What If Consciousness Doesn’t Begin or End with the Body | Rupert Spira

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Hi, everybody. As you may know, most of my podcasts
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these days have been live, but every so often, I
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bring on a very special guest, and I couldn't be
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more pleased today to bring you a man who has
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been instrumental in my journey. I first discovered him a
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few years after I asked the question, how is it
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possible that I am tuning into information that's coming in
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beyond my non-physical senses? And my guest today is going
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to show you how that's possible, why we don't need
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our physical senses to tap into wisdom and guidance and happiness.
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Rupert Spira is a teacher of non-duality, and you're going
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to come to understand what that is and what it
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means for you. He leads conversations and guided meditations on
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happiness and the nature of reality. So I'd like you
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to meet Rupert. Spira, welcome to the show.
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Thank you for your kind words, Suzanne. It's a pleasure
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to be with you.
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Well, the pleasure is mine. I found you online when
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a video of yours popped up. I know it was
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2019 because I can judge things by where I was
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traveling around the country at the time. And I became
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addicted to your YouTube videos, of which there are many.
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And the more I listened, I said, yes, yes, this
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is it. This is the way to touch this reality.
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that I've tapped into through years of meditation. So let's
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just dive into that. I need to ask, where do
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we begin? Okay, let's begin with the definition of non-duality.
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Non-duality suggests, the non-dual understanding suggests that peace and happiness
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are your nature and you share your being with everyone
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and everything. That's as succinct a definition of non-duality I
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can give you.
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And I love it because what you just did there
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is demonstrate what I have seen you do over and
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over and over. And if we all could do that,
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we would find that happiness and peace. Did you notice everybody?
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He didn't just jump into a canned answer that he's
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given a hundred times before. He didn't answer immediately. He paused.
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And I would conjecture that you became that reality and
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you waited for the answer to arise. How would you
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put it?
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That's very true. When I answered the question, indeed, when
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I answer any question, sometimes I pause. Sometimes the answer
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is just immediately there. It's not a style that I have.
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But I pause immediately. for two reasons. One, because I
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want to understand not only the question, which in this
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case was easy to understand. Your question was very clearly
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and succinctly formatted, but I want to feel the question
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behind the question. So that's the first thing, to feel
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where the question's coming from. And the second thing, I
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want to refer back to my own experience and answer
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from that. Now, Having said that, this is not the
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first time, for the sake of transparency, this is not
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the first time that I have formulated the non-dual understanding
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in these terms. However, I could have answered your question
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in many different ways. So it was, we don't yet
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know each other very well, but I'm aware of your work.
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I'm aware of.
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What you want to bring to your listeners. So I'm
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pausing because I think, how can I best respond to
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this question in a way that would relate to Suzanne's listeners?
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I don't want to give you an abstract philosophical answer
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because I don't think that's what you or your listeners
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are interested in. You're interested in something more experiential, as
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indeed am I.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah. Yeah. So why would the listeners of this podcast
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care about non-duality?
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Because I would suggest that all your listeners, indeed I
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would suggest that everybody above all else, seeks peace and
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happiness on the inside and harmony or love on the outside.
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Not many people formulate that search in non-dual terms. If
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we were to formulate that search in non-dual terms, we
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would call it the search for enlightenment or awakening. If
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we were to reformulate it in religious terms, we might
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call it seeking union with God. But not that many
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people seek either enlightenment or union with God. Eight billion
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people seek peace and fulfillment. Most people, if we were
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to ask them, what is it in life that you
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really want? Not many people would say, I want happiness.
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Most people would say, I want better health, or I
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want an intimate relationship, or I want a family, or
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I want a better job, or I want a nicer home,
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or something like that. But then if we press them
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and say, well, why do you want happiness? those things
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or one of those things, they will say, because I
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think it will make me happy. If you said to them,
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for instance, well, if you were absolutely certain that better
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health would make you miserable, would you want it? And
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they would say, no, I'd rather be unhealthy and happy
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rather than healthy and miserable. I'd rather be single and
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happy rather than married and miserable. So we really seek
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all those objects, activities, relationships, and so on for the
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sake of the happiness that we believe that will be
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derived from them. What everybody really wants is happiness. And
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by happiness, I don't mean a gleeful experience, an ecstatic experience.
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I mean peace, fulfillment, A sense of being complete, at ease, sufficient, whole,
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lacking nothing.
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Yes. And so many people come to this program, well,
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for a variety of reasons, but many because they're in grief.
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They're trying to find out, does consciousness survive beyond death?
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Is my loved one still around? That's what brought me
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to this journey. And finding the answers to that question,
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that is, yes, our loved ones are still accessible. as
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expressions of consciousness that we all are, has brought me
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to that peace and happiness that your work points to.
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Beyond any imagining that I ever had back in my
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Navy career, a happiness that is always present. And that's
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what I hope that followers of this podcast will find,
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which is why I was so thrilled to have you here. Yes.
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I mean, this is really the great, open secret of
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not only the non-dual understanding, or I would suggest the
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non-dual understanding is the understanding that underlies all the great
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religious and spiritual traditions, namely that happiness is not a
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state of mind that you may or may not attain
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from time to time as a result of acquiring an object,
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a substance, an activity, a relationship, and so on. Happiness
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is the nature of your being. It's what you are.
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It's not an experience that you have. It is the
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very nature of your being. And this is formulated in
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all the traditions. The kingdom of heaven is within you.
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It is a Christian way of saying the same thing.
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And this is really what everybody should know, that if
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you want happiness, the place to find it is in God.
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your own being. And I suspect, I don't know your,
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your audience well, but I suspect the people that come
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to you, come to you precisely because the happiness, they
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didn't find the happiness they previously sought in the world,
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in activities, relationships, and they have either understood that happiness
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cannot ultimately be found there, or they are beginning to
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suspect that to seek happiness in the world is, is, um,
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is destined for disappointment. Just to make sure there's no misunderstanding,
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I don't mean to imply in any way that to
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lead a very full life in the world, to participate
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in life in the world very fully, is therefore not legitimate.
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I don't think that at all. I think it is
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absolutely legitimate. But I feel that one's life in the
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world should come from one's happiness rather than go towards it.
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What a wonderful distinction. So you teach the direct path to, oh,
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fill in the blank too. I don't want to fill
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it in for you. The direct path to what and
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how does one walk that path?
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The direct path to happiness, although not everyone would formulate it.
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in that way. Others would formulate it in terms of peace, enlightenment, God,
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the relief from suffering. There are many different ways that
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this could be formulated. And some people object to the
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word happiness and reasonably so. because of the close association
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they have with the word happiness, with a temporary ecstatic
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state of mind, which is not what I mean by happiness.
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It's more quiet joy, causeless joy.
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If I could just interrupt the flow for a moment,
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everybody who follows my work would know that joy is
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my name for source.
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Yes, yes. Quiet, causeless joy, a joy that is not
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caused by anything that either does or does not happen
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in your external life, a causeless joy that is the
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nature of your being. So that's what it's the direct
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path to. Now, what is meant by the direct path?
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There are basically two paths. We could almost say three,
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but let's start with two. Two paths. The progressive path
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is and the direct path. And I make no hierarchy,
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no qualitative distinction between these paths. Both are equally valid.
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I spent 25 years on the progressive path before I
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discovered the direct path. But the progressive path is a
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path that takes us to our true nature, to peace,
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to God, to enlightenment, whatever name we give it, via
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some object of experience. You might practice mantra meditation. You
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might watch your breath. You might visualize a light. There
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are numerous progressive paths in all the different traditions. And
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they all, one way or another, involve directing your attention
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to some object of experience, some content of experience. By
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object of experience, I don't necessarily mean a physical object.
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It could be a mantra, your breath, a flame, the
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blue sky, the image of a deity, your teacher. There
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are numerous possible objects that we can give our attention
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to on our way back to our true nature. That's
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the progressive or indirect path. It's like flying from London
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to LA via Chicago. Now, the direct path is when
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you just go directly from your current experience to your
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true nature. You just go straight from Heathrow to LA.
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You don't go via any object or content of experience.
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So whatever you're experiencing, what we're experiencing now, you may
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be in physical pain, you may be suffering, you may
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be in grief, you may be lonely, you may be anxious.
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Wherever you find yourself in your current experience, you could
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ask yourself a question such as, what is it that
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is aware of my experience? And that question will take
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your mind away from what you are aware of back
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to that which is aware. In other words, you go
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back to your true nature of being aware or awareness
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itself directly.
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I love that you said earlier, on our way back,
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and it's because it's right here. You never left.
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On our way back, absolutely. You cannot progress towards your
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true nature. Our true nature is what we essentially are.
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But at the moment, in most of us, what we
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essentially are is veiled or obscured or covered by layers
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of experience, thoughts, and particularly feelings, activities, relationships. So it's
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what we are at the deepest level. And we go
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back to it. We can't progress towards it. We don't
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become it. We recognize it.
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What was the turning point for you after 25 years
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of going from airport to airport, finally just going direct?
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Well, I wasn't going from airport to airport. I was
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very focused. I was practicing mantra meditation for 25 years.
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Mantra meditation, just to say something about that, because it's
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the one form of the progressive path that I have
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firsthand experience on. As you know, I'm sure all your
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listeners know, with mantra meditation, instead of paying attention to 10,000
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things in rapid succession, you You pay attention to one thing.
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You focus your attention on the mantra. And then you
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repeat the mantra. And as you repeat the mantra, the
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mantra begins to fade. The repetitions slow down. They get
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further and further apart. And they get quieter and quieter.
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So this fading of the mantra, as the mantra fades,
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two things can happen. One, your mind gets busy again
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with the 10,000 things, in which case you hold on
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to the mantra again.
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Or....
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As the mantra fades, your mind doesn't go back to
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the content of experience. It subsides into the source of awareness.
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So now to answer your question, what I found after
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25 years is that I needed the mantra less and less.
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I would sit down, as I had done every morning,
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every evening for 25 years, and start repeating the mantra
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with the intention of taking my with the intention of
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taking my attention away from the content of experience, back
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to my true nature. But I found that I was
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there already, perhaps just once or twice, just mention the
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mantra once, sound it once, let it dissolve, and there
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I was, back in my being. And of course, this,
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as very often happens, you will understand this, all your listeners,
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listeners will understand this, very often when your understanding matures,
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there is often a synchronistic event in the outside world
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that corresponds with that understanding. And you meet a person
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that somehow is the right person at the right time
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to help you with this next stage of your journey,
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which is exactly what happened with me.
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Yes, I've heard you talk about your teachers.
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Yes, yes.
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And then you found your own way of showing people
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how to, I love what you said, you know, be
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back in your being. Yes.
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So then I spent another 13 years practicing self-inquiry with
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my teacher and the community that had grown up around him,
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exploring all this, never once thinking that I would share
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these matters in writing or speaking. I was an artist
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at the time, very happy working in my studio and
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just presuming that I would spend the rest of my
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life in my studio. But I did write a book,
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really just, I didn't even know to begin with that
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I was writing a book. I was just writing a
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series of essays for my own, just for my own,
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in order to clarify my own understanding and really for
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the pleasure of writing. Anyway, I won't tell the whole story,
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but that collection of essays then became a book.
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Which one was that? Because I'm pretty sure I've read
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all of your books.
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That was the first book, The Transparency of Things. And
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I then, to my surprise, started receiving invitations to speak
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at conferences. I was then asked to give a retreat
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at the Omega Institute on the East Coast. And one
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thing led to another. And I found over the period
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of a couple of years, quite quickly, what had always
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been my passion private passion turned into something that I
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now found myself doing and enjoying very much in life.
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So I had been exploring these matters for 35 years
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by the time I started writing and speaking. Without my
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realizing it, I found that I had developed a language
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and at least a degree of skill. at explaining these
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matters because I'd been on the path for so long myself.
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I had refined the process for myself that then when
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I found myself giving a retreat, I found that I
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had a language, a repertoire. And then, of course, that
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has been refined and I hope continues to be refined
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as I speak more and write more about these matters.
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And you do have a wonderful way of explaining things
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very simply. And yet to a newcomer to the concept
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of non-duality, the language can seem confusing because it's not
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what we're used to. It really does cause you to
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practice selfishness. Why don't you share with us what self-inquiry
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is about? I wrote about this in my book, The
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Awakened Way, and it's so important.
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Self-inquiry is very simple. It's really what it says it is.
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It's an investigation into the nature of yourself. But when
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most people think of their self, they think first of
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their body, and then as they go, if they are
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then asked, no, go into yourself, go inside yourself. People think, oh,
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you mean my thoughts and my feelings. I would suggest
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that our bodies and our thoughts and our feelings are
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obviously very intimate to us, but they are what we
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know They are not what we are. And this is
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even enshrined in common parlance. We say, I know my thoughts.
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I feel sad. So thoughts are unknown by us. They
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are experienced. They are not what we are. They are
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what we know. We say, I am sad. But really
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we should say, I feel sad. Sadness is not what
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we are. If sadness was what we are, we would
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always be sad because what we are, by definition, is
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always with us. But what we are obviously cannot be
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removed from us when we get undressed at night. We
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take our shirt off because our shirt is not what
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we are. It can be removed. The feeling of sadness
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is not always with us. We are sometimes sad, but
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we are sometimes not sad. So sadness can't be what
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we are. It's what we know. So when we say,
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I am sad. It's a mistake. We should say, I
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feel sad. So what is self-inquiry? It's not an investigation
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into our thoughts, our feelings, even our most intimate thoughts
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and feelings, our deepest memories. It's not an investigation into that.
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That's what we know. But what are we? When we say,
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I know my thoughts, who is that I? When we say,
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I feel sad, Normally, when we feel sad, we give
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all our attention to the sadness, trying to get rid
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of the sadness. But we don't give our attention to
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the I. Who is the I when we say, I
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feel sad? Who is that I? When we say, I
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am listening to a conversation, normally we give all our
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attention to the conversation, but we neglect the I.
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And is that I separate from the sadness? Yes.
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The sadness is not separate from the I, but the
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I is separate from the sadness. Let me explain what
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I mean by that, because these words could be interpreted
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in different ways. It's like saying, is the movie separated
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from the screen? The screen, in this analogy, represents what
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we essentially are, and the movie would be the content
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of experience. Let's say, in this case, the sadness. Now,
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You cannot separate the movie from the screen. So whenever
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there is a movie, it is one with the screen.
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But the screen exists without the movie.
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There we go.
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So when there is sadness, it is one with what
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we are. You cannot separate it from the awareness that
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we are. But the awareness that we essentially are exists,
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or more accurately, is present independently of the sadness. And
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then you find happiness. And that experience, if the nature
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of the being that we essentially are is inherently full, complete, whole,
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lacking nothing, needing nothing, desiring nothing, that is, when we
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experience happiness, we are tasting our being. We are tasting
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its inherent nature. fullness it's completeness it's wholeness and happiness
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is the taste of that experience if we can call
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it an experience i say if we can call it
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an experience because happiness is not something we experience it's
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what we are and and this is as often happens
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this understanding is enshrined in common parlance we call suffering
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unhappiness We don't call happiness unmisery. Why do we call
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suffering unhappiness? Because we understand or enshrined in the word
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unhappiness is the understanding that happiness is our natural condition
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and that suffering is the obscuring of that. So unhappiness
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is defined in terms of happiness. Suffering is unhappiness. But
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you never describe happiness in terms of suffering. And this
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indicates the recognition that we know that happiness is primary
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and suffering is just the veiling of that happiness, not
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its absence. So unhappiness is not the absence of happiness.
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It is the veiling of happiness. Like on a cloudy day,
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the blue sky is present, although not experienced. Why don't
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we experience the blue sky on a cloudy day? Because
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it's covered by clouds. Our happiness is like the blue
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sky of happiness that is covered temporarily by the gray
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clouds of experience. But the blue sky is always there,
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sometimes felt and sometimes obscured, but never absent.
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This is what I've loved about your teaching all along
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is your fabulous analogies. that make what to some people
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may seem challenging, very, very simple to understand. Yeah. As
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before we get off of that, you talked about suffering
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and happiness as we're talking about this being that's always present.
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I want to know when Rupert Spira catches himself upset
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at some human experience, something just knocked you off balance.
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Because I know you understand all of this. You know
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deeply who you are, but you're still human. When Rupert
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Spira gets knocked off balance, what do you do?
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First of all, resist the temptation of blaming anyone or
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anything for whatever unhappiness I may experience. Because as soon
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as you blame your circumstance for your unhappiness, you give
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the person or the circumstance the power to take away
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your happiness. And you just have to wait till the person,
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if you, let's say you believe your unhappiness is caused
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by something that somebody is doing to you. Now, if
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you have allowed your happiness to become hostage to that
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person's behavior, then you're just going to have to wait
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till they stop behaving in this way in order to
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be happy. And you might wait a very long time
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if it is there, if it is there. tendency to
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behave in that way. So first thing I do is
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not allow myself to blame anyone or anything for my unhappiness.
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Second thing, I'm explaining it to you, Suzanne, as a
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linear process. But I've been through this process so many
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hundreds and thousands of times in my life. It takes
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a moment. And that's the goal. And I'm explaining it
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to someone now who may never have gone through this process.
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So I'm explaining it in kind of gradual pedantic terms.
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So one, I don't blame the object, the circumstance, the
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other person. And then I ask myself, when I say
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I am unhappy, who is this I? So that I
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go from the experience of unhappiness, I use the experience
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to take me back to myself. Now, who am I really?
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When I say I am unhappy, who am I? Well,
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I'm obviously not my thoughts, because my thoughts are not
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essential to me. Even since we've been having this conversation,
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you and I and your listeners have had dozens of
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thoughts that have appeared, existed briefly, and vanished. And whenever
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a thought vanishes, you don't feel, oh, a little bit
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of me has gone with it. You remain complete and whole,
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and the thought has vanished. So our thoughts are obviously
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not who we are, they're what we know. So I
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begin to trace my way back through the layers of
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my experience. I'm obviously not my thoughts. I'm that which
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is aware of my thoughts. I'm obviously not this feeling
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of whatever it is, sorrow, or I'm that which is
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aware of the feeling. And in this way, I trace
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my way back to my, I go back as far
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as I can go, discarding everything. And by discarding, I
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don't mean rejecting. I'm not rejecting the validity of thoughts
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and feelings. I'm just temporarily turning away from them in
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order to recognize who I really am because I feel
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I am sad. Well, am I really sad? And then
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I go back and back. until I arrive, so to speak,
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at myself, my pure self, which is just the simple
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fact of being or being aware. And there is no
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sorrow there. Or anger or Or anger or resentment or
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jealousy or hostility or regret or shame or guilt. Being
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is like the screen. It has the capacity for all
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movies to play on it. But by itself, it is
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empty of all content. That's why any movie can appear
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on the screen, precisely because it is empty. It has
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no inherent color of its own. So when you trace
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your way back to your own being in this way.
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You find that your being is peaceful, is fulfilled. There's
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nothing missing there. So in this way, you restore your
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innate happiness. So I've described it as a pedantic process
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in time. And to begin with, it may take someone
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10 minutes. I'm not my thoughts. I'm obviously that which
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knows my thoughts. I'm not my thing. You go back
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and back and back. But each time you go back,
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it The process gets more and more familiar until in
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the end, as you say, this is a moment of
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sadness and you just go straight back to your true
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nature and the sadness dissolves.
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There's a bit of training in that. That's actually, you're
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training your nervous system, aren't you?
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You're training your nervous system.
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Absolutely.
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You're training your nervous system. And that not only takes
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you back to your true nature in the moment, it
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begins to recondition your mind, your nervous system and your body.
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And that reconditioning, I think really it goes on forever.
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You can never say that the nervous system is washed
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completely free of the old habits of thinking and feeling it. It,
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I hope it's a never-ending process.
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But the suffering period is shorter and shorter and shorter.
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Exactly. And you find, my experience is that fewer and
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fewer experiences retain the capacity to take you away from
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the peace of your true nature. And when they do,
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it lasts for less and less time.
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And haven't you found that those moments that are so
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opposite from your true nature truly stand out?
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It's like the princess and the pea. You become exquisitely
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sensitive to not the great big intense drama, emotional drama
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that used to be the content of your suffering, but
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even the slightest, just the slightest instance of suffering. You
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00:32:46.769 --> 00:32:51.480
may think unkindly about someone, Now, to somebody who normally
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spends much of their time with a lot of emotional
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drama and reactivity and so on, thinking unkindly about someone
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would barely register as suffering. But the more accustomed we
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become to abiding in our true nature, this is my experience,
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the more sensitive I become to the slightest instances of negativity,
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even those instances that we would not even previously have
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registered as suffering.
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What a beautiful path for people to be on if
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only more people would practice self-inquiry and be curious about
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these things.
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It's so simple.
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I seem to recall you just naturally have it in
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you to want to know more. Is that right? From
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a teenager, right?
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Well, yes, but I was very fortunate. My mother was
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a lovely, eccentric, bohemian, artistic woman who I was very
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close to, and she was very interested in non-duality, and
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she and my stepfather used to hold meetings in their home.
480
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:14.199
So I was brought up with this around me, which
481
00:34:14.260 --> 00:34:16.889
is by no means a guarantee that I would be
482
00:34:16.929 --> 00:34:20.369
interested in it. One of my siblings, actually, who had
483
00:34:20.449 --> 00:34:24.369
exactly the same upbringing, completely reacted against it and has
484
00:34:24.409 --> 00:34:29.130
no interest at all. But I was, through absolutely no
485
00:34:29.170 --> 00:34:31.409
merit of my own, I just found that I was
486
00:34:31.449 --> 00:34:34.900
very interested. And as a result, I had very easy
487
00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:35.800
access to it.
488
00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:39.599
That's a blessing. For others like me, it takes a
489
00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:42.380
major wake-up call and some intense suffering.
490
00:34:43.849 --> 00:34:47.090
For some people, just a small dose of suffering is enough.
491
00:34:48.730 --> 00:34:53.489
One failed relationship and you realize, oh my goodness, I
492
00:34:53.739 --> 00:34:57.699
allowed my happiness to be a hostage to another person.
493
00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:02.539
That is a recipe for disappointment and failure. That's one
494
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:08.199
end of the spectrum. Just that experience, in theory, should
495
00:35:08.260 --> 00:35:11.059
be enough to let us know not to invest our
496
00:35:11.099 --> 00:35:13.630
happiness in the content of experience. Most of us need
497
00:35:13.670 --> 00:35:15.710
more than that. And then at the other end of
498
00:35:15.750 --> 00:35:19.170
the spectrum, and this is what the story of the
499
00:35:19.210 --> 00:35:23.989
prodigal son illustrates, others have to go to the very extremes.
500
00:35:24.030 --> 00:35:27.500
They have to be on the brink of despair before
501
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:32.340
they turn around. So some people have to be profoundly
502
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:37.659
depressed or to be on the brink of despair. And
503
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:41.469
it varies. We're all on that spectrum somewhere.
504
00:35:41.489 --> 00:35:45.389
Yeah. you keep jogging thoughts in my mind that I'm
505
00:35:45.409 --> 00:35:47.449
writing down here. And one of them was you spoke
506
00:35:47.489 --> 00:35:49.829
about how you have come up with your own language,
507
00:35:49.869 --> 00:35:51.929
your own way to explain things. And you just did
508
00:35:51.949 --> 00:35:55.489
it there because that's one of your pieces that really
509
00:35:55.550 --> 00:35:58.489
stuck with me is you said, don't invest your happiness
510
00:35:58.710 --> 00:36:03.050
in the content of experience. Most people would just say, well,
511
00:36:03.070 --> 00:36:07.829
these are my experiences. This is life. But the content
512
00:36:07.889 --> 00:36:09.050
of your experience, would you.
513
00:36:08.989 --> 00:36:11.860
Just riff on that for a moment? But By the
514
00:36:11.960 --> 00:36:16.400
content of experience, it's the content of the movie. Everything
515
00:36:16.420 --> 00:36:19.519
that appears in the movie, your thoughts, your feelings, your memories,
516
00:36:19.579 --> 00:36:26.780
your bodily experiences, pain and pleasure, the world, relationships, activities,
517
00:36:27.300 --> 00:36:34.349
the entire, everything you can experience. And we are encouraged
518
00:36:34.429 --> 00:36:41.179
by our culture to seek happiness, seek fulfillment, through the
519
00:36:41.460 --> 00:36:47.059
acquisition of some kind of an object, a substance, an activity,
520
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:50.960
a relationship, a state of mind, something where most people
521
00:36:51.659 --> 00:36:57.750
spend most of their life seeking fulfillment in objective experience
522
00:36:58.130 --> 00:37:03.349
and it's just not there. It was Thoreau who said
523
00:37:03.489 --> 00:37:09.750
most people lead lives of quiet desperation and what was
524
00:37:09.789 --> 00:37:14.300
being referred to is this quiet desperation. As we go
525
00:37:14.380 --> 00:37:17.260
on through life more and more, we find that nothing
526
00:37:17.900 --> 00:37:22.539
really fulfills us completely. And of course, the more, the
527
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:27.760
older you get, you've explored, you get to a stage
528
00:37:27.780 --> 00:37:33.190
where you've explored everything, usually many times only and many
529
00:37:33.230 --> 00:37:38.500
times over. And still there is this dissatisfaction in us.
530
00:37:39.730 --> 00:37:44.730
There is this tension of seeking in us, but we've
531
00:37:44.750 --> 00:37:49.070
tried everything, usually many times over. There's nothing else to try,
532
00:37:49.789 --> 00:37:53.010
and yet we're still not fulfilled. That's a life of desperation.
533
00:37:54.070 --> 00:37:57.829
Because you're looking to the content of experience.
534
00:37:58.110 --> 00:38:01.599
Because you have been encouraged, we have all been encouraged
535
00:38:01.940 --> 00:38:06.380
by our culture to believe that fulfillment is a given experience.
536
00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:13.239
by the content of experience, your family, your finances, your job,
537
00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:16.340
your home. I want to be clear about this. I'm
538
00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:20.000
not meaning to imply that it is not valid to
539
00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:24.340
seek those things. It is, but not for the sake
540
00:38:24.380 --> 00:38:25.679
of finding happiness in them.
541
00:38:27.139 --> 00:38:30.929
Yes, and as you're speaking then, I could feel many
542
00:38:30.969 --> 00:38:35.110
people listening right now saying, So you're saying that just
543
00:38:35.449 --> 00:38:38.900
getting rid of experience is the goal? That sounds so
544
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:43.000
boring or so empty. This is all there is? Yes.
545
00:38:43.340 --> 00:38:46.719
No, it's not getting rid of experience. It does involve
546
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:51.030
a temporary turning away from the content of experience in
547
00:38:51.090 --> 00:38:54.050
order to recognize who you truly are. If your attention
548
00:38:54.130 --> 00:38:58.570
is continually caught up with your thoughts, your feelings, your activities,
549
00:38:58.590 --> 00:39:02.150
your relationships, your memories, your hopes, then you're you're never
550
00:39:02.190 --> 00:39:04.389
going to recognize who you are because your attention is
551
00:39:04.429 --> 00:39:08.190
given constantly to the content of experience. So there has
552
00:39:08.230 --> 00:39:11.150
to be just a temporary pause. And this is what
553
00:39:12.210 --> 00:39:17.409
really all meditation techniques, whether they are on the progressive
554
00:39:17.469 --> 00:39:20.639
path or the direct path, doesn't really matter. All techniques,
555
00:39:21.070 --> 00:39:26.980
one-way meditation techniques, and indeed prayer techniques, one way or another,
556
00:39:27.019 --> 00:39:34.539
um try to um interrupt the flow of experience try
557
00:39:34.579 --> 00:39:38.820
to try to take our attention off the content of
558
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:43.559
experience because normally our attention is glued to the content
559
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:45.960
of experience, a thought, then a feeling, then a perception,
560
00:39:45.980 --> 00:39:48.300
then a sensation, then a relationship, then another thought, then
561
00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:51.469
on and on and on all day long. And we
562
00:39:51.489 --> 00:39:54.429
get brief respite from this during deep sleep, and then
563
00:39:54.449 --> 00:39:57.670
it starts all over again. So meditation or prayer really
564
00:39:57.710 --> 00:40:02.650
tries to interrupt that process and introduce a pause where
565
00:40:02.690 --> 00:40:06.809
we temporarily turn away from the content of experience in
566
00:40:06.909 --> 00:40:12.219
order to recognize who we essentially are behind experience or
567
00:40:12.550 --> 00:40:13.909
prior to experience.
568
00:40:15.809 --> 00:40:17.989
And so I just feel this has to come out
569
00:40:18.070 --> 00:40:21.570
right now because so many people that are desperate, that
570
00:40:21.610 --> 00:40:24.489
are leading those lives of desperation, that are in deep grief,
571
00:40:24.949 --> 00:40:28.190
they'll just for a second taste that peace and it
572
00:40:28.389 --> 00:40:33.469
may not feel like enough. But once you know you
573
00:40:33.550 --> 00:40:38.239
can find that anytime, that is what takes you to
574
00:40:38.500 --> 00:40:43.610
what the sages have called The peace that passes all understanding.
575
00:40:43.829 --> 00:40:48.210
Exactly. Exactly. The peace that is not derived from what
576
00:40:48.429 --> 00:40:51.789
is or is not taking place in your experience. The
577
00:40:51.829 --> 00:40:56.170
peace that is prior to and independent of the content
578
00:40:56.210 --> 00:40:59.889
of experience. That's the peace that passeth understanding. That's why
579
00:41:00.130 --> 00:41:01.489
I call it joy.
580
00:41:02.340 --> 00:41:02.820
It's joy.
581
00:41:02.889 --> 00:41:08.820
Yes, exactly. And it's available to everybody. It's not mysterious information.
582
00:41:09.170 --> 00:41:14.860
It's not even spiritual. There's nothing mystical about it. We
583
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:19.000
shouldn't call it enlightenment because the word enlightenment confers an
584
00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:23.360
air of the exotic on something that is natural. It
585
00:41:23.429 --> 00:41:28.929
is unnatural condition. The idea of enlightenment suggests some marvelous
586
00:41:29.429 --> 00:41:35.150
attainment that one in a million extraordinary people may attain
587
00:41:35.230 --> 00:41:39.170
if they practice spirituality. hard enough for 30 years. No,
588
00:41:39.710 --> 00:41:42.530
it's available to everyone all the time.
589
00:41:43.989 --> 00:41:47.150
And it's such a relief when you get knocked out
590
00:41:47.190 --> 00:41:52.010
of balance to turn back and find that peace quickly.
591
00:41:52.030 --> 00:41:53.159
Yes, yes.
592
00:41:54.380 --> 00:41:56.719
Yeah.
593
00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:01.599
You said something earlier. Maybe you can put it in
594
00:42:01.619 --> 00:42:04.280
the right context again, in the context you use. You said,
595
00:42:04.340 --> 00:42:07.190
when I take this shirt off, What was the rest
596
00:42:07.250 --> 00:42:09.030
of that sentence? Because it led me to a question
597
00:42:09.070 --> 00:42:09.869
I want to ask next.
598
00:42:10.329 --> 00:42:14.980
I think I use that to illustrate something, relatively speaking,
599
00:42:15.019 --> 00:42:18.480
that is not essential to us. We all know that
600
00:42:18.559 --> 00:42:21.219
our shirt is not essential to us because every night
601
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:24.800
we take it off and we're not diminished. I use
602
00:42:24.820 --> 00:42:27.679
that to illustrate that our thoughts and feelings, although they
603
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:30.440
are very close to us, closer to us than our shirt,
604
00:42:30.820 --> 00:42:33.320
but still they are not essential to us.
605
00:42:34.179 --> 00:42:38.420
All right. So that's the follow-on question to that. In
606
00:42:38.500 --> 00:42:44.420
your experience of meditation and self-inquiry, what experience have you
607
00:42:44.460 --> 00:42:47.840
had when you take the body off? Or what would
608
00:42:47.880 --> 00:42:50.320
people experience when there's no longer a body? We can't
609
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:52.079
know it right now while we're in a body, but
610
00:42:52.139 --> 00:42:56.039
you can taste that the body is not essential either.
611
00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:03.639
Actually, Suzanne, you can experience it. It sounds... Let me
612
00:43:03.679 --> 00:43:08.329
explain what I mean. All we know of the body
613
00:43:08.889 --> 00:43:12.610
is a flow of sensations and perceptions. That is the
614
00:43:12.809 --> 00:43:17.670
sum total of everything that anybody knows of their experience
615
00:43:17.769 --> 00:43:23.130
of the body. Of course, we conceptualize a solid physical
616
00:43:23.190 --> 00:43:27.989
body lasting for 20, 30, 40, 50 years. But what
617
00:43:28.070 --> 00:43:31.389
is that concept? It's really the sum total of all
618
00:43:31.409 --> 00:43:34.730
the sensations and perceptions we have ever had. But the
619
00:43:35.090 --> 00:43:40.039
actual experience of the body moment by moment is a
620
00:43:40.099 --> 00:43:45.159
flow of sensations and perceptions. And these are continually appearing
621
00:43:45.579 --> 00:43:50.510
and disappearing. So although we tend to think being a
622
00:43:50.670 --> 00:43:55.110
body is my primary experience and being aware is a
623
00:43:57.949 --> 00:44:02.869
function of the body, like breathing or digesting. Actually, our
624
00:44:02.929 --> 00:44:07.909
experience is the opposite. Being aware is our primary experience,
625
00:44:08.269 --> 00:44:11.829
and the body is a flow of sensations and perceptions
626
00:44:12.309 --> 00:44:16.250
that we are aware of. And actually, I would suggest
627
00:44:16.269 --> 00:44:22.579
there are many times during the day where your experience
628
00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:27.389
of the body and We mainly experience the body through sensations.
629
00:44:27.429 --> 00:44:30.789
We experience the world through perceptions, seeing, hearing, touching, tasting,
630
00:44:30.829 --> 00:44:36.010
and smelling. The body is mainly sensations, the tingling of
631
00:44:36.050 --> 00:44:40.000
your hands or face or feet, the experience of hunger
632
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:40.820
or thirst.
633
00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:42.880
You also have the experience of seeing it, so that
634
00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:44.500
makes it feel real.
635
00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:48.900
Yes, but if you close your eyes, what remains of
636
00:44:48.940 --> 00:44:52.760
the experience of the body is almost entirely sensations. And
637
00:44:52.900 --> 00:44:56.380
there are many times during the day when sensation, even
638
00:44:56.420 --> 00:45:02.210
if it doesn't completely disappear, it recedes so far to
639
00:45:02.250 --> 00:45:06.389
the periphery of your experience that you are almost not
640
00:45:06.449 --> 00:45:10.489
aware of it because your attention is given so exclusively
641
00:45:10.550 --> 00:45:14.989
to the world. Let's say you're totally involved in something
642
00:45:15.030 --> 00:45:20.510
in the world. You're barely aware of your body. Because
643
00:45:20.530 --> 00:45:23.550
as long as your body is not in pain, the
644
00:45:23.590 --> 00:45:27.469
body is at that moment just a neutral flow of
645
00:45:27.530 --> 00:45:30.530
sensations that are not calling for your attention. All your
646
00:45:30.550 --> 00:45:34.849
attention is given, say, to the world. It's also possible
647
00:45:36.489 --> 00:45:40.530
in meditation for the experience of your body to recede,
648
00:45:41.190 --> 00:45:44.929
if not completely disappear, at least to recede into the background,
649
00:45:45.090 --> 00:45:47.650
so far into the background of experience that you are
650
00:45:48.340 --> 00:45:49.530
almost not aware of it.
651
00:45:52.269 --> 00:45:54.349
What is your belief about after the death of the
652
00:45:54.389 --> 00:46:00.210
physical body? Will this consciousness from which you perceive now continue?
653
00:46:02.449 --> 00:46:08.280
I believe it will, yes. Let me give you an analogy.
654
00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:16.940
Take an ocean. And the ocean is one within the
655
00:46:17.000 --> 00:46:20.489
limits of the analogy. The ocean has no limits. particular
656
00:46:20.550 --> 00:46:24.389
shape of its own. It is formless and it is indivisible.
657
00:46:24.449 --> 00:46:31.030
It's just one homogeneous substance. This represents consciousness. And the
658
00:46:31.150 --> 00:46:37.630
ocean has the ability to rise as waves, as temporary waves.
659
00:46:38.150 --> 00:46:43.809
And each temporary wave has a certain shape, a certain amplitude,
660
00:46:43.849 --> 00:46:47.449
a certain frequency, a certain speed, and so on. And
661
00:46:47.969 --> 00:46:52.440
the wave would represent each of our finite minds. In
662
00:46:52.460 --> 00:46:57.039
other words, each of us, the body-mind. So I would
663
00:46:57.059 --> 00:47:04.760
suggest that reality is one infinite, indivisible whole whose nature
664
00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:08.019
is consciousness or love or spirit, but it has the
665
00:47:08.039 --> 00:47:14.440
ability to rise temporarily in the form of waves, body-minds, individuals.
666
00:47:15.019 --> 00:47:18.940
That's all of us. So when the body is born,
667
00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:26.289
Nothing new really comes into existence. It's a temporary modulation
668
00:47:26.309 --> 00:47:34.650
of the one infinite whole that is ever-present. In other words,
669
00:47:35.070 --> 00:47:38.980
who we essentially are is not born when the body
670
00:47:39.059 --> 00:47:42.119
is born, just as the water that constitutes the wave
671
00:47:43.019 --> 00:47:46.559
isn't created when the wave is created. The water is
672
00:47:46.599 --> 00:47:50.530
already there. It just takes a temporary form. So that's
673
00:47:50.570 --> 00:47:55.389
what I would suggest. Our being is temporarily clothed in
674
00:47:55.510 --> 00:48:00.179
human experience and seems as a result to become a person,
675
00:48:00.219 --> 00:48:05.320
an individual. And then at death, the wave then disbands
676
00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:12.349
on the ocean. But the energies that constituted the wave,
677
00:48:12.369 --> 00:48:17.550
those energies, they no longer appear as the wave. but
678
00:48:17.570 --> 00:48:20.769
they may be dispersed across the surface of the ocean
679
00:48:20.869 --> 00:48:23.849
as ripples. So I would suggest that when we as
680
00:48:23.869 --> 00:48:29.530
an individual die, the energies that constituted us while we
681
00:48:29.590 --> 00:48:33.489
were alive spread out into the broader medium of consciousness
682
00:48:33.750 --> 00:48:38.139
in which we are now temporarily located as individuals and
683
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:44.820
may exist there in some quote-unquote disembodied forms.
684
00:48:47.570 --> 00:48:50.849
Yeah, and then people become fearful. What if my loving
685
00:48:50.869 --> 00:48:54.269
who has passed dissolves back into that great sea? And
686
00:48:54.389 --> 00:48:58.349
I have found through personal experience that because that sea
687
00:48:58.449 --> 00:49:04.840
is quite conscious and intelligent and interacts with itself, that
688
00:49:05.409 --> 00:49:10.280
narrative continues even if the body doesn't. It can continue.
689
00:49:10.860 --> 00:49:15.510
It can continue, but even if it didn't, What does
690
00:49:15.530 --> 00:49:19.599
this mean? It means that the wave that the person
691
00:49:21.210 --> 00:49:24.889
loved one, you were like two waves on the ocean
692
00:49:24.949 --> 00:49:28.699
alongside each other on the vast ocean, and your loved
693
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:32.880
one has passed away, that their wave has dissolved into
694
00:49:32.900 --> 00:49:37.099
the ocean. Let's say it dissolves completely and leaves no
695
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:41.530
trace of itself. What does this mean? Your loved one
696
00:49:41.789 --> 00:49:45.920
is still the water out of which you are made.
697
00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:49.780
It means your loved one is your very own being.
698
00:49:50.579 --> 00:49:54.320
They haven't left you as a result of passing away.
699
00:49:54.340 --> 00:49:59.389
If anything, they've come closer. They are now who you are.
700
00:49:59.550 --> 00:50:02.829
In fact, they were always that. And the recognition of
701
00:50:02.869 --> 00:50:05.349
your shared being is what you used to call love.
702
00:50:05.670 --> 00:50:08.239
And in fact, you still call it love. But you
703
00:50:08.300 --> 00:50:15.030
now feel... Dear mother, who I referred to earlier, passed
704
00:50:15.070 --> 00:50:18.570
away a couple of years ago. We were very, very close,
705
00:50:18.829 --> 00:50:21.119
but we didn't see that much. Well, we saw a
706
00:50:21.179 --> 00:50:24.059
fair amount of each other, but maybe I saw her
707
00:50:24.099 --> 00:50:27.880
probably once every fortnight in the last year or so.
708
00:50:28.820 --> 00:50:31.679
So much of the time, I was not in physical
709
00:50:32.050 --> 00:50:35.289
contact with her, although I always felt very close to her.
710
00:50:35.590 --> 00:50:37.269
So I used to feel when she was alive that
711
00:50:37.349 --> 00:50:41.039
she lived partly... um 150 miles away from me and
712
00:50:41.579 --> 00:50:45.010
partly in my heart but then when she passed away
713
00:50:45.030 --> 00:50:47.730
i just felt she lives now a hundred percent in
714
00:50:47.789 --> 00:50:51.130
my heart she she is my very own being so
715
00:50:51.269 --> 00:50:55.550
actually she came closer she is with me as my
716
00:50:55.590 --> 00:50:56.710
very own being.
717
00:50:56.449 --> 00:51:00.530
Yeah and many people feel that they feel that and
718
00:51:00.769 --> 00:51:03.889
many people feel this yes yeah so i and again
719
00:51:03.929 --> 00:51:06.570
i don't mean to imply by this that that that
720
00:51:06.610 --> 00:51:12.320
there isn't still a tremendous poignancy that accompanies the passing
721
00:51:12.340 --> 00:51:13.400
away of a loved one.
722
00:51:13.460 --> 00:51:19.619
That poignancy doesn't go away. Every Sunday morning now, I
723
00:51:19.760 --> 00:51:24.400
still find myself, not quite physically, but emotionally, reaching for
724
00:51:24.420 --> 00:51:28.000
the phone to call my mother. And I miss her.
725
00:51:29.400 --> 00:51:34.019
I don't mean to deny that very human, poignant aspect
726
00:51:34.079 --> 00:51:37.369
of the experience, but at a deeper level, I know
727
00:51:37.389 --> 00:51:41.210
that she is my own being, and I feel her
728
00:51:41.449 --> 00:51:41.949
as that.
729
00:51:42.409 --> 00:51:45.130
Yes, and that is why we feel them. But the
730
00:51:45.150 --> 00:51:46.909
beautiful point, and we're not going to harp on this
731
00:51:46.969 --> 00:51:50.250
now because these are my experiences, that the ocean will
732
00:51:50.349 --> 00:51:53.989
wave at us as our loved ones in interactive conversations
733
00:51:54.030 --> 00:51:58.030
with evidence that you can't deny is coming from this field.
734
00:51:58.050 --> 00:51:59.309
That's also true.
735
00:51:59.789 --> 00:52:03.309
Yes, it's also true that our loved one may remain as...
736
00:52:04.570 --> 00:52:07.730
ripples in the broader medium of the ocean, and that
737
00:52:07.750 --> 00:52:12.809
those ripples, just as their previous wave communicated with your wave,
738
00:52:12.909 --> 00:52:19.110
you shared information, their ripples continue to do so. And
739
00:52:19.710 --> 00:52:23.550
that can be quite vague, and this is your area
740
00:52:23.590 --> 00:52:27.800
of expertise, not mine, but it can also be quite specific.
741
00:52:28.179 --> 00:52:31.639
Yeah, it's both. You mentioned love there, and I always
742
00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:33.880
love to come back to that. at the end of
743
00:52:33.929 --> 00:52:36.170
the show, what is your definition of love?
744
00:52:37.969 --> 00:52:43.289
The felt recognition that we are one. It's when one
745
00:52:43.429 --> 00:52:52.059
wave recognizes that another way, that the water that constitutes
746
00:52:52.260 --> 00:52:57.570
one wave is exactly the same water that constitutes all waves,
747
00:52:57.780 --> 00:53:01.079
that there are no divisions in the oceans. There are
748
00:53:01.099 --> 00:53:07.090
divisions in appearances, numerous waves, but really it's all one ocean.
749
00:53:08.309 --> 00:53:13.769
We all look like numerous beings, eight billion beings, but
750
00:53:14.050 --> 00:53:18.090
there aren't eight billion beings. There's one infinite being, and
751
00:53:18.150 --> 00:53:23.840
we all borrow our existence from that being. That recognition
752
00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:28.639
is love, that the felt sense that we are one.
753
00:53:30.039 --> 00:53:33.320
And what I love in human terms about that definition
754
00:53:33.500 --> 00:53:37.239
is that we can then find that kind of love
755
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:39.860
for everyone. Absolutely.
756
00:53:40.219 --> 00:53:49.710
Absolutely. That's the great secret. It's not a secret. The
757
00:53:50.090 --> 00:53:53.550
implications of this understanding. We don't have to like everybody
758
00:53:54.349 --> 00:53:57.030
because whether we like someone or not depends on so
759
00:53:57.070 --> 00:54:01.849
many conditioned factors. whether we like someone or not is conditioned.
760
00:54:02.889 --> 00:54:04.699
It's to do with the way our minds are conditioned,
761
00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:08.500
the way our thoughts are conditioned and so on. So it, it, it,
762
00:54:08.579 --> 00:54:11.460
it's natural to like some people more than others, but
763
00:54:12.159 --> 00:54:15.519
the extent to which we like someone has nothing to
764
00:54:15.579 --> 00:54:18.909
do with our love for them. And particularly those of
765
00:54:18.989 --> 00:54:23.429
us that are deeply involved in, in this understanding as
766
00:54:23.489 --> 00:54:26.030
you and I, and all your listeners are, I feel
767
00:54:26.050 --> 00:54:31.489
we have, really it's, it's, We're required to love everybody,
768
00:54:32.380 --> 00:54:34.780
not to like everybody, not to agree with everybody, not
769
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:40.460
to sanction what everybody does, but to love everybody. Our
770
00:54:40.619 --> 00:54:44.880
love for someone must be our primary relationship with everyone
771
00:54:45.059 --> 00:54:47.079
simply by virtue of the fact that we share our
772
00:54:47.099 --> 00:54:49.219
being with them. I love that.
773
00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:51.840
We are required to love everyone. That is a very
774
00:54:51.900 --> 00:54:53.780
definitive statement.
775
00:54:54.340 --> 00:54:58.619
I feel particularly those of us that share this understanding,
776
00:54:58.639 --> 00:55:00.769
we have a kind of I don't mean to be
777
00:55:01.130 --> 00:55:06.699
heavy about this, but a kind of loving duty. Unconditional
778
00:55:06.739 --> 00:55:10.699
love is one of the hallmarks of this understanding. The
779
00:55:10.760 --> 00:55:13.559
hallmark of this understanding is not being able to speak
780
00:55:13.679 --> 00:55:16.360
or write eloquently about it. Some people have that, some
781
00:55:16.380 --> 00:55:19.210
people don't. But that's not the test of this understanding.
782
00:55:19.250 --> 00:55:23.429
The test of this understanding, I would suggest, is imperturbable peace,
783
00:55:24.349 --> 00:55:27.010
causeless joy, and unconditional love.
784
00:55:29.869 --> 00:55:31.789
Everybody, I know you can feel that. You can feel
785
00:55:31.829 --> 00:55:35.630
this energy. And every so often when I just need
786
00:55:35.650 --> 00:55:37.380
to bask in that to get a dose of it,
787
00:55:37.570 --> 00:55:39.710
I'll pull up one of his books on my Kindle
788
00:55:39.750 --> 00:55:42.769
reader and just get a dose of that. All of
789
00:55:42.829 --> 00:55:46.440
his books are written with that beautiful energy that we've
790
00:55:46.480 --> 00:55:49.280
just experienced here. He has a way of putting all
791
00:55:49.300 --> 00:55:53.489
of this into words in a way that you feel it.
792
00:55:53.579 --> 00:55:59.210
It brings your true being to the surface. So RupertSpyro.com
793
00:55:59.250 --> 00:56:00.409
is your website, correct?
794
00:56:01.510 --> 00:56:05.139
RupertSpyro.com is the website. As you mentioned, I have an
795
00:56:07.980 --> 00:56:13.360
absurd number of videos on YouTube. And something also, if
796
00:56:13.469 --> 00:56:15.989
I could let you and your listeners know about, I
797
00:56:16.030 --> 00:56:21.710
have now a meditation app. It's called Luminous. It's available
798
00:56:21.750 --> 00:56:25.699
in the App Store. And it's completely free. And it's...
799
00:56:26.929 --> 00:56:31.380
One free short 10-minute meditation every day.
800
00:56:31.400 --> 00:56:32.340
Wow.
801
00:56:33.380 --> 00:56:38.900
So anyone, it's just a little homeopathic dose of this understanding.
802
00:56:39.820 --> 00:56:44.260
Every day. That's going to spread some ripples on the ocean, Rupert.
803
00:56:44.920 --> 00:56:45.820
That's outstanding.
804
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:49.179
I also have a Substack channel when I write two
805
00:56:49.219 --> 00:56:51.300
or three times a week. So there's plenty of fun. Okay.
806
00:56:51.320 --> 00:56:56.809
Okay. And 10 minutes is just the ideal time. It's
807
00:56:56.869 --> 00:56:59.949
just enough time to drop into that beautiful expanded state
808
00:56:59.989 --> 00:57:02.230
and not too much time that we can't do that.
809
00:57:02.650 --> 00:57:06.789
It's exciting. Not everyone has an hour a day, but
810
00:57:07.610 --> 00:57:10.590
most of us can find 10 minutes a day.
811
00:57:13.090 --> 00:57:16.420
Well, what a joy it's been to listen to you today,
812
00:57:16.460 --> 00:57:19.139
to have you just scratch the surface, really. I hope
813
00:57:19.179 --> 00:57:21.360
people will want to dive in now and learn more
814
00:57:21.380 --> 00:57:22.960
about you if they don't already know you.
815
00:57:24.070 --> 00:57:28.559
Well, thank you, Suzanne, for inviting me. I think the
816
00:57:28.599 --> 00:57:30.739
work you do is wonderful and it's a pleasure to
817
00:57:30.780 --> 00:57:31.280
speak with you.
818
00:57:32.059 --> 00:57:35.000
Thank you, everybody. I hope you're motivated to dive into
819
00:57:35.059 --> 00:57:38.139
Rupert's work. It really has been transformational for me on
820
00:57:38.159 --> 00:57:41.260
my journey. What a pleasure today. Everybody go out and
821
00:57:41.900 --> 00:57:45.429
live up to your responsibility. You are required to love everyone.
822
00:57:45.650 --> 00:57:48.730
I love that. So go out and love everyone with
823
00:57:48.909 --> 00:57:50.690
all of your heart and soul. I love you all.
824
00:57:50.730 --> 00:57:52.090
We'll see you back here next week.