Everything Has Changed. Nothing Has Changed: 50 Years in Financial Advice

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Hi, and welcome to the Adeptly Podcast.
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At Adepoli, we work alongside advisors and advice firms, providing hands-on, technical, operational, and strategic support to help them deliver good advice and run stronger businesses.
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In this series, we explore the trends, challenges, and questions impacting financial advisors and advice firms across the UK, with practical insight from people working at the heart of the industry.
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Clear thinking, real experience, and honest conversation.
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Let's get into it.
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Hello and welcome to another episode of the Adeptly Podcast.
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Today, Dave and myself are joined by Ian Price to look at how the financial advice industry has changed over the last 50 years and perhaps some of the ways it hasn't.
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Ian has spent almost five decades in financial services, holding a number of senior roles across some of the industry's largest firms with a particular focus on retirement planning.
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He's still very much involved in the industry today, running his own company, speaking at events and working with firms on their growth and development.
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So, Ian, welcome to the podcast.
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Great to be here.
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Great to see both of you as well.
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So, would you like to begin with just giving us a bit of background about Ian and what you've been up to these last 50 years?
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How long have we got right?
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I was driving over here today, and funny enough, yesterday I popped to London.
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Um, as you know, I live in Swindon and I went to Swindon Station.
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And believe it or not, in 1977, I started work above Swindon Station at Hambro Life.
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I can remember it in September.
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I started work in the Executive Retirement Plan Servicing Division.
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Little did I know that 50 years later I'd be still actively involved in the industry in the way that I want to be.
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I'm very clear, I have my own little business, but it's very much a small little business where I consult with a few clients.
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I just reflect on how lucky I've been.
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I've worked in an industry that's been changing.
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I'm sure we're going to talk about that.
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Still changes, but some of the fundamentals are still the same today as they were 50 years ago.
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Um I started, and we were just talking about it before we recorded because we weren't allowed to put that language in.
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I started I started with Hambro Life.
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I started Hambro Life because basically they were taking anybody on, irrespective of their qualifications, which in my case was really important because I had five CSV grade ones.
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One was metalwork.
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So I didn't so from was I equipped to work in financial services?
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No.
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Um, but what I had was an opportunity within financial services to develop my skills and work with some very talented people, both within head office environment, but most importantly, the bit I've always enjoyed is the advisor population.
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And over the last 50 years, I've met some of the industry's top advisors, both in the independent world and for want a better world, the tide world, we can get wrapped up in names, which is too boring.
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But doing that has been just so much fun.
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And by the way, still is with all the change I'm sure we're going to talk about.
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It is still great fun.
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Amazing.
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So um, you yourself, we were talking earlier, took your first pension at 55.
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Yep.
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Um, talk to us a bit about your own retirement journey.
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Uh right.
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This I did a client event not so long ago, and I started the event by saying within five minutes, you're going to hate me.
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That long.
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Thanks.
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This wasn't Dave talking.
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So within five minutes, because I was one of the exceptionally lucky people.
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As you know, I ended up being a pensions marketing director, all those sort of different titles, which end up being totally irrelevant in reality.
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But I started, when I started Hamburg Life, this lovely lady from HR department, I'm not being sexist, she was a lovely lady from H department department, said, Ian, can you sign this piece of paper?
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And like any good 20-year-old, I signed it.
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It was, I've always said, it was the best piece of paper apart from my divorce papers that I have ever signed, okay?
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Because it was a 160th contracted-in, non-contributary final salary scheme.
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I stayed at um Hamburg Lives that became Zurich for 26 and a half years.
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And believe it or not, part of the deal I got was when I was 55, I could take my final salary scheme benefits with no penalty.
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So as you know, I'm approaching 70, so I've now got I've had 15 years of final salary scheme benefits.
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As we all met at St.
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James's Place, St.
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James's Place had a very, very good DC pension scheme.
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So I was getting paid 15% into my DC pension scheme.
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So in reality, I sit here never ever having paid into a UK pension scheme.
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Yeah, I was a pensions marketing director.
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So I'm one of the very lucky baby boomers that are exceptionally lucky.
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But that's why the marketplace is changing so much, because that era has moved and gone.
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You don't see, I don't see many companies nowadays with a contribution rate of 15%.
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Most are playing around the auto-enrollment level plus a beer.
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So my retirement was been great.
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So from 55, and by the way, like any classic fantastic financial advisor, my tax-free cash went to pay for my mortgage, because that's what it did.
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So I bought the house of my dreams knowing that I was going to get the tax-free cash.
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And Dave's been, it's my dream the house of my dreams.
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So for me, having a pension's been great.
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The bit that I was talking to Dave about that I really got wrong was I just focused retirement on money.
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Now I'm at that stage, it isn't.
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And I think this is where good advisors are starting to realise this quantum shift that's happening in the marketplace where people like me or my age group want to do something else.
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We're not just waiting to die.
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If I'm really honest, you know, my dad unfortunately died at 65.
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My mum, who's been in every presentation of my life, lived to 100, literally.
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So I became very quickly that I realized when I had the opportunity to leave SJP, or as Dave would say, you were made redundant, which is absolutely fantastic.
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I realized straight away I didn't want to work for anybody.
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Yeah.
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But I didn't want to not work because my brain wouldn't let me stop.
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And I actually think it's really good to have something to do and work for when you've retired.
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Yeah.
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So I seen this real change in, you know, years ago you took your tax free cash, you bought an annuity, you died.
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Being perfectly blunt.
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I have no intentions of retiring from my little consultancy business.
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But let's be clear, but I haven't got the corporate responsibilities.
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That's a different ball game.
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But for me, that change has been immense and so enjoyable.
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I'm I'm I had a conversation with somebody I know in London recently.
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I would argue I'm more effective now than I've ever been because I haven't got corporate responsibilities.
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I only deal with nice people, and if they want me, they pay for me.
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If they don't want me, they don't get me.
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It's quite blunt, but I quite like that.
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So there's been this real shift around.
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And you talk about that shift in retirement planning from very money focused.
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Do you think advisors are adapting to that change?
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Oh, absolutely.
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I personally think one of the game changers over the last 10 years has been cash flow modelling.
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I cannot understand anybody who's in this industry who isn't using cash flow modelling.
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I think it doesn't matter who you are or what you are, cash flow modelling has been the quantum change.
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For me, cash flow modelling is the plan.
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So you go and see a client, Dave, when do you want to return?
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All those sort of questions you ask.
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So the cash flow becomes the plan.
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The products support that plan.
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So when I started, it was very much rumoured to be product sales, and it was, and we'll come back to that, I'm sure.
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But now you have this real plan.
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And in fairness, I've got a fantastic advisor.
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I might as well mention him because he won't look at this and listen to it.
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So Rob Compton, one of the things he did was come and talk to me about cash flow modelling.
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He reassured me that I'd be okay.
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And guess what?
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I am okay.
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But I think for me, that's the change.
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So I think advisors are really starting to realise that you need to have this plan.
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Because the one thing is certain, we can sit here today.
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I don't know about you guys, the market just I can't believe what the market's doing this year, positively if I'm honest.
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But at some point there'll be a downturn.
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Yeah.
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We know that.
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So the plan is the plan.
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So what it means is maybe next year I'm ahead of that plan, the funding year might be below it.
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But you keep that plan in place.
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So that to me has been the real change.
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And I can't see why any business, doesn't matter what you are, you must get behind cash flow modelling.
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I think it's becomes the most important thing I've seen.
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Do you think when you retired?
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Retired.
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Do you think you knew you were wanting to carry on working?
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Or was there at a period of time where you were assessing options?
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And do you think the cash flow helped you see that you could carry on working if you wanted to, but you didn't need to financially, or did you already reach that kind of emotional decision of no, I want to work regardless because I don't want to retire?
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What do you think came out?
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Bit of both, Dave, to be honest.
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Um, I was very clear, I wasn't expecting to uh be made retired retired, whatever, kicked out.
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Yeah, easier word, kicked out.
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I wasn't expecting it, but straight away I knew that I didn't want to just sit at home.
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I'm not ready to sit at home.
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I am the world's that was a very clear yeah, so that I had to do something.
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And Nicole didn't want you to either.
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Absolutely right.
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She didn't like it.
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I'm out today, Jesus Christ.
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Um but the thing was, I think what it became was very much about um I also wanted to help.
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Okay.
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Uh it there's a there's a bit of me, uh somebody want uh one of my clients said to me, When are you gonna retire?
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Literally, when are you gonna retire?
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Because I'm I hit seven, when are you gonna retire?
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It's quite simple when you decide to stop paying me.
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And I don't want to become a caricature.
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Okay.
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So I'm very clear that I see in some industries, you sometimes see it with footballers go on too long.
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Uh I see it with some of the legend pop stars.
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They're almost being wheeled out to sing, uh and they're becoming a caricature of themselves.
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I will stop when I know.
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Right.
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But at the minute, I love it.
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Uh you know, I I'm with you today, I'm going to do a webinar tonight.
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I was in London yesterday, and tomorrow I'm out for lunch.
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Some weeks I do one day, which is probably one new Dave, actually.
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I I can confirm.
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But to be Don't say that in front of my boss.
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Absolutely right.
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So I think from my perspective, yes, the cash flow really reassured me.
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Yeah.
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And what's ironic is because of the way markets are going, I've I haven't received what you'd call a salary for five and a half years or whatever it is, I'm in a better financial position when I was than when I left SJP because of investments.
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Yeah.
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So it's really interesting dynamic, but I'm passionate if you've got a skill, use it.
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Yeah.
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But also, we were just talking earlier on about wait, you know, waitros, you see the delivery people, they're people who've had a career, want something to do to keep them active, Dave.
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Because I think the worst thing you can do is not be active.
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And somebody gave me a great line which I try and try every day not to agree to.
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Don't let the old man in.
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Yeah.
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Because you can get, you know, if you're not careful, you can sit there because you get older.
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Oh, wish it's happening.
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That is no.
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So for me, it's about making decisions that are right, still adding value.
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And the day I don't add value, I'll stop.
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But the cash flow plan is always in the background.
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So just I know what I can do, when I can do it, and how I can do it.
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And I'm sure we'll talk about it.
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The only thing is legislation's changing some of the issues around it.
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But fundamentally, I really was very quick.
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I wanted to do something, I couldn't sit at home.
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But I've got I've got nothing to do, I don't play golf.
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You know, I'm robbing You haven't got the patience of golf now.
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No, no, I haven't.
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And but I I do other bits and pieces, but it's um as I've always said, people get to retire, oh, it's gonna be great.
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Okay, what do you do in November when's great look like?
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Yeah.
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So as you Dave knows Nicole, Nicole's decided to retire as a teacher.
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So she's now so next week with the first time she hasn't gone back to school for 25 years.
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I think she's beginning to realise, oh, what am I gonna do?
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Yeah, what does the start of September looks different?
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That's why she's doing the first day.
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She's going in with my daughter to her school to help her.
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So even so yeah, but I guess the difference there is she if you follow the same feelings, the feeling of still being able to add value, now it's a want, not a need.
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Yes.
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So she can want to do it, not need to do it.
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Absolutely right.
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She can still add value, and but she could stop the day after if she doesn't enjoy it, doesn't want to do it, and just says, actually, it's not for me after all.
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And also, um, as you know, I deal with a lot of younger advisors, I do a lot of mentoring.
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It's brilliant.
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I get as much out of it as they do.
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Watching somebody come in and write their first million pounds of investments is so rewarding.
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I think sometimes the industry we forget this.
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We all get carried away with such big numbers, but somebody I know is building a business, they might do, let's say, I think one of the people I'm looking at might between two five and six million pounds of new business this year.
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That's phenomenal.
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Yeah, that is really good.
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People have forgotten to recognise that.
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I've never forgotten the role that the advisors have is a very, very hard role.
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It was easy, everybody would do it.
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And they don't, and you guys, I know you guys help a lot of advisors, but watching a new person come in building their business, there's nothing better.
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And I I really, really enjoy that.
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And I think more people should help to do that as well.
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You it's you know, industry means very good to me, don't get me wrong.
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So giving back in some ways, even though I get paid for doing it, but it's so much fun, really is.
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Yeah, and we need to find a way of getting more younger people into the industry as well, don't we?
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Uh totally agree.
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And I think, and also accepting, and I think this is a statement as an old man, yeah, flag it.
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Um, all the people I've ever known who've been successful advising, the one thing they've done is work really, really hard.
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Yeah.
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So I think some people about in today's world they feel very much an entitlement, whereas I'm going, you have to earn that entitlement.
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So you if you, you know, I can remember some of the top people I know around the place, they were on the phones Monday morning, desperately trying to get an appointment.
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Let's not kid ourselves, the industry's a hard industry.
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It is predicated by getting clients.
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Yes.
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And we can all talk about the big, you know, we know some you know some of the top people.
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We knew them 25 years ago where they were scratching around.
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Yeah.
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And I don't mean that disrespectfully, but they had some worth ethic, they kept going, they started to build their business, they started the referrals were good, they started to believe they had the great relationships, they would get more business.
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And so I've seen that happen a lot.
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Yeah.
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And they go above and beyond, don't they?
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Like the amount of calls we get at 9 10 at night just from advisors, just because that's what they're used to.
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If their client contacts them at that time, they're available, they're ready.
00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:33.600
And that's hard to live 24-7, isn't it?
00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:35.679
Because as an advisor, you don't even really get weekends.
00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:36.240
No, do you?
00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:36.639
You don't.
00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:42.240
I think you've got to be aware that um probably with clients, stuff comes into their heads at weird times.
00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:49.840
And sometimes it's on weekends when they're not working, they're sitting there, and sometimes, if I'm really honest, it's a press article going, What does this mean?
00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:52.399
Uh you know, I remember meeting one particular advisor very well.
00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:54.240
He did some work for me on the budget day.
00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:56.480
Uh, we met them at eight o'clock in London.
00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:03.360
I spoke to them at half past nine, they'd just finished at night because it's budget day, and he told me it was a lifestyle business.
00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:06.799
Well, it is, but when it's a lifestyle that needs sorting out, you sort it.
00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:07.039
Yeah.
00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:10.080
So to answer your question, should we have new newer people into the industry?
00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:10.960
Absolutely right.
00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:14.879
I'm great to see some of the younger people coming into the industry is really good.
00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:19.519
And it's probably the biggest issue the industry's got is how do we get newer people in.
00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:19.840
Yes.
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:21.120
Because it's lots of debates.
00:15:21.200 --> 00:15:25.440
How many people we could argue say some some of 30,000, 31,000 people in the industry.
00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:28.399
How many of them are over 60 is quite a high percentage.
00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.440
So they're looking about what do they do, how do they look after the clients.
00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:32.480
So it's it's a biggie.
00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:41.120
In reality, we all know every um provider is trying to crack, you know, be it with the academy of this or the academy of that, they're all trying to do it.
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:49.919
And in terms of we've spoken around cash flow, something you've seen change for the better.
00:15:50.080 --> 00:16:01.519
Is there anything you think in your nearly 50 years in the industry hasn't changed and it hasn't changed for the better rather than something which hasn't changed because it's too hard to do?
00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:02.799
I think that's a really good question.
00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:10.080
I think if you go back um when I started all those years ago, the industry was a different industry.
00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:10.639
Yeah.
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:16.480
Um I don't even remember there's an article many years ago by Ned Caslitt called Polly Put the Kettle On.
00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:23.120
Very interesting article, and I reread it recently, where basically he's saying all the industry is doing is moving money.
00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:23.679
Right.
00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:26.399
When I started, there was no transfer market.
00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:27.039
Yeah.
00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:30.480
It was all about Dave, you need a pension, have a pension.
00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:32.559
You haven't got life cover, have life cover.
00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:36.080
So the market when I started was very much in its infancy.
00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:38.399
It was about getting people to save for retirement.
00:16:38.559 --> 00:16:39.679
Yeah, you needed to build a fund.
00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:42.320
There wasn't money to move, you needed people to build money.
00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:43.200
Absolutely.
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:43.440
Yeah.
00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:47.200
So where I started was very much um product.
00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:49.440
You go and see Dave, hey, it's a bit of a fan packet.
00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:50.559
I'll tell you what, you need to put that in.
00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:52.639
I'm I'm slightly exaggerating to make the point.
00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:56.320
But actually, that started the ball rolling.
00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:56.559
Yeah.
00:16:56.720 --> 00:17:00.480
So I think what you mustn't do is people came holier than thou now.
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:02.559
The industry was different in the 70s.
00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:03.600
Was it right or wrong?
00:17:03.759 --> 00:17:05.279
It was appropriate in the 70s.
00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:07.359
No different to the mobile phone industry.
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:11.599
When I bought my first mobile phone, I it was just it was such a different industry.
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:18.000
But what's changed for the better is definitely people are now far more qualified.
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:23.119
There's more checking of stuff, which we can come back to, I'm sure, at some point.
00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:28.240
The bit that I worry about is the industry has now moved to such an extent.
00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:35.440
If there's only 31,000 people in the industry, my late father-in-law worked for London and Manchester in the industrial branch going around collecting money.
00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:35.680
Right.
00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:37.200
People used to take the mick out of them.
00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:38.400
They did a brilliant job.
00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:45.519
And my nervousness was I sit here looking back over 50 years is the advice gap is getting bigger.
00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:46.640
Not smaller.
00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:48.480
Yeah, so it's getting bigger.
00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:53.440
Um, I watch my eldest daughter is now in the process of moving house.
00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:55.039
It's a nightmare.
00:17:55.279 --> 00:17:57.440
When we got a mortgage, it was a piece of cake.
00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:01.359
Now a mortgage is a pain in the ass, but monthly, I know not elsewhere, arse is okay.
00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:05.119
I've checked, I checked with the woke woke people, and it's all okay.
00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:07.839
But so but do you see what it means?
00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:13.440
So my brother, who's an estate agent for 47 years, would say when he started, he used to move after eight weeks.
00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:15.119
Now four to five months.
00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:15.680
Yeah.
00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:21.200
Because all the legislation is creating more and more hurdles to get to the end result.
00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:27.119
So a great example is um, and I could get really on my hobby horse here, um, money laundering is very interesting.
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:31.119
Because money laundry just goes on and on and on and on.
00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:35.039
So uh Leanne, you know, it it's it's ridiculous.
00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:41.200
And what you've got is so we had it with Nicole's mum and dad when they moved, they were 88 years old.
00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:51.119
We had to take them to a solicitor to swear on FADAD they never had a problem m uh getting into the house over the last 56 years because somebody thought there's something wrong in the lease agreement.
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:52.400
What rubbish?
00:18:52.559 --> 00:19:06.319
So I think the bit that's got in the way, legislation is good, but I believe now legislation's gone far too far from the FCA's point of view that you're creating barriers to entry that I don't think are right.
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:12.240
So some of the products should be far more simpler advice processes than it than it currently is.
00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:19.519
Do you think the barriers are for the client, for improving someone's finances, for the advisor, a bit of all of it?
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:20.799
Like right.
00:19:20.960 --> 00:19:25.519
Um somebody sits up and says, what we need to do is do this just in case.
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:27.680
And the chance of it happen is 91%.
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:30.640
So but that then becomes the rule, Dave.
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:38.480
So in other words, at the end of the day, being perfectly blunt, if you see a client who's let's say 40 and hasn't got a pension, bit of clue, he needs a pension.
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:38.960
Yeah.
00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:41.200
So let's not argue that.
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:44.079
We need but then you can see what they have to do to just right.
00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:45.200
Why doesn't he need this?
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:46.079
Why doesn't he need that?
00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:46.799
What about this?
00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:47.519
What about that?
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:53.119
So I think what's happened, Dave, is they've they've created legislation which is right to protect the consumer.
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:54.240
Absolutely right.
00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:54.480
Yeah.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:20:00.559
I'm not denying that, but actually it's got to the stage now of we had a bit of a laugh beforehand.
00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:07.279
If I give you, if I give a company money, uh they're custodians of, by the way, my money.
00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:09.440
My money, not their money.
00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:12.000
So you've got people who put money into an ICE, they want it back.
00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:15.920
Then you're the thing this partner has to or advice has to do, justify by needs to take the money out the ICE.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:16.880
It's my money.
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:17.200
Yeah.
00:20:17.519 --> 00:20:20.000
So why have I got to create all those rules?
00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:21.440
Because it's my money.
00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:26.640
Um, and I remember I'm not taking the we used to have a bit of a conversation years ago when you had to justify your tax-free cash.
00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:28.880
I've never seen so many boats bought in Birmingham.
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:31.680
I'm taking extreme examples.
00:20:31.839 --> 00:20:38.319
So, what you've got is legislation, which is right to protect consumer, is now almost, I think, beginning to bite back.
00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:43.200
Because you've got so much legislation, I feel really sorry for advisors.
00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:46.720
Because it's not what they know that's relevant, it's what they don't know.
00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:47.359
Or don't know.
00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:50.000
Or what is the now flavour of the month.
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.599
So if you've got protection, you know, I'm a massive fan of protection.
00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.960
You know, at the end of the day, is if you start with financial advice, you should protect your assets.
00:20:57.039 --> 00:20:59.039
You know, it's your income, your health, or whatever.
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:02.720
You take out protection, what you have to do for protection policy is unbelievable.
00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:06.319
All you're trying to do is say, right, if they die, there'll be an amount of money paid to their widow.
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:07.519
It's not complicated.
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:12.160
So I think that's where I think it's got really, you know, don't get me wrong, it was a bit of the Wild West.
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:13.200
Of course it was.
00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:16.160
But that's what you you have to start somewhere in the industry.
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:16.720
Yes.
00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:23.519
So where we people can go back and say, oh, yeah, you know, um, we used to have capital units, you posting days of capital units.
00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:24.880
People should take the mick out of them.
00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:28.559
Okay, but then if you looked at the reduction yield, the reduction yield wasn't bad.
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:30.960
I accept that if you stop the payment, there was an issue.
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:39.359
But some of those policies from way back you guys know are very, very good because actually they reinvested the annual management chances.
00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:44.720
So you've got to be very careful that everything gets missed in the in the round.
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:45.200
Yes.
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:49.839
So my argument would be and I'm sure the FCA look at this and they'll come and talk to me.
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:54.960
Um, has anybody in the FCA actually gone out with an advisor to see what it's really like to sell a protection policy?
00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:57.359
And I think that's when it's really eye opening.
00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:04.880
Yes, that's when you actually sit with An advisor and see something happening, you you just go, where have we gone as an industry?
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:09.200
Oh I absolutely and by the way, uh like I said, I'm all about protection of the consumer.
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:13.119
But when you get to the stage whereby you know we were just talking joking, weren't you?
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:18.319
35 reason why letters, whatever pages the reason why that whoever reads it, nobody.
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:21.200
Well actually teachers do, and I'm married to a teacher because they have to read everything.
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:26.160
But apart from teachers, whoever and I'm not saying that I'm not trying to defend it, I'm just trying to say it's a statement of fact.
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:35.279
Well, that like you said, there's a fine line between when you are trying to use protecting of the consumer, but actually does it create harm for the consumer?
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:39.279
Because now they don't actually understand it anymore, they've just got a longer letter.
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:49.519
They they don't necessarily know what they've got and why it works for them and how they're going to use it, but they've got a lovely long letter that's got lots of text in it that they haven't read, they haven't engaged with because it's a long letter.
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:52.000
So is that actually better?
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:57.839
Or have we ended up with a focus on well, it's fine because we can protect ourselves because it is in that letter?
00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:58.960
I think you're right.
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:02.559
Um perhaps I use an example outside to come back in.
00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:04.000
You're probably too young.
00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:05.200
Well, you're probably too young.
00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:05.839
Oh god.
00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:07.200
That's harsh.
00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:07.680
Harsh.
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:08.640
Robert Maxwell.
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:09.759
We had a lot of problems with Robert Maxwell.
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:10.799
I remember him, yeah, sadly.
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:12.000
So fortunately, you might have a point.
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:13.200
I've watched a film on him.
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:14.799
Yeah, yeah, thank you.
00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:16.960
When you get in your haircut, yeah.
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:18.559
But it's a bit swimmed, didn't you?
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:27.759
Yeah, well, so if you think what happened with final salary schemes on the back of Robert Maxwell, it was horrendous because what you did was protect, which is absolutely right.
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:36.079
I remember seeing an article saying, okay, I know the schemes have come back, they moved away from a lot of equity because they were worried about the downside, not the upside.
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:40.400
So a lot of I see now risk is around managing it.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:44.960
I think if I look at the industry now, a lot of investments become very vanilla.
00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:46.880
So they trade in a corridor.
00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:52.160
We could argue about whichever company will come up with a portfolio that does this.
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:52.559
Yeah.
00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.720
Years ago, you know, we I started in the old pension managed days.
00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:57.519
Do you know what?
00:23:57.599 --> 00:23:59.279
I've got a client that had a pension managed fund.
00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:02.079
The return they got over 30 years was breathtaking.
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:02.640
Why?
00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:03.839
Because they stayed in it.
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:15.440
So what you've got now is a lot of people managing the downside more than the upside, which I understand, but there comes a point whereby at what point does it become so vanilla that it's boring?
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:22.160
So if you go back the old days, and I don't think they'll ever come back to the you know, you used to have fund managers, you knew all the fund managers, those days have gone.
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:24.400
They all work on algorithms, they all have a process.
00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:28.799
You know, we could sit here today and have 20 fund managers come in, what will they tell you?
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:31.359
Now's the time to invest, and our fund's the best fund.
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:34.160
I've summarised all investments, by the way.
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:36.079
It's true though.
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:39.279
But you have you ever seen a fund manager come and say, now's not the time to invest.
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:47.200
And if you look at it, so I've taken if you look at me, I've invested in 2004 when I joined SJP, never done a fund switch.
00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:49.680
We've talked about this before because I've never done a fund switch.
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:50.000
No.
00:24:50.160 --> 00:24:50.400
Why?
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:52.960
Because I've been in long-term investments.
00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:55.440
What happens is noise gets in the way.
00:24:55.680 --> 00:25:00.400
So I think where you're getting now is the businesses um all consumers.
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:05.359
It's a bit like we've had conversations before about why do so many people end up sort of middle for diddle.
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:06.000
Because they do.
00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:06.799
What's your attitude?
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:15.839
So it's sort of about there, and you can argue, you know, all the questions in the world, but you'll get a client that will go, it's a sort, and we know that there's a bell chance, isn't it?
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:17.200
Most of them are going to be in that bell.
00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:26.799
So I think for me, having the the key driver for what's going to be successful and has been successful and will be successful is the relationship the advisor has with the client.
00:25:27.039 --> 00:25:28.799
That has is hasn't changed.
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:35.119
So I know partners from my Hamburg life days who've still got clients from 35 years ago.
00:25:35.599 --> 00:25:40.240
And those clients love that partner or a visor or an IFA.
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:51.440
I used to know there's a living legend, I was very lucky enough to know him and became a bit of a mate of mine called Alan Steele, Alan Steele asset management, an amazing character who actually passed away far too young through COVID.
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:53.759
He was just breathtaking.
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:57.680
He was a breath of air, so technical, but boy was he funny.
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:01.519
And he always used to phone me on the train to take the mick out of me because he knew I couldn't respond.
00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:02.480
But that's what he did.
00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:03.119
I loved it.
00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:06.799
But he also started thinking about he talked about investments like a football team.
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:08.720
You know about a team we were talking about earlier on.
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:11.359
So he'd have, you know, what you need is a goalkeeper.
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:12.480
That's your cash.
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:15.440
And he built up a lovely story around a football team.
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:17.200
I still remember it to this day.
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:22.400
He would be horrified how all the portfolios have sort of become defenders.
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:22.960
Yes.
00:26:23.279 --> 00:26:24.160
Almost, yes.
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:24.400
Yeah.
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:34.240
And if you try, you know, because you guys deal with both Tide agents in IFAs, if they go outside the norm, it's a nightmare.
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:34.720
Yeah.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:42.160
And I think if you look back, I was talking about this, you know, when I was at Hamburg Life, we we were in the broker department, we used to go and fight for business.
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.119
Now all businesses run on some form of platform.
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.160
Doesn't matter if you're you've done a lot of work with IFAs, what have they got?
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:50.079
They've got a platform that's got funds.
00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:54.000
If you go to something like Open Work, well, open work, a platform with funds, St.
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:54.960
James's Place.
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:57.599
But let's not kid ourselves where the market is.
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:00.720
And the best thing the market should do is work as one, not against each other.
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:02.480
That's the thing that I found most depressing.
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:04.319
You know, we should all work as one.
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:06.799
Getting a client to do something is really relevant.
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:16.480
And there's lots of talk about costs and everything, but at the end of the day, you have to be clear that a client needs to take a long-term view on their investments and the relationship they've got with their advisor.
00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:16.960
Yeah.
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:23.680
And I think that's really important because I've looked at some, I'm doing some work with some IFAs, which is absolutely fantastic, great fun at the minute.
00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:29.839
But they've got a platform and they've decided to use, say, Morningstar or whoever, and that's what they're doing.
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:32.319
You try and go off that thing.
00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:37.279
Compliance is like Red Bull, you know, you know, everybody's charging in, you can't do that.
00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:39.039
You're going, but have you met the client?
00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:39.839
Met the client.
00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:45.119
And I think that's the so everything's done almost too process driven, I think, at the minute.
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:48.240
And that's just a put very personal opinion, by the way.
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:59.440
So we've talked there about some of the problems with the industry, but one thing, you know, growing advice gap, aging advisors, process, propositions, compliance.
00:27:59.680 --> 00:28:07.759
But one thing which can be said about the market is there's probably more new entrants at this moment in time than there has been in the 50 years we've been involved.
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:13.599
So against that backdrop of all those problems, why do you think is still an industry so many people are looking to get involved in?
00:28:13.839 --> 00:28:16.720
I think the big thing is you're absolutely right.
00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:21.519
And the years we've I've been around, you know, we've seen people come, people go.
00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:27.599
Hamburg Life is now open work, true potential, intrinsic, quilters, everybody's in there.
00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:34.000
So what you're seeing at the minute, I think, is people I think we're at a crossroads in the industry.
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:36.559
And it's a really difficult crossroads to be.
00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:39.519
Technology is going to drive future businesses.
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:42.400
And by technology, that's about cost savings.
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:48.960
So what you've got is new entrants deciding to come into the market because the market for advice has never been better.
00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:52.000
Can we, you know, I'm not I'm most positive about that.
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:55.039
The market for advice, I want to re-emphasize it, has never been better.
00:28:55.359 --> 00:29:00.480
Years ago, Rob Compton, who looks after me, wouldn't be looking after me because I brought up my tax recash, bought my annuity.
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:02.160
He's now giving me still giving me advice.
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:08.720
So I think the new entrants are looking at the market, going, right, there is so much money out there in the market, which there is, we know there is.
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:13.680
If we come out with a proposition that's right for the it has to start from a client perspective.
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:15.279
I think it has to be client-centric.
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:17.680
Is that proposition going to stack up in the market?
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:18.799
Yes.
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:21.920
Therefore, what they do is come out with a new proposition.
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:23.440
That's what's happening.
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:27.920
So the marketplace is just in another bit of not turmoil is a wrong.
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:29.440
I'd say it's a bit of turbulence going on.
00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:33.279
If you've been on a plane, you know, you get a bit of turbulence, we're in that turbulent market.
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:35.440
What will this mean longer term?
00:29:35.759 --> 00:29:39.359
Longer term, I think everybody, as I say, will have to sharpen their pencils.
00:29:39.599 --> 00:29:45.200
You should never ever um I'm perhaps blunt, which is nasty.
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:49.279
I believe the relationship sits with the partner, it doesn't sit with a provider.
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:53.519
I think too many providers believe that they have the relationship with the clients.
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:58.160
They may have summoned relationship, but the key relationship sits with the advisor.
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:08.000
Keeping the advisors happy, and by that I don't mean throwing money at them, just keeping them up to date with what's going on, understanding where the market's going is important.
00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:11.839
And if you go back, you know, it why did intrinsic start?
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:15.839
Because people came out of Hambro Life, Ally Dumbo, or Zurich, to set up intrinsic.
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:17.599
You go back to our days when we were at St.
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:19.920
James's place, JRA, how'd that happen?
00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:23.359
Mike Wilson decided he wants to create a unique brand in the marketplace.
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:24.079
What does he do?
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:29.359
Create new unique brands in the marketplace, and then basically recruited people from the industry to join.
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:31.279
It's sort of going on again at the minute.
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:37.680
What I would want to say to anybody is you have to be really careful making any decision in the marketplace.
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:44.160
Um, everybody will promise you the world, reality is what does it mean for you, and most importantly, what does it mean for the clients?
00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:54.240
So for me, you've got this turbulent market at the minute, and I find it uh interesting, sometimes I find it fun, and sometimes I find it pretty depressing, if I'm really honest.
00:30:54.480 --> 00:30:59.359
Because my industry starts with, or my start is what is the relationship I've got with that client?
00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:07.440
Too many times we're talking about, oh, how do I sell the clients, or what I think that's uh it doesn't feel at least a little bit of best taste in my mouth.
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:11.519
At the end of the day, you're a business, it's a bit like you guys, your business is your business.
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:13.200
How you sell it is how you sell it.
00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:14.880
It's it's just at a value.
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:23.119
So I think we're at the I do think we're at the crossroads at the minute, and I think that's mainly driven by some serious new entrants in the market that are disruptors.
00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:25.200
Disrupts in the marketplace is good, by the way.
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:35.039
I think that's really good because it means that you have to keep your wits about you and you have to really see to be adding value to the relationship you've got with the client and the advisor.
00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:43.440
Because um, the one thing that hasn't happened in 50 years, I haven't seen anybody create a brand that gets clients direct.
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:46.319
Do you see what there's no product provider in that marketplace?
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:48.240
The interface is still the advisor.
00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:48.720
Yes.
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:57.680
So in reality, if us three and Julie in the background could come up with a stonkingly good idea of getting a product to market where we had no distribution, we'd coin the market.
00:31:57.839 --> 00:31:59.119
I haven't seen anybody do it.
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:04.480
Yes, there's a bit of do it yourself, but there's no one brand that's gone, we are that brand.
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:10.400
Now it may might happen, and I think this is to do with Gen Z and all this stuff I don't really understand, as Dave knows.
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:12.799
Baby booms rock, that's all I need to worry about.
00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:15.920
But it may be there where that's the next thing that comes through.
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:17.359
But I haven't seen that happen.
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:22.960
And that's quite interesting given all the years I've been there, all the talk about it hasn't happened.
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:27.599
It depends on I guess the challenge you've got is some of this is about confidence, isn't it, as well.
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:33.279
So there are many things you can do yourself, and but some people have the confidence to do it themselves.
00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:37.279
Some people will be, even though I can do it myself, doesn't mean I want to.
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:37.599
Yes.
00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:38.720
And that's some of the challenge.
00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:41.119
And then there is And it's getting more and more complex.
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:42.960
Yeah, it is absolutely changing.
00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:46.799
Even you know, we found a way to make cash ourses more complicated.
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:53.680
Yes, you've summed up the biggest I there's a lot of rumours that I made my career out of A Day.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:57.039
And the problem answer is I probably did have one presentation, it was A Day, okay.
00:32:57.200 --> 00:32:58.960
As you guys know, pension simplification.
00:32:59.039 --> 00:33:00.160
What's the one thing it hasn't been?
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:01.440
Simple, yeah.
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:03.039
I've never quite landed.
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:07.039
So I did make a career out of what you know, somebody told me you had one presentation.
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:11.440
I had one presentation, but it was a very good presentation, okay, and I've got very well paid for it.
00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:21.599
So in reality, the biggest issue you've now got is the thing that's had the biggest impact, I think, on the one of the biggest impacts on the industry is legislation and government and not leave it alone.
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:27.039
Now, I would say one of the things that government did well that I was probably a little bit cynical about has been auto-enrollment.
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:28.720
I think that's been a good good success.
00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:31.839
You know, I was a bit more people are saving in a pension now than ever before.
00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:33.839
So it's got to be a massive tick.
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:34.240
Yeah.
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:37.599
But now, can you imagine with some of the pension legislation?
00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:39.359
Somebody talked to me about this the other day.
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:43.519
You've now got pensions that will be potentially you've got IHT to pay.
00:33:43.680 --> 00:33:43.920
Yes.
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:47.119
Uh you're the experts on this, and this is where my eye skinning.
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:51.920
Um, I believe you have to pay your uh IHT within six months of death, okay?
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:53.359
You've got ten pensions.
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:54.079
Good luck.
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:59.119
Some of which are invested in property, which you haven't got as liquid.
00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:06.319
So I think what you're starting to see is, you know, even I will go, well, just pay the tax and have a lump sum.
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:13.920
So I think there's some really so I think government have got a lot to answer for that's positive, but at the minute, huge amount of negativity.
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:17.280
And the trouble is they're changing more frequently than ever before as well.
00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:19.360
So everything changes and changes and changes.
00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:28.559
And that's whereby unfortunately, if you run an existing book, legislation goes back 20, it can impact you 20 or 30 years clients away.
00:34:28.639 --> 00:34:30.400
If you're a new book, it's different.
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:32.480
So that's why I think some new entrants come into the market.
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:33.599
Can be a bit more nimble.
00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:34.800
Agile a foot.
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:35.679
Yes, you're absolutely right.
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.199
It makes it look more simple, but it's absolutely it's not any more simple.
00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:41.840
But but the you go back to the old hosting days.
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:47.519
Um very when we started A-Day, when we started, well I started, didn't I?
00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:56.000
When we did A Day, reality is when we had problem people's problems with lifetime allowance, the vast majority of those people who had problems with lifetime allowance had a D B pension.
00:34:56.239 --> 00:34:56.800
Yes.
00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:00.719
Very rarely was it a DC pension because they never put enough money away to do it.
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:03.679
Yeah, it would have been unusual a fund of that size.
00:35:04.159 --> 00:35:14.159
And even today, I still think that's a little bit, because it's for all we talk about, it is really difficult to say, right, you you know, what as some people say, whatever your age is, divide it by two, that's what you'd be funding your pension.
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:15.039
I've heard that before.
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:17.679
So for me, that's 35% of something that's not gonna happen.
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:18.000
Right.
00:35:18.079 --> 00:35:23.920
So what you've got is you've got all this stuff going on, but there's an awful lot of stuff that is bulk standard.
00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:27.440
You know, they're well under a million pounds, they can take 25% of the fund.
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:27.760
Yes.
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:36.239
You know, I think the argument is, you know, what's probably come back into the argument more now than ever before is annuities and how does annuities sit because the rates are better?
00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:42.960
Do people want, you know, as you get older, I think one of the things the industry has got to face is dealing with older clients.
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:46.000
And I know this and you get vulnerable vulnerable clients.
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:47.920
I don't mean vulnerable, I just mean old.
00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:52.079
Uh so in other words, I think people's attitude to risk changes as you get older.
00:35:52.239 --> 00:35:52.880
How do you manage that?
00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:54.320
But your emotions are different as well.
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:55.599
So you touched on this, didn't you?
00:35:55.760 --> 00:36:04.239
At 70, having retired for the last 15 years, your emotions on your finances, your family, what you want to do are different now than they ever were before.
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:04.960
Oh, absolutely.
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:07.760
That's not a numbers game, that's an emotions game, isn't it?
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:14.880
Most people know that uh I was very lucky enough to know Mike Wilson, he's a bit of a legend of mine, and I I think the industry owes Mike a huge amount.
00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:18.159
He's done more for the industry, I think, than most people.
00:36:18.639 --> 00:36:22.960
People might not like him or what he did, but actually for me, he was the he was the pinnacle of the industry.
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:26.320
And he said something to me once, um, because he used to call me Pricey, which is lovely.
00:36:26.480 --> 00:36:32.960
Pricey said the problem is um we like to give with a warm hand, our parents like to give with a cold hand, and he's absolutely right.
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:38.719
So the generation coming through, I just said, I'm very lucky, I've just been away on holiday, I'm through my daughters out.
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:41.679
We like to experience them joining enjoying the money, yeah.
00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:43.599
And I think that's the biggest thing.
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:48.880
You if you look at I call it BOMA, bank of mum and dad, it's the biggest impact in the industry.
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:53.599
But also, I think that's where great advisors come in in a different guise.
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:56.960
It's not just money, it's managing the emotional side of it.
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:05.760
So, Rob, you know, I was I was away with Rob and I clicked on, looked at a wealth account, and oh so he basically said the holiday's free, and it's not, but you know, with the wealth account out and go up.
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:08.639
So I think that's what's changing in the industry now.
00:37:08.880 --> 00:37:14.480
So older people like me are wanting to enjoy our money with our family, and that's lovely.
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:21.679
But you know, my daughters have seen the bank and mum and dad be it, you know, why did I take my final side of scheme at 55 so I could fund the girls for university?
00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:26.320
Yeah, so they've they've had a lot of bank and mum and dad, so they come out of university with no debt.
00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:27.280
What a lovely thing to do.
00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:29.840
And Nicole and I were reflecting on it, massive tick.
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:34.480
But now, well, in fact, Nicole writes them being there because I don't think she wants to spend three weeks with me.
00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:35.360
I'm really honest.
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:36.480
I don't know why I'm trying to lie.
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:38.400
She just wants to three weeks with me, you should imagine.
00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:44.559
Not good, but watching their reaction is lovely, and I think that's what's changing.
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:51.280
And you get all these you we almost sometimes we get too technical, and all you've got to do is sit down, funny enough, talk to people.
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:52.880
It's the best thing you can ever do.
00:37:53.039 --> 00:37:53.679
What do you want?
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:54.480
How do you want it?
00:37:54.559 --> 00:37:56.320
You know, yeah, how do you feel about it?
00:37:56.480 --> 00:37:59.840
You know, as an advisor, you have to do a huge amount of emotions.
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:04.719
You know, Rob is younger than me, which who isn't, so he's got to deal with us.
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:07.760
At some point, either Nicole and I will be dead, so he has to deal with that.
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:12.159
At some point, Nicole, and both of us will be dead, he'll have to deal with that with the children.
00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:14.239
That's a quite an emotional roller coaster.
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:14.480
Yeah.
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:20.000
And I don't think people understand sometimes being an advisor, you deal with so much emotion.
00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:20.320
Yeah.
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:23.840
It's always people go outside the industry, all your interest is investing money.
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:25.280
No, no, no, that's irrelevant.
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:27.039
That's a consequence of the relationship.
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:37.199
But and it's it's almost so that some of the regulation we've talked around and compliance into drives you away from that emotion if you're an advisor and looking at things.
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:47.039
We we've done a lot of work over the last 12 months with a couple of firms talking around how they're capturing their client data and specifically objectives.
00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:51.199
So, how many letters do you read where client's objective is I want tax efficiency?
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:58.079
How how many clients have ever walked into an advisor and gone, you wouldn't have with Rob, I really want tax efficiency.
00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:02.480
It's it's about I want to enjoy these experiences, I want to fund my kids for the process.
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:04.320
The what, the why, the when, not the product.
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:12.480
The holidays, I want the it's not, and that I think the industry has lost sight of that a bit in the terms of how we try and package everything up.
00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:13.760
It's strange, isn't it?
00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:18.800
Because it has created an environment where the level of detail you need to provide has increased.
00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:24.639
Personally, I'm not sure the quality of the detail has increased, but the amount that you have to put in there has increased.
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:51.920
But like you said, you end up, you can lose that information in those discussions because you're so focused on and and the str the odd thing about that, and when you're talking about it for you, when you're having those conversations about what's important to you, why do you want to do it, what you're trying to deliver, who you're trying to deliver it for, when you have those conversations, the advisor will typically find themselves not having to really convince a client to do something because the thing they've got matches what the client wants.
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:55.920
So you're not then actually doing anything other than playing snap.
00:39:56.079 --> 00:39:58.000
You've said, Yep, here I've got.
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:03.440
So if you cut to basic, I'm just matching what I've got with what you've said you want.
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:14.079
And it's also slightly more than that in terms of that relationship being good and like that from the beginning, means you're more likely to retain the client.
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:21.119
We were talking earlier about some of the case review stuff where if you boiled it all down, it comes from a breakdown of a relationship.
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:21.760
Oh, it's fun.
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:27.840
It it doesn't come because an advisor's done something underhand or purposely incorrect.
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:33.440
It's come down because there's been a breakdown of relationship, and that's when people start picking and pointing and wondering about it.
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:35.840
James, I remember us being involved in a particular client up in London.
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:38.480
I can still remember to stay in Spencer House.
00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:46.880
We knew that we were right, but the communication to the client was wrong, so we did something about it, which is absolutely right.
00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:49.119
I think you're spot on.
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:57.440
The way in which the business is going now is we have to talk about it's an individual relationship, it's not a mass one.
00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:04.159
I can remember I did do a client event, and I can remember I pontificated, I love that word, pontificated, talked to them, question.
00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:05.840
Then I sat down and hosted a table.
00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:08.480
There was a serious amount of clients' money on that table.
00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:09.519
Nice, lovely people.
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:13.280
We spent 20 minutes talking about parking apps because that's what's relevant to them.
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:18.559
Not what's happening in America with the top seven and just the ability to park the car.
00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:18.800
Yes.
00:41:18.960 --> 00:41:22.400
A faff about my permit, pay my phone, what's it ringo?
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:23.920
Which one is it?
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:24.559
Where am I?
00:41:24.639 --> 00:41:25.360
Right, what's the code?
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:26.079
Where's the code?
00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:27.360
Doris, where's the code?
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:28.320
On the site, right?
00:41:28.400 --> 00:41:30.559
I've got to walk to that now to find the code.
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:32.320
Because it's hard, isn't it?
00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:35.760
Like my parents don't park where they have to deal with that.
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:38.639
They will park if it's got a coin machine or they'll be able to do it.
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:39.840
So we had an example.
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:42.079
We went to Bristol with my daughter uh last week.
00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:43.599
We went to a comedy club.
00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:44.079
It's brilliant.
00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:46.719
Went to the same car park, used to be NCP, being taken over.
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:48.159
You had to scan the QR code.
00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:49.760
Thank goodness Jessica was there.
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:51.280
I would never have been able to do it.
00:41:51.440 --> 00:42:01.280
So I think what you've got is you've got people making decisions that all the that no, what you know, most clients, in my experience, are it's the money doing well.
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:01.840
Yes.
00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:04.239
They realise that it's going to go down as well as up.
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:05.039
Absolutely right.
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:06.400
But generally, is it doing that?
00:42:06.559 --> 00:42:08.239
That's what that's going to make me feel good about it.
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:08.960
It's spot on.
00:42:09.039 --> 00:42:09.280
Yeah.
00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:11.599
Um massive changes in the world at the minute.
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:14.320
You know, you guys must have come across people with buy-to-lets at the minute.
00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:18.239
They're having real problems because by to let's really aren't working unless it's in a limited company.
00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:19.519
Um that's not advice, by the way.
00:42:19.599 --> 00:42:20.320
I'm very conscious of that.
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:21.440
There's a generalization.
00:42:21.599 --> 00:42:27.599
And that's so the world's changing, but but underneath that all is people, and people want decisions.
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:32.960
You know, uh I've always said this when you see a client, you've got to find out what's really going on in their world.
00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:38.320
All of us, if us four sat here today, something's going on in our world that's causing us aggro.
00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:45.039
Uh and not aggro, but something so I think from a client perspective some sort of stress, some sort of distraction, something that's affecting.
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:48.480
I've also found out, it's hilarious to watch.
00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:56.480
Some clients get to an age and then they become so tight, it's unbelievable because they can't spend the money.
00:42:56.719 --> 00:42:58.079
And you're going, what's going on here?
00:42:58.559 --> 00:42:59.039
My dad?
00:42:59.199 --> 00:42:59.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:00.559
Oh, yeah.
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:02.559
So do you see what I mean?
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:06.400
So they've almost got so you I think a great advisor can really help them.
00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:08.559
I used to host some client events when I was at St.
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:09.119
James's place.
00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:11.440
I can always remember doing Barbered, the show truck thing.
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:13.039
I mean, it's a fantastic client.
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:16.880
And he said, the best bit of advice my advisor told me last year, I could stop work.
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:17.679
So I did.
00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:20.480
He towed his caravan up behind his Range Rover.
00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:25.599
The last I saw him was comatosed, sitting on a bank, watching the horses having a great time.
00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:28.159
The advisor said, You can retire.
00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:28.559
Yeah.
00:43:28.719 --> 00:43:29.760
That's advice.
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:34.320
And I think we've got to be very careful what advice is and what advice isn't.
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:39.440
And I think some of that is, I think advisors today have to be far more what you guys are talking about.
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:44.800
They have to have the knowledge of the product and have the intellectual intelligence to talk about.
00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:46.159
So, what does it mean for you?
00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:52.719
So and to spot the cues, I think the bit that we see a lot of and talk to advisors a lot about it it's spotting what they're not saying.
00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:54.559
It's spotting what the other person in the room is.
00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:57.199
We're seeing a little trigger, you need to see a bit more.
00:43:57.519 --> 00:43:59.519
Yeah, just that little snippet of
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:03.039
Don't you think that's an indication of the industry we've got to help?
00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:05.199
Um, I'm agree with you.
00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:06.719
Uh Dave's been to my house.
00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:07.760
I'm very lucky enough.
00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:09.280
I quite like a bit of art.
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:12.000
So around my house is a bit of art, nothing expensive, but good fun.
00:44:12.159 --> 00:44:15.199
I wonder how many advisors walk in and go, actually, what's the interested in?
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:18.159
And if you talk to me, oh, I'm really interested in Nicole and the girls.
00:44:18.239 --> 00:44:19.199
I've got I've done everything.
00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:20.559
I've not done if I want to.
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:21.199
I I'm okay.
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:24.239
So watching Nicole and the girls, you've got to have those skills.
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:34.480
So I accept that you've got the academic skills, yes, the personal skills bit of understanding when to push, when to you know, I was talking to somebody else this week about oh, I find it difficult.
00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:40.320
Well, when you see a client, why don't you just say, right, I agree that we now got everything we need for me to proceed to the next level?
00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:41.760
Just ask a question.
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:44.159
She can she couldn't thought of that.
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:44.639
Yeah.
00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:53.039
And it's all it is just so so is there anything else I'm missing, or or you're happy to say that LOAs, which are but then the problem is LOAs get sent out with DocuSign.
00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:55.599
I've got some stuff to do with corporate company and my company kept me.
00:44:55.760 --> 00:44:58.559
I have to wait for the end to come because I can't work out how to do DocuSign properly.
00:44:58.719 --> 00:45:01.840
So if you think I spend a lot of time with Dave and Julio and this time.
00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:05.199
I'd like to say that's wrong.
00:45:06.079 --> 00:45:07.360
Do you see so in some ways?
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:15.760
So what you've got to be careful is you're quite right that there's that the industry's, you know, if you said to me is the industry as good as it's ever been, I think it's the industry's brilliant.
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:17.039
I think advice is needed.
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:24.480
I think what we're seeing is what the value of advice is, i.e., how much that advice is worth on an initial point of view, yeah, and believe it or not, what the ongoing servicing needs to be.
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:26.960
But that ongoing servicing is the word ongoing servicing.
00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:29.599
Doesn't matter who you are or what you are, you've got to deliver that.
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:30.480
And you're quite right.
00:45:30.639 --> 00:45:34.639
That means the client phones you at seven o'clock on a Friday, you speak speak to them.
00:45:34.719 --> 00:45:34.800
Yeah.
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:36.480
Now, some people say that you've got to have divine.
00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:38.480
Okay, you but be very clear.
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:44.239
You know, if a client has entrusted you, because if you think about it logically, it's the most weirdest industry ever.
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:49.760
You come and see me and say, Ian, I'll tell you what, why don't you move, let's say,£200,000 of your pension to me?
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:50.960
Okay, that's a great idea.
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:51.599
What do I get?
00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:52.800
A policy document.
00:45:53.039 --> 00:45:54.000
That's it, isn't it?
00:45:54.159 --> 00:45:55.119
It's all down on trust.
00:45:55.199 --> 00:45:59.360
If you really think about it, if you think of the industry as it I got a bit of paper from Company A.
00:45:59.440 --> 00:45:59.599
Yes.
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:01.679
And now I've got a bit of paper from Company B.
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:02.400
Yes.
00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:04.880
But it's all about that relationship.
00:46:05.039 --> 00:46:05.280
Yeah.
00:46:05.440 --> 00:46:08.800
Because if if you haven't got that relationship, it will not happen.
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:12.719
And so the client, I remember we've seen, we've decided to pay an amount of money.
00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:14.880
There's a chap called Will Altman and myself there.
00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:17.519
That client had quite a lot of money with that with St.
00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:18.559
James Place at the time.
00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:20.000
The client was delighted.
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:28.800
We re- we rebuilt that relationship very quickly because really it was a pro it was a process point.
00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:31.440
We could we knew we had, and he knew we had all the answers.
00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:31.679
Yeah.
00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:33.199
But suddenly the light bulb came on.
00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:35.440
It was not worth arguing with him because it wasn't.
00:46:35.519 --> 00:46:37.039
So I think you're absolutely right.
00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:39.519
So if I said here, right, how's the industry looking?
00:46:39.760 --> 00:46:40.159
Brilliant.
00:46:40.320 --> 00:46:42.079
Yeah, we've got terms going on.
00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:44.480
We've still got clients who need and want advice.
00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:48.960
We've got still got clients who are, you know, trying to build funds up at retirement.
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:52.639
But I think the lots it's lots to navigate for the clients and the advisors.
00:46:53.039 --> 00:47:01.519
The only thing I think, looking back, I think sometimes the industry created too many complex products for a solution.
00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:08.320
I think sometimes we got too clever, and some of the products have ended up to bite the people in the bum, and that should never happen with the consumer.
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:08.559
Yeah.
00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:13.440
And so there were some very sophisticated products that for the vast majority of people we should have left alone.
00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:17.519
And you've seen it with some of these footballers got involved in their film partnerships and all this sort of stuff.
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:18.559
Very clever.
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:20.960
Oh, if you do this and you do this, you borrow.
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:24.000
Actually, the best advice I give to people is keep it simple.
00:47:24.320 --> 00:47:28.239
And I think some people overcomplicated, quite an easy solution.
00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:30.480
It's a bit like you guys are talking about inheritance tax planning.
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:32.159
What's one of the best ways to do spend it?
00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:32.480
Yeah.
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:33.519
Start with okay.
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:40.159
You can you can do trust and you do all that, but the you know, how many people understand it worries me, if I'm really honest.
00:47:40.239 --> 00:47:42.800
So keeping it simple doesn't worry me, it's great business.
00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:45.280
It is well done, Dave.
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:46.880
But but but do you see what I mean?
00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:49.679
So for most people, keeping it simple is the best approach.
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:51.119
Yes, there are sophisticated.
00:47:51.519 --> 00:47:56.320
You know, there's probably a five percent of the market that's really complex, as my you know, I'd probably take a punt at it.
00:47:56.480 --> 00:47:58.559
The vast majority of us, what do we want?
00:47:58.719 --> 00:48:00.320
We want a good retirement.
00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:06.960
I had protection throughout my working life, I had critical illness, Nicole had protection throughout working life, and she had critical illness.
00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:10.960
We were lucky enough to work for providers that protection didn't need it.
00:48:11.039 --> 00:48:11.199
Yeah.
00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:16.880
So we had the very basics of you know the famous financial services house, you build the foundations, you build the wall, you build the roof.
00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:18.400
People can't go wrong with that, Dave.
00:48:18.480 --> 00:48:21.280
I really do think that's keeping it simple is right.
00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:27.119
You've got some so complicated products out there, and they end up they usually end up biting people in the bum.
00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:30.400
And how many times have you guys said if it sounds too good to be true, it is?
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:30.639
Yeah.
00:48:31.280 --> 00:48:34.480
And we years later that was being proved.
00:48:35.039 --> 00:48:38.559
You touched on um value a minute ago.
00:48:40.159 --> 00:48:42.480
Have you ever cared what price you pay?
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:44.960
That's a really good question.
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:46.559
I have an advisor.
00:48:46.960 --> 00:48:47.119
Okay.
00:48:47.599 --> 00:48:50.320
Um people find it amazing that I have an advisor.
00:48:50.480 --> 00:48:55.840
Then I go back, I've got four four five CSE grade ones, and I've got FPC one, two, and three and money laundering.
00:48:56.320 --> 00:48:58.400
Yeah, but your metal working must be pretty handy.
00:49:01.440 --> 00:49:07.679
So I think to me, value is a really indeterminate product to talk about.
00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:10.079
Am I happy with what I'm paying Rob?
00:49:10.239 --> 00:49:10.880
Absolutely.
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:13.920
Absolutely delighted with what I pay Rob.
00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:14.800
Why?
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:16.159
Because I want to do it.
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:19.760
It's a bit like so so to me, people go, oh yeah.
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:23.840
So there's a there is a value to the initial advice and the ongoing advice.
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:28.000
And I think most of it's now most markets work within corridors, I think.
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:28.159
Yeah.
00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:30.400
And you'll always get somebody who said, they're charging too much.
00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:30.960
Okay.
00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:38.400
Um we could go, as you've just delighted and said, we could go for lunch, which I know hasn't been booked, which I'm really upset about, but don't worry about it.
00:49:38.559 --> 00:49:40.559
We could go to lunch from McDonald's.
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:42.880
Or we could go to a top-style restaurant.
00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:44.159
We both get fed.
00:49:44.559 --> 00:49:52.079
So I think it's about do you value that service that you're getting for the results it's going to give you over the medium to long term?
00:49:52.320 --> 00:49:59.199
So to me, it's always quantifying how that relationship works, and is that a value that's appropriate?
00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:00.880
And there's lots of discussions about it.
00:50:00.960 --> 00:50:06.800
You go on sometimes you go on LinkedIn, you can almost want to commit suicide with all people arguing about this and arguing about that.
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:13.519
At the end of the day, the client can agree to yes to that figure or no to that figure.
00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:21.519
It's a bit like I usually And then they can agree and still then be unhappy with it and feel like it's not quite delivering the value they wanted or expected.
00:50:21.920 --> 00:50:22.320
Spot on.
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:25.280
So it's a bit like I um, okay, I'm a fairly relaxed type of person.
00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:27.440
It's a bit like when you see people moan about television programs.
00:50:27.519 --> 00:50:29.840
I've got I've got a button that turns a channel.
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:31.440
Yeah, do you know what?
00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:34.159
And then there's a big red button, I can just turn it off.
00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:38.559
So it's so to me, I think value is perhaps the most interesting thing going forward.
00:50:38.719 --> 00:50:38.960
Yeah.
00:50:39.199 --> 00:50:42.320
I believe the relationship of the long-term value is what it's all about.
00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:46.800
So having so for me as a family, that ongoing relationship is where it's at for me.
00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:47.360
Okay.
00:50:47.519 --> 00:50:53.280
So the initial of building the relationship in to help pay for you know, and we have to be quite clear.
00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:58.800
Uh, we have to be quite uh, I'm gonna use the word ballsy about our industry.
00:50:58.960 --> 00:50:59.280
Okay.
00:50:59.440 --> 00:50:59.920
Right.
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:02.159
We do give a great job.
00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:06.719
Now, people might argue about this point or that point, Joe's about it.
00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:11.360
I I don't like him, but I admire him, is the guy who runs uh Ryanair.
00:51:11.920 --> 00:51:12.159
Okay.
00:51:12.719 --> 00:51:13.360
Yeah, right.
00:51:13.599 --> 00:51:16.000
Why he believes in his product?
00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:20.320
Doesn't he just so he believes in his product to the end degree?
00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:22.000
And I listened to it, uh Michael Leary.
00:51:22.559 --> 00:51:22.880
Yeah, right.
00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:32.320
I listened to him recently uh because I was spending hours on T on Instagram that got lost in for an hour and a half, and he was talking about um So you can't do a QR code, but you're on Instagram.
00:51:33.280 --> 00:51:35.199
I've seen your Because that's just watching stuff.
00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:36.320
It is different, right?
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:39.199
So he was talking about um free Wi-Fi.
00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:39.599
Okay.
00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:45.679
He said, Yeah, I can give free Wi-Fi, except I'd have to put a little dome on top of my planes, that impacts my fuel bill by two percent.
00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:48.960
He spends billions of pounds a year on fuel.
00:51:49.039 --> 00:51:50.000
So he's quite blunt.
00:51:50.079 --> 00:51:52.719
I can't do it because it costs too much money, or I have to pass it on to the consumer.
00:51:52.800 --> 00:51:57.440
He wouldn't give free newspapers because people wouldn't take it off the planes, which means it would cost him more money to clean the planes.
00:51:57.840 --> 00:51:58.719
So I was quite clear.
00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:01.920
He was very so people might I don't want to fly Ryanair.
00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:02.800
Don't fly Ryanair.
00:52:02.960 --> 00:52:06.719
He's got an argument is so I think we have to be very positive about what we do.
00:52:06.880 --> 00:52:09.199
We do a great job for those consumers that we deal with.
00:52:09.280 --> 00:52:09.599
Yeah.
00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:13.760
That you can argue price on any product, any product you can argue.
00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:20.719
What you have to believe is is that a fair price for what I'm getting both now and longer term?
00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:23.920
And that's down to the advisor to articulate that.
00:52:24.079 --> 00:52:27.039
Doesn't matter if you're independent or tied, articulate that.
00:52:27.119 --> 00:52:31.840
You you know, in the marketplace, some people charge an Albi rate, some don't, some take a percentage.
00:52:32.079 --> 00:52:33.599
Everybody's there or thereabouts.
00:52:33.679 --> 00:52:38.400
If you look at it, most of the I used to love reduction in yield because I could understand it.
00:52:38.719 --> 00:52:40.079
Do you know I found reduction yield?
00:52:40.239 --> 00:52:41.039
I think about this the other day.
00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:42.880
Do you remember reduction in yield we used to have, isn't it?
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:44.880
Your reduction yield is about 1.5.
00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:46.000
People could get that.
00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:48.159
We used to describe it, it's a bit like going to a bank.
00:52:48.239 --> 00:52:48.719
What do you mean?
00:52:48.880 --> 00:52:52.000
Well, you get a savings rate and you get a rate for borrowing.
00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:53.519
That's sort of what you're talking about.
00:52:53.599 --> 00:52:53.679
Yeah.
00:52:53.840 --> 00:53:01.840
And I think in some ways, we we should just be quite it's costing you one and a half percent a year to have the product and the advice.
00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:02.239
Yeah.
00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:03.360
What does that mean?
00:53:03.519 --> 00:53:04.159
Be blunt.
00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:08.159
That means you'll lose one and a half percent growth for everything you gain.
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:09.760
Are you happy with it, yes or no?
00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:11.360
If you're not, fine, go somewhere else.
00:53:11.920 --> 00:53:16.880
And I don't mean that arrogantly, but I think you have to be proud of what you do and back it.
00:53:16.960 --> 00:53:21.440
That's why Michael O'Leary, people probably hate him, but he's he's got the answers.
00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:26.079
So when I thought about it, 2% on your fuel bill, I think he was talking about a billion pound fuel bill.
00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:27.119
That's a lot of money.
00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:30.480
I can remember once, I've got so many stories, it'll be here for hours.
00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:33.199
It'd be the longest podcast you've ever seen in history.
00:53:33.599 --> 00:53:39.360
The guy at um they had a lot of feedback at Wagamers about prawns, the number of prawns in one of their dishes.
00:53:39.599 --> 00:53:44.559
So he wanted to increase the number by two, that cost them a quarter million pounds a year.
00:53:45.360 --> 00:53:46.719
That's the sort of thing you've got to get.
00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:54.400
You a business has to make, you know, you're you're because it's easy to think that something small doesn't cost very much, but it's the scale of the small, isn't it?
00:53:54.639 --> 00:53:58.800
And can I just go there's probably a really good point to go back to another area, which I'm not gonna talk to.
00:53:59.599 --> 00:54:00.159
Right.
00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:07.440
Um, I think as an advisor, you've got to realise sometimes it's the small things that really matter to the clients.
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:13.519
So if you start taking things away that you had, clients really get upset about it.
00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:14.000
Yes.
00:54:14.079 --> 00:54:15.440
So they're losing, yes.
00:54:15.679 --> 00:54:16.159
That's how they feel.
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:17.679
So we all do, right?
00:54:18.079 --> 00:54:18.159
Yes.
00:54:18.239 --> 00:54:24.719
So to me, if you've got a proposition, be 100% behind that proposition all the time, be consistent.
00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:27.119
So if client they so it's a consistency.
00:54:27.280 --> 00:54:30.639
So uh Dave Shootby House, there's a place in old town called Deacons.
00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:33.280
Um, I go to Deacons a lot as a jewelers over the years.
00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:33.920
We get Mr.
00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:34.880
Deacon's discount.
00:54:34.960 --> 00:54:36.079
I have no idea what Mr.
00:54:36.159 --> 00:54:37.199
Deacon's discount is.
00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:38.159
But I get something.
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:38.880
But I get something.
00:54:39.199 --> 00:54:39.840
It might be nothing.
00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:40.880
It might be nothing.
00:54:41.039 --> 00:54:42.320
Or they just persuade me.
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:43.360
Really good marketing.
00:54:44.639 --> 00:54:45.119
But Mr.
00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:47.039
Price loves our discount.
00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:48.719
Or they bring up some.
00:54:49.119 --> 00:54:54.880
So I think for me, if you've got a proposition, be it like a great example is an airline.
00:54:55.199 --> 00:54:55.840
Airline.
00:54:56.079 --> 00:54:59.039
Uh forget business class, premium economy, economy.
00:54:59.199 --> 00:55:00.719
You all get there in the same time.
00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:03.039
It's what you get in that experience.
00:55:03.199 --> 00:55:08.880
So if you're lucky enough to fly, we just save some money and we just um went business class to Dubai.
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:10.800
Why do I like going to business class to Dubai?
00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:12.480
They pick me up from a house.
00:55:12.719 --> 00:55:14.320
And Nicole said, You don't pay for it.
00:55:14.480 --> 00:55:15.360
Of course we pay for it.
00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:17.039
But they so but they've got this building.
00:55:17.280 --> 00:55:18.639
We're paying for it within the tickets.
00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:18.880
Yes.
00:55:19.119 --> 00:55:21.280
You haven't got an explicit cost for that list.
00:55:21.599 --> 00:55:21.840
Absolutely.
00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:23.840
And do I you know it's in that cost?
00:55:24.079 --> 00:55:27.920
So I think if you think of airline, what they're doing is they're trying to upscale.
00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:30.320
So you go from economy to premium economy.
00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:32.320
You like premium economy, you then go to business class.
00:55:32.559 --> 00:55:33.599
You get used to the scale up.
00:55:33.760 --> 00:55:36.159
Yeah, you don't want to turn left on the you it's it's all those things.
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:45.039
So I think within you have to have a real strong proposition that really works and delivers because actually you're dealing with a significant amount of money, most of these people.
00:55:45.199 --> 00:55:50.719
You know, you you've got clients who've got what a quarter of a billion pounds of funds of the management, half a billion pounds of funds of the management for clients.
00:55:50.880 --> 00:55:51.840
That is huge.
00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:52.320
Yeah.
00:55:52.800 --> 00:55:56.480
A lot of responsibility, absolutely right, a huge amount of responsibilities.
00:55:57.360 --> 00:56:03.519
Um, going back to what we were saying earlier about new new entrance to the market, buoyant market.
00:56:03.760 --> 00:56:13.199
What we're also seeing, which probably hasn't been so much in certainly my time in the industry, is advisors looking more to move around.
00:56:13.280 --> 00:56:23.679
You can't open up a professional advisor or money marketing article at the moment without such and such firm as leaving this network to go to this um network.
00:56:24.079 --> 00:56:31.920
Um, what do you think those advisors should be considering if they're being tapped up or looking at the wider market and thinking?
00:56:32.960 --> 00:56:34.719
Yes, that would be upset the recruiters out there.
00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:35.599
We're tapping you up.
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:37.840
Um Right, I think we need to go back.
00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:41.039
Um I'm in a lucky position because of where I work.
00:56:41.119 --> 00:56:43.280
So I'm I've described myself a bit like a football agent at the minute.
00:56:43.360 --> 00:56:45.920
So I'm getting some people coming to me and saying, What shall I do?
00:56:46.159 --> 00:56:47.840
I am not recruiting.
00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:49.199
Yeah, I've been very clear.
00:56:49.280 --> 00:56:55.840
That's not in my raison dettra, but I am there to help businesses that I'm working with make decisions that's appropriate for them.
00:56:56.079 --> 00:57:01.519
The key thing has to be what's driven you to make start making this decision.
00:57:01.760 --> 00:57:05.280
And some of it's about the changing marketplace.
00:57:05.599 --> 00:57:11.920
Uh, I think all businesses should look outside to be happy with where they are as well.
00:57:12.079 --> 00:57:12.719
Does it make sense?
00:57:12.880 --> 00:57:14.000
Because the grass isn't always greener.
00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:14.960
Let's be quite clear.
00:57:15.039 --> 00:57:15.199
Yeah.
00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:20.480
So I think for me, if you are at a stage where you want to look outside, what is your driver?
00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:27.679
What is the key driver for you as a businessman or woman to decide you want to move from, say, A to B?
00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:30.880
Because, like we said, all you're really doing is moving platforms.
00:57:30.960 --> 00:57:31.840
Let's be perfectly honest.
00:57:31.920 --> 00:57:33.199
So you're moving platforms.
00:57:33.360 --> 00:57:37.679
Um, to me, I then really go through a due diligence process.
00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:46.880
And that due diligence starts with the whoever you're with at the minute, and do the due diligence on them to then look at the other providers to see if it works.
00:57:47.039 --> 00:57:54.480
You've then got to really, really analyze the new proposition, how it would impact your clients, because that's the starting point.
00:57:54.719 --> 00:57:56.559
Is this right for my clients?
00:57:56.719 --> 00:57:59.360
If it's not right for your clients, don't go.
00:57:59.599 --> 00:58:06.639
But you have to go through a very, very strong due diligence process, understanding the implications to your portfolio.
00:58:06.800 --> 00:58:11.599
Let's say, for instance, you've got a lot of cases that are, for instance, I don't know, bonds.
00:58:11.840 --> 00:58:13.199
You're not going to move bonds.
00:58:13.599 --> 00:58:16.239
So they're going to stay with the host company you're currently with.
00:58:16.400 --> 00:58:27.599
So understand what your client bank's made up of, what the impact is going to be, and really, really analyze the person or the provider you might be going to.
00:58:27.679 --> 00:58:28.480
What are they going to do?
00:58:28.559 --> 00:58:29.280
How are they going to do it?
00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:31.920
What's the future look like in five years' time, etc.
00:58:32.079 --> 00:58:33.599
So it's a real, you're quite right.
00:58:33.679 --> 00:58:37.440
When there's a disruption in the marketplace, people FOMO, they're fear of missing out.
00:58:37.599 --> 00:58:40.079
But be very, very, very careful.
00:58:40.239 --> 00:58:41.760
I'm very clear about this.
00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:46.320
Moving from A to B for some people isn't right.
00:58:46.559 --> 00:58:51.280
For some, given their business mix and what they want to do longer term, it might be right.
00:58:51.440 --> 00:58:55.519
But I think what it will do is, like I said, everybody sharpen their pencils.
00:58:55.760 --> 00:58:58.800
You know, there's a number of calls people are getting, you're seeing it all the time.
00:58:59.039 --> 00:59:00.480
What we mustn't do is lose sight.
00:59:00.639 --> 00:59:08.960
The core market is an advisor going out, finding a client, and giving them good, solid advice both now and in the future.
00:59:09.199 --> 00:59:19.440
And I've never, you know, I remember meeting a client many, many years ago who had one and a half million pounds in his pension fund, which is quite a long time ago.
00:59:20.239 --> 00:59:24.800
One particular person was whinging that with hindsight he could have done this.
00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:28.400
And he said, But you didn't actually sell me the product 15 years ago.
00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:32.320
Hindsight's great, and that's the bit I get grumpy about in the industry.
00:59:32.400 --> 00:59:32.639
Yeah.
00:59:32.800 --> 00:59:36.480
Because actually, the person that starts you on that journey is great.
00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:39.199
I accept that sometimes clients outgrow you.
00:59:39.280 --> 00:59:41.840
And I think that's also a key business decision.
00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:50.559
But there's too much mud throwing about, oh, if only I'd done if only I'd done that, I'd be a multimillionaire because I would have put all my money in that bloody Amazon shares when they started off.
00:59:50.719 --> 00:59:51.039
I didn't.
00:59:51.119 --> 00:59:53.280
You know, a number of people said, Oh, did you know if you did it?
00:59:53.360 --> 00:59:53.840
Yeah, I know.
00:59:54.000 --> 00:59:54.480
We didn't.
00:59:54.559 --> 00:59:54.719
Okay.
00:59:55.039 --> 00:59:56.559
So let's not dwell on that.
00:59:56.639 --> 00:59:59.440
So I think for me, this knocking is not good.
00:59:59.679 --> 01:00:04.960
What it has to be is so is this a right move for our clients and for the business?
01:00:05.280 --> 01:00:07.360
And don't rush.
01:00:07.679 --> 01:00:10.320
Really, you know, cut the ones I've been involved in.
01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:12.639
It's really a long process.
01:00:12.800 --> 01:00:13.599
Think about it.
01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:14.719
What's it gonna be like?
01:00:14.880 --> 01:00:15.760
Is it gonna be easy?
01:00:15.920 --> 01:00:16.960
It's cash flow.
01:00:17.119 --> 01:00:18.800
Oh, there's there's 101 things.
01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:23.119
But the end of the day is as a business person, you've got to look around the market.
01:00:24.320 --> 01:00:26.480
And I think all providers should be aware of that.
01:00:26.559 --> 01:00:31.199
It doesn't matter if you're independently looking at the proposition, tied looking up, you just gotta look at the market.
01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:35.039
If you know if you are a client, right?
01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:37.599
You've got your funds, you've got an advisor.
01:00:38.079 --> 01:00:42.719
Now, this is a slightly unfair question given Rob and your history at SJP.
01:00:43.840 --> 01:00:46.400
But as a client, what would you feel?
01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:48.719
I'd go with wherever Rob went.
01:00:49.039 --> 01:00:49.360
Okay.
01:00:49.760 --> 01:00:55.679
So back to your advisor and me is more important than me and my platform.
01:00:55.840 --> 01:00:56.239
Yes.
01:00:56.480 --> 01:01:01.039
Because if Rob decided for his business that was right for him to leave, you'd follow.
01:01:01.199 --> 01:01:01.679
Yes.
01:01:02.159 --> 01:01:02.559
Very clear.
01:01:02.880 --> 01:01:03.760
Regardless of cost?
01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:07.920
Uh probably because I know because I know what's going on in the market, I know.
01:01:08.079 --> 01:01:08.239
Yeah.
01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:11.440
So at the end of the day is I need to be cost neutral in votes commerce.
01:01:11.519 --> 01:01:12.639
So I wouldn't want to be paying more.
01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:13.119
Yes.
01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:16.320
And I'm not too bothered about paying that much less in reality.
01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:19.760
But what I want is Rob, because he's the one that's the kingpin of our family.
01:01:19.920 --> 01:01:21.199
Because Rob's done the great job.
01:01:21.280 --> 01:01:22.239
He's got the family.
01:01:22.320 --> 01:01:24.079
And you know, I can't emphasize this enough.
01:01:24.159 --> 01:01:29.840
Uh there was a lot of talk a few years ago about um uh what is it, intergenerational planning.
01:01:29.920 --> 01:01:32.800
I think that's a bit of a misnomer in the marketplace, if I'm being honest.
01:01:33.119 --> 01:01:36.559
Because most people, most of my mates, are giving their money now.
01:01:36.800 --> 01:01:37.599
They're helping now.
01:01:37.679 --> 01:01:40.559
So this huge wave that people talk about, I'm not sure.
01:01:40.880 --> 01:01:45.199
The other thing is, you know, I've said to my dog, you know, but that's the cold hand warm hand point, isn't it?
01:01:45.440 --> 01:01:51.039
If you look at if you look at intergen as only cold hands, then I think you've got a point.
01:01:51.199 --> 01:01:55.440
If you look at it as how do I engage with the family, how do I think about it?
01:01:55.760 --> 01:01:56.719
Rob adds his value.
01:01:57.360 --> 01:01:59.760
Yeah, because he talks to the girls, he's got them as clients.
01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:05.280
They know your journey, he knows their journey, he is understanding both generations.
01:02:05.599 --> 01:02:09.119
I'm very clear that for me, it always has been that relationship.
01:02:09.280 --> 01:02:11.199
We were talking about some legends we knew from St.
01:02:11.280 --> 01:02:12.960
James's place before we started.
01:02:13.119 --> 01:02:16.559
We know they were quite difficult people, but they were brilliant in front of their clients.
01:02:16.639 --> 01:02:16.800
Yeah.
01:02:16.960 --> 01:02:17.440
Yeah.
01:02:17.679 --> 01:02:20.159
And their clients would walk through water for them.
01:02:20.239 --> 01:02:20.400
Yeah.
01:02:20.639 --> 01:02:22.960
Because anywhere you go, it doesn't matter.
01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:30.480
Um, and all the client events I've done over the years, and I've done a lot, like you guys have, it starts with, oh, this is my advisor.
01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:34.079
It doesn't matter if it's you know in the independent world, whatever.
01:02:34.159 --> 01:02:36.880
It they always start, oh, if you met Rob, this is my advisor.
01:02:37.119 --> 01:02:39.760
So I think that's important to understand.
01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:40.079
Yeah.
01:02:40.239 --> 01:02:48.800
Now I understand that behind that has to you have to sit a provider that is you know viable, you know, it it's it's got all the qualities that you want.
01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:54.159
For instance, you know, they they they adhere to all the rules and regulations, they've got capital advocacy and all that sort of stuff.
01:02:54.239 --> 01:02:56.960
But the starting point for me always starts there and always will.
01:02:57.039 --> 01:02:58.000
I I I I can't say that's what I'm saying.
01:02:58.159 --> 01:03:01.679
Some clients I don't think Ian's unique in that at all.
01:03:01.840 --> 01:03:08.960
I was talking to a US hedge fund a couple of weeks ago and they were trying to get under the skin of what they call stickiness.
01:03:09.039 --> 01:03:13.760
So are the clients sticky to the network or are they sticky to the advisor?
01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:27.360
And my and my view it is the advisor because that is where if you talk to a lot of people who have a financial advisor who are part of a network, they're not a client of the network.
01:03:27.599 --> 01:03:30.400
I am a client for that advisor.
01:03:30.559 --> 01:03:32.480
Where do they call first the advisor?
01:03:32.639 --> 01:03:34.639
If they've got a problem, who's gonna sort it for them?
01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:35.440
The advisor.
01:03:35.679 --> 01:03:36.960
I'll give you a great example.
01:03:37.119 --> 01:03:39.679
Um uh my mini.
01:03:40.320 --> 01:03:41.360
I use Dick Lovett.
01:03:41.519 --> 01:03:43.280
Dick Lovets are I use, I don't use Mini.
01:03:43.760 --> 01:03:44.719
Yeah, true.
01:03:44.800 --> 01:03:46.079
Yeah, you you own a mini.
01:03:46.239 --> 01:03:46.800
I own a mini.
01:03:46.960 --> 01:03:49.280
You don't buy from Mini, you buy from Dick Lovett's window.
01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:51.599
And they know me quite well, so you know they're fun of me up in it.
01:03:51.760 --> 01:03:52.719
Because you keep swapping your minis.
01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:54.159
Yeah, so I've got four of them.
01:03:54.480 --> 01:03:54.880
Yeah, absolutely.
01:03:55.039 --> 01:03:57.440
But but but but that's why they know you so well.
01:03:57.760 --> 01:03:58.719
That's why they love me.
01:03:59.360 --> 01:04:00.079
Red carpet.
01:04:00.159 --> 01:04:01.119
But I think so.
01:04:01.360 --> 01:04:06.639
To me, I think you you could have loads of people discussing this and getting different answers.
01:04:06.800 --> 01:04:07.119
Yeah.
01:04:07.280 --> 01:04:13.440
The core one I go back to is the client events I've ever done, bit in the Tide World, independent world, it's all about that relationship.
01:04:13.519 --> 01:04:15.280
Why was Alan Steele so brilliant?
01:04:15.360 --> 01:04:18.960
He built a business in Lithgow, which is between Glasgow and Aberdeen.
01:04:19.199 --> 01:04:20.880
He was brilliant with his clients.
01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:26.000
He was absolutely he was I know he was flying down to London to pick up clients.
01:04:26.239 --> 01:04:27.760
Because the Londoners loved him.
01:04:27.840 --> 01:04:31.679
Because he he was blunt and to the point, but he was brilliant.
01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:32.880
Absolutely brilliant.
01:04:32.960 --> 01:04:35.280
And his objective was to make them last within the first 30 seconds.
01:04:35.440 --> 01:04:35.840
He told me that.
01:04:36.079 --> 01:04:39.039
Make the client last within the first 30 seconds, make them at ease.
01:04:39.280 --> 01:04:40.159
Yes, yeah.
01:04:40.480 --> 01:04:46.000
And I think so, brilliant man, br I learnt so much from him, good and bad, you know.
01:04:46.960 --> 01:04:49.280
But it but I think so.
01:04:49.360 --> 01:04:58.320
For me, I don't see that ever changing in this because otherwise, us four will sit there and we'll come up with a proposition that we can go direct to market without need for distribution.
01:04:58.400 --> 01:05:00.960
Because without the need for distribution, your margins increase dramatically.
01:05:01.119 --> 01:05:02.239
Because where does a lot of the cost go?
01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:02.880
The distribution.
01:05:03.280 --> 01:05:03.840
We know that.
01:05:04.000 --> 01:05:12.400
So but that's it's a bit like you know, car companies are sort of trying to do that, but they still need an a put a building or something there for people to go to.
01:05:12.559 --> 01:05:14.639
Because, you know, I could go online, I'm sure.
01:05:14.800 --> 01:05:20.000
You and I could sit there, well, not your computer, your computer, and we could build a mini today and I could get it delivered.
01:05:20.079 --> 01:05:21.519
I can't be oh why would I do that?
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:22.639
I want to come and see Michael.
01:05:22.800 --> 01:05:23.599
Michael's my mate.
01:05:23.679 --> 01:05:29.280
He talks to me about my holidays, he talks to me about the car that's got a dent in it that we've got to get out of all the little things.
01:05:29.360 --> 01:05:30.639
So I'm very clear about that.
01:05:30.800 --> 01:05:37.360
Do you think I mean your relationship with your advisor is not unusual because I've met a lot of advisors, lots of clients that feel the same way.
01:05:37.599 --> 01:05:41.840
What would your advice be to an advisor who doesn't have that sort of relationship with their clients?
01:05:42.159 --> 01:05:42.480
Do it.
01:05:42.639 --> 01:05:44.320
Otherwise you won't have a job.
01:05:44.639 --> 01:05:46.000
But how do you think they do it?
01:05:46.159 --> 01:05:50.000
If they haven't got because you've got a really rich relationship with your advisor, right?
01:05:50.159 --> 01:05:56.639
You trust him, you tell him everything, you tell him the things that matter the most to the decisions he needs to guide you on.
01:05:56.880 --> 01:05:59.039
But not all clients and advisors have that relationship.
01:05:59.119 --> 01:06:08.559
No, what do you Think if you're coaching, you're mentoring a new advisor, how do you tell them that is a priority, but how do you tell them to do it?
01:06:08.960 --> 01:06:09.599
Slowly.
01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:12.880
Because you've got to be very careful.
01:06:13.039 --> 01:06:14.800
Some people find it very easy to do.
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:21.280
So I'm I'm well known for talking lensely very fast, value for money as I always used to say it, um, and all that sort of stuff.
01:06:21.440 --> 01:06:32.239
But the real the reality is I think you go through stages there is a bit you you guys have known, we've met some very wealthy clients who go, I'll tell you what, I'll give them my UISA fund and see how we get on.
01:06:33.199 --> 01:06:33.840
I can get that.
01:06:34.000 --> 01:06:34.480
I can get that.
01:06:34.719 --> 01:06:36.000
Why would you suddenly give a million pounds?
01:06:36.079 --> 01:06:37.280
I'll do an example, stupidly.
01:06:37.519 --> 01:06:38.159
I don't know ya.
01:06:38.480 --> 01:06:39.039
I'll test.
01:06:39.360 --> 01:06:39.599
Yes.
01:06:39.679 --> 01:06:39.840
Yeah.
01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:46.000
So I think for me, it's about doing the things I I this is this is an old man comment.
01:06:46.159 --> 01:06:48.400
I've heard so many people saying you need to be authentic.
01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:49.519
They're always the people who aren't.
01:06:49.679 --> 01:06:51.599
If you're authentic, you don't need to say, okay.
01:06:51.679 --> 01:06:52.880
I'm quite clear about that.
01:06:53.039 --> 01:06:54.320
I've spent hours with these people.
01:06:54.400 --> 01:06:55.440
Oh, we must be authentic.
01:06:55.599 --> 01:06:55.920
Why?
01:06:56.000 --> 01:06:56.320
We are.
01:06:56.480 --> 01:06:58.639
So the thing is, you have to be yourself.
01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:02.719
You know, if we look at all the advisors we know, they're all different.
01:07:03.519 --> 01:07:06.320
And you sit there going, How can that person be successful?
01:07:06.480 --> 01:07:07.280
But they are.
01:07:07.760 --> 01:07:11.440
So they find their uniqueness in the way that they deal with the client.
01:07:11.599 --> 01:07:11.679
Yeah.
01:07:11.840 --> 01:07:15.280
We had a particular guy who was brilliant at dealing with pilots, for instance.
01:07:15.519 --> 01:07:17.920
He was absolutely superb at that because he got them.
01:07:18.320 --> 01:07:19.760
So he got on their wavelength.
01:07:19.920 --> 01:07:22.639
So I think it's about just starting to think.
01:07:22.960 --> 01:07:29.119
I always when I present, when I presented, not present, I always used to put myself in the place of the audience.
01:07:29.360 --> 01:07:30.960
What would they want to hear?
01:07:31.199 --> 01:07:41.199
And how many times have you been to presentations where somebody's got right, I'm not going to talk to you about, or and 240 slides later, you're going, Oh my god, I'm asleep.
01:07:41.920 --> 01:07:44.559
But so I always try and say, work out with clients.
01:07:44.639 --> 01:07:45.920
You know, some clients are really difficult.
01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:48.480
You know, I remember going to the city to meet one client with a partner.
01:07:48.639 --> 01:07:50.400
He said, You've got 20 minutes.
01:07:51.280 --> 01:07:52.320
Okay, fine.
01:07:52.719 --> 01:07:55.920
So you've got to accept, you you've got to become a bit of a chameleon.
01:07:56.079 --> 01:07:58.079
You've got to know when to get, you know.
01:07:58.239 --> 01:08:08.559
I remember a living legend up in Yorkshire took me out to see a client and I up in Yorkshire, and I worked out pretty quickly the only way I was going to get out of that client is if I saw as much as he did.
01:08:08.880 --> 01:08:09.360
Really?
01:08:09.679 --> 01:08:10.079
Yeah.
01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:17.359
I remember being taken to an so many stories, being taken to see the top onion presuition from Morrison's down in Thetford.
01:08:17.680 --> 01:08:19.680
I arrive suited and booted.
01:08:20.000 --> 01:08:25.439
Not like Worlds of Gummage you had last time, Andrew Stokes, who obviously didn't find out what an iron is, but never mind.
01:08:25.600 --> 01:08:29.840
So I turned up down in Thetford and I go meet these farmers.
01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:35.279
They all arrive on quarter of a million pound tractors and t-shirts and they rip the what out of me.
01:08:35.359 --> 01:08:36.159
And rightly so.
01:08:36.319 --> 01:08:37.439
I can handle myself.
01:08:37.600 --> 01:08:39.600
So what you've got to be is appropriate.
01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:40.560
Does it make sense?
01:08:40.800 --> 01:08:44.880
If I'm doing a presentation, I used to be suited and booted.
01:08:44.960 --> 01:08:45.119
Why?
01:08:45.199 --> 01:08:45.920
That's my armory.
01:08:46.159 --> 01:08:46.399
Yeah.
01:08:46.479 --> 01:08:46.640
Yeah.
01:08:46.800 --> 01:08:48.800
So I think you have to be appropriate.
01:08:49.039 --> 01:08:55.199
And I think the good advisors know when they're very early on in a client relationship if it isn't appropriate.
01:08:55.279 --> 01:08:56.800
Like they can't be that chameleon.
01:08:56.960 --> 01:08:58.079
They can't adapt to them.
01:08:58.399 --> 01:09:04.319
And I think that's a skill as well, which especially at the start, you can just hoover up wherever you can get, actually.
01:09:04.399 --> 01:09:07.840
But there's a skill in saying we're not going to work well together.
01:09:08.079 --> 01:09:09.920
Do you I think that's when you're successful?
01:09:10.079 --> 01:09:12.880
When you can make that decision, you're absolutely right.
01:09:13.119 --> 01:09:15.600
There are people that will you cannot retro.
01:09:15.840 --> 01:09:17.199
I remember I've got so many stories.
01:09:17.279 --> 01:09:25.279
There's a guy Amber Life, he met a quite famous pop star and realised quite quickly he wasn't going to get on with him, walked away.
01:09:25.680 --> 01:09:26.319
Do you know what?
01:09:26.479 --> 01:09:26.960
Right decision.
01:09:27.119 --> 01:09:30.720
How many times have you heard a partner say, I should never have taken that client on?
01:09:30.960 --> 01:09:31.279
Yeah.
01:09:31.760 --> 01:09:34.239
Or the opening is this is a really difficult client.
01:09:34.399 --> 01:09:34.560
Yes.
01:09:34.720 --> 01:09:35.760
Why are they a difficult client?
01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:43.760
Because actually, I think a client relationship is much the client interviewing you to decide, can we work together?
01:09:43.920 --> 01:09:44.239
Yeah.
01:09:44.479 --> 01:09:46.479
And I think that's what I'd always say.
01:09:46.560 --> 01:09:48.000
It's a two-way communication.
01:09:48.159 --> 01:09:48.399
Yeah.
01:09:48.560 --> 01:09:50.560
Don't just that's like give it time to develop.
01:09:50.640 --> 01:09:51.359
Don't try and force.
01:09:51.760 --> 01:09:53.680
That's what I say with that lady I was from entering.
01:09:54.159 --> 01:09:55.119
Right, we've covered everything.
01:09:55.199 --> 01:09:57.439
Is there anything else I need to cover before we move to the next level?
01:09:57.600 --> 01:09:58.079
Be honest.
01:09:58.239 --> 01:10:01.039
And if by the way, if the client doesn't want to deal with you, don't worry.
01:10:01.359 --> 01:10:02.479
Yeah, don't take it personal.
01:10:02.880 --> 01:10:03.520
We all do, by the way.
01:10:04.159 --> 01:10:04.479
But you will.
01:10:04.800 --> 01:10:06.800
Yeah, but yeah, but from that point of view, absolutely right.
01:10:06.960 --> 01:10:07.199
Yeah.
01:10:07.520 --> 01:10:17.199
Um, with with all these new entrants and consolidators entering the market, do you think it's improving it or just reshaping it for the same thing with some different names?
01:10:17.520 --> 01:10:19.520
I think it starts with probably put the cattle on with neck castle it.
01:10:19.680 --> 01:10:20.239
Yes.
01:10:21.520 --> 01:10:21.760
Still there.
01:10:21.920 --> 01:10:22.159
Yeah.
01:10:22.239 --> 01:10:23.920
So all we're doing is moving money.
01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:25.119
Um just different.
01:10:25.359 --> 01:10:25.680
Yes.
01:10:25.920 --> 01:10:26.159
Okay.
01:10:26.319 --> 01:10:27.840
Yeah, I'm quite clear about that.
01:10:27.920 --> 01:10:33.680
You know, we've got to try drive new business, we've got to make sure people are paying funding pensions, we've got to make sure they're having protection policies.
01:10:33.840 --> 01:10:37.279
But the core of it, you know, most businesses were just moving money around.
01:10:37.359 --> 01:10:50.000
So to me, to answer your question, if we understand that Ned Caslip, which I do quite I quite like that came out because the group skiing businesses, what's happening is group scheme was being written, everybody's quoting new business figures, weren't telling you they're losing that as quick as they're getting on the board.
01:10:50.239 --> 01:10:55.439
That's why in fence businesses start talking about retention levels, which are important to understand what the retention of the funds are.
01:10:55.600 --> 01:10:57.840
So I think um is it improving it?
01:10:57.920 --> 01:11:08.159
I think in a funny sort of way it will because everybody's sharpening their pensions, pencil pencils, so in other words, what they're trying to do is see how it will raise the bar, but it might not change the bar.
01:11:08.399 --> 01:11:08.640
Yes.
01:11:08.720 --> 01:11:11.039
Okay, and which is great, and I'm very clear about that.
01:11:11.199 --> 01:11:11.760
Yeah.
01:11:12.399 --> 01:11:17.359
And what do you think it might look in another 10 years' time when you're 60 years in?
01:11:19.760 --> 01:11:24.880
Your probably hair will need cutting steel by then, but Ava will still be saying I'm gonna lose weight.
01:11:27.279 --> 01:11:28.720
So one of those isn't it?
01:11:28.880 --> 01:11:30.079
And you'll still be saying you're funny.
01:11:30.239 --> 01:11:31.119
Yes, absolutely.
01:11:31.680 --> 01:11:41.680
My hope is in funny sort of way at the minute, the driving force in 40 years, I've seen the death of the industry 50 years, I've seen the death of industry so many times.
01:11:41.840 --> 01:11:42.239
Guess what?
01:11:42.399 --> 01:11:43.600
We're yeah now.
01:11:43.840 --> 01:11:44.960
Will the industry still be here?
01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:45.359
Yes.
01:11:45.439 --> 01:11:46.479
Will it have changed?
01:11:46.640 --> 01:11:47.840
Absolutely right.
01:11:48.079 --> 01:11:51.359
Will more people be likely to do see what AI does?
01:11:51.600 --> 01:11:52.640
Absolutely right.
01:11:52.800 --> 01:11:57.520
So your competition may not be Joe Bloggs, it might be an AI tool.
01:11:57.680 --> 01:11:58.000
Yeah.
01:11:58.319 --> 01:12:03.119
But I there will still, I'm passionate about you still need advice.
01:12:03.279 --> 01:12:04.880
Um, and people say you would say that.
01:12:05.039 --> 01:12:06.239
The answer is I'm I'm bound to.
01:12:06.399 --> 01:12:08.159
Back to I want to represent the brand.
01:12:08.319 --> 01:12:14.159
And the brand I represent is the financial services world, which is advice, be it independent, tide, whatever you call it, it's advice.
01:12:14.399 --> 01:12:16.239
So to me, you've got to get behind that.
01:12:16.560 --> 01:12:19.439
You know, do we believe that advice is still going to be here in 10 years' time?
01:12:19.600 --> 01:12:21.359
Everything I'm looking at at the minute, yes.
01:12:21.520 --> 01:12:24.079
Yes, we know there's huge change going on with AI.
01:12:24.239 --> 01:12:25.760
Yes, but we're still here.
01:12:26.079 --> 01:12:28.239
So probably leave you with a optimistic.
01:12:28.479 --> 01:12:29.600
In 10 years' time, I'll be 80.
01:12:29.680 --> 01:12:32.960
I'm sure I need a Zimmer frame to get in here or whatever if I'm still here.
01:12:33.119 --> 01:12:35.680
But you've got to be enthusiastic about the market.
01:12:35.840 --> 01:12:37.680
The day you're not enthusiastic, don't do it.
01:12:38.000 --> 01:12:41.520
I'm bored with people grey and moaning everywhere you go.
01:12:41.600 --> 01:12:45.840
And but actually, being a financial advisor is a hell of a responsibility.
01:12:46.079 --> 01:12:49.039
And with that responsibility can come great rewards.
01:12:49.359 --> 01:12:53.600
But you and I know a lot of people don't succeed, and we should never, ever take anything for granted.
01:12:53.680 --> 01:12:57.680
You know, I get very grumpy, and you must have heard it, the client's only got 50 grand.
01:12:57.920 --> 01:12:58.640
What are you talking?
01:12:58.800 --> 01:12:59.439
Only 50 grand.
01:12:59.920 --> 01:13:00.720
For everything they've got.
01:13:00.880 --> 01:13:01.199
Yes.
01:13:01.279 --> 01:13:01.359
Yeah.
01:13:01.520 --> 01:13:03.439
And we mustn't, as an industry, lose sight of that.
01:13:03.760 --> 01:13:06.800
I accept there's margins to work on it, but we have to be enthusiastic.
01:13:06.960 --> 01:13:12.800
We have to believe that what we're doing is adding value to the client with that relationship.
01:13:13.119 --> 01:13:17.359
It's interesting, is it, when you hear some advisors say that, because some of them don't have 50 grand themselves.
01:13:17.600 --> 01:13:18.319
Absolutely right.
01:13:18.960 --> 01:13:22.960
And and that's you know, so you know, if I said to perhaps this is a good way to leave it.
01:13:23.039 --> 01:13:29.840
If I said to any advisor who decides to listen to this war and peace, um we what we I'd say is make sure you practice what you preach as well.
01:13:30.079 --> 01:13:32.079
Yeah, have the things you say they should have.
01:13:32.239 --> 01:13:32.399
Absolutely.
01:13:32.720 --> 01:13:33.199
Have you got a will?
01:13:33.439 --> 01:13:37.199
So in other words, you you know that sometimes the decorator's house is the worst decorated house.
01:13:37.279 --> 01:13:37.439
Yeah.
01:13:37.600 --> 01:13:38.880
Because by the time they get home, they can't do it.
01:13:39.920 --> 01:13:41.199
When I why did I get robbed?
01:13:41.279 --> 01:13:42.960
Because when I got home, I couldn't be bothered.
01:13:43.119 --> 01:13:46.239
So I'd happily make sure that my stuff's in place.
01:13:46.319 --> 01:13:59.279
You know, some of the stuff is, you know, I I I I'm I'm gobsmacked by how many people in today's world still haven't got wills, still haven't got lasting power of attorneys, still haven't got the what you know, uh, expression of wish form completed in the right way.
01:13:59.439 --> 01:14:01.119
This is real basic stuff.
01:14:01.279 --> 01:14:01.520
Yeah.
01:14:01.680 --> 01:14:05.520
And I think sometimes don't lose sight of the real basic stuff.
01:14:05.840 --> 01:14:07.039
But also, do you know what?
01:14:07.199 --> 01:14:08.159
Enjoy it.
01:14:08.479 --> 01:14:10.880
Try and put a smile on the client's face because they're miserable.
01:14:11.359 --> 01:14:12.640
The world we live in is a hard world.
01:14:12.720 --> 01:14:14.159
I you know, generally think it's a hard world.
01:14:14.239 --> 01:14:17.840
You know, like I said, we my sat nav wouldn't work because I couldn't, you know, there's lots of things.
01:14:18.000 --> 01:14:21.119
But actually, when you sit in front of talking to somebody, make sure it's pleasurable.
01:14:22.000 --> 01:14:24.319
Finance is a topic a lot of people don't typically discuss as well.
01:14:24.720 --> 01:14:25.039
Do you know what?
01:14:25.119 --> 01:14:26.560
They'd rather talk about their sex life.
01:14:26.800 --> 01:14:28.800
As you imagine with Dave, that doesn't take long.
01:14:30.960 --> 01:14:34.000
Move quickly on some speed questions.
01:14:35.840 --> 01:14:40.239
So we we do always wrap up with some quick fire questions here.
01:14:40.720 --> 01:14:43.520
So, one word or one sentence, quick answers.
01:14:43.840 --> 01:14:44.800
Challenge number one.
01:14:44.960 --> 01:14:48.319
Um when planning for retirement, which matters more?
01:14:48.479 --> 01:14:49.600
Money or purpose?
01:14:49.920 --> 01:14:50.960
Purpose.
01:14:51.760 --> 01:14:56.720
In one word, what is the biggest threat facing financial advice over the next decade?
01:14:56.960 --> 01:14:58.159
Legislation.
01:14:58.960 --> 01:15:02.399
In 10 years' time, will there be more advice firms or fewer?
01:15:02.720 --> 01:15:03.520
Fewer.
01:15:04.560 --> 01:15:08.960
If you were 18 again today, would you still choose the career you've had?
01:15:09.199 --> 01:15:10.720
Oh, most definitely.
01:15:11.359 --> 01:15:12.000
Amazing.
01:15:12.159 --> 01:15:15.920
Well, thank you very much for your time with us, Dane.
01:15:16.159 --> 01:15:17.359
It's been enjoyable.
01:15:17.439 --> 01:15:20.640
You've taken the mick out of Dave, so that's always always a good thing.
01:15:21.119 --> 01:15:22.960
Always a successful podcast.
01:15:23.199 --> 01:15:25.680
Uh but yeah, thank you very much for joining us.
01:15:25.840 --> 01:15:30.000
And to all of those of you listening, we will see you again next time.
01:15:30.239 --> 01:15:31.119
Thank you.