Lanterns Ep. 3 - "Outkast"

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Today on Always Watching, we're going to be talking about Lanterns,
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Episode 3, Outcast. All that, right after this. Welcome to
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Always Watching, straight up in a podcast where we talk
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about whatever geeky TV shows we feel like talking about.
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My name's Matthew Carroll.
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And I'm Jay Scottie St.
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Clair. What's up, Scoots? How you doing, bud?
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I'm doing well. I'm doing well. How are you doing?
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You know, I'm good. I gotta say, love this episode.
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I know that I have been a little more circumspect
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about this season so far, and just the show in general,
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and finding the vibe a little off, and this episode
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is why.
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Why?
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I needed this episode. I needed the context of their relationship.
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I am all in now. I feel like all of
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the things we've been watching up till now have been explained.
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You know what I mean? The relationship, the strange dynamic
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we have between Jon Stewart and, um, and how Jordan
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has been like hard to nail down and, and like,
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fully understand because they were trying to keep it a
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full secret, which the thing that I, I wish. I'm sorry.
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I really didn't mean to get right into this. My
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point is now that I've seen this episode, I'm very
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excited about the rest of the show. Like the dynamic
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is there. Like I really like where we are now.
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We've got a, a Jon Stewart who is literally like
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a sort of a double agent coming into the situation. Um,
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we've got, uh, Hal Jordan who clearly has been having
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problems with the guardians and like misusing his powers and
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all this stuff. And like, maybe misusing them or maybe
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the guardians are wrong. You know, it's that classic, like he's, he's,
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he's pushing off authority. Um, and, and you see it
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in the, in the, in the guardian's face as she's
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talking to Jon Stewart, like he's telling her like, well, I, I,
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if it's my orders, it's my orders. And the, the
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guardian is like, clearly thinks that's good for their purposes,
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but also there's like a little bit of like, yeah, but,
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you also have to have your own sense of morality
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and sense of purpose. It's like, if you're just following orders,
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that's all you are, then you're not as useful of
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a superhero.
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What makes you any different from a Manhunter?
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Yes.
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Which I'm sure we'll get into, even though they weren't
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a highlight of this episode, but I'm really delighted to
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hear that you had such a positive reception to the episode.
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And I know you've been on board for the series,
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even if you weren't as glowing as I was on
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the first couple of episodes, but uh, go on me
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on this journey, if you will. Um, I, I kind
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of liken it to, I think you actually look at
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it both ways. Maybe you were the Hal Jordan to
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my John Stewart, where I was, where I was all
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in or vice versa. Maybe you were the, the John
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Stewart to my Hal Jordan, where you were a little
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more reserved waiting to see what they would deliver, where
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I was just kind of all in. But, uh, I
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say all that to kind of say, this was the
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episode that really, um, I felt Damon Lindelof's influence and
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his touch.
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Me too.
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I've been wanting to go back and rewatch Watchmen, but
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this was the episode that was like, oh yes, this
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is where that social commentary, that deafness to be able
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to weave that alongside a sci-fi superhero story that's pretty
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gripping is all kind of coming to a head. So yeah,
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this was very much a Jon Stewart episode. And, um,
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I was a little, uh, nervous, isn't the right word,
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but maybe hesitant and like somewhat optimistic, you know, just
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for the listeners benefit, um, you know, off air, we've
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been communicating with friend of the show, uh, John Irons,
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who has joined us, you know, on, on various podcasts,
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including this podcast, but also over on the MCU podcast to.
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Cover some episodes. And with an episode that was so
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kind of.
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Steeped in the black experience and what it is to
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be a black man in America, you know, I'm, I'm
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a white man. So, um, So I'm limited in terms
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of like as much as I appreciated this episode, I
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know it wasn't entirely for me and some of the
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things were probably lost on me. So it'd be really
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nice to have John and his voice and his perspective
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for this episode. And I'm missing him a little bit,
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but even so, I'm excited to unpack this one.
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Yeah, John, no matter what the content is, it's always
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wonderful to have him. We just recently did Spider Noir
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with him. But like, yeah, obviously with this kind of content,
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sometimes two white guys talking about it sounds a little...
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Like we're culturally... tourists through the situations of, of what's
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going on when this, when this black, when this black
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family is sitting down to have a discussion about this
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stuff and, and how it affects them and what, what
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it means to be black and like what it means
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to be black in America and how you're fearful. I
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have a bunch of quotes written down, but like, yeah,
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how they're, they're fearful all the time of persecution, but
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they still show up. They still do. And often to,
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to bet better than anyone else, you know, they're showing
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up doing, doing what they need to do to try
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to overcome the, this, this, this, this racism that is
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in the society. Um, and yeah, like watching that as
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an outsider, uh, is, is, is a different experience. I'm sure. Yeah.
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Cultural tourist is, is a great turn of phrase. I'm
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going to have to co-op that because it's a lot
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more succinct and, uh, and captures what I was trying
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to say in a, in a much better way. So, um,
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I will say like the mom, um, the mom was
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such an interesting character. And, um, I've, I found myself
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just kind of going back and forth with, you know,
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Do I like her?
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Do I not like her?
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Is she, is she just as culpable or more culpable
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than the dad here? But, uh, to that end, there
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were a couple of lines for her. I thought she
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had some great lines across the whole episode. She probably
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had the most memorable, um, lines across this episode, but
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there were again, and this is where I'm trying to
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kind of check myself as, as a white man, there
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were a couple of lines that, you know, were a
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little on the nose for me. Like in terms of
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like when she's, you know, I think she said something
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to the effect of like, you know, when she was
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talking about John senior, like edge and she was talking to,
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you know, Laura Linney as the guardian there. And she said, uh,
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you know, he's, he's a black man in America. He
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faces fear every day and you don't have the wherewithal
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to understand and appreciate that. I thought it was a
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little on the nose when I, when I first heard it, but, um, still, I, I,
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I totally get the sentiment that they were going for.
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And I thought it was, uh, brought home pretty effectively.
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Yeah, I definitely think this episode's on the nose for sure.
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But that is something that I think is really kind
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of bold about it in a way that I appreciate
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because so many shows, and we've been talking about it
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since episode one and the way that he's holding himself in.
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And we had even people write in and talk to
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us about, yes, exactly. We completely agree. that that's the
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thing that they're trying to do with the show is
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like have this black man who's trying to not look
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like an angry black man or this, we've talked about
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this already. Um, but something that they did with Watchmen
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a lot and they're doing with the show, Damon, Damon
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Lindelof is like, I'm not going to shy away from
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just having the conversations about race. Like we're just going
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to talk about it. Um, and we're going to be
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direct about it. And I think that's powerful. I think
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like these, especially these, this last 10 years of, of
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sort of Trumpism or pushback on woke or whatever response
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to wokeness, I think is misguided, uh, terrible.
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For my part, I would say the attention that like
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D I wokeness, all that stuff gets, in my opinion,
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it's kind of a ploy for, you know, and I
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don't mean to incense anybody, but maybe it's food for
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thought here. It's kind of a ploy to distract like
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people from the real issues. It's like, here's a, here's
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a target. Here's something to get incensed over. And, and
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focus your attention on that is really a non-issue. This
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is just, you know, basic human rights and, and everybody,
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you know, should be allowed to express themselves and be
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accepted while, uh, he's, you know, meanwhile, he's signing bills that,
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you know, have rippling ramifications that, and people are just
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aren't paying attention.
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But anyway.
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Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, and I just think that
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culturally because of the rise of Trumpism and the, The
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pushback on wokeness. And I've been one to be like,
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fuck you guys, I'm woke. Like, I'm trying to be woke. Like,
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being woke is a good fucking thing. All it means
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is you are aware of the cultural context in which
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you live. You're aware of the discrimination inherent in the system.
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and it's not just one thing. And I realized it
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was originally something I believe originally in the black community,
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but like it's, it's a much broader thing. The idea
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of being woke is not bad. And so this whole
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like demonization of wokeness is, to me is just demonization
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of empathy and I fucking hate it. I, we, we, yeah.
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So I just, so like, I really appreciate Damon Lindelof
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just being like, yeah, we're just going to talk about
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these things. They are, they are facts of the world
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and we're just going to talk about it. It doesn't
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matter that it's like really directly on the nose. One,
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one line that I thought was really, uh, such a,
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there's a really great microaggression from Hal Jordan, uh, When
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he says they're the Midwest Huxtables.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Such a little microaggression where it's like, you know, again,
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you're not just any, you know, salt of the earth family.
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You're a black salt of the earth family. And it's like,
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it's a little, just a little racist there, Hal. Oh, yeah.
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But like, I also, it really works for his character
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to be trying to pick at this family. and to
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pick at how but you see the the uh uh
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mother and father like look just a little like oh
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a little like crack in their neck like a little
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uncomfortable back there like i thought that was a very
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uh effective moment yeah.
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No no i agree it definitely got a chuckle out
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of me and then uh I started going down a
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little bit of a rabbit hole with like, I started
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to do the math. And again, we don't know the
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full history of the DCU, even though we're getting a
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lot of it, the foundation laid within this series. I
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was like, yeah, Bill Cosby obviously existed in some fashion
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in this, in this world. Does he have the same trajectory?
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And if so, that's even, even more insulting in, in
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some way. Like, has he, has he had his fall
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from grace yet?
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Yeah, exactly. Has Hannibal Buress talked about him yet? Basically. Um,
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which like, that was the thing. I'm sure you, you
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know this, but like, yeah, Hannibal Buress did like, apparently
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like brought that to the forefront through like a comedy
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act because like, it was a thing that was known
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about and like already talked about in the media and
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there were already cases out there, but like no one
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was like canceling him. And Hannibal Buress, I'm pretty sure
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it's Hannibal Buress, did a, did a bit where he's like,
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And we're just like not talking about this. What do
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we do? And then that's like, it sort of got
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the online conversation going. It's from what I understand.
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I don't know that I knew that he was the
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catalyst for it. I knew he had spoken on it,
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but I didn't know that was kind of like the
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inciting incident that maybe, uh, unpacked or spurred the investigation.
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That's, that's what I understand. I've heard, uh, I've heard
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him talk about it before. And he was like, I
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was just doing a comedy, uh, bit and like, because
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it had already like the thing and yeah it was
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october 2014 when that stand-up routine happened so this would
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have been like 2016 would have been right after all.
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That would have been still a pretty sensitive topic okay
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yeah okay yeah uh but just to bring it back
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to and i agree with you um the turn of
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phrase that i use just on the nose like sometimes
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that's what you've got to do there's no other way
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around it you just have to be on the nose
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to get the point across so Um, I agree with you.
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And I guess just to kind of put a bow
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on it, I guess the only reason that it gave
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me any kind of pause or whatever is again, knowing
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that it's Damon Lindelof. Um, I kind of thought I
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was like, you know, is this virtue, virtue signaling doesn't
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seem like the right word to me because that has
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like such a negative connotation to it. But I was like,
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is this what an actual, you know, black family would say,
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or is this what a white man thinks a black
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family would say?
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And, and I don't know, I'm not, you know, I'm
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not in those, in those rooms. Maybe that is.
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I haven't looked at the writer's room yet for this,
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but like, When he did Watchmen, which had a lot
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of the black experience built into that show. Absolutely. And
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black history that, like, I didn't even know about. Like,
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the Tulsa Massacre. Right.
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Neither did I.
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I had no idea. Yeah. And, like, yeah. When we
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covered that episode, my podcast partner for that episode, you
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can go back and listen to it. he brings up,
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because we've been talking a lot about the multiverse of
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it all. When did the multiverse split off in Watchmen?
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When did it start being different from our world? And
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my podcast partner for that episode was like, oh, well,
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it had to have been before the Tulsa bombings, because
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that's a thing that happened in this world that didn't
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happen in ours. And I was like, unfortunately it did happen.
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Oh wow.
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And he like on the cast, he was like, Oh wow.
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Cause like, I was like, I didn't know either. This
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show taught me like, don't be embarrassed. Like I didn't
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know either. Uh, it's, it was, uh, and that's the thing.
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I love that about that show. And, um, I love
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what they're doing with this show, uh, for the same,
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for a lot of the same reasons, what I was
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going to say at the top. And I, and I
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really don't, I didn't want, I just, I get the,
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I get a thing in my head. That's a response
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to an episode. And I can't help, but talk about it,
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even though I'm like, This is a criticism I'd rather
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hold to the end. I never do. I like to
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try to say the positives up front, which I think
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pretty much everything in this episode is a positive. I
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love this episode and I love where it leaves the episode.
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The only negative I have is I wish they'd done
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elements of this sooner because I think that... So there's
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a relationship between Hal Jordan and Jon Stewart that we
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haven't understood. And it has been clearly something is going on.
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But instead of us feeling that, we have felt... Jon
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Stewart is kind of a flat character. And I knew
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we've been saying there's more there. There's something we're going
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to learn. And I think if we had just not,
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I think the thing about him being a double agent,
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like there to replace Hal Jordan, they did the right
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thing by holding it off till this episode. But I
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think this show should have started with his father not
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getting the ring.
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I don't disagree. I could see that as like a
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very first scene that you see.
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Yeah.
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Yeah. And I think that if they'd started it that
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way and we knew that Jon Stewart's dad, and we
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saw that later scene where the feet, no fear and
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shoots with the gun, the apple and everything. Like, I
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think that that element of it would have given the
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relationship enough context in the first episode that we would
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have been like, yeah, of course he hates this guy.
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His dad, like had his life, this, this possible life
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stolen from him and beaten out by this guy. You
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know what I mean? Um, and I think that would
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have been a really smarter choice than what they did here.
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Cause I think I, I feel like I've, I've been feeling,
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I've been feeling a lack of something for two episodes
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and now I feel like I have it, but not
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in a way that it feels satisfying to me. I
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feel like I'm annoyed that I didn't have it before now.
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Like that little piece of vision. I love though, that
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they held off this other piece of information, which is
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he's a double agent. He's there to replace Hal. And
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it puts this antagonism between them that we didn't know
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about before. And I think that's a really good thing
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to like just reveal.
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Well, I agree.
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And I really can't push back on any of the
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arguments you're making or the rewrites because like in terms
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of like the information that they held back on him
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being a double agent, yes, is a big one, but
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he was already kind of confronted with that a little
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bit in the previous episode with the, you know, the
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sect of the other aliens that were trying to find
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out information of the, the, Manhunters that you know abducted
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him but this episode also held back on a lot
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of information too in terms of like The way the
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show was set up and I again I agree with
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you You could have opened the series with his father
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being rejected or saying yes I am afraid and it
335
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really wouldn't have taken away from any of these reveals
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that I'm gonna Spell out here, but in terms of
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information that they were holding back on we had this
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idea that it was his father We didn't know what
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his father's bent on or hang up on how Jordan was,
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but there was clearly something there. And we, we had
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all sorts of speculation, but really one of my big
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takeaways is I was like taking notes throughout this episode
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is like, my first note is like, Oh, the mom
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is just as culpable as the dad. Oh wait, she
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might be more culpable than the dad. And then John,
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John is an active participant. The apple was his idea.
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So that just really like reeked of like, religious trauma
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to me as somebody that has experienced a little bit
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of that myself. It's like that question that Laura Linney
350
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as the guardian gave him, like, you know, do you,
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you don't have any misgivings or any resentment about the
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rigor of your upbringing?
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And no, he, he's, he does love his parents.
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And I do think there's some resentment there that he's
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just not willing or able to voice at this point
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in time, but, uh, it's really relatable stuff for me personally.
357
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Yeah. Me too. Uh, me too. I, I, I mentioned,
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I think in the first episode, the way that he
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seems to be like holding in his fear, the way
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that he's holding in his own reactions.
361
00:17:39.289 --> 00:17:40.910
Oh, you did. Yeah, you did for sure. Yeah.
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That very much is something that I experienced in my
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own religious trauma upbringing stuff that made me very much
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like not, you know, die to yourself, not have your
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own experience. Everything is about your religion, not who you are.
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And it made me hold myself back a lot. So
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I absolutely agree that this is a, That is one
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allegory you could take from this for sure. I really
369
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wonder where they're going to go with this from here,
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because I think that right now, it's kind of lined
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up to look like Hal is an irresponsible lantern who
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didn't really deserve it and got the ring kind of,
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as his mom tells him, because of his privilege, not because... and,
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and the, um, the cop a few episodes ago said
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just because he's lonely, you know, and there was a
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lot of interesting stuff in here. She talks about him
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being lonely, not truly fearless. And there's a lot of
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stuff in here when he's scared to shoot his dad,
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where they talk about like love and how important love is.
380
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And like, it's, it's interesting because that, that like loneliness
381
00:18:54.339 --> 00:18:56.940
and having something to lose is like an element of
382
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all of this. Like he has something to lose in
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those moments and they're, and they're having him, knowing he
384
00:19:03.269 --> 00:19:06.029
has something to lose by shooting that apple and missing
385
00:19:07.029 --> 00:19:10.349
and having him still do it is a real overcoming
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of fear. Not just not being afraid because you don't
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have anything to lose, but having something to lose and
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overcoming it. And like, I really wonder, I've been saying
389
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this at the beginning when he, when he confronts that question,
390
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are you afraid? What will be his answer? And I,
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00:19:25.609 --> 00:19:29.470
I'm really fascinated, uh, that they're doing a great job. It's, it's,
392
00:19:29.779 --> 00:19:31.859
It's a one word answer. Yes or no. Like, what's
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00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:33.339
he going to say? And I don't know that it's
394
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:37.049
going to be as clear cut as he has. He's
395
00:19:37.069 --> 00:19:38.569
been training for, you know? Yeah.
396
00:19:38.609 --> 00:19:41.069
It really brings to mind again, like the mom had
397
00:19:41.130 --> 00:19:42.930
so many great lines, but I don't know if I'm
398
00:19:42.950 --> 00:19:44.609
getting this verbatim or not, but I wanted to write
399
00:19:44.630 --> 00:19:46.809
it down. But she said something to the effect of like,
400
00:19:48.029 --> 00:19:49.970
courage is fear that said it's prayer.
401
00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:55.160
Which yeah, just awesome. Awesome line there.
402
00:19:56.220 --> 00:19:59.240
But something you said about, you know, like how being
403
00:19:59.259 --> 00:20:02.789
this unorthodox lantern and kind of putting him at odds
404
00:20:02.869 --> 00:20:05.670
with the guardians, it made me think a little bit about,
405
00:20:05.990 --> 00:20:08.769
you know, what other lanterns do we know about in
406
00:20:08.789 --> 00:20:11.650
this universe? And Guy Gardner obviously comes to mind. And again,
407
00:20:11.670 --> 00:20:14.150
we're going to have to see what the full plan
408
00:20:14.170 --> 00:20:16.890
of this timeline is, but we know in 2016, Hal
409
00:20:16.930 --> 00:20:22.250
still has the ring. But in 2025, 2026, when the
410
00:20:22.470 --> 00:20:25.710
events of Superman and, you know, the final scene of
411
00:20:25.730 --> 00:20:28.990
episode one, where we see Hal frozen on the bleachers there,
412
00:20:30.289 --> 00:20:33.670
apparently Guy has the ring. So as much as cavalier
413
00:20:33.730 --> 00:20:35.730
as Hal is and how much he bucks the system,
414
00:20:36.230 --> 00:20:39.599
I kind of have to imagine guys even worse. So like,
415
00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:42.099
where is this series going? I think they are kind
416
00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:45.660
of setting up the guardians to be maybe a little
417
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:47.579
bit of, of villains, even though, you know, they have
418
00:20:47.619 --> 00:20:52.400
these intentions and expectations about what constitutes a good lantern.
419
00:20:52.910 --> 00:20:54.990
Maybe John's going to learn something from.
420
00:20:54.869 --> 00:20:57.650
How at the end of the day that, you know, you,
421
00:20:58.329 --> 00:21:01.630
you have, you have to listen to your heart rather than,
422
00:21:01.809 --> 00:21:04.170
you know, following orders. Because again, another line that comes
423
00:21:04.210 --> 00:21:06.660
to mind is, And I think you kind of referenced
424
00:21:06.700 --> 00:21:10.079
it when Laura Linney asked him, you know, you don't
425
00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:14.650
have any issues with this? Do these orders make you uncomfortable?
426
00:21:14.750 --> 00:21:17.910
And he responds, they're my orders. Whether or not they
427
00:21:17.930 --> 00:21:19.250
make me uncomfortable doesn't matter.
428
00:21:19.269 --> 00:21:24.279
Yep. Yep. And that's the thing. I think anyone watching
429
00:21:24.299 --> 00:21:28.660
this show that doesn't, like, immediately bristle at that response–
430
00:21:29.500 --> 00:21:32.940
is not paying attention well enough, I think. Like, that's
431
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:34.640
not a good response.
432
00:21:34.900 --> 00:21:35.839
No, no, absolutely not.
433
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:40.000
It might be a good response to her for their purposes,
434
00:21:40.059 --> 00:21:43.019
but it's not a good response. And, like, they don't
435
00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:47.380
need robots. They need lanterns who are going to, you know,
436
00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:51.440
have a heart and let themselves be guided by their empathy.
437
00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:56.339
And that touches on something we see through this episode.
438
00:21:56.380 --> 00:21:57.160
I think his art.
439
00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:58.900
Oh yeah.
440
00:21:59.299 --> 00:22:02.220
Is being used as this sort of token of his
441
00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:07.230
like humanity that he's, that he's squelching or whatever. And
442
00:22:07.269 --> 00:22:10.269
I love that he squashing, squashing. I think that's the
443
00:22:10.289 --> 00:22:15.970
word I'm looking for. And I think that that is
444
00:22:16.009 --> 00:22:20.119
supposed to show us his, his care and the fact
445
00:22:20.130 --> 00:22:22.900
that he loves birds. I think like his love for
446
00:22:22.940 --> 00:22:26.230
birds when he's five is, is translated in this sort
447
00:22:26.250 --> 00:22:30.369
of like very complex relationship with birds because his mom
448
00:22:30.430 --> 00:22:31.549
lies to him about the birds.
449
00:22:32.599 --> 00:22:32.839
Right.
450
00:22:33.170 --> 00:22:35.740
And then when he finally gets to use the ring
451
00:22:35.759 --> 00:22:39.180
and Hal has him try to fly, a bird is created,
452
00:22:39.220 --> 00:22:42.519
which now gives that way more context. Absolutely. Like, and
453
00:22:42.539 --> 00:22:44.460
so I think there's still just this core of him
454
00:22:44.529 --> 00:22:49.730
as a human, his art, his artistry, his, his love
455
00:22:49.769 --> 00:22:52.200
of birds that is still like a part of him.
456
00:22:53.380 --> 00:22:56.069
that is deep down. And it's, I think there's something
457
00:22:56.089 --> 00:22:57.829
that's trying to get out. You know what I mean?
458
00:22:58.069 --> 00:23:00.730
That's been like subdued by all this training that he's
459
00:23:00.750 --> 00:23:03.630
been experiencing since he was five. They tell him five
460
00:23:03.690 --> 00:23:05.710
is old enough to know you're about your destiny.
461
00:23:06.390 --> 00:23:06.609
Really?
462
00:23:06.650 --> 00:23:08.890
Since he's a baby, they say they, they even from
463
00:23:09.130 --> 00:23:11.329
zero to five, they were still like raising him differently
464
00:23:11.390 --> 00:23:13.720
and putting him in a different room, having him listen
465
00:23:13.740 --> 00:23:16.960
to different music. Like he's just a completely different child
466
00:23:17.140 --> 00:23:21.140
to them. And, and he is a, his dad says
467
00:23:21.180 --> 00:23:24.170
he's going to hate us. And she says, so be it,
468
00:23:24.269 --> 00:23:26.730
which is like, oof, it's rough.
469
00:23:26.750 --> 00:23:26.910
Yeah.
470
00:23:27.990 --> 00:23:31.589
Yeah. Which again, brings to mind the line, uh, when
471
00:23:31.630 --> 00:23:34.660
Laura Linney is interviewing him effectively again, and she says,
472
00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:36.339
you know, you're not going to miss your family. And
473
00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:38.920
he says, we lived in the same house for 18 years.
474
00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:42.039
I missed them the entire time. And that just brings
475
00:23:42.059 --> 00:23:45.470
to mind the title again, outcast while it's the musical reference.
476
00:23:45.490 --> 00:23:47.509
There's also, you know, he was an outcast within his
477
00:23:47.549 --> 00:23:51.319
own family. So, I was also kind of anticipating and
478
00:23:51.339 --> 00:23:53.099
we'll see where the season goes. Maybe it's still on
479
00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:57.069
the table, but this, you know, missing out this like
480
00:23:57.190 --> 00:24:01.609
longing and isolation that he experiences even with his own brothers. Like,
481
00:24:01.650 --> 00:24:04.089
you know, I, again, I'm not a black man, but I've,
482
00:24:04.349 --> 00:24:07.549
I've been in proximity with enough, you know, black people.
483
00:24:07.589 --> 00:24:09.609
Like I know it's, it's a thing to say, like,
484
00:24:09.710 --> 00:24:11.210
it's kind of insulting to say you're.
485
00:24:11.069 --> 00:24:11.730
Not really black.
486
00:24:11.769 --> 00:24:14.150
Like you're, you're white, you're whitewashed. You act like a
487
00:24:14.190 --> 00:24:17.190
white person. Like that's insulting to them. So for him
488
00:24:17.230 --> 00:24:20.609
to carry that, And again, with the religious trauma, I'm
489
00:24:20.650 --> 00:24:24.490
kind of wondering if we'll see more of the exploration
490
00:24:24.549 --> 00:24:27.589
of like his relationship with his brothers, because I'm kind
491
00:24:27.630 --> 00:24:30.829
of anticipating even with that, like that birthday sequence, even
492
00:24:30.849 --> 00:24:32.859
though it was like a green lantern jersey when they
493
00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:34.980
were hoping for another one. I was like, is this
494
00:24:35.000 --> 00:24:36.599
going to be like kind of like a Joseph and
495
00:24:36.619 --> 00:24:38.579
the coat of many colors kind of thing where he's
496
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:41.819
like the favored son to the chagrin of his other brothers,
497
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:44.369
even though They love him up until a certain age.
498
00:24:44.390 --> 00:24:46.289
Are they going to do something to betray him or
499
00:24:46.369 --> 00:24:48.990
resent him or abandon him in some fashion? Because they
500
00:24:49.009 --> 00:24:50.329
don't seem to be a part of the picture at all.
501
00:24:50.349 --> 00:24:55.869
And his mom doesn't either, at least in 2020. Actually, no,
502
00:24:55.890 --> 00:24:58.690
I take that back because we basically see he effectively
503
00:24:58.730 --> 00:25:01.809
goes from that scene with his mom and dad to
504
00:25:02.049 --> 00:25:04.430
being under Hal's tutelage there.
505
00:25:06.009 --> 00:25:08.829
Well, I will say, I think you're dead on. I
506
00:25:08.849 --> 00:25:10.829
think that could have been a really interesting thing to do.
507
00:25:11.309 --> 00:25:14.990
with the brothers. Um, and even like, uh, you know,
508
00:25:15.369 --> 00:25:17.549
if it were a different show and they're doing something different,
509
00:25:17.569 --> 00:25:19.609
I could see them doing something really cool with a brother. Like,
510
00:25:20.269 --> 00:25:22.430
you know, a brother, one brother being raised to be
511
00:25:23.029 --> 00:25:26.339
fearless while the other brothers being ignored could, could be
512
00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:30.000
a great, uh, uh, recipe for a villain or something.
513
00:25:30.059 --> 00:25:32.160
You know what I mean? Like his brother ends up
514
00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:34.660
with a yellow ring or something, you know, like, like
515
00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:37.059
that would be an interesting, it could be an interesting
516
00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:41.789
thing to go, but, The thing that I love, Aaron
517
00:25:41.809 --> 00:25:48.589
Pierre just absolutely killed it when she asks him, you
518
00:25:48.630 --> 00:25:51.190
would be closer to your brothers. Like, do you resent it?
519
00:25:51.190 --> 00:25:54.069
And he said, no. He's like, but you would be
520
00:25:54.089 --> 00:25:57.990
closer to your brothers. And the way he paused and
521
00:25:58.029 --> 00:26:01.049
the regret he showed on his face and the pain
522
00:26:01.410 --> 00:26:04.390
and just the way his voice warbled a little bit
523
00:26:04.430 --> 00:26:08.779
when he was like, yes. It was just It was
524
00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:12.910
so good that like that little bit of response gave
525
00:26:12.970 --> 00:26:15.990
me everything I need to know about his brothers and
526
00:26:16.029 --> 00:26:18.329
where their relationship went. You know, the division that was
527
00:26:18.369 --> 00:26:20.450
driven between them. I just thought that Aaron Pierre did
528
00:26:20.490 --> 00:26:25.240
that so perfectly and so well. So much was said
529
00:26:25.279 --> 00:26:27.960
with one syllable. Absolutely. I love it.
530
00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:28.279
Absolutely.
531
00:26:29.180 --> 00:26:31.859
And I really love that you brought up the art
532
00:26:31.940 --> 00:26:34.940
and the drawing because that's another thing that makes John
533
00:26:35.000 --> 00:26:36.720
so relatable to me is the fact that he is
534
00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:39.839
an artist at heart. Not only does it give some
535
00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:43.339
context to his ability to create these constructs that have
536
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:47.160
such great detail and memory to them, but it's also
537
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:49.549
kind of like what we were talking about previously. I
538
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:53.849
know the comics have various backgrounds for him, but to
539
00:26:53.890 --> 00:26:57.799
kind of take this sniper mentality but also this you
540
00:26:57.819 --> 00:27:00.339
know this artist is just kind of the perfect meshing
541
00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:03.299
for me and again it's so relatable because even though
542
00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:06.660
we're here on a podcast doing some something somewhat creative
543
00:27:07.099 --> 00:27:09.980
it's been a real conflict and struggle within my own
544
00:27:10.049 --> 00:27:12.009
life you know i want to be an artist i'd
545
00:27:12.049 --> 00:27:13.769
love to do a full time but you know i
546
00:27:13.809 --> 00:27:15.710
do have creature comfort so it's like do i want
547
00:27:15.730 --> 00:27:18.630
to be the the starving artist and really you know
548
00:27:18.869 --> 00:27:21.289
put it all into my art or am i willing
549
00:27:21.309 --> 00:27:24.789
to be quote unquote disciplined and, and buck to the
550
00:27:24.829 --> 00:27:26.670
system and do what I need to do to, you know,
551
00:27:26.930 --> 00:27:30.569
check these boxes to be what they call successful. Uh,
552
00:27:30.609 --> 00:27:31.970
and I, I get a lot of that from John.
553
00:27:32.029 --> 00:27:35.609
Like it's, it's the destiny that's been put before him
554
00:27:35.670 --> 00:27:39.109
versus what's he really, he really wants and has a
555
00:27:39.150 --> 00:27:40.250
natural aptitude for.
556
00:27:40.950 --> 00:27:45.210
Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, yeah, there's, there's definitely just like two
557
00:27:45.269 --> 00:27:47.990
sides of him pulling himself in different directions, but he
558
00:27:48.029 --> 00:27:51.720
seems to mostly just choose the one. I really love
559
00:27:51.740 --> 00:27:53.119
that his mom got the chance to send him to
560
00:27:53.180 --> 00:27:56.579
art school. Um, which was, was beautiful. And it's a
561
00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:57.140
great moment.
562
00:27:57.259 --> 00:27:59.380
Do you think she knew that it was a recruitment?
563
00:28:00.619 --> 00:28:01.900
No, I don't. Really?
564
00:28:01.980 --> 00:28:02.220
Okay.
565
00:28:02.420 --> 00:28:02.660
Okay.
566
00:28:03.019 --> 00:28:05.680
I guess her reaction after the fact would, would support
567
00:28:05.720 --> 00:28:06.440
that she didn't know.
568
00:28:07.089 --> 00:28:09.589
Yeah. Yeah. And how, and her, him running to tell
569
00:28:09.630 --> 00:28:13.049
her everything. I actually didn't think that was the recruitment. Um,
570
00:28:14.130 --> 00:28:16.509
I think that, I think that was, I'm not sure
571
00:28:16.549 --> 00:28:18.450
it didn't, I don't think it gave us years, but
572
00:28:18.490 --> 00:28:21.640
she says, go to art school. you're set up for
573
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:24.950
art school. That was a job, I believe, that he
574
00:28:24.970 --> 00:28:25.700
was going to apply for.
575
00:28:25.710 --> 00:28:27.309
Oh, so you think he'd already been to school?
576
00:28:27.349 --> 00:28:29.490
Yeah, I think he's already been through art school at
577
00:28:29.529 --> 00:28:29.750
that point.
578
00:28:29.769 --> 00:28:30.289
Yeah, that could be.
579
00:28:30.309 --> 00:28:35.579
I'm not 100%, but that's what it seemed like. He
580
00:28:35.710 --> 00:28:38.059
flunked out or got kicked out of the military for
581
00:28:39.460 --> 00:28:43.500
protecting the higher-ups from letting people know their foreign policy
582
00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:46.779
is run by drunk superheroes in titty bars, which is
583
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.950
a great line. So good. Yeah.
584
00:28:50.390 --> 00:28:52.950
It was nine months for nothing. It was what I
585
00:28:52.990 --> 00:28:54.130
wrote in my notes. And then I was like, no,
586
00:28:54.170 --> 00:28:58.910
it's worse than nothing. It's losing your job and becoming the, uh,
587
00:28:58.970 --> 00:28:59.650
the fall guy.
588
00:28:59.670 --> 00:29:03.579
Yeah. Yep. Yep. Which, sorry, so much to talk about.
589
00:29:03.619 --> 00:29:08.680
I'm like, I'm jumping around a lot, but, uh, the, um, the,
590
00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:11.220
that I, this episode has given me a lot of
591
00:29:11.299 --> 00:29:13.740
hope for the show too. I kind of, so the
592
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:15.940
first episode gate, we talked about how it did this
593
00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:17.779
out of time thing where it was jumping around a lot.
594
00:29:18.380 --> 00:29:20.140
And then the second episode just stayed in one, in,
595
00:29:20.700 --> 00:29:24.309
And I was kind of like, oh, that's a little bit, like,
596
00:29:24.329 --> 00:29:27.210
that's fine. I realized that that's the main story they're
597
00:29:27.230 --> 00:29:30.390
telling is this story of the town and everything. Sure.
598
00:29:30.430 --> 00:29:33.289
But I was hopeful we'd get more. And now that
599
00:29:33.309 --> 00:29:39.089
we've got a full episode of backstory of Jean-Pierre, of Jean-Stewart. Yeah.
600
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:41.400
I like Jean-Pierre.
601
00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:45.940
Yeah, Jean-Pierre. Sorry. I feel like it's very possible we
602
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:48.589
will get an episode. And maybe this is what we're
603
00:29:48.609 --> 00:29:51.630
talking about, like, maybe second to last or later in
604
00:29:51.670 --> 00:29:53.450
the season. Because I think we're going to live in
605
00:29:53.509 --> 00:29:55.970
this world for a minute of antagonism between the two
606
00:29:56.009 --> 00:29:59.640
of them. But at some point, Jon Stewart is going
607
00:29:59.660 --> 00:30:02.539
to learn why Hal pushed back on the Guardians and
608
00:30:02.619 --> 00:30:04.970
what he did. And we see it from far away
609
00:30:04.990 --> 00:30:07.750
this episode, that moment where he comes down and does
610
00:30:07.809 --> 00:30:11.670
whatever he's doing in Kamchatka or whatever. Yeah. But, like,
611
00:30:11.690 --> 00:30:14.200
I have a feeling we're going to see that from
612
00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:17.970
Jon Stewart. from Hal's perspective at some point. And if
613
00:30:18.029 --> 00:30:21.750
not that scene, that storyline, the different things where he's
614
00:30:21.769 --> 00:30:23.930
like having to push back on the guardians and stuff
615
00:30:23.950 --> 00:30:26.480
like that. Um, I think we're going to get more
616
00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:30.140
on why Hal is the way he is. And it's
617
00:30:30.180 --> 00:30:33.579
going to be a, uh, different experience. It's going to
618
00:30:33.619 --> 00:30:36.960
lead to a different experience for John learning those things. Yeah.
619
00:30:37.049 --> 00:30:40.349
I'd, I'd be really surprised if, if we don't. And, uh,
620
00:30:40.829 --> 00:30:45.089
that does bring to mind, uh, when I keep coming
621
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:48.569
back to this conversation because it was just so wrought
622
00:30:48.630 --> 00:30:52.210
with details and things to extrapolate there. But when Laura
623
00:30:52.230 --> 00:30:54.970
Linney was, was talking to Jon Stewart there and kind
624
00:30:55.009 --> 00:30:57.549
of giving him a little, or she asked him like,
625
00:30:57.589 --> 00:30:59.390
what do you know about Sinestro? And he's able to
626
00:30:59.430 --> 00:31:01.039
fill in the details again, that this is kind of
627
00:31:01.079 --> 00:31:04.000
like common knowledge amongst the general public, what went down
628
00:31:04.059 --> 00:31:07.640
between the guardians, Hal Jordan and Sinestro. Like she is
629
00:31:07.779 --> 00:31:10.660
very forthcoming about the fact that like, Hal still believes,
630
00:31:12.210 --> 00:31:14.890
Sinestro as like a father figure, a mentor. And I
631
00:31:14.930 --> 00:31:16.509
just thought that gave a lot of credence to what
632
00:31:16.569 --> 00:31:19.490
I brought up last week about, like, I think even
633
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:21.700
though there hasn't been a ton of time spent on it,
634
00:31:21.740 --> 00:31:24.480
I think how Jordan's performance is really leading me to
635
00:31:24.519 --> 00:31:28.539
believe that while he has embraced being a Green Lantern
636
00:31:28.579 --> 00:31:30.900
and prior to that, a test pilot, I think there's
637
00:31:30.940 --> 00:31:37.180
going to be a very intimate and serious conversation between
638
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:40.839
John and And, and how, when it comes to fathers
639
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:44.839
and their relationships with their fathers and, uh, unresolved trauma and,
640
00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:46.859
and Sinestro could even be a part of that being
641
00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:49.319
such a strong father figure for Hal at this point.
642
00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:52.880
Absolutely. I think that's, that's a huge, huge part of it.
643
00:31:52.910 --> 00:31:57.849
And I think the relationship between Jon Stewart, we, he says, uh,
644
00:31:58.730 --> 00:32:01.849
he says, it's strange that you still care for them
645
00:32:02.049 --> 00:32:03.829
after they, you know, raised you this way. And he says,
646
00:32:04.170 --> 00:32:07.089
it's human. We love the people who raise us, even
647
00:32:07.130 --> 00:32:10.490
if they're crazy. Yeah. And I think there's going to
648
00:32:10.509 --> 00:32:14.660
be a thing there with like, Hal is now raising
649
00:32:15.180 --> 00:32:18.960
John as a lantern. He's training him. He's teaching him,
650
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:21.960
even if it's in a way that is crazy. And
651
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.140
he's throwing the ring in a car to let him
652
00:32:24.220 --> 00:32:28.589
like fall off of a ravine or whatever. You know,
653
00:32:28.650 --> 00:32:31.329
he's kind of continuing that same sort of like insane
654
00:32:31.410 --> 00:32:35.250
raising of John Stewart. And like, I think there's going
655
00:32:35.269 --> 00:32:38.329
to be a development of sort of an affection for,
656
00:32:38.670 --> 00:32:40.589
for between the two of them that I'm, I'm looking
657
00:32:40.650 --> 00:32:46.150
forward to, honestly, I, I feel like, um, Hal knows
658
00:32:46.549 --> 00:32:49.650
that something is wrong because this is not how the
659
00:32:49.710 --> 00:32:52.829
ring is chosen. They don't do interviews, you know, John
660
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:54.630
Stewart knows that too. That's why, that's why they have
661
00:32:54.650 --> 00:32:57.319
that conversation. And so like from the beginning, we've known
662
00:32:57.400 --> 00:32:59.900
something is different. Something is wrong. And part of it
663
00:32:59.960 --> 00:33:02.160
has something to do with the good, one of the
664
00:33:02.200 --> 00:33:04.900
guardians or some of the guardians have died. Apparently, I
665
00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:08.970
guess at least one, At least one. Yeah. The line
666
00:33:09.019 --> 00:33:11.880
had a very, he said somehow, he said something like,
667
00:33:12.619 --> 00:33:14.859
I need to watch it with subtitles. Because he said
668
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:19.640
something like, there were 12 of you, but you died.
669
00:33:19.660 --> 00:33:23.250
And I was like, all 12? Or this one we're
670
00:33:23.269 --> 00:33:24.930
talking to died? Like, I'm really confused.
671
00:33:24.950 --> 00:33:27.049
I don't remember that specific line.
672
00:33:28.059 --> 00:33:30.220
It was somebody in there died. Some of, one or
673
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:33.099
more of the guardians have died. I remember when John.
674
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:35.740
Is recounting what he knows about Sinestra, he says Sinestra
675
00:33:35.779 --> 00:33:36.940
took out one of the guardians.
676
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:38.160
That I remember for sure.
677
00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:41.420
Okay. Gotcha. Uh, maybe he said one died.
678
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:44.480
One was the number that I had in my head.
679
00:33:44.500 --> 00:33:50.900
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So one of, one of them has died. Uh, this, uh, uh,
680
00:33:50.980 --> 00:33:54.900
so he, it could be explained away by like one
681
00:33:54.920 --> 00:33:56.890
of the guardians is dead. We're doing things a little differently.
682
00:33:56.910 --> 00:33:59.880
We're not going to, put risk putting another Sinestro in
683
00:33:59.900 --> 00:34:03.710
the core, you know, something like that. But the truth
684
00:34:03.789 --> 00:34:07.289
is they're wanting to stop Hal because they fear he
685
00:34:07.329 --> 00:34:10.989
might be another Sinestro. He still has this affection for Sinestro,
686
00:34:11.679 --> 00:34:14.960
which is lovely. I love how this episode was so
687
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:17.860
much about this family and so much about Jon Stewart
688
00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:20.409
being raised and but I feel like we've gotten so
689
00:34:20.429 --> 00:34:24.050
much more lore out of it. And like, there's just
690
00:34:24.110 --> 00:34:27.130
like in Watchmen, they sort of are stepping us into
691
00:34:27.150 --> 00:34:31.289
the fantastical, um, in a way that I really appreciate. Uh,
692
00:34:31.670 --> 00:34:33.750
you know, up until now we knew the green lantern
693
00:34:33.789 --> 00:34:35.969
ring worked. We knew there were aliens and like, we're
694
00:34:36.010 --> 00:34:37.769
starting to sort of just, it feels very much like
695
00:34:37.889 --> 00:34:43.090
almost like X files, like like very minimal, minimal, actual
696
00:34:43.250 --> 00:34:46.719
fantasy happening. And then this episode we get to where, uh,
697
00:34:47.619 --> 00:34:51.480
Hal Jordan gets approached, you know, well, first we got,
698
00:34:51.530 --> 00:34:53.570
we got the approach of the alien when he's a baby,
699
00:34:53.989 --> 00:34:55.949
which I loved. I loved the alien and her, her
700
00:34:55.969 --> 00:34:59.329
being like, he's, she says, uh, the aliens is, I
701
00:34:59.409 --> 00:35:03.329
find that my appearance upsets humans. And the mom says,
702
00:35:03.489 --> 00:35:06.469
I don't get upset. And then she transforms. And I
703
00:35:06.630 --> 00:35:07.360
loved that moment.
704
00:35:07.610 --> 00:35:10.679
Well, if I could just interject real quickly prior to that,
705
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:12.440
there was a, there was a, there was a lot
706
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:14.719
of like verbal sparring that, uh, even though they were,
707
00:35:14.739 --> 00:35:17.019
they were in separate scenes, they were connected scenes that
708
00:35:17.059 --> 00:35:20.000
I really appreciated because I think the first thing Laura
709
00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:24.420
Linney says to Jon Stewart in 2016 is, do you
710
00:35:24.460 --> 00:35:26.440
know who I am? Which is just a great opening
711
00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:29.619
line for a character actor is celebrated as Laura Linney
712
00:35:29.659 --> 00:35:32.530
because we were talking previously, like is the sheriff Laura Linney?
713
00:35:32.650 --> 00:35:32.989
I know.
714
00:35:33.380 --> 00:35:36.300
Once you see Laura Linney, you know it's Laura Linney.
715
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:37.860
So to say, do you know who I am was
716
00:35:37.880 --> 00:35:38.300
just great.
717
00:35:39.010 --> 00:35:42.829
Yeah, it is great. Yeah, no, I didn't know Laura
718
00:35:42.869 --> 00:35:44.769
Linney by name when I asked who's the sheriff. I
719
00:35:44.769 --> 00:35:46.650
was like, wait, is the sheriff Laura Linney? I know
720
00:35:46.690 --> 00:35:48.409
she's famous, but I don't know who that is. And
721
00:35:48.429 --> 00:35:50.170
then you reminded me it's the lady from Ozark.
722
00:35:50.190 --> 00:35:51.429
I was like, oh, right, right, right.
723
00:35:51.650 --> 00:35:53.010
So when she was seen here, I was like, there's
724
00:35:53.050 --> 00:35:53.510
Laura Linney.
725
00:35:54.510 --> 00:35:56.989
I loved the mom's response to, do you know who
726
00:35:57.050 --> 00:35:59.239
I am? She said, you look like an unfortunate white
727
00:35:59.280 --> 00:35:59.980
woman to me.
728
00:36:00.219 --> 00:36:05.409
Yeah. What else are you? Um, yeah, I, I, I,
729
00:36:05.710 --> 00:36:07.579
so they approach him as a baby. You get it.
730
00:36:08.190 --> 00:36:10.590
We see the green light in the bedroom. Then we
731
00:36:10.610 --> 00:36:14.369
see on, on, on John's face. Then we see the
732
00:36:14.409 --> 00:36:17.369
second encounter with aliens and you actually see the, from
733
00:36:17.409 --> 00:36:21.969
the back and alien. And then, uh, this guardian of
734
00:36:22.070 --> 00:36:24.909
some sort or servant of a guardian is at the,
735
00:36:25.010 --> 00:36:27.619
at the art school. And has him put on the
736
00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:29.780
ring and has him do this thing. And then they
737
00:36:29.820 --> 00:36:32.039
show this little portal on the floor. Like, it's just
738
00:36:32.059 --> 00:36:35.139
sort of like the fantastical elements are just sort of
739
00:36:35.159 --> 00:36:37.699
being dripped in. And it's to the point where we're
740
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:39.860
going to sit in it. And it's kind of the
741
00:36:39.900 --> 00:36:41.860
boiling frog thing where by the end of the series,
742
00:36:41.900 --> 00:36:45.239
I'm hoping we really do get like a full cosmic-y
743
00:36:45.300 --> 00:36:48.780
episode with Hal Jordan dealing with the Guardians and going
744
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:50.940
back and forth and figuring it. trying to make the
745
00:36:50.980 --> 00:36:55.050
decisions he needs to make and becoming dis affected as a,
746
00:36:55.349 --> 00:36:58.710
as a lantern and stopping wearing the uniform because of that,
747
00:36:58.829 --> 00:37:00.789
all that stuff. I'd love to see all that, but
748
00:37:00.849 --> 00:37:02.889
the way that they're starting it so human and just
749
00:37:02.909 --> 00:37:06.230
sort of bringing in those fantastical elements is really, I
750
00:37:06.289 --> 00:37:09.000
love it. I find it very effective. I agree.
751
00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:10.940
And I think all that's on the table, but in which,
752
00:37:11.500 --> 00:37:15.239
in what fashion will it be, uh, executed or broadcasted
753
00:37:15.260 --> 00:37:16.820
for us as the viewers that I get a little
754
00:37:16.860 --> 00:37:21.219
dubious about because, uh, I get the sense that that
755
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:23.639
was how else trajectory, but I think a lot of
756
00:37:23.659 --> 00:37:27.570
that is going to be imposed on John because again,
757
00:37:27.610 --> 00:37:31.989
like programming versus actually being raised and how can we
758
00:37:32.289 --> 00:37:35.150
salvage this relationship between how and Stuart, where he does
759
00:37:35.190 --> 00:37:36.829
feel like a passing of the torch. I think that's
760
00:37:36.869 --> 00:37:39.630
effectively what it's going to be is how we'll get
761
00:37:39.670 --> 00:37:41.989
the opportunity to raise him in some sense, to be
762
00:37:42.050 --> 00:37:45.769
who he is truly rather than just following orders or
763
00:37:45.789 --> 00:37:48.900
having this programming because Again, Laura Linney asked him the question,
764
00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:51.840
what's the difference between raising and programming? To John, there
765
00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:54.079
really is no difference. He doesn't know the difference, which
766
00:37:54.119 --> 00:37:56.400
he responds in kind to there.
767
00:37:56.480 --> 00:37:58.599
So again, another.
768
00:38:00.170 --> 00:38:02.150
Following that same kind of through line, a thought that
769
00:38:02.190 --> 00:38:04.050
I had as you were kind of laying all that
770
00:38:04.130 --> 00:38:07.090
out is to come back to the title of the show,
771
00:38:07.150 --> 00:38:09.929
the fact that they decided to call it Lanterns rather
772
00:38:09.949 --> 00:38:11.590
than Green Lanterns. And I think when I started to
773
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:14.739
go down this thought trail is when you likened it
774
00:38:14.780 --> 00:38:18.230
to X-Files because X-Files, What does a lantern do? A
775
00:38:18.269 --> 00:38:22.289
lantern shines light on something. It exposes from the darkness.
776
00:38:22.650 --> 00:38:25.329
I'm feeling more and more that the Guardians are going
777
00:38:25.349 --> 00:38:28.550
to be painted as more of maybe not the ultimate villains,
778
00:38:28.610 --> 00:38:29.170
but just.
779
00:38:30.670 --> 00:38:33.610
Trying to hold too many reins to a fault.
780
00:38:34.210 --> 00:38:36.510
Really, we only know about the Green Lanterns in the
781
00:38:36.550 --> 00:38:39.010
context of the show, but again, it is called Lanterns.
782
00:38:39.050 --> 00:38:43.289
Maybe we'll end this series with the Guardians were only
783
00:38:43.409 --> 00:38:46.780
utilizing the Green Lanterns because it was a dogged... kind
784
00:38:46.820 --> 00:38:48.920
of control that they had over it. But in reality,
785
00:38:49.539 --> 00:38:53.059
the full spectrum of lanterns should be out in full
786
00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:55.059
force and kind of counterbalance each other.
787
00:38:55.119 --> 00:39:00.579
Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. That's really interesting. Yeah, I
788
00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:02.219
like that idea. I love the idea of all the
789
00:39:02.239 --> 00:39:05.469
different lantern cores and how they interact and what they
790
00:39:05.530 --> 00:39:09.630
mean and all that stuff. Obviously, green and yellow are
791
00:39:09.650 --> 00:39:12.630
the big two that I feel I get talked about most.
792
00:39:13.090 --> 00:39:13.630
I've seen.
793
00:39:14.449 --> 00:39:16.780
A lot of online speculation that the character that we
794
00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:19.539
saw in last week's episode that was the leader of
795
00:39:19.619 --> 00:39:23.380
the group of aliens abducting John, that that could be,
796
00:39:24.139 --> 00:39:26.030
I think his name was Anton.
797
00:39:25.449 --> 00:39:27.440
With like two A's. Yeah.
798
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:30.639
People are people are suggesting that he could be a
799
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:33.639
precursor for atrocities. Who's like probably the most famous of
800
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:34.760
the red, red lanterns.
801
00:39:35.099 --> 00:39:36.380
Oh, red lanterns. Okay, cool.
802
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:36.619
Yeah.
803
00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:39.150
I love, I love the idea of getting to know
804
00:39:39.210 --> 00:39:42.809
the other lantern cores in this. Um, that'd be really,
805
00:39:42.849 --> 00:39:47.429
really rad. Um, but I have always felt like at
806
00:39:47.449 --> 00:39:49.610
least the green and yellow, I've not read a lot
807
00:39:49.630 --> 00:39:51.510
of Green Lantern. I have a little bit of red
808
00:39:51.570 --> 00:39:53.510
and seen, I always got the vibe that like the
809
00:39:53.570 --> 00:39:55.800
green and yellow are very much like light side and
810
00:39:55.820 --> 00:39:58.099
dark side of the force or something, you know, like
811
00:39:58.119 --> 00:40:01.219
good guys, bad guys. And I always say that with
812
00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:04.219
Star Wars, I want something a little more gray, a
813
00:40:04.420 --> 00:40:07.579
little more like something in the middle. You're traveling back
814
00:40:07.619 --> 00:40:10.420
and forth between those two poles. You're not always one
815
00:40:10.460 --> 00:40:13.139
or the other. And I think that would be really
816
00:40:13.159 --> 00:40:17.230
interesting here to like, Same thing with like, obviously, even
817
00:40:17.250 --> 00:40:19.710
all the way to like Harry Potter, like they always
818
00:40:19.809 --> 00:40:23.550
treat Slytherin as like the bad guys. And I'm like, no,
819
00:40:23.590 --> 00:40:26.190
Slytherins are just a different like personality type. They don't
820
00:40:26.210 --> 00:40:26.599
have to be bad.
821
00:40:26.610 --> 00:40:27.869
Some of my favorite people are Slytherins.
822
00:40:28.210 --> 00:40:35.590
Yeah, yeah. So it's like, I always like when they
823
00:40:36.050 --> 00:40:39.059
get a little deeper into like what is this different
824
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:43.820
sect of whatever the magic verse we're in. And I'd
825
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:46.260
love to see that here. And we've already got Sinestro
826
00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:48.469
showing up. So like, I think we'll get a chance
827
00:40:48.510 --> 00:40:51.510
to see what happens. I think we'll get a chance
828
00:40:51.530 --> 00:40:55.809
to see what the intergalactic politics of all the situation was.
829
00:40:55.949 --> 00:40:56.670
I really hope so.
830
00:40:56.909 --> 00:40:59.329
Yeah. I really hope so too. Like I haven't really
831
00:40:59.389 --> 00:41:03.949
hoped so till now because I think I expected this
832
00:41:03.989 --> 00:41:05.210
to be a more grounded show.
833
00:41:05.889 --> 00:41:06.110
Sure.
834
00:41:06.969 --> 00:41:09.329
But the way they were able to handle such so
835
00:41:09.369 --> 00:41:12.440
much exposition this episode with such a grounded episode is,
836
00:41:12.690 --> 00:41:17.170
That gave us just enough galactic exposition. I'm like, oh,
837
00:41:17.230 --> 00:41:18.570
they might be doing more than I thought.
838
00:41:18.590 --> 00:41:19.760
They might be.
839
00:41:20.199 --> 00:41:22.260
We've had complaints. I mean, you know, people have been
840
00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:24.079
complaining about the trailer. Ever since the trailer came out,
841
00:41:24.099 --> 00:41:26.139
how there's not enough green in it. You know, he's
842
00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:30.280
not in the costume. Everything's just too dingy. It's not
843
00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:33.300
Green Lantern. Why is he not in the suit? All
844
00:41:33.340 --> 00:41:37.110
that stuff. And like, you know, that's why. I think
845
00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:38.809
they're like holding it back. I think they're giving us
846
00:41:38.829 --> 00:41:41.340
this grounded show to lure us in. And then you
847
00:41:41.380 --> 00:41:43.079
hit us with the, uh, I mean, this is the
848
00:41:43.099 --> 00:41:45.559
guy who, who was involved in lost, you know, like
849
00:41:45.579 --> 00:41:50.280
a show that started about like a, uh, starts about
850
00:41:50.300 --> 00:41:52.579
a bunch of people that crash land on an Island.
851
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:55.099
But by the end you're doing like time travel and
852
00:41:55.360 --> 00:41:59.059
alternate universes and blah, blah, blah, blah.
853
00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:01.760
I mean, Watchmen in much the same way as I, again,
854
00:42:01.780 --> 00:42:03.280
it's been a while since I've rewatched that one, but
855
00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:06.329
we start in a small town kind of setting. And
856
00:42:06.389 --> 00:42:08.130
if I'm not mistaken, by the end of that episode,
857
00:42:08.150 --> 00:42:11.579
we're on like Europa, the moon of Jupiter, uh, Oh yeah.
858
00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:12.199
Yeah. Yeah.
859
00:42:12.420 --> 00:42:14.760
But I, I guess to, uh, because this is one
860
00:42:14.780 --> 00:42:16.380
of my notes and I don't have a better segue
861
00:42:16.420 --> 00:42:18.280
to tie it in, but while we're talking about the
862
00:42:18.340 --> 00:42:20.969
DC universe at large and some of the, you know,
863
00:42:20.989 --> 00:42:24.710
potential rippling ramifications here, uh, one that may or may
864
00:42:24.750 --> 00:42:28.110
not have implications here, but, uh, as soon as they said,
865
00:42:28.550 --> 00:42:31.289
you know, this, uh, this target that John had his,
866
00:42:31.469 --> 00:42:32.960
his code name was gray wolf. I was like, Oh,
867
00:42:32.969 --> 00:42:34.809
that's gotta be a DC character. So I had to
868
00:42:34.969 --> 00:42:38.170
Google it real quickly. And indeed, uh, gray wolf is
869
00:42:38.230 --> 00:42:42.889
a DC comics character. He's, A Chechen operative who's associated
870
00:42:42.929 --> 00:42:46.590
with Batman Incorporated or Batman Inc. So I do get
871
00:42:46.610 --> 00:42:49.630
the sense that he's a pretty obscure character, but is
872
00:42:49.670 --> 00:42:53.650
this a small breadcrumb to lead us to the Batman
873
00:42:53.690 --> 00:42:54.590
of the DCU?
874
00:42:55.250 --> 00:42:57.639
Yeah. Why not? Why not? I love it.
875
00:42:58.170 --> 00:42:59.170
Hal saved him for a reason.
876
00:43:00.150 --> 00:43:04.050
Yeah. Yeah. So much good stuff in this episode. I really...
877
00:43:04.190 --> 00:43:06.130
Favorite episode so far, and I feel like it's got
878
00:43:06.170 --> 00:43:10.340
me locked in on what the show is and you know,
879
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:12.800
the relationships like I was talking about earlier. Um, and
880
00:43:12.860 --> 00:43:17.280
I loved the little, like, I don't like using the
881
00:43:17.300 --> 00:43:22.699
term mystery box because like it, you've heard the mystery
882
00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:24.000
box speech, right? Oh yeah. Yeah.
883
00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:25.920
JJ Abrams is famous for it.
884
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:29.019
Which, you know, Damon Lindelof and JJ Abrams, very connected
885
00:43:29.059 --> 00:43:32.059
through lost and everything. And they worked on other things too. Um,
886
00:43:33.320 --> 00:43:38.199
I just, I love them. I love the mystery box feeling, um,
887
00:43:39.070 --> 00:43:41.579
When it has a payoff. And J.J. Abrams' problem is,
888
00:43:41.599 --> 00:43:44.860
if you hear him talk about it, he literally doesn't
889
00:43:44.940 --> 00:43:47.039
care if there's a payoff. Right. He just thinks the
890
00:43:47.079 --> 00:43:49.360
mystery is important, which is true. The mystery is all
891
00:43:49.380 --> 00:43:51.940
that's important to keep people watching. But to get a
892
00:43:51.980 --> 00:43:55.409
satisfying ending, you need to know what's in the box. 100%.
893
00:43:55.409 --> 00:43:56.690
What's in the box.
894
00:43:59.110 --> 00:44:02.190
And I love the way this episode's structured with him
895
00:44:02.269 --> 00:44:04.949
falling onto the mattresses at the very beginning. And then
896
00:44:04.969 --> 00:44:06.449
walking into an old mall.
897
00:44:06.469 --> 00:44:06.929
Yeah.
898
00:44:07.469 --> 00:44:11.170
Like the little tests they're doing, like I said, I
899
00:44:11.210 --> 00:44:12.929
was trying to get through this earlier, but like this,
900
00:44:12.969 --> 00:44:15.769
like three times he's encountered the guardians in his life.
901
00:44:16.550 --> 00:44:21.179
Once as a baby, once at this art job where
902
00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:24.559
he finds out it's actually a lantern appointment and he
903
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:27.039
has to do the watch, which we got to talk
904
00:44:27.059 --> 00:44:31.059
about the watch in a second. And then thirdly, now
905
00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:36.570
he's meeting with Laura Linney. like it's just, I love
906
00:44:36.630 --> 00:44:39.010
this just sort of like the mystery of this like
907
00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:44.260
covert organization working in the shadows. And like, why is
908
00:44:44.300 --> 00:44:46.460
he falling onto the mattresses? And then we find out
909
00:44:46.579 --> 00:44:48.360
why he falls onto the mattresses. You know, it's just,
910
00:44:48.440 --> 00:44:51.079
it's very like, I love the, I love the way
911
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:53.900
that's structured. And why is he in this empty mall? Like,
912
00:44:53.940 --> 00:44:55.679
what does it mean? Why is, why is he willing
913
00:44:55.719 --> 00:44:58.800
to wait 24 hours for this person who just said,
914
00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:01.659
sit down, I'll be right back. And then doesn't say anything.
915
00:45:01.699 --> 00:45:04.539
And he waits for 24 hours, you know, like, Why
916
00:45:04.579 --> 00:45:05.909
is he willing to do it? And then his entire
917
00:45:06.010 --> 00:45:08.710
character is why he's willing to do that. His entire
918
00:45:08.769 --> 00:45:11.110
life has led to this moment. Of course he's not
919
00:45:11.150 --> 00:45:13.989
getting up, you know? I just, I loved it. I
920
00:45:14.010 --> 00:45:18.280
thought it was so well done and so mystery boxy,
921
00:45:18.320 --> 00:45:20.400
for lack of a better term, the way the episode
922
00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:24.840
is structured, but in a way that pays off as beautiful.
923
00:45:25.179 --> 00:45:27.400
I'm really glad you brought up that scene about him
924
00:45:27.500 --> 00:45:31.230
falling into the mattresses and just the structure of the
925
00:45:31.269 --> 00:45:35.329
episode in that regard, because yeah, I... immediately thought 12 monkeys,
926
00:45:35.409 --> 00:45:37.429
just like, you know, you start the episode off with
927
00:45:37.510 --> 00:45:41.000
like this inexplicable introduction, then kind of come back to
928
00:45:41.039 --> 00:45:42.119
make it full circle.
929
00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:44.159
And the, the end is the beginning.
930
00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:47.219
Um, so that was really well done, but I, I
931
00:45:47.260 --> 00:45:50.119
kind of loved everything about that setup because the 12
932
00:45:50.119 --> 00:45:52.820
monkeys comparisons, I was also feeling a little bit like
933
00:45:52.900 --> 00:45:55.949
severance in terms of like the guardians kind of like
934
00:45:56.590 --> 00:45:59.750
presenting in this like corporate interview kind of way. Uh,
935
00:46:00.349 --> 00:46:02.409
just really tickled my brain in a, in a super
936
00:46:02.449 --> 00:46:03.190
satisfying way.
937
00:46:03.599 --> 00:46:08.079
Yeah. I love that kind of stuff where is we're
938
00:46:08.099 --> 00:46:14.050
talking about, you know, an intergalactic magic ring space force.
939
00:46:15.269 --> 00:46:19.130
And it starts with just like a lady sitting across
940
00:46:19.150 --> 00:46:21.809
the table. You know what I mean? Like, I love that. Like,
941
00:46:21.829 --> 00:46:24.590
cause you think about it, like, how would you do this?
942
00:46:24.769 --> 00:46:27.309
And it's like, when that ring appears on the floor,
943
00:46:27.329 --> 00:46:29.230
I was like, Oh, are they taking them to space?
944
00:46:29.269 --> 00:46:31.010
So they take, no, they're taking them to an old
945
00:46:31.090 --> 00:46:34.449
mall where he gets interviewed by like a very You know,
946
00:46:35.610 --> 00:46:36.989
what did his mom call her again?
947
00:46:37.010 --> 00:46:39.460
An unfortunate looking white woman.
948
00:46:39.519 --> 00:46:50.059
Yeah. Oh, man. You said it, not me. Oh, man.
949
00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:51.780
Let's see. I got a couple of things. So, we
950
00:46:51.860 --> 00:46:54.900
were talking about the watch. I did want to mention. Oh, yeah, yeah.
951
00:46:55.760 --> 00:47:02.179
You know, I know... He says you have to be
952
00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:06.179
able to imagine everything within it to make it work properly.
953
00:47:08.820 --> 00:47:13.679
I can imagine a watch, a detailed watch. I don't
954
00:47:13.739 --> 00:47:16.659
know how a watch works. Like, I don't know how
955
00:47:16.699 --> 00:47:19.480
to build the cogs of a watch. That is, he
956
00:47:19.519 --> 00:47:23.079
would have to be like a expert watchmaker to also
957
00:47:23.179 --> 00:47:25.980
build that watch properly. I thought that was weird. And
958
00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:28.900
it kind of is a bad setup for the future watch.
959
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:31.900
of green lantern. Cause now every time he creates something,
960
00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:34.400
he doesn't have to just imagine it working, how it's
961
00:47:34.420 --> 00:47:38.429
supposed to work. He has to imagine how it's supposed
962
00:47:38.469 --> 00:47:41.340
to work. You know what I mean? Like that's a,
963
00:47:41.349 --> 00:47:44.869
that's not a great, uh, like, uh, I don't know.
964
00:47:44.949 --> 00:47:45.750
Precedent to set.
965
00:47:45.789 --> 00:47:48.269
I felt like not, I thought I had, but you're,
966
00:47:48.469 --> 00:47:49.239
you're not wrong.
967
00:47:49.610 --> 00:47:51.800
Now it's making me think like, so he understands the
968
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:53.219
entire anatomy of a bird.
969
00:47:53.239 --> 00:47:53.309
Yes.
970
00:47:53.820 --> 00:47:54.619
Intimately well.
971
00:47:54.739 --> 00:47:59.820
Exactly. Or think about Guy Gardner, like doing hands, flicking
972
00:47:59.860 --> 00:48:02.320
people off and stuff. Like as he has to imagine
973
00:48:02.820 --> 00:48:05.719
all of the like capillaries in the hand as it
974
00:48:05.780 --> 00:48:07.340
raises up from the ground, you know.
975
00:48:08.559 --> 00:48:09.800
He's got a thing for phalanges.
976
00:48:10.769 --> 00:48:14.739
He, that he does. He does. Um, I know we
977
00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:16.659
already talked about the programming lines a little bit, but
978
00:48:16.699 --> 00:48:18.940
I did like the one where she's like, your isolation
979
00:48:19.039 --> 00:48:22.159
is in conflict with your programming. And he doesn't really
980
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:25.480
respond to that because he then asks like, we're not programmed,
981
00:48:25.619 --> 00:48:28.539
we're raised. And she, and then the whole, what is
982
00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:32.699
the difference? But like the point was your isolation that
983
00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:36.460
you have been pushed to, because like his dad said,
984
00:48:36.500 --> 00:48:40.690
he's going to hate us. Um, the isolation that he
985
00:48:40.730 --> 00:48:44.610
feels and the loneliness that he feels is like going
986
00:48:44.650 --> 00:48:48.050
to push him is pushing against his programming and against
987
00:48:48.889 --> 00:48:51.360
who he, who, what a human is basically. And I
988
00:48:51.380 --> 00:48:54.460
thought that was really talking about the religious trauma of
989
00:48:54.500 --> 00:48:56.920
it all. Like that is so directly what, what that's
990
00:48:56.980 --> 00:48:57.880
talking about, you know?
991
00:48:58.519 --> 00:49:00.079
Yeah.
992
00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:00.300
100%.
993
00:49:00.300 --> 00:49:04.599
Okay. This was so well set up the moment where
994
00:49:04.619 --> 00:49:09.179
he shoots at his mom's head. Oh yeah. Gripping. So gripping.
995
00:49:09.989 --> 00:49:14.369
And particularly gripping because they did this really smart thing
996
00:49:14.389 --> 00:49:17.389
in the first episode of showing us this happen and
997
00:49:17.510 --> 00:49:18.889
not showing his mom around.
998
00:49:18.909 --> 00:49:19.010
Right.
999
00:49:20.719 --> 00:49:23.460
So that when they did that scene, you're like, she's
1000
00:49:23.480 --> 00:49:26.389
going to die right here. She is going to die.
1001
00:49:26.809 --> 00:49:30.570
And like, I was so ready for her to die.
1002
00:49:30.630 --> 00:49:34.550
I was like 99% sure she was gone. Right. And
1003
00:49:34.570 --> 00:49:37.059
then when she didn't. It worked really well for me
1004
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:41.739
because I still got all of the blood pumping, like
1005
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:44.449
you said, gripping, just the drama of it was all there.
1006
00:49:45.090 --> 00:49:47.690
And then she didn't. And it was beautiful. And then
1007
00:49:47.809 --> 00:49:50.530
her getting to live into later life and getting to
1008
00:49:50.550 --> 00:49:51.769
send him to art school and all that stuff was
1009
00:49:51.809 --> 00:49:54.429
so nice when I really thought that where we were
1010
00:49:54.469 --> 00:49:56.449
going was he's going to shoot his mom.
1011
00:49:57.360 --> 00:49:58.170
I was right there with you.
1012
00:49:58.179 --> 00:50:00.440
And I think that's part of what made that sequence
1013
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:03.860
so gripping is it was a great exercise in ramping
1014
00:50:03.980 --> 00:50:07.909
up expectations just to kind of subvert them because across
1015
00:50:07.969 --> 00:50:10.170
from the bird, like at first I was, I was
1016
00:50:10.590 --> 00:50:12.369
a hundred percent in on it. He's going to have
1017
00:50:12.409 --> 00:50:14.869
to shoot the bird, like the birds on the bird cake.
1018
00:50:14.889 --> 00:50:16.969
We know from the past episode, he has this connection
1019
00:50:16.989 --> 00:50:19.409
to the bird. They're talking about what a crack shot
1020
00:50:19.429 --> 00:50:20.769
he is. Okay. He's going to have to take out
1021
00:50:20.789 --> 00:50:22.670
this bird. Oh no, he's not going to have to
1022
00:50:22.710 --> 00:50:24.789
take out this bird. He's going to accidentally take out
1023
00:50:24.829 --> 00:50:25.469
his mom.
1024
00:50:25.889 --> 00:50:26.139
Yeah.
1025
00:50:26.380 --> 00:50:29.780
Um, so yeah, I, I agree with you. What a excellent,
1026
00:50:29.960 --> 00:50:32.619
excellent scene. That's just part of a, an excellent show.
1027
00:50:33.159 --> 00:50:37.840
Yeah. Really beautifully put together. Um, I have my notes
1028
00:50:37.860 --> 00:50:42.260
and I don't hardly have a great, um, context for it,
1029
00:50:42.269 --> 00:50:45.829
but I really enjoyed the, like sometimes her telling him,
1030
00:50:45.889 --> 00:50:49.449
like as, as a black person, sometimes you have to,
1031
00:50:50.210 --> 00:50:52.369
you have to raise your own hand. You have to
1032
00:50:52.409 --> 00:50:55.150
step in and do the thing. No one's picking you.
1033
00:50:55.659 --> 00:50:57.719
And then she's, we make ourselves seen.
1034
00:50:58.239 --> 00:50:58.480
Yes.
1035
00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:04.010
Um, and I thought it's just such a, An interesting
1036
00:51:05.929 --> 00:51:09.820
point about, uh, like, like, like a, like a, a,
1037
00:51:10.909 --> 00:51:14.039
a bigotry that we don't think about, you know, I mean,
1038
00:51:14.079 --> 00:51:16.260
we do, but not from that, not in that way.
1039
00:51:16.340 --> 00:51:20.980
Like you think about the, the number of people in
1040
00:51:21.019 --> 00:51:25.059
this world, white people, particularly, um, who are gifted their
1041
00:51:25.099 --> 00:51:28.699
dad's business or, you know, their parents' business or whatever.
1042
00:51:28.739 --> 00:51:31.960
It's like, you're just past something's passed down to you
1043
00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:35.360
or money or this or that. Like there's just something
1044
00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:39.420
that's handed to your connections or family, friends, all this stuff,
1045
00:51:39.480 --> 00:51:42.570
country club, blah, blah, blah. And I, I'm a poor fella.
1046
00:51:42.590 --> 00:51:45.969
I don't have any of that either, but I, but
1047
00:51:46.110 --> 00:51:51.190
I ain't no fortunate son, but I, I found that really, um,
1048
00:51:53.139 --> 00:51:55.900
like sometimes we have to raise our own hand, you know,
1049
00:51:55.920 --> 00:51:58.840
we have to make ourselves seen. And I, as a poor,
1050
00:51:59.260 --> 00:52:01.539
I do, I do feel that even though, uh, I
1051
00:52:01.579 --> 00:52:03.039
don't have, I don't have some of the other, uh,
1052
00:52:03.880 --> 00:52:06.059
I don't have the other lacks of privilege that they're
1053
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:07.960
talking about here. I do, I do still feel like
1054
00:52:07.980 --> 00:52:10.500
that's an inspiring line. Like sometimes you just got to
1055
00:52:10.519 --> 00:52:12.039
step up and do the thing you got to do,
1056
00:52:12.119 --> 00:52:14.320
you know, to, to make your, to make your own,
1057
00:52:14.500 --> 00:52:19.179
make your own, uh, life, you know, build your own life. Yeah.
1058
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:21.690
And to have your voice be heard, um, which, um,
1059
00:52:22.360 --> 00:52:24.960
that that particular part of the sentiment kind of brought
1060
00:52:24.980 --> 00:52:27.260
to mind and it's just interesting to see how you
1061
00:52:27.300 --> 00:52:30.860
know dc and marvel so often they're compared and contrasted
1062
00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:32.989
but i think this is a an example where you
1063
00:52:33.030 --> 00:52:35.389
can see them trying to do the same thing and
1064
00:52:35.889 --> 00:52:37.690
there's an argument to be made for you know how
1065
00:52:37.750 --> 00:52:40.889
effective it is but that whole speech about you know
1066
00:52:40.909 --> 00:52:42.630
you have to raise your own hand you have to
1067
00:52:42.650 --> 00:52:44.710
give yourself a voice um it did kind of make
1068
00:52:44.750 --> 00:52:47.469
me think about at the end of uh Falcon and
1069
00:52:47.489 --> 00:52:50.349
the Winter Soldier, when Sam finally suits up in the
1070
00:52:50.670 --> 00:52:53.030
new Captain America garb, and he has that speech about like,
1071
00:52:53.690 --> 00:52:53.989
you know.
1072
00:52:54.789 --> 00:52:55.550
Who's in the room?
1073
00:52:56.130 --> 00:52:58.199
Who's in the room making this decision with you? Who
1074
00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:01.400
has the voice? And I do think that this one
1075
00:53:01.860 --> 00:53:05.679
was probably a little more effectively done, but I haven't
1076
00:53:05.719 --> 00:53:07.639
revisited Falcon and the Winter Soldier in a while, but
1077
00:53:07.820 --> 00:53:09.099
it did bring that to mind.
1078
00:53:09.699 --> 00:53:13.199
No, that's interesting. Well, even just the character action that's
1079
00:53:13.239 --> 00:53:15.989
taken at the end of that season, which is him
1080
00:53:16.050 --> 00:53:20.730
becoming Captain America and no one else gives him the.
1081
00:53:21.250 --> 00:53:21.869
He has to take it.
1082
00:53:21.869 --> 00:53:24.389
Yeah. Yeah. Like no one else wants him to have it. They,
1083
00:53:24.409 --> 00:53:27.429
they choose John Walker. And then after John Walker, there's
1084
00:53:27.449 --> 00:53:29.449
not a new, they don't call him up. Like he
1085
00:53:29.489 --> 00:53:32.320
just gets a suit from Wakanda and says, I'm Captain
1086
00:53:32.360 --> 00:53:35.360
America now. And you know, sometimes you, he has, you
1087
00:53:35.469 --> 00:53:39.019
have to raise your own hand. Um, yeah, that's, that's,
1088
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:42.840
that's a really interesting parallel. I like that. Um, I just,
1089
00:53:42.860 --> 00:53:44.380
this is just the last line. I have my notes
1090
00:53:44.420 --> 00:53:47.739
and I liked it. Since when did you care if
1091
00:53:47.800 --> 00:53:50.389
I was happy? And it could have been played for drama.
1092
00:53:50.769 --> 00:53:53.070
It really could have been. This moment where he's finally
1093
00:53:53.590 --> 00:53:57.769
confronting his mom about the hardship she's put him through.
1094
00:53:57.789 --> 00:54:01.690
And instead she says, you still mad about those crayons?
1095
00:54:02.610 --> 00:54:10.139
It's just so good. It's just so good. I love it. Yeah. Yeah.
1096
00:54:10.699 --> 00:54:11.659
Somewhat connected.
1097
00:54:11.679 --> 00:54:11.760
Yeah.
1098
00:54:12.539 --> 00:54:16.090
But not entirely. But the last line, it's not even
1099
00:54:16.130 --> 00:54:16.449
a line.
1100
00:54:16.469 --> 00:54:19.349
But just a note that I had here is I've
1101
00:54:19.369 --> 00:54:22.650
been talking about throughout this entire episode how relatable I
1102
00:54:22.690 --> 00:54:24.730
found John to be for multiple reasons.
1103
00:54:24.789 --> 00:54:27.929
But one thing that was just inherently unrelatable to me
1104
00:54:28.030 --> 00:54:30.559
is when he said he hates cheeseburgers.
1105
00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:31.420
Yeah.
1106
00:54:31.920 --> 00:54:35.360
Who hates cheeseburgers? Even if you're a vegan, a vegetarian.
1107
00:54:35.380 --> 00:54:41.590
Yeah. Eating? Yeah. Cheeseburgers are wonderful. I don't know what
1108
00:54:41.610 --> 00:54:46.130
his deal is. He's a vegetarian, a vegan. So I
1109
00:54:46.170 --> 00:54:49.070
get it. I get like if it grosses you out
1110
00:54:49.110 --> 00:54:49.550
or something.
1111
00:54:49.869 --> 00:54:52.929
Reminds me, I have a cousin that I haven't seen
1112
00:54:52.969 --> 00:54:55.659
in many, many years, but growing up, like we spent
1113
00:54:55.840 --> 00:54:59.320
time together in our very young formative years, like five, six, seven.
1114
00:54:59.360 --> 00:55:02.500
And she famously did not like pizza so it's like
1115
00:55:02.559 --> 00:55:04.960
everybody else was down for pizza and like no page
1116
00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:07.880
doesn't want pizza sorry not your page but not my
1117
00:55:07.920 --> 00:55:12.179
page page doesn't want pizza my my wife is your
1118
00:55:12.219 --> 00:55:16.639
cousin i hope crazy what would really impact me all
1119
00:55:16.659 --> 00:55:19.440
that much i guess yeah that'd be weird yeah yeah
1120
00:55:19.739 --> 00:55:21.780
your cousin's not a problem it's my cousin that's a
1121
00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:26.969
problem i like you're like i hope not oh wait
1122
00:55:27.010 --> 00:55:29.969
no never mind we're different people we're different human beings.
1123
00:55:31.329 --> 00:55:37.349
It's really funny. All right. Well, uh, you got anything
1124
00:55:37.449 --> 00:55:39.110
else on, uh.
1125
00:55:39.210 --> 00:55:40.730
I think I've said everything I wanted to say on
1126
00:55:40.769 --> 00:55:43.750
this one, just a great episode, continuing to enjoy the
1127
00:55:43.809 --> 00:55:45.289
show and this, this season.
1128
00:55:45.929 --> 00:55:49.679
Yeah. And if anyone, uh, if anyone writes in, uh,
1129
00:55:49.719 --> 00:55:51.980
if we get a few feedbacks or something, we would, I'd,
1130
00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:54.079
I'd hop on and do it solo or me and
1131
00:55:54.239 --> 00:55:56.599
Jay Scott, you can hop on and do it together. Um,
1132
00:55:56.679 --> 00:55:59.039
either way. Uh, so if you got some feedback, send
1133
00:55:59.079 --> 00:56:02.969
it to stranded panda network, at gmail.com. And I'm going
1134
00:56:02.989 --> 00:56:04.989
to confirm that for some reason, my brain just went,
1135
00:56:05.250 --> 00:56:09.110
is that right? Yeah. Strand dependent network at gmail.com. Um, we,
1136
00:56:09.150 --> 00:56:10.769
we have gotten it every once in a while. We'll
1137
00:56:10.789 --> 00:56:13.650
get a, we'll get a always watching as a smaller show.
1138
00:56:13.730 --> 00:56:15.809
And so we'll get a feedback here and there, but
1139
00:56:15.829 --> 00:56:16.989
a lot of times it's just not enough to do
1140
00:56:17.010 --> 00:56:20.360
an episode on, but, uh, especially again, with us being
1141
00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:22.179
two white guys, this episode feels like it's got some
1142
00:56:22.219 --> 00:56:24.920
context that, uh, maybe there are other people out there
1143
00:56:24.940 --> 00:56:28.900
with different, different, uh, backgrounds and maybe throw their voice out.
1144
00:56:29.239 --> 00:56:32.659
That'd be really nice. Um, So, uh, yeah. So let
1145
00:56:32.679 --> 00:56:34.179
us know if you got anything you want to hear
1146
00:56:34.300 --> 00:56:37.929
us talk about and, uh, we'll be back next week. Uh, John, uh,
1147
00:56:38.659 --> 00:56:40.480
J Scotty, uh, what you got going on?
1148
00:56:41.440 --> 00:56:43.139
Uh, well, you can always catch both of us over
1149
00:56:43.400 --> 00:56:46.150
on multiverse news. That's the stranded Panda podcast where we
1150
00:56:46.190 --> 00:56:49.869
cover all the weekly entertainment news. That's movie news, TV news,
1151
00:56:50.630 --> 00:56:53.309
video game news, comics news, all that good stuff.
1152
00:56:53.329 --> 00:56:54.550
So go check that out.
1153
00:56:54.969 --> 00:56:57.139
And then, uh, on my personal stuff, just check out
1154
00:56:57.780 --> 00:57:00.960
at J Scotty for real on all the social medias to, uh,
1155
00:57:01.409 --> 00:57:03.769
check out what I'm doing there, including developing a short
1156
00:57:03.889 --> 00:57:04.849
horror comedy film.
1157
00:57:05.630 --> 00:57:09.489
Yeah. Love it. And, uh, yeah, check us out. Like, like, uh,
1158
00:57:09.510 --> 00:57:11.710
Jay Sky said, we're both on that multiverse news and
1159
00:57:11.750 --> 00:57:14.449
I'm over on Marvel cinematic universe podcast. Every week we
1160
00:57:14.469 --> 00:57:17.260
talk about, uh, all the Marvel cinematic universe stuff going on.
1161
00:57:17.639 --> 00:57:20.059
So we'll be back here and always watching next week
1162
00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:21.579
with more lanterns. Peace.
1163
00:57:22.300 --> 00:57:23.059
We'll be watching.
1164
00:57:24.239 --> 00:57:27.440
Thank you for listening to always watching a stranded Panda podcast.
1165
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:29.380
If you dig this podcast and want to see what
1166
00:57:29.400 --> 00:57:31.900
else we do, go to stranded Panda.com for all our
1167
00:57:31.940 --> 00:57:36.159
other myriad of podcasts in this TV space. Thanks again.