Ep. 61 - The Kink Consultant Conversation with Amanda Dames

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Everyday people following their passions.
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That's probably like one of the highlights of my life so far.
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Just being able to be creative like that.
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Something I've always wanted.
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And then I decided to get another hive, and that turned into a lot of hives.
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As long as I can do that, I want to be a good citizen, help people out.
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Putting themselves out there, taking chances, and navigating challenges along the way.
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I I absolutely identified with having stage ride because, you know, anytime I went on stage, I just felt like I was having a hot attack.
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Very first lap, very first practice session, I crashed, turned the car upside down, made a spectacle of myself, and I got back on that horse and started riding again.
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As they pursue what makes them happy and brings them joy.
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As long as people are having a good time and I have the opportunity to put smiles on people's faces.
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I love what I do.
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I have done things that I never thought I could do.
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To have somebody tell me how real it looks and how, you know, from their actual memory.
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Because that's telling me I've captured what I was trying to get.
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Welcome to Assorted Conversations.
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I'm your host, Helen.
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Hello, and thanks for tuning in to another Assorted Conversation.
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So, this week's episode, we're gonna file under, and now for something completely different.
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Before we get started, just a heads up, today's topic is kink.
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Yes, that's what I said.
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Kink.
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My guest this week is a certified sex and relationship professional who is helping couples introduce and explore kink in their marriages or monogamous relationships.
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Her academic achievements, coupled with her experience as a dominatrix in a New York City dungeon, made for a very interesting and educational conversation.
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With that being said, please be advised before blasting this through speakers or listening in the car with children of any age.
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Now, pour yourself a glass of wine, dim the lights, listen to this week's episode, and I'll see you on the other side.
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Now, if you're sitting there thinking, I don't know anything about kink, is this episode even from me?
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You are not alone.
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I'm wondering the same thing myself.
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But the answer is an absolute yes.
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Today's conversation goes way beyond leather and whips.
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This week's guest is here to break down the universal psychology of trust, power dynamics, and boundaries.
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By the end of this episode, we're going to walk away with a masterclass in radical self-honesty, deep communication strategies we can use in any relationship, and the inspiration to embrace our own desires with zero shame and a hundred percent confidence.
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Get ready for real talk, zero judgment, and an incredibly fun ride.
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I am so happy to welcome to Assortic Conversations the amazing Amanda Dames.
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Hi, Amanda.
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Hey, Helen, thank you for that.
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I was like, I need to steal that intro and like put it before any time I open my mouth because you really had me with if this sounds like it's not for you, like may yeah I understand that because I face that doing the work I do.
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So many people think, oh, kink, I'm not kinky.
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This isn't for me.
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And then we even just get 10 seconds into a conversation and I've got them hooked, and they're realizing, oh, maybe I do have a few fantasies or I do imagine certain things.
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So I'm so excited to be here.
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Well, I thanks for taking the time.
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When you originally reached out to me, that was my initial reaction.
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I was like, oh, I don't know.
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I don't know if this is for the audience.
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But I think the fact that where you're at now started kind of as a moonlighting job while you were burning through corporate ladders, you know, in your in your day job and in corporate marketing, it just, you know, it kind of speaks to, okay, this was the side hustle, or, you know, it is something she's passionate about.
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Now you've turned it into a full-fledged coaching business.
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So, and relate, you know, relationship coach business.
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So yeah, that when I when I looked at it through that lens, I was like, oh yeah, I think people would definitely, you know, get something out of this and be interested in learning more about it because there are aspects of what you do, even if it's not the kink part of it, but there are aspects of what you've learned and what you coach people on that we can apply, you know, in our own personal relationship.
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So that's what I'm eager to dig into.
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But yeah, you know, I have to ask, you were a dominatrix at one point.
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So I do want to hear some stories.
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Oh, absolutely.
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So you you're a hundred percent right.
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I was trying to climb the corporate ladder in America, and I had this great job, amazing health insurance.
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Wasn't necessarily making rent.
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Or, you know, I could make rent, but I wasn't living life in New York City.
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I wanted to go to the fancy restaurants, I wanted to experience the Broadway shows.
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Yeah.
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But that required a slightly higher budget.
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So I got a second job as a pro dom in a dungeon.
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I've always been kinky.
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Like I've known from a young age I had this interest or weird obsession with punishment and spanking, not being punished myself, would never want that.
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But if a friend was getting punished, I wanted to hear all about it.
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Like, why'd you get in trouble?
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What did you do?
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What happened?
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And I'd get excited by hearing their stories.
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So think of that.
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Like, I'm knowing this from five years old.
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I already feel like such a weirdo because I don't know why I care about this and nobody else cares.
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And then, like, we're talking less than 20 years later from that point.
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I find out, I find myself interviewing to work at a dungeon, like through a job I found on Craigslist.
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Wait a minute.
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From from five years old to I'm assuming mid-20s, what happened?
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Like, how did how did you either nurture it or so much?
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Okay.
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So I'm gonna, the quick thing, let's jump ahead to when I'm 13 years old.
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I've been fantasizing about like making up different scenarios in my head where I'm punishing someone or I'm getting in trouble for some reason.
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I'm 13.
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I'm watching like the late night TV shows, and there's this documentary style show, and there's this couple, and they're both submissive.
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So they go to a dominatrix to have their needs met because they're both submissive and they want to go to someone to dominate them.
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And everything clicked for me in that moment.
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I realized everything I'm obsessing over is sexual.
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When I'm 18, I will just go to a dominatrix and she will do the things I've been thinking about and life will be normal.
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It didn't occur to me I could even have it in my real personal life at 13, uh-huh.
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But then slow, like by the next year, I got my first boyfriend, I got him to spank me, and like the idea of a dominatrix was far in the back of my head.
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I did not think anything of it.
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I was like, okay, I don't need this.
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I like, I'll find it in my personal life.
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And then there was actually a long period of time still being very embarrassed and ashamed of my desires and not being able to talk to my partners, my different boyfriends, about what I wanted without feeling stupid, weird, like a burden.
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And then I moved to New York City and I knew the job of being a dominatrix existed.
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I'd actually read a book about a woman who had done it, and the opportunity, I just thought it's the most understandable feeling to think, oh, I want to do like I'm anonymous in New York City.
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I can do and be whoever I want, and let me dip my toes into being a dominatrix.
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So I took I took that job, was making really great money, and for the first time in my life, deeply exploring every nook and cranny that comes along with feeling kinky, right?
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Uh-huh.
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Kinky is a spectrum, right?
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I'm like, if you talk to other really kinky people, and you know, they might follow me on social media or listen to my podcast, but they think, oh, this girl's barely kinky at all.
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And my point is exactly, I can barely be kinky at all and still have issues talking to my partner about it and have struggled with it and now want to help other people with it.
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And that's what happened at the dungeon.
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Like, my mind and world in kink expanded exponentially because I learned so much about what people's different interests were in things I would never have thought to Google.
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Clients would come in and ask for it, and then I'd have to like learn how to do it on the job and provide it.
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So, what was a side hustle was actually like my college education in kink and BDSM that set me up for the career I have now that I never knew I would ever want.
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Uh-huh.
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Right.
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So I know you want stories.
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So I'm gonna Well, I I I have questions.
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I have actually I have a lot of questions.
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So by day, you have you're doing, you know, everything everybody else around you is doing.
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By night, you are secretly trying to reconcile what's been going on in your head and your heart for years.
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Yeah.
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Correct?
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So, how did you work up the confidence to go apply to be a dominatrix when it was just something that had been very abstract in your head?
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I am too dumb to worry about confidence.
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Do you know what I mean?
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Like, I didn't even know I needed to be confident.
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I was just so curious, and that leads me in so many different directions because I'm not thinking I have to be any type of way.
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I go in with this learner mentality of have you ever heard that thing where people describe themselves by their job or their education or whatever they put value in, right?
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Yeah.
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If you strip all of that away, how do you describe yourself?
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Yeah, I realized I'm a learner.
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I am so curious.
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And I the baseline version of me just wants to know why, know how.
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So I didn't even think about being confident.
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I was, I just wanted in the doors.
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I wanted to see what it was gonna be like.
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That it never occurred to me I'd have to be good at it.
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I just wanted to try it.
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How did how did you get past the the the the stigma?
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You know, maybe maybe confidence was the wrong word.
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How did you get past the stigma of it?
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No, the more interesting thing is like that question brings something up in my chest because I am not past the stigma of it now.
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Oh wow.
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I think I am on a crusade to destigmatize kink because I'm tired of the stigma that I still feel sometimes too.
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And what I mean is I kept it secret for a reason.
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I didn't want to I kept it secret because you can't tell people you're into this stuff, at least not publicly.
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This was a time where, yes, 50 Shades of Grey, the book had come out, but the movies hadn't even come out yet, right?
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Kink and BDSM still had a terrible they do now as well.
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Like I'm learning being in the Midwest after living in New York City and Vegas, that kink is still this scary thing.
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People think, oh, everyone into kink and BDSM has a messed up head.
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Yeah.
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So at the time, I think I thought I did have a messed up head.
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I was I believed that, oh, I'm into these things, so something must be wrong with me.
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It was a self-acceptance of something's wrong with me, but I don't have enough answers, so let me keep going forward and get answers.
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Okay, interesting.
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Yeah.
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So that was, I think, where the confidence and getting past the stigma came from.
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I used to be embarrassed when people called me a weirdo, which happened a lot growing up in Ireland, to be honest.
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But it and eventually you're just like, okay, I'm a weirdo in New York City.
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And if you look around, everyone's kind of weird.
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And that gave that gave me permission.
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So I think what got me past the stigma was being in New York City where everyone is so individual.
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And I recently said to someone about being in Kansas City and it being very different from New York or Vegas.
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And they made a joke.
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They were like, yeah, that's because all of the interesting people went to New York and Vegas.
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So that's why it's so different in Kansas City.
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And I sometimes feel that.
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So I don't know if I would have been as brave if I lived in Kansas City going for something like that.
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I never would have done it in Ireland, a small where I grew up, a small country where people are quite judgy.
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So, or at least they were at the time.
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I think it's changed a lot and grown a lot.
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But I know that I would not have been as confident or willing to go work in a dungeon in Dublin as I was in New York City.
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It was the anonymity.
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And unless you've lived in Manhattan, I think that you don't fully understand the power of moving somewhere.
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No one knows you.
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And you could leave the next year and no one will remember you were there anyway.
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That's New York.
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And it allowed me to have it.
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So I think the answer is probably New York.
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We got there in the end, Helen.
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We got to answer.
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New York City is why.
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Yeah.
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Oh, that's funny.
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So, God, I don't even know what to ask you.
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It's like, did they have it on boarding program?
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What was day one like?
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This is a great, okay.
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So day interview day, right?
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I show up and I am nervous in the interview because I feel like I'm gonna be judged and told I'm an idiot and not cut out for it.
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And that's rejection, no matter what form you receive rejection in, is not fun.
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To be told you're not enough to be here, so we don't want you here would have killed me.
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It turns out the bar for being a dominatrix is low.
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Like it's you gotta just look presentable.
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And I don't even mean you have to look drop dead gorgeous.
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You literally just to, you need to look dressed and like you know how to put yourself together and you need to be able to talk to people.
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So the manager working was particularly difficult to talk to.
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She was kind of mean in the interview.
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When you got to know her, she was just, she was actually lovely and the most protective woman you could even imagine.
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She was a mama bear through and through, but until you're in her circle, you're a threat.
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So she was a mama bear protecting her cubs who were the DOMs working there.
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And I was an outsider.
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So she didn't look at me.
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She literally was looking at monitors where they have street cameras to make sure it's safe and they can watch who's coming and going.
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And I I was out to impress.
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So I tried to explain.
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I'm kinky, I'm submissive, but I think I know what it takes to be a Dom.
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I'm involved in the local community.
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I go to kink parties.
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And, you know, it was basically like, okay, this woman's not an idiot.
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She fully understands what kink is, which is more than a lot of other people who interview.
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And the job she was basically, okay, when can you start?
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What shifts do you want?
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You choose the shifts, but you either have to be here 11 to 6 or 5 to 1 a.m., something like that, right?
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And I was like, I can't be here at five.
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I finished my other job at five.
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And she's like, she rolled her eyes, she was like, fine, you can come at 5:30, but don't tell anyone we're letting you do that.
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So there was flexibility in it.
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So I show up on day one, and yeah, I'm definitely nervous because I'm like, what if I suck at this?
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Like, that's when it hits me.
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I'm like, oh, I could be terrible at this, or what did I get myself?
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Yeah.
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And I finish my job at the Wall Street Journal.
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I would close my laptop and I literally just run down the 10 blocks because I don't want to be late on my first day.
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Run down the 10 blocks to where the dungeon is.
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And I walk in and it's a different manager.
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And this woman could not have been nicer.
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She looks me up and down and she says, Oh, I like how you're dressed.
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You've got a whole like step for Dom thing going on.
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Cause I was dressed for corporate America in this little like dress with a thin belt at the waist, which was all the rage in 2013.
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Like, that's how you dressed.
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And she gave me confidence in being like, I felt like I could carve out my own little place.
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But as for training on the job, you all of the other women you were working with were your competition.
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You only got paid if you got a session and you were competing with other women for the same session.
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So you had to basically ingratiate yourself into their little community and convince them to teach you.
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And it helped them to teach you because then our dungeon is known as a good dungeon where everyone's smart and no matter who you get, they're going to know how to do a session with you.
00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:28.480
So more men come because it's a trustworthy place.
00:17:28.640 --> 00:17:33.440
But at the same time, they don't want to teach you too much in case you get a session over them.
00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:37.599
So it's you are fighting to learn and you have to be curious.
00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.680
If you're just there thinking your looks are going to get you by, that is false.
00:17:41.839 --> 00:17:42.160
Okay.
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:47.599
So you have to find out what sessions people are going into and say, like, oh, hey, can I get a tip in?
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:49.519
Because you never want to give a man something free.
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:54.240
You can't show up for free in the session because then he's getting a woman for free.
00:17:54.319 --> 00:17:58.319
And that is the economies are not there when someone's walking in.
00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:00.480
So you ask to tip in and learn.
00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:03.119
So you get$20 for showing up for 10 minutes.
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:07.200
And in that 10 minutes, you're taught something new and you build on your skill set.
00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:10.480
So that happens over months, not day one.
00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:12.960
So okay.
00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:18.720
And please, no disrespect intended to you or anybody else that works in dungeons.
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:25.039
But is it legalized prostitution?
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:26.559
Oh, there's no sex.
00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:27.119
Okay.
00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:27.680
Yes.
00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:29.680
So we don't have sex with clients.
00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:36.960
In fact, there are a lot of laws, and I'm not saying people didn't break these specific laws, but there is no sex at a dungeon.
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:42.880
If you are expecting to go to a dungeon and pay someone extra money to have sex with you, you are about to be sorely disappointed.
00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:45.359
No one is going to have sex with you for that reason.
00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:47.279
It's illegal to do so.
00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:50.799
What were folks going to the dungeon for?
00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:55.680
You were paying money basically to role play, to be in a headspace.
00:18:55.839 --> 00:19:00.000
Like I had clients pay me just to spank them and tell them they were bad.
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:02.799
I had clients who wanted me to pretend to be their babysitter.
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:09.039
I had clients who just wanted to talk about their fantasies because they didn't feel accepted in their relationship.
00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:14.160
Their spouse knew they had it, but they were like, no, I'm not doing that with you.
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:17.359
And for a lot of people, it is a need.
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:24.880
Not everyone, but you know, for the ones who were like, I need this or else I don't feel like fully, yes, they don't feel whole.
00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:33.440
So they would come and they would, yes, they might masturbate at the end of a session, but I wasn't masturbating them for, you know, I wasn't touching them.
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:36.720
In fact, here's where the legality got questionable.
00:19:36.880 --> 00:19:38.480
You couldn't exchange body fluids.
00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:44.240
So if a man wanted you to spit in his mouth, which is a common request, that's illegal.
00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:46.559
They want to feel degraded, right?
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:48.160
So you can't exchange body fluids.
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.640
I think you could spit on someone, just not in their mouth.
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:51.119
Okay.
00:19:51.599 --> 00:20:03.279
The majority of my clients are heterosexual couples who are married 20 years, 15 years, and just want to introduce they don't want to go to a dominatrix.
00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:04.720
I basically did that job.
00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:07.839
And now my clients are the people who are like, I've done the dominatrix thing.
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:09.039
I don't want to go to them anymore.
00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:10.720
I want to explore this with my wife.
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:11.519
Yeah.
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:12.079
Yeah.
00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:20.720
Now, for you, through through the dungeon experience and your journey, what did you learn about you?
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:32.559
And what did you learn about other folks that either, you know, made you feel more comfortable in your own space, you know, with everything that you had been carrying with you?
00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:33.759
I guess let's start there.
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:37.200
What did you learn about you that put you more at ease?
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:42.720
You know, I don't think I was, I was 24 and 20.
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:45.519
I worked there for two years, from 24 to like 26.
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:53.279
And I don't think I fully paid attention to what I was learning or I wasn't applying it to my own life.
00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:56.640
Like the lessons I learned didn't really click until years later.
00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:03.599
So the number one thing that sticks with me to this day, and I hear it in a different version in my role as a coach now.
00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:08.720
Men would come to me and they would say, I married the person I was supposed to marry.
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:12.640
I didn't know I could have this in my marriage or in my personal life.
00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:21.599
They essentially meant they married the trophy wife, the person who looked good on paper and never thought about their own pleasure and desires in the bedroom because they were on a track.
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:23.759
They were going to climb the ladder in corporate America.
00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:28.480
And these were men who made high six-figure salaries with a seven-figure bonus in New York City.
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:29.680
They were millionaires.
00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:40.160
They had the wife that looked good at the corporate dinners, and I'm sure she was lovely, but she definitely did not share his interest in kink or BDSM.
00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:42.319
And he was pushing it down for so long.
00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.839
So then he would come to the dungeon and he would seek it out and he would enjoy it.
00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:47.839
And he'd feel good that he got to experience it.
00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:50.160
And then he'd go home to his wonderful life.
00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:52.559
That honestly, at the time, I was quite jealous of.
00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:54.640
I had no empathy for these men.
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:56.480
I thought your life is perfect.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:57.440
Boo-hoo.
00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:59.680
You don't have this thing that you could have asked for earlier.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.359
In your life, but you didn't.
00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:01.839
Right.
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:03.599
I have a lot more empathy now.
00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:13.599
But I remember thinking, okay, Amanda, the number one thing is you cannot end up with someone who's not kinky, or else you'll be unhappy like these people are.
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:23.440
So, and I noticed that if you don't have this part in your life, it becomes a larger portion of the pie in your head.
00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:25.759
So these people had everything.
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:30.079
In my 24-year-old's eyes, I was like, oh, you're where I want to be.
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:35.039
But they didn't have kink, they didn't have the intimacy they wanted in their relationship.
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:41.519
And that became a huge thought in their head, even though we all say, Oh, sex isn't that important.
00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:44.079
You barely have sex 20 years into a marriage.
00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:50.720
But I'll tell you, it better be good then, because if you're only doing it once every three months, you want it to be great.
00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:54.559
So, my what I learned was, okay, prioritize this.
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:55.279
It matters.
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:58.240
Intimacy and connect sexual connection is important.
00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:06.559
But I don't think I fully understood how, why, or what it looked like to be prioritized in a safe, healthy way until years later.
00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:22.960
And even now that I work with couples and I help them introduce this in their marriage 15 or 20 years in, I see the nuance of what it means to prioritize it in a health and safe way, healthy and safe way, because you can't be obsessive about it.
00:23:23.039 --> 00:23:31.759
You can't always be talking to your partner about it, even though what's happening is couples, when they when the person doesn't have it, it becomes a larger piece of the pie.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:36.960
So they obsess over it as opposed to just getting it once a month and not thinking about it the rest of the month.
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:39.920
So I learned, okay, this is important for me.
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:40.799
I need to go after it.
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:43.759
But I don't think I learned how to do that safely and well.
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:49.359
I was just sort of dating a bunch and throwing this out there as opposed to being intentional.
00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:53.519
And what I learned about myself was it's okay to want these things.
00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:54.960
In fact, it's normal.
00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:58.160
The most dangerous thing is to not embrace it.
00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:04.240
So I started to just be more I embraced it, I just didn't understand how to share it at the time.
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:05.200
Does that make sense?
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:21.440
Like I embraced it, I accepted myself doing that work, but to my point of still being feeling the stigma, yeah, it took a long time for me to truly be okay with telling people who weren't my partner about it.
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:23.680
No, I mean about being kinky.
00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:24.079
You know?
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:24.400
Yeah.
00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:32.960
I know I could, I completely, I, I completely understand that because again, like I said, when you approached me, I was like, gee, I don't know.
00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:42.640
I this is might be a little off-brand for me, but you know, I was kind of fascinated by your journey and and by where you are now.
00:24:43.039 --> 00:25:01.359
And, you know, it's it's kind of how you got there and what drove you, not so much, you know, what you're doing now, because what you're doing now is you're taking all of that knowledge, all of that understanding of things that people just stuff down for years and never talk about.
00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:17.519
You actually rolled up your sleeves and weeded through the crap to figure it out so that you can actually, you know, get the diamonds in the rough and bring those into couples' relationships to help their relationships get stronger.
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:20.799
You know, it it's education, it's acceptance.
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:26.079
And that's what I truly loved about your story when we, you know, when we first started talking.
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:30.559
And that's what got me over the stigma of, oh, I don't know.
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:32.960
I don't know if we should talk about kink.
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:41.039
But, you know, what what you've done through that, I think is is really valuable and really important for the people that you work with.
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:43.920
And it's it's also, you know, again, educating me.
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:49.039
I, you know, like I told you before we were on mic, I have the sense of humor of a 12-year-old boy.
00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:52.400
I've had to mute my mic a couple times to keep from giggling.
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:55.119
But you're you're also educating me.
00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:57.279
And, you know, life is life is a journey.
00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:00.240
If you stop learning, to me, you stop living.
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.319
So that's how I feel.
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:04.319
And kink is about curiosity.
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:17.119
But I on this point, I agree with you completely because as I said, I talk about all of these things, but my own life, compared to many kinksters, actually looks very vanilla, right?
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:18.559
Because I'm with a partner.
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:20.559
We live a very boring normal life.
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:22.480
We do not have look at my office.
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:29.039
It's it's my office is pink and full of color, and there's no like whips and chains and leather.
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:32.079
Because you can explore this, it's a spectrum, right?
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:32.400
Yeah.
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:36.799
And my work at the dungeon took me deep down paths where I learned everything.
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:39.680
So now I said it was like a college education.
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:48.079
You can bring almost any kink up to me, and I might call it something different, but I've experienced it or engaged with it in some type of way already.
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:54.480
So there is nothing anyone can bring me that shocks me or that I would judge because I'm familiar with it.
00:26:54.640 --> 00:27:02.960
But the way I live my life now and why I do this work is you can hear the word kink in BDSM, and I want people to understand it's a spectrum.
00:27:03.039 --> 00:27:08.319
It literally could just mean being tied up during sex or even having your hands held above you.
00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:14.319
Or I don't know if you've heard this, but have you ever heard a woman say, I just want him to take charge in the bedroom?
00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:17.359
Yeah, I think I've actually even said it.
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:20.960
That is kink, right?
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:24.640
And I think they shy away from the word kink.
00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:26.079
And I talk about this a lot.
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:30.640
I actually wrote an article that no one would publish, but it says kink has a PR problem.
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:42.799
And I think that that's why if I describe to you, well, I just like when he tells me to get on the bed and be a certain way, and then he's a little rougher, but very loving too, and I trust him.
00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:44.480
That's kinky sex.
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:51.359
And I think the thing that people don't realize is kink and fantasy and desire can look a bunch of different ways.
00:27:51.440 --> 00:28:01.519
And something I'm running into a lot as a coach is I meet men and women, and a lot of time the kinky partner coming is a man, and the non-kinky partner is a woman.
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:03.440
I say, Well, what's your fantasy?
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:04.240
What's your desire?
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:08.160
And she quickly says, I don't have one, I don't have a fantasy or a desire.
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:10.000
Yeah, that would have been my go-to.
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:13.920
Because she's comparing it to her kinky partner, right?
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:16.799
And I'm like, no, you you must.
00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:31.839
And what I've noticed, and I'm pretty angry at society about this, is a lot of women's fantasy that they should get to live out is being wined and dined and taken on a helicopter ride and on a fancy date and made to feel like a princess.
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:33.759
That can be your fantasy.
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:36.799
It's a it can be your desire, and you deserve that.
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:41.279
But society tells you, oh, you're a gold digger if that's what you want.
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:52.000
And I think that people now shy away from even indulging or sharing that fantasy because they feel invalidated in wanting to be treated like a princess, and there's nothing wrong with it.
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:59.359
If you feel sexier, if you feel more cared about and taken care of by experiencing that fantasy, share it.
00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:08.160
Because the equivalent might be your husband wanting you to be in laundry or your partner wanting you to role-play a stranger who meets in a bar, right?
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:12.960
And those kinks and fantasies and role plays are almost celebrated.
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:14.720
Like, yes, go be adventurous.
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:22.240
Why can't being wined, dined, and taken on a helicopter ride be just as celebrated as a fantasy you get to indulge?
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:22.559
Yeah.
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:23.839
That's what I want to know.
00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:24.480
Yeah.
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:33.839
Well, and but I think you know, the word kink immediately denotes an image and an attitude and a darkness.
00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:40.400
I I don't think kink is associated with being light and romantic and pampering.
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:43.839
I I I think it's just the opposite.
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.960
So, you know, when you said, oh, that's kink too.
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:51.359
I in my in my head, I'm like, no, it there's nothing kinky about that.
00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:53.599
That's that's more romantic.
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:57.680
And ro but romance can be your fantasy, right?
00:29:57.920 --> 00:29:58.160
Yeah.
00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:00.640
And it doesn't, you don't need to pretend.
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:02.640
Here's the thing about kink, right?
00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:07.200
Do you know there's something called a praise kink of just being told, good girl, good job.
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:09.279
You're doing such a good job.
00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:15.920
And it could be something sexual, like you could be saying you're doing such a good job doing something sexual.
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:21.039
I'm mindful of your podcast listeners, but it also could be there's service submission.
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:30.640
And that's a kink where people get excited and disproportionately happy serving someone in ways that might include doing their taxes or doing their dishes for them.
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:47.440
And there's a large debate on the internet right now about something called a trad wife, a traditional wife who's gone back to more of the I work and raise the kids and stay at home, and you go out and you know, have a job that pays money and we have a balanced life.
00:30:47.599 --> 00:30:58.240
There are a lot of people who are kinky out there saying, this is just the role play I live with my partner all the time because I do the dishes and we live in a 1950s style household, and that's a kink.
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:07.839
So I really think intention does matter of whether something is kinky or not, but kink is not all pain and suffering and scary.
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:13.759
It's a lot of love and cuddling and exploring fantasy with intention.
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:14.640
Yeah.
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:15.920
Interesting.
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:20.799
Uh, you know, you you you said kink is a spectrum.
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:33.839
Walk us through kind of the, I don't want to say milestones, but you know, walk us through the different stages of the spectrum, starting with like probably the most innocuous.
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:44.480
So you also have to think of it's not just the spectrum, but it's kind of like an overton window of this is what society deems as normal.
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:50.000
And everything in the overton window would not be considered kinky, and then everything outside of it is kinky.
00:31:50.079 --> 00:32:01.680
So there was a time in life where a blowjob would have been considered kinky, and now that's the thing teenagers do before they're ready to have sex.
00:32:01.839 --> 00:32:02.559
Do you know what I mean?
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:06.799
It is no longer kinky, it's the precursor to sexual activity.
00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:09.519
So it's kind of what society dictates.
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:14.799
But just to I hate defining kink, but I'm gonna give a general overview.
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:21.440
It's any type of normalized sexual or erotic connection between two people.
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:26.000
Missionary sex is the the ex is non-kinky sex.
00:32:26.079 --> 00:32:28.640
It is also called vanilla when it's non-kinky.
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:30.640
Missionary, not kinky.
00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:33.839
Blowjobs, no longer kinky, anal sex.
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:36.559
Questionable, is it kinky or not?
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:40.720
Because it's not a normal part of most people's sex lives.
00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:46.319
Now let's get into some of the intro to kink level things.
00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:49.440
Everything I'm gonna talk about is also in a spectrum.
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:51.119
It could be very light to very hard.
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:52.799
Let's talk impact play.
00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:59.440
Light impact play would be like a little spank during before sex, which a lot of us have experienced.
00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:00.640
That's a little kinky.
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:09.680
It's not full-on kink, but that could go so hard as to be a wooden paddle that's used to leave bruises.
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:13.839
And that would be on the far end of the spectrum in impact play.
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:22.880
But impact play as a whole is not considered extremely kinky because spanking is probably one of the most common versions of it.
00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:25.599
Same with bondage.
00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:32.799
Sometimes people, I would not recommend tying your partner up with a tie because a silk tie can actually get very tight and cut off circulation.
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:37.680
But for the sake of argument, let's just say tying someone up in bed.
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:40.160
That might actually be a very beginner-level thing.
00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:44.880
Handcuffs, furry handcuffs, they sell them at like in the mall.
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:46.319
That could be kink.
00:33:46.480 --> 00:34:03.039
But it could also go to this extreme called shibari, which is a Japanese art form of tying rope around people, and it can look quite beautiful and be very intricate and take a lot of time and take a lot of time learning how to do it, like thousands of hours to learn to do it.
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:04.720
That would be more intricate.
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:08.639
So that's just each individual kink on a spectrum.
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:10.719
Now we can talk about BDSM.
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:26.960
It can go from we're just gonna do this in the bedroom for a 30-minute scene where we talk dirty to each other, to high protocol, 24-7 lifestyle where you're constantly in your dynamic of one person being submissive and one person being dominant.
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:29.840
However, that's still a role play.
00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:37.679
And I was used the example of if you and your Dom, like say I'm submissive and I am, and my partner is dominant, we show up to the hospital.
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:39.119
We're not in our roles.
00:34:39.280 --> 00:34:45.199
We're like two human beings who are partners with each other, showing up for an emergency, being like, this is the situation.
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:46.239
We're not in protocol.
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:51.280
So that's how I define it as being a role play, a very intricate, involved role play.
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:52.719
But it can be bondage.
00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:55.519
I mean, BDSM is a scary term.
00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:58.559
But again, spectrum.
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:05.920
There can be hardcore things like lots of heavy impact play, bruising, even cutting and extreme play.
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:16.559
But it can be as simple as a spanking because bondage or B stands for bondage, which I just gave the example of furry handcuffs all the way up to intricate bondage where you can't move.
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:21.280
The D stands for discipline, right?
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:26.800
And that could be a spanking or getting in trouble, which is my interest, but it also stands for dominance.
00:35:26.960 --> 00:35:39.360
And then that S stands for submission, which is a fun role play of power exchange, of just handing over power and playing with it and being like, you're in charge right now, you make all the decisions, and it can be fun and flirty or serious.
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:44.800
And then the S also stands for sadism, where the M stands for masochism.
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:50.320
So sadomasochism has quite an intense name about it.
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:51.920
And I would say that's actually intense.
00:35:52.000 --> 00:36:01.119
And I would say sadomasochism is on the far end of the spectrum of causing a lot of pain, enjoying it, and the masochist enjoying receiving the pain.
00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:04.239
So that might be impact play that is on the extreme end.
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:19.920
It might be emotional sadism where someone is humiliating you and making you feel bad, and you're an emotional masochist enjoying being humiliated or degraded, which to many people I know it sounds like, well, how could anybody be into that?
00:36:20.079 --> 00:36:20.239
Right.
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:23.039
Sometimes we like to play with the taboo.
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:29.440
We like to play with the idea that we're not smart or it's sometimes engaging in your biggest fear.
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:35.199
For example, my biggest fear would be that I'm useless or worthless and that people found me invaluable.
00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:42.079
To play with that in your sex life in kink and just toy with it and see what it feels like to try that on.
00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:43.039
It's like acting.
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:45.440
You get to try on that feeling.
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:52.079
I I would think as with anything, anything at all.
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:59.280
I mean, even outside the bedroom, too much of something you can start to cross lines.
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.800
Too much social media, you know, affects your mental health.
00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:16.480
How you know you're playing with mental health aspects with some of the you know the the higher end of the spectrum BDSM activities.
00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:20.159
Like it's almost like you're playing with fire.
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:23.280
Where is the turnoff or turn on in that?
00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:29.679
So you are playing with fire, and living on the edge can be exciting for people, but here's how you keep it safe.
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:35.119
After a scene, after anything intense, you might have experienced.
00:37:35.360 --> 00:37:47.360
So there's a high overlap of people who are neurodivergent on the autism spectrum or ADHD, being interested in kink and BDSM for many reasons.
00:37:47.679 --> 00:38:03.039
Some are attracted to the high level of communication required before, during, and after a scene where everything's talked out and planned and fully discussed because that none of this happens without extreme negotiation and consent, right?
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:07.760
And you can't have consent without talking about it and negotiating exactly how it's gonna go.
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:10.639
Some people also enjoy the sensory side of it.
00:38:10.719 --> 00:38:20.159
They need that extra input because their dopamine levels, like their body's ability to uh create its own dopamine, are less, I guess, skilled.
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:21.840
So they need a dopamine hit.
00:38:21.920 --> 00:38:29.280
And sometimes this type of play keeps their mind engaged, it keeps their attention, they're focused and makes them happy and spikes something in them.
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:33.119
But then there's something called aftercare where you've spiked and you've been feeling good.
00:38:33.199 --> 00:38:36.559
You're on this emotional high having all of these experiences.
00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:39.679
You want to come down gently, and that's where aftercare comes in.
00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:44.239
After an intense scene, at the end of the day, you check in with each other, you're like, How are you?
00:38:44.320 --> 00:38:45.280
What do you need?
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:55.599
You're helping each other get back to baseline because you're not, no matter what it is, you're not 24-7 in this psychological role play to the point that you are changing who you are as a person.
00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:55.920
Right.
00:38:56.079 --> 00:39:00.000
And if we were to, if we were to see something like that, we would call it out in the community.
00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:09.199
Or even personally, if I had a client come to me like that, I would say, this has gone beyond normal role play because this person has lost the ability to say no.
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:13.360
They no longer have executive function because they've handed it over so much.
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:15.679
I have never seen that in my life.
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:16.639
Really?
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:33.679
No, because the people who are going into this in an ethical, consensual way are not also the people who are looking for someone who is timid and just willing to do whatever they're told to do because there's also no fun in that.
00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:40.480
The type of person who goes after someone timid is an abuser, and that isn't in the kink world.
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:43.440
So there's no consent, negotiation.
00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:44.880
That's abuse.
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:50.239
And I think there is a large group of people who mistake BDSM and kink for abuse.
00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:58.400
But it all comes down to I always say this as long as it's consensual between adults and legal where you are, you're good to go.
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:03.119
But in order for it to be consensual, there needs to be negotiation.
00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:05.760
And without negotiation, you don't have consent.
00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:07.679
So you're probably just being an asshole.
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:10.320
And that's a nice way of saying you're being abusive, you know?
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:10.800
Yeah.
00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:11.280
Yeah.
00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:26.400
I mean, that the more we the more we get on to that topic, it it got me thinking, well, wow, this could really be harmful if the wrong people, the wrong couple get involved in this.
00:40:26.559 --> 00:40:38.800
And, you know, I always have the question in my head about the dominatrix or the the domineer, the dominant person and the submissive person.
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:42.000
It's like, is that really their relationship roles?
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:46.079
Or is it the opposite of what their true relationship is?
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:50.000
And the kink is they get to experience something different.
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:53.039
It's a lot of the kink of getting to experience something different.
00:40:53.199 --> 00:40:54.559
It's playing with roles.
00:40:54.800 --> 00:41:05.599
You're not wrong about the fact that it could get quite abusive, but in my experience, abusive people do not last in the kink scene because they're immediately called out for not being consensual.
00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:11.119
And what I the where I see abuse most, I don't see it in my clients.
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:16.159
I see uh clients talk to me about their ex-partners and how controlling they could be and different things like that.
00:41:16.320 --> 00:41:17.840
And it was never kinky at all.
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:23.440
It was built on humiliation and degradation that wasn't consensual, wasn't asked for.
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:26.400
In fact, it was just shaming to the person.
00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:30.719
There was no aftercare, there was no repairing what you had done.
00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:35.039
The thing about BDSM is it's there to hurt, not harm.
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:36.639
Harm is long term.
00:41:36.880 --> 00:41:39.119
Harm is where you're messing with someone psychologically.
00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:47.679
Hurt is, oh, you hurt my feelings, but you repair them and you don't get used to you can say no and you can stop it at any time.
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:51.840
I think that's a major difference between kink and BDSM and abuse.
00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:54.159
Kink and BDSM, there are safe words.
00:41:54.239 --> 00:41:55.840
It stops the moment you say.
00:41:56.079 --> 00:41:58.800
A lot of people will say things like, well, the sub has all the power.
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:05.599
And I don't fully believe that because it's a power exchange, but both people hold equal power in power exchange.
00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:08.000
They can stop it, they can hand it over.
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:13.920
In abusive relationships, one person really does have all the power to the point that they're scared to leave.
00:42:14.159 --> 00:42:20.000
Like one person's scared to leave because they truly believe that this other person holds all the power.
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:27.119
And in Kink and BDSM, we are everyone enters it fully understanding the other person doesn't have all the power.
00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:27.679
Yeah.
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:43.920
I think that's a huge distinction to make for folks that are curious, are you know possibly looking to reach out to you or possibly looking to bring this into their relationship?
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:53.039
I think that is a huge distinction to make and that it is consensual, it is a conversation, and there's homework to do.
00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:53.840
Yes.
00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:55.599
There's homework to do.
00:42:55.920 --> 00:43:05.760
Understand what it is you're you're you're attempting to bring into the bedroom or what you're trying to explore together.
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:20.960
So let's talk a little bit about how your kink experiences play into what you're currently doing now to help folks have deeper, more enriching relationships.
00:43:21.519 --> 00:43:26.000
So there's something that I want to call out that I don't I do talk about this.
00:43:26.079 --> 00:43:32.079
I think on in every conversation, I always like to mention there is a difference between a kink and a fetish.
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:43.119
And while a fetish has a terrible name, because when you when you hear the word fetish or fetishist, you think murderer, someone who can't control their urges and they need to do it and it's often seedy.
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:48.639
The only actual difference is a kink is a nice to have, a fetish is a need to have.
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:51.519
So I actually have a punishment fetish.
00:43:51.679 --> 00:43:58.559
And all a fetish means is I need to think about it or experience it to achieve arousal.
00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:06.239
So Maybe I'm not being spanked before sex every time, but during sex, I'm imagining a scenario where I'm being punished.
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:09.360
In and there are plenty of fetishes.
00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:19.280
There's balloon fetishes, hair fetish, foot fetish, smoking fetish, where people need to be thinking about this thing in order to achieve orgasm.
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:21.039
And some people are born with it.
00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:29.280
Some people, it develops later in life, maybe from a trauma or just creating this strong association between sexuality and the thing.
00:44:29.440 --> 00:44:40.400
Like there was a time in the 50s where nylon fetish was very common because young men saw nylons hanging in the bathroom and their first association was, oh, that's women, that's sex, that's the other sex.
00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:44.159
And they get obsessed with nylons and then they need, they have a nylon fetish.
00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:46.480
For me, I think I was born with my fetish.
00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:50.719
But I mentioned that because kink is a nice to have.
00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:52.880
It's nice, it spices things up in the bedroom.
00:44:52.960 --> 00:45:01.360
But if you are with a partner who is like, well, no, I need this, I really want it, I want a dirty talk about it, or I will fantasize about it to achieve arousal.
00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:04.320
You might have to look at, okay, is it a kink or is it a fetish?
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:11.440
And there's nothing wrong with a fetish, but you have to understand if I'm not going to explore this with them, they're still going to be thinking about it.
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:12.639
We're just not doing it together.
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:15.440
I'm not saying they're going to run off to a dominatrix in a dungeon.
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:17.119
They just might be fantasizing their head.
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:21.119
For example, I had plenty of vanilla relationships with a non-kinky person.
00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:25.039
I didn't go pay a professional Dom to do it.
00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:26.719
I just was imagining it.
00:45:27.039 --> 00:45:38.079
So if your partner brings this up to you, I want you to realize, like, oh, this might just be something they want to try, or it might be something they're more deeply needing in order to achieve arousal.
00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:43.840
And I did create a free guide to help people navigate the conversation.
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:45.599
So good.
00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:46.320
Yes.
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:59.199
It it makes it super easy for people because it's for both people and the couple, it's to explore your individual fantasies and share them with each other, but not just the fantasy itself, like being tied up with handcuffs.
00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:04.239
It goes beyond it to talk about what is the feeling you want to feel while you explore this.
00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:05.760
Is it that you want to feel bound?
00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:17.119
If you do you want to feel like you're not in control and you reckon there's safety information in there of how to make sure you're doing it safely, but also how to understand the desire behind your partner's request.
00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:23.360
And then the other part is ask your partner if they bring this up to you or if you're mentioning it to your partner.
00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:26.880
Let's just make it obvious how important it is to you.
00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:30.079
If this is something you definitely want, name it.
00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:32.079
Tell your partner this is important to me.
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:32.960
I want to try it.
00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:38.000
Because you could also just be saying, Oh, this would be fun to try, and you wouldn't even think about it again.
00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:40.239
But if it's something important to you, make that clear.
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:41.119
Yeah.
00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:41.840
Yeah.
00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:42.639
Yep.
00:46:42.960 --> 00:46:49.840
So my experience has taught me I've been the kinky person trying to work with a non-kinky person in relationship.
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.159
I've been the less kinky person working through things in a relationship.
00:46:54.400 --> 00:47:04.159
I have experienced and taken part in so many kinks having worked at a dungeon that there's nothing people bring to me that I've haven't heard of or experienced before.
00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:17.280
So all of that has come together in me now helping guide people, introduce kink in their relationship and sort of bring it in in a sustainable way that feels safe for both people.
00:47:18.239 --> 00:47:18.719
Nice.
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:19.280
Yeah.
00:47:19.519 --> 00:47:25.840
What what is what's the most common thing couples come to you for?
00:47:27.440 --> 00:47:35.519
So one of the most common things people come to me for is the husband is submissive and the wife is not kinky at all.
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:38.239
And the husband wants to explore being submissive.
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:48.400
And this is difficult for both people because men are told to be masculine and strong and never submit and that their job is to lead.
00:47:48.880 --> 00:47:56.239
So when they want to play with this role, a lot of women will be come will come to me and just say, that's not how I was raised to believe men should be.
00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:58.239
So I'm actually disgusted by this.
00:47:58.320 --> 00:48:00.880
I think it's disgusting that he wants this.
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:04.320
It sounds like he's addicted to sex or he's obsessive.
00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:06.639
And they actually start projecting a lot.
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:10.480
And that causes more of a rift in the relationship than the kink itself.
00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:10.960
Okay.
00:48:11.760 --> 00:48:15.440
So I work with the wives to think, like, okay, why do you feel this way?
00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:17.599
Is it society or do you feel this?
00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:20.320
Like, okay, your marriage is important to you.
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:23.679
Do you want to try this or do you is this a hard no?
00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:33.039
And we talk about limits and boundaries, but I have a disproportionate number of clients who come to me where the husband is submissive in some way or wants to play a submissive role.
00:48:33.199 --> 00:48:36.480
They want to put their wife to play the more dominant role.
00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:50.960
And it's causing such issues that I actually launched a free women's dominant group for women who want to learn to be more dominant, are scared of it, are kind of disgusted by it, but want to learn more.
00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:59.280
Where I bring different dominant women together to help teach these non-dominant women how to do it in their relationship.
00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:01.199
And I don't allow pros into the group.
00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:08.000
This isn't about becoming a professional, it's about experiencing it in your relationship because I just was seeing it so much.
00:49:08.079 --> 00:49:15.840
And I was like, women need extra support, whether that's wrapping their heads around it or just building the confidence to play the dominant role.
00:49:16.159 --> 00:49:19.599
Yeah, I was gonna ask, where where's the bigger challenge in that?
00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:21.920
Is it getting them to wrap their heads around it?
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:28.000
Because I think for me, you know, I'm thinking, if I was in that situation, I'm not married anymore.
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:33.840
But if I if I was in that situation, my answer would probably be, no, I want you to take charge.
00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:37.599
I take charge, you know, with the house, with everything else.
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:41.119
So I think for me, the bigger challenge would be to accept it.
00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:44.559
Once I accepted it, yeah, I'm a good student.
00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:51.119
I can I can watch, listen, and learn and understand the motive behind the desire.
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:55.760
But it's really getting over that hump of why is this even necessary?
00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:58.559
For me, just no, no, no.
00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:04.559
You just unlocked some other huge part of sessions that I don't actually talk about, my client sessions.
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:11.119
A large reason women don't want to take charge is because they're like, I'm already carrying so much of that.
00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:13.039
Are you freaking kidding me?
00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:14.800
Now you want me to add this?
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:20.000
And so much of it is working out with the husband.
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:22.239
Hey, you gotta be picking up the slack here.
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:24.719
What do you what do you mean you didn't take out the garbage?
00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:26.480
What do you mean the lawn is in mode?
00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:34.880
Like, you need to be holding up your end of the bargain or else they're going to feel your bedroom life is an extension of your home, your non-bedroom life.
00:50:35.039 --> 00:50:37.039
Yes, and that is not a turn-on.
00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:46.079
So getting people to balance out their life outside of the kink and this is a huge part of it.
00:50:46.159 --> 00:50:50.800
So, yes, the acceptance, but also the life balance is important.
00:50:50.960 --> 00:51:12.480
And that that is a huge part of so many of my sessions of like getting this submissive husband, getting him to start paying attention to the parts of his life that he's been ignoring that make it harder for the wife to step up and be dominant in the bedroom as well as all the ways she's dominant in the home.
00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:13.119
Right.
00:51:13.360 --> 00:51:13.599
Right.
00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:14.000
Yeah.
00:51:14.159 --> 00:51:15.440
So you you nailed it.
00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:36.880
Like yeah, you put yourself right where most of my clients are, where they love their partner, they want their partner to be happy, they they want to make sure that, you know, when you choose a monogamous relationship, and I'm in a monogamous relationship, you have to recognize you're choosing each other, but you can't force your partner to be celibate.
00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:38.719
And I'm a firm believer of this.
00:51:38.960 --> 00:51:44.960
Sex is not a need, but then it becomes this question of but can you force someone to be celibate if you don't want sex?
00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:49.039
Can you force them to turn this part of themselves off because you don't want to do it?
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:56.320
Or are you willing to try to see and make sure it's something you can't do before giving up on it completely?
00:51:56.639 --> 00:51:59.360
So, where do you see yourself going with this?
00:51:59.519 --> 00:52:01.440
What's next for you?
00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:03.199
Great question.
00:52:03.440 --> 00:52:08.400
I would love to make this more mainstream, this type of relationship dynamic.
00:52:08.559 --> 00:52:14.559
I think that a lot of people talk about high sex drive versus low sex drive, and not enough people are talking about mismatched desire.
00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:19.760
So, what's next for me is specifically talking about this at scale.
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:21.360
I am trying to get on podcasts.
00:52:21.440 --> 00:52:24.159
I'm trying to talk to therapy, couples therapy groups.
00:52:24.320 --> 00:52:24.400
Yeah.
00:52:25.039 --> 00:52:34.800
So if there are any therapists who want me to come speak to all of their couples, therapists about kink and fetish and desire, I have a lot to add to the conversation because I've lived it.
00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:38.000
It's not just a clinical look at it.
00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:52.800
I'm still on that mission to destigmatize it and just make people feel less alone because I want, if your husband comes to you and says, I'm submissive, I want to explore this, I don't want you to feel alone and dirty and like there's something wrong with him or you for indulging it.
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:55.519
Like, let's normalize this, let's get this conversation out.
00:52:55.679 --> 00:53:03.199
You don't need to tell your friends at brunch on Saturday, but I don't want you feeling like there's something wrong with your relationship because you're doing it.
00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:04.239
And that's right.
00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:07.440
So my goal is to figure out how to do this at scale.
00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:14.159
I have online classes, I do, I give a lot of free information out on Instagram.
00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:21.119
I'm trying to do it myself every day, but doing it at scale and figuring out the best way to do that is my aim.
00:53:21.199 --> 00:53:25.840
And that's why I have the podcast too, because it's about getting the message out to as many places as possible.
00:53:26.079 --> 00:53:26.480
Yeah.
00:53:26.719 --> 00:53:29.920
So now, where can folks find you online?
00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:37.679
I would say start with if you are exploring kink and want to talk to your partner about it, download that free guide.
00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:41.199
And you can find that on my website at amandadames.com.
00:53:41.440 --> 00:53:47.840
If you scroll to the bottom, you can just fill out your email and get it sent straight to your email, that guide.
00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:54.000
If you want some more of that free information, go to the underscore kink consultant on Instagram.
00:53:54.239 --> 00:54:02.000
If you just are curious about kink in general, please check out my podcast, the Kink Consultant Podcast, where we go deep on every type of kink.
00:54:02.079 --> 00:54:10.400
I invite a bunch of guests on who explore different kinks and live different lifestyles with their partners so you can hear more about what it's actually like to live this life.
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:11.840
And yeah, I think that's it.
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:16.000
Website, podcast, you can book consults on my website and Instagram.
00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:17.679
Yeah, those are all my places.
00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:18.559
Awesome.
00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:23.039
Well, Amanda, thank you so much for all of your time.
00:54:23.199 --> 00:54:25.840
I'm fascinated by what you've done.
00:54:26.239 --> 00:54:31.280
And I am very hopeful for what you're doing to help couples.
00:54:31.519 --> 00:54:36.079
I know in the the trying times that we live in, if it's not one thing, it's another.
00:54:36.320 --> 00:54:40.800
And, you know, it all kind of spills into the bedroom eventually.
00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:55.840
So to have a clearer understanding in an arena that is supposed to take away some of the stress and uck of day-to-day living is so important for relationship health.
00:54:56.079 --> 00:55:01.920
So thank you for what you do, and thank you for such a fun and interesting conversation.
00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:04.960
Well, thank you so much for taking a chance and having me on.
00:55:05.039 --> 00:55:08.239
I really appreciate it, and I've had so much fun chatting.
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:18.559
Wow, that was more like a Kink 101 class.
00:55:19.039 --> 00:55:30.559
Amanda was so much fun to have a conversation with, and she was willing to entertain any types of questions to help destigmatize kink and educate folks.
00:55:31.039 --> 00:55:36.400
There are two things that stuck out to me about my conversation with her.
00:55:36.880 --> 00:55:40.800
One was my own personal interpretation of kink.
00:55:41.119 --> 00:55:47.360
It's very stereotypical, bondage, whips, leather, discipline, etc.
00:55:48.000 --> 00:56:05.440
And how she defined the spectrum or levels of kink, it really made me question why I thought of it only in one way, and that I didn't see behavior as mild all the way up to more intense.
00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:09.599
So that was a really interesting revelation for me.
00:56:09.840 --> 00:56:12.559
Let me know what you got out of our conversation.
00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:25.280
Another thing that stuck out was how much care and compassion she has for her clients for helping couples work through exploring kink in their relationships.
00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:32.559
Her goal is for both partners to be seen, heard, and feel stronger in their relationship.
00:56:32.639 --> 00:56:34.639
And I really admire that.
00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:39.840
So I know we barely scratched the surface on what Amanda could share.
00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:45.039
So jump down to the show notes to check out her podcast, The Kink Consultant.
00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:51.039
Visit her website and get her free guide to Kink, and follow her on Instagram.
00:56:51.519 --> 00:56:56.079
And while you're down in those show notes, don't forget to connect with me.
00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:59.199
All my socials are listed there as well.
00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:04.960
As always, thanks for listening, and I'll see you in two weeks.