Molly Rubesh: welcome back to the Align podcast where we talk all things health, wealth, and relationships. I am your host, Molly Rubish, here with Anna Goff, and we are so excited to welcome another man to our podcast today. Brandon is going to bring us all kinds of different insight on life and co-parenting and just give the male perspective. But Please welcome to the show Brandon Lacero. I found him through his Instagram Grounded Parenting. And Brandon, I'll let you introduce yourself and tell our listeners who you are and what you do.
Brandon: my name is Brandon Lucero, obviously. I'm a father of three, went through a divorce about two years ago and been navigating that journey. I'm also an entrepreneur, so you know, my business fell apart around the same time my divorce did and trying to co parent and bring the business back up has been quite the journey, but in that process I started grounded parenting and talking about parenting and teaching parenting has been something that's been inside of me for a really long time. Like I've been wanting to do a brand to help other parents and just share lessons I learned along the way. And so we've done that and in a couple months we've built it to about 160,000 followers and we have a just a really good focus on communication, like how to communicate better. with your kids. Cause I do believe communication is the key to everything in life. And I think that the reason why there's so much disconnection in relationships with people is because people don't know how to communicate. So that's kind of been the goal with what we do at Grounded Parenting and and it's been going pretty good.
Molly Rubesh: I love that. And you know, we have listeners that are both married and divorced. So as far as the thing that d drew me to you, the one reel that I saw that I was like, my gosh, this hit the nail on the head was really talking about maybe you can articulate it better than me, but you're really not as good of a dad as you think you are if you make your ex wife's life difficult financially or from a co parenting situation. Is that did that sum it up or?
Brandon: Yeah, yeah. So that reel in particular was had this big focus on like I think there's a lot of dads out there that think because you spend time with the kids or because you do like the very basic standard stuff that any parent should be doing, it ought to make makes you a good dad. And I I don't know if it makes you a good dad. It may not make you a a bad dad, but the the focus of it is that I think when we go through divorce, there's I mean, divorce is hard. Like it is anyone that says it's easier to stay in a marriage has never been divorced before because divorce is like w I don't wish it on my worst enemy. It is incredibly difficult and emotional to the point where there's days where you just don't even feel like you can function or get out of bed. Like it is very, very and then when you see your kids like struggling with it, it's very it's very difficult. And so one of the things that I I really would hope that a lot of people and this goes both ways. The the reel that you saw was geared towards men, but it really is for anyone. Who's going through a divorce is that you have to understand when the emotions are high. We, and this is just emotional intelligence, we don't want to be using or making decisions or reacting when emotions are high because it leaves reactions that affect other people. And when those reactions affect the other parent, you think that you're like getting even or giving them a piece of your mind, or you're it feels good because you get that emotional release. But when you move them into a worse emotional state, you send them into emotional tornado, they are constantly living in fight or flight. Your kids experience a parent who's in fight or flight. And that's never better for the kids. And so there's, you know, there's things that you're gonna do that are gonna make the other parent mad. Like you can move on, you can start dating, you can like have different values or rules at your house and you should do that. Like you have that's part of the reason why you're divorced is because there's probably a misalignment of values and you can kind of run your household that way. But I'm talking about like intentionally making it worse because you're angry, bitter, mad or something. Like you're not paying child support or you're giving them a hard time or it's coming in late or you're just making it difficult. The only ones that really suffer in that are actually going to be your kids. And so I just think a lot of people need to get their emotional maturity in a line, in gear, get a little kick in the booty
Anna Goff: Mm-hmm.
Brandon: and like pay attention because it's it's really hurting your kids more than anyone.
Anna Goff: Yeah. I I think a lot of times ego takes over when you're going through a divorce and there's so much fear and you you are worried about your future and your finances are getting divided and that feels really uncomfortable. And then whoever is the one that didn't initiate the divorce, then you know, they're however they feel about it, whether they want the person back or whether there's anger or you know, if there was some sort of betrayal or whatever, I think all of those things you know, are are part of the divorce, but ultimately if you can take your ego out of it and just focus on the kids and say, okay, that was that. We can each deal with that separately. But now our focus is how are we gonna raise these humans that we created in a way that is loving and caring and productive and where we don't screw them up even though our marriage failed. And that can
Brandon: Yeah. Right.
Anna Goff: be really hard.
Brandon: Yeah, it is. It's it's a lot of it is a lot of ego and it's like and you're gonna be experiencing emotions on levels you've never experienced before in your entire life. And so, you know, like I always Looked at myself as an emotionally mature person or someone who focused on personal development and that sort of thing. But I wasn't I was not prepared for the storm of emotions that would come up after divorce. And and a lot of people say like divorce is hard, but I would say even the first year after divorce is probably harder than going through the process of divorce. And that was like extremely difficult. Like it there was moments where it felt like my soul was being ripped in half. And it was like nights where my son would come out and something would be wrong, we could down to the corvette. And him and I are both. like crying on the couch together, you know, like I was just nah I was not prepared for the amount of that. And then when you're in those states to then point blame to is so easy. to do. And I think that's the other thing. It's like there's a lot of ego, but there's also a lot of like you're just trying to get yourself to a an emotional state that you can manage. And sometimes releasing anger can help you get there. And those are the sort of things you have to like keep in in check. And and if you do mess up, because it's gonna happen, like you're gonna probably snap at your axe and do these things. It's about repair, it's about like learning from that and just trying to do better. And if you can just do that and you have two people, even if you just have one person doing that, it can totally change the dynamic. Between the two parents.
Molly Rubesh: Yeah, I do
Anna Goff: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: think that somebody has to go first. And
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: when you are in a situation where it's such high stress, I believe that my ex husband would have wanted to fight every single day forever. And I became so easy to work with that, you know, and I know it's like, what about boundaries? And I'm like, I did this for the betterment of my children and for my emotional well-being and for the entire dynamic I became so easy to work with as a co-parent that he became so easy to work with as a co-parent. So for example, if it was my Saturday and he was going to the lake with friends and the he, I'm like, you should take the kids. It will be fun. They want to go on a boat instead of sit at mom's house and do nothing. And
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: And as hard as that is, I had to put my ego aside because it's my day, but I let the kids go. And so then that pays back tenfold when my daughter's like, Can I stay at mom's house tonight? You know, because
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: we just let that go. And somebody has to be the person that goes first in letting their guard down. And I had an an amazing therapist, I had amazing friends. It's not that I became superhuman, I just deflected my anger and my hurt and my energy to somebody else versus him. And
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: I always say if they couldn't hold you emotionally within your marriage, they're definitely not gonna hold you emotionally within your divorce. So it's so important to have your team.
Brandon: Yeah, I think that's r that's really Great. And I th my ex wife and I are in a very similar boat. Like right now, just because the summers she's going back to school right now. And so her we actually had to change around our entire summer schedule. And so we navigated that really well. But the way that July lined up, I was gonna have my kids for like seventeen, eighteen days in a row and she was only gonna have like four. And I could see my youngest daughter is like really struggling with that. And she's like, I just really wanna see mom and so I just messaged her and I was like, Hey, like Maddie's really struggling to to With she wants more time with you, why don't we just why don't I take some of my days and just give them to you and like do this? And she was like very open, like grateful for that. And it's like, yeah, thank you. Like that sounds great. I'm really missing them. And and those sort of things I think happen. And it's really interesting because there we do still have moments of just like the anger will come out or this will come out, or there's a little remark here, or something like that. But we actually It wasn't a very healthy dynamic in our marriage because we wouldn't really talk about the root cause of what caused it, but we would fight and then we would just like let it go and move on. And that caused a lot of resentment in the marriage. But actually as co-parents, that dynamic works really well because I don't need we don't need to go through our resentments in this. We're not married anymore, you know? But
Molly Rubesh: Yeah, yeah, right.
Brandon: as co-parents, like the bickering and the fighting and then the like, okay, we got that out. Now let's actually like do what's best for the kid the kids. We do have a very good dynamic when it comes when it comes to that. But it wasn't like that the first year. The first year was not like that at all. And so now we got through I feel like we the first year was like a big emotional release and just figuring out this
Molly Rubesh: Yeah.
Brandon: new life. And then now we're we're seems to be back on track. But I am very I look back. This is what I tell people the time is. Look back, like you want to be able to look back at your time and go like, I'm really proud of how I handled myself then. You don't want to look back going like I wish I would have not done this or this would really hurt my kids in this way. And so that's one of the motivators for me is to one, want to have more peace in my life, but two, I'm like, I just want my kids to be okay through divorce. Cause we have I'm sure we've all heard it. It's like the divorce isn't necessarily what causes problems for kids, it's the parents fighting and and that's whether you're married or divorced. And and I think that's the thing that people have to pay attention to is is what your kids are witnessing between you and your parent is like will determine how they're gonna be as adults.
Molly Rubesh: Okay. Mm-hmm.
Anna Goff: Yeah, I remember hearing this saying that was, You're you get a second chance at love after being divorced, but your kids only get one chance, one shot at a childhood. And
Brandon: Mm.
Anna Goff: that really stuck with me because putting putting all of the other stuff aside, realizing like this is their one little precious time where they're only gonna be nine years old this one, you know, one time, they're only gonna have these milestones once. And if in the backdrop they're worried about your feelings as a parent and they're worried about, you know, is it mom's day or dad's day and I really wanna be with mom, but if I tell Dad that then he's gonna get upset and you know, they're transitioning through life too, and they have their own things that they are worried about. And we should let them just worry about being kids instead of worrying about regulating our emotions as parents and
Brandon: Right.
Anna Goff: that dynamic or being in the middle or not wanting to say something because it could upset the other parent or whatever. So
Brandon: I th it just comes down to emotional maturity. I think like if you look at what you know, the emotions you're going through in the middle of the divorce and how bad you want to release those emotions, you have to understand your kids are also experiencing the same thing. Like they're emotional going through emotions and they want to release it. But if you don't create a safe environment for them to do that, you know what they're gonna do? They're gonna keep that inside. They're gonna keep that buried down deep. And that causes not just like the psychological damage, but there's been it's proven that that causes illnesses, it causes physical injuries. Like when you harbor in those sort of emotions, that that's what you're doing to your child. When you can't get your own emotions in check to be able to create a safe environment where they can say, like, I really miss mom right now. Or I really wish you guys didn't get divorced. my kids tell me all sorts of things. Like, I just it feels unfair. I really want you guys to get back together. I'm really missing mom right now. I don't want to go to mom's house. I want to stay here because I'm going miss you. all of these different things. And sometimes, yeah, it's hard to hear. Like, I don't really necessarily enjoy. Saying, I wish I was at mom's house right now because I want blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know? I explore that. I get curious with it. I go, okay, well, tell me more about that. How does it make you feel? What can we do here that a little bit differently? Is there anything you need today? And then when you start to learn that you don't have to take everything in life so damn personally all the time, it will transform yourself and will transform the relationships that you have because it creates a level of safety with everyone around you and it creates a stronger bond, is actually what it does.
Molly Rubesh: It's so good. I mean, you said you're you're two younger girls. My daughter struggled so much. She was seven when we got divorced, and she just missed me. She just was a little girl that wanted to be with her mom. And it had nothing to do with not loving dad. But when she would come home, then she would cry and say, I don't want to hurt daddy's feelings. I'm so worried about hurting daddy's. I'm like, Daddy's okay, he's okay, you know, and and so then it's like her trying to hold the emotional burden of her dad. I'm like, dad's a grown man. He can take care of his own emotions. You're not hurting his feelings. And she's like, I love him though. I'm like, I know. But she's like, but I just want to be with you. And it's
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: just because she's a little girl that wants to be with her mom. I braid her hair. I come in the shower, you I rinse the conditioner out at that age. Not now. But
Brandon: Right.
Molly Rubesh: you know, I mean it's
Anna Goff: Okay.
Molly Rubesh: like it We have and and my son likes to be with dad. I mean, he thought dad was cool. They did their things outside and and so we have to give our kids that grace that it doesn't mean anything about us as a parent. It just means they have a lot of times the most influential person in a child's life is the same sex parent and they just have
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: that bond. And then they don't need to be responsible of choosing who they love more. And that
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: they want to be with mom or be with dad doesn't mean anything. Like you have to pick. I think that is actually so hard for children to understand. My my son now is 18 and he just graduated high school and he's like, I'm just gonna keep following the custody schedule. And I'm like, Connor, you I mean, you don't have to, you're a grown adult.
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: You don't have to go to Mondays and Tuesdays with dad. And he's like, I'm just gonna. I I just like that. It's routine. And I'm just gonna follow that for now. And it gives him the permission that he's not choosing, you know, he's a really fun loving, well rounded man. He's not hurting, but he wants to see dad and he wants to see mom and so he just
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: manages life that way and it becomes part of their their life, even though they they didn't sign up for it, you know.
Brandon: Yeah. one of the perspective shifts that I had during all of this is like all those hard times where they are saying like I do miss mom or like they are starting to feel responsible for the other person's emotions, one of the things that I started to realize and and sort of was like my driver during the my like North Star during all this is that you know you can't control what happens at the other person's house or how your kids are going respond to things. So if you are in a situation where your kids are taking on the other adults emotions or they're afraid of saying something because they don't want the other hurt the other person's feeling, it actually is a really great opportunity to start teaching your kids to have a better relationship with making people uncomfortable and being okay with that, which I think is like it's a very And instead of talking negatively about the other person, or you shouldn't have to do that, it's an opportunity to tell them, in life, like it's okay to speak your truth, even if it makes people uncomfortable to advocate for yourself, even if it's gonna make me or your dad or whoever upset and to have a really good relationship with yourself and your own feelings and verbalizing that is the most important part. And it's okay, to let dad be upset. And that is an okay dynamic to happen. You just need to main maintain your your steadiness in that. And I think, you know, a lot of the things that really helped me is I took a lot of these really painful moments with my kids and used them as opportunities to help them become more emotionally in tune and and learn how to advocate for themselves and learn how to make other people uncomfortable. Cause I think that's a big problem even with adults is a lot of people are not okay with people being mad at them or making someone uncomfortable. And then you get put in a box or you start bending into something you're not or you're just constantly walking on eggshells. And so I started to look at everything happening in the divorce as an opportunity to actually help my children instead of something that's going to like destroy my children. And I think a lot more parents would benefit if they also like looked for opportunities like that to help their kids to help their kids grow.
Molly Rubesh: Totally agree. I love that.
Anna Goff: What a what a great gift to give, especially well, to your children, all of them, but especially to your daughters, to not be a people pleaser And I think more parents should teach that. But I think a lot of parents don't know that themselves so it's very hard to pass that on.
Brandon: Yeah.
Anna Goff: What would you say to people who maybe don't have don't see eye to eye on implementing some of these things in their co-parenting dynamic.
Brandon: I would say, you know, like the first year for me, it very much was that dynamic. it it was really it was really hard and and it's it's calmed down is since the first year. the th the fur so I'll just speak from my own experience and the lessons I learned in that. And and number one is that Well, there's a lot of lessons. So I think the f the first one I want to dive into is I think grace. Well, first of all, you can't control what happens over there and trying to control or change, get them to change behavior is not gonna like you probably tried to do that in your marriage and it didn't work. Like no one's gonna change unless they actually wanna change. So then that leads to the next part of it, which is you can only control how you handle it, how you take it, how you let it affect you, all of those sort of things. Like you're in control of that. That's the only thing you're control of. So you have to learn to let let go of that. The thing that really helped me was giving my ex more grace and empathy. And I was with, we were together since we were 15 and 16 years old. We were six we were high school sweethearts. Her dad was my cross-country coach. He coached me, like her her dad when we started our when we started our our business. When we started our our business her parents let us live at their house totally rent-free for four years. They had no idea what I was doing. They're like, Brandon's just farting around on YouTube all day long and get married to our daughter, and he's supposed support her, but they didn't ask me any questions. one of the most impactful people in in my life. so I knew their family very well. I knew the dynamic very well. I loved all of them. And that love dish didn't go away, but th the point where I'm getting at is that I held a lot of empathy for my ex-wife because I knew her childhood. I knew a lot of the traumas that she went through. And I knew why she was the way that she was. And I'm not saying that as a negative thing. She just everyone is a certain way, right? Because of our past. And so I'm just saying I had a deeper understanding of why she's reacting this way or how she was. And I just what I started to do is just started to look
Anna Goff: Sorry.
Brandon: with more empathy as to you're just another human being trying to survive in this role just as much as I am. And I may have some more tools to be able to navigate emotions a little bit better that you don't have yet. And so when I started to operate and look at her with more empathy of like, you've had a really hard childhood. You did have these traumatic experiences happen in your life. And they do cause you to be in fight or flight easier than me. And so when I started to look at her through the lens of just like, you're another human being trying to make it in this world who's gone through some really hard things. And I understand that these reactions are a result of that. It's not really a result of me. I was able to like navigate with a lot more grace and and operate with a lot more compassion because I could have made her life a a lot worse. Like there were things that happened that I could have pushed full force and made it a lot worse. But I looked at that and I go, like I understand her. I understand why she's doing this. I understand that she's struggling and she's in a lot of pain. Like the mother of my children is in is in a lot of pain right now. Like it's not because I'm a bad guy. It's not because I'm doing something wrong. It's because she's in pain and that's like it's making me teary. I talking about it. Like That's someone I spent 25 years of my life with, someone I had kids with. And so I operated with a lot more compassion. And I think a lot more people need to look beyond their own emotions and understand that like someone treats you that way is because there's there's demons that they're battling. And yeah, you need to like protect your your your peace and you need to like have boundaries and know what is acceptable and not. But it doesn't also mean you need to push everything to the extreme and get even with each other all the time. Because it just creates an awful dynamic that honestly will never change. You know, like I I look at this and I'm like, I don't want the next 15 years of my life to be what this first year was. And I remember
Molly Rubesh: Right.
Brandon: talking to a therapist and and when we were married, and I'm like, why am I always the one that has to like change? And why am I always the one that like has to initiate this and hold the peace and do this thing? And why am I always one that has to validate? And she goes, Because right now you're the only one that can. She doesn't have the capacity to do that. So you're gonna have to do it. And I remember that because in the first year I was like, she doesn't have the capacity to do it. She's in so much pain. She doesn't have the capacity to do it. So I'm gonna have to do it. And I'm gonna do it for the sake of the family unit that we still have. Cause you still are a family, whether you guys want to admit it or not. You're just not married, but you're still family. There's still a unit. And I think that I don't even remember what the original question was, but hopefully that answers it. But that's sort of how my mindset was in that first first year.
Molly Rubesh: It's so important what you just said to be able to recognize that your partner or your ex-partner is going it is going through their own stuff. And we do all come to the marriage with our own stuff from childhood, our own traumas, our own belief systems. And unless we are doing our own work earlier, which here's another note for doing earlier work, so then marriages don't crumble, but okay. And w then you're divorcing and then you add insult to injury and heartbreak and tons of shame and insecurity and self-doubt and rejection that my gosh, the person that you know, Brandon, you were her safe place for so long. And she was a young girl when she met you and you grow together and you build this life together and then you have children together. And then The marriage ends and it's like, who are we? Who are we without this person that we grew up with and that knows me and you know, you loved your in-laws? And so it's so complex and there's such pain around it. Then you have little kids that are saying things like, I want to see mommy or, you know, Daddy, I like daddy better. And you're like, What do you mean? And so then it's more rejection and more pain. So it's so beautifully said that we have to recognize that. A lot of this isn't even about us as the partner,
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: the the ex, the the current spouse, the ex, the co-parent. It's just deeper than that. And when we can do our own stuff and heal, then we can see it for what it's worth. And unfortunately, like you asked, why do I have to be the one? That that's just the way it is. Some whoever
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: is the more balanced, healthier, able person has to rise to the occasion. No different if we were like rowing a boat and you cramped up, we wouldn't get there very fast, but I would start rowing.
Brandon: Right.
Molly Rubesh: You know, it's like somebody's got to pick up the slack who has the capability to do it. And that is where I said, that's why one of us has to go first. That's why in co parenting, one of us has to be the one.
Brandon: Yeah. Someone has to create that environment. And and also I d I really don't want this to come off as my ex was terrible the first year and I wasn't. Like I did a lot of things that probably further that, but when I had the opportunity To push it or not push it, I chose not to. And you know, I I think I always remember this is a like business advice that I got a long time ago, but dealing with employees. But since I heard this quote where it's like if a flower doesn't bloom, you don't always just blame the flower, you blame the environment, the environment. So if you're not creating an environment for the flower to thrive, then the flower will never thrive. And I think when you have two people constantly fighting, you're creating an environment where there never will be peace. And so someone has to be The one to start to change the environment. And then when the environment starts to change, the path, whether they choose to walk down that path or not, is at least open. It's not gated up anymore. It's it's open, and there's at least a chance that eventually you can move towards that. And I think also just I I honestly just think empathy is one of the biggest things that you can have. And just recognize, like, I really don't think humans want to be mean to each other. I don't think we're doing we're doing it because we're in survival or fight or flight or because we like and that is usually a result of our past. Like I think genuinely people wanna get along. Like I don't think people want anxiety and just like what is this person gonna do? And are they gonna take me back to court and my god, over the this no one like no one like no one wants that, you know? And so if you're the first one to start creating that environment, I like to believe that they will change or it'll just be easier over time. Not instantly, but over time it'll definitely
Molly Rubesh: Right. Yeah. It takes it
Brandon: The possibilities there at least.
Molly Rubesh: takes time.
Anna Goff: Yeah. And modeling that for your children, you know, sometimes especially if kids are a little bit older, you feel like you need to explain what happened or validate yourself and say, Well dad did this and dad did that and so that's why I left or that's or he's acting like this. And you don't have to do that. Just stay the consistent, steady, eddy parent that they know. And they'll
Brandon: Yeah.
Anna Goff: see, and as they grow, they'll learn and they can make their own decision and their own observations and knowing that you are that guiding light, that lighthouse in the relationship, they have comfort in that. And even if they're going back and forth knowing that there is a parent who's emotionally regulated, who is that steady person, that constant, and that that hasn't changed, you don't have to prove anything to your kids. They will see.
Brandon: Right.
Anna Goff: They know you and they know your ex better than anyone else in the world and they can pick up on things whether you say things or not. They know what's going on. So you don't have
Brandon: Yeah.
Anna Goff: to validate that to prove yourself or your worthiness in their lives.
Brandon: Yeah, exactly. I agree with that.
Molly Rubesh: I
Anna Goff: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: I I like the the thought of what we need from our ex what we needed f from him in marriage was a husband, a partner, a confidant, our lover. And what we need from them in a co parenting situation is just to be a really good dad and a co
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: parent. So when you remove that emotional tether, then it makes it a lot easier. And what your kids, again, they're allowed to love their dad because we're not asking them to get married to him. I
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: don't believe that my ex husband was a really good husband, but I can't say he's not a good dad. And so my kids
Brandon: Yeah, two separate things.
Molly Rubesh: don't have to choose because they're not marrying him. He he's just their dad.
Brandon: Yeah. I and the things that I think a lot of parents in divorce don't understand is you're like as long as the person's not abusive, the other parents not physically or emotionally abusive, they're gonna love that parent whether you like it or not. So that there's no you're not gonna be able to win that battle. And I don't know why you would want to. Like, why would you want them to
Molly Rubesh: You don't want to.
Brandon: not love the other parents? And there was a couple of things that I that I did that I think helped my kids through this, which helped them further build a better connection with their mom during this process. And I got this from a family therapist that I was working with. Because I we haven't even talked about this part of it yet. We can if you guys want to, but I actually started dating someone and that was a whole nother a whole nother can of worms as well. But during that process, I was working with a family per therapist to figure out how to navigate that whole thing and because it caught me off guard. It was not a I didn't want to date anyone. I was not expecting to date anyone. I was not ready for a relationship and then this it just naturally happened. So I was like, okay, I need to figure out how to navigate someone's family therapist. And you said, well, one of the things you're gonna want to you that I really recommend you do. Is really help your kids build the relationship with your mom, with their mom, not because they necessarily need it, but because if they can see you encouraging them to have a relationship with their mom that's gonna be a very healthy dynamic that will you can create in your household. and so one of the pieces of advice she did is she said, look at your kids and compliment them on things that are the other parent. And I was like, okay, so and this means physically, this means emotionally, this means personality-wise, like all of these things. And so I d I did it a couple different ways, but I remember when I I did it with her hair color one time and I just cause she's the only person in the entire family has the same hair color as her mom, and she was really struggling with some self-conscious things, and I just said, you know, honey, like you have this might sound weird, but I just really always love your hair because it's the same color as your mom, and you guys share that together. You guys both look so beautiful. When your hair is done, and that color just really when the sun hits it, it just looks absolutely stunning. And that was like one of the things with your mom, and every time she was like at the beach or something, like it was just and I just saw the look on her face just completely transformed. There was ease over her entire body, and then I was I I couldn't, I was so caught off guard the amount of power that had over like of emotional power over my kids, and now I do it all the time with like that the thing you Laughed at, or this thing you joked about, that's this that's the same sense of humor with your mom. And that's like one of her best qualities that I've always like loved. You get that from your mom. That's so amazing. Like you should do that more. You know, that sort of thing where you compliment your child, but you're secondly complimenting your ex. And I did a video on this on Instagram, and I got a lot of like different pieces of feedback. And a lot of the people were like, Well, I can't, I can't ever do that because my ex is terrible, and blah blah blah blah blah. And it's like Doing that has nothing to do with your ex. By doing that, you're not complimenting your ex. You're complimenting your child on parts of them. And I think what starts to happen, if you don't create that environment and you there is toxic toxicity between the two parents, kids will start to recognize, I have this part of me that is a part of the other parent and my p dad or mom doesn't like the other parent. I should have shame around this part of me.
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brandon: And there's like these underlying things that I think kids are going through that a lot of parents don't take into consideration, where you they are a part of you physically, personality-wise, they are a part of both of you guys. And anytime that you're like knocking down the X, you don't know how your kids are gonna internalize that. They could be building
Anna Goff: Mm-hmm.
Brandon: whole subconscious shame wire in their head around those things because of how you Talk to your ex. And so I think that was like the single most powerful advice that I got during this entire divorce process. It was it was transformative.
Molly Rubesh: It's kind of nice.
Brandon: Yeah.
Anna Goff: Especially when other people say things like, you look just like your dad or your mom or when they are the ones that do it too and then if everything is negative that's coming from you then they do start to feel maybe shame around those parts of them or even think, Well, I love my dad or I'm part of my dad so since she hates him so much, she must hate a part of me or
Brandon: Right.
Anna Goff: I'm a reflection of him and so she must hate that
Brandon: Yeah.
Anna Goff: part.
Brandon: Yeah. It's very underlooked, I feel like. A lot of people don't realize that.
Anna Goff: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a really great point.
Molly Rubesh: So dating post divorce, you know, since you brought that up, did you introduce her to your kids? Are you guys still in relationship? Like what's how did that work?
Brandon: Yeah, we are still in a relationship. So it was it was it was pretty quick after it was not like something that I was looking for or expecting.
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm.
Brandon: But it was only a couple months after the divorce and I was still in a lot of pain. Like I was still processing the divorce. I was just I I was not in a great place. Like I was just not functioning very well. And and it was it's very interesting. Like y I know you mentioned that you're each other's safe space for so long that you're not. It was like I remember the first like week or two after like finally being in my own place, being so emotionally upset, but also wanting my ex to be next to me because that was my emotional safety for 25 years. And I'm like, this is such a weird position to be in. But a couple months later I was in I was in better space, but still like dealing with it. I mean, it it's divorce takes a while. So We went to this school event and my youngest daughter just walked up to this lady and was like, That's my dad, and he's divorced and he doesn't my mom and dad don't live together anymore. And she's like, okay. But she was like working the event that we were
Molly Rubesh: She's your wingman, huh?
Brandon: we were yeah, she just went right up to her. I
Anna Goff: With your wings. Yeah.
Brandon: was like, my gosh, like what is that? Was really weird. And then so they started they were like doing hoo loop together at this event. It was like a workout event at the school. And then I overheard them talking and sh she's like, Do your kids here? Like she and she's No, they're with her dad. So then I realized she was divorced. And then I just sort of felt like I thought she was cute and I sort of felt like she d maybe was thinking that with me. And I was just kind of and then I remember thinking, should I ask her out? I'm like this way too early. I'm not but I remember thinking, I need something new in my life. I need a new experience. I need something to get my mind off the divorce. It's just a date. So we went out on the date and it we just ended up talking all night and then just kept talking and talking and talking and talking and talking. and then we really went through this like it's probably a little it's too early for you to be doing any of this stuff. So we just kind of casually dated and talked. And then the way that our community is set up, there's a park and everyone always goes to the park. So we kept running into each other at the park. And then we started, our kids started like seeing each other at the park and then we started dating a little bit more. And then it just became this thing where it was like it was actually very healing for me to see what a healthy dynamic can look like between you know you and a and a partner. And then a couple months later we made it an official thing and then By that point the kids had already known her because we were at the park and school. And then like people started to find out. So my ex and I had this this like agreement that we wouldn't bring anyone around the kids until a year of dating. And I broke that agreement, but it was I I I had to because so many people were sort of picking up on what was going on. And I didn't want my kids to find out like on school ground, like, well, your dad's dating, blah, blah, So I had to, and that didn't make my ex very happy. And then, but that's also why I'm like held even more grace, because like, If the roles were reversed, I w this would be very, very painful for me. And and so that's why I gave her a lot of grace, because there's like not only divorce now, there's this thing's happening pretty quickly. And I w I wasn't expecting it and and I just knew she was in even more pain. And so I tried to navigate it as best as I could. We're still together. it's we've been dating for a year and a half now and and it's been going really well. And so That was just a very unexpected thing that I would have never guessed would have happened. I wasn't looking for it. I didn't to be honest, I didn't even want it. And then I just bl came out of nowhere and blossomed. But it was very interesting because a lot of people you always hear the advice of you shouldn't date until you're fully healed. And that was always running in my head. And then I started to talk to therapists and different people. And they go a lot of people talk about how dating someone can actually be a very healing experience and you can heal in the process of that. So we did. you know, I was very honest with her, like here's where I'm at. I don't like we it probably is early and I'm pro I am still detaching and doing these things. So like, you know, I'm just gonna be honest with you with where I'm at and we'll just see where it goes. And so now we've been together for a year and a half and it's been going pretty well and all of our kids get along and and my ex wife seems to be dealing with it better. Like it's a normal thing now. And and so yeah, it's it's been a journey. It's been a lot of unexpectedness the last couple of years.
Anna Goff: Mm. Yeah. I had a similar situation where I started dating someone really quickly and it was healing because we had a great line of communication. And so I was it was such a safe place for me. And similar to you and your ex wife, I knew him from the time I was in middle school. So it was a very safe place. And it was nice to go through and heal in that way where you can you know, I think there's a sort of a sense of empowerment after divorce where you're like, listen, I've already been through hell, so I'm just gonna lay it out on the line and communicate in a way that I want. And if you can't handle it, then maybe we're not meant to be, and that's fine and I can take it, you know, and and if it doesn't align and there were things ultimately after dating for a year and a half or almost two years that didn't align long term and so we ended up splitting up, but it was very healing and very cathartic to go through that with someone that was a safe person. yeah.
Brandon: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean there's a lot of emotions and like you know self-doubt or insecurities or and you start to think too and like at least I was, I was thinking like I don't is it isn't even gonna be possible to find someone after divorce, like all the good people are married now and like
Anna Goff: Right.
Brandon: all these other things. And I I was and then there was a part of me that good that was like I actually just want to work on myself for the first year too. Like what what was my role in the marriage and like are there things that I can work on and and do that. And and that was really what I wanted to do. And what I didn't realize is starting to date actually escalated that also. Cause then your pat like the patterns that you didn't fix or weren't aware of, they still are there. You know, the behaviors are still there. And so then at like being in the relationship, those would come out and she's like, hey, I noticed blah blah blah blah blah. And I'm like, man, like I'm run I'm falling back into these other dynamics. So it actually helped me heal but also allowed me to still work on myself. And it it it lo it also showed me what communication can be between two people because the communication in my marriage was not great. And to now be with someone who honestly was more grounded and in clear communicator than I was was like I need to up my game. And so I've actually learned a lot from her in different ways, which has been Which has been really great, but it's just, I don't know. This life is just so crazy. It's just I was not expecting to really get divorced ever. I was not expecting to date someone so soon. I was not expecting to last a year and a half. Everything in my life that's happening right now, none of it was expected. None of it was expected. but there's been great lessons in growth and all.
Molly Rubesh: Yeah, I I think we can all say that, right?
Anna Goff: That is life.
Molly Rubesh: I mean it's I would I always would say divorce isn't a an option for me. Divorce that was my b that was my plan. Divorce isn't an option for me. And of course I'm divorced and I'm remarried
Brandon: Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: and I'm a stepmom and you know, I mean it's like we blended our families and I wouldn't choose any other path. I mean, where I am right now with the man that I'm married to with my journey. I would do it all over again to have the safe love and partnership that I have. So I mean, anybody that is in our community that is listening, it I think this is just such a great example of how you can get through the storm of divorce. You can find a way to, give yourself grace one year. Post divorce, high conflict with your partner, it's not too late to kind of change the course, change the tone. You can be the one that goes first. You're allowed to fall in love. You're allowed to enjoy this life. I mean, gosh, har life is hard enough to
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: not be able to like put yourself back out there and actually have joy and love and passion and partnership and all of it.
Brandon: I mean, I really do believe, however you want to look at it, universe, God, whatever your belief system is, is that when you're not where you're supposed to be, the universe, God, whoever, whatever, will just destroy everything. And and most of us look at destruction as a bad thing. But I've been on my entrepreneurial journey, I've I've realized enough times that every quote unquote bad situation or unwanted experience in my life has led always without fail led to something better. And if you're sitting there saying, well, that's not true for me, it's means you're still in the middle of it. You just haven't gotten to the better part. But I also believe like you have to have that belief and you have to have that understanding and you have to have be on the lookout for what are the lessons and other areas to grow. And I do believe that like it will destroy things to move you into alignment of where you need to be. And I re I because I remember thinking in my marriage, you know, it's like all it's there's always the be careful what you wish for. I remember thinking, I I want to be closer. I want to feel safer to be exactly who I am and have my own beliefs and to express my opinions without having to walk on eggshells. And I just want to like have someone that would meet me halfway in the household like all these things. I was like, this is just what I want. But I wanted it with her, you know what I mean? And but at the end of the day, I I want those are the things that I wanted. And those are the things that I wished for. And then everything had to fall apart for me to to get what it was that I wanted in a partner. And it just unfortunately wasn't with my ex-wife. It's it could be with the person I'm with now, but I do believe that I will end up with that. But that's what I wished for and that's what I wanted. And the universe goes, Okay, we will give that to you. But are you willing to walk through the fire to get what you want? You know, and and so I remember I w I worked with a shaman and one of the things he told me way back in the day, he he was like, A lot of people want like the million dollar business. And the universe will give you the million dollar business. But the reason why you don't have the million dollar business right now is because you're not the person who can build the million dollar business. So what the universe is gonna do is it's gonna shape you into the person who can build the million dollar business. And he goes, And that's just business, it's anything. The universe will shift and shape and give you the lessons if you're aware enough to see them, to have exactly what you want. But everyone just wants what they want without the pain, without the problems, without the suffering. It's like that's not how the world works. So if you
Molly Rubesh: Right.
Brandon: you really want those things, like it's gonna cause destruction of the life that you have. And sometimes it will just drag us, even if we don't want to, kicking and screaming the entire way. And so I do.
Anna Goff: Make it.
Brandon: believe that anyone can have what they want. It just might require your old life, which is painful, but it's beautiful on the other side.
Molly Rubesh: Ooh, I love it. I love that. For everybody. Yes. Yes. So good. We need to have your shaman on here. Well,
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it, right?
Brandon: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I know.
Anna Goff: Right.
Molly Rubesh: Brandon, this was such a great conversation. I know that our listeners are going to adore it. And thank you for being just a grounded male voice, a good father, somebody that's working to be the best co-parent that you can be. I mean, we just need more of all of that. in our world and in our space and so we we definitely on behalf of women that we coach and support we we definitely appreciate you using your platform to help other people be fathers or mentors and we all can learn from you. So where can our listeners find you?
Brandon: Yeah, I think the easy easiest place is just go to grounded dot parenting on all social platforms. We're on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, all the places. so just go there and check out the content we have because if you like this conversation, I have a lot of content around similar stuff. So head over there and check us out.
Molly Rubesh: Awesome. And we will drop the links below. So thank you so much for joining us on another episode of the Aligned Podcast. If you like what you heard today, please like, rate, review, and share with your friends. And we'll see you next week on another episode.
Brandon: my name is Brandon Lucero, obviously. I'm a father of three, went through a divorce about two years ago and been navigating that journey. I'm also an entrepreneur, so you know, my business fell apart around the same time my divorce did and trying to co parent and bring the business back up has been quite the journey, but in that process I started grounded parenting and talking about parenting and teaching parenting has been something that's been inside of me for a really long time. Like I've been wanting to do a brand to help other parents and just share lessons I learned along the way. And so we've done that and in a couple months we've built it to about 160,000 followers and we have a just a really good focus on communication, like how to communicate better. with your kids. Cause I do believe communication is the key to everything in life. And I think that the reason why there's so much disconnection in relationships with people is because people don't know how to communicate. So that's kind of been the goal with what we do at Grounded Parenting and and it's been going pretty good.
Molly Rubesh: I love that. And you know, we have listeners that are both married and divorced. So as far as the thing that d drew me to you, the one reel that I saw that I was like, my gosh, this hit the nail on the head was really talking about maybe you can articulate it better than me, but you're really not as good of a dad as you think you are if you make your ex wife's life difficult financially or from a co parenting situation. Is that did that sum it up or?
Brandon: Yeah, yeah. So that reel in particular was had this big focus on like I think there's a lot of dads out there that think because you spend time with the kids or because you do like the very basic standard stuff that any parent should be doing, it ought to make makes you a good dad. And I I don't know if it makes you a good dad. It may not make you a a bad dad, but the the focus of it is that I think when we go through divorce, there's I mean, divorce is hard. Like it is anyone that says it's easier to stay in a marriage has never been divorced before because divorce is like w I don't wish it on my worst enemy. It is incredibly difficult and emotional to the point where there's days where you just don't even feel like you can function or get out of bed. Like it is very, very and then when you see your kids like struggling with it, it's very it's very difficult. And so one of the things that I I really would hope that a lot of people and this goes both ways. The the reel that you saw was geared towards men, but it really is for anyone. Who's going through a divorce is that you have to understand when the emotions are high. We, and this is just emotional intelligence, we don't want to be using or making decisions or reacting when emotions are high because it leaves reactions that affect other people. And when those reactions affect the other parent, you think that you're like getting even or giving them a piece of your mind, or you're it feels good because you get that emotional release. But when you move them into a worse emotional state, you send them into emotional tornado, they are constantly living in fight or flight. Your kids experience a parent who's in fight or flight. And that's never better for the kids. And so there's, you know, there's things that you're gonna do that are gonna make the other parent mad. Like you can move on, you can start dating, you can like have different values or rules at your house and you should do that. Like you have that's part of the reason why you're divorced is because there's probably a misalignment of values and you can kind of run your household that way. But I'm talking about like intentionally making it worse because you're angry, bitter, mad or something. Like you're not paying child support or you're giving them a hard time or it's coming in late or you're just making it difficult. The only ones that really suffer in that are actually going to be your kids. And so I just think a lot of people need to get their emotional maturity in a line, in gear, get a little kick in the booty
Anna Goff: Mm-hmm.
Brandon: and like pay attention because it's it's really hurting your kids more than anyone.
Anna Goff: Yeah. I I think a lot of times ego takes over when you're going through a divorce and there's so much fear and you you are worried about your future and your finances are getting divided and that feels really uncomfortable. And then whoever is the one that didn't initiate the divorce, then you know, they're however they feel about it, whether they want the person back or whether there's anger or you know, if there was some sort of betrayal or whatever, I think all of those things you know, are are part of the divorce, but ultimately if you can take your ego out of it and just focus on the kids and say, okay, that was that. We can each deal with that separately. But now our focus is how are we gonna raise these humans that we created in a way that is loving and caring and productive and where we don't screw them up even though our marriage failed. And that can
Brandon: Yeah. Right.
Anna Goff: be really hard.
Brandon: Yeah, it is. It's it's a lot of it is a lot of ego and it's like and you're gonna be experiencing emotions on levels you've never experienced before in your entire life. And so, you know, like I always Looked at myself as an emotionally mature person or someone who focused on personal development and that sort of thing. But I wasn't I was not prepared for the storm of emotions that would come up after divorce. And and a lot of people say like divorce is hard, but I would say even the first year after divorce is probably harder than going through the process of divorce. And that was like extremely difficult. Like it there was moments where it felt like my soul was being ripped in half. And it was like nights where my son would come out and something would be wrong, we could down to the corvette. And him and I are both. like crying on the couch together, you know, like I was just nah I was not prepared for the amount of that. And then when you're in those states to then point blame to is so easy. to do. And I think that's the other thing. It's like there's a lot of ego, but there's also a lot of like you're just trying to get yourself to a an emotional state that you can manage. And sometimes releasing anger can help you get there. And those are the sort of things you have to like keep in in check. And and if you do mess up, because it's gonna happen, like you're gonna probably snap at your axe and do these things. It's about repair, it's about like learning from that and just trying to do better. And if you can just do that and you have two people, even if you just have one person doing that, it can totally change the dynamic. Between the two parents.
Molly Rubesh: Yeah, I do
Anna Goff: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: think that somebody has to go first. And
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: when you are in a situation where it's such high stress, I believe that my ex husband would have wanted to fight every single day forever. And I became so easy to work with that, you know, and I know it's like, what about boundaries? And I'm like, I did this for the betterment of my children and for my emotional well-being and for the entire dynamic I became so easy to work with as a co-parent that he became so easy to work with as a co-parent. So for example, if it was my Saturday and he was going to the lake with friends and the he, I'm like, you should take the kids. It will be fun. They want to go on a boat instead of sit at mom's house and do nothing. And
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: And as hard as that is, I had to put my ego aside because it's my day, but I let the kids go. And so then that pays back tenfold when my daughter's like, Can I stay at mom's house tonight? You know, because
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: we just let that go. And somebody has to be the person that goes first in letting their guard down. And I had an an amazing therapist, I had amazing friends. It's not that I became superhuman, I just deflected my anger and my hurt and my energy to somebody else versus him. And
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: I always say if they couldn't hold you emotionally within your marriage, they're definitely not gonna hold you emotionally within your divorce. So it's so important to have your team.
Brandon: Yeah, I think that's r that's really Great. And I th my ex wife and I are in a very similar boat. Like right now, just because the summers she's going back to school right now. And so her we actually had to change around our entire summer schedule. And so we navigated that really well. But the way that July lined up, I was gonna have my kids for like seventeen, eighteen days in a row and she was only gonna have like four. And I could see my youngest daughter is like really struggling with that. And she's like, I just really wanna see mom and so I just messaged her and I was like, Hey, like Maddie's really struggling to to With she wants more time with you, why don't we just why don't I take some of my days and just give them to you and like do this? And she was like very open, like grateful for that. And it's like, yeah, thank you. Like that sounds great. I'm really missing them. And and those sort of things I think happen. And it's really interesting because there we do still have moments of just like the anger will come out or this will come out, or there's a little remark here, or something like that. But we actually It wasn't a very healthy dynamic in our marriage because we wouldn't really talk about the root cause of what caused it, but we would fight and then we would just like let it go and move on. And that caused a lot of resentment in the marriage. But actually as co-parents, that dynamic works really well because I don't need we don't need to go through our resentments in this. We're not married anymore, you know? But
Molly Rubesh: Yeah, yeah, right.
Brandon: as co-parents, like the bickering and the fighting and then the like, okay, we got that out. Now let's actually like do what's best for the kid the kids. We do have a very good dynamic when it comes when it comes to that. But it wasn't like that the first year. The first year was not like that at all. And so now we got through I feel like we the first year was like a big emotional release and just figuring out this
Molly Rubesh: Yeah.
Brandon: new life. And then now we're we're seems to be back on track. But I am very I look back. This is what I tell people the time is. Look back, like you want to be able to look back at your time and go like, I'm really proud of how I handled myself then. You don't want to look back going like I wish I would have not done this or this would really hurt my kids in this way. And so that's one of the motivators for me is to one, want to have more peace in my life, but two, I'm like, I just want my kids to be okay through divorce. Cause we have I'm sure we've all heard it. It's like the divorce isn't necessarily what causes problems for kids, it's the parents fighting and and that's whether you're married or divorced. And and I think that's the thing that people have to pay attention to is is what your kids are witnessing between you and your parent is like will determine how they're gonna be as adults.
Molly Rubesh: Okay. Mm-hmm.
Anna Goff: Yeah, I remember hearing this saying that was, You're you get a second chance at love after being divorced, but your kids only get one chance, one shot at a childhood. And
Brandon: Mm.
Anna Goff: that really stuck with me because putting putting all of the other stuff aside, realizing like this is their one little precious time where they're only gonna be nine years old this one, you know, one time, they're only gonna have these milestones once. And if in the backdrop they're worried about your feelings as a parent and they're worried about, you know, is it mom's day or dad's day and I really wanna be with mom, but if I tell Dad that then he's gonna get upset and you know, they're transitioning through life too, and they have their own things that they are worried about. And we should let them just worry about being kids instead of worrying about regulating our emotions as parents and
Brandon: Right.
Anna Goff: that dynamic or being in the middle or not wanting to say something because it could upset the other parent or whatever. So
Brandon: I th it just comes down to emotional maturity. I think like if you look at what you know, the emotions you're going through in the middle of the divorce and how bad you want to release those emotions, you have to understand your kids are also experiencing the same thing. Like they're emotional going through emotions and they want to release it. But if you don't create a safe environment for them to do that, you know what they're gonna do? They're gonna keep that inside. They're gonna keep that buried down deep. And that causes not just like the psychological damage, but there's been it's proven that that causes illnesses, it causes physical injuries. Like when you harbor in those sort of emotions, that that's what you're doing to your child. When you can't get your own emotions in check to be able to create a safe environment where they can say, like, I really miss mom right now. Or I really wish you guys didn't get divorced. my kids tell me all sorts of things. Like, I just it feels unfair. I really want you guys to get back together. I'm really missing mom right now. I don't want to go to mom's house. I want to stay here because I'm going miss you. all of these different things. And sometimes, yeah, it's hard to hear. Like, I don't really necessarily enjoy. Saying, I wish I was at mom's house right now because I want blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know? I explore that. I get curious with it. I go, okay, well, tell me more about that. How does it make you feel? What can we do here that a little bit differently? Is there anything you need today? And then when you start to learn that you don't have to take everything in life so damn personally all the time, it will transform yourself and will transform the relationships that you have because it creates a level of safety with everyone around you and it creates a stronger bond, is actually what it does.
Molly Rubesh: It's so good. I mean, you said you're you're two younger girls. My daughter struggled so much. She was seven when we got divorced, and she just missed me. She just was a little girl that wanted to be with her mom. And it had nothing to do with not loving dad. But when she would come home, then she would cry and say, I don't want to hurt daddy's feelings. I'm so worried about hurting daddy's. I'm like, Daddy's okay, he's okay, you know, and and so then it's like her trying to hold the emotional burden of her dad. I'm like, dad's a grown man. He can take care of his own emotions. You're not hurting his feelings. And she's like, I love him though. I'm like, I know. But she's like, but I just want to be with you. And it's
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: just because she's a little girl that wants to be with her mom. I braid her hair. I come in the shower, you I rinse the conditioner out at that age. Not now. But
Brandon: Right.
Molly Rubesh: you know, I mean it's
Anna Goff: Okay.
Molly Rubesh: like it We have and and my son likes to be with dad. I mean, he thought dad was cool. They did their things outside and and so we have to give our kids that grace that it doesn't mean anything about us as a parent. It just means they have a lot of times the most influential person in a child's life is the same sex parent and they just have
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: that bond. And then they don't need to be responsible of choosing who they love more. And that
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: they want to be with mom or be with dad doesn't mean anything. Like you have to pick. I think that is actually so hard for children to understand. My my son now is 18 and he just graduated high school and he's like, I'm just gonna keep following the custody schedule. And I'm like, Connor, you I mean, you don't have to, you're a grown adult.
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: You don't have to go to Mondays and Tuesdays with dad. And he's like, I'm just gonna. I I just like that. It's routine. And I'm just gonna follow that for now. And it gives him the permission that he's not choosing, you know, he's a really fun loving, well rounded man. He's not hurting, but he wants to see dad and he wants to see mom and so he just
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: manages life that way and it becomes part of their their life, even though they they didn't sign up for it, you know.
Brandon: Yeah. one of the perspective shifts that I had during all of this is like all those hard times where they are saying like I do miss mom or like they are starting to feel responsible for the other person's emotions, one of the things that I started to realize and and sort of was like my driver during the my like North Star during all this is that you know you can't control what happens at the other person's house or how your kids are going respond to things. So if you are in a situation where your kids are taking on the other adults emotions or they're afraid of saying something because they don't want the other hurt the other person's feeling, it actually is a really great opportunity to start teaching your kids to have a better relationship with making people uncomfortable and being okay with that, which I think is like it's a very And instead of talking negatively about the other person, or you shouldn't have to do that, it's an opportunity to tell them, in life, like it's okay to speak your truth, even if it makes people uncomfortable to advocate for yourself, even if it's gonna make me or your dad or whoever upset and to have a really good relationship with yourself and your own feelings and verbalizing that is the most important part. And it's okay, to let dad be upset. And that is an okay dynamic to happen. You just need to main maintain your your steadiness in that. And I think, you know, a lot of the things that really helped me is I took a lot of these really painful moments with my kids and used them as opportunities to help them become more emotionally in tune and and learn how to advocate for themselves and learn how to make other people uncomfortable. Cause I think that's a big problem even with adults is a lot of people are not okay with people being mad at them or making someone uncomfortable. And then you get put in a box or you start bending into something you're not or you're just constantly walking on eggshells. And so I started to look at everything happening in the divorce as an opportunity to actually help my children instead of something that's going to like destroy my children. And I think a lot more parents would benefit if they also like looked for opportunities like that to help their kids to help their kids grow.
Molly Rubesh: Totally agree. I love that.
Anna Goff: What a what a great gift to give, especially well, to your children, all of them, but especially to your daughters, to not be a people pleaser And I think more parents should teach that. But I think a lot of parents don't know that themselves so it's very hard to pass that on.
Brandon: Yeah.
Anna Goff: What would you say to people who maybe don't have don't see eye to eye on implementing some of these things in their co-parenting dynamic.
Brandon: I would say, you know, like the first year for me, it very much was that dynamic. it it was really it was really hard and and it's it's calmed down is since the first year. the th the fur so I'll just speak from my own experience and the lessons I learned in that. And and number one is that Well, there's a lot of lessons. So I think the f the first one I want to dive into is I think grace. Well, first of all, you can't control what happens over there and trying to control or change, get them to change behavior is not gonna like you probably tried to do that in your marriage and it didn't work. Like no one's gonna change unless they actually wanna change. So then that leads to the next part of it, which is you can only control how you handle it, how you take it, how you let it affect you, all of those sort of things. Like you're in control of that. That's the only thing you're control of. So you have to learn to let let go of that. The thing that really helped me was giving my ex more grace and empathy. And I was with, we were together since we were 15 and 16 years old. We were six we were high school sweethearts. Her dad was my cross-country coach. He coached me, like her her dad when we started our when we started our our business. When we started our our business her parents let us live at their house totally rent-free for four years. They had no idea what I was doing. They're like, Brandon's just farting around on YouTube all day long and get married to our daughter, and he's supposed support her, but they didn't ask me any questions. one of the most impactful people in in my life. so I knew their family very well. I knew the dynamic very well. I loved all of them. And that love dish didn't go away, but th the point where I'm getting at is that I held a lot of empathy for my ex-wife because I knew her childhood. I knew a lot of the traumas that she went through. And I knew why she was the way that she was. And I'm not saying that as a negative thing. She just everyone is a certain way, right? Because of our past. And so I'm just saying I had a deeper understanding of why she's reacting this way or how she was. And I just what I started to do is just started to look
Anna Goff: Sorry.
Brandon: with more empathy as to you're just another human being trying to survive in this role just as much as I am. And I may have some more tools to be able to navigate emotions a little bit better that you don't have yet. And so when I started to operate and look at her with more empathy of like, you've had a really hard childhood. You did have these traumatic experiences happen in your life. And they do cause you to be in fight or flight easier than me. And so when I started to look at her through the lens of just like, you're another human being trying to make it in this world who's gone through some really hard things. And I understand that these reactions are a result of that. It's not really a result of me. I was able to like navigate with a lot more grace and and operate with a lot more compassion because I could have made her life a a lot worse. Like there were things that happened that I could have pushed full force and made it a lot worse. But I looked at that and I go, like I understand her. I understand why she's doing this. I understand that she's struggling and she's in a lot of pain. Like the mother of my children is in is in a lot of pain right now. Like it's not because I'm a bad guy. It's not because I'm doing something wrong. It's because she's in pain and that's like it's making me teary. I talking about it. Like That's someone I spent 25 years of my life with, someone I had kids with. And so I operated with a lot more compassion. And I think a lot more people need to look beyond their own emotions and understand that like someone treats you that way is because there's there's demons that they're battling. And yeah, you need to like protect your your your peace and you need to like have boundaries and know what is acceptable and not. But it doesn't also mean you need to push everything to the extreme and get even with each other all the time. Because it just creates an awful dynamic that honestly will never change. You know, like I I look at this and I'm like, I don't want the next 15 years of my life to be what this first year was. And I remember
Molly Rubesh: Right.
Brandon: talking to a therapist and and when we were married, and I'm like, why am I always the one that has to like change? And why am I always the one that like has to initiate this and hold the peace and do this thing? And why am I always one that has to validate? And she goes, Because right now you're the only one that can. She doesn't have the capacity to do that. So you're gonna have to do it. And I remember that because in the first year I was like, she doesn't have the capacity to do it. She's in so much pain. She doesn't have the capacity to do it. So I'm gonna have to do it. And I'm gonna do it for the sake of the family unit that we still have. Cause you still are a family, whether you guys want to admit it or not. You're just not married, but you're still family. There's still a unit. And I think that I don't even remember what the original question was, but hopefully that answers it. But that's sort of how my mindset was in that first first year.
Molly Rubesh: It's so important what you just said to be able to recognize that your partner or your ex-partner is going it is going through their own stuff. And we do all come to the marriage with our own stuff from childhood, our own traumas, our own belief systems. And unless we are doing our own work earlier, which here's another note for doing earlier work, so then marriages don't crumble, but okay. And w then you're divorcing and then you add insult to injury and heartbreak and tons of shame and insecurity and self-doubt and rejection that my gosh, the person that you know, Brandon, you were her safe place for so long. And she was a young girl when she met you and you grow together and you build this life together and then you have children together. And then The marriage ends and it's like, who are we? Who are we without this person that we grew up with and that knows me and you know, you loved your in-laws? And so it's so complex and there's such pain around it. Then you have little kids that are saying things like, I want to see mommy or, you know, Daddy, I like daddy better. And you're like, What do you mean? And so then it's more rejection and more pain. So it's so beautifully said that we have to recognize that. A lot of this isn't even about us as the partner,
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: the the ex, the the current spouse, the ex, the co-parent. It's just deeper than that. And when we can do our own stuff and heal, then we can see it for what it's worth. And unfortunately, like you asked, why do I have to be the one? That that's just the way it is. Some whoever
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: is the more balanced, healthier, able person has to rise to the occasion. No different if we were like rowing a boat and you cramped up, we wouldn't get there very fast, but I would start rowing.
Brandon: Right.
Molly Rubesh: You know, it's like somebody's got to pick up the slack who has the capability to do it. And that is where I said, that's why one of us has to go first. That's why in co parenting, one of us has to be the one.
Brandon: Yeah. Someone has to create that environment. And and also I d I really don't want this to come off as my ex was terrible the first year and I wasn't. Like I did a lot of things that probably further that, but when I had the opportunity To push it or not push it, I chose not to. And you know, I I think I always remember this is a like business advice that I got a long time ago, but dealing with employees. But since I heard this quote where it's like if a flower doesn't bloom, you don't always just blame the flower, you blame the environment, the environment. So if you're not creating an environment for the flower to thrive, then the flower will never thrive. And I think when you have two people constantly fighting, you're creating an environment where there never will be peace. And so someone has to be The one to start to change the environment. And then when the environment starts to change, the path, whether they choose to walk down that path or not, is at least open. It's not gated up anymore. It's it's open, and there's at least a chance that eventually you can move towards that. And I think also just I I honestly just think empathy is one of the biggest things that you can have. And just recognize, like, I really don't think humans want to be mean to each other. I don't think we're doing we're doing it because we're in survival or fight or flight or because we like and that is usually a result of our past. Like I think genuinely people wanna get along. Like I don't think people want anxiety and just like what is this person gonna do? And are they gonna take me back to court and my god, over the this no one like no one like no one wants that, you know? And so if you're the first one to start creating that environment, I like to believe that they will change or it'll just be easier over time. Not instantly, but over time it'll definitely
Molly Rubesh: Right. Yeah. It takes it
Brandon: The possibilities there at least.
Molly Rubesh: takes time.
Anna Goff: Yeah. And modeling that for your children, you know, sometimes especially if kids are a little bit older, you feel like you need to explain what happened or validate yourself and say, Well dad did this and dad did that and so that's why I left or that's or he's acting like this. And you don't have to do that. Just stay the consistent, steady, eddy parent that they know. And they'll
Brandon: Yeah.
Anna Goff: see, and as they grow, they'll learn and they can make their own decision and their own observations and knowing that you are that guiding light, that lighthouse in the relationship, they have comfort in that. And even if they're going back and forth knowing that there is a parent who's emotionally regulated, who is that steady person, that constant, and that that hasn't changed, you don't have to prove anything to your kids. They will see.
Brandon: Right.
Anna Goff: They know you and they know your ex better than anyone else in the world and they can pick up on things whether you say things or not. They know what's going on. So you don't have
Brandon: Yeah.
Anna Goff: to validate that to prove yourself or your worthiness in their lives.
Brandon: Yeah, exactly. I agree with that.
Molly Rubesh: I
Anna Goff: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: I I like the the thought of what we need from our ex what we needed f from him in marriage was a husband, a partner, a confidant, our lover. And what we need from them in a co parenting situation is just to be a really good dad and a co
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: parent. So when you remove that emotional tether, then it makes it a lot easier. And what your kids, again, they're allowed to love their dad because we're not asking them to get married to him. I
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: don't believe that my ex husband was a really good husband, but I can't say he's not a good dad. And so my kids
Brandon: Yeah, two separate things.
Molly Rubesh: don't have to choose because they're not marrying him. He he's just their dad.
Brandon: Yeah. I and the things that I think a lot of parents in divorce don't understand is you're like as long as the person's not abusive, the other parents not physically or emotionally abusive, they're gonna love that parent whether you like it or not. So that there's no you're not gonna be able to win that battle. And I don't know why you would want to. Like, why would you want them to
Molly Rubesh: You don't want to.
Brandon: not love the other parents? And there was a couple of things that I that I did that I think helped my kids through this, which helped them further build a better connection with their mom during this process. And I got this from a family therapist that I was working with. Because I we haven't even talked about this part of it yet. We can if you guys want to, but I actually started dating someone and that was a whole nother a whole nother can of worms as well. But during that process, I was working with a family per therapist to figure out how to navigate that whole thing and because it caught me off guard. It was not a I didn't want to date anyone. I was not expecting to date anyone. I was not ready for a relationship and then this it just naturally happened. So I was like, okay, I need to figure out how to navigate someone's family therapist. And you said, well, one of the things you're gonna want to you that I really recommend you do. Is really help your kids build the relationship with your mom, with their mom, not because they necessarily need it, but because if they can see you encouraging them to have a relationship with their mom that's gonna be a very healthy dynamic that will you can create in your household. and so one of the pieces of advice she did is she said, look at your kids and compliment them on things that are the other parent. And I was like, okay, so and this means physically, this means emotionally, this means personality-wise, like all of these things. And so I d I did it a couple different ways, but I remember when I I did it with her hair color one time and I just cause she's the only person in the entire family has the same hair color as her mom, and she was really struggling with some self-conscious things, and I just said, you know, honey, like you have this might sound weird, but I just really always love your hair because it's the same color as your mom, and you guys share that together. You guys both look so beautiful. When your hair is done, and that color just really when the sun hits it, it just looks absolutely stunning. And that was like one of the things with your mom, and every time she was like at the beach or something, like it was just and I just saw the look on her face just completely transformed. There was ease over her entire body, and then I was I I couldn't, I was so caught off guard the amount of power that had over like of emotional power over my kids, and now I do it all the time with like that the thing you Laughed at, or this thing you joked about, that's this that's the same sense of humor with your mom. And that's like one of her best qualities that I've always like loved. You get that from your mom. That's so amazing. Like you should do that more. You know, that sort of thing where you compliment your child, but you're secondly complimenting your ex. And I did a video on this on Instagram, and I got a lot of like different pieces of feedback. And a lot of the people were like, Well, I can't, I can't ever do that because my ex is terrible, and blah blah blah blah blah. And it's like Doing that has nothing to do with your ex. By doing that, you're not complimenting your ex. You're complimenting your child on parts of them. And I think what starts to happen, if you don't create that environment and you there is toxic toxicity between the two parents, kids will start to recognize, I have this part of me that is a part of the other parent and my p dad or mom doesn't like the other parent. I should have shame around this part of me.
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brandon: And there's like these underlying things that I think kids are going through that a lot of parents don't take into consideration, where you they are a part of you physically, personality-wise, they are a part of both of you guys. And anytime that you're like knocking down the X, you don't know how your kids are gonna internalize that. They could be building
Anna Goff: Mm-hmm.
Brandon: whole subconscious shame wire in their head around those things because of how you Talk to your ex. And so I think that was like the single most powerful advice that I got during this entire divorce process. It was it was transformative.
Molly Rubesh: It's kind of nice.
Brandon: Yeah.
Anna Goff: Especially when other people say things like, you look just like your dad or your mom or when they are the ones that do it too and then if everything is negative that's coming from you then they do start to feel maybe shame around those parts of them or even think, Well, I love my dad or I'm part of my dad so since she hates him so much, she must hate a part of me or
Brandon: Right.
Anna Goff: I'm a reflection of him and so she must hate that
Brandon: Yeah.
Anna Goff: part.
Brandon: Yeah. It's very underlooked, I feel like. A lot of people don't realize that.
Anna Goff: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's a really great point.
Molly Rubesh: So dating post divorce, you know, since you brought that up, did you introduce her to your kids? Are you guys still in relationship? Like what's how did that work?
Brandon: Yeah, we are still in a relationship. So it was it was it was pretty quick after it was not like something that I was looking for or expecting.
Molly Rubesh: Mm-hmm.
Brandon: But it was only a couple months after the divorce and I was still in a lot of pain. Like I was still processing the divorce. I was just I I was not in a great place. Like I was just not functioning very well. And and it was it's very interesting. Like y I know you mentioned that you're each other's safe space for so long that you're not. It was like I remember the first like week or two after like finally being in my own place, being so emotionally upset, but also wanting my ex to be next to me because that was my emotional safety for 25 years. And I'm like, this is such a weird position to be in. But a couple months later I was in I was in better space, but still like dealing with it. I mean, it it's divorce takes a while. So We went to this school event and my youngest daughter just walked up to this lady and was like, That's my dad, and he's divorced and he doesn't my mom and dad don't live together anymore. And she's like, okay. But she was like working the event that we were
Molly Rubesh: She's your wingman, huh?
Brandon: we were yeah, she just went right up to her. I
Anna Goff: With your wings. Yeah.
Brandon: was like, my gosh, like what is that? Was really weird. And then so they started they were like doing hoo loop together at this event. It was like a workout event at the school. And then I overheard them talking and sh she's like, Do your kids here? Like she and she's No, they're with her dad. So then I realized she was divorced. And then I just sort of felt like I thought she was cute and I sort of felt like she d maybe was thinking that with me. And I was just kind of and then I remember thinking, should I ask her out? I'm like this way too early. I'm not but I remember thinking, I need something new in my life. I need a new experience. I need something to get my mind off the divorce. It's just a date. So we went out on the date and it we just ended up talking all night and then just kept talking and talking and talking and talking and talking. and then we really went through this like it's probably a little it's too early for you to be doing any of this stuff. So we just kind of casually dated and talked. And then the way that our community is set up, there's a park and everyone always goes to the park. So we kept running into each other at the park. And then we started, our kids started like seeing each other at the park and then we started dating a little bit more. And then it just became this thing where it was like it was actually very healing for me to see what a healthy dynamic can look like between you know you and a and a partner. And then a couple months later we made it an official thing and then By that point the kids had already known her because we were at the park and school. And then like people started to find out. So my ex and I had this this like agreement that we wouldn't bring anyone around the kids until a year of dating. And I broke that agreement, but it was I I I had to because so many people were sort of picking up on what was going on. And I didn't want my kids to find out like on school ground, like, well, your dad's dating, blah, blah, So I had to, and that didn't make my ex very happy. And then, but that's also why I'm like held even more grace, because like, If the roles were reversed, I w this would be very, very painful for me. And and so that's why I gave her a lot of grace, because there's like not only divorce now, there's this thing's happening pretty quickly. And I w I wasn't expecting it and and I just knew she was in even more pain. And so I tried to navigate it as best as I could. We're still together. it's we've been dating for a year and a half now and and it's been going really well. And so That was just a very unexpected thing that I would have never guessed would have happened. I wasn't looking for it. I didn't to be honest, I didn't even want it. And then I just bl came out of nowhere and blossomed. But it was very interesting because a lot of people you always hear the advice of you shouldn't date until you're fully healed. And that was always running in my head. And then I started to talk to therapists and different people. And they go a lot of people talk about how dating someone can actually be a very healing experience and you can heal in the process of that. So we did. you know, I was very honest with her, like here's where I'm at. I don't like we it probably is early and I'm pro I am still detaching and doing these things. So like, you know, I'm just gonna be honest with you with where I'm at and we'll just see where it goes. And so now we've been together for a year and a half and it's been going pretty well and all of our kids get along and and my ex wife seems to be dealing with it better. Like it's a normal thing now. And and so yeah, it's it's been a journey. It's been a lot of unexpectedness the last couple of years.
Anna Goff: Mm. Yeah. I had a similar situation where I started dating someone really quickly and it was healing because we had a great line of communication. And so I was it was such a safe place for me. And similar to you and your ex wife, I knew him from the time I was in middle school. So it was a very safe place. And it was nice to go through and heal in that way where you can you know, I think there's a sort of a sense of empowerment after divorce where you're like, listen, I've already been through hell, so I'm just gonna lay it out on the line and communicate in a way that I want. And if you can't handle it, then maybe we're not meant to be, and that's fine and I can take it, you know, and and if it doesn't align and there were things ultimately after dating for a year and a half or almost two years that didn't align long term and so we ended up splitting up, but it was very healing and very cathartic to go through that with someone that was a safe person. yeah.
Brandon: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean there's a lot of emotions and like you know self-doubt or insecurities or and you start to think too and like at least I was, I was thinking like I don't is it isn't even gonna be possible to find someone after divorce, like all the good people are married now and like
Anna Goff: Right.
Brandon: all these other things. And I I was and then there was a part of me that good that was like I actually just want to work on myself for the first year too. Like what what was my role in the marriage and like are there things that I can work on and and do that. And and that was really what I wanted to do. And what I didn't realize is starting to date actually escalated that also. Cause then your pat like the patterns that you didn't fix or weren't aware of, they still are there. You know, the behaviors are still there. And so then at like being in the relationship, those would come out and she's like, hey, I noticed blah blah blah blah blah. And I'm like, man, like I'm run I'm falling back into these other dynamics. So it actually helped me heal but also allowed me to still work on myself. And it it it lo it also showed me what communication can be between two people because the communication in my marriage was not great. And to now be with someone who honestly was more grounded and in clear communicator than I was was like I need to up my game. And so I've actually learned a lot from her in different ways, which has been Which has been really great, but it's just, I don't know. This life is just so crazy. It's just I was not expecting to really get divorced ever. I was not expecting to date someone so soon. I was not expecting to last a year and a half. Everything in my life that's happening right now, none of it was expected. None of it was expected. but there's been great lessons in growth and all.
Molly Rubesh: Yeah, I I think we can all say that, right?
Anna Goff: That is life.
Molly Rubesh: I mean it's I would I always would say divorce isn't a an option for me. Divorce that was my b that was my plan. Divorce isn't an option for me. And of course I'm divorced and I'm remarried
Brandon: Yeah. Right. Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: and I'm a stepmom and you know, I mean it's like we blended our families and I wouldn't choose any other path. I mean, where I am right now with the man that I'm married to with my journey. I would do it all over again to have the safe love and partnership that I have. So I mean, anybody that is in our community that is listening, it I think this is just such a great example of how you can get through the storm of divorce. You can find a way to, give yourself grace one year. Post divorce, high conflict with your partner, it's not too late to kind of change the course, change the tone. You can be the one that goes first. You're allowed to fall in love. You're allowed to enjoy this life. I mean, gosh, har life is hard enough to
Brandon: Yeah.
Molly Rubesh: not be able to like put yourself back out there and actually have joy and love and passion and partnership and all of it.
Brandon: I mean, I really do believe, however you want to look at it, universe, God, whatever your belief system is, is that when you're not where you're supposed to be, the universe, God, whoever, whatever, will just destroy everything. And and most of us look at destruction as a bad thing. But I've been on my entrepreneurial journey, I've I've realized enough times that every quote unquote bad situation or unwanted experience in my life has led always without fail led to something better. And if you're sitting there saying, well, that's not true for me, it's means you're still in the middle of it. You just haven't gotten to the better part. But I also believe like you have to have that belief and you have to have that understanding and you have to have be on the lookout for what are the lessons and other areas to grow. And I do believe that like it will destroy things to move you into alignment of where you need to be. And I re I because I remember thinking in my marriage, you know, it's like all it's there's always the be careful what you wish for. I remember thinking, I I want to be closer. I want to feel safer to be exactly who I am and have my own beliefs and to express my opinions without having to walk on eggshells. And I just want to like have someone that would meet me halfway in the household like all these things. I was like, this is just what I want. But I wanted it with her, you know what I mean? And but at the end of the day, I I want those are the things that I wanted. And those are the things that I wished for. And then everything had to fall apart for me to to get what it was that I wanted in a partner. And it just unfortunately wasn't with my ex-wife. It's it could be with the person I'm with now, but I do believe that I will end up with that. But that's what I wished for and that's what I wanted. And the universe goes, Okay, we will give that to you. But are you willing to walk through the fire to get what you want? You know, and and so I remember I w I worked with a shaman and one of the things he told me way back in the day, he he was like, A lot of people want like the million dollar business. And the universe will give you the million dollar business. But the reason why you don't have the million dollar business right now is because you're not the person who can build the million dollar business. So what the universe is gonna do is it's gonna shape you into the person who can build the million dollar business. And he goes, And that's just business, it's anything. The universe will shift and shape and give you the lessons if you're aware enough to see them, to have exactly what you want. But everyone just wants what they want without the pain, without the problems, without the suffering. It's like that's not how the world works. So if you
Molly Rubesh: Right.
Brandon: you really want those things, like it's gonna cause destruction of the life that you have. And sometimes it will just drag us, even if we don't want to, kicking and screaming the entire way. And so I do.
Anna Goff: Make it.
Brandon: believe that anyone can have what they want. It just might require your old life, which is painful, but it's beautiful on the other side.
Molly Rubesh: Ooh, I love it. I love that. For everybody. Yes. Yes. So good. We need to have your shaman on here. Well,
Anna Goff: Yeah. Yeah. Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it, right?
Brandon: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I know.
Anna Goff: Right.
Molly Rubesh: Brandon, this was such a great conversation. I know that our listeners are going to adore it. And thank you for being just a grounded male voice, a good father, somebody that's working to be the best co-parent that you can be. I mean, we just need more of all of that. in our world and in our space and so we we definitely on behalf of women that we coach and support we we definitely appreciate you using your platform to help other people be fathers or mentors and we all can learn from you. So where can our listeners find you?
Brandon: Yeah, I think the easy easiest place is just go to grounded dot parenting on all social platforms. We're on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, all the places. so just go there and check out the content we have because if you like this conversation, I have a lot of content around similar stuff. So head over there and check us out.
Molly Rubesh: Awesome. And we will drop the links below. So thank you so much for joining us on another episode of the Aligned Podcast. If you like what you heard today, please like, rate, review, and share with your friends. And we'll see you next week on another episode.
