knows they can come to me about anything. And they might tell the new team member that they've hired that they are. And they might say to you know, they're hiring somebody saying, Yep, I'll give you all this coaching and training and all that sort of stuff. But having a once-a-fortnight meeting, handing over a script and dialogue Bible and a map with a highlighter and some DLs and so on, or assigning
Jacqui Barnes: the office friend, that's not being, that's not great leadership. And you know, there's this the gap
IMG 8158 - Video: the office friend, that's not being that's not great leadership, and you know, there's this the gap in Is that leaders believe they're providing everything they need to provide. They believe that they're approachable, but you know the report showing that within the first 12 to 24 months, women, and obviously it's women in this instance, but I don't think it's exclusive to women, are deciding whether or not they want to continue their career without ever having a conversation with this supposedly really approachable leader.
Jacqui Barnes: is that leaders believe they're providing everything they need to provide. They believe that they're approachable, but you know the report showing that within the first 12 to 24 months, women, and obviously it's women in this instance, but I don't think it's exclusive to women, are deciding whether or not they want to continue their career without ever having a conversation with this supposedly really approachable leader. And so what's happening is that we are not giving our people what it is that they need.
IMG 8158 - Video: And so what's happening is that we are not giving our people what it is that they need. And I think there's a couple of parts of it, but I think that we're not understanding that real estate and people, the world has changed. I mean, in the last 30 years it's tracked, you know, changed drastically, but even in the last five or six it's changed. In the last year it's changed. I mean, people aren't particularly nice to each other right at this moment in time either. And so I don't think that we are good enough at looking at people at
Jacqui Barnes: And I think there's a couple of parts of it, but I think that we're not understanding that real estate and people, the world has changed. I mean, in the last 30 years it's tracked, you know, changed drastically, but even in the last five or six it's changed. In the last year it's changed. I mean, people aren't particularly nice to each other right at this moment in time either. And so I don't think that we are good enough at looking at people as an individual level figuring out okay this is what I need to do to get the best out of you to help you grow and thrive
IMG 8158 - Video: an individual level, figuring out, okay, this is what I need to do to get the best out of you to help you grow and thrive.
Jacqui Barnes: we just have this box that we say that's a box you all have to fit in and even if that doesn't get the best out of you you'll at least do okay with that but the people that are only going to do okay with that where you know the small effort that we're putting in for them Ellis's clients are going to reap the benefit of that
IMG 8158 - Video: We just have this box that we say that's a box you all have to fit in. And even if that doesn't get the best out of you, you'll at least do okay with that. But the people that are only going to do okay with that, where you know, the small effort that we're putting in for them, Ellis's clients are gonna reap the benefit of that. Yeah.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah. Well in May, one of the things that you told me is you said you felt sad because the women had succeeded despite the environment that they'd actually been in. not because of it. And you
IMG 8158 - Video: Well in May, one of the things that you told me is you said you felt sad because the women had succeeded despite the environment that they'd actually been in. not because of it and you you used the term pure grit and you said what drives our performance leadership support scored seven percent and coaching scored six percent the businesses employing these women get credit for thirteen of their success. Has anyone in the industry pushed back on that number? No
Peter Schravemade: you used the term pure grit. and you said what drives our performance leadership support scored seven percent and coaching scored six percent. The businesses employing these women get credit for thirteen of their success. Has anyone in the industry push back on that number? No.
IMG 8158 - Video: one. No one's pushed back on anything at all. So we we know that that's a problem. Yeah. This is probably the other side to it. Even though those n those those numbers are quite damning. Yeah. I literally actually now that I I hadn't actually thought about it but
Jacqui Barnes: No one's pushed back on anything. Yeah.
Peter Schravemade: So we we know that that's a problem. This is probably the other side to it.
Jacqui Barnes: Yeah. I literally actually now that I I hadn't actually thought about it, but I've had not one piece of negative feedback or even constructive feedback. I've had literally one smart ass comment on a social media reel that says, What's gender bias?
IMG 8158 - Video: I've had not one piece of negative feedback or even constructive feedback. I've had literally one smart ass comment on a social media reel that says, What's gender bias?
Peter Schravemade: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
IMG 8158 - Video: a good question. Yeah. Happy happy
Jacqui Barnes: Yeah, happy happy to answer it, but yeah. so yeah, that's yeah, no no pushback whatsoever.
IMG 8158 - Video: to answer it, but yeah. so yeah, that's yeah, no no pushback whatsoever. Yeah, and
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, and
IMG 8158 - Video: I like, I mean, that's answered my next question for you is is has there been pushback? So we'll move back to Alice. like there's quite clear in the report there's a few things that diagnose most of the problem. you wrote in a manuscript that I saw that
Peter Schravemade: like I mean that's answered my next question for you is is has there been pushback? So we'll move back to Alice. like there's quite clear in the report there's a few things that diagnose most of the problem. you wrote in a manuscript that I saw that the vulnerabilities Jackie identified are the exact reasons her high performers are ready to jump ship.
IMG 8158 - Video: The vulnerabilities Jackie identified are the exact reasons her high performers are ready to jump shit. Yeah.
Ellis Taylor: Yeah.
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah. And and even in that time frame as well, like I I I know that the hardest time for a sales professional in real estate, especially women, is that first six to eighteen months. That's when I target them. Because I know if they've gone through that really hard, unsupportive 18, 24 month zone, they're
Ellis Taylor: Yeah. And and even in that time frame as well, like I I I know that the hardest time for a sales professional in real estate, especially women, is that first six to eighteen months. That's when I target them. Because I know if they've gone through that really hard, unsupportive eighteen, twenty four month zone, they're
IMG 8158 - Video: harder to get but it's easy pickings in that six to eighteen month period because of all of those things and many many more and it's it's working so well for for for for my clients and and you know tech sales teams in general because by design they offer a a very structured scalable supported environment if their product and teams aren't scalable then they're
Ellis Taylor: harder to get. But it's easy pickings in that six to eighteen month period. Because of all of those things and many, many more. And it's working so well for for my clients and and you know tech sales teams in general because by design they offer a very structured, scalable, supported environment. If their product and teams aren't scalable, then their business isn't. whereas on the real estate front, it's a it's a lot more
IMG 8158 - Video: business isn't whereas on the real estate front it's a it's a lot more individual
Ellis Taylor: individual performance focused. So I can say things like, you know, mentoring and teamwork and working with marketing teams and one on weekly one-on-ones and you know I there's there's just so many things I could tap into and have that conversation with the with those people to get their interest and they're biting. And
IMG 8158 - Video: performance focused yeah so I can say things like you know mentoring and teamwork and working with marketing teams and one on weekly one-on-ones and you know I there's there's just so many things I could tap into and have that conversation with the with those people to get their interest and they're biting. And
Jacqui Barnes: Yeah. funny thing is is that when you hear all of those things that you just write it off a lot of leaders will say but I provide that. Right. But what this but the team's not not actually experiencing the things that are allegedly provided. And I mean maybe some people do do provide it or a version of it but the version of it's not landing.
IMG 8158 - Video: funny thing is is that when you hear all of those things that you just write it off a lot of leaders will say but I provide that. Right. But what this but the team's not not actually experiencing the things that are allegedly provided. And I mean maybe some people do do provide it or a version of it but the version of it's not landing. Yeah
Peter Schravemade: Yeah,
IMG 8158 - Video: it's well it's funny as we talk through this it echoes my career. Like I was in I was in real estate. I can't say I was frustrated and I and I I don't believe I'm a female.
Peter Schravemade: it's well it's funny, as we talk through this, it echoes my career. Like I was in I was in real estate. I can't say I was frustrated and I and I I don't believe I'm a female.
IMG 8158 - Video: But which which the report was directly referencing, but obviously you've referenced that it probably happens to blogs as well. I can actually say that the support that I received from a even from a very, very early startup, like we had access to every department. We could have an open dialogue.
Peter Schravemade: But which which the report was directly referencing, but obviously you've referenced that it probably happens to blokes as well. Yeah. I can actually say that the support that I received from a even from a very, very early startup, like we had access to every department. We could have an open dialogue. because we were so nimble, we could change the direction of the company within an hour, within sometimes half of a day and then move forward. And and that was the exciting part. I think sometimes too from my perspective, real estate officers are viewed as quite inflexible and and i immovable in the direction that they that they go forward. And sometimes you have a lot of frustrations and the response is well this is the way we've always done it or this is what's handed down. So potentially when you're hiring for a
IMG 8158 - Video: Because we were so nimble, we could change the direction of the company within an hour, within sometimes half of a day, and then move forward. And that was the exciting part. I think sometimes, too, from my perspective, real estate officers are viewed as quite inflexible and and immovable in the direction that they that they go forward. And sometimes you have a lot of frustrations, and the response is, Well, this is the way we've always done it, or this is what's handed down. So potentially when you're hiring for a tech
Peter Schravemade: Tech company, that's not the case anymore where you're you're actually openly set to challenge the status quo and go, is this why we're doing things?
IMG 8158 - Video: company. That's not the case anymore where you're you're actually openly set to challenge the status quo and go, Is this why we're doing things? It's one of those if it's not broke, don't fix it type of things, but also if it's not okay, then fix it. Yeah. It's it's that type of thing, and I think something I think of a trap that leaders fall into sometimes, or maybe it's not even I don't even know if the word leader is the right word, but business owners, is they often people generally go down two pathways. They have worked for a leader that's really
Jacqui Barnes: It's one of those if it's not broke, don't fix it type of things, but also if it's not okay, then fix it. Yeah. It's it's that type of thing. And I think somet I think of a trap that leaders fall into sometimes, or maybe it's already I don't even know if the word leader's the right word, but business owners, is they often people generally go down two pathways. They have worked for a leader that's really
IMG 8158 - Video: Really, a poor leader, and they make a conscious effort to not be like that. And they want to go and put because they know that
Jacqui Barnes: a poor leader, and they make a conscious effort to not be like that. And they want to go and put because they know that.
IMG 8158 - Video: they didn't respond well to that leadership stuff, so they might put a bit of effort into developing their own. Or you get people that say, Well, that was a terrible experience. I didn't like working for a leader like that, but you know what? That's how it was for me. So that's how it's going to be for everybody that comes to work under me. And that doesn't build a good business for anyone. No.
Jacqui Barnes: they didn't respond well to that leadership stuff so they might put a bit of effort into developing their own. Or you get people that say, well, that was a terrible experience. I didn't like working for a leader like that. But you know what? That's how it was for me. So that's how it's gonna be for everybody that comes to work under me. And that doesn't build a good business for anyone. No.
IMG 8158 - Video: Ellis, you mentioned eight around the eighteen months or twelve to twenty four I I read in the the document that I've seen, but let's go eighteen months. Jackie is he taking people right at the weakest point? Is that is you read on Yeah, that's my read on it. So this bastard has figured it out. Yeah, so basically what we're doing, we're spending seventy to eighty grand a year training up really great people for Ellis.
Peter Schravemade: Alice, you mentioned eight around the eighteen months or twelve to twenty-four I I read in the the document that I've seen, but let's go, eighteen months. Jackie, is he taking people right at the weakest point? Is that is that read on it? Bastard has figured it out.
Jacqui Barnes: I think so. Yeah, that's my reiteration. Yeah, so basically what we're doing, we're spending seventy to eighty grand a year training up really great people for Ellis.
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah. And and so at that stage they would understand a lot of the operation of a real estate office, the way the a lot of the compliance, the regulation, everything.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah. And and so at that stage they would understand a lot of the operation of a real estate office, the way the a lot of the compliance, the regulation, everything
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah that have a a fair amount of sales experience behind them. Well they might not I mean their transactions may not have come to fruition at that point, but they at least they've been around it, they've observed it, they've been immersed in it, whether they've physically been responsible for it's a different story. I think it's probably really I think it's probably between month nine and eighteen months that it's probably the biggest
Peter Schravemade: in there that have a a fair amount of sales experience behind them.
Jacqui Barnes: Well, they might not I mean their transactions may not have come to fruition at that point, but they at least they've been around it, they've observed it, they've been immersed in it, whether they've physically been responsible for it's a different story. I think it's probably really I think it's probably between month nine and eighteen months that it's probably the biggest
IMG 8158 - Video: risk to the industry and the most opportune for Ellis because people will always that first six months it's very much a learning process. People are willing to generally the team member is willing to give it that six months and see how it plays out. And then they'll start to get a bit nervous between month six and month nine and think, how is this going to come together? And then if they start getting pressure, you know, from their employer and Ellis is starting to make those phone calls and they can't see that result coming yet, they might make the easy decision which is
Jacqui Barnes: risk to the industry and the most opportune for Ellis because people will always that first six months, it's very much a learning process. People are willing to generally the team member is willing to give it that six months and see how it plays out. And then they'll start to get a bit nervous between month six and month nine and think, how is this going to come together? And then if they start getting pressure, you know, from their employer and Ellis is starting to make those phone calls and they can't see that result coming yet, they might make the easy decision which is to go.
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah.
Jacqui Barnes: but what's happening is we're making decisions and putting pre like we we're not understanding that this is a two year journey for people and we're making decisions on these people at month six, nine, twelve, whatever it might be, without understanding that they're on a on a pathway and they've got to get through that pathway first. Yeah. But additionally we're not doing anything to help them on that pathway.
IMG 8158 - Video: But what's happening is we're making decisions and putting pre like we we're not understanding that this is a two year journey for people and we're making decisions on these people at month six, nine, twelve, whatever it might be, without understanding that they're on a on a pathway and they've got to get through that pathway first. Yeah. But additionally we're not doing anything to help them on that pathway. Yeah, yeah,
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, yeah, and I like I I I think that time frame's always been a bit of an issue for anyone getting into a real estate office that nine to nine to eighteen months. But I didn't realise it was as much of an an issue, especially for women, I think, in that this report's highlighted.
IMG 8158 - Video: and I like I I I think that time frame's always been a bit of an issue for anyone getting into a real estate office that nine to nine to eighteen months. But I didn't realise it was as much of an an issue, especially for women, I think, in that this report's highlighted.
Ellis Taylor: Yeah, it's probably a good idea for or good time, sorry, for me to also just give you a bit more perspective of like how recruiters who follow a talent engineering model work as well. It's not just me picking up the phone at that person's six month mark.
IMG 8158 - Video: It's probably a good idea for or good time, sorry, for me to also just give you a bit more perspective of like how recruiters who follow a talent engineering model work as well. It's not just me picking up the phone at that person's six-month mark. The use of AI in recruiting and building a talent engineering system now means that I will have multiple touch points between the six and eighteen month mark with different messages in different media, asking different questions and providing different personalized ideas and content from my clients to them. So it's not just a you know a personalized LinkedIn message that goes out and say, hey, are you not happy?
Ellis Taylor: The use of AI in recruiting and building a talent engineering system now means that I will have multiple touch points between the six and eighteen month mark with different messages in different media, asking different questions and providing different personalized ideas and content from my clients to them. So it's not just a you know a personalized LinkedIn message that goes out and say, hey, are you not happy?
IMG 8158 - Video: With your career, why don't you come and explore what a career in tech sales would look like? It's an extremely personalized, targeted system which is only going to get more and more sophisticated. So I I want to scare you. I've already
Ellis Taylor: With your career, why don't you come and explore what a a career in tech sales would look like? It's an extremely personalized, targeted system which is only going to get more and more sophisticated. So I I want to scare you because
Jacqui Barnes: I can actually picture this campaign popping up. Someone's had a bad day. They've just been read the Riot Act by not getting their call numbers or whatever. They get home, they've poured a glass of wine, they're
IMG 8158 - Video: I can actually picture this campaign popping up. Someone's had a bad day, they've just been read Riot Act by not getting their call numbers or whatever. They get home, they've poured a glass of wine, they've Doom scrolling and Ellis Ellis' Instagram post comes up. Want to transfer your sales career or thought about this or thought in a subliminal way, and you're thinking, Well, you know what? If that packs it in, I'll just call Ellis.
Jacqui Barnes: doom scrolling in El Ellis' Instagram. Wanna transfer your sales career or thought about this or thought in a subliminal way and you're thinking, Well you know what, if that packs it in I'll just call Ellis.
Ellis Taylor: comes up.
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah, and it's and it's it it's it's really really working. And and a lot of the candidates who are even saying, Hey, look, now's not the right time, but I can introduce you to two or three of my friends in the industry who are not having a great time or don't love their boss or
Ellis Taylor: Yeah, and it's and it's it it's it's really, really working and and a lot of the candidates who are even saying, Hey, look, now's not the right time, but I can introduce you to two or three of my friends in the industry who are not having a great time or don't love their boss or
IMG 8158 - Video: this or that and that's you know compounding this exodus from from
Ellis Taylor: this or that and that's you know, compounding this exodus from from estate I see, which I I I I truly do feel is only going to accelerate. Sorry again.
IMG 8158 - Video: I see, which I I I I truly do feel is only going to accelerate. Yeah. Sorry again. Interesting, interesting juxtaposition, because Jackie, you're running you're you're people in growth for a national franchise. you're recruiting people directly, well I'm maybe not directly from her.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah. Interesting interesting juxtaposition 'cause Jackie, you're running you you're you're people in growth for a national franchise. you're recruiting people directly, well, maybe not directly from the
Jacqui Barnes: It's friends close, enemies close.
IMG 8158 - Video: Friends close, enemies close than me. Yeah, and and and and I think I've already crossed that gap to the dark side. It's an interesting
Ellis Taylor: Yeah.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, and and and I and I think I've already crossed that gap to the dark side. Like it's an interesting
Ellis Taylor: So
IMG 8158 - Video: it's an interesting juxtaposition so jackie do you do you think it's fair that ellis gets like comes in and picks all the all the all the fruit like let's look fair's this really complex because it's a word right it's low hanging fruit right that's what we call
Peter Schravemade: it's interesting juxtaposition. So Jackie, do you do you think it's fair that Ellis gets like comes in and picks all the g all all the fruit? Like let's 'cause it's like it's low hanging fruit, right? That's what we call it.
Jacqui Barnes: Fares is really good.
Ellis Taylor: Yeah.
Jacqui Barnes: Fair fair implies that it's equal. Yeah. Look, do I think it's fair? It's w wildly irritating, really, to be completely to gonna be completely transparent. But if we are not going to give the people
IMG 8158 - Video: fair fair implies that it's equal yeah look do I think it's fair it's wildly irritating really to be completely to be completely transparent but if we are not going to give the people In this industry, what it is that they need to succeed when we now have the information. Well, it's kind of on us for not doing better. Well,
Jacqui Barnes: in this industry what it is that they need to succeed when we now have the information, well it's kind of on us for not doing better.
Peter Schravemade: Well, you've also said and I've gotten sight of a press release that you've got coming up that that you real estate loses talent through lazy management. So there is a there is an aspect here where it's it's not Alice's fault. Like we're u Uber wouldn't have come in if the taxi drivers were doing a wonderful job. So you know, I'm not saying El Alice is the Uber of recruitment, he could well
IMG 8158 - Video: you've also said, and I've gotten sight of a press release that you've got coming up, that that you real estate loses talent through lazy management. So there is a there is an aspect here where it's it's not Alice's fault. Like we're Uber. It is ours. Yeah, Uber wouldn't have come in if the taxi drivers were doing a wonderful job. So you know, I'm not saying Alice is the Uber of recruitment, you could be
Jacqui Barnes: It's out it is ours.
Peter Schravemade: be.
Ellis Taylor: But I
Peter Schravemade: He's he's obviously he's obviously highlighted a a distinctive area that is very beneficial for the recruitment process. so Jackie, question for you, what does a business have to give someone so that when Alice calls they don't pick up? And I mean he just mentioned that it's probably not a call that's while they're doom scrolling. But like what what do you what do you think a a defensible position looks like? We spoke about lazy management, so I'm assuming that
IMG 8158 - Video: He's obviously highlighted a distinctive area that is very beneficial for the recruitment process. so Jackie question for you what does a business have to give someone so that when Alice calls they don't pick up? And I mean he just mentioned that it's probably not a call that's while they're doom scrolling. But like what what do you what do you think a a defensible position looks like? We spoke about lazy management, so I'm assuming that you know health a healthy
Peter Schravemade: you know health a healthy
IMG 8158 - Video: culture and good management would be the start of it is there something else that
Peter Schravemade: culture and good management would be the start of it. Is there something else that
IMG 8158 - Video: yeah I think it's just I think there's a few parts to it I think one is understanding that success takes time for people some people are going to be a runaway success in six to twelve months some people it's gonna take them that first that full two years but understanding that's the time window and and when I when I talk about that time window that's talking about a sustainable relationship driven pipeline that's not just the stuff that you're lucky enough to
Jacqui Barnes: Yeah, I think it's just I think there's a few parts to it. I think one is understanding that success takes time for people. some people are gonna be a runaway success in six to twelve months. Some people it's gonna take them that first that full two years. But understanding that's the time window and and when I s when I talk about that time window, that's talking about a sustainable relationship driven pipeline. That's not just the stuff that you're lucky enough to to stumble across. but I think understanding that that is the length of time, making sure
IMG 8158 - Video: To stumble across. But I think understanding that that is the length of time, making sure
Jacqui Barnes: Sure that the team member knows that that's a length of time, knowing what does good look like as you're walking down that pathway, understanding how to get the best out of that person to help them get down that pathway as quickly as possible because it's financially challenging. You're spending money trying to get this person up to speed and successful, but it's not a lot of money that we're spending. They're they're trying to live their life as well. It's
IMG 8158 - Video: that the team member knows that that's the length of time, knowing what does good look like as you're walking down that pathway, understanding how to get the best out of that person to help them get down that pathway as quickly as possible because it's financially challenging. You're spending money trying to get this person up to speed and successful, but it's not a lot of money that we're spending. They're trying to live their life as well. financially challenging for people being on the award getting started. and so understanding all of those
Jacqui Barnes: financially challenging for people being on the award getting started. and so understanding of those things.
IMG 8158 - Video: things and then how to help that person grow and thrive and how to get the best out of them. Some people need the carrot and stick. Some people need to be ruled with an iron fist. Other people need support. Know what that is and how to drive them to that outcome. What motivates you and what motivates me are very different things. And so understanding what that is
Jacqui Barnes: things and then how to help that person grow and thrive and how to get the best out of them. Some people need the carrot and stick. Some people need to be ruled with an iron fist. Other people need support. Know what that is and how to drive them to that outcome. What motivates you and what motivates me are very different things. And so understanding what that is. we'll never be able to stop people trying to take, you know, or stop Ellis being able to take people from the industry. There will always be some. But at the end of the day our people deserve the best we want the best out of them. They deserve the best out of us in order to do that.
IMG 8158 - Video: We'll never be able to stop people trying to take you know, or stop Ellis being able to take people from the industry. There will always be some. But at the end of the day, our people deserve the best we want the best out of them. They deserve the best out of us in order to do that. Yeah. And Ellis, if if if an agency was like that, does it make it immeasurably more difficult for you to recruit? Absolutely. Yeah. Like I I get told that I'm not interested when they have a very clear path
Peter Schravemade: Yeah. And Alice, if if if an agency was like that, does it make it immeasurably more difficult for you to recruit?
Ellis Taylor: Absolutely. Yeah. Like I I get told that I'm not interested when they have a very clear path
IMG 8158 - Video: to success and a really good relationship with their team and their their boss or their manager or their leader. that's the kryptonite that you know shuts me down. Yeah. the other thing that is really really hard to you know defend against or or or really like you know
Ellis Taylor: to success and a really good relationship with their team and their their boss or their manager or their leader. that's the kryptonite that, you know, shuts me down. Yeah. the other thing that is really, really hard to you know, defend against or or or really like, you know
IMG 8158 - Video: take someone out of that position and and move across is the the feelings of of
Ellis Taylor: take someone out of that position and and move across is the the feelings of of of how they are actually
IMG 8158 - Video: of how they are actually
Ellis Taylor: valued in their team which is not tied to a a figure on a whiteboard in terms of how many calls I've made today or like how many sales I've closed this week, which again in that six to eighteen month zone, you've got very little
IMG 8158 - Video: valued in their team which is not tied to a a figure on a whiteboard in terms of how many calls I've made today or like how many sales I've closed this week which again in that six to eighteen month zone you've got very little
Ellis Taylor: Outputs really. Inputs are very very heavy, and that's what tech does really well. They set KPIs around inputs because they have a very very trackable process towards the sale
IMG 8158 - Video: outputs really inputs are very very heavy and that's what tech does really well they set KPIs around inputs because they have a very very trackable process towards the sale.
Ellis Taylor: that is said if you input in these measures, then you're going to get that output. I know that obviously exists in real estate, but it feels a lot more undervalued when it's not connected to the output.
IMG 8158 - Video: That is that if you input in these measures, then you're going to get that output. I know that obviously exists in real estate, but it feels a lot more undervalued when it's not connected to the output. It's because
Jacqui Barnes: It's because we you're right, it's value we're valuing calling
IMG 8158 - Video: we you're right, it's value we're valuing Calling a hundred people or dialing a hundred numbers or knocking on X amount of doors and booking X amount of appraisals. But what we're not valuing is that I might only need to do half of that, and I might have 50 really high quality conversations to build repeatable the opportunity to have repeatable interactions with that person, and that's not valued or measured at all. And neither is the effort that goes
Jacqui Barnes: a hundred people or dialing a hundred numbers or knocking on X amount of doors and booking X amount of appraisals. But what we're not valuing is that I might only need to do half of that and I might have 50 really high quality conversations to build repeatable the opportunity to have repeatable interactions with that person and that's not valued or measured at all. And neither is the effort that goes
IMG 8158 - Video: into doing that.
Jacqui Barnes: Mm-hmm.
IMG 8158 - Video: Years ago I went and it was a conference in the
Peter Schravemade: Years ago I went and it was a conference in the
IMG 8158 - Video: US and the first four speakers were all hype speakers, you know, the kind we're talking about they got up and they got the room super excited, they were yelling and screaming stuff at each other. They were the kind of people that would encourage the salespersons to do a cold plunge at four a. This is this is yeah, no, no, no, you know, then you go and do an hour.
Peter Schravemade: US and the first four speakers were all hype speakers, you know, the kind of talking about they got up and they got the room super excited, they were yelling and screaming stuff at each other. They were the kind of people that would encourage the salespersons to do a a cold plunge at four AM in the morning. This is this is on the yeah, no, no, no, you know, then you go and do an hour
IMG 8158 - Video: meditation on mindfulness and then you do a thousand phone calls and you you're super pumped, you've got, you know, full on music going, you've got things in front of them that say believe in yourself, your dreams will come true. You're probably looking at a Mercedes or a jet that you want to own.
Peter Schravemade: meditation on mindfulness and then you do a thousand phone calls and you you're super pumped, you've got you know full on music going, you've got things in front of them that say believe in yourself, your dreams will come true. You're probably looking at a Mercedes or a jet that you want to own. the the first four speakers were of that ilk and they were they were right into the room. The room
IMG 8158 - Video: The the first four speakers were of that ilk and they were they were right into the room. The room was so fired up I thought they were gonna kill somebody at that point. And then this diminutive lady called Sarah Kelk, I remember K A L K E from Canada. I've never seen her since that day, but she got up and obviously whoever had prepared the conference hadn't done their due diligence on her messaging. She got up and she said, I I don't know I don't know what they're talking about. Like, here are my numbers and here is the G C I though.
Peter Schravemade: We were so fired up, I thought they were gonna kill somebody at that point. And then this diminutive lady called Sarah Kelk, I remember K-A-L-K-E from Canada. I've never seen her since that day, but she got up, and obviously, whoever had prepared the conference hadn't done their due diligence on her messaging. She got up and she said, I I don't know. don't know what they're talking about. Like, here are my numbers and here is the GCI, the
IMG 8158 - Video: the commission that I make. And she put that on the board and she said, I've got three kids at home and I don't care about any of those things. My mission is getting home to my kids and spending more time with them. So I'll go for the easiest path to doing that. And I remember you know, she put forward probably the best that I've ever seen, the best female orientated plan for going and getting going out there and making sales and being being good at it. A lot of it was about her sphere of influence.
Peter Schravemade: the commission that I make. Wow. And she put that on the board and she said, I've got three kids at home. and I don't care about any of those things. My mission is getting home to my kids and spending more time with them. So I'll go for the easiest path to doing that. And I remember you know, she put forward probably the best that I've ever seen, the best female oriented plan for going and getting going out there and making sales and being being good at it. A lot of it was about her sphere of influence. Yeah.
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah. How she used to pick up people from her the the children's sports and
Peter Schravemade: How she used to pick up people from her the the children's sports and
IMG 8158 - Video: but it's a strategy and I literally spoke about that. I've got an agent that does that now, like the way that she she makes sure she's the class parent every year because in all the WhatsApp chat groups, guess what comes up every time her name goes in there? Yeah, like it's it is it is dead. It's so true. But I think the thing is though, right? Those first four speakers, they would have spoken to people in the room. There would be people that would follow that philosophy, and that's great. There's no doubt about
Peter Schravemade: For sure.
Jacqui Barnes: Strategy and I literally spoke about that. I've got an agent that does that now. Like the way that she she makes sure she's the class parent every year because in all the WhatsApp chat groups, guess what comes up every time her name goes in there? Yeah. Like it's so true. But I think the thing is though, right? Those first four speakers, they would have spoken to people in the room. There would be people that would follow that philosophy, and that's great.
Peter Schravemade: It is it is dead. There's no doubt about that.
IMG 8158 - Video: that.
Jacqui Barnes: There will also be people that follow that lady's philosophy too, but it's understanding that the thing that's gonna drive the first batch and the thing that's gonna drive the second batch are two different things. And knowing how to get the best out of each of each of them, that is a leader's responsibility and adjusting their leadership style.
IMG 8158 - Video: Will also be people that followed that lady's philosophy too, but it's understanding that the thing that's going to drive the first batch and the thing that's going to drive the second batch are two different things, and knowing how to get the best out of each of each of them that is a leader's responsibility and adjusting their leadership style to both.
Ellis Taylor: Both.
IMG 8158 - Video: Well, the thing that shocked me
Peter Schravemade: That shocked me is not the first four speakers because I'd had done a lot of conferences in the US and I'd seen that style. In fact, I'd seen those speakers deliver that same pitch multiple times. The thing that shocked me was actually having that
IMG 8158 - Video: is not the first four speakers because I'd had done a lot of conferences in the US and I'd seen that style. In fact, I'd seen those speakers deliver that same pitch multiple times. The thing that shocked me was actually having the That last message on the stage because it's not a popular one. it it it it for whatever reason, and I don't know whether it's the principles that don't like to hear it or that they're the majority of people might adhere to one rather than the other. but all of the it resonated to me because when I was
Peter Schravemade: last message on the stage because it's not a popular one. it it it it for whatever reason, and I don't know whether it's the principals that don't like to hear it or that they're the majority of people might adhere to one rather than the other. but all of the it resonated to me because when I was
IMG 8158 - Video: in real estate, all all of those principles were what I used to do to go and make sales, and I was I think I was pretty damn successful at doing it. but I wasn't doing you know these these things that I was told. I certainly wasn't.
Peter Schravemade: real estate or all of those principles were what I used to do to go and make sales and I was I think I was pretty damn successful at doing it but I wasn't doing you know these these things that I was told I certainly wasn't making a thousand calls a day so I don't like I I'm very much aware that different people you know are inspired by different things but I think our industry has a almost a tendency to go for the sensationalist or or or the repeatable that we can sort of go with
IMG 8158 - Video: And making a thousand calls a day. So I don't like I I'm very much aware that different people are inspired by different things, but I think our industry has a almost a tendency to go for the sensationalist or the repeatable that we can sort of go as
Peter Schravemade: a process and if you follow this you're more than likely due to ex succeed. But I think one of the things you've touched on in your your report is it probably doesn't it probably doesn't actually fit the box for a lot of the women that are out there.
IMG 8158 - Video: a process, and if you follow this, you're more than likely due to succeed. But I think one of the things you've touched on in your report is it probably doesn't it probably doesn't actually fit the box for a lot of the women that are out there. Yeah, and I mean look, there's men that
Jacqui Barnes: Yeah. And mean look, there's men that
IMG 8158 - Video: Would follow that philosophy as well. It's just that stereotypically mummy's generally at the school gate more than dad. Not in my household, but you know, yeah. In a lot. And you know, so and people, you know, there's lots of women that want to be a a the parent that goes to the school gate. Not me, I'm not interested, I don't want to do it, but you know,
Jacqui Barnes: would follow that philosophy as well. It's just that stereotypically mummy's generally at the school gate more than dad. Not in my household, but you know. Yeah in a lot And you know, so and people, you know, there's lots of women that want to be a a the parent that goes to the school gate. Not me, I'm not interested, I don't want to do it, but you know
Peter Schravemade: What?
IMG 8158 - Video: and what that's one of the the the motivations that I tap into as well is is you know, asking any candidate, but especially women in real estate who
Ellis Taylor: And wha that's one of the the the motivations that I tap into as well is is you know, asking any candidate, but especially women in real estate who I would like to move to tech, is like w what are you actually excited about going to work for? th when I hear the vibe in the office, the environment, the you know, the energy and stuff like that, I I it's gonna be very hard for me to take them across. But when I hear p
IMG 8158 - Video: I would like to move to tech, is like w what are you actually excited about going to work for? th when I hear the vibe in the office, the environment, the you know, the energy and stuff like that, I I it's gonna be very hard for me to take them across. But when I hear p like target the quiet achievers or those who are like a little bit like over the
Ellis Taylor: like target the quiet achievers or those who are like a little bit like over the, you know, twenty four seven mentality, high energy, let's jump on the phone stuff.
IMG 8158 - Video: you know, twenty four seven mentality, high energy, let's jump on the phone stuff. I
Ellis Taylor: I have a really clear message, it's like I you can come and wear what you want at this office. You can work from home two days a week. we're not going to stand up on on desks and scream all of our goals and motivations and what cars and jets that we want. we we are just coming to work to work as a team and it's going to be super enjoyable. As soon as I hear someone resonate with that, they're out. Yeah.
IMG 8158 - Video: clear message is like I you can come and wear what you want at this office. You can work from home two days a week. we're not going to stand up on on desks and scream all of our goals and motivations and what cars and jets that we want. we we are just coming to work to work as a team and it's going to be su super enjoyable. As soon as I hear someone resonate with that, they're out. Yeah.
Peter Schravemade: I I I think we're almost out of time for today, but to both of you, if I imagine there's agency owners listening, what what should they do before Monday to improve the way that they approach staff in general, I would say, but particularly onboarding new staff.
IMG 8158 - Video: I I I think we're almost out of time for today, but to both of you I if I imagine there's agency owners listening, what what should they do before Monday to improve the way that they approach staff in general, I would say, but particularly onboarding new staff?
Ellis Taylor: I might steal what your strongest message today has been, which I think really resonates, is listen to your people. you don't any sales team in the world can show you that it's not about having multiple
IMG 8158 - Video: I might steal what your strongest message today has been, which I think really resonates, is listen to your people. you don't know any sales team in the world can show you that it's not about having a multiple multiples of the same archetype of the the high energy or or or or or or super analytical or super attention to detail salesperson. It's having a mix of those.
Ellis Taylor: multiples of the same archetype of the the high energy or or or or or or super analytical or super attention to detail salesperson, it's having a mix of those
IMG 8158 - Video: To expand your portfolio, to talk to different clients that might resonate with person A and not person B. And then when you're listening to them, you can also understand their motivations and hopefully tailor a little bit more of a path to their success. If you do that, it's going to make
Ellis Taylor: to expand your portfolio to talk to different clients that might resonate with person A and not person B. and then when you're listening to them you can also understand their motivations and hopefully tailor a little bit more of a path to to their success. if you do that, it's gonna make
IMG 8158 - Video: make my job harder, but that's what what I'm giving up today. Free advice. What I would be doing is I'll be going to my current team, every single person, whether they're a salesperson.
Ellis Taylor: make my job harder but that's why what I'm giving up today.
Jacqui Barnes: Free advice. I what I would be doing is I'd be going to my current team, every single person, whether they're a salesperson
IMG 8158 - Video: Or not, whether they're male or female, every single team member, booking a one-on-one with them and I mean have stay meetings first of all rather than exit interviews. But I'd be asking them when you first started here, what helped you start well? What should I have done to help you get going better, faster? What would have made it easier? And then once you have the answers to those questions, use the information. It's all well and good to asking ask questions, but if you don't do anything with the answers, then it's it's pointless. But I would start.
Jacqui Barnes: or not, whether they're male or female, every single team member, booking a one-on-one with them and I mean have stay meetings first of all rather than exit interviews. But I'd be asking them when you first started here, what helped you start well? What should I have done to help you get going better, faster? What would have made it easier? And then once you have the answers to those questions. use the information. It's all well and good to asking ask questions, but if you don't do anything with the answers then it's it's pointless. But I would start
IMG 8158 - Video: By speaking to your team. Yeah, yeah. And and exc excellent advice there, Alice. I really appreciate you coming on and spilling the beans. so to speak. Stabbing myself on the point. Yeah, well, you know, the one thing I'd say to you is every every time I get up in front of an audience, I remind myself that there are so many people who aren't listening to this.
Jacqui Barnes: by speaking to your team.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, yeah. And and exc excellent advice there, Alice. I really appreciate you coming on and spilling the beans. so to speak. Well, you know, the one thing I'd say to you is every every time I get up in front of an audience I remind myself that there are so many people who aren't listening to this.
Ellis Taylor: Stabbing myself on the foot there.
Jacqui Barnes: But should we feel special now or
IMG 8158 - Video: Should we feel special now? And and the the reality is the ones who are listening are probably the ones that run
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, and and the the reality is the ones who are listening are probably the ones that run pretty good offices. They will they will inevitably be motivating themselves to get better at what they do. That it it's always the way. unfortunately there is a side of real estate that will just continue on and I re I would imagine that will be a happy hunting ground,
IMG 8158 - Video: They will they will inevitably be motivating themselves to get better at what they do. That it it's always the way. unfortunately there is a side of real estate that will just continue on and I re I would imagine that will be a happy hunting ground.
Peter Schravemade: but we can always we can always hope that we improve the standards. Jackie, thank you so much for firstly for the report, but the a second time coming on and jatting about it.
IMG 8158 - Video: Can always we can always hope that we improve the standards. Jackie, thank you so much for firstly for the report, but a a second time coming on and jatting about it.
Peter Schravemade: If there's anything that we can do at before weekend to get it out any further, I'll have the links on all of the podcasts. No, that's all right. And I people can reach out to you and have a chat to you. Sure. do you want me to put your contact email at the bottom of it? Ellis, as far as you're concerned, if people are listening to this and that
IMG 8158 - Video: if there's anything that we can do at before the weekend to get it out any further, I'll have the links on all of the podcasts. No, that's all right. And I people can reach out to you and have a chat to you. Sure. do you want me to put your contact email at the bottom of it? Ellis, as far as you're concerned, if people are listening to this and that
Peter Schravemade: the another area that we haven't dealt with today is in tech recruitment for real estate, which is becoming quite big. Are you are you in that area at the moment?
IMG 8158 - Video: the another area that we haven't dealt with today is in tech recruitment for real estate, which is becoming quite big. Are you are you in that area at the moment? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And and more and more you know real estate companies are becoming more you know tech focused. So it's doing a lot of work there. Yeah, so I'll also put the contact details for real time Australia down and then if anyone's got any questions for you they can find them forward. But Ellison, Jackie, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I really appreciate your time and we'll I'll
Ellis Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And and more and more you know, real estate companies are becoming more, you know, tech focused. A lot of work there.
Peter Schravemade: Focus. Yep. So I'll also put the contact details for real time Australia down and then if anyone's got any questions for you they can find them forward. But Ellis and Jackie, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I really appreciate your time and we'll I'm sure we'll see you before long.
IMG 8158 - Video: sure we'll see you before long. Thank you. Thanks Pete. Thanks Pete.
Ellis Taylor: Thank you.
Jacqui Barnes: Thanks, Bate. Thanks.
IMG 8158 - Video: welcome to the Before the Weekend. This is going to be a special edition release and I'm delighted to have with me I'm here in Sydney actually and it is the thirtieth of July on Thursday. and I'm delighted to have back on Before the Weekend Jackie Barnes. Jackie Barnes is no stranger to Before the Weekend appearing on episode three at Aric May on the Gold Coast. Jackie, how are you? Welcome. I'm Thank you for having me. Thank you for thank you for well, this is actually your venue, so thank you for having me.
Jacqui Barnes: Thank you for having me.
Peter Schravemade: Thank you for thank you for well this is actually your venue, so thank you for having me.
Ellis Taylor: Yeah.
Peter Schravemade: And Alice. I know we're gonna introduce Alice in a minute. But Jackie, last time I had you on before the weekend, we were talking about your report. You launched Real Women and Real Estate Insights report, which is an Australian first study that you designed, and wrote. And at the time I commented that I thought it was a report that should have been on the main stage of ARIC. where
IMG 8158 - Video: And Alice. I know we're gonna introduce Alice in a minute. But Jackie, last time I had you on before the weekend, we were talking about your report. You launched Real Women and Real Estate Insights report, which is an Australian first study that you designed, and wrote. And at the time I commented that I thought it was a report that should have been on the main stage of ARIC. two months later you're back and you brought someone with you. last time you told me success for
Peter Schravemade: two months later you're back and you bought someone with you. last time you told me successful. this report look like one thing. this time I'm asking whether this has sparked conversations outside of where you are. Are you hearing about
IMG 8158 - Video: this report looked like one thing. This time I'm asking whether this has sparked conversations outside of where you are, are you hearing about
Peter Schravemade: outcomes as a result of writing the report or has it gone quiet?
IMG 8158 - Video: outcomes as a result of writing the report or has it gone quiet? So
Jacqui Barnes: So
IMG 8158 - Video: I haven't really heard outcomes yet, but I am getting comments about I wanted to tell you that I I heard your report was being spoken about in a in a boardroom meeting recently and people people that I don't know and I've met and I meet them at an event or something for the first time, they've read it or heard about it. So it's definitely getting out there and
Jacqui Barnes: I haven't really heard outcomes yet, but I am getting comments about I wanted to tell you that I I heard your report was being spoken about in a in a boardroom meeting recently and people are people that I don't know and I've met and I meet them at an event or something for the first time, they've read it or heard about it. So it's definitely getting out there. And it
IMG 8158 - Video: It wasn't the Aric main stage, but obviously you you organized me to speak at Lyft a few weeks ago and that it was really, really well received in that in that setting and you know it's just still I mean it's still getting it out there, but it seems to be really well received. The feedback's really positive, really constructive. a lot of people, leaders are taking things away from it, telling me they're implementing things in their business. Now I'm waiting to find out what those things are and the outcome of those because it will
Jacqui Barnes: wasn't the ARIC main stage, but obviously you you organized for me to speak at a few weeks ago and that it was really really well received in that in that setting and you know it's just still I mean it's still getting it out there but it seems to be really well received the feedback's really positive really constructive a lot of people leaders are taking things away from it telling me they're implementing things in their business now I'm waiting to find out what those things are and the outcome of those because it will
IMG 8158 - Video: take some time for it to then have a f a follow through effect. Yeah, one of one of the things I've noticed, especially after the tech and innovation stage that you spoke on at the REIQ lift conference, almost everybody that hears the report identifies with parts of the report and they go, I can see that. I think the overriding comment I've had is it put into theory what I knew, but I hadn't actually I hadn't, you know, I hadn't seen it written down or or or read it anywhere else. But w we were already
Jacqui Barnes: take some time for it to then have a a follow-through effect.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, one of one of the things I've noticed, especially after the tech and innovation stage that you spoke on at the REIQ Lyft conference, almost everybody that hears the report identifies with parts of the report and they go, I can see that. I think the overriding comment I've had is it put into theory what I knew, but I hadn't actually I hadn't you know, I hadn't seen it written down or or or read it anywhere else. But w we were already We're already aware of it, but it it really just gives a name to the
IMG 8158 - Video: We were already aware of it, but it it really just gives a name to the It's kind of linked together
Jacqui Barnes: kind of linked together
IMG 8158 - Video: thoughts and validated that actually what we were thinking actually that's true because now it's not just my thought or opinion, there's actual evidence to support that thought or opinion.
Jacqui Barnes: thoughts and validated that actually what we were thinking, actually that's true because now it's not just my thought or opinion, there's actual evidence to support that thought or opinion.
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah, yeah, brilliant. Now, you've bought a friend. Actually it's he's Well, I bought your friend. I had him first.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, yeah, brilliant. Now, you've bought a friend. Actually it's he's I had him first.
Ellis Taylor: Well I bought your friend.
IMG 8158 - Video: with with us in the room is Alice Taylor. Alice is well you run Real Time Australia, which is a recruitment firm, but not not technically a real estate recruiter. Alice is well known for placing people into tech and a lot of the people you place are allegedly are coming out of our industry. So Alan Alice, welcome to Before the Weekend Podcast. Thank you for having me. now you tell us who you are and what you actually do, how long you've been at it and
Peter Schravemade: With with us in the room is Alice Taylor. Alice is well you run Real Time Australia, which is a recruitment firm, but not not technically a real estate recruiter. Alice is well known for placing people into tech and a lot of the people you place are allegedly are coming out of our industry. So Ali Alice, welcome to Before the Weekend Podcast. now you tell us who you are and what you actually do, how long you've been at it and
Ellis Taylor: Having me.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, how did you end up recruiting out of real estate? But let's start with the first part first.
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah, how did you end up recruiting out of real estate? But let's start with the first part first. Sure. Okay.
Ellis Taylor: Sure. Okay. yes, running real time Australia. We work with the cutting edge tech companies and and always have. Blackbird and Air Tree have named us their number one preferred talent supplier to their portfolio, which means anyone who is backed by the biggest VCs in Australia, as soon as they need to hire, they speak to me. so that means that I'm constantly looking at trends
IMG 8158 - Video: Yes, running real time Australia. We work with the cutting edge tech companies and and always have. Blackbird and Air Tree have named us their number one preferred talent supplier to their portfolio, which means anyone who is backed by the biggest VCs in Australia, as soon as they need to hire, they speak to me. so that means that I'm constantly looking at trends
Ellis Taylor: and
IMG 8158 - Video: and Themes
Ellis Taylor: themes within other industries of how to you know attract people to companies like this. sorry this industry being real estate and and tech how they intersected as well so work with a lot of prop techs work with a lot of like larger brand names like your Netflix's your you know Canvas your afterpace and stuff like that
IMG 8158 - Video: within other industries of how to, you know, attract people to companies like this. sorry, this industry being real estate, and and tech, how they intersected as well. So work with a lot of prop techs, work with a lot of like larger brand names like your Netflix's, your you know, Canvas, your afterpace and stuff like that. Yeah,
Peter Schravemade: Yeah,
IMG 8158 - Video: and obviously at Reach Australia we're happy to have you as a sponsor as well, even though we're not a blackbird yet. Sure. But
Peter Schravemade: and obviously at Reach Australia we're happy to have you as a sponsor as well, even though we're not a blackbird yet. Sure. But we'll we'll get there. One step at a top. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. w walk me through a placement. S particularly pertaining to this report, so from a real estate perspective.
IMG 8158 - Video: One step at a time. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. walk me through a placement. S particularly pertaining to this report, so from a real estate perspective. Sure.
Ellis Taylor: Sure,
IMG 8158 - Video: Okay, so a placement with my client looks like this. They come to me and say, I need to find someone to fill a gap and a lot of the time that is
Ellis Taylor: okay, so a placement with my client looks like this. They come to me and say, I need to find someone to fill a gap. and a lot of the time that is really a a a new problem which is evolving. the talent sector in Australia, like generally speaking, is extremely narrow in terms of the the most in-demand people, whether it be in
IMG 8158 - Video: really a a a new problem which is evolving. the talent sector in Australia, like generally speaking, is extremely narrow in terms of the the most in-demand people, whether it be in sales or engineering or marketing, are all in this top bracket, which means that everyone, whether it be tech or many of the industries adjacent to or outside of tech, are after the same people.
Ellis Taylor: Sales or engineering or marketing, all in this top bracket, which means that everyone, whether it be tech or many of the industries adjacent to or outside of tech, are after the same people. So
IMG 8158 - Video: So those companies are coming to me and saying, how can we get smart about finding people, you know, A competing with the the most in demand brackets, but also getting smart, doing something that we we've been following for years called talent engineering, to listen to the problem that these
Ellis Taylor: those companies are coming to me and saying, How can we get smart about finding people, you know, A, competing with the the most in demand brackets, but also getting smart, doing something that we we've been following for years called talent engineering, to listen to the problem that these
IMG 8158 - Video: companies have and think outside the box, tap into the trends that we're we're always following, tap into the data that is coming our way, and yeah, the the the
Ellis Taylor: companies have and think outside the box, tap into the trends that we we're always following, tap into the data that is coming our way. And yeah, the the a really interesting trend within that is the intersection between how
IMG 8158 - Video: really interesting trend within that is the intersection between how real estate professionals are really, really well suited for the for the tech companies, which has been something that has been I think a lot of places are a shock. Like even when I put up my hand and w meeting Jackie on on stage kind of, when I I s
Ellis Taylor: real estate professionals are really, really well suited for the for the tech companies, which has been something that has been I think a lot of places are a shock. Like even when I put up my hand and w meeting Jackie on l on stage kind of, when I I s I said, yeah, I I I really love your report. this is one of the reasons why, you know, we are actively going after your industry. I thought Jackie was gonna throw the mic at me for a second. 'Cause, you know, I think your response was, you're welcome.
IMG 8158 - Video: I said, yeah, I I really love your report. this is one of the reasons why, you know, we are actively going after your industry. I thought Jackie was gonna throw the mic at me for a second. 'Cause, you know, I think your response was, you're welcome. I I did say that actually, that was my response. Yeah, yeah. Which was, you know, justified. But I think a lot of people in the room were like
Jacqui Barnes: I I did say that actually, that was my response.
Ellis Taylor: Yeah, yeah. Which was, you know, justified. But I think a lot of people in the room were like, hang on, that's that's a problem and that's a that's that's that's something that we should be talking about and listening to.
IMG 8158 - Video: Hang on, that's that's a problem and that's a that's that's that's something that we should be talking about and listening to. Well the first thing I wanna wanna drill down a bit more into, like I am constantly educating real estate agents to be better at technology, and I would never have guessed that you were looking at real estate agents for technology jobs without being demeaning to the majority of real estate agents out there, the tech literacy levels are quite
Peter Schravemade: Well the first thing I wanna wanna drill down a bit more into, like I am constantly educating real estate agents to be better at technology and I would never have guessed that you were looking at real estate agents for technology jobs without being demeaning to the majority of real estate agents out there, the tech literacy levels are quite
IMG 8158 - Video: Low. So is is there a particular type of real estate agent you're after? Is it is how
Peter Schravemade: low. So is is there a particular type of real estate agent you're after? Is it is how how are you how does how does this work? I'm having trouble understanding
IMG 8158 - Video: how are you how does how does this work? I'm having trouble understanding. Sure, sure, sure. yeah, so what any company, especially a tech company, is after in their sales team is hustle. Technology is getting much easier to understand and work with and adopt. So when we say like a technology salesperson, that doesn't
Ellis Taylor: Sure, sure, sure. yeah, so what any company, especially a tech company, is after in their sales team is hustle. Technology is getting much easier to understand and work with and adopt. So when we say like a a technology salesperson, that doesn't
IMG 8158 - Video: mean they're coding or or or or doing anything extremely technical they're just selling the software product on and and that product is getting much more packageable
Ellis Taylor: mean they're coding or or or or doing anything extremely technical. They're just selling the software product on and and that product is getting much more more packageable.
IMG 8158 - Video: so that all we really need behind that that sale is a lot of the things that real estate professionals have which is you know the confidence the the the grit to be able to do a hundred cold calls a day presentation walk
Ellis Taylor: So that all we really need behind that that sale is a lot of the things that real estate professionals have, which is, you know, the confidence, the the the grit to be able to do a hundred cold calls a day, presentation, walking
IMG 8158 - Video: To a room and and you know getting out a deck and showing C suite that you know this solution is best for you. Like all of those soft skills that are really, really strong in
Ellis Taylor: to a room and and you know, getting out a a deck and showing C suite that, you know, this solution is best for you. Like all of those soft skills that are really, really strong in the the real estate and property industry, that's what tech is really after and and you know I'd also argue any other industry is after with their sales teams as well.
IMG 8158 - Video: the the real estate and property industry, that's what tech is really after. And and you know, I'd also argue any other industry is after with their sales teams as well. Yeah, that makes that makes complete sense to me, that side of it. Totally get that. I for one minute thought you were hiring them for technical roles.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, that makes that makes complete sense to me, that side of it. Totally get that. I for one minute thought you were h hiring them for technical roles. Jackie, just back to the report, the finding at the center of the report is the gap between the support leaders, the the gap between what the support leaders believe they provide and what the people actually experience. Yeah. in the report it's a data point. In practice, what does that gap look like inside the real estate agency?
Ellis Taylor: not yet.
IMG 8158 - Video: Okay, so yeah, no. yet. Jackie, just back to the report. the finding at the center of the report is the gap between the support leaders, the the gap between what the support leaders believe they provide and what the people actually experience. Yeah. in the report it's a data point. In practice, what does that gap look like inside the real estate agency? it's a f it's essentially it's a feeling, right? So, you know, a leader will sit there and say, you know, I'm really approachable.
Jacqui Barnes: It's a f it's essentially it's a feeling, right? So, you know, a leader will sit there and say, you know, I'm really approachable, my team know they can come to me about anything. And they might tell the new team member that they've hired that they are, and they might say to you know, they're hiring somebody saying, Yep, I'll give you all this coaching and training and all that sort of stuff. But having a once a fortnight meeting, handing over a script and dialogue Bible and a map with a highlighter and some DLs and and and someone or sign assignment.
IMG 8158 - Video: My team knows they can come to me about anything. And they might tell the new team member that they've hired that they are. And they might say to you know, they're hiring somebody saying, Yep, I'll give you all this coaching and training and all that sort of stuff. But having a once-a-fortnight meeting, handing over a script and dialogue Bible and a map with a highlighter and some DLs and so on, or assigning
Jacqui Barnes: the office friend, that's not being, that's not great leadership. And you know, there's this the gap
IMG 8158 - Video: the office friend, that's not being that's not great leadership, and you know, there's this the gap in Is that leaders believe they're providing everything they need to provide. They believe that they're approachable, but you know the report showing that within the first 12 to 24 months, women, and obviously it's women in this instance, but I don't think it's exclusive to women, are deciding whether or not they want to continue their career without ever having a conversation with this supposedly really approachable leader.
Jacqui Barnes: is that leaders believe they're providing everything they need to provide. They believe that they're approachable, but you know the report showing that within the first 12 to 24 months, women, and obviously it's women in this instance, but I don't think it's exclusive to women, are deciding whether or not they want to continue their career without ever having a conversation with this supposedly really approachable leader. And so what's happening is that we are not giving our people what it is that they need.
IMG 8158 - Video: And so what's happening is that we are not giving our people what it is that they need. And I think there's a couple of parts of it, but I think that we're not understanding that real estate and people, the world has changed. I mean, in the last 30 years it's tracked, you know, changed drastically, but even in the last five or six it's changed. In the last year it's changed. I mean, people aren't particularly nice to each other right at this moment in time either. And so I don't think that we are good enough at looking at people at
Jacqui Barnes: And I think there's a couple of parts of it, but I think that we're not understanding that real estate and people, the world has changed. I mean, in the last 30 years it's tracked, you know, changed drastically, but even in the last five or six it's changed. In the last year it's changed. I mean, people aren't particularly nice to each other right at this moment in time either. And so I don't think that we are good enough at looking at people as an individual level figuring out okay this is what I need to do to get the best out of you to help you grow and thrive
IMG 8158 - Video: an individual level, figuring out, okay, this is what I need to do to get the best out of you to help you grow and thrive.
Jacqui Barnes: we just have this box that we say that's a box you all have to fit in and even if that doesn't get the best out of you you'll at least do okay with that but the people that are only going to do okay with that where you know the small effort that we're putting in for them Ellis's clients are going to reap the benefit of that
IMG 8158 - Video: We just have this box that we say that's a box you all have to fit in. And even if that doesn't get the best out of you, you'll at least do okay with that. But the people that are only going to do okay with that, where you know, the small effort that we're putting in for them, Ellis's clients are gonna reap the benefit of that. Yeah.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah. Well in May, one of the things that you told me is you said you felt sad because the women had succeeded despite the environment that they'd actually been in. not because of it. And you
IMG 8158 - Video: Well in May, one of the things that you told me is you said you felt sad because the women had succeeded despite the environment that they'd actually been in. not because of it and you you used the term pure grit and you said what drives our performance leadership support scored seven percent and coaching scored six percent the businesses employing these women get credit for thirteen of their success. Has anyone in the industry pushed back on that number? No
Peter Schravemade: you used the term pure grit. and you said what drives our performance leadership support scored seven percent and coaching scored six percent. The businesses employing these women get credit for thirteen of their success. Has anyone in the industry push back on that number? No.
IMG 8158 - Video: one. No one's pushed back on anything at all. So we we know that that's a problem. Yeah. This is probably the other side to it. Even though those n those those numbers are quite damning. Yeah. I literally actually now that I I hadn't actually thought about it but
Jacqui Barnes: No one's pushed back on anything. Yeah.
Peter Schravemade: So we we know that that's a problem. This is probably the other side to it.
Jacqui Barnes: Yeah. I literally actually now that I I hadn't actually thought about it, but I've had not one piece of negative feedback or even constructive feedback. I've had literally one smart ass comment on a social media reel that says, What's gender bias?
IMG 8158 - Video: I've had not one piece of negative feedback or even constructive feedback. I've had literally one smart ass comment on a social media reel that says, What's gender bias?
Peter Schravemade: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
IMG 8158 - Video: a good question. Yeah. Happy happy
Jacqui Barnes: Yeah, happy happy to answer it, but yeah. so yeah, that's yeah, no no pushback whatsoever.
IMG 8158 - Video: to answer it, but yeah. so yeah, that's yeah, no no pushback whatsoever. Yeah, and
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, and
IMG 8158 - Video: I like, I mean, that's answered my next question for you is is has there been pushback? So we'll move back to Alice. like there's quite clear in the report there's a few things that diagnose most of the problem. you wrote in a manuscript that I saw that
Peter Schravemade: like I mean that's answered my next question for you is is has there been pushback? So we'll move back to Alice. like there's quite clear in the report there's a few things that diagnose most of the problem. you wrote in a manuscript that I saw that the vulnerabilities Jackie identified are the exact reasons her high performers are ready to jump ship.
IMG 8158 - Video: The vulnerabilities Jackie identified are the exact reasons her high performers are ready to jump shit. Yeah.
Ellis Taylor: Yeah.
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah. And and even in that time frame as well, like I I I know that the hardest time for a sales professional in real estate, especially women, is that first six to eighteen months. That's when I target them. Because I know if they've gone through that really hard, unsupportive 18, 24 month zone, they're
Ellis Taylor: Yeah. And and even in that time frame as well, like I I I know that the hardest time for a sales professional in real estate, especially women, is that first six to eighteen months. That's when I target them. Because I know if they've gone through that really hard, unsupportive eighteen, twenty four month zone, they're
IMG 8158 - Video: harder to get but it's easy pickings in that six to eighteen month period because of all of those things and many many more and it's it's working so well for for for for my clients and and you know tech sales teams in general because by design they offer a a very structured scalable supported environment if their product and teams aren't scalable then they're
Ellis Taylor: harder to get. But it's easy pickings in that six to eighteen month period. Because of all of those things and many, many more. And it's working so well for for my clients and and you know tech sales teams in general because by design they offer a very structured, scalable, supported environment. If their product and teams aren't scalable, then their business isn't. whereas on the real estate front, it's a it's a lot more
IMG 8158 - Video: business isn't whereas on the real estate front it's a it's a lot more individual
Ellis Taylor: individual performance focused. So I can say things like, you know, mentoring and teamwork and working with marketing teams and one on weekly one-on-ones and you know I there's there's just so many things I could tap into and have that conversation with the with those people to get their interest and they're biting. And
IMG 8158 - Video: performance focused yeah so I can say things like you know mentoring and teamwork and working with marketing teams and one on weekly one-on-ones and you know I there's there's just so many things I could tap into and have that conversation with the with those people to get their interest and they're biting. And
Jacqui Barnes: Yeah. funny thing is is that when you hear all of those things that you just write it off a lot of leaders will say but I provide that. Right. But what this but the team's not not actually experiencing the things that are allegedly provided. And I mean maybe some people do do provide it or a version of it but the version of it's not landing.
IMG 8158 - Video: funny thing is is that when you hear all of those things that you just write it off a lot of leaders will say but I provide that. Right. But what this but the team's not not actually experiencing the things that are allegedly provided. And I mean maybe some people do do provide it or a version of it but the version of it's not landing. Yeah
Peter Schravemade: Yeah,
IMG 8158 - Video: it's well it's funny as we talk through this it echoes my career. Like I was in I was in real estate. I can't say I was frustrated and I and I I don't believe I'm a female.
Peter Schravemade: it's well it's funny, as we talk through this, it echoes my career. Like I was in I was in real estate. I can't say I was frustrated and I and I I don't believe I'm a female.
IMG 8158 - Video: But which which the report was directly referencing, but obviously you've referenced that it probably happens to blogs as well. I can actually say that the support that I received from a even from a very, very early startup, like we had access to every department. We could have an open dialogue.
Peter Schravemade: But which which the report was directly referencing, but obviously you've referenced that it probably happens to blokes as well. Yeah. I can actually say that the support that I received from a even from a very, very early startup, like we had access to every department. We could have an open dialogue. because we were so nimble, we could change the direction of the company within an hour, within sometimes half of a day and then move forward. And and that was the exciting part. I think sometimes too from my perspective, real estate officers are viewed as quite inflexible and and i immovable in the direction that they that they go forward. And sometimes you have a lot of frustrations and the response is well this is the way we've always done it or this is what's handed down. So potentially when you're hiring for a
IMG 8158 - Video: Because we were so nimble, we could change the direction of the company within an hour, within sometimes half of a day, and then move forward. And that was the exciting part. I think sometimes, too, from my perspective, real estate officers are viewed as quite inflexible and and immovable in the direction that they that they go forward. And sometimes you have a lot of frustrations, and the response is, Well, this is the way we've always done it, or this is what's handed down. So potentially when you're hiring for a tech
Peter Schravemade: Tech company, that's not the case anymore where you're you're actually openly set to challenge the status quo and go, is this why we're doing things?
IMG 8158 - Video: company. That's not the case anymore where you're you're actually openly set to challenge the status quo and go, Is this why we're doing things? It's one of those if it's not broke, don't fix it type of things, but also if it's not okay, then fix it. Yeah. It's it's that type of thing, and I think something I think of a trap that leaders fall into sometimes, or maybe it's not even I don't even know if the word leader is the right word, but business owners, is they often people generally go down two pathways. They have worked for a leader that's really
Jacqui Barnes: It's one of those if it's not broke, don't fix it type of things, but also if it's not okay, then fix it. Yeah. It's it's that type of thing. And I think somet I think of a trap that leaders fall into sometimes, or maybe it's already I don't even know if the word leader's the right word, but business owners, is they often people generally go down two pathways. They have worked for a leader that's really
IMG 8158 - Video: Really, a poor leader, and they make a conscious effort to not be like that. And they want to go and put because they know that
Jacqui Barnes: a poor leader, and they make a conscious effort to not be like that. And they want to go and put because they know that.
IMG 8158 - Video: they didn't respond well to that leadership stuff, so they might put a bit of effort into developing their own. Or you get people that say, Well, that was a terrible experience. I didn't like working for a leader like that, but you know what? That's how it was for me. So that's how it's going to be for everybody that comes to work under me. And that doesn't build a good business for anyone. No.
Jacqui Barnes: they didn't respond well to that leadership stuff so they might put a bit of effort into developing their own. Or you get people that say, well, that was a terrible experience. I didn't like working for a leader like that. But you know what? That's how it was for me. So that's how it's gonna be for everybody that comes to work under me. And that doesn't build a good business for anyone. No.
IMG 8158 - Video: Ellis, you mentioned eight around the eighteen months or twelve to twenty four I I read in the the document that I've seen, but let's go eighteen months. Jackie is he taking people right at the weakest point? Is that is you read on Yeah, that's my read on it. So this bastard has figured it out. Yeah, so basically what we're doing, we're spending seventy to eighty grand a year training up really great people for Ellis.
Peter Schravemade: Alice, you mentioned eight around the eighteen months or twelve to twenty-four I I read in the the document that I've seen, but let's go, eighteen months. Jackie, is he taking people right at the weakest point? Is that is that read on it? Bastard has figured it out.
Jacqui Barnes: I think so. Yeah, that's my reiteration. Yeah, so basically what we're doing, we're spending seventy to eighty grand a year training up really great people for Ellis.
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah. And and so at that stage they would understand a lot of the operation of a real estate office, the way the a lot of the compliance, the regulation, everything.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah. And and so at that stage they would understand a lot of the operation of a real estate office, the way the a lot of the compliance, the regulation, everything
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah that have a a fair amount of sales experience behind them. Well they might not I mean their transactions may not have come to fruition at that point, but they at least they've been around it, they've observed it, they've been immersed in it, whether they've physically been responsible for it's a different story. I think it's probably really I think it's probably between month nine and eighteen months that it's probably the biggest
Peter Schravemade: in there that have a a fair amount of sales experience behind them.
Jacqui Barnes: Well, they might not I mean their transactions may not have come to fruition at that point, but they at least they've been around it, they've observed it, they've been immersed in it, whether they've physically been responsible for it's a different story. I think it's probably really I think it's probably between month nine and eighteen months that it's probably the biggest
IMG 8158 - Video: risk to the industry and the most opportune for Ellis because people will always that first six months it's very much a learning process. People are willing to generally the team member is willing to give it that six months and see how it plays out. And then they'll start to get a bit nervous between month six and month nine and think, how is this going to come together? And then if they start getting pressure, you know, from their employer and Ellis is starting to make those phone calls and they can't see that result coming yet, they might make the easy decision which is
Jacqui Barnes: risk to the industry and the most opportune for Ellis because people will always that first six months, it's very much a learning process. People are willing to generally the team member is willing to give it that six months and see how it plays out. And then they'll start to get a bit nervous between month six and month nine and think, how is this going to come together? And then if they start getting pressure, you know, from their employer and Ellis is starting to make those phone calls and they can't see that result coming yet, they might make the easy decision which is to go.
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah.
Jacqui Barnes: but what's happening is we're making decisions and putting pre like we we're not understanding that this is a two year journey for people and we're making decisions on these people at month six, nine, twelve, whatever it might be, without understanding that they're on a on a pathway and they've got to get through that pathway first. Yeah. But additionally we're not doing anything to help them on that pathway.
IMG 8158 - Video: But what's happening is we're making decisions and putting pre like we we're not understanding that this is a two year journey for people and we're making decisions on these people at month six, nine, twelve, whatever it might be, without understanding that they're on a on a pathway and they've got to get through that pathway first. Yeah. But additionally we're not doing anything to help them on that pathway. Yeah, yeah,
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, yeah, and I like I I I think that time frame's always been a bit of an issue for anyone getting into a real estate office that nine to nine to eighteen months. But I didn't realise it was as much of an an issue, especially for women, I think, in that this report's highlighted.
IMG 8158 - Video: and I like I I I think that time frame's always been a bit of an issue for anyone getting into a real estate office that nine to nine to eighteen months. But I didn't realise it was as much of an an issue, especially for women, I think, in that this report's highlighted.
Ellis Taylor: Yeah, it's probably a good idea for or good time, sorry, for me to also just give you a bit more perspective of like how recruiters who follow a talent engineering model work as well. It's not just me picking up the phone at that person's six month mark.
IMG 8158 - Video: It's probably a good idea for or good time, sorry, for me to also just give you a bit more perspective of like how recruiters who follow a talent engineering model work as well. It's not just me picking up the phone at that person's six-month mark. The use of AI in recruiting and building a talent engineering system now means that I will have multiple touch points between the six and eighteen month mark with different messages in different media, asking different questions and providing different personalized ideas and content from my clients to them. So it's not just a you know a personalized LinkedIn message that goes out and say, hey, are you not happy?
Ellis Taylor: The use of AI in recruiting and building a talent engineering system now means that I will have multiple touch points between the six and eighteen month mark with different messages in different media, asking different questions and providing different personalized ideas and content from my clients to them. So it's not just a you know a personalized LinkedIn message that goes out and say, hey, are you not happy?
IMG 8158 - Video: With your career, why don't you come and explore what a career in tech sales would look like? It's an extremely personalized, targeted system which is only going to get more and more sophisticated. So I I want to scare you. I've already
Ellis Taylor: With your career, why don't you come and explore what a a career in tech sales would look like? It's an extremely personalized, targeted system which is only going to get more and more sophisticated. So I I want to scare you because
Jacqui Barnes: I can actually picture this campaign popping up. Someone's had a bad day. They've just been read the Riot Act by not getting their call numbers or whatever. They get home, they've poured a glass of wine, they're
IMG 8158 - Video: I can actually picture this campaign popping up. Someone's had a bad day, they've just been read Riot Act by not getting their call numbers or whatever. They get home, they've poured a glass of wine, they've Doom scrolling and Ellis Ellis' Instagram post comes up. Want to transfer your sales career or thought about this or thought in a subliminal way, and you're thinking, Well, you know what? If that packs it in, I'll just call Ellis.
Jacqui Barnes: doom scrolling in El Ellis' Instagram. Wanna transfer your sales career or thought about this or thought in a subliminal way and you're thinking, Well you know what, if that packs it in I'll just call Ellis.
Ellis Taylor: comes up.
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah, and it's and it's it it's it's really really working. And and a lot of the candidates who are even saying, Hey, look, now's not the right time, but I can introduce you to two or three of my friends in the industry who are not having a great time or don't love their boss or
Ellis Taylor: Yeah, and it's and it's it it's it's really, really working and and a lot of the candidates who are even saying, Hey, look, now's not the right time, but I can introduce you to two or three of my friends in the industry who are not having a great time or don't love their boss or
IMG 8158 - Video: this or that and that's you know compounding this exodus from from
Ellis Taylor: this or that and that's you know, compounding this exodus from from estate I see, which I I I I truly do feel is only going to accelerate. Sorry again.
IMG 8158 - Video: I see, which I I I I truly do feel is only going to accelerate. Yeah. Sorry again. Interesting, interesting juxtaposition, because Jackie, you're running you're you're people in growth for a national franchise. you're recruiting people directly, well I'm maybe not directly from her.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah. Interesting interesting juxtaposition 'cause Jackie, you're running you you're you're people in growth for a national franchise. you're recruiting people directly, well, maybe not directly from the
Jacqui Barnes: It's friends close, enemies close.
IMG 8158 - Video: Friends close, enemies close than me. Yeah, and and and and I think I've already crossed that gap to the dark side. It's an interesting
Ellis Taylor: Yeah.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, and and and I and I think I've already crossed that gap to the dark side. Like it's an interesting
Ellis Taylor: So
IMG 8158 - Video: it's an interesting juxtaposition so jackie do you do you think it's fair that ellis gets like comes in and picks all the all the all the fruit like let's look fair's this really complex because it's a word right it's low hanging fruit right that's what we call
Peter Schravemade: it's interesting juxtaposition. So Jackie, do you do you think it's fair that Ellis gets like comes in and picks all the g all all the fruit? Like let's 'cause it's like it's low hanging fruit, right? That's what we call it.
Jacqui Barnes: Fares is really good.
Ellis Taylor: Yeah.
Jacqui Barnes: Fair fair implies that it's equal. Yeah. Look, do I think it's fair? It's w wildly irritating, really, to be completely to gonna be completely transparent. But if we are not going to give the people
IMG 8158 - Video: fair fair implies that it's equal yeah look do I think it's fair it's wildly irritating really to be completely to be completely transparent but if we are not going to give the people In this industry, what it is that they need to succeed when we now have the information. Well, it's kind of on us for not doing better. Well,
Jacqui Barnes: in this industry what it is that they need to succeed when we now have the information, well it's kind of on us for not doing better.
Peter Schravemade: Well, you've also said and I've gotten sight of a press release that you've got coming up that that you real estate loses talent through lazy management. So there is a there is an aspect here where it's it's not Alice's fault. Like we're u Uber wouldn't have come in if the taxi drivers were doing a wonderful job. So you know, I'm not saying El Alice is the Uber of recruitment, he could well
IMG 8158 - Video: you've also said, and I've gotten sight of a press release that you've got coming up, that that you real estate loses talent through lazy management. So there is a there is an aspect here where it's it's not Alice's fault. Like we're Uber. It is ours. Yeah, Uber wouldn't have come in if the taxi drivers were doing a wonderful job. So you know, I'm not saying Alice is the Uber of recruitment, you could be
Jacqui Barnes: It's out it is ours.
Peter Schravemade: be.
Ellis Taylor: But I
Peter Schravemade: He's he's obviously he's obviously highlighted a a distinctive area that is very beneficial for the recruitment process. so Jackie, question for you, what does a business have to give someone so that when Alice calls they don't pick up? And I mean he just mentioned that it's probably not a call that's while they're doom scrolling. But like what what do you what do you think a a defensible position looks like? We spoke about lazy management, so I'm assuming that
IMG 8158 - Video: He's obviously highlighted a distinctive area that is very beneficial for the recruitment process. so Jackie question for you what does a business have to give someone so that when Alice calls they don't pick up? And I mean he just mentioned that it's probably not a call that's while they're doom scrolling. But like what what do you what do you think a a defensible position looks like? We spoke about lazy management, so I'm assuming that you know health a healthy
Peter Schravemade: you know health a healthy
IMG 8158 - Video: culture and good management would be the start of it is there something else that
Peter Schravemade: culture and good management would be the start of it. Is there something else that
IMG 8158 - Video: yeah I think it's just I think there's a few parts to it I think one is understanding that success takes time for people some people are going to be a runaway success in six to twelve months some people it's gonna take them that first that full two years but understanding that's the time window and and when I when I talk about that time window that's talking about a sustainable relationship driven pipeline that's not just the stuff that you're lucky enough to
Jacqui Barnes: Yeah, I think it's just I think there's a few parts to it. I think one is understanding that success takes time for people. some people are gonna be a runaway success in six to twelve months. Some people it's gonna take them that first that full two years. But understanding that's the time window and and when I s when I talk about that time window, that's talking about a sustainable relationship driven pipeline. That's not just the stuff that you're lucky enough to to stumble across. but I think understanding that that is the length of time, making sure
IMG 8158 - Video: To stumble across. But I think understanding that that is the length of time, making sure
Jacqui Barnes: Sure that the team member knows that that's a length of time, knowing what does good look like as you're walking down that pathway, understanding how to get the best out of that person to help them get down that pathway as quickly as possible because it's financially challenging. You're spending money trying to get this person up to speed and successful, but it's not a lot of money that we're spending. They're they're trying to live their life as well. It's
IMG 8158 - Video: that the team member knows that that's the length of time, knowing what does good look like as you're walking down that pathway, understanding how to get the best out of that person to help them get down that pathway as quickly as possible because it's financially challenging. You're spending money trying to get this person up to speed and successful, but it's not a lot of money that we're spending. They're trying to live their life as well. financially challenging for people being on the award getting started. and so understanding all of those
Jacqui Barnes: financially challenging for people being on the award getting started. and so understanding of those things.
IMG 8158 - Video: things and then how to help that person grow and thrive and how to get the best out of them. Some people need the carrot and stick. Some people need to be ruled with an iron fist. Other people need support. Know what that is and how to drive them to that outcome. What motivates you and what motivates me are very different things. And so understanding what that is
Jacqui Barnes: things and then how to help that person grow and thrive and how to get the best out of them. Some people need the carrot and stick. Some people need to be ruled with an iron fist. Other people need support. Know what that is and how to drive them to that outcome. What motivates you and what motivates me are very different things. And so understanding what that is. we'll never be able to stop people trying to take, you know, or stop Ellis being able to take people from the industry. There will always be some. But at the end of the day our people deserve the best we want the best out of them. They deserve the best out of us in order to do that.
IMG 8158 - Video: We'll never be able to stop people trying to take you know, or stop Ellis being able to take people from the industry. There will always be some. But at the end of the day, our people deserve the best we want the best out of them. They deserve the best out of us in order to do that. Yeah. And Ellis, if if if an agency was like that, does it make it immeasurably more difficult for you to recruit? Absolutely. Yeah. Like I I get told that I'm not interested when they have a very clear path
Peter Schravemade: Yeah. And Alice, if if if an agency was like that, does it make it immeasurably more difficult for you to recruit?
Ellis Taylor: Absolutely. Yeah. Like I I get told that I'm not interested when they have a very clear path
IMG 8158 - Video: to success and a really good relationship with their team and their their boss or their manager or their leader. that's the kryptonite that you know shuts me down. Yeah. the other thing that is really really hard to you know defend against or or or really like you know
Ellis Taylor: to success and a really good relationship with their team and their their boss or their manager or their leader. that's the kryptonite that, you know, shuts me down. Yeah. the other thing that is really, really hard to you know, defend against or or or really like, you know
IMG 8158 - Video: take someone out of that position and and move across is the the feelings of of
Ellis Taylor: take someone out of that position and and move across is the the feelings of of of how they are actually
IMG 8158 - Video: of how they are actually
Ellis Taylor: valued in their team which is not tied to a a figure on a whiteboard in terms of how many calls I've made today or like how many sales I've closed this week, which again in that six to eighteen month zone, you've got very little
IMG 8158 - Video: valued in their team which is not tied to a a figure on a whiteboard in terms of how many calls I've made today or like how many sales I've closed this week which again in that six to eighteen month zone you've got very little
Ellis Taylor: Outputs really. Inputs are very very heavy, and that's what tech does really well. They set KPIs around inputs because they have a very very trackable process towards the sale
IMG 8158 - Video: outputs really inputs are very very heavy and that's what tech does really well they set KPIs around inputs because they have a very very trackable process towards the sale.
Ellis Taylor: that is said if you input in these measures, then you're going to get that output. I know that obviously exists in real estate, but it feels a lot more undervalued when it's not connected to the output.
IMG 8158 - Video: That is that if you input in these measures, then you're going to get that output. I know that obviously exists in real estate, but it feels a lot more undervalued when it's not connected to the output. It's because
Jacqui Barnes: It's because we you're right, it's value we're valuing calling
IMG 8158 - Video: we you're right, it's value we're valuing Calling a hundred people or dialing a hundred numbers or knocking on X amount of doors and booking X amount of appraisals. But what we're not valuing is that I might only need to do half of that, and I might have 50 really high quality conversations to build repeatable the opportunity to have repeatable interactions with that person, and that's not valued or measured at all. And neither is the effort that goes
Jacqui Barnes: a hundred people or dialing a hundred numbers or knocking on X amount of doors and booking X amount of appraisals. But what we're not valuing is that I might only need to do half of that and I might have 50 really high quality conversations to build repeatable the opportunity to have repeatable interactions with that person and that's not valued or measured at all. And neither is the effort that goes
IMG 8158 - Video: into doing that.
Jacqui Barnes: Mm-hmm.
IMG 8158 - Video: Years ago I went and it was a conference in the
Peter Schravemade: Years ago I went and it was a conference in the
IMG 8158 - Video: US and the first four speakers were all hype speakers, you know, the kind we're talking about they got up and they got the room super excited, they were yelling and screaming stuff at each other. They were the kind of people that would encourage the salespersons to do a cold plunge at four a. This is this is yeah, no, no, no, you know, then you go and do an hour.
Peter Schravemade: US and the first four speakers were all hype speakers, you know, the kind of talking about they got up and they got the room super excited, they were yelling and screaming stuff at each other. They were the kind of people that would encourage the salespersons to do a a cold plunge at four AM in the morning. This is this is on the yeah, no, no, no, you know, then you go and do an hour
IMG 8158 - Video: meditation on mindfulness and then you do a thousand phone calls and you you're super pumped, you've got, you know, full on music going, you've got things in front of them that say believe in yourself, your dreams will come true. You're probably looking at a Mercedes or a jet that you want to own.
Peter Schravemade: meditation on mindfulness and then you do a thousand phone calls and you you're super pumped, you've got you know full on music going, you've got things in front of them that say believe in yourself, your dreams will come true. You're probably looking at a Mercedes or a jet that you want to own. the the first four speakers were of that ilk and they were they were right into the room. The room
IMG 8158 - Video: The the first four speakers were of that ilk and they were they were right into the room. The room was so fired up I thought they were gonna kill somebody at that point. And then this diminutive lady called Sarah Kelk, I remember K A L K E from Canada. I've never seen her since that day, but she got up and obviously whoever had prepared the conference hadn't done their due diligence on her messaging. She got up and she said, I I don't know I don't know what they're talking about. Like, here are my numbers and here is the G C I though.
Peter Schravemade: We were so fired up, I thought they were gonna kill somebody at that point. And then this diminutive lady called Sarah Kelk, I remember K-A-L-K-E from Canada. I've never seen her since that day, but she got up, and obviously, whoever had prepared the conference hadn't done their due diligence on her messaging. She got up and she said, I I don't know. don't know what they're talking about. Like, here are my numbers and here is the GCI, the
IMG 8158 - Video: the commission that I make. And she put that on the board and she said, I've got three kids at home and I don't care about any of those things. My mission is getting home to my kids and spending more time with them. So I'll go for the easiest path to doing that. And I remember you know, she put forward probably the best that I've ever seen, the best female orientated plan for going and getting going out there and making sales and being being good at it. A lot of it was about her sphere of influence.
Peter Schravemade: the commission that I make. Wow. And she put that on the board and she said, I've got three kids at home. and I don't care about any of those things. My mission is getting home to my kids and spending more time with them. So I'll go for the easiest path to doing that. And I remember you know, she put forward probably the best that I've ever seen, the best female oriented plan for going and getting going out there and making sales and being being good at it. A lot of it was about her sphere of influence. Yeah.
IMG 8158 - Video: Yeah. How she used to pick up people from her the the children's sports and
Peter Schravemade: How she used to pick up people from her the the children's sports and
IMG 8158 - Video: but it's a strategy and I literally spoke about that. I've got an agent that does that now, like the way that she she makes sure she's the class parent every year because in all the WhatsApp chat groups, guess what comes up every time her name goes in there? Yeah, like it's it is it is dead. It's so true. But I think the thing is though, right? Those first four speakers, they would have spoken to people in the room. There would be people that would follow that philosophy, and that's great. There's no doubt about
Peter Schravemade: For sure.
Jacqui Barnes: Strategy and I literally spoke about that. I've got an agent that does that now. Like the way that she she makes sure she's the class parent every year because in all the WhatsApp chat groups, guess what comes up every time her name goes in there? Yeah. Like it's so true. But I think the thing is though, right? Those first four speakers, they would have spoken to people in the room. There would be people that would follow that philosophy, and that's great.
Peter Schravemade: It is it is dead. There's no doubt about that.
IMG 8158 - Video: that.
Jacqui Barnes: There will also be people that follow that lady's philosophy too, but it's understanding that the thing that's gonna drive the first batch and the thing that's gonna drive the second batch are two different things. And knowing how to get the best out of each of each of them, that is a leader's responsibility and adjusting their leadership style.
IMG 8158 - Video: Will also be people that followed that lady's philosophy too, but it's understanding that the thing that's going to drive the first batch and the thing that's going to drive the second batch are two different things, and knowing how to get the best out of each of each of them that is a leader's responsibility and adjusting their leadership style to both.
Ellis Taylor: Both.
IMG 8158 - Video: Well, the thing that shocked me
Peter Schravemade: That shocked me is not the first four speakers because I'd had done a lot of conferences in the US and I'd seen that style. In fact, I'd seen those speakers deliver that same pitch multiple times. The thing that shocked me was actually having that
IMG 8158 - Video: is not the first four speakers because I'd had done a lot of conferences in the US and I'd seen that style. In fact, I'd seen those speakers deliver that same pitch multiple times. The thing that shocked me was actually having the That last message on the stage because it's not a popular one. it it it it for whatever reason, and I don't know whether it's the principles that don't like to hear it or that they're the majority of people might adhere to one rather than the other. but all of the it resonated to me because when I was
Peter Schravemade: last message on the stage because it's not a popular one. it it it it for whatever reason, and I don't know whether it's the principals that don't like to hear it or that they're the majority of people might adhere to one rather than the other. but all of the it resonated to me because when I was
IMG 8158 - Video: in real estate, all all of those principles were what I used to do to go and make sales, and I was I think I was pretty damn successful at doing it. but I wasn't doing you know these these things that I was told. I certainly wasn't.
Peter Schravemade: real estate or all of those principles were what I used to do to go and make sales and I was I think I was pretty damn successful at doing it but I wasn't doing you know these these things that I was told I certainly wasn't making a thousand calls a day so I don't like I I'm very much aware that different people you know are inspired by different things but I think our industry has a almost a tendency to go for the sensationalist or or or the repeatable that we can sort of go with
IMG 8158 - Video: And making a thousand calls a day. So I don't like I I'm very much aware that different people are inspired by different things, but I think our industry has a almost a tendency to go for the sensationalist or the repeatable that we can sort of go as
Peter Schravemade: a process and if you follow this you're more than likely due to ex succeed. But I think one of the things you've touched on in your your report is it probably doesn't it probably doesn't actually fit the box for a lot of the women that are out there.
IMG 8158 - Video: a process, and if you follow this, you're more than likely due to succeed. But I think one of the things you've touched on in your report is it probably doesn't it probably doesn't actually fit the box for a lot of the women that are out there. Yeah, and I mean look, there's men that
Jacqui Barnes: Yeah. And mean look, there's men that
IMG 8158 - Video: Would follow that philosophy as well. It's just that stereotypically mummy's generally at the school gate more than dad. Not in my household, but you know, yeah. In a lot. And you know, so and people, you know, there's lots of women that want to be a a the parent that goes to the school gate. Not me, I'm not interested, I don't want to do it, but you know,
Jacqui Barnes: would follow that philosophy as well. It's just that stereotypically mummy's generally at the school gate more than dad. Not in my household, but you know. Yeah in a lot And you know, so and people, you know, there's lots of women that want to be a a the parent that goes to the school gate. Not me, I'm not interested, I don't want to do it, but you know
Peter Schravemade: What?
IMG 8158 - Video: and what that's one of the the the motivations that I tap into as well is is you know, asking any candidate, but especially women in real estate who
Ellis Taylor: And wha that's one of the the the motivations that I tap into as well is is you know, asking any candidate, but especially women in real estate who I would like to move to tech, is like w what are you actually excited about going to work for? th when I hear the vibe in the office, the environment, the you know, the energy and stuff like that, I I it's gonna be very hard for me to take them across. But when I hear p
IMG 8158 - Video: I would like to move to tech, is like w what are you actually excited about going to work for? th when I hear the vibe in the office, the environment, the you know, the energy and stuff like that, I I it's gonna be very hard for me to take them across. But when I hear p like target the quiet achievers or those who are like a little bit like over the
Ellis Taylor: like target the quiet achievers or those who are like a little bit like over the, you know, twenty four seven mentality, high energy, let's jump on the phone stuff.
IMG 8158 - Video: you know, twenty four seven mentality, high energy, let's jump on the phone stuff. I
Ellis Taylor: I have a really clear message, it's like I you can come and wear what you want at this office. You can work from home two days a week. we're not going to stand up on on desks and scream all of our goals and motivations and what cars and jets that we want. we we are just coming to work to work as a team and it's going to be super enjoyable. As soon as I hear someone resonate with that, they're out. Yeah.
IMG 8158 - Video: clear message is like I you can come and wear what you want at this office. You can work from home two days a week. we're not going to stand up on on desks and scream all of our goals and motivations and what cars and jets that we want. we we are just coming to work to work as a team and it's going to be su super enjoyable. As soon as I hear someone resonate with that, they're out. Yeah.
Peter Schravemade: I I I think we're almost out of time for today, but to both of you, if I imagine there's agency owners listening, what what should they do before Monday to improve the way that they approach staff in general, I would say, but particularly onboarding new staff.
IMG 8158 - Video: I I I think we're almost out of time for today, but to both of you I if I imagine there's agency owners listening, what what should they do before Monday to improve the way that they approach staff in general, I would say, but particularly onboarding new staff?
Ellis Taylor: I might steal what your strongest message today has been, which I think really resonates, is listen to your people. you don't any sales team in the world can show you that it's not about having multiple
IMG 8158 - Video: I might steal what your strongest message today has been, which I think really resonates, is listen to your people. you don't know any sales team in the world can show you that it's not about having a multiple multiples of the same archetype of the the high energy or or or or or or super analytical or super attention to detail salesperson. It's having a mix of those.
Ellis Taylor: multiples of the same archetype of the the high energy or or or or or or super analytical or super attention to detail salesperson, it's having a mix of those
IMG 8158 - Video: To expand your portfolio, to talk to different clients that might resonate with person A and not person B. And then when you're listening to them, you can also understand their motivations and hopefully tailor a little bit more of a path to their success. If you do that, it's going to make
Ellis Taylor: to expand your portfolio to talk to different clients that might resonate with person A and not person B. and then when you're listening to them you can also understand their motivations and hopefully tailor a little bit more of a path to to their success. if you do that, it's gonna make
IMG 8158 - Video: make my job harder, but that's what what I'm giving up today. Free advice. What I would be doing is I'll be going to my current team, every single person, whether they're a salesperson.
Ellis Taylor: make my job harder but that's why what I'm giving up today.
Jacqui Barnes: Free advice. I what I would be doing is I'd be going to my current team, every single person, whether they're a salesperson
IMG 8158 - Video: Or not, whether they're male or female, every single team member, booking a one-on-one with them and I mean have stay meetings first of all rather than exit interviews. But I'd be asking them when you first started here, what helped you start well? What should I have done to help you get going better, faster? What would have made it easier? And then once you have the answers to those questions, use the information. It's all well and good to asking ask questions, but if you don't do anything with the answers, then it's it's pointless. But I would start.
Jacqui Barnes: or not, whether they're male or female, every single team member, booking a one-on-one with them and I mean have stay meetings first of all rather than exit interviews. But I'd be asking them when you first started here, what helped you start well? What should I have done to help you get going better, faster? What would have made it easier? And then once you have the answers to those questions. use the information. It's all well and good to asking ask questions, but if you don't do anything with the answers then it's it's pointless. But I would start
IMG 8158 - Video: By speaking to your team. Yeah, yeah. And and exc excellent advice there, Alice. I really appreciate you coming on and spilling the beans. so to speak. Stabbing myself on the point. Yeah, well, you know, the one thing I'd say to you is every every time I get up in front of an audience, I remind myself that there are so many people who aren't listening to this.
Jacqui Barnes: by speaking to your team.
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, yeah. And and exc excellent advice there, Alice. I really appreciate you coming on and spilling the beans. so to speak. Well, you know, the one thing I'd say to you is every every time I get up in front of an audience I remind myself that there are so many people who aren't listening to this.
Ellis Taylor: Stabbing myself on the foot there.
Jacqui Barnes: But should we feel special now or
IMG 8158 - Video: Should we feel special now? And and the the reality is the ones who are listening are probably the ones that run
Peter Schravemade: Yeah, and and the the reality is the ones who are listening are probably the ones that run pretty good offices. They will they will inevitably be motivating themselves to get better at what they do. That it it's always the way. unfortunately there is a side of real estate that will just continue on and I re I would imagine that will be a happy hunting ground,
IMG 8158 - Video: They will they will inevitably be motivating themselves to get better at what they do. That it it's always the way. unfortunately there is a side of real estate that will just continue on and I re I would imagine that will be a happy hunting ground.
Peter Schravemade: but we can always we can always hope that we improve the standards. Jackie, thank you so much for firstly for the report, but the a second time coming on and jatting about it.
IMG 8158 - Video: Can always we can always hope that we improve the standards. Jackie, thank you so much for firstly for the report, but a a second time coming on and jatting about it.
Peter Schravemade: If there's anything that we can do at before weekend to get it out any further, I'll have the links on all of the podcasts. No, that's all right. And I people can reach out to you and have a chat to you. Sure. do you want me to put your contact email at the bottom of it? Ellis, as far as you're concerned, if people are listening to this and that
IMG 8158 - Video: if there's anything that we can do at before the weekend to get it out any further, I'll have the links on all of the podcasts. No, that's all right. And I people can reach out to you and have a chat to you. Sure. do you want me to put your contact email at the bottom of it? Ellis, as far as you're concerned, if people are listening to this and that
Peter Schravemade: the another area that we haven't dealt with today is in tech recruitment for real estate, which is becoming quite big. Are you are you in that area at the moment?
IMG 8158 - Video: the another area that we haven't dealt with today is in tech recruitment for real estate, which is becoming quite big. Are you are you in that area at the moment? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And and more and more you know real estate companies are becoming more you know tech focused. So it's doing a lot of work there. Yeah, so I'll also put the contact details for real time Australia down and then if anyone's got any questions for you they can find them forward. But Ellison, Jackie, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I really appreciate your time and we'll I'll
Ellis Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And and more and more you know, real estate companies are becoming more, you know, tech focused. A lot of work there.
Peter Schravemade: Focus. Yep. So I'll also put the contact details for real time Australia down and then if anyone's got any questions for you they can find them forward. But Ellis and Jackie, thank you so much for being on the podcast. I really appreciate your time and we'll I'm sure we'll see you before long.
IMG 8158 - Video: sure we'll see you before long. Thank you. Thanks Pete. Thanks Pete.
Ellis Taylor: Thank you.
Jacqui Barnes: Thanks, Bate. Thanks.
