WEBVTT
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Having a baby is supposed to be one of the most happiest times of a family's life.
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But what happens when a mother comes home, and instead of her feeling like herself, she starts to experience overwhelming sadness and anxiety and fear and even starts to lose touch with reality.
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Could that be you, my friend?
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Or maybe could it be somebody that you know?
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Well, in this particular conversation, Dr.
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Sanchez, with over 30 years of experiences as a psychologist, she unravels the biggest questions around this topic.
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What is postpartum depression?
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What is postpartum psychosis?
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What is all of this?
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And how do we support our loved ones?
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And then how do you get treated for if you are struggling with it?
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So I hope that you really enjoy this conversation.
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But most importantly, I hope that if you know somebody who's struggling with this, that you help them go get help.
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Hey, my friends, welcome to a conversation with Matthew Sanchez, the podcast produced and created by MSW Productions.
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Dr.
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Sanchez, let's just start here.
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What exactly is postpartum depression?
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Okay, so Matthew, let's let's start from the the foundation of when a woman has a baby, or even when a woman is pregnant and going through pregnancy.
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Postpartum depression can also be called peripartum depression, which means that it can also begin these emotional uh situations starting while you are carrying your baby.
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Really?
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Yes, it can actually start there.
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That's why they say peripartum.
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But the thing about postpartum depression is that we have something called, as you know, and you probably were gonna ask me, but baby blues.
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Yeah.
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Then we have postpartum, and then we can have postpartum psychosis.
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So postpartum is more extreme than the baby blues.
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Okay.
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Um, anytime you have a mental health situation where it impedes your ability to function normally, where you are as lay terms, out of sorts, things are affecting your everyday behavior, your mood is changing, then you know it's a mental health issue.
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So postpartum is when your your estrogen and your progesterone change, progesterone, those are your hormones, those are the the things that guide your moods and those types of things.
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When those things start happening, when more of those biological things start happening and it lasts longer, that's when you know you have postpartum.
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Now, what's the difference between baby blues and postpartum depression?
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Good question.
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So the baby blues, most moms have that.
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I had two kids, you know, your your body's going through this enormous change, your hormones are all out of whack, your body is different.
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You not only have emotional pains, but you have physical pains.
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And so it's normal for you for maybe two or three days after you have a baby, for you to feel depressed, and even up to two weeks or or a little longer, because you have a whole new life that you have to take care of.
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Your whole life is changed, yeah.
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Um, along with the physical and emotional things.
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There may be some crying, there may be some mood swings.
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That's typical, that's normal.
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Okay.
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You know, I mean, like, think about it, like you all of a sudden you've carried this baby for nine months.
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Right.
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And now the baby is here, and you're not only thinking, it's not only physical, but you're thinking, I'm a mom.
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I'm gonna, I have a child to raise, I have a whole nother human being.
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Right.
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While you're still adjusting to the different changes in your body, the weight gain, now the weight, sudden weight loss, the hormone imbalance, your relationship with the significant other if they're in your life, there's so many things.
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Is it more common in firstborn?
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And I'm just because I don't know at all.
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Is it more common in firstborn children or second, the second child, or when it, or does it doesn't matter?
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So let's let's do this to make sure that we can compartmentalize it.
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So if we're talking about baby blues, that can happen to most moms.
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So we it could be the first um uh pregnancy, the first baby that's born, the second, the third.
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You know, that's baby blues.
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That's just something that's typical.
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Right now, with postpartum, it could be genetic, it could be uh it's multifactoral.
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So it could be that maybe this mom's already susceptible to mental health issues, maybe she already has problems with depression, maybe she had mood swings and certain types of emotional imbalances during her periods.
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Um maybe her mom had it.
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Um, maybe there's some other factors.
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So with postpartum, it goes a little bit deeper.
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When should a family member say, all right, you know what?
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This is so much bigger than you being tired.
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This is something that's going on with you uh mentally, and it seems like it's affecting your emotions.
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When should families start taking action when they see signs like that?
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So when you're talking about postpartum, you're gonna see more intense behavior.
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Okay, and give me an example.
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What do you mean?
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So you're gonna see more, more depression, more depressed mood, more wanting to be isolated, more fragile.
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Um, you'll also see somewhat of a disconnectedness between the mom and the baby.
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You know, this is the thing.
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When women have have babies, everybody expects it to be just happy, happy, happy.
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I'm picking out the pink clothes, picking out the baby blue clothes.
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But then when you see that mom that's just like maybe doesn't want to hold the baby.
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You know, maybe the baby comes in the room and she's agitated.
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Um, and sometimes that can even be, like I said, physical things, like I can't get the milk to come out, or with baby blues, sometimes it's those kind of things when I talk about physical things, but with postpartum, it's a lot more intense.
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You see the isolatedness, you do see fatigue, you do see more irritability.
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And then you may see that despondentness where you almost worry, like, is this person gonna be okay?
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Maybe there's some suicidal tendencies or there's some comments made.
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And another thing, too, with postpartum is the feelings of guilt.
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Like I'm not worthy, you know, I don't feel this connectedness to my baby, something's wrong with me.
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Right.
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When you see those intense emotions, then that's a huge, huge sign for you to say, we need some help.
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There's more going on than just the baby blues.
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How long after giving birth can postpartum depression show up?
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Is it immediately or is it a couple of weeks after?
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Or so you know that's a good question.
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Because when it first happens, it's gonna seem normal that maybe in baby blues, it may be, you know, a couple of days or right after.
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People are different in most things.
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And the baby blues can go into two to three weeks, but with postpartum, it could start, like I said, hard to say when it actually starts, but it could go on four weeks, six weeks, it's a year, or we're still having these depressed feelings.
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Right now it's two years.
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Postpartum depression, of course, generally lasts much longer.
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Um, but like I said too, the thing with the postpartum is the inability to connect to the child and those overwhelming feelings of guilt.
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And another thing, too, that's really important with postpartum is that women are embarrassed by it because they know they're supposed to be acting a different way.
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So a lot of times they'll try to subdue that feeling so that people don't know and they're won't say it.
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Exactly.
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And it's um it's just that feeling of matter of fact, I want to say this.
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I was listening to uh a doctor, a female doctor who's actually an OB doctor.
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Wow.
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Delivers babies.
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Okay, and she could barely talk about what she went through in postpartum, she went through it, and her overwhelming sense of guilt because I'm a doctor, like I'm not supposed to have this, and her trying to hide that from everyone and how exasperating it was for her, and how overwhelmed she felt, and how fake as she said she felt because she was having these feelings.
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Why do you think it's so such a um a thing that women hide?
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I mean, of course, the obvious answer is okay, well, I'm I'm supposed to, I'm not supposed to have these feelings.
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I'm supposed to know what I'm supposed to do.
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And if I don't know, then I find somebody who can.
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But it seems like from what you're saying and what most women deal with, it's a secret thing.
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Right.
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Why is it so secret?
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Why why do why why do our brains as humans um and mothers, why do we turn that switch off?
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That I I need help switch.
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That makes sense.
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Yes.
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And I'm so glad, like I'm almost getting chills because you asked me that because such a powerful question.
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I'm gonna talk about it from the point of view as a mother and in that realm, and then generally male, female, mother, father in that way too.
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Um, when you think about it as a mom, you've gone through all these months to have this baby.
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Yeah, the expectations for you are are are huge.
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Yeah.
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The things and the images we see on TV, you know, we see the mom and the Pampers commercials, she's happy, the milk commercials, all those things.
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So we have images almost in every facet of our life that we have to, you know, that we have to live up to.
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But and then when you think of mental health in general and the stigma behind it, whether you're a mom dealing with postpartum or you're just a person dealing with mental health in general.
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When I work with people and when I do some of the other work that I do in relation to this topic, I'd often say, like, if somebody has diabetes, they have no problem talking about it and getting the medication and the help for it.
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If they have cancer or if they have COVID or the flu.
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But when it comes to us talking about what happens in our head, people are so afraid to let it be known there's something going on in there.
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And the stigma and the way that people often treat it makes people not want to talk about it.
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And not, and then when you don't want to talk about it, then you won't go get help for it.
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And then you won't deal with it.
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Right.
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And the other thing too is with depression that I have noticed is people have limited, they have limited availability to people who are depressed.
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Like people don't want to deal with depressed people.
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Because you'll often hear people say, Oh, they're pulling me down, uh, negative Nancy.
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Oh, she's draining me, or he's draining me.
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But depression is very real and it's very much something that people can't help.
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And because people shy away from it, often people won't talk about it.
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Other people, and I also think that it's also the uh it's also abuse too.
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People say it in a way that they just want attention for.
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That does have that.
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And that's and that's okay to want attention for something that's not being met by a loved one or by your spouse or by a friend.
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But when you throw in the depression that I'm depressed, it's almost like, oh now I really gotta pay attention to you.
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You see what I'm saying?
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Does that make sense?
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Am I wrong for saying that?
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No, no, and that's what I mean by when I say other people will say, Oh, she's so draining.
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Oh, let's not invite her to lunch.
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She's so draining.
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Or he he's such a downer.
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You know, people say that.
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And but what you're saying is sometimes people abuse it.
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They do.
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And so when you say it, I don't believe you.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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And then and they're not mo it's not so much sometimes that people are depressed, but they're not motivated or they don't feel like it, or they do want attention, so they throw it out there, you know.
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Yeah, they're not.
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Like the boy who cried, Wolf, they'll say, I'm depressed, and they'll say it over and over.
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But it's so hard to be able to determine when someone is seeking attention and when someone is really clinically depressed.
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And then I tell people too, when people have some of those behaviors and you say, Well, she's just faking, or he's just faking, or they're just doing that, then there is something still wrong if a person is is faking it.
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There's still some element of something mental happening with that person.
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And in terms of um warning signs.
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I'm a husband and my wife has just had a baby.
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What do what kind of warning signs?
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I know you said that she one of the warning signs is that they don't want to be with the baby or they may be detached, but what are some other warning signs that I as a husband or as a family member can look for with our our loved ones struggling with postpartum depression?
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So, okay, so if we're talking about postpartum, then that's one thing.
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And then if we're talking about postpartum psychosis, that would be another thing.
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But as a husband, you know, you're gonna notice if that person doesn't really want your help, or no matter what you do, it doesn't seem to be enough.
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If there's the constant crying, is if there's the constant sleeping, and there's no intermittent episodes of that mom being excited, like bring me the baby, bring me the baby, or you know, let me call my mom or let me call my friend or take a picture of us.
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If there's none of that, if there's no little moments of, you know, some joy, it's just complete disconnectedness, complete sadness, and the hopelessness, and and even the dialogue.
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So sometimes their dialogue is like, I'm not good at this, I'm not a good mother, I don't know how all negative.
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And so sometimes there's dialogue and then there's not dialogue.
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Sometimes there's no interaction or no communication.
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I've got my covers pulled over my head, I'm not hungry, I'm not gonna eat.
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Those are some of the signs that you that you or my family would be better without me.
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Absolutely.
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Or something like that.
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Those are the signs, right?
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Right, and it's the immediate reaction um uh to the doctor or when she goes to her next visit, tell the doctor about what's the immediate like action after that?
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So you don't because here's the thing too.
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Yeah, it's one thing as a mother, from what I understand, and you definitely correct me if I'm wrong, because I know nothing about this.
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Um, it's one thing to be tired and to have a little side because you just had a baby and you're exhausted.
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I understand that.
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But it's another thing to show those signs that you just named, and then the husband has to say something, and she thinks she's completely fine.
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Right.
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And at his point, he's like, Well, I'm just trying to help you.
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Then it caused a whole argument, and then nothing gets done.
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You see what I'm saying?
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Yeah.
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So, what is the first action as a husband or as a family member that's looking into this situation?
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Yeah, I I really like that you asked that question because you said, like, what's the first sign?
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And what do you do?
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What you don't do is wait day after day, week after week, and just say maybe she'll get better.
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That's a real good question for a new husband and maybe soon to be father soon, one of these days.
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Is because that's one of the things that people when it comes to mental health, they don't take action quick enough.
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They just don't.
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And then after something happens, then everybody is, you know, overwhelmed and everybody's grief stricken.
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So, yeah, don't ever be afraid to say, we're not gonna wait till the next appointment.
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That was what you said that I thought was outstanding.
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No, you're not gonna wait till three weeks from now or the next month for the appointment.
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You're gonna get that person and you're gonna say, like, we're gonna go to the doctor now, or we're gonna go to the emergency room, or I'm gonna call your doctor and I'm gonna let her or him know what's happening.
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But you're if that's outstanding.
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You don't wait.
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Don't just don't wait.
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I can tell you so many instances with you know, postpartum, and I can also tell you just in general, mental health in the years that I've been working where people didn't know what to do, didn't want to rock the vice.
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So they didn't do anything, and they didn't do anything, and there's tragic consequences.
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So that's an awesome don't wait, don't call them.
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Yeah, because I always think about like how many signs does a person need to see?
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Does the husband or the family member need to see until something is done?
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And you know what?
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And general, generally you know, because you know that person probably better than anybody else.
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Yes, right.
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And generally you know, but most of the time it's like, well, I'll just wait and see what happens.
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People are notorious, like, I don't want to make them upset.
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I don't want them to get mad at me.
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Yeah, you know, that type of thing.
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You can't do that.
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You cannot, when it comes to mental health, worry about the consequences that would affect you.
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You have to take care of what's going on and what you see.
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With the person, right?
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Right.
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Because ultimately it will affect the family dynamic.
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That's right.
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If it's not treated well, even if she healed is completely healed from it, right?
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Which we don't know if that's even possible.
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Right.
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Uh, as far as, you know, because you say it could go for a couple of weeks and stuff like that.
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Right.
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It can go for a couple of weeks, it can go into months and months and months.
00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:48.880
But the thing about it too is that family members are not clinicians.
00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:51.119
They are not trained to know.
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:52.480
I'm so glad you said that.
00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:55.599
Yeah, we're we're not as family members, we're not.
00:17:55.839 --> 00:18:05.119
Um, so when you see these signs and when you see this behavior, you do need to make that phone call or you do need to say to that person, no, we're we're going to the doctor.
00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:09.440
You're going and if they are resistant, then you go to the doctor, you explain.
00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:26.400
And sometimes when things, Matthew, or even beyond that, and you just can't get that person help and you see that their behavior is gonna hurt themselves, or even in postpartum hurt that baby or that child, then you have to take immediate action where you call professionals.
00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:29.759
And if that's a 9-1-1 call, then it's a 9-1-1 call.
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:36.240
So, what's the difference between a scary, intrusive thought than a regular thought?
00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:44.160
So, one thing that's scary about thoughts in general, or they usually are internal and they're in someone else's head.
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:49.680
So, unless they say something to you, you really won't know what kind of thoughts they are having.
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:51.200
And that's where that's true.
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:54.559
You can have some things happen that you don't foresee.
00:18:54.960 --> 00:19:01.119
But to answer that question, a regular thought would be like, oh, you know, I hope I'll be a good mom.
00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:03.839
I don't think I I don't think I did that feeding right.
00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:04.160
Okay.
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:06.400
I think that maybe I'm doing something wrong.
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:06.799
Okay.
00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:10.000
An intrusive thought is something that comes in that you don't want.
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:11.839
It's a thought that does scare you.
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:14.079
It's a thought that aggravates you.
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:20.799
It's a thought that may be over and over intrusive, such as, I'm a terrible mom and I don't think I should have this baby.
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:23.920
I'm a terrible mom and I think I don't need to be a mom.
00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:26.720
I'm a terrible mom and I don't think I should be living.
00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:28.400
I don't think I should be here.
00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:33.200
Or I'm a terrible mom because I don't like this baby.
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:35.119
Like I don't, I don't like my baby.
00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:37.920
You know, those are intrusive thoughts, those thoughts that burden.
00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:40.000
It's so scary to even hear you say that.
00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:40.640
Right.
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:41.119
Yes.
00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:43.680
And that's those are what intrusive thoughts are.
00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:50.319
And and even outside of the the uh area of pregnancy and postpartum, people have intrusive thoughts all the time.
00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:50.720
Wow.
00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:58.720
People may have intrusive thoughts that that they do wanna, you know, I want to jump in front of this vehicle or I or et cetera.
00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:00.640
So those are those are kind of intrusive things.
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.160
Take action, don't wait.
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:10.960
One case that has brought a lot of attention to postpartum mental health, especially postpartum psychosis, is the case of Lindsay Clancy.
00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:15.920
Clancy was a mother in Massachusetts and a former labor and delivery nurse.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:20.960
She admitted to killing her three young children in January 2023.
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:31.920
Her defense said that she was experiencing postpartum psychosis at the time, and argued that she should be found not guilty because of her mental state.
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:37.519
Prosecutors argued that she knew exactly what she was doing and she knew it was wrong.
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:44.799
Her 2026 trial ended without a final decision because the jury could not agree on a verdict.
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:47.599
The case is still unresolved.
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:53.759
Her attorney has since asked the judge to find her not guilty because of insanity.
00:20:53.920 --> 00:21:03.279
This is why we're having the conversation, because this is a heartbreaking case involving three young children.
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:04.319
And Dr.
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:11.680
Sanchez and I are having this conversation so that you don't experience this heartbreaking case.
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:12.160
Dr.
00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:20.720
Sanchez, we both have heard about this Lindsay case, and uh all I think everybody is brokenhearted about it.
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:26.960
And essentially, you know, no matter how it's said or how it's discussed, everybody is affected by it.
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:27.359
Right.
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:37.839
And um there are some people who are on the fence about it, meaning they don't they don't really care about what happens to her, and there are some people who kind of wonder, well, how does this happen?
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:38.319
Yeah.
00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:45.200
And what is um postpartum um psychosis?
00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:46.000
What is that?
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:58.720
So that's when it becomes more intense than the baby blues, of course, more intense than the postpartum, which postpartum can be treated by um psychotherapy and some medication, some antidepressants.
00:21:58.960 --> 00:21:59.839
But then you have postpartum.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:13.119
Postpartum psychosis, where the mom begins to have delusions and hallucinations and more of bipolar type behavior with psychotic features.
00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:22.079
Meaning that maybe they're hearing things, they're seeing things, maybe the voices are telling them to do things, like in that case.
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:31.839
I didn't follow that case that closely, but I followed it enough to hear some of the interactions with her and her doctors and the medication.
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:33.599
So there's different things.
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:37.519
She could have had the psychosis without medication.
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:40.000
Maybe she already had a history of mental illness.
00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:48.400
And if not, sometimes different medications, if not taken correctly, can create depression and psychotic behavior as well.
00:22:49.279 --> 00:23:00.160
Do you think, just to speak about the case a little bit, do you think that the professionals, as a professional, uh, failed her as a client?
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:02.799
Because in my mind, here's what I'm thinking.
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:04.000
All right.
00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:16.000
At what point did we, did anybody who saw her as a professional say this per this patient needs to be severely uh taken after?
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:25.599
Do you so do you think that Lindsay's therapists, all the people that had a part in her before all this happened, failed her?
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:27.680
So that's another good question.
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:39.359
And I will say again, I didn't follow the case minute by minute, so I can really comment really sincerely on every therapist and and and the psychiatrist with her.
00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:49.599
I saw enough that I did get the feeling that we didn't take it to the level and the degree we should have taken it to.
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:57.119
And I think that she felt overwhelmed, and I think that she struggled in trying to get the help that she needed.
00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:01.440
And I do think that she struggled in trying to get people to hear her.
00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:10.880
And I think a lot of times in situations that I'm dealing with recently, and I'm presently with in a situation where I'm so frustrated.
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:30.559
I'm so frustrated with how some places, how some clinics, how some clinicians, because of probably their caseload or whatever, can dispense medication, but they're not getting the psychotherapeutic face-to-face understanding that they need.
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:49.039
And I'm dealing in a situation now that's extremely tra tragic because when people go to the clinics, to the emergency rooms, and when family members say to these places they are not acting as themselves.
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:54.079
We are very worried about them taking their life or the life of someone else.
00:24:54.559 --> 00:25:06.960
When the family members go and they're seen and they ask the person, because you know when people go in there, when the when the patient comes in, there's a series of questions that you ask.
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:09.279
But it's not just about the piece of paper and those questions.
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:16.400
You have to look at them, you have to notice what we call their affect, their behavior, their their interaction with you.
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:22.079
And I'm gonna tell you, Matthew, there are times when people in those places say, Oh, I think they're okay.
00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:24.319
They can go, they'll be all right.
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:26.240
And it's far beyond that.
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:27.359
It's far beyond that.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:34.480
People have to pay more attention, and continuity of care is of the utmost importance.
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:43.440
We have to make sure that people are getting the medication the way they are supposed to get the medication, and that they are followed up upon.
00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:43.759
Yeah.
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:55.599
And that when they go to ERs and when families cry out that people don't have a 10 item questionnaire to check off and then let the person go.
00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:04.079
Because that I I also feel like that something went wrong.
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:04.799
Absolutely.
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:07.200
And somebody did not pay attention.
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:07.680
Right.
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:12.319
Well, there were just too many people based on what you were asking me.
00:26:13.119 --> 00:26:28.160
There were too many people involved with her for no one to say, oh no, no, no, no, admit, admit her right away and take this as seriously as possible.
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:36.799
And I think that people get so inundated in their work and in their patience that it's very easy to hindsight is 2020.
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:37.200
Right.
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:45.440
But I think that what you're asking, and I agree, people are going to be really angry, and people are really angry because those little babies were killed.
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:49.200
And people, our hearts go out to children who can't help themselves.
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:51.680
So it's very easy to be angry with her.
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:52.880
It's very easy to hate.
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:54.319
It's very easy to hate her.
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:55.680
It's very easy to look at us with her.
00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:59.519
We have to acknowledge what drove her to that.
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:01.839
And that's the problem with mental health.
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:18.960
People don't, people look at you, and if you look like you're okay, if you look like you come from a good home, if you look like you have money, if you're not on the streets walking with an army jacket on, if you were a nurse, or if you were a teacher, or if you were, you know, then how could you do this?
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:21.279
People will say, Oh, yeah, we understand mental health.
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:23.039
We understand she was mentally ill.
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:25.680
But then they'll come back behind and say, But how could she?
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:28.079
So you don't understand if you're asking that.
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:33.680
Like delusions and psychosis and all of those things are real.
00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:44.079
People will say, I thought that that person was gonna kill me, or I thought that person was a robot, or I thought when they say that, it's a real feeling for them.
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:45.440
It's a real feeling for them.
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.160
But if they look normal to you, you don't want to buy it.
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:55.359
When when we hear the phrase losing touch with reality, what does that look like?
00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:03.039
You know, Matthew, that can look like a lot of different things for a lot of different people in a lot of different situations.
00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:10.960
But when a person loses touch with reality, they may not know you or they may know you.
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:23.440
They could be sitting, I could be sitting across from you right now, and I could be thinking, Matthew is going to try to take something from me before I leave, and I'm going to have to do something to him so that he doesn't hurt me.
00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:31.759
It's a it's a behavior that is outside of the norm for that person or outside of what we would consider normal behavior.
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:40.960
It's when, like you said, that person begins to have intrusive thoughts and non and beliefs that are are that are not normal, beliefs that are not real.
00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:44.319
When you say, what is it like when they're not in reality?
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:47.759
Could Matthew be an android?
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:48.400
No.
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:51.920
Could there be people coming in to get us?
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:55.920
Could the government be coming in to take over our land?
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:03.119
You know, it's being in a place of confusion and abnormalcy.
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:19.920
Are there because and and I keep I keep wanting to ask you about the the warning signs because you're right, so many people miss um these warning signs because they think, oh, they'll just get over it, yeah, or it'll just pass.
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:28.640
Are there warning signs when it comes to somebody struggling with postpartum psychosis that um are shown?
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:42.480
Because in my in my thought process, I'm thinking if they're struggling with postpartum psychosis, they could look very normal on the outside, but not be very normal in the inside.
00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:43.599
Is that correct?
00:29:44.000 --> 00:30:03.759
You can look normal on the outside, but I will say this, especially for people who are around their family or their significant other or their friends, you you kind of know something is wrong is very out of sorts.
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:15.440
And I have talked to families who have had family members that have had postpartum psychosis and psychosis, or not postpartum psychosis, postpartum depression, but have had psychosis.
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.039
And they will say, I knew something was wrong.
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:22.720
I mean, she was she was saying all these strange things.
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:26.480
She was in the middle of the night sitting outside on the porch.
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:40.240
Just for no reason, right, and not talking, or she was walking down the street with her house coat on, or he was, you know, in the backyard just looking over the fence and talking to himself.
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:46.640
Or I walked in the room and they were talking to someone, or they were very agitated.
00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:50.319
A lot of times people when they're having mental health crisis, they'll get very irritable.
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:53.039
But are there warning signs before those signs?
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:54.400
Or they're like small ones.
00:30:54.480 --> 00:31:00.400
So maybe they dress different, maybe they're um, I don't know, like maybe something small is good.
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:01.119
Are they warning signs?
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:04.400
Like you're saying, it's not gonna just all of a sudden be accused.
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:04.880
Right.
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:09.119
You can start to see the signs of the person, like I said, a little bit of irritability.
00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:19.359
Okay, a little bit of disconnectedness, a little bit of, I don't want to talk so much, a little bit of sleeping too much, a little bit of awkwardness.
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:26.079
And it will typically start off a little at a time and it'll get more intense as time goes by.
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:30.880
But people start to see it, and at first they just think, oh, they might be mad about something.
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:32.000
But you know what?
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:41.599
When you see it go in one day, Matthew, and then you see they're still acting like that the second day, and then you see the third and fourth day, isn't it?
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:51.119
When you see these behaviors of being up in the middle of the night, the racing thoughts, fast talking, rapid speech.
00:31:51.599 --> 00:32:00.079
Uh, a lot of times people that are going through Christ, they'll have rapid speech or they'll have disconnected speech or they'll have sentences that don't connect and don't make sense.
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:03.200
And then when you don't understand, but it makes so much sense to them.
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:03.759
Exactly.
00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:07.680
And when when you don't understand what they're saying, then they get really irritated with you.
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:13.519
When you start to see that the first and the second day, and then again, you don't want to wait a week or two weeks.
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:14.000
Right.
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:17.839
When you know that person, and you know that they don't typically act that way.
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:28.880
You know, this is just such a uh a topic that is so um needed in um in um the world right now.
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:39.359
And I guess part of um the frustration for me as a person who loves people, right?
00:32:39.759 --> 00:33:10.559
And you touched on it when you talked about the Lindsay case, um, is that we're dealing with a system that is um designed to treat people with mental health, with postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis and psychosis without postpartum, all these things, but we're also that same system is not, it seems to be that they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing.
00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:24.400
Right, and so how does a family member treat their loved one if the system that is designed to help them mentally is broken?
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:31.920
You know, I'm happy you asked that question too, because you have to keep pushing it, you have to keep pushing the envelope.
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:34.240
You cannot stop, you have to keep pushing it.
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:37.759
Because if you don't, a tragedy can happen and they have happened.
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:41.200
So when you go to the emergency room, they say they're okay.
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:44.000
You demand to see someone else.
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:47.200
If they tell you you can go and you leave, you go right back there.
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:48.720
You go to another hospital.
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:51.519
Um, you don't stop, you continue to push.
00:33:51.680 --> 00:34:07.680
There are some things in place, and I I think some of them in our city are are somewhat recent, but you can go to to the judge in your community that's the um trying to think of the judge, uh that what is that judge called?
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:11.840
Um I don't know, it's not the circuit court judge.
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:14.239
Well, let's just see.
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:22.559
Yeah, well, okay, so you go to the court and there is a judge that is involved in having people involuntarily admitted.
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:39.199
So you can do that because a lot of times people with mental health won't go, but you can go to the community judge and you can ask for that family member or loved one based on the things that you think that they are danger to themselves or others, and you can have them involuntary committed so they could be assessed.
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:57.360
And also in our community, you can call 911 and sometimes, well, if it's a mental health issue, the correspondent, the core, it's called corresponder, and that's a person and a police person trained in mental health that will come out and do an assessment as well, and then they can have them admit it.
00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:10.079
So there are some ways around it, yes, and those some of those are more recent um uh things that have been put into place, but I would say don't ever take no, don't ever take they're okay for an answer.
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:30.559
Go from place to place, let your voice be heard, make a little situation in there if you have to, but don't let people tell you because I'm gonna tell you too, just because somebody is working in a mental health facility doesn't mean that they are in tune to mental health or that they care about it.
00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:31.760
No, yes, absolutely.
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:42.079
Because I took someone years ago to um a hospital because the person was having psychosis and they were walking down the street backwards and they were naked.
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:50.719
And when I took this person to the emergency room, I heard the nurse make a joke to the EMT.
00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:55.039
Oh, he was walking down the street naked.
00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:57.840
That happens in Alabama all the time.
00:35:58.159 --> 00:35:59.440
And it's so insensitive.
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:04.000
Yes, and I had to go to a place I didn't want to go to.
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:04.480
Right.
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:06.880
Because I couldn't believe the insensitivity.
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:15.360
If you want to make a joke about it, if you have to, if you're that insensitive dude in the little corner of the but they actually did it out loud where it could be heard.
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:19.280
So it's not just on the street or with the layperson.
00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:26.400
Sometimes people in professional places don't understand the pain of mental health in their family.
00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:33.360
It baffles me that why work in a career to help people and not give them any help?
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:35.360
It just makes me angry.
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:36.400
I don't know why.
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:37.840
You angry, me too.
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:40.559
It makes me say why even get in the field.
00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:41.840
It makes me furious.
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:43.360
That money can't be that good.
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:45.599
I'm just it makes no, it isn't.
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:59.199
And it makes me furious because I've taken so many of my own patients and clients to different places and watched the dismissiveness of the of the professional people.
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:08.159
Um, and so if I see it and family members deal with it, you know, if if I'm calling me crazy, I'm not crazy.
00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:09.599
I know, I know what I saw.
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:23.920
Yeah, and if I have a hard time dealing with people in those situations, you can imagine family members who are pleading to people to help them because of that individual that they love is having psychotic behaviors and they're afraid for them.
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:33.199
Are we are we screening mothers enough after they have their babies, or are we just focused on the baby's health?
00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:37.599
You know, there are certain screenings that are done.
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:43.280
There's certain screenings that are done, like when the mothers have their visits after they have their babies.
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:44.000
Okay.
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:47.280
And those are self-reporting questioners.
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:47.599
Okay.
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:48.719
And that's good.
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:55.119
But then again, you have moms who are afraid to show and answer these things.
00:37:55.280 --> 00:38:08.239
Just like the doctor that I that I heard um speaking, she didn't answer her depression scale correctly because she didn't want anyone to think that she was um having those feelings or feeling depressed.
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:29.440
So, although those screenings are in place, I think that it's so important for women that are beginning to go through those um issues of depression to have access to therapists to do a more intense interaction rather than just them filling out a depression scale.
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:31.440
And um, okay, what are some things?
00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:47.360
Because I'm just thinking about um all the aspects of this, what are some things that a um a mother who's struggling with post-partum depression should never hear from her family or her husband?
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:49.119
What's wrong with you?
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:51.519
Your baby is healthy.
00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:53.679
You should be so happy.
00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:55.199
Why are you so moody?
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:57.840
Well, you've been acting like this for such a long time.
00:38:58.239 --> 00:38:59.840
Oh, I don't know what's wrong with you.
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:01.119
I just don't get it.
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:04.079
Those types, that type of of And why?
00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:04.400
Why?
00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:06.719
Because that seems to be so normal now.
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:12.079
I mean, these seems to be that we're so out of touch with our own loved ones that we don't even see that this is something going on.
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:14.320
Why is that why is that not something we should say?
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:16.159
Because what are they thinking in their head?
00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:20.159
Well, it's not motivating them, it's increasing their feelings of guilt.
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:28.480
And most importantly, it is increasing their need to stay reclusive and keep the thoughts in their head quiet.
00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:34.480
I'm not gonna, since everybody thinks that I'm wrong, I'm not gonna tell anybody that I'm having these depressed thoughts.
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:46.320
And then when something bigger happens or that person does something that's more explosive, everybody's shocked, but they don't want to tell anyone because their fear of being judged.
00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:51.360
And it's difficult because because a father goes through a lot too when there's a baby.
00:39:51.679 --> 00:40:01.119
He's gonna be up at night, you know, he's gonna be um, he doesn't have the same access to his to his loved one that he had before, to his wife or to his girlfriend.
00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:07.199
He things have changed, things change dramatically, so it's difficult for that for that partner also.
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:07.679
Yeah.
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:20.639
But that burden, and not burden because you have a child, but the burden of your behavior to make everybody happy is a lot for a person who's already dealing with mental health issues.
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:21.119
Yeah.
00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:31.840
Does having some kind of spiritual practice help, like going to church every Sunday and reading your Bible or whatever people believe in?
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:33.039
Does that help?
00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:35.840
Have you seen that help with the cases that you've seen?
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:44.079
Or you know, I always tell the people that come to see me in your circle of life, there are certain things that you do need.
00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:54.960
Of course, you need your survival, you need to have food to eat, you need to have your finances, you need to have your psychosocial network, which is your family, your loved ones.
00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:56.320
You need to have their support.
00:40:56.400 --> 00:41:03.119
Yeah, you need to have your goals of what you want and what your intentions in the future are, but you also have to have that spiritual part.
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:07.599
You have to have that place you go to where you feel peace.
00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:17.360
That place whether, you know, for me, I'm a Christian, so I need to be able to go to church and bond with other people, or I need to be able to go to a place in prayer.
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:21.760
I need to have a place where I have a belief system that things will get better.
00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:22.079
Right.
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:32.159
And that's in that circle of life, that you have that spiritual part, as you say, because that gives you some hope beyond just people, people and humans.
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:38.960
Right when you have that extra spiritual piece, that piece where you go and you meditate and you find yourself.
00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:48.719
Yeah, I love that because I think that's one of the topics that are not talked about enough in this case, in this era of post-prompt depression that we're talking about.
00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:58.719
So um highly is that we're talking about the symptoms and signs, we're not talking about the spiritual aspect of it and how we can prevent it, you know, with certain things.
00:41:58.960 --> 00:41:59.119
Right.
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:04.639
Um because you talk about the medication, right, and you talk about the therapy, and you talk about the relationships.
00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:11.519
We got to talk about your spiritual, your inward thoughts, your inward, inward beliefs.
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:17.440
So where do you go to for those moments when you feel hopeless, right, where people can't touch.
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:17.920
Right.
00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:25.440
What are some other treatments or um things that help with post-proum depression?
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:38.800
Okay, so you know I talked about um psychotherapy, cognitive behavioral therapy to help people change the way they're thinking, help them with those intrusive thoughts you were talking about.
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:44.639
And then there's the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, also known as SSRIs.
00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:46.079
Those are like antidepressants.
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:46.480
Okay.
00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:52.559
Those help with the person's uh levels of serotonin and dopamine, those feel-good hormones.
00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:57.920
So those are the typical treatments for postpartum depression.
00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:04.719
Um, and then, you know, of course, for psychosis, there'd be much more and intensive should be in inpatient treatment.
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:18.000
Um, one of the things that I think too is really good is when you have someone, whether they're in the baby blues or they're in postpartum, that they I know they just had a baby, but getting them to get up and do little subtle workouts.
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:21.599
There are exercises you can do sitting down, movement.
00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:25.440
I always say that if you move your body, you'll move your mind.
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:27.360
So I think that's another component to be able to do that.
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:28.800
Going out for a walk, is that Marvel?
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:30.320
Yeah, going out in the parking lot.
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:31.039
Okay, I love that.
00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:40.880
I love that you're that um you're encouraging family members or the husband to be uh to come up with ideas for them to start moving and being out and be interactive.
00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:41.679
Okay, I love that.
00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:54.239
And that's that was one of the things I did when I after I had my first child that was living in Germany, and you know, I had a beautiful little buggy, a little German buggy that I'd bought, looked like a little baby doll buggy from the 60s, kind of, and put him in there.
00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:59.599
And my husband and I went walking through the little village with him, got me out, got the baby.
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:02.800
I mean, so it's just small stuff like that that helps too.
00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:04.000
And start off with that.
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:05.840
Start off with those little things.
00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:13.840
Can a woman fully recover from postpartum depression or postpartum psychosis?
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:14.639
Yes.
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:15.119
Yes.
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:20.400
If they have treatment, it's not, it's not a death sentence.
00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:23.360
It's not a never get better, you know?
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:31.119
Um with treatment and with intervention, most things you can get better.
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:33.440
When I say most things, what do you mean?
00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:35.039
Well, I mean like most things in life.
00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:35.440
Okay, okay.
00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:43.599
I mean like, say, for example, people, it used to be years ago, if a person was diagnosed with like schizophrenia, it was like, oh, there's no hope for that person.
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:46.400
Let's put them in a mental health facility.
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:56.239
But now, because of medications and understanding mental health, people with those very intense psychotic disorders can live a normal life.
00:44:56.960 --> 00:44:59.760
It's just education is the key.
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:08.960
Education is the key for families, education is the key for the person that has the disorder, and compliance to treatment for the things they need.
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:21.599
And the way that you often get compliance is when that person, when the family is educated, when the person's educated, and when that person has family support.
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:22.719
That's huge.
00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:29.840
Yeah, the thing that just jumped in my spirit when you said that is the mother should be the last person to ask for help.
00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:35.599
You as the family or the husband, when you see a sign, don't neglect it.
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:36.400
Don't neglect it.
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:38.159
Don't think it's just gonna pass off.
00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:39.199
That's right.
00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:42.480
And it's like you said, acceptance.
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:43.679
Accept that person.
00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:47.920
Don't just say, Oh, I don't know why she's acting like that, or this is like we're supposed to be so happy.
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:51.440
Accept where they are, and then you can help them.
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:57.840
You know, I mean, I think that's the thing that's most important is like I said earlier, you know that person.
00:45:58.159 --> 00:45:58.960
You know them.
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:02.800
So you know when they're when their behavior is way out of the realm.
00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:03.280
Yeah.
00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:05.599
But try not to get agitated by it.
00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:14.239
Well, I guess that's a good question too, because how do I, as the husband, new dad, right?
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:23.920
Just hypothetical speaking, um, how do I regulate my emotions seeing my wife act so strangely?
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:34.320
You know, how do I, how do I regulate my emotions enough to go and get her help and not be upset or not be irritated or not be, that makes sense?
00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:34.800
Yes.
00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:36.000
And that's another good question.
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:38.239
You're making me really think, and I like that.
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:47.840
You know, so many times we do things, hindsight, and what comes to my mind when you say that is preventive, preventive, preventive.
00:46:48.159 --> 00:47:10.639
When you know you're going to have a baby and you're gonna bring a child into the world, it is so important for mom and dad to have that counseling during that, either before they decide to have children or in that stage of pregnancy for for dad and mom to go to counseling so that they can someone can tell them this is what you should expect.
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:12.159
This is what may happen.
00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:15.519
If this happens, you can do this, this, or this.
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:19.920
If this happens, you know, before you don't want to wait until take precautions happen.
00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:21.840
Yeah, be proactive.
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:28.880
If you want to have a baby and you want to bring a child in the world, sometimes, you know, the best way to have children, the best way is if you plan it.
00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:30.480
It doesn't always happen that way.
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:51.840
And so if it's not planned, or whether it's planned, seek out professional so that you'll know what to do, so that so that your partner will understand you better and not be, you know, not deflect because they don't understand and not get their feelings hurt because they can think that maybe it's something that I did, you know.
00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:58.639
Maybe maybe my person now doesn't want to be a mom, and I don't like that, you know, as opposed to what can I do to help?
00:47:58.719 --> 00:47:59.840
What's happening here?
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:01.679
Okay, Dr.
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:24.079
Sanchez, there's a mother right now who's watching and um she's having scary thoughts, and she's scared that if she says something, then people will think she's a bad mom and they will say other things that will eventually hurt her.
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:32.239
What are you, as a somebody who's been in the mental health field for 30 years now, saying to her?
00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:43.840
I would beg her to call the 1-800 crisis line for maternal support uh for women that are going through postpartum.
00:48:44.719 --> 00:48:46.960
Call that 1-800 hotline.
00:48:48.159 --> 00:48:49.840
Talk to somebody you really trust.
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:54.559
If you have a really good friend, if you have somebody at your church.
00:48:55.679 --> 00:49:06.639
Um sometimes if you go through community care and you look for a therapist, it's hard sometimes because they'll say, sorry, we're not taking anyone.
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:09.360
But don't stop calling.
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:13.199
Call a mental health therapist and don't just say, I want an appointment.
00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:18.639
Say I'm going through a postpartum crisis and I need help.
00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:21.360
Because I don't know of any therapist that would turn that.
00:49:21.760 --> 00:49:22.239
I wouldn't.
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:26.480
I would immediately sometimes I'm overwhelmed because I'm I'm booked out.
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:35.039
But when someone calls and says I'm having a crisis, if I can't get them uh in my office, I'll get them somewhere.
00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:35.360
Okay.
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:43.280
But most times, to be honest with you, even if I'm overloaded and they say they're having a crisis, even if I'm only seeing them for that day, I'm going to see them.
00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:46.960
I'm not going to let them call and have them go unanswered.
00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:56.320
Um, but sometimes people will call and they won't leave a message or, you know, leave the message, say what's really happening.
00:49:56.559 --> 00:50:03.360
Don't just say, hey, I'm looking for a therapist because someone's gonna put you on a waiting list or say what you need to say.
00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:09.199
But if you really are embarrassed, then call those hotline numbers and they'll put you in touch with somebody right away.
00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:11.519
There are units that will come out to people.
00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:12.239
Well, Dr.
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.199
Sanchez, I'm so glad that we had this conversation.
00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:27.360
And um, man, I just pray that if anybody is struggling, uh any mother is struggling that um she goes goes get help.
00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:30.719
And you know something else, Matthew, let me say this because I didn't say it earlier.
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:35.519
One thing that mothers directly to the mom, as you said, what would I say to them?
00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:39.039
They need to understand it's not it's not that unusual.
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:44.960
One out of seven women have postpartum depression.
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:52.000
10 to 15 percent of women globally experience postpartum depression.
00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:54.800
So it's nothing to be ashamed of.
00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:57.360
Try to tell your closest partner.
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:05.920
If you feel like you're burdening them, call the 1-800 number, tell your most intimate friend, tell someone at your church.
00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:12.000
I don't care if you tell a stranger, but tell somebody because you can get the help you need.
00:51:12.320 --> 00:51:14.400
You'll get the help you need and you'll have a brighter day.
00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:18.000
But when you're depressed, it doesn't seem like anything in the world is gonna matter.
00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:28.400
But I'm telling you, if you get the psychotherapy, if you need medication and you get that, if you get your support from your family and friends, the sun will come out tomorrow.
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:30.480
That's so good.
00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:31.920
That's so good.
00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:32.960
Thank you, Dr.
00:51:33.039 --> 00:51:33.599
Sanchez.
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:35.679
You're welcome, Matthew, always.
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:39.840
Brought to you by MSW Productions.
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:06.400
Having a baby is supposed to be one of the most happiest times of a family's life.
00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:22.719
But what happens when a mother comes home, and instead of her feeling like herself, she starts to experience overwhelming sadness and anxiety and fear and even starts to lose touch with reality.
00:00:23.679 --> 00:00:25.600
Could that be you, my friend?
00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:28.640
Or maybe could it be somebody that you know?
00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:32.000
Well, in this particular conversation, Dr.
00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:41.920
Sanchez, with over 30 years of experiences as a psychologist, she unravels the biggest questions around this topic.
00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:44.240
What is postpartum depression?
00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:46.320
What is postpartum psychosis?
00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:47.679
What is all of this?
00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:51.359
And how do we support our loved ones?
00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:55.119
And then how do you get treated for if you are struggling with it?
00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:58.079
So I hope that you really enjoy this conversation.
00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:05.519
But most importantly, I hope that if you know somebody who's struggling with this, that you help them go get help.
00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:19.680
Hey, my friends, welcome to a conversation with Matthew Sanchez, the podcast produced and created by MSW Productions.
00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:20.640
Dr.
00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:22.879
Sanchez, let's just start here.
00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:27.120
What exactly is postpartum depression?
00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:42.000
Okay, so Matthew, let's let's start from the the foundation of when a woman has a baby, or even when a woman is pregnant and going through pregnancy.
00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:55.280
Postpartum depression can also be called peripartum depression, which means that it can also begin these emotional uh situations starting while you are carrying your baby.
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Really?
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Yes, it can actually start there.
00:01:57.439 --> 00:01:59.120
That's why they say peripartum.
00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:07.040
But the thing about postpartum depression is that we have something called, as you know, and you probably were gonna ask me, but baby blues.
00:02:07.200 --> 00:02:07.439
Yeah.
00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:11.039
Then we have postpartum, and then we can have postpartum psychosis.
00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:16.159
So postpartum is more extreme than the baby blues.
00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:16.639
Okay.
00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:35.120
Um, anytime you have a mental health situation where it impedes your ability to function normally, where you are as lay terms, out of sorts, things are affecting your everyday behavior, your mood is changing, then you know it's a mental health issue.
00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:48.560
So postpartum is when your your estrogen and your progesterone change, progesterone, those are your hormones, those are the the things that guide your moods and those types of things.
00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:55.919
When those things start happening, when more of those biological things start happening and it lasts longer, that's when you know you have postpartum.
00:02:56.800 --> 00:03:00.400
Now, what's the difference between baby blues and postpartum depression?
00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:01.439
Good question.
00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:04.319
So the baby blues, most moms have that.
00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:12.240
I had two kids, you know, your your body's going through this enormous change, your hormones are all out of whack, your body is different.
00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:16.240
You not only have emotional pains, but you have physical pains.
00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:27.439
And so it's normal for you for maybe two or three days after you have a baby, for you to feel depressed, and even up to two weeks or or a little longer, because you have a whole new life that you have to take care of.
00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:29.280
Your whole life is changed, yeah.
00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:31.599
Um, along with the physical and emotional things.
00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:34.960
There may be some crying, there may be some mood swings.
00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:36.639
That's typical, that's normal.
00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:37.039
Okay.
00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:42.159
You know, I mean, like, think about it, like you all of a sudden you've carried this baby for nine months.
00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:42.560
Right.
00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:49.120
And now the baby is here, and you're not only thinking, it's not only physical, but you're thinking, I'm a mom.
00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:53.039
I'm gonna, I have a child to raise, I have a whole nother human being.
00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:53.439
Right.
00:03:53.680 --> 00:04:06.240
While you're still adjusting to the different changes in your body, the weight gain, now the weight, sudden weight loss, the hormone imbalance, your relationship with the significant other if they're in your life, there's so many things.
00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:08.479
Is it more common in firstborn?
00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:11.439
And I'm just because I don't know at all.
00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:17.199
Is it more common in firstborn children or second, the second child, or when it, or does it doesn't matter?
00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:20.560
So let's let's do this to make sure that we can compartmentalize it.
00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:24.720
So if we're talking about baby blues, that can happen to most moms.
00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:31.279
So we it could be the first um uh pregnancy, the first baby that's born, the second, the third.
00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:32.720
You know, that's baby blues.
00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:34.000
That's just something that's typical.
00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:40.240
Right now, with postpartum, it could be genetic, it could be uh it's multifactoral.
00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:53.279
So it could be that maybe this mom's already susceptible to mental health issues, maybe she already has problems with depression, maybe she had mood swings and certain types of emotional imbalances during her periods.
00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:55.279
Um maybe her mom had it.
00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:57.360
Um, maybe there's some other factors.
00:04:57.519 --> 00:05:00.560
So with postpartum, it goes a little bit deeper.
00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:06.079
When should a family member say, all right, you know what?
00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:08.800
This is so much bigger than you being tired.
00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:15.199
This is something that's going on with you uh mentally, and it seems like it's affecting your emotions.
00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:19.279
When should families start taking action when they see signs like that?
00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:24.560
So when you're talking about postpartum, you're gonna see more intense behavior.
00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:25.839
Okay, and give me an example.
00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:26.399
What do you mean?
00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:34.879
So you're gonna see more, more depression, more depressed mood, more wanting to be isolated, more fragile.
00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:40.800
Um, you'll also see somewhat of a disconnectedness between the mom and the baby.
00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:42.160
You know, this is the thing.
00:05:42.319 --> 00:05:46.480
When women have have babies, everybody expects it to be just happy, happy, happy.
00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:50.399
I'm picking out the pink clothes, picking out the baby blue clothes.
00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:54.480
But then when you see that mom that's just like maybe doesn't want to hold the baby.
00:05:54.879 --> 00:05:57.920
You know, maybe the baby comes in the room and she's agitated.
00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:10.639
Um, and sometimes that can even be, like I said, physical things, like I can't get the milk to come out, or with baby blues, sometimes it's those kind of things when I talk about physical things, but with postpartum, it's a lot more intense.
00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:15.920
You see the isolatedness, you do see fatigue, you do see more irritability.
00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:22.480
And then you may see that despondentness where you almost worry, like, is this person gonna be okay?
00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:26.079
Maybe there's some suicidal tendencies or there's some comments made.
00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:30.399
And another thing, too, with postpartum is the feelings of guilt.
00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:36.720
Like I'm not worthy, you know, I don't feel this connectedness to my baby, something's wrong with me.
00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:37.040
Right.
00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:43.519
When you see those intense emotions, then that's a huge, huge sign for you to say, we need some help.
00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:46.079
There's more going on than just the baby blues.
00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:52.160
How long after giving birth can postpartum depression show up?
00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:56.160
Is it immediately or is it a couple of weeks after?
00:06:56.319 --> 00:06:58.319
Or so you know that's a good question.
00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:07.600
Because when it first happens, it's gonna seem normal that maybe in baby blues, it may be, you know, a couple of days or right after.
00:07:07.759 --> 00:07:09.519
People are different in most things.
00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:27.120
And the baby blues can go into two to three weeks, but with postpartum, it could start, like I said, hard to say when it actually starts, but it could go on four weeks, six weeks, it's a year, or we're still having these depressed feelings.
00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:28.639
Right now it's two years.
00:07:28.800 --> 00:07:33.439
Postpartum depression, of course, generally lasts much longer.
00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:43.839
Um, but like I said too, the thing with the postpartum is the inability to connect to the child and those overwhelming feelings of guilt.
00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:52.879
And another thing, too, that's really important with postpartum is that women are embarrassed by it because they know they're supposed to be acting a different way.
00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:58.480
So a lot of times they'll try to subdue that feeling so that people don't know and they're won't say it.
00:07:58.959 --> 00:07:59.680
Exactly.
00:07:59.920 --> 00:08:04.639
And it's um it's just that feeling of matter of fact, I want to say this.
00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:10.319
I was listening to uh a doctor, a female doctor who's actually an OB doctor.
00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:10.639
Wow.
00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:11.600
Delivers babies.
00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:34.480
Okay, and she could barely talk about what she went through in postpartum, she went through it, and her overwhelming sense of guilt because I'm a doctor, like I'm not supposed to have this, and her trying to hide that from everyone and how exasperating it was for her, and how overwhelmed she felt, and how fake as she said she felt because she was having these feelings.
00:08:34.720 --> 00:08:42.240
Why do you think it's so such a um a thing that women hide?
00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:48.320
I mean, of course, the obvious answer is okay, well, I'm I'm supposed to, I'm not supposed to have these feelings.
00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:49.919
I'm supposed to know what I'm supposed to do.
00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:52.799
And if I don't know, then I find somebody who can.
00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:57.840
But it seems like from what you're saying and what most women deal with, it's a secret thing.
00:08:58.000 --> 00:08:58.240
Right.
00:08:58.480 --> 00:08:59.600
Why is it so secret?
00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:08.240
Why why do why why do our brains as humans um and mothers, why do we turn that switch off?
00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:10.080
That I I need help switch.
00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:10.960
That makes sense.
00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:11.440
Yes.
00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:15.919
And I'm so glad, like I'm almost getting chills because you asked me that because such a powerful question.
00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:27.679
I'm gonna talk about it from the point of view as a mother and in that realm, and then generally male, female, mother, father in that way too.
00:09:28.159 --> 00:09:34.240
Um, when you think about it as a mom, you've gone through all these months to have this baby.
00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:38.240
Yeah, the expectations for you are are are huge.
00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:38.720
Yeah.
00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:47.919
The things and the images we see on TV, you know, we see the mom and the Pampers commercials, she's happy, the milk commercials, all those things.
00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:54.480
So we have images almost in every facet of our life that we have to, you know, that we have to live up to.
00:09:55.039 --> 00:10:05.279
But and then when you think of mental health in general and the stigma behind it, whether you're a mom dealing with postpartum or you're just a person dealing with mental health in general.
00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:18.159
When I work with people and when I do some of the other work that I do in relation to this topic, I'd often say, like, if somebody has diabetes, they have no problem talking about it and getting the medication and the help for it.
00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:22.080
If they have cancer or if they have COVID or the flu.
00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:30.320
But when it comes to us talking about what happens in our head, people are so afraid to let it be known there's something going on in there.
00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:36.559
And the stigma and the way that people often treat it makes people not want to talk about it.
00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:40.399
And not, and then when you don't want to talk about it, then you won't go get help for it.
00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:41.840
And then you won't deal with it.
00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:42.320
Right.
00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:53.519
And the other thing too is with depression that I have noticed is people have limited, they have limited availability to people who are depressed.
00:10:53.840 --> 00:10:55.919
Like people don't want to deal with depressed people.
00:10:56.159 --> 00:11:01.039
Because you'll often hear people say, Oh, they're pulling me down, uh, negative Nancy.
00:11:01.279 --> 00:11:03.600
Oh, she's draining me, or he's draining me.
00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:08.879
But depression is very real and it's very much something that people can't help.
00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:13.360
And because people shy away from it, often people won't talk about it.
00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:20.879
Other people, and I also think that it's also the uh it's also abuse too.
00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:25.759
People say it in a way that they just want attention for.
00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:26.559
That does have that.
00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:35.360
And that's and that's okay to want attention for something that's not being met by a loved one or by your spouse or by a friend.
00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:43.279
But when you throw in the depression that I'm depressed, it's almost like, oh now I really gotta pay attention to you.
00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:44.159
You see what I'm saying?
00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:44.960
Does that make sense?
00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:46.399
Am I wrong for saying that?
00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:50.720
No, no, and that's what I mean by when I say other people will say, Oh, she's so draining.
00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:52.240
Oh, let's not invite her to lunch.
00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:53.039
She's so draining.
00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:54.639
Or he he's such a downer.
00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:55.759
You know, people say that.
00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:58.720
And but what you're saying is sometimes people abuse it.
00:11:58.960 --> 00:11:59.279
They do.
00:11:59.360 --> 00:12:00.799
And so when you say it, I don't believe you.
00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:01.200
Right.
00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:01.440
Yeah.
00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:10.799
And then and they're not mo it's not so much sometimes that people are depressed, but they're not motivated or they don't feel like it, or they do want attention, so they throw it out there, you know.
00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:11.279
Yeah, they're not.
00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:15.200
Like the boy who cried, Wolf, they'll say, I'm depressed, and they'll say it over and over.
00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:25.360
But it's so hard to be able to determine when someone is seeking attention and when someone is really clinically depressed.
00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:38.720
And then I tell people too, when people have some of those behaviors and you say, Well, she's just faking, or he's just faking, or they're just doing that, then there is something still wrong if a person is is faking it.
00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:42.639
There's still some element of something mental happening with that person.
00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:50.159
And in terms of um warning signs.
00:12:50.799 --> 00:12:54.080
I'm a husband and my wife has just had a baby.
00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:56.960
What do what kind of warning signs?
00:12:57.039 --> 00:13:12.159
I know you said that she one of the warning signs is that they don't want to be with the baby or they may be detached, but what are some other warning signs that I as a husband or as a family member can look for with our our loved ones struggling with postpartum depression?
00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:15.519
So, okay, so if we're talking about postpartum, then that's one thing.
00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:19.039
And then if we're talking about postpartum psychosis, that would be another thing.
00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:30.320
But as a husband, you know, you're gonna notice if that person doesn't really want your help, or no matter what you do, it doesn't seem to be enough.
00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:46.480
If there's the constant crying, is if there's the constant sleeping, and there's no intermittent episodes of that mom being excited, like bring me the baby, bring me the baby, or you know, let me call my mom or let me call my friend or take a picture of us.
00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:59.440
If there's none of that, if there's no little moments of, you know, some joy, it's just complete disconnectedness, complete sadness, and the hopelessness, and and even the dialogue.
00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:06.480
So sometimes their dialogue is like, I'm not good at this, I'm not a good mother, I don't know how all negative.
00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:09.679
And so sometimes there's dialogue and then there's not dialogue.
00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:12.399
Sometimes there's no interaction or no communication.
00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:17.679
I've got my covers pulled over my head, I'm not hungry, I'm not gonna eat.
00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:21.840
Those are some of the signs that you that you or my family would be better without me.
00:14:22.000 --> 00:14:22.159
Absolutely.
00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:23.200
Or something like that.
00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:24.799
Those are the signs, right?
00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:38.159
Right, and it's the immediate reaction um uh to the doctor or when she goes to her next visit, tell the doctor about what's the immediate like action after that?
00:14:38.320 --> 00:14:40.879
So you don't because here's the thing too.
00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:50.639
Yeah, it's one thing as a mother, from what I understand, and you definitely correct me if I'm wrong, because I know nothing about this.
00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:55.600
Um, it's one thing to be tired and to have a little side because you just had a baby and you're exhausted.
00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:56.639
I understand that.
00:14:56.879 --> 00:15:04.879
But it's another thing to show those signs that you just named, and then the husband has to say something, and she thinks she's completely fine.
00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:05.120
Right.
00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:07.679
And at his point, he's like, Well, I'm just trying to help you.
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:10.399
Then it caused a whole argument, and then nothing gets done.
00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:11.519
You see what I'm saying?
00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:11.759
Yeah.
00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:16.879
So, what is the first action as a husband or as a family member that's looking into this situation?
00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:23.440
Yeah, I I really like that you asked that question because you said, like, what's the first sign?
00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:24.480
And what do you do?
00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:31.759
What you don't do is wait day after day, week after week, and just say maybe she'll get better.
00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:37.919
That's a real good question for a new husband and maybe soon to be father soon, one of these days.
00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:45.440
Is because that's one of the things that people when it comes to mental health, they don't take action quick enough.
00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:46.399
They just don't.
00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:54.240
And then after something happens, then everybody is, you know, overwhelmed and everybody's grief stricken.
00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:58.799
So, yeah, don't ever be afraid to say, we're not gonna wait till the next appointment.
00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:00.879
That was what you said that I thought was outstanding.
00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:06.399
No, you're not gonna wait till three weeks from now or the next month for the appointment.
00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:18.480
You're gonna get that person and you're gonna say, like, we're gonna go to the doctor now, or we're gonna go to the emergency room, or I'm gonna call your doctor and I'm gonna let her or him know what's happening.
00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:20.240
But you're if that's outstanding.
00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:20.799
You don't wait.
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:22.320
Don't just don't wait.
00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:33.679
I can tell you so many instances with you know, postpartum, and I can also tell you just in general, mental health in the years that I've been working where people didn't know what to do, didn't want to rock the vice.
00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:37.679
So they didn't do anything, and they didn't do anything, and there's tragic consequences.
00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:40.480
So that's an awesome don't wait, don't call them.
00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:48.240
Yeah, because I always think about like how many signs does a person need to see?
00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:53.120
Does the husband or the family member need to see until something is done?
00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:54.320
And you know what?
00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:58.799
And general, generally you know, because you know that person probably better than anybody else.
00:16:59.039 --> 00:16:59.360
Yes, right.
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:04.480
And generally you know, but most of the time it's like, well, I'll just wait and see what happens.
00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:08.720
People are notorious, like, I don't want to make them upset.
00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:11.440
I don't want them to get mad at me.
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:13.119
Yeah, you know, that type of thing.
00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:14.079
You can't do that.
00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:20.559
You cannot, when it comes to mental health, worry about the consequences that would affect you.
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:23.200
You have to take care of what's going on and what you see.
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:24.720
With the person, right?
00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:25.200
Right.
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:28.640
Because ultimately it will affect the family dynamic.
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:29.119
That's right.
00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:33.119
If it's not treated well, even if she healed is completely healed from it, right?
00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:35.599
Which we don't know if that's even possible.
00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:36.000
Right.
00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:40.000
Uh, as far as, you know, because you say it could go for a couple of weeks and stuff like that.
00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:40.400
Right.
00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:43.200
It can go for a couple of weeks, it can go into months and months and months.
00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:48.880
But the thing about it too is that family members are not clinicians.
00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:51.119
They are not trained to know.
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:52.480
I'm so glad you said that.
00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:55.599
Yeah, we're we're not as family members, we're not.
00:17:55.839 --> 00:18:05.119
Um, so when you see these signs and when you see this behavior, you do need to make that phone call or you do need to say to that person, no, we're we're going to the doctor.
00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:09.440
You're going and if they are resistant, then you go to the doctor, you explain.
00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:26.400
And sometimes when things, Matthew, or even beyond that, and you just can't get that person help and you see that their behavior is gonna hurt themselves, or even in postpartum hurt that baby or that child, then you have to take immediate action where you call professionals.
00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:29.759
And if that's a 9-1-1 call, then it's a 9-1-1 call.
00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:36.240
So, what's the difference between a scary, intrusive thought than a regular thought?
00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:44.160
So, one thing that's scary about thoughts in general, or they usually are internal and they're in someone else's head.
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:49.680
So, unless they say something to you, you really won't know what kind of thoughts they are having.
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:51.200
And that's where that's true.
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:54.559
You can have some things happen that you don't foresee.
00:18:54.960 --> 00:19:01.119
But to answer that question, a regular thought would be like, oh, you know, I hope I'll be a good mom.
00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:03.839
I don't think I I don't think I did that feeding right.
00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:04.160
Okay.
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:06.400
I think that maybe I'm doing something wrong.
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:06.799
Okay.
00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:10.000
An intrusive thought is something that comes in that you don't want.
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:11.839
It's a thought that does scare you.
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:14.079
It's a thought that aggravates you.
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:20.799
It's a thought that may be over and over intrusive, such as, I'm a terrible mom and I don't think I should have this baby.
00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:23.920
I'm a terrible mom and I think I don't need to be a mom.
00:19:24.079 --> 00:19:26.720
I'm a terrible mom and I don't think I should be living.
00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:28.400
I don't think I should be here.
00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:33.200
Or I'm a terrible mom because I don't like this baby.
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:35.119
Like I don't, I don't like my baby.
00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:37.920
You know, those are intrusive thoughts, those thoughts that burden.
00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:40.000
It's so scary to even hear you say that.
00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:40.640
Right.
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:41.119
Yes.
00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:43.680
And that's those are what intrusive thoughts are.
00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:50.319
And and even outside of the the uh area of pregnancy and postpartum, people have intrusive thoughts all the time.
00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:50.720
Wow.
00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:58.720
People may have intrusive thoughts that that they do wanna, you know, I want to jump in front of this vehicle or I or et cetera.
00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:00.640
So those are those are kind of intrusive things.
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.160
Take action, don't wait.
00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:10.960
One case that has brought a lot of attention to postpartum mental health, especially postpartum psychosis, is the case of Lindsay Clancy.
00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:15.920
Clancy was a mother in Massachusetts and a former labor and delivery nurse.
00:20:16.079 --> 00:20:20.960
She admitted to killing her three young children in January 2023.
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:31.920
Her defense said that she was experiencing postpartum psychosis at the time, and argued that she should be found not guilty because of her mental state.
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:37.519
Prosecutors argued that she knew exactly what she was doing and she knew it was wrong.
00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:44.799
Her 2026 trial ended without a final decision because the jury could not agree on a verdict.
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:47.599
The case is still unresolved.
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:53.759
Her attorney has since asked the judge to find her not guilty because of insanity.
00:20:53.920 --> 00:21:03.279
This is why we're having the conversation, because this is a heartbreaking case involving three young children.
00:21:03.599 --> 00:21:04.319
And Dr.
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:11.680
Sanchez and I are having this conversation so that you don't experience this heartbreaking case.
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:12.160
Dr.
00:21:12.319 --> 00:21:20.720
Sanchez, we both have heard about this Lindsay case, and uh all I think everybody is brokenhearted about it.
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:26.960
And essentially, you know, no matter how it's said or how it's discussed, everybody is affected by it.
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:27.359
Right.
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:37.839
And um there are some people who are on the fence about it, meaning they don't they don't really care about what happens to her, and there are some people who kind of wonder, well, how does this happen?
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:38.319
Yeah.
00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:45.200
And what is um postpartum um psychosis?
00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:46.000
What is that?
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:58.720
So that's when it becomes more intense than the baby blues, of course, more intense than the postpartum, which postpartum can be treated by um psychotherapy and some medication, some antidepressants.
00:21:58.960 --> 00:21:59.839
But then you have postpartum.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:13.119
Postpartum psychosis, where the mom begins to have delusions and hallucinations and more of bipolar type behavior with psychotic features.
00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:22.079
Meaning that maybe they're hearing things, they're seeing things, maybe the voices are telling them to do things, like in that case.
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:31.839
I didn't follow that case that closely, but I followed it enough to hear some of the interactions with her and her doctors and the medication.
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:33.599
So there's different things.
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:37.519
She could have had the psychosis without medication.
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:40.000
Maybe she already had a history of mental illness.
00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:48.400
And if not, sometimes different medications, if not taken correctly, can create depression and psychotic behavior as well.
00:22:49.279 --> 00:23:00.160
Do you think, just to speak about the case a little bit, do you think that the professionals, as a professional, uh, failed her as a client?
00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:02.799
Because in my mind, here's what I'm thinking.
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:04.000
All right.
00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:16.000
At what point did we, did anybody who saw her as a professional say this per this patient needs to be severely uh taken after?
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:25.599
Do you so do you think that Lindsay's therapists, all the people that had a part in her before all this happened, failed her?
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:27.680
So that's another good question.
00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:39.359
And I will say again, I didn't follow the case minute by minute, so I can really comment really sincerely on every therapist and and and the psychiatrist with her.
00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:49.599
I saw enough that I did get the feeling that we didn't take it to the level and the degree we should have taken it to.
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:57.119
And I think that she felt overwhelmed, and I think that she struggled in trying to get the help that she needed.
00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:01.440
And I do think that she struggled in trying to get people to hear her.
00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:10.880
And I think a lot of times in situations that I'm dealing with recently, and I'm presently with in a situation where I'm so frustrated.
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:30.559
I'm so frustrated with how some places, how some clinics, how some clinicians, because of probably their caseload or whatever, can dispense medication, but they're not getting the psychotherapeutic face-to-face understanding that they need.
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:49.039
And I'm dealing in a situation now that's extremely tra tragic because when people go to the clinics, to the emergency rooms, and when family members say to these places they are not acting as themselves.
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:54.079
We are very worried about them taking their life or the life of someone else.
00:24:54.559 --> 00:25:06.960
When the family members go and they're seen and they ask the person, because you know when people go in there, when the when the patient comes in, there's a series of questions that you ask.
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:09.279
But it's not just about the piece of paper and those questions.
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:16.400
You have to look at them, you have to notice what we call their affect, their behavior, their their interaction with you.
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:22.079
And I'm gonna tell you, Matthew, there are times when people in those places say, Oh, I think they're okay.
00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:24.319
They can go, they'll be all right.
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:26.240
And it's far beyond that.
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:27.359
It's far beyond that.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:34.480
People have to pay more attention, and continuity of care is of the utmost importance.
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:43.440
We have to make sure that people are getting the medication the way they are supposed to get the medication, and that they are followed up upon.
00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:43.759
Yeah.
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:55.599
And that when they go to ERs and when families cry out that people don't have a 10 item questionnaire to check off and then let the person go.
00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:04.079
Because that I I also feel like that something went wrong.
00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:04.799
Absolutely.
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:07.200
And somebody did not pay attention.
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:07.680
Right.
00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:12.319
Well, there were just too many people based on what you were asking me.
00:26:13.119 --> 00:26:28.160
There were too many people involved with her for no one to say, oh no, no, no, no, admit, admit her right away and take this as seriously as possible.
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:36.799
And I think that people get so inundated in their work and in their patience that it's very easy to hindsight is 2020.
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:37.200
Right.
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:45.440
But I think that what you're asking, and I agree, people are going to be really angry, and people are really angry because those little babies were killed.
00:26:45.680 --> 00:26:49.200
And people, our hearts go out to children who can't help themselves.
00:26:49.440 --> 00:26:51.680
So it's very easy to be angry with her.
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:52.880
It's very easy to hate.
00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:54.319
It's very easy to hate her.
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:55.680
It's very easy to look at us with her.
00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:59.519
We have to acknowledge what drove her to that.
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:01.839
And that's the problem with mental health.
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:18.960
People don't, people look at you, and if you look like you're okay, if you look like you come from a good home, if you look like you have money, if you're not on the streets walking with an army jacket on, if you were a nurse, or if you were a teacher, or if you were, you know, then how could you do this?
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:21.279
People will say, Oh, yeah, we understand mental health.
00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:23.039
We understand she was mentally ill.
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:25.680
But then they'll come back behind and say, But how could she?
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:28.079
So you don't understand if you're asking that.
00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:33.680
Like delusions and psychosis and all of those things are real.
00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:44.079
People will say, I thought that that person was gonna kill me, or I thought that person was a robot, or I thought when they say that, it's a real feeling for them.
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:45.440
It's a real feeling for them.
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.160
But if they look normal to you, you don't want to buy it.
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:55.359
When when we hear the phrase losing touch with reality, what does that look like?
00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:03.039
You know, Matthew, that can look like a lot of different things for a lot of different people in a lot of different situations.
00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:10.960
But when a person loses touch with reality, they may not know you or they may know you.
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:23.440
They could be sitting, I could be sitting across from you right now, and I could be thinking, Matthew is going to try to take something from me before I leave, and I'm going to have to do something to him so that he doesn't hurt me.
00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:31.759
It's a it's a behavior that is outside of the norm for that person or outside of what we would consider normal behavior.
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:40.960
It's when, like you said, that person begins to have intrusive thoughts and non and beliefs that are are that are not normal, beliefs that are not real.
00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:44.319
When you say, what is it like when they're not in reality?
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:47.759
Could Matthew be an android?
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:48.400
No.
00:28:48.960 --> 00:28:51.920
Could there be people coming in to get us?
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:55.920
Could the government be coming in to take over our land?
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:03.119
You know, it's being in a place of confusion and abnormalcy.
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:19.920
Are there because and and I keep I keep wanting to ask you about the the warning signs because you're right, so many people miss um these warning signs because they think, oh, they'll just get over it, yeah, or it'll just pass.
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:28.640
Are there warning signs when it comes to somebody struggling with postpartum psychosis that um are shown?
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:42.480
Because in my in my thought process, I'm thinking if they're struggling with postpartum psychosis, they could look very normal on the outside, but not be very normal in the inside.
00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:43.599
Is that correct?
00:29:44.000 --> 00:30:03.759
You can look normal on the outside, but I will say this, especially for people who are around their family or their significant other or their friends, you you kind of know something is wrong is very out of sorts.
00:30:03.839 --> 00:30:15.440
And I have talked to families who have had family members that have had postpartum psychosis and psychosis, or not postpartum psychosis, postpartum depression, but have had psychosis.
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:19.039
And they will say, I knew something was wrong.
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:22.720
I mean, she was she was saying all these strange things.
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:26.480
She was in the middle of the night sitting outside on the porch.
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:40.240
Just for no reason, right, and not talking, or she was walking down the street with her house coat on, or he was, you know, in the backyard just looking over the fence and talking to himself.
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:46.640
Or I walked in the room and they were talking to someone, or they were very agitated.
00:30:46.720 --> 00:30:50.319
A lot of times people when they're having mental health crisis, they'll get very irritable.
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:53.039
But are there warning signs before those signs?
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:54.400
Or they're like small ones.
00:30:54.480 --> 00:31:00.400
So maybe they dress different, maybe they're um, I don't know, like maybe something small is good.
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:01.119
Are they warning signs?
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:04.400
Like you're saying, it's not gonna just all of a sudden be accused.
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:04.880
Right.
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:09.119
You can start to see the signs of the person, like I said, a little bit of irritability.
00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:19.359
Okay, a little bit of disconnectedness, a little bit of, I don't want to talk so much, a little bit of sleeping too much, a little bit of awkwardness.
00:31:19.519 --> 00:31:26.079
And it will typically start off a little at a time and it'll get more intense as time goes by.
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:30.880
But people start to see it, and at first they just think, oh, they might be mad about something.
00:31:31.039 --> 00:31:32.000
But you know what?
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:41.599
When you see it go in one day, Matthew, and then you see they're still acting like that the second day, and then you see the third and fourth day, isn't it?
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:51.119
When you see these behaviors of being up in the middle of the night, the racing thoughts, fast talking, rapid speech.
00:31:51.599 --> 00:32:00.079
Uh, a lot of times people that are going through Christ, they'll have rapid speech or they'll have disconnected speech or they'll have sentences that don't connect and don't make sense.
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:03.200
And then when you don't understand, but it makes so much sense to them.
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:03.759
Exactly.
00:32:03.920 --> 00:32:07.680
And when when you don't understand what they're saying, then they get really irritated with you.
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:13.519
When you start to see that the first and the second day, and then again, you don't want to wait a week or two weeks.
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:14.000
Right.
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:17.839
When you know that person, and you know that they don't typically act that way.
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:28.880
You know, this is just such a uh a topic that is so um needed in um in um the world right now.
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:39.359
And I guess part of um the frustration for me as a person who loves people, right?
00:32:39.759 --> 00:33:10.559
And you touched on it when you talked about the Lindsay case, um, is that we're dealing with a system that is um designed to treat people with mental health, with postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis and psychosis without postpartum, all these things, but we're also that same system is not, it seems to be that they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing.
00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:24.400
Right, and so how does a family member treat their loved one if the system that is designed to help them mentally is broken?
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:31.920
You know, I'm happy you asked that question too, because you have to keep pushing it, you have to keep pushing the envelope.
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:34.240
You cannot stop, you have to keep pushing it.
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:37.759
Because if you don't, a tragedy can happen and they have happened.
00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:41.200
So when you go to the emergency room, they say they're okay.
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:44.000
You demand to see someone else.
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:47.200
If they tell you you can go and you leave, you go right back there.
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:48.720
You go to another hospital.
00:33:48.960 --> 00:33:51.519
Um, you don't stop, you continue to push.
00:33:51.680 --> 00:34:07.680
There are some things in place, and I I think some of them in our city are are somewhat recent, but you can go to to the judge in your community that's the um trying to think of the judge, uh that what is that judge called?
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:11.840
Um I don't know, it's not the circuit court judge.
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:14.239
Well, let's just see.
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:22.559
Yeah, well, okay, so you go to the court and there is a judge that is involved in having people involuntarily admitted.
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:39.199
So you can do that because a lot of times people with mental health won't go, but you can go to the community judge and you can ask for that family member or loved one based on the things that you think that they are danger to themselves or others, and you can have them involuntary committed so they could be assessed.
00:34:39.599 --> 00:34:57.360
And also in our community, you can call 911 and sometimes, well, if it's a mental health issue, the correspondent, the core, it's called corresponder, and that's a person and a police person trained in mental health that will come out and do an assessment as well, and then they can have them admit it.
00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:10.079
So there are some ways around it, yes, and those some of those are more recent um uh things that have been put into place, but I would say don't ever take no, don't ever take they're okay for an answer.
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:30.559
Go from place to place, let your voice be heard, make a little situation in there if you have to, but don't let people tell you because I'm gonna tell you too, just because somebody is working in a mental health facility doesn't mean that they are in tune to mental health or that they care about it.
00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:31.760
No, yes, absolutely.
00:35:32.079 --> 00:35:42.079
Because I took someone years ago to um a hospital because the person was having psychosis and they were walking down the street backwards and they were naked.
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:50.719
And when I took this person to the emergency room, I heard the nurse make a joke to the EMT.
00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:55.039
Oh, he was walking down the street naked.
00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:57.840
That happens in Alabama all the time.
00:35:58.159 --> 00:35:59.440
And it's so insensitive.
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:04.000
Yes, and I had to go to a place I didn't want to go to.
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:04.480
Right.
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:06.880
Because I couldn't believe the insensitivity.
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:15.360
If you want to make a joke about it, if you have to, if you're that insensitive dude in the little corner of the but they actually did it out loud where it could be heard.
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:19.280
So it's not just on the street or with the layperson.
00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:26.400
Sometimes people in professional places don't understand the pain of mental health in their family.
00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:33.360
It baffles me that why work in a career to help people and not give them any help?
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:35.360
It just makes me angry.
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:36.400
I don't know why.
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:37.840
You angry, me too.
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:40.559
It makes me say why even get in the field.
00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:41.840
It makes me furious.
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:43.360
That money can't be that good.
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:45.599
I'm just it makes no, it isn't.
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:59.199
And it makes me furious because I've taken so many of my own patients and clients to different places and watched the dismissiveness of the of the professional people.
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:08.159
Um, and so if I see it and family members deal with it, you know, if if I'm calling me crazy, I'm not crazy.
00:37:08.320 --> 00:37:09.599
I know, I know what I saw.
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:23.920
Yeah, and if I have a hard time dealing with people in those situations, you can imagine family members who are pleading to people to help them because of that individual that they love is having psychotic behaviors and they're afraid for them.
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:33.199
Are we are we screening mothers enough after they have their babies, or are we just focused on the baby's health?
00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:37.599
You know, there are certain screenings that are done.
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:43.280
There's certain screenings that are done, like when the mothers have their visits after they have their babies.
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:44.000
Okay.
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:47.280
And those are self-reporting questioners.
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:47.599
Okay.
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:48.719
And that's good.
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:55.119
But then again, you have moms who are afraid to show and answer these things.
00:37:55.280 --> 00:38:08.239
Just like the doctor that I that I heard um speaking, she didn't answer her depression scale correctly because she didn't want anyone to think that she was um having those feelings or feeling depressed.
00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:29.440
So, although those screenings are in place, I think that it's so important for women that are beginning to go through those um issues of depression to have access to therapists to do a more intense interaction rather than just them filling out a depression scale.
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:31.440
And um, okay, what are some things?
00:38:31.519 --> 00:38:47.360
Because I'm just thinking about um all the aspects of this, what are some things that a um a mother who's struggling with post-partum depression should never hear from her family or her husband?
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:49.119
What's wrong with you?
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:51.519
Your baby is healthy.
00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:53.679
You should be so happy.
00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:55.199
Why are you so moody?
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:57.840
Well, you've been acting like this for such a long time.
00:38:58.239 --> 00:38:59.840
Oh, I don't know what's wrong with you.
00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:01.119
I just don't get it.
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:04.079
Those types, that type of of And why?
00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:04.400
Why?
00:39:04.559 --> 00:39:06.719
Because that seems to be so normal now.
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:12.079
I mean, these seems to be that we're so out of touch with our own loved ones that we don't even see that this is something going on.
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:14.320
Why is that why is that not something we should say?
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:16.159
Because what are they thinking in their head?
00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:20.159
Well, it's not motivating them, it's increasing their feelings of guilt.
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:28.480
And most importantly, it is increasing their need to stay reclusive and keep the thoughts in their head quiet.
00:39:29.119 --> 00:39:34.480
I'm not gonna, since everybody thinks that I'm wrong, I'm not gonna tell anybody that I'm having these depressed thoughts.
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:46.320
And then when something bigger happens or that person does something that's more explosive, everybody's shocked, but they don't want to tell anyone because their fear of being judged.
00:39:47.360 --> 00:39:51.360
And it's difficult because because a father goes through a lot too when there's a baby.
00:39:51.679 --> 00:40:01.119
He's gonna be up at night, you know, he's gonna be um, he doesn't have the same access to his to his loved one that he had before, to his wife or to his girlfriend.
00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:07.199
He things have changed, things change dramatically, so it's difficult for that for that partner also.
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:07.679
Yeah.
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:20.639
But that burden, and not burden because you have a child, but the burden of your behavior to make everybody happy is a lot for a person who's already dealing with mental health issues.
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:21.119
Yeah.
00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:31.840
Does having some kind of spiritual practice help, like going to church every Sunday and reading your Bible or whatever people believe in?
00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:33.039
Does that help?
00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:35.840
Have you seen that help with the cases that you've seen?
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:44.079
Or you know, I always tell the people that come to see me in your circle of life, there are certain things that you do need.
00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:54.960
Of course, you need your survival, you need to have food to eat, you need to have your finances, you need to have your psychosocial network, which is your family, your loved ones.
00:40:55.119 --> 00:40:56.320
You need to have their support.
00:40:56.400 --> 00:41:03.119
Yeah, you need to have your goals of what you want and what your intentions in the future are, but you also have to have that spiritual part.
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:07.599
You have to have that place you go to where you feel peace.
00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:17.360
That place whether, you know, for me, I'm a Christian, so I need to be able to go to church and bond with other people, or I need to be able to go to a place in prayer.
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:21.760
I need to have a place where I have a belief system that things will get better.
00:41:21.920 --> 00:41:22.079
Right.
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:32.159
And that's in that circle of life, that you have that spiritual part, as you say, because that gives you some hope beyond just people, people and humans.
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:38.960
Right when you have that extra spiritual piece, that piece where you go and you meditate and you find yourself.
00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:48.719
Yeah, I love that because I think that's one of the topics that are not talked about enough in this case, in this era of post-prompt depression that we're talking about.
00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:58.719
So um highly is that we're talking about the symptoms and signs, we're not talking about the spiritual aspect of it and how we can prevent it, you know, with certain things.
00:41:58.960 --> 00:41:59.119
Right.
00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:04.639
Um because you talk about the medication, right, and you talk about the therapy, and you talk about the relationships.
00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:11.519
We got to talk about your spiritual, your inward thoughts, your inward, inward beliefs.
00:42:11.679 --> 00:42:17.440
So where do you go to for those moments when you feel hopeless, right, where people can't touch.
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:17.920
Right.
00:42:18.079 --> 00:42:25.440
What are some other treatments or um things that help with post-proum depression?
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:38.800
Okay, so you know I talked about um psychotherapy, cognitive behavioral therapy to help people change the way they're thinking, help them with those intrusive thoughts you were talking about.
00:42:39.119 --> 00:42:44.639
And then there's the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor, also known as SSRIs.
00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:46.079
Those are like antidepressants.
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:46.480
Okay.
00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:52.559
Those help with the person's uh levels of serotonin and dopamine, those feel-good hormones.
00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:57.920
So those are the typical treatments for postpartum depression.
00:42:58.000 --> 00:43:04.719
Um, and then, you know, of course, for psychosis, there'd be much more and intensive should be in inpatient treatment.
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:18.000
Um, one of the things that I think too is really good is when you have someone, whether they're in the baby blues or they're in postpartum, that they I know they just had a baby, but getting them to get up and do little subtle workouts.
00:43:18.400 --> 00:43:21.599
There are exercises you can do sitting down, movement.
00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:25.440
I always say that if you move your body, you'll move your mind.
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:27.360
So I think that's another component to be able to do that.
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:28.800
Going out for a walk, is that Marvel?
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:30.320
Yeah, going out in the parking lot.
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:31.039
Okay, I love that.
00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:40.880
I love that you're that um you're encouraging family members or the husband to be uh to come up with ideas for them to start moving and being out and be interactive.
00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:41.679
Okay, I love that.
00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:54.239
And that's that was one of the things I did when I after I had my first child that was living in Germany, and you know, I had a beautiful little buggy, a little German buggy that I'd bought, looked like a little baby doll buggy from the 60s, kind of, and put him in there.
00:43:54.320 --> 00:43:59.599
And my husband and I went walking through the little village with him, got me out, got the baby.
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:02.800
I mean, so it's just small stuff like that that helps too.
00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:04.000
And start off with that.
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:05.840
Start off with those little things.
00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:13.840
Can a woman fully recover from postpartum depression or postpartum psychosis?
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:14.639
Yes.
00:44:14.880 --> 00:44:15.119
Yes.
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:20.400
If they have treatment, it's not, it's not a death sentence.
00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:23.360
It's not a never get better, you know?
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:31.119
Um with treatment and with intervention, most things you can get better.
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:33.440
When I say most things, what do you mean?
00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:35.039
Well, I mean like most things in life.
00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:35.440
Okay, okay.
00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:43.599
I mean like, say, for example, people, it used to be years ago, if a person was diagnosed with like schizophrenia, it was like, oh, there's no hope for that person.
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:46.400
Let's put them in a mental health facility.
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:56.239
But now, because of medications and understanding mental health, people with those very intense psychotic disorders can live a normal life.
00:44:56.960 --> 00:44:59.760
It's just education is the key.
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:08.960
Education is the key for families, education is the key for the person that has the disorder, and compliance to treatment for the things they need.
00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:21.599
And the way that you often get compliance is when that person, when the family is educated, when the person's educated, and when that person has family support.
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:22.719
That's huge.
00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:29.840
Yeah, the thing that just jumped in my spirit when you said that is the mother should be the last person to ask for help.
00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:35.599
You as the family or the husband, when you see a sign, don't neglect it.
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:36.400
Don't neglect it.
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:38.159
Don't think it's just gonna pass off.
00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:39.199
That's right.
00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:42.480
And it's like you said, acceptance.
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:43.679
Accept that person.
00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:47.920
Don't just say, Oh, I don't know why she's acting like that, or this is like we're supposed to be so happy.
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:51.440
Accept where they are, and then you can help them.
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:57.840
You know, I mean, I think that's the thing that's most important is like I said earlier, you know that person.
00:45:58.159 --> 00:45:58.960
You know them.
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:02.800
So you know when they're when their behavior is way out of the realm.
00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:03.280
Yeah.
00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:05.599
But try not to get agitated by it.
00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:14.239
Well, I guess that's a good question too, because how do I, as the husband, new dad, right?
00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:23.920
Just hypothetical speaking, um, how do I regulate my emotions seeing my wife act so strangely?
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:34.320
You know, how do I, how do I regulate my emotions enough to go and get her help and not be upset or not be irritated or not be, that makes sense?
00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:34.800
Yes.
00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:36.000
And that's another good question.
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:38.239
You're making me really think, and I like that.
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:47.840
You know, so many times we do things, hindsight, and what comes to my mind when you say that is preventive, preventive, preventive.
00:46:48.159 --> 00:47:10.639
When you know you're going to have a baby and you're gonna bring a child into the world, it is so important for mom and dad to have that counseling during that, either before they decide to have children or in that stage of pregnancy for for dad and mom to go to counseling so that they can someone can tell them this is what you should expect.
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:12.159
This is what may happen.
00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:15.519
If this happens, you can do this, this, or this.
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:19.920
If this happens, you know, before you don't want to wait until take precautions happen.
00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:21.840
Yeah, be proactive.
00:47:22.000 --> 00:47:28.880
If you want to have a baby and you want to bring a child in the world, sometimes, you know, the best way to have children, the best way is if you plan it.
00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:30.480
It doesn't always happen that way.
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:51.840
And so if it's not planned, or whether it's planned, seek out professional so that you'll know what to do, so that so that your partner will understand you better and not be, you know, not deflect because they don't understand and not get their feelings hurt because they can think that maybe it's something that I did, you know.
00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:58.639
Maybe maybe my person now doesn't want to be a mom, and I don't like that, you know, as opposed to what can I do to help?
00:47:58.719 --> 00:47:59.840
What's happening here?
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:01.679
Okay, Dr.
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:24.079
Sanchez, there's a mother right now who's watching and um she's having scary thoughts, and she's scared that if she says something, then people will think she's a bad mom and they will say other things that will eventually hurt her.
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:32.239
What are you, as a somebody who's been in the mental health field for 30 years now, saying to her?
00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:43.840
I would beg her to call the 1-800 crisis line for maternal support uh for women that are going through postpartum.
00:48:44.719 --> 00:48:46.960
Call that 1-800 hotline.
00:48:48.159 --> 00:48:49.840
Talk to somebody you really trust.
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:54.559
If you have a really good friend, if you have somebody at your church.
00:48:55.679 --> 00:49:06.639
Um sometimes if you go through community care and you look for a therapist, it's hard sometimes because they'll say, sorry, we're not taking anyone.
00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:09.360
But don't stop calling.
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:13.199
Call a mental health therapist and don't just say, I want an appointment.
00:49:13.440 --> 00:49:18.639
Say I'm going through a postpartum crisis and I need help.
00:49:18.960 --> 00:49:21.360
Because I don't know of any therapist that would turn that.
00:49:21.760 --> 00:49:22.239
I wouldn't.
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:26.480
I would immediately sometimes I'm overwhelmed because I'm I'm booked out.
00:49:26.800 --> 00:49:35.039
But when someone calls and says I'm having a crisis, if I can't get them uh in my office, I'll get them somewhere.
00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:35.360
Okay.
00:49:35.519 --> 00:49:43.280
But most times, to be honest with you, even if I'm overloaded and they say they're having a crisis, even if I'm only seeing them for that day, I'm going to see them.
00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:46.960
I'm not going to let them call and have them go unanswered.
00:49:47.199 --> 00:49:56.320
Um, but sometimes people will call and they won't leave a message or, you know, leave the message, say what's really happening.
00:49:56.559 --> 00:50:03.360
Don't just say, hey, I'm looking for a therapist because someone's gonna put you on a waiting list or say what you need to say.
00:50:03.599 --> 00:50:09.199
But if you really are embarrassed, then call those hotline numbers and they'll put you in touch with somebody right away.
00:50:09.519 --> 00:50:11.519
There are units that will come out to people.
00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:12.239
Well, Dr.
00:50:12.400 --> 00:50:15.199
Sanchez, I'm so glad that we had this conversation.
00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:27.360
And um, man, I just pray that if anybody is struggling, uh any mother is struggling that um she goes goes get help.
00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:30.719
And you know something else, Matthew, let me say this because I didn't say it earlier.
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:35.519
One thing that mothers directly to the mom, as you said, what would I say to them?
00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:39.039
They need to understand it's not it's not that unusual.
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:44.960
One out of seven women have postpartum depression.
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:52.000
10 to 15 percent of women globally experience postpartum depression.
00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:54.800
So it's nothing to be ashamed of.
00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:57.360
Try to tell your closest partner.
00:50:57.599 --> 00:51:05.920
If you feel like you're burdening them, call the 1-800 number, tell your most intimate friend, tell someone at your church.
00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:12.000
I don't care if you tell a stranger, but tell somebody because you can get the help you need.
00:51:12.320 --> 00:51:14.400
You'll get the help you need and you'll have a brighter day.
00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:18.000
But when you're depressed, it doesn't seem like anything in the world is gonna matter.
00:51:18.079 --> 00:51:28.400
But I'm telling you, if you get the psychotherapy, if you need medication and you get that, if you get your support from your family and friends, the sun will come out tomorrow.
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:30.480
That's so good.
00:51:30.719 --> 00:51:31.920
That's so good.
00:51:32.159 --> 00:51:32.960
Thank you, Dr.
00:51:33.039 --> 00:51:33.599
Sanchez.
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:35.679
You're welcome, Matthew, always.
00:51:36.000 --> 00:51:39.840
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