SELLEST OSAST
What happens when your greatest strength in Law Enforcement isn’t force, but the power of conversation?
Retired Police Officer, SWAT Team Member, and veteran crisis negotiator Patty McConnell joins The Crisis Cop, Pat Doering, to reflect on her decades-long journey breaking barriers and saving lives across Northern Illinois. Patty’s unique path - from the only woman on her department to a central figure training the next generation - reveals how empathy, curiosity, and active listening are true superpowers at the heart of crisis negotiation.
Ready to discover why the right words can be mightier than any weapon, and how understanding and human connection can change - maybe even save - a life? It’s all here in this episode of The Crisis Cop Podcast.
Don’t forget to Like, Subscribe, and Share this episode of The Crisis Cop Podcast on The 2GuysTalking Podcast Network via WhatCopsWatch.Com…
The Crisis Cop Podcast Podcast Links Bar:
Connect with The Host!
Subscribe to This Podcast Now!
Click Here for More Ways to Subscribe and Listen to this Podcast!
Rate this podcast on Apple Podcasts.
The Ultimate success for every podcaster is FEEDBACK!
Not an Apple Podcasts user? No problem! Be sure to check out any of the other many growing podcast directories online to find this and many other podcasts on The 2GuysTalking Podcast Network!
This program is one of the many parts of The WhatCopsWatch.Com effort. Check out more great law enforcement-based content now!
The Light Bulb Moments for This Episode of The Crisis Cop Podcast:
1. Curiosity is the Cornerstone of Effective Negotiation
The discussion explored the idea that curiosity, rather than judgment, is a fundamental trait for successful crisis negotiators. The conversation highlighted that by being genuinely interested in understanding why a person is in crisis—whether due to criminal behavior or suicidal ideation—negotiators can foster real conversations that drive connection and progress. This shift from a judgmental mindset, essential on patrol for officer safety, to a curious one during negotiations is a critical and often challenging transition for police officers entering this specialized discipline 14:03.
2. Active Listening Trumps "Silver Tongue"
One concept discussed was the misconception that the best negotiators are those who are great talkers with a "silver tongue." Instead, active listening emerged as a key theme, with several points raised about the importance of emotion labeling and the power of silence or effective pauses. These tools help people in crisis feel heard and understood—sometimes enabling them to express emotions or details they've never verbalized before. The conversation emphasized that truly listening, rather than focusing on what to say, often unlocks the best results in high-stakes situations 21:11.
3. Resilience and Debriefing Combat Cumulative Trauma
A key theme that emerged was that negotiators and first responders must recognize and address cumulative trauma. The discussion highlighted the phenomenon of secondary traumatic stress—where hearing and witnessing repeated traumatic stories impacts responders' mental health—and the necessity of psychological resilience. Debriefings, peer support, and an evolving cultural openness toward mental health in policing were discussed as vital tools for well-being. Understanding this dynamic is crucial for law enforcement leaders and practitioners alike in sustaining long-term effectiveness and personal health 54:02.
TTwo Great Ways This Episode of The Crisis Cop Podcast:
We are proud to provide you both a dedicated AUDIO and VIDEO presentation for this program!
To Listen Now: Hit the play button in the player on this page or hit the Subscribe button on your favorite Podcast Directory to instantly get these episodes when they release!
To Watch Now: Visit this program on YouTube, or hit the window located below to see the hosts, guests and light bulb moments that make this program special!
https://youtu.be/8mF1yGLz_6Q
The Detailed Shownotes for This Episode of The Crisis Cop Podcast:
Looking for the detailed links, information and references used inside this episode? Read on below to find them all and remember to reach out to ask if there's something else you'd like to see from this episode!
Timestamps for This Episode of The Crisis Cop Podcast:
00:00 Feeling like Benjamin Button
10:01 The influence of Harvey Schlossberg
13:04 Encouraging students to speak naturally
17:33 Negotiation mindset shift
24:44 Using silence in interrogation
31:15 Handling sensitive third-party situations
35:10 Join Two Guys Talking: Be a Reviewer
41:07 Comforting a distraught friend
49:34 Night shift stakeout experience
52:56 Psychological resilience in SWAT teams
59:37 Supporting teammates and recognizing trauma
01:06:57 Advice for aspiring law enforcement officers
01:08:09 Practicing crisis communication skills
01:13:48 Misconceptions about negotiation tactics
01:19:33 Podcast closing and call to action
Questions Answered Inside This Episode of The Crisis Cop Podcast:
The conversation focused on the evolution of career paths in law enforcement, especially for women in the late 1970s. What challenges and opportunities were discussed regarding being one of the few women in policing at that time?
One concept discussed was the dual-track nature of police work: investigative versus tactical (SWAT/negotiations). How did these different tracks shape professional development and skill sets?
A key theme that emerged was the importance of curiosity and genuine interest in others for effective negotiations. How can cultivating curiosity improve outcomes in high-stress crisis situations?
The discussion explored the process of transitioning from street patrol to becoming a crisis negotiator. What fears and misconceptions did new negotiators tend to have, and how were these addressed?
Several points were raised, including the idea that being a good negotiator is more about listening than talking. What active listening skills were highlighted, and how can they be applied both in law enforcement and everyday life?
The episode described a critical incident where assumptions about an individual’s concerns (e.g., fear of more medical bills) affected negotiation tactics. How can law enforcement better gather and utilize intelligence to avoid missteps?
One concept discussed was the use of emotion labeling and effective pauses as negotiation techniques. Why are these approaches particularly effective in crisis negotiation scenarios?
A key theme that emerged was the impact of cumulative trauma and the need for psychological resilience in policing. What strategies were suggested for managing trauma and stress both individually and organizationally?
The discussion explored the “triad of command” model during critical incidents. How does integrating incident, tactical, and negotiations leadership improve decision-making and outcomes?
Several points were raised about advice for future negotiators, including pursuing diverse education and practicing skills outside traditional law enforcement roles. What benefits are associated with broadening one’s background, and how can prospective negotiators prepare for the unique demands of the field?
Links from this Episode:
-- The People Mentioned:
Harvey Schlossberg - Be Sure toCheck Out Harvey's Wife's Episode of The Crisis Cop!
Wikipedia – Harvey Schlossberg
Gary McDougall - Be Sure to Check Out Gary's Episode of The Crisis Cop!
LinkedIn – Gary McDougall
(Former Calgary Police, crisis negotiations instructor and speaker.)
Kevin Briggs
Wikipedia – Kevin Briggs
(Known as "The Guardian of the Golden Gate Bridge" for his suicide prevention work.)
Gary Noesner - Be Sure to Check Out Gary's Episode of The Crisis Cop!
Gary Noesner Official Website
(Retired FBI negotiator, author of "Stalling for Time")
Harry Drucker
Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department Bio
(Public information officer, often cited for negotiation expertise.)
Deb McMahon
LinkedIn – Deb McMahon
(Crisis negotiation trainer and speaker.)
Joni Birkenheier
LinkedIn – Joni Birkenheier
(Law enforcement negotiations team leader in Illinois.)
Mike Vohling
Reference: Law enforcement professional in Illinois (limited public information)
(Mentioned as a negotiator and team leader with NIPAS.)
Waymond Mullins
Amazon – Books by Waymond C. Mullins
(Author of "Crisis Negotiations: Managing Critical Incidents and Hostage Situations in Law Enforcement and Corrections")
Michael McMahan
Amazon – Crisis Negotiations: Managing Critical Incidents and Hostage Situations in Law Enforcement and Corrections
(Co-author on premier negotiations textbook)
Robert Cialdini
Official Website – Robert Cialdini
(Author of "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion")
Chris Voss
Official Website – Chris Voss
(Former FBI negotiator, author of "Never Split the Difference")
Malcolm Gladwell
Official Website – Malcolm Gladwell
(Author of "Talking to Strangers" and other bestselling books)
Bessel van der Kolk
Official Website – Bessel van der Kolk, M.D.
(Author of "The Body Keeps the Score")
-- The Books & Authors Mentioned:
The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini
Talking to Strangers by Malcolm Gladwell
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk
Crisis Negotiation: Managing Critical Incidents and Hostage Situations in Law Enforcement and Corrections by Michael McMains
-- Get All of Pat's Books on Amazon Now!:
Crisis Cops: The Evolution of Crisis Negotiation in America
Crisis Cop 2: More Stories from the Front Lines of Crisis Negotiation
...
Retired Police Officer, SWAT Team Member, and veteran crisis negotiator Patty McConnell joins The Crisis Cop, Pat Doering, to reflect on her decades-long journey breaking barriers and saving lives across Northern Illinois. Patty’s unique path - from the only woman on her department to a central figure training the next generation - reveals how empathy, curiosity, and active listening are true superpowers at the heart of crisis negotiation.
Ready to discover why the right words can be mightier than any weapon, and how understanding and human connection can change - maybe even save - a life? It’s all here in this episode of The Crisis Cop Podcast.
Don’t forget to Like, Subscribe, and Share this episode of The Crisis Cop Podcast on The 2GuysTalking Podcast Network via WhatCopsWatch.Com…
The Crisis Cop Podcast Podcast Links Bar:
Connect with The Host!
Subscribe to This Podcast Now!
Click Here for More Ways to Subscribe and Listen to this Podcast!
Rate this podcast on Apple Podcasts.
The Ultimate success for every podcaster is FEEDBACK!
Not an Apple Podcasts user? No problem! Be sure to check out any of the other many growing podcast directories online to find this and many other podcasts on The 2GuysTalking Podcast Network!
This program is one of the many parts of The WhatCopsWatch.Com effort. Check out more great law enforcement-based content now!
The Light Bulb Moments for This Episode of The Crisis Cop Podcast:
1. Curiosity is the Cornerstone of Effective Negotiation
The discussion explored the idea that curiosity, rather than judgment, is a fundamental trait for successful crisis negotiators. The conversation highlighted that by being genuinely interested in understanding why a person is in crisis—whether due to criminal behavior or suicidal ideation—negotiators can foster real conversations that drive connection and progress. This shift from a judgmental mindset, essential on patrol for officer safety, to a curious one during negotiations is a critical and often challenging transition for police officers entering this specialized discipline 14:03.
2. Active Listening Trumps "Silver Tongue"
One concept discussed was the misconception that the best negotiators are those who are great talkers with a "silver tongue." Instead, active listening emerged as a key theme, with several points raised about the importance of emotion labeling and the power of silence or effective pauses. These tools help people in crisis feel heard and understood—sometimes enabling them to express emotions or details they've never verbalized before. The conversation emphasized that truly listening, rather than focusing on what to say, often unlocks the best results in high-stakes situations 21:11.
3. Resilience and Debriefing Combat Cumulative Trauma
A key theme that emerged was that negotiators and first responders must recognize and address cumulative trauma. The discussion highlighted the phenomenon of secondary traumatic stress—where hearing and witnessing repeated traumatic stories impacts responders' mental health—and the necessity of psychological resilience. Debriefings, peer support, and an evolving cultural openness toward mental health in policing were discussed as vital tools for well-being. Understanding this dynamic is crucial for law enforcement leaders and practitioners alike in sustaining long-term effectiveness and personal health 54:02.
TTwo Great Ways This Episode of The Crisis Cop Podcast:
We are proud to provide you both a dedicated AUDIO and VIDEO presentation for this program!
To Listen Now: Hit the play button in the player on this page or hit the Subscribe button on your favorite Podcast Directory to instantly get these episodes when they release!
To Watch Now: Visit this program on YouTube, or hit the window located below to see the hosts, guests and light bulb moments that make this program special!
https://youtu.be/8mF1yGLz_6Q
The Detailed Shownotes for This Episode of The Crisis Cop Podcast:
Looking for the detailed links, information and references used inside this episode? Read on below to find them all and remember to reach out to ask if there's something else you'd like to see from this episode!
Timestamps for This Episode of The Crisis Cop Podcast:
00:00 Feeling like Benjamin Button
10:01 The influence of Harvey Schlossberg
13:04 Encouraging students to speak naturally
17:33 Negotiation mindset shift
24:44 Using silence in interrogation
31:15 Handling sensitive third-party situations
35:10 Join Two Guys Talking: Be a Reviewer
41:07 Comforting a distraught friend
49:34 Night shift stakeout experience
52:56 Psychological resilience in SWAT teams
59:37 Supporting teammates and recognizing trauma
01:06:57 Advice for aspiring law enforcement officers
01:08:09 Practicing crisis communication skills
01:13:48 Misconceptions about negotiation tactics
01:19:33 Podcast closing and call to action
Questions Answered Inside This Episode of The Crisis Cop Podcast:
The conversation focused on the evolution of career paths in law enforcement, especially for women in the late 1970s. What challenges and opportunities were discussed regarding being one of the few women in policing at that time?
One concept discussed was the dual-track nature of police work: investigative versus tactical (SWAT/negotiations). How did these different tracks shape professional development and skill sets?
A key theme that emerged was the importance of curiosity and genuine interest in others for effective negotiations. How can cultivating curiosity improve outcomes in high-stress crisis situations?
The discussion explored the process of transitioning from street patrol to becoming a crisis negotiator. What fears and misconceptions did new negotiators tend to have, and how were these addressed?
Several points were raised, including the idea that being a good negotiator is more about listening than talking. What active listening skills were highlighted, and how can they be applied both in law enforcement and everyday life?
The episode described a critical incident where assumptions about an individual’s concerns (e.g., fear of more medical bills) affected negotiation tactics. How can law enforcement better gather and utilize intelligence to avoid missteps?
One concept discussed was the use of emotion labeling and effective pauses as negotiation techniques. Why are these approaches particularly effective in crisis negotiation scenarios?
A key theme that emerged was the impact of cumulative trauma and the need for psychological resilience in policing. What strategies were suggested for managing trauma and stress both individually and organizationally?
The discussion explored the “triad of command” model during critical incidents. How does integrating incident, tactical, and negotiations leadership improve decision-making and outcomes?
Several points were raised about advice for future negotiators, including pursuing diverse education and practicing skills outside traditional law enforcement roles. What benefits are associated with broadening one’s background, and how can prospective negotiators prepare for the unique demands of the field?
Links from this Episode:
-- The People Mentioned:
Harvey Schlossberg - Be Sure toCheck Out Harvey's Wife's Episode of The Crisis Cop!
Wikipedia – Harvey Schlossberg
Gary McDougall - Be Sure to Check Out Gary's Episode of The Crisis Cop!
LinkedIn – Gary McDougall
(Former Calgary Police, crisis negotiations instructor and speaker.)
Kevin Briggs
Wikipedia – Kevin Briggs
(Known as "The Guardian of the Golden Gate Bridge" for his suicide prevention work.)
Gary Noesner - Be Sure to Check Out Gary's Episode of The Crisis Cop!
Gary Noesner Official Website
(Retired FBI negotiator, author of "Stalling for Time")
Harry Drucker
Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department Bio
(Public information officer, often cited for negotiation expertise.)
Deb McMahon
LinkedIn – Deb McMahon
(Crisis negotiation trainer and speaker.)
Joni Birkenheier
LinkedIn – Joni Birkenheier
(Law enforcement negotiations team leader in Illinois.)
Mike Vohling
Reference: Law enforcement professional in Illinois (limited public information)
(Mentioned as a negotiator and team leader with NIPAS.)
Waymond Mullins
Amazon – Books by Waymond C. Mullins
(Author of "Crisis Negotiations: Managing Critical Incidents and Hostage Situations in Law Enforcement and Corrections")
Michael McMahan
Amazon – Crisis Negotiations: Managing Critical Incidents and Hostage Situations in Law Enforcement and Corrections
(Co-author on premier negotiations textbook)
Robert Cialdini
Official Website – Robert Cialdini
(Author of "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion")
Chris Voss
Official Website – Chris Voss
(Former FBI negotiator, author of "Never Split the Difference")
Malcolm Gladwell
Official Website – Malcolm Gladwell
(Author of "Talking to Strangers" and other bestselling books)
Bessel van der Kolk
Official Website – Bessel van der Kolk, M.D.
(Author of "The Body Keeps the Score")
-- The Books & Authors Mentioned:
The Psychology of Persuasion by Robert Cialdini
Talking to Strangers by Malcolm Gladwell
The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk
Crisis Negotiation: Managing Critical Incidents and Hostage Situations in Law Enforcement and Corrections by Michael McMains
-- Get All of Pat's Books on Amazon Now!:
Crisis Cops: The Evolution of Crisis Negotiation in America
Crisis Cop 2: More Stories from the Front Lines of Crisis Negotiation
...
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