Messages From The Front 2: Advice For College Students

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Stay tuned to the Ask Dr Ross podcast.
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It's created to give you info to succeed at college.
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Our hosts are highly qualified.
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Dr Catherine Ross is a member of the University of Texas Systems Academy of Distinguished Teachers.
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She's also a popular professor of 19th century English literature.
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Her co-host and multimedia editor, nathan Witt, provides a student perspective.
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Ask Dr Ross is a community service of the University of Texas at Tanya.
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Hi, I'm Catherine Ross, and this is a podcast for parents, students in school who are thinking about going to college, college students who are already here, adults who are thinking of maybe going back to college and really anyone who wants to know more about what life in colleges and universities is like today in the US of A.
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I'm here with my friend, nathan Witt, who's a student here.
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If you'd like to ask Dr Ross a question, you can email us at ADRquestionsatgmailcom.
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Today we're going to talk to a professor and a student more about what the college experience is like, some do's and don'ts, some suggestions and ideas.
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Yeah, and we're excited to have our panel today.
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One of them is professor of instruction Vanessa Joyner, my friend and pal.
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She is in the department of communication Before she came to UT Tyler.
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For 20 years she was a professional graphic designer AT&T and she still does contract work for award-winning graphic design.
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Our other guest is Ms Elena Gonzalez, also one of my favorite people, a student in the English department.
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She's an English major but she's got two other minors.
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She's doing language and technology, and which does a little bit about how she knows how to organize her time and be a good student.
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Another bit of information about why she's such a good student and why she's going to give us such good advice is she's in the Honors College and she's also been selected to be an Archer Fellow in the program that sends students to go to Washington DC to learn about government and all the stuff they do in Washington DC.
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I've also been just informed that she's otherwise involved.
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She's on the leadership team of our student newspaper, the Talon, and it's even served in student government.
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So this is a young woman who knows how to handle a complicated, busy schedule and still make A's in her classes.
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We're going to ask them today about their top dos and don'ts for succeeding in college, but not just getting good grades in college, but also being happy and getting the best out of the experience, because we all know that college is a lot more than obtaining some learning skills and some knowledge.
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We'll let you start out, professor Joyner.
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Okay, I'll start out with they should have a goal, and if you have too many goals, narrow it down.
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I would try to make it related goals, in other words, not choose to be an architect and an English major.
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Or be a perfect A plus student.
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So that's what I'm curious about, vanessa what are the goals you're thinking of?
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A long-term goal as a profession, or a short-term goal to pass Dr Ross's English class?
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To me, start with the long-term goal, because in trying not to get too caught up into the details, because as you go along you're going to find out what you like and what you do not like For some people it puts too much pressure on them and I've seen students who have anxiety and I think it is because sometimes they're looking at different people, they're wanting to be different people instead of just following their own game plan.
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For me, I was just an artist.
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I loved it and anything related to it.
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I liked it Well you remind me of a line that someone told me once which was actually a student who said it which was comparison is a thief of joy, and so that's a good thing to remember too.
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So, elena, did you start out with a goal, or have you only developed one over the time that you've been here?
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It definitely was a process to develop a goal.
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When I came into college, I was majoring in marketing and I didn't really know what I wanted to do with that, and after switching the English, I started to narrow it down more, and so now, whenever I choose my activities and the things that I do, I try to structure it around the skills that I can use to succeed as an English major and in a career down the line.
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Yes.
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So I want to ask Professor Joyner, in your experience, what are good strategies you've seen to coming up with that goal?
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Because I think that's a lot of question marks for students when they first come in is okay.
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How do I even figure out what my goal is?
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How do I figure out what that long term idea is?
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Well, the next thing on my list was having good counseling, Starting out with your high school counselors.
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Another thing to look at are people in your family who have done what you want to do.
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What about the college graduates that are in your family?
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Have you talked to them?
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It doesn't mean you have to follow their path, but listen to them, Take away what you can.
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And because I had there's too much to go into with nine siblings, but I had a sister two years older than me but I was too competitive with her, so I knew I had to go to a different college.
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Plus, she was analytical math and I was artistic.
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So it's just a matter of sitting back and listening to your counselors.
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Hopefully, have a counselor who is plugged into you, who will listen to you and what it is you want to do and then direct you.
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And that's super important.
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That's something that we talked about when we talked about counseling, that I think a lot of students don't realize how important it is that your counselor is plugged into you, like you said, like really knows.
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If you only show up for those little short meetings and you're trying to get out the door as quick as possible, then they can't advise you in the best way.
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So I think that's, I think that's great.
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We had an episode before.
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We talked to some of the academic advisors, and they're the ones who have to get you through, but they also want to get you through doing what you're good at, and it sounds like you started out already.
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You were already good at art before you ever set your foot in the door of any college, right?
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So you had a goal built in.
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Sounds like you started out not sure what you wanted to do yet, and that's often what happens with college students, isn't it?
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They come in and they know I've got to go to college and by the time I'm finished I've got to be able to have something to do that will bring some income.
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But most of you, many of you don't know, and so Finding a goal for you, professor Joyner, was a little easier, because you already knew something about your talents.
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Finding a goal for you was partly a matter of testing the waters of different classes, I bet.
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So how'd you get from a marketing to an English?
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major.
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Funny, I ended up switching after the first semester because I took several classes where the assignments were heavily writing based, and I found that I did a lot better in writing based classes than I did in, maybe, data entry or things that are just purely analytical and numerical, and my professors would tell me oh, you're really good at whatever subject it is history, economics and I'd be thinking to myself I'm really not, though, and then I realized I was just good at writing, and so I decided to switch to English and pursue writing further.
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Well, a lot of times, students will come to college and they are like you.
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They're good at a lot of things, but it's a choice between what you're good at and what you're good at and you enjoy doing.
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Did you have a first thing that was on the top of your list?
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Yes, top of my list was definitely.
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Scheduling your time is something you have to do.
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Certainly.
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And given your schedule, that's been absolutely essential, hasn't it?
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For me, it was starting to write it down as soon as I find out, whether it's assignments or work scheduling, event scheduling or even just something fun that you want to do.
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Just put it in your calendar, because later, whenever someone asks you to do something and you're looking on your calendar, you want to see everything so you can know when to say yes or no.
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And also, I found out that for me, I set a bunch of alarms to remind myself when to go to class, when to go to work, when to go to certain things, and so I have to keep that updated every day.
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But it's totally worth it, because nothing is more attention catching than your little alarm going off and you saying what am I supposed to be doing?
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And you leave the little note and where you're supposed to be.
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So do you have a paper calendar and a phone calendar, or just on your phone and your computer?
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I mostly keep it on my phone just because I carry it with me everywhere, but I do have a paper calendar at home.
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That's not quite as comprehensive, but I do like to keep it as well.
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I started keeping a calendar in college about only my senior year, which one of my friends had one of those neat little calendars that had the pages and the hours and all that stuff.
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And I've found that ever since then I've always had one.
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Do you have a calendar, Dr Joyner?
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Both, Both.
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Yeah, there you go.
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What about you, Nathan?
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Did you ever use one?
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Yeah, so you're referring to the daily planner that has the.
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I've done that for a long time.
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I actually built my own just because I'm a little dysfunctional.
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That's the only thing I was going to ask you.
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It's definitely the strength that I need is being better at scheduling.
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I wanted to ask you, because you have so much you're involved with what is prioritizing or coming up with your rank of priority what does that look like?
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Because obviously you're going to have schedule conflicts with everything you do.
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How do you sort that out?
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What does that look like?
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Well, this year it was trial by fire, because whenever I started, this is the first year I really got involved on campus and it was really difficult to figure out how to schedule all those moving parts together, and so for me, school is, 99% of the time, the priority.
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So I'm going to make it the class, I'm going to make it to my things that I need to do for school, and then after that I just take it on a situational basis to see is this something I can miss?
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I try to communicate with my supervisors, professors whatever I'm missing to see if it's something I really need to be at or if it's something that I can make up later.
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For the most part, whenever I do choose my involvements, I really try to choose them in a way that they don't overlap at all, which also is very difficult because things move around, but really it's just about each time reaching out, seeing what's going on and how you can either make up the thing you're missing or if you even need to be there.
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So you're talking there about managing a whole life, not just classroom, but the talent, the student government, oh yeah.
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The family and that it's boring a little bit harder on how you keep up.
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What is the best advice you can give about how to keep up with your class work?
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Okay, yeah, so for classes, that's, as I said, my priority, and so that's the first thing that I'm going to make sure that I have done or have time to do so for me, I know it's a little bit different than non-English majors because I have four English classes, so it's mostly reading at this point.
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But I first of all make sure that I know what all of my assignments are.
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I have my syllabus for each class printed out and I keep it with me in my notebook, and I just carry around one notebook with a bunch of different tabs that I use for all my classes, and I check that often, and so I like to plan ahead, make sure I have time to get all of my work done, and if I don't, then something else needs to be taken out or missed, and then after that you just have to do it, even when it's really hard.
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This is also on my list, but I said, another do is to learn how you learn, because everyone learns differently, and for me, I only found out this second semester of junior year that I will get through my reading if I have an audio recording of the reading, and if I don't, then I'm going to have a really hard time getting through it and it's going to be different for everyone.
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Some people take better notes on paper, some people learn at once, some people want to spread it out over burst of energy, and it's really just finding out what you need to do.
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Well, I'd like to add a couple things to that too.
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One thing I always ask my students to do in English class is worth reading and I think I asked your class to do it too is to get out one of the books that you've been assigned to read and time yourself reading two pages.
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Did you ever do that?
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Oh well, maybe you should have, because I figured it out for myself is how long does it take me to read a certain number of pages?
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I'll say, ok, I've got to read 30 pages, and I know it's going to take me how many minutes, and especially if you're doing a lot of reading that way.
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The other thing is, sometimes professors will give you a long term assignment and it's just due at the end of the semester, and sometimes they'll say, ok, in two weeks I want the bibliography, in two more weeks I want the outline, in two more weeks I want a draft.
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But not everybody does that, and so that's another real good thing is to set yourself those that kind of fits with you were saying, vanessa, about goals.
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Is setting up some goals, learning how you learn?
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I want you to talk about that a little bit more.
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You and I share this.
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I like to listen to a book too, but how'd you figure that out?
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I?
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don't remember I what book was it?
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It might have been Persuasion.
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Actually, I think it was whenever we were reading Persuasion.
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And some of the more modern books don't have free audios just because they're copyrighted or they're specific to apps or whatever.
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But the older books, like Jane Austen or Mary Shelley, they're going to have free readings on YouTube and you can adjust the speed and it's really nice and that's the first book.
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I remember pulling up and specifically being like I'm going to use the audio the whole time and I got through that book.
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And I'll admit, in some of my past classes I didn't get completely through all of my books and this year was the first time that I felt like I could and it was really nice to have that.
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I have to admit that I never finished Moby Dick as an undergraduate.
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Oh no.
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Never finished it, but in those days we didn't have didn't have so many audiobooks but.
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But you're saying that you do the audiobook, but you also read the book, right?
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Yeah, at the same time yeah.
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Oh, along with it, huh and.
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I will.
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I want to pinpoint that thing you said about adjusting the speed.
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A part of learning how you learn that's been a big thing for me is with all the videos.
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Professor Joiner, you're one of them who sends video instructions and I have figured out that I can pay attention if I turn the speed up still and I can follow still the videos and can maybe get through them a little faster if I'll turn up that speed a little bit.
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So that's a little, I feel, like life hack for college students.
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It's not just your generation that does that, I do it too.
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You turn up the speed, oh yeah.
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I do Good, I don't know how fast you turn it up Well.
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So so we've got a couple really good bits of best advice.
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Let's hear some more.
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You want to tell us something, professor Joiner?
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Game work experience, oh, and preferably related work experience.
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But if life necessitates that you have a variety of jobs, make the most of it.
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There's even for something as simple I should say as simple.
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I waitressed for a while.
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So did I, and one of the biggest things I learned from being a waitress is making the most of my time.
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In other words, as a waitress I've worked at places like Fridays and even Denny's and Los Amigos, etc.
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But when I went to the back, we always learned to save steps.
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So when you go to the back, if there's several tables you're waiting on, you take care of as much as you can with those tables while you're at the back, to save steps the same principle.
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I've learned to use that in life.
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Yeah safe.
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And in academics in school, okay, as a graphic designer, save steps.
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So even back in the day when we didn't have the computers and I had stacks of this is how my desk look stacks of jobs you look for what can I do quick?
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What can I do to reduce the workload?
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So, in other words, don't beat yourself up that I'm not doing something related to my field as a student.
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Just know that is going to help you one day and I guess, so you can have peace.
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I've been a security guard as a student.
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A lot of jobs, a driver, a delivery driver I've done a lot.
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So anyway, that was my other to do and, if the students know me, I'm always looking out for jobs.
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As a teacher, I'm always also put out emails, so, and so is hiring.
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So and so is hiring.
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Come to me if you're interested.
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So, would you say, for incoming students, professors would be a good place to try to find connections to relevant work experience.
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I'm always doing it, probably to an extreme.
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Well, that's interesting.
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You brought it up, because that's certainly something a lot of us have been asked to do more recently is to try to find internships for students, and we have these career offices that we talked about before, and that's part of their job is to help us find them, too, because we realize that, although most of us academics were trained to teach a subject and don't know much about job searches and all that sort of stuff, that, in fact, that's what you all need to get going on.
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The thing that you said, though, about working smart if you're back in the back of the kitchen and there's three different tables, you need to set up in the same way.
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I know, for example, when I'm doing my research and I bet you probably do this too I may have two different projects I'm working on.
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I go to the library and I do the research for the, the education book, and then I do the research for the Romantics book, and so that's a way of working smart.
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Have you figured out to do that, too, in your classes, or if you got any of these work hacks?
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I definitely agree.
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It's good to separate projects.
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Whenever I save articles on my the little library page where you can find the research articles, I put them in tabs as well by my projects, because they're a lot easier to find that way and work on it one time and not get distracted with other ones.
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In addition to that, I also worked in food service and retail from when I was 16 and I agree it's a very formative experience and I think more people should experience it because it teaches you a lot of life skills that you can use in every area.
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Like I feel like I wouldn't be the same person if I hadn't done those things, because if you think I'm shy now, you should have seen me when I was 15, before I started a job at firehouse subs, and learn how to interact with people.
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Yeah, that's real.
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Yeah, it is you have to.
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A million people you got to interact with every day.
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Well, and part of learning and part of classroom work is interacting with your classmates yeah since COVID, a lot of students have far fewer communication skills and they're much more comfortable communicating on their phone than they are with the people sitting right next to them.
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Have you experienced that?
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Yes, and I'm like you.
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I'm so glad I had opportunities to do jobs where I had to interact with people because, as you too, in college I was very shy, so much so that when someone saw me later in life, this person said to me you talk, you used to not talk.
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I was very shy, scared of the world, even though I had nine siblings.
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I could talk to them, but outside of the nine and I was like an athlete, but I was in my zone as an athlete, so I ran and I was competitive as an athlete but and everybody knew me, but I was very shy.
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But I tell students you need to talk to people to succeed.
00:20:42.977 --> 00:20:45.881
You cannot be an island.
00:20:45.881 --> 00:20:56.193
You need customers, you have to learn how to interact, and I always talk to my students about psychology too, and that graphic design is a lot of psychology.
00:20:56.193 --> 00:21:00.497
You have to almost read the minds of those talking to you.
00:21:00.625 --> 00:21:06.277
I was watching a program the other day and it was a teacher at a local public school.
00:21:06.277 --> 00:21:14.146
Actually, I'm not sure where it was, it might have been a national thing but the teacher said okay, I want everybody to turn off your phones.
00:21:14.146 --> 00:21:17.855
Put your phones down and just talk to everybody in the room.
00:21:17.855 --> 00:21:23.587
I talked to a couple people in the room and these were high school kids and some of them did it right away.
00:21:23.587 --> 00:21:33.185
And he said but there was a bunch who just froze, they just didn't know how to do it and he had to go around and help them and prompt them.
00:21:33.185 --> 00:21:36.295
And I've noticed that in my classes too.
00:21:36.605 --> 00:21:59.977
I think that I think students don't realize a lot of times how much power they have over the experience of the class, and I also think that they don't realize sometimes when you have those groups that form for whatever reason I think most of the time it's not ever intentional, it's just somehow it's a perfect storm of chaotic energy and they start to disrupt the class.
00:21:59.977 --> 00:22:04.355
You all don't know this, but I took some time off of college and now I've come back.
00:22:04.355 --> 00:22:18.144
I'm a different student, but my first run I was one of those kids who, if I felt like we had three or four people in the class that would disrupt, like that was my favorite thing and hey, we're going to ruin this class and we're going to be a productive.
00:22:18.144 --> 00:22:19.130
I know you're making a face.
00:22:19.385 --> 00:22:20.328
Oh, my God.
00:22:21.884 --> 00:22:40.727
I know I was a bad student, and what you don't realize when you're one of those type of students and that's who I'm hoping, maybe I'm speaking to, or maybe I'm speaking to a parent of one of those type of students is you are paying for this class, you're paying for this experience and if you rob yourself of it, you still get the grade, a passing grade.
00:22:40.727 --> 00:22:43.895
Squeeze it out, but you don't learn anything in the class.
00:22:43.895 --> 00:22:46.953
You've just stolen information from yourself.
00:22:46.953 --> 00:22:47.715
You've not heard.
00:22:47.715 --> 00:22:48.840
Maybe you've heard other classmates.
00:22:48.881 --> 00:22:49.663
You have heard others.
00:22:49.663 --> 00:22:52.353
You've hurt those students and I'll tell you what you do hurt the teacher.
00:22:52.353 --> 00:22:55.673
It really does disrupt the teacher's work.
00:22:55.673 --> 00:23:02.308
The thing I want to say when you talk about like that, talk like that is those are kids who probably don't belong in college.
00:23:02.308 --> 00:23:02.470
Yet.
00:23:02.470 --> 00:23:07.809
If you are skeptical of college and there's a lot of that- there's nothing wrong with a break.
00:23:07.984 --> 00:23:08.808
I agree with you on that.
00:23:09.184 --> 00:23:18.128
But here's what I was going to say is that there's a lot of folks out there and part of the reason why we're doing this podcast is a lot of people have a real negative attitude about higher education right now.
00:23:18.128 --> 00:23:21.212
Cost too much, what's the return of my investment?
00:23:21.212 --> 00:23:22.990
There's all that stuff going on.
00:23:22.990 --> 00:23:33.656
What I think it's important to recognize is that if you're that negative about going, save your time and your money and wait and do like Nathan did step out for a while.
00:23:33.656 --> 00:23:40.426
There's no shame in that and typically what I get when I get a student who's come back after being away for a while guess what?
00:23:40.426 --> 00:23:42.951
They are 10 times more efficient.
00:23:42.951 --> 00:23:44.770
They know better what they want.
00:23:44.770 --> 00:23:57.491
They've got a goal, like you said, and they know better that it's not so much better out there than they thought and they've come to realize that there's huge advantages to college education and they're not just doing because their parents expected them to do it.
00:23:57.491 --> 00:24:04.036
A lot of times they have a little more just self-control and that's the time to come.
00:24:05.684 --> 00:24:20.637
I do want to say another thing about having that negativity in your class is that I feel like I find it's a contagion, absolutely, and it's a contagion that isn't happy with keeping it to themselves.
00:24:20.637 --> 00:24:28.942
They have to spread it In any opportunity they can, to spread the negative things about.
00:24:28.942 --> 00:24:30.368
A lot of times about the teacher.
00:24:30.368 --> 00:24:46.429
I've had people who did not like me from week two and I knew the semester was going to be rough, the things that were said and the attitude, and when it's like that there's nothing you could have done.
00:24:46.429 --> 00:24:49.973
That person just has you in their crosshairs.
00:24:49.973 --> 00:24:53.815
But can I add just a couple more things to do before we go on?
00:24:53.815 --> 00:25:00.516
I do think it's important to try to find a circle of friends and also to be involved.
00:25:02.565 --> 00:25:04.049
You can talk about that, can't you?
00:25:04.049 --> 00:25:12.153
That was also on my list to get involved and that looks different for everyone, I realized, because everyone has a different situation, everyone has a different schedule.
00:25:12.153 --> 00:25:28.613
But as far as you can and as much as you can, I definitely see the value in getting involved, because my first year of college was during COVID and I obviously didn't have a lot of opportunities to get involved and I joined honors late.
00:25:28.613 --> 00:25:32.027
I joined organizations later, in those first two years.
00:25:32.027 --> 00:25:43.734
I don't think we're quite as meaningful as this year was, and whenever you do get involved, you learn how to say yes and how to self-advocate, which is one of the most important things you can learn from higher education, in my opinion.
00:25:43.734 --> 00:25:51.633
So, yeah, definitely getting involved, and it also strengthens what you're trying to do and how you're trying to further your career and your interest.
00:25:52.565 --> 00:25:58.365
One of the things I always say to students one of the first days of class is I want you to participate, I want you to raise your hand, I want you to talk.
00:25:58.365 --> 00:26:00.089
A lot of them, oh, don't make me do that.
00:26:00.089 --> 00:26:19.067
They're so afraid, and I point out to them that, basically, by not raising your hand, not adding your voice, you're teaching everybody that you don't think you matter, that you don't count, and you're not learning how, for example, to ask for a raise one day when you need to ask for a raise, and so I love that.
00:26:19.067 --> 00:26:37.476
You said self-advocate is an important term, and I think that's a big part of what college is too is that they're learning how to go from being their parents' kid to being their own human, their own person, and teaching them, giving them experiences so they can start to test that out.
00:26:37.476 --> 00:26:46.682
And so let's hear a little bit about from both of you students that are here what are some of the moments where you started saying it's me or nobody.
00:26:48.326 --> 00:26:58.967
Well, for me it was definitely this year, during student government elections, when I had the campaign for my spot and like put up a little poster with my picture on it, I was terrified.
00:26:58.967 --> 00:27:01.992
I was like, oh my goodness, this is so embarrassing.
00:27:01.992 --> 00:27:05.358
I had to call my friend while I was putting the posters up because I was so embarrassed.
00:27:05.358 --> 00:27:10.994
I was like, oh my goodness, like I just feel so conceited and self-inflated.
00:27:10.994 --> 00:27:16.545
And then I reflected on it after elections and I did get the position and I was like that's what you have to do.
00:27:16.545 --> 00:27:29.545
You have to put yourself out there, and it's not conceited to do so, it's putting yourself out there and it's just part of life and part of being an adult, part of getting further in your career and academic life.
00:27:29.545 --> 00:27:34.135
It is really hard, but it's something you have to learn to do and it does have its benefits for sure.
00:27:34.766 --> 00:27:41.565
I think, a good thing to do, and actually we learned this from Katherine Martinez, who talked to us about how to help you get your students into college.
00:27:41.565 --> 00:27:45.894
She said make a list of all the things your kids do while they're growing up.
00:27:45.894 --> 00:27:48.499
That can be put on an application.
00:27:48.499 --> 00:27:57.472
But in a sense, students in college I ran for, and successfully won, a student government position that list of skills that I use.
00:27:57.472 --> 00:28:01.565
They can dip back in that list and say I've learned how to follow through.
00:28:01.565 --> 00:28:04.565
I have learned how to look for details that matter.
00:28:04.565 --> 00:28:11.715
If students will start to keep track of the actual things they have accomplished every semester.
00:28:11.776 --> 00:28:13.999
It's amazing how much stuff you do that you forget.
00:28:13.999 --> 00:28:18.470
You did Along with that calendar that you keep.
00:28:18.470 --> 00:28:27.520
If you could learn to keep yourself some sort of a folder of all the stuff you do, then you can use that when you're starting to apply for jobs.
00:28:27.520 --> 00:28:28.527
It really helps.
00:28:28.527 --> 00:28:30.852
And we've talked a lot about jobs this time.
00:28:30.852 --> 00:28:36.484
Instead of I thought we'd be talking about academic excellence and what to do for classwork and getting A's and all that sort of stuff.
00:28:36.484 --> 00:28:38.545
But ultimately that's where you're heading, isn't it?
00:28:38.545 --> 00:28:43.317
It's to a life afterwards where you take all these skills that you've created.
00:28:43.317 --> 00:28:45.612
So how are we doing on our list?
00:28:45.612 --> 00:28:48.180
Do we have some more to-dos that we haven't covered?
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:51.090
Two more do's you got all your do's, huh.
00:28:51.753 --> 00:28:53.641
Okay, you want to enumerate them one more time.
00:28:53.681 --> 00:29:00.545
Just one, two, three, real quick, sure, my do's were schedule your time, learn how you learn best and get involved.
00:29:01.165 --> 00:29:05.115
Okay, and your three do's, professor Joyner, have a goal.
00:29:05.798 --> 00:29:07.161
Listen to your counselors.
00:29:07.161 --> 00:29:08.565
Develop good study habits.
00:29:09.592 --> 00:29:11.565
Okay, we haven't really talked about good study habits yet, have we?
00:29:12.506 --> 00:29:22.421
I think Alana had some good points as far as how she organized her life so that she took care of the most important things first.
00:29:22.987 --> 00:29:49.278
Thinking in terms of prioritizing doing the hardest stuff first A lot of times people do the easy stuff we said that and then also just getting sleep eating well, getting exercise If you're not physically in good shape not necessarily the world's greatest power lift or anything like that but just breathing and you're not losing too much sleep, then you're going to be a better student.
00:29:49.278 --> 00:29:51.651
Did you have any challenges with any of that?
00:29:51.651 --> 00:29:53.435
Do you have sleepless nights sometimes?
00:29:53.435 --> 00:29:53.925
Oh yeah.
00:29:54.868 --> 00:29:57.076
I definitely had challenges with all of it.
00:29:57.076 --> 00:30:01.545
Actually, eating healthy is hard in college because you have to do it yourself.
00:30:01.545 --> 00:30:10.233
Getting sleep is hard because you do want to go out and stay up late and talk to your friends all night, or even just stay on TikTok or whatever.
00:30:10.846 --> 00:30:14.017
Oh, boy TikTok is the world's biggest time loop time waster.
00:30:14.017 --> 00:30:15.500
And boy, do I do it too.
00:30:15.500 --> 00:30:16.565
You're on TikTok now.
00:30:17.366 --> 00:30:22.438
Oh, I've been on it and off it and on it and off it, and on it and off it all it's terrible.
00:30:22.438 --> 00:30:24.565
They call it doom scrolling.
00:30:24.565 --> 00:30:26.565
There you go doom scrolling.
00:30:27.166 --> 00:30:34.653
Well, the last time I went on it one of my students and then I discovered two of my students and three of my students have TikTok accounts, or whatever.
00:30:34.653 --> 00:30:36.247
Sure, they all do, oh my God.
00:30:36.247 --> 00:30:43.527
And then I had to start seeing what my students do in their free time and I went you don't want to see that, I didn't want to see it, but anyway.
00:30:43.527 --> 00:30:45.833
So we've got all of our do's down.
00:30:45.833 --> 00:30:48.628
What are some of the big don'ts, professor?
00:30:49.471 --> 00:30:55.173
Joyner, Starting with goals, not having a goal not having a purpose.
00:30:55.173 --> 00:30:56.917
It will just land you in trouble.
00:30:56.917 --> 00:31:12.498
You're going to sizzle out very quickly, and especially for when you're working on your masters, you must have a goal, because a lot of that time what happens is up to you.
00:31:12.498 --> 00:31:25.897
There's not as much structure At least it was not for me and so it all comes from the heart, and then in those down times it's that goal that keeps me going.
00:31:26.946 --> 00:31:33.314
The thing I was thinking of when you were talking about that is, even within every class, you need to know what you're trying to study.
00:31:33.314 --> 00:31:38.565
A lot of times, I think, students get assignments and they don't really know what is the purpose of this.
00:31:38.565 --> 00:31:44.565
How am I supposed to read this chapter in Persuasion by Jane Austen, or what am I supposed to look for?
00:31:44.565 --> 00:31:51.545
And so, if you can either figure that out on your own or get the professor, ask the professor what am I looking for?
00:31:51.545 --> 00:32:01.317
Or you know how, I give you those class preparation assignments to try to guide you, but a lot of times students just don't know why they're doing what they're being asked to do.
00:32:02.126 --> 00:32:03.291
Like what they're getting out of it.
00:32:03.585 --> 00:32:04.386
Well what they're getting out of it.
00:32:04.386 --> 00:32:06.753
But sometimes, just what am I supposed to do with this poem?
00:32:06.753 --> 00:32:09.472
What am I supposed to do with this history chapter?
00:32:09.472 --> 00:32:11.010
Where is it heading me?
00:32:11.010 --> 00:32:13.492
How does it connect to what I've studied before?
00:32:13.492 --> 00:32:15.432
What do you want me to get out of it?
00:32:15.432 --> 00:32:18.093
And so, on the one hand, that's on us faculty.
00:32:18.093 --> 00:32:20.525
We've got to make clear to students what you're looking for.
00:32:20.525 --> 00:32:27.565
But if you're not sure, then I say to students make your professors tell you, ask them, why am I doing this?
00:32:27.565 --> 00:32:31.848
Plytely, of course, not mean girls, but anyway.
00:32:31.848 --> 00:32:34.395
So that was your first, don't.
00:32:34.605 --> 00:32:38.174
Yes, I just believe it just leads you to the wrong places.
00:32:38.174 --> 00:32:41.193
And if a student is not clear, ask the teacher.
00:32:41.193 --> 00:32:44.873
Now I think from my classes they're learning tools.
00:32:44.873 --> 00:32:48.030
In the first class it's mainly tools.
00:32:48.030 --> 00:32:53.175
I say a construction worker before he or she goes to build a house.
00:32:53.175 --> 00:32:57.875
If they're not familiar with their tools, there's not going to be much constructing going on.
00:32:57.875 --> 00:33:12.153
I believe that students have so much available to create today, so that's why they can feel a little tedious, but for me it's collecting jewels.
00:33:12.786 --> 00:33:15.954
So what are some of the tools you're talking about in your specific field?
00:33:16.565 --> 00:33:22.565
Adobe Creative Suite application, knowing how the different applications work, how they're different.
00:33:22.565 --> 00:33:27.016
And I tell students, as you learn a new application, look at the differences.
00:33:27.016 --> 00:33:34.251
All applications are going to have something in common, but when you go to the next one, look at the differences, look at the interface differences.
00:33:34.585 --> 00:33:43.234
And if I can rabbit hole just a little bit, I know because I just took your class, professor Joyner, that you don't embrace programs like Canva.
00:33:43.234 --> 00:33:47.035
Can I ask for you to help me understand that?
00:33:47.035 --> 00:34:00.711
Because in my mind, as a student and someone who has done freelance with graphic design for three years and has used Canva and really enjoyed it as much as I've used the Adobe Suite, I don't understand why Canva can't be embraced.
00:34:00.711 --> 00:34:02.576
That's cute.
00:34:02.576 --> 00:34:05.107
Well, okay, you can laugh.
00:34:05.647 --> 00:34:06.990
You're allowed to laugh at a student.
00:34:07.070 --> 00:34:07.832
Am I allowed?
00:34:07.912 --> 00:34:10.036
Okay, if you're laughing with him, not at him.
00:34:10.275 --> 00:34:11.257
Well, you can laugh at me.
00:34:11.257 --> 00:34:11.958
I got thick skin.
00:34:12.625 --> 00:34:21.655
Well, that's the issue with graphic design or any technical field is that students are out here in the world with their hands on everything.
00:34:21.655 --> 00:34:34.117
Sure, it is not possible for an instructor to include everything in one class, and that is why the curriculum is composed of many classes.
00:34:34.117 --> 00:34:45.130
So in those other classes we will introduce some of these things like Canva that are coming in and in publication design.
00:34:45.130 --> 00:34:48.157
They've been able to design an infographic with Canva.
00:34:48.157 --> 00:34:50.291
Once again, canva is a tool.
00:34:50.572 --> 00:34:50.672
Yeah.
00:34:51.704 --> 00:35:11.485
And I do not want to base my entire class, and especially the beginning class, on Canva Because, as I tell the students, you are the people who are to design the templates on Canva, so you need to learn the tools to be designer behind the scenes.
00:35:11.485 --> 00:35:16.590
That's my goal Because I do not ignore, say, in web design.
00:35:16.590 --> 00:35:19.978
They have a part of their class called web options.
00:35:19.978 --> 00:35:34.311
It means I go out and I look at all the popular applications and the students have to look at all, know all the popular web applications, web builder applications, but they also have to know code.
00:35:34.311 --> 00:35:43.525
But in one class you cannot do all that and I find that I would rather take that class to teach students those beginning apps.
00:35:44.286 --> 00:35:45.972
And they're foundational to everything else.
00:35:46.565 --> 00:36:00.463
But you also brought up something here, which is that students are their own teachers, more and more you talked about that, elena, and I compliment you on that and I want to encourage you to do that, and that's part of our job is to keep up with that.
00:36:00.463 --> 00:36:25.434
But also, if the students understand we were talking about advice the other day a lot of times students don't realize that there's this core that you have to do and there's minors that you have to do and there's certain all these different things that the program of the university and everybody told you about that when you applied, when you went through orientation, when you pick your major, and then everybody forgets it, and so reminding them about where they're going helps a lot.
00:36:26.467 --> 00:36:29.132
So I think we're to don't for Elena.
00:36:29.132 --> 00:36:31.056
What's a college students don't do?
00:36:32.585 --> 00:36:34.452
So we already talked about don't procrastinate.
00:36:34.452 --> 00:36:39.916
I feel like that's such a cliche but it deserves an honorable mention because it's so true.
00:36:39.916 --> 00:36:50.434
I am a huge procrastinator and so I say this from experience like seriously, don't do that, because you'll have such a better time.
00:36:50.434 --> 00:36:53.253
Like you can procrastinate but you're going to pay for it.
00:36:53.253 --> 00:36:55.213
Like why would you do that to yourself?
00:36:55.213 --> 00:36:56.936
This semester is.
00:36:56.936 --> 00:37:10.947
I'm sure I've done like smaller projects in the past when I got them first, but this semester I actually worked ahead on several projects and I don't think I would have made it through the end of the semester if I hadn't Just started.
00:37:10.947 --> 00:37:30.018
You know the major essay, the major story map project, the big graphic design end, and once you start it makes it easier to keep going, because a lot of times the biggest hurdle is to just start, and once you just do that, you can just keep working on it, and if you save it till the last minute, you're just gonna find yourself in a bind.
00:37:30.018 --> 00:37:32.630
And boy do you make points with a teacher.
00:37:33.231 --> 00:37:40.809
A couple things I want to add before I go is working too much and being overly obsessed with grades.
00:37:40.809 --> 00:37:42.512
Working too much, like what way?
00:37:42.512 --> 00:37:45.137
Working too many hours outside of school.
00:37:45.137 --> 00:37:48.568
I like that, it's hard to ask of people though.
00:37:48.809 --> 00:37:53.239
I want to mention something the teacher, my example that I give my classes.
00:37:53.239 --> 00:38:04.793
Like I said, my mother had nine children and we pretty much had to pay her own way, take care of ourselves, and so I worked several jobs in college and I was constantly in flight.
00:38:04.793 --> 00:38:05.976
You could say.
00:38:05.976 --> 00:38:09.751
Well, one day, at the end of the semester, this teacher, he told me.
00:38:09.751 --> 00:38:11.074
He said I always remember him.
00:38:11.074 --> 00:38:21.224
He said you know, vanessa, you deserve an A, but I'm not giving it to you, he said, because you're not here enough.
00:38:21.224 --> 00:38:34.644
I was so heartbroken because I really liked the teacher, but it was a wake-up call Cause it wasn't fair for the students who were there, who participated, and I wasn't.
00:38:34.644 --> 00:38:38.000
I went to make sure you all heard that part.
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:38.784
Yeah, that's a good one.
00:38:38.784 --> 00:38:41.498
And another thing is being overly obsessed with grades.
00:38:42.945 --> 00:38:44.543
I told you that was gonna drive you crazy.
00:38:44.543 --> 00:39:04.644
I've had students who get so obsessed that the whole world knows, and I never brought that to my teacher's attention about my grade, because I didn't want the teacher to feel pressure to do something that maybe they shouldn't do because I need a high grade.
00:39:04.644 --> 00:39:20.644
And there was an article in a magazine called the Flame and it mentioned something about grade obsession and how grade obsession has become a problem Because the grade is finality to them and they stop looking at the process.
00:39:20.644 --> 00:39:32.570
They stop looking at the learning that's involved and that's where the focus should be, and not just on the grade.
00:39:32.570 --> 00:39:42.501
And it's really hard when you're dealing with the creative element, because the creative is full of things that are not predictable.
00:39:43.068 --> 00:39:44.644
But you have to go through the process.
00:39:44.644 --> 00:40:05.798
Your sketches may not look like the next person sitting there, your ideal may not appear to be as strong as another person, and people sensing that ambiguity they panic and they're like I'm going to get a bad grade, so they're filled with the anxiety through the entire process.
00:40:05.798 --> 00:40:07.605
That should have been enjoyable.
00:40:07.605 --> 00:40:11.625
The design process should be enjoyable.
00:40:11.625 --> 00:40:13.543
It should be fun.
00:40:13.543 --> 00:40:15.512
That's my last thoughts.
00:40:16.606 --> 00:40:21.056
Unfortunately, Professor Joyner had to leave us because she had another appointment.
00:40:22.306 --> 00:40:32.777
I tell you what I wish we could have recorded her facial expressions, Some of those silences where she was making the greatest faces I've ever seen, which I'm sure is part of the why she's such a good classroom teacher.
00:40:34.246 --> 00:40:36.052
So the last don'ts, elena.
00:40:36.052 --> 00:40:36.653
What do you have?
00:40:37.824 --> 00:40:41.936
This is also kind of cliche, but don't be afraid going in.
00:40:41.936 --> 00:40:48.644
I say that as someone who was very afraid coming into college and also is still afraid, just because I'm that kind of person.
00:40:48.644 --> 00:41:01.400
But it's so freeing whenever you stop being afraid to try new things and you realize that it's okay to do something and to not like it, or to do something and to not be the best at it.
00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:12.824
Yeah, once you can get into that pattern of being okay with trying new things, you're going to get so much farther with anything that you do because you can start learning.
00:41:12.824 --> 00:41:13.644
You have to start somewhere.
00:41:13.925 --> 00:41:14.126
Yeah.
00:41:14.684 --> 00:41:19.583
You have to start at level zero, basically to do better, and if you never put yourself out there, you're never going to learn.
00:41:20.452 --> 00:41:21.644
Well, and you're a perfect example of someone.
00:41:21.644 --> 00:41:28.635
You came in scared and shy and next thing we know you're in the Honors College and now you're going to Washington.
00:41:28.865 --> 00:41:31.554
Student government, student media yeah, doing it all.
00:41:31.925 --> 00:41:35.315
Making great grades and surprise yourself, didn't you?
00:41:35.315 --> 00:41:35.826
I?
00:41:35.865 --> 00:41:37.315
never would have seen myself here.
00:41:37.315 --> 00:41:40.583
As a freshman in college I was home like every weekend.
00:41:40.583 --> 00:41:45.644
I was always like mom, I can't do it, and she's like just keep going.
00:41:45.644 --> 00:41:57.644
And honestly, on top of that, don't be afraid to ask for help, because I know I had to ask for help, especially in the beginning, like with mental health and medical imbalances, stuff like that.
00:41:57.644 --> 00:42:01.576
Sometimes there is something else wrong and it's good to ask for help.
00:42:01.576 --> 00:42:07.338
You can ask your professors, you can ask your doctor, ask your family and friends, because that's how you're going to make it through.
00:42:07.338 --> 00:42:10.253
And once you find those things out, it does make it easier to adapt.
00:42:10.664 --> 00:42:15.543
And there's nothing shameful about asking for help, and usually faculty wants to know.
00:42:15.543 --> 00:42:26.367
So many times I'll have a student and I can tell there's something a little going on, but they're afraid to approach and when you just ask kindly, oh shit, all comes out and you go.
00:42:26.367 --> 00:42:30.644
Thank goodness for you telling me I can help you or I can direct you to the folks who can.
00:42:31.472 --> 00:42:32.625
I've got two good quotes.
00:42:32.625 --> 00:42:38.625
The first one's from my uncle and you've probably heard this one it's okay to not be okay, it's not okay to stay that way, and that's a big thing.
00:42:38.625 --> 00:42:40.748
It's like you have to realize.
00:42:40.748 --> 00:42:45.887
Everyone is freaking out, everyone, especially these days.
00:42:45.887 --> 00:42:47.132
The mental health numbers are.
00:42:47.132 --> 00:42:50.927
They're devastating, and so everyone is struggling.
00:42:51.007 --> 00:43:15.574
everyone is going through something faculty and staff as well included absolutely and your parents yeah and I wish that professor Joyner was in here because she, at the start of my class this semester, opened up mildly but opened up about the fact that she has dealt with anxiety for a lot of her life and I'm a person who has really bad anxiety, so hearing that like I automatically felt a little more connected to her.
00:43:15.574 --> 00:43:19.974
And so, yeah, you're realize your professors are humans too and they have those.
00:43:19.974 --> 00:43:36.009
But the other quote, when you're talking about just trying and not being afraid to try, my grandma was always, or still always, says the best thing you can do is stay there until the um uncomfortable becomes comfortable.
00:43:36.009 --> 00:43:43.143
And it's just like, if you're uncomfortable with putting yourself out there, just do it and it'll become comfortable after you.
00:43:43.143 --> 00:43:54.507
Just keep doing it until it comes comfortable, and it's great advice since we're quoting family, it's here, my father used to say errors of omission are far worse than errors of commission.
00:43:55.409 --> 00:43:58.498
In other words, if you never tried, you never know anything.
00:43:58.498 --> 00:44:06.922
But if you try and that's the other thing too and you've heard me say this, both of you I think that you learn more from making a mistake than you do from being perfect.
00:44:06.922 --> 00:44:07.985
Oh, yeah, you do.
00:44:07.985 --> 00:44:19.376
And I remember in our class, when you talked the other day about how you were using audiobooks, all the students picked up on that and they were going yeah, that's an idea, that's something I can do.
00:44:19.376 --> 00:44:31.411
And the fact that you, who are one of the eight students in the class and clearly one of the most competent ones, that you admitted to them that you needed some aids really was very relieving to everybody.
00:44:31.411 --> 00:44:43.704
And then, of course, when I chanted, say, yeah, I do too, they all realized, hey, they were measuring themselves by a standard that wasn't an existence really oh yes, and that's a okay to just one more quote.
00:44:43.744 --> 00:44:54.501
But it's a little anecdote from this guy from tiktok who he said he was walking just on a path right at a public park and he's doing his own thing and a bike is coming up behind him.
00:44:54.501 --> 00:45:00.155
He's walking his dog, right, the guy's walking his dog and a bike is coming up behind him and rings the bell ring.
00:45:00.155 --> 00:45:10.701
He's like trying to get out of the way, but his dog isn't helping and so the bike rings again and the person in their head immediately goes oh my gosh, they're probably so mad at me right now.
00:45:10.701 --> 00:45:14.847
And so then he gets mad at the bike person and he's like, how dare they?
00:45:14.847 --> 00:45:15.048
Can't?
00:45:15.048 --> 00:45:21.077
They see I'm trying my hardest and finally gets out of the way and the bike goes by and it's this sweet lady who's like hey, thank you so much.
00:45:21.077 --> 00:45:22.101
And keeps going.
00:45:22.161 --> 00:45:27.072
And he realized I was making all this frustration up in my head in this whole scenario.
00:45:27.072 --> 00:45:42.347
And I think it's college students we do that a lot, where we anticipate, like what it's supposed to be like with the audio books, like you create this fake stigma in your head about like I can't, I can't use the audio books, but your professor does it, your top students do it.
00:45:42.347 --> 00:45:43.492
I think that's really interesting.
00:45:43.572 --> 00:45:58.766
Don't make up these scenarios in your head of how it goes well and that's actually a personal learning skill that's on my list, which is learning how to understand human motivation, others motivation to read it oh yeah and a lot of times we map on other people what isn't really accurate.
00:45:59.068 --> 00:46:06.920
There's always that thing where you find out someone is being difficult and turns out that their father just died or they're struggling with a terrible disease.
00:46:06.920 --> 00:46:35.833
That is not obvious, and so learning to be generous and not jumping the gun or to the worst conclusion first, it's a skill because you know the truth is, you learn from how you experienced, I mean before, and the last time somebody rang a bell at that guy, they were not obnoxious and rude, and so learning to moderate your opinions is one of those adult skills, yeah, and all of us, even adults, have trouble doing that.
00:46:35.833 --> 00:46:39.748
So this has been really fun to talk to you.
00:46:39.748 --> 00:46:40.992
I'm so glad that you could do.
00:46:40.992 --> 00:46:41.813
You have one more?
00:46:41.833 --> 00:46:48.750
or my pet of math don't give up seriously, just keep going, like, don't give up on your studies, don't give up on yourself.
00:46:48.750 --> 00:47:03.952
Just you just have to keep going and when it's done you'll look back on it, like I did that, and it's a really cool experience well, and the other thing, too, is that this is what a professor Joyner was talking about not being too obsessed about your grades.
00:47:04.536 --> 00:47:20.297
A few mistakes are not gonna make that big of a difference, and so many times I'll have a student just terribly upset about some relatively small error they made or a grade on a paper that they thought should have been higher, and it ultimately doesn't really matter.
00:47:20.297 --> 00:47:21.400
Just keep going.
00:47:21.400 --> 00:47:27.978
You're finishing something, you're learning from all of this, and so you get to go and not give up by going to Washington.
00:47:27.978 --> 00:47:29.748
Oh my goodness, what are you gonna do there?
00:47:29.748 --> 00:47:30.713
Do you have any idea yet?
00:47:30.713 --> 00:47:31.760
How's that program work?
00:47:31.880 --> 00:47:50.032
I'm not sure exactly what I'm gonna do yet, but the way it works is that you go to Washington DC for the semester, you you're in a cohort of students and you're gonna take a few classes through the UT system and then you're going to intern full-time in Washington DC, and so in the next few months what I'll be doing is applying to internship, completing the onboarding.
00:47:50.032 --> 00:47:59.554
I actually have an onboarding overview meeting today, at 12 I think, and I'll figure out more than they actually just sent out emails about confirmations last week.
00:47:59.614 --> 00:48:04.112
So it's a relatively new thing, but I'm really excited.
00:48:04.112 --> 00:48:13.432
I've already been looking at like how I can learn about policy and writing at the same time, because that's the field that I want to go into, and this has been.
00:48:13.432 --> 00:48:17.856
It's been a really cool experience, kind of what professor Joyner said about goals.
00:48:18.621 --> 00:48:42.436
Once I found the goal that I actually wanted to work towards, it was a lot better for my mental health and my studies and my professional life because I knew what I was going for one of your, one of our graduates here, rakeshia Sam's, did this program and she is now working in the government as a policy writer, for I think I had to do a tax policy but I know that what the end.
00:48:42.436 --> 00:48:49.871
What doesn't sound like fun for us but she loves it and she's actually given national conference papers and things like that, but it's her thing.
00:48:49.871 --> 00:48:54.856
I've heard of people you the kinds of internships you look for, like working for a congressman.
00:48:54.856 --> 00:49:05.815
I know one student was working at the Smithsonian Institute and I think someone else was doing something with the CDC before the CDC got so big deal.
00:49:05.815 --> 00:49:13.398
Yeah, so it all depends on which ones of these agencies and different folks in Washington have internships.
00:49:13.398 --> 00:49:18.634
But and that's another part of the skill is that you have to apply for them and win it okay, everyone else got to do a quote.
00:49:18.713 --> 00:49:29.202
So my mom always was giving me really good advice and I wish professor Joyner was here, because I remember in high school I was, I think, complaining about my art skills or something.
00:49:29.202 --> 00:49:34.092
I was like I wish I was better or whatever, and she said well, it's better to be a budding artist than a blooming idiot.
00:49:34.092 --> 00:49:44.056
That's honestly really stuck with me because, like it translates to you, better to start something new and be bad at it than to never try it all.
00:49:44.056 --> 00:49:45.262
That's how I interpret, is it?
00:49:45.262 --> 00:49:46.690
But I laugh every time I think about it.
00:49:47.072 --> 00:49:54.402
I like that and that's what my dad's errors of omission or worse, and errors of commission yeah, do it, try it, get after it.
00:49:54.402 --> 00:49:55.246
That's so neat.
00:49:55.246 --> 00:50:01.409
Yeah, well, and I think you're a real example of someone who overcome, came the shyness and did it.
00:50:01.731 --> 00:50:13.077
Thank you, so I'm so glad you're here, thank you, yeah, yeah, and a shining example of what it can be to be a student who's fully bought in and involved on campus, because you do a lot, you do a lot.
00:50:13.077 --> 00:50:14.000
Thank you.
00:50:14.360 --> 00:50:15.324
I really enjoy it.
00:50:15.324 --> 00:50:18.822
You're the kind of student we want other folks to know about that.
00:50:18.822 --> 00:50:27.193
You started out not knowing for sure, not being very confident, and now you are not a blooming idiot by any means.
00:50:27.193 --> 00:50:29.358
Well, thank you so much.
00:50:29.358 --> 00:50:38.641
We hope that these are the kinds of bits and pieces of advice and experience that folks out there in our audience will will benefit from and maybe enjoy and get a laugh.
00:50:38.641 --> 00:50:41.472
Yeah, we've had a good laugh or two, haven't we?
00:50:41.572 --> 00:50:46.141
yeah, well, this has been the ask dr Ross podcast.
00:50:46.382 --> 00:51:00.788
If you have any questions, you can ask them at ADR questions at gmailcom we really want folks to email in and ask us stuff that we can pursue or if there's a topic for a new program episode yeah so that you all like to hear about.
00:51:00.788 --> 00:51:04.056
We're really ready and eager to do that thanks so much for listening.