WEBVTT
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00:00:04.959Hey everybody, I just want to say welcome to the True Faced podcast.
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00:00:06.639My name is Benjamin Crawshaw.
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00:00:09.919I am the director of member engagement at True Faced.
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00:00:19.120And wherever you are, whatever you have going on in your life right now, thank you for just taking some time to watch this podcast or listen to this podcast.
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00:00:20.640We're excited about it.
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00:00:24.320We got all kinds of horsepower on this podcast today.
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00:00:28.239We have Bruce McNichol, Jason Paymer, Josh Silverberg.
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00:00:31.760I don't think I have time to go through the bio of you three guys.
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00:00:34.799So it's like a page and a half of things I could say.
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00:00:43.200You know, the TV shows, the movies, the music, authors, speakers, entrepreneurs, songwriters, on and on it goes.
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00:00:51.119I'm just going to say, you guys watching, you can Google these guys, or we'll include some information around them in and around this podcast.
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00:00:52.159But I just don't have time.
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00:00:55.359There's just too much to say about how awesome the three of you are.
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00:01:05.200But we are going to start a little bit here with Chain Reaction, which is how in the world do the three of you guys come together and why are the three of you on this podcast together?
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00:01:11.760So, Bruce, I'll start with you, the pastor emeritus, uh, the the uh uh TrueFace president emeritus.
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00:01:15.680How did you and Jason Paymer get connected originally?
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00:01:19.840Yeah, that's a that's a tough question.
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00:01:32.879I thought it was the heart of man movie, and maybe it was, but you also did an endorsement on a book that we put out uh called the uh The Cure and Parents.
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00:01:49.359And this book says it came out in 2016, and Jason, as uh the executive producer says, as young parents, we felt like we've been given a cheat book on parenting, not only for our kids, but for our own hearts.
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00:01:54.799And so I don't even know the first year that we met, but I do know.
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00:01:57.519Real quick, that that book wrecked me.
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00:02:00.719I read it on a flight from I think Phoenix to Seattle.
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00:02:13.199I think I was at the book launch in Phoenix, and I remember reading it, and I was cuddled up by the window, fogging up the window, trying not to let the gentleman next to me see my sobs because it was it was profound.
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00:02:15.919So if you have not had a chance to read Current Parents, you gotta read it.
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00:02:18.560And use code PAMER at checkout.
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00:02:19.439That would be sweet.
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00:02:20.240Yeah, code.
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00:02:24.560Can we get that uh set up real quick, Bruce?
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00:02:24.719Thanks.
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00:02:26.159Yeah, we'll take care of it.
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00:02:28.080Good, good, yeah.
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00:02:43.520Uh but I did remember meeting uh very thoroughly Jason and some of his colleagues, like Jens Jacob, Ben Hollywood, and and Eric Esau, director of The Heart of Man.
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00:02:46.479And these were young filmmakers beyond the years.
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00:02:49.759I think it was like 2015, 14.
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00:02:50.639I don't know, Jason.
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00:02:51.120What do you think?
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00:02:52.080Uh yeah, like 14.
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00:02:52.800Yeah, 14.
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00:02:56.319I think Jason was maybe 19 or 20 by then.
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00:03:00.800And uh, you know, they were generous to us.
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00:03:09.439They they flew John Lynch and myself up to Bellevue or Redmond, Washington, uh, and did an interview.
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00:03:13.520And then I realized, oh, Paul Young's on this movie.
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00:03:22.400And uh, oh, Dan Alander's on this movie, and all these, and and I realized, oh, Jason is a galvanizer, which Josh is also.
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00:03:25.039And I but then I said, you know what?
00:03:25.199 -->
00:03:29.759Now you got John Amin, now you got so many old white guys on this film.
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00:03:35.759I will pay for a second interview if you would get a young woman of color somehow.
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00:03:37.680Well, this is the way Jason works.
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00:03:40.159So he gets Jackie Hill Perry to replace me.
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00:03:45.280I thought that was uh a little humbling, but exactly what we asked for.
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00:03:52.719And then that movie, uh uh just that True Face Got to be a part of it is uh an honor.
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00:03:58.400And it's been seen by millions of people around the world, in theaters and out.
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00:04:05.280And so I've just loved working with Jason so much uh ever since those days.
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00:04:08.240Now it's over 10 years uh at least.
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00:04:09.439Yeah.
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00:04:15.759So speaking of parenting, Jason, that you're you're in a different part of the world right now.
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00:04:21.439Do it some parenting because we can hear the uh we can just hear the the atmosphere behind you right now.
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00:04:25.839So tell everybody where you're at that you're just I hope it's not too uh the cicadas.
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00:04:29.279Josh was Josh was just in this part of the world with his family.
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00:04:30.720Josh, do you like the cicadas?
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00:04:31.519Did you hear him?
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00:04:32.399No, I didn't.
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00:04:33.439You didn't have him?
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00:04:34.800Didn't you hear him?
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00:04:35.439No.
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00:04:36.639Oh my gosh.
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00:04:39.839There there's like, I don't know, four million of them around me right now.
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00:04:48.399Um yeah, I'm in Athens, my wife is Greek, we met in Greece, I attended a Bible college here, and we have produced four kids.
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00:04:55.040Matthias is 12, Daphne's nine, Eliana's four, and Melina's two, so three girls and a boy.
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00:04:58.480And um that that book has been a guidebook.
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00:05:17.120I mean, I when we've driven uh you know on hour-long road trips around Greece, and I find myself reacting to my wife's uh counsel on how I should drive, I immediately flash back to uh various chapters or scenes in that book, and I'm like, how should I handle this moment?
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00:05:22.399Now I will say I don't always properly uh process it.
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00:05:25.120It's some it triggers me in a unique way.
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00:05:27.279Um but yeah, I'm here in Greece.
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00:05:28.879We try to get here every summer.
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00:05:34.800Um I will just say on the Heart of Man journey, you know, Bruce was a uh confidant, a mentor.
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00:05:44.560He helped structure the story arc, um, he helped us in distribution, he secured the bulk of the marketing dollars for the for the nationwide theatrical release.
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00:05:47.839He helped me steward it to about 30 countries and theaters.
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00:05:57.040Uh he was incredibly generous with his, you know, four or five decades worth of best in class relationships, and he opened up every door wide.
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00:06:07.279We shared many meals together, and really, I mean, he fundamentally shifted the way I see God the Father and the way that I hopefully my kids can see me in the way that I'm attached to God the Father.
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00:06:08.720So Bruce is a dear friend.
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00:06:10.000I have very few mentors.
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00:06:15.199I have a great earthly dad, and I have very few mentors, but Bruce is one of them and uh love the guy.
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00:06:18.240Would go in the middle of a field and build a fence with him.
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00:06:19.759Um, and that's kind of what we did here.
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00:06:24.000Although Josh built a very elegant uh villa, not just a fence.
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00:06:26.319Um and then I met Josh.
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00:06:28.480Am I transitioning or is that too much talking?
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00:06:28.639Yeah.
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00:06:29.040Yeah.
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00:06:34.399I mean, there's a lot of follow-up questions I want to ask about what you're talking about, but for right now, yeah, let's let's let's talk about Josh.
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00:06:37.759Forgive me for the long-winded sort of No, it's great.
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00:06:40.319Hey, I made a film called After Death.
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00:06:43.199We released it with Angel Studios in October of 23.
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00:06:47.759It's a film on near-death experiences, the phenomenon of like what is afterlife?
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00:06:49.360Is there anything beyond or not?
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00:06:57.920So we we we followed the science, we followed about five stories of people that died, saw some sort of afterlife who came back, one of which had a hellish near-death experience.
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00:07:07.360And we were finishing up the film and thinking about the music for the end credit uh scene, which is the most important musical cue in a film.
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00:07:14.079And I think we were on a call, I think Jens reached out to Chris Kilala of Jesus Culture, and Chris immediately connected us to Josh.
00:07:14.160 -->
00:07:20.800And unbeknownst to us, Josh had his own near-death experience just the year before that, which I'll let Josh get into.
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00:07:23.439So he he had a connection to the material.
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00:07:30.319But this this guy is um he's a killer in every beautiful way.
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00:07:35.120He's excellent, he's kind, he's generous, he's not pretentious.
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00:07:39.439His his credentials could have lasted the entire opening of the show.
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00:07:47.040Um, there's 40 albums across all of Christendom that have hit platinum, and he's got one of them, and you would never know that from his lips.
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00:07:49.920So that's why I always tell people about it, because I'm just so proud of him.
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00:07:56.160He so he did the After Death uh Inspired By soundtrack and the end credit song.
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00:08:12.720So he produced an amalgamation of like six artists coming together to create tracks for the Inspired By album uh for After Death, and that kicked off a friendship and a relationship, and he's been on multiple films with me, and now he's breaking into film and the way he did music.
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00:08:18.240And so this is gonna be the the film producer you guys will do podcasts with, and I'll just gonna be a fan.
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00:08:20.959Maybe I can like carry his bag.
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00:08:23.519I actually kind of want to sing.
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00:08:26.560Maybe if you can have me sing on the next track, that would be okay.
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00:08:27.040That's it.
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00:08:27.519I'm done.
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00:08:28.319I'm done.
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00:08:28.959Oh well.
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00:08:32.399All right, just wow, podcast over.
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00:08:33.919So that's great.
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00:08:44.639But that after death film is one of the highest, I I think I got this right, the highest volume faith-based documentaries on Netflix.
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00:08:48.879And uh so these two guys, they they they make things happen.
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00:08:52.240So a privilege to be with them on this project.
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00:08:54.799Josh started cutting you off, man.
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00:08:55.919Josh, you're up, man.
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00:08:56.320You're finally.
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00:08:58.559We get now, you be we get the chance to hear from you.
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00:08:59.840You gotta sing it though.
00:09:00.000 -->
00:09:01.279You can't you gotta hung or something.
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00:09:04.480How do I meet these guys?
00:09:04.799 -->
00:09:07.440It was at the Think Conference that I met Bruce.
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00:09:15.200Jason invited me to it, or through Bruce's kind gesture of supplying tickets.
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00:09:17.360I don't, you know, I don't know if I have my facts straight.
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00:09:18.320You guys can correct me.
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00:09:24.559But anyway, I showed up for free, invited by these guys, and had the time of my life.
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00:09:36.720Um, I wasn't thinking, like I thought it was just gonna possibly end there, or maybe I would see these guys later at some other thing with Bruce and the True Face crew.
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00:09:39.360Um, but I guess we couldn't quit each other.
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00:09:40.399We're like, you know what?
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00:09:42.960I just miss you, so let's do something.
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00:10:09.039Um so we, yeah, we Jason had a great idea to how do we extend the life of the path, you know, and I know like the path had an and a book, an animated series, like a lot of material surrounding the concepts and chapters, um, but there wasn't any music tied to it.
00:10:09.279 -->
00:10:22.799So um yeah, Jason had a great idea to to do a sync camp in Nashville, and we brought together just amazing talent, lots of artists that you guys would love and know, and they're coming out soon.
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00:10:29.840Um and yeah, we got to do a song for each chapter of the book, so it's really special.
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00:10:40.480And these artists got to embody really the character and the themes um that are portrayed in each chapter.
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00:10:46.320Um, and it was a really great creative experience for all the artists involved as well.
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00:10:55.039So we had, I mean, I know people will enjoy it listening to the music, but I think the best part was making music.
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00:10:58.799So which is not always the case, right, Trosh?
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00:10:58.960Yeah.
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00:11:00.159That's right.
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00:11:02.639No, sometimes that's the worst part.
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00:11:03.759Yeah.
00:11:04.399 -->
00:11:04.799Yeah.
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00:11:11.840Everybody who's had anything to do with the project is has nothing but good things to say about Josh.
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00:11:14.960Um, just you know, you don't have to say it, Josh.
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00:11:18.320Everybody else says it on behalf of you, which is amazing.
00:11:18.480 -->
00:11:29.679So, Bruce, for all the people out there watching and listening who just have no idea what we mean when we say the path, can you give a little backstory on that project um and and what we mean when we say that?
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00:11:30.720Yes.
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00:11:31.679Yes.
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00:11:57.919Well, it it was maybe four years ago or so that um the staff and some of the board members and ambassadors of the TrueFace clan started wondering if we could create a discipleship book for the questions that were being asked, not by uh boomers, Xers, even millennials sometimes, but by Gen Z.
00:11:58.240 -->
00:12:07.919So we we asked hundreds of these people from around 14 to 29 now, somewhere in there, um, these questions.
00:12:08.080 -->
00:12:23.200And of course, we we've been reading, so we knew the questions were around anxiety and loneliness and and uh purpose and identity and friendship or lack of and all the comparison on social, all that.
00:12:23.679 -->
00:12:32.720So um we began to write another story, and that's what mostly uh True Face has done is write stories.
00:12:33.360 -->
00:12:50.320And um and so it was about four years ago, I think Benjamin, you can correct me on this, that we the four of us started in in uh kind of a serious way writing and doing uh writing retreats and so uh back in in Atlanta.
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00:13:06.720And um it it it occurred to us that Kurt Thompson, one of our friends who is uh uh a psychiatrist but blends scripture and neuroscience so well uh that what he had said is what we were trying to do.
00:13:06.799 -->
00:13:14.240And he says, um, we we are all born into this world looking for someone who is looking for us.
00:13:14.639 -->
00:13:20.639And this mode of searching will continue the rest of our lives.
00:13:20.879 -->
00:13:26.879And we realized this whole generation is looking for someone, looking for them.
00:13:27.200 -->
00:13:36.879And that was the prayer that we hoped this book, which then turned into you know music and animation and so forth, would do for them.
00:13:37.120 -->
00:13:55.360And that people who especially work in these categories like young life or crew or university or youth pastors or classical academies or charter schools, that those would be the kind of people like Jason and Josh are.
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00:14:05.279When I think of Jason and Josh, just to jump on this, I think of Barnabas the hero in the New Testament, because he saw people.
00:14:06.000 -->
00:14:11.600And he saw Paul long before a lot of other people wanted to see Paul when he was Saul.
00:14:11.840 -->
00:14:14.799And and this is what these two guys do.
00:14:14.960 -->
00:14:21.360They see the people that they're ministering to and with and the audiences.
00:14:21.679 -->
00:14:31.519And so, like even when I was at songwriting camp uh with Jason and Josh and Lana, I get I mentioned Lana, associate producer's done so much.
00:14:32.080 -->
00:14:44.080Um I would talk to some of these songwriters and musicians and artists, and they would tell me how Josh had walked with them through some of their toughest patches in life.
00:14:44.320 -->
00:14:56.080And and uh then they would tell me what he walked through with them, how he prayed with them, stayed in the room, he didn't leave, he he was he he's a shepherd, he's a pastor, he's a Barnabas.
00:14:56.240 -->
00:15:02.320Um he's not just galvanizing like Barnabas does in in the New Testament, but he's doing that.
00:15:02.559 -->
00:15:08.159And Jason has done that all through, I could name so many names uh over these years.
00:15:08.320 -->
00:15:10.799So that's where the path kind of originated.
00:15:10.879 -->
00:15:21.679And then Benjamin, you and Brittany really did a lot of the heavy lifting, uh, especially in the story, um, and and then later the guide notes uh in this book.
00:15:21.919 -->
00:15:26.159So I just want to thank you um for doing that.
00:15:26.320 -->
00:15:36.080Um yeah, so uh you you talk a lot about story, and and Jason, that's part of what your life work has been involved in is telling stories.
00:15:36.240 -->
00:15:39.279So we we've referred to the path.
00:15:39.519 -->
00:15:42.399Some of the people watching this are familiar with the cure.
00:15:42.639 -->
00:15:48.159Uh we see Bruce wearing his Bose Cafe shirt, uh, which we'll have to get back to in just a second.
00:15:48.320 -->
00:15:49.919Um, the heart of man.
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00:16:06.720Jason, when you came in contact with TrueFace, and again, for people who are watching or listening and are unfamiliar, when we talk about these stories, these quote-unquote True Face stories, what is it about the message of TrueFace that kind of drew you in originally?
00:16:09.120 -->
00:16:16.320Uh I think it was the the grace, the kindness, the wisdom, the the utter lack of shame.
00:16:16.720 -->
00:16:23.039Um you know, there's a couple of phrases that these guys have used over the years that have really stuck with me.
00:16:23.200 -->
00:16:34.399You know, one of them is um being seen at my worst and loved the most, you know, and to to do that over the arc of multiple decades of friendship and partnership.
00:16:34.559 -->
00:16:38.240Um I mean, that is that is where everything is tested.
00:16:38.399 -->
00:16:40.720And that's where the flames are hottest over time.
00:16:40.960 -->
00:16:52.080And um the you know, this idea of uh trusting God versus pleasing God, the I you know, there's two paths that that really uh has gone around the world multiple times and come back.
00:16:52.320 -->
00:16:57.840This idea of being at the beginning of these two paths, this trailhead, and they the the beginning of the path looks the same.
00:16:58.080 -->
00:17:04.079Trusting God, pleasing God, but as you make your way up, you'll find that they are very divergent and they don't lead you to the same place.
00:17:04.160 -->
00:17:09.680And that you know, that that um is deeply profound for someone that's not a parent.
00:17:09.759 -->
00:17:18.799It is certainly profound for someone that is a parent, because it is like, how do I have my kids trust me and not just want to please me?
00:17:19.920 -->
00:17:21.359Because that's really it's on me.
00:17:21.519 -->
00:17:23.599Like I I set the table and stage for that.
00:17:23.759 -->
00:17:32.640So it's like well then okay, and the relation between me and God the Father, what has he done to sort of set the table for trust versus pleasing?
00:17:32.720 -->
00:17:39.519And why is my instinct to try to please or hide and not trust and be fully seen?
00:17:39.599 -->
00:17:40.480You know, why is that?
00:17:40.559 -->
00:17:46.079And so I was exposed to, I mean, I grew up in the church, but they had new language for things.
00:17:46.240 -->
00:17:50.720Um new language for old and ancient realities and truths.
00:17:50.880 -->
00:17:59.519Well, they weren't making up new truth, new reality, but they had really beautiful, elegant language and rappers to to to to put around it that uh made it digestible in a way.
00:17:59.599 -->
00:18:03.119And this is what they do with books and their speaking, and and this is what the path is.
00:18:03.279 -->
00:18:14.799It's what you guys put on paper that allowed these artists for some of them for the first time to create because they were inspired by others' creativity.
00:18:15.039 -->
00:18:26.000And you know, Josh gave the the chapter to every room before they got there, and I think that created a whole nother layer of beauty and marination um in the story.
00:18:26.160 -->
00:18:27.359Sorry, I'm going off again.
00:18:27.519 -->
00:18:28.079Just cut me off.
00:18:28.400 -->
00:18:28.960Just stop.
00:18:29.680 -->
00:18:30.720No, it's great, man.
00:18:30.799 -->
00:18:31.359It's it's great.
00:18:31.519 -->
00:18:40.319We the last podcast we had Mike Donahey on, and he we were asking him a little bit of his origin with Treeface and that idea you're talking about about being known.
00:18:40.400 -->
00:18:42.880Uh he mentioned that phrase, is that all you got?
00:18:43.359 -->
00:18:49.039Which is a uh from the cure where someone shares something that they're struggling with, and somebody says, Is that all you got?
00:18:49.279 -->
00:19:01.839As opposed to you know putting the mask back on or trying to you know manage someone through performance, um, but to lean in where someone can be known at their worst and and loved in a major way for who they are.
00:19:02.079 -->
00:19:03.279So yeah.
00:19:03.599 -->
00:19:04.160I love that.
00:19:04.319 -->
00:19:09.839So, Jason, how did how did Josh get get and his talents get brought into this project?
00:19:10.000 -->
00:19:16.559The path was written, we're doing some other things around it, and all of a sudden someone has an idea for an album, right?
00:19:17.119 -->
00:19:19.680Well, so Bruce and I were sitting on a patio having a cigar.
00:19:19.839 -->
00:19:20.559Bruce was not.
00:19:20.720 -->
00:19:22.880I'm um I'm given to certain vices.
00:19:23.039 -->
00:19:24.559I'll be but let me be really clear.
00:19:24.799 -->
00:19:29.200I think I had like, I don't know, 10 cigars in my entire life before I moved to Franklin, Tennessee.
00:19:29.279 -->
00:19:34.160And I've had, let's just say, more than that since arriving in nine months.
00:19:34.319 -->
00:19:47.839So um I was we're having a cigar at a place, a curated place for the curious, for creatives, for for uh kingdom entrepreneurs, a place called Franklin Social in Franklin.
00:19:48.079 -->
00:19:55.519Um we're on the balcony, and I think I told Bruce, like, hey, I'm I'll read this book once or twice, I'll go back to the red lines.
00:19:55.759 -->
00:20:02.400But if you had songs that embodied the essence of this book, I would listen to those tracks hundreds of times.
00:20:02.640 -->
00:20:17.759I'm like, so um Bruce and his sort of infinite wisdom and incredible elasticity didn't just shut it down, even though he probably thought about the million ways it wouldn't work, or shouldn't work, or couldn't work, or it's one of the many things that was, you know, supposed to take focus.
00:20:17.920 -->
00:20:33.519But the one thing I've seen be true over the last decade and a half, I've known him, is when he when he I'll say this, when he feels like the Holy Spirit's guiding his movement and then he locks in, there's really there was no question in my mind once he locked in that it was gonna happen.
00:20:33.759 -->
00:20:39.119And it actually, the scope increased from when we first talked about it, and I think became something so beautiful.
00:20:39.359 -->
00:20:43.279But as he locked in and was like, okay, look, what does it look like to explore it?
00:20:43.359 -->
00:20:46.799There was nobody else in my mind other than Josh Silverberg.
00:20:46.960 -->
00:20:52.000Again, it would it wouldn't be enough if he was uh kind and thoughtful.
00:20:52.240 -->
00:20:58.079He has to be excellent, and he is beyond that in this realm um and is becoming that in the film realm as well.
00:20:58.240 -->
00:21:08.960And so I was just like, okay, who's who has the regard, sits at the city gates of Nashville, has a reputation with no ill repute, and has done it at the highest level.
00:21:09.119 -->
00:21:13.039And there's like a very small list of people, and and Josh is on that list.
00:21:13.119 -->
00:21:17.599So when I hit up Josh, he I don't know who you're talking about, but they sound cool.
00:21:17.759 -->
00:21:19.039I would love to meet them.
00:21:20.240 -->
00:21:23.519You should introduce me to whoever you're talking about.
00:21:23.920 -->
00:21:25.039To that version of Josh.
00:21:25.440 -->
00:21:26.000Oh no, okay.
00:21:26.079 -->
00:21:26.799Now you go, Josh.
00:21:26.880 -->
00:21:29.440So you maybe describe when we had that first call.
00:21:31.359 -->
00:21:34.160On the album creation or when we first met?
00:21:34.480 -->
00:21:37.680No, no, when I reached out to you about the idea of the path album.
00:21:38.240 -->
00:21:39.200Oh, yeah.
00:21:39.440 -->
00:21:40.160The first call.
00:21:40.319 -->
00:21:41.599What was the first call?
00:21:41.839 -->
00:21:44.319It was Josh, you better do this or else.
00:21:44.480 -->
00:21:45.599No, it wasn't that.
00:21:46.720 -->
00:21:58.880Here like this is I just love talking honestly and transparently about everything and the journey of this record to me.
00:22:00.480 -->
00:22:03.759Is seems to mirror so much the heart of God.
00:22:04.319 -->
00:22:08.160And like Jason for me is such a dear friend.
00:22:08.400 -->
00:22:16.319I just met Bruce, but right away instantly could tell what a father he is, what a mentor, like legend.
00:22:16.880 -->
00:22:22.559Um within one sentence, you can feel the love, Bruce, that you have for people.
00:22:22.799 -->
00:22:24.559Like it's just palpable.
00:22:25.039 -->
00:22:31.039And so when Jason asked me to be a part of it, to do, you know, consider this.
00:22:31.440 -->
00:22:37.680For me, it was there was no, it was just, I want to do this because these guys are awesome.
00:22:37.920 -->
00:22:43.680But I had zero expectation of like, oh, we're gonna be able to get awesome people.
00:22:43.839 -->
00:22:46.240It's gonna be the most amazing project.
00:22:46.480 -->
00:22:57.920Like that, I had zero uh motivation on a career standpoint, you know, like let me, like this is gonna add to my resume or whatever.
00:22:58.160 -->
00:23:00.000That that did not exist.
00:23:00.160 -->
00:23:07.680All the only thing that exists is, hey, these people that I just want to do something with is asking me to do something that I like doing.
00:23:07.920 -->
00:23:19.039Like, of course, you know, and I I saw it initially as me just giving this is my give back ministry moment, you know, truthfully.
00:23:19.440 -->
00:23:24.960And then very quickly, people started to gather and artists started coming.
00:23:25.039 -->
00:23:26.960And I was like, wait, wait, what?
00:23:27.200 -->
00:23:28.480This person's jumping on.
00:23:28.640 -->
00:23:38.319We got Franny Cash now, we got Mike Donahue, we got Bart Miller, if we're allowed to say that, if I'm letting the cat out of the bag, like we have all these amazing artists.
00:23:38.720 -->
00:23:40.960We should name everybody now, though, that you named like three of them.
00:23:41.680 -->
00:23:42.640So I don't make people mad.
00:23:43.039 -->
00:23:46.480They're gonna listen to it and they're gonna be like, where's my yeah, right?
00:23:46.720 -->
00:23:47.920I have to I have to look.
00:23:48.000 -->
00:23:54.000I'm like gonna forget people, but we can probably in post, you guys can just like put us the name.
00:23:54.480 -->
00:23:54.640I don't know.
00:23:54.799 -->
00:23:56.640Yeah, I got on the screen, just list them all real quick.
00:23:56.960 -->
00:23:57.279Yeah.
00:23:57.759 -->
00:24:02.880So it became like my favorite sync camp.
00:24:03.039 -->
00:24:04.720It was so beautiful.
00:24:05.039 -->
00:24:10.400There I think there's only one artist there that's not like more of a name.
00:24:10.640 -->
00:24:15.519Um, and that was my favorite session and song of the whole thing.
00:24:15.839 -->
00:24:25.759Um and yeah, it was just the the gifts of God along the way were just kept building and building.
00:24:26.000 -->
00:24:28.960Um, and I just can't wait for it to come out.
00:24:29.039 -->
00:24:30.960We're in the mixing phase actually right now.
00:24:31.039 -->
00:24:39.119We have four songs mixed, and yeah, we're just we're wrapping up, and I just couldn't be more thrilled with the whole thing.
00:24:39.279 -->
00:24:42.240Like it it totally flipped on me, you know.
00:24:42.319 -->
00:24:53.519Like I did not expect to work with artists of that level to have music of this level, and the whole way everyone just wants to jump in.
00:24:53.599 -->
00:24:57.119Like they're going above, you know, Holland, for example.
00:24:57.440 -->
00:25:09.440She was in the middle of tour, she snuck in before sound check to, you know, no one's gonna do that on tour, no one's recording when you know how tiring and stressful tour is.
00:25:09.599 -->
00:25:13.839She was so happy to come in and sing her vocal for the song.
00:25:14.000 -->
00:25:15.920And I'm just like, wow.
00:25:16.079 -->
00:25:16.640Yeah.
00:25:17.039 -->
00:25:18.319I love that track, by the way.
00:25:18.400 -->
00:25:21.119It's one of the things that's powerful.
00:25:21.599 -->
00:25:30.000So I have an internal question as far as the kind of how the process worked, and then an external question that we'll get to in a second.
00:25:30.160 -->
00:25:34.079Um, we'll put this photo up in post, uh, but I did print it out so you can see it.
00:25:34.160 -->
00:25:38.880We have a signed guitar here, and then we put this up in our True Face office.
00:25:38.960 -->
00:25:42.720We have a bunch of different sessions and and just cool photographs.
00:25:42.880 -->
00:25:48.079I believe people were making coffee for each uh chapter of the path.
00:25:48.240 -->
00:25:49.519But that's these guys.
00:25:49.680 -->
00:25:50.720These guys did that.
00:25:50.799 -->
00:25:51.200Yeah.
00:25:51.440 -->
00:25:51.680Yeah.
00:25:51.759 -->
00:25:53.200Everybody's signing this guitar.
00:25:53.359 -->
00:25:59.839By the way, Lana, who's on our team, Lana Jernigan, who really helped coordinate all this, just had surgery this morning.
00:25:59.920 -->
00:26:06.960So, Lana, you'll probably watch this podcast at some place when you're recovering, and we're super grateful for you and all you did on that.
00:26:07.119 -->
00:26:08.480Um, she crushed it.
00:26:08.640 -->
00:26:09.680Absolutely crushed it.
00:26:09.920 -->
00:26:10.640She's awesome.
00:26:10.799 -->
00:26:16.160So, the choreography of all this, we're gonna bring a bunch of people together, we're gonna have a camp, a songwriting camp.
00:26:16.240 -->
00:26:19.119Like how any of you speak to how did this whole thing work?
00:26:21.920 -->
00:26:22.960You just asked Josh.
00:26:23.440 -->
00:26:25.920No, no, no, you just asked Josh, like, please.
00:26:26.000 -->
00:26:28.720Uh yeah, John, how did you pull this thing off?
00:26:31.119 -->
00:26:33.599Uh how do we pull all this on?
00:26:33.759 -->
00:26:36.079Uh everyone rally together.
00:26:36.240 -->
00:26:44.000As far as logistics goes, you know, we got to have a beautiful space in Franklin.
00:26:44.079 -->
00:26:46.000Um, it's at Tim Publishing.
00:26:46.240 -->
00:26:53.279So Stacy Wilbur was so gracious um at Tim Publishing to allow us to use this.
00:26:53.759 -->
00:26:58.480Uh it's like a I call it a barn, but it's not really.
00:26:58.640 -->
00:27:01.839It's just like it's like a museum, you know.
00:27:02.079 -->
00:27:10.960There's if you can imagine a massive barn, but really built out, um, very stylized with multiple levels and rooms.
00:27:11.279 -->
00:27:16.799Um, and in these rooms is various recording equipment and songwriting rooms.
00:27:16.960 -->
00:27:28.559And then on the second floor, it's more of an open area where we would meet and congregate for breakfast and uh, you know, coffee and gathering uh time.
00:27:28.720 -->
00:27:31.599So it was yeah, it was really great.
00:27:32.000 -->
00:27:34.079I think can I just add one thing?
00:27:34.240 -->
00:27:39.839I think every detail um was incredibly thought out.
00:27:40.000 -->
00:27:56.240So, like, you know, the the level of resource needed to pull this camp off so that it didn't feel like so Josh didn't feel like and he did for sure calling favors, but it didn't feel like um we weren't honoring the artists that we invited into the journey.
00:27:56.400 -->
00:28:05.440And so Bruce went to some friends of True Face and got the level of resource that allowed people to get paid what they don't typically get paid at a camp.
00:28:05.680 -->
00:28:09.519We were even able to, at the end of camp, bonus a few people that worked really hard.
00:28:09.680 -->
00:28:18.000The gentleman that brought his um his uh coffee cart with his son that named each drink after one of the chapters, you know.
00:28:18.160 -->
00:28:23.680Um but the food we had, you know, Bruce had a neurotheologian speak into the process with us.
00:28:23.839 -->
00:28:29.519So Josh and I are looking up like what foods are omega-5 rich and what are gonna help the brain.
00:28:29.599 -->
00:28:32.720And and we got comments from people that were like, this spread's amazing.
00:28:32.799 -->
00:28:34.000We never had this level of spread.
00:28:34.079 -->
00:28:38.240We had smoked salmon and berries, and oh my god, I'm so hungry.
00:28:38.400 -->
00:28:39.599It's it was delicious.
00:28:40.319 -->
00:28:42.559And we had endless streams of coffee.
00:28:42.720 -->
00:28:50.559And then the way that each room was put together with the producer and the engineer and the writer and the artist, these are all very, very thoughtfully curated.
00:28:50.720 -->
00:28:56.960And again, hats out to Josh, Bruce, and Land, and the team, because I think everybody really leaned in and every detail mattered.
00:28:57.119 -->
00:29:12.079And I think when people listen to this album, on the way to get the diagnosis, on the way to uh be with a family member that they're not really any any life situation they find themselves in, these songs will meet them in that ride.
00:29:12.319 -->
00:29:20.079And I think because every detail was thought about and prayed over and sacrificed for, I think the output represents that.
00:29:20.799 -->
00:29:21.920We could have phoned it in.
00:29:22.000 -->
00:29:22.960Josh could have done that.
00:29:23.039 -->
00:29:38.400We could have been done with all the songs probably four months ago if he would have gone a certain way with it, but because he refused to do that, and it was so high touched along the way, um, especially in the glut of sort of AI and what that the your ability to push out output.
00:29:38.559 -->
00:29:39.440This was not that.
00:29:39.599 -->
00:29:41.119This was the antithesis of that.
00:29:41.200 -->
00:29:44.960This was like highly human all the way through, you know?
00:29:45.279 -->
00:29:45.920Yeah.
00:29:46.960 -->
00:29:47.359Yeah.
00:29:47.680 -->
00:29:49.279And I I love that.
00:29:49.519 -->
00:29:58.640The just the the thoughtfulness, the attention to detail, the commitment to doing things with excellence on the internal side.
00:29:58.799 -->
00:30:00.240Bruce, I'll start with you.
00:30:00.480 -->
00:30:04.000What was the goal for the listener?
00:30:04.319 -->
00:30:10.160Some people are going to be familiar with the path, some people are just going to come across these songs independently.
00:30:10.400 -->
00:30:15.039What were you hoping to see happen as the end result of this project?
00:30:16.240 -->
00:30:24.799Well, I th I will say one other thing about another neurotheologian that Josh and I got to uh zoom in on.
00:30:25.039 -->
00:30:35.519And he's probably one of the reasons I if I can say this about our CEO, Robbie, was on that rooftop with Jason and me.
00:30:35.599 -->
00:30:39.359And he had told Jason, hey, look, uh, if I I'll just say this.
00:30:39.599 -->
00:30:43.039Uh he said, the the cigars will be lost on Bruce.
00:30:43.119 -->
00:30:50.640So I'll I'll drive him to the rooftop uh office and I'll help on that night.
00:30:50.720 -->
00:30:53.839Um and so yeah, he and Jason had this thing.
00:30:54.240 -->
00:31:02.880And Robbie, right away, said, after Jason had come up with this idea, and of course, this is one of the reasons now I look back and that I see what he's doing.
00:31:03.039 -->
00:31:11.279He's invited Josh to be at Think, so that Josh is already sort of in the melu of this group.
00:31:11.519 -->
00:31:13.920And Robbie says, that's a great idea.
00:31:14.160 -->
00:31:15.039Bruce will do it.
00:31:15.200 -->
00:31:20.720And I said, No, you give me so much stuff to do.
00:31:20.799 -->
00:31:22.160No, I just scan it.
00:31:22.240 -->
00:31:26.640And he was gracious and he accepted it, and we talked about it on the right home, and he said, it's okay.
00:31:26.799 -->
00:31:34.640And then about two or three weeks later, Jim Wilder, this neurotheologian, is what we call him.
00:31:34.799 -->
00:31:40.799He's been after this uh neuroscience for 35 years as a psychologist and other things.
00:31:41.599 -->
00:31:55.119He says to this songwriter who happens to be at the retreat, who happens to be the guy that Josh referred to, he didn't name him, uh, Joel, um, has a powerful voice, a distinctive voice, I should say.
00:31:55.839 -->
00:32:07.519Uh he looks over at Joel and he says, Now, Joel, keep writing songs, because what we know about the identity center in the right hemisphere of the brain is that it moves too fast for words, for text.
00:32:07.759 -->
00:32:18.480And one of the big reasons God designed music is to slow that down so that you can hear these words and you can say, Oh, that's who I am.
00:32:18.880 -->
00:32:20.559And you can do songs.
00:32:21.119 -->
00:32:27.200So that I leaned over to Janet and said, Don't tell Robbie, but I think I might be changing my mind about this project.
00:32:28.319 -->
00:32:39.759And that that little paragraph of words then started call back to Jason and Josh and and and breakfast with Tim Timmins and with Mike Donahe and others.
00:32:39.920 -->
00:32:48.240And and so that is my hope, is that the music will do what and this is always a group project.
00:32:48.400 -->
00:32:49.920I can't get well on my own.
00:32:50.160 -->
00:32:53.039So uh it's always in relationship.
00:32:53.359 -->
00:33:06.000But the music can put us into a relationship on Spotify or wherever that I may not have ever seen if I was reading a book or just in a group.
00:33:06.160 -->
00:33:08.240I might need them to sing to me.
00:33:08.559 -->
00:33:18.240So that's what my hope is, Benjamin, that this is a whole different level of the way God designed our brains to work, our minds to work.
00:33:18.640 -->
00:33:23.599And it's the same message, but it's a different medium that is powerful.
00:33:24.400 -->
00:33:24.960Yeah.
00:33:25.279 -->
00:33:26.400Man, that's incredible.
00:33:26.480 -->
00:33:40.640It it is not, it's not just, oh, we want to do this to get this message out, but we're actually speaking neurologically to a part of someone's brain that may only be able to experience this through music.
00:33:41.599 -->
00:33:42.240Yeah.
00:33:42.799 -->
00:33:43.839That's pretty awesome.
00:33:43.920 -->
00:33:44.960That's pretty awesome, y'all.
00:33:45.039 -->
00:33:47.279I hope you you are hearing how awesome that is.
00:33:47.680 -->
00:33:48.559See, and I knew that.
00:33:48.640 -->
00:33:52.640I knew the neuroscience, which is why I recommended that we do the album.
00:33:52.799 -->
00:33:52.880Yeah.
00:33:53.279 -->
00:33:55.039I don't explain all the details of it.
00:33:55.680 -->
00:33:57.039He's like Barnabas again.
00:33:57.119 -->
00:34:00.319He's he's seeing things before other people can see.
00:34:00.799 -->
00:34:04.400I'll I'll never call him anything other than Barnabas from this moment forward.
00:34:04.559 -->
00:34:05.519Just so everybody can.
00:34:06.319 -->
00:34:11.519So again, I'll I'll open the floor as we we kind of begin to land the plane of this podcast.
00:34:11.760 -->
00:34:18.559And originally, to Bruce's point with the path, we wanted to target Gen Z.
00:34:18.719 -->
00:34:25.119We did a ton of research, and then as the project has has been out there, it's just been for everybody.
00:34:25.280 -->
00:34:35.039You know, it's a uh we had a pastor in his late 50s who messaged us and was like, I'm weeping, and I wish I could have come across this book much, much earlier.
00:34:35.280 -->
00:34:58.400So some of the sometimes when you when you bring a message and you hope to make it palatable and digestible enough for a certain age range, um, although that age range is much more, in some ways, much more sophisticated than you know, people who are older, but you try to simp simplify and and you know the economy of your words, what you're saying, what you're not saying.
00:34:58.559 -->
00:35:02.000Now all of a sudden you make a message digestible to everyone.
00:35:02.480 -->
00:35:17.679So I but I do I would love for you guys to speak to your heart as to that the next generation and what you're hoping that they'll understand uh about God, about themselves, about relationships with each other.
00:35:17.840 -->
00:35:24.320Um, Jason, I'll start with you as it pertains to your kids, and just right on cue, one of them made an appearance right behind you.
00:35:24.480 -->
00:35:32.639But what is it that you're hoping the next generation will understand about themselves and themselves in relationship to God?
00:35:35.039 -->
00:36:06.719Well, I I think I hope that that people will um come here um um realize that that um God has uh designed them, us in a way for deep, um intimate relationship, and that he's not waiting for us to get our behavior right, to figure this stuff out before he wants to be near to us, that he's not outside of the room waiting for us to figure our stuff out.
00:36:06.960 -->
00:36:19.039He is um sitting with us in the midst of whatever you know we're given to in that moment, and he's inviting us into something much more real and textured and three-dimensional and fulfilling.
00:36:19.199 -->
00:36:30.159And I think that the way you guys have you know woven these deep truths and narrative and character and dialogue, I think people find themselves in different characters in the in the book.
00:36:30.239 -->
00:36:33.920That's also the beautiful part of the characterization you guys have done in the path.
00:36:34.079 -->
00:36:39.360Um because I think people are gonna resonate and connect with a certain character over another one.
00:36:39.440 -->
00:36:58.000And so I think um my hope is that they just find that this this life is a wild, wild adventure, and that the disposition of the father is he is kneeled next to your bed, eyes wide open, waiting for you to wake up into the day with you, and that there's this sense of excitement and adventure.
00:36:58.159 -->
00:37:02.159And I think this this this album will light that up in people's hearts.
00:37:02.480 -->
00:37:03.920Yeah, I love that.
00:37:04.239 -->
00:37:04.639Beautiful.
00:37:04.800 -->
00:37:06.960Josh, what would you say to that?
00:37:09.119 -->
00:37:10.960Oh my gosh, yes.
00:37:11.519 -->
00:37:45.360I all of it, every bit of that, what what I hope anyone who listens to this, um, really that the message of the path gets into their spirit, like what we're talking about, um, the science part, but the science the science part is speaking to the spiritual part, you know, um the spirit of our mind, the understanding of our hearts, like directly to the places of us where it becomes a part of you versus just like a knowledge.
00:37:45.760 -->
00:37:55.039So that these that yeah, like the deep aspect of the Father's love um just breaks people down.
00:37:55.280 -->
00:38:09.920And any pretense of performance um is broken off, you know, and it's easy in a theory to say Jesus performed everything that needs to be performed on the cross.
00:38:10.159 -->
00:38:19.440That was all the performance that that is needed for the acceptance into the family, um, for the father's delight in you.
00:38:19.599 -->
00:38:21.280It's done, it's finished.
00:38:21.519 -->
00:38:24.719Like you can't add to someone when they say it's finished.
00:38:24.960 -->
00:38:28.400You can't add to it because the performance part is done.
00:38:28.559 -->
00:38:39.760So, in theory, as believers, we all know this, but I guarantee you there's a component of that that your soul doesn't know yet.
00:38:40.000 -->
00:38:45.440That, you know, that your heart hasn't, there's a part of your heart that you're still there.
00:38:45.519 -->
00:38:48.079There's a part of shame that's still attached.
00:38:48.320 -->
00:39:07.119Um, and we live, yeah, in this in this life, and music can be such a powerful way to shed light and to shed that shame, you know, the same way David did with the Psalms and the evil spirits left, the oppression left.
00:39:07.280 -->
00:39:21.599Um, there's such a power um in unity, and like because you know, to continue on that, we had maybe every denomination there at the camp.
00:39:21.920 -->
00:39:33.199We had everything from Catholic to conservative to charismatic to fundamic, you know, to like ones I don't even know, like all of them.
00:39:33.440 -->
00:39:46.480Every but we were surrounded by our unity in Jesus and our love for his message, you know, because I know when we get to heaven, there's gonna be everybody there.
00:39:46.960 -->
00:39:50.400And there will there'll be no arguing theology then.
00:39:50.719 -->
00:39:54.079They'll just be enjoying the love of God and each other.
00:39:54.320 -->
00:39:57.280So why do we have to wait to heaven for that?
00:39:57.440 -->
00:40:08.960Why can't we enjoy each other now, enjoy the love of the Father now, and kind of, yeah, we don't have to debate over some thing that we don't really understand anyway.
00:40:09.119 -->
00:40:16.159So I don't know I went on that tangent, but if that ministers to someone, you know, praise God.
00:40:16.480 -->
00:40:19.840Yeah, no, that it that's powerful and it's incredible.
00:40:20.000 -->
00:40:29.920And um, for all of you watching or listening, what Jason and Josh just said, I hope though those words sink deep into your spirit as you hear that.
00:40:30.079 -->
00:40:33.280Bruce, I mean, can you can you follow those guys at this point?
00:40:33.840 -->
00:40:52.239Well, I was just uh thinking while they talked that I I was looking for a bookmark because the the bonus track, there are these eight song original songs that are designed after each theme of the eight chapters, but then they decided, I didn't know this was gonna happen, to do a bonus track.
00:40:52.400 -->
00:40:55.119And the bonus track is called Questions.
00:40:55.840 -->
00:41:02.239And the beauty of that is that this whole book is architected around eight questions.
00:41:02.880 -->
00:41:09.199And so that that was uh you know a sacred innovation right there.
00:41:09.519 -->
00:41:32.719And so I've I've given out hundreds of these bookmarks to people in that bullseye zone of Gen Z and just said, hey, keep this by your bed and actually uh embed this in your phone, since you're on your phone a lot, um, because you'll go through different seasons where you'll be asking different questions.
00:41:32.960 -->
00:41:43.519And so I won't read all these, but uh since what we just heard from Jason and Josh, you know, what if it wasn't all on you back to that performance state?
00:41:43.840 -->
00:41:47.440Um what if you already are who you wish you were?
00:41:47.760 -->
00:41:49.679Again, back to identity.
00:41:50.000 -->
00:41:56.079Um what if your deepest wound is where God longs to bring your deepest healing?
00:41:56.559 -->
00:42:00.719And I think about this book, it's just been translated this week into Ukrainian.
00:42:01.039 -->
00:42:12.559I think about all these trauma deluged kids who are losing parts of their family and parts of their bodies, uh complex trauma.
00:42:12.960 -->
00:42:16.159What if God longs to bring your deepest healing right there?
00:42:16.400 -->
00:42:22.239Uh uh what if God designed you specifically for friendship when you're feeling so lonely?
00:42:22.400 -->
00:42:28.159What uh what what about um when you think somebody else is getting more influences of you?
00:42:28.320 -->
00:42:33.679What if what if God uh Jesus designed you as you on purpose?
00:42:34.159 -->
00:42:51.920So I think this little bookmark, you guys back in Atlanta, you figured out how to make this bookmark work uh as an attachment or something, hard copy, and I I just think, man, we we need to keep those questions in mind because we'll go through different questions at different seasons, all of us.
00:42:52.559 -->
00:42:59.920And these questions are meant to say, we have some answers here from Jesus, from the scriptures.
00:43:00.480 -->
00:43:01.119Yeah.
00:43:02.559 -->
00:43:03.199Yeah.
00:43:04.320 -->
00:43:05.119I love it.
00:43:05.280 -->
00:43:06.639Yeah, y'all are awesome.
00:43:06.800 -->
00:43:18.480Um as we wrap up, Josh, Jason, anything you want to know that the people uh anything you want people to know as far as what you're working on or where they can follow you or keep up with you or anything like that.
00:43:19.760 -->
00:43:21.199Josh, can you play some music?
00:43:21.360 -->
00:43:22.239Play some of the music.
00:43:22.400 -->
00:43:23.679Give people a little glimpse.
00:43:23.840 -->
00:43:24.239Come on.
00:43:24.480 -->
00:43:33.760I don't know how to play the music in this like through these speakers or whatever, but you know, I'm sure can you sing it?
00:43:34.000 -->
00:43:35.199We can't really tease it yet.
00:43:35.360 -->
00:43:36.159We'll see.
00:43:36.400 -->
00:43:39.119I was in a room, I could play a video from my phone of you singing.
00:43:39.199 -->
00:43:40.320I didn't even know you could sing.
00:43:40.480 -->
00:43:43.760And I was in one of the writing rooms, and I'm like, what are you doing right now?
00:43:43.920 -->
00:43:45.280And he was just singing, it was beautiful.
00:43:45.360 -->
00:43:46.639I was like, that's what we learned.
00:43:46.719 -->
00:43:48.159There's nothing Josh can't do.
00:43:48.239 -->
00:43:49.760That's what we've learned Josh can't do.
00:43:50.000 -->
00:43:50.480It is podcast.
00:43:51.039 -->
00:43:51.519Questions.
00:43:51.679 -->
00:43:54.880I want to talk about questions, the bonus track questions.
00:43:55.599 -->
00:43:56.880No one else get mad.
00:43:56.960 -->
00:43:58.639It's definitely my favorite track.
00:43:58.880 -->
00:44:00.559You guys are all gonna love it.
00:44:00.880 -->
00:44:02.159Okay, okay.
00:44:02.400 -->
00:44:22.559Yeah, we're looking forward to it, and we will obviously let everybody know, at least in the True Face um family, when this is close to being out, when it's about we we we feel like we're close, but we're we also don't want to overpromise until we know we're we got a uh a release date in mind, and we'll obviously keep all of you updated.
00:44:22.800 -->
00:44:26.960And Josh and Jason, thank you so much for for joining us.
00:44:27.199 -->
00:44:29.519You guys, I guess you know, go out, Google them.
00:44:29.599 -->
00:44:33.039We'll include all the links to their stuff somewhere throughout this podcast.
00:44:33.199 -->
00:44:33.519That's right.
00:44:34.079 -->
00:44:37.199Can I just say people we're gonna invite people into the camp though?
00:44:37.280 -->
00:44:42.320We we had a film crew there filming and we got unbelievable content.
00:44:42.559 -->
00:44:51.679Intersquare social, uh dear friends of ours down here in Franklin, Tennessee, and we're gonna be coming out with content uh every week leading up to the launch of the album.
00:44:51.840 -->
00:45:01.519So we're gonna invite you back into the thing we just spent an hour describing that sacred space with great coffee and great smoked salmon and incredible creative.
00:45:01.679 -->
00:45:04.320Um, people are gonna get a glimpse into those moments.
00:45:04.639 -->
00:45:05.280Yeah.
00:45:06.000 -->
00:45:06.639So good.
00:45:06.960 -->
00:45:07.599Can't wait.
00:45:07.679 -->
00:45:09.280I'm so looking forward to it.
00:45:09.360 -->
00:45:14.400Um, thank you all for your time and for being on this podcast and for all of you watching or listening.
00:45:14.480 -->
00:45:16.400I hope this has been encouraging to you.
00:45:16.480 -->
00:45:18.719And we'll see you at the next podcast.
