WEBVTT
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And in one of the sessions, a woman asked the question, who were you before the world told you what you were supposed to be?
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Okay?
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And that's when I heard that, I didn't think about me, I thought about her.
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And I thought, the world told her growing up in the 30s and as a young woman in the 40s, she was supposed to be a version of her mother.
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And she didn't listen very much, I guess, or she listened and pushed back.
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But first, I want to say I have really enjoyed so many conversations that I've been having with people just talking about the podcast.
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When I mention it to people, immediately they start talking about their mother or their relationship with their mother or their siblings.
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And uh I've really enjoyed those.
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Some of them are good stories, sweet stories, but not all of them.
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You know, some of them are hard stories.
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Because as we've talked about, not all mother-daughter relationships were perfect.
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And also different cultures because there's different norms and expectations of the mother-daughter relationship.
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Also, turned out it's not just for women.
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There's been a lot of men that have said that they've listened to the podcast and maybe they've shared it with their sister or they connected and understood uh some things as well.
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So that's been a lot of fun uh to talk to people about it.
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And I hope that we're building kind of a community and building connection uh with stories that people can identify with.
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And today, like I said, I'm excited uh to talk to Emily Noble.
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I think this is going to be a fun conversation.
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So welcome, Emily, to our podcast.
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Thank you.
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And so you have been an educator for 30 years or so.
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Uh you started when you were five, right?
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Sure.
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Yeah.
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No, no, I started midlife.
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Okay.
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And then you were a teacher and consultant for Mississippi State's writing project.
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Correct.
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I was an English teacher in Rankin County, and I moved to Starkville in 2004 and went to work at MSU.
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Okay, good.
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So English teacher.
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So I'm gonna have to make sure that my grammar is correct.
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Please don't.
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Please don't.
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You know, in the South, sometimes we we have uh interesting ways of talking about people or describing people, all those phrases that we use.
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And uh in in talking to you a little bit about your mother, she was a mess.
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Was that is that true?
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She they might say today she was a hot mess.
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She was a hot mess.
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She was a hot mess.
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I thought about this a lot over the past few days.
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Uh two words that came in my mind to describe her.
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The first one is she was impatient, okay, and she was restless.
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And maybe those add up to hot mess, but she she was very much an educator, uh, a librarian, career-driven, very much so.
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And always felt like she was in a hurry to get to that.
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Well, yeah, there's a new country song now that's uh Can't Sit Still.
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Okay Laney Wilson's can't, because that might have been your mom.
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She can't sit still, right?
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She's gotta go, go, go.
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Her personality was different than from her own mother.
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Oh.
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Tell us a little bit about that and her her growing up in uh West Virginia.
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Um, my grandmother's name was Bessie Griner, and she was an only child, and she was very much a domestic person.
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She sewed, she baked, she canned, she gardened.
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She did all of those things.
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Traditional grandmother didn't very traditional grandmother, and my mother didn't really have any interest in any of that.
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And I don't know if that was from when she was a child or as she got older, but from what I could tell from when we've talked about it, those things just never interested her at all.
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So I think it probably disappointed my grandmother that she didn't have those interests, and it was always a division between the two of them, you know.
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So what were her interests?
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My mother's interests.
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What did she like to do?
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That well, can we talk about the oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
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It it was she she she loved the arts, she loved literature, she loved um um I think it wasn't so much what she was interested in as more possibly what she wanted to have the opportunity to get to get interested in, if that sounds right.
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Staying at home and doing those domestic things was not going to take her places.
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She tried.
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She truly did try.
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I'm gonna say this now, and I think we can maybe branch out from this question.
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A few weeks ago, you remember I told you I went to the Southeastern Lutheran Assembly Synod, and in one of the sessions, a woman asked the question, Who were you before the world told you what you were supposed to be?
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Uh-huh.
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Okay.
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And that's when I heard that, I didn't think about me, I thought about her.
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And I thought, the world told her growing up in the 30s and as a young woman in the 40s, she was supposed to be a version of her mother.
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And she didn't listen very much, I guess, or she listened and pushed back.
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Maybe that's a better way to describe it.
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I think she pushed back even in the midst of like the pictures that I showed you of family, knowing her as she got older, I think I realized that she was pushing back but doing what was expected.
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Okay.
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And I think respectfully, absolutely.
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But I just don't want to do that.
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Absolutely, absolutely.
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And it wasn't really, we lived in West Virginia until 1967 when I was a sophomore in high school, and we moved to Jackson.
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And my father was an engineer, and for context, he grew up with two brothers, and his mother was who raised my dad and his brother.
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He his father was nowhere around.
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So the disconnect was he was doing well enough financially to where it was a one-person income.
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And it turned out to be as I was in those teenage years, I started to pay attention a little bit more.
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Before that, I was just, what are we gonna do?
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Where are we gonna go?
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What's it gonna be like?
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And then in high school, I started paying attention and I saw a division.
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I think he was like, What else do you want?
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I'm working, we have a nice home, you don't have to work, but you want to work, you know.
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So I think that that maybe gives a little bit of context.
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So you were showing me pictures of of your mom.
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She was a beautiful woman.
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Yes, she was.
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Thank you.
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A pretty girl and a beautiful woman.
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And so how did she meet your dad?
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Well, it was in Parkersburg, West Virginia.
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She had left home when she was a young woman, and this is a great lesson in irony.
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As a teacher, I would absolutely use this as a lesson in irony.
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Remember, I told you she didn't have those domestic skills, okay?
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She went to work in Parkersburg.
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First, she worked for a radio station, and she was the host, back then it was hostess, of a um homemaking show.
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Oh, really?
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And that was so far out of her wheelhouse, but it that she made it work.
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She made it work, she made it work.
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And when she told me that, I remember as a young woman, my jaw kind of dropped, and I went, so wait, you did a homemaking show?
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About what?
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You know, and she said, Well, I just read a script.
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I went, okay.
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So she enjoyed that though.
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She did, she did.
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And at this point, she had graduated high school, had not gone to college, and then she moved away, and then she left the radio show and she went to work for the Internal Revenue Service, doing what, I don't know, probably a secretary of some kind, I'm not sure.
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She worked back when people took shorthand and things like that.
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So somehow she met my dad then.
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I don't know if it was there at work because he certainly didn't work for the Internal Revenue Service, but they met somewhere in Parkersburg.
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Somebody may have, you know, introduced them to one another or something of that nature.
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But they met and they didn't date or court for long at all before they got married.
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And it was, and my brother and I asked her years later, one time we were all together at home, just the three of us, and he said, Mom, you're you and dad were so different.
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Why why did you get married?
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And this was the educator, the PhD.
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She said, Well, he was just so good looking.
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Which he was.
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Well, she's not the first woman to marry somebody just because they were good looking, I don't think, right?
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That's true.
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So so they met, and then they married in May of 1950, and I was born in July of 1951, and they stayed together uh for a while, a pretty good while, but not not forever.
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So did you have other other siblings at that time?
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Um my brother is four years younger than I am, so he was born in 55.
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I was born in 51, and he was born in 55.
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Okay.
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So then so they were they were married for you know, um, I want to say maybe about 30 years.
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Okay.
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And we had moved to Mississippi by then, and that's when things began to change.
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I think there were probably moments of of unrest prior to, but it was as I look back now as an older person, I was thinking maybe they were let's see if this works, let's see if this helps.
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You know.
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Your dad his response was not that different than uh a a lot of what we've seen today.
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What else do you want?
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I remember, do y'all do you remember uh Laura Schlesinger on the radio?
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And I remember hearing her one time, and she said, you know, men, they come home, the wife's still there, there's something to eat, there's beer in the fridge, I have a job.
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I am happy.
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The woman comes home, he's a great husband, I have great kids, we have a great life, great house.
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I don't know, I'm just not happy.
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And I I wonder if the word is happy, or maybe in today's language we would say fulfilled.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I'll never know the conversations they had.
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Probably don't want to know.
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I you know, you don't remember a lot of fighting or anything.
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Well, no, I'll tell you what happened in our household.
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There would be an argument, we never heard that, but then there would be days of silence, and that was not fun at all.
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You know, uh the silence would just be so heavy to where you thought, God, can they please make up?
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Please.
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You know.
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When did she go to college?
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Sporadically.
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She when we lived in um West Virginia, she went across to a little school in Marietta, Ohio, called Marietta College.
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And she um took some courses there.
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My dad also took some engineering courses.
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He had never been to college either.
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So they were doing this for a while together.
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And then that's when um we ended up moving in '67 here.
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She started taking courses in Jackson, what was at the research and development center there off of Jackson, Mississippi.
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Yeah, sorry.
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And off of Ridgewood Road.
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She started taking courses there through University of Mississippi.
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And she got her bachelor's, and then she continued and she got her master's.
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The thing that I remember the absolute most, and by and they were still married, they were still together.
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And then my father was hired by a tile company in Dallas, Texas.
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I know there was some discussion between the two of them.
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Are you gonna come out here with me?
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Are we gonna, you know, what's this gonna look like?
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And that was the beginning, the very hard beginning of of the end.
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And at one point she thought she would, and then I think because I remember she shared with me, I don't he said, it's too late.
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We I don't think we can make it.
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That that hurt her.
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I know it hurt her because she I could see that.
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So then they they divorced, and she just just worked on and worked on and and went to Florida State and got her PhD in library science.
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And she was working before that in the Jackson Metropolitan Library System, and she was a branch manager in Clinton, and she was on her way, you know.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So was she different?
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I mean, not right after the divorce, but later.
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Was she different uh not being married?
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Not really.
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That's a great question.
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But as I sit here and think about it, not so much.
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Um, mother was always very um restrained.
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Um, yeah, I didn't know what she was thinking all the time.
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Now she could get expressions on her face, and you'd go, oh god, we're in trouble.
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But and it and my brother and I would call it the tight-lipped expression, and it wasn't fun.
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But as far as her demeanor, she just kept moving, you know.
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And then when she finished her doctorate, then she moved to Hattiesburg because she was hired at USM to be part of the library science department, and she moved up to the directorship of that department and was a big part of uh the school during its accreditation.
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Oh, yeah.
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Yeah.
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So that makes me so very proud of her.
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Sure, absolutely.
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You know, she was a big deal.
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She yeah, and and I think maybe you used the word when we were talking.
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This was in the 80s and 90s, and so it was almost like she was kind of a pioneer in that, you know, it it wasn't as the it wasn't the norm then, particularly to leave everything behind.
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She was paving new ground for what yeah.
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And I remember going to Tallahassee and seeing her get the the what you know being hooded as a PhD.
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Um, and and it was so special, you know.
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Did she marry again?
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No, she didn't, but she had quite a relationship when she moved to Hattie's.
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Now it's gonna get spicy.
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It gets a little spicy, the spicy side of Joy Griner, which I don't think we've said her name.
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It's Joy Griner, but um, she took her maiden name back, so that tells you something.
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She was Joy Jones, and she went to her maiden name, Joy Griner.
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She had she lived in a condo in Hattiesburg for a little bit.
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Well, actually, first she lived in an apartment, and that didn't last long.
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Then she bought uh a condominium and then she bought a house, and I remember helping her move, and that was fun.
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And um, we she lived um in a lovely little neighborhood, and there was a couple that lived next door.
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He was a professor at uh at USM in the chemistry department, and his wife was I don't know, I never knew her.
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Sadly, they traveled, and his wife died while they were traveling.
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She had had been in poor health, I think.
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And so he she had been with Elizabeth and Jim for dinner and things of that nature, but then after a respectable amount of time, my mother and Jim began to see one another, and they lived right next door, and um they just started being a couple as far as they would do the things that I think you asked earlier.
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What did she what was she interested in?
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I think that was the time that she found someone to share those interests.
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They would go to all the theater um productions at USM and at Hattiesburg Civic Light Opera.
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They entertained people from the university.
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Um, they started going to church together, they went to a Unitarian church.
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They were, you know, they were never just typical.
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And um then they would they would, I remember on Saturday afternoons, they would sit and listen to Prairie Home Companion together.
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You know, they talk about books, they would watch certain shows together, and during Katrina, they were right there.
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I tried to get her to come home with me.
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Oh really?
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No, we're fine.
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So, yeah, I mean, you know, she was in Hattiesburg, they were without power and all that.
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Literally weathered the storm together, huh?
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Literally weathered it together, yeah, yeah.
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So she found that I remember uh Jim died a few years before my mother did, and she talked about him in such a fond, loving way, and she shared with us that he was the best relationship she had ever had.
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And I remember thinking, oh, well, I get it and I respect it, but that tells me everything I need to know, you know, about her relationship with my dad.
00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:37.759
So let's go back a little bit.
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What kind of mother was she as y'all were growing up?
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Well, you remember at the beginning we talked about she tried.
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I think she wanted to do her absolute best.
00:19:51.599 --> 00:20:04.960
We had the birthday parties, we we did things together, but at the same time, I don't remember, like I've heard uh the other podcast.
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:12.319
I I don't we didn't cook together, we didn't do crafts together, we didn't do any of those kind of things together.
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:18.640
I remember we'd stay up, she let me stay up and watch the Tonight Show with Steve Allen or Jack Parr.
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:20.559
That goes that far back, okay?
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:27.920
So um there were times like that, but um I was closer to my dad, to be honest with you.
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:29.839
I was very close to my dad.
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:31.039
You were a daddy's girl.
00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:41.359
I was, I was, and where we lived in the neighborhood where we lived, this is in West Virginia, um, I would wait for him to come home at the end of the day.
00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:46.720
And we would go to the grocery store together, we'd go here, there, and yawn together.
00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:49.440
And I think she just liked her time alone.
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:55.759
She wasn't a nurturer, she was a lot of that maternal, and that doesn't mean, you know, she just wasn't.
00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:05.279
She wasn't, and I'd like to think that somewhere in there she wanted to be, but I don't think she ever found her spot, you know.
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:22.000
Like when we came to Mississippi, she saw women who were a mess or or who were active and and this and that, and she just she just couldn't retch up the the drive to be that way.
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.160
So as a child, I remember her always there.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:49.279
But the best part about her as a mother, whether it was when I was younger or up until she became less of herself because of Alzheimer's, she was always ready to help financially if I needed it, if I was going through a hard time.
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:51.680
What can I do here?
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:55.279
You know, she never hesitated.
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:57.759
That was interesting to me.
00:21:57.920 --> 00:21:59.759
You know, maybe that's where she felt the most and that.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:06.480
After she had done well in her career to where she was comfortable doing that, you know.
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:08.880
Well, and so she she pushed herself.
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:13.200
I mean, she better herself, she continued kind of throughout her her life.
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:13.920
She did.
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:17.039
Did did she do that with with uh you and your brother?
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:22.559
Did she push you to she wanted me to the expectations that she had?
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:24.799
I don't think I met her expectations.
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:30.400
I truly don't, um, as far as um degrees are concerned.
00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:45.440
I don't think I ever did, but I do think that when I began working here at MSU and the work I did with teachers and as the years progressed, I don't think she understood it.
00:22:45.599 --> 00:23:02.240
You know, when I would say, Well, I was in a classroom and I did a uh an observation and that led to a classroom demonstration and blah, blah, blah, and she would go, Oh, well, that's nice, you know, but I think she really wanted me to follow in her career path.
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:07.599
And I just never had that that drive, you know.
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:20.400
So I think she was proud of what I was doing, but I sure would have liked to have seen her go further in her education.
00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:24.000
And I didn't was she different with your brother?
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:24.960
Oh gosh.
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:36.960
Rocky irritated her to no end because he was Rocky when he was younger, and my dad had moved to Dallas, and Rocky was still there.
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:47.599
He was a teenager, young, and then an early 20s, and he didn't absorb her energy like I did.
00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:51.599
And he just was like, I'm gonna go do what I do.
00:23:51.759 --> 00:24:00.559
I think he irritated her, but at the same time, she could laugh at herself and with him.
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:06.720
My sister-in-law told a story about when Rocky was supposed to take his ACT.
00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:10.319
He'd stayed out all night, literally all night.
00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:16.559
She knew he was scheduled to take the ACT the next morning, and she didn't sleep, and she didn't rest, and she worried.
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:22.160
And he came home and she lit into him, and he was like, I'll be fine.
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:23.599
And he aced it.
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:29.599
Remember, I told you when she wrote a letter to her grandfather telling him about her children.
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:37.119
This was when I was about 12, and she said, Rocky is placid, and Emily's complicated.
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:49.759
So that's what she she sent this letter to her grandfather, and my brother found it after my mother died, and when we were going through her things at her home, and we kind of got tickled over it.
00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:53.759
I don't think I'm complicated now, I think probably at 12.
00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:55.519
Absolutely, I was complicated.
00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:56.720
Can you be at 12?
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:06.720
Well, I think I was preteen complicated and difficult and moody, and Rocky was like eight, and he was like, Yeah, placid.
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:08.559
That's funny.
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:13.200
Well, and just the the the mother-daughter relationship is different than the mother-son.
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:22.400
Yeah, I mean, it just in in most most cases, the the son can get away with things that the daughter sometimes can't, or the expectations of the daughters are different.
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:27.839
As you got older, your mother didn't like of the guys you dated or whatever.
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:34.640
Was because she had been married for a long time, was she try trying to push some of those expectations on you?
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:35.680
Absolutely.
00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:45.920
I think she saw that they were um less than, um, not in a class way, not by that, but just I could do better.
00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:49.359
I I could do better, but I didn't see that.
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:53.440
I saw myself as this was fine, this was great.
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:54.720
They're nice to me.
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:59.759
That's something that I regret more than I can even express.
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:05.119
Um, but she saw something in me that I didn't see in myself.
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:13.440
It wasn't until it was all over that I finally realized how right she was.
00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:18.160
I think there was a certain amount of rebellion and wanting to get away.
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:22.319
You know, some people want to get away because there's a lot of pressure.
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:29.200
I wanted to get away from the uncomfortable feeling because it was silent a lot.
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:34.799
My mother and I never were comfortable sitting down and having a conversation.
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:39.440
We could, but it was kind of exhausting.
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:41.519
Was it because your personalities were different?
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:42.720
Very different.
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:44.240
Yeah.
00:26:44.559 --> 00:27:03.359
And sadly, it wasn't until she was more comfortable with herself when she was in Hattiesburg, particularly, and after she had retired, she worked long past retirement that she lightened up, and I began to lighten up as well.
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:09.359
I think the truth of the matter is, and this is hard to say, but I want to be truthful.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:13.039
I knew I was in a bad relationship.
00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:24.400
She knew I didn't want to admit it because I thought that would make me look wrong or maybe prove her right.
00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:31.759
There were times that I was able to let her know I I understand, you know, as she was older.
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:36.960
But I I think when we're doing something wrong, we know we're wrong and we don't want to admit it.
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:38.720
That's a I don't need somebody else to tell me.
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:42.160
It's horrible, you know.
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:44.799
So I think that was part of our rift.
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:49.519
But you're so did your relationship change as she got as you both got older?
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:52.000
Yes, yes, much more.
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:56.240
And sadly, it was around things like her health.
00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:01.759
She was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, but didn't tell us about it for the longest time.
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:09.359
And my sister-in-law was the one who was able to find more out from her and then shared that with me.
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:18.079
My mother didn't like to take medicine, she didn't like to do any of the things that it would help her to have done, you know, but she didn't do that.
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:21.759
She thought she could fight that.
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:33.200
And I remember after she retired, she was asked to write something about the School of Library Science to go into the archives, and she asked me if I would help her.
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:36.160
And that was I was so thankful for that.
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:37.200
That was a big deal.
00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:38.960
Oh, it was wonderful.
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:42.799
And then when remember I've told you about Jim.
00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:43.440
Okay.
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:50.160
When he died, they had a memorial service for him at the church where they attended together.
00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:56.400
And his daughter asked if she would speak, because his daughter didn't realize that she had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's.
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:05.440
So she really put some effort and time into preparing what she wanted to say about him.
00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:08.000
And my sister-in-law was in town.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:14.799
One of my daughters was with us, and the caregiver for my mother went with us, and we all went together.
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:20.160
And I remember just sitting there, just just hoping she's gonna do this.
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:23.599
And she did a beautiful job.
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:25.119
She she found her way.
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:27.440
You told me a story about a Barbie.
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:30.079
I did.
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:32.160
So tell me, tell us that story.
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:34.000
It's one of my favorites.
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:38.559
This was when my youngest daughter, Marilyn, was still in the Barbie doll stage.
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:41.680
So Marilyn was probably seven, eight years old.
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:47.599
I lived in in Brandon, and mother lived in Hattiesburg.
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:50.720
She lived alone, happily alone.
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:54.319
She would work, she would go to work at USM, be there.
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:59.599
She would maybe come home, drink a cup of coffee, have a light supper, and go back out.
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:01.279
This was before gym.
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:03.759
This was probably pre-Gym.
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:04.720
Yeah.
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:06.079
Absolutely pre-gym.
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:12.640
So she called me, and it was landline too, no cell phones.
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:14.880
And it was around Christmas time.
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:20.400
And one thing I didn't share with you, she didn't do her Christmas shopping remotely early.
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:20.960
Okay.
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:24.079
It was like up to the wire.
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:24.480
Okay.
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:25.359
Hey, that's me.
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:26.799
And and that's fine.
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.240
That that's after Thanksgiving is when you start thinking about it.
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:31.440
It's overrated.
00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:32.480
So yeah.
00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:42.720
So she but she would say, so she called me and I answered the phone, and she had the same thing that she would say, Emily, this is your mother.
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:43.680
Yes, ma'am.
00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:44.559
How are you?
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:46.400
What's what's going on?
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:50.480
Well, I'm going shopping, and I don't have known it was your mother.
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:50.960
No.
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:52.720
She could identify herself.
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:55.200
It was always Emily, this is your mother.
00:30:55.440 --> 00:31:00.000
So I said, okay, but I can't think of anything to get Marilyn.
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:05.519
And one thing that was so funny, it was almost like it was Marilyn's fault that she couldn't think of what to get her.
00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:07.920
And it wasn't, but that was how it sounded.
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:09.200
She's so hard to buy for.
00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:10.559
Yes, yes, yes.
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:16.880
So I I said, Well, she's really been interested in, she still loves Barbie dolls.
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:23.839
And her favorite one that she's been asking for is called Dream Date Barbie.
00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:26.720
And she said, let me write this down.
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:29.920
And Dream Date Barbie.
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:31.359
Are you sure that's what it is?
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:32.799
Yes, ma'am, that's what it is.
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:33.359
Okay.
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:35.680
Well, I'll see what I can do.
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:41.440
So the next day, Emily, this is your mother.
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:42.400
Yes.
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:54.319
Well, I tr I went shopping last night and I went to every store and asked, and I couldn't find date bait Barbie anywhere.
00:31:54.960 --> 00:32:00.000
And I remember standing there and going, wait, you ask for what?
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:02.559
And she said, Date bait Barbie.
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:04.160
Isn't that what you said?
00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:06.160
I went, no, no, Mother.
00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:08.799
It was dream date Barbie.
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:12.079
And she went, Oh, well, for heaven's sakes.
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:14.720
No wonder they looked at me so oddly.
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:16.160
I said, that would do it.
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:17.119
That would do it.
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:17.759
So yeah.
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:24.160
And you know, the people at the store were when they went home, they were like, there's a woman that came in asking for dating.
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:28.400
I thought of something else, if we have a minute to uh that was funny.
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:29.680
There was um a recipe.
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:31.119
This is before Alzheimer's.
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:32.000
Oh, good yeah.
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:32.799
Yeah, she was an enigma.
00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:47.119
That was she was what I guess an enigma because here she was highly educated, very smart, very well read, but the the everyday things of life just just disrupted her.
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:49.759
I can't think of another word right in this minute.
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:50.079
Okay.
00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:51.359
So this is so funny.
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:55.200
I have written on my paper when we when we had lunch together, yeah, Ditzy.
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:55.920
Ditsy.
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:57.440
So I I think you said that earlier.
00:32:57.680 --> 00:32:58.319
I didn't, yeah.
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:00.640
Absolutely, did see, absolutely.
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:07.920
Hence, when we started seeing signs of Alzheimer's, it was hard to tell.
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:08.880
It's hard to tell.
00:33:09.519 --> 00:33:10.079
For a little bit.
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:15.599
And but then there were other things that showed up that were definitively Alzheimer's.
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:20.960
But the one other thing that she would do that would tickle me, and I thought about this the other day.
00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:26.640
There was this, I don't know if you remember, back in the 90s, this recipe came out.
00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:37.759
It was chicken, like breaded, not breaded, but deboned and skin chicken breast, and or really the just the tender things, you would mix, it was so bad for you.
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:42.559
You would mix sour cream and mushroom soup, mix that together.
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:47.759
Before you put the chicken in the bacon dish, you would put down chipped beef.
00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:48.559
Okay.
00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:49.119
Okay.
00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:53.839
And then you'd put the chicken on top of that, and you'd mix the sour cream and mushroom soup.
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:59.759
And then if you really wanted to just do it to the nth degree, you'd put strips of bacon on top of that.
00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:00.079
Okay.
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.000
This is a high protein meal.
00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:02.960
Sure.
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:09.679
And she and she and and I I've that recipe would go to many places.
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:13.199
Well, she loved it, and she loved it if she was entertaining.
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:14.960
So, same phone call.
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:16.800
Emily, this is your mother.
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:17.920
Yes, ma'am.
00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:24.719
I am trying to get that damn recipe for that damn chicken, and I can't find it anywhere.
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:27.360
Now, what is it I'm supposed to do with that?
00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:33.840
And I remember I I wish I would just kind of put my head down and go, oh dear God.
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:35.039
Oh, here we go.
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.920
So I'd say, okay, I had it memorized.
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:46.239
I'd start and then she'd say, wait a minute, let me get something to write that down on.
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:55.760
And I remember thinking, but I never said, Well, if you knew you were calling me to get the recipe, why didn't you write it?
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:57.840
Why didn't you have something ready?
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:00.559
But no, that wasn't her way.
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:01.440
You know.
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:03.599
So that that was another thing.
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:05.199
And then that leads me to one other.
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:06.960
Now, was this before Alzheimer's 2?
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:07.280
Yeah.
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:08.400
Oh gosh, yeah.
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:09.199
Absolutely.
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:11.119
She didn't try and was it good?
00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:13.360
Was well for the time it was.
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:19.119
It was one of those 80s dishes that right now the thought of eating it kind of makes you right.
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:21.599
We did a lot with canned mushroom soup in the evening.
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:23.440
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:29.519
But then the only other cooking thing that was special was at Thanksgiving.
00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:32.880
And this was when we were still in um Jackson.
00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:45.599
We had moved to Jackson, and the way that the the kitchen was set up, it was here and then dining room, and then perpendicular to that was the living room.
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:53.679
And there was a couch in the living room, and this was Thanksgiving morning, Thanksgiving preparations for Thanksgiving dinner.
00:35:54.000 --> 00:36:05.199
She had not really done anything Thanksgiving much to speak of, but this year she had, as my dad would say, the bounties to make a turkey.
00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:10.880
And we were all kind of like, wow, okay, this is gonna be great.
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:26.079
And so we had an oven that sat up the built-in oven rather than the range, and she took the the turkey out of the oven and she lost her balance with it.
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:43.199
And my father was at the end of the couch kind of taking a nap, the TV was on, and he woke up to the turkey literally sliding across the floor into the dining room, and she was screaming, and he was like, What the hell?
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:50.000
And so that happened, and that became a Christmas vacation, except Thanksgiving.
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:51.119
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:51.280 --> 00:37:00.559
But the thing that was so uh unfortunate is that sh she wasn't able to laugh at herself at that point, you know.
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:07.119
We told the story later and she could could get tickled, but at that time it was devastating to her.
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:10.159
It was like, see, I told you I can't do all this, you know.
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:12.159
And she really wanted to be at that level.
00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:15.039
She she wanted to say I tried at least.
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:17.039
What kind of grandmother was she?
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:21.840
Oh, my oldest daughter, Melissa, she adored her.
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:29.119
She uh that she was the first child and first grandchild and very close to Melissa.
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:31.840
She did get to know Marilyn as well.
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:36.400
I think Marilyn was more forthright in a lot of ways.
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:39.039
Marilyn would irritate her.
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:48.000
But they but she was she liked to take both of them like to museums, to plays.
00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:52.559
They would go to a movie together, they would do different things together.
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:58.960
She um I Marilyn wrote something about her recently that I can share if you'd like.
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:07.199
Um, but Missy was the one who she really was very close to in the early days when Missy was a baby.
00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:13.280
I was a young mother, my mother was more present then, and so was my father.
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:18.480
So and her being the first grand, and we lived with her for a while when I was going through a divorce.
00:38:18.639 --> 00:38:29.840
So um there was a a closeness for sure between my mom and and Missy, and then with Marilyn, they grew to understand one another better as Marilyn got older.
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:31.920
Was Marilyn like you?
00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:32.719
Mm.
00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:35.920
I'd like to think she's so much better.
00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:42.480
Um Marilyn, um, maybe you she would say she was complicated.
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:42.960
Okay.
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:43.360
Yeah.
00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:44.000
Yeah.
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:50.559
Well, like there was a we still laugh about this at Thanksgiving in Hattiesburg.
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:58.719
Now, this is not my mother's fault or responsibility, but Marilyn didn't have much of an appetite for Thanksgiving food.
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:00.000
She didn't like it.
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:02.079
So we drove down my family, too.
00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:12.960
We drove down there from from Brandon, and my mother would go to Heavenly Ham in Hattiesburg get Thanksgiving dinner.
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:19.679
And uh it was the typical sweet potatoes, grand bean casserole turkey or ham.
00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:30.079
And when we were leaving, Marilyn said, Mom, she was probably about 12 or so, she said, or 13, Mom, so are we gonna stop anywhere on the way home?
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:31.440
I'm hungry.
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:35.039
And we just my mother said, What do you mean you're hungry?
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:41.199
And she said, Well, I didn't eat any of that food, and it just my mother was furious.
00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:50.000
It really and it hurt Marilyn's feelings, and it hurt my mother's feelings, and I just stood there like an idiot in the middle of all of it because she said, You are so selfish.
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:55.280
And that hurt Marilyn's feelings, but they they made it past that.
00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:56.320
They made it past that.
00:39:56.639 --> 00:40:00.480
Marilyn is the one who has written something about her.
00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:01.199
Yes.
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:02.639
So would you read that?
00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:04.000
I certainly will.
00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:06.719
Uh, this was written just recently.
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:09.440
My mother died in 2015.
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:18.079
Um, but Marilyn and I were talking about it after I had been to Hattiesburg to refresh her gravesite with flowers.
00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:22.639
And this is, I just titled it More About Joy from Marilyn.
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:26.239
Joy would reheat the same cup of coffee three times.
00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:30.800
She could bat her eyelashes just as perfectly as a Hollywood movie star.
00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:33.679
Her skincare was impeccable.
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:42.000
Her vocabulary was something to envy, and her love for cats that no one else could love was in a way envious.
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:48.400
I have so many memories of joy being taken to the university, surrounded by children's books.
00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:55.119
It gave a different meaning to left our to our own devices than what is thought of in today's world.
00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:59.519
I felt rich when I was in that room of undiscovered stories.
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:02.079
I owe my love of literature to her.
00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:07.679
I owe my disdain for nondescript people to her as well.
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:12.880
She left her mark, and I'm now grateful that some of it rubbed off on me.
00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:16.320
That fits her to it, T.
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:17.519
That is really cool.
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:19.360
Now, her disdain.
00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:28.000
It doesn't, I don't mean for it to sound like she was classist or uh elitist because she certainly was.
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:30.800
I mean, she came from the rural hills of West Virginia.
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:34.559
It's not like she came from Fifth Avenue or something, you know.
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:40.400
If people talk too loudly or ate too much or too loudly.
00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:41.360
She noticed it.
00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:43.039
Oh God, did she notice it?
00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:47.840
Well, it's like that uh, you know, the insurance commercial now about how don't become like your parents.
00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:48.239
Yes.
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:53.920
Where's I I forget what it is, but it's somebody that walks in and the guy wants to say something.
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:55.599
It's like we all see it.
00:41:55.920 --> 00:41:56.880
We all see it.
00:41:57.039 --> 00:41:58.159
But my mother was that way.
00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:04.960
Somebody would we'd we'd go out to dinner and I would know when they walked in the door, I'm like, my mother is gonna say something about their hair.
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:08.079
And I was thinking that we all see it, mother.
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:08.719
We all see it.
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:10.719
We don't have to talk about it.
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:23.840
One time when she was in the hospital in Hattiesburg, it's she'd had a stroke, very light stroke, and I drove down there and I got there, and she was in good spirits.
00:42:24.079 --> 00:42:32.079
And you know, in hospitals you see all kinds of folks, and I don't know how she was able to observe this.
00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:35.039
Maybe she had been in the ER, I don't know.
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:39.119
But she said, Have you seen the people that are here?
00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:42.320
And I went, Well, I haven't really paid any attention, Mother.
00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:47.519
She says, Well, good Lord, it just looks like they've all just come down from the hills or something.
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:50.480
And I just those kind of things stuck with me.
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:58.000
And she was from the hills, she was, and I remember saying to her, So, in other words, like where you came from, right?
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:00.639
And she went, Well, I didn't mean it that way, you know.
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:04.000
So she just she was who she was.
00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:08.400
Yeah, Alzheimer's is, and we've talked about it in other podcasts, it's a horrible thing.
00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:11.840
There are also some funny things that come out.
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:13.039
There just are.
00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:23.679
And there may not always be funny right then, but as we look back, you you were telling a story about uh uh your mom asking about where your dad was.
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:32.639
Yes, this was in Hattiesburg, and she was at this point in a very nice assisted living facility.
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:39.679
And I would drive down from here either on Friday afternoons or Saturday morning and spend the weekend.
00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:44.000
And uh so I got there Saturday morning and it was in September.
00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:52.719
Um I remember because it was hot and I walked into her apartment and it was even hotter in there.
00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:56.559
The heat was on, and she was oblivious to it.
00:43:56.639 --> 00:44:46.639
Uh she was sitting up, she had had her coffee, read the paper and she was glad to see me and I said Mother do you are it's hot in here oh I hadn't noticed and she got a lot easier back then I then I went in the bathroom where the litter box was for her cat that she took there with her and it was full it hadn't been emptied and so I went down to that's not like her no well they were supposed to take care of that okay so I went down to the station where the the nurses and the assistants were and I just asked them have you not been in to check and so we had that little conversation and I went back and I was in the bathroom on the floor cleaning the bathroom there was it was messy.
00:44:46.880 --> 00:46:57.119
She was sitting like on the bed adjacent to the bathroom and she was just musing and thinking and talking and oblivious to the smell of cat stuff and uh she said now I haven't seen your father in a while is he okay and I just was kind of in that place of cleaning and I went yes ma'am he's he's he's fine they hadn't been together in a long time no and he had died by then and I said yes ma'am he's okay and I just kept on cleaning and she said well now has he been sick and I said yeah you could say that and she said okay and then it was this flash of memory came back to her and she went oh now wait a minute didn't he marry someone else and I just sat there and I put my head down I said yes ma'am he did and she said well to hell with him then and I just sat back and I laughed it was funny then it's funny now and I remember looking at her and saying you're back yeah there were those glimpses there were those glimpses it was precious it was just who she was if you had a little more time with her what would you say to her now oh I love that question I would say how proud I am of her how sorry I was that I didn't share that with her as much as maybe she would have liked towards the end of her life we were sitting together uh this by now she had moved to Dallas so she could be my brother and his wife could help with her and I would go there and spend the weekends with her like once or twice a month and we were sitting up front in the living area and she was in her her her place of thinking now where's my car?
00:46:57.599 --> 00:49:02.719
I've got to get to classes she was in that place of thinking I'm still teaching she wasn't frantic but she was just trying to plan everything and I said it'll be okay mother it'll be okay and she said Emily you don't understand I have to be effective and I'm sorry I said happens every time I said mother you are the most effective person I've ever known and she looked at me like she was that 11 year old girl and she went really and I went oh yes ma'am you are so I would want to let her know I get it because in the later years of my career I felt like I had to fight to be effective then once I retired and I don't have Alzheimer's I can realize how important it was but yet how for the big picture of things how it wasn't always that important to be effective all the time to be right all the time to you know does that you see what I'm saying to to be able to be part of of life rather than do my job all the time you know and I would like to say I hope that she had time in the years after she retired until Alzheimer's got so intense that she was able to say I enjoyed life you know and to let her know that we were all very proud of her and that I was sorry for being complicated and that I thank her for putting up with my crazy irresponsible choices and still loving me through it.
00:49:03.519 --> 00:49:07.039
So in a way you did get to tell her some of what you wanted to at that time.
00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:11.119
Yeah when you had the you did get to share some of that.
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:39.599
Yeah well thank you for being here today and for sharing your story uh some funny parts and some uh harder things to remember but I do appreciate it oh I appreciate you both so much and you're a great listener thank you thank you and thank you listeners for joining us today as well I hope the story of Joy Griner will bring a little joy to your day as well and don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss the next daughter's story.
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:46.159
And as my mother Bobby Seal would say be patient be kind and be fair
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:09.759
And in one of the sessions, a woman asked the question, who were you before the world told you what you were supposed to be?
00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:10.880
Okay?
00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:18.399
And that's when I heard that, I didn't think about me, I thought about her.
00:00:18.879 --> 00:00:31.600
And I thought, the world told her growing up in the 30s and as a young woman in the 40s, she was supposed to be a version of her mother.
00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:40.159
And she didn't listen very much, I guess, or she listened and pushed back.
00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:08.480
But first, I want to say I have really enjoyed so many conversations that I've been having with people just talking about the podcast.
00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:15.680
When I mention it to people, immediately they start talking about their mother or their relationship with their mother or their siblings.
00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:17.920
And uh I've really enjoyed those.
00:01:18.079 --> 00:01:22.239
Some of them are good stories, sweet stories, but not all of them.
00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:24.400
You know, some of them are hard stories.
00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:28.719
Because as we've talked about, not all mother-daughter relationships were perfect.
00:01:28.879 --> 00:01:35.599
And also different cultures because there's different norms and expectations of the mother-daughter relationship.
00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:38.079
Also, turned out it's not just for women.
00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:47.359
There's been a lot of men that have said that they've listened to the podcast and maybe they've shared it with their sister or they connected and understood uh some things as well.
00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:50.879
So that's been a lot of fun uh to talk to people about it.
00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:57.920
And I hope that we're building kind of a community and building connection uh with stories that people can identify with.
00:01:58.159 --> 00:02:02.560
And today, like I said, I'm excited uh to talk to Emily Noble.
00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:05.680
I think this is going to be a fun conversation.
00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:08.319
So welcome, Emily, to our podcast.
00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:09.120
Thank you.
00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:14.000
And so you have been an educator for 30 years or so.
00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:16.240
Uh you started when you were five, right?
00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:16.800
Sure.
00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:16.960
Yeah.
00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:19.199
No, no, I started midlife.
00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:19.680
Okay.
00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:26.560
And then you were a teacher and consultant for Mississippi State's writing project.
00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:27.360
Correct.
00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:35.599
I was an English teacher in Rankin County, and I moved to Starkville in 2004 and went to work at MSU.
00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:36.319
Okay, good.
00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:37.199
So English teacher.
00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:40.159
So I'm gonna have to make sure that my grammar is correct.
00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:41.039
Please don't.
00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:42.719
Please don't.
00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:51.280
You know, in the South, sometimes we we have uh interesting ways of talking about people or describing people, all those phrases that we use.
00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:56.639
And uh in in talking to you a little bit about your mother, she was a mess.
00:02:56.879 --> 00:02:58.000
Was that is that true?
00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:00.560
She they might say today she was a hot mess.
00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:01.919
She was a hot mess.
00:03:02.159 --> 00:03:03.280
She was a hot mess.
00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:06.159
I thought about this a lot over the past few days.
00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:09.840
Uh two words that came in my mind to describe her.
00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:14.800
The first one is she was impatient, okay, and she was restless.
00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:27.520
And maybe those add up to hot mess, but she she was very much an educator, uh, a librarian, career-driven, very much so.
00:03:27.840 --> 00:03:31.759
And always felt like she was in a hurry to get to that.
00:03:32.000 --> 00:03:35.120
Well, yeah, there's a new country song now that's uh Can't Sit Still.
00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:37.199
Okay Laney Wilson's can't, because that might have been your mom.
00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:38.159
She can't sit still, right?
00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:39.280
She's gotta go, go, go.
00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:43.759
Her personality was different than from her own mother.
00:03:44.000 --> 00:03:44.240
Oh.
00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:48.479
Tell us a little bit about that and her her growing up in uh West Virginia.
00:03:49.199 --> 00:04:00.879
Um, my grandmother's name was Bessie Griner, and she was an only child, and she was very much a domestic person.
00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:05.599
She sewed, she baked, she canned, she gardened.
00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:07.280
She did all of those things.
00:04:07.599 --> 00:04:14.080
Traditional grandmother didn't very traditional grandmother, and my mother didn't really have any interest in any of that.
00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:27.120
And I don't know if that was from when she was a child or as she got older, but from what I could tell from when we've talked about it, those things just never interested her at all.
00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:39.360
So I think it probably disappointed my grandmother that she didn't have those interests, and it was always a division between the two of them, you know.
00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:41.199
So what were her interests?
00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:42.480
My mother's interests.
00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:44.800
What did she like to do?
00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:49.279
That well, can we talk about the oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:04:49.600 --> 00:05:11.279
It it was she she she loved the arts, she loved literature, she loved um um I think it wasn't so much what she was interested in as more possibly what she wanted to have the opportunity to get to get interested in, if that sounds right.
00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:15.839
Staying at home and doing those domestic things was not going to take her places.
00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:16.800
She tried.
00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:18.399
She truly did try.
00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:23.360
I'm gonna say this now, and I think we can maybe branch out from this question.
00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:40.319
A few weeks ago, you remember I told you I went to the Southeastern Lutheran Assembly Synod, and in one of the sessions, a woman asked the question, Who were you before the world told you what you were supposed to be?
00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:40.959
Uh-huh.
00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:41.519
Okay.
00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:48.959
And that's when I heard that, I didn't think about me, I thought about her.
00:05:49.439 --> 00:06:02.079
And I thought, the world told her growing up in the 30s and as a young woman in the 40s, she was supposed to be a version of her mother.
00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:10.800
And she didn't listen very much, I guess, or she listened and pushed back.
00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:13.839
Maybe that's a better way to describe it.
00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:30.079
I think she pushed back even in the midst of like the pictures that I showed you of family, knowing her as she got older, I think I realized that she was pushing back but doing what was expected.
00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:30.639
Okay.
00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:34.560
And I think respectfully, absolutely.
00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:36.079
But I just don't want to do that.
00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:37.839
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:47.600
And it wasn't really, we lived in West Virginia until 1967 when I was a sophomore in high school, and we moved to Jackson.
00:06:47.759 --> 00:07:01.759
And my father was an engineer, and for context, he grew up with two brothers, and his mother was who raised my dad and his brother.
00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:04.240
He his father was nowhere around.
00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:13.360
So the disconnect was he was doing well enough financially to where it was a one-person income.
00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:23.360
And it turned out to be as I was in those teenage years, I started to pay attention a little bit more.
00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:25.439
Before that, I was just, what are we gonna do?
00:07:25.519 --> 00:07:26.240
Where are we gonna go?
00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:27.439
What's it gonna be like?
00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:32.480
And then in high school, I started paying attention and I saw a division.
00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:36.560
I think he was like, What else do you want?
00:07:36.959 --> 00:07:44.160
I'm working, we have a nice home, you don't have to work, but you want to work, you know.
00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:48.160
So I think that that maybe gives a little bit of context.
00:07:48.480 --> 00:07:50.560
So you were showing me pictures of of your mom.
00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:51.439
She was a beautiful woman.
00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:52.240
Yes, she was.
00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:53.040
Thank you.
00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:55.279
A pretty girl and a beautiful woman.
00:07:55.759 --> 00:07:58.800
And so how did she meet your dad?
00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:02.639
Well, it was in Parkersburg, West Virginia.
00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:10.079
She had left home when she was a young woman, and this is a great lesson in irony.
00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:14.079
As a teacher, I would absolutely use this as a lesson in irony.
00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:18.959
Remember, I told you she didn't have those domestic skills, okay?
00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:22.800
She went to work in Parkersburg.
00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:34.960
First, she worked for a radio station, and she was the host, back then it was hostess, of a um homemaking show.
00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:36.080
Oh, really?
00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:41.519
And that was so far out of her wheelhouse, but it that she made it work.
00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:43.840
She made it work, she made it work.
00:08:43.919 --> 00:08:51.679
And when she told me that, I remember as a young woman, my jaw kind of dropped, and I went, so wait, you did a homemaking show?
00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:52.720
About what?
00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:54.960
You know, and she said, Well, I just read a script.
00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:55.919
I went, okay.
00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:57.679
So she enjoyed that though.
00:08:57.919 --> 00:08:59.039
She did, she did.
00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:17.919
And at this point, she had graduated high school, had not gone to college, and then she moved away, and then she left the radio show and she went to work for the Internal Revenue Service, doing what, I don't know, probably a secretary of some kind, I'm not sure.
00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:21.840
She worked back when people took shorthand and things like that.
00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:24.480
So somehow she met my dad then.
00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:32.159
I don't know if it was there at work because he certainly didn't work for the Internal Revenue Service, but they met somewhere in Parkersburg.
00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:37.120
Somebody may have, you know, introduced them to one another or something of that nature.
00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:45.600
But they met and they didn't date or court for long at all before they got married.
00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:58.720
And it was, and my brother and I asked her years later, one time we were all together at home, just the three of us, and he said, Mom, you're you and dad were so different.
00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:00.960
Why why did you get married?
00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:04.080
And this was the educator, the PhD.
00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:08.879
She said, Well, he was just so good looking.
00:10:10.159 --> 00:10:10.960
Which he was.
00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:15.360
Well, she's not the first woman to marry somebody just because they were good looking, I don't think, right?
00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:16.159
That's true.
00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:32.320
So so they met, and then they married in May of 1950, and I was born in July of 1951, and they stayed together uh for a while, a pretty good while, but not not forever.
00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:35.360
So did you have other other siblings at that time?
00:10:35.600 --> 00:10:39.679
Um my brother is four years younger than I am, so he was born in 55.
00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:43.360
I was born in 51, and he was born in 55.
00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:44.000
Okay.
00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:53.679
So then so they were they were married for you know, um, I want to say maybe about 30 years.
00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:54.399
Okay.
00:10:55.600 --> 00:11:02.159
And we had moved to Mississippi by then, and that's when things began to change.
00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:17.360
I think there were probably moments of of unrest prior to, but it was as I look back now as an older person, I was thinking maybe they were let's see if this works, let's see if this helps.
00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:18.000
You know.
00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:24.399
Your dad his response was not that different than uh a a lot of what we've seen today.
00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:25.519
What else do you want?
00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:31.200
I remember, do y'all do you remember uh Laura Schlesinger on the radio?
00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:44.799
And I remember hearing her one time, and she said, you know, men, they come home, the wife's still there, there's something to eat, there's beer in the fridge, I have a job.
00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:46.559
I am happy.
00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:54.720
The woman comes home, he's a great husband, I have great kids, we have a great life, great house.
00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:56.720
I don't know, I'm just not happy.
00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:03.440
And I I wonder if the word is happy, or maybe in today's language we would say fulfilled.
00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:04.639
Yeah, yeah.
00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:07.919
I'll never know the conversations they had.
00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:09.679
Probably don't want to know.
00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:12.399
I you know, you don't remember a lot of fighting or anything.
00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:16.240
Well, no, I'll tell you what happened in our household.
00:12:16.480 --> 00:12:27.600
There would be an argument, we never heard that, but then there would be days of silence, and that was not fun at all.
00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:35.440
You know, uh the silence would just be so heavy to where you thought, God, can they please make up?
00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:36.720
Please.
00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:37.519
You know.
00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:39.200
When did she go to college?
00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:41.360
Sporadically.
00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:52.559
She when we lived in um West Virginia, she went across to a little school in Marietta, Ohio, called Marietta College.
00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:56.240
And she um took some courses there.
00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:59.360
My dad also took some engineering courses.
00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:01.279
He had never been to college either.
00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:04.320
So they were doing this for a while together.
00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:11.759
And then that's when um we ended up moving in '67 here.
00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:21.759
She started taking courses in Jackson, what was at the research and development center there off of Jackson, Mississippi.
00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:22.879
Yeah, sorry.
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:24.639
And off of Ridgewood Road.
00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:28.799
She started taking courses there through University of Mississippi.
00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:35.120
And she got her bachelor's, and then she continued and she got her master's.
00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:41.039
The thing that I remember the absolute most, and by and they were still married, they were still together.
00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:48.240
And then my father was hired by a tile company in Dallas, Texas.
00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:51.759
I know there was some discussion between the two of them.
00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:54.960
Are you gonna come out here with me?
00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:58.159
Are we gonna, you know, what's this gonna look like?
00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:04.159
And that was the beginning, the very hard beginning of of the end.
00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:14.559
And at one point she thought she would, and then I think because I remember she shared with me, I don't he said, it's too late.
00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:17.200
We I don't think we can make it.
00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:19.039
That that hurt her.
00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:21.840
I know it hurt her because she I could see that.
00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:32.000
So then they they divorced, and she just just worked on and worked on and and went to Florida State and got her PhD in library science.
00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:41.679
And she was working before that in the Jackson Metropolitan Library System, and she was a branch manager in Clinton, and she was on her way, you know.
00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:42.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:44.080
So was she different?
00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:48.960
I mean, not right after the divorce, but later.
00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:53.919
Was she different uh not being married?
00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:55.120
Not really.
00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:56.559
That's a great question.
00:14:56.799 --> 00:15:01.039
But as I sit here and think about it, not so much.
00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:05.919
Um, mother was always very um restrained.
00:15:06.799 --> 00:15:09.519
Um, yeah, I didn't know what she was thinking all the time.
00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:14.000
Now she could get expressions on her face, and you'd go, oh god, we're in trouble.
00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:19.600
But and it and my brother and I would call it the tight-lipped expression, and it wasn't fun.
00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:24.960
But as far as her demeanor, she just kept moving, you know.
00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:48.399
And then when she finished her doctorate, then she moved to Hattiesburg because she was hired at USM to be part of the library science department, and she moved up to the directorship of that department and was a big part of uh the school during its accreditation.
00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:49.120
Oh, yeah.
00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:49.759
Yeah.
00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:53.120
So that makes me so very proud of her.
00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:53.919
Sure, absolutely.
00:15:54.159 --> 00:15:55.120
You know, she was a big deal.
00:15:55.759 --> 00:16:00.399
She yeah, and and I think maybe you used the word when we were talking.
00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:14.960
This was in the 80s and 90s, and so it was almost like she was kind of a pioneer in that, you know, it it wasn't as the it wasn't the norm then, particularly to leave everything behind.
00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:17.279
She was paving new ground for what yeah.
00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:23.600
And I remember going to Tallahassee and seeing her get the the what you know being hooded as a PhD.
00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:28.799
Um, and and it was so special, you know.
00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:30.639
Did she marry again?
00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:37.840
No, she didn't, but she had quite a relationship when she moved to Hattie's.
00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:39.039
Now it's gonna get spicy.
00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:44.159
It gets a little spicy, the spicy side of Joy Griner, which I don't think we've said her name.
00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:49.039
It's Joy Griner, but um, she took her maiden name back, so that tells you something.
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:54.000
She was Joy Jones, and she went to her maiden name, Joy Griner.
00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:59.360
She had she lived in a condo in Hattiesburg for a little bit.
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:02.960
Well, actually, first she lived in an apartment, and that didn't last long.
00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:11.440
Then she bought uh a condominium and then she bought a house, and I remember helping her move, and that was fun.
00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:20.559
And um, we she lived um in a lovely little neighborhood, and there was a couple that lived next door.
00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:29.279
He was a professor at uh at USM in the chemistry department, and his wife was I don't know, I never knew her.
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:35.200
Sadly, they traveled, and his wife died while they were traveling.
00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:37.839
She had had been in poor health, I think.
00:17:38.079 --> 00:18:03.920
And so he she had been with Elizabeth and Jim for dinner and things of that nature, but then after a respectable amount of time, my mother and Jim began to see one another, and they lived right next door, and um they just started being a couple as far as they would do the things that I think you asked earlier.
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:06.880
What did she what was she interested in?
00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:13.599
I think that was the time that she found someone to share those interests.
00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:21.759
They would go to all the theater um productions at USM and at Hattiesburg Civic Light Opera.
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:25.599
They entertained people from the university.
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:30.480
Um, they started going to church together, they went to a Unitarian church.
00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:33.680
They were, you know, they were never just typical.
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:41.680
And um then they would they would, I remember on Saturday afternoons, they would sit and listen to Prairie Home Companion together.
00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:50.000
You know, they talk about books, they would watch certain shows together, and during Katrina, they were right there.
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:51.680
I tried to get her to come home with me.
00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:52.240
Oh really?
00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:54.000
No, we're fine.
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:59.440
So, yeah, I mean, you know, she was in Hattiesburg, they were without power and all that.
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:01.680
Literally weathered the storm together, huh?
00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:04.480
Literally weathered it together, yeah, yeah.
00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:25.039
So she found that I remember uh Jim died a few years before my mother did, and she talked about him in such a fond, loving way, and she shared with us that he was the best relationship she had ever had.
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:36.079
And I remember thinking, oh, well, I get it and I respect it, but that tells me everything I need to know, you know, about her relationship with my dad.
00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:37.759
So let's go back a little bit.
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:41.599
What kind of mother was she as y'all were growing up?
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:45.279
Well, you remember at the beginning we talked about she tried.
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:51.440
I think she wanted to do her absolute best.
00:19:51.599 --> 00:20:04.960
We had the birthday parties, we we did things together, but at the same time, I don't remember, like I've heard uh the other podcast.
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:12.319
I I don't we didn't cook together, we didn't do crafts together, we didn't do any of those kind of things together.
00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:18.640
I remember we'd stay up, she let me stay up and watch the Tonight Show with Steve Allen or Jack Parr.
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:20.559
That goes that far back, okay?
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:27.920
So um there were times like that, but um I was closer to my dad, to be honest with you.
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:29.839
I was very close to my dad.
00:20:30.079 --> 00:20:31.039
You were a daddy's girl.
00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:41.359
I was, I was, and where we lived in the neighborhood where we lived, this is in West Virginia, um, I would wait for him to come home at the end of the day.
00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:46.720
And we would go to the grocery store together, we'd go here, there, and yawn together.
00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:49.440
And I think she just liked her time alone.
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:55.759
She wasn't a nurturer, she was a lot of that maternal, and that doesn't mean, you know, she just wasn't.
00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:05.279
She wasn't, and I'd like to think that somewhere in there she wanted to be, but I don't think she ever found her spot, you know.
00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:22.000
Like when we came to Mississippi, she saw women who were a mess or or who were active and and this and that, and she just she just couldn't retch up the the drive to be that way.
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.160
So as a child, I remember her always there.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:49.279
But the best part about her as a mother, whether it was when I was younger or up until she became less of herself because of Alzheimer's, she was always ready to help financially if I needed it, if I was going through a hard time.
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:51.680
What can I do here?
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:55.279
You know, she never hesitated.
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:57.759
That was interesting to me.
00:21:57.920 --> 00:21:59.759
You know, maybe that's where she felt the most and that.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:06.480
After she had done well in her career to where she was comfortable doing that, you know.
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:08.880
Well, and so she she pushed herself.
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:13.200
I mean, she better herself, she continued kind of throughout her her life.
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:13.920
She did.
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:17.039
Did did she do that with with uh you and your brother?
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:22.559
Did she push you to she wanted me to the expectations that she had?
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:24.799
I don't think I met her expectations.
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:30.400
I truly don't, um, as far as um degrees are concerned.
00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:45.440
I don't think I ever did, but I do think that when I began working here at MSU and the work I did with teachers and as the years progressed, I don't think she understood it.
00:22:45.599 --> 00:23:02.240
You know, when I would say, Well, I was in a classroom and I did a uh an observation and that led to a classroom demonstration and blah, blah, blah, and she would go, Oh, well, that's nice, you know, but I think she really wanted me to follow in her career path.
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:07.599
And I just never had that that drive, you know.
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:20.400
So I think she was proud of what I was doing, but I sure would have liked to have seen her go further in her education.
00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:24.000
And I didn't was she different with your brother?
00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:24.960
Oh gosh.
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:36.960
Rocky irritated her to no end because he was Rocky when he was younger, and my dad had moved to Dallas, and Rocky was still there.
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:47.599
He was a teenager, young, and then an early 20s, and he didn't absorb her energy like I did.
00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:51.599
And he just was like, I'm gonna go do what I do.
00:23:51.759 --> 00:24:00.559
I think he irritated her, but at the same time, she could laugh at herself and with him.
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:06.720
My sister-in-law told a story about when Rocky was supposed to take his ACT.
00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:10.319
He'd stayed out all night, literally all night.
00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:16.559
She knew he was scheduled to take the ACT the next morning, and she didn't sleep, and she didn't rest, and she worried.
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:22.160
And he came home and she lit into him, and he was like, I'll be fine.
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:23.599
And he aced it.
00:24:23.759 --> 00:24:29.599
Remember, I told you when she wrote a letter to her grandfather telling him about her children.
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:37.119
This was when I was about 12, and she said, Rocky is placid, and Emily's complicated.
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:49.759
So that's what she she sent this letter to her grandfather, and my brother found it after my mother died, and when we were going through her things at her home, and we kind of got tickled over it.
00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:53.759
I don't think I'm complicated now, I think probably at 12.
00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:55.519
Absolutely, I was complicated.
00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:56.720
Can you be at 12?
00:24:56.960 --> 00:25:06.720
Well, I think I was preteen complicated and difficult and moody, and Rocky was like eight, and he was like, Yeah, placid.
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:08.559
That's funny.
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:13.200
Well, and just the the the mother-daughter relationship is different than the mother-son.
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:22.400
Yeah, I mean, it just in in most most cases, the the son can get away with things that the daughter sometimes can't, or the expectations of the daughters are different.
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:27.839
As you got older, your mother didn't like of the guys you dated or whatever.
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:34.640
Was because she had been married for a long time, was she try trying to push some of those expectations on you?
00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:35.680
Absolutely.
00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:45.920
I think she saw that they were um less than, um, not in a class way, not by that, but just I could do better.
00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:49.359
I I could do better, but I didn't see that.
00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:53.440
I saw myself as this was fine, this was great.
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:54.720
They're nice to me.
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:59.759
That's something that I regret more than I can even express.
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:05.119
Um, but she saw something in me that I didn't see in myself.
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:13.440
It wasn't until it was all over that I finally realized how right she was.
00:26:13.759 --> 00:26:18.160
I think there was a certain amount of rebellion and wanting to get away.
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:22.319
You know, some people want to get away because there's a lot of pressure.
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:29.200
I wanted to get away from the uncomfortable feeling because it was silent a lot.
00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:34.799
My mother and I never were comfortable sitting down and having a conversation.
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:39.440
We could, but it was kind of exhausting.
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:41.519
Was it because your personalities were different?
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:42.720
Very different.
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:44.240
Yeah.
00:26:44.559 --> 00:27:03.359
And sadly, it wasn't until she was more comfortable with herself when she was in Hattiesburg, particularly, and after she had retired, she worked long past retirement that she lightened up, and I began to lighten up as well.
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:09.359
I think the truth of the matter is, and this is hard to say, but I want to be truthful.
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:13.039
I knew I was in a bad relationship.
00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:24.400
She knew I didn't want to admit it because I thought that would make me look wrong or maybe prove her right.
00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:31.759
There were times that I was able to let her know I I understand, you know, as she was older.
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:36.960
But I I think when we're doing something wrong, we know we're wrong and we don't want to admit it.
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:38.720
That's a I don't need somebody else to tell me.
00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:42.160
It's horrible, you know.
00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:44.799
So I think that was part of our rift.
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:49.519
But you're so did your relationship change as she got as you both got older?
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:52.000
Yes, yes, much more.
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:56.240
And sadly, it was around things like her health.
00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:01.759
She was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, but didn't tell us about it for the longest time.
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:09.359
And my sister-in-law was the one who was able to find more out from her and then shared that with me.
00:28:09.599 --> 00:28:18.079
My mother didn't like to take medicine, she didn't like to do any of the things that it would help her to have done, you know, but she didn't do that.
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:21.759
She thought she could fight that.
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:33.200
And I remember after she retired, she was asked to write something about the School of Library Science to go into the archives, and she asked me if I would help her.
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:36.160
And that was I was so thankful for that.
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:37.200
That was a big deal.
00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:38.960
Oh, it was wonderful.
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:42.799
And then when remember I've told you about Jim.
00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:43.440
Okay.
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:50.160
When he died, they had a memorial service for him at the church where they attended together.
00:28:50.720 --> 00:28:56.400
And his daughter asked if she would speak, because his daughter didn't realize that she had been diagnosed with Alzheimer's.
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:05.440
So she really put some effort and time into preparing what she wanted to say about him.
00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:08.000
And my sister-in-law was in town.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:14.799
One of my daughters was with us, and the caregiver for my mother went with us, and we all went together.
00:29:14.880 --> 00:29:20.160
And I remember just sitting there, just just hoping she's gonna do this.
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:23.599
And she did a beautiful job.
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:25.119
She she found her way.
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:27.440
You told me a story about a Barbie.
00:29:29.440 --> 00:29:30.079
I did.
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:32.160
So tell me, tell us that story.
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:34.000
It's one of my favorites.
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:38.559
This was when my youngest daughter, Marilyn, was still in the Barbie doll stage.
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:41.680
So Marilyn was probably seven, eight years old.
00:29:41.839 --> 00:29:47.599
I lived in in Brandon, and mother lived in Hattiesburg.
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:50.720
She lived alone, happily alone.
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:54.319
She would work, she would go to work at USM, be there.
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:59.599
She would maybe come home, drink a cup of coffee, have a light supper, and go back out.
00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:01.279
This was before gym.
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:03.759
This was probably pre-Gym.
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:04.720
Yeah.
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:06.079
Absolutely pre-gym.
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:12.640
So she called me, and it was landline too, no cell phones.
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:14.880
And it was around Christmas time.
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:20.400
And one thing I didn't share with you, she didn't do her Christmas shopping remotely early.
00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:20.960
Okay.
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:24.079
It was like up to the wire.
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:24.480
Okay.
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:25.359
Hey, that's me.
00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:26.799
And and that's fine.
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.240
That that's after Thanksgiving is when you start thinking about it.
00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:31.440
It's overrated.
00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:32.480
So yeah.
00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:42.720
So she but she would say, so she called me and I answered the phone, and she had the same thing that she would say, Emily, this is your mother.
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:43.680
Yes, ma'am.
00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:44.559
How are you?
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:46.400
What's what's going on?
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:50.480
Well, I'm going shopping, and I don't have known it was your mother.
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:50.960
No.
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:52.720
She could identify herself.
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:55.200
It was always Emily, this is your mother.
00:30:55.440 --> 00:31:00.000
So I said, okay, but I can't think of anything to get Marilyn.
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:05.519
And one thing that was so funny, it was almost like it was Marilyn's fault that she couldn't think of what to get her.
00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:07.920
And it wasn't, but that was how it sounded.
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:09.200
She's so hard to buy for.
00:31:09.519 --> 00:31:10.559
Yes, yes, yes.
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:16.880
So I I said, Well, she's really been interested in, she still loves Barbie dolls.
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:23.839
And her favorite one that she's been asking for is called Dream Date Barbie.
00:31:24.319 --> 00:31:26.720
And she said, let me write this down.
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:29.920
And Dream Date Barbie.
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:31.359
Are you sure that's what it is?
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:32.799
Yes, ma'am, that's what it is.
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:33.359
Okay.
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:35.680
Well, I'll see what I can do.
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:41.440
So the next day, Emily, this is your mother.
00:31:41.759 --> 00:31:42.400
Yes.
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:54.319
Well, I tr I went shopping last night and I went to every store and asked, and I couldn't find date bait Barbie anywhere.
00:31:54.960 --> 00:32:00.000
And I remember standing there and going, wait, you ask for what?
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:02.559
And she said, Date bait Barbie.
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:04.160
Isn't that what you said?
00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:06.160
I went, no, no, Mother.
00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:08.799
It was dream date Barbie.
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:12.079
And she went, Oh, well, for heaven's sakes.
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:14.720
No wonder they looked at me so oddly.
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:16.160
I said, that would do it.
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:17.119
That would do it.
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:17.759
So yeah.
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:24.160
And you know, the people at the store were when they went home, they were like, there's a woman that came in asking for dating.
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:28.400
I thought of something else, if we have a minute to uh that was funny.
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:29.680
There was um a recipe.
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:31.119
This is before Alzheimer's.
00:32:31.359 --> 00:32:32.000
Oh, good yeah.
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:32.799
Yeah, she was an enigma.
00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:47.119
That was she was what I guess an enigma because here she was highly educated, very smart, very well read, but the the everyday things of life just just disrupted her.
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:49.759
I can't think of another word right in this minute.
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:50.079
Okay.
00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:51.359
So this is so funny.
00:32:51.440 --> 00:32:55.200
I have written on my paper when we when we had lunch together, yeah, Ditzy.
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:55.920
Ditsy.
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:57.440
So I I think you said that earlier.
00:32:57.680 --> 00:32:58.319
I didn't, yeah.
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:00.640
Absolutely, did see, absolutely.
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:07.920
Hence, when we started seeing signs of Alzheimer's, it was hard to tell.
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:08.880
It's hard to tell.
00:33:09.519 --> 00:33:10.079
For a little bit.
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:15.599
And but then there were other things that showed up that were definitively Alzheimer's.
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:20.960
But the one other thing that she would do that would tickle me, and I thought about this the other day.
00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:26.640
There was this, I don't know if you remember, back in the 90s, this recipe came out.
00:33:26.960 --> 00:33:37.759
It was chicken, like breaded, not breaded, but deboned and skin chicken breast, and or really the just the tender things, you would mix, it was so bad for you.
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:42.559
You would mix sour cream and mushroom soup, mix that together.
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:47.759
Before you put the chicken in the bacon dish, you would put down chipped beef.
00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:48.559
Okay.
00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:49.119
Okay.
00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:53.839
And then you'd put the chicken on top of that, and you'd mix the sour cream and mushroom soup.
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:59.759
And then if you really wanted to just do it to the nth degree, you'd put strips of bacon on top of that.
00:33:59.920 --> 00:34:00.079
Okay.
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.000
This is a high protein meal.
00:34:02.319 --> 00:34:02.960
Sure.
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:09.679
And she and she and and I I've that recipe would go to many places.
00:34:09.840 --> 00:34:13.199
Well, she loved it, and she loved it if she was entertaining.
00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:14.960
So, same phone call.
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:16.800
Emily, this is your mother.
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:17.920
Yes, ma'am.
00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:24.719
I am trying to get that damn recipe for that damn chicken, and I can't find it anywhere.
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:27.360
Now, what is it I'm supposed to do with that?
00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:33.840
And I remember I I wish I would just kind of put my head down and go, oh dear God.
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:35.039
Oh, here we go.
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.920
So I'd say, okay, I had it memorized.
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:46.239
I'd start and then she'd say, wait a minute, let me get something to write that down on.
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:55.760
And I remember thinking, but I never said, Well, if you knew you were calling me to get the recipe, why didn't you write it?
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:57.840
Why didn't you have something ready?
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:00.559
But no, that wasn't her way.
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:01.440
You know.
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:03.599
So that that was another thing.
00:35:03.679 --> 00:35:05.199
And then that leads me to one other.
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:06.960
Now, was this before Alzheimer's 2?
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:07.280
Yeah.
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:08.400
Oh gosh, yeah.
00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:09.199
Absolutely.
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:11.119
She didn't try and was it good?
00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:13.360
Was well for the time it was.
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:19.119
It was one of those 80s dishes that right now the thought of eating it kind of makes you right.
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:21.599
We did a lot with canned mushroom soup in the evening.
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:23.440
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:29.519
But then the only other cooking thing that was special was at Thanksgiving.
00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:32.880
And this was when we were still in um Jackson.
00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:45.599
We had moved to Jackson, and the way that the the kitchen was set up, it was here and then dining room, and then perpendicular to that was the living room.
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:53.679
And there was a couch in the living room, and this was Thanksgiving morning, Thanksgiving preparations for Thanksgiving dinner.
00:35:54.000 --> 00:36:05.199
She had not really done anything Thanksgiving much to speak of, but this year she had, as my dad would say, the bounties to make a turkey.
00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:10.880
And we were all kind of like, wow, okay, this is gonna be great.
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:26.079
And so we had an oven that sat up the built-in oven rather than the range, and she took the the turkey out of the oven and she lost her balance with it.
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:43.199
And my father was at the end of the couch kind of taking a nap, the TV was on, and he woke up to the turkey literally sliding across the floor into the dining room, and she was screaming, and he was like, What the hell?
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:50.000
And so that happened, and that became a Christmas vacation, except Thanksgiving.
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:51.119
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:51.280 --> 00:37:00.559
But the thing that was so uh unfortunate is that sh she wasn't able to laugh at herself at that point, you know.
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:07.119
We told the story later and she could could get tickled, but at that time it was devastating to her.
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:10.159
It was like, see, I told you I can't do all this, you know.
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:12.159
And she really wanted to be at that level.
00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:15.039
She she wanted to say I tried at least.
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:17.039
What kind of grandmother was she?
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:21.840
Oh, my oldest daughter, Melissa, she adored her.
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:29.119
She uh that she was the first child and first grandchild and very close to Melissa.
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:31.840
She did get to know Marilyn as well.
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:36.400
I think Marilyn was more forthright in a lot of ways.
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:39.039
Marilyn would irritate her.
00:37:41.519 --> 00:37:48.000
But they but she was she liked to take both of them like to museums, to plays.
00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:52.559
They would go to a movie together, they would do different things together.
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:58.960
She um I Marilyn wrote something about her recently that I can share if you'd like.
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:07.199
Um, but Missy was the one who she really was very close to in the early days when Missy was a baby.
00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:13.280
I was a young mother, my mother was more present then, and so was my father.
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:18.480
So and her being the first grand, and we lived with her for a while when I was going through a divorce.
00:38:18.639 --> 00:38:29.840
So um there was a a closeness for sure between my mom and and Missy, and then with Marilyn, they grew to understand one another better as Marilyn got older.
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:31.920
Was Marilyn like you?
00:38:32.159 --> 00:38:32.719
Mm.
00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:35.920
I'd like to think she's so much better.
00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:42.480
Um Marilyn, um, maybe you she would say she was complicated.
00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:42.960
Okay.
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:43.360
Yeah.
00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:44.000
Yeah.
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:50.559
Well, like there was a we still laugh about this at Thanksgiving in Hattiesburg.
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:58.719
Now, this is not my mother's fault or responsibility, but Marilyn didn't have much of an appetite for Thanksgiving food.
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:00.000
She didn't like it.
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:02.079
So we drove down my family, too.
00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:12.960
We drove down there from from Brandon, and my mother would go to Heavenly Ham in Hattiesburg get Thanksgiving dinner.
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:19.679
And uh it was the typical sweet potatoes, grand bean casserole turkey or ham.
00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:30.079
And when we were leaving, Marilyn said, Mom, she was probably about 12 or so, she said, or 13, Mom, so are we gonna stop anywhere on the way home?
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:31.440
I'm hungry.
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:35.039
And we just my mother said, What do you mean you're hungry?
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:41.199
And she said, Well, I didn't eat any of that food, and it just my mother was furious.
00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:50.000
It really and it hurt Marilyn's feelings, and it hurt my mother's feelings, and I just stood there like an idiot in the middle of all of it because she said, You are so selfish.
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:55.280
And that hurt Marilyn's feelings, but they they made it past that.
00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:56.320
They made it past that.
00:39:56.639 --> 00:40:00.480
Marilyn is the one who has written something about her.
00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:01.199
Yes.
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:02.639
So would you read that?
00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:04.000
I certainly will.
00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:06.719
Uh, this was written just recently.
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:09.440
My mother died in 2015.
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:18.079
Um, but Marilyn and I were talking about it after I had been to Hattiesburg to refresh her gravesite with flowers.
00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:22.639
And this is, I just titled it More About Joy from Marilyn.
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:26.239
Joy would reheat the same cup of coffee three times.
00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:30.800
She could bat her eyelashes just as perfectly as a Hollywood movie star.
00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:33.679
Her skincare was impeccable.
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:42.000
Her vocabulary was something to envy, and her love for cats that no one else could love was in a way envious.
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:48.400
I have so many memories of joy being taken to the university, surrounded by children's books.
00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:55.119
It gave a different meaning to left our to our own devices than what is thought of in today's world.
00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:59.519
I felt rich when I was in that room of undiscovered stories.
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:02.079
I owe my love of literature to her.
00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:07.679
I owe my disdain for nondescript people to her as well.
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:12.880
She left her mark, and I'm now grateful that some of it rubbed off on me.
00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:16.320
That fits her to it, T.
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:17.519
That is really cool.
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:19.360
Now, her disdain.
00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:28.000
It doesn't, I don't mean for it to sound like she was classist or uh elitist because she certainly was.
00:41:28.079 --> 00:41:30.800
I mean, she came from the rural hills of West Virginia.
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:34.559
It's not like she came from Fifth Avenue or something, you know.
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:40.400
If people talk too loudly or ate too much or too loudly.
00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:41.360
She noticed it.
00:41:41.519 --> 00:41:43.039
Oh God, did she notice it?
00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:47.840
Well, it's like that uh, you know, the insurance commercial now about how don't become like your parents.
00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:48.239
Yes.
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:53.920
Where's I I forget what it is, but it's somebody that walks in and the guy wants to say something.
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:55.599
It's like we all see it.
00:41:55.920 --> 00:41:56.880
We all see it.
00:41:57.039 --> 00:41:58.159
But my mother was that way.
00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:04.960
Somebody would we'd we'd go out to dinner and I would know when they walked in the door, I'm like, my mother is gonna say something about their hair.
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:08.079
And I was thinking that we all see it, mother.
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:08.719
We all see it.
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:10.719
We don't have to talk about it.
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:23.840
One time when she was in the hospital in Hattiesburg, it's she'd had a stroke, very light stroke, and I drove down there and I got there, and she was in good spirits.
00:42:24.079 --> 00:42:32.079
And you know, in hospitals you see all kinds of folks, and I don't know how she was able to observe this.
00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:35.039
Maybe she had been in the ER, I don't know.
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:39.119
But she said, Have you seen the people that are here?
00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:42.320
And I went, Well, I haven't really paid any attention, Mother.
00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:47.519
She says, Well, good Lord, it just looks like they've all just come down from the hills or something.
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:50.480
And I just those kind of things stuck with me.
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:58.000
And she was from the hills, she was, and I remember saying to her, So, in other words, like where you came from, right?
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:00.639
And she went, Well, I didn't mean it that way, you know.
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:04.000
So she just she was who she was.
00:43:04.239 --> 00:43:08.400
Yeah, Alzheimer's is, and we've talked about it in other podcasts, it's a horrible thing.
00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:11.840
There are also some funny things that come out.
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:13.039
There just are.
00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:23.679
And there may not always be funny right then, but as we look back, you you were telling a story about uh uh your mom asking about where your dad was.
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:32.639
Yes, this was in Hattiesburg, and she was at this point in a very nice assisted living facility.
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:39.679
And I would drive down from here either on Friday afternoons or Saturday morning and spend the weekend.
00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:44.000
And uh so I got there Saturday morning and it was in September.
00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:52.719
Um I remember because it was hot and I walked into her apartment and it was even hotter in there.
00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:56.559
The heat was on, and she was oblivious to it.
00:43:56.639 --> 00:44:46.639
Uh she was sitting up, she had had her coffee, read the paper and she was glad to see me and I said Mother do you are it's hot in here oh I hadn't noticed and she got a lot easier back then I then I went in the bathroom where the litter box was for her cat that she took there with her and it was full it hadn't been emptied and so I went down to that's not like her no well they were supposed to take care of that okay so I went down to the station where the the nurses and the assistants were and I just asked them have you not been in to check and so we had that little conversation and I went back and I was in the bathroom on the floor cleaning the bathroom there was it was messy.
00:44:46.880 --> 00:46:57.119
She was sitting like on the bed adjacent to the bathroom and she was just musing and thinking and talking and oblivious to the smell of cat stuff and uh she said now I haven't seen your father in a while is he okay and I just was kind of in that place of cleaning and I went yes ma'am he's he's he's fine they hadn't been together in a long time no and he had died by then and I said yes ma'am he's okay and I just kept on cleaning and she said well now has he been sick and I said yeah you could say that and she said okay and then it was this flash of memory came back to her and she went oh now wait a minute didn't he marry someone else and I just sat there and I put my head down I said yes ma'am he did and she said well to hell with him then and I just sat back and I laughed it was funny then it's funny now and I remember looking at her and saying you're back yeah there were those glimpses there were those glimpses it was precious it was just who she was if you had a little more time with her what would you say to her now oh I love that question I would say how proud I am of her how sorry I was that I didn't share that with her as much as maybe she would have liked towards the end of her life we were sitting together uh this by now she had moved to Dallas so she could be my brother and his wife could help with her and I would go there and spend the weekends with her like once or twice a month and we were sitting up front in the living area and she was in her her her place of thinking now where's my car?
00:46:57.599 --> 00:49:02.719
I've got to get to classes she was in that place of thinking I'm still teaching she wasn't frantic but she was just trying to plan everything and I said it'll be okay mother it'll be okay and she said Emily you don't understand I have to be effective and I'm sorry I said happens every time I said mother you are the most effective person I've ever known and she looked at me like she was that 11 year old girl and she went really and I went oh yes ma'am you are so I would want to let her know I get it because in the later years of my career I felt like I had to fight to be effective then once I retired and I don't have Alzheimer's I can realize how important it was but yet how for the big picture of things how it wasn't always that important to be effective all the time to be right all the time to you know does that you see what I'm saying to to be able to be part of of life rather than do my job all the time you know and I would like to say I hope that she had time in the years after she retired until Alzheimer's got so intense that she was able to say I enjoyed life you know and to let her know that we were all very proud of her and that I was sorry for being complicated and that I thank her for putting up with my crazy irresponsible choices and still loving me through it.
00:49:03.519 --> 00:49:07.039
So in a way you did get to tell her some of what you wanted to at that time.
00:49:07.199 --> 00:49:11.119
Yeah when you had the you did get to share some of that.
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:39.599
Yeah well thank you for being here today and for sharing your story uh some funny parts and some uh harder things to remember but I do appreciate it oh I appreciate you both so much and you're a great listener thank you thank you and thank you listeners for joining us today as well I hope the story of Joy Griner will bring a little joy to your day as well and don't forget to subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss the next daughter's story.
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:46.159
And as my mother Bobby Seal would say be patient be kind and be fair
