What makes a great drivers car - Engines and all things oily

WEBVTT
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Welcome to Auto Arcadia. I'm one of the hosts,
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Colin Wood, and with me is Thomas Hope, the other
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host. And tonight, we're going to be looking
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at engines and oily bits, and what makes an engine
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great in a good driver's car. So, any screamer
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or turbo monster? Perhaps neither. Maybe it's
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chassis twist and torque from a supercharger,
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some Group B madness in the form of twin charging.
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for certain it's nothing without a rifle bolt
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slick box to tie it all together we're about
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to jump into what a great driver's car needs
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from its engine so definitely i'm looking forward
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to this i know much less than you about engines
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and oily bits well i have a long history with
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them and some of it is regrettable yeah yeah
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definitely um I would very much like to hear
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some of your personal opinions and anecdotes
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on engines. No problem. Well, I suppose we'll
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get cracked in. So, construction differences
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and engine configurations. So, like, there's
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some weird ones. But the big three is inline,
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V, and then you're flat. So, like, horizontally
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opposed. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. Cool. For me,
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straight six is the king just because of the
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balance. It's just fantastic. And I actually
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think they sound the best as well. It's definitely
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an appealing configuration for sure, yeah. I
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do like an inline six. I like a V. Yeah. I'm
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not mad keen on a V6. I would prefer all six
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cylinders are inline. But a V8, V10, V12, yeah,
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that's cool shit. nirvana absolutely it would
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be kind of sick to own a v12 car or a v8 but
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maybe a v12 more than a v8 before you know we
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stop doing combustion yeah we're never going
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to stop doing combustion man that's a fucking
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tree hugger and tesla owner's dream right there
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that can't be allowed to happen yeah i know i
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agree i would i would really really miss the
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uh internal combustion engine if it disappeared
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from like our roads and stuff it became like
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the steam engine do you remember i don't know
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this this might be way off but did you ever used
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to go to like i don't know what you would call
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them maybe like agricultural shows or like steam
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and they would have like loads of steam engines
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whatever they were yeah you would have like a
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steam engine running and cutting about maybe
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this is just something to do with living in the
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country or something like that but like i would
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really hate for internal combustion to be relegated
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to the same kind of like old men in um you know
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like padded jackets and flat caps like standing
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around in a field on a cold sunday And that's
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really the only time they ever run them and do
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that. I'd really hate it for it to get that niche.
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No, it'll never do that, man. Never. I don't
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think it will. Certainly, in our lifetime, it
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won't. It fucking better not, anyway. Fair. I
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think I agree with you. I don't think they're
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going anywhere soon. No, definitely not. I mean,
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yeah, for me, inline six, that's the daddy right
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there. I'm not mad keen on a V6. A flat six,
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however, oh, what a noise. And that's not me
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just with my, like, Porsche fucking... All your
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Porsche -branded sportswear on. Yeah, my Porsche
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-branded sportswear, my Porsche obsession at
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the moment. But, like, even, like, the Subaru
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Legacy with the flat six in it, man, the three
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that there are, what a noise. Yeah. Absolutely.
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So there's not really a plus or minus on the
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number of cylinders. the configuration i mean
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a straight six and a v12 are your two absolute
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perfect configurations because the balancing
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is just fantastic and because you've always got
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cylinders at the same point and everything's
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nicely balanced all the moments are just perfect
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your primary and secondary moments all your inner
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everything it's just the perfect configuration
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um There's some oddities as well, so like W engines,
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which would be like... There's small Vs, like
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V2s and V4s. Yeah, so you've got your small Vs,
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you've got your Ws, which is like Veyrons. What's
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the footballer's car that Bentley makes? The
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Continental. Yeah. Those sort of things. They're
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a bit odd. It's essentially... You know the VR6,
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which is a straight six? It's actually a V6,
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but on a single head. So it's like a really narrow
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cylinder offset, like 15 degrees or something.
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Yeah. Two of those together to make like a W12.
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So two of those running off a common crank. Yeah.
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Don't really know what was wrong with a V12.
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I mean, it's a bit longer, but you know. Yeah.
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I don't know either, but whatever they engineered
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it, they made it happen. Yeah. Do you know? um
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there's another type of engine that i don't even
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know if you've seen this but have you heard of
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the h configuration i have yes okay have you
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um heard you know there was the um formula one
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car in um the like the 60s that had a h16 right
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two flat eights just lying on top of each other
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sharing a kind of common okay well just sharing
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um two uh cranks but then they were linked that's
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fantastic it's kind of insane that isn't it this
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is this is where you get really cool stuff um
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because like you've got the radial engine as
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well now off the top of my head i can't actually
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think of a radial engine being put in a car but
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i know for a fact that someone somewhere has
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or some company i've definitely seen video of
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radial powered vehicles 100 it's it's been done
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yeah definitely been done turbines were done
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as well they were Which is wild. It is. It's
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nuts. But then we come on to... They really wanted
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to make a nuclear reactor car as well. Oh, actually,
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I've got a little anecdote on this. So, you know,
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in the 60s, when they were going nuclear -powered
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everything, you know, they tried to make a nuclear
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-powered aeroplane until they realised that they
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had to make it air -cooled. And the fact that
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you have an air -cooled reactor flying through
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the sky means that all the air coming out the
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other side of the reactor is radioactive. So
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it just went around spewing radioactivity all
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over the shop, so they had to cancel the project.
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I'm glad they cancelled the project. It would
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be much worse if they'd realised that and continued
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on regardless. Well, I mean, it's scarier, though,
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that nuclear engineers didn't realise this at
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the concept stage, and they got to the point
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where it was like, oh, we'll start mocking up
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for a design, and then they were like, shit,
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this is going to kill everyone. Yeah, it does
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seem like a little bit of a big mess. It does.
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Actually, that's quite a nice wee segue, because
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we went from radial to aircraft, and the next
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engine on the oddity list, I'm not going to go
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forever with the configurations, because it's
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not a massive thing, for me anyway, is rotaries.
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Of course, yeah, we've got rotaries. Now, I fucking
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love a rotary engine. Yeah, they're just amazing.
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I know there's issues with... apex seals wearing
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down and low compression and oil consumption
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and low fuel consumption and everything else
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but if you get a peripheral ported 13b in any
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car whatsoever and you hear it going at full
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chat you'll be converted and that's all there
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is to it yeah they are kind of great then they're
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great in some ways because they're kind of shit
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yeah like all of they're still good despite all
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of their numerous drawbacks because they sound
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great And the thing is as well, I loved my RX
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-8 with the 13B MSP engine. And they got a bum
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rap with the RX -8 and it was because it was
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so accessible at a price point and people just
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didn't understand them. And the salesman and
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Mazda didn't really make any effort to make people
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understand what they were buying. So it's like...
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They were driven by everyone back in the day.
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They were everywhere. They were ubiquitous, man.
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It was a bit like the 350Z, but not quite as
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common. You can still get an RX -8, no bother.
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There's loads of them around. Yeah, but their
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values are tanked because of people not understanding
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them. Absolutely. Compared to the RX -7, RX -8s
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are like pennies. Ten a penny. absolutely i always
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found that slightly weird like i will confess
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when the rx8 came out like i wasn't i didn't
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really like the the design and i didn't really
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like you know the rear kind of half suicide doors
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and stuff because i remember seeing an rx8 at
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like it was like an nec motor show or something
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like that like seeing the the concept or like
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the first production when they were like showing
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it around all these shows uh and like I just,
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I remember not being that interested in it. But
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over time, and having sat in yours and seen yours,
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I must say they've really, really grown on me.
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And I actually think the styling has, especially
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the later versions with the... The R3. Yeah,
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definitely. They have really, they've aged so
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nicely. They look fantastic. Yeah, I would definitely
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be looking to pick one up in a year or two. Because
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I think they're going to go mental as a classic.
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Like, I think they're worth... It's got to be
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a bit like Mark II Escort, I think. You know
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how everybody had them and people were literally,
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like, fucking burning them to get rid of them.
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Nobody wanted them for a while. And then they
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got kind of popular for a wee bit and then it
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just exploded and everybody wanted one. Absolutely.
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And, like, people always complain about, oh,
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you know, you need to, like, to factor in the
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cost of the engine rebuild. But, like, you know,
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people don't, like, the fact that a car was unreliable
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when it came out very rarely affects its value
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in future if it becomes, you know, like, more
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valuable. Like, think of all these Lancias that
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people are, like, you know, spending big money
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on. It's not like they're not fucking total liabilities
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as well. I was just about to say that as the
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very example, as soon as you mentioned reliability,
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I was like, try buying a cheap Lancia. It doesn't
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fucking exist. Any old classic car is not going
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to be very reliable. Like, that's the thing.
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That doesn't matter when it comes to, like, if
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you can get a decent quality one now when they're
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dirt cheap and keep it nice, I reckon you'd make
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good money on that. Oh yeah, easily. You know
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the thing is as well, everyone thinks that the
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rotary is this evil thing that is so complicated
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it's unbelievable, but they literally have 27
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moving parts. That's actually taken it to the
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extreme of counting them as well. Whereas your
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standard four cylinder econobox engine has like
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127 moving parts it's like yeah like they are
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so simple like all and they get a bum rap as
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well because like this is my big gripe is see
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if they had the same amount of money spent on
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r and d as conventional reciprocating engines
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have they would be powerhouses yeah no one has
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really spent that much time trying to improve
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no you had nsu essentially. Aye. Who made everyone
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from cars to motorbikes with them. Which was
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great. It was rotary madness. Then Mercedes had
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a brief fling with the rotary engine. And ever
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since then, it's just been Mazda. What did they
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use the rotary in? I believe it was an LMP car.
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Ah, I see. And did NSU not become Mazda? Ah,
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fuck, I can't remember. I don't possibly... I'm
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unsure on that as well. testing my brand knowledge
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now sorry i always have like these kind of memories
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of like half like half remembered things from
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like you know like youtube stuff or documentaries
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or just any kind of like car kind of history
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content it's like the the fact is being waved
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near my mind but not quite close enough for me
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to to know it yeah and i'm even a bit behind
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that because i don't even have a recollection
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of hearing that NSU became Mazda, but I'm definitely
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not going to go out on a limb and say that they
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didn't. It could also just be something I've
00:12:57.419 --> 00:13:00.480
totally made up. Well, I'm not going to challenge
00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:07.220
it because I haven't a fucking clue. But on the
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subject of, well, I mean, on the opposite subject
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of rotaries, the kind of general configuration,
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the only bit that's left. Sorry, man, can I just
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really quickly interrupt? No, go for it. NSU
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did not become Mazda. NSU was a German manufacturer
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and they were acquired by our good friends at
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Volkswagen Group. Oh, fuck, of course they were.
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You know, the difference between... Actually,
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no. You know... I'm not letting the Volkswagen
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Audi Group hatred infiltrate another episode.
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I could literally hear it start. Sorry, what
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you were saying. No, it's okay. On the construction
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differences, the next stop point here is cams
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and cam configuration. Obviously not for a rotary
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engine because they don't have cams at all. They
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work more like a two -stroke. They've got holes
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that fuel comes in through. and the impact on
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size is a big one here so like most modern engines
00:14:15.129 --> 00:14:19.809
are overhead cam at a bare minimum dual overhead
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cam is the most common side valve gets an honorary
00:14:23.629 --> 00:14:25.889
mention because there's none of them in existence
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as far as i'm concerned outside of possibly like
00:14:28.610 --> 00:14:32.370
some really niche dump truck diesel engines or
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something like that okay whoa whoa whoa we're
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gonna have to go a little bit slower for me right
00:14:38.309 --> 00:14:41.629
yeah I am obviously familiar with dual overhead
00:14:41.629 --> 00:14:45.809
cam. Yes. And that was, that's, you know, it's
00:14:45.809 --> 00:14:48.210
been kicking around for a while, but it was definitely
00:14:48.210 --> 00:14:51.269
used to brand cars, you know. You know, this
00:14:51.269 --> 00:14:54.110
is, it's dual overhead cam. It's good. It's new.
00:14:54.529 --> 00:14:57.190
And I'm also aware of the single overhead cam
00:14:57.190 --> 00:14:59.429
as well. So that's where it's one cam controlling
00:14:59.429 --> 00:15:03.730
the intake and exhaust valves. Yes. Whereas dual
00:15:03.730 --> 00:15:06.750
overhead cam, it's one cam controlling the intake
00:15:06.750 --> 00:15:09.970
and one cam controlling the exhaust. yeah but
00:15:09.970 --> 00:15:13.009
like what about overhead what what's the f1 because
00:15:13.009 --> 00:15:16.590
there's the f1 so you've got i was just about
00:15:16.590 --> 00:15:19.269
to get onto that one so you've got side valve
00:15:19.269 --> 00:15:23.909
right which is like it's like flat head v8s um
00:15:23.909 --> 00:15:27.269
pan head harleys it's a bit of an oddity they
00:15:27.269 --> 00:15:29.750
don't really exist anymore they're just here
00:15:29.750 --> 00:15:32.289
for an honorable mention but how did it work
00:15:32.289 --> 00:15:34.169
like what does what does it mean by a flat head
00:15:34.169 --> 00:15:38.809
v8 essentially the heads are flat like So there
00:15:38.809 --> 00:15:42.429
wasn't really anything there. So that's not where
00:15:42.429 --> 00:15:45.490
the intake and exhaust were? No, they were all
00:15:45.490 --> 00:15:48.909
there, but the heads were basically a flat panel
00:15:48.909 --> 00:15:52.429
that contained spark plugs. Essentially, that's
00:15:52.429 --> 00:15:54.570
what you had. And then the valves were on the
00:15:54.570 --> 00:15:59.090
side of that. Okay, yeah. A bit of a relic, not
00:15:59.090 --> 00:16:04.370
really relevant at all. I mean, they will have
00:16:04.370 --> 00:16:07.700
a pretty big common... pretty big following but
00:16:07.700 --> 00:16:09.960
yeah i mean it's not something i have a massive
00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:12.519
amount of experience with to be fair they're
00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:16.299
just yeah they're an honorable mention and i
00:16:16.299 --> 00:16:18.200
don't actually know all that much about them
00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:21.000
to be fair well you knew more than me and that
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:23.360
was quite interesting to know yeah okay cool
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:27.279
fair enough and then you have what is really
00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:30.559
a relic for the vast majority of manufacturers
00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:34.259
and engines which is overhead valve So that's
00:16:34.259 --> 00:16:37.039
where you've basically got a camshaft in the
00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:41.480
block, and it's got a set of cam buckets or followers,
00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:45.120
whatever your terminology wants. They then act
00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:49.259
on a pushrod that then goes up to a rocker shaft,
00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:53.279
and then the rocker shaft transmits the reciprocal
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:57.620
movement from the pushrod into the top of the
00:16:57.620 --> 00:17:01.240
valve. Yeah, these are really, really kind of...
00:17:01.769 --> 00:17:03.850
funny to watch because they like they remind
00:17:03.850 --> 00:17:06.470
me of a musical instrument in a lot of ways yes
00:17:06.470 --> 00:17:12.009
now one advantage you have like your overhead
00:17:12.009 --> 00:17:15.670
valves they tend to be much smaller so you can
00:17:15.670 --> 00:17:18.289
make a much more condensed package and like one
00:17:18.289 --> 00:17:20.470
way of describing that would be if you look at
00:17:20.470 --> 00:17:25.170
an ls1 v8 side by side with like a modern four
00:17:25.170 --> 00:17:28.950
cylinder engine it's almost embarrassing how
00:17:28.950 --> 00:17:32.589
you can fit eight cylinders and nearly three
00:17:32.589 --> 00:17:34.609
times the displacement in the same footprint
00:17:34.609 --> 00:17:38.789
as a two liter four cylinder is that with all
00:17:38.789 --> 00:17:42.029
of the junk attached you know all of the ancillaries
00:17:42.029 --> 00:17:45.490
yeah like if you if the ancillaries are attached
00:17:45.490 --> 00:17:49.049
like for like typically you can fit an over like
00:17:49.049 --> 00:17:54.009
an ls1 v8 in place of like a 2j for example you'll
00:17:54.009 --> 00:17:57.559
save an absolute ton in weight you'll have a
00:17:57.559 --> 00:17:59.900
shorter package which means you've got less overhang
00:17:59.900 --> 00:18:03.880
over the front axle and generally it'll be smaller
00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:08.680
lighter and dare i say easier to work on okay
00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:14.000
interesting they do tend to have died out for
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:16.619
the most part it's only really a big american
00:18:16.619 --> 00:18:20.680
v8 and some audit engines nowadays that have
00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:23.539
them so you're talking like bmca series like
00:18:23.539 --> 00:18:25.420
what the minis came with and that sort of thing
00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:28.259
They are really, really basic. That's one of
00:18:28.259 --> 00:18:32.920
their things. It's a really simple idea. Yeah,
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:36.859
definitely. I mean, for the BMC, there is performance
00:18:36.859 --> 00:18:39.279
benefits to go in dual overhead cam, to be fair.
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:42.079
Although everyone with an LS1 V8 will say you
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:45.420
don't need it. But you get conversion kits for
00:18:45.420 --> 00:18:48.359
BMC A -series engines for a reason, to make them
00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:52.140
into dual overhead cam engines. And the need
00:18:52.140 --> 00:18:54.920
is there. to improve performance although to
00:18:54.920 --> 00:18:56.660
be honest with that engine a lot of it's to do
00:18:56.660 --> 00:18:59.440
with the way that the ports are set up but we'll
00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:03.960
not get into that there okay that's a very british
00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.980
car enthusiast flat cap anorak speaking with
00:19:07.980 --> 00:19:14.180
a lot of adenoids right so we're kind of getting
00:19:14.180 --> 00:19:16.799
into the more interesting stuff now which is
00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:21.079
like your rotational mass and the kind of impacts
00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:24.599
that that has on revving. Now, the big one here
00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:27.859
is like, this is like a fundamental engine design
00:19:27.859 --> 00:19:32.339
sort of thing. And you've got over square versus
00:19:32.339 --> 00:19:35.799
under square. And that's to do with the width
00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:40.440
of the piston and also the travel, vertical travel.
00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:45.019
So over square is your bore is wider than what
00:19:45.019 --> 00:19:48.480
your stroke is long. Yep. And under square is
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:51.759
that it's narrower than what the stroke is long.
00:19:52.019 --> 00:19:54.539
Now, the be all and end, this is very simplistic,
00:19:54.700 --> 00:19:57.740
by the way. We're not holding a fucking seminar
00:19:57.740 --> 00:20:01.380
in engine design. This is nice and easy, nice
00:20:01.380 --> 00:20:04.839
and simple. So over square, typically, you're
00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:07.980
going to have a higher power band. You're going
00:20:07.980 --> 00:20:11.079
to have typically lower piston speeds because
00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:14.839
you're traveling less distance. And they're going
00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:18.339
to be, have that really nice rev happy nature.
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:21.279
You know that when you get in an engine that
00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:25.440
actually begs to be revved. Yeah. Typically higher
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.940
red lines as well. Pretty much all your Formula
00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:32.160
One engines are an over square design. Which
00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:37.279
is a wider bore than stroke. Yeah. I mean, you
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:40.700
could like go to extremes. You could have a bore.
00:20:40.859 --> 00:20:44.440
You could have a 10 liter engine with a. 25 millimeter
00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:46.680
stroke if you took it to the massive extreme
00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:51.519
and had like a 250 millimeter diameter um cylinder
00:20:51.519 --> 00:20:55.880
like but there is there is a sweet spot where
00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:58.819
you get the laws of diminishing returns as with
00:20:58.819 --> 00:21:01.960
everything due to the laws of physics and under
00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:04.619
square engines typically tend to be this the
00:21:04.619 --> 00:21:07.839
opposite so you're gonna have much higher piston
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:12.579
speeds typically a lower power band a lower rev
00:21:12.579 --> 00:21:18.119
limit as well so yeah that's really interesting
00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:21.819
yeah yeah definitely that's that's really interesting
00:21:21.819 --> 00:21:28.279
to to know now there's more here as well so then
00:21:28.279 --> 00:21:31.099
you have like differences in camshaft uh camshaft
00:21:31.099 --> 00:21:33.960
differences in crankshaft so you get like cross
00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:36.819
plane is a big one so you know how you have the
00:21:36.819 --> 00:21:40.200
difference in sound between an american v8 and
00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:44.250
a ferrari v8 for example. Yeah, yeah. A lot of
00:21:44.250 --> 00:21:50.589
that is due to the cross -plane cranks. They're
00:21:50.589 --> 00:21:55.430
very common in European V8s, not so much in American
00:21:55.430 --> 00:21:59.349
ones. Okay, but what are they? So, essentially,
00:21:59.670 --> 00:22:03.769
they even out the distance between your power
00:22:03.769 --> 00:22:06.690
strokes when you look at it rotationally. Right.
00:22:07.210 --> 00:22:10.839
It's to do with... how you're the timing of how
00:22:10.839 --> 00:22:12.960
you're delivering where your power strokes are
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:16.180
so the the configuration of your crankshaft plays
00:22:16.180 --> 00:22:18.819
into the configuration of your cams and your
00:22:18.819 --> 00:22:20.740
well it's not the configuration of your cams
00:22:20.740 --> 00:22:23.660
but the setup of your cams so it'll dictate what
00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:25.859
cylinder is going to be on what stroke at what
00:22:25.859 --> 00:22:27.940
time and what other cylinders are going to be
00:22:27.940 --> 00:22:30.460
on what other stroke at what time exactly yeah
00:22:30.460 --> 00:22:36.880
totally yeah um so for me i prefer the sound
00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:41.960
of a air quotes European V8. That really high
00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:46.859
-pitched, fine noise. Yes. Yeah. It's just, it's
00:22:46.859 --> 00:22:49.579
the boy, you know? It does sound great, yeah.
00:22:49.819 --> 00:22:54.259
It's amazing. The same bit here, you've got a
00:22:54.259 --> 00:22:56.920
lot of clever coatings going on. So, like, BMW
00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:00.779
had this in the 90s with the E36 and the 328i's
00:23:00.779 --> 00:23:04.750
with Nikasil. And, basically... The death of
00:23:04.750 --> 00:23:07.210
leaded fuels kind of killed it off, and everybody
00:23:07.210 --> 00:23:10.289
got pitting in the bores, and it was just a massive
00:23:10.289 --> 00:23:12.869
thing, and that's why nobody wanted a 328i for
00:23:12.869 --> 00:23:16.930
the longest of time. Which is mental, because
00:23:16.930 --> 00:23:19.069
the actual failure rate on the engine was a lot
00:23:19.069 --> 00:23:20.910
lower than what it actually would have been,
00:23:20.990 --> 00:23:24.750
but it got blown out of proportion. These things
00:23:24.750 --> 00:23:26.509
sometimes take on a life of their own, don't
00:23:26.509 --> 00:23:29.369
they? Yeah. It's a lot like everything. I mean,
00:23:29.369 --> 00:23:31.630
the RX -8 fucking fell foul of it, didn't it?
00:23:32.250 --> 00:23:36.380
Yeah. um i'm trying to think of more um two liter
00:23:36.380 --> 00:23:38.640
tdi engines when they came out i don't know if
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:41.220
this one was like public though and this was
00:23:41.220 --> 00:23:42.920
certainly in the motor trade like the amount
00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:46.180
of those that were munching so the the timing
00:23:46.180 --> 00:23:49.619
set upon them was a timing chain from the crank
00:23:49.619 --> 00:23:52.460
to the oil pump and there was a fault on some
00:23:52.460 --> 00:23:54.779
of the early ones where the chain i can't remember
00:23:54.779 --> 00:23:57.359
how it actually what the mode of failure was
00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:00.660
but basically the chain fell off and you could
00:24:00.660 --> 00:24:03.890
be doing like 4000 rpm accelerating out of a
00:24:03.890 --> 00:24:06.349
junction and it would just go there's no oil
00:24:06.349 --> 00:24:08.890
pump and none of the bearings have oil and you're
00:24:08.890 --> 00:24:12.930
going really fast yeah and then you get knock
00:24:12.930 --> 00:24:15.710
knock knock engine death rodney's here to play
00:24:15.710 --> 00:24:20.670
putting a window in your block oh no yeah so
00:24:20.670 --> 00:24:25.009
that's the worst kind of um engine failure as
00:24:25.009 --> 00:24:28.009
well the catastrophic one yeah because i mean
00:24:28.009 --> 00:24:29.509
there's not really any coming back from that
00:24:29.509 --> 00:24:33.200
you know I've tried it with MR2s in the past.
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:36.160
So MR2s have this thing where they're a non -interference
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:40.619
engine, where if the timing belt snaps, the pistons
00:24:40.619 --> 00:24:42.380
and the valves don't collide. There's enough
00:24:42.380 --> 00:24:45.240
clearance that they can all freewheel and just
00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:48.500
nothing happens. Oh, I get you, yeah. And I'd
00:24:48.500 --> 00:24:51.180
bought two or three of them that have had the
00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:56.119
belt snap. And within six months, usually, what
00:24:56.119 --> 00:24:58.660
I find is that you end up having to do the bottom
00:24:58.660 --> 00:25:01.640
end on them. and it's because the oil pump's
00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:04.599
driven off the cam belt as well so when it snaps
00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:07.160
you lose your lubrication and then you end up
00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:10.160
running dry and it doesn't matter that it's not
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:12.559
running under power what matters is you're still
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:15.259
doing fucking 7000 rpm and you've got all that
00:25:15.259 --> 00:25:19.299
inertia to like bleed off through rotations before
00:25:19.299 --> 00:25:22.519
it'll stop so it's like even though you're trying
00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:24.839
to stop it it doesn't matter it's going to continue
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:27.859
running on and there's nothing you can really
00:25:27.859 --> 00:25:30.869
do about it The oil is going to get squished
00:25:30.869 --> 00:25:34.230
out of the shells very quickly just because of
00:25:34.230 --> 00:25:36.109
the nature of the movements in an engine. And
00:25:36.109 --> 00:25:39.150
then you're going to have rod knock. It's doing
00:25:39.150 --> 00:25:41.789
damage, isn't it? Yeah. I mean, that's all it
00:25:41.789 --> 00:25:46.589
is. I mean, the important thing to mention when
00:25:46.589 --> 00:25:49.049
you're talking about this as well is you're generally,
00:25:49.089 --> 00:25:52.769
the only reason an engine works is because you're
00:25:52.769 --> 00:25:56.890
maintaining a film of oil between all of the
00:25:56.890 --> 00:26:00.089
moving parts. absolutely yeah and they're like
00:26:00.089 --> 00:26:03.269
the crank and block can have all kinds of little
00:26:03.269 --> 00:26:07.509
oil feeds and oil returns yeah i mean there's
00:26:07.509 --> 00:26:09.869
there's loads of stuff you can do as well like
00:26:09.869 --> 00:26:12.789
there's there's a big thing with teardropping
00:26:12.789 --> 00:26:15.950
journal oil feeds which instead of just having
00:26:15.950 --> 00:26:18.230
a hole is that they're diagrammed into a teardrop
00:26:18.230 --> 00:26:20.990
shape yeah and the idea was that it increases
00:26:20.990 --> 00:26:24.769
the oil it increases the oiling efficiency but
00:26:24.769 --> 00:26:27.309
i mean to me I've never seen anything to actually
00:26:27.309 --> 00:26:31.529
prove that. But in the same vein, I've not had
00:26:31.529 --> 00:26:33.569
anyone come to me with an engine that's been
00:26:33.569 --> 00:26:36.630
teardropped and they're like, oh, my fucking
00:26:36.630 --> 00:26:39.890
bottom end has fell out. That's a horrible sentence
00:26:39.890 --> 00:26:45.650
to have to say as a human or a car owner. But
00:26:45.650 --> 00:26:47.710
yeah, so I mean, I've never seen any real evidence
00:26:47.710 --> 00:26:50.690
of like it does anything to the detriment, but
00:26:50.690 --> 00:26:53.150
I'm not convinced it's absolutely necessary when
00:26:53.150 --> 00:26:56.220
you're building an engine either. Fair. You get
00:26:56.220 --> 00:26:59.500
a lot of cool stuff, though, with, like, lubrication
00:26:59.500 --> 00:27:02.799
system, where you get oil squirters. They squirt
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:06.099
oil up underneath the pistons. So, like, the
00:27:06.099 --> 00:27:10.299
2J turbos had this, and it's to cool the pistons.
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:14.539
All right. And generally, what you find is the
00:27:14.539 --> 00:27:16.500
engines that have that versus the engines that
00:27:16.500 --> 00:27:20.380
don't. So, like, the 2JZ GTE versus the GE, when
00:27:20.380 --> 00:27:22.960
you turbo both of them. There's been a lot of
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:25.480
anecdotal evidence that they're not needed, but
00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:28.460
then I see a lot of higher power GTE engines
00:27:28.460 --> 00:27:32.460
than I do GE engines. So it is what it is. And
00:27:32.460 --> 00:27:34.319
then you get people that argue that it's like,
00:27:34.380 --> 00:27:36.380
oh, no, you don't want them because they create
00:27:36.380 --> 00:27:39.900
windage at high RPM. It's like, but you've got
00:27:39.900 --> 00:27:42.380
a crankshaft splashing into an oil bath. It's
00:27:42.380 --> 00:27:44.900
going to create fucking windage anyway at high
00:27:44.900 --> 00:27:48.940
RPM. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, there's
00:27:48.940 --> 00:27:51.279
a lot of what I'm trying to say. is like when
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:53.980
you get into that kind of side of it it depends
00:27:53.980 --> 00:27:56.160
who you talk to everyone's going to have an opinion
00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:57.980
and everyone's going to have the right opinion
00:27:57.980 --> 00:28:00.640
as well yeah i totally get it there's there is
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:03.539
no real data to prove what one way or the other
00:28:03.539 --> 00:28:07.380
so it's all anecdotal and everyone's a bit committed
00:28:07.380 --> 00:28:10.119
to their own side yeah that's pretty much it
00:28:10.119 --> 00:28:12.839
i mean the second somebody from cosworth turns
00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:16.099
around and goes that's incorrect you're a fucking
00:28:16.099 --> 00:28:18.920
idiot shut your fucking mouth at that point I'll
00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:20.759
be like, okay, that man knows what he's talking
00:28:20.759 --> 00:28:22.920
about. They built some of the best engines they've
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:28.019
ever fucking made. But yeah, I suppose back to
00:28:28.019 --> 00:28:30.779
what we were on there, so like rotational mass
00:28:30.779 --> 00:28:35.779
and the appetite for revs, widespread growth
00:28:35.779 --> 00:28:39.940
of dual mass flywheels is something that I absolutely
00:28:39.940 --> 00:28:43.619
fucking lament as well. Yeah, what is the dual
00:28:43.619 --> 00:28:47.440
mass flywheel? So... You have a single mass flywheel,
00:28:47.539 --> 00:28:49.880
which is literally just a flywheel. Now, the
00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:53.180
reason for it is to create inertia. So if you
00:28:53.180 --> 00:28:56.420
have a flywheel that's too light, your engine
00:28:56.420 --> 00:29:00.019
will stall at a low RPM. So it's to make your
00:29:00.019 --> 00:29:03.920
engine work better at idle, essentially. It won't
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:06.559
actually idle without it because of the gaps
00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:08.960
in between your power pulses when you're firing.
00:29:09.839 --> 00:29:13.799
Does it help kind of like keep the engine fairly
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:17.420
smooth? between gear changes as well. That's
00:29:17.420 --> 00:29:22.220
another function of it. And the dual mass was
00:29:22.220 --> 00:29:27.299
intended to increase the smoothness and the refinement.
00:29:27.859 --> 00:29:30.579
So essentially what you have inside a dual mass
00:29:30.579 --> 00:29:34.579
is a load of springs with weights on them. Oh
00:29:34.579 --> 00:29:37.759
no, I'm worried already. Yeah, it's a fucking
00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:41.319
horrible thing. And they're horrifically expensive.
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:44.619
So whenever you do a clutch on a modern diesel,
00:29:44.900 --> 00:29:47.440
nine out of ten times, most garages will be like,
00:29:47.500 --> 00:29:49.359
it's got to be over a thousand pound pile. Because
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:50.960
if we go in there, we're putting a dual mass
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:53.339
flywheel in it. Because as soon as you drive
00:29:53.339 --> 00:29:57.059
out of here, it's going to fuck up. And they've
00:29:57.059 --> 00:29:59.400
got all the labour to do again to change the
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:02.680
same fucking thing. Nine out of ten times. I've
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:05.019
never, ever done a clutch on a car with a dual
00:30:05.019 --> 00:30:07.140
mass flywheel and taken the dual mass flywheel
00:30:07.140 --> 00:30:10.380
out and found it to be serviceable. They've always
00:30:10.380 --> 00:30:13.940
been fucked. Fair. I mean, what is the purpose
00:30:13.940 --> 00:30:16.420
of them, really, though? Why do they have to
00:30:16.420 --> 00:30:19.859
be dual mass? I assume that they can separate,
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:21.700
so you can have a lighter one and a heavier one.
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:25.720
No, it's all the same unit. So it's on springs
00:30:25.720 --> 00:30:30.799
because the weights can go out as it revs. Oh,
00:30:31.000 --> 00:30:33.960
okay. Because if you move the weight further
00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:36.460
to the outside of your rotational distance, the
00:30:36.460 --> 00:30:42.819
heavier it is. So it's that, essentially. What
00:30:42.819 --> 00:30:44.740
I've done a lot of the time was weld the fucking
00:30:44.740 --> 00:30:46.980
hangs up so they couldn't move and then throw
00:30:46.980 --> 00:30:49.900
them back in. And not one single fucking person
00:30:49.900 --> 00:30:53.799
has ever complained about it. Nobody has came
00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:55.640
back to me and said, you know, since you welded
00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:58.279
that up because I'm too cheap to buy a dual mass
00:30:58.279 --> 00:31:00.720
flywheel, I'm like, yeah. I can't sit in my car.
00:31:00.799 --> 00:31:03.380
It's too rough. It's too coarse. There's too
00:31:03.380 --> 00:31:06.359
many vibrations. I've never had it. I think,
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:09.180
genuinely, if OEMs were all to switch to using
00:31:09.180 --> 00:31:11.900
single -mass flywheels, nobody on the planet
00:31:11.900 --> 00:31:14.440
would actually ever realise there was a difference.
00:31:15.500 --> 00:31:17.720
And then you've got balancer shafts, which are
00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:20.000
much the same thing. They're there to remove...
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:22.420
Make sure the engine stays in balance. Yeah,
00:31:22.539 --> 00:31:25.720
they remove unwanted harmonics, essentially.
00:31:26.329 --> 00:31:30.170
They are, yeah. They're really common on oddly
00:31:30.170 --> 00:31:36.130
sized inline fours and flats. V6s are really
00:31:36.130 --> 00:31:39.230
common because they're so inherently horribly
00:31:39.230 --> 00:31:42.849
balanced that they need them to actually work.
00:31:43.410 --> 00:31:47.069
Yeah, inline threes? No, inline threes shouldn't
00:31:47.069 --> 00:31:50.990
be too bad. No, actually, they should. It's half
00:31:50.990 --> 00:31:53.529
a straight six. I don't know. I'd have to have
00:31:53.529 --> 00:31:58.150
a look. Inline frees weren't massively common
00:31:58.150 --> 00:32:00.869
when I'd done my qualifications anyway. I mean,
00:32:00.890 --> 00:32:03.490
I didn't really do much with them until I was
00:32:03.490 --> 00:32:05.750
actually out of the motor trade, to be fair.
00:32:06.130 --> 00:32:08.869
Yeah, absolutely. That is fair. They have become
00:32:08.869 --> 00:32:11.910
a lot more popular recently. They have. And I
00:32:11.910 --> 00:32:13.589
actually like them, man. They've got a nice noise.
00:32:14.049 --> 00:32:16.029
They do have quite a fun noise, yeah. I don't
00:32:16.029 --> 00:32:19.029
hate a three -pot. I mean, the little Yaris that
00:32:19.029 --> 00:32:21.650
could have done well with its little three -pot
00:32:21.650 --> 00:32:29.099
engine, like, it... I could not kill it. I love
00:32:29.099 --> 00:32:31.259
how of all the cars that Yaris is kind of like
00:32:31.259 --> 00:32:35.519
special. I loved my Yaris, man. Yeah, I know.
00:32:35.920 --> 00:32:40.279
It was an absolute bucket, right? But I mean,
00:32:40.279 --> 00:32:43.359
I bought it for 400 quid and it had like 180
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:46.279
,000 miles on it and I gave it fucking death,
00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:49.140
man. Like, I would rev it till the valves came
00:32:49.140 --> 00:32:51.279
out and danced on the bonnet and then I would
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:53.500
rev it some more and then I would change gear.
00:32:53.900 --> 00:33:01.039
um and it just took it would not die i'd actually
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:02.740
have another one in a heartbeat you know but
00:33:02.740 --> 00:33:05.700
i would have the 1 .8 what was your one the 1
00:33:05.700 --> 00:33:10.279
.2 no the one it was it was like a 0 .9 oh yeah
00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:12.559
of course it was the three pot yeah wow yeah
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:15.059
no wonder you drove that on the red line everywhere
00:33:15.059 --> 00:33:19.039
yeah i mean mate honestly i had a decent turn
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:22.890
of speed to be fair, for a little 900cc freepot.
00:33:23.910 --> 00:33:26.549
I loved it, I thought it was class. But I mean,
00:33:26.549 --> 00:33:30.910
I also loved my Supra, so, you know. Yeah, totally,
00:33:31.130 --> 00:33:33.490
totally. There's one that I would rather have.
00:33:35.210 --> 00:33:41.250
Yeah. Yeah, no, honestly, I'm not sure on the
00:33:41.250 --> 00:33:44.329
three cylinders. I would imagine, part of me
00:33:44.329 --> 00:33:46.569
wants to say they should be fine, because as
00:33:46.569 --> 00:33:48.529
you have a cylinder going down, you've got a
00:33:48.529 --> 00:33:50.259
cylinder coming up. and you'll have a cylinder
00:33:50.259 --> 00:33:54.220
in the middle. Will it not be kind of a tip over
00:33:54.220 --> 00:33:58.619
on the axis, you know, along the, you know, when
00:33:58.619 --> 00:34:00.160
one's going down and then immediately on the
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:01.720
other side it's going up, that's causing quite
00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:04.720
a lot of rotational force there. Yeah, you may
00:34:04.720 --> 00:34:07.980
well find that they're quite common with balance
00:34:07.980 --> 00:34:10.340
shafts, but honestly, I don't know off the top
00:34:10.340 --> 00:34:12.659
of my head. Fair enough, I did not mean to bog
00:34:12.659 --> 00:34:14.840
us down on actually solving this issue right
00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:17.199
here and right now. No, hey man, it's a good
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:19.880
question. And it's something I will have to look
00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:23.219
into. Because a very good saying for you, you
00:34:23.219 --> 00:34:25.920
know, in fact, no, I won't say that. It's a bit
00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:30.340
too mental for the podcast, I think. I'll park
00:34:30.340 --> 00:34:35.420
that one. I'll tell you that one later. So, yeah,
00:34:35.500 --> 00:34:38.400
I mean, we've kind of covered construction and
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:42.099
coatings and rotational mass. So the kind of
00:34:42.099 --> 00:34:45.000
next bit's displacement. And this is where it
00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:48.440
gets a bit more discussion -y, hopefully. Like
00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:52.179
me and you kind of come from an era where the
00:34:52.179 --> 00:34:56.800
two, especially in the UK, two liters were ubiquitous.
00:34:57.139 --> 00:35:01.380
Aye, definitely. And for the longest time, pretty
00:35:01.380 --> 00:35:05.139
much any fast car that was really accessible
00:35:05.139 --> 00:35:10.800
for me was a two liter four cylinder. And if
00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:13.000
you were lucky, you might get a turbo. Yeah.
00:35:13.219 --> 00:35:16.059
Like the really fast ones, like your Imprezas
00:35:16.059 --> 00:35:19.769
and your Evos. uh silica gt4s they they were
00:35:19.769 --> 00:35:23.170
the turboed ones and then like it seemed like
00:35:23.170 --> 00:35:25.789
every hot model was a two liter four cylinder
00:35:25.789 --> 00:35:30.429
um yeah absolutely there was like the rs4s and
00:35:30.429 --> 00:35:34.989
stuff that were 2 .7 v6s and all that crap but
00:35:34.989 --> 00:35:39.989
like that was the engine size most common cars
00:35:39.989 --> 00:35:43.329
you could always get a two liter inline four
00:35:43.329 --> 00:35:47.130
with them You know, like Fords, Vauxhalls, just
00:35:47.130 --> 00:35:49.150
kind of like run -of -the -mill car. They were
00:35:49.150 --> 00:35:51.710
all offering that, and that was usually the best
00:35:51.710 --> 00:35:55.150
engine. Apart from, yeah, as you were saying,
00:35:55.230 --> 00:35:56.789
some of the kind of more special ones where they
00:35:56.789 --> 00:35:59.690
would wedge a V6 in there or something. Yeah,
00:35:59.710 --> 00:36:03.730
and I just wanted to know, what did you think
00:36:03.730 --> 00:36:06.389
of it, the two -litre being everywhere? Like,
00:36:06.389 --> 00:36:11.829
that was the hot model, in quotes, engine size.
00:36:12.699 --> 00:36:15.880
okay so i actually can kind of remember this
00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:21.659
because i remember looking for a i started with
00:36:21.659 --> 00:36:25.300
the 1 .25 fiesta yeah i remember looking for
00:36:25.300 --> 00:36:29.059
another car um and going around like you know
00:36:29.059 --> 00:36:31.239
various kind of showrooms and looking at stuff
00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:36.619
and the the dream as it were was always get something
00:36:36.619 --> 00:36:39.320
that's two liter like i want something that's
00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:42.219
like reasonably quick i want a two liter and
00:36:42.219 --> 00:36:43.699
you know i was like really young at the time
00:36:43.699 --> 00:36:46.039
like my insurance was absolutely mental on cars
00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:50.320
yes so like i was looking at stuff that was like
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:53.860
you know one six mazda three in like you know
00:36:53.860 --> 00:36:55.400
i was like i remember going and looking at like
00:36:55.400 --> 00:36:57.980
a one six mazda three like tanara or something
00:36:57.980 --> 00:37:01.019
whatever the whatever they call that spec um
00:37:01.019 --> 00:37:03.420
and right beside it at the dealership was the
00:37:03.420 --> 00:37:08.500
two liter um mazda three kind of sport or something
00:37:09.079 --> 00:37:11.539
and it just was way more appealing like i really
00:37:11.539 --> 00:37:14.940
would it was like why i can't buy the 1 .6 knowing
00:37:14.940 --> 00:37:18.360
that that exists and that's also available like
00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:21.000
that's just i just wasn't up for it i was just
00:37:21.000 --> 00:37:23.780
like i can't i really want a bigger i want a
00:37:23.780 --> 00:37:27.159
bigger engine i tried a 1 .6 or maybe a 1 .8
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:30.139
focus and i was like uh didn't really like the
00:37:30.139 --> 00:37:31.739
focus to be honest it felt like driving a bus
00:37:31.739 --> 00:37:34.599
yeah actually to be honest i felt the mazda3
00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:37.400
kind of had quite a high weirdly straight seeing
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:42.679
position as well But then I ended up seeing a
00:37:42.679 --> 00:37:48.800
Volvo, a two -litre diesel Volvo S40. And for
00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:52.559
some reason, I bought that. I think I liked the
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:54.239
fact it was two -litre, even though it was fucking
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:58.260
diesel. It was really torquey, but ultimately
00:37:58.260 --> 00:38:01.940
quite a crap drive. Yeah. But yeah, no, I totally
00:38:01.940 --> 00:38:04.599
remember. I remember actively thinking, two -litre,
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:08.619
oh, I want some of that. As time has gone on,
00:38:08.659 --> 00:38:12.159
I have realised that actually a 2 litre Redline
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:15.559
4 is kind of one of the most boring engine configurations
00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:19.079
out there. Like there's more interesting, weird
00:38:19.079 --> 00:38:24.579
stuff. Yeah. And I mean, I get why, because it's
00:38:24.579 --> 00:38:27.420
like, it's easy to package. But do you know the
00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:30.679
thing that I miss the most about it? The 2 litre
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:34.199
being the hot model era was... Like, I had the
00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:36.460
Ford Escort when I was learning to drive, right?
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:40.139
I got a 1 .3 and then I sold it and I bought
00:38:40.139 --> 00:38:45.119
a 1 .8, right? Oh, the power. Yeah, but this
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:49.019
is the thing. Because it was that era and it
00:38:49.019 --> 00:38:53.460
was just what the technology was like. It was
00:38:53.460 --> 00:38:56.960
like, on a shoestring, essentially for 100 quid,
00:38:56.960 --> 00:38:59.380
I could get an extra fucking 25 brake horsepower.
00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:03.010
Totally. Which was, I go down to Scrapyard, I
00:39:03.010 --> 00:39:05.449
find a two -litre Mondeo, I pull the engine out
00:39:05.449 --> 00:39:08.150
of it, and I slap it into the Escort. And it's
00:39:08.150 --> 00:39:11.269
like I've went from 115 brake to 150 for 100
00:39:11.269 --> 00:39:14.210
quid. Now, hey, you're not going to set the world
00:39:14.210 --> 00:39:17.610
on fire with a 150 brake. But when you're in
00:39:17.610 --> 00:39:20.429
a car that weighs 1 ,300 kilos and you can get
00:39:20.429 --> 00:39:24.670
it down to about a tonne pretty easily, 150 brake's
00:39:24.670 --> 00:39:27.880
not bad when you're 17. oh no that's plenty absolutely
00:39:27.880 --> 00:39:30.039
that's plenty like i think you hit on a really
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:32.739
good point where you say the cars they were lighter
00:39:32.739 --> 00:39:35.840
so back when two liters naturally aspirated was
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:38.079
quite a hot model the cars themselves were not
00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:41.920
as heavy so it felt more it felt like more yeah
00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:45.880
like back then like the two liter focus that
00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:49.840
was so common was actually quite nippy in the
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:52.300
mark one not the mark two the mark two was like
00:39:52.590 --> 00:39:55.210
The Mark 2 was fed nothing but KFC and Burger
00:39:55.210 --> 00:39:59.590
King, but the Mark 1 was actually a decent steer,
00:39:59.809 --> 00:40:03.010
and the 2 litre was reasonably nippy, and it
00:40:03.010 --> 00:40:05.789
didn't have to be the ST or anything. Like, thank
00:40:05.789 --> 00:40:09.369
fuck, because we don't like the STs. But, yeah,
00:40:09.369 --> 00:40:11.929
no, just with the weight of the cars at the time,
00:40:11.989 --> 00:40:15.750
it was really good. I think I would probably
00:40:15.750 --> 00:40:21.809
see 2 litre turbocharged as kind of like on the...
00:40:22.300 --> 00:40:24.440
more basic end of what i'd look for in a car
00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:27.119
yeah that's fair but it's still good like i'm
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:28.960
not gonna knock it there's some cars there's
00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:31.340
some amazing cars out there with that that engine
00:40:31.340 --> 00:40:35.880
kind of style but i i've experienced it in a
00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:40.380
lot of ways yeah so that's the kind of thoughts
00:40:40.380 --> 00:40:45.260
there now the next two the downsizing trend now
00:40:45.260 --> 00:40:48.360
i don't really have anything i don't have anything
00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:51.199
against this because it means more turbos and
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:54.920
more turbos now means more turbos in scrapyards
00:40:54.920 --> 00:40:58.639
in 10 years' time, which means cheap turbo conversions
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:03.960
for everyone, right? Mainly you. Mainly me. So
00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:07.500
what do you think on that? And more importantly,
00:41:07.699 --> 00:41:10.579
against the trend of what's happening in the
00:41:10.579 --> 00:41:12.820
industry, do you think it would ever apply to
00:41:12.820 --> 00:41:16.099
you? Because you've got the 3 -litre turbo straight
00:41:16.099 --> 00:41:19.599
-six now. Yeah. Would you ever go down? Would
00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:22.420
you ever be like, I'll go down in displacement
00:41:22.420 --> 00:41:28.159
again? Or what's your thoughts on personally
00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:35.159
and the trend at large? So personally, I would
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:37.659
maybe go down, but it would have to be the right
00:41:37.659 --> 00:41:41.699
car. But generally, the way I've bought cars
00:41:41.699 --> 00:41:44.539
is looked at the current horsepower figure of
00:41:44.539 --> 00:41:46.940
my car and then compared all of the ones I could
00:41:46.940 --> 00:41:49.920
afford and then picked one of the highest numbers.
00:41:50.590 --> 00:41:52.710
So that's just generally increased displacement
00:41:52.710 --> 00:41:56.949
over time. So the next car I probably buy would
00:41:56.949 --> 00:41:58.590
probably look for it to be a little bit more
00:41:58.590 --> 00:42:01.909
powerful than the one I've got. And if it had
00:42:01.909 --> 00:42:05.230
a V8 or something like that, that would be a
00:42:05.230 --> 00:42:09.289
bit of a bonus. Fair enough, yeah. So I actually
00:42:09.289 --> 00:42:12.510
quite like big displacement cars. I've talked
00:42:12.510 --> 00:42:14.730
before about how I just get terrible fuel economy
00:42:14.730 --> 00:42:17.309
no matter what I drive, so I don't even bother
00:42:17.309 --> 00:42:21.690
trying. um so like i wouldn't mind a va i wouldn't
00:42:21.690 --> 00:42:23.489
mind that it was thursday and be like right well
00:42:23.489 --> 00:42:26.550
you know i did buy it and like you know i don't
00:42:26.550 --> 00:42:30.210
do an insane amount of driving um and when i
00:42:30.210 --> 00:42:35.230
do i usually get crap mpg fair play but the industry
00:42:35.230 --> 00:42:38.329
at large you know i understand why it's happening
00:42:38.329 --> 00:42:43.530
like i totally get a y three cylinder turbo kind
00:42:43.530 --> 00:42:46.530
of like very small very like you know quite like
00:42:46.989 --> 00:42:49.269
quite powerful for their size and package and
00:42:49.269 --> 00:42:50.909
stuff like that but also very fuel efficient
00:42:50.909 --> 00:42:54.130
because of their size and package being like
00:42:54.130 --> 00:42:56.650
under one liter and all the benefits you can
00:42:56.650 --> 00:42:58.090
get you know them being like in the right tax
00:42:58.090 --> 00:43:01.510
bracket and stuff like that um but i just they're
00:43:01.510 --> 00:43:04.230
just not something that i would really ever look
00:43:04.230 --> 00:43:05.789
at if you know what i mean it's like it's almost
00:43:05.789 --> 00:43:10.170
out of what i look at in the car industry just
00:43:10.170 --> 00:43:13.030
they're all things that i don't know maybe i'd
00:43:13.030 --> 00:43:15.030
have to drive one day as like a higher car or
00:43:15.030 --> 00:43:17.059
something but I would never have to live with.
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:21.900
Yeah, that's fair. I mean, due to co -part adventuring
00:43:21.900 --> 00:43:23.820
going on at the minute, I'm driving an awful
00:43:23.820 --> 00:43:27.440
lot of one -litre three -cylinder and four -cylinder
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.619
turbos. And there's nothing inherently wrong
00:43:30.619 --> 00:43:33.440
with them, but they just leave me wanting more.
00:43:34.139 --> 00:43:36.480
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've driven a couple where,
00:43:36.579 --> 00:43:38.079
like, you know that initial when you put your
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:40.860
foot down, the car really does feel like it picks
00:43:40.860 --> 00:43:43.880
up. But then you get over a certain speed and
00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:47.840
there's just nothing there. Just noise. Yeah,
00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:52.380
just noise. It's like the engine fought wind
00:43:52.380 --> 00:43:55.719
resistance and then it hit its limit and that's
00:43:55.719 --> 00:43:59.340
it. That's all it's got. This is no VMAX. Yeah,
00:43:59.460 --> 00:44:06.489
that's fair. And it's also terrible. I can't
00:44:06.489 --> 00:44:08.869
disagree with any of your points. I mean, especially
00:44:08.869 --> 00:44:11.489
the personal view. I mean, I would never look
00:44:11.489 --> 00:44:15.809
to go below a 2 litre again. Yeah, I mean, I
00:44:15.809 --> 00:44:18.050
could maybe do a 1 .8, as long as it's got a
00:44:18.050 --> 00:44:21.989
turbo. For me, like, I never even liked 2 litres,
00:44:22.090 --> 00:44:24.409
to be fair, because I always thought they were
00:44:24.409 --> 00:44:27.050
a bit, ah, meh, it's 2 litre. Like, why can't
00:44:27.050 --> 00:44:30.590
I have a 2 .2 or a 2 .3? Now, there's a... And
00:44:30.590 --> 00:44:32.840
this is just... fucking total bollocks for me
00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:34.719
because I don't know why I prefer it but a 2
00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:37.820
.3 is like oh what an engine size that's nice
00:44:37.820 --> 00:44:40.900
I think because I'm into bikes it's because of
00:44:40.900 --> 00:44:43.539
the mid -sized bikes like your 750s and your
00:44:43.539 --> 00:44:46.920
635s and your 675s they've got that little bit
00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:50.019
more mid -range torque but they still handle
00:44:50.019 --> 00:44:53.260
like the smaller engine you know they still have
00:44:53.260 --> 00:44:56.730
the really light throw playfulness that the 600s
00:44:56.730 --> 00:44:59.070
have but that's a total departure from what we're
00:44:59.070 --> 00:45:03.690
talking about here anyway yeah um okay so it's
00:45:03.690 --> 00:45:06.530
like kind of the 2 .2 .3 kind of pushing the
00:45:06.530 --> 00:45:09.570
size the kind of practical size of a four pot
00:45:09.570 --> 00:45:14.590
yeah i mean like my last quotes fast car the
00:45:14.590 --> 00:45:19.190
accord 2 .4 it wasn't all that in a bag of chips
00:45:19.190 --> 00:45:20.730
but the only reason i bought it was because of
00:45:20.730 --> 00:45:22.780
the engine Like if it was a two litre, I just
00:45:22.780 --> 00:45:24.860
would never have even looked at it. And I was
00:45:24.860 --> 00:45:27.260
just, I saw it at the right time. I was like,
00:45:27.300 --> 00:45:28.719
I'm going to go and buy that. And that was it.
00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:33.260
Simple as. I mean, the Accord wasn't slow. It
00:45:33.260 --> 00:45:37.800
also wasn't fast. Yeah. I've definitely done
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:40.559
that, buy a car based pretty much exclusively
00:45:40.559 --> 00:45:44.360
on the engine. Yeah. Because like, yeah, I remember
00:45:44.360 --> 00:45:47.500
definitely when looking for a first car. I knew
00:45:47.500 --> 00:45:50.539
um you know like Ford Vs were really really cheap
00:45:50.539 --> 00:45:53.000
it was like a mark three or four or something
00:45:53.000 --> 00:45:56.579
I can't remember but like there was the 1 .3
00:45:56.579 --> 00:46:00.820
what was it like do you check do you do the tech
00:46:00.820 --> 00:46:05.199
is that yeah with the so the eight valve essentially
00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:08.519
yep and then they had the one two five z tech
00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:13.639
which was the um 16 valve no that was the one
00:46:13.639 --> 00:46:18.889
yeah yeah yeah sorry i've become really confused
00:46:18.889 --> 00:46:22.909
yeah the 16 valve and the 16 valve was you know
00:46:22.909 --> 00:46:26.269
kind of like a bit a bit more powerful it was
00:46:26.269 --> 00:46:29.369
like the z tech was a slightly kind of like slightly
00:46:29.369 --> 00:46:32.690
better engine so that's i knew that was the one
00:46:32.690 --> 00:46:34.570
i wanted so i found a car that had that in it
00:46:34.570 --> 00:46:37.730
and was like you know broadly speaking car around
00:46:37.730 --> 00:46:39.530
it was like fine i didn't really care what color
00:46:39.530 --> 00:46:41.989
it was i didn't really care what trim level it
00:46:41.989 --> 00:46:43.789
was i just wanted it to have the right engine
00:46:43.789 --> 00:46:46.809
yeah And I've done that before since, actually.
00:46:46.929 --> 00:46:50.469
I tend to look for a motor and consider the car
00:46:50.469 --> 00:46:53.769
around it a little bit later on. See, I've done
00:46:53.769 --> 00:46:57.670
that in the past. And strangely, well, I mean,
00:46:57.670 --> 00:47:00.849
that's how I bought the Accord. But strangely,
00:47:01.070 --> 00:47:04.570
with my next, like what I want for my next car,
00:47:04.710 --> 00:47:06.650
I'm not going to be able to do that, which is
00:47:06.650 --> 00:47:10.489
quite weird. Because with me going 911 next,
00:47:10.630 --> 00:47:14.820
as I believe I'm going to. I really want a Mezger
00:47:14.820 --> 00:47:17.340
engine, but all the cars that contain Mezger
00:47:17.340 --> 00:47:21.940
engines are ridiculously expensive. So I might
00:47:21.940 --> 00:47:25.099
end up with an M96 or an M97 and then have to
00:47:25.099 --> 00:47:30.099
deal with IMS failure and bore scoring and RMS
00:47:30.099 --> 00:47:34.260
issues. Yes, it's got to be fun. Brilliant. But
00:47:34.260 --> 00:47:36.340
the good thing is, this is the thing, though.
00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:39.659
It comes back to what you were saying about the
00:47:39.659 --> 00:47:42.659
reliability before. I'm going to buy one of these
00:47:42.659 --> 00:47:45.860
knowing that that's a possibility. And because
00:47:45.860 --> 00:47:47.619
I know it's a possibility, I've already looked
00:47:47.619 --> 00:47:49.780
into what I can do to make it better. And what
00:47:49.780 --> 00:47:52.139
I can do to make it better is take that 3 .6
00:47:52.139 --> 00:47:54.880
or that 3 .8 and make a four litre. Make your
00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:59.820
own four litre. Yeah, like strip it down, take
00:47:59.820 --> 00:48:02.239
the block away, get bored out, put new cylinder
00:48:02.239 --> 00:48:04.840
liners in it. There we go. No more cylinder scoring.
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:06.800
And while it's in pieces, I might as well do
00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:10.420
the IMS bearing as well. so it's like bish bash
00:48:10.420 --> 00:48:15.440
bosh job done and like 600 600 quid and a couple
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:19.219
of weekends time gets it sorted and then I've
00:48:19.219 --> 00:48:23.199
got a Porsche 911 which is a 4 litre which makes
00:48:23.199 --> 00:48:27.139
more power and yeah like why the fuck wouldn't
00:48:27.139 --> 00:48:29.380
you why wouldn't you just do that and I mean
00:48:29.380 --> 00:48:31.900
I know I'm spoiled because I have the capabilities
00:48:31.900 --> 00:48:34.820
to do it myself but that's like fucking just
00:48:34.820 --> 00:48:38.000
do it go on go on YouTube and type in how to
00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:40.679
rebuild a fucking engine And do it. Nobody has
00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:47.260
any excuses. What a strangely aggressive call
00:48:47.260 --> 00:48:51.699
to arms there. Quite threatening call to arms.
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:58.320
Do you know, I hear it a lot, man. And it's like,
00:48:58.400 --> 00:49:00.179
oh, people are like, oh, I'd love to do that,
00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:02.840
but I don't have the knowledge. And this isn't
00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:04.500
anything against people that say they don't have
00:49:04.500 --> 00:49:07.340
the knowledge, but everyone has access to the
00:49:07.340 --> 00:49:11.079
ability to learn. We live in a time where knowledge
00:49:11.079 --> 00:49:14.340
is so accessible that we can literally learn
00:49:14.340 --> 00:49:17.119
to do whatever we want. But yeah, anyway, that's
00:49:17.119 --> 00:49:23.679
a little rant. Everyone out there has got a project
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:26.000
car sitting that's been neglected for a while.
00:49:26.500 --> 00:49:31.079
YouTube's the answer. I totally lost where we
00:49:31.079 --> 00:49:34.659
were. Were we talking about engine sizes? Yeah,
00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:37.179
so, I mean, I don't disagree with anything you've
00:49:37.179 --> 00:49:41.300
said on the downsizing. And I think we're going
00:49:41.300 --> 00:49:44.960
to be pretty aligned on where, like, big CC's
00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:48.500
place is in the new world order, given that everyone's
00:49:48.500 --> 00:49:51.579
wanting three cylinders and less displacement
00:49:51.579 --> 00:49:56.659
than what their bottle of milk has. Yeah, I mean,
00:49:56.679 --> 00:49:58.239
what I will say is it's impressive what they
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:00.400
can get out of a three -cylinder, like, now,
00:50:00.460 --> 00:50:02.679
compared to, like, what three -cylinder cars
00:50:02.679 --> 00:50:05.750
were. um kind of when i was just starting to
00:50:05.750 --> 00:50:09.150
like you know look for cars oh yeah and i was
00:50:09.150 --> 00:50:12.369
younger like the the change is pretty dramatic
00:50:12.369 --> 00:50:16.130
like have you seen some of the rsgrs that are
00:50:16.130 --> 00:50:18.369
floating about like some of them are making 700
00:50:18.369 --> 00:50:22.070
break from a 1 .6 three cylinder it's like what
00:50:22.070 --> 00:50:27.409
fucking mental which it actually just goes to
00:50:27.409 --> 00:50:30.210
show how fucking shite volkswagen audi group
00:50:30.210 --> 00:50:33.719
are when they needed four turbos, 16 cylinders,
00:50:33.880 --> 00:50:35.940
and eight litres of displacement in the Veyron
00:50:35.940 --> 00:50:38.239
to make a thousand -brake horsepower. I'm going
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:41.119
to find my links clicker, and when we start recording,
00:50:41.219 --> 00:50:43.400
I'm just going to click every time you have a
00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:48.159
go at Volkswagen or Motive Group, and we can
00:50:48.159 --> 00:50:49.619
do a little count at the end of the episode.
00:50:49.900 --> 00:50:53.280
We could make it a competition. We could get
00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:58.440
the number right on each episode. And we'll have
00:50:58.440 --> 00:51:01.219
a bingo card system. And anyone that fills their
00:51:01.219 --> 00:51:04.320
bingo card in is the email it in. And whoever
00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:06.619
does it first, the first email gets a prize.
00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:11.760
I'm legitimately up for doing that, by the way.
00:51:12.579 --> 00:51:14.739
I'm not sure I am. That seems like quite a lot
00:51:14.739 --> 00:51:18.019
of fucking work, to be honest, to send out a
00:51:18.019 --> 00:51:21.760
prize. No, I'm not sending a prize out. The prizes
00:51:21.760 --> 00:51:24.760
you get. Well done, young Timmy, on filling out
00:51:24.760 --> 00:51:27.420
your bingo card. That's what it'll be. Yeah,
00:51:27.420 --> 00:51:32.000
okay, prize might have been a bit generous. You
00:51:32.000 --> 00:51:35.219
get a shout -out. There we go. Aye, sorry, right,
00:51:35.380 --> 00:51:39.960
fuck. We're moving on. Displacement. Yes, displacement.
00:51:40.260 --> 00:51:43.099
So I do quite like bigger displacement cars.
00:51:43.239 --> 00:51:48.380
It's not very progressive of me, but I love a
00:51:48.380 --> 00:51:53.280
high displacement. Yeah. do you know that even
00:51:53.280 --> 00:51:57.260
big displacements like coming down in size so
00:51:57.260 --> 00:51:59.860
like big displacement now really is like three
00:51:59.860 --> 00:52:02.699
and four litre engines and I've always found
00:52:02.699 --> 00:52:05.059
them to be like the absolute perfect sweet spot
00:52:05.059 --> 00:52:08.039
for size yeah yeah I would totally agree I've
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:10.840
never really had the um like the opportunity
00:52:10.840 --> 00:52:14.699
to drive like a big big displacement lazy engine
00:52:14.699 --> 00:52:19.320
and I'd love to try one I have, but it's never
00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:23.039
been in that great a car, so it always feels
00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:25.920
like a total fucking wasted experience. Lots
00:52:25.920 --> 00:52:28.760
of Land Cruisers and stuff with big 5 .7s and
00:52:28.760 --> 00:52:32.460
that, but it's like, meh. It would probably be
00:52:32.460 --> 00:52:35.159
pretty fast if it was in the size of an average
00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:37.659
saloon, but because it's dragging half a fucking
00:52:37.659 --> 00:52:44.079
moon behind it, it's... But yeah, I mean, as
00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:46.900
with everything, they're being downsized. and
00:52:46.900 --> 00:52:49.179
they're being turboed which is only a good thing
00:52:49.179 --> 00:52:51.619
for me anyway I know that there's purists out
00:52:51.619 --> 00:52:54.099
there who aren't very happy about it but like
00:52:54.099 --> 00:52:56.619
a three litre or a four litre with a turbo on
00:52:56.619 --> 00:52:59.260
it if you've got a 1 .6 three litres kicking
00:52:59.260 --> 00:53:02.300
about out there making 700 brake what are we
00:53:02.300 --> 00:53:03.960
going to be able to do with the three litres
00:53:03.960 --> 00:53:06.460
and the four litres you know absolutely and you
00:53:06.460 --> 00:53:08.260
can make those bigger horsepower numbers a much
00:53:08.260 --> 00:53:11.360
more comfortably much more like um comfortably
00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:14.889
from like a coming material And manufacturing
00:53:14.889 --> 00:53:20.349
and engineering perspective. Yeah. Exactly. Because
00:53:20.349 --> 00:53:23.010
this is like we discussed before, like specific
00:53:23.010 --> 00:53:26.230
output is a big factor here. So like making a
00:53:26.230 --> 00:53:27.849
thousand brake horsepower is not difficult on
00:53:27.849 --> 00:53:29.789
a five litre engine because it's only 200 brake
00:53:29.789 --> 00:53:32.829
per litre, which is not a lot. No, it's not.
00:53:33.030 --> 00:53:37.010
Yeah. But yeah, I'm excited about the general
00:53:37.010 --> 00:53:40.409
trend, which is the smaller, high stress engines.
00:53:41.480 --> 00:53:43.460
I'm not sure how it's going to play out with
00:53:43.460 --> 00:53:48.119
the industry's absolute need and want to have
00:53:48.119 --> 00:53:51.500
longer and longer service intervals. I think
00:53:51.500 --> 00:53:53.639
that's a recipe for disaster, but it's going
00:53:53.639 --> 00:53:56.619
to be fun to see them all go bang. Like the EcoBoom
00:53:56.619 --> 00:54:01.260
engines on the Fords. Yeah, there's another 1
00:54:01.260 --> 00:54:04.559
.3, no, one, like what small engine that's got
00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:06.119
a wet belt as well, isn't it, in a Vauxhall?
00:54:06.300 --> 00:54:09.039
Ooh. It could be. And the only thing scarier
00:54:09.039 --> 00:54:10.920
than a wet belt in a Ford is a wet belt in a
00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:12.539
Vauxhall. Because I think Vauxhall is the only
00:54:12.539 --> 00:54:15.079
company that has worse engineering standards
00:54:15.079 --> 00:54:19.920
than a Ford. Honestly, man, I was thinking exactly
00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:22.079
the same thing. I was like, they really are duking
00:54:22.079 --> 00:54:25.039
it out at the bottom. Did it ever tell you that
00:54:25.039 --> 00:54:28.619
Vauxhall tried to make their own diesel engine
00:54:28.619 --> 00:54:31.440
once? It was... Well, they've made their own
00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:34.460
diesel engines in the past, but for the Vivaro
00:54:34.460 --> 00:54:37.510
van, and they were like... uh there was something
00:54:37.510 --> 00:54:39.929
that they share an engine i can't remember how
00:54:39.929 --> 00:54:42.210
it works but then they turned around one day
00:54:42.210 --> 00:54:43.650
and we're like this is no fucking good we're
00:54:43.650 --> 00:54:46.710
gonna make our own proprietary engine and it
00:54:46.710 --> 00:54:50.010
takes like this weird grade of oil and it has
00:54:50.010 --> 00:54:53.369
an the filter is proprietary and isn't shared
00:54:53.369 --> 00:54:55.750
with anything else and like there's a guy came
00:54:55.750 --> 00:54:59.210
in um to get it serviced once and he's like how
00:54:59.210 --> 00:55:00.769
is it as expensive we're like well that would
00:55:00.769 --> 00:55:03.630
be because your oil filter cost us 64 pounds
00:55:04.219 --> 00:55:05.719
He's like, what? I was like, aye, we can only
00:55:05.719 --> 00:55:09.039
get them from fucking Vauxhall. I think they
00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:12.500
don't do them anywhere else. He goes, but that's
00:55:12.500 --> 00:55:14.239
only 64 quid, though. I was like, yeah, your
00:55:14.239 --> 00:55:18.639
oil was like 54 pound a litre from Vauxhall as
00:55:18.639 --> 00:55:20.639
well, because it's this engine that they only
00:55:20.639 --> 00:55:22.719
used, they only made it for like a year and a
00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:28.000
half. And they're just absolute fucking monstrosities,
00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:30.460
man. They've got loads of problems, everything's
00:55:30.460 --> 00:55:32.420
super expensive, and they're just a bit crap.
00:55:34.030 --> 00:55:38.070
Wow, yeah. So, yeah, bespoke engineering solutions
00:55:38.070 --> 00:55:40.469
aren't always the answer when you're dependent
00:55:40.469 --> 00:55:46.170
upon economies of scale. But yeah, so no, it's,
00:55:46.349 --> 00:55:50.309
yeah, we've done displacement. Now, for me anyway,
00:55:50.650 --> 00:55:53.289
and I think for you as well, we kind of get into
00:55:53.289 --> 00:56:00.369
the good stuff. And one of the questions is,
00:56:00.570 --> 00:56:03.920
it's all about power bands, you know? Yeah. I
00:56:03.920 --> 00:56:08.639
agree. Is it sweet sweet induction roar, choo
00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:11.460
choo unicorn noises or oh fuck the world's ending
00:56:11.460 --> 00:56:14.139
type of whining noises that you want? That's
00:56:14.139 --> 00:56:18.059
it. And the answer dictates what power band you
00:56:18.059 --> 00:56:23.739
get. Pretty much, yeah. I don't know if I can
00:56:23.739 --> 00:56:27.539
decide if I have a preference over any turbo
00:56:27.539 --> 00:56:30.719
or supercharged. I think I love all of them.
00:56:31.019 --> 00:56:35.070
Can I not just have them all? you can't have
00:56:35.070 --> 00:56:38.730
all of them but you can have two of them no I
00:56:38.730 --> 00:56:40.590
don't need them all in the same engine I can
00:56:40.590 --> 00:56:48.010
just one an engine of each please you know on
00:56:48.010 --> 00:56:52.110
reddit you've got shit tattoos the subreddit
00:56:53.599 --> 00:56:57.739
ship tattoos shit tattoos oh right okay no i
00:56:57.739 --> 00:57:00.000
didn't know about this but i can't believe it
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:02.659
no just what you said there brought me in mind
00:57:02.659 --> 00:57:06.300
of a a guy who had a honda engine tattooed on
00:57:06.300 --> 00:57:10.360
him right and it's got like the jackson racing
00:57:10.360 --> 00:57:15.219
supercharger inlet manifold on the exhaust side
00:57:15.219 --> 00:57:19.780
right right and then on the inlet side he's got
00:57:19.780 --> 00:57:22.780
like independent throttle bodies sticking up
00:57:23.070 --> 00:57:27.150
which are like the NA god mode induction, right?
00:57:27.570 --> 00:57:29.849
And then off to the side, he's got this exhaust
00:57:29.849 --> 00:57:31.590
pipe that just comes out of nowhere with a fucking
00:57:31.590 --> 00:57:33.710
turbo on it, and it's an engine with all three.
00:57:33.809 --> 00:57:37.429
It's NA, turbo, and supercharged. Everyone's
00:57:37.429 --> 00:57:41.010
just ripping this poor guy about his shit. Oh,
00:57:41.010 --> 00:57:45.670
man. How detailed was the diagram, essentially?
00:57:46.409 --> 00:57:49.090
No, it was like an image, mate. It was like someone
00:57:49.090 --> 00:57:52.309
had taken the photo of the top of a Honda engine.
00:57:52.809 --> 00:57:55.570
And then found all these photos online of engine
00:57:55.570 --> 00:57:57.849
parts and just fucking mashed them all together
00:57:57.849 --> 00:58:00.309
and went in and went, I want that on my back.
00:58:00.730 --> 00:58:03.789
God, that sounds rough. Oh, it's rough. It's
00:58:03.789 --> 00:58:07.349
horrible. But anyway, fucking Honda guys, what
00:58:07.349 --> 00:58:12.989
do you want to do about it? Fair. But yeah, it's
00:58:12.989 --> 00:58:18.590
all about power band here. So any typically razor
00:58:18.590 --> 00:58:22.289
sharp response, purists dream. You know, Porsche
00:58:22.289 --> 00:58:26.670
GT3. Then you've got the turbo. NA is all about...
00:58:26.670 --> 00:58:28.809
The NA power band typically gives you most of
00:58:28.809 --> 00:58:32.309
the power kind of towards the top end. Yeah.
00:58:32.409 --> 00:58:36.030
Well, a good one does. Because I've driven NA
00:58:36.030 --> 00:58:38.730
cars where the power band gives you power nowhere
00:58:38.730 --> 00:58:46.909
at all. But yeah, so NA is nice. I know we're
00:58:46.909 --> 00:58:50.380
not a massive fan of them, but like... MX -5s
00:58:50.380 --> 00:58:54.000
tend to have quite a peppy sort of NA attitude
00:58:54.000 --> 00:58:59.159
to them. They tend to be quite responsive. BMWs
00:58:59.159 --> 00:59:04.239
of old, like E46 M3, oofed. Yeah, like that sort
00:59:04.239 --> 00:59:08.400
of masterclass M3, masterclass NA engines, really.
00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:13.079
Honestly, like even that 125 ZTEC I had was happy,
00:59:13.119 --> 00:59:18.539
really happy enough to rev. it felt really responsive
00:59:18.539 --> 00:59:21.159
and quite peppy and it would like happily go
00:59:21.159 --> 00:59:23.800
up to seven thousand although that i did break
00:59:23.800 --> 00:59:26.159
that so maybe it didn't happily go up to seven
00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:31.500
thousand it did but not not willingly not regularly
00:59:31.500 --> 00:59:36.800
enough and then it became broken oh that poor
00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:39.539
car i just destroy stuff you are very much an
00:59:39.539 --> 00:59:43.119
end user yeah i'm hard on definitely hard on
00:59:43.119 --> 00:59:46.690
cars Nothing wrong with that though. I've broken
00:59:46.690 --> 00:59:50.389
quite a few in my day. I really, really wish
00:59:50.389 --> 00:59:54.030
I had somewhere I could put a sacrificial car
00:59:54.030 --> 01:00:00.409
almost. Like a car graveyard. I was transporting
01:00:00.409 --> 01:00:03.710
something impractical or I was going down a really,
01:00:03.750 --> 01:00:05.530
really crap road and I didn't have to worry about
01:00:05.530 --> 01:00:11.329
it. Fair enough. You know the plain graveyards
01:00:11.329 --> 01:00:14.869
in Nevada? Yeah. All the mothballed military
01:00:14.869 --> 01:00:17.369
jets are there. You're driving down the motorway,
01:00:17.429 --> 01:00:19.590
you just see the same thing off the M74. You're
01:00:19.590 --> 01:00:22.710
like, what the fuck is that? Oh, that's Thomas's
01:00:22.710 --> 01:00:26.730
car graveyard. Just where he leaves them when
01:00:26.730 --> 01:00:31.849
he's fucking broken them. Honestly, if I had
01:00:31.849 --> 01:00:34.530
the space, I'd never let a car go. I'd just put
01:00:34.530 --> 01:00:37.530
it in a corner, leave it for now, deal with it
01:00:37.530 --> 01:00:40.349
another time, and then move on. let it return
01:00:40.349 --> 01:00:43.309
to the earth yeah i totally understand those
01:00:43.309 --> 01:00:45.690
people that have like a massive farm filled with
01:00:45.690 --> 01:00:48.630
just like cars that are you know have trees growing
01:00:48.630 --> 01:00:50.170
through them like and people are like how did
01:00:50.170 --> 01:00:51.969
you let this happen it's like nah i totally get
01:00:51.969 --> 01:00:58.050
how that happened yeah it's cool like although
01:00:58.050 --> 01:01:00.349
those people do my fucking head in because I
01:01:00.349 --> 01:01:02.110
quite often try to buy their cars and they're
01:01:02.110 --> 01:01:04.050
always like oh no I'm gonna fix it I'm gonna
01:01:04.050 --> 01:01:06.210
be like what you didn't fix it in the past decades
01:01:06.210 --> 01:01:07.949
you're not gonna fix it in the next one are you
01:01:07.949 --> 01:01:10.809
it's just mental health problems man it's just
01:01:10.809 --> 01:01:14.349
like people people need to not like people can't
01:01:14.349 --> 01:01:16.889
let go sometimes and they need to learn to let
01:01:16.889 --> 01:01:23.449
go yeah yeah they do absolutely so back to turbos
01:01:24.030 --> 01:01:28.130
Yeah, I've got some opinions on these. So, I
01:01:28.130 --> 01:01:31.730
like a nice NA engine, right? And I'm quite fond
01:01:31.730 --> 01:01:34.269
of a supercharger, although it's quite rare that
01:01:34.269 --> 01:01:35.929
I would end up driving one, because they tend
01:01:35.929 --> 01:01:39.889
to be quite rare in the OEM world. They are really
01:01:39.889 --> 01:01:41.670
rare, yeah. I've never had the opportunity to
01:01:41.670 --> 01:01:43.710
drive a supercharged car. Do you know the best
01:01:43.710 --> 01:01:47.630
one I drove was a Corolla T -Sport. This is a
01:01:47.630 --> 01:01:50.489
supercharged Corolla? Yeah, it was a two -litre.
01:01:51.710 --> 01:01:55.949
VVT -LI engine with a supercharger on it. It
01:01:55.949 --> 01:01:59.530
was supposed to compete with the Type R and in
01:01:59.530 --> 01:02:02.190
my mind it's superior in every fucking way to
01:02:02.190 --> 01:02:05.929
the Type R. What supercharger was it? It was
01:02:05.929 --> 01:02:09.889
a Roots. No, it was a Neaton, I'm sure. Positive
01:02:09.889 --> 01:02:13.289
displacement supercharger. Oh, cool. And it sounded
01:02:13.289 --> 01:02:17.349
incredible. Yeah, that's pretty cool. I did not
01:02:17.349 --> 01:02:20.590
know about that. The issue I've got with them
01:02:20.590 --> 01:02:24.679
is that they cost you power they make power but
01:02:24.679 --> 01:02:28.340
they cost power in order to make it right so
01:02:28.340 --> 01:02:30.880
like when you get to like your big big superchargers
01:02:30.880 --> 01:02:32.880
like some of the big yank tank stuff like some
01:02:32.880 --> 01:02:35.420
of them are taking upwards of 100 200 brake horsepower
01:02:35.420 --> 01:02:38.519
to just to turn the supercharger which is ridiculous
01:02:38.519 --> 01:02:41.440
but i do get the argument for them especially
01:02:41.440 --> 01:02:43.579
like the centrifugal ones which are just like
01:02:43.579 --> 01:02:46.059
a magnifying glass that goes on your power band
01:02:46.059 --> 01:02:48.539
and it just makes it more of everything everywhere
01:02:48.539 --> 01:02:52.940
um So they retain the sort of power delivery
01:02:52.940 --> 01:02:56.320
of an NA engine, almost, but they build boost
01:02:56.320 --> 01:03:00.519
linear in relation to RPM. Yeah, totally. I mean,
01:03:00.599 --> 01:03:02.719
I do see where you're coming from, where they
01:03:02.719 --> 01:03:07.940
leech power from the engine, but I don't know
01:03:07.940 --> 01:03:12.099
if that ultimate insane efficiency of getting
01:03:12.099 --> 01:03:14.760
the most out of it is something that I necessarily
01:03:14.760 --> 01:03:18.340
care about more than kind of making it cool and
01:03:18.340 --> 01:03:20.989
making it sound good. Yeah, it's fair, though.
01:03:21.090 --> 01:03:24.210
Like, they definitely have their place. But for
01:03:24.210 --> 01:03:27.869
me, I want a whacking great dirty turbo hanging
01:03:27.869 --> 01:03:30.289
off the side of the fucking engine. That's what
01:03:30.289 --> 01:03:34.309
I want. It's a good thing that you like turbos
01:03:34.309 --> 01:03:36.909
because they are absolutely everywhere. Like,
01:03:36.909 --> 01:03:40.170
turbos are, they won. They came in and they just
01:03:40.170 --> 01:03:42.670
conquered. Yeah, well, I mean, the thing is,
01:03:42.829 --> 01:03:45.690
like, you've got all this exhaust gas that's
01:03:45.690 --> 01:03:48.530
going just into the air. And more importantly,
01:03:48.550 --> 01:03:51.059
you've got heat. because heat spools a turbo
01:03:51.059 --> 01:03:55.199
as well. Hot exhaust gas is good, but cold exhaust
01:03:55.199 --> 01:03:57.420
gas is good as well. If you have a rear -mounted
01:03:57.420 --> 01:04:00.460
setup, everyone's like, oh, rear -mounted turbos
01:04:00.460 --> 01:04:02.139
don't actually spool that well because they're
01:04:02.139 --> 01:04:04.280
miles away from the fucking exhaust manifold.
01:04:04.679 --> 01:04:07.639
Technically, you're right, but the gas is a lot
01:04:07.639 --> 01:04:11.599
colder, so there's more mass in the gas. If the
01:04:11.599 --> 01:04:14.780
gas is cooled off, you've physically got more
01:04:14.780 --> 01:04:19.159
mass going through it to drive the turbine. oh
01:04:19.159 --> 01:04:21.039
like you're saying as the gas cools it's kind
01:04:21.039 --> 01:04:25.519
of like the um area density is probably is increasing
01:04:25.519 --> 01:04:29.400
yeah because like people who have actually driven
01:04:29.400 --> 01:04:32.059
rear mounted turbo setups i haven't but people
01:04:32.059 --> 01:04:34.320
who have actually driven them report that there's
01:04:34.320 --> 01:04:37.000
not all that much more lag like so it's like
01:04:37.000 --> 01:04:39.800
again it's on the internet and you're gonna have
01:04:39.800 --> 01:04:42.119
lots of armchair experts arguing about it and
01:04:42.119 --> 01:04:44.440
it's like fucking what go and do it and then
01:04:44.440 --> 01:04:48.860
tell me about it but turbos are class I love
01:04:48.860 --> 01:04:52.920
me some choo -choo unicorn noises. I'm all about
01:04:52.920 --> 01:04:57.219
it. Yeah, I mean, I do like turbos as well. They're
01:04:57.219 --> 01:05:01.719
great. They're absolutely fantastic. It's kind
01:05:01.719 --> 01:05:05.960
of the minimum you want on any kind of car. Yeah.
01:05:07.440 --> 01:05:10.920
And the thing is as well, people say turbo lag,
01:05:11.059 --> 01:05:12.739
but it's not really an issue now because you've
01:05:12.739 --> 01:05:15.820
got variable geometry turbos, which actually
01:05:15.820 --> 01:05:20.489
alter the vane. configuration to spool up quicker
01:05:20.489 --> 01:05:24.789
oh i see okay yeah totally you've got twin scroll
01:05:24.789 --> 01:05:28.230
turbos which typically take advantage of which
01:05:28.230 --> 01:05:31.889
of exhaust gas pulses so you would split the
01:05:31.889 --> 01:05:35.070
ar of your turbine in half essentially and then
01:05:35.070 --> 01:05:38.130
you would run it um so you would have pulses
01:05:38.130 --> 01:05:41.429
from exhaust and it takes advantage of pulse
01:05:41.429 --> 01:05:44.230
tuning in the same way that na does for scavenging
01:05:44.230 --> 01:05:47.420
basically but to use it to spool a turbo And
01:05:47.420 --> 01:05:51.460
it works pretty well. And then you had some trickery
01:05:51.460 --> 01:05:54.840
and shit that was like, you used to get vacuum
01:05:54.840 --> 01:05:58.099
plates that would go between your manifold and
01:05:58.099 --> 01:06:01.960
your turbo. So you'd use a twin -scroll turbo
01:06:01.960 --> 01:06:05.420
on a normal manifold, but you would be able to
01:06:05.420 --> 01:06:09.320
shut half the turbo off, which would drop the
01:06:09.320 --> 01:06:13.940
AR size by half. So you would spool up quicker,
01:06:14.079 --> 01:06:15.380
and then you'd open it up, and you'd be like,
01:06:15.400 --> 01:06:17.670
oh my god, suddenly there's more. ar and you
01:06:17.670 --> 01:06:21.010
can take more exhaust gas you would still have
01:06:21.010 --> 01:06:23.650
a really high power output but really quick spool
01:06:23.650 --> 01:06:28.929
um and then modern cars are taking advantage
01:06:28.929 --> 01:06:32.809
of a lot of that um and especially variable vane
01:06:32.809 --> 01:06:35.250
and twin scroll turbos like and a properly set
01:06:35.250 --> 01:06:38.130
up twin scroll turbo should have next to no lag
01:06:38.130 --> 01:06:40.949
and give you power all the way through your red
01:06:40.949 --> 01:06:46.960
line and just be an absolute weapon um it's it's
01:06:46.960 --> 01:06:49.820
having two turbos like a smaller and a bigger
01:06:49.820 --> 01:06:53.360
one that's not so common no that would be like
01:06:53.360 --> 01:06:56.099
sequential turboing yes sequential turbos that's
01:06:56.099 --> 01:06:59.000
it and typically you can achieve the same with
01:06:59.000 --> 01:07:02.099
a twin scroll turbo now like it's just not needed
01:07:02.099 --> 01:07:05.480
um yeah it's just another point of failure really
01:07:05.480 --> 01:07:09.900
isn't it it is um again because we're keeping
01:07:09.900 --> 01:07:13.019
this quite light i think that's enough there
01:07:13.019 --> 01:07:19.000
really because next fueling so on any any engine
01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:22.139
right i would have to if i was building one i'd
01:07:22.139 --> 01:07:26.260
have to have a long long hard think about putting
01:07:26.260 --> 01:07:30.219
carbs or fuel injection on it and i know that
01:07:30.219 --> 01:07:33.380
it's an ancient technology and it's and there's
01:07:33.380 --> 01:07:35.420
more upkeep and everything but the sound is just
01:07:35.420 --> 01:07:41.460
incredible honestly I think that is genuinely
01:07:41.460 --> 01:07:44.280
a valid reason for making a choice of a car like
01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:46.619
someone's a big part of it yeah like that that
01:07:46.619 --> 01:07:52.820
ambience is just like whoa yes please um yeah
01:07:52.820 --> 01:07:56.300
I mean again it's a dead technology there's not
01:07:56.300 --> 01:07:59.179
really all that many I don't think there's any
01:07:59.179 --> 01:08:03.409
cars being made currently that have carbs I'll
01:08:03.409 --> 01:08:05.050
go out on a limb and say it. I don't actually
01:08:05.050 --> 01:08:07.150
think there is. Yeah, I'd probably agree with
01:08:07.150 --> 01:08:08.989
that. But they did last for a bit longer than
01:08:08.989 --> 01:08:10.909
you'd kind of think. Like, there was still low
01:08:10.909 --> 01:08:13.309
-end cars that were, you know, running carbs.
01:08:13.949 --> 01:08:16.750
Oh, yeah. I mean, like, there's nothing wrong
01:08:16.750 --> 01:08:20.069
with a good carb, either. Like, they work, and
01:08:20.069 --> 01:08:22.489
they do the job they're meant to do fucking well,
01:08:22.630 --> 01:08:27.710
you know? So, yeah. I mean, I don't really want
01:08:27.710 --> 01:08:31.109
to get into how carbs work, to be fair. No, I
01:08:31.109 --> 01:08:35.880
don't think it matters. No. Now you have electronic
01:08:35.880 --> 01:08:38.520
fuel injection and all the cool tricks that that
01:08:38.520 --> 01:08:43.619
kind of brings. Squirty hoses. Sorry? Squirty
01:08:43.619 --> 01:08:46.600
hoses. Squirty hoses. But there was a really,
01:08:46.640 --> 01:08:51.180
really cool and misunderstood sort of problem
01:08:51.180 --> 01:08:55.560
child in between the two, which was mechanical
01:08:55.560 --> 01:09:02.380
fuel injection. xr3is for example had this how
01:09:02.380 --> 01:09:05.140
did how did the mechanical what mechanical action
01:09:05.140 --> 01:09:08.600
injected the fuel because like you want quite
01:09:08.600 --> 01:09:12.079
like a nice misty kind of spray yeah so they
01:09:12.079 --> 01:09:16.819
still had an air quotes injector per se it's
01:09:16.819 --> 01:09:19.000
just it was all mechanical there was no electronics
01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:23.199
firing it at all so like what you see like it
01:09:23.199 --> 01:09:26.460
was more common in diesels like diesels still
01:09:26.920 --> 01:09:29.000
Not now, they're all common rail injection. You
01:09:29.000 --> 01:09:32.560
will still get some plant and heavy equipment
01:09:32.560 --> 01:09:34.819
as mechanical injection, but like a mechanical
01:09:34.819 --> 01:09:37.720
injection on a diesel essentially works like
01:09:37.720 --> 01:09:42.199
the pump would send, you would get the pump sending
01:09:42.199 --> 01:09:45.840
high pressure fuel to that mechanical injector
01:09:45.840 --> 01:09:48.720
and it would overcome a valve in the injector,
01:09:48.800 --> 01:09:50.899
fire through, and then it would hit the injection
01:09:50.899 --> 01:09:53.279
nozzle and spray out and give you your fan of
01:09:53.279 --> 01:09:58.619
fuel spray. Right. again like i don't think there's
01:09:58.619 --> 01:10:00.859
anybody on the planet that's going to be taking
01:10:00.859 --> 01:10:05.380
EFI off and putting mechanical on because it
01:10:05.380 --> 01:10:07.739
doesn't have the noise of carbs or anything like
01:10:07.739 --> 01:10:11.479
that it basically works like EFI but needs more
01:10:11.479 --> 01:10:16.500
upkeep essentially um but i mean the era of electronic
01:10:16.500 --> 01:10:20.079
fuel injection is like now we can have like flex
01:10:20.079 --> 01:10:22.680
fueling where you can put ethanol in. You can
01:10:22.680 --> 01:10:24.819
have a sensor that detects the ethanol content
01:10:24.819 --> 01:10:27.000
and automatically varies your timing and boost
01:10:27.000 --> 01:10:29.560
and all that stuff, which is cool. You can have
01:10:29.560 --> 01:10:35.020
stuff like flat -foot shifting, two -step limiters,
01:10:35.159 --> 01:10:39.100
launch control. A lot of this was all sort of
01:10:39.100 --> 01:10:42.539
hand -in -hand with electronic fuel injection
01:10:42.539 --> 01:10:46.560
and ECU sophistication, which they're one and
01:10:46.560 --> 01:10:48.760
the same for me if we're discussing it like this,
01:10:48.840 --> 01:10:53.029
really. They do a lot of cool stuff. They allow
01:10:53.029 --> 01:10:55.310
a lot of cool stuff to happen, especially now,
01:10:55.449 --> 01:10:58.489
where a lot of stuff can be remapped on its original
01:10:58.489 --> 01:11:01.069
ECU. You can reflash it, so you don't have to
01:11:01.069 --> 01:11:04.510
spend £1 ,200 on a fucking link or something
01:11:04.510 --> 01:11:07.750
like that in order to remap it, which is really
01:11:07.750 --> 01:11:11.470
nice. Absolutely, yeah. But for a driver's car,
01:11:11.710 --> 01:11:15.409
I'm not convinced all the cool tricks that you
01:11:15.409 --> 01:11:19.399
can do with EFI is really needed. really all
01:11:19.399 --> 01:11:22.079
you want is to deliver fuel in the most efficient
01:11:22.079 --> 01:11:25.760
manager man manner possible and that's it as
01:11:25.760 --> 01:11:28.560
far as i'm concerned for a driver's car um so
01:11:28.560 --> 01:11:31.420
yeah i mean i couldn't i can understand it giving
01:11:31.420 --> 01:11:33.579
you that control over how much fuel you're giving
01:11:33.579 --> 01:11:35.800
the motor at different parts of its you know
01:11:35.800 --> 01:11:42.979
power um band yeah but you know yeah i kind of
01:11:42.979 --> 01:11:47.960
broadly agree it's it's like extras yes and extras
01:11:47.960 --> 01:11:51.600
in the most part tend to take away from the the
01:11:51.600 --> 01:11:56.060
feel of the car um is there anything you want
01:11:56.060 --> 01:11:58.100
to ask about because that's me kind of at the
01:11:58.100 --> 01:12:01.260
end of where i where i want to go with the the
01:12:01.260 --> 01:12:04.140
engine talking about because i don't want to
01:12:04.140 --> 01:12:06.119
get too deep into it like i said this isn't meant
01:12:06.119 --> 01:12:11.090
to be like i know you lecture yeah yeah um i
01:12:11.090 --> 01:12:12.729
don't really want to ask too many super specific
01:12:12.729 --> 01:12:15.069
questions just in case it like to turn it back
01:12:15.069 --> 01:12:18.449
into one um but no that was that was really really
01:12:18.449 --> 01:12:19.890
interesting that was i thought it was a great
01:12:19.890 --> 01:12:23.470
overview of motors and stuff in general um like
01:12:23.470 --> 01:12:27.489
i think there was there's maybe some stuff that
01:12:27.489 --> 01:12:30.029
like i don't think we covered that i've always
01:12:30.029 --> 01:12:32.189
kind of been faintly interested in knowing which
01:12:32.189 --> 01:12:36.170
is like you know um what what's is porting where
01:12:36.170 --> 01:12:39.569
they like change the shape and size of like the
01:12:39.569 --> 01:12:44.989
inlet and exhaust kind of um holes in the block
01:12:44.989 --> 01:12:48.670
yeah so if you're porting basically what you're
01:12:48.670 --> 01:12:51.510
doing is like you're you're making that you're
01:12:51.510 --> 01:12:55.430
enlarging the port size to flow more air fuel
01:12:55.430 --> 01:12:59.810
ratio in and generally you want to be making
01:12:59.810 --> 01:13:03.550
everything as smooth as possible this is general
01:13:03.550 --> 01:13:08.069
because what actually helps on the inlet side
01:13:08.069 --> 01:13:11.750
for example is to keep the surface rough and
01:13:11.750 --> 01:13:14.050
there was a bit of a trend years ago of making
01:13:14.050 --> 01:13:16.130
it like the surface of a golf ball putting little
01:13:16.130 --> 01:13:19.729
indents in it right yeah and the idea was that
01:13:19.729 --> 01:13:23.159
they would trap that would trap air and have
01:13:23.159 --> 01:13:25.420
it traveling slower and then you would get like
01:13:25.420 --> 01:13:28.560
a boundary level of air on the outside walls
01:13:28.560 --> 01:13:32.100
and then the air in the center would be flying
01:13:32.100 --> 01:13:34.760
through quicker which would create turbulence
01:13:34.760 --> 01:13:37.560
which would mix the air fuel ratio better mix
01:13:37.560 --> 01:13:40.779
the air fuel mixture better sorry right okay
01:13:40.779 --> 01:13:44.000
so basically deliberately generating kind of
01:13:44.000 --> 01:13:47.619
a turbulent airflow yeah but generally reporting
01:13:48.460 --> 01:13:52.119
you're looking to enlarge as reasonably big as
01:13:52.119 --> 01:13:56.539
you can go. But you're also, you're limited by
01:13:56.539 --> 01:13:58.680
like how much you can take out before you start
01:13:58.680 --> 01:14:01.119
breaking into water jackets and before you start
01:14:01.119 --> 01:14:04.899
basically having structural issues in the head.
01:14:05.159 --> 01:14:09.979
That makes sense, yeah. Taking material off in
01:14:09.979 --> 01:14:12.539
the combustion chamber as well. So you want the
01:14:12.539 --> 01:14:14.859
combustion chamber to be as smooth as possible
01:14:14.859 --> 01:14:17.880
because if you have a high point, that can create
01:14:17.880 --> 01:14:20.979
a hot spot because you've got less material in
01:14:20.979 --> 01:14:25.960
the actual buildup of the high point. And because
01:14:25.960 --> 01:14:27.720
you've got less material, it's got less of a
01:14:27.720 --> 01:14:29.960
heat sink ability, so it can run hotter at the
01:14:29.960 --> 01:14:33.779
tip, which can cause pre -detonation, which is
01:14:33.779 --> 01:14:39.359
where you have an ignition event before the piston
01:14:39.359 --> 01:14:43.000
is over top dead center. So the piston is still
01:14:43.000 --> 01:14:45.680
coming up and you've got the explosion box happening
01:14:45.680 --> 01:14:49.420
and it's like, normally manifests itself as a
01:14:49.420 --> 01:14:53.399
pinking noise like tink tink tink tink um which
01:14:53.399 --> 01:14:55.119
is why whenever you're getting a remap you see
01:14:55.119 --> 01:14:57.439
them having big earmuffs on usually they are
01:14:57.439 --> 01:15:00.439
hooked up to microphones on the on the engine
01:15:00.439 --> 01:15:04.420
and they're listening for knock or pinking that's
01:15:04.420 --> 01:15:07.779
really interesting it's mad so when you get really
01:15:07.779 --> 01:15:09.960
when you get into it man it's so interesting
01:15:09.960 --> 01:15:13.979
like there's so much cool shit which is it's
01:15:13.979 --> 01:15:17.020
really hard to skim over Absolutely. Yeah, I
01:15:17.020 --> 01:15:19.539
understand. When you skim over it, you kind of
01:15:19.539 --> 01:15:23.500
miss lots of the meat. But in order to get like
01:15:23.500 --> 01:15:27.159
a nice overview of what we want to look for,
01:15:27.260 --> 01:15:30.039
we don't really need to go to that level, which
01:15:30.039 --> 01:15:33.699
is handy. Yeah. I mean, one of my other questions
01:15:33.699 --> 01:15:39.979
would be talking about cams and what something
01:15:39.979 --> 01:15:43.890
like more aggressive cams means. Does that mean
01:15:43.890 --> 01:15:47.130
that that's like more lift to let in more? Oh
01:15:47.130 --> 01:15:49.369
no, for longer, is that? No, because there's
01:15:49.369 --> 01:15:52.050
difference because you can increase the time
01:15:52.050 --> 01:15:54.250
that the valves are open from the cam and you
01:15:54.250 --> 01:15:58.369
can also increase the amount they're open. So
01:15:58.369 --> 01:16:00.750
generally you're going to look at increasing
01:16:00.750 --> 01:16:03.470
duration, which is the amount of time the valve's
01:16:03.470 --> 01:16:05.930
open for. And you're going to look at increasing
01:16:05.930 --> 01:16:09.949
lift, which is the amount of, well. it's how
01:16:09.949 --> 01:16:12.949
open the valve is so it's it's the valve sits
01:16:12.949 --> 01:16:17.449
further open with more lift yeah this is absolutely
01:16:17.449 --> 01:16:19.130
why i'm glad you're here because that was really
01:16:19.130 --> 01:16:21.810
really well explained that's exactly what i meant
01:16:21.810 --> 01:16:24.869
yeah there's not like a hard and fast rule for
01:16:24.869 --> 01:16:26.949
it though because like in any engine a turbo
01:16:26.949 --> 01:16:28.670
engine a supercharged engine are all going to
01:16:28.670 --> 01:16:33.050
have totally different cam specs and there's
01:16:33.050 --> 01:16:35.350
a lot that comes into it especially with any
01:16:35.930 --> 01:16:38.409
So like you want to take advantage of scavenging,
01:16:38.449 --> 01:16:41.689
which is when you have the air's always rushing
01:16:41.689 --> 01:16:44.350
in because it's always being drawn in. But when
01:16:44.350 --> 01:16:47.449
it hits the back of a shut valve, you get a pressure
01:16:47.449 --> 01:16:49.189
wave that travels in the opposite direction.
01:16:49.430 --> 01:16:51.909
And then that pressure wave interacts with pressure
01:16:51.909 --> 01:16:54.270
waves that are coming back the way. And it can
01:16:54.270 --> 01:16:57.130
also interact with pressure. We like the construction
01:16:57.130 --> 01:17:00.750
and the material, the construction, the material,
01:17:00.850 --> 01:17:02.970
the layout and everything of your inlet set up.
01:17:03.609 --> 01:17:05.289
and you get all these different pressure waves
01:17:05.289 --> 01:17:07.090
and what you're wanting to do is you're wanting
01:17:07.090 --> 01:17:10.529
to have the pressure wave going towards the the
01:17:10.529 --> 01:17:14.329
the valve as it's starting to open because then
01:17:14.329 --> 01:17:17.170
you get a rush of higher velocity air essentially
01:17:17.170 --> 01:17:20.770
yeah okay i totally understand that like rebounding
01:17:20.770 --> 01:17:23.569
in the right way so you're forcing air into the
01:17:23.569 --> 01:17:26.869
valves when they're into the um combustion chamber
01:17:26.869 --> 01:17:29.289
when the valves are open yes and then you want
01:17:29.289 --> 01:17:32.119
the opposite when it's exhausting so You want
01:17:32.119 --> 01:17:34.439
to try and get a pulse coming back towards the
01:17:34.439 --> 01:17:38.199
exhaust to hit the exhaust valve just before
01:17:38.199 --> 01:17:41.659
it opens so that it is then travelling out of
01:17:41.659 --> 01:17:44.840
the exhaust port as the exhaust valve is opening
01:17:44.840 --> 01:17:48.159
so it pulls the material out of the cylinder.
01:17:49.300 --> 01:17:51.260
That's really cool. That is really, really cool.
01:17:51.340 --> 01:17:54.579
Very interesting. It is. It's cool, man. Engines
01:17:54.579 --> 01:17:56.779
are fucking class. Yeah, I really like them.
01:17:56.880 --> 01:18:00.159
I think they're so cool. I love the explosion
01:18:00.159 --> 01:18:03.779
box. With that in mind, what we've talked about,
01:18:03.979 --> 01:18:06.279
do you think there's any generalizations that
01:18:06.279 --> 01:18:09.140
we can apply to, like, what would be a typically
01:18:09.140 --> 01:18:13.439
well -regarded driver's engine? Like, the S54
01:18:13.439 --> 01:18:17.640
and the E46 M3, for example. Is that the 4 -litre
01:18:17.640 --> 01:18:22.560
V8? That is the 3 .2 straight -six. Oh, right.
01:18:22.859 --> 01:18:26.420
Okay, yeah. The god -mode one that everybody
01:18:26.420 --> 01:18:28.979
wants. I mean, that's, like, does that not rev
01:18:28.979 --> 01:18:32.699
to, like, 9 ,000? It does. It's high. If it's
01:18:32.699 --> 01:18:37.180
not 9, it's like 8 .5 or 7 .9. Unusually high.
01:18:37.340 --> 01:18:40.619
That's a cool engine. I really like that. I bet
01:18:40.619 --> 01:18:46.100
that feels lively. Sounds great. Picking that
01:18:46.100 --> 01:18:49.819
as an example, we know it's NA. Six cylinder,
01:18:50.060 --> 01:18:55.560
straight six. Really good balance. 3 .2, which
01:18:55.560 --> 01:18:57.899
is right in the sweet spot as far as I'm concerned
01:18:57.899 --> 01:19:03.329
for displacement. an over square design and then
01:19:03.329 --> 01:19:06.369
for like your induction side it's like it's na
01:19:06.369 --> 01:19:09.050
running through independent throttle bodies which
01:19:09.050 --> 01:19:13.210
is like it's just it's like it that's like a
01:19:13.210 --> 01:19:16.710
recipe for greatness that bmw just keeps using
01:19:16.710 --> 01:19:20.170
over and over again Yeah, I think there's a reason
01:19:20.170 --> 01:19:21.770
why they've kind of stuck around with it for
01:19:21.770 --> 01:19:23.930
so long, even though other manufacturers, you
01:19:23.930 --> 01:19:26.329
know, have kind of just gradually tended towards
01:19:26.329 --> 01:19:29.510
the, well, it was before it was the four -cylinder
01:19:29.510 --> 01:19:32.729
kind of 1 .8, two -litre -ish kind of range,
01:19:32.770 --> 01:19:34.989
but now it's more like three -cylinder one -litres
01:19:34.989 --> 01:19:38.630
or like, you know, 1 .5, four -litre, four -cylinders.
01:19:39.590 --> 01:19:42.609
Yeah, it's actually interesting as well, because
01:19:42.609 --> 01:19:47.189
BMW... There was an interview with a BMW engine
01:19:47.189 --> 01:19:50.390
designer I read years ago, and one of the takeaways
01:19:50.390 --> 01:19:54.090
from it was that BMW maintained that the ideal
01:19:54.090 --> 01:20:02.229
size for a cylinder is between 250 and 600 cc,
01:20:02.369 --> 01:20:06.590
or 550 cc, which is why you typically tend to
01:20:06.590 --> 01:20:11.170
see all their straight sixes are about 3 litres,
01:20:11.409 --> 01:20:17.260
or 2 .5. All their engines are always these similar
01:20:17.260 --> 01:20:19.520
denominations of displacement, and it's because
01:20:19.520 --> 01:20:22.079
that's part of their design philosophy, is that
01:20:22.079 --> 01:20:25.279
there's an ideal cylinder size, which is quite
01:20:25.279 --> 01:20:28.979
interesting. It is, absolutely. Do you remember
01:20:28.979 --> 01:20:34.199
the Mazda MX -3 that had the tiny, I think it
01:20:34.199 --> 01:20:38.920
was like a 1 .3 V6? I think it was a 1 .8. A
01:20:38.920 --> 01:20:44.779
1 .3, or maybe a 1 .8 litre V6. Yes, I do. Truly
01:20:44.779 --> 01:20:50.619
tiny, tiny cylinders. But fantastic. Quite cool,
01:20:50.699 --> 01:20:55.500
yeah. Quite cool little thing. So do you think
01:20:55.500 --> 01:20:59.880
the character of an engine, like what we've spoken
01:20:59.880 --> 01:21:02.420
about, do you think any of it's integral to the
01:21:02.420 --> 01:21:05.920
character of an engine? That's a good question.
01:21:06.060 --> 01:21:10.119
I suppose the design of the engine would influence
01:21:10.119 --> 01:21:14.100
its character, you know. If it's like, you know,
01:21:14.100 --> 01:21:17.420
like quite a highly strung inline three engine,
01:21:17.619 --> 01:21:21.180
it's not going to feel like kind of like lazy
01:21:21.180 --> 01:21:24.300
and kind of like, you know, it's not going to
01:21:24.300 --> 01:21:26.760
feel like that. It's going to feel like loud
01:21:26.760 --> 01:21:31.140
and kind of like frantic and hopefully powerful.
01:21:31.699 --> 01:21:36.300
Yeah. Like certainly like, I think some of the
01:21:36.300 --> 01:21:39.359
more manic engines that I've driven, they all
01:21:39.359 --> 01:21:42.800
tend to be. like very powerful for the displacement
01:21:42.800 --> 01:21:46.819
and they've got an appetite for revs and stuff
01:21:46.819 --> 01:21:49.579
like that like when the turbo comes on song it's
01:21:49.579 --> 01:21:53.859
just like go go go yeah there's a little chill
01:21:53.859 --> 01:22:00.380
but yeah I think that I think they can define
01:22:00.380 --> 01:22:03.439
the character of an engine but I think it's much
01:22:03.439 --> 01:22:06.520
like what we came up like the conclusion we came
01:22:06.520 --> 01:22:09.579
up with the chassis I think it's hard to design
01:22:09.579 --> 01:22:13.319
an engine to have character though yeah yeah
01:22:13.319 --> 01:22:16.619
like the i suppose you can make conscious decisions
01:22:16.619 --> 01:22:19.319
to give it like aspects of character but like
01:22:19.319 --> 01:22:22.220
it's that's more it's more how the user interacts
01:22:22.220 --> 01:22:25.720
with it that defines its character yeah definitely
01:22:25.720 --> 01:22:28.619
because like based on everything we've kind of
01:22:28.619 --> 01:22:32.699
said like the most the engines with the best
01:22:32.699 --> 01:22:35.119
character should be motorsport engines they tend
01:22:35.119 --> 01:22:40.010
to just be very um Like, very utilitarian. Like,
01:22:40.029 --> 01:22:43.010
when you hear them, it's not like they're particularly
01:22:43.010 --> 01:22:45.569
anything special about them. It's just an engine.
01:22:45.829 --> 01:22:48.149
A very, very powerful and highly specced engine.
01:22:48.350 --> 01:22:51.029
But, like, really, like, the most... Like, you
01:22:51.029 --> 01:22:52.989
would think, like, motorsport engines are full
01:22:52.989 --> 01:22:55.649
of character. But, like, I don't really think
01:22:55.649 --> 01:22:57.590
they are. I think they're a bit utilitarian.
01:22:57.989 --> 01:23:00.630
Like, the sound of, like, Formula 1 engines,
01:23:00.729 --> 01:23:02.850
that's obviously unbelievable. But when you get
01:23:02.850 --> 01:23:04.949
to, like, touring cars, they never really sound
01:23:04.949 --> 01:23:09.170
particularly... Yeah, they're... Yeah. I can
01:23:09.170 --> 01:23:10.829
see what you mean, yeah. I can totally see what
01:23:10.829 --> 01:23:12.689
you mean on that. So I think you're really, you're
01:23:12.689 --> 01:23:17.210
into, like, a road car engine for really characterful
01:23:17.210 --> 01:23:19.850
operation. Yeah, I mean, you've got more chance
01:23:19.850 --> 01:23:23.289
of interacting with it, experiencing it. Like,
01:23:23.289 --> 01:23:25.930
some engines, you know, some engines do want
01:23:25.930 --> 01:23:28.149
to kind of rev, you know, and that gives them,
01:23:28.170 --> 01:23:31.149
like, give them a more playful or, like, scary
01:23:31.149 --> 01:23:35.489
vibe. Yeah, that's actually, I think, like, scary
01:23:35.489 --> 01:23:39.140
engines do exist. When you jump in a car and
01:23:39.140 --> 01:23:41.880
it's egging you on faster and faster all the
01:23:41.880 --> 01:23:44.960
time, an engine has a lot to play with there.
01:23:45.220 --> 01:23:51.180
A good engine doing that can lead to some carnage.
01:23:53.100 --> 01:23:55.619
Absolutely. Although I would say it's preferable
01:23:55.619 --> 01:24:00.000
to me than an engine where you give it everything
01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:02.659
and it just doesn't seem to be that interested
01:24:02.659 --> 01:24:06.569
in the business of moving. It's just... You know,
01:24:06.630 --> 01:24:08.529
ones where you put your foot down and it's almost
01:24:08.529 --> 01:24:10.029
like nothing's happening. It doesn't get any
01:24:10.029 --> 01:24:12.350
louder and it doesn't get any faster. Ones where
01:24:12.350 --> 01:24:14.189
you put your foot down and it gets louder, but
01:24:14.189 --> 01:24:17.869
not necessarily faster. Yeah. Or cars that accelerate,
01:24:18.050 --> 01:24:20.989
but accelerate so steadily and so slowly that
01:24:20.989 --> 01:24:24.930
there's no actual feel of acceleration. Yeah.
01:24:25.670 --> 01:24:31.210
Like the Renault Captur, for example. Yeah, I'm
01:24:31.210 --> 01:24:34.640
sure it could get up to... a decent motorway
01:24:34.640 --> 01:24:37.420
speed, but it just takes a really long time to
01:24:37.420 --> 01:24:40.739
get there and doesn't feel very fast. Yeah, that's
01:24:40.739 --> 01:24:45.319
it. You need to have that push. It needs to want
01:24:45.319 --> 01:24:49.920
to go. And see, that's the thing with diesels,
01:24:49.920 --> 01:24:52.899
right? Diesels can really give you that initial
01:24:52.899 --> 01:24:56.899
shove, but the problem is they just kind of run
01:24:56.899 --> 01:25:00.300
out of grunt. Yeah. It's like they start off
01:25:00.300 --> 01:25:04.829
strong. Yeah. and in a lot of ways diesels are
01:25:04.829 --> 01:25:09.010
a bit like professional boxers okay right i'm
01:25:09.010 --> 01:25:13.210
gonna try this yeah so you know like you've got
01:25:13.210 --> 01:25:16.529
like david hay going into fight klitschko for
01:25:16.529 --> 01:25:18.670
example this was years ago i would have been
01:25:18.670 --> 01:25:21.909
like 19 in this fight that i'm on about honestly
01:25:21.909 --> 01:25:24.710
man you you could just be naming anything like
01:25:24.710 --> 01:25:28.930
i have no idea about boxing at all fair enough
01:25:28.930 --> 01:25:32.149
well like what happened right david haye was
01:25:32.149 --> 01:25:36.949
doing the big i am talking a load of right right
01:25:36.949 --> 01:25:39.489
and he's like this fight's going to be as one
01:25:39.489 --> 01:25:43.489
-sided as a gang rape and all this right that's
01:25:43.489 --> 01:25:46.329
that's a genuine quote by the way david he actually
01:25:46.329 --> 01:25:50.489
said that that's so bad and then he went into
01:25:50.489 --> 01:25:53.729
the fight and was fanning about like a big pansy
01:25:53.729 --> 01:25:57.409
yeah And then they came out the fight. And I
01:25:57.409 --> 01:25:59.409
remember watching the post -fight interviews
01:25:59.409 --> 01:26:02.750
and that. And the guy was like, you were giving
01:26:02.750 --> 01:26:05.850
it some pretty big talk before the fight. What
01:26:05.850 --> 01:26:08.529
happened? And he's like, oh, yeah, I stubbed
01:26:08.529 --> 01:26:10.689
my toe the night before. And it's like, fuck
01:26:10.689 --> 01:26:14.409
off, you fanny. Like, what are you on about?
01:26:14.710 --> 01:26:17.729
Oh, that's terrible, yeah. So that's what I mean.
01:26:17.850 --> 01:26:20.560
Like, diesels, they talk a good game. And then
01:26:20.560 --> 01:26:23.300
they start off really well and then it just goes
01:26:23.300 --> 01:26:26.760
to shit really quickly. Yeah, fair. Absolutely
01:26:26.760 --> 01:26:29.560
fair. Okay, I am way more on board with that
01:26:29.560 --> 01:26:32.079
than I thought it was going to be. Did you think
01:26:32.079 --> 01:26:34.060
that was going to be a tortured analogy there?
01:26:34.220 --> 01:26:36.300
Yeah, man, I had no idea where that was going.
01:26:36.460 --> 01:26:39.699
But I agree. I totally agree. Fair enough. Yeah,
01:26:39.720 --> 01:26:42.840
well, I mean, yeah, it is what it is like. So,
01:26:42.880 --> 01:26:45.819
David, there we go, people. More valid consumer
01:26:45.819 --> 01:26:49.920
advice. Don't buy. diesel engine you might as
01:26:49.920 --> 01:26:55.060
well go out and get yourself a david hay or any
01:26:55.060 --> 01:27:01.520
other professional boxers exist you know yeah
01:27:01.520 --> 01:27:03.720
professional boxers are just being purchased
01:27:03.720 --> 01:27:06.399
to do like carrying folk about and like just
01:27:06.399 --> 01:27:10.380
general laboring oh do you know The beautiful
01:27:10.380 --> 01:27:13.500
thing about the multiverse is, well, multiverse
01:27:13.500 --> 01:27:15.680
theory, there's probably an earth somewhere where
01:27:15.680 --> 01:27:18.420
the only reason professional boxers exist is
01:27:18.420 --> 01:27:21.300
to carry people about. But what would that mean
01:27:21.300 --> 01:27:23.300
for what we're doing right now? Would we be talking
01:27:23.300 --> 01:27:26.380
about the different types of professional boxers
01:27:26.380 --> 01:27:29.239
that you can get carried about in? Well, I mean...
01:27:29.449 --> 01:27:31.550
It must mean that, yeah. Because you would have
01:27:31.550 --> 01:27:34.210
enthusiasts about being... What the fuck are
01:27:34.210 --> 01:27:37.289
we talking about? You absolutely would. You would
01:27:37.289 --> 01:27:39.670
have enthusiasts about being carried about by
01:27:39.670 --> 01:27:44.229
a fireball. Oh, fuck, Tom. We need to move on.
01:27:44.430 --> 01:27:49.350
We absolutely do. Yeah, right. Fuck it then.
01:27:49.550 --> 01:27:53.869
So, before I get to the penultimate question
01:27:53.869 --> 01:27:57.550
of the episode, there's one subject we have to
01:27:57.550 --> 01:28:01.649
kind of... We have to broach. I'm not going into,
01:28:01.670 --> 01:28:04.270
like, drivetrain and stuff, because that was
01:28:04.270 --> 01:28:06.430
covered in the last episode about chassis and
01:28:06.430 --> 01:28:09.529
everything. Absolutely fair, yeah. Gearboxes.
01:28:09.649 --> 01:28:11.989
Now, there's not really a discussion here, I
01:28:11.989 --> 01:28:13.850
don't think. This is more of a statement, and
01:28:13.850 --> 01:28:15.789
I'm pretty sure we're both going to be aligned
01:28:15.789 --> 01:28:19.189
on it. So, it needs to be manual. It needs to
01:28:19.189 --> 01:28:22.210
be a good manual. It needs to be notchy, slick,
01:28:22.390 --> 01:28:26.489
with a short flow, a short throw, and preferably
01:28:26.489 --> 01:28:31.899
six cogs. But, I mean, that's kind of it. I don't
01:28:31.899 --> 01:28:34.840
really have a question for you here. Yeah, I
01:28:34.840 --> 01:28:36.979
do broadly agree with that. Like, I would love
01:28:36.979 --> 01:28:41.760
to try a proper nice flappy paddle that doesn't
01:28:41.760 --> 01:28:45.979
just decide it wants to do gears for me. I still,
01:28:46.100 --> 01:28:48.979
I just really like a manual gearbox. I don't
01:28:48.979 --> 01:28:51.500
set enough traffic for it to really be a problem,
01:28:51.680 --> 01:28:54.560
for it to be, like, difficult to, not difficult,
01:28:54.699 --> 01:28:58.380
sorry, to be, like, kind of tiring. and like
01:28:58.380 --> 01:29:00.439
kind of not that much fun to just constantly
01:29:00.439 --> 01:29:02.359
be changing gear or sitting on the clutch or
01:29:02.359 --> 01:29:04.800
like you know just in traffic in a manual i'm
01:29:04.800 --> 01:29:08.239
just never in traffic so yeah manual six -speed
01:29:08.239 --> 01:29:12.579
please yeah that's it so with that big one covered
01:29:12.579 --> 01:29:16.979
what would your ideal engine be given what we've
01:29:16.979 --> 01:29:21.600
talked about i've always wanted to own a v8 I've
01:29:21.600 --> 01:29:23.420
always wanted to own a V8, and I would always
01:29:23.420 --> 01:29:26.439
kind of like to own a V12 as well. They're kind
01:29:26.439 --> 01:29:28.560
of like my poster engines, if you know what I
01:29:28.560 --> 01:29:31.600
mean. And, like, if I own them, I don't really
01:29:31.600 --> 01:29:33.380
want to take, like, a kind of shortcut to doing
01:29:33.380 --> 01:29:34.739
it. You know, like, oh, I bought a truck with
01:29:34.739 --> 01:29:36.939
a diesel V8 or something like that. You know,
01:29:36.939 --> 01:29:40.319
I actually want, like, a V8. Yeah, you don't
01:29:40.319 --> 01:29:42.220
want a cop -out. No, no, I don't want to say
01:29:42.220 --> 01:29:44.079
a technically owned one. I want to say, no, I
01:29:44.079 --> 01:29:47.180
own, you know, I own one. Like, that would be
01:29:47.180 --> 01:29:48.979
cool. So that's something aspirational to me.
01:29:50.319 --> 01:29:53.119
Likewise, a V12 would be sick. Like, absolutely
01:29:53.119 --> 01:29:55.800
sick. I mean, again, I would also not say no
01:29:55.800 --> 01:29:58.920
to a V10. But, like, there's less stuff with
01:29:58.920 --> 01:30:02.920
a V10 out there. And I'm not really that keen
01:30:02.920 --> 01:30:06.960
on buying a very, very, very, very, very, very
01:30:06.960 --> 01:30:10.880
cheap, mysteriously cheap luxury Audi with a
01:30:10.880 --> 01:30:17.060
V10 in it. No, that has some questionable seller
01:30:17.060 --> 01:30:21.810
motives, we'll say. yeah totally um oh oh you've
01:30:21.810 --> 01:30:23.409
got a kid on the way and it's not big enough
01:30:23.409 --> 01:30:25.590
for you all right yeah yeah totally yeah all
01:30:25.590 --> 01:30:30.829
right this massive v10 twin turbo estate isn't
01:30:30.829 --> 01:30:33.770
big enough for you and your child yeah totally
01:30:33.770 --> 01:30:38.170
that is an absolute fucking classic on the old
01:30:38.170 --> 01:30:42.750
advert it is what it is i suppose yeah no you
01:30:42.750 --> 01:30:46.390
make a good point though because like for for
01:30:46.390 --> 01:30:49.869
me it's six cylinders Because that's the magic
01:30:49.869 --> 01:30:53.149
fucking number, you know? For me, I prefer six
01:30:53.149 --> 01:30:58.569
to four, yeah. And it needs to be inline or flat.
01:30:58.850 --> 01:31:01.850
And apart from that, I'm not that picky, to be
01:31:01.850 --> 01:31:03.970
fair. It's because there's so much good stuff
01:31:03.970 --> 01:31:06.029
out there. There's so much interesting stuff.
01:31:06.609 --> 01:31:11.189
Yeah, I mean, when it comes down to what the
01:31:11.189 --> 01:31:15.390
question about this episode is, is what engine
01:31:15.390 --> 01:31:19.090
do we need and makes a good driver's car? There's
01:31:19.090 --> 01:31:21.310
a lot of different characters and a lot of different
01:31:21.310 --> 01:31:23.770
qualities an engine can have, but I think it
01:31:23.770 --> 01:31:26.609
kind of has to be, you have to pick it in line
01:31:26.609 --> 01:31:28.350
with what you want it to do and what the chassis
01:31:28.350 --> 01:31:31.510
is doing. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. We really
01:31:31.510 --> 01:31:34.149
should have thought of a theoretical car for
01:31:34.149 --> 01:31:39.670
this, to put all of the ideal parts on. So your
01:31:39.670 --> 01:31:43.909
good driver's car, for example, right? We're
01:31:43.909 --> 01:31:46.170
going to be either mid -engined or rear -engined,
01:31:46.170 --> 01:31:48.539
and it's going to be used... majority of the
01:31:48.539 --> 01:31:51.720
and rear wheel drive majority of your use is
01:31:51.720 --> 01:31:55.319
going to be b roads twisty a roads and track
01:31:55.319 --> 01:31:58.220
work and that's it so that's the that's what
01:31:58.220 --> 01:31:59.760
you're looking for here you're looking for an
01:31:59.760 --> 01:32:03.539
engine for your ideal driver's car what would
01:32:03.539 --> 01:32:07.880
it have oh i could totally see in it a straight
01:32:07.880 --> 01:32:11.619
six yeah yeah i could see straight six in that
01:32:11.619 --> 01:32:16.239
for sure it's fair What that car makes me think
01:32:16.239 --> 01:32:17.939
about is it makes me think lightweight. Yeah.
01:32:18.039 --> 01:32:20.920
Which makes me think kind of light, peppy engine
01:32:20.920 --> 01:32:24.279
is what you want with that. So if we were to
01:32:24.279 --> 01:32:27.579
settle on, like if it was front engine rear wheel
01:32:27.579 --> 01:32:31.640
drive, we're looking sort of two to three litre,
01:32:31.640 --> 01:32:36.600
NA, straight six, possibly turbo, but running
01:32:36.600 --> 01:32:39.140
the risk of giving you too much power to be properly
01:32:39.140 --> 01:32:41.529
playful, I would feel. yeah you wouldn't want
01:32:41.529 --> 01:32:44.010
to make it quite nervous or snappy or anything
01:32:44.010 --> 01:32:48.770
yeah you want it to be the the perfect tactile
01:32:48.770 --> 01:32:52.029
driving experience so too much power is out but
01:32:52.029 --> 01:32:54.970
then when it comes to like mid -engined really
01:32:54.970 --> 01:32:58.989
i think you're looking like v8 totally yeah v12
01:32:58.989 --> 01:33:01.909
i don't really want to go v10 because for me
01:33:01.909 --> 01:33:04.609
it would be the 8 or the 12 cylinder like you've
01:33:04.609 --> 01:33:07.590
said um and really i don't think it matters at
01:33:07.590 --> 01:33:09.510
that point Because when you get to mid -engined
01:33:09.510 --> 01:33:12.109
and rear -engined, you've got so much natural
01:33:12.109 --> 01:33:14.369
traction with weight transfer that you could
01:33:14.369 --> 01:33:17.789
have plenty of power. I totally agree, but I've
01:33:17.789 --> 01:33:22.329
had a thought. Hear me out, right? Hit me. Mid
01:33:22.329 --> 01:33:26.529
-engined, rear -wheel drive, inline six. Yeah,
01:33:26.550 --> 01:33:28.689
I would not argue with that. Transversely mounted.
01:33:29.109 --> 01:33:33.890
On a kind of platform that's like... Think like
01:33:33.890 --> 01:33:37.859
the Honda... del sol is that the one that was
01:33:37.859 --> 01:33:41.939
the uh it had like a weird shape yes it was what
01:33:41.939 --> 01:33:43.420
i should really have said is think kind of like
01:33:43.420 --> 01:33:46.279
mr2 style platform but like you know a strict
01:33:46.279 --> 01:33:49.039
two -seater yeah with an inline six instead of
01:33:49.039 --> 01:33:51.819
an inline four that i think if you had a small
01:33:51.819 --> 01:33:54.640
platform like that i would go that kind of size
01:33:54.640 --> 01:33:56.760
engine but anything bigger yeah you'd probably
01:33:56.760 --> 01:34:01.939
be like a v8 or v12 fair enough well as a kind
01:34:01.939 --> 01:34:05.699
of rounding up statement tell me if you would
01:34:05.699 --> 01:34:09.140
agree so there's a lot of different characters
01:34:09.140 --> 01:34:11.180
and a lot of different qualities that an engine
01:34:11.180 --> 01:34:14.699
can take but for it to truly achieve greatness
01:34:14.699 --> 01:34:19.359
in a driver's car really it's almost about the
01:34:19.359 --> 01:34:22.100
quality of the interaction between the engine
01:34:22.100 --> 01:34:25.520
and the chassis as well as the driver and everything
01:34:25.520 --> 01:34:29.739
else and how everything interplays that makes
01:34:29.739 --> 01:34:32.859
the engine good like you can put a good engine
01:34:32.859 --> 01:34:37.670
in a shit car Absolutely, yeah. 100%. That's
01:34:37.670 --> 01:34:38.970
exactly what I was thinking. It's like you can
01:34:38.970 --> 01:34:42.250
have a really, really willing, fun, playful engine
01:34:42.250 --> 01:34:45.630
in an absolute fucking boat that punishes you
01:34:45.630 --> 01:34:48.670
for actually, you know, travelling at speed because
01:34:48.670 --> 01:34:51.829
it can't handle itself in the corners. But by
01:34:51.829 --> 01:34:55.010
virtue, I don't think the opposite is true. I
01:34:55.010 --> 01:34:59.489
think if you put a bad, I say a bad, a weak or
01:34:59.489 --> 01:35:03.100
a mediocre engine in a fantastic chassis, what
01:35:03.100 --> 01:35:07.380
it does is create a momentum car. Well, I totally
01:35:07.380 --> 01:35:10.779
agree with that. Have you ever been in a momentum
01:35:10.779 --> 01:35:13.699
car and just been like, God, I'm so annoyed right
01:35:13.699 --> 01:35:15.500
now. All I want is more power because there's
01:35:15.500 --> 01:35:18.279
so much more potential in this? I have, yes.
01:35:18.680 --> 01:35:21.939
That's frustrating as well. It is. It's frustrating.
01:35:22.239 --> 01:35:25.479
But the point I'm making is that I think that
01:35:25.479 --> 01:35:28.579
for an engine to be great, it depends on the
01:35:28.579 --> 01:35:31.039
chassis that it's put into being great as well.
01:35:31.340 --> 01:35:34.250
Working in partnership. yeah i think it it has
01:35:34.250 --> 01:35:36.729
to form a partnership with the chassis in order
01:35:36.729 --> 01:35:40.149
for it all to work um because if it doesn't do
01:35:40.149 --> 01:35:42.829
that what you what you're in essence left with
01:35:42.829 --> 01:35:45.529
is a drag car it's very good in a straight line
01:35:45.529 --> 01:35:47.430
and nothing else like it doesn't stop very well
01:35:47.430 --> 01:35:51.369
it doesn't steer or handle well it just accelerates
01:35:51.369 --> 01:35:53.189
like a rocket and does a really high top speed
01:35:53.189 --> 01:35:56.310
and that's right totally like okay great it's
01:35:56.310 --> 01:35:58.449
really really good on the motorway brilliant
01:35:58.449 --> 01:36:02.340
but it's a one trick pony And a good driver's
01:36:02.340 --> 01:36:05.180
car should be able to do everything passively
01:36:05.180 --> 01:36:09.399
well, but it should be fun, engaging and tactile
01:36:09.399 --> 01:36:13.300
as the absolute three things. And I think the
01:36:13.300 --> 01:36:17.100
engine depends on the chassis as well as the
01:36:17.100 --> 01:36:18.859
chassis depending on the engine. I think the
01:36:18.859 --> 01:36:21.420
two are intermingled in a very, very nuanced
01:36:21.420 --> 01:36:25.000
fashion. Yeah, absolutely. No, I totally agree
01:36:25.000 --> 01:36:28.779
with that. I think that's a good way to sum it
01:36:28.779 --> 01:36:32.329
up, actually. There are elements that can help
01:36:32.329 --> 01:36:34.750
you make a great engine, but ultimately you need
01:36:34.750 --> 01:36:37.449
to listen to the first episode in this to understand
01:36:37.449 --> 01:36:39.310
what a great chassis is and combine the two.
01:36:39.710 --> 01:36:43.770
Yeah, I think that's us, man. I think that might
01:36:43.770 --> 01:36:46.130
be it. I totally agree. I think that's a great
01:36:46.130 --> 01:36:49.210
place to end. Definitely. Look at that. We've
01:36:49.210 --> 01:36:51.409
actually done an episode with a very succinct
01:36:51.409 --> 01:36:54.289
ending. Yeah, now we're getting better, right?
01:36:54.310 --> 01:36:56.890
Getting better. Yeah, the production value is
01:36:56.890 --> 01:36:58.890
increasing, folks. You've got to hand it to us.
01:36:59.680 --> 01:37:04.119
Absolutely. So, yeah, we've been Auto Arcadia.
01:37:04.199 --> 01:37:06.739
Thank you very, very much for listening. And
01:37:06.739 --> 01:37:09.039
if you've enjoyed this, please give us a like,
01:37:09.060 --> 01:37:12.140
subscribe and leave a comment. We'd love to hear
01:37:12.140 --> 01:37:15.140
from you. Absolutely. Five stars, please, folks.
01:37:15.380 --> 01:37:17.319
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