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When most people think of human trafficking, they imagine something dramatic.
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Abductions, locked doors, scenes for movies.
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But in reality, it often looks ordinary.
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A workplace, an apartment, a business operating in plain sight, a motel or a hotel, even on the street, on corners, and in parking lots.
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And the people most likely to notice it, they're not always law enforcement.
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They're the ones already walking through these spaces every day.
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Code enforcement, community advocates, and others.
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It starts as a typical complaint, noise, foot traffic, maybe suspected illegal activity at a blinded motel.
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But as code enforcement digs a little deeper, patterns emerge.
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Code enforcement primarily deals with nuisances, but in this scenario, it's not just a nuisance case anymore.
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It's a potential human trafficking situation hiding behind everyday complaints.
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This isn't just happening overseas, it's happening here in California and across the U.S.
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in massive, terrifying numbers.
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Stay tuned to learn all about human trafficking and the role of code enforcement.
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From Civic Allah, this is True Code, a podcast explaining what code enforcement is, why our communities need it, and why you should care.
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From firsthand experiences, we discuss quality of life issues to reveal the truth about code enforcement.
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Dr.
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Morgan is an educator, a nurse, an author, a podcaster.
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She wears a million different hats and is recognized globally for her expertise in combating human trafficking and working to end violence against women and children.
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Dr.
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Morgan's experience serving exploited women, men, and children includes direct care as a pediatric nurse, a volunteer with Doctors of the World, and as a past administrator of the Orange County, Orange County, California, not Florida, Human Trafficking Task Force.
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Dr.
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Morgan recently served as co-chair of the public-private partnership advisory council to end human trafficking by presidential appointment.
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She hosts the Ending Human Trafficking podcast with listeners in countries all over the world and is co-author of a great book on human trafficking entitled Ending Human Trafficking: a Handbook of Strategies for the Church Today.
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Dr.
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Morgan, thank you so much and welcome to the show.
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Thank you for having me.
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I'm very excited that you've started this amazing podcast.
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Having been in podcasting now for 15 years, it is a time commitment.
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And it actually doing something like this is a little niche.
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We're never going to be on Saturday night live.
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But we are going to educate the people in our community and make a difference in ending human trafficking.
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So thank you so much.
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I can't wait for this conversation.
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Wonderful.
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Yeah, thank you.
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Thank you.
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And I have so many questions about your podcast and your experience and all those things.
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And, you know, perhaps we start there.
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For us, we started this podcast.
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And like you said, it's a huge time investment.
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Um, it's not something that uh really makes any money or anything.
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We do this for really one reason, and that is to shine the light on what local government does, what code enforcement does, why we do it, where we trip, and where we, you know, try to do well.
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What about you, Doctor?
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Why did you start uh your podcast?
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Well, the podcast came out of the experience of one of my Global Center for Women in Justice board members.
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And if he hadn't said, don't worry, you just show up, I'll take care of all of the production, I probably never would have done this.
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And then when his podcast, which I want to give a shout out to Dave Stahoviak, coaching for leaders, when it exploded and I had to go solo, um, I it was like second nature.
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Sign on, have a conversation, and share our knowledge and insight so that together we build a community that can collaboratively do something that makes a difference.
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When I was still a young pediatric night nurse, I had my very first case of human trafficking.
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It's so long ago we didn't even have that language, but I knew that something was desperately wrong when I admitted a 14-year-old boy at 2 a.m.
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whose mother and stepfather were selling him to support their substance abuse.
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And Doctor, right there, uh, when you say selling him, we mean selling him for sex to people.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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Yeah, this this was an episode in preparing for this where I had to really kind of settle my stomach and my nerves in advance because even though those in code enforcement are certainly not um new to dealing with tragedy and tough issues, this issue is so particularly angering and upsetting that uh there's an there's an element where you almost have to gurge yourself to even talk about it or use these words.
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Do you do you feel that now still?
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I absolutely.
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And and I do think that um because I do this from my faith platform, that that gives me a certain amount of stability and support in community that allows me to keep doing this day after day, week after week, month after month, and literally year after year.
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And the issues um require fresh insight, new partners.
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And the reason I stay at Vanguard University is because every year they bring me another freshman class.
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And my students, I was just in Romania working with our State Department, our embassy, and nonprofits, NGOs, government, ministry of education, all of these people in a country where we are still seeing young people trafficked to all parts of the world.
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And while I was there, I got a text from one of my alums who, when he was a freshman, signed up for the Women in Justice Minor, became a member of the Live to Free Club, started going out into the high schools to educate um younger students about the risks of being trafficked.
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And now he's texting me because as he's grown and developed his career in law enforcement, it was his first collar.
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And he put the handcuffs on a trafficker selling a teenage girl as an FBI agent.
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And I thought every class that comes on my campus is another opportunity to send qualified, knowledgeable leaders into the front line.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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I mean, you're not just giving the fish, you're teaching people how to fish.
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And in this case, they're going out and they're fishers of, you know, fishers of justice, I guess, in that sense.
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They're going on protecting the vulnerable.
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And they get to do things I can't do.
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I mean, you know, they're not gonna let me go put handcuffs on any.
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So that would feel good with some of this.
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So there is so much to unpack there, but I but I I would like to start with, you know, your your initial story is so impactful.
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You are a nighttime pediatric nurse.
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We're talking to you now.
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You're a professor, podcaster, author.
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You have revolved your life around the subject of human trafficking.
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How did you get from there to here?
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Um, you know, I have I have students that come in and sit in my office and ask me, so what major should I do to be you?
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And it's like, well, actually, um the secret is you need to get old.
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Um it's it's lots of life experience and serving in anything.
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I grew up in a household where my dad um taught scripture at the kitchen table around the fireplace.
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And I remember being told as a very young child, whatever you see to do, whatever your hand finds, do it.
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And I've that's how I ended up being a volunteer for Doctors of the World um shelter in Athens, Greece.
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And it was not because of my nursing that they wanted me.
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It was because at one point I had decided I needed to get certified to teach English as a second language.
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And the director of the shelter said, what we really need is a way to instill hope in survivors.
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We recover them.
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I we don't even like to use the word rescue.
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We recover and bring them into a place for restoration and rehabilitation.
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And they're so broken.
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And one of the most important things starting out on that restoration journey is building hope.
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And when they learn a new skill, learning English meant they could qualify for some jobs that our US Embassy had partnered with the Hilton Hotel.
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And when they passed a certain level, they could qualify for some part-time jobs.
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So I have a lot of different things teaching English, nursing, becoming a professor, because I understand that research is critical.
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You can't just think you know the answer.
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You have to test that.
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And that testing is really the bottom line for discernment and wisdom.
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We talk about those spiritual practices, but they are not like you put your hands out in front of you and somehow the universe manifests some knowledge.
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It's hard work to do the research, to get the numbers, to investigate.
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And it's one of the things that I actually love about code enforcement work.
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Okay.
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Well, we definitely want to touch on that.
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Um, kind of going back a step, when you were there that night in the ER and that poor traffic kid came in, did you right then have an aha moment where you said, I am going to find a way to get involved in this?
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Or did it gnaw you?
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Is this something you discerned over time?
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Or how did that happen?
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How'd that transition occur?
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I I think I think it stayed with me and was a touch point when I saw other things happening.
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And it's like, oh, I've seen that before.
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Before we had the Trafficking Victims Protection Act in 2000, we already had laws that did not permit sexual assault.
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And so we knew this was wrong, but we didn't have the best strategies for engaging, for prosecuting the perpetrators, for understanding the greed element, the money as a driving force in this.
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And so it was the kind of knowledge that I acquired a little at a time, and it became a more developed process when we actually had a law, and I could say, ah, that's what that is.
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And for many of the things, for instance, here at the Global Center for Women and Justice, our mission statement when we started in 2003 under our founders, I wasn't even here, uh, is to advance the global status of women and reduce violence against women and girls, which is a global issue.
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And sometimes, honestly, getting people to pay attention to those things is difficult.
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But when human trafficking became more visible on in the public square, people paid attention.
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So the issues I was already addressing child sexual abuse, um, violence uh against women, domestic violence, family violence, they're all under the same umbrella.
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And I so it was kind of a two-way street.
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I got to talk about the issues that were really dear to me, and I began to have a um a growing understanding of how connected they were to the horrific, total composite of what human trafficking looks like, what it is, and how we develop strategies to end it.
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So to to put just a finger on it, how how should we define human trafficking?
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What is human trafficking in your book?
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You talk about that there's two different types.
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I think most people think of, as you also point out in your book, that human trafficking is really sex trafficking, but which is huge, a huge part, but there is labor trafficking.
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So, number one, Doctor, what is human trafficking?
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How do we put a finger on it?
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And secondly, uh, can you talk about those two different kinds and the drivers?
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So if you're looking at how to define this, you know, the law and urine law, it's pages and pages and pages.
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But if you want to have it on one slide, think of having three columns.
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And in one column, you have the ways that a person is obtained, recruited, moved, transported around the block or across a state or across a border.
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And then the process, the means by which that was done.
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And there are three elements legally that we have to prove for an adult victim of labor or sex trafficking, and we have to prove whether it was force, fraud, or coercion.
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And force is kind of some of the very dramatic images we have from movies like Taken, and somebody is kidnapping a girl or throwing them in a white van and driving off.
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Um, but that's not nearly as common as fraud.
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And even mentioning the movie Taken, um Hollywood needs to sell tickets for you to go see that.
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But the real trafficking, more likely, would have happened by two guys making friends with two girls, inviting them to a party.
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There would have been no dramatic, violent, lamp-breaking scene.
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They would have just gone to the party and we'd never see them again.
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But a six-minute movie doesn't sell very many tickets.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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And grooming is that that is certainly under the rubric of coercion, fraud, force.
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Um, but that's a long-term play, usually taking place online, ultimately resulting in a meeting, perhaps like you just talked about at a party.
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Is that right?
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Yes.
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And grooming can happen because of social media now a lot faster than it than we used to see.
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But the grooming becomes sometimes wrapped up in kind of what we call a lover boy scenario.
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Even in labor trafficking, this idea that I see you and I'm your friend and I'm gonna help you.
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And now part of the coercion isn't the threat of we're going to beat you and um we're going to kill your family, although that kind of coercion happens frequently, but the coercion of you're not gonna be able to stay here, um, I'm not going to love you anymore.
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Um, you're not gonna be part of our group.
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And so that kind of of manipulation around belonging and identity is all part of that grooming process.
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I think one of the podcasts that I've done that really explains that well is an interview with Rachel Thomas.
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And if you look up our podcast and search Rachel, she's probably a frequent flyer on the podcast, but she talks about coercion in a way that um our kids understand what dogs.
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Thank you.
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And for our listeners in our, we'll make sure that we share a link to these podcasts, um, both the doctors podcasts and other affiliated podcasts that we're aware of on there as well.
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And same with the book, which we're gonna get into.
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So, Doctor, just even that I could, I could literally feel my blood pressure rising and the fury building up.
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A lot of our listeners, in fact, all of our listeners who are in government and many people who are not in government who are our listeners, uh, these are people who want to do good.
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And so, uh, and your book talks about that kind of thing.
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But on your chat, I want to talk first about your cherished belonging comment right there.
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Uh, your belonging to community.
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You know, we um had a conversation about uh community, and it came up with a book that I don't know if you know Father Greg Boyle, who works with Homeboy Industries.
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Yeah, and he wrote a great book very recently called Cherished Belonging.
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And his whole principle of it is that a big source of dysfunction in our society, which is not unique to America, but we have a particularly American dysfunction in our society uh at certain times, like right now, stems from a lack of belonging or a lack of sense of belonging.
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So does that play into this?
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When you talk about a sense of uh people actually being trafficked because their so-called friends are telling them you can't be part of our community anymore.
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What is the role of community and belonging in being trafficked?
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Well, there's a pretty common understanding of how, particularly in sex trafficking, the trafficker has a relationship with usually girls and women being sold, and they have a common language, maybe even considering each other uh family and wifey and sisters, those kinds of things.
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And so when the trafficking is identified and we try to remove someone, their reason for not walking out of that circumstance are sometimes around their commitment to their fellow victims.
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And even just like we've seen and we can learn from looking back at where we've been with domestic violence, we we opened shelters and women, we would get them out of a violent marriage, and then they would go back.
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And everybody's like, why?
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And and eventually the research showed they it would take seven times before they left.
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And they may not even be alive to leave at that point in time.
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Well, yes, and it's pretty much the same thing.
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The uh there's the issue around trauma bonding and the idea that you're part of this tight-knit family.
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And even in court, we have cases where a victim, we have witness testimony, we know this is a uh victim of violent sex trafficking, and yet at the end of the trial, and the sentencing is sending the trafficker away for 20 years or more, um, the victim is writing a letter to the court for mercy, and he still loves me.
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And those that that just really speaks to how deeply belonging is part of our humanity.
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Is so central to who we are, the need to belong.
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Uh, I mean, you can watch TV shows, a lot of reality shows really center on the Concept of a need to belong, even in dysfunctional situations.
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Um, so Doctor, is human trafficking something that is unique to America?
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Does it happen all over the world?
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Is where does America play in this issue?
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I love that very specific focus on our US role in combating human trafficking.
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Very obviously, it is a global tragedy.
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And in some places, thousands of people are in state-run slavery.
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Um, a few years ago, we passed the Uyghur uh prevention law so that we have to look at that kind of the products that are coming into our borders that are produced by literally slave labor.
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We see generational slavery in brick kilns.
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We see slavery right now, forced criminality in Asia, where big warehouses have been converted to AI chatbot scamming factories, and young people are recruited through fraud, saying, here's a job in the tech industry.
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And then they arrive and they are literally captives in this warehouse, scamming people predominantly in Western nations, and just I don't have 25 stats yet, but in 2024, 4.0 billion dollars mostly with our elder community, six and over.
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And so the intersection of crime and exploitation and human trafficking is in every corner of our globe, every part of our community.
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And we see the devastation it wreaks on um talking to a woman last month who lost her life savings, lost her life savings to an online scam.
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And then I took a survey in my class because I'm thinking, oh, this is really rare.
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Half of my students had a family member who had been scammed from anywhere from a few hundred dollars to several thousand dollars.
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So human trafficking impacts us in lots of different ways.
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Yeah, that's a great point, Doctor.
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It's sometimes hard to think about how human trafficking impacts beyond the immediate victim who's being trafficked, but you raise a really interesting point about uh these slave labor farms in Asia, for example, in that scenario.
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Uh, and I think about like some of these online sites where people think they can go buy cheap clothing, and that is made by the hands of little kids who are being trafficked.
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Is that right?
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Absolutely.
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And in fact, right now, I want to invite you to Vanguard in October 2026 for our annual Fair Trade Fashion Show.
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Live to Free has been doing this for 10 years to draw attention to how fast fashion drives human trafficking and substandard working conditions.
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Uh, over a hundred people killed when a factory collapsed in Bangladesh uh several years ago.
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And we just see this over and over again.
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If something is too good to be true, it isn't true.
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Someone else is paying the price, and that may be with their own blood, sweat, and tears.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:16.240
One of my favorite things to teach people about the law of supply and demand and where human trafficking shows up is in chocolate because there are a lot of things that are produced, we know, have slave labor contamination, but we need to have them.
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:31.359
It's like people do need to wear clothes, and it's very difficult to actually do a supply chain audit to show that the shirt you're wearing, for example, is totally slave-free.
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:34.640
So I focus on chocolate.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:48.799
We know that there are over 200,000 child slaves on cocoa plantations in West Africa so that you can have cheap chocolate.
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:51.039
So it costs a little more.
00:26:51.200 --> 00:27:07.119
There are some arguments about why we would support another certification for fair trade, but I want to buy chocolate that is not contaminated by slavery.
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:15.519
Doctor, that's the understatement of the week here, uh, I think, because I it never occurred to me that chocolate, to think of it that way.
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:24.880
It's not that there's literally people, they may not even be physically molding the chocolate, but and they may be as well, but they're also out there in the supply chain.
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:36.960
And so I think a takeaway message for our listeners here and for myself, this is something I'm gonna be thinking about for a while, is it's not just that we're called to fight human trafficking.
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:45.920
And those of us here in local government and law enforcement and our code enforcement folks, you are called to fight this plague on our society and our humanity.
00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:56.559
However, we also have to look and make sure we're not participating in it by purchasing things, cheap clothing, chocolate, whatever, that uh ate it.
00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:15.599
I remember back in when we were deep in the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda and whatnot, that there was a big call, you know, all the more reason not to do drugs, i.e., heroin, for example, because it comes from poppy farms uh in Afghanistan that then helped fund the war to help kill Americans and our soldiers.
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:25.440
And so we have to look in the mirror sometimes to realize am I playing an accidental role, an inadvertent role in this, even though, of course, our intent is not there.
00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:27.039
It's a great point, Doctor.
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:28.160
Absolutely.
00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:42.720
And we can begin to evaluate those kinds of things, and we we have to be um mindful of how we make change um and how we call others.
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:49.599
I'm always cautioning my students about don't go around pointing at people and calling them out.
00:28:50.079 --> 00:29:01.359
And when um when you start down the fair trade um path, you need to also look at um supply chain transparency.
00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:09.839
And California, notably, was the first to pass a supply chain transparency act in 2010.
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:22.079
And now it's been replicated in several other spaces, although ours does need to be beefed up and have some actual teeth, but that's another discussion.
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:46.160
But when we think about what we can do by voting with our dollars and by the our supply chain transparency act here in California requires companies with revenue over a certain amount to have an online policy and a way for consumers to um question.
00:29:46.559 --> 00:30:00.960
And so when you see something, check it out, write to that company, ask, because every time you do, um, it compounds the number of people who have so that they're going to pay attention.
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:17.119
And our child labor iLab in the Department of Justice actually did an app called Sweat and Toil, and it has over a thousand pages of research behind it.
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:25.599
And in the Sweat and Toil app, you pop it up on your phone with your kids so you begin to teach them from a young age.
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:29.440
We get to make choices for justice.
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:37.039
And you look at the bananas and you pull that up and you look at the label to see where they are from.
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:42.480
And on your app, children may be involved, may not necessarily.
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:49.839
Then I'm not gonna buy those and support that cheap business line for that particular grocer.
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:56.480
I'm gonna choose something else, and that may mean I'm buying local, which is always a good thing too.
00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:04.400
So our choices do change other people's lives, and we may never know those people.
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:05.200
Right.
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:08.319
And uh they can be for the better or the worse.
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:29.440
Um, so you're saying that the sweat and toil app is something people could download and actively use to see if the products they're looking at purchasing, like I'm standing at the grocery store and looking at a can of soup or something, and I can actively look this brand up on this app, sweat and toil, to determine whether it may be involved in human trafficking along the line.
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:38.400
Yeah, you can look up um cotton coming from Uzbekistan and see um the kind of exploitation.
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:41.279
I think there's like five different symbols.
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:55.839
And I I love it for introducing trafficking, particularly to children, because it's focused on labor trafficking and we don't have to deal with the um age-appropriate sexual content.
00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:04.640
I think the other thing that I love about that app is how it's so much a part of our everyday life.
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:13.279
We, unless you're doing all your shopping online, um, we are in the community, we are making decisions.
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:34.640
And the reason I wanted to be part of your podcast and talk about code enforcement is because we look so often at um the FBI and Department of Justice and our police officers, and you guys, you go find the traffickers.
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:46.319
But code enforcement officers have a very unique place where they see things because of their priority for public safety.
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:51.279
They have to go in and check when there's something that gets reported.
00:32:51.519 --> 00:33:04.640
And over and over again, we have case uh reports where it was a code enforcement officer that identified a trafficking situation.
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:06.319
Absolutely.
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:08.240
And that is code enforcement.
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:13.519
I call the Swiss Army tool because they really do get called in for all sorts of things.
00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:26.160
Sometimes they get called in, and what they're called for turns into a very different thing in reality that they're finding, but they are often the first people that the public interacts with, uh, maybe the only people from local government that they ever interact with.
00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:31.599
And then in other cases, they may be the first people in to identify a situation like this.
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:32.720
So let's talk about that.
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:38.720
How a code of forcing officer gets called out, say, to a uh a call about a junkie motel.
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:45.119
What should they be looking for to spot a potential human trafficking scenario?
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:50.240
Well, I think they're they're looking for things that are out of place.
00:33:50.799 --> 00:34:12.480
Um uh I remember when I was a brand new task force administrator talking to an attorney from San Francisco, and their code enforcement folks had been out on a call because of a roach report in a restaurant.
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:21.679
And when they got there, um they went in and and they were like, what's over, what's over there?
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:27.840
And it looks like this might have part of the problem with the roach investment.
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:40.079
Well, open the door, and there's a dozen mattresses laid out on the floor, and they discover that this is a hub for labor trafficking.
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:52.079
No one leaves the restaurant, the cooks, the waiter, the waitress, and they uncovered a huge um trafficking situation in in hotels.
00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:59.920
The um code enforcement is gonna be called out because of public safety, right?
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:15.519
And so when they see underage kids, girls and boys that aren't in school during the daytime when they're doing their normal eight to five, that raises questions.
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:30.400
And I I think one of the things that we want to be really careful about, because I can paint code enforcement officers as heroes, but I don't want them acting like they've got a Superman cape.
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:37.519
I I want them to understand safety protocols for themselves and for the victims.
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:58.000
If if you see something and you're pretty sure it's human trafficking, you need to make sure in your particular city, county, what the protocols are for reporting to get the right kind of backup because traffickers are criminals.
00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:16.400
And as a as a nurse, and I worked with Derek Marsh, the um co-founder of our Orange County Human Trafficking Task Force, and he really taught me how important it is to think about safety first.
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:27.599
And the traffickers often have weapons, they often have the ability to harm people in other spaces that we don't know about.
00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:45.119
So if your code enforcement team hasn't had training, this is something that needs to become a priority in order to make sure that there is a protocol because we don't want to put possible victims at risk.
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:48.480
And safety is always number one.
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:54.800
Well, we including for the protectors, we have a phrase here of we have a phrase here that we need to protect the protectors.
00:36:54.960 --> 00:37:00.079
If you don't have the protectors to protect, just to keep using that word protect, then they can't protect.
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:14.239
Um, and so in California, a couple of years ago, we wrote a law called SP 296, Senate Bill 296, that was the first of its kind in the country that required every city and county in our state to adopt safety standards specific to code enforcement.
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:25.360
And for all of you listening out there that have not yet adopted it, number one, if you're one of our listeners in another state, you need to go to your legislature and your code enforcement association to get that adopted.
00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:27.199
And the scenario that Dr.
00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:29.360
Morgan just pointed out is another reason why.
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:34.320
Secondly, uh, if you have, if you're in California, this needs to be in place.
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:39.519
Um, and it sounds like we need protocols for when you identify human trafficking issues.
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:46.079
So what kind of what kind of specific dangers can we give examples of here?
00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:51.280
And what kind of protections, you know, if you have an idea of that, should code enforcement officers take?
00:37:51.440 --> 00:38:03.039
You, you know, I guess I'm thinking just to put it in concrete terms, let's take your situation where they're in a restaurant for a roach call, and this stuff does happen, and they go in, they discover, they just basically happen upon by accident.
00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:06.559
This is a labor human trafficking, say it's a sex human trafficking.
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:09.599
What should they do that minute forward?
00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:17.519
Well, first of all, the thing you don't do is say, Oh, I'm gonna rescue you and I'm gonna get you out of here.
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:22.320
You always call for appropriate backup for everyday people.
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:31.199
You call 911, but whatever your emergency number is in your area, that's what you do.
00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:39.760
You also don't do anything to put people at risk of violence and harm.
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:43.440
You don't want um a hostage situation.
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:48.960
You don't come out and say, well, this looks like human trafficking, and I'm gonna call.
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:50.639
Excuse me while I call the police.
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:51.199
Uh-huh.
00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:51.679
Uh-huh.
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:53.199
Fill in out your paper.
00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:54.719
That's your job.
00:38:54.960 --> 00:39:00.559
And you call for backup in a careful and safe way.
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:23.280
And there should be protocols now, particularly here in California, where we have some very robust human trafficking task forces up and down the state, where that call-out is going to be accompanied by victim service providers who are going to make sure things are safe.
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:31.760
And sometimes, particularly in labor trafficking, there isn't an immediate go-in and rescue.
00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:42.639
And that's one of the most frustrating things for people who watch a 45-minute episode on TV during the commercial.
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:45.519
They get all the warrants, they do this and that.
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:50.159
And by the end of the show, all the victims are in a beautiful safe house.
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:57.360
It may take time, and we have to stage the like going into a factory.
00:39:57.519 --> 00:40:01.119
We have to have a place to set up to bring the victims.
00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:08.000
We have to have service providers who are trauma-informed and trained to do interviews.
00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:17.519
We may need linguistic support because the victims don't speak English, or in my case, locally, they don't even speak Spanish.
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.239
So I need other linguistic support.
00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:28.239
So there's a lot of background work to do to actually recover the victims.
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:49.360
And when they're foreign national victims, and now we're kind of looping back to that belonging element that we started, it's very hard for them to disclose their trafficking because the coercion may be connected to a family member on another continent.
00:40:49.679 --> 00:41:02.000
And their loyalty to a parent or an uncle may mean that they have to stay in their trafficking from their point of view.
00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:09.519
So it's it's a lot more complicated than just um going in, identifying and rescuing.
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:10.559
Rescuing them.
00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:10.960
Right.
00:41:11.119 --> 00:41:18.000
It's not just all there are the take-in scenarios where there is the rescue and that person's, thank God, I'm out of this.
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:22.800
And they recognize that they should not have been in it and they're out of it, and thank the Lord they're out.
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:35.280
But you're talking about a much more insidious scenario in which um people may not immediately recognize that or may recognize it and feel like they're stuck in that to protect family, for example.
00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:39.039
That means we have to build trust then.
00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:48.800
And in especially with foreign national victims, they often come from countries where trusting law enforcement is not going to happen.
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:55.440
So your frontline service providers like nurses and code enforcement.
00:41:55.599 --> 00:42:01.360
Code enforcement, pretty much their big weapon of choice, if you will, is a clipboard.
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:09.599
Or now I guess it's an um a tablet, but um taken down this and their job is asking questions.
00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:10.960
They don't carry a gun.
00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:15.039
It's a lot easier for someone to answer their questions.
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:28.639
And for a nurse, if somebody's brought into the emergency room, there's a sense that you can trust a healthcare professional because their job is to heal and their job is to ask questions.
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:29.920
Where does it hurt?
00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:31.119
Why does it hurt?
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:32.559
What caused this?
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:52.639
And those of us who um serve in those frontline roles can be a part of gathering the information, the knowledge that we need, and then pulling the resources to actually safely recover the victims.
00:42:53.039 --> 00:43:00.880
What would you say, though, to somebody who's thinking, if I walk away from this scenario, I see it right now, I've got them red-handed.
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:05.280
If I walk away from this scenario, they're they're gonna lose them.
00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:06.800
They're gonna disappear.
00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:08.960
Um, call 911.
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:16.639
So they call 911, and you talked about how it, you know, even though they they're they're gonna come out for sure.
00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:23.519
But in like a labor trafficking case, there may be a bigger investigation behind the scenes to put it all together.
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:27.519
So you're not just pinching one bee, you're taking down the beehive ultimately.
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:28.480
Is that accurate?
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:29.760
Yes, yes.
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:36.480
And it is it is very challenging because the lines get blurry for sure.
00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:55.760
But for instance, I had a call one time, and it was very clear that this was likely sex trafficking, and the person was standing on the street watching the car pick the girl up.
00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:59.760
And it's like call 911 and give them the license, please.
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:09.840
You can do that right now because of course we use the hotline number, which is 888-373788.
00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:20.480
And they can walk you through what you've seen to and and help identify what might or might not be trafficking.
00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:33.440
But in the moment, if a crime may be being committed, it doesn't really matter if it's human trafficking or some other form of criminal activity.
00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:35.280
You call 911.
00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:42.480
And so for a code enforcement officer, your immediate inclination may very well be what mine is, which is I see it.
00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:47.199
I'm gonna, I'm gonna put myself between the perpetrator and these victims, and I'm gonna grab and pull them out.
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:50.079
However, that is not a good idea for the long term.
00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:56.719
Step outside, pretend like you're continuing to write your notes, step outside around the corner, call 911.
00:44:56.800 --> 00:44:59.679
Or if you're out there with a radio, do the radio, call your police.
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:02.800
If you're a coder force nostril, you've got a direct dial to your police.
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:04.480
So call them, get in to do that.
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:06.960
Now, what about less obvious situations?
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:08.320
So let's go back to my motel.
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:15.199
And I keep going back to the motel because I actively have a couple cases and have had litigate have litigated these over the years.
00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:22.239
You know, there's a great uh white paper by the DOJ on uh the price, it's called the problem with budget motels.
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:25.280
And the problem is beyond just cheap.
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:34.079
The the problem is that oftentimes there's a very strong uh correlation between the some of these budget motels and crime.
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:39.440
And a big, a big place for human trafficking ends up at a motel.
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:42.079
And so uh prostitution, human trafficking.
00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:44.960
A lot of times there's there's a major crossover between those.
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:56.480
So, what might a code enforcement officer, what signs might a code officer look for when they're going through a place like a hotel or motel that might indicate that there's human trafficking?
00:45:56.559 --> 00:45:58.400
Perhaps in the how they how it operates.
00:45:58.480 --> 00:45:59.760
Do you have any idea of that?
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:04.719
Well, you know, we've got some great civil cases that have been published.
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:14.719
I think last year in Atlanta, there was a civil case where the victims got like a$40 million settlement.
00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:21.840
And the signs were that the desk had condoms that they made available to the girls when they came in.
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:31.920
The security people seemed to be more about managing, getting people to their reservations.
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:37.679
The rooms were being used for very short amounts of time.
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:44.960
There were multiple cars coming and going during the night or in the afternoon.
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:50.320
There is this kind of romantic sense that this happens after dark.
00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:59.519
But this is why when you see school kids at a hotel at noon, activity has increased during the lunch break.
00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:03.360
And residential brothels are also happening.
00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:14.639
And code enforcement will get uh a call because the neighborhood is really tired of the increased traffic at this one place.
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:26.719
And then they find out that the um it's being run, they go, code enforcement goes in, and there's not even regular furniture.
00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:31.039
The bedrooms just each have two mattresses on the floor.
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:38.800
The whole thing is when something doesn't look right, asking another question.
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:52.880
And the complaints that corroborate from community members can support your observations, but again, what is your local protocol?
00:47:53.280 --> 00:48:14.400
And this is something that over and over again, and from a legal perspective, one of the things that SB963 that now created a way for nurses and doctors in emergency rooms to screen without risk of liability.
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:19.039
It's really important that you have a written protocol.
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:27.519
And if your code enforcement department doesn't have that yet, just ask when will it be ready?
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:29.039
This week or next week.
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:29.599
Right.
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:30.719
It needs to be done.
00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:33.519
Protocols are the name of the game these days.
00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:37.360
Policies and procedures, best practices, whatever you want to call it.
00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:39.360
Uh, we need those in place.
00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:45.280
And, you know, I've been doing this 20 years and it probably represented hundreds of agencies uh in California.
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:51.840
And I have, I don't think I've ever seen a policy or procedure involving human trafficking for code enforcement.
00:48:52.000 --> 00:49:00.880
I do think the involvement, the overt involvement of code enforcement in human trafficking is a relatively new thing, but I think it's a good thing for code enforcement to be.
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:05.519
And there's some other indicators that I've seen would be like a motel that charges hourly rates.
00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:10.239
There's no legitimate purpose for it uh affiliate with hourly rates at a motel.
00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:22.159
Uh, I had one where in the manager's quarters they had a price sheet and it was one price for known prostitutes, aka human trafficking victims, and a different price for everybody else.
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:27.679
So they darn well knew and they were charging a higher cost, of course, because they could for criminal activity.
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:33.280
Um see ones like charging cash only, non-traceable, non-trackable kind of stuff.
00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:47.280
We had a case where uh the police went into a motel where they suspected human trafficking was occurring in that moment of a juvenile and they would not give them access or cooperate anyway, even give them the camera uh material.
00:49:47.599 --> 00:49:53.840
So uh, and and I'll share this story that I've shared in a prior episode uh that maybe you've seen before, Doctor.
00:49:54.000 --> 00:50:04.400
And that is I had a code officer uh tell me that in a in a city she works with uh in San Diego County, uh, so we're talking an affluent county in California.
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:06.400
We think this stuff doesn't happen in our backyards.
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:11.280
California is one of the bigger consumers or locations for human trafficking, shamefully, in our country.
00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:13.360
And it's occurring down there, for example.
00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:22.159
But she was telling me, you know, Matt, I was just on my lunch break and I was just driving in my personal car from point A to point B, and I saw a naked young lady running down the street.
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:24.480
So major red flag, obviously, number one.
00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:27.039
Number two, she went, no one went to help.
00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:28.239
Problem number three.
00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:35.679
Uh, she then goes out and grabs this girl to kind of bring her in and try to put a blanket or something, a coat around her.
00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:41.519
And uh the girl had a barcode tattooed on her, not in some sort of like artsy way.
00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:43.440
It was a trafficking barcode.
00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:51.039
And meanwhile, perhaps the next red flag is while she's got this gal in her car and she's trying to figure out what to do and she's calling the police.
00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:55.760
Uh, this car is circling and she felt very unsafe.
00:50:56.000 --> 00:51:03.039
Have you seen this scenario, I guess, of people literally running naked down the street or this tattoo of a barcode?
00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:07.199
I mean, that's like you scan a can of soup back to my example with a barcode.
00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:08.000
This is a human being.
00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:09.199
Have you seen this before?
00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:27.760
Well, in the early cases here in Orange County and San Diego and LA, there was evidence that trafficking rings would put barcodes on victims and literally keep records by scanning those barcodes.
00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:40.719
And it's um it but here's the thing that happens as the traffickers learn and adapt and change.
00:51:41.199 --> 00:52:00.400
And so if we're looking for people with barcodes, they've moved on, and literally we have evidence now that there have been cases where victims have been chipped, just like you do if your dog gets lost, you can find them.
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:19.920
So I think the things that are ordinary are more helpful for us to learn when people don't have their own identification documents when you ask where who are you, where are you from, if they don't seem to be working in safe conditions.
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:40.719
It's like I was doing training at a hospital emergency room near a port, and suddenly one of the nurses said, Oh my goodness, that guy that came in with his foot half chopped off, he should have been wearing steel-toed boots by OSHA law.
00:52:40.960 --> 00:53:03.280
And so somebody who's not compliant with basic human resource guidelines in a hotel, in a restaurant, and in landscaping businesses, all those kinds of things in factories, there shouldn't be a 14-year-old running a poultry deboning machine.
00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:05.519
Those kinds of things.
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:14.719
And code enforcement, because they're there to check that ventilation system is okay, they may see something.
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:23.920
And just by reporting that, we may have what we need to go in and uncover a labor trafficking case.
00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:24.880
Absolutely.
00:53:25.119 --> 00:53:44.400
You just made a fantastic case for the continued need for these municipal codes that govern things that seem out of the ordinary, a bad property, an overgrown, you know, a completely overgrown yard, you know, 20 cars, 10 cars in a house, single family house.
00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:54.000
These kind of things very well may be limited to those, but they also may be the old phrase where there's smoke, there's fire, and an indicator of a much bigger problem.
00:53:54.159 --> 00:54:04.000
You know, sometimes here in California and in the legislatures across the state, of across the political spectrum, they get this idea sometimes that we're being too nitpicky on these laws.
00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:06.239
And why are there so many laws getting in the way of people?
00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:09.360
Well, these laws also protect people.
00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:15.599
And so I encourage our legislators to keep an open mind that these laws are traditionally born out of tragedy.
00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:26.719
Let's not forget the history and the source of that, and realize that it may not just be about the number of cars or the rodents in there, which some people may think is a minor, but it's a major issue.
00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:30.400
Um, it may really be a way to protect broader things.
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:35.280
Or put differently, speaking code enforcement parlance, the broken windows theory.
00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:42.400
Small problems that go ignored lead to bigger problems that go ignored, and then bigger problems lead, of course, to bigger problems.
00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:44.639
And so we need to nip these in the bud.
00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:51.280
Maybe it's not a safe place to go do human trafficking if they know that there are codes that are being followed.
00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:52.719
It's up, it's up to code.
00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:58.800
So, Doctor, you said speaking of that, you said something in your book about um, I actually want to share this here.
00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:10.239
You were you were talking about dealing with a person who was trying to do good, and she was trying to set up a restoration home, otherwise known maybe as a rescue place or a safe house for somebody to go.
00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:14.320
And she decided, you know, I'm gonna get involved and I'm gonna stop this and I'm gonna open a place.
00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:29.840
But her, you shared with her that the traffic, the trafficking task force couldn't send victims to her home because it didn't comply with the law, didn't have the permits, didn't comply with various, you know, building and other safety codes.
00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:40.159
Why is the condition of a well-meaning rescue or safe home, why is that relevant to whether a victim should be sent there or not?
00:55:40.639 --> 00:55:44.559
Oh my goodness, we should do another episode on that.
00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:48.320
It has crossed my mind that this might be a multiple part episode.
00:55:48.719 --> 00:55:49.440
Yeah, yeah.
00:55:49.599 --> 00:56:17.840
Uh um, I don't know how long people stay on to listen, but yeah, guidelines for running a restoration home, especially if you're housing children under the age of 18, are very strict, and we have enough evidence of poor actors who have caused more damage than good.
00:56:18.320 --> 00:56:22.559
And so the guidelines are there for safety.
00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:43.360
And I think one of the most important things, people have good hearts, but if they don't have the knowledge and insight to do this with best practice, with pure motives, and blamelessly, they can actually cause harm instead of good.
00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:48.239
They can do things because it makes them feel good.
00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:53.440
They get celebrated, they get awards, all of that kind of thing.
00:56:53.599 --> 00:57:04.719
And I'm not one to talk, I get awards, but I try to, you know, keep them on a back shelf because the real job is to educate our community.
00:57:05.119 --> 00:57:16.559
But ultimately, and from my faith platform, my faith, I want that third element of blameless.
00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:27.679
And I talk about this in the book because when it doesn't go well, when we haven't done our due diligence, people blame God.
00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:37.199
And that breaks down the opportunity for belonging in this community of faith.
00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:46.559
And so people with good intentions, we all know the adage of the road to um hell is paved with good intentions.
00:57:46.719 --> 00:58:02.079
But if you're not willing to do the work, um, if you're not willing to get the license to fill out the paper, um, to persevere, you're probably not going to stick it out as long as a survivor.
00:58:02.239 --> 00:58:04.639
There are no instant solutions.
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:10.239
So the guidelines, the laws are there for a reason.
00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:19.360
And sometimes they may feel burdensome, but the purpose is to protect the victim.
00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:25.920
And I'm going to follow those guidelines, even though I get frustrated.
00:58:26.079 --> 00:58:42.320
I'm not taking shortcuts because I do know that in my community we have really strong partners doing great work, and we can find the resources that we need as a community.
00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:49.280
And honestly, here in our community, we're both here in Orange County, California.
00:58:49.599 --> 00:58:56.800
Our community has a very strong response to support survivors of human trafficking.
00:58:57.119 --> 00:58:57.679
That's great.
00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:03.599
And that's something that we can always improve on, even here, and it should be replicated everywhere.
00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:10.000
Uh, there's almost no end to the level of attention and resources that we need to dedicate and diligence to tackling this.
00:59:10.159 --> 00:59:17.599
I think we're desensitized a lot in our culture right now that we think, oh, it's not my problem, or it's everybody's different.
00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:24.079
And so, you know, I shouldn't say something, but it just like the sun at the airport, if something seems off, speak up.
00:59:24.320 --> 00:59:24.639
Right?
00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:27.920
It's actually a bit more articulate than that, but that one's not so bad.
00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:34.480
So, Doctor, what advice do you have to code enforcement officers and cities?
00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:37.360
Your chance to speak to them kind of directly right here.
00:59:37.599 --> 00:59:43.440
What advice do you have to them to help contribute to solving this issue in a meaningful way?
00:59:43.760 --> 00:59:52.239
I think um, including your city manager, your city council, and getting those protocols in writing.
00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:59.840
So if there's something in your city policies that is missing, add that.
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:12.400
Go to city council meetings, ask why aren't we checking on why minors are at this motel at 12 o'clock on Wednesday afternoon?
01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:16.079
Do we have guidelines for massage parlors?
01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:27.679
That's a big movement right here in Orange County right now to have city councils have guidelines for illicit massage parlors, how to uncover them.
01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:36.480
There are some illicit massage parlors that are clearly um being used for commercial sex.
01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:42.960
Oh, we've handled, I can tell you that I have personally handled dozens and dozens of those cases, and they exist all over.
01:00:43.280 --> 01:01:18.960
And I think too, understanding the risk of the movement to legalize prostitution, understanding the harms of commercial sexual exploitation to the person, to the community, and understanding more than just, oh, I don't believe in prostitution, but understanding why, so that we can articulately communicate when we're at city council why we don't want to legalize this.
01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:24.480
2008, San Francisco tried to legalize prostitution.
01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:25.039
Dr.
01:01:25.119 --> 01:01:30.400
Melissa Farley, a dear friend up there, really fought that battle.
01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:35.119
But the battle is coming back, and we can use our platforms.
01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:43.440
I talk about the quality model on my podcast, and I'm sure that there's opportunity.
01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:57.360
I'll give you a list of names of people you can you can talk to about how city councils can create a policy that then code enforcement can implement.
01:01:57.920 --> 01:01:58.480
Wonderful.
01:01:58.639 --> 01:01:59.519
Thank you very much.
01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:06.800
So for all our folks out there, make sure that you're building out your municipal code or if you're a county county code to include these things.
01:02:06.880 --> 01:02:18.800
In addition, if you're in California, we have the Red Light abatement law, which declares that any building or place used for lewd lascivious conduct, including prostitution, is a nuisance, no surprise there.
01:02:18.880 --> 01:02:20.480
And we have an array of tools.
01:02:20.639 --> 01:02:26.400
And I call that for those of you who know me, you know, obviously don't pinch the bees, take the beehive in that case.
01:02:26.480 --> 01:02:27.599
And that's that's a good one there.
01:02:27.679 --> 01:02:29.760
So, Doctor, you've been very generous with your time.
01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:33.519
I feel like we could honestly go down a hundred different other topics here.
01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:36.480
There's so much, but thank you so much for the work you do.
01:02:36.559 --> 01:02:42.000
And thank you so much for joining us today to talk with us about the role of code enforcement in human trafficking.
01:02:42.320 --> 01:02:46.960
And I'm going to invite you to be on my podcast very, very soon.
01:02:47.119 --> 01:02:48.719
So thank you for having me.
01:02:49.039 --> 01:02:49.760
I'd be honored.
01:02:49.840 --> 01:02:50.800
Thank you, Doctor.
01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:54.800
Uh, folks, thank you for joining us for this episode of True Code.
01:02:54.880 --> 01:03:01.440
Please keep your ears peeled, I guess, for future episodes on our next episode of True Code Podcast.
01:03:01.599 --> 01:03:02.400
Thank you.
01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:07.679
Thank you for joining us on this journey.
01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:13.599
If you enjoyed what you heard, don't forget to subscribe, follow, rate, and review us wherever you're listening right now.
01:03:13.760 --> 01:03:15.039
Until next time.
00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:08.640
When most people think of human trafficking, they imagine something dramatic.
00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:11.279
Abductions, locked doors, scenes for movies.
00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:13.519
But in reality, it often looks ordinary.
00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:20.960
A workplace, an apartment, a business operating in plain sight, a motel or a hotel, even on the street, on corners, and in parking lots.
00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:24.079
And the people most likely to notice it, they're not always law enforcement.
00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:26.399
They're the ones already walking through these spaces every day.
00:00:26.559 --> 00:00:29.039
Code enforcement, community advocates, and others.
00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:34.799
It starts as a typical complaint, noise, foot traffic, maybe suspected illegal activity at a blinded motel.
00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:37.359
But as code enforcement digs a little deeper, patterns emerge.
00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:42.399
Code enforcement primarily deals with nuisances, but in this scenario, it's not just a nuisance case anymore.
00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:46.560
It's a potential human trafficking situation hiding behind everyday complaints.
00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:51.039
This isn't just happening overseas, it's happening here in California and across the U.S.
00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:53.280
in massive, terrifying numbers.
00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:57.759
Stay tuned to learn all about human trafficking and the role of code enforcement.
00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:12.799
From Civic Allah, this is True Code, a podcast explaining what code enforcement is, why our communities need it, and why you should care.
00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:18.959
From firsthand experiences, we discuss quality of life issues to reveal the truth about code enforcement.
00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:41.599
Dr.
00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:45.920
Morgan is an educator, a nurse, an author, a podcaster.
00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:54.799
She wears a million different hats and is recognized globally for her expertise in combating human trafficking and working to end violence against women and children.
00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:55.439
Dr.
00:01:55.519 --> 00:02:10.639
Morgan's experience serving exploited women, men, and children includes direct care as a pediatric nurse, a volunteer with Doctors of the World, and as a past administrator of the Orange County, Orange County, California, not Florida, Human Trafficking Task Force.
00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:11.199
Dr.
00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:18.479
Morgan recently served as co-chair of the public-private partnership advisory council to end human trafficking by presidential appointment.
00:02:18.639 --> 00:02:32.240
She hosts the Ending Human Trafficking podcast with listeners in countries all over the world and is co-author of a great book on human trafficking entitled Ending Human Trafficking: a Handbook of Strategies for the Church Today.
00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:32.719
Dr.
00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:35.520
Morgan, thank you so much and welcome to the show.
00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:37.280
Thank you for having me.
00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:42.960
I'm very excited that you've started this amazing podcast.
00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:50.560
Having been in podcasting now for 15 years, it is a time commitment.
00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:55.919
And it actually doing something like this is a little niche.
00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:59.919
We're never going to be on Saturday night live.
00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:09.199
But we are going to educate the people in our community and make a difference in ending human trafficking.
00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:10.319
So thank you so much.
00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:13.039
I can't wait for this conversation.
00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:13.919
Wonderful.
00:03:14.080 --> 00:03:14.800
Yeah, thank you.
00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:15.280
Thank you.
00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:18.960
And I have so many questions about your podcast and your experience and all those things.
00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:21.199
And, you know, perhaps we start there.
00:03:21.360 --> 00:03:23.199
For us, we started this podcast.
00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:25.360
And like you said, it's a huge time investment.
00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:30.319
Um, it's not something that uh really makes any money or anything.
00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:42.240
We do this for really one reason, and that is to shine the light on what local government does, what code enforcement does, why we do it, where we trip, and where we, you know, try to do well.
00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:43.919
What about you, Doctor?
00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:46.639
Why did you start uh your podcast?
00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:55.199
Well, the podcast came out of the experience of one of my Global Center for Women in Justice board members.
00:03:55.520 --> 00:04:04.800
And if he hadn't said, don't worry, you just show up, I'll take care of all of the production, I probably never would have done this.
00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:20.639
And then when his podcast, which I want to give a shout out to Dave Stahoviak, coaching for leaders, when it exploded and I had to go solo, um, I it was like second nature.
00:04:20.879 --> 00:04:37.199
Sign on, have a conversation, and share our knowledge and insight so that together we build a community that can collaboratively do something that makes a difference.
00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:48.160
When I was still a young pediatric night nurse, I had my very first case of human trafficking.
00:04:48.319 --> 00:05:01.759
It's so long ago we didn't even have that language, but I knew that something was desperately wrong when I admitted a 14-year-old boy at 2 a.m.
00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:08.800
whose mother and stepfather were selling him to support their substance abuse.
00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:15.839
And Doctor, right there, uh, when you say selling him, we mean selling him for sex to people.
00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:16.720
Yes.
00:05:16.959 --> 00:05:17.360
Yes.
00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:41.199
Yeah, this this was an episode in preparing for this where I had to really kind of settle my stomach and my nerves in advance because even though those in code enforcement are certainly not um new to dealing with tragedy and tough issues, this issue is so particularly angering and upsetting that uh there's an there's an element where you almost have to gurge yourself to even talk about it or use these words.
00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:44.720
Do you do you feel that now still?
00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:46.720
I absolutely.
00:05:46.879 --> 00:06:12.480
And and I do think that um because I do this from my faith platform, that that gives me a certain amount of stability and support in community that allows me to keep doing this day after day, week after week, month after month, and literally year after year.
00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:20.720
And the issues um require fresh insight, new partners.
00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:30.639
And the reason I stay at Vanguard University is because every year they bring me another freshman class.
00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:52.959
And my students, I was just in Romania working with our State Department, our embassy, and nonprofits, NGOs, government, ministry of education, all of these people in a country where we are still seeing young people trafficked to all parts of the world.
00:06:53.199 --> 00:07:16.240
And while I was there, I got a text from one of my alums who, when he was a freshman, signed up for the Women in Justice Minor, became a member of the Live to Free Club, started going out into the high schools to educate um younger students about the risks of being trafficked.
00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:28.079
And now he's texting me because as he's grown and developed his career in law enforcement, it was his first collar.
00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:36.879
And he put the handcuffs on a trafficker selling a teenage girl as an FBI agent.
00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:49.920
And I thought every class that comes on my campus is another opportunity to send qualified, knowledgeable leaders into the front line.
00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:50.480
Right.
00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:50.879
Yeah.
00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:54.160
I mean, you're not just giving the fish, you're teaching people how to fish.
00:07:54.319 --> 00:08:00.879
And in this case, they're going out and they're fishers of, you know, fishers of justice, I guess, in that sense.
00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:03.040
They're going on protecting the vulnerable.
00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:06.079
And they get to do things I can't do.
00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:09.439
I mean, you know, they're not gonna let me go put handcuffs on any.
00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:12.399
So that would feel good with some of this.
00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:19.199
So there is so much to unpack there, but I but I I would like to start with, you know, your your initial story is so impactful.
00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:22.079
You are a nighttime pediatric nurse.
00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:23.439
We're talking to you now.
00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:26.000
You're a professor, podcaster, author.
00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:29.519
You have revolved your life around the subject of human trafficking.
00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:31.839
How did you get from there to here?
00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:42.080
Um, you know, I have I have students that come in and sit in my office and ask me, so what major should I do to be you?
00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:47.679
And it's like, well, actually, um the secret is you need to get old.
00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:54.960
Um it's it's lots of life experience and serving in anything.
00:08:55.200 --> 00:09:06.000
I grew up in a household where my dad um taught scripture at the kitchen table around the fireplace.
00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:16.240
And I remember being told as a very young child, whatever you see to do, whatever your hand finds, do it.
00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:25.279
And I've that's how I ended up being a volunteer for Doctors of the World um shelter in Athens, Greece.
00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:29.600
And it was not because of my nursing that they wanted me.
00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:39.200
It was because at one point I had decided I needed to get certified to teach English as a second language.
00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:47.519
And the director of the shelter said, what we really need is a way to instill hope in survivors.
00:09:47.759 --> 00:09:49.039
We recover them.
00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:52.000
I we don't even like to use the word rescue.
00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:59.279
We recover and bring them into a place for restoration and rehabilitation.
00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:01.360
And they're so broken.
00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:09.279
And one of the most important things starting out on that restoration journey is building hope.
00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:21.440
And when they learn a new skill, learning English meant they could qualify for some jobs that our US Embassy had partnered with the Hilton Hotel.
00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:27.360
And when they passed a certain level, they could qualify for some part-time jobs.
00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:38.960
So I have a lot of different things teaching English, nursing, becoming a professor, because I understand that research is critical.
00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:41.919
You can't just think you know the answer.
00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:44.159
You have to test that.
00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:50.639
And that testing is really the bottom line for discernment and wisdom.
00:10:50.799 --> 00:11:02.240
We talk about those spiritual practices, but they are not like you put your hands out in front of you and somehow the universe manifests some knowledge.
00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:08.960
It's hard work to do the research, to get the numbers, to investigate.
00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:16.159
And it's one of the things that I actually love about code enforcement work.
00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:16.799
Okay.
00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:18.960
Well, we definitely want to touch on that.
00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:30.799
Um, kind of going back a step, when you were there that night in the ER and that poor traffic kid came in, did you right then have an aha moment where you said, I am going to find a way to get involved in this?
00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:32.639
Or did it gnaw you?
00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:34.480
Is this something you discerned over time?
00:11:34.639 --> 00:11:35.360
Or how did that happen?
00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:36.720
How'd that transition occur?
00:11:37.039 --> 00:11:46.720
I I think I think it stayed with me and was a touch point when I saw other things happening.
00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:49.440
And it's like, oh, I've seen that before.
00:11:49.679 --> 00:12:02.320
Before we had the Trafficking Victims Protection Act in 2000, we already had laws that did not permit sexual assault.
00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:24.639
And so we knew this was wrong, but we didn't have the best strategies for engaging, for prosecuting the perpetrators, for understanding the greed element, the money as a driving force in this.
00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:45.759
And so it was the kind of knowledge that I acquired a little at a time, and it became a more developed process when we actually had a law, and I could say, ah, that's what that is.
00:12:46.080 --> 00:13:09.759
And for many of the things, for instance, here at the Global Center for Women and Justice, our mission statement when we started in 2003 under our founders, I wasn't even here, uh, is to advance the global status of women and reduce violence against women and girls, which is a global issue.
00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:17.759
And sometimes, honestly, getting people to pay attention to those things is difficult.
00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:26.799
But when human trafficking became more visible on in the public square, people paid attention.
00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:40.799
So the issues I was already addressing child sexual abuse, um, violence uh against women, domestic violence, family violence, they're all under the same umbrella.
00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:44.720
And I so it was kind of a two-way street.
00:13:44.960 --> 00:14:11.600
I got to talk about the issues that were really dear to me, and I began to have a um a growing understanding of how connected they were to the horrific, total composite of what human trafficking looks like, what it is, and how we develop strategies to end it.
00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:17.039
So to to put just a finger on it, how how should we define human trafficking?
00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:19.120
What is human trafficking in your book?
00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:21.440
You talk about that there's two different types.
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:31.200
I think most people think of, as you also point out in your book, that human trafficking is really sex trafficking, but which is huge, a huge part, but there is labor trafficking.
00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:33.919
So, number one, Doctor, what is human trafficking?
00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:35.200
How do we put a finger on it?
00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:39.200
And secondly, uh, can you talk about those two different kinds and the drivers?
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:48.240
So if you're looking at how to define this, you know, the law and urine law, it's pages and pages and pages.
00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:54.480
But if you want to have it on one slide, think of having three columns.
00:14:54.720 --> 00:15:08.320
And in one column, you have the ways that a person is obtained, recruited, moved, transported around the block or across a state or across a border.
00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:13.919
And then the process, the means by which that was done.
00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:30.320
And there are three elements legally that we have to prove for an adult victim of labor or sex trafficking, and we have to prove whether it was force, fraud, or coercion.
00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:46.720
And force is kind of some of the very dramatic images we have from movies like Taken, and somebody is kidnapping a girl or throwing them in a white van and driving off.
00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:53.200
Um, but that's not nearly as common as fraud.
00:15:53.679 --> 00:16:02.159
And even mentioning the movie Taken, um Hollywood needs to sell tickets for you to go see that.
00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:14.799
But the real trafficking, more likely, would have happened by two guys making friends with two girls, inviting them to a party.
00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:19.600
There would have been no dramatic, violent, lamp-breaking scene.
00:16:19.759 --> 00:16:24.399
They would have just gone to the party and we'd never see them again.
00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:28.320
But a six-minute movie doesn't sell very many tickets.
00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:28.879
Right.
00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:29.360
Yeah.
00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:37.279
And grooming is that that is certainly under the rubric of coercion, fraud, force.
00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:45.519
Um, but that's a long-term play, usually taking place online, ultimately resulting in a meeting, perhaps like you just talked about at a party.
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:46.320
Is that right?
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:46.960
Yes.
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:55.200
And grooming can happen because of social media now a lot faster than it than we used to see.
00:16:55.600 --> 00:17:04.240
But the grooming becomes sometimes wrapped up in kind of what we call a lover boy scenario.
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:11.680
Even in labor trafficking, this idea that I see you and I'm your friend and I'm gonna help you.
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:35.039
And now part of the coercion isn't the threat of we're going to beat you and um we're going to kill your family, although that kind of coercion happens frequently, but the coercion of you're not gonna be able to stay here, um, I'm not going to love you anymore.
00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:38.559
Um, you're not gonna be part of our group.
00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:49.039
And so that kind of of manipulation around belonging and identity is all part of that grooming process.
00:17:49.279 --> 00:17:58.880
I think one of the podcasts that I've done that really explains that well is an interview with Rachel Thomas.
00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:15.680
And if you look up our podcast and search Rachel, she's probably a frequent flyer on the podcast, but she talks about coercion in a way that um our kids understand what dogs.
00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:16.480
Thank you.
00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:27.039
And for our listeners in our, we'll make sure that we share a link to these podcasts, um, both the doctors podcasts and other affiliated podcasts that we're aware of on there as well.
00:18:27.119 --> 00:18:29.119
And same with the book, which we're gonna get into.
00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:35.599
So, Doctor, just even that I could, I could literally feel my blood pressure rising and the fury building up.
00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:44.240
A lot of our listeners, in fact, all of our listeners who are in government and many people who are not in government who are our listeners, uh, these are people who want to do good.
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:48.240
And so, uh, and your book talks about that kind of thing.
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:52.960
But on your chat, I want to talk first about your cherished belonging comment right there.
00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:54.720
Uh, your belonging to community.
00:18:54.880 --> 00:19:04.960
You know, we um had a conversation about uh community, and it came up with a book that I don't know if you know Father Greg Boyle, who works with Homeboy Industries.
00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:08.640
Yeah, and he wrote a great book very recently called Cherished Belonging.
00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:25.119
And his whole principle of it is that a big source of dysfunction in our society, which is not unique to America, but we have a particularly American dysfunction in our society uh at certain times, like right now, stems from a lack of belonging or a lack of sense of belonging.
00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:27.200
So does that play into this?
00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:34.240
When you talk about a sense of uh people actually being trafficked because their so-called friends are telling them you can't be part of our community anymore.
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:37.839
What is the role of community and belonging in being trafficked?
00:19:38.160 --> 00:20:04.799
Well, there's a pretty common understanding of how, particularly in sex trafficking, the trafficker has a relationship with usually girls and women being sold, and they have a common language, maybe even considering each other uh family and wifey and sisters, those kinds of things.
00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:25.920
And so when the trafficking is identified and we try to remove someone, their reason for not walking out of that circumstance are sometimes around their commitment to their fellow victims.
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:43.920
And even just like we've seen and we can learn from looking back at where we've been with domestic violence, we we opened shelters and women, we would get them out of a violent marriage, and then they would go back.
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:46.559
And everybody's like, why?
00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:52.720
And and eventually the research showed they it would take seven times before they left.
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:55.599
And they may not even be alive to leave at that point in time.
00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:59.519
Well, yes, and it's pretty much the same thing.
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:07.839
The uh there's the issue around trauma bonding and the idea that you're part of this tight-knit family.
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:41.920
And even in court, we have cases where a victim, we have witness testimony, we know this is a uh victim of violent sex trafficking, and yet at the end of the trial, and the sentencing is sending the trafficker away for 20 years or more, um, the victim is writing a letter to the court for mercy, and he still loves me.
00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:51.839
And those that that just really speaks to how deeply belonging is part of our humanity.
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.079
Is so central to who we are, the need to belong.
00:21:56.240 --> 00:22:03.680
Uh, I mean, you can watch TV shows, a lot of reality shows really center on the Concept of a need to belong, even in dysfunctional situations.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:09.119
Um, so Doctor, is human trafficking something that is unique to America?
00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:11.440
Does it happen all over the world?
00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:15.039
Is where does America play in this issue?
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:22.960
I love that very specific focus on our US role in combating human trafficking.
00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:26.960
Very obviously, it is a global tragedy.
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:34.559
And in some places, thousands of people are in state-run slavery.
00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:53.119
Um, a few years ago, we passed the Uyghur uh prevention law so that we have to look at that kind of the products that are coming into our borders that are produced by literally slave labor.
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:57.599
We see generational slavery in brick kilns.
00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:19.920
We see slavery right now, forced criminality in Asia, where big warehouses have been converted to AI chatbot scamming factories, and young people are recruited through fraud, saying, here's a job in the tech industry.
00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:44.880
And then they arrive and they are literally captives in this warehouse, scamming people predominantly in Western nations, and just I don't have 25 stats yet, but in 2024, 4.0 billion dollars mostly with our elder community, six and over.
00:23:45.359 --> 00:24:00.160
And so the intersection of crime and exploitation and human trafficking is in every corner of our globe, every part of our community.
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:15.200
And we see the devastation it wreaks on um talking to a woman last month who lost her life savings, lost her life savings to an online scam.
00:24:15.440 --> 00:24:21.680
And then I took a survey in my class because I'm thinking, oh, this is really rare.
00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:31.599
Half of my students had a family member who had been scammed from anywhere from a few hundred dollars to several thousand dollars.
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:36.400
So human trafficking impacts us in lots of different ways.
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:38.160
Yeah, that's a great point, Doctor.
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:52.480
It's sometimes hard to think about how human trafficking impacts beyond the immediate victim who's being trafficked, but you raise a really interesting point about uh these slave labor farms in Asia, for example, in that scenario.
00:24:52.559 --> 00:25:03.279
Uh, and I think about like some of these online sites where people think they can go buy cheap clothing, and that is made by the hands of little kids who are being trafficked.
00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:04.240
Is that right?
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:05.359
Absolutely.
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:16.480
And in fact, right now, I want to invite you to Vanguard in October 2026 for our annual Fair Trade Fashion Show.
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:33.119
Live to Free has been doing this for 10 years to draw attention to how fast fashion drives human trafficking and substandard working conditions.
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:40.880
Uh, over a hundred people killed when a factory collapsed in Bangladesh uh several years ago.
00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:43.920
And we just see this over and over again.
00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:49.119
If something is too good to be true, it isn't true.
00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:55.519
Someone else is paying the price, and that may be with their own blood, sweat, and tears.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:16.240
One of my favorite things to teach people about the law of supply and demand and where human trafficking shows up is in chocolate because there are a lot of things that are produced, we know, have slave labor contamination, but we need to have them.
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:31.359
It's like people do need to wear clothes, and it's very difficult to actually do a supply chain audit to show that the shirt you're wearing, for example, is totally slave-free.
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:34.640
So I focus on chocolate.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:48.799
We know that there are over 200,000 child slaves on cocoa plantations in West Africa so that you can have cheap chocolate.
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:51.039
So it costs a little more.
00:26:51.200 --> 00:27:07.119
There are some arguments about why we would support another certification for fair trade, but I want to buy chocolate that is not contaminated by slavery.
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:15.519
Doctor, that's the understatement of the week here, uh, I think, because I it never occurred to me that chocolate, to think of it that way.
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:24.880
It's not that there's literally people, they may not even be physically molding the chocolate, but and they may be as well, but they're also out there in the supply chain.
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:36.960
And so I think a takeaway message for our listeners here and for myself, this is something I'm gonna be thinking about for a while, is it's not just that we're called to fight human trafficking.
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:45.920
And those of us here in local government and law enforcement and our code enforcement folks, you are called to fight this plague on our society and our humanity.
00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:56.559
However, we also have to look and make sure we're not participating in it by purchasing things, cheap clothing, chocolate, whatever, that uh ate it.
00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:15.599
I remember back in when we were deep in the fight against the Taliban and Al-Qaeda and whatnot, that there was a big call, you know, all the more reason not to do drugs, i.e., heroin, for example, because it comes from poppy farms uh in Afghanistan that then helped fund the war to help kill Americans and our soldiers.
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:25.440
And so we have to look in the mirror sometimes to realize am I playing an accidental role, an inadvertent role in this, even though, of course, our intent is not there.
00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:27.039
It's a great point, Doctor.
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:28.160
Absolutely.
00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:42.720
And we can begin to evaluate those kinds of things, and we we have to be um mindful of how we make change um and how we call others.
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:49.599
I'm always cautioning my students about don't go around pointing at people and calling them out.
00:28:50.079 --> 00:29:01.359
And when um when you start down the fair trade um path, you need to also look at um supply chain transparency.
00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:09.839
And California, notably, was the first to pass a supply chain transparency act in 2010.
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:22.079
And now it's been replicated in several other spaces, although ours does need to be beefed up and have some actual teeth, but that's another discussion.
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:46.160
But when we think about what we can do by voting with our dollars and by the our supply chain transparency act here in California requires companies with revenue over a certain amount to have an online policy and a way for consumers to um question.
00:29:46.559 --> 00:30:00.960
And so when you see something, check it out, write to that company, ask, because every time you do, um, it compounds the number of people who have so that they're going to pay attention.
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:17.119
And our child labor iLab in the Department of Justice actually did an app called Sweat and Toil, and it has over a thousand pages of research behind it.
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:25.599
And in the Sweat and Toil app, you pop it up on your phone with your kids so you begin to teach them from a young age.
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:29.440
We get to make choices for justice.
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:37.039
And you look at the bananas and you pull that up and you look at the label to see where they are from.
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:42.480
And on your app, children may be involved, may not necessarily.
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:49.839
Then I'm not gonna buy those and support that cheap business line for that particular grocer.
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:56.480
I'm gonna choose something else, and that may mean I'm buying local, which is always a good thing too.
00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:04.400
So our choices do change other people's lives, and we may never know those people.
00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:05.200
Right.
00:31:05.440 --> 00:31:08.319
And uh they can be for the better or the worse.
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:29.440
Um, so you're saying that the sweat and toil app is something people could download and actively use to see if the products they're looking at purchasing, like I'm standing at the grocery store and looking at a can of soup or something, and I can actively look this brand up on this app, sweat and toil, to determine whether it may be involved in human trafficking along the line.
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:38.400
Yeah, you can look up um cotton coming from Uzbekistan and see um the kind of exploitation.
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:41.279
I think there's like five different symbols.
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:55.839
And I I love it for introducing trafficking, particularly to children, because it's focused on labor trafficking and we don't have to deal with the um age-appropriate sexual content.
00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:04.640
I think the other thing that I love about that app is how it's so much a part of our everyday life.
00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:13.279
We, unless you're doing all your shopping online, um, we are in the community, we are making decisions.
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:34.640
And the reason I wanted to be part of your podcast and talk about code enforcement is because we look so often at um the FBI and Department of Justice and our police officers, and you guys, you go find the traffickers.
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:46.319
But code enforcement officers have a very unique place where they see things because of their priority for public safety.
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:51.279
They have to go in and check when there's something that gets reported.
00:32:51.519 --> 00:33:04.640
And over and over again, we have case uh reports where it was a code enforcement officer that identified a trafficking situation.
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:06.319
Absolutely.
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:08.240
And that is code enforcement.
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:13.519
I call the Swiss Army tool because they really do get called in for all sorts of things.
00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:26.160
Sometimes they get called in, and what they're called for turns into a very different thing in reality that they're finding, but they are often the first people that the public interacts with, uh, maybe the only people from local government that they ever interact with.
00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:31.599
And then in other cases, they may be the first people in to identify a situation like this.
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:32.720
So let's talk about that.
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:38.720
How a code of forcing officer gets called out, say, to a uh a call about a junkie motel.
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:45.119
What should they be looking for to spot a potential human trafficking scenario?
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:50.240
Well, I think they're they're looking for things that are out of place.
00:33:50.799 --> 00:34:12.480
Um uh I remember when I was a brand new task force administrator talking to an attorney from San Francisco, and their code enforcement folks had been out on a call because of a roach report in a restaurant.
00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:21.679
And when they got there, um they went in and and they were like, what's over, what's over there?
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:27.840
And it looks like this might have part of the problem with the roach investment.
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:40.079
Well, open the door, and there's a dozen mattresses laid out on the floor, and they discover that this is a hub for labor trafficking.
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:52.079
No one leaves the restaurant, the cooks, the waiter, the waitress, and they uncovered a huge um trafficking situation in in hotels.
00:34:52.719 --> 00:34:59.920
The um code enforcement is gonna be called out because of public safety, right?
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:15.519
And so when they see underage kids, girls and boys that aren't in school during the daytime when they're doing their normal eight to five, that raises questions.
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:30.400
And I I think one of the things that we want to be really careful about, because I can paint code enforcement officers as heroes, but I don't want them acting like they've got a Superman cape.
00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:37.519
I I want them to understand safety protocols for themselves and for the victims.
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:58.000
If if you see something and you're pretty sure it's human trafficking, you need to make sure in your particular city, county, what the protocols are for reporting to get the right kind of backup because traffickers are criminals.
00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:16.400
And as a as a nurse, and I worked with Derek Marsh, the um co-founder of our Orange County Human Trafficking Task Force, and he really taught me how important it is to think about safety first.
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:27.599
And the traffickers often have weapons, they often have the ability to harm people in other spaces that we don't know about.
00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:45.119
So if your code enforcement team hasn't had training, this is something that needs to become a priority in order to make sure that there is a protocol because we don't want to put possible victims at risk.
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:48.480
And safety is always number one.
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:54.800
Well, we including for the protectors, we have a phrase here of we have a phrase here that we need to protect the protectors.
00:36:54.960 --> 00:37:00.079
If you don't have the protectors to protect, just to keep using that word protect, then they can't protect.
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:14.239
Um, and so in California, a couple of years ago, we wrote a law called SP 296, Senate Bill 296, that was the first of its kind in the country that required every city and county in our state to adopt safety standards specific to code enforcement.
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:25.360
And for all of you listening out there that have not yet adopted it, number one, if you're one of our listeners in another state, you need to go to your legislature and your code enforcement association to get that adopted.
00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:27.199
And the scenario that Dr.
00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:29.360
Morgan just pointed out is another reason why.
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:34.320
Secondly, uh, if you have, if you're in California, this needs to be in place.
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:39.519
Um, and it sounds like we need protocols for when you identify human trafficking issues.
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:46.079
So what kind of what kind of specific dangers can we give examples of here?
00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:51.280
And what kind of protections, you know, if you have an idea of that, should code enforcement officers take?
00:37:51.440 --> 00:38:03.039
You, you know, I guess I'm thinking just to put it in concrete terms, let's take your situation where they're in a restaurant for a roach call, and this stuff does happen, and they go in, they discover, they just basically happen upon by accident.
00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:06.559
This is a labor human trafficking, say it's a sex human trafficking.
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:09.599
What should they do that minute forward?
00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:17.519
Well, first of all, the thing you don't do is say, Oh, I'm gonna rescue you and I'm gonna get you out of here.
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:22.320
You always call for appropriate backup for everyday people.
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:31.199
You call 911, but whatever your emergency number is in your area, that's what you do.
00:38:31.679 --> 00:38:39.760
You also don't do anything to put people at risk of violence and harm.
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:43.440
You don't want um a hostage situation.
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:48.960
You don't come out and say, well, this looks like human trafficking, and I'm gonna call.
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:50.639
Excuse me while I call the police.
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:51.199
Uh-huh.
00:38:51.280 --> 00:38:51.679
Uh-huh.
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:53.199
Fill in out your paper.
00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:54.719
That's your job.
00:38:54.960 --> 00:39:00.559
And you call for backup in a careful and safe way.
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:23.280
And there should be protocols now, particularly here in California, where we have some very robust human trafficking task forces up and down the state, where that call-out is going to be accompanied by victim service providers who are going to make sure things are safe.
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:31.760
And sometimes, particularly in labor trafficking, there isn't an immediate go-in and rescue.
00:39:32.079 --> 00:39:42.639
And that's one of the most frustrating things for people who watch a 45-minute episode on TV during the commercial.
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:45.519
They get all the warrants, they do this and that.
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:50.159
And by the end of the show, all the victims are in a beautiful safe house.
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:57.360
It may take time, and we have to stage the like going into a factory.
00:39:57.519 --> 00:40:01.119
We have to have a place to set up to bring the victims.
00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:08.000
We have to have service providers who are trauma-informed and trained to do interviews.
00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:17.519
We may need linguistic support because the victims don't speak English, or in my case, locally, they don't even speak Spanish.
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.239
So I need other linguistic support.
00:40:20.320 --> 00:40:28.239
So there's a lot of background work to do to actually recover the victims.
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:49.360
And when they're foreign national victims, and now we're kind of looping back to that belonging element that we started, it's very hard for them to disclose their trafficking because the coercion may be connected to a family member on another continent.
00:40:49.679 --> 00:41:02.000
And their loyalty to a parent or an uncle may mean that they have to stay in their trafficking from their point of view.
00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:09.519
So it's it's a lot more complicated than just um going in, identifying and rescuing.
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:10.559
Rescuing them.
00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:10.960
Right.
00:41:11.119 --> 00:41:18.000
It's not just all there are the take-in scenarios where there is the rescue and that person's, thank God, I'm out of this.
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:22.800
And they recognize that they should not have been in it and they're out of it, and thank the Lord they're out.
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:35.280
But you're talking about a much more insidious scenario in which um people may not immediately recognize that or may recognize it and feel like they're stuck in that to protect family, for example.
00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:39.039
That means we have to build trust then.
00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:48.800
And in especially with foreign national victims, they often come from countries where trusting law enforcement is not going to happen.
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:55.440
So your frontline service providers like nurses and code enforcement.
00:41:55.599 --> 00:42:01.360
Code enforcement, pretty much their big weapon of choice, if you will, is a clipboard.
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:09.599
Or now I guess it's an um a tablet, but um taken down this and their job is asking questions.
00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:10.960
They don't carry a gun.
00:42:11.119 --> 00:42:15.039
It's a lot easier for someone to answer their questions.
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:28.639
And for a nurse, if somebody's brought into the emergency room, there's a sense that you can trust a healthcare professional because their job is to heal and their job is to ask questions.
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:29.920
Where does it hurt?
00:42:30.159 --> 00:42:31.119
Why does it hurt?
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:32.559
What caused this?
00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:52.639
And those of us who um serve in those frontline roles can be a part of gathering the information, the knowledge that we need, and then pulling the resources to actually safely recover the victims.
00:42:53.039 --> 00:43:00.880
What would you say, though, to somebody who's thinking, if I walk away from this scenario, I see it right now, I've got them red-handed.
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:05.280
If I walk away from this scenario, they're they're gonna lose them.
00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:06.800
They're gonna disappear.
00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:08.960
Um, call 911.
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:16.639
So they call 911, and you talked about how it, you know, even though they they're they're gonna come out for sure.
00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:23.519
But in like a labor trafficking case, there may be a bigger investigation behind the scenes to put it all together.
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:27.519
So you're not just pinching one bee, you're taking down the beehive ultimately.
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:28.480
Is that accurate?
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:29.760
Yes, yes.
00:43:30.000 --> 00:43:36.480
And it is it is very challenging because the lines get blurry for sure.
00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:55.760
But for instance, I had a call one time, and it was very clear that this was likely sex trafficking, and the person was standing on the street watching the car pick the girl up.
00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:59.760
And it's like call 911 and give them the license, please.
00:44:00.719 --> 00:44:09.840
You can do that right now because of course we use the hotline number, which is 888-373788.
00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:20.480
And they can walk you through what you've seen to and and help identify what might or might not be trafficking.
00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:33.440
But in the moment, if a crime may be being committed, it doesn't really matter if it's human trafficking or some other form of criminal activity.
00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:35.280
You call 911.
00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:42.480
And so for a code enforcement officer, your immediate inclination may very well be what mine is, which is I see it.
00:44:42.639 --> 00:44:47.199
I'm gonna, I'm gonna put myself between the perpetrator and these victims, and I'm gonna grab and pull them out.
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:50.079
However, that is not a good idea for the long term.
00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:56.719
Step outside, pretend like you're continuing to write your notes, step outside around the corner, call 911.
00:44:56.800 --> 00:44:59.679
Or if you're out there with a radio, do the radio, call your police.
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:02.800
If you're a coder force nostril, you've got a direct dial to your police.
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:04.480
So call them, get in to do that.
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:06.960
Now, what about less obvious situations?
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:08.320
So let's go back to my motel.
00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:15.199
And I keep going back to the motel because I actively have a couple cases and have had litigate have litigated these over the years.
00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:22.239
You know, there's a great uh white paper by the DOJ on uh the price, it's called the problem with budget motels.
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:25.280
And the problem is beyond just cheap.
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:34.079
The the problem is that oftentimes there's a very strong uh correlation between the some of these budget motels and crime.
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:39.440
And a big, a big place for human trafficking ends up at a motel.
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:42.079
And so uh prostitution, human trafficking.
00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:44.960
A lot of times there's there's a major crossover between those.
00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:56.480
So, what might a code enforcement officer, what signs might a code officer look for when they're going through a place like a hotel or motel that might indicate that there's human trafficking?
00:45:56.559 --> 00:45:58.400
Perhaps in the how they how it operates.
00:45:58.480 --> 00:45:59.760
Do you have any idea of that?
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:04.719
Well, you know, we've got some great civil cases that have been published.
00:46:04.960 --> 00:46:14.719
I think last year in Atlanta, there was a civil case where the victims got like a$40 million settlement.
00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:21.840
And the signs were that the desk had condoms that they made available to the girls when they came in.
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:31.920
The security people seemed to be more about managing, getting people to their reservations.
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:37.679
The rooms were being used for very short amounts of time.
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:44.960
There were multiple cars coming and going during the night or in the afternoon.
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:50.320
There is this kind of romantic sense that this happens after dark.
00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:59.519
But this is why when you see school kids at a hotel at noon, activity has increased during the lunch break.
00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:03.360
And residential brothels are also happening.
00:47:03.440 --> 00:47:14.639
And code enforcement will get uh a call because the neighborhood is really tired of the increased traffic at this one place.
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:26.719
And then they find out that the um it's being run, they go, code enforcement goes in, and there's not even regular furniture.
00:47:26.880 --> 00:47:31.039
The bedrooms just each have two mattresses on the floor.
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:38.800
The whole thing is when something doesn't look right, asking another question.
00:47:39.360 --> 00:47:52.880
And the complaints that corroborate from community members can support your observations, but again, what is your local protocol?
00:47:53.280 --> 00:48:14.400
And this is something that over and over again, and from a legal perspective, one of the things that SB963 that now created a way for nurses and doctors in emergency rooms to screen without risk of liability.
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:19.039
It's really important that you have a written protocol.
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:27.519
And if your code enforcement department doesn't have that yet, just ask when will it be ready?
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:29.039
This week or next week.
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:29.599
Right.
00:48:29.760 --> 00:48:30.719
It needs to be done.
00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:33.519
Protocols are the name of the game these days.
00:48:33.679 --> 00:48:37.360
Policies and procedures, best practices, whatever you want to call it.
00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:39.360
Uh, we need those in place.
00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:45.280
And, you know, I've been doing this 20 years and it probably represented hundreds of agencies uh in California.
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:51.840
And I have, I don't think I've ever seen a policy or procedure involving human trafficking for code enforcement.
00:48:52.000 --> 00:49:00.880
I do think the involvement, the overt involvement of code enforcement in human trafficking is a relatively new thing, but I think it's a good thing for code enforcement to be.
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:05.519
And there's some other indicators that I've seen would be like a motel that charges hourly rates.
00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:10.239
There's no legitimate purpose for it uh affiliate with hourly rates at a motel.
00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:22.159
Uh, I had one where in the manager's quarters they had a price sheet and it was one price for known prostitutes, aka human trafficking victims, and a different price for everybody else.
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:27.679
So they darn well knew and they were charging a higher cost, of course, because they could for criminal activity.
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:33.280
Um see ones like charging cash only, non-traceable, non-trackable kind of stuff.
00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:47.280
We had a case where uh the police went into a motel where they suspected human trafficking was occurring in that moment of a juvenile and they would not give them access or cooperate anyway, even give them the camera uh material.
00:49:47.599 --> 00:49:53.840
So uh, and and I'll share this story that I've shared in a prior episode uh that maybe you've seen before, Doctor.
00:49:54.000 --> 00:50:04.400
And that is I had a code officer uh tell me that in a in a city she works with uh in San Diego County, uh, so we're talking an affluent county in California.
00:50:04.559 --> 00:50:06.400
We think this stuff doesn't happen in our backyards.
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:11.280
California is one of the bigger consumers or locations for human trafficking, shamefully, in our country.
00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:13.360
And it's occurring down there, for example.
00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:22.159
But she was telling me, you know, Matt, I was just on my lunch break and I was just driving in my personal car from point A to point B, and I saw a naked young lady running down the street.
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:24.480
So major red flag, obviously, number one.
00:50:24.639 --> 00:50:27.039
Number two, she went, no one went to help.
00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:28.239
Problem number three.
00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:35.679
Uh, she then goes out and grabs this girl to kind of bring her in and try to put a blanket or something, a coat around her.
00:50:35.840 --> 00:50:41.519
And uh the girl had a barcode tattooed on her, not in some sort of like artsy way.
00:50:41.679 --> 00:50:43.440
It was a trafficking barcode.
00:50:43.519 --> 00:50:51.039
And meanwhile, perhaps the next red flag is while she's got this gal in her car and she's trying to figure out what to do and she's calling the police.
00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:55.760
Uh, this car is circling and she felt very unsafe.
00:50:56.000 --> 00:51:03.039
Have you seen this scenario, I guess, of people literally running naked down the street or this tattoo of a barcode?
00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:07.199
I mean, that's like you scan a can of soup back to my example with a barcode.
00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:08.000
This is a human being.
00:51:08.079 --> 00:51:09.199
Have you seen this before?
00:51:09.599 --> 00:51:27.760
Well, in the early cases here in Orange County and San Diego and LA, there was evidence that trafficking rings would put barcodes on victims and literally keep records by scanning those barcodes.
00:51:27.920 --> 00:51:40.719
And it's um it but here's the thing that happens as the traffickers learn and adapt and change.
00:51:41.199 --> 00:52:00.400
And so if we're looking for people with barcodes, they've moved on, and literally we have evidence now that there have been cases where victims have been chipped, just like you do if your dog gets lost, you can find them.
00:52:00.719 --> 00:52:19.920
So I think the things that are ordinary are more helpful for us to learn when people don't have their own identification documents when you ask where who are you, where are you from, if they don't seem to be working in safe conditions.
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:40.719
It's like I was doing training at a hospital emergency room near a port, and suddenly one of the nurses said, Oh my goodness, that guy that came in with his foot half chopped off, he should have been wearing steel-toed boots by OSHA law.
00:52:40.960 --> 00:53:03.280
And so somebody who's not compliant with basic human resource guidelines in a hotel, in a restaurant, and in landscaping businesses, all those kinds of things in factories, there shouldn't be a 14-year-old running a poultry deboning machine.
00:53:03.840 --> 00:53:05.519
Those kinds of things.
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:14.719
And code enforcement, because they're there to check that ventilation system is okay, they may see something.
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:23.920
And just by reporting that, we may have what we need to go in and uncover a labor trafficking case.
00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:24.880
Absolutely.
00:53:25.119 --> 00:53:44.400
You just made a fantastic case for the continued need for these municipal codes that govern things that seem out of the ordinary, a bad property, an overgrown, you know, a completely overgrown yard, you know, 20 cars, 10 cars in a house, single family house.
00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:54.000
These kind of things very well may be limited to those, but they also may be the old phrase where there's smoke, there's fire, and an indicator of a much bigger problem.
00:53:54.159 --> 00:54:04.000
You know, sometimes here in California and in the legislatures across the state, of across the political spectrum, they get this idea sometimes that we're being too nitpicky on these laws.
00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:06.239
And why are there so many laws getting in the way of people?
00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:09.360
Well, these laws also protect people.
00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:15.599
And so I encourage our legislators to keep an open mind that these laws are traditionally born out of tragedy.
00:54:15.760 --> 00:54:26.719
Let's not forget the history and the source of that, and realize that it may not just be about the number of cars or the rodents in there, which some people may think is a minor, but it's a major issue.
00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:30.400
Um, it may really be a way to protect broader things.
00:54:30.480 --> 00:54:35.280
Or put differently, speaking code enforcement parlance, the broken windows theory.
00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:42.400
Small problems that go ignored lead to bigger problems that go ignored, and then bigger problems lead, of course, to bigger problems.
00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:44.639
And so we need to nip these in the bud.
00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:51.280
Maybe it's not a safe place to go do human trafficking if they know that there are codes that are being followed.
00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:52.719
It's up, it's up to code.
00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:58.800
So, Doctor, you said speaking of that, you said something in your book about um, I actually want to share this here.
00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:10.239
You were you were talking about dealing with a person who was trying to do good, and she was trying to set up a restoration home, otherwise known maybe as a rescue place or a safe house for somebody to go.
00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:14.320
And she decided, you know, I'm gonna get involved and I'm gonna stop this and I'm gonna open a place.
00:55:14.559 --> 00:55:29.840
But her, you shared with her that the traffic, the trafficking task force couldn't send victims to her home because it didn't comply with the law, didn't have the permits, didn't comply with various, you know, building and other safety codes.
00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:40.159
Why is the condition of a well-meaning rescue or safe home, why is that relevant to whether a victim should be sent there or not?
00:55:40.639 --> 00:55:44.559
Oh my goodness, we should do another episode on that.
00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:48.320
It has crossed my mind that this might be a multiple part episode.
00:55:48.719 --> 00:55:49.440
Yeah, yeah.
00:55:49.599 --> 00:56:17.840
Uh um, I don't know how long people stay on to listen, but yeah, guidelines for running a restoration home, especially if you're housing children under the age of 18, are very strict, and we have enough evidence of poor actors who have caused more damage than good.
00:56:18.320 --> 00:56:22.559
And so the guidelines are there for safety.
00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:43.360
And I think one of the most important things, people have good hearts, but if they don't have the knowledge and insight to do this with best practice, with pure motives, and blamelessly, they can actually cause harm instead of good.
00:56:43.679 --> 00:56:48.239
They can do things because it makes them feel good.
00:56:48.480 --> 00:56:53.440
They get celebrated, they get awards, all of that kind of thing.
00:56:53.599 --> 00:57:04.719
And I'm not one to talk, I get awards, but I try to, you know, keep them on a back shelf because the real job is to educate our community.
00:57:05.119 --> 00:57:16.559
But ultimately, and from my faith platform, my faith, I want that third element of blameless.
00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:27.679
And I talk about this in the book because when it doesn't go well, when we haven't done our due diligence, people blame God.
00:57:28.639 --> 00:57:37.199
And that breaks down the opportunity for belonging in this community of faith.
00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:46.559
And so people with good intentions, we all know the adage of the road to um hell is paved with good intentions.
00:57:46.719 --> 00:58:02.079
But if you're not willing to do the work, um, if you're not willing to get the license to fill out the paper, um, to persevere, you're probably not going to stick it out as long as a survivor.
00:58:02.239 --> 00:58:04.639
There are no instant solutions.
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:10.239
So the guidelines, the laws are there for a reason.
00:58:10.559 --> 00:58:19.360
And sometimes they may feel burdensome, but the purpose is to protect the victim.
00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:25.920
And I'm going to follow those guidelines, even though I get frustrated.
00:58:26.079 --> 00:58:42.320
I'm not taking shortcuts because I do know that in my community we have really strong partners doing great work, and we can find the resources that we need as a community.
00:58:42.639 --> 00:58:49.280
And honestly, here in our community, we're both here in Orange County, California.
00:58:49.599 --> 00:58:56.800
Our community has a very strong response to support survivors of human trafficking.
00:58:57.119 --> 00:58:57.679
That's great.
00:58:57.840 --> 00:59:03.599
And that's something that we can always improve on, even here, and it should be replicated everywhere.
00:59:03.760 --> 00:59:10.000
Uh, there's almost no end to the level of attention and resources that we need to dedicate and diligence to tackling this.
00:59:10.159 --> 00:59:17.599
I think we're desensitized a lot in our culture right now that we think, oh, it's not my problem, or it's everybody's different.
00:59:17.679 --> 00:59:24.079
And so, you know, I shouldn't say something, but it just like the sun at the airport, if something seems off, speak up.
00:59:24.320 --> 00:59:24.639
Right?
00:59:25.119 --> 00:59:27.920
It's actually a bit more articulate than that, but that one's not so bad.
00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:34.480
So, Doctor, what advice do you have to code enforcement officers and cities?
00:59:34.639 --> 00:59:37.360
Your chance to speak to them kind of directly right here.
00:59:37.599 --> 00:59:43.440
What advice do you have to them to help contribute to solving this issue in a meaningful way?
00:59:43.760 --> 00:59:52.239
I think um, including your city manager, your city council, and getting those protocols in writing.
00:59:52.639 --> 00:59:59.840
So if there's something in your city policies that is missing, add that.
01:00:00.000 --> 01:00:12.400
Go to city council meetings, ask why aren't we checking on why minors are at this motel at 12 o'clock on Wednesday afternoon?
01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:16.079
Do we have guidelines for massage parlors?
01:00:16.239 --> 01:00:27.679
That's a big movement right here in Orange County right now to have city councils have guidelines for illicit massage parlors, how to uncover them.
01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:36.480
There are some illicit massage parlors that are clearly um being used for commercial sex.
01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:42.960
Oh, we've handled, I can tell you that I have personally handled dozens and dozens of those cases, and they exist all over.
01:00:43.280 --> 01:01:18.960
And I think too, understanding the risk of the movement to legalize prostitution, understanding the harms of commercial sexual exploitation to the person, to the community, and understanding more than just, oh, I don't believe in prostitution, but understanding why, so that we can articulately communicate when we're at city council why we don't want to legalize this.
01:01:19.280 --> 01:01:24.480
2008, San Francisco tried to legalize prostitution.
01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:25.039
Dr.
01:01:25.119 --> 01:01:30.400
Melissa Farley, a dear friend up there, really fought that battle.
01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:35.119
But the battle is coming back, and we can use our platforms.
01:01:35.360 --> 01:01:43.440
I talk about the quality model on my podcast, and I'm sure that there's opportunity.
01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:57.360
I'll give you a list of names of people you can you can talk to about how city councils can create a policy that then code enforcement can implement.
01:01:57.920 --> 01:01:58.480
Wonderful.
01:01:58.639 --> 01:01:59.519
Thank you very much.
01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:06.800
So for all our folks out there, make sure that you're building out your municipal code or if you're a county county code to include these things.
01:02:06.880 --> 01:02:18.800
In addition, if you're in California, we have the Red Light abatement law, which declares that any building or place used for lewd lascivious conduct, including prostitution, is a nuisance, no surprise there.
01:02:18.880 --> 01:02:20.480
And we have an array of tools.
01:02:20.639 --> 01:02:26.400
And I call that for those of you who know me, you know, obviously don't pinch the bees, take the beehive in that case.
01:02:26.480 --> 01:02:27.599
And that's that's a good one there.
01:02:27.679 --> 01:02:29.760
So, Doctor, you've been very generous with your time.
01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:33.519
I feel like we could honestly go down a hundred different other topics here.
01:02:33.599 --> 01:02:36.480
There's so much, but thank you so much for the work you do.
01:02:36.559 --> 01:02:42.000
And thank you so much for joining us today to talk with us about the role of code enforcement in human trafficking.
01:02:42.320 --> 01:02:46.960
And I'm going to invite you to be on my podcast very, very soon.
01:02:47.119 --> 01:02:48.719
So thank you for having me.
01:02:49.039 --> 01:02:49.760
I'd be honored.
01:02:49.840 --> 01:02:50.800
Thank you, Doctor.
01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:54.800
Uh, folks, thank you for joining us for this episode of True Code.
01:02:54.880 --> 01:03:01.440
Please keep your ears peeled, I guess, for future episodes on our next episode of True Code Podcast.
01:03:01.599 --> 01:03:02.400
Thank you.
01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:07.679
Thank you for joining us on this journey.
01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:13.599
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01:03:13.760 --> 01:03:15.039
Until next time.
