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[00:00:00] David: Well, John. Confidently predicted the pace that we would be working through chapter 10. And it appears to be, appears to be true that we're not moving any faster than normal, and I hope that everybody is loving it. I kind of feel like if you've stuck with us for 43 odd episodes and only made it to chapter 10, you're comfortable with this pace of journey.
[00:01:10] John: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think our last podcast we, we read from verses nine to 23 and we, we, we, we stopped on verse nine. So we, I think we spent essentially the whole of last podcast on verse nine. Peter went up onto the roof to pray.
[00:01:27] David: yes.
[00:01:28] John: and if any of our listeners have list missed the previous podcast, I really would.
[00:01:34] Encourage you to listen to that. I personally was just impacted by it, sharpened by it, encouraged by it. Inspired by it. And Some beautiful reflections there on that glorious interactive tension between the intentional and the spontaneous when it comes to the life of the spirit and even the life of prayer and devotion.
[00:01:58] So beautiful, beautiful stuff. I, I so enjoyed that personally, David, and was in Rich Pat. Thank you.
[00:02:05] David: I think it's quite interesting how this story here that we're making our way into, in chapter 10 has, has some remarkable similarities to the story in chapter nine about Paul, including a double vision structure, right? Where here Cornelius has a. And also also Peter has a
[00:02:32] vision back over in chapter nine, we encountered and not as much as made of it admittedly, but an Anais has this encounter with the Lord, and, and an Anais is told, you need to go help this man called Saul and. And then, and all we hear is this one single line that says, and he has seen a vision that a man named Ananias is coming to lay his hands on him. So we've actually seen this structure before, which kind of almost, because I know what's coming in this chapter makes me want to think about framing this chapter as, and I mean this slightly playfully.
[00:03:08] The conversion of Peter, right? That, that, that, we talked about the last chapter. We're gonna take a, Saul this persecutor and turn him into a Christian. But actually what's what we're involved in here is this story. And this is what this vision about, isn't it? That a very, a, a person devout, in a very particular way is going to convert their thinking to, to a, to a totally different way.
[00:03:29] I dunno if you resonate with that.
[00:03:31] John: Beautiful. I, I, I totally do. And in fact, there is a, there is in this sort of comparison even of Cornelius and Peter an awkwardness to the story cuz it, when the Lord directs Cornelius to sort of send to Joppa, he doesn't hesitate.
[00:03:48] David: Hmm.
[00:03:48] John: There's a, this is a Roman centurion totally. Responds to the, to the director of the Lord and, and Nas, we're about to see here's, here's a man of God who walked with Jesus for three plus years and the Lord's telling him to do something and he's struggling with it.
[00:04:07] And again, it, it does show you this remarkable tension in our own spirituality. Are they that just because we know the Lord doesn't mean. We know everything and it doesn't mean we're ready to do everything. And it doesn't even mean we're aligned with everything. I think you can know the Lord and yet be, can I use the language, forgive me, dysfunctional in, in numbers of areas, and I think it's one of the great mistakes we make in discipleship, or because someone's a man of God or a woman of God or a follower of Jesus.
[00:04:40] That must mean that. And every single idea they've got everything absolutely right. And of course, history, biblical history, human history, church history shows us you can be a genuinely enthusiastic and passionate follower of Jesus and get some stuff absolutely catastrophically wrong. And, and again, if, if we're going to, if we're going to.
[00:05:08] Can I say be generous in our journey of Jesus, we, we've gotta be open to that in others, and we've gotta be open to that in ourselves.
[00:05:15] David: Mm
[00:05:15] John: That actually there is still brokenness within me that needs to be transformed and encounter with the Lord. Attitudes within me that need to be changed, behaviors that still need to be refined, belief systems that need to be challenged.
[00:05:31] Even though I've been a follower of Jesus since I was eight years old and I'm now 56. I'm still going, oh my goodness. I, I thought I'd dealt with that, or I thought that attitude wasn't in me. Or an end, the Holy Spirit squeezes you, confronts you challenges, and you go, oh, okay. And I think this is what's going on.
[00:05:52] I, that's why I would resonate with the conversion of Peter, not in the positional salvation sense, but in there is now a conversion of a belief system.
[00:06:02] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:02] John: going to definitely change the trajectory of his life in terms of what he believes about the world and Gentiles in particular.
[00:06:10] David: And at some level, there's a beautiful symmetry with Saul there because both of them are gonna end up in the same place. They're both gonna end up as people who are devote. Jewish Torah followers, one believes in Jesus and follows Torah. One doesn't believe in Jesus and follow Torah. They're both going to encounter the spirit and end up in the same place believing Jesus and welcoming Gentiles to the table.
[00:06:40] And which at some level is why I think it's kind of neat, and I'm sure it's not lost on Luke, that this whole story about. Engagement with Gentiles is often governed in in, in Jewish observants by eating. So one of the really effective ways of keeping Jewish people separate from Gentiles in, in the time of Peter is, is food law.
[00:07:08] Because of your, your food laws mean it's actually. Dangerous if you want to remain ritually clean to eat with gentiles. So generally the process is when we just don't do that. So, and, and I, I have Galatians in the back of my mind that when this really hits a sharp point, it is around can we eat together?
[00:07:27] So it's not lost on me that this whole story for Peter begins, he is hungry. and, uh,
[00:07:34] John: Absolutely. And it's, it's a very, it's a very powerful vision, isn't it? Very stark, very dramatic. This sheet comes down filled with animals, and the Lord says kill and eat, rise, kill, and eat. And I'm, I'm struck by Peter's response, David. He says, Lord, I've never eaten anything.
[00:07:56] Literal transition, common.
[00:07:58] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:58] John: I haven't eaten anything common or unclean. And it's, it's an interesting phraseology. Obviously thinking about the food laws, it, the unclean stuff is, is pretty there, but that, that sense of common commonness and especially when we know who's coming to the door it's a very interesting sort of phraseology.
[00:08:21] And, and of course Peter is responding as you would expect him to respond. He's saying, hold on a minute, Lord you. Leviticus teaches us that we shouldn't eat this stuff. The Torah came from God and you've told us not to eat this stuff, and
[00:08:38] now you're telling me to eat
[00:08:39] David: always a bad strategy, to do an exegesis argument with the Lord. You know what I mean?
[00:08:44] John: with the God who wrote the book. Absolutely. But it, but it, it's a, we, we sometimes, Criticize Peter, but I totally get Peter. Peter is responding out of his belief system. He's responding out of his background. He's responding out of what he is both being taught and practiced all his life,
[00:09:03] but he's been now challenged to do something.
[00:09:07] Different beyond that with this metaphor of food, this picture of kill and eat. And of course it's, it's not that the Lord wants him to kill and eat anything but something's coming, that will mean Peter has to abandon any sense of separation from a truly gentle world.
[00:09:29] David: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, and I think, I mean, I was gonna say, let me read just a line. This is from James Dunn in his book, beginning from Jerusalem he says this don't rush out.
[00:09:42] And I, I, I love this book, but don't rush out and buy it. This is from from page 392, and it's, it's not even near the middle. And so,
[00:09:50] John: Sounds like Jamestown. Yeah
[00:09:52] David: he, he says this, Peter here. Is portrayed as through and through loyal to the ancestral traditions of Second Temple Judaism. Observation of the laws of clean and unclean foods had become a distinctive identifying mark of the Judaism, which defined itself by its opposition to Hellistic and Gentile influences, right?
[00:10:16] So, so what Peter hears in Take and Eat is. Don't be Jewish. Right? This, and we can't, I don't think we can overplay that. This is, this is not, oh, I'm I don't really like mushrooms, right?
[00:10:33] This is not even a vegetarian having a bacon sandwich because the, the smell this is. This is a complete change of identity.
[00:10:46] It's religious. It's social, it's ethnic. Peter. It is difficult for him to get his head around this, but, but I, and I think though even. It's worth saying, John, and you're, and please jump in on this. Either pull me off this train or join me and let's, let's really get this train going. But, but bear in mind, and, and I have a couple of texts that I can, I can share about this, but bear in mind that Peter has grown up.
[00:11:13] And this is from silence, but I think I can gamble on this pretty heavily. Peter has grown up wherein the hero stories that he grew up with are people doing exactly what he's doing in this vision. So think about Daniel, right? Like, think about the story of Daniel. I will not eat that. Right? Well, what?
[00:11:30] And, and Daniel's refusal to eat that. Is the space where the Holy Spirit works, right? I, I was looking at this text here in the Maccabees, and I, I realize not everyone's reading the Maccabees in their morning devotions, but you know, it's a Jewish text, a couple hundred years before the scene that we're talking about right here.
[00:11:47] This situation has happened where violence is coming against the people of Israel. Anyone that follows Tara being killed, if people are being circumstances, so read this, according to the decree, they, they killed women who had their children circumcised and their families. Right.
[00:12:04] And then they hanged, I mean, a bit of a trigger warning, how terrible this is. They hanged the infants on their mother's necks and left them to die. But then, but look at how the people of Israel responded. Many in Israel stood firm and were resolved in their hearts not to eat unclean food. They chose to die rather than be defiled and listened to the language defiled by food or to profane the holy covenant, and and, and so, so there's this. These are the hero stories of Israel, right. Is is doing exactly what Peter does here? No, there is no chance I'm meeting that. I mean, you, you tracking with that
[00:12:40] John: Oh, completely, 100%. And brilliantly points brilliantly made, I think will help our listeners contextualize that. And, and, and this is not just an issue of menu. This is an issue fundamentally of identity, history and distinctiveness. So the, the Lord is pressing a significant button here in Peter's life.
[00:13:06] This is going to get his attention. And, and it is absolutely doing that. And, and you get this incredible re and, and totally understandable reaction from Peter Peter's reaction. It, I, I'm not shocked by it. I'm not dismayed by I'm, I'm going Well, I would be shocked if he just said, oh yeah, okay, that's fine.
[00:13:28] Let's do that. What, what's, what's slightly. Interesting, of course, is that Peter has hung around Jesus for a significant amount of time. Unseen. Jesus pushed the envelope of some of this stuff, but probably not seeing Jesus violate it. The food laws in the context of that. But he has had very interesting people sit at his table and he has, he has sat at very interesting tables, so, so Jesus has been nudging the envelope.
[00:13:57] Jesus has been pushing that. Peter has been exposed to that, but somehow that hasn't then material.
[00:14:05] David: Yeah.
[00:14:06] John: Into Peter Crossing, can I say this literally, or metaphorically crossing the border for himself. So the Lord has to now do something radical to get Peter's attention. And I, I suppose it shows number one, how deeply in green identity can be an is all for good or for.
[00:14:31] David: Yeah.
[00:14:32] John: how seriously the Lord is taking this issue. If the Lord is using a such a controversial image to get Peter's attention, it shows the Lord's really, really serious about this, because potentially the Lord is contradicting himself, is leaving himself open for accusations of sort of, Hey, have you changed your mind?
[00:14:59] On that issue. So this is, this is deeply, deeply controversial at so many levels in, in, and it's really important for us to, I think, contextualize that.
[00:15:09] David: I, I wondered as, as well, like I was thinking about this language of disruption that we talk about and the depth of this disruption, so,
[00:15:18] John: Yeah.
[00:15:19] David: There's a level where I, I, as I was reading the text, I thought, and this is hard for Peter because this is his hero stories, I mean, the Maccabees won't be familiar to, to all Christians for sure, but, but the story of it's hard to get through Sunday School and not at some point and encounter the story of Daniel and, and the eating, I mean, There is even a Daniel fasting program out there.
[00:15:42] Which have you heard of that one? There's the
[00:15:44] Daniel Fast, and I have to say, I have to say John, and if you forgive my, my cynicism on here, it always makes me laugh that the Daniel Fast is promoted as a weight loss loss program. But when you actually read Daniel, they are all heavier at the end of their Daniel fast.
[00:16:00] And, so it does, it, it always makes me chuckle a little bit, but let's not get sidetracked by that. I then found myself occasionally you'll see a particular phrase or a word and. And for whatever reason you think, oh, that's an unusual word. And, and maybe it's not even an unusual word, but I was struck by Peter's response in verse 14 in the Greek, that the word is meos, right?
[00:16:25] By no means, right?
[00:16:26] It's, um, and it struck me that it's not There's a couple of things I wanna say about this, but, but while we're on this conversation, it, it struck me, I, that doesn't feel like the word I expected to see there in the Greek. So I did a little look around and I dunno if you spotted this, but fascinatingly in the step two, again, in the Greek translation of the Old Testament, it is exactly the same word the Ezekiel uses in Ezekiel chapter four.
[00:16:53] Right. And Ezekiel chapter four is a, Can I say weird? Respectfully, sort of prophecy wherein people are cooking bread on human dung. So things are in a very bad place. They're under siege. They're heading towards all sorts of disaster. And, and the Lord says in verse 13, thus shall the people of Israel eat their B bread unclean.
[00:17:17] Among the nations to which I drive them. Right? So, so things are gonna be so bad that the people are gonna have to eat unclean bread, right? And, and the, and Ezekiel response replies in the English translations often to have, Lord. But the, but in the Greek translation of the Old Testament, he says exactly the same word that pizza uses here in, in chapter 10.
[00:17:38] He says, I have never. Filed myself from my youth up until now. I have never eaten what died of itself or was torn by an animals or has carion come into my mouth. Right? I can't help but see just for the sheer humor of it. The Lord's response to that is, oh, okay, then you can cook your bread on cow dung instead of human dung, which I'm not sure, sounds like an overly brilliant promotion.
[00:18:07] It has nothing to do with my point. I just wanted to point out the humor of it. But what I wanted to make the point was, is that, In, it's interesting to me, and I'm, I'm sure you possibly have some thoughts on this, that Peter actually uses the exact words, the, the meos word that he has l learned while I, I'm also working from the premise that Peter knows Ezekiel very well, cuz I think that would be a fair, a fair expectation.
[00:18:33] Do you think that's interesting?
[00:18:34] John: Oh, it's incredible. I'd never seen that before. So yeah, that's, that's, I love that. I love that. Never made that link before. That is, and, and again, it does show you the, the strength of Peter's reaction. If, if you compare it to Ezekiel, I, I've never done anything like that. I'm not gonna start starting.
[00:18:52] And Peter's doing exactly the same thing. It's almost, I've never seen that before. It's just brilliant, David. And if you put those two side by side there, is there, there's almost a mirror image of the reaction to God in the context of this. And, and of course what what's sort of fascinating is that in, in the X story, obviously in the Ezekiel story, God gives a bit of a concession to Ezekiel, a weird concession, but a concession nonetheless.
[00:19:18] Whereas in the X Story, the Lord just remains relentless.
[00:19:22] David: Yes.
[00:19:23] John: I mean, it's quite, it's quite striking. Peter says, not so Lord. Verse 14, and in verse 15, the voice spoke again. It's almost like, okay, let, let, let me tell you again what I want. And, and but, but it was interesting in that, in that second response, the Lord says, don't, don't call unclean.
[00:19:42] David: Yes.
[00:19:43] John: Or, or, or, don't call that what I've cleans. Don't call. So, so there's a sense in which it's not just the Lord has repeated what he said, but he's qualified. What he said, he's, he's challenging that, that actually, hold on a minute. God isn't just asking Peter to eat food that he knows he shouldn't eat, but God is now saying, no, no, I have cleansed something and therefore, because I've cleansed that you shouldn't, you shouldn't call it.
[00:20:14] Anymore. And of course that's hinting to something beyond whatever animals are in the sheet.
[00:20:20] David: Well, this is what I find really stunning about the, the Ezekiel contrast with this story here in Acts 10 is that the, in Ezekiel, the eating of the profane is. A bad thing.
[00:20:38] John: Hmm.
[00:20:39] David: And, and so, so Ezekiel's defense against God is, is seen almost as a, another one of these, like Daniel, like the Maccabees. You're in the right space.
[00:20:47] It is, and this is what I mean by this disruptive sense of the presence. In a weird way, and I'm gonna try and say this as, as properly as I can and, and rescue me from heresy, if you feel me heading that direction. But what's fascinating is Peter makes the biblical point. If Peter is even exactly has Ezekiel in his mind when he uses the word Lord.
[00:21:11] And Actually Peter's right, according to scripture, Peter is right. And the disruption of the spirit is actually things have changed. Peter. Something's different now. It's not that you are wrong, Peter, to want to avoid profane food. It's that I have moved the markers over what qualifies as profane and.
[00:21:36] And I think it's, I mean, I think this is stunning a move of the spirit. And it just, it, there's so much my brain overheats the things I wanna say about that. But, but I just, I, I wanna make that point really clearly that if we can live with that in a, in a, in a way that doesn't turn us all into sort of random readers of the Bible, but Peter is right.
[00:21:58] God is changing things and I'm, wow.
[00:22:01] John: It is. And, and, and I think that's why that second comment in verse 15 is so important. I think we didn't have that. It would, it would fail like, oh, poor Peter, he is like backed into a corner and how, how, how else would he respond? But that qualification in verse 15, don't call impure what I've made clean.
[00:22:23] So, so what has God made clean? Is it, is it, forgive me. Is it the pegs in the. Is it the, is it the unclean animals that are coming down or, or is there something else that God has made clean within this? And, and I, that's the, that's the game changer. So again, the Lord is not asking Peter to break the law.
[00:22:51] He's asking Peter to embrace the new.
[00:22:56] David: Yes.
[00:22:56] John: The new parameters. There's something new here that Peter is being asked to embrace. He's not being asked to do something that God has forbidden him to do. Now, I, I know there's controversy around the food laws generally because of things that Jesus said and how that might be interpreted.
[00:23:12] But if we just, if we just take Peter in his Jewishness as he stands, I think that really is helpful. God qualifies his Peter's pushback. By saying, actually, Peter, there's some stuff I've called clean. And because of that you have to embrace it. So, so in that sense, it's divine authority here to embrace this thing that was once unclean, that is now being called clean.
[00:23:41] And at this stage, of course, if we hadn't have read the, the rest of the book of X, we're still thinking, well, what is this really about? But of course, we, we do know there's a wider, a wider application to that.
[00:23:52] David: And I, I think it's interesting that When Peter Exegetes the dream himself, and it's about 10 verses from now, so we'll get there in about 10 episodes probably when Peter Exegetes the dream himself, that's exactly what he does. So to give people that little jump ahead, he goes, he, he says, He makes the link, and this is the wonderful bit about it.
[00:24:13] If God says that food is okay, then I am not gonna object to come and associate with you because I, I I, my reading of that is that Peter understands that the food laws are what keep the boundary between June and Gentile. If you remove those food laws, you have essentially removed the fence. Right. That's the thing that stopped us hanging out together.
[00:24:33] Now we are gonna. Together. It's what, it's what walls and fences and boundaries do, right? Isn't it? And, and when you take them away, you are saying something. And I think it's interesting that the Lord trusts Peter to exegete the vision properly just by the way the story unfolds. But John, I wonder if it's worth just a very brief moment to talk about this language of commonness.
[00:24:58] I, I think that, I really like the way that N R S V translates it as the word profane because I, I do think in modern tradition, we, we struggle with the idea of purity and, and, and, and cleanliness. We think about them at, at scientific levels, not ritual levels. So we think, oh, it's dirty, right? But actually impure and dirty are not the same thing.
[00:25:24] So I, I, I think a, a better way to phrase it or not a better way to phrase a way, a better way to understand it, is that for something to be common or to be made common is to take away its holiness. Right. It's to say this thing is not holy. So, so whenever in, in, in scripture you're ever hearing about this clean and unclean, think in terms of holy and unholy that's the language you're talking about.
[00:25:50] So, so, so then read this, what God has made. Holy, you must not call unholy.
[00:25:57] And I'm not criticizing the translations here, I'm just trying to broaden our semantic understanding of word. But I think if in your head you read it that way, you get a, a much bigger understanding of how Peter makes the leap to Cornelius then does that, does that
[00:26:13] John: Oh no, that's brilliant. Absolutely. And, and I, I think that that sense of separated under God and not separated under God, this, this, and therefore what is not separate under God, is that sense common.
[00:26:29] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:29] John: Absolutely. And that distinctiveness no, that, that's deeply helpful and I think that that sort of quantifies the language a little bit for us an an understanding of what's going on there.
[00:26:41] No, no, totally, totally. With all of that, and, and of course, but isn't it beautiful then that there's a sense in which explicitly it's been at many levels implicit in the text, but here we have a very explicit statement from the. If I can use this carefully and heard properly that the Gentiles are now holy
[00:27:04] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:05] John: to, to, to use that carefully.
[00:27:07] I don't mean that in the, in the ritualistic sense, but the Gentiles are now, let me forgive this. Kosher. So, so, so they, they are, they are now. Legitimate targets of God's grace and God's mercy. Now, a, a, a true understand of biblical narrative, I think that's always been there, but Peter needs that spelled out to him.
[00:27:32] And, and we reflected couple of podcasts going Jonah,
[00:27:36] David: Mm-hmm. I was just thinking about Jonah.
[00:27:38] John: Absolutely. I, I think Jonah's struggle is Peter's struggle using different language and Jonah's concern that somehow the the gentile nations are, are going to benefit from the loving, kindness and faithfulness of God. And, and he doesn't want that because in Jonah's worldview, they are unclean, they are common, they are unholy, they are pro.
[00:28:09] And, and, and so this explicit statement from the Lord's very powerful, and in the Book of Acts is absolutely seminal because God is making a declaration over the gaem. He's making a declaration over the gentile world, that the gentile world is now clean or acceptable as it were.
[00:28:29] David: I mean, it's interesting in staying within Luke's cannon, what you're saying there. And even thinking about how this is what happens in the story of Jonah, but think about Jesus's take on scripture, so Luke 24 verse 46. This is Jesus's understanding of the Old Testament, right? So the same text that Peter has, Jesus says, thus it is written that the Messiah is to suffer and to rise from the dead on the third day.
[00:28:58] And that repentance and forgiveness of sins is to be proclaimed in his name to all nations. Beginning from Jerusalem, so, so I always think it's interesting that, Jesus's take on, what is the Old Testament doing is it's talking about his death, his resurrection, and repentance of the nations.
[00:29:14] So, And actually if you dive, and Jonah's a perfect example of this. Notice in Jonah, Jonah almost lives out that story in a broken way. He's eaten by a fish, he's spewed up to new life on the shore. He announce he's repentance to the, to the foreign nation, and they, and they respond because there's a level we're in.
[00:29:35] Once you think about, holy and profane, that is actually. The, the, the ancient Jewish worldview sees the world. There's Israel and the nations.
[00:29:48] Right. So, so, you know, there's, they are the priest and there's the priest and the tribes, we are the, we are the priest to, to the nations.
[00:29:56] So Jesus's argument is, the old Testament's been always pushing us towards this pizza. This is, this is where we've been commonly going, but, but it's fascinating, the. That is being sort of taken that, that Peter has to face these moments and, and I wondered John, verse 16 and, and this happened three times and the thing, whatever this kinda sheetlike thing was, is suddenly taken up to heaven.
[00:30:22] And I was curious, it just struck me. This happened? Like what is this? Right? Is it the sheet coming down and going back up or is it the whole exchange? Right? Does Peter, does Peter three times,
[00:30:37] uh, say No, I'm, I'm not eating it right. I've never ate what's profane. And I was playing with this John, right?
[00:30:45] So again I dunno. I always caveat when I do this, but I think people know that we do this, so, but I was playing this, I was thinking about Samuel
[00:30:53] John: Yep.
[00:30:53] David: three times. I'm not quite
[00:30:55] John: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:30:57] David: and then I couldn't, it's a different gospel, so this is not good ex of Jesus. I couldn't help but think about Jesus and Peter's denied Jesus three times.
[00:31:05] Jesus has forgiven Peter three times,
[00:31:08] and so there's just this sense there that three times the spirit says. This is, it does Peter three times saying, ah, and God says, no, what is clean is not profane. And then the beautiful thing is three men then turn up,
[00:31:24] John: Yeah,
[00:31:25] David: three profane people turn up and ask for I, I don't know.
[00:31:28] I'm just having fun with that, John.
[00:31:30] But it's kind of nice, isn't it?
[00:31:31] John: what is it is totally there. And and, and I think those two threes in this passage are very significant, I think. And I think, again, the echo into the world of Peter, A Jewish world where encounters in threes these ideas, triple emphasis and Peter's own experience, I think. I think this really is, and of course when you get something.
[00:31:56] Repeat it. It's, it's like the Bible turning volume up on, and it's, it's, it's, there really is a tussle going on here. Something is happening, which is quite profound. And, and, and I love, I love the fact that verse 17 says Now, now is Peter sort of pondered this or wondered about this, reflected on this. He's wrestling in his own mind with this.
[00:32:20] Clearly he knows that in this trance like state, he's had a definite encounter with God. He knows the Lord has spoken. Dare I say, it could. Could it be the voice of the Jesus that Peter walked with? So he knows this voice. He knows it is the Lord.
[00:32:39] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:40] John: he also knows there's a level in which I'm right on this, but I can't square the circle.
[00:32:46] So he's thinking about it, pondering about it, and then just at that moment, three men arrive. Now, that could just be purely, purely coincidental that three men just happened to arrive. When Peter is wrestling with the. On his roof still and he's just gone What on earth? And trying to square that circle.
[00:33:13] But, but it could be one of those gorgeous little god incidental inclusions where, you know, this three that has just happened to him, coincides with three gentil.
[00:33:26] David: Yeah.
[00:33:27] John: That are now standing, knocking at Simon's door, asking to come in. I, I, I do love, at the very least, the poetic symmetry of it. But I think it's, I think it's more significant than poetic symmetry.
[00:33:39] I think there is something in providential here that the three is not an accident.
[00:33:48] David: And I, I wanted to say, I, I do think, I do think the Lord here is a reference to the voice of Jesus. It's
[00:33:55] simply,
[00:33:56] I I, mean, I, I read some commentators and they're like, well, it could just be, sir. It could, it's that Lord Mark of respect, but, We've drawn the parallel between chapter nine and chapter 10.
[00:34:06] We've got Paul Saul, who are you, Lord Anais. Here I am Lord. Then we have Cornelius he, what is it, Lord? And now we have Peter. No way, Lord. So I think I, I, I'm very comfortable sitting with this is the voice of Jesus simply because. By the time you get to First Corinthians, Paul at least is telling you that his encounter is with Jesus.
[00:34:32] and, and and Luke has at no point corrected that Paul's voice is any different than the three other voices we hear throughout this text. So I, I would resonate with that, that, that this is, this is Peter having an argument with Jesus, which is something he is familiar to doing.
[00:34:50] John: It. He has, he's had a few before. He has, he's had a few before. And, and again, the gorgeous, magnificent patience and can I use the word properly, tolerance of the Lord. The Lord is slow to anger and a pounding and loving kindness of faithfulness Back to Jonah back to our echo of that, that five part confession of the Lord, and, and here he's demonstrating.
[00:35:16] Compassion and grace to the Gentiles, and he's slow to anger. And relentless and faithfulness and loving kindness to Peter. I mean, he could just knock Peter off the roof and say, right, Peter, get over it. Lad, it's what I want you to do. But he's working with Peter and he's letting Peter push back. And I, I, I don't know if you noticed this, David, this is, I am definitely overcooking the three here, but I did love, I did love when the, when the three men come to the door and they explain why they're there, they.
[00:35:51] They, they define or describe Cornelius in three ways, and we've had this echo before. They describe him as righteous. There's a thought thinking about holy and unholy, clean and unclean. They describe him as God fearing, and they describe him as being well testified about or respect.
[00:36:19] David: Yes.
[00:36:20] John: By the Jewish community.
[00:36:22] Look, look at the language, the nation of the Jews,
[00:36:25] David: Hmm hmm.
[00:36:26] John: and you go, oh, oh, oh, I love that. Oh, here's Peter going, no way. There's no way I am eating anything unclean. And the three men pop up and they describe Cornelius and Wes that. Peter's gone. Whoa, how can I, how can I argue against this? Because what's been described to me in three ways is a dynamic almost confirmation or affirmation that God's made something clean that previously. I, I, I'm probably overstretching up, but I do like it. I do like, again, the poetic symmetry of it within the text.
[00:37:06] David: Yes it is. It is. It's wonderful actually, isn't it? It really is. It is wonderful and I love the subtle. Adjustment of the description as well. And that, that he is in the, we first meet him, he's devout, God fearing, gives arms and praise, and here he's upright, God-fearing and well-spoken of.
[00:37:28] Uh,
[00:37:28] John: am well
[00:37:28] David: you know, this, we're seeing this kind of, this, this fascinating.
[00:37:31] I mean, it's quite acclaim, well stuck spoken of by the whole Jewish nation. I mean this, Cornelius really is a fascinating character, isn't he?
[00:37:39] John: Which, which is a little, there's a lovely little echo there, which Peter May have recognized. The Centurion who approaches Jesus about his servant.
[00:37:47] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:37:48] John: And it's Jews who represent this man, and they say, he's built our synagogue. He's a good man.
[00:37:54] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:37:56] John: So, so they're sort of saying to Jesus, Jesus, if you could do a favor for a Gentile, he's, he's probably worthy of a respect, and you get this lovely.
[00:38:04] And I've, I've been the Yad Vahe, where you, the, the Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem where you walk along the avenue of the righteous and the avenue of the righteous is a, is a place dedicated to gentiles
[00:38:16] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:17] John: God in seeking to support our help the Jewish nation. So, so there is a tradition of recognizing.
[00:38:23] David: yes.
[00:38:25] John: Good people and, and we've, and, and as maybe, as maybe the servants of Cornelius rock up to Peter and here and Peter hears this, the triple description. Me. Oh, oh, I've heard that before. I've seen this before. I haven't. Maybe God is saying something about them. Maybe. Maybe that connection to the centurion and the gospels.
[00:38:50] A little seed that would come to harvest Nai and Simon, the Tanner's house. I don't know. I, I, I love those little connections. I love those. I if, if the Lord is not acting randomly, then that little encounter with the centurion in Jesus, in the gospels where Peter happened to listen to the whole thing, has to come to harvest at a moment like this when Peter's now confronted with his own centurian and he's told he's respected by the whole Jewish nation, Peter.
[00:39:17] David: the way that Luke presents him, devout God-fearing arms generously praise constantly, and then he's described as upright, God-fearing, well spoken of, and has had an angelic visitor. What this does, I think is, is it tells. That Cornelius is not a pagan, right? If, if you'll allow me to use that,
[00:39:46] that term.
[00:39:46] John: Yeah, yeah,
[00:39:47] David: Therefore, and this is the trap, if I can say that playfully, the only problem Peter can have with Cornelius. Is that he's not Jewish, right. Because Cornelius is ticking all of the boxes. And two Peter's credit, he gets this right?
[00:40:05] That this is not, that, that, that I am cornered If I, the only thing that's preventing me from welcoming this person is, is this, so this,
[00:40:15] and this is the thing that the spirit is targeting that I need to change.
[00:40:19] John: Ah, that's brilliant. That's brilliant. That's, that's magnificently put. I love that. I love that. I, I love the way you've summarized that, which, which then seems to explain verse 23, so here's a man that, that won't rise and eat. Sort of the unclean animals, and yet it says these men become his guests at the house of Simon.
[00:40:41] And again, back to that idea of Gentiles, the guests of a Jew in the house of a man who works with the skins of dead animals, it's all going on there. It's just beautiful, isn't it?
[00:40:51] David: The Greek is, I think, and I think it's gorgeous Greek here. So the NIV says, so Peter invited them in and gave them lodgings, right? But the Greek slightly, if I was
[00:41:03] attempt literally it, it says, Then And calling them in.
[00:41:08] John: called in.
[00:41:09] David: Calling them in. He made them guests.
[00:41:11] Right. And, and it's, it's like, it's only four words in the Greek verse 23.
[00:41:16] But I well, that first clause of
[00:41:17] verse 23 That it starts the next, it splits into the next section, but just a gorgeous four words calling them in. He made them guests
[00:41:26] John: I love that.
[00:41:27] David: Like, oh my goodness.
[00:41:28] John: Yeah. I, I just saw that it's absolutely beautiful having called in. Yeah. So, so it's, it is, it's, it's, it's like, okay, Peter's, go on. Right. This is not just something that I have to tolerate. I have enough tore embrace and that calling in is just absolutely beautiful there. I.
[00:41:48] David: And, and notice, notice the Greek word of, is, is is xk where the same verbal route, where we get the word Xenos xenophobia. Xenophobia is the fear of. Of strangers. I, I, I'm sure I've said this before in the podcast, but it's worth repeating. So we know the Greek word for fear of strangers.
[00:42:08] It's, it's xenophobia. We don't know the Greek word for the love of strangers, which is zania. To love the stranger. It always gets translated as hospitality. And I love that idea that hospitality is to love the stranger. And here Peter offers them stranger welcome. And I mean, yeah, it just, it's gorgeous and, and perhaps lands this section beautifully.
[00:42:33]
[00:00:00] David: Well, John. Confidently predicted the pace that we would be working through chapter 10. And it appears to be, appears to be true that we're not moving any faster than normal, and I hope that everybody is loving it. I kind of feel like if you've stuck with us for 43 odd episodes and only made it to chapter 10, you're comfortable with this pace of journey.
[00:01:10] John: Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think our last podcast we, we read from verses nine to 23 and we, we, we, we stopped on verse nine. So we, I think we spent essentially the whole of last podcast on verse nine. Peter went up onto the roof to pray.
[00:01:27] David: yes.
[00:01:28] John: and if any of our listeners have list missed the previous podcast, I really would.
[00:01:34] Encourage you to listen to that. I personally was just impacted by it, sharpened by it, encouraged by it. Inspired by it. And Some beautiful reflections there on that glorious interactive tension between the intentional and the spontaneous when it comes to the life of the spirit and even the life of prayer and devotion.
[00:01:58] So beautiful, beautiful stuff. I, I so enjoyed that personally, David, and was in Rich Pat. Thank you.
[00:02:05] David: I think it's quite interesting how this story here that we're making our way into, in chapter 10 has, has some remarkable similarities to the story in chapter nine about Paul, including a double vision structure, right? Where here Cornelius has a. And also also Peter has a
[00:02:32] vision back over in chapter nine, we encountered and not as much as made of it admittedly, but an Anais has this encounter with the Lord, and, and an Anais is told, you need to go help this man called Saul and. And then, and all we hear is this one single line that says, and he has seen a vision that a man named Ananias is coming to lay his hands on him. So we've actually seen this structure before, which kind of almost, because I know what's coming in this chapter makes me want to think about framing this chapter as, and I mean this slightly playfully.
[00:03:08] The conversion of Peter, right? That, that, that, we talked about the last chapter. We're gonna take a, Saul this persecutor and turn him into a Christian. But actually what's what we're involved in here is this story. And this is what this vision about, isn't it? That a very, a, a person devout, in a very particular way is going to convert their thinking to, to a, to a totally different way.
[00:03:29] I dunno if you resonate with that.
[00:03:31] John: Beautiful. I, I, I totally do. And in fact, there is a, there is in this sort of comparison even of Cornelius and Peter an awkwardness to the story cuz it, when the Lord directs Cornelius to sort of send to Joppa, he doesn't hesitate.
[00:03:48] David: Hmm.
[00:03:48] John: There's a, this is a Roman centurion totally. Responds to the, to the director of the Lord and, and Nas, we're about to see here's, here's a man of God who walked with Jesus for three plus years and the Lord's telling him to do something and he's struggling with it.
[00:04:07] And again, it, it does show you this remarkable tension in our own spirituality. Are they that just because we know the Lord doesn't mean. We know everything and it doesn't mean we're ready to do everything. And it doesn't even mean we're aligned with everything. I think you can know the Lord and yet be, can I use the language, forgive me, dysfunctional in, in numbers of areas, and I think it's one of the great mistakes we make in discipleship, or because someone's a man of God or a woman of God or a follower of Jesus.
[00:04:40] That must mean that. And every single idea they've got everything absolutely right. And of course, history, biblical history, human history, church history shows us you can be a genuinely enthusiastic and passionate follower of Jesus and get some stuff absolutely catastrophically wrong. And, and again, if, if we're going to, if we're going to.
[00:05:08] Can I say be generous in our journey of Jesus, we, we've gotta be open to that in others, and we've gotta be open to that in ourselves.
[00:05:15] David: Mm
[00:05:15] John: That actually there is still brokenness within me that needs to be transformed and encounter with the Lord. Attitudes within me that need to be changed, behaviors that still need to be refined, belief systems that need to be challenged.
[00:05:31] Even though I've been a follower of Jesus since I was eight years old and I'm now 56. I'm still going, oh my goodness. I, I thought I'd dealt with that, or I thought that attitude wasn't in me. Or an end, the Holy Spirit squeezes you, confronts you challenges, and you go, oh, okay. And I think this is what's going on.
[00:05:52] I, that's why I would resonate with the conversion of Peter, not in the positional salvation sense, but in there is now a conversion of a belief system.
[00:06:02] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:02] John: going to definitely change the trajectory of his life in terms of what he believes about the world and Gentiles in particular.
[00:06:10] David: And at some level, there's a beautiful symmetry with Saul there because both of them are gonna end up in the same place. They're both gonna end up as people who are devote. Jewish Torah followers, one believes in Jesus and follows Torah. One doesn't believe in Jesus and follow Torah. They're both going to encounter the spirit and end up in the same place believing Jesus and welcoming Gentiles to the table.
[00:06:40] And which at some level is why I think it's kind of neat, and I'm sure it's not lost on Luke, that this whole story about. Engagement with Gentiles is often governed in in, in Jewish observants by eating. So one of the really effective ways of keeping Jewish people separate from Gentiles in, in the time of Peter is, is food law.
[00:07:08] Because of your, your food laws mean it's actually. Dangerous if you want to remain ritually clean to eat with gentiles. So generally the process is when we just don't do that. So, and, and I, I have Galatians in the back of my mind that when this really hits a sharp point, it is around can we eat together?
[00:07:27] So it's not lost on me that this whole story for Peter begins, he is hungry. and, uh,
[00:07:34] John: Absolutely. And it's, it's a very, it's a very powerful vision, isn't it? Very stark, very dramatic. This sheet comes down filled with animals, and the Lord says kill and eat, rise, kill, and eat. And I'm, I'm struck by Peter's response, David. He says, Lord, I've never eaten anything.
[00:07:56] Literal transition, common.
[00:07:58] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:58] John: I haven't eaten anything common or unclean. And it's, it's an interesting phraseology. Obviously thinking about the food laws, it, the unclean stuff is, is pretty there, but that, that sense of common commonness and especially when we know who's coming to the door it's a very interesting sort of phraseology.
[00:08:21] And, and of course Peter is responding as you would expect him to respond. He's saying, hold on a minute, Lord you. Leviticus teaches us that we shouldn't eat this stuff. The Torah came from God and you've told us not to eat this stuff, and
[00:08:38] now you're telling me to eat
[00:08:39] David: always a bad strategy, to do an exegesis argument with the Lord. You know what I mean?
[00:08:44] John: with the God who wrote the book. Absolutely. But it, but it, it's a, we, we sometimes, Criticize Peter, but I totally get Peter. Peter is responding out of his belief system. He's responding out of his background. He's responding out of what he is both being taught and practiced all his life,
[00:09:03] but he's been now challenged to do something.
[00:09:07] Different beyond that with this metaphor of food, this picture of kill and eat. And of course it's, it's not that the Lord wants him to kill and eat anything but something's coming, that will mean Peter has to abandon any sense of separation from a truly gentle world.
[00:09:29] David: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, and I think, I mean, I was gonna say, let me read just a line. This is from James Dunn in his book, beginning from Jerusalem he says this don't rush out.
[00:09:42] And I, I, I love this book, but don't rush out and buy it. This is from from page 392, and it's, it's not even near the middle. And so,
[00:09:50] John: Sounds like Jamestown. Yeah
[00:09:52] David: he, he says this, Peter here. Is portrayed as through and through loyal to the ancestral traditions of Second Temple Judaism. Observation of the laws of clean and unclean foods had become a distinctive identifying mark of the Judaism, which defined itself by its opposition to Hellistic and Gentile influences, right?
[00:10:16] So, so what Peter hears in Take and Eat is. Don't be Jewish. Right? This, and we can't, I don't think we can overplay that. This is, this is not, oh, I'm I don't really like mushrooms, right?
[00:10:33] This is not even a vegetarian having a bacon sandwich because the, the smell this is. This is a complete change of identity.
[00:10:46] It's religious. It's social, it's ethnic. Peter. It is difficult for him to get his head around this, but, but I, and I think though even. It's worth saying, John, and you're, and please jump in on this. Either pull me off this train or join me and let's, let's really get this train going. But, but bear in mind, and, and I have a couple of texts that I can, I can share about this, but bear in mind that Peter has grown up.
[00:11:13] And this is from silence, but I think I can gamble on this pretty heavily. Peter has grown up wherein the hero stories that he grew up with are people doing exactly what he's doing in this vision. So think about Daniel, right? Like, think about the story of Daniel. I will not eat that. Right? Well, what?
[00:11:30] And, and Daniel's refusal to eat that. Is the space where the Holy Spirit works, right? I, I was looking at this text here in the Maccabees, and I, I realize not everyone's reading the Maccabees in their morning devotions, but you know, it's a Jewish text, a couple hundred years before the scene that we're talking about right here.
[00:11:47] This situation has happened where violence is coming against the people of Israel. Anyone that follows Tara being killed, if people are being circumstances, so read this, according to the decree, they, they killed women who had their children circumcised and their families. Right.
[00:12:04] And then they hanged, I mean, a bit of a trigger warning, how terrible this is. They hanged the infants on their mother's necks and left them to die. But then, but look at how the people of Israel responded. Many in Israel stood firm and were resolved in their hearts not to eat unclean food. They chose to die rather than be defiled and listened to the language defiled by food or to profane the holy covenant, and and, and so, so there's this. These are the hero stories of Israel, right. Is is doing exactly what Peter does here? No, there is no chance I'm meeting that. I mean, you, you tracking with that
[00:12:40] John: Oh, completely, 100%. And brilliantly points brilliantly made, I think will help our listeners contextualize that. And, and, and this is not just an issue of menu. This is an issue fundamentally of identity, history and distinctiveness. So the, the Lord is pressing a significant button here in Peter's life.
[00:13:06] This is going to get his attention. And, and it is absolutely doing that. And, and you get this incredible re and, and totally understandable reaction from Peter Peter's reaction. It, I, I'm not shocked by it. I'm not dismayed by I'm, I'm going Well, I would be shocked if he just said, oh yeah, okay, that's fine.
[00:13:28] Let's do that. What, what's, what's slightly. Interesting, of course, is that Peter has hung around Jesus for a significant amount of time. Unseen. Jesus pushed the envelope of some of this stuff, but probably not seeing Jesus violate it. The food laws in the context of that. But he has had very interesting people sit at his table and he has, he has sat at very interesting tables, so, so Jesus has been nudging the envelope.
[00:13:57] Jesus has been pushing that. Peter has been exposed to that, but somehow that hasn't then material.
[00:14:05] David: Yeah.
[00:14:06] John: Into Peter Crossing, can I say this literally, or metaphorically crossing the border for himself. So the Lord has to now do something radical to get Peter's attention. And I, I suppose it shows number one, how deeply in green identity can be an is all for good or for.
[00:14:31] David: Yeah.
[00:14:32] John: how seriously the Lord is taking this issue. If the Lord is using a such a controversial image to get Peter's attention, it shows the Lord's really, really serious about this, because potentially the Lord is contradicting himself, is leaving himself open for accusations of sort of, Hey, have you changed your mind?
[00:14:59] On that issue. So this is, this is deeply, deeply controversial at so many levels in, in, and it's really important for us to, I think, contextualize that.
[00:15:09] David: I, I wondered as, as well, like I was thinking about this language of disruption that we talk about and the depth of this disruption, so,
[00:15:18] John: Yeah.
[00:15:19] David: There's a level where I, I, as I was reading the text, I thought, and this is hard for Peter because this is his hero stories, I mean, the Maccabees won't be familiar to, to all Christians for sure, but, but the story of it's hard to get through Sunday School and not at some point and encounter the story of Daniel and, and the eating, I mean, There is even a Daniel fasting program out there.
[00:15:42] Which have you heard of that one? There's the
[00:15:44] Daniel Fast, and I have to say, I have to say John, and if you forgive my, my cynicism on here, it always makes me laugh that the Daniel Fast is promoted as a weight loss loss program. But when you actually read Daniel, they are all heavier at the end of their Daniel fast.
[00:16:00] And, so it does, it, it always makes me chuckle a little bit, but let's not get sidetracked by that. I then found myself occasionally you'll see a particular phrase or a word and. And for whatever reason you think, oh, that's an unusual word. And, and maybe it's not even an unusual word, but I was struck by Peter's response in verse 14 in the Greek, that the word is meos, right?
[00:16:25] By no means, right?
[00:16:26] It's, um, and it struck me that it's not There's a couple of things I wanna say about this, but, but while we're on this conversation, it, it struck me, I, that doesn't feel like the word I expected to see there in the Greek. So I did a little look around and I dunno if you spotted this, but fascinatingly in the step two, again, in the Greek translation of the Old Testament, it is exactly the same word the Ezekiel uses in Ezekiel chapter four.
[00:16:53] Right. And Ezekiel chapter four is a, Can I say weird? Respectfully, sort of prophecy wherein people are cooking bread on human dung. So things are in a very bad place. They're under siege. They're heading towards all sorts of disaster. And, and the Lord says in verse 13, thus shall the people of Israel eat their B bread unclean.
[00:17:17] Among the nations to which I drive them. Right? So, so things are gonna be so bad that the people are gonna have to eat unclean bread, right? And, and the, and Ezekiel response replies in the English translations often to have, Lord. But the, but in the Greek translation of the Old Testament, he says exactly the same word that pizza uses here in, in chapter 10.
[00:17:38] He says, I have never. Filed myself from my youth up until now. I have never eaten what died of itself or was torn by an animals or has carion come into my mouth. Right? I can't help but see just for the sheer humor of it. The Lord's response to that is, oh, okay, then you can cook your bread on cow dung instead of human dung, which I'm not sure, sounds like an overly brilliant promotion.
[00:18:07] It has nothing to do with my point. I just wanted to point out the humor of it. But what I wanted to make the point was, is that, In, it's interesting to me, and I'm, I'm sure you possibly have some thoughts on this, that Peter actually uses the exact words, the, the meos word that he has l learned while I, I'm also working from the premise that Peter knows Ezekiel very well, cuz I think that would be a fair, a fair expectation.
[00:18:33] Do you think that's interesting?
[00:18:34] John: Oh, it's incredible. I'd never seen that before. So yeah, that's, that's, I love that. I love that. Never made that link before. That is, and, and again, it does show you the, the strength of Peter's reaction. If, if you compare it to Ezekiel, I, I've never done anything like that. I'm not gonna start starting.
[00:18:52] And Peter's doing exactly the same thing. It's almost, I've never seen that before. It's just brilliant, David. And if you put those two side by side there, is there, there's almost a mirror image of the reaction to God in the context of this. And, and of course what what's sort of fascinating is that in, in the X story, obviously in the Ezekiel story, God gives a bit of a concession to Ezekiel, a weird concession, but a concession nonetheless.
[00:19:18] Whereas in the X Story, the Lord just remains relentless.
[00:19:22] David: Yes.
[00:19:23] John: I mean, it's quite, it's quite striking. Peter says, not so Lord. Verse 14, and in verse 15, the voice spoke again. It's almost like, okay, let, let, let me tell you again what I want. And, and but, but it was interesting in that, in that second response, the Lord says, don't, don't call unclean.
[00:19:42] David: Yes.
[00:19:43] John: Or, or, or, don't call that what I've cleans. Don't call. So, so there's a sense in which it's not just the Lord has repeated what he said, but he's qualified. What he said, he's, he's challenging that, that actually, hold on a minute. God isn't just asking Peter to eat food that he knows he shouldn't eat, but God is now saying, no, no, I have cleansed something and therefore, because I've cleansed that you shouldn't, you shouldn't call it.
[00:20:14] Anymore. And of course that's hinting to something beyond whatever animals are in the sheet.
[00:20:20] David: Well, this is what I find really stunning about the, the Ezekiel contrast with this story here in Acts 10 is that the, in Ezekiel, the eating of the profane is. A bad thing.
[00:20:38] John: Hmm.
[00:20:39] David: And, and so, so Ezekiel's defense against God is, is seen almost as a, another one of these, like Daniel, like the Maccabees. You're in the right space.
[00:20:47] It is, and this is what I mean by this disruptive sense of the presence. In a weird way, and I'm gonna try and say this as, as properly as I can and, and rescue me from heresy, if you feel me heading that direction. But what's fascinating is Peter makes the biblical point. If Peter is even exactly has Ezekiel in his mind when he uses the word Lord.
[00:21:11] And Actually Peter's right, according to scripture, Peter is right. And the disruption of the spirit is actually things have changed. Peter. Something's different now. It's not that you are wrong, Peter, to want to avoid profane food. It's that I have moved the markers over what qualifies as profane and.
[00:21:36] And I think it's, I mean, I think this is stunning a move of the spirit. And it just, it, there's so much my brain overheats the things I wanna say about that. But, but I just, I, I wanna make that point really clearly that if we can live with that in a, in a, in a way that doesn't turn us all into sort of random readers of the Bible, but Peter is right.
[00:21:58] God is changing things and I'm, wow.
[00:22:01] John: It is. And, and, and I think that's why that second comment in verse 15 is so important. I think we didn't have that. It would, it would fail like, oh, poor Peter, he is like backed into a corner and how, how, how else would he respond? But that qualification in verse 15, don't call impure what I've made clean.
[00:22:23] So, so what has God made clean? Is it, is it, forgive me. Is it the pegs in the. Is it the, is it the unclean animals that are coming down or, or is there something else that God has made clean within this? And, and I, that's the, that's the game changer. So again, the Lord is not asking Peter to break the law.
[00:22:51] He's asking Peter to embrace the new.
[00:22:56] David: Yes.
[00:22:56] John: The new parameters. There's something new here that Peter is being asked to embrace. He's not being asked to do something that God has forbidden him to do. Now, I, I know there's controversy around the food laws generally because of things that Jesus said and how that might be interpreted.
[00:23:12] But if we just, if we just take Peter in his Jewishness as he stands, I think that really is helpful. God qualifies his Peter's pushback. By saying, actually, Peter, there's some stuff I've called clean. And because of that you have to embrace it. So, so in that sense, it's divine authority here to embrace this thing that was once unclean, that is now being called clean.
[00:23:41] And at this stage, of course, if we hadn't have read the, the rest of the book of X, we're still thinking, well, what is this really about? But of course, we, we do know there's a wider, a wider application to that.
[00:23:52] David: And I, I think it's interesting that When Peter Exegetes the dream himself, and it's about 10 verses from now, so we'll get there in about 10 episodes probably when Peter Exegetes the dream himself, that's exactly what he does. So to give people that little jump ahead, he goes, he, he says, He makes the link, and this is the wonderful bit about it.
[00:24:13] If God says that food is okay, then I am not gonna object to come and associate with you because I, I I, my reading of that is that Peter understands that the food laws are what keep the boundary between June and Gentile. If you remove those food laws, you have essentially removed the fence. Right. That's the thing that stopped us hanging out together.
[00:24:33] Now we are gonna. Together. It's what, it's what walls and fences and boundaries do, right? Isn't it? And, and when you take them away, you are saying something. And I think it's interesting that the Lord trusts Peter to exegete the vision properly just by the way the story unfolds. But John, I wonder if it's worth just a very brief moment to talk about this language of commonness.
[00:24:58] I, I think that, I really like the way that N R S V translates it as the word profane because I, I do think in modern tradition, we, we struggle with the idea of purity and, and, and, and cleanliness. We think about them at, at scientific levels, not ritual levels. So we think, oh, it's dirty, right? But actually impure and dirty are not the same thing.
[00:25:24] So I, I, I think a, a better way to phrase it or not a better way to phrase a way, a better way to understand it, is that for something to be common or to be made common is to take away its holiness. Right. It's to say this thing is not holy. So, so whenever in, in, in scripture you're ever hearing about this clean and unclean, think in terms of holy and unholy that's the language you're talking about.
[00:25:50] So, so, so then read this, what God has made. Holy, you must not call unholy.
[00:25:57] And I'm not criticizing the translations here, I'm just trying to broaden our semantic understanding of word. But I think if in your head you read it that way, you get a, a much bigger understanding of how Peter makes the leap to Cornelius then does that, does that
[00:26:13] John: Oh no, that's brilliant. Absolutely. And, and I, I think that that sense of separated under God and not separated under God, this, this, and therefore what is not separate under God, is that sense common.
[00:26:29] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:29] John: Absolutely. And that distinctiveness no, that, that's deeply helpful and I think that that sort of quantifies the language a little bit for us an an understanding of what's going on there.
[00:26:41] No, no, totally, totally. With all of that, and, and of course, but isn't it beautiful then that there's a sense in which explicitly it's been at many levels implicit in the text, but here we have a very explicit statement from the. If I can use this carefully and heard properly that the Gentiles are now holy
[00:27:04] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:05] John: to, to, to use that carefully.
[00:27:07] I don't mean that in the, in the ritualistic sense, but the Gentiles are now, let me forgive this. Kosher. So, so, so they, they are, they are now. Legitimate targets of God's grace and God's mercy. Now, a, a, a true understand of biblical narrative, I think that's always been there, but Peter needs that spelled out to him.
[00:27:32] And, and we reflected couple of podcasts going Jonah,
[00:27:36] David: Mm-hmm. I was just thinking about Jonah.
[00:27:38] John: Absolutely. I, I think Jonah's struggle is Peter's struggle using different language and Jonah's concern that somehow the the gentile nations are, are going to benefit from the loving, kindness and faithfulness of God. And, and he doesn't want that because in Jonah's worldview, they are unclean, they are common, they are unholy, they are pro.
[00:28:09] And, and, and so this explicit statement from the Lord's very powerful, and in the Book of Acts is absolutely seminal because God is making a declaration over the gaem. He's making a declaration over the gentile world, that the gentile world is now clean or acceptable as it were.
[00:28:29] David: I mean, it's interesting in staying within Luke's cannon, what you're saying there. And even thinking about how this is what happens in the story of Jonah, but think about Jesus's take on scripture, so Luke 24 verse 46. This is Jesus's understanding of the Old Testament, right? So the same text that Peter has, Jesus says, thus it is written that the Messiah is to suffer and to rise from the dead on the third day.
[00:28:58] And that repentance and forgiveness of sins is to be proclaimed in his name to all nations. Beginning from Jerusalem, so, so I always think it's interesting that, Jesus's take on, what is the Old Testament doing is it's talking about his death, his resurrection, and repentance of the nations.
[00:29:14] So, And actually if you dive, and Jonah's a perfect example of this. Notice in Jonah, Jonah almost lives out that story in a broken way. He's eaten by a fish, he's spewed up to new life on the shore. He announce he's repentance to the, to the foreign nation, and they, and they respond because there's a level we're in.
[00:29:35] Once you think about, holy and profane, that is actually. The, the, the ancient Jewish worldview sees the world. There's Israel and the nations.
[00:29:48] Right. So, so, you know, there's, they are the priest and there's the priest and the tribes, we are the, we are the priest to, to the nations.
[00:29:56] So Jesus's argument is, the old Testament's been always pushing us towards this pizza. This is, this is where we've been commonly going, but, but it's fascinating, the. That is being sort of taken that, that Peter has to face these moments and, and I wondered John, verse 16 and, and this happened three times and the thing, whatever this kinda sheetlike thing was, is suddenly taken up to heaven.
[00:30:22] And I was curious, it just struck me. This happened? Like what is this? Right? Is it the sheet coming down and going back up or is it the whole exchange? Right? Does Peter, does Peter three times,
[00:30:37] uh, say No, I'm, I'm not eating it right. I've never ate what's profane. And I was playing with this John, right?
[00:30:45] So again I dunno. I always caveat when I do this, but I think people know that we do this, so, but I was playing this, I was thinking about Samuel
[00:30:53] John: Yep.
[00:30:53] David: three times. I'm not quite
[00:30:55] John: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:30:57] David: and then I couldn't, it's a different gospel, so this is not good ex of Jesus. I couldn't help but think about Jesus and Peter's denied Jesus three times.
[00:31:05] Jesus has forgiven Peter three times,
[00:31:08] and so there's just this sense there that three times the spirit says. This is, it does Peter three times saying, ah, and God says, no, what is clean is not profane. And then the beautiful thing is three men then turn up,
[00:31:24] John: Yeah,
[00:31:25] David: three profane people turn up and ask for I, I don't know.
[00:31:28] I'm just having fun with that, John.
[00:31:30] But it's kind of nice, isn't it?
[00:31:31] John: what is it is totally there. And and, and I think those two threes in this passage are very significant, I think. And I think, again, the echo into the world of Peter, A Jewish world where encounters in threes these ideas, triple emphasis and Peter's own experience, I think. I think this really is, and of course when you get something.
[00:31:56] Repeat it. It's, it's like the Bible turning volume up on, and it's, it's, it's, there really is a tussle going on here. Something is happening, which is quite profound. And, and, and I love, I love the fact that verse 17 says Now, now is Peter sort of pondered this or wondered about this, reflected on this. He's wrestling in his own mind with this.
[00:32:20] Clearly he knows that in this trance like state, he's had a definite encounter with God. He knows the Lord has spoken. Dare I say, it could. Could it be the voice of the Jesus that Peter walked with? So he knows this voice. He knows it is the Lord.
[00:32:39] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:40] John: he also knows there's a level in which I'm right on this, but I can't square the circle.
[00:32:46] So he's thinking about it, pondering about it, and then just at that moment, three men arrive. Now, that could just be purely, purely coincidental that three men just happened to arrive. When Peter is wrestling with the. On his roof still and he's just gone What on earth? And trying to square that circle.
[00:33:13] But, but it could be one of those gorgeous little god incidental inclusions where, you know, this three that has just happened to him, coincides with three gentil.
[00:33:26] David: Yeah.
[00:33:27] John: That are now standing, knocking at Simon's door, asking to come in. I, I, I do love, at the very least, the poetic symmetry of it. But I think it's, I think it's more significant than poetic symmetry.
[00:33:39] I think there is something in providential here that the three is not an accident.
[00:33:48] David: And I, I wanted to say, I, I do think, I do think the Lord here is a reference to the voice of Jesus. It's
[00:33:55] simply,
[00:33:56] I I, mean, I, I read some commentators and they're like, well, it could just be, sir. It could, it's that Lord Mark of respect, but, We've drawn the parallel between chapter nine and chapter 10.
[00:34:06] We've got Paul Saul, who are you, Lord Anais. Here I am Lord. Then we have Cornelius he, what is it, Lord? And now we have Peter. No way, Lord. So I think I, I, I'm very comfortable sitting with this is the voice of Jesus simply because. By the time you get to First Corinthians, Paul at least is telling you that his encounter is with Jesus.
[00:34:32] and, and and Luke has at no point corrected that Paul's voice is any different than the three other voices we hear throughout this text. So I, I would resonate with that, that, that this is, this is Peter having an argument with Jesus, which is something he is familiar to doing.
[00:34:50] John: It. He has, he's had a few before. He has, he's had a few before. And, and again, the gorgeous, magnificent patience and can I use the word properly, tolerance of the Lord. The Lord is slow to anger and a pounding and loving kindness of faithfulness Back to Jonah back to our echo of that, that five part confession of the Lord, and, and here he's demonstrating.
[00:35:16] Compassion and grace to the Gentiles, and he's slow to anger. And relentless and faithfulness and loving kindness to Peter. I mean, he could just knock Peter off the roof and say, right, Peter, get over it. Lad, it's what I want you to do. But he's working with Peter and he's letting Peter push back. And I, I, I don't know if you noticed this, David, this is, I am definitely overcooking the three here, but I did love, I did love when the, when the three men come to the door and they explain why they're there, they.
[00:35:51] They, they define or describe Cornelius in three ways, and we've had this echo before. They describe him as righteous. There's a thought thinking about holy and unholy, clean and unclean. They describe him as God fearing, and they describe him as being well testified about or respect.
[00:36:19] David: Yes.
[00:36:20] John: By the Jewish community.
[00:36:22] Look, look at the language, the nation of the Jews,
[00:36:25] David: Hmm hmm.
[00:36:26] John: and you go, oh, oh, oh, I love that. Oh, here's Peter going, no way. There's no way I am eating anything unclean. And the three men pop up and they describe Cornelius and Wes that. Peter's gone. Whoa, how can I, how can I argue against this? Because what's been described to me in three ways is a dynamic almost confirmation or affirmation that God's made something clean that previously. I, I, I'm probably overstretching up, but I do like it. I do like, again, the poetic symmetry of it within the text.
[00:37:06] David: Yes it is. It is. It's wonderful actually, isn't it? It really is. It is wonderful and I love the subtle. Adjustment of the description as well. And that, that he is in the, we first meet him, he's devout, God fearing, gives arms and praise, and here he's upright, God-fearing and well-spoken of.
[00:37:28] Uh,
[00:37:28] John: am well
[00:37:28] David: you know, this, we're seeing this kind of, this, this fascinating.
[00:37:31] I mean, it's quite acclaim, well stuck spoken of by the whole Jewish nation. I mean this, Cornelius really is a fascinating character, isn't he?
[00:37:39] John: Which, which is a little, there's a lovely little echo there, which Peter May have recognized. The Centurion who approaches Jesus about his servant.
[00:37:47] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:37:48] John: And it's Jews who represent this man, and they say, he's built our synagogue. He's a good man.
[00:37:54] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:37:56] John: So, so they're sort of saying to Jesus, Jesus, if you could do a favor for a Gentile, he's, he's probably worthy of a respect, and you get this lovely.
[00:38:04] And I've, I've been the Yad Vahe, where you, the, the Holocaust Museum in Jerusalem where you walk along the avenue of the righteous and the avenue of the righteous is a, is a place dedicated to gentiles
[00:38:16] David: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:17] John: God in seeking to support our help the Jewish nation. So, so there is a tradition of recognizing.
[00:38:23] David: yes.
[00:38:25] John: Good people and, and we've, and, and as maybe, as maybe the servants of Cornelius rock up to Peter and here and Peter hears this, the triple description. Me. Oh, oh, I've heard that before. I've seen this before. I haven't. Maybe God is saying something about them. Maybe. Maybe that connection to the centurion and the gospels.
[00:38:50] A little seed that would come to harvest Nai and Simon, the Tanner's house. I don't know. I, I, I love those little connections. I love those. I if, if the Lord is not acting randomly, then that little encounter with the centurion in Jesus, in the gospels where Peter happened to listen to the whole thing, has to come to harvest at a moment like this when Peter's now confronted with his own centurian and he's told he's respected by the whole Jewish nation, Peter.
[00:39:17] David: the way that Luke presents him, devout God-fearing arms generously praise constantly, and then he's described as upright, God-fearing, well spoken of, and has had an angelic visitor. What this does, I think is, is it tells. That Cornelius is not a pagan, right? If, if you'll allow me to use that,
[00:39:46] that term.
[00:39:46] John: Yeah, yeah,
[00:39:47] David: Therefore, and this is the trap, if I can say that playfully, the only problem Peter can have with Cornelius. Is that he's not Jewish, right. Because Cornelius is ticking all of the boxes. And two Peter's credit, he gets this right?
[00:40:05] That this is not, that, that, that I am cornered If I, the only thing that's preventing me from welcoming this person is, is this, so this,
[00:40:15] and this is the thing that the spirit is targeting that I need to change.
[00:40:19] John: Ah, that's brilliant. That's brilliant. That's, that's magnificently put. I love that. I love that. I, I love the way you've summarized that, which, which then seems to explain verse 23, so here's a man that, that won't rise and eat. Sort of the unclean animals, and yet it says these men become his guests at the house of Simon.
[00:40:41] And again, back to that idea of Gentiles, the guests of a Jew in the house of a man who works with the skins of dead animals, it's all going on there. It's just beautiful, isn't it?
[00:40:51] David: The Greek is, I think, and I think it's gorgeous Greek here. So the NIV says, so Peter invited them in and gave them lodgings, right? But the Greek slightly, if I was
[00:41:03] attempt literally it, it says, Then And calling them in.
[00:41:08] John: called in.
[00:41:09] David: Calling them in. He made them guests.
[00:41:11] Right. And, and it's, it's like, it's only four words in the Greek verse 23.
[00:41:16] But I well, that first clause of
[00:41:17] verse 23 That it starts the next, it splits into the next section, but just a gorgeous four words calling them in. He made them guests
[00:41:26] John: I love that.
[00:41:27] David: Like, oh my goodness.
[00:41:28] John: Yeah. I, I just saw that it's absolutely beautiful having called in. Yeah. So, so it's, it is, it's, it's, it's like, okay, Peter's, go on. Right. This is not just something that I have to tolerate. I have enough tore embrace and that calling in is just absolutely beautiful there. I.
[00:41:48] David: And, and notice, notice the Greek word of, is, is is xk where the same verbal route, where we get the word Xenos xenophobia. Xenophobia is the fear of. Of strangers. I, I, I'm sure I've said this before in the podcast, but it's worth repeating. So we know the Greek word for fear of strangers.
[00:42:08] It's, it's xenophobia. We don't know the Greek word for the love of strangers, which is zania. To love the stranger. It always gets translated as hospitality. And I love that idea that hospitality is to love the stranger. And here Peter offers them stranger welcome. And I mean, yeah, it just, it's gorgeous and, and perhaps lands this section beautifully.
[00:42:33]
