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Life's twists and turns bring us to a plethora of destinations, byways, and discoveries by surprise, out of order, and at dizzyingly varying speeds. Who would have thought that my first law firm job would lead me to meet true believer criminal defense and civil rights lawyer Joseph Margulies, via his conservative father (and my essential mentor) Irv Margulies (see his eye opening unglossed interview on his WWII combat experience in Germany) congratulating my transition to public defender work and happily telling me of his son Joe's working in the same field.
When Joe and I first spoke in late 2025, he told us about his metamorphosis from his clients being a means to fighting the opponent, to his clients being the raison d'être for his work, together with his gift for being a great writer (with several published books).
Now Joe is back, talking about his essential book available September 15, 2026, by Beacon Press, entitled Cast Out: A cure for a forgiving society in an age of incarceration. Having rivetedly read the Cast Out galley proof, I know my fellow criminal defense lawyers will find it a great read for humanizing our clients in the settlement negotiation, trial, and any sentencing stages. Remaining readers will find themselves on Joe's journey with several people who committed monstrous acts, but who still had or later developed essential elements of humanity, with some of them emerging into caring and thoughtful humans who seem to be the positive twins of their former scary selves.
Joe aptly says "the other" does not exist, rather than just us. Monster humans are not reality, versus people doing monstrous things. He does not even except Hitler from this concept. Listen why.
Joe begins Cast Out with an exploration of a January 6, 2021, defendant who pleaded guilty and later got pardoned along with the vast majority of the other January 6 defendants. In this interview, I tell Joe how one of my excellent taijiquan teachers was one of those pardoned defendants. After I sent this teacher a brief message about my concerns about that soon after the incident, I put that by the wayside, recognizing he was not the other, and that January 6 did not detract at all from his greatness and generosity as a martial arts teacher, with whom I continue to sense hands / spar and learn.
Joe's book tour will for Cast Out is expected to include Busboys & Poets (I await learning the location) on October 11, 2026, at 5:00 p.m.
This full episode is available on YouTube, podcasting, and Apple podcasts.
This podcast with Fairfax, Virginia criminal / DUI lawyer Jon Katz is playable on all devices at podcast.BeatTheProsecution.com. For more information, visit https://KatzJustice.com or contact us at info@KatzJustice.com, 703-383-1100 (calling), or 571-406-7268 (text).
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