WEBVTT
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Hey, we're trying out a brand new show on arrow
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dot Net. It's featured on several different podcasts. It's called
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Music's Lost History. You know the songs, but do you
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know the story. I mean, that's the kind of stuff
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that we used to rush to Rolling Stone Magazine for
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and every now and then old style terrestrial radio would
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give us a little shot in the arm two about
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our favorite songs. Music's Lost History only on Aro dot
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net Aroe dot Net. Enjoy your exploration. Good morning, Daniel,
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how are you doing today?
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Good morning, I'm doing really well. How are you? Oh?
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Fantastic. I have experienced this movie, and it truly is
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an experience, and I want people to go through it
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exactly the way we did it. Don't try to write
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this movie because it's already written and it's been directed
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by you, Daniel. Let you tell the story. And it's
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an oh my god moment.
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I'm glad that you're saying that.
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Yes, when I read the script for the first time,
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I think I went through exactly that. I had no
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idea what was going on, And you've kind of at
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some point you feel like you've seen every movie you
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could pretty well predict normally what is going to happen,
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so it's really special, So like one in one hundred
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scripts where I really have no idea, and then in between,
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for a moment, I'm like, oh, I know where this
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is going, and then it takes a one eighty again
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and suddenly it's a courtroom drama and suddenly and it
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says you know, and all the characters are completely changing,
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and it was just such a joy. And then of
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course one of my big thing when we made it
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was like, oh, let's keep the mystery alive. Let's let's
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not hint at the third act. But of course as
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soon as a marketing department gets their hands on the footage,
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they will go right into the third act and get
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all the kind of visually meaty stuff. And to try
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to not signal what genre you were in was kind
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of a fool's errand on my part, you know, because now,
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of course the poster is kind of very clearly, you know,
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telegraphing where you're going. The trailer shows you everything. So
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to what you're saying, if you can, don't watch the trailer,
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don't watch anything, just watch the movie as is, and
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you'll have a much much more intriguing time.
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Well, I'm really amazing how today's movie making is getting
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the attention of people like Steven Spielberg, and he says,
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it's in the directing, and it's also in the writing,
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because you guys have tapped into this brand new generation
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of storytelling and you know how to reach it, and
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you know how to get in there with that intrigue
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you're talking about while shifting subjects but not interrupting the
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pattern of flow, right.
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And it's all in the writing.
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I studied screenwriting for four years at a film school
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in Germany before I ever directed anything, and to this day,
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writing to me is the moment of genius. It's the
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moment of inception. You know, when someone creates this something
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out of nothing. It's a godlike process. Whereas directing, not
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to poo poo on directing, obviously, like something that's well
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directed is an amazing piece of art, but it's a
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translation process. You take something from the page and you
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hopefully enrich it and you probably hopefully make it better
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than it even was on the page.
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You tried not to screw it up.
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Sometimes you screw it up, but at this incredible moment,
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it's all in the writing. So especially with an audience
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that has seen everything, and that needs to understand within
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the first two minutes that they're watching something worth watching,
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because otherwise they'll find something else.
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It's all in the writing. I can't make a bad
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script work.
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I can put It's like it's like putting putting garnish
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on a dish that tastes like poop. You know, you
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just can't make it. You can make it look good
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for a second, but really you won't get through it.
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So yes, it's it's all in the writing more than anything.
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Oh my god. I can so relay with you on
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a commercial level in the way that they'll bring me
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a script and I'll look at it now, and this
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is where I get in trouble. I'll go hmm, and
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you don't like it. I didn't say that, I just
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said hmmm. Do you have that moment too where you
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just go hmmm?
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I mean I do have that most of the time.
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In a way because I studied screenwriting myself, of course,
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I always think I know better and I'm always like, oh,
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I know what the script needs, which must.
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Be a nightmare for any screenwriter.
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But I always have the feeling like if there is
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even a sixty percent I'm going like, this script is
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sixty percent there.
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That's already huge in my world because.
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That means there is a core to this story that
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is worth working on, you know. So for a script
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like this to come that just blows you away from
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the first to the last page and it just comes
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you knows as a beautiful work of art in itself
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is really special.
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So there was no.
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They actually they sent me two scripts actually, because it's
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this it's based on a podcast called Nice Point Horror
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and there are ninety incredible episodes and they're gonna make
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a lot of these movies. This is the first one.
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So they sent me the first two scripts and said,
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read these two, see if you want to make one
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of them. And I never, to this day, I never
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even read the second script. The first one blew me
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away so much, and it was a random one of
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the two that I picked that I picked blog Box first,
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Otherwise we'd be talking about a completely different movie right now.
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And I I just called them immediately and said, let's
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make this movie. And I had to pretend I had
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read the other script, so I was like, oh, yeah, no,
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this one is actually better.
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I have no idea what the other script is.
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It might be fantastic, but Lockbox to me was the
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movie I wanted to make immediately.
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You know, for selfish reasons why. I've always said that
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that podcasting is the next level of theater the mind.
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And to see that this is coming from a podcast,
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it doesn't shock me because it is messing with the heart,
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it is messing with the mind. And then for you
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to bring it to life. And I know you talked
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about how well we've all seen these characters before. Yeah,
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but nobody but Winthrop can pull a body part out
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like he did and still make me sit there and go,
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oh my god. You know what I'm saying, He really
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brought that out in me.
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Yeah, now he is incredible. I mean, lu Taylor Putchi
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is an amazing actor. Cala Gujino too. I mean, those
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are the weapons that you have because what you're saying
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is exactly right. Podcast is the next medium. And the
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big advantage that podcasts have is that they don't have
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to stick quite so strictly to a three x structure, right,
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they can, and that is what Knife Point Horror does.
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They give you two amazing acts. Sore Narnia is his name.
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The writer is complete genius, as Stephen Gunn Stephen king level,
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and he leaves it open. He leaves the third act open,
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and it's so tantalizing it haunts you for days after
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you have listened to that episode because it doesn't have
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everything tied up neatly in the end. But then you're
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making the movie and you very quickly realize that it's
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a different beast. You have to bring things to a
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conclusion somehow. So how all our work went into how
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do we get this third act, you know, into a
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film shape that the podcast doesn't have to sew. Now
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it's a wonderful medium podcasts for sure.
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Please don't move. There is more inside secrets. When it
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comes to lock Box, we'll be back with Daniel. The
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name of the movie lock Box, it's one you need
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to put on your listener, must seize and must do's
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we are back with Daniel. One of the things that
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you do, and I might be the only one who's
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going to bring this up, is comic relief. But I
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do love the fact and I did laugh out loud
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when James introduces Kevin, because right away, I'm going I
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expect you, James, to give me another Bible character, not Kevin.
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As the person that was going to be in that
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spiritual place. But it did make me laugh, and I
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thought that is brilliant that you took my mind off
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this movie for just a second to get some relief
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and then show back up.
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Yeah.
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I love that you're parting that out because that's one
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of my favorite moments in the whole movie. I mean,
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the whole thing is so unusual, right right, because you
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are you have them down as the not to give
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anything away, but you have them down as the classic
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villains and then they turn out to be something completely different,
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And how do you deal with that? Like, if you're
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in a horror movie, you know what the protagonist is
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supposed to be behaving like, it's easy if you know this.
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These are the bad guys, these are the good guys.
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What do I do but to.
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Pull it onto the real world level for a moment,
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because that was the great thing about the movie to
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me and the podcast, It's like, this is how evil
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would present itself if it happened to you or I.
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We wouldn't be the.
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Protagonist's first row center middle experiencing everything immediately.
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It would sneak in. Stuff would be weird. We would
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see a little.
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Thing of something, then it would be gone again, and
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we're trying to make sense of it. And by the
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time that we realized that we have been in someone
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else's movie entirely and there has been something completely different
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going on the entire time, you know, we're kind of
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along for the ride. So with this scene with the
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third act too, we were like, what would it feel
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like if this were real life? What would these people
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they're standing up there right down do they would introduce
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themselves and it's bizarre because you wouldn't do it that
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way in a kind of conventional movie.
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Well, I'm glad that you're bringing up real life because
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I did feel like it. And that's how I judge
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a movie like this. I go, would this really happen?
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Oh my god, no, wonder. I'm feeling real fear because
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the way that my wife and I described the movie,
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it's like when you go to a gigantic roller coaster
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and you're chugging up that hill and because you're pacing
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in this is amazing because you build it up and
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you hold it up and you build it up and
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then woof, down that hill we go, and you better
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have your seat belt on because it's going to be
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a wild ride.
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Yeah.
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I always feel like you can only scare an audience
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if you have invested the time to make them care
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about the characters. You know, no one cares if something
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horrifical is happening to someone that they don't care about,
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and so you've got to spend that time.
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You really need to know these characters.
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You need to understand that your protagonist cares, because the
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audience cares about someone who cares about something other than themselves.
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You know.
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And you have to get these pieces into place and
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then you can go full on. And that was something
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I had to learn because in the beginning, I thought
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horror movies were about set pieces, and the faster you
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get into the set piece, the better, and then you
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go set PI, set P, set P, set piece. But
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then you really end up with something that doesn't have
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much of its own flavor and its own identity because
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the care hasn't been taken to create a world and
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to create characters that are memorable. So that's always been
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a big.
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Thing part of that character Vana. Right away, the very
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second that we're introduced to Vanna. Right away, I'm thinking
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Stevie Nicks. And then to go wait, without spoiling the
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movie which she goes through, I'm going, I know dark Goodwell,
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that's what's going on in all that candle light inside
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those studios. I know there's something I mean because you
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really set up my imagination because to see someone like
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Vanna right away, I went to Stevie Nicks.
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Yeah, well, what a once in a lifetime character.
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Like how often do I read something that has a
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character in it that jumps off the page as fully formed.
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As this one? Almost never?
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And then Catherine Isabel, this incredible actress, came in and
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just knocked it out of the park. It was actually
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a fun process because I have the actress from my
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last movie, Prayed for the Devil, is an incredible actress,
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and there was no doubt she was gonna play Vanna.
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This was I had already cast her. She was gonna
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be brilliant edit, you know. And then Catherine Isabel came
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in and she did this fantastic job in the audition
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that didn't need anything, like if we could have filmed
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just the audition, just cut in the audition. Incredible performance.
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And I just could not get as much as I
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was fighting for my actress. Originally I could not get
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her through and rightfully so, you know, because Catherine just
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could not be top and she just came in and
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she owned this character and just had so much fun
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with it and talking about comic relief. I mean, that's
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what she does, right She comes in with all this
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energy and all this humor, and you recognize that because
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in real life there are people that are fascinating and you.
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Know they are your downfall.
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You know, it's just going to be trouble, it's just
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going to be bad, But man, is it going to
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be interesting.
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It sure makes me look at my neighbor a little
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bit differently because isn't that how she's introduced to us?
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Oh that's my neighbor. Oh really, your neighbor is her?
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Not more?
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You're in for an interesting but troubling time.
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And then, of course, again without taking anything away, she's
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not in the movie in a role that you think she.
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Will be or for as long as you think. And
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there was another thing to me.
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If any other script has found a character like this,
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this is what the movie is going to be about
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for the next ninety minutes. You don't let that slip away.
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And Sore and Narnia, who is writing the Knife Point
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Horror Podcast. He's just so confident in his storytelling that
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he can introduce a character like this and go like,
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I don't need to be on her shoulders for the
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rest of this movie. I have enough other interesting stuff
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to talk about. And that's what makes him dangerous, like
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he will kill off people at any moment, and you
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can just feel it. It's a wonderful source.
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Oh my god.
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And speaking of that texture, I love what you did
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on that lens when it comes to win Through being
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at the place of homelessness where he's inside that tent,
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because it almost feels like that you went into a
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black and white texture. Are my eyes screwing around with me?
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Or did you actually do that on purpose? You kind
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of put a like a different kind of effect on
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that moment.
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I think that was I mean, the black and white
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is exactly what I'm always trying to do with everything,
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because you want to control the colors. And my one
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sentence is always when we have our meeting, our production
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meetings and all that, if I carry an orange into
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this room and I put the orange on the table,
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I need that scene to be an orange scene. If
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I put a rose on that table, it needs to
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be a red scene. There can't be other colors that
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are willly nearly competing with that. And I always have
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the feeling that in like very low budget movies, you
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don't have the time or the money to control your
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colors on sets, so you do it in color correction afterwards,
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and you pull out the colors and you manipulate and
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you try, but you always feel that it has been
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done in post and it always takes you out of
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this world a little bit, whereas big budget movies they
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have the staff the people to kind of control colors
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on sets. I'm always trying to do that and people
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will make fun of me because I'm hunting down the
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last little pen that is somewhere in the background that
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is blue, where I'm like, well, that needs to be
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pulled out because that will take in the eyes away.
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So that's kind of what you're trying to do, and
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the audience can't really put their finger on I learned
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that on House of Cards. Like when I watch the
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pilot of House of Cards, I was like, how does
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this looks so amazing? And the trick is there isn't
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a single color in the entire pilot or in the
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entire show. You know, there is the white shot of
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a big square of two hundred people walking. Everybody is
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wearing a black or brown or gray coat, but the
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audience doesn't put their finger on.
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It and go like, that's not realistic. There are no
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colors here.
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That's just the world you immerse yourself in in five
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minutes in you don't even realize that anymore, and suddenly
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you are in this elegant, gorgeous world that still feels real.
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And that's what we were trying to do. And then,
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of course, if you're then trying to convey oh my god, homelessness,
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the hopelessness and all that, you take out. You drain
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out that little piece of piece of color that you've
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so far in a very controlled way head in every
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single scene. You take that out, and suddenly you feel
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what you just describe.
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I gotta tell you, I got to figure out how
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I'm going to see this movie lock box inside that
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inside a theater that has that new theater ax effects
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where it's up on the walls, on the side walls
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and in front of you, because this is one of
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those movies where I know that Winthrop is going to
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freak me out, like you wouldn't believe. And I want
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him coming from my right side and then go all
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the way over to my left side.
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That would be awesome.
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Actually, we saw it in a movie theater with Lou
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Taylor Putchi with the Winthrop actor and the producers and
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Long Beach down here in a big Regal theater, and
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it was the first time ever that I saw in
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a screening and I thought, this is exactly what we
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wanted it to be.
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The colors, the sounds, because usually as.
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A director you run around during the first screening and
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try to find the projection booth because the sound is too.
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Low or too basy and it's too orange. And this one,
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since then I'm such a Regal fan. I'm like, oh
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my god. You know, they really can know how to
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screen a movie exactly as it's intended. Was wonderful.
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When you're putting a scene together, and I don't want
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to spoil it for the listener, but there's a scene
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in there that deals with a walker. I mean, how
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long did it really take to put that scene together?
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Because that right there was the epitome of scariness because
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we all see people on these walkers. But you take
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it to a completely different level.
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Well, I'm glad you're saying that, because it was a
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piece in it, and that had to do with what
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do you do with the third act that we had
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to We had to invent a lot of things for
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the third act, and we wanted to be careful that
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it doesn't feel like a generic horror movie thing. But
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we always had this passage in the script that we
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just called mayhem, and we said, okay, here insert five
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minutes of horror mayhem because we're again, I don't want
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to give it away, but it's a very specific thing
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that turns out to be a different thing later. So
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we really had a carte blanche to do whatever we wanted.
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It could be as crazy and as absurd as we
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wanted it to be. And this walker always freaked out our.
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Producer, Kiri Peak.
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She had had a very personal relationship with this episode
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and the walker was one of the things that always
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freaked her out the most. So we really made a
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thing of it when we shot that scene.
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Are you going to merchandise or market Winthrop in any way?
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Because I could just see his mug on a T
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shirt and I swear to God that if I see
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somebody word, I'm gonna go, oh my god, it's going
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to be a one hell of a conversation piece.
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Well I wish you know, there are movies that are
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have the marketing behind it to show up on mugs,
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and then there are smaller movies that don't, And this
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one is kind of one of the smaller movies that don't,
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and people kind of have to discover it, which I
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hope will contribute to the effect rather than having it
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force down people's throats for them to discover it and
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probably for people to say, oh no, you have to
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have to check this out. Hopefully it's going to have
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that air that something have when you catch something in
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theaters on stage, you know, and you see.
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Something and you go like, okay, we have one more week.
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I have to tell everybody about it to watch this.
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Hopefully it's gonna have that kind of effect.
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Where can people go to find out more about you,
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Daniel and everything that you're doing. Because I do like
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the way that your story sharing these days now, storytelling,
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story sharing, You believe in sharing the vision, thank you?
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Yeah, I mean that goes back to writing and directing,
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right The storytelling is being done in the writing.
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The story sharing.
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That's such a good way of looking at it is
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the directing part of it all. I mean, the good
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thing about the age we live in is that you
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get every single thing that I ever made, you know,
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in streaming. I made my very first movie, A Necessary Death,
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which is very, very dark, and I'm incredibly proud of it.
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So anyone who is listening and who is interested in
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checking out anything at all, I would say, try to
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get your hands on A Necessary Death, because that was
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the last movie where there was no money involved, there
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was no studio involved, and I got to do anything
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I wanted to do, and I stand behind every single frame,
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you know, and then everything I did after that kind
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of comes from that as a basis. So if you're
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interested in it, A Necessary Death, it's very dark, it's
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very depressing, it has destroyed lives, but it's a good movie.
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You got to come back to this show anytime in
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the future, Daniel. The door is always going to be
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open for you.
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Thank you so much means a lot.
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Will you be brilliant today?
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Okay? You Tube
1
00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:01.919
Hey, we're trying out a brand new show on arrow
2
00:00:01.960 --> 00:00:04.759
dot Net. It's featured on several different podcasts. It's called
3
00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:09.759
Music's Lost History. You know the songs, but do you
4
00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:12.199
know the story. I mean, that's the kind of stuff
5
00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:14.400
that we used to rush to Rolling Stone Magazine for
6
00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:17.160
and every now and then old style terrestrial radio would
7
00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:18.800
give us a little shot in the arm two about
8
00:00:18.839 --> 00:00:23.359
our favorite songs. Music's Lost History only on Aro dot
9
00:00:23.399 --> 00:00:29.000
net Aroe dot Net. Enjoy your exploration. Good morning, Daniel,
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00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:30.079
how are you doing today?
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Good morning, I'm doing really well. How are you? Oh?
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Fantastic. I have experienced this movie, and it truly is
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an experience, and I want people to go through it
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exactly the way we did it. Don't try to write
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this movie because it's already written and it's been directed
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by you, Daniel. Let you tell the story. And it's
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an oh my god moment.
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I'm glad that you're saying that.
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Yes, when I read the script for the first time,
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I think I went through exactly that. I had no
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idea what was going on, And you've kind of at
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some point you feel like you've seen every movie you
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could pretty well predict normally what is going to happen,
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so it's really special, So like one in one hundred
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scripts where I really have no idea, and then in between,
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for a moment, I'm like, oh, I know where this
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is going, and then it takes a one eighty again
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and suddenly it's a courtroom drama and suddenly and it
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says you know, and all the characters are completely changing,
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and it was just such a joy. And then of
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course one of my big thing when we made it
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was like, oh, let's keep the mystery alive. Let's let's
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not hint at the third act. But of course as
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soon as a marketing department gets their hands on the footage,
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they will go right into the third act and get
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all the kind of visually meaty stuff. And to try
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to not signal what genre you were in was kind
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of a fool's errand on my part, you know, because now,
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of course the poster is kind of very clearly, you know,
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telegraphing where you're going. The trailer shows you everything. So
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to what you're saying, if you can, don't watch the trailer,
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don't watch anything, just watch the movie as is, and
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you'll have a much much more intriguing time.
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Well, I'm really amazing how today's movie making is getting
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the attention of people like Steven Spielberg, and he says,
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it's in the directing, and it's also in the writing,
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because you guys have tapped into this brand new generation
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of storytelling and you know how to reach it, and
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you know how to get in there with that intrigue
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you're talking about while shifting subjects but not interrupting the
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pattern of flow, right.
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And it's all in the writing.
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I studied screenwriting for four years at a film school
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in Germany before I ever directed anything, and to this day,
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writing to me is the moment of genius. It's the
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moment of inception. You know, when someone creates this something
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out of nothing. It's a godlike process. Whereas directing, not
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to poo poo on directing, obviously, like something that's well
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directed is an amazing piece of art, but it's a
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translation process. You take something from the page and you
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hopefully enrich it and you probably hopefully make it better
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than it even was on the page.
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You tried not to screw it up.
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Sometimes you screw it up, but at this incredible moment,
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it's all in the writing. So especially with an audience
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that has seen everything, and that needs to understand within
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the first two minutes that they're watching something worth watching,
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because otherwise they'll find something else.
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It's all in the writing. I can't make a bad
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script work.
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I can put It's like it's like putting putting garnish
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on a dish that tastes like poop. You know, you
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just can't make it. You can make it look good
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for a second, but really you won't get through it.
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So yes, it's it's all in the writing more than anything.
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Oh my god. I can so relay with you on
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a commercial level in the way that they'll bring me
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a script and I'll look at it now, and this
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is where I get in trouble. I'll go hmm, and
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you don't like it. I didn't say that, I just
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said hmmm. Do you have that moment too where you
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just go hmmm?
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I mean I do have that most of the time.
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In a way because I studied screenwriting myself, of course,
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I always think I know better and I'm always like, oh,
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I know what the script needs, which must.
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Be a nightmare for any screenwriter.
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But I always have the feeling like if there is
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even a sixty percent I'm going like, this script is
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sixty percent there.
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That's already huge in my world because.
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That means there is a core to this story that
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is worth working on, you know. So for a script
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like this to come that just blows you away from
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the first to the last page and it just comes
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you knows as a beautiful work of art in itself
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is really special.
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So there was no.
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They actually they sent me two scripts actually, because it's
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this it's based on a podcast called Nice Point Horror
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and there are ninety incredible episodes and they're gonna make
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a lot of these movies. This is the first one.
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So they sent me the first two scripts and said,
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read these two, see if you want to make one
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of them. And I never, to this day, I never
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even read the second script. The first one blew me
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away so much, and it was a random one of
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the two that I picked that I picked blog Box first,
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Otherwise we'd be talking about a completely different movie right now.
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And I I just called them immediately and said, let's
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make this movie. And I had to pretend I had
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read the other script, so I was like, oh, yeah, no,
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this one is actually better.
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I have no idea what the other script is.
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It might be fantastic, but Lockbox to me was the
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movie I wanted to make immediately.
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You know, for selfish reasons why. I've always said that
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that podcasting is the next level of theater the mind.
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And to see that this is coming from a podcast,
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it doesn't shock me because it is messing with the heart,
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it is messing with the mind. And then for you
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to bring it to life. And I know you talked
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about how well we've all seen these characters before. Yeah,
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but nobody but Winthrop can pull a body part out
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like he did and still make me sit there and go,
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oh my god. You know what I'm saying, He really
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brought that out in me.
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Yeah, now he is incredible. I mean, lu Taylor Putchi
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is an amazing actor. Cala Gujino too. I mean, those
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are the weapons that you have because what you're saying
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is exactly right. Podcast is the next medium. And the
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big advantage that podcasts have is that they don't have
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to stick quite so strictly to a three x structure, right,
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they can, and that is what Knife Point Horror does.
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They give you two amazing acts. Sore Narnia is his name.
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The writer is complete genius, as Stephen Gunn Stephen king level,
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and he leaves it open. He leaves the third act open,
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and it's so tantalizing it haunts you for days after
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you have listened to that episode because it doesn't have
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everything tied up neatly in the end. But then you're
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making the movie and you very quickly realize that it's
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a different beast. You have to bring things to a
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conclusion somehow. So how all our work went into how
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do we get this third act, you know, into a
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film shape that the podcast doesn't have to sew. Now
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it's a wonderful medium podcasts for sure.
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Please don't move. There is more inside secrets. When it
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comes to lock Box, we'll be back with Daniel. The
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name of the movie lock Box, it's one you need
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to put on your listener, must seize and must do's
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we are back with Daniel. One of the things that
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you do, and I might be the only one who's
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going to bring this up, is comic relief. But I
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do love the fact and I did laugh out loud
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when James introduces Kevin, because right away, I'm going I
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expect you, James, to give me another Bible character, not Kevin.
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As the person that was going to be in that
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spiritual place. But it did make me laugh, and I
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thought that is brilliant that you took my mind off
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this movie for just a second to get some relief
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and then show back up.
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Yeah.
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I love that you're parting that out because that's one
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of my favorite moments in the whole movie. I mean,
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the whole thing is so unusual, right right, because you
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are you have them down as the not to give
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anything away, but you have them down as the classic
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villains and then they turn out to be something completely different,
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And how do you deal with that? Like, if you're
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in a horror movie, you know what the protagonist is
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supposed to be behaving like, it's easy if you know this.
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These are the bad guys, these are the good guys.
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What do I do but to.
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Pull it onto the real world level for a moment,
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because that was the great thing about the movie to
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me and the podcast, It's like, this is how evil
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would present itself if it happened to you or I.
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We wouldn't be the.
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Protagonist's first row center middle experiencing everything immediately.
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It would sneak in. Stuff would be weird. We would
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see a little.
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Thing of something, then it would be gone again, and
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we're trying to make sense of it. And by the
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time that we realized that we have been in someone
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else's movie entirely and there has been something completely different
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going on the entire time, you know, we're kind of
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along for the ride. So with this scene with the
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third act too, we were like, what would it feel
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like if this were real life? What would these people
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they're standing up there right down do they would introduce
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themselves and it's bizarre because you wouldn't do it that
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way in a kind of conventional movie.
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Well, I'm glad that you're bringing up real life because
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I did feel like it. And that's how I judge
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a movie like this. I go, would this really happen?
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Oh my god, no, wonder. I'm feeling real fear because
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the way that my wife and I described the movie,
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it's like when you go to a gigantic roller coaster
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and you're chugging up that hill and because you're pacing
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in this is amazing because you build it up and
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you hold it up and you build it up and
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then woof, down that hill we go, and you better
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have your seat belt on because it's going to be
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a wild ride.
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Yeah.
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I always feel like you can only scare an audience
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if you have invested the time to make them care
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about the characters. You know, no one cares if something
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horrifical is happening to someone that they don't care about,
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and so you've got to spend that time.
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You really need to know these characters.
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You need to understand that your protagonist cares, because the
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audience cares about someone who cares about something other than themselves.
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You know.
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And you have to get these pieces into place and
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then you can go full on. And that was something
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I had to learn because in the beginning, I thought
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horror movies were about set pieces, and the faster you
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get into the set piece, the better, and then you
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go set PI, set P, set P, set piece. But
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then you really end up with something that doesn't have
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much of its own flavor and its own identity because
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the care hasn't been taken to create a world and
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to create characters that are memorable. So that's always been
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a big.
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Thing part of that character Vana. Right away, the very
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second that we're introduced to Vanna. Right away, I'm thinking
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Stevie Nicks. And then to go wait, without spoiling the
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movie which she goes through, I'm going, I know dark Goodwell,
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that's what's going on in all that candle light inside
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those studios. I know there's something I mean because you
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really set up my imagination because to see someone like
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Vanna right away, I went to Stevie Nicks.
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Yeah, well, what a once in a lifetime character.
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Like how often do I read something that has a
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character in it that jumps off the page as fully formed.
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As this one? Almost never?
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And then Catherine Isabel, this incredible actress, came in and
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just knocked it out of the park. It was actually
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a fun process because I have the actress from my
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last movie, Prayed for the Devil, is an incredible actress,
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and there was no doubt she was gonna play Vanna.
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This was I had already cast her. She was gonna
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be brilliant edit, you know. And then Catherine Isabel came
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in and she did this fantastic job in the audition
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that didn't need anything, like if we could have filmed
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just the audition, just cut in the audition. Incredible performance.
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And I just could not get as much as I
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was fighting for my actress. Originally I could not get
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her through and rightfully so, you know, because Catherine just
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could not be top and she just came in and
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she owned this character and just had so much fun
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with it and talking about comic relief. I mean, that's
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what she does, right She comes in with all this
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energy and all this humor, and you recognize that because
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in real life there are people that are fascinating and you.
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Know they are your downfall.
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You know, it's just going to be trouble, it's just
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going to be bad, But man, is it going to
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be interesting.
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It sure makes me look at my neighbor a little
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bit differently because isn't that how she's introduced to us?
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Oh that's my neighbor. Oh really, your neighbor is her?
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Not more?
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You're in for an interesting but troubling time.
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And then, of course, again without taking anything away, she's
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not in the movie in a role that you think she.
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Will be or for as long as you think. And
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there was another thing to me.
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If any other script has found a character like this,
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this is what the movie is going to be about
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for the next ninety minutes. You don't let that slip away.
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And Sore and Narnia, who is writing the Knife Point
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Horror Podcast. He's just so confident in his storytelling that
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he can introduce a character like this and go like,
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I don't need to be on her shoulders for the
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rest of this movie. I have enough other interesting stuff
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to talk about. And that's what makes him dangerous, like
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he will kill off people at any moment, and you
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can just feel it. It's a wonderful source.
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Oh my god.
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And speaking of that texture, I love what you did
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on that lens when it comes to win Through being
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at the place of homelessness where he's inside that tent,
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because it almost feels like that you went into a
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black and white texture. Are my eyes screwing around with me?
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Or did you actually do that on purpose? You kind
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of put a like a different kind of effect on
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that moment.
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I think that was I mean, the black and white
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is exactly what I'm always trying to do with everything,
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because you want to control the colors. And my one
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sentence is always when we have our meeting, our production
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meetings and all that, if I carry an orange into
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this room and I put the orange on the table,
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I need that scene to be an orange scene. If
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I put a rose on that table, it needs to
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be a red scene. There can't be other colors that
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are willly nearly competing with that. And I always have
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the feeling that in like very low budget movies, you
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don't have the time or the money to control your
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colors on sets, so you do it in color correction afterwards,
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and you pull out the colors and you manipulate and
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you try, but you always feel that it has been
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done in post and it always takes you out of
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this world a little bit, whereas big budget movies they
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have the staff the people to kind of control colors
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on sets. I'm always trying to do that and people
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will make fun of me because I'm hunting down the
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last little pen that is somewhere in the background that
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is blue, where I'm like, well, that needs to be
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pulled out because that will take in the eyes away.
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So that's kind of what you're trying to do, and
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the audience can't really put their finger on I learned
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that on House of Cards. Like when I watch the
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pilot of House of Cards, I was like, how does
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this looks so amazing? And the trick is there isn't
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a single color in the entire pilot or in the
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entire show. You know, there is the white shot of
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a big square of two hundred people walking. Everybody is
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wearing a black or brown or gray coat, but the
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audience doesn't put their finger on.
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It and go like, that's not realistic. There are no
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colors here.
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That's just the world you immerse yourself in in five
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minutes in you don't even realize that anymore, and suddenly
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you are in this elegant, gorgeous world that still feels real.
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And that's what we were trying to do. And then,
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of course, if you're then trying to convey oh my god, homelessness,
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the hopelessness and all that, you take out. You drain
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out that little piece of piece of color that you've
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so far in a very controlled way head in every
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single scene. You take that out, and suddenly you feel
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what you just describe.
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I gotta tell you, I got to figure out how
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I'm going to see this movie lock box inside that
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inside a theater that has that new theater ax effects
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where it's up on the walls, on the side walls
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and in front of you, because this is one of
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those movies where I know that Winthrop is going to
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freak me out, like you wouldn't believe. And I want
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him coming from my right side and then go all
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the way over to my left side.
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That would be awesome.
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Actually, we saw it in a movie theater with Lou
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Taylor Putchi with the Winthrop actor and the producers and
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Long Beach down here in a big Regal theater, and
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it was the first time ever that I saw in
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a screening and I thought, this is exactly what we
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wanted it to be.
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The colors, the sounds, because usually as.
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A director you run around during the first screening and
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try to find the projection booth because the sound is too.
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Low or too basy and it's too orange. And this one,
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since then I'm such a Regal fan. I'm like, oh
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my god. You know, they really can know how to
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screen a movie exactly as it's intended. Was wonderful.
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When you're putting a scene together, and I don't want
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to spoil it for the listener, but there's a scene
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in there that deals with a walker. I mean, how
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long did it really take to put that scene together?
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Because that right there was the epitome of scariness because
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we all see people on these walkers. But you take
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it to a completely different level.
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Well, I'm glad you're saying that, because it was a
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piece in it, and that had to do with what
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do you do with the third act that we had
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to We had to invent a lot of things for
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the third act, and we wanted to be careful that
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it doesn't feel like a generic horror movie thing. But
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we always had this passage in the script that we
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just called mayhem, and we said, okay, here insert five
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minutes of horror mayhem because we're again, I don't want
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to give it away, but it's a very specific thing
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that turns out to be a different thing later. So
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we really had a carte blanche to do whatever we wanted.
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It could be as crazy and as absurd as we
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wanted it to be. And this walker always freaked out our.
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Producer, Kiri Peak.
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She had had a very personal relationship with this episode
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and the walker was one of the things that always
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freaked her out the most. So we really made a
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thing of it when we shot that scene.
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Are you going to merchandise or market Winthrop in any way?
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Because I could just see his mug on a T
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shirt and I swear to God that if I see
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somebody word, I'm gonna go, oh my god, it's going
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to be a one hell of a conversation piece.
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Well I wish you know, there are movies that are
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have the marketing behind it to show up on mugs,
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and then there are smaller movies that don't, And this
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one is kind of one of the smaller movies that don't,
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and people kind of have to discover it, which I
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hope will contribute to the effect rather than having it
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force down people's throats for them to discover it and
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probably for people to say, oh no, you have to
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have to check this out. Hopefully it's going to have
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that air that something have when you catch something in
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theaters on stage, you know, and you see.
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Something and you go like, okay, we have one more week.
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I have to tell everybody about it to watch this.
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Hopefully it's gonna have that kind of effect.
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Where can people go to find out more about you,
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Daniel and everything that you're doing. Because I do like
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the way that your story sharing these days now, storytelling,
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story sharing, You believe in sharing the vision, thank you?
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Yeah, I mean that goes back to writing and directing,
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right The storytelling is being done in the writing.
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The story sharing.
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That's such a good way of looking at it is
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the directing part of it all. I mean, the good
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thing about the age we live in is that you
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get every single thing that I ever made, you know,
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in streaming. I made my very first movie, A Necessary Death,
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which is very, very dark, and I'm incredibly proud of it.
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So anyone who is listening and who is interested in
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checking out anything at all, I would say, try to
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get your hands on A Necessary Death, because that was
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the last movie where there was no money involved, there
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was no studio involved, and I got to do anything
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I wanted to do, and I stand behind every single frame,
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you know, and then everything I did after that kind
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of comes from that as a basis. So if you're
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interested in it, A Necessary Death, it's very dark, it's
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very depressing, it has destroyed lives, but it's a good movie.
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You got to come back to this show anytime in
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the future, Daniel. The door is always going to be
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open for you.
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Thank you so much means a lot.
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Will you be brilliant today?
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Okay? You Tube
