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Welcome to Under Contract, where I sit down with some of the top real estate agents and team leaders in the country to talk about how they built their businesses, what's working right now, and where they see the industry going next.
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Today I'm joined by Jim Bim from the Columbia, Maryland market.
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Uh Jim, thanks for coming on.
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I'm excited to have you.
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Hey, glad to be here.
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Awesome.
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Let's go ahead and dive right into it.
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I like to start at the beginning.
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So take me back to the beginning.
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How'd you get into real estate?
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And how did you get from there to where you are today?
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So been in real estate forever, it feels like.
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I love it.
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And um so you've been in in the game for basically 40 plus years at this point.
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Uh you know, I when I started in real estate, you know, every week they or every month they gave you a book of the new listings, you know, so you can have a book of what's for sale, you know.
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So that's that's how long it's been.
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I love it.
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Well, that that's gonna be interesting because you've seen obviously a lot of iterations.
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Um I'd love to know, you know, kind of let's fast forward.
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You obviously have a huge successful business now.
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What does the business look like today?
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Like, how's the team structured?
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And if you're comfortable sharing, roughly how much production are you doing?
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Yeah, so you know, I don't really have a team.
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I mean, you know, my sons and I have a little business here.
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We function independently, but we work together, if you would.
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Um, the three of us will sell 225, 250 homes a year between the three of us.
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Wow.
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Okay, that's incredible.
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Um and one of the things I've noticed uh with successful entrepreneurs, uh, when when they look back, there's usually one or two moments where something really changed.
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It could have been a decision, a strategy, a hire, or just maybe even a different way of thinking thinking about the business.
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When you look at everything you built, what were one or two turning points that really changed the trajectory of your business?
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Uh well, you know, I was fortunate because early on I worked with three gentlemen.
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Uh, one was the top realtor here in the area at the time, another one was a builder, another one was a developer.
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So I got my PhD, you know, straight out of college by being sitting with these three guys that really knew their side of the game.
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So I got a land development process aspect, uh uh you know, new home building aspect, and a and a realtor aspect.
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So I got really a nice foundation.
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Uh, and you know, the my one real estate uh guy that I was following or was working with and was my mentor, uh Jim Adair, he followed Tommy Hopkins.
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And and in all frankless, Tommy Hopkins um didn't really blend with my style.
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If you it was it just the way he was trying to get you to do real estate just didn't work for me.
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So in 1989, uh I met Mike Ferry.
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And Mike Ferry's uh style, his aggressive nature, his the way he went after the business uh meld very well with how I am.
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And uh so that that's that was probably the biggest turning point in my career.
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I went from you know one direction to a completely different direction and and how I did business, and and that's been very uh beneficial to me and my clients over all these years, I think.
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I love it.
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I've uh Mike Ferry's name has come up uh in a few people's backstory I talked to you, so I don't think that's a coincidence.
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Um now we have agents of all ranges that listen to these episodes, but this one's a little bit more for a newer agent.
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Uh just a thought experiment.
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If I dropped you into a brand new city tomorrow with no database, no reputation, and no relationships, and you had to build it all over again, what would you do first?
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Uh well, that that's an interesting question.
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Um, what would I do first?
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Uh I'd get real comfortable with rejection.
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And I and I would and I would do that by uh uh uh getting as much of it as fast as I possibly could.
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So getting a lot of reps in quickly.
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Yes and getting that reps.
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Yeah, go go to the high contact, uh uh the you know the the the the the the more rejection you get the the more business you will get.
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I love that.
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So you just gotta create that thick skin as quickly as possible.
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Well, if you're going after the the the the people that are real nice to you, um you're and and and you're probably only dealing with your family.
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And the you know, I think that's why the average realtor does, you know, either well, what are we here in in August?
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And I think the National Association of Realtors just came out and said, what, 83% of all realtors at this point in the year still haven't sold a house?
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Unbelievable, right?
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Yeah.
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So those are the people that are I think are are sitting and waiting for you know, mom, dad, sister, aunt Sadie to actually conduct real estate.
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Um, you know, real estate, at least to me, is a direct sales business, it's a high contact business, it's a contact sport.
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And either you're entertaining that and embracing that, and or you're not.
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And I think if you're not embracing that, there's no way for you to, I'm sorry, I thought I had turned that thing off.
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Um, if you're not embracing that, there's there's no way for you to do a lot of business.
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No, that makes a lot of sense, uh, absolutely.
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Um, and speaking of uh getting more clients, client acquisition, um, curious, like where are your best clients actually coming from today?
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Like maybe what's working now that maybe wasn't working a few years ago, or they're just some tried and true methods.
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Yeah, it's the phone.
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So, you know, everybody uh, you know, I think everybody's trying to find easy ways to get business.
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And uh you can either spend a fortune and go broke, uh, or you can, you know, get out and beat the bushes and shake the trees and and make it happen.
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I I don't know that there's uh a middle ground.
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I think that's why you see so many big teams these days, um, because everybody's trying to do multi-level marketing and spend their way to success or ride off of somebody else's work.
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Yep.
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No, I I agree.
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When no, when real quick, I want to get a little tactical.
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When you say phone, obviously I understand it, pick up the phone, but what does that actually look like?
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If I'm an agent, um where are my my three sons?
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My my two sons and I, the three of us, prospect on average probably 12 to 15 hours a day.
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Wow.
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Wow.
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And are are these is there are there are these do these have buyer indicators or are are we just this is this is calling for looking, these are calling for uh sellers for our buyers and buyers for our sellers.
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You know, we are we are we are actively out looking for business.
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All right, I love that.
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Now something I I hear a lot of agents talk about that you know, they say, well, you know, I I need more leads, I need more leads, but then I hear other agents talk about, well, actually, it's if you had better follow-up, um, you may not need as many leads.
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So I'm curious about your philosophy on follow-up.
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Like once a new lead comes in, can you walk me through what happens next?
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Uh how quickly you're following up.
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So I think it a lot of it has to do with where you're obtaining your your leads from.
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Um, if you are uh if you're doing Zillow and you know, all these other ways for people to get leads where it's low contact or low uh should I say low confrontation.
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Um not actually hunting, they're you're paying some money and they come to you.
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Um, I think that's very top of the funnel.
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You need to follow up with them forever.
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You know, I think that uh, you know, I'm I and I don't do Zillow or any of that stuff.
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I don't I don't buy I don't buy any business.
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So I think that the challenge becomes when I've researched into that and I look at people whose business comes from that.
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Um, the average Zillow lead, I think it's out of if you take a even Zillow says on their own website, you take a hundred Zillow leads, only two or three of them actually do anything.
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Yep.
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Well, how do you find that you know, how do you find the needle in the haystack?
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Number one.
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So you have to follow up with all these, and on top of that, you're typically that's a six to a nine-month gestation period before it goes from you know a caterpillar to a butterfly.
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Yep.
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So I think that the the the follow-up game has to be a must.
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Um, I think if you're calling uh an expired or for sale by owner, uh, you know, whatever lead source you tend to like, um the there's a lot less follow-up because it's now business, but that is a high confrontation, high rejection side of the business.
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Sure.
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So there's a lot less follow-up, but you know, a lot more competition, a lot more contact, a lot more rejection, a lot, a lot, uh, you know, it's a completely different game than you know, Zillow leads.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And you've touched on some ways that uh that you do things maybe differently than some of uh the other agents are out there, but I do have a question.
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People come, I'll be really frank with you.
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People come near us and they say, Hey, can we come see what you do?
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And we've had agents come into the office and follow us around and do that.
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Um, I don't care if anybody wants to do that.
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Nobody would do what we do to to generate business.
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But I don't think anybody, I'll be frank with you, I you know, we my sons and I will probably outwork just about anybody else.
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What what do we do different?
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We will outwork you.
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Yep.
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Um we will do things ethically.
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Um, you know, people will accuse us all the time of of of you know, it seems the more business you do, the the non-business people, the non-doers accuse us of dishonesty and uh and just you know lack of ethics.
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No, we just outwork everybody else.
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There's no special sauce, there's no secret.
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There's there's either outwork you or don't.
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Yep.
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No, I love that.
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I love that.
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Um okay.
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So uh my next question uh would be, and you may have touched base on this a little bit, but uh I just want to get this one out there is what's what's something almost everyone in real estate believes that you actually think is wrong?
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It's a little bit of a contrarian question.
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What does everybody believe that I think is wrong?
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Um you see a sentiment out there that you think is wrong.
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Well, I I I I think what what I believe that everybody else believes, but I think it's wrong.
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Um, I I think that uh you can make a great living uh just off of past clients and customers to start.
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Unless you unless you have unless you're that person that just has a huge Rolodex of people that just know they can trust you and you start out with that.
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Um I don't I don't know how anybody survives from just that.
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And that's what every company teaches you do open houses and and and contact your family and friends and beg for business.
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And and uh um I I I think that's why most realtors fail because they don't think this is they don't think they're in sales.
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Yeah, you know, they're told everybody runs from the idea that we're in sales.
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I am I'm a door-to-door direct sales, I'm in the door-to-door direct sales business.
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Sure.
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Most people they either think that's you know, I won't say the company name, but they actually kicked us out for prospecting.
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They said it was they said it was unprofessional.
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Wow.
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Okay.
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It's a big it's a big player here in the area, but you know, the the the the the their collapse their business is collapsing, closing offices everywhere because they don't think that they're in the sales business.
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They think real estate is not the sales business.
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And ask your seller, ask your seller when they hire you, or you know, what business am I in?
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I'm in the business of selling their house.
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Yep.
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And and a lot of real estate companies don't think that's true.
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So I think those are probably the only two things that I would disagree completely with the real estate industry.
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That makes sense.
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And I'm curious, like, because you talk about how many hours you and your sons put in.
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Uh like I I think one of the things that especially early agents struggle with is they're sort of their own boss, if you will.
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Um, and maybe they've never had that experience.
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And I think time management be kind of becomes a challenge at times.
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Like I can wake up at any time.
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What is your do you have a structure to your day?
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Can you kind of uh show us maybe what like I I I think my my if there is a secret sauce, I think my secret sauce is that I'm more disciplined than most.
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Oh, you're exactly right.
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Why most people fail is because they're they're because they're their own boss.
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And yes, and I think that that uh if you're gonna be successful in this in this crazy world that we're in of real estate, you know, you have to look at it and say, how much money do I want to make?
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You know, if I want to make 100,000, 200,000, 500,000, million dollars.
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If I were an employee and I were paying somebody as an employee and they expected to earn a million dollars, what would I expect of them?
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That's a great idea.
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I expect a lot.
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And and when you kind of reverse engineer that to what would you expect that person to do?
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And you write that list out, you're gonna find it's a pretty aggressive list.
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And then you have to, you know, any any success that you have in life, there's gonna be a price to be paid.
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You know, it doesn't come for free.
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Are you willing to pay that price?
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Whatever that price is, I don't know.
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And it's it's different for different people because different people have different talents and different abilities and you know, God-given stuff.
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So, you know, I think that the the question really becomes is what price are you willing to pay?
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Yep.
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And you know, my price is that I'm willing to pretty much do whatever it takes and outwork you.
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I love that.
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Um, now let me ask you a quick question because this is a thought experiment.
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I like to ask agents, and I'm curious to hear your answer because of how hard you work, which obviously to some degree we only have 24 hours in the day.
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But if I was to say, hey Jim, let's double your business over the next couple of years, like what would have to be true in order for that to be the case?
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For me to double my business, you know, it's really funny you ask that because we've been looking at that now.
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We've been, I hate to use the word stuck, but we've been stuck at this range of uh, you know, 200 and some to 250 transactions a year for three years in a row.
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And we're trying to figure that out right now.
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And and when I know, when I figure it out, I'll let you know.
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You know, what we have looked at is is there a way for us through ad spend, through some other mechanism to help our business jump to that next level?
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And and I haven't found anything that I feel comfortable um doing as of yet.
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You know, so we've in that realm of okay, great, you know, how do we do some of the things?
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Um, I'm not willing to do some of the services that a lot of agents are willing to do because the profit margin is so small.
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I'm not interested in having a team of 100 people to say I sell more homes.
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Um, I it I want it to be something that really makes uh great uh sense for our clients and at the same time great sense for us.
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And I haven't found that yet.
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You know, I don't want to say names again, but you look at some companies where teams are are are running their entire business through that, but that business that they're running through owns 42 to 45 percent of their profit margin.
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And they take it right off the top as a referral fee.
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And I don't know how um uh you know, if you're gonna do that, you know, reduce, but even the uh, you know, reduce your fee across the board.
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But the uh, you know, you even take some of the big players here in the areas, the discount brokers, um, you know, they're they're they're if they weren't publicly traded, they'd be out of business.
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Sure, true.
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So it's it's it's really it's a very interesting dynamic watching what's going on in our industry right now and watching, you know, the the lawsuits that say here's what you have to do.
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It's it a lot of interesting uh shifts going on, you know.
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But for me, about every seven years, you know, there there's a change to the industry, and and we're going through it right now, and it we'll figure it out.
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I love it.
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Okay.
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Now, um, since we're doing this thought experiment, I'd love to ask, you can dream here for just a second.
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Yeah, if you could wave a magic wand and solve one problem in your business over the next 12 months, what would have the biggest impact?
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Uh, you know, we we're pretty fortunate.
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We we run a very tight ship, we don't really have a lot of challenges, you know.
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The the the the the administration side of the transaction is is is always a challenge, and and and I don't want to throw stones at my industry, but there's a lot of folks that just frankly, if you're only selling one or two or three homes a year, you know, and I don't want to say you don't know what you're doing, and I wouldn't say you don't know what you're doing, but you know, it's it's very challenging because you're dealing with folks that just a lot of times don't do a lot of business and therefore they just don't know.
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And they're supposed to be the expert, and a lot of times because they don't do a lot of business, they're not able to help guide their clients in a way that helps make the transaction smooth and easy for everybody.
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So that there's a lot of bumps in the roads that are created just because of you know the the the the skill set of the people you're dealing with.
00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:06.079
Makes a lot of sense.
00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:20.319
Now I'm curious about your your answer to this because you've hinted at kind of like we outwork everybody, um, but I want to fit uh finish a little bit looking forward a little bit and something we we've been hearing a lot about, which is AI.
00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:24.480
Um, and I'm curious like what's your overall relationship with AI?
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:26.880
So how are you actually using it in the business today?
00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:29.680
We're toying with it, we're we're trying to implement it.
00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:38.799
Um, you know, it it's good in some aspects, you know, and and and uh uh you know the folks who help me, they they're using it a little bit.
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:43.759
I I don't, you know, people think that AI are gonna put realtors out of business.
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:47.200
I I don't think it will ever put realtors out of business.
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:52.720
I mean, I've heard that, like I said, about every seven years, you know, here's this new thing, it's gonna put realtors out of business.
00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:55.839
I I don't think it really changes anything.
00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:04.799
Um, you know, it it's interesting watching some of the the some of the websites that are using AI that they can talk to it and then they can help them search for homes.
00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:13.599
You know, it's gonna make things flood and it'll be a little trinket, but I don't know that it changes things in a in a dramatic way beyond what we're already doing.
00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:23.680
I think it may uh, you know, it it'll help with some phone answering and things like that, but it's not gonna change the aspect of, you know, you've got to get to your clients.
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:26.880
Your clients want to talk to you, they don't want to talk to AI.
00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:27.200
Sure.
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:36.960
We do have clients at times that'll say, well, AI says, you know, the problem with AI is that AI says what it says based upon what you ask it.
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:37.680
100%.
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:38.799
It's all about it.
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:53.119
Well, and the worst part is that AI is just the quick path to searching the internet, and you don't think you're dealing with the internet of the person that never sold a house before, uh, and and giving out advice and direction, and AI has found them.
00:19:53.279 --> 00:20:03.440
So it's really a challenge at times when people are are proposing AI to be the expert, just like people go to the doctors and they're saying to the doctor, you know, well, AI says this is this, you know.
00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:08.720
Well, yeah, no, I agree because at the end of the day, AI only has access to the information that's on the internet.
00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:17.200
And the thing is, is that the internet can't tell you how to navigate the Columbia, Maryland area like Jim can, right?
00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:30.160
I mean, it's just and it's given that it's the biggest purchase that most people make, uh, I think that I don't see it affecting um real estate agents in that way, especially people that you know are at your level.
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:36.640
I I I it it is affecting things because it's causing people to ask the questions, which I think are great.
00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:46.559
But I think when people ask the question and then take action based upon what AI is telling them, I think that's where the trouble is coming in for them because they think that that is gospel.
00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:50.079
And a lot of times it's just flat out wrong.
00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:53.920
Okay, let's end uh one last question.
00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:59.599
You you talked about these seven-year cycles um that that you've noticed over your career.
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:04.480
Um and you you've noticed that some things have changed and some things haven't.
00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:19.039
Right uh based on where you see things trending, could you share one or two things you think that that might change uh about the industry and one or two things that maybe people believe could change that you don't believe that actually will change?
00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:30.400
I I don't think that I don't think the role of the realtor that's really good quality, given great service, taking care of their people, giving them great advice, I don't think that'll ever go away.
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:32.720
I don't think that'll ever go away.
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:36.720
And um I could be wrong, but I don't think that ever goes away.
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:50.319
I I think all the the the worldwood around it, whether you have a VA, you know, outside of your office, whether you have staff inside your office, whether AI is helping you to manage that or not managing it, I think all those things will consistently change.
00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:58.720
And different teams and different groups and different agents will have will come up with what they are comfortable with that allows them to provide the service that they want.
00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:19.359
I think that the I think that where AI will come into play, just like the VAs are coming into play, as as agents consistently try to, you know, push fees down and try to compete, they try to compete on cost versus service, which you know, anytime you compete on cost, there's somebody going to be lower.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:19.680
Yeah.
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:24.559
Trying to figure out how they provide less service, but actually look like they're giving service.
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:49.279
And that's that's putting them in a situation where you're creating all these things that you know are really doing the best that they could, versus having, you know, that staff in your office, the people in your office able to answer the phones, respond to the questions, give the client the service that they really want, versus trying to do it offshore with a VA or sure with an AI or whatever.
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:52.319
I think those are the things that the industry is going in the wrong direction.
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.279
Just like to me, teams have been the wrong direction.
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:57.279
I think it only serves the team leader.
00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:00.880
I don't think it serves the client or or the consumer.
00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:03.519
I think it only serves a very small portion.
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:06.880
It doesn't even serve the broker, only serves the team leader.
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:08.559
Yeah, no, I agree.
00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:10.240
All right, Jim, thank you.
00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:16.960
Before we wrap up, where where can people learn more about uh you and what you guys are doing?
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:23.920
Oh, I'm easy to find if you just type in Jim Bim, J I M B I M Real Estate or Go Winning Edge or anything like that.
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:25.759
You know, I'm I'm here in in Maryland.
00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:31.759
If you got any referrals or any want to send a consume, you know, send somebody to me in Maryland, I'm I'm happy to help.
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:32.400
Love it.
00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:33.200
All right, Jim.
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:35.519
Thanks again for joining me on under contract.
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:36.720
I really enjoyed the conversation.
00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:37.680
Hey, had fun.
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:38.720
Hopefully you did too.
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:39.599
Thanks, Jim.
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:40.720
You got it.
00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:15.679
Welcome to Under Contract, where I sit down with some of the top real estate agents and team leaders in the country to talk about how they built their businesses, what's working right now, and where they see the industry going next.
00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:19.280
Today I'm joined by Jim Bim from the Columbia, Maryland market.
00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:20.879
Uh Jim, thanks for coming on.
00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:21.760
I'm excited to have you.
00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:23.359
Hey, glad to be here.
00:00:24.000 --> 00:00:24.480
Awesome.
00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:26.079
Let's go ahead and dive right into it.
00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:27.760
I like to start at the beginning.
00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:29.359
So take me back to the beginning.
00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:30.800
How'd you get into real estate?
00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:33.920
And how did you get from there to where you are today?
00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:36.880
So been in real estate forever, it feels like.
00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:52.719
I love it.
00:00:52.960 --> 00:00:58.479
And um so you've been in in the game for basically 40 plus years at this point.
00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:07.599
Uh you know, I when I started in real estate, you know, every week they or every month they gave you a book of the new listings, you know, so you can have a book of what's for sale, you know.
00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:09.200
So that's that's how long it's been.
00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:09.920
I love it.
00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:13.920
Well, that that's gonna be interesting because you've seen obviously a lot of iterations.
00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:18.239
Um I'd love to know, you know, kind of let's fast forward.
00:01:18.319 --> 00:01:20.400
You obviously have a huge successful business now.
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What does the business look like today?
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Like, how's the team structured?
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And if you're comfortable sharing, roughly how much production are you doing?
00:01:28.799 --> 00:01:31.840
Yeah, so you know, I don't really have a team.
00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:34.799
I mean, you know, my sons and I have a little business here.
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We function independently, but we work together, if you would.
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Um, the three of us will sell 225, 250 homes a year between the three of us.
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Wow.
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Okay, that's incredible.
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Um and one of the things I've noticed uh with successful entrepreneurs, uh, when when they look back, there's usually one or two moments where something really changed.
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It could have been a decision, a strategy, a hire, or just maybe even a different way of thinking thinking about the business.
00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:11.360
When you look at everything you built, what were one or two turning points that really changed the trajectory of your business?
00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:18.479
Uh well, you know, I was fortunate because early on I worked with three gentlemen.
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Uh, one was the top realtor here in the area at the time, another one was a builder, another one was a developer.
00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:31.439
So I got my PhD, you know, straight out of college by being sitting with these three guys that really knew their side of the game.
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So I got a land development process aspect, uh uh you know, new home building aspect, and a and a realtor aspect.
00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:40.960
So I got really a nice foundation.
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Uh, and you know, the my one real estate uh guy that I was following or was working with and was my mentor, uh Jim Adair, he followed Tommy Hopkins.
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And and in all frankless, Tommy Hopkins um didn't really blend with my style.
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If you it was it just the way he was trying to get you to do real estate just didn't work for me.
00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:07.599
So in 1989, uh I met Mike Ferry.
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And Mike Ferry's uh style, his aggressive nature, his the way he went after the business uh meld very well with how I am.
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And uh so that that's that was probably the biggest turning point in my career.
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I went from you know one direction to a completely different direction and and how I did business, and and that's been very uh beneficial to me and my clients over all these years, I think.
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I love it.
00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:43.280
I've uh Mike Ferry's name has come up uh in a few people's backstory I talked to you, so I don't think that's a coincidence.
00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:51.680
Um now we have agents of all ranges that listen to these episodes, but this one's a little bit more for a newer agent.
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Uh just a thought experiment.
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If I dropped you into a brand new city tomorrow with no database, no reputation, and no relationships, and you had to build it all over again, what would you do first?
00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:07.360
Uh well, that that's an interesting question.
00:04:07.520 --> 00:04:09.280
Um, what would I do first?
00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:11.840
Uh I'd get real comfortable with rejection.
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And I and I would and I would do that by uh uh uh getting as much of it as fast as I possibly could.
00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:21.839
So getting a lot of reps in quickly.
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Yes and getting that reps.
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Yeah, go go to the high contact, uh uh the you know the the the the the the more rejection you get the the more business you will get.
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I love that.
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So you just gotta create that thick skin as quickly as possible.
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Well, if you're going after the the the the people that are real nice to you, um you're and and and you're probably only dealing with your family.
00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:56.480
And the you know, I think that's why the average realtor does, you know, either well, what are we here in in August?
00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:03.600
And I think the National Association of Realtors just came out and said, what, 83% of all realtors at this point in the year still haven't sold a house?
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Unbelievable, right?
00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:05.279
Yeah.
00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:14.399
So those are the people that are I think are are sitting and waiting for you know, mom, dad, sister, aunt Sadie to actually conduct real estate.
00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:22.000
Um, you know, real estate, at least to me, is a direct sales business, it's a high contact business, it's a contact sport.
00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:27.360
And either you're entertaining that and embracing that, and or you're not.
00:05:27.519 --> 00:05:33.120
And I think if you're not embracing that, there's no way for you to, I'm sorry, I thought I had turned that thing off.
00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:38.720
Um, if you're not embracing that, there's there's no way for you to do a lot of business.
00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:41.680
No, that makes a lot of sense, uh, absolutely.
00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:50.959
Um, and speaking of uh getting more clients, client acquisition, um, curious, like where are your best clients actually coming from today?
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Like maybe what's working now that maybe wasn't working a few years ago, or they're just some tried and true methods.
00:05:57.199 --> 00:05:58.480
Yeah, it's the phone.
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So, you know, everybody uh, you know, I think everybody's trying to find easy ways to get business.
00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:13.920
And uh you can either spend a fortune and go broke, uh, or you can, you know, get out and beat the bushes and shake the trees and and make it happen.
00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:17.279
I I don't know that there's uh a middle ground.
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I think that's why you see so many big teams these days, um, because everybody's trying to do multi-level marketing and spend their way to success or ride off of somebody else's work.
00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:29.040
Yep.
00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:30.160
No, I I agree.
00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:32.639
When no, when real quick, I want to get a little tactical.
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When you say phone, obviously I understand it, pick up the phone, but what does that actually look like?
00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:42.240
If I'm an agent, um where are my my three sons?
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My my two sons and I, the three of us, prospect on average probably 12 to 15 hours a day.
00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:50.879
Wow.
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Wow.
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And are are these is there are there are these do these have buyer indicators or are are we just this is this is calling for looking, these are calling for uh sellers for our buyers and buyers for our sellers.
00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:12.720
You know, we are we are we are actively out looking for business.
00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:14.480
All right, I love that.
00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:29.680
Now something I I hear a lot of agents talk about that you know, they say, well, you know, I I need more leads, I need more leads, but then I hear other agents talk about, well, actually, it's if you had better follow-up, um, you may not need as many leads.
00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:32.319
So I'm curious about your philosophy on follow-up.
00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:35.519
Like once a new lead comes in, can you walk me through what happens next?
00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:37.040
Uh how quickly you're following up.
00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:43.120
So I think it a lot of it has to do with where you're obtaining your your leads from.
00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:56.639
Um, if you are uh if you're doing Zillow and you know, all these other ways for people to get leads where it's low contact or low uh should I say low confrontation.
00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:01.759
Um not actually hunting, they're you're paying some money and they come to you.
00:08:02.079 --> 00:08:05.600
Um, I think that's very top of the funnel.
00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:08.079
You need to follow up with them forever.
00:08:08.319 --> 00:08:12.720
You know, I think that uh, you know, I'm I and I don't do Zillow or any of that stuff.
00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:15.120
I don't I don't buy I don't buy any business.
00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:22.079
So I think that the challenge becomes when I've researched into that and I look at people whose business comes from that.
00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:32.320
Um, the average Zillow lead, I think it's out of if you take a even Zillow says on their own website, you take a hundred Zillow leads, only two or three of them actually do anything.
00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:32.879
Yep.
00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:37.039
Well, how do you find that you know, how do you find the needle in the haystack?
00:08:37.120 --> 00:08:37.679
Number one.
00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:49.759
So you have to follow up with all these, and on top of that, you're typically that's a six to a nine-month gestation period before it goes from you know a caterpillar to a butterfly.
00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:50.480
Yep.
00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:55.679
So I think that the the the follow-up game has to be a must.
00:08:55.840 --> 00:09:13.200
Um, I think if you're calling uh an expired or for sale by owner, uh, you know, whatever lead source you tend to like, um the there's a lot less follow-up because it's now business, but that is a high confrontation, high rejection side of the business.
00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:13.759
Sure.
00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:25.679
So there's a lot less follow-up, but you know, a lot more competition, a lot more contact, a lot more rejection, a lot, a lot, uh, you know, it's a completely different game than you know, Zillow leads.
00:09:26.080 --> 00:09:27.039
Yeah, absolutely.
00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:35.360
And you've touched on some ways that uh that you do things maybe differently than some of uh the other agents are out there, but I do have a question.
00:09:35.759 --> 00:09:37.039
People come, I'll be really frank with you.
00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:40.159
People come near us and they say, Hey, can we come see what you do?
00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:44.080
And we've had agents come into the office and follow us around and do that.
00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:46.000
Um, I don't care if anybody wants to do that.
00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:48.720
Nobody would do what we do to to generate business.
00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:56.000
But I don't think anybody, I'll be frank with you, I you know, we my sons and I will probably outwork just about anybody else.
00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:57.279
What what do we do different?
00:09:57.440 --> 00:09:58.639
We will outwork you.
00:09:58.879 --> 00:09:59.200
Yep.
00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:02.720
Um we will do things ethically.
00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:14.639
Um, you know, people will accuse us all the time of of of you know, it seems the more business you do, the the non-business people, the non-doers accuse us of dishonesty and uh and just you know lack of ethics.
00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:16.879
No, we just outwork everybody else.
00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:19.360
There's no special sauce, there's no secret.
00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:23.039
There's there's either outwork you or don't.
00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:23.840
Yep.
00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:24.879
No, I love that.
00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:25.679
I love that.
00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:27.120
Um okay.
00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:43.519
So uh my next question uh would be, and you may have touched base on this a little bit, but uh I just want to get this one out there is what's what's something almost everyone in real estate believes that you actually think is wrong?
00:10:44.240 --> 00:10:45.919
It's a little bit of a contrarian question.
00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:48.879
What does everybody believe that I think is wrong?
00:10:49.039 --> 00:10:51.440
Um you see a sentiment out there that you think is wrong.
00:10:51.679 --> 00:10:56.159
Well, I I I I think what what I believe that everybody else believes, but I think it's wrong.
00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:03.679
Um, I I think that uh you can make a great living uh just off of past clients and customers to start.
00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:14.639
Unless you unless you have unless you're that person that just has a huge Rolodex of people that just know they can trust you and you start out with that.
00:11:14.799 --> 00:11:19.519
Um I don't I don't know how anybody survives from just that.
00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:26.960
And that's what every company teaches you do open houses and and and contact your family and friends and beg for business.
00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:35.039
And and uh um I I I think that's why most realtors fail because they don't think this is they don't think they're in sales.
00:11:36.159 --> 00:11:40.799
Yeah, you know, they're told everybody runs from the idea that we're in sales.
00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:47.039
I am I'm a door-to-door direct sales, I'm in the door-to-door direct sales business.
00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:47.600
Sure.
00:11:47.840 --> 00:11:55.360
Most people they either think that's you know, I won't say the company name, but they actually kicked us out for prospecting.
00:11:55.600 --> 00:11:58.720
They said it was they said it was unprofessional.
00:11:59.600 --> 00:12:00.080
Wow.
00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:00.559
Okay.
00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:11.519
It's a big it's a big player here in the area, but you know, the the the the the their collapse their business is collapsing, closing offices everywhere because they don't think that they're in the sales business.
00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:14.320
They think real estate is not the sales business.
00:12:14.559 --> 00:12:20.399
And ask your seller, ask your seller when they hire you, or you know, what business am I in?
00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:22.399
I'm in the business of selling their house.
00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:23.120
Yep.
00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:26.240
And and a lot of real estate companies don't think that's true.
00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:31.679
So I think those are probably the only two things that I would disagree completely with the real estate industry.
00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:32.720
That makes sense.
00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:37.759
And I'm curious, like, because you talk about how many hours you and your sons put in.
00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:45.279
Uh like I I think one of the things that especially early agents struggle with is they're sort of their own boss, if you will.
00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:47.679
Um, and maybe they've never had that experience.
00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:50.960
And I think time management be kind of becomes a challenge at times.
00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:52.720
Like I can wake up at any time.
00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:55.600
What is your do you have a structure to your day?
00:12:55.679 --> 00:13:04.960
Can you kind of uh show us maybe what like I I I think my my if there is a secret sauce, I think my secret sauce is that I'm more disciplined than most.
00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:06.320
Oh, you're exactly right.
00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:11.440
Why most people fail is because they're they're because they're their own boss.
00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:23.600
And yes, and I think that that uh if you're gonna be successful in this in this crazy world that we're in of real estate, you know, you have to look at it and say, how much money do I want to make?
00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:27.679
You know, if I want to make 100,000, 200,000, 500,000, million dollars.
00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:36.399
If I were an employee and I were paying somebody as an employee and they expected to earn a million dollars, what would I expect of them?
00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:38.240
That's a great idea.
00:13:38.559 --> 00:13:39.440
I expect a lot.
00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:45.600
And and when you kind of reverse engineer that to what would you expect that person to do?
00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:49.840
And you write that list out, you're gonna find it's a pretty aggressive list.
00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:55.120
And then you have to, you know, any any success that you have in life, there's gonna be a price to be paid.
00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:56.799
You know, it doesn't come for free.
00:13:56.960 --> 00:13:58.159
Are you willing to pay that price?
00:13:58.320 --> 00:13:59.919
Whatever that price is, I don't know.
00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:06.639
And it's it's different for different people because different people have different talents and different abilities and you know, God-given stuff.
00:14:06.799 --> 00:14:11.519
So, you know, I think that the the question really becomes is what price are you willing to pay?
00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:12.240
Yep.
00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:18.000
And you know, my price is that I'm willing to pretty much do whatever it takes and outwork you.
00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:19.840
I love that.
00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:22.879
Um, now let me ask you a quick question because this is a thought experiment.
00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:31.440
I like to ask agents, and I'm curious to hear your answer because of how hard you work, which obviously to some degree we only have 24 hours in the day.
00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:40.159
But if I was to say, hey Jim, let's double your business over the next couple of years, like what would have to be true in order for that to be the case?
00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:45.919
For me to double my business, you know, it's really funny you ask that because we've been looking at that now.
00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:57.679
We've been, I hate to use the word stuck, but we've been stuck at this range of uh, you know, 200 and some to 250 transactions a year for three years in a row.
00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:00.080
And we're trying to figure that out right now.
00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:03.120
And and when I know, when I figure it out, I'll let you know.
00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:14.080
You know, what we have looked at is is there a way for us through ad spend, through some other mechanism to help our business jump to that next level?
00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:20.240
And and I haven't found anything that I feel comfortable um doing as of yet.
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:25.279
You know, so we've in that realm of okay, great, you know, how do we do some of the things?
00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:35.200
Um, I'm not willing to do some of the services that a lot of agents are willing to do because the profit margin is so small.
00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:39.759
I'm not interested in having a team of 100 people to say I sell more homes.
00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:48.639
Um, I it I want it to be something that really makes uh great uh sense for our clients and at the same time great sense for us.
00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:50.559
And I haven't found that yet.
00:15:50.639 --> 00:16:03.919
You know, I don't want to say names again, but you look at some companies where teams are are are running their entire business through that, but that business that they're running through owns 42 to 45 percent of their profit margin.
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:06.799
And they take it right off the top as a referral fee.
00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:16.240
And I don't know how um uh you know, if you're gonna do that, you know, reduce, but even the uh, you know, reduce your fee across the board.
00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:27.200
But the uh, you know, you even take some of the big players here in the areas, the discount brokers, um, you know, they're they're they're if they weren't publicly traded, they'd be out of business.
00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:28.240
Sure, true.
00:16:28.639 --> 00:16:37.440
So it's it's it's really it's a very interesting dynamic watching what's going on in our industry right now and watching, you know, the the lawsuits that say here's what you have to do.
00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:41.039
It's it a lot of interesting uh shifts going on, you know.
00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:49.039
But for me, about every seven years, you know, there there's a change to the industry, and and we're going through it right now, and it we'll figure it out.
00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:50.080
I love it.
00:16:50.320 --> 00:16:50.639
Okay.
00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:56.320
Now, um, since we're doing this thought experiment, I'd love to ask, you can dream here for just a second.
00:16:56.399 --> 00:17:06.079
Yeah, if you could wave a magic wand and solve one problem in your business over the next 12 months, what would have the biggest impact?
00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:10.880
Uh, you know, we we're pretty fortunate.
00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:15.680
We we run a very tight ship, we don't really have a lot of challenges, you know.
00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:44.160
The the the the the administration side of the transaction is is is always a challenge, and and and I don't want to throw stones at my industry, but there's a lot of folks that just frankly, if you're only selling one or two or three homes a year, you know, and I don't want to say you don't know what you're doing, and I wouldn't say you don't know what you're doing, but you know, it's it's very challenging because you're dealing with folks that just a lot of times don't do a lot of business and therefore they just don't know.
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:56.000
And they're supposed to be the expert, and a lot of times because they don't do a lot of business, they're not able to help guide their clients in a way that helps make the transaction smooth and easy for everybody.
00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:04.400
So that there's a lot of bumps in the roads that are created just because of you know the the the the skill set of the people you're dealing with.
00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:06.079
Makes a lot of sense.
00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:20.319
Now I'm curious about your your answer to this because you've hinted at kind of like we outwork everybody, um, but I want to fit uh finish a little bit looking forward a little bit and something we we've been hearing a lot about, which is AI.
00:18:20.480 --> 00:18:24.480
Um, and I'm curious like what's your overall relationship with AI?
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:26.880
So how are you actually using it in the business today?
00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:29.680
We're toying with it, we're we're trying to implement it.
00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:38.799
Um, you know, it it's good in some aspects, you know, and and and uh uh you know the folks who help me, they they're using it a little bit.
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:43.759
I I don't, you know, people think that AI are gonna put realtors out of business.
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:47.200
I I don't think it will ever put realtors out of business.
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:52.720
I mean, I've heard that, like I said, about every seven years, you know, here's this new thing, it's gonna put realtors out of business.
00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:55.839
I I don't think it really changes anything.
00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:04.799
Um, you know, it it's interesting watching some of the the some of the websites that are using AI that they can talk to it and then they can help them search for homes.
00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:13.599
You know, it's gonna make things flood and it'll be a little trinket, but I don't know that it changes things in a in a dramatic way beyond what we're already doing.
00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:23.680
I think it may uh, you know, it it'll help with some phone answering and things like that, but it's not gonna change the aspect of, you know, you've got to get to your clients.
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:26.880
Your clients want to talk to you, they don't want to talk to AI.
00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:27.200
Sure.
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:36.960
We do have clients at times that'll say, well, AI says, you know, the problem with AI is that AI says what it says based upon what you ask it.
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:37.680
100%.
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:38.799
It's all about it.
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:53.119
Well, and the worst part is that AI is just the quick path to searching the internet, and you don't think you're dealing with the internet of the person that never sold a house before, uh, and and giving out advice and direction, and AI has found them.
00:19:53.279 --> 00:20:03.440
So it's really a challenge at times when people are are proposing AI to be the expert, just like people go to the doctors and they're saying to the doctor, you know, well, AI says this is this, you know.
00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:08.720
Well, yeah, no, I agree because at the end of the day, AI only has access to the information that's on the internet.
00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:17.200
And the thing is, is that the internet can't tell you how to navigate the Columbia, Maryland area like Jim can, right?
00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:30.160
I mean, it's just and it's given that it's the biggest purchase that most people make, uh, I think that I don't see it affecting um real estate agents in that way, especially people that you know are at your level.
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:36.640
I I I it it is affecting things because it's causing people to ask the questions, which I think are great.
00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:46.559
But I think when people ask the question and then take action based upon what AI is telling them, I think that's where the trouble is coming in for them because they think that that is gospel.
00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:50.079
And a lot of times it's just flat out wrong.
00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:53.920
Okay, let's end uh one last question.
00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:59.599
You you talked about these seven-year cycles um that that you've noticed over your career.
00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:04.480
Um and you you've noticed that some things have changed and some things haven't.
00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:19.039
Right uh based on where you see things trending, could you share one or two things you think that that might change uh about the industry and one or two things that maybe people believe could change that you don't believe that actually will change?
00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:30.400
I I don't think that I don't think the role of the realtor that's really good quality, given great service, taking care of their people, giving them great advice, I don't think that'll ever go away.
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:32.720
I don't think that'll ever go away.
00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:36.720
And um I could be wrong, but I don't think that ever goes away.
00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:50.319
I I think all the the the worldwood around it, whether you have a VA, you know, outside of your office, whether you have staff inside your office, whether AI is helping you to manage that or not managing it, I think all those things will consistently change.
00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:58.720
And different teams and different groups and different agents will have will come up with what they are comfortable with that allows them to provide the service that they want.
00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:19.359
I think that the I think that where AI will come into play, just like the VAs are coming into play, as as agents consistently try to, you know, push fees down and try to compete, they try to compete on cost versus service, which you know, anytime you compete on cost, there's somebody going to be lower.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:19.680
Yeah.
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:24.559
Trying to figure out how they provide less service, but actually look like they're giving service.
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:49.279
And that's that's putting them in a situation where you're creating all these things that you know are really doing the best that they could, versus having, you know, that staff in your office, the people in your office able to answer the phones, respond to the questions, give the client the service that they really want, versus trying to do it offshore with a VA or sure with an AI or whatever.
00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:52.319
I think those are the things that the industry is going in the wrong direction.
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:55.279
Just like to me, teams have been the wrong direction.
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:57.279
I think it only serves the team leader.
00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:00.880
I don't think it serves the client or or the consumer.
00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:03.519
I think it only serves a very small portion.
00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:06.880
It doesn't even serve the broker, only serves the team leader.
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:08.559
Yeah, no, I agree.
00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:10.240
All right, Jim, thank you.
00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:16.960
Before we wrap up, where where can people learn more about uh you and what you guys are doing?
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:23.920
Oh, I'm easy to find if you just type in Jim Bim, J I M B I M Real Estate or Go Winning Edge or anything like that.
00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:25.759
You know, I'm I'm here in in Maryland.
00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:31.759
If you got any referrals or any want to send a consume, you know, send somebody to me in Maryland, I'm I'm happy to help.
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:32.400
Love it.
00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:33.200
All right, Jim.
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:35.519
Thanks again for joining me on under contract.
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:36.720
I really enjoyed the conversation.
00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:37.680
Hey, had fun.
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:38.720
Hopefully you did too.
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:39.599
Thanks, Jim.
00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:40.720
You got it.
