nancy: Today's guest unlocked the telekinesis in me and then sent me a meditation that made me float. Her name is Sydney Krause. She's an artist, neon artist, creative director, and lifelong entrepreneur working at the intersection of art, sound, and altered states. Now, as a sonic vessel travel guide, she creates experiences designed to take people elsewhere. We met at PsyGames, a first of its kind event that brings people together from around the world. To learn, explore, and compete in categories like remote viewing, mindsight, precognition, psychokinesis, and dousing, in the name of expanding what we understand about human potential. Thank you so much for being here, Sydney. I am so stoked to reconnect with you and get to know you better, because we just met in a flash. It's CyGames.
Sydney: Yeah.
nancy: And I especially want to talk about your out-of-body experience. Can we start there? What led to this out-of-body experience? And how did that connect to what you're building with the Sonic Vessel?
Sydney: Thanks, Nancy. So my mom got really sick. It was about two years ago now. And I had to leave my home in Montreal with my daughter and my husband and go to Winnipeg, which is where my family is from and where I grew up in the middle of Canada, and take care of my essentially dying mother. with my sister. And not only did I have to take care of my dying mother, but I also had to take over the family business and run it, which was a hundred-year-old pickle company, and take care of its 30 employees and wake up at the crack of dawn in the middle of nowhere. And you know, run the company whilst trying to sell it because my sisters and I did not want to take it over. I would have taken it over if it was in Montreal because I love the company and it's a great company, but I wasn't about to bring my husband who's from Marseille, France, the south of France, to Winnipeg. It would have just n not worked. So two two different, totally different worlds. So that was really, really, really hard. Like really hard. But I was doing it with my sister Peyton. She lives in Vancouver. And so we kind of met halfway and taking care of my mom and taking care of the pickle company while we were trying to sell it. So my mom wanted to sell it. For many years, but she you know, she would get really annoyed with people when they were like asking questions about the business. She'd be like, That's enough! Like I that's I don't want to talk about it anymore. Like, she didn't ever go through the process, it was too overwhelming for her, and I understand why because she was running the business and trying to sell it, and she was just one person, and it was just too much for her. so You know, she was never able to sell it, but also she was never able to sell it because she just picked a number out of thin air because she saw it on a license plate and that she thought that was how much the company was worth. so she was always trying to get this like magical number that was like preposterous and like out of control because she had put so much love into it and so much. time and energy into it, it was, it became bigger than it was, you know, for her. So as outsiders, coming in, it was easier for us to separate from that and just, you know, be done with it. But needless to say, that was a very long and hard process. I think it was about a year I was coming back and forth, but I was mostly over there and my husband was taking care of our daughter. So it was a very, very trying period. And my mom passed away quite quickly after actually. So it was like I think I was there for maybe six months still taking care of her. And then after she passed, it was just taking care of the business. So It's not also a regular business. It's it's important to say it's an extremely small margin, very High stress also because we're getting our cucumbers from the states and from Mexico. So they have to be refrigerated the whole time because we do what was called fresh packed, which meant that like we were bringing in like refrigerated shipping from Mexico and the states like every week. And we were, I think we were bringing in something like What was I want to get this number right? I think it was a 58, 54 foot truck, which was carrying, you know, like tens of thousands of pounds of pickles every week. Cucumbers, sorry. So we're bringing them in and finding them, and they're they're not the right size. And it was just like is that place was just like a nightmare to run. We got it out at the exact right time though, because that's when Trump put the tariffs on and stuff like that. So that would have like just shrunk our already small margins and it would have been catastrophic. And so I definitely had some angels looking out for us at that moment. We got out right at the right time, but I came home and I was super depressed and while I was out in Winnipeg, I remember One of the nurses was like, well, like we can get you. Do you want to talk to like a therapist? Like, do you need help or whatever? And I was like, Yes, please, like, help. And they're like, you're from Quebec, sorry. Like, you have to be from Manitoba to receive the help or whatever. So it was like there was but because I was between two provinces, there was like no real help for me. And I went into like a super depression. I got home and life continued. Though you know, like you still have a toddler that wants your attention 24 hours a day. You still have to think about groceries and dishes and laundry and stuff, and it was just a lot. So, two of my best friends, one that lives in Italy, an Italian guy, Carlo, and one of my best friends that lives in Montreal, Izzy, they both sent me the gateway tapes around the same time. And I thought that was really weird and interesting. So I started practicing. And I really, really, really loved them a lot. I found them a bit eerie, but I'm not a scaredy cat. So I wasn't like put off by them by a lot of people are. I actually like love Bob so much. Bob Monroe, who was the creator along with Mr. Campbell and the other guy who I always forget his name, but I really, really, really just fell in love with them. And I fell in love with Bob and I consider Bob like I said this to the guys at the Monroe booth. I was like, I feel like he's my grandpa. You know, I never had a relationship with either one of my grandfathers. So I feel like he was like, he's the closest thing to a grandfather that I've ever had. And I really trusted them and I trusted the process. And I was you know, practicing every day, and it was my favorite part of the day. But towards like the middle of the first wave, I started to realize that I couldn't visualize anything. A lot of the you know, a lot of the what does he call them? Their sessions, I don't know what they call them, were heavily dependent on visualizing, like, you know, the energy bar tool and the color breathing and you know, even just the energy conversion box, you know. So I started getting frustrated because I was like, I'm not able to do this properly. This isn't working for me because I can't see anything, I can't visualize anything, and I started to get frustrated and I started to withdraw from the process. And at the same time, I discovered Reddit. Reddit is crazy because everybody's so supportive. I mean, I know there's a lot of people that are like, whatever, not, but like most of the time, people are really supportive, and I think that's really cool. It's kind of like going to a karaoke bar where everyone all of a sudden is your best friend and is supporting you, even though you stink, they're still, you know, there to cheer you on for some reason. So, anyways, I started doing some research and I was asking if anybody had success. with doing the gateway tapes without being able to see an eye in their own mind, in their mind's eye. And I I found out that I had what was called aphentasia. Some people have hyperaphantasia or I don't know, I think it's called hyperaphantasia or hyperphantasia. They they can see like a movie in their head, you know? And I'm like, what? People can see stuff like I thought that when people were counting sheep, that it was not literal. I thought that it was just counting in your mind. I thought that when people said, you know, I and I saw my father in in my mind's eye, that they were lying or that that it was just a figure of speech. I thought everybody was like me, that it was just total blackness, and that anyway, so I started reading that and then I I started reading that. People that have aphantasia that they can still do the gateway process and that they can actually still have an out-of-body experience through it. And that gave me hope. So I was like, okay, so it's still possible. So maybe it's more like a dream because I still dream. I dream every night, every single day I wake up and I have a dream, and most of them are very profound. So A dream state is very comfortable for me. So I know that I'm seeing in my dreams, but why can't I see when I close my eyes? So this started to really like work on my subconscious. And I remember telling my husband, I'm like, can you see your, like, can you see your dad's face in your head? And he was like, yeah. And I was like, what? What what do you mean? And and he was like, well, you can't. And I was like, no, he didn't believe me. And he was like, Are you sure? And I was like, I'm sure. You know, like I could get like a glimpse of my father's mustache, but it's not like even a glimpse. It's more like a feeling or a sense or something, like, or just a knowing. So, anyways, I started to become obsessed with this. And I was realizing that when I was doing the gateway tapes, that I was starting to feel like I was having frisson. And frisson is the French word for like shivers or something. So like when you're listening to music for the first time or at your live concert and you have that like surge of energy up your spine, I realized that that was like the same feeling that I was starting to have. So I started. To go kind of crazy in a sense, where I was like became obsessed. So I was like, how can I amplify this? Because I know it's already happening. What can I do to do that? So I decided to, you know, before I started doing a gateway tape, I would listen to new classical music in the hopes to activate this. Energy and I started to do that. I also started to draw out what an energy conversion box would be to me. So I would start to draw it out, and I would be like, yeah. And then I would imagine that my energy conversion box had a big red button. But most importantly, What I would start to do is I would start to associate a sense to it. So, like the pressing of the big red button, my finger would actually kind of go like this. So I would be, instead of just imagining my energy box, I would have to build it. And how I would build it is I would build it through the previous drawings that I'd had that are glued up to my wall. And also, my mind would start to create sounds associated to it. So, like pressing the big red button, my finger would twitch. But then also I would hear a shh release in my head. Whether I was imagining this sound or if it was happening, it didn't matter. It was just like that. I was starting associating sounds with the particular methods that Bob was talking about. And Also, I was starting to be a lot more like tactile with it. So when he's telling me to put all of my all of matter into this energy conversion box, what I would imagine is I would imagine zipping myself down all the way down and pulling myself up and squiggling out of my meat suit. And I would throw that into the energy conversion box. And what I realized now is all of that stuff is very visceral, very tactile. Like I can hear the zipper in my mind. I can feel what it feels like to peel back, like almost like you're peeling an orange open. Like I I knew what that felt like. So I started associating these feelings with these systems. And When I got really good at that, I realized, well, now I realize this later because this is something that I understood after, but that all of these senses, I was piling them up on top of each other like a screen print. So That first one doesn't really look like anything. So that first one is maybe what does it feel like to touch sand? Okay, so that's something. And then the second one is like, well, what does it feel like to have a light breeze on your face? Okay, that's something. And then slowly, you know, through all the senses, through the sense of my imaginary smell, I don't know what to call that, or You know, all these tactile senses layered one up on top of each other actually creates something in my mind's eye. And I don't like to call it like a vision, it's more like I'm perceiving something. I'm allowed to finally perceive something when all of my other senses line up. So now one day. was about a year ago now, maybe a year and a half. I do my whole process. I do the drawing, I listen to the music, the classical music, I do a gateway tape, and I believe it was on the fifth one, the fifth or sixth one in wave one. And it's just like any other day, but all of a sudden there was no tunnel or there was nothing like that. I was never looked up above my body. Like some people do when they're training to have an outer body experience, they're like, I'm just above my body. I look down, there's my body. now I'm on my roof. Now I'm looking down. That wasn't like that for me at all because what I realized later is that I skipped all I skipped the focus 12, 15, 21, 25. I skipped all of that. And I went straight to 25, which I think is the end, I believe. I went straight to you're going to go visit your dead ancestors. And I went through all of that. And I just without, you know, with just like a snap of a finger, I was over here at my chalet. And I could see 360. So when people say they have an outer body experience and they're saying so often they'll say it's realer than real. I think that's because we're able to see at that moment 360. So I'm not just seeing my peripheral and my vision. I'm actually seeing everything behind me because I have a very strong memory of that, that it was like I was like all seeing, like all the way around. So snap two, I am having an out-of-body experience. I am there. I am like, my God, what the fuck is going on?
nancy: Yeah.
Sydney: It felt like a big wind was on my face and my mom and my dad were there. my dad passed away when I was like twenty-one, I believe. And my mom had just passed away and my dad was further a bit further in the dist he was still there and he was still speaking to me, but my mom was really in the forefront. And part of me wonders if that Depth there has something to do with time and that he's further away from me. And because I just had seen my mom, you know, a few months prior, then maybe she was closer. I don't know. There's something I feel like there might be something there. So, anyways, I'm I just start asking questions because there are many questions to ask, right? so my mom said that she could see my daughter. She could see my daughter growing up. And I was like, well, because we all have this fear, right? Like who's like if people can see us, if they can see us, then they can see us when we're doing things we don't want them to see and that kind of stuff that like you feel like you're not alone. It kind of makes you feel a little bit weird. And she said, I said, Well mom, can you see me whenever you want? And she said, No, honey, it's whenever you want. And that kind of I have All my all my hair is stood up on my on my arms because that moment was really, really meaningful to me. Because it's like you're opening by doing the gateway tapes. I was literally opening up my channel, saying, Hey, I'm here. I want to see you. Or when I screamed out the night before I had my out-of-body experience, I screamed out, I just want to see my mom. You know, or I said no, I said, I just want to talk to my mom. I screamed that out. And I feel like the universe responded to me in that way. So yeah, she said she could see my my daughter. My dad said that he, because he never met my husband. He said that he loved Fab and that and that he's such a nice guy and that he can see what a good guy he is. And my mom said that she sees everything all the good that I'm doing. And she said, Not everybody sees it, but I do. And It was really, really, really profound and I said, But mom, if It just didn't make much sense to me that how if I could see them, how come I couldn't see more? You know, like why is it just limited to them right now? Like, where what am I looking at? Like, where are you? What is this world around you? Like, what does that look like? And my mom kind of like kind of like snapped her fingers or something, and then she showed me it was like, you know. multiple panes of glass and they were all going like behind her and in between every pane of glass, like kind of like a microscope if you're putting a specimen in between it, there was different worlds between each set of panes of glass. So at that moment I'm looking at her and go and it just like spread out and I saw like all of the realms all at once or all of the possibilities all at once or all of the timelines all at once. And I was seeing that on on every different pane of glass there was a different reality. So she's she just said it's this and then I I realized that It's kind of just a perception. It's kind of just of what pane of glass you're on at that moment. And that's why it made me think that my dad was put maybe on a different pane of glass further away. I say pane of glass because it's just it was like like a cross-section of reality, you know. So That was really amazing. and she said, you know, you don't know, but I'm telling you that it's true that we will be together again. And So I can't remember what else happened at that exact moment. I took notes, I came out and I was completely soaked. And in fact, I came out of my outer body experience. I think the meditation must have ended. That's what happened. And I came out of it and I tried to get back in. And I tried to get back in and I realized that that part was more of my imagination. That's when the thing became more like a dream and it didn't feel real really anymore. And because I just wanted to go back and I wanted to be with them again, but I came out and I was completely soaked. The bed was completely soaked. And I realized that I felt that wind on my face, but what that wind really was was tears. I was just like, it was like my whole, I was just my tear ducts were open and I was just soaked, absolutely soaked. The bed was soaked, the pillow was soaked. I had a pillow on my face because at that point I never I didn't have a mask yet. So I had like a pillow on my face that was soaked. And then I like go into the the living room and my husband's there working and he like sees me and he was like, you know, what just happened? And I just, you know, I I told him everything. And he was like, whoa. Okay, like that was really crazy. and then he started phoning his family. And and I was like, okay, hold on, hold on. Let me like, let me like sit in this, you know, for a minute. Like I had no idea what just happened, but I know that I had an out-of-body experience, and I know that the gateway tapes were designed to do that, and I know that it worked. But I also knew that I had to tweak it for it to work for me. So that day I Had a lunch scheduled with my friend Lisa, and I hadn't seen her in months and months. And we are like longtime collaborators. She's an amazing musician. And I would often do the visuals for her shows or for her music videos. we always kind of worked together. We used to work at a bar together. and I had this lunch scheduled with her for like weeks and I was like, well, I still have to go to this lunch. You know, I'm not gonna cancel, even though I was like a I was a mess. I was like a total mess. I recorded my experience directly into my like voice note, and then I transcribed it, and then like I kept it. I'm like, I don't wanna miss or lose any of this. So I decided to go for this lunch, and that's all we talked about because I couldn't, you know, talk about anything else. And I remember I was just like pretty much sobbing the whole time. And Lisa was sobbing and we were sobbing and I was just telling her all about it and it was very, very, very, very real and realer than anything that I've ever experienced. And the moment The moments after that, like up months after that, I'd say maybe a month or two months after that, I was just like completely raw. Like Everything would make me cry. I'd always been like that. My friend, my best friend Ali was like, You've always been like this, but
nancy: Ha ha.
Sydney: but it was different. Like I took my daughter to go see the butterfly exhibit in Montreal, and it's beautiful. And I've been many times, but it as soon as I like got there, I couldn't stop sobbing and I was like, kind of like crouched on the ground, like I'm in a crowd and like sobbing. And my daughter was like, Are you okay? You know, and I was like, No, I'm fine. But I was crying at the beauty. Mostly I was crying at the beauty, like I couldn't handle how beautiful the world was. I still feel like that, but it's mellowed out now. And I can like have a regular conversation. Like I couldn't have a regular conversation for like two months after either. Like my friend was telling me that she wanted to design these hoodies and how she was trying to explain how she was gonna do up this project and she was gonna design hoodies and like what did I think about her hoodies and stuff? And I was like, Hoodies? Like, who the fuck cares about hoodies? That's what I said. Know I was just like I couldn't understand why people were talking to me about these things that didn't matter. Like, no, we don't need any more hoodies, you know. Needless to say, she was really pissed. And I love hoodies. I've got a
nancy: No.
Sydney: bunch of hoodies, you know. It's just like I just couldn't have, I just couldn't separate. yeah, I just couldn't be normal. It was very, very hard for me to have like a normal conversation. I felt like I was very different. I was just extremely sensitive and no bullshit and no Nothing superficial.
nancy: That's the exact word that I was thinking. Once you've had an experience like that,
Sydney: Yeah.
nancy: you cannot go back to bullshit superficial conversations. You just can't. And the things
Sydney: No, exactly.
nancy: that used to maybe excite you before or that you were into, at
Sydney: Yeah.
nancy: least from my experience, I have little to zero interest in anymore. Cause I'm like, that is so superficial, and in the grand scheme of things,
Sydney: Yeah.
nancy: is completely meaningless. And
Sydney: Totally.
nancy: So I could totally relate to what you were saying.
Sydney: Yeah, but like I want hoodies for the Sonic Vessel. It came back slowly. You know, I'm I'm able to, you know, I've always never really been able to have like a superficial conversation. You know, all those memes that are going around where it's like, you know, this is why nobody brings me to a party and it's you know it ta someone talking about like quantum physics and like I'm I've already been like that. Like I was already like that. But I also would be around people that would engage with me in that way. You know, like I don't I don't keep many friends surface friends around, you know, so I kind of got away with it. But now I feel more back to normal and so That day meeting Lisa in the restaurant where I had terrible quiche. It spawned the idea that we should create a new way to have an outer body experience in the sense of, you know, let's take what Bob taught us, but also let's take what Yoga Nidra taught us, and let's take all these different, you know, modalities and all of these different ways of reaching this state that exists. They're all repeating essentially the same program. So let's learn from that. Let's change it. Let's create something that's more art based because I was able to have an out-of-body experience when I linked up art and the systems, which we call them the systems. So let's create our own. And Lisa was the ideal person to meet that day because she had also had an out-of-body experience. Hers was less beautiful. she had an out-of-body experience on an operation table while she was giving birth to her second daughter and she literally hovered above her body and she saw like all the past And future operations that were happening. And she it was very, very scary. And she was like ripped out of her body. So it wasn't like the same type of situation. But after she had her out-of-body experience, she was a touring musician. Like she was in like top 40 bands and touring the world as a like a rock musician. And After her out-of-body experience, music kind of just changed for her, and she didn't want to hear all that noise anymore. So she started doing sound healing and and she also has an autistic daughter, and she had to kind of change how. music fit into her life. So instead of it being like, you know, her playing with all these like amazing bands and they are amazing bands, she just wanted to like bring it down and connect more to the earth and to how sound can actually heal us and sound can actually bring us other places. So she was already exploring this world. So when I asked her to do it with me You know, I was like, we can invite this person, we can invite because you know, a lot of my friends would have been interested in this project. And she's like, No, no, no. Let's just do it, me and you, you know. And I was like, Okay. So we it was all very, very natural, you know. We were hanging out the first time we were hanging out, it was so funny. She was doing like the sound bowl on the ground, and we were in this like dingy like jam space because we had nowhere to do it. So she had rented us this dingy jam space and I was like on the ground and like she was trying to like you know induce an out of body experience but I like was so uncomfortable and or like this isn't it you know this isn't it and we were talking and I was I think I was like I really like the word sonic or she said that And then one of us was like, I really like the word vessel. And then it just like it really just it kind of just created itself, essentially. And it took us like a year to put together the first one. And we were trying all these different frequencies because the gateway has they have their proprietary you know, sound system. I the HemiSync. You know, the sinking of the two hemispheres, which is, you know, one tone in one ear, and then one tone slightly different in the other ear. And then your brain perceives the difference. Instead of hearing two tones, it hears one oscillating tone. And so we were trying a whole bunch of different stuff And like, you know, that they were working. There is no like there's no secret, there's no real secret to it, you know, it's just it's a binaural beat that's creating this oscillating tone that's putting you in a trance state. That's all it is. And I was listening one day to a Thomas Campbell interview that was like six hours long, and I was like, okay, guys. you know to last
nancy: Ha ha ha.
Sydney: joking but anyways in that he's actually said the particular tone that they were using and they found it and this was like buried in like five hours of listening to him essentially you know talk about things I had no idea What he was talking about, you know, because he's such a nerd and he goes so deep. And I was like, you know, I was listening to my car and then he said it. He said the number. And I was like, he said it. So I called Lisa. And then we're trying on her, you know, on her synths to get that exact tone. And she's like, I can almost get it. I'm like, it has to be exact, you know. But I realized that I don't think you need that exact tone, but because now we have other ways to get there. So we use other, you know, we use 3D sound. So 3D sound on this amazing new program where we're able to throw my voice around and give it really like this full feeling. It's it Because you can essentially have an out-of-body experience at a live concert. My friend Mike had one while he was playing on stage. He was floating above himself. He was looking down at the stage. It's all about the trance. It's all you can have one with a drum. You can, you don't need that exact tone whatsoever. But this is stuff that you learn as you go, you know. So we started putting this together and I started sending it to our friends and our friends started having like these amazing experiences. And my best friend thought she was remote viewing her husband in his office. And we were like, my God, what have we done? you know. So we just started to get really, really, minute about it. We really started to try to like dissect what was happening and like everything that we put into those transmissions is really thought out. Like we use ASMR, the guy that masters Our transmissions, he's a really great guy. we've included him in doing like the tuning phase, which we wanted like a man's voice in there because we were missing that. So he does that. He also plays the French horn. And when we get into level two, which we're working on right now, we're using a lot of drone instruments to get that same kind of like trance state, he has like a master's in ASMR, which I didn't know was a thing. so we use ASMR, we use you know, all of these new kind of sound technologies with the binary beats. So we also rely heavily on the other senses. Like because I don't visualize and because we want to create something for everybody, we really want people to feel and sense and taste and everything. the you know what we call the never there which you could compare to the energy conversion box for the Monroe but are never there when I summon the never there in my hand I can feel the swirl I can feel the energy there And for me, it works so much better. I'm using it like a vacuum, like shh, I'm just sucking everything up, all of the matter up. So that works better for me, as opposed to putting something in the energy conversion box. So we, you know, we try to put our spin on it so that it works for more people. And I think that we, Are onto something because people are having these amazing out-of-body experiences. They're having these amazing revelations. They are, you know, some people are saying that after one session, they were able to heal their childhood trauma and stuff like that. I'm like, wow, we must be doing something right. So one of the biggest differences I think with ours, and I think that why. It is working for people is that we've taken that classical music spin, that frisson, that electricity in the spine. We've taken that and we've put it in the transmission. And Lisa composes beautiful music at the beginning of every transmission to try to induce this spark, what we call it. And What that does is it does two things at once, is it it really calms your body down and puts your body in a state of relaxation. And I guess it heightens your perception and it heightens your curiosity in a sense. So that spark does two things at once. So that's in the beginning of every transmission. And that is there to kind of propel you into the systems to go forward and to you know, have an adventure, be it an out-of-body experience or, you know, Maybe you work through something, or maybe you receive an answer to something that you were wondering about. So there's a lot of different things that can happen, and you have to be really open-minded because you never know what you're gonna get. Even me, and I do it every day. And I still do the gateway tapes a lot. I do, but I actually prefer doing mine, even though it's my own voice, it's quite meta. I it doesn't bother me and I just find that ours for me particularly work better because I need more help.
nancy: Mm-hmm. I did notice, that, and I've only done the Monroe Meditations, Gateway Meditation, like one time. So I don't have much to, you know, compare it to, I guess. but what I did notice after doing yours, I believe it's been three times because my AirPods would not work last night. I was so mad. I was like, I want to do it again. I noticed that it Basically, because you were talking about like Monroe relying mostly on visualization, where you're evoking lots of different senses. And to your point, the hand, the swirl in the hand.
Sydney: They're
nancy: I a couple of times going into the meditation, I was thinking about all the things that I needed to do the next day.
Sydney: Yeah.
nancy: And then as soon as that came on, it was like a physical, like a kinesthetic, like I could feel it like go and then it was gone. Like the intrusive
Sydney: Yeah.
nancy: thoughts were gone. And then the sensations that are, you know, going through your body. like and then I reached a point of feeling like I was floating and like in space. and I you know, it was like very like a dark, dark, dark blue with like little like glimmers of like, you know, specks of light. And I was like, what is this place? I I'm in outer floating in outer space. I don't know. but I didn't have, you know, I didn't see anything really beyond that. And that's okay for me because I can see very easily. I can just slip into that. also to your point about your husband being like, what do you mean you can't see? Did you ever there are people too that don't have like thoughts that are running through their heads. Like for me, it's an all-day commentary. Like I have a million thoughts going through my head all day long. And I cannot imagine someone it being like dead silence.
Sydney: Yeah, it's really really hard to
nancy: But there are people that are like that. And so, yeah, and then obviously there are people that are just, you know, more visual by nature, people that are more kinesthetic, more auditory, whatever. so I love that your meditations. appeal to
Sydney: Yeah. Yeah.
nancy: everyone in that way. so no one's kind of like left out like, I can't get there. So
Sydney: Totally. I didn't we when we started off doing that, that wasn't really the goal, but we realized that that is the absolute goal. But Lisa, my partner, she's has like Hyper Tasia. Is it hyper? I don't know what it's called. She's the opposite. she's got a movie running through her head, you know, So it's kind of good for everybody. It's not like you need to have a lack to enjoy it, but I think that all of these, you know, sound effects. And stuff like that that we've added to it. Cause that's worth noting as well. Like we, it's not like super cheesy, like when you're listening to a bad podcast where they're telling a story and you hear every little thing, you hear the cup on the table and things like that. And you're like, this is so cheesy. We really try to use them sparingly and like very, you know, where they're very necessary, like the sucking of the never there, like the breathing pattern of the wave shield, all of these things you haven't been there yet, but all of these systems have been, you know, sound designed with that in mind. How can we make it more tactile? Like when we do the wave shield, which is akin to the what do they call it Essentially your protection bubble. Everybody's got a protection bubble. And ours is called the wave shield. And at the end, when the wave shield is complete, after you do your breathing, I ask you to, in your mind, reach out and test its integrity. And at that moment, Lisa puts magic. I don't know, it's hard for me to decipher the instruments, but she puts something that literally goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So you're like, my god, like I am protected, you know, like your whole it's not just in your mind, I am protected. And those sound effects are greatly helpful in that moment, especially for people with aphantasia. So, but now that I'm going into level two, because we're creating level two, and I'm so excited about it because it took me a really long time to know where we were going. with level two because it's so like people people are really counting on us now. You know, it's kind of funny. And people like, when's level two coming out? You know, and there's like pressure and stuff like that. And I'm like, that's why I went to the Cy Games. That's why I went to Lilydale. I went to Lilydale the week before, which is like, I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but Lilydale is a little city or little town in upstate New York, where you have to be a certified medium to live there, to be approved to live there. And they have a place called,
nancy: Wait, what?
Sydney: yeah, I went to the Shannon Taggett Symposium, which is Shannon Taggett's one of my favorite artists. She's a photographer and she takes photos of everything like a cult. So she like takes photos of seances. She takes photos of mediums or like people that are are channeling like all of these amazing things. She's so cool. So she put it on a symposium and I went and I had a bit of a hard time at that one because am psychic. It's it's hard for me to say that now because it's just so Ridiculous, but actually doing these meditations have made me psychic. Absolutely. Like I get messages from everywhere all the time. And I started realizing this. And when I was at Lilydale, the psychic information was too much for me. And there was a place in the forest called Inspiration Stump where Three times a day, I think you would go. And it's like a church service, essentially. You sit on pews in the middle of the forest and there's a stump there. And then medium after medium comes and pulls people out of the audience and is like, your mother says blah, blah, blah, you know. And while I was sitting there and like listening, nobody ever called me the whole time. I went to like four different ones. They just kept on over here, over here, over here. Never once, you know, there was a message for me. But I was getting messages through me. So like one of the mediums would be like, and this person is wearing, you know, running shoes. And in my head, I would hear, no, they're not running shoes, they're dancing shoes. And then the woman, you know, three pews back would be like, no, she was a dancer. And I'd be like, Told you in my head, you know. So like all of the messages were like coming through me. And I was like, I was exhausted. Like I couldn't sleep. I was exhausted. So that was not my particular, you know, conference. But before that, about a month before I went to Contact in the Desert. And I really, really liked that one. So it was Contact in the Desert. And my friends from Contact in the Desert told me, if you want to see the where the real magic is, you've got to go to the Psy games. So that's why I end up going to the Psy games. When I did you try the Edgar Casey psychic test one of the booths?
nancy: I did not. I I went over there to speak to them, but I did not do the the psychic test.
Sydney: Okay, so I did it. and it was out of twenty five and I got twenty one out of twenty five. The woman had never seen anything like that before and she told me that the closest at the convention was ten to me. and when I talk about this, I always say like meditation, you know, gave me these like powers or whatever or or like psychic abilities. And then everyone's always like, You always had them. You always had them. you just woke them up. So whether I always had
nancy: It's true.
Sydney: them, you know, or if I woke it up, I definitely woke it up with meditation because you're opening a channel, right? To wherever, to elsewhere is what I call it. But you you open up a channel and then you're open and you're receiving and it's it's actually a pretty pretty crazy you know place to be I'm not like I have some friends I have a lot of friends actually that are psychic mediums and stuff like that and they're like you can't shut it off and it's like it's just driving them crazy. I don't have that. I had that in Lilydale because there was just too much crazy energy there for me but I I don't have that on like a day-to-day. I'm like not at the grocery store and like I'm getting messages. Like every now and then I'll get one that'll just be like, I think your cat is sick, you know, or something like that, you know. But other than that, it's pretty quiet in here and I apparently I should be really grateful for that because it can be pretty daunting.
nancy: Yeah, for real. I have to say too, out of all the different meditation styles that I've tried, because I've tried so many. I mean, so, so many. This was so cool because it was not a traditional type of meditation at all.
Sydney: Yeah. It's fun.
nancy: There was a like a total hip factor to it. And
Sydney: Yeah.
nancy: then the art that goes along with it is super rad. So it's just like this, I don't know, like hip. form of meditation. I don't know. Like that's the best way that that I can describe it. And I also love the fact that I could do it at home, have that experience, you know, at home, lying down in my bed with my AirPods in. You know, so I could just
Sydney: Yeah. It's cool, right?
nancy: be like, okay, now I'm gonna just drift off to sleep. I mean, I think it's so rad.
Sydney: It's important that it's fun because otherwise it's just you wouldn't be so excited to do it. You know, like we like to call it entertainment. So it's where entertainment meets entrainment. And the regular meditations or the gateway is it's it's like an entrainment, that's what they call it. You're training yourself to do this, but we wanted it to be a lot more fun. We want people to come back and like want to know what the next level is about, and it's gonna be so cool. I'm so excited about it. And we figured out this like system because we're expanding our perception, right? But like we're like, I just couldn't wrap my head around. I'm like, okay, so we're expanding our perception, but like how can we do that through sound? And I came up with this idea, and essentially we are we're going to be hiding my voice. in the 3D space, and you're going to have to expand to find it. And at the same time, the voice is coming towards. So you're literally tricking your brain, just like like telekinesis, just like bending a spoon, just like seeing without your eyes. You're literally tricking yourself to believing that it's true. And through the power of sound and science, we're going to make it feel like your. soul or your energy is expanding much more than your actual body. So that is really, really exciting. And that's what we're working on right now. And it's going to be a trip. It's going to be so cool. And I can't wait to share it with the world.
nancy: I'm excited to check it out. And for people who are listening that want to check out the Sonic Vessel, I'm going to link it in the show notes. is there anything in particular that people should know going into trying the meditation?
Sydney: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. They need earphones or headphones because it really relies on the two ears and the stereo system. So you absolutely need headphones. it's good to be lying down, although if you find yourself really sleepy or if you find yourself like tapping out or you like fall asleep or something, then you're too comfortable. So I think I heard what somebody was saying that they like like to do it lying on the floor, you know, with a pillow. So it's like you're not fully like comfortable in your bed, ready to go to bed, because then you'll miss kind of miss the experience. I've never fallen asleep in a meditation ever in my entire life, but I know that it happens because I love it so much. It's the favorite part of my day. I wouldn't miss it. So I that's never been an issue for me. Being in the dark, you know, is always a thing. I also think if somebody is like nervous to try it, because I know a lot of Our visuals are kind of crazy and we did that for a reason because we want to pique people's interests and it it actually really works, but there's nothing scary to it. It's very chill. It's very like mellow as opposed to some other ones with like the the humming and stuff like that it could feel kind of ominous so i would say that if you are scared don't be scared there's it's like it's like kind of being scared of watching cartoons it's really not scary at all but if you are you know do it when somebody's in the house you know for your first time or something like that if that helps you I'd also say that some people say that meditation is not for them like I can't meditate I hate when people say that. I'm like, everybody can, it's it's like saying I can't close my eyes and lay down. You know, like of course you can. Of course you can. You don't have to empty your brain. I'm meditating sometimes and I'm thinking about my grocery list. You just let it go, you know, and not hold on to it. And even if you do, it doesn't matter. It's like every time you meditate, you get better. Every time you meditate, you get calmer. Every time you meditate with a sonic vessel, you get cooler.
nancy: That's for sure. I can feel it working already.
Sydney: It's just yeah, you just have to get over that idea, like yes, sitting in butterfly position, holding your hands in a, you know, in whatever position that's uncomfortable and sitting on a ground and clearing out your head for 30 minutes is difficult. That's not what we're doing here. We just are asking you to listen. You know, in Bob's famous words, I love how he says that is all you need do, which is not a sentence, but all you need do is listen. That's all you need to do. All you need to do is listen. And I promise you that you are able to do it. And also, I As a person with aphantasia, I am often in the void. You know, it's just blackness. And you know what? I love it. You just live in it. You just, you just, that's what your body needs. That's what your mind needs. Just live in the blackness. The blackness, the void is not something to, you know, it's not wrong. By any means. It's not nothing's happening. You know, some people do DMT and nothing happens and they're disappointed. Well, they weren't ready for it, I would say. So
nancy: Mm, mm-hmm.
Sydney: I would just be super open to it, be comfortable with the void. No matter what you do, there's always going to be that sense of void there. And what you were describing about that the sky getting a little bit blue and then the stars, that's actually my happy place. That's for
nancy: Mm.
Sydney: me, that happens to me as well, that exact same place. And I've read that like the Like yogis and these meditators all over the world say that apparently as you get closer to enlightenment, that sky gets lighter and lighter. So, you know, love that and live in that. If it goes from black to blue, you're cruising. Like you know what I mean, and be happy about that, but then also don't expect it. Every time you try to do anything in meditation, it does the opposite. So don't force it, don't try to see anything, don't try to feel anything, just really, really just accept it for what it is and enjoy the journey. And if you do, then hopefully you will have some experiences that will shed light on your current situation or Maybe if you're lucky like me, you'll have an out-of-body experience that totally changes your world. And that is why Sonic Vessel exists. If we can have even one other person have my experience like I had, and they got to see their dead parents, then it's absolutely worth it. So just hoping that everyone just gives it a shot and stays open-minded.
nancy: Yeah, for sure. And I feel like we are in a place in time where people are very open-minded, more so than I think
Sydney: Ever.
nancy: ever before, which is very, very exciting. Very exciting.
Sydney: Yeah. Yeah.
nancy: Yeah. So one other quick question in case anyone's listening, what are the practical applications for there might be people out there going, well. I don't necessarily want to have an out-of-body experience or my
Sydney: Okay, yeah.
nancy: parents haven't passed or whatever. Like what are the the practical applications outside of what we spoke about
Sydney: Sure. Yeah.
nancy: that would make the sonic vessel great for anyone that's listening?
Sydney: Right. Good question. So for me, it really taps me into my creativity. It really opens up that field. A lot of people say that that they were kind of in a dead zone in their creative life, but that they started doing this and they felt really like connected and so much connected that. You know, they were waking up in the middle of the night to write things down and things like that. It really just opens up that channel. It's really good for relaxation. It's really good for anxiety if you suffer from things like that. people are using it also in collaboration with like ketamine therapy. Or syllabo what how do we say it? psilocybin.
nancy: psilocybum. Full aside been.
Sydney: Yes. therapy. So people are using that along with like all of these different types of therapies that are available now in the United States, I believe, and in Canada as well. So instead of listening to music, they're listening to this and they're having a wonderful experience. So yeah, like anybody that's dealing with like any anxiety, any stress, like these are all just really good things to quiet. the mind and to make you you know kind of feel like you're in control again and it isn't however good for anybody that has like a history of schizophrenia or anything like that there's a disclaimer on my site but along with every other meditation site out there we're not separate from that but it can you know perhaps bring kind of those kind of things to the forefront. So you have to be careful if you do have a history of that or anything like that. But other than that, it's, you know, like my friend JK Ultra. Do you know JK? she said it was like going to an amusement park. She finds that like the sonic vessel is like going to
nancy: Yeah.
Sydney: an amusement park. And I I love that. I think that's really fun because we don't usually identify meditation with anything fun. It's like the lack of, it's like the opposite. It's lack of fun, you know? And we're we're putting the fun back into meditation or into meditation for maybe the first time.
nancy: Yeah, well you've done an extraordinary job. It's so cool. And it has been a pleasure to get to chat with you and learn more about this
Sydney: I guess we
nancy: sonic vessel. And I'm so excited to hear level two or to go to level two, I guess I should say, right?
Sydney: It's so cool. It's so cool. Thank you so much for having me, Nancy.
nancy: Can't wait. Yeah, thank you.
Sydney: Yeah.
nancy: And I especially want to talk about your out-of-body experience. Can we start there? What led to this out-of-body experience? And how did that connect to what you're building with the Sonic Vessel?
Sydney: Thanks, Nancy. So my mom got really sick. It was about two years ago now. And I had to leave my home in Montreal with my daughter and my husband and go to Winnipeg, which is where my family is from and where I grew up in the middle of Canada, and take care of my essentially dying mother. with my sister. And not only did I have to take care of my dying mother, but I also had to take over the family business and run it, which was a hundred-year-old pickle company, and take care of its 30 employees and wake up at the crack of dawn in the middle of nowhere. And you know, run the company whilst trying to sell it because my sisters and I did not want to take it over. I would have taken it over if it was in Montreal because I love the company and it's a great company, but I wasn't about to bring my husband who's from Marseille, France, the south of France, to Winnipeg. It would have just n not worked. So two two different, totally different worlds. So that was really, really, really hard. Like really hard. But I was doing it with my sister Peyton. She lives in Vancouver. And so we kind of met halfway and taking care of my mom and taking care of the pickle company while we were trying to sell it. So my mom wanted to sell it. For many years, but she you know, she would get really annoyed with people when they were like asking questions about the business. She'd be like, That's enough! Like I that's I don't want to talk about it anymore. Like, she didn't ever go through the process, it was too overwhelming for her, and I understand why because she was running the business and trying to sell it, and she was just one person, and it was just too much for her. so You know, she was never able to sell it, but also she was never able to sell it because she just picked a number out of thin air because she saw it on a license plate and that she thought that was how much the company was worth. so she was always trying to get this like magical number that was like preposterous and like out of control because she had put so much love into it and so much. time and energy into it, it was, it became bigger than it was, you know, for her. So as outsiders, coming in, it was easier for us to separate from that and just, you know, be done with it. But needless to say, that was a very long and hard process. I think it was about a year I was coming back and forth, but I was mostly over there and my husband was taking care of our daughter. So it was a very, very trying period. And my mom passed away quite quickly after actually. So it was like I think I was there for maybe six months still taking care of her. And then after she passed, it was just taking care of the business. So It's not also a regular business. It's it's important to say it's an extremely small margin, very High stress also because we're getting our cucumbers from the states and from Mexico. So they have to be refrigerated the whole time because we do what was called fresh packed, which meant that like we were bringing in like refrigerated shipping from Mexico and the states like every week. And we were, I think we were bringing in something like What was I want to get this number right? I think it was a 58, 54 foot truck, which was carrying, you know, like tens of thousands of pounds of pickles every week. Cucumbers, sorry. So we're bringing them in and finding them, and they're they're not the right size. And it was just like is that place was just like a nightmare to run. We got it out at the exact right time though, because that's when Trump put the tariffs on and stuff like that. So that would have like just shrunk our already small margins and it would have been catastrophic. And so I definitely had some angels looking out for us at that moment. We got out right at the right time, but I came home and I was super depressed and while I was out in Winnipeg, I remember One of the nurses was like, well, like we can get you. Do you want to talk to like a therapist? Like, do you need help or whatever? And I was like, Yes, please, like, help. And they're like, you're from Quebec, sorry. Like, you have to be from Manitoba to receive the help or whatever. So it was like there was but because I was between two provinces, there was like no real help for me. And I went into like a super depression. I got home and life continued. Though you know, like you still have a toddler that wants your attention 24 hours a day. You still have to think about groceries and dishes and laundry and stuff, and it was just a lot. So, two of my best friends, one that lives in Italy, an Italian guy, Carlo, and one of my best friends that lives in Montreal, Izzy, they both sent me the gateway tapes around the same time. And I thought that was really weird and interesting. So I started practicing. And I really, really, really loved them a lot. I found them a bit eerie, but I'm not a scaredy cat. So I wasn't like put off by them by a lot of people are. I actually like love Bob so much. Bob Monroe, who was the creator along with Mr. Campbell and the other guy who I always forget his name, but I really, really, really just fell in love with them. And I fell in love with Bob and I consider Bob like I said this to the guys at the Monroe booth. I was like, I feel like he's my grandpa. You know, I never had a relationship with either one of my grandfathers. So I feel like he was like, he's the closest thing to a grandfather that I've ever had. And I really trusted them and I trusted the process. And I was you know, practicing every day, and it was my favorite part of the day. But towards like the middle of the first wave, I started to realize that I couldn't visualize anything. A lot of the you know, a lot of the what does he call them? Their sessions, I don't know what they call them, were heavily dependent on visualizing, like, you know, the energy bar tool and the color breathing and you know, even just the energy conversion box, you know. So I started getting frustrated because I was like, I'm not able to do this properly. This isn't working for me because I can't see anything, I can't visualize anything, and I started to get frustrated and I started to withdraw from the process. And at the same time, I discovered Reddit. Reddit is crazy because everybody's so supportive. I mean, I know there's a lot of people that are like, whatever, not, but like most of the time, people are really supportive, and I think that's really cool. It's kind of like going to a karaoke bar where everyone all of a sudden is your best friend and is supporting you, even though you stink, they're still, you know, there to cheer you on for some reason. So, anyways, I started doing some research and I was asking if anybody had success. with doing the gateway tapes without being able to see an eye in their own mind, in their mind's eye. And I I found out that I had what was called aphentasia. Some people have hyperaphantasia or I don't know, I think it's called hyperaphantasia or hyperphantasia. They they can see like a movie in their head, you know? And I'm like, what? People can see stuff like I thought that when people were counting sheep, that it was not literal. I thought that it was just counting in your mind. I thought that when people said, you know, I and I saw my father in in my mind's eye, that they were lying or that that it was just a figure of speech. I thought everybody was like me, that it was just total blackness, and that anyway, so I started reading that and then I I started reading that. People that have aphantasia that they can still do the gateway process and that they can actually still have an out-of-body experience through it. And that gave me hope. So I was like, okay, so it's still possible. So maybe it's more like a dream because I still dream. I dream every night, every single day I wake up and I have a dream, and most of them are very profound. So A dream state is very comfortable for me. So I know that I'm seeing in my dreams, but why can't I see when I close my eyes? So this started to really like work on my subconscious. And I remember telling my husband, I'm like, can you see your, like, can you see your dad's face in your head? And he was like, yeah. And I was like, what? What what do you mean? And and he was like, well, you can't. And I was like, no, he didn't believe me. And he was like, Are you sure? And I was like, I'm sure. You know, like I could get like a glimpse of my father's mustache, but it's not like even a glimpse. It's more like a feeling or a sense or something, like, or just a knowing. So, anyways, I started to become obsessed with this. And I was realizing that when I was doing the gateway tapes, that I was starting to feel like I was having frisson. And frisson is the French word for like shivers or something. So like when you're listening to music for the first time or at your live concert and you have that like surge of energy up your spine, I realized that that was like the same feeling that I was starting to have. So I started. To go kind of crazy in a sense, where I was like became obsessed. So I was like, how can I amplify this? Because I know it's already happening. What can I do to do that? So I decided to, you know, before I started doing a gateway tape, I would listen to new classical music in the hopes to activate this. Energy and I started to do that. I also started to draw out what an energy conversion box would be to me. So I would start to draw it out, and I would be like, yeah. And then I would imagine that my energy conversion box had a big red button. But most importantly, What I would start to do is I would start to associate a sense to it. So, like the pressing of the big red button, my finger would actually kind of go like this. So I would be, instead of just imagining my energy box, I would have to build it. And how I would build it is I would build it through the previous drawings that I'd had that are glued up to my wall. And also, my mind would start to create sounds associated to it. So, like pressing the big red button, my finger would twitch. But then also I would hear a shh release in my head. Whether I was imagining this sound or if it was happening, it didn't matter. It was just like that. I was starting associating sounds with the particular methods that Bob was talking about. And Also, I was starting to be a lot more like tactile with it. So when he's telling me to put all of my all of matter into this energy conversion box, what I would imagine is I would imagine zipping myself down all the way down and pulling myself up and squiggling out of my meat suit. And I would throw that into the energy conversion box. And what I realized now is all of that stuff is very visceral, very tactile. Like I can hear the zipper in my mind. I can feel what it feels like to peel back, like almost like you're peeling an orange open. Like I I knew what that felt like. So I started associating these feelings with these systems. And When I got really good at that, I realized, well, now I realize this later because this is something that I understood after, but that all of these senses, I was piling them up on top of each other like a screen print. So That first one doesn't really look like anything. So that first one is maybe what does it feel like to touch sand? Okay, so that's something. And then the second one is like, well, what does it feel like to have a light breeze on your face? Okay, that's something. And then slowly, you know, through all the senses, through the sense of my imaginary smell, I don't know what to call that, or You know, all these tactile senses layered one up on top of each other actually creates something in my mind's eye. And I don't like to call it like a vision, it's more like I'm perceiving something. I'm allowed to finally perceive something when all of my other senses line up. So now one day. was about a year ago now, maybe a year and a half. I do my whole process. I do the drawing, I listen to the music, the classical music, I do a gateway tape, and I believe it was on the fifth one, the fifth or sixth one in wave one. And it's just like any other day, but all of a sudden there was no tunnel or there was nothing like that. I was never looked up above my body. Like some people do when they're training to have an outer body experience, they're like, I'm just above my body. I look down, there's my body. now I'm on my roof. Now I'm looking down. That wasn't like that for me at all because what I realized later is that I skipped all I skipped the focus 12, 15, 21, 25. I skipped all of that. And I went straight to 25, which I think is the end, I believe. I went straight to you're going to go visit your dead ancestors. And I went through all of that. And I just without, you know, with just like a snap of a finger, I was over here at my chalet. And I could see 360. So when people say they have an outer body experience and they're saying so often they'll say it's realer than real. I think that's because we're able to see at that moment 360. So I'm not just seeing my peripheral and my vision. I'm actually seeing everything behind me because I have a very strong memory of that, that it was like I was like all seeing, like all the way around. So snap two, I am having an out-of-body experience. I am there. I am like, my God, what the fuck is going on?
nancy: Yeah.
Sydney: It felt like a big wind was on my face and my mom and my dad were there. my dad passed away when I was like twenty-one, I believe. And my mom had just passed away and my dad was further a bit further in the dist he was still there and he was still speaking to me, but my mom was really in the forefront. And part of me wonders if that Depth there has something to do with time and that he's further away from me. And because I just had seen my mom, you know, a few months prior, then maybe she was closer. I don't know. There's something I feel like there might be something there. So, anyways, I'm I just start asking questions because there are many questions to ask, right? so my mom said that she could see my daughter. She could see my daughter growing up. And I was like, well, because we all have this fear, right? Like who's like if people can see us, if they can see us, then they can see us when we're doing things we don't want them to see and that kind of stuff that like you feel like you're not alone. It kind of makes you feel a little bit weird. And she said, I said, Well mom, can you see me whenever you want? And she said, No, honey, it's whenever you want. And that kind of I have All my all my hair is stood up on my on my arms because that moment was really, really meaningful to me. Because it's like you're opening by doing the gateway tapes. I was literally opening up my channel, saying, Hey, I'm here. I want to see you. Or when I screamed out the night before I had my out-of-body experience, I screamed out, I just want to see my mom. You know, or I said no, I said, I just want to talk to my mom. I screamed that out. And I feel like the universe responded to me in that way. So yeah, she said she could see my my daughter. My dad said that he, because he never met my husband. He said that he loved Fab and that and that he's such a nice guy and that he can see what a good guy he is. And my mom said that she sees everything all the good that I'm doing. And she said, Not everybody sees it, but I do. And It was really, really, really profound and I said, But mom, if It just didn't make much sense to me that how if I could see them, how come I couldn't see more? You know, like why is it just limited to them right now? Like, where what am I looking at? Like, where are you? What is this world around you? Like, what does that look like? And my mom kind of like kind of like snapped her fingers or something, and then she showed me it was like, you know. multiple panes of glass and they were all going like behind her and in between every pane of glass, like kind of like a microscope if you're putting a specimen in between it, there was different worlds between each set of panes of glass. So at that moment I'm looking at her and go and it just like spread out and I saw like all of the realms all at once or all of the possibilities all at once or all of the timelines all at once. And I was seeing that on on every different pane of glass there was a different reality. So she's she just said it's this and then I I realized that It's kind of just a perception. It's kind of just of what pane of glass you're on at that moment. And that's why it made me think that my dad was put maybe on a different pane of glass further away. I say pane of glass because it's just it was like like a cross-section of reality, you know. So That was really amazing. and she said, you know, you don't know, but I'm telling you that it's true that we will be together again. And So I can't remember what else happened at that exact moment. I took notes, I came out and I was completely soaked. And in fact, I came out of my outer body experience. I think the meditation must have ended. That's what happened. And I came out of it and I tried to get back in. And I tried to get back in and I realized that that part was more of my imagination. That's when the thing became more like a dream and it didn't feel real really anymore. And because I just wanted to go back and I wanted to be with them again, but I came out and I was completely soaked. The bed was completely soaked. And I realized that I felt that wind on my face, but what that wind really was was tears. I was just like, it was like my whole, I was just my tear ducts were open and I was just soaked, absolutely soaked. The bed was soaked, the pillow was soaked. I had a pillow on my face because at that point I never I didn't have a mask yet. So I had like a pillow on my face that was soaked. And then I like go into the the living room and my husband's there working and he like sees me and he was like, you know, what just happened? And I just, you know, I I told him everything. And he was like, whoa. Okay, like that was really crazy. and then he started phoning his family. And and I was like, okay, hold on, hold on. Let me like, let me like sit in this, you know, for a minute. Like I had no idea what just happened, but I know that I had an out-of-body experience, and I know that the gateway tapes were designed to do that, and I know that it worked. But I also knew that I had to tweak it for it to work for me. So that day I Had a lunch scheduled with my friend Lisa, and I hadn't seen her in months and months. And we are like longtime collaborators. She's an amazing musician. And I would often do the visuals for her shows or for her music videos. we always kind of worked together. We used to work at a bar together. and I had this lunch scheduled with her for like weeks and I was like, well, I still have to go to this lunch. You know, I'm not gonna cancel, even though I was like a I was a mess. I was like a total mess. I recorded my experience directly into my like voice note, and then I transcribed it, and then like I kept it. I'm like, I don't wanna miss or lose any of this. So I decided to go for this lunch, and that's all we talked about because I couldn't, you know, talk about anything else. And I remember I was just like pretty much sobbing the whole time. And Lisa was sobbing and we were sobbing and I was just telling her all about it and it was very, very, very, very real and realer than anything that I've ever experienced. And the moment The moments after that, like up months after that, I'd say maybe a month or two months after that, I was just like completely raw. Like Everything would make me cry. I'd always been like that. My friend, my best friend Ali was like, You've always been like this, but
nancy: Ha ha.
Sydney: but it was different. Like I took my daughter to go see the butterfly exhibit in Montreal, and it's beautiful. And I've been many times, but it as soon as I like got there, I couldn't stop sobbing and I was like, kind of like crouched on the ground, like I'm in a crowd and like sobbing. And my daughter was like, Are you okay? You know, and I was like, No, I'm fine. But I was crying at the beauty. Mostly I was crying at the beauty, like I couldn't handle how beautiful the world was. I still feel like that, but it's mellowed out now. And I can like have a regular conversation. Like I couldn't have a regular conversation for like two months after either. Like my friend was telling me that she wanted to design these hoodies and how she was trying to explain how she was gonna do up this project and she was gonna design hoodies and like what did I think about her hoodies and stuff? And I was like, Hoodies? Like, who the fuck cares about hoodies? That's what I said. Know I was just like I couldn't understand why people were talking to me about these things that didn't matter. Like, no, we don't need any more hoodies, you know. Needless to say, she was really pissed. And I love hoodies. I've got a
nancy: No.
Sydney: bunch of hoodies, you know. It's just like I just couldn't have, I just couldn't separate. yeah, I just couldn't be normal. It was very, very hard for me to have like a normal conversation. I felt like I was very different. I was just extremely sensitive and no bullshit and no Nothing superficial.
nancy: That's the exact word that I was thinking. Once you've had an experience like that,
Sydney: Yeah.
nancy: you cannot go back to bullshit superficial conversations. You just can't. And the things
Sydney: No, exactly.
nancy: that used to maybe excite you before or that you were into, at
Sydney: Yeah.
nancy: least from my experience, I have little to zero interest in anymore. Cause I'm like, that is so superficial, and in the grand scheme of things,
Sydney: Yeah.
nancy: is completely meaningless. And
Sydney: Totally.
nancy: So I could totally relate to what you were saying.
Sydney: Yeah, but like I want hoodies for the Sonic Vessel. It came back slowly. You know, I'm I'm able to, you know, I've always never really been able to have like a superficial conversation. You know, all those memes that are going around where it's like, you know, this is why nobody brings me to a party and it's you know it ta someone talking about like quantum physics and like I'm I've already been like that. Like I was already like that. But I also would be around people that would engage with me in that way. You know, like I don't I don't keep many friends surface friends around, you know, so I kind of got away with it. But now I feel more back to normal and so That day meeting Lisa in the restaurant where I had terrible quiche. It spawned the idea that we should create a new way to have an outer body experience in the sense of, you know, let's take what Bob taught us, but also let's take what Yoga Nidra taught us, and let's take all these different, you know, modalities and all of these different ways of reaching this state that exists. They're all repeating essentially the same program. So let's learn from that. Let's change it. Let's create something that's more art based because I was able to have an out-of-body experience when I linked up art and the systems, which we call them the systems. So let's create our own. And Lisa was the ideal person to meet that day because she had also had an out-of-body experience. Hers was less beautiful. she had an out-of-body experience on an operation table while she was giving birth to her second daughter and she literally hovered above her body and she saw like all the past And future operations that were happening. And she it was very, very scary. And she was like ripped out of her body. So it wasn't like the same type of situation. But after she had her out-of-body experience, she was a touring musician. Like she was in like top 40 bands and touring the world as a like a rock musician. And After her out-of-body experience, music kind of just changed for her, and she didn't want to hear all that noise anymore. So she started doing sound healing and and she also has an autistic daughter, and she had to kind of change how. music fit into her life. So instead of it being like, you know, her playing with all these like amazing bands and they are amazing bands, she just wanted to like bring it down and connect more to the earth and to how sound can actually heal us and sound can actually bring us other places. So she was already exploring this world. So when I asked her to do it with me You know, I was like, we can invite this person, we can invite because you know, a lot of my friends would have been interested in this project. And she's like, No, no, no. Let's just do it, me and you, you know. And I was like, Okay. So we it was all very, very natural, you know. We were hanging out the first time we were hanging out, it was so funny. She was doing like the sound bowl on the ground, and we were in this like dingy like jam space because we had nowhere to do it. So she had rented us this dingy jam space and I was like on the ground and like she was trying to like you know induce an out of body experience but I like was so uncomfortable and or like this isn't it you know this isn't it and we were talking and I was I think I was like I really like the word sonic or she said that And then one of us was like, I really like the word vessel. And then it just like it really just it kind of just created itself, essentially. And it took us like a year to put together the first one. And we were trying all these different frequencies because the gateway has they have their proprietary you know, sound system. I the HemiSync. You know, the sinking of the two hemispheres, which is, you know, one tone in one ear, and then one tone slightly different in the other ear. And then your brain perceives the difference. Instead of hearing two tones, it hears one oscillating tone. And so we were trying a whole bunch of different stuff And like, you know, that they were working. There is no like there's no secret, there's no real secret to it, you know, it's just it's a binaural beat that's creating this oscillating tone that's putting you in a trance state. That's all it is. And I was listening one day to a Thomas Campbell interview that was like six hours long, and I was like, okay, guys. you know to last
nancy: Ha ha ha.
Sydney: joking but anyways in that he's actually said the particular tone that they were using and they found it and this was like buried in like five hours of listening to him essentially you know talk about things I had no idea What he was talking about, you know, because he's such a nerd and he goes so deep. And I was like, you know, I was listening to my car and then he said it. He said the number. And I was like, he said it. So I called Lisa. And then we're trying on her, you know, on her synths to get that exact tone. And she's like, I can almost get it. I'm like, it has to be exact, you know. But I realized that I don't think you need that exact tone, but because now we have other ways to get there. So we use other, you know, we use 3D sound. So 3D sound on this amazing new program where we're able to throw my voice around and give it really like this full feeling. It's it Because you can essentially have an out-of-body experience at a live concert. My friend Mike had one while he was playing on stage. He was floating above himself. He was looking down at the stage. It's all about the trance. It's all you can have one with a drum. You can, you don't need that exact tone whatsoever. But this is stuff that you learn as you go, you know. So we started putting this together and I started sending it to our friends and our friends started having like these amazing experiences. And my best friend thought she was remote viewing her husband in his office. And we were like, my God, what have we done? you know. So we just started to get really, really, minute about it. We really started to try to like dissect what was happening and like everything that we put into those transmissions is really thought out. Like we use ASMR, the guy that masters Our transmissions, he's a really great guy. we've included him in doing like the tuning phase, which we wanted like a man's voice in there because we were missing that. So he does that. He also plays the French horn. And when we get into level two, which we're working on right now, we're using a lot of drone instruments to get that same kind of like trance state, he has like a master's in ASMR, which I didn't know was a thing. so we use ASMR, we use you know, all of these new kind of sound technologies with the binary beats. So we also rely heavily on the other senses. Like because I don't visualize and because we want to create something for everybody, we really want people to feel and sense and taste and everything. the you know what we call the never there which you could compare to the energy conversion box for the Monroe but are never there when I summon the never there in my hand I can feel the swirl I can feel the energy there And for me, it works so much better. I'm using it like a vacuum, like shh, I'm just sucking everything up, all of the matter up. So that works better for me, as opposed to putting something in the energy conversion box. So we, you know, we try to put our spin on it so that it works for more people. And I think that we, Are onto something because people are having these amazing out-of-body experiences. They're having these amazing revelations. They are, you know, some people are saying that after one session, they were able to heal their childhood trauma and stuff like that. I'm like, wow, we must be doing something right. So one of the biggest differences I think with ours, and I think that why. It is working for people is that we've taken that classical music spin, that frisson, that electricity in the spine. We've taken that and we've put it in the transmission. And Lisa composes beautiful music at the beginning of every transmission to try to induce this spark, what we call it. And What that does is it does two things at once, is it it really calms your body down and puts your body in a state of relaxation. And I guess it heightens your perception and it heightens your curiosity in a sense. So that spark does two things at once. So that's in the beginning of every transmission. And that is there to kind of propel you into the systems to go forward and to you know, have an adventure, be it an out-of-body experience or, you know, Maybe you work through something, or maybe you receive an answer to something that you were wondering about. So there's a lot of different things that can happen, and you have to be really open-minded because you never know what you're gonna get. Even me, and I do it every day. And I still do the gateway tapes a lot. I do, but I actually prefer doing mine, even though it's my own voice, it's quite meta. I it doesn't bother me and I just find that ours for me particularly work better because I need more help.
nancy: Mm-hmm. I did notice, that, and I've only done the Monroe Meditations, Gateway Meditation, like one time. So I don't have much to, you know, compare it to, I guess. but what I did notice after doing yours, I believe it's been three times because my AirPods would not work last night. I was so mad. I was like, I want to do it again. I noticed that it Basically, because you were talking about like Monroe relying mostly on visualization, where you're evoking lots of different senses. And to your point, the hand, the swirl in the hand.
Sydney: They're
nancy: I a couple of times going into the meditation, I was thinking about all the things that I needed to do the next day.
Sydney: Yeah.
nancy: And then as soon as that came on, it was like a physical, like a kinesthetic, like I could feel it like go and then it was gone. Like the intrusive
Sydney: Yeah.
nancy: thoughts were gone. And then the sensations that are, you know, going through your body. like and then I reached a point of feeling like I was floating and like in space. and I you know, it was like very like a dark, dark, dark blue with like little like glimmers of like, you know, specks of light. And I was like, what is this place? I I'm in outer floating in outer space. I don't know. but I didn't have, you know, I didn't see anything really beyond that. And that's okay for me because I can see very easily. I can just slip into that. also to your point about your husband being like, what do you mean you can't see? Did you ever there are people too that don't have like thoughts that are running through their heads. Like for me, it's an all-day commentary. Like I have a million thoughts going through my head all day long. And I cannot imagine someone it being like dead silence.
Sydney: Yeah, it's really really hard to
nancy: But there are people that are like that. And so, yeah, and then obviously there are people that are just, you know, more visual by nature, people that are more kinesthetic, more auditory, whatever. so I love that your meditations. appeal to
Sydney: Yeah. Yeah.
nancy: everyone in that way. so no one's kind of like left out like, I can't get there. So
Sydney: Totally. I didn't we when we started off doing that, that wasn't really the goal, but we realized that that is the absolute goal. But Lisa, my partner, she's has like Hyper Tasia. Is it hyper? I don't know what it's called. She's the opposite. she's got a movie running through her head, you know, So it's kind of good for everybody. It's not like you need to have a lack to enjoy it, but I think that all of these, you know, sound effects. And stuff like that that we've added to it. Cause that's worth noting as well. Like we, it's not like super cheesy, like when you're listening to a bad podcast where they're telling a story and you hear every little thing, you hear the cup on the table and things like that. And you're like, this is so cheesy. We really try to use them sparingly and like very, you know, where they're very necessary, like the sucking of the never there, like the breathing pattern of the wave shield, all of these things you haven't been there yet, but all of these systems have been, you know, sound designed with that in mind. How can we make it more tactile? Like when we do the wave shield, which is akin to the what do they call it Essentially your protection bubble. Everybody's got a protection bubble. And ours is called the wave shield. And at the end, when the wave shield is complete, after you do your breathing, I ask you to, in your mind, reach out and test its integrity. And at that moment, Lisa puts magic. I don't know, it's hard for me to decipher the instruments, but she puts something that literally goes, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So you're like, my god, like I am protected, you know, like your whole it's not just in your mind, I am protected. And those sound effects are greatly helpful in that moment, especially for people with aphantasia. So, but now that I'm going into level two, because we're creating level two, and I'm so excited about it because it took me a really long time to know where we were going. with level two because it's so like people people are really counting on us now. You know, it's kind of funny. And people like, when's level two coming out? You know, and there's like pressure and stuff like that. And I'm like, that's why I went to the Cy Games. That's why I went to Lilydale. I went to Lilydale the week before, which is like, I don't know if you've ever heard of it, but Lilydale is a little city or little town in upstate New York, where you have to be a certified medium to live there, to be approved to live there. And they have a place called,
nancy: Wait, what?
Sydney: yeah, I went to the Shannon Taggett Symposium, which is Shannon Taggett's one of my favorite artists. She's a photographer and she takes photos of everything like a cult. So she like takes photos of seances. She takes photos of mediums or like people that are are channeling like all of these amazing things. She's so cool. So she put it on a symposium and I went and I had a bit of a hard time at that one because am psychic. It's it's hard for me to say that now because it's just so Ridiculous, but actually doing these meditations have made me psychic. Absolutely. Like I get messages from everywhere all the time. And I started realizing this. And when I was at Lilydale, the psychic information was too much for me. And there was a place in the forest called Inspiration Stump where Three times a day, I think you would go. And it's like a church service, essentially. You sit on pews in the middle of the forest and there's a stump there. And then medium after medium comes and pulls people out of the audience and is like, your mother says blah, blah, blah, you know. And while I was sitting there and like listening, nobody ever called me the whole time. I went to like four different ones. They just kept on over here, over here, over here. Never once, you know, there was a message for me. But I was getting messages through me. So like one of the mediums would be like, and this person is wearing, you know, running shoes. And in my head, I would hear, no, they're not running shoes, they're dancing shoes. And then the woman, you know, three pews back would be like, no, she was a dancer. And I'd be like, Told you in my head, you know. So like all of the messages were like coming through me. And I was like, I was exhausted. Like I couldn't sleep. I was exhausted. So that was not my particular, you know, conference. But before that, about a month before I went to Contact in the Desert. And I really, really liked that one. So it was Contact in the Desert. And my friends from Contact in the Desert told me, if you want to see the where the real magic is, you've got to go to the Psy games. So that's why I end up going to the Psy games. When I did you try the Edgar Casey psychic test one of the booths?
nancy: I did not. I I went over there to speak to them, but I did not do the the psychic test.
Sydney: Okay, so I did it. and it was out of twenty five and I got twenty one out of twenty five. The woman had never seen anything like that before and she told me that the closest at the convention was ten to me. and when I talk about this, I always say like meditation, you know, gave me these like powers or whatever or or like psychic abilities. And then everyone's always like, You always had them. You always had them. you just woke them up. So whether I always had
nancy: It's true.
Sydney: them, you know, or if I woke it up, I definitely woke it up with meditation because you're opening a channel, right? To wherever, to elsewhere is what I call it. But you you open up a channel and then you're open and you're receiving and it's it's actually a pretty pretty crazy you know place to be I'm not like I have some friends I have a lot of friends actually that are psychic mediums and stuff like that and they're like you can't shut it off and it's like it's just driving them crazy. I don't have that. I had that in Lilydale because there was just too much crazy energy there for me but I I don't have that on like a day-to-day. I'm like not at the grocery store and like I'm getting messages. Like every now and then I'll get one that'll just be like, I think your cat is sick, you know, or something like that, you know. But other than that, it's pretty quiet in here and I apparently I should be really grateful for that because it can be pretty daunting.
nancy: Yeah, for real. I have to say too, out of all the different meditation styles that I've tried, because I've tried so many. I mean, so, so many. This was so cool because it was not a traditional type of meditation at all.
Sydney: Yeah. It's fun.
nancy: There was a like a total hip factor to it. And
Sydney: Yeah.
nancy: then the art that goes along with it is super rad. So it's just like this, I don't know, like hip. form of meditation. I don't know. Like that's the best way that that I can describe it. And I also love the fact that I could do it at home, have that experience, you know, at home, lying down in my bed with my AirPods in. You know, so I could just
Sydney: Yeah. It's cool, right?
nancy: be like, okay, now I'm gonna just drift off to sleep. I mean, I think it's so rad.
Sydney: It's important that it's fun because otherwise it's just you wouldn't be so excited to do it. You know, like we like to call it entertainment. So it's where entertainment meets entrainment. And the regular meditations or the gateway is it's it's like an entrainment, that's what they call it. You're training yourself to do this, but we wanted it to be a lot more fun. We want people to come back and like want to know what the next level is about, and it's gonna be so cool. I'm so excited about it. And we figured out this like system because we're expanding our perception, right? But like we're like, I just couldn't wrap my head around. I'm like, okay, so we're expanding our perception, but like how can we do that through sound? And I came up with this idea, and essentially we are we're going to be hiding my voice. in the 3D space, and you're going to have to expand to find it. And at the same time, the voice is coming towards. So you're literally tricking your brain, just like like telekinesis, just like bending a spoon, just like seeing without your eyes. You're literally tricking yourself to believing that it's true. And through the power of sound and science, we're going to make it feel like your. soul or your energy is expanding much more than your actual body. So that is really, really exciting. And that's what we're working on right now. And it's going to be a trip. It's going to be so cool. And I can't wait to share it with the world.
nancy: I'm excited to check it out. And for people who are listening that want to check out the Sonic Vessel, I'm going to link it in the show notes. is there anything in particular that people should know going into trying the meditation?
Sydney: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. They need earphones or headphones because it really relies on the two ears and the stereo system. So you absolutely need headphones. it's good to be lying down, although if you find yourself really sleepy or if you find yourself like tapping out or you like fall asleep or something, then you're too comfortable. So I think I heard what somebody was saying that they like like to do it lying on the floor, you know, with a pillow. So it's like you're not fully like comfortable in your bed, ready to go to bed, because then you'll miss kind of miss the experience. I've never fallen asleep in a meditation ever in my entire life, but I know that it happens because I love it so much. It's the favorite part of my day. I wouldn't miss it. So I that's never been an issue for me. Being in the dark, you know, is always a thing. I also think if somebody is like nervous to try it, because I know a lot of Our visuals are kind of crazy and we did that for a reason because we want to pique people's interests and it it actually really works, but there's nothing scary to it. It's very chill. It's very like mellow as opposed to some other ones with like the the humming and stuff like that it could feel kind of ominous so i would say that if you are scared don't be scared there's it's like it's like kind of being scared of watching cartoons it's really not scary at all but if you are you know do it when somebody's in the house you know for your first time or something like that if that helps you I'd also say that some people say that meditation is not for them like I can't meditate I hate when people say that. I'm like, everybody can, it's it's like saying I can't close my eyes and lay down. You know, like of course you can. Of course you can. You don't have to empty your brain. I'm meditating sometimes and I'm thinking about my grocery list. You just let it go, you know, and not hold on to it. And even if you do, it doesn't matter. It's like every time you meditate, you get better. Every time you meditate, you get calmer. Every time you meditate with a sonic vessel, you get cooler.
nancy: That's for sure. I can feel it working already.
Sydney: It's just yeah, you just have to get over that idea, like yes, sitting in butterfly position, holding your hands in a, you know, in whatever position that's uncomfortable and sitting on a ground and clearing out your head for 30 minutes is difficult. That's not what we're doing here. We just are asking you to listen. You know, in Bob's famous words, I love how he says that is all you need do, which is not a sentence, but all you need do is listen. That's all you need to do. All you need to do is listen. And I promise you that you are able to do it. And also, I As a person with aphantasia, I am often in the void. You know, it's just blackness. And you know what? I love it. You just live in it. You just, you just, that's what your body needs. That's what your mind needs. Just live in the blackness. The blackness, the void is not something to, you know, it's not wrong. By any means. It's not nothing's happening. You know, some people do DMT and nothing happens and they're disappointed. Well, they weren't ready for it, I would say. So
nancy: Mm, mm-hmm.
Sydney: I would just be super open to it, be comfortable with the void. No matter what you do, there's always going to be that sense of void there. And what you were describing about that the sky getting a little bit blue and then the stars, that's actually my happy place. That's for
nancy: Mm.
Sydney: me, that happens to me as well, that exact same place. And I've read that like the Like yogis and these meditators all over the world say that apparently as you get closer to enlightenment, that sky gets lighter and lighter. So, you know, love that and live in that. If it goes from black to blue, you're cruising. Like you know what I mean, and be happy about that, but then also don't expect it. Every time you try to do anything in meditation, it does the opposite. So don't force it, don't try to see anything, don't try to feel anything, just really, really just accept it for what it is and enjoy the journey. And if you do, then hopefully you will have some experiences that will shed light on your current situation or Maybe if you're lucky like me, you'll have an out-of-body experience that totally changes your world. And that is why Sonic Vessel exists. If we can have even one other person have my experience like I had, and they got to see their dead parents, then it's absolutely worth it. So just hoping that everyone just gives it a shot and stays open-minded.
nancy: Yeah, for sure. And I feel like we are in a place in time where people are very open-minded, more so than I think
Sydney: Ever.
nancy: ever before, which is very, very exciting. Very exciting.
Sydney: Yeah. Yeah.
nancy: Yeah. So one other quick question in case anyone's listening, what are the practical applications for there might be people out there going, well. I don't necessarily want to have an out-of-body experience or my
Sydney: Okay, yeah.
nancy: parents haven't passed or whatever. Like what are the the practical applications outside of what we spoke about
Sydney: Sure. Yeah.
nancy: that would make the sonic vessel great for anyone that's listening?
Sydney: Right. Good question. So for me, it really taps me into my creativity. It really opens up that field. A lot of people say that that they were kind of in a dead zone in their creative life, but that they started doing this and they felt really like connected and so much connected that. You know, they were waking up in the middle of the night to write things down and things like that. It really just opens up that channel. It's really good for relaxation. It's really good for anxiety if you suffer from things like that. people are using it also in collaboration with like ketamine therapy. Or syllabo what how do we say it? psilocybin.
nancy: psilocybum. Full aside been.
Sydney: Yes. therapy. So people are using that along with like all of these different types of therapies that are available now in the United States, I believe, and in Canada as well. So instead of listening to music, they're listening to this and they're having a wonderful experience. So yeah, like anybody that's dealing with like any anxiety, any stress, like these are all just really good things to quiet. the mind and to make you you know kind of feel like you're in control again and it isn't however good for anybody that has like a history of schizophrenia or anything like that there's a disclaimer on my site but along with every other meditation site out there we're not separate from that but it can you know perhaps bring kind of those kind of things to the forefront. So you have to be careful if you do have a history of that or anything like that. But other than that, it's, you know, like my friend JK Ultra. Do you know JK? she said it was like going to an amusement park. She finds that like the sonic vessel is like going to
nancy: Yeah.
Sydney: an amusement park. And I I love that. I think that's really fun because we don't usually identify meditation with anything fun. It's like the lack of, it's like the opposite. It's lack of fun, you know? And we're we're putting the fun back into meditation or into meditation for maybe the first time.
nancy: Yeah, well you've done an extraordinary job. It's so cool. And it has been a pleasure to get to chat with you and learn more about this
Sydney: I guess we
nancy: sonic vessel. And I'm so excited to hear level two or to go to level two, I guess I should say, right?
Sydney: It's so cool. It's so cool. Thank you so much for having me, Nancy.
nancy: Can't wait. Yeah, thank you.
