WEBVTT
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00:00:10.011Welcome to another episode of Backlash Podcast. This week we're going to talk
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00:00:12.976to Michael Hansen, Namakoggan Area Guide Service.
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00:00:16.491And Michael primarily guides in northern Wisconsin, but he's been playing around
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00:00:19.661a little bit in Minnesota. So we'll kind of hit both places.
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00:00:22.585Hopefully many of you are still out on the water chasing muskies.
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00:00:26.461I know we see it in sails, things are starting to dip, but the weather's still
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00:00:29.651beautiful. Michael, you know, I appreciate you coming on this morning and helping
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00:00:31.241me out with this podcast. So thanks for coming on.
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00:00:34.491Oh, no, thanks for having me, Jeff. So it's good chatting with you.
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00:00:37.781What are you seeing out there on the water these days as far as like pressure?
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00:00:39.166Are you seeing less people?
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00:00:42.876You know, there's definitely less people.
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00:00:49.461But it seems like at least in my area up here, we get a big push of guys that
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00:00:52.751do come up for the first couple weeks of October.
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00:00:57.232So, I mean, it's down a little bit, but there's still a good amount of people
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00:00:59.851out pounding the waters around here, which is good.
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00:01:05.461We like seeing the, seeing the resorts filled up and the restaurants being visited
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00:01:09.891by all the folks that make their way into the area. Yeah.
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00:01:14.011I'm sure there's many that are, you know, many of those businesses like you
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00:01:17.501spoke of, they're, they're thankful for the extra, the extra season. Right.
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00:01:21.381I know that. I mean, heck. Absolutely. Even if you're not fishing right now,
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00:01:26.178you're just out enjoying the weather. I mean, it's 82 degrees here today as we record this. Yeah.
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00:01:29.954I would say it's typically a pretty crazy stretch for October,
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00:01:32.564but honestly, the way things have been the last handful of seasons,
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00:01:35.373this is pretty normal for October. Actually, we always see this,
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00:01:36.874you know, this weird warmup.
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00:01:41.314I always tell people, you know, like you want to see this nice curve, right?
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00:01:45.094You want to see the, you go from October or, you know, your summer peaks,
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00:01:49.934like just slowly dropping off. I don't want to see, I don't want to see a daily
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00:01:52.956where the water temperatures start to increase, especially in October.
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00:01:55.454And obviously we're starting to see that now, I would assume.
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00:01:57.774I'm guessing it's not a lot because the nights have still been cold,
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00:02:00.744but, you know, from your, if you get on the water in the morning and you get
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00:02:04.324off in the afternoon, there's got to be a three, four degree for sure surface
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00:02:05.940temperature increase, I'd imagine, huh?
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00:02:10.524Absolutely. You know, at least, you know, we didn't see it that hard,
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00:02:14.144but we only had a two or three day warmup up here.
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00:02:17.714So, and yeah, it was, it was significantly hotter, but we had big,
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00:02:22.114big winds and all it really did was just kind of mix it all up a little bit.
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00:02:25.891So, yeah, it did climb a little bit, but nothing too, too crazy.
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00:02:30.244But it did negatively impact the fishing like it usually does.
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00:02:35.984It makes for, you know, those nice weather days make it tougher on the fish.
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00:02:41.754But overall, I cannot remember, you know, within the past three,
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00:02:45.224four years of having a normal September, kind of like what you were saying,
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00:02:47.379where we had a nice gradual drop.
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00:02:52.657And, and like you also said, we, we expect to have a warmup.
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00:02:56.760I, I probably still expect to have an 80 degree day in November.
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00:03:01.187You never know up here now. So, but overall, this is one of the better falls
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00:03:05.742that we've had as far as just a nice progressive drop on water temps. Right.
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00:03:08.777Yeah. I would say up until recently, it was, that's what it was.
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00:03:11.309It was just a nice steady decline. Perfect. What you're looking for.
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00:03:14.897Much like you talked about, I had, I was at a football game last week and somebody
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00:03:16.547was like, well, are you going to go fishing this weekend? I'm like,
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00:03:18.957eh, I'm not really super interested in it. And they're like,
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00:03:21.297well, why? It'll be a really nice day. And I'm like, yeah, it'll be a nice day
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00:03:22.303on the water. It'll be awesome.
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00:03:26.287But it's not going to be, it's not always the most productive.
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00:03:32.457Whenever I feel like the water is doing or the, or the weather is doing things
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00:03:35.138that it shouldn't necessarily do during that time of year.
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00:03:38.127Obviously there's a few exceptions to the rule. I'd say like cold fronts in
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00:03:41.807August, not necessarily a bad thing, but you know, if like, if you have a really
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00:03:45.467hot spring, like early season, like we start the season off and you get like
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00:03:46.820some really hot, warm spells.
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00:03:51.337Doesn't always bode well you you want just that steady seasonal temperatures
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00:03:54.097to make for best muskie fishing but you know there's,
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00:03:58.407there's varying degrees of that right i mean there's the outlier muskies do
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00:04:01.447whatever muskies want to do so the only way to really catch them is just get
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00:04:04.540out there and and start chucking and it sounds like you guys have been doing that,
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00:04:09.667yeah yeah absolutely i mean you can't you can't pick your best weather days
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00:04:13.193and stay busy at the same time you just got to go with the flow and.
00:04:14.114 -->
00:04:18.034And kind of switch things up based on how the fish want it typically when we
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00:04:21.624have those big warm-ups this late in the year i tend to go a little bit deeper
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00:04:23.900it seems like those fish don't want to move too too,
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00:04:29.044bottom when that happens so we just slow everything down and stay out a little
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00:04:33.162bit deeper not everything's up shallow like you know people think,
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00:04:38.694there's plenty of fish sitting out in that 20 to 25 foot range and you know
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00:04:42.010just as many of them sitting up in one to two feet of water so,
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00:04:46.375you just kind of got to play around with it when those times get a little tough,
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00:04:50.894so at this time of year when you're fishing in that 20 25 degrees like how deep
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00:04:54.544are you trying to typically get your baits down how far will the fish react
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00:04:58.096on that kind of stuff are you in what's what's the tools of choice i guess i would say,
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00:05:03.144you know it's a lot of throwing a lot of rubber during that time and with the
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00:05:07.301water temperatures the way that they are it's it's dumb to not have a sucker out,
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00:05:11.564So, I just tend to keep that sucker down a little bit deeper as far as like,
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00:05:13.959you know, five to seven feet off the bottom.
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00:05:17.564Normally, I like to keep them up a lot higher when the weather's better to get
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00:05:21.644those fish to chase a little bit more. But when those fish are glued to the
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00:05:24.914bottom like that, they don't seem to want to move too, too far to get a meal.
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00:05:31.476Work spots even slower and just making sure that our baits are getting down
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00:05:36.476there and staying down there so we're not really ripping the rubber more longer
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00:05:39.423pulls counting the baits down too is a big deal,
00:05:39.870 -->
00:05:43.259and then again working wind jerk baits as well just,
00:05:43.781 -->
00:05:48.446weighted down pretty good so that they stay in that deeper water column for
00:05:48.446 -->
00:05:53.926a longer time tend to get a few more bites that way when the weather decides
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00:05:55.366it's going to be too nice for,
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00:05:59.396them i ask this question all the time michael i know you probably throw dogs
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00:06:01.994and you throw deuces how do you choose between one or the other,
00:06:02.787 -->
00:06:06.766you know i i tend to do more medusas up shallower i,
00:06:07.526 -->
00:06:11.718i don't care how hard you work a husky or a monster though when you're up shallow
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00:06:18.136if it's a regular sink not the shallow version that bait will get down five
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00:06:21.806to six feet no matter how hard you are ripping it but,
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00:06:28.136it seems like i can keep it at that six foot level for a lot easier than a bulldog would,
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00:06:32.956during the times where i am fishing out a little bit deeper this time of year
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00:06:37.156i tend to throw a lot more dogs i can work them slower they stay in that water
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00:06:41.416column a little bit better they don't they don't dive too too fast based on
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00:06:43.254how you're working them, but,
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00:06:48.026yeah, I just, I've always done better on dogs later on in the year,
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00:06:50.962you know, and throwing beavers and stuff like that too, but.
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00:06:55.815That's not to say you can't catch them on a do so, but. That's a bait I don't
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00:06:57.958hear mentioned real often is a beaver.
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00:07:03.235You, what's the, what's the, you know, I guess your, your cadence,
00:07:03.235 -->
00:07:06.745what's your retrieve like with that? Are you adding additional weight to it?
00:07:06.745 -->
00:07:09.146Is there a particular one that you like more than another one?
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00:07:15.830Yeah, typically I, I really, only in Wisconsin, I throw them late, late in the fall.
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00:07:20.594And we've caught a lot of fish late in the fall on those beavers over the past few years.
00:07:21.001 -->
00:07:24.495And I've talked to Brian about it you know it's not like they don't work for
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00:07:30.425me any other time of the year but it just really shines the later it goes and
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00:07:35.286I keep them pretty heavy you know running around one and a half two ounces on the front and then I,
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00:07:40.435I put on a one-eighth ounce bell sinker where you would tie your leader to the
00:07:40.435 -->
00:07:43.233bait itself just on the split ring on a standalone
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00:07:48.750I watched that in a video I believe Austin Wigerman did that I hope that's correct
00:07:49.058 -->
00:07:53.035where that And that weight when you're running it has a nice little knock.
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00:07:55.375It hits into the head of that beaver a little bit.
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00:07:59.715So it helps call them in a little bit more. But, you know, we're just working
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00:08:02.195them slow. Nothing crazy, nothing too erratic.
00:08:02.515 -->
00:08:06.135I always like to do long pulls on them, you know, where I'm sweeping that rod
00:08:06.135 -->
00:08:07.676about three to four feet.
00:08:08.065 -->
00:08:10.166And it's not a fast pull by any means.
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00:08:16.755And I really like to keep the slack out of the line as far as like when I'm reeling that bait down.
00:08:17.329 -->
00:08:24.525I want that or the slack out of the bait I want their the bait to stay in one
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00:08:29.857spot but I don't want to give it too much slack to where it's diving down.
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00:08:34.825That way I can keep it at a certain depth throughout the entire length of the
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00:08:39.355cast if that makes sense kind of like crankbaits too I do that a lot late late
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00:08:44.134in the fall just long long pulls and when I'm reeling up that slack keep it kind of taught,
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00:08:48.935not too taught to where the bait's moving but just enough to where that wooden
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00:08:55.166bait isn't going to fly up due to the amount of slack that's in the line sure that makes sense.
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00:09:01.674Like, let's kind of jump back a little bit. So I kind of want to cover the entire
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00:09:04.834season a little bit. How would you say, like, if you had to rate it,
00:09:04.834 -->
00:09:07.936how are you going to rate your season for this year? Like, what are you seeing
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00:09:10.461on the water the entire year? How's it been?
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00:09:14.724Yeah, you know, it's been okay. I would rate it like a 7 out of 10.
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00:09:17.458It's definitely had better years over the past.
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00:09:22.721But you know it all it all depends on how that fish is hooked and if you can
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00:09:27.026get it to the boat or not biting wise it was a great year we had a lot of bites
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00:09:29.478a lot of nipping fish unfortunately,
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00:09:34.081you know and you get new anglers in the boat or even experienced anglers and
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00:09:36.511something goes wrong and you know it's.
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00:09:42.271That's musky fishing but overall the bite was good but catches overall catches
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00:09:44.005and getting him into the net we're down,
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00:09:49.441a little bit more than years past but it's gonna happen yeah so there's still
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00:09:51.157plenty of fish to be caught,
00:09:51.633 -->
00:09:54.571you know obviously we've beaten this dead horse a million times right stockings
00:09:54.571 -->
00:09:59.181down angling pressures up so you know catch rates might suffer a little bit
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00:10:02.661but overall you know you'd say being out on the water all the time like there's
00:10:02.661 -->
00:10:04.294still plenty of fish to be caught on the water,
00:10:04.919 -->
00:10:08.851there's plenty of fish and you know it's And especially,
00:10:09.431 -->
00:10:13.941you know, over the years of running a live scope late in the fall and just watching
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00:10:17.401a sucker, you know, not necessarily driving around sniping muskies.
00:10:17.401 -->
00:10:22.781But we were fishing classic areas, having tons of fish coming up.
00:10:22.781 -->
00:10:26.691And then it's like, well, let's try this area that doesn't look as good.
00:10:26.691 -->
00:10:32.561It's still a steep drop off. It's no deep rock, sand, junk weeds nearby.
00:10:32.561 -->
00:10:37.577Let's try that. And the amount of fish that are in these lakes, there's plenty of them.
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00:10:43.471And yeah you know they're smart i really don't doubt how smart these animals
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00:10:45.254can be most of the times and,
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00:10:50.401you got to fool them at the right times and if you're not there at the right
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00:10:54.591place at the right time throwing the right lure the right way it wants it you're
00:10:54.591 -->
00:10:56.763going to go right past that fit so.
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00:11:00.977You know my experience i think there's plenty of muskies up here,
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00:11:04.761do we want more do we want it to continue to go in that direction,
00:11:04.761 -->
00:11:09.744obviously more is always better, but there's people should not shy away from,
00:11:10.186 -->
00:11:13.211visiting Northern Wisconsin due to the fact that,
00:11:13.811 -->
00:11:18.225stocking numbers have gone down a little bit. By any means, I wouldn't say that.
00:11:19.207 -->
00:11:22.802Well, let's talk about smart. So you said something there that these fish are
00:11:22.802 -->
00:11:26.332smart. And in some ways, I will agree with you. Kind of like smart,
00:11:26.332 -->
00:11:27.937like my golden retriever is smart, right?
00:11:28.320 -->
00:11:30.722There's certain things that my golden retriever does, and you would think he
00:11:30.722 -->
00:11:32.772doesn't have a brain at all. And then you're like, oh, wait,
00:11:32.772 -->
00:11:34.091maybe he does actually have a brain.
00:11:35.182 -->
00:11:39.452So to tie that into muskies, I'm just curious. So you mentioned live scope a
00:11:39.452 -->
00:11:42.092little bit. I don't want to get into the debate on that. That's not something
00:11:42.092 -->
00:11:43.647I care to talk about too much on here.
00:11:43.989 -->
00:11:49.857Do you think that muskies would become conditioned to that or not?
00:11:50.706 -->
00:11:53.934Come conditioned to the live scope? Yeah.
00:11:54.305 -->
00:11:57.792I mean, the same way that I guess they could become conditioned to any type
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00:12:00.452of sonar. Is that something that you think about? Is that something you worry
00:12:00.452 -->
00:12:03.065about? Like, what do you think? What do you think about that?
00:12:03.769 -->
00:12:09.178I think that trolling motor disrupts more bites now more than ever.
00:12:10.117 -->
00:12:15.065I really do those trolling motors even the new brushless ones they are loud
00:12:15.216 -->
00:12:20.830and those fish if they hear that thing going on and off on and off or you know that,
00:12:21.402 -->
00:12:25.479it's constantly going i know a lot of people like to do consistent mode on it
00:12:25.479 -->
00:12:30.559i am not for that but you know if you're turning into the wind and it's that
00:12:30.559 -->
00:12:34.522blades catching that current wrong it'll throw a weird vibration in there,
00:12:35.003 -->
00:12:40.179i really think the trolling motors screw up more fish catches than anything nowadays.
00:12:41.169 -->
00:12:45.479That's interesting that you you're not a you're not a constant huh you're you're
00:12:45.479 -->
00:12:48.052on off on off on off with the with the power on it,
00:12:48.733 -->
00:12:53.849yep yep i like to do the momentary myself and you know and i've done days and
00:12:53.849 -->
00:12:57.888days up here with you know where i know where there's fish,
00:12:58.381 -->
00:13:03.769and i'll i'll run through those spots with absolutely no sonar going whatsoever
00:13:04.149 -->
00:13:08.552you know and work the area good juicy conditions,
00:13:09.109 -->
00:13:13.769like the time that they should bite and then you go and do it again and this
00:13:13.769 -->
00:13:17.538time you turn on all your sonar units and they're everywhere and they're just not biting,
00:13:18.349 -->
00:13:21.819you know and i've done that multiple times even this year up in minnesota i
00:13:21.819 -->
00:13:27.710ran a live scope off the side of the boat for the first two days I was up there just to kind of get,
00:13:28.308 -->
00:13:32.899and I a good path down to where the weed edge was because I didn't want to be
00:13:32.899 -->
00:13:35.837on top of the weeds too too much I didn't want to
00:13:36.215 -->
00:13:40.719be too far away from them and then once I got that pattern down I stopped even
00:13:40.719 -->
00:13:45.288bringing the live scope in the boat and catch rates didn't change whatsoever,
00:13:45.775 -->
00:13:48.915when they were going they were going and when they weren't they weren't,
00:13:50.055 -->
00:13:54.303I've talked about this on numerous podcasts in the past, this season for sure.
00:13:54.303 -->
00:13:58.123Are you finding moon windows are a major factor this season,
00:13:58.123 -->
00:14:02.061or is that something that you just go fishing and, I guess, hope for the best?
00:14:03.373 -->
00:14:07.033Especially in Wisconsin, I just go fishing and hope for the best.
00:14:07.033 -->
00:14:11.015I run a lot of long days up here, so we cover a lot of those periods.
00:14:11.474 -->
00:14:15.848And I always try to be on the best spots at all times regardless.
00:14:16.319 -->
00:14:21.653Us but in minnesota definitely in this year seemed like any time just before
00:14:21.653 -->
00:14:24.743that major or just after the major was hot,
00:14:25.593 -->
00:14:29.763we did not have any significant impacts on,
00:14:30.431 -->
00:14:35.333fish behavior due to the moon rise itself you know like what you would think
00:14:35.333 -->
00:14:40.563is like the prime time especially my last trip over to minnesota it seemed like
00:14:40.563 -->
00:14:43.042once that moon rose it was over,
00:14:43.719 -->
00:14:48.293and i don't get it if there was clouds at night, we tended to put a few more
00:14:48.293 -->
00:14:53.944fish in the boat, but if it was a clear night and that moon was coming out, it was done, over. Yeah.
00:14:55.029 -->
00:14:58.351And sometimes that I'm not, I'm not going to say I'm not a believer in the moon. I am.
00:14:58.871 -->
00:15:02.931But I will say like, if you pay, like if you were to just fish an entire season,
00:15:02.931 -->
00:15:04.073don't look at moon phases.
00:15:05.431 -->
00:15:08.801I'm just curious what your catch rate and like how things like your cat,
00:15:08.801 -->
00:15:12.191like if you logged at all, how it would play out knowing what you,
00:15:12.831 -->
00:15:15.341like, all right, you know, like you just go fish the season,
00:15:15.341 -->
00:15:18.758don't pay any attention to it and then see how it plays out versus,
00:15:19.176 -->
00:15:21.031you know, knowing what all the moon phases are.
00:15:21.031 -->
00:15:25.581Because sometimes I wonder if we don't fish harder, put it on your best spots,
00:15:25.581 -->
00:15:28.981all that kind of stuff, just because there's a moon phase. Does that make any sense?
00:15:29.683 -->
00:15:33.071No, no, I totally get that. This is a good way to look at it,
00:15:33.071 -->
00:15:38.841Jeff. When I was up in Minnesota, like the lake would empty out after a primary
00:15:38.841 -->
00:15:41.141major minor. I mean, it was done.
00:15:41.605 -->
00:15:46.139And if we had a killer moon set, you know, it was full moon up there,
00:15:46.574 -->
00:15:51.966like there was people out there before us fishing that, and they were leaving,
00:15:52.222 -->
00:15:53.748and they said it was garbage.
00:15:54.253 -->
00:16:00.244And then we went out there, pounded away all day, and saw an unbelievable amount of giant fish.
00:16:00.592 -->
00:16:04.241And we were pretty much the only ones out there. I think more people are just
00:16:04.241 -->
00:16:06.588focusing on those times.
00:16:09.151 -->
00:16:12.567And if it works out, of course, you're going to believe in the moon even more.
00:16:12.975 -->
00:16:17.751And I'm in your boat, I still pay attention to the moon. But is it an end all
00:16:17.751 -->
00:16:22.031be all? Absolutely not. But I've seen some magical things during moons.
00:16:22.031 -->
00:16:25.923And I've seen some absolute, you know, I call them major disappointments.
00:16:26.846 -->
00:16:30.797Yeah. And like I said, I, I'm not, I'm not trying to be a conspiracy theorist,
00:16:30.797 -->
00:16:33.857right? I believe in the moon, but I also sometimes wonder if it's not a little
00:16:33.857 -->
00:16:35.254self-fulfilling prophecy, right?
00:16:35.666 -->
00:16:39.777Oh yeah. I caught, I caught one during the moon. Well, you were on what you
00:16:39.777 -->
00:16:43.587consider to be your A spot, or if you had a fish located or,
00:16:43.947 -->
00:16:47.207you know, you're not taking a break, you're not eating a sandwich,
00:16:47.207 -->
00:16:49.098you're fishing hard during that time.
00:16:49.451 -->
00:16:53.337You know if you if you could remain you know had that same intensity throughout
00:16:53.337 -->
00:16:57.677the course the entire course of a day I wonder you know what would happen as
00:16:57.677 -->
00:17:00.717far as that stuff's concerned I don't know that's just me like just thinking
00:17:00.717 -->
00:17:02.480about the sport in general right,
00:17:03.206 -->
00:17:07.217no absolutely and that's what kind of blew my mind when I was in Minnesota I
00:17:07.217 -->
00:17:11.597mean it was the lack of muskie anglers on the waters we were fishing up there
00:17:11.597 -->
00:17:14.847was just it was unbelievable I mean,
00:17:15.623 -->
00:17:20.537we were having most of these lights to ourselves and like i said you see them
00:17:20.537 -->
00:17:25.538show up for the prime moon phases and they were gone once it was over,
00:17:26.119 -->
00:17:30.297and you know we had some really great days up there and we had some really bad
00:17:30.297 -->
00:17:34.787days out in there and some of the bad and the bad days were strictly because
00:17:34.787 -->
00:17:39.052it was bad weather i mean it got too nice out and the fish just kind of shut down.
00:17:40.751 -->
00:17:43.657You know, Michael, since you do fish over in Minnesota, I'm just curious,
00:17:43.657 -->
00:17:45.907like, what's your thoughts on the Minnesota fisheries?
00:17:45.907 -->
00:17:49.627Because obviously, let's just say, oh, I don't know, we got to go maybe back
00:17:49.627 -->
00:17:53.147to like 10 years. And everybody was like, Minnesota, Minnesota,
00:17:53.147 -->
00:17:56.992Minnesota, you got to follow what Minnesota does. It might even be farther than 10 years.
00:17:57.393 -->
00:18:00.977This is how it's supposed to be done. Everything's better in Minnesota.
00:18:00.977 -->
00:18:05.207Like, is that still the case? Because I don't know. I don't fish Minnesota,
00:18:05.207 -->
00:18:08.840so I can't give you a yes or no answer. But I'm just curious what your thoughts on it.
00:18:09.235 -->
00:18:14.847Is minnesota still like the mecca of musky fishing you know it's man it's,
00:18:15.507 -->
00:18:19.639i i love my greenies over here that's why i still that's why i live here and
00:18:20.052 -->
00:18:24.217i like to treat minnesota like those three or four times i slide over there
00:18:24.217 -->
00:18:25.717throughout the season it's a treat,
00:18:26.260 -->
00:18:30.287before i moved up to northern wisconsin this was a treat to come up here and
00:18:30.287 -->
00:18:35.357like that drive up to northern wisconsin was one of the best drives you could ever take,
00:18:35.932 -->
00:18:42.027but you know i i still think minnesota has every bit of you know really great
00:18:42.027 -->
00:18:46.987muskie fisheries over there and the only real difference over there is you know,
00:18:47.467 -->
00:18:52.677i would say the activity of the muskie's boat side is more exciting more figure
00:18:52.677 -->
00:18:56.787eights more follows and overall just seeing more and more,
00:18:57.287 -->
00:19:02.677big big fish rather than kind of sifting through the classic northern Wisconsin
00:19:02.677 -->
00:19:07.954ones where you really, really got to grind it out to find a legitimate 30 plus pounder.
00:19:09.017 -->
00:19:13.942I mean we were on 30 plus pounders in minnesota you know pretty much every day
00:19:13.942 -->
00:19:19.562we were out there we saw one if not one we saw a dozen and that's what's kind
00:19:19.562 -->
00:19:22.495of cool about sliding over there a little bit but,
00:19:23.157 -->
00:19:28.062i would never ever want to be over there full time again it's kind of like a
00:19:28.062 -->
00:19:33.502little treat to get over there so minnesota still has it going on i think wisconsin
00:19:33.502 -->
00:19:35.961fisheries are still remaining very strong
00:19:36.401 -->
00:19:38.672just fish are just a little bit tougher.
00:19:39.772 -->
00:19:44.572To trick nowadays well i kind of think as musky anglers we're kind of spoiled
00:19:44.572 -->
00:19:48.392sometimes with what we have for a lot of the fisheries i'd be i'd be curious
00:19:48.392 -->
00:19:52.775to know like if we went back to i don't know the the 80s like.
00:19:53.612 -->
00:19:56.432What what do you suppose the fisheries were like then are they better or worse
00:19:56.432 -->
00:19:59.282than what they are now because there was a lot of factors back in the 80s it
00:19:59.282 -->
00:20:02.892definitely was hurting musky populations more than what we were.
00:20:02.892 -->
00:20:05.261Catch and release was still barely maybe just a thing.
00:20:05.639 -->
00:20:08.292I know we were whacking them over the heads. We were shooting them with guns,
00:20:08.292 -->
00:20:11.012like a lot of just, you know, crazy musky stuff.
00:20:11.012 -->
00:20:14.472So like, do you think maybe sometimes the stuff we whine about as musky anglers
00:20:14.472 -->
00:20:19.582today is just like 2026 type problems? Whereas in reality, like we still have
00:20:19.582 -->
00:20:22.051it really, really good compared to what they had historically.
00:20:22.770 -->
00:20:26.239Yeah, you know, and I think back in the 80s, you know, those,
00:20:26.639 -->
00:20:30.009I mean, look at the tackle that we get to use now and just the overall gear.
00:20:30.009 -->
00:20:34.959It's totally night and day difference. But those fish weren't seeing as many baits.
00:20:35.319 -->
00:20:40.942Yes, though, there's plenty of whacking going on, you know, killing the muskies back in the day.
00:20:41.406 -->
00:20:46.009But it also kind of makes you think, is that newly, you know,
00:20:46.009 -->
00:20:49.319the new 40 inch statewide limit, is that hurting it?
00:20:49.743 -->
00:20:54.679I believe that was gosh I don't want to screw this up was it Dick Pearson who.
00:20:55.479 -->
00:21:01.389No oh my gosh why can't I think right now legendary guy but he wanted you know
00:21:01.389 -->
00:21:06.456he was still whacking a few fish up here and he was claiming that,
00:21:07.042 -->
00:21:11.466there's too many muskies in the lake to grow bigger fish and I could totally see that,
00:21:12.017 -->
00:21:16.209you know and it's kind of what game do you want to play do you want fish all
00:21:16.209 -->
00:21:17.654week to try to catch a giant,
00:21:18.182 -->
00:21:23.419or do you want to have follows and engaging fish and the opportunity to catch
00:21:23.419 -->
00:21:27.449a few of them even though they're going to be smaller so it's you got to choose
00:21:27.449 -->
00:21:29.808your pick your poison on it.
00:21:30.859 -->
00:21:34.462You know you can even look back at mille Lacs back in the days when those fish,
00:21:35.166 -->
00:21:40.499were starting to reach that you know the top end of their size and I mean everybody
00:21:40.499 -->
00:21:44.499and their mother was going over to Mille Lacs and everybody had a shot at catching
00:21:44.859 -->
00:21:50.044a 50 plus inch animal that weighed into the 40 plus pound range.
00:21:50.625 -->
00:21:54.599And there's still plenty of muskies out there. People just got lazy,
00:21:54.599 -->
00:21:56.035you know, and the fish got smarter.
00:21:57.222 -->
00:22:03.008Let's talk about, so you talked about, you know, like people looking for top
00:22:03.008 -->
00:22:06.618end size and all that stuff. Like your average customer that gets in your boat,
00:22:06.618 -->
00:22:09.863what do you think they're looking for on a day-to-day basis?
00:22:10.175 -->
00:22:13.838Are they looking to just catch a muskie? Are they looking to catch a personal
00:22:13.838 -->
00:22:17.443best? Like, what do you see out there? What's the average angler looking for these days?
00:22:18.083 -->
00:22:21.718The average angler wants to catch fish. They don't, you know,
00:22:21.718 -->
00:22:25.402and I would say more, more of them just want to catch fish.
00:22:25.839 -->
00:22:30.362For my repeat guys you know the guys that i have out from anywhere from,
00:22:30.820 -->
00:22:36.834you know 10 to 25 plus days out of the year i have a good group of those guys
00:22:37.113 -->
00:22:41.240they're looking for the big ones and they're willing to grind it out to catch big ones,
00:22:41.690 -->
00:22:45.768but there's you know with some of those same guys in that group i've had them
00:22:45.768 -->
00:22:48.815where they're like dude we gotta we just gotta go catch one,
00:22:49.459 -->
00:22:55.438and we go and catch a few on a small puddle get that out of our system and get back to grinding and,
00:22:56.141 -->
00:23:00.638and see what happens but yeah i would say the average angler just mainly wants
00:23:00.638 -->
00:23:02.449to catch fish and that's okay.
00:23:03.297 -->
00:23:08.537And that's what, that's, what's nice about having, uh, being up in Northern
00:23:08.537 -->
00:23:13.177Wisconsin, you have those options, you know, to go play in the small puddles
00:23:13.177 -->
00:23:17.073and get some action, or you can go swing through the fences and go for a big one.
00:23:17.679 -->
00:23:21.427Yeah, I would, I think I would agree with you. I think, I think there are a
00:23:21.427 -->
00:23:24.367subset of people that do, that's all they want to catch is they want to catch
00:23:24.367 -->
00:23:25.514the biggest one that's out there.
00:23:25.944 -->
00:23:30.217They've caught a lot or whatever, but I would say your average angler is probably
00:23:30.582 -->
00:23:33.187just looking to just looking to have some action, right?
00:23:33.187 -->
00:23:36.737They just want to, they want a decent shot at putting one in the net.
00:23:36.737 -->
00:23:42.187They want a decent shot at having one follow, just something to keep them, keep them involved.
00:23:42.187 -->
00:23:47.287I would say that as much as we, you know, you, me, we like muskies our entire
00:23:47.287 -->
00:23:52.386lives. That's not the, that's not reality for, I would say many of the people that chase these fish.
00:23:53.086 -->
00:23:57.447No, absolutely not. And that's good though, too. You know, it's,
00:23:57.447 -->
00:24:00.587it's, it's good to want to just go catch fish.
00:24:00.927 -->
00:24:03.767Like I have nothing against that by any means.
00:24:04.627 -->
00:24:08.123For me, I've been chasing these things now since I was 12 years old.
00:24:08.646 -->
00:24:13.097You know, if I have a day off and I have a shot at a big one,
00:24:13.097 -->
00:24:14.741I'm going to grind it out for a big one.
00:24:15.194 -->
00:24:18.824But that's not to shame anybody that just wants to go catch fish.
00:24:19.947 -->
00:24:23.017You kind of find what you want to do. It's no different than deer hunting.
00:24:23.017 -->
00:24:27.317I mean, I don't shoot deer. I've never deer hunted. But there's guys that only
00:24:27.317 -->
00:24:30.807want the ones with the big antlers and there's ones that just want to go out
00:24:30.807 -->
00:24:33.488there and blast a few deer and put them in the freezer
00:24:33.905 -->
00:24:37.627for the thrill and the fun of it because I mean that's ultimately what we're
00:24:37.627 -->
00:24:39.229doing this for is the hunt.
00:24:40.238 -->
00:24:44.795Yeah, that's, that's it. Exactly. I mean, that's all you, that's how you said it.
00:24:45.120 -->
00:24:47.432Uh, for sometimes it's, for me, it's just about getting out,
00:24:47.432 -->
00:24:51.832reset myself, just taking in, you know, all the scenery, everything that,
00:24:51.832 -->
00:24:54.192that getting out on the water has to offer, right?
00:24:54.192 -->
00:24:57.083There's something that's therapeutic about it. Just getting out,
00:24:57.972 -->
00:25:00.442whether you catch one, you don't catch one, whatever, you know,
00:25:00.442 -->
00:25:03.591sometimes I hate to say, you got to stop and smell the roses a little bit, you know,
00:25:03.985 -->
00:25:08.562take a look around, enjoy everything that's, that comes with getting out of,
00:25:08.562 -->
00:25:12.282you know, I don't know, whatever the office or the house or whatever you whatever
00:25:12.282 -->
00:25:13.552you want to say like it's sometimes,
00:25:14.012 -->
00:25:15.769there's something to be said about that too,
00:25:16.607 -->
00:25:21.152oh for sure yeah and that's why i don't blame these guys when they're you know
00:25:21.152 -->
00:25:25.692when they come up here and they got a weekend to go fishing they got a weekend you know and we're
00:25:26.072 -->
00:25:30.012i'm lucky as a fishing guy to be out there every day even though there's most
00:25:30.012 -->
00:25:31.422states you know there's some days
00:25:31.422 -->
00:25:34.289i don't want to be out there because you know it's going to be bad but,
00:25:34.788 -->
00:25:39.560that's that's their time to go and you gotta you gotta make it fun you gotta,
00:25:40.007 -->
00:25:44.062you know keep people excited and grind it out because that you know there's
00:25:44.062 -->
00:25:49.179just there's a lot of people that aren't as fortunate to get out on the water as much as i do or,
00:25:49.754 -->
00:25:53.239very many other people do so yeah i would say.
00:25:54.177 -->
00:25:57.655As a guide you know you're fortunate because you get to be out on the water
00:25:57.655 -->
00:26:02.255a lot but but like you said that's not always a great thing right like everybody
00:26:02.255 -->
00:26:06.025thinks that being a guide is like so glamorous you get to fish every day all day,
00:26:06.780 -->
00:26:11.165but there's a lot of days where i would imagine it's not so enjoyable i mean
00:26:11.165 -->
00:26:16.085do you have a specific instance of a time recently where like it was just a
00:26:16.085 -->
00:26:18.731bad day you know they always say like a bad day fishing.
00:26:19.715 -->
00:26:23.645Is still better than a good day working or whatever like i don't always i don't
00:26:23.645 -->
00:26:27.637always agree with that necessarily do you have any stories of a bad day,
00:26:28.300 -->
00:26:32.755yeah well i mean i have a perfect example of three bad days in a row when we
00:26:32.755 -->
00:26:37.155were last up in minnesota we you know my last three days of guiding up there
00:26:37.155 -->
00:26:39.255the weather turned we we had,
00:26:39.755 -->
00:26:46.217almost no wind it got hot flat and the fish were still there they just were not moving,
00:26:46.757 -->
00:26:52.045and I think the worst feeling you can have as a fishing guide is when you have
00:26:52.045 -->
00:26:58.153somebody in the boat for multiple days in a row and you have the same crummy weather,
00:26:58.629 -->
00:27:05.035all day you know every day and nothing's going to change and you're just praying you know,
00:27:05.655 -->
00:27:10.675that something goes you know we had shots during those three days you know but
00:27:10.675 -->
00:27:17.585it wasn't like it was for the week and a half before I was up there and that hurts the most.
00:27:17.585 -->
00:27:24.208Like, it sucks when you have a customer out or a guest out for one day and the fishing's bad.
00:27:24.713 -->
00:27:29.135And then you go to the next guy or the next group. But when you have the same
00:27:29.135 -->
00:27:33.345person in the boat and you want them to catch one so badly and that weather's
00:27:33.345 -->
00:27:35.920just kicking your butt and the muskies are kicking your butt,
00:27:36.367 -->
00:27:37.955there is no worse feeling,
00:27:39.135 -->
00:27:40.448to have as a fishing guide.
00:27:41.872 -->
00:27:46.867I mean, yeah, it's, it's great to do what we do, but the, the stresses that
00:27:46.867 -->
00:27:51.107go through musky guy's heads, you wouldn't believe it.
00:27:51.627 -->
00:27:54.387The average person wouldn't believe it. You know, the person that's saying like,
00:27:54.387 -->
00:27:56.887oh, it must be nice to be out there every day. It's like, no,
00:27:56.887 -->
00:28:00.067you don't, you don't understand it. It's not that nice.
00:28:00.807 -->
00:28:03.767Right. Well, it's, it's nice that you mentioned the stresses part of it.
00:28:03.767 -->
00:28:06.187Right. And I would assume there's something to be said with that,
00:28:06.187 -->
00:28:09.233especially if you're, you know, a good guide that cares about your,
00:28:09.419 -->
00:28:11.468your customer and the customer experience.
00:28:11.904 -->
00:28:16.877Because like I've said it before, like for you, it's just another,
00:28:16.877 -->
00:28:20.419like you're taking out another group, right? It's just another day on the water.
00:28:20.721 -->
00:28:25.157But for that customer, they probably circled that day for a while,
00:28:25.157 -->
00:28:29.069right? I mean, they're excited about it. They, they've been looking forward to it.
00:28:29.533 -->
00:28:33.382And you know, that's something that, that's been, that's been on their,
00:28:33.807 -->
00:28:36.647I don't know, I will say, I don't know, bucket list isn't the right word,
00:28:36.647 -->
00:28:39.367but it's just been a highlight of something they're looking for,
00:28:39.367 -->
00:28:42.171for the summer or fall, whatever time period they're fishing.
00:28:42.525 -->
00:28:47.297And so for them to come out and struggle, there's, there's gotta be a certain,
00:28:47.819 -->
00:28:50.997degree of stress that goes with the job. As weird as that sounds being a fishing
00:28:50.997 -->
00:28:53.327guide, cause you're like, oh, whatever, we're just fishing. Right.
00:28:53.327 -->
00:28:55.058But that's not always the case.
00:28:55.690 -->
00:29:00.647Yeah. And it's not. And I mean, the goal as a fishing guide is to retain the
00:29:00.647 -->
00:29:03.327people that you take out in the past.
00:29:03.327 -->
00:29:10.027And the more people that you retain as you know repeat business business opportunities
00:29:10.027 -->
00:29:14.167the that that's where you're going to succeed as a fishing guide and.
00:29:14.911 -->
00:29:18.797And if you get into those bad days and just trying to keep people's spirits
00:29:18.797 -->
00:29:22.927up and you know like we hey we still have a chance you know we're gonna have
00:29:22.927 -->
00:29:26.027to work for it but we got our opportunities and.
00:29:27.041 -->
00:29:30.570Yeah, there's a tremendous amount of stress that goes on with this.
00:29:30.890 -->
00:29:37.260And I think some of the best fishing guides out there, they should experience
00:29:37.260 -->
00:29:39.130that stress. You know, they should note it.
00:29:39.490 -->
00:29:43.390You know, the ones that are not feeling stressed out over it,
00:29:43.823 -->
00:29:47.170having a bad day, you know, I think you're in it for the wrong reason.
00:29:47.170 -->
00:29:50.570Because you're not thinking about that person that spent the time,
00:29:50.570 -->
00:29:53.860the money, you know, to come fish with you for the day.
00:29:54.382 -->
00:29:57.490And we got to take care of these guys as best as we can. or guess,
00:29:57.790 -->
00:30:01.170I should say. Yeah, it certainly makes sense to me.
00:30:01.878 -->
00:30:06.420So, Michael, inevitably, I do think that we will eventually see turnover.
00:30:06.420 -->
00:30:10.810We haven't seen it yet. Assuming you've seen no evidence that it's coming in
00:30:10.810 -->
00:30:13.087the next week, probably.
00:30:13.482 -->
00:30:15.142What's your thoughts on that?
00:30:15.850 -->
00:30:19.850Yeah, I think after this week, she's going to start going.
00:30:19.850 -->
00:30:24.460It depends on what this wind all does. But, you know, up by me today,
00:30:24.460 -->
00:30:29.890it's, you know, it's absolutely crummy outside, you know, the way we like it.
00:30:29.890 -->
00:30:32.146It's 51 degrees and blowing hard.
00:30:32.529 -->
00:30:35.480And the rest of the week is supposed to be a nice cool down for us.
00:30:35.480 -->
00:30:40.220So if we get a big wind and we get a few more degrees dropping off of some of
00:30:40.220 -->
00:30:44.880these, you know, 3,000 plus acre bodies of water, we should start seeing some
00:30:44.880 -->
00:30:45.960of the lakes turning over.
00:30:45.960 -->
00:30:51.345Those are going to be our darker water systems as far as like,
00:30:51.781 -->
00:30:56.018you know, the big deep clear lakes. That's going to be another couple of weeks yet still.
00:30:56.899 -->
00:30:57.949Once we start approaching this
00:30:57.949 -->
00:31:00.999time frame what's your what's your battle plan like how do you go about,
00:31:01.459 -->
00:31:05.219deciding your day how do you even know like if you're new to muskie fishing
00:31:05.219 -->
00:31:08.949and you're in turnover you know how do you even know if the lake has turned
00:31:08.949 -->
00:31:11.992it hasn't turned like do you have any insight into that,
00:31:12.719 -->
00:31:18.019yeah i mean as far as like if i'm the way i'm gonna start my day out is typically
00:31:18.459 -->
00:31:22.179i don't start as early as everybody else i start at like eight nine o'clock
00:31:22.179 -->
00:31:26.704my favorite time to be out fishing anywhere around here is 10 to 2,
00:31:27.302 -->
00:31:32.429so and and then again at sunset so i'm not saying that there's not a great sunrise
00:31:32.429 -->
00:31:40.459bite but it's it's so inconsistent by me that i've noticed so i try to instead of gas in my guys try to,
00:31:40.999 -->
00:31:44.519you know let us sleep in a little bit and get after it but i kind of looked
00:31:44.519 -->
00:31:47.919at what other people are doing and do the opposite you know especially this
00:31:47.919 -->
00:31:51.410time of year, if I see a pile of people up shallow, I'm going to start deep.
00:31:51.903 -->
00:31:54.446Like I said, there's still plenty of fish out deep right now.
00:31:54.986 -->
00:31:59.119And I'm just looking for those fish that aren't getting pounded super,
00:31:59.119 -->
00:32:02.479super hard. And those shallow water fish are always going to get pounded.
00:32:02.819 -->
00:32:04.580People are always going to fish weeds.
00:32:04.981 -->
00:32:08.169So I tend to start out a little bit deeper. And then if I'm not seeing what
00:32:08.169 -->
00:32:10.999I want, then I'll start to slide up a little bit shallower.
00:32:12.202 -->
00:32:17.065Perfect. What you're typically known as a rubber fisherman, right?
00:32:17.065 -->
00:32:20.185That's your, that's your thing. Dogs, deuces, rubber. I like it.
00:32:20.185 -->
00:32:23.474It's, I mean, it's incorporated in many, many anglers, you know,
00:32:23.729 -->
00:32:26.260tackle boxes and their daily presentations.
00:32:26.568 -->
00:32:31.795If you can't throw rubber bait this time of year, what's, what's a couple that
00:32:31.795 -->
00:32:34.822you would definitely be thinking about having to strap on?
00:32:35.527 -->
00:32:39.545Yeah I mean going back to like the beaver I like to add a lot a weighted suik,
00:32:40.005 -->
00:32:44.435a lot of the 10 inch suiks that I have I've weighted them down pretty significantly
00:32:44.435 -->
00:32:45.628I bought those weight kits,
00:32:46.185 -->
00:32:51.415over the years like the the suik ones that you can actually put a you know I
00:32:51.415 -->
00:32:58.199tap in a threaded receptacle and screw in the weight but I just I did that and I super glued them in,
00:32:58.750 -->
00:33:01.975because they run so good but i weighed them down pretty heavy to where those
00:33:01.975 -->
00:33:05.809things do not rise you know fast at all,
00:33:06.337 -->
00:33:09.685it's a lot easier of a bait to throw for somebody as long as it's not super
00:33:09.685 -->
00:33:15.015windy they don't tend to throw that great in the wind but yeah between you know
00:33:15.015 -->
00:33:18.093that and some castable flies have been working with those two,
00:33:18.734 -->
00:33:23.593but even just you know casting and retrieving a rubber bait not necessarily,
00:33:24.278 -->
00:33:29.505just you know ripping it back or the pull pause method sometimes just a slowly
00:33:29.505 -->
00:33:35.775retrieved bulldog even in orba i know orbas are really well known for in the
00:33:35.775 -->
00:33:38.605sniping world but as far as,
00:33:39.185 -->
00:33:44.395if you haven't just casted in orba i've put them on willan's a rig in years
00:33:44.395 -->
00:33:49.575past late in the fall and it's done phenomenal on them you know just getting
00:33:49.575 -->
00:33:52.605that bait down there counting it down and just a nice,
00:33:53.105 -->
00:33:55.072simple, straight retrieve.
00:33:55.275 -->
00:34:00.235It's like working a bucktail at that point. So it's not too hard on the angler
00:34:00.235 -->
00:34:01.598and we've done really well on it.
00:34:02.728 -->
00:34:08.014Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people just automatically assume rubber this
00:34:08.014 -->
00:34:10.654time of year and they kind of overlook some of the other stuff.
00:34:10.654 -->
00:34:12.456So that's why I wanted to talk about that a little bit.
00:34:12.874 -->
00:34:16.154The other thing I want to talk about is I know you sucker fish quite a bit.
00:34:16.664 -->
00:34:20.021You mentioned it. I think I've seen it on some of the Today's Angler videos.
00:34:21.584 -->
00:34:26.846Do you have a rig of choice? How do you rig up a sucker? It sounds stupid elementary,
00:34:27.175 -->
00:34:30.444but I think there's a lot of people that are kind of like, how do I do this?
00:34:30.444 -->
00:34:32.533And what's your insight into that?
00:34:32.996 -->
00:34:35.844You know, I used to love that rubber band rig.
00:34:35.844 -->
00:34:39.264I almost feel like there's sometimes I should go back to that rubber band rig
00:34:39.264 -->
00:34:40.334because it works so good.
00:34:40.334 -->
00:34:44.514But the way that these clips are designed now, whether it's a stealth one or
00:34:44.514 -->
00:34:51.804the, gosh, fuzzies, shumways, clipping go, both are great options.
00:34:51.804 -->
00:34:57.164And a lot of times, honestly, I'll buy those rigs and I'll cut all that hardware off.
00:34:57.524 -->
00:35:03.514And I am making those leads exactly how I want them based on the suckers that
00:35:03.514 -->
00:35:04.793I'm going to use throughout the day.
00:35:05.333 -->
00:35:09.554I want one of those treble hooks as close to the back of the head as possible,
00:35:09.554 -->
00:35:14.772pretty much where the skull meets the first few scales of that meat behind the gills.
00:35:15.323 -->
00:35:21.153And then I'll make one, that other lead, so that it's pretty much just behind that dorsal.
00:35:21.964 -->
00:35:25.594Especially this time of year, those muskies, it seems like pre-turnover when
00:35:25.594 -->
00:35:28.894they grab a sucker, they are turning that thing and they are trying to eat it
00:35:28.894 -->
00:35:31.403fast whereas later on in the year,
00:35:31.891 -->
00:35:36.918they might grab it and hang on to it for a little while in a obscure area but
00:35:37.324 -->
00:35:41.094i want that hook as close to the back of the head as possible so keeping my
00:35:41.094 -->
00:35:46.944leads as clean as possible meaning no extra wire hanging out no loops or anything
00:35:46.944 -->
00:35:49.729i want that rig as tight to the sucker as possible so.
00:35:50.801 -->
00:35:57.247I use a lot, a lot of 90 pound, 7 strand and a lot of crimps and I will cut
00:35:57.247 -->
00:35:59.051those things apart daily,
00:35:59.741 -->
00:36:05.037to match up the size of sucker based on the rig that I, or the rig based on
00:36:05.037 -->
00:36:06.417the size of sucker that I have.
00:36:07.417 -->
00:36:11.016Sure. That makes sense. And I've, that would be one of my complaints I would
00:36:11.016 -->
00:36:14.446have with a lot of these is like they're, you know, the pre-made rigs are nice
00:36:14.446 -->
00:36:17.896and they're, they're really handy to have, but sometimes you just got too much
00:36:17.896 -->
00:36:18.956stuff hanging off of them.
00:36:18.956 -->
00:36:21.133Like, you know, for the size of the sucker that you're using,
00:36:21.493 -->
00:36:25.356I prefer to use rigs that have two hooks. Obviously with musky anglers,
00:36:25.356 -->
00:36:26.973we're looking for as many hooks as we can.
00:36:27.374 -->
00:36:30.956And sometimes these like, we'll say like the medium size two hook rig and you
00:36:30.956 -->
00:36:35.906put it on like a 13, 14 inch sucker and like your loops are just too long.
00:36:35.906 -->
00:36:38.862And I'm just like, man, there's just a ton of stuff hanging off of these things.
00:36:39.320 -->
00:36:43.486And I mean, that's interesting that you're out there just basically making,
00:36:43.486 -->
00:36:46.646making rigs on the water. I think a lot of people just, you know,
00:36:46.646 -->
00:36:48.544buy what they got and they go fishing with it.
00:36:48.945 -->
00:36:52.746Yeah, we'll take it, we'll take it or leave it. But there's a real art to people
00:36:52.746 -->
00:36:55.539that want to really present live bait effectively.
00:36:56.566 -->
00:37:01.646Absolutely. And again, I, these fish are getting smarter to these live bait,
00:37:01.646 -->
00:37:03.436you know, live bait presentation.
00:37:03.436 -->
00:37:08.716I'm not saying all of them are smart, but, you know, you got to keep those rigs
00:37:08.716 -->
00:37:13.486clean and show that you need that sucker to swim perfectly some days for that
00:37:13.486 -->
00:37:15.208fish to even think about biting it.
00:37:15.775 -->
00:37:18.598I've had plenty of days, again, just bring, I'm not
00:37:19.016 -->
00:37:23.186bringing up the live scope to stir up any feathers, but it's something that
00:37:23.186 -->
00:37:27.126I can watch and my customers can at least see when they're like,
00:37:27.466 -->
00:37:31.827we had 18 to 24 muskies chase our suckers today and they didn't bite.
00:37:32.695 -->
00:37:35.876You know and it's like yeah they just weren't biting today but we were in the
00:37:35.876 -->
00:37:41.266right areas and why weren't they biting it were we not running suckers right were my leads
00:37:41.706 -->
00:37:46.586gross and ugly and over the years of cleaning everything up and being a little
00:37:46.586 -->
00:37:53.231bit more in tune with that we're seeing far more 30 35 pound fish being caught later on in the year,
00:37:53.678 -->
00:37:59.481on suckers now but whereas you know I know before I moved up to this area,
00:38:00.143 -->
00:38:02.145I could go on Lake Namacog and,
00:38:02.885 -->
00:38:06.682any day with a sucker in october and be guaranteed a bite,
00:38:07.380 -->
00:38:10.213this is before you know this is probably 10 years ago,
00:38:10.805 -->
00:38:15.569and that is just not the case anymore i mean it was like clockwork it every
00:38:15.569 -->
00:38:21.149day you had a shot at a muskie grabbing a sucker on that body of water and by
00:38:21.149 -->
00:38:23.128the time of course when i move up here,
00:38:23.809 -->
00:38:26.519full time that that just completely ended it's.
00:38:27.529 -->
00:38:31.319Kind of like miltona too you know those western Minnesota lakes,
00:38:31.319 -->
00:38:33.487those are always really good sucker lakes.
00:38:33.759 -->
00:38:37.649And you're starting to see those sucker bites significantly declining.
00:38:38.009 -->
00:38:40.019Again, I think these fish are really smart.
00:38:40.488 -->
00:38:44.309And there's some stupid ones out there that will make the same mistake multiple times.
00:38:44.669 -->
00:38:49.638No different than a human being that has a 6 DUI and is working on a 7th.
00:38:50.950 -->
00:38:54.789Some people just don't get it. Some fish don't get it.
00:38:56.149 -->
00:39:01.509Oftentimes our recaptures We have those same fish that visit our boat every
00:39:01.509 -->
00:39:07.109year, and it's like, man, you are just a stupid muskie. You just haven't got it yet.
00:39:08.615 -->
00:39:12.346And I like the stupid ones. That's what we want. Right?
00:39:12.835 -->
00:39:17.346Yes. Stupid muskies are great. I loved them back in the day on Green Bay when
00:39:17.775 -->
00:39:21.599there was a bunch of young and dumb muskies. Man, those things were so fun.
00:39:21.599 -->
00:39:23.853They would bite everything and anything. It was awesome.
00:39:24.484 -->
00:39:29.639Oh, gosh. i mean there's a there's a lake up nearby up here by me where it's
00:39:29.639 -->
00:39:34.919it's a private road to get on to and i had some people let me on there from
00:39:34.919 -->
00:39:39.439time to time and robbie and i have actually filmed some shows out there and,
00:39:40.129 -->
00:39:44.971like we joke around about it it's like we're fishing in the 1980s,
00:39:45.644 -->
00:39:50.839with like the best tackle available for these muskies the way that they were
00:39:50.839 -->
00:39:54.959coming up i mean you could not reel a bucktail fast enough and you could not
00:39:54.959 -->
00:39:56.523figure eight one fast enough,
00:39:57.224 -->
00:40:01.344you'd be so much whitewater in your figure eights to where you couldn't even
00:40:01.344 -->
00:40:04.411see if the fish was behind you and all of a sudden your rod would just load up,
00:40:05.043 -->
00:40:09.884it was as fast as you could go and i mean we were having action from 30 plus
00:40:09.884 -->
00:40:12.350muskies out of the day catch 10 of them,
00:40:12.873 -->
00:40:17.354you know but 30 legit musky bites on the lake that has zero northerns in it
00:40:17.715 -->
00:40:20.500very little bass you know i know that they weren't bass but,
00:40:20.994 -->
00:40:25.804it just goes to show like you know they get conditioned and it's not a bad thing
00:40:25.804 -->
00:40:28.747you know this is musty fishing it's supposed to be hard so.
00:40:29.644 -->
00:40:35.100This you know as it gets goes down the line here yes it may get a little bit tougher but,
00:40:35.791 -->
00:40:39.390i mean we're already working our butts off what's a little tougher gonna hurt
00:40:39.722 -->
00:40:45.907right well speaking of speaking of tougher everybody wants to fish in the in the fall right
00:40:46.348 -->
00:40:49.604and they're always like oh that's the best time of year to fish for muskies
00:40:49.604 -->
00:40:54.354but is it really like is is fall time your favorite time is it the easiest time
00:40:54.354 -->
00:40:56.530to catch them what's your thoughts because in my opinion
00:40:56.936 -->
00:41:01.574it's not the the easiest time to catch them if i could pick a time it's probably
00:41:01.574 -->
00:41:07.164maybe late june or right after that you know first cold front in august they seem to be.
00:41:08.004 -->
00:41:12.184Easier to figure out easier to pattern more willing to bite it seems like in
00:41:12.184 -->
00:41:15.224the fall here i'm not trying to say anything away from that you go out there
00:41:15.224 -->
00:41:17.418and you're going to have your best shot at a really big fish
00:41:17.847 -->
00:41:22.354but it just feels like the bite windows are shorter and it can be a little bit
00:41:22.354 -->
00:41:24.515tougher. What do you, what's your thoughts on all that?
00:41:25.334 -->
00:41:29.079I totally agree especially if you take live bait completely out of the picture
00:41:29.079 -->
00:41:32.771you know if we're just casting it's one of the toughest times to catch a muskie,
00:41:33.282 -->
00:41:38.199period man even with live bait in the water it's still very very tough i totally
00:41:38.199 -->
00:41:42.249agree with you the bite windows get tighter and tighter i mean historically
00:41:42.249 -->
00:41:46.204the past eight nine and nine years now we,
00:41:46.919 -->
00:41:50.409meaning my brother-in-law and i we are the last idiots out on these puddles
00:41:50.409 -->
00:41:56.339up here I mean, hands down, we do not see anybody else fishing into December.
00:41:56.339 -->
00:41:59.884We want to be out there as late as possible, and it just gets tougher and tougher.
00:42:00.412 -->
00:42:05.579So, yeah, see, your shot at catching a very big, heavy fish goes up,
00:42:05.945 -->
00:42:07.704because they're going to be at their heaviest.
00:42:08.185 -->
00:42:14.229But overall, your June, your July, your August, September, they're way better
00:42:14.229 -->
00:42:19.809months for casting-wise and getting more action, longer feeding windows more
00:42:19.809 -->
00:42:21.696opportunities to fish for them,
00:42:22.288 -->
00:42:27.159whereas the later you go into the fall the tougher it gets so i i totally disagree
00:42:27.159 -->
00:42:31.605with people when they say it's the best time to go musky fishing there really
00:42:31.808 -->
00:42:35.280it really isn't it's your best shot at catching a really heavy fish though,
00:42:35.930 -->
00:42:40.399which is what i love yeah that's 100 i would agree with you want to you want
00:42:40.399 -->
00:42:45.969one at its highest weight you want one that that's going to just be like a behemoth
00:42:45.969 -->
00:42:49.439you know like that's this is the time of year to do that but.
00:42:50.639 -->
00:42:55.399I i'll never scoff at a big long fish but i you know the heavier they get the
00:42:55.399 -->
00:42:58.279bigger smile and the more i shake in the boat whether,
00:42:58.779 -->
00:43:06.591i catch it or guest catches it i want to see the heaviest fish at all times of the year personally,
00:43:07.137 -->
00:43:11.569you got any tips for people that uh to try to handle the cold weather and what
00:43:11.569 -->
00:43:14.296what have you found that works to to keep people going longer.
00:43:15.076 -->
00:43:20.566Yeah you know i think the best thing is keeping your hands as warm as possible
00:43:20.566 -->
00:43:25.210i use those half wool the finger tipless wool gloves,
00:43:25.674 -->
00:43:33.036and it's amazing how well they do work and your hands will get cold but my main
00:43:33.036 -->
00:43:38.027thing is every morning when you get out there your hands are going to be cold.
00:43:38.439 -->
00:43:45.713And you need to take the time to warm your hands up, not to 70%, not 95%.
00:43:46.183 -->
00:43:48.320You need to warm them up to 100%.
00:43:48.917 -->
00:43:54.466And once you warm them back up to 100%, it is amazing how much warmer your hands
00:43:54.466 -->
00:43:57.376will stay throughout the rest of the day. I'm not going to say that they're
00:43:57.376 -->
00:44:00.938going to be, you know, like they won't eventually get cold.
00:44:01.310 -->
00:44:06.198But if you don't take the time to shock your hands, bring them back up to 100%
00:44:06.331 -->
00:44:10.591and then get back out fishing, you're going to be having cold hands all day long.
00:44:11.097 -->
00:44:15.746So that's my number one tip. I put my hands right on my gut.
00:44:16.008 -->
00:44:21.156And if my gut's not warm enough, I slide them down the waistband a little bit.
00:44:22.536 -->
00:44:27.406I'm generating maximum amount of heat. Keeping those hands warm,
00:44:27.406 -->
00:44:30.256especially when stuff goes down.
00:44:30.996 -->
00:44:34.936If you're drifting around with live bait, I tell my guys right away when I'm
00:44:34.936 -->
00:44:37.846trying to figure out where this fish is swimming to and from,
00:44:37.846 -->
00:44:39.587it's like, keep your hands warm.
00:44:40.075 -->
00:44:44.986Like, don't just have them in gloves, put them on your gut, be ready.
00:44:44.986 -->
00:44:47.801Because when I hand this rod off to you, it's go time.
00:44:48.080 -->
00:44:52.681And you got to have warm hands to do this correctly. Right?
00:44:53.742 -->
00:44:57.322Brad has mentioned this on the podcast many times. I feel like it's time to
00:44:57.322 -->
00:45:01.152bring this up again, but like if you are looking to, like if you're trolling
00:45:01.152 -->
00:45:05.752or if you're sitting watching live bait and the, the plug-in seat heaters that
00:45:05.752 -->
00:45:08.592you can get for a car, it just plugs into a 12 volt cigarette
00:45:09.032 -->
00:45:11.819lighter adapter. You can get them on Amazon for like 50 bucks.
00:45:12.359 -->
00:45:16.340Man, I'll tell you that thing is a lifesaver. If you've never had one, it's awesome.
00:45:16.758 -->
00:45:19.622Man, that is cool. I've never, I never even heard of that one.
00:45:19.622 -->
00:45:22.952I listen and I feel bad. I listen to you guys all the time, but I must have
00:45:22.952 -->
00:45:25.412missed that little golden tidbit. Yeah.
00:45:26.172 -->
00:45:30.072It is amazing. It is like, especially, like I said, if you're trolling or in
00:45:30.072 -->
00:45:33.762your case, I don't know if I would imagine at some point you guys pretty much
00:45:33.762 -->
00:45:38.482just, you might cast for whatever, 10, 15 minutes, then, then take a,
00:45:38.482 -->
00:45:40.542you know, take a seat, warm up a little bit.
00:45:40.542 -->
00:45:43.298If, you know, for that type of thing, if you're sitting on it,
00:45:43.715 -->
00:45:47.292it'll do really, it's great. And then, you know, to keep your hands warm,
00:45:47.292 -->
00:45:49.409you just kind of tuck your hands underneath your butt.
00:45:49.751 -->
00:45:52.567So you're, you're, you know, you're getting it off that seat heater.
00:45:53.423 -->
00:45:57.547That's a fantastic tip. I always have mine in my boat when it's late,
00:45:57.547 -->
00:46:00.307late fall, especially if you're trolling. It's unbelievable for that.
00:46:00.307 -->
00:46:03.028It'll keep you way warmer. It's fantastic.
00:46:03.393 -->
00:46:07.327Probably one of the best tips. That sounds like, oh, yeah, that sounds amazing.
00:46:07.327 -->
00:46:10.737And I know a lot of people put Mr. Buddy heaters and stuff in their boat.
00:46:11.997 -->
00:46:15.177I haven't done that in so long. It just seemed like you would warm your hands
00:46:15.177 -->
00:46:17.267up really quick and then they just get cold again.
00:46:17.267 -->
00:46:21.657So I was like, ah, let's keep the fire hazard in the boat and stick them on
00:46:21.657 -->
00:46:26.037your gut. But that's a, that's a great tidbit from Brad as far as,
00:46:26.417 -->
00:46:30.143I mean, I'm, I know what I'm going to be looking for after I get off the phone with you now. Yep.
00:46:30.352 -->
00:46:32.817Just plug right in your cigarette lighter. You should go spend even more money.
00:46:32.817 -->
00:46:35.307They're cheap. I mean, compared to the cost of everything else.
00:46:35.307 -->
00:46:38.404I mean, if you guys are running suckers a lot, you know how much those things are.
00:46:38.858 -->
00:46:42.327Yeah. Ridiculous. I would imagine you got to have some tanks and stuff that
00:46:42.327 -->
00:46:46.097you guys, that you have to keep those, keep those going year round.
00:46:46.097 -->
00:46:49.917And because i would also think with as late as you guys fishing of the year
00:46:49.917 -->
00:46:53.199there's got to be a hard time at least finding them i would imagine,
00:46:53.854 -->
00:46:58.917yeah yeah typically you know once once we get like really close to turnover
00:46:58.917 -->
00:47:03.097that's where i'm gonna buy my biggest my biggest supply of them where we'll
00:47:03.097 -->
00:47:05.255go and buy 40 50 of them at a time,
00:47:05.754 -->
00:47:11.312i have a 210 gallon total tank running in the backyard now for over a week and a half,
00:47:11.812 -->
00:47:14.977got all this good bacteria growing in it now so So.
00:47:15.717 -->
00:47:19.085By the time I do get a big dumpy of suckers, when I dump them in there,
00:47:19.428 -->
00:47:21.297I'm not going to have, you know,
00:47:22.023 -->
00:47:26.637it's not going to offset my filter system because the filter system has all
00:47:26.637 -->
00:47:28.407the good bacteria in it rolling now.
00:47:28.407 -->
00:47:32.477So by the time I do that, those suckers will be ready to go.
00:47:32.917 -->
00:47:38.187But yeah, just keeping those things happy and fresh and a lot of moving water
00:47:38.187 -->
00:47:41.387because this is all outside to keep them cool.
00:47:41.387 -->
00:47:46.397And boy, you should see the glaciers that we have to deal with towards the end
00:47:46.397 -->
00:47:50.574of this season with those sucker tanks. It is just a mess. I can imagine.
00:47:51.149 -->
00:47:54.067I mean, especially because like I said, you guys are fishing in temperatures
00:47:54.067 -->
00:47:57.158where it probably doesn't even get above freezing for the day, I would imagine, right?
00:47:57.861 -->
00:48:01.998Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we're fishing in these lakes as they're freezing around
00:48:01.998 -->
00:48:08.734us. I mean, I have plenty of photos of Robbie breaking ice at the boat launch coming in.
00:48:10.078 -->
00:48:15.778We're the guy in the trucks waiting, you know, because I'm not backing my trailer onto the ice.
00:48:16.238 -->
00:48:21.878The boat's a much better tool for that. But yeah, I mean, I'm fishing some cold stuff.
00:48:22.238 -->
00:48:25.000I give Robbie a lot of credit. A couple of years ago,
00:48:25.749 -->
00:48:31.176That kid went out. I went south, and I fished for muskies for the better part
00:48:31.176 -->
00:48:33.876of December down south, mainly on the Wisconsin River system.
00:48:33.876 -->
00:48:37.286It did really well. But there was one lake up here, a couple of them,
00:48:37.286 -->
00:48:41.056that froze over, opened up, froze over, opened up, froze over,
00:48:41.056 -->
00:48:42.732and then opened up one more time.
00:48:43.028 -->
00:48:47.146That kid went out there, and it's December 28th.
00:48:47.146 -->
00:48:53.506He's by himself. It's probably nine degrees outside, and he catches a 48-and-a-half,
00:48:53.506 -->
00:48:59.34635 plus pounder by himself and it was like good for you man like way to get after it.
00:49:00.206 -->
00:49:03.160Yeah that's the dedication you don't see from many people,
00:49:03.787 -->
00:49:08.176i know no and you know i don't expect it either because you know i don't want
00:49:08.176 -->
00:49:11.596to like puff our chests out and be like oh we're more horror core than other
00:49:11.596 -->
00:49:15.876people i'd much rather say we're dumber than a lot of other people we don't
00:49:15.876 -->
00:49:17.546have any other hobbies to get into,
00:49:18.286 -->
00:49:23.546but you know that's what we live to do and it's it's you know it's almost couch
00:49:23.546 -->
00:49:28.976season is the way we look at it you know so it's take your best opportunities
00:49:28.976 -->
00:49:32.590go as much as you can and i say that throughout the year to anybody that,
00:49:33.140 -->
00:49:37.836is you know whether they're a seasoned musky angler or a new beginner go when
00:49:37.836 -->
00:49:42.746you can because don't let the moon the weather dictate your plans sometimes
00:49:42.746 -->
00:49:47.526you just got to go and it's amazing some of the days you'll pull out of your butt,
00:49:48.441 -->
00:49:52.236you know just from going and it's like man i can't believe that they're going
00:49:52.236 -->
00:49:53.886today but i'm happy i'm out here.
00:49:55.465 -->
00:49:58.646Yeah that's cool michael i appreciate your time today if people are looking
00:49:58.646 -->
00:50:01.977to get in touch with you to go fishing do you have any availability yet this year,
00:50:02.674 -->
00:50:06.734I think I have one more date open towards the end of the month here.
00:50:07.054 -->
00:50:10.754Yeah, it's like October 22nd or something. I might do some November stuff.
00:50:10.754 -->
00:50:15.414I have a few trips planned in November, but that's kind of my time to go play.
00:50:15.874 -->
00:50:22.474Most people that are fishing muskies then are planning to go shoot a deer, which is cool.
00:50:22.474 -->
00:50:26.884So November is more my time. But if you want to try to braid the elements,
00:50:26.884 -->
00:50:32.298plan a trip around that time. If we can go, it's your best shot at catching a 35 plus pound or so.
00:50:33.535 -->
00:50:38.744That that would be the remainder of my dates is either early ish november to
00:50:38.744 -->
00:50:42.649i have that one day open in october so give me a shout,
00:50:43.229 -->
00:50:48.304i'd love to fill it what's the best way they can go about doing that yeah just
00:50:48.304 -->
00:50:55.634give me a call or shoot me a text at area code 608-695-9073 otherwise you can get a hold of me on my,
00:50:56.294 -->
00:51:02.993my instagram or my facebook through messaging and all that but if i do not to answer the first time.
00:51:03.898 -->
00:51:07.797Just please try to get back to me again i don't like to be on my phone when
00:51:07.797 -->
00:51:11.807i'm out in the boat i think it's rude to be out on on your phone all day in
00:51:11.807 -->
00:51:16.287front of other customers and i get that we have to plan other trips and other
00:51:16.287 -->
00:51:18.832dates with our guys and the ladies but,
00:51:19.318 -->
00:51:23.977just keep trying i'm not ignoring you there's a lot to keep up with this day
00:51:23.977 -->
00:51:28.987and age between emails and all the messaging services so 20 000 ways to get
00:51:28.987 -->
00:51:33.247a hold of somebody and it's always hard to remember Or where did that person reach out to you from?
00:51:33.767 -->
00:51:36.915Right. I'm glad I'm not the only one with that problem. I have that.
00:51:37.565 -->
00:51:42.007I have that all the time. Or I'll be busy doing something. I'll see it pop up,
00:51:42.007 -->
00:51:44.837right? And then I'll be like, okay, that doesn't need immediate attention.
00:51:44.837 -->
00:51:46.093And I'll, you know, whatever.
00:51:46.482 -->
00:51:50.747And either I may forget about it or I just cannot remind her where it is.
00:51:50.747 -->
00:51:54.917Like it'll be, sometimes it'll be on my personal Facebook or my business pages
00:51:54.917 -->
00:51:57.747or my email or the other email.
00:51:57.747 -->
00:52:03.277Or it's just instagram it's everything like it there's just too many places
00:52:03.277 -->
00:52:07.597to get in touch with people these days it's too much i mean they made it so
00:52:07.597 -->
00:52:10.187easy that it makes it even harder so yeah.
00:52:11.347 -->
00:52:14.377That's funny you say that because i joke all the time like i think technology
00:52:14.377 -->
00:52:17.033has made our lives more difficult honestly like it's just,
00:52:18.101 -->
00:52:22.987too much stuff could not agree with you more jeff we're a much peaceful more
00:52:22.987 -->
00:52:26.747peaceful group of people back in the day before all this crap so.
00:52:29.234 -->
00:52:32.447Well I I'd read this has nothing to do with the musky fishing podcast so if
00:52:32.447 -->
00:52:35.877you if you don't want to listen to my next point that's fine but I had read
00:52:35.877 -->
00:52:38.897something where like people are going back to like buying what they call dumb
00:52:38.897 -->
00:52:43.667phones and you know just like they have a flip phone or whatever,
00:52:45.308 -->
00:52:48.828and that's that's that's the route i'd like to go if i wasn't in the business
00:52:48.828 -->
00:52:52.472that i am and we're you know i kind of need all these socials but,
00:52:52.977 -->
00:52:56.758i mean even with social media i don't post much throughout the year just because
00:52:56.758 -->
00:53:00.686i don't know it's not i i just don't like doing it you know it's i,
00:53:01.185 -->
00:53:05.778i don't have to i feel like i don't have to gloat all the time or talk about
00:53:05.778 -->
00:53:10.833what i'm doing every day of the week you know and not ripping on people that do i get it but,
00:53:11.457 -->
00:53:13.738But life was a lot more simpler without all this stuff.
00:53:13.738 -->
00:53:17.218And it's amazing how fast you can get stuck on your phone looking at absolutely
00:53:17.218 -->
00:53:22.418nothing for way too much time on your time off. And productivity goes down,
00:53:22.418 -->
00:53:26.698brain gets a little smaller, and next thing you know it, I'm eating even more crayons.
00:53:28.574 -->
00:53:33.378That's funny and so true. I joke with my wife about that stuff once in a while.
00:53:33.378 -->
00:53:37.618I'll be like, I don't even know what I just looked at. Yeah.
00:53:39.615 -->
00:53:44.857That's why just go fishing people go hunting put your phones down it's fun yep
00:53:45.258 -->
00:53:47.638well on that note i want to thank you again for your time michael i want to
00:53:47.638 -->
00:53:50.813thank all of our listeners for tuning in this week to an episode of backlash podcast,
00:53:51.341 -->
00:53:55.968and i hope that many of you tune in again next week and we'll have a we'll have
00:53:55.968 -->
00:54:00.028a guest i'll find one somewhere but until then uh good luck fishing i did forget
00:54:00.028 -->
00:54:02.538to mention if you need any gear for your next muskie fishing adventure make
00:54:02.538 -->
00:54:04.368sure you Check out teamrhinooutdoors.com.
00:54:04.368 -->
00:54:07.740So thank you everybody for tuning in this week. We'll be back next week.