WEBVTT
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Do do do do do do.
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Welcome to Trash Talk.
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Welcome to Trash Talk.
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You win.
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We're talking trash today.
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I like that.
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So, Eric, welcome Trash Talk.
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My co partner here.
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Today's episode on Trash Talk.
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You guys, we've got some cool notes.
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For those of you who watch notes.
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Effort not perfection.
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What the heck does that mean?
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I guess it depends on what context you.
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You want to put it in? Okay.
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What does it mean to you personally?
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So effort.
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Not perfection.
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That's a tough one.
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I'm more on the perfectionist side of things.
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So I want everything to be as perfect as possible.
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Whether it's a little effort, a lot of effort, or how much effort it takes.
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You know, I also think about effort in itself is like you can try really hard to do the wrong thing.
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Does that make that, does that mean it's okay.
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I don't think it's okay if it's wrong.
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But you might not know what's wrong at the time.
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Yeah.
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Well and that goes into other layers of like support and you know like expectations and what the actual plan was.
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So yeah. Is failing okay.
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Of course I mean everybody fails.
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Yeah.
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But I think we're we're leaning and I'm just kind of guessing a little bit on this.
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But I think what we're leaning is this whole sometimes when people are trying to be perfect, it stalls them out like it's effort just freezes up on them because they don't know that, you know, they just they want it to be perfect or they don't want to do it.
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And there's, what do they call that?
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Like effort paralysis? It's something like that.
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It's a natural paralysis analysis.
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Paralysis analysis.
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No, I get where that would make effort, not perfection.
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One of the things that I think about is that that concept of like 80, 80% and 20%.
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So you're working on a project, you're coming in, you're getting close to the end of the project.
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You get what we would call 80% of that project managed.
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There's that concept of, well, we got 80.
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Don't worry about the other 20.
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Let's get this thing rolling, and then we'll get into that 20% to bring it to 100.
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I got a problem with that.
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I just don't like it.
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Like, I don't know what 20% isn't important when I think about this.
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I think, yeah, like perfection isn't always going to happen, but you shouldn't assume that 20% of that or so isn't necessary or maybe not critical, right?
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I guess there's the argument there.
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Well, maybe it's not critical to getting things ruled.
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So it probably like if I think of.
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Something that would relate to ABS, let's call it shipping a product out the door.
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Yeah.
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Something tangible, something we both relate to.
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And it's, you know, it's what is 80%, what is 100%.
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And I think your 80% might be different than my 80%.
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Sure. And vice versa.
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But if you look at it to where I mean, that's why we establish milestones and we have goals.
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So we don't have any differences of what 100% is or what the goal is.
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But if you look at two and that just had this conversation with my team last week or the week before last that says, hey, let's get it to 80% and move and take action, because the last 20% of getting it to 100%.
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You're right.
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We could we could sit here in that 20% could take so much time.
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It may not be worth the effort to do it.
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Every scenario is going to be different depending on what it is.
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Safety is going to be different than us building.
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You know, I'll say maybe a small side project in the shop.
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Sure.
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But if we have a project that we're delivering for a customer, we know what 100% is.
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That means bill materials there.
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It's assembled.
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It's tested.
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It's, you know, ship loses its touched up painted decals like it's ready to go out the door.
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We have that list to say exactly what 100% is.
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We wouldn't want to get it to 80%.
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And let's say, oh, let's just we'll do the rest on site to meet the timeline.
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Or let your client. Do it or let your client do it.
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Yeah, but how often do we get into the point of, hey, let's meet this timeline and we'll do the rest on site?
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And I know what that what that means for us.
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It's our cost of getting that done.
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That 20% done just goes up probably ten x at a minimum of doing it in the field versus doing it in our facility.
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Well I think timelines are the Achilles here.
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Timelines really kind of decide whether or not it's going to finish.
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Yeah.
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From an operations perspective we want it at surprise surprise 100%.
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Right.
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And I'll tell you why we wanted it 100% is because we're going to end up having to go back and fix things.
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We're going to have to end up going back and rescheduling things.
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Which is even more money.
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Which even more money, more time.
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You know, we're lucky at the Landfill Group, we can pick from different departments.
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We can pull from those and argue with each other and get it done.
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But if you were truly my client, like, you were like, I didn't know you from Adam, and I ordered some equipment from you.
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I expect it to be 100%. Yeah.
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And so do you. Yeah.
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So where is this effort?
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Not perfection.
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Sit in that bowl.
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Like, where does it sit?
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It's hard. It's hard.
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This is a hard one to argue about. It is.
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Because it really depends on what the goal is.
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You come from the engineering side of the house.
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We're focused on perfection.
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And it being 100% correct.
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Right.
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Well, what that gets you is this sometimes this analysis paralysis to where you're getting it so far.
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And then it needs to go to the next step.
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And it may not make it to the step in the time it needs to make it there so somebody else can carry that on, which then creates a delay.
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Drives the project management side crazy.
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You know, I have this conversation.
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It was shortly after I first came on to the Landfill Group.
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And it was a conversation of hey I want you to do something different.
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I want you to try something different.
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We need to get it to 80%.
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And then I want you to move.
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Now I know it's not going to be 100%.
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And that's okay.
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I want you to get it to 80.
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And I want you to move because I was getting to a point where I'm still learning.
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I'm still learning the product.
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The process is the people, and I'm wanting it to be perfect, but yet I maybe don't exactly know what perfect or 100% is yet.
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Yeah, and it was getting stuck.
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That was an eye opener for me, and I've shared that with many of the employees at ABS in that same manner.
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It's like, okay, we get it close, we can get it to 80%.
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And I want you to take some sort of action.
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Doesn't mean you have to stop working on it or truly hand it off, but I want you to take it.
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Take action.
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And that seems to have helped things progress through station to station within the ABS team.
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If I think about some of this though, is I think I was on the drive here, I was thinking about perfection.
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What's perfection mean?
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It's it can be defined by the person, or it can be defined by something that was set for you, such as a goal or a standard or a set of rules.
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But I also look at perfection as how does it relate to failure and is perfection.
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You know, it's like I consider myself a perfectionist and I'm looking at details in maybe a different way than most because I want it to be as perfect as I can give it.
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Now, is there a more stringent perfectionist out there?
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Probably.
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But is there less? Absolutely.
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And then there's some interpretation from what's perfection to you versus what's perfection to me.
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But I also look at it and I was thinking of this.
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It's like fear of failing.
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Yeah.
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That's where that's where it hits me because I'm like, where and when did I think that perfection was was the.
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Goal was less.
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There isn't a failure in perfection.
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That's right.
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It's like, I want this to be the best that I can possibly get it, because I don't want to fail.
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But to spank, right?
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You fail, you analyze, you adjust, you perfect.
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You fail again.
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You analyze.
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You adjust.
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You perfect.
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100%. It's okay to make mistakes.
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I encourage people to make mistakes because it's not.
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We don't keep track of the number of mistakes you make.
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We keep track of how many times we get back up and how many times we restart.
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Because now we have more information.
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We have more data from making that mistake than we originally had.
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We're in a better starting place.
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We're going to learn from it.
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We're either going to learn or we're going to win.
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There's no failure, right?
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It doesn't exist. Right.
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And that's one thing that's really helped.
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It's like if we want to be better and it's okay to fail.
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Yeah.
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I mean, it paralyzes people, right?
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Like, I remember when I was younger, I know I failed a lot, but it paralyzed me.
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Like, I had a real problem with that.
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Then I got really good at failing.
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Which you should never say. But.
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But managing a failure is important.
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Like the once you've realized that wall that you hit.
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Like, you can pout about it for a week if you want, but if you really quickly look at it and say, man, I found it just done this, or I really could use some help.
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Yeah.
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You know, because most of us want to fix everything ourselves.
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Well, some of us aren't that qualified and we may need some help.
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So did you ever have anybody in your life?
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Say that it's okay to fail? I think so.
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Yeah. I'm pretty sure my mom did.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Because she didn't want me paralyzed, man.
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She wanted me to do it.
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You know, I mean, that's why when I was young, I lived on a farm, so I was kind of blessed that way.
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You fail all the time on a farm.
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You managed some cows or some horses.
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You're going to fail.
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Yeah. Like, they may not want to do what you want to do.
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And that may not just be it, but, you know, there's lots of ways to fail.
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To me.
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You almost got to do it a lot, or you almost got to get through it a lot.
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Yeah, hopefully there's small fails like, you know, not critical.
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Nobody gets hurt.
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Kind of stuff.
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When somebody gets hurt, it changes completely.
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You learn.
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Faster, you learn active a lot faster.
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And and it.
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And it hurts.
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When we look and prepare for risk mitigation.
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I'll give you the scenario.
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We have a crew at a site this week.
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Okay.
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That's performing hot work at one of our at one of our sites.
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And they walked through their job scope and we've got welders there.
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We have assemblers there, we have electrical technicians there.
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And they walk through their job scope at the site.
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The site's going to be shut down for a majority of the work, and then there's some that's not going to be shut down.
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Or does it require a shutdown?
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So we walk through JSAs.
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That's where I wanted to go.
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And I know we're totally getting away from the perfection.
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Hey. That's right. Versus effort.
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But when we talk.
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About perfection and and effort, I think this both apply in this scenario for JSAs.
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So the effort is the JSA part, right.
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That that is, is basically delivering perfection.
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Pretty close.
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It's it's it's as close as I can think of.
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In this step is often missed or mitigated because they're like, oh, we don't need to do this.
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And it could be a small task or it could be an extravagant task, but we've got a hot site or a shutdown beside this just been shut down and we spent the greater part of a week or better, probably closer to two of just doing the JSAs within each person of the ABS team, who has a particular scope of work to mitigate risk and to prepare for the job on site.
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Because it's important, because we've just had process gas running through the entire plant, all to ensure we have perfection, which means everybody's walking home at the end of the day, as good or as better shape than when they started the day.
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So if you could walk us through what a JSA is.
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Sure this would be awesome.
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Okay, so this is pretty cool because JSA is a job safety analysis.
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They're wonderful, and they are essentially writing down what you're going to do and assessing the risk of everything that you do in that process.
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So I'm going to do this task.
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I'm going to need these tools.
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I'm going to need this monitor.
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I'm going to do these steps.
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And when you line them out step by step, what you're going to do, your couple of things happen.
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One, you get organized.
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Yeah it's pretty pretty intense.
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But two you find things that you didn't think of that are essentially a risk for you.
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So you find these things and oh, okay.
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Well we didn't see that.
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So we go in and we readjust that JSA because you can change it.
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And, you know, they say you can do a JSA on it on a napkin if you do it accurately enough.
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So it doesn't really matter how you put it on the paper.
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What matters is that what they're doing is true.
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Those are the true steps that they're taking.
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They're not cutting any corners on that because they've assessed each step for the risk associated with it.
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So just one person is not going to walk through the JSA, right?
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It's the worst thing in the world for you to do a JSA and to give it to one of your people.
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Yeah.
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Like they need to be engaged in the JSA, and they need to be writing down what it is they're going to do.
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If you do it and just say, well, I did step three and four. Yep.
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He wants me to do what?
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Like I'm not doing that.
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Like that's not going to work.
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And we've seen it not work.
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We've done it ourselves.
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And we we like to fail occasionally and so we could learn.
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Well, that's how you learn. That's how we learn.
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I mean. Yeah, but our guys have found.
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And like, I've been trying really hard to to like, not say safety but maybe say efficiency because like some people would, would prefer efficiency.
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And I'm, I'm talking about the people doing the job over safety.
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Oh look I got to get this done.
00:14:56.644 --> 00:14:59.480
This is an efficient way to do it. 123.
00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:00.732
This is the steps.
00:15:00.732 --> 00:15:01.859
That's fantastic.
00:15:01.859 --> 00:15:03.818
And the teams learn a lot from that.
00:15:03.818 --> 00:15:06.779
But there's a real good chance that they're going to miss something.
00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:09.158
And if you put it together, they're for sure.
00:15:09.158 --> 00:15:11.534
Yeah, absolutely.
00:15:09.158 --> 00:15:11.534
So it has to be practical.
00:15:11.534 --> 00:15:12.870
It has to be in place.
00:15:12.870 --> 00:15:15.456
It has to be that day structured all out.
00:15:15.456 --> 00:15:29.470
But when you get to the site, you sit down with the team, the the ops team, the site controllers, and you talk your way through that document because someone while sitting at that table is going to see something that you didn't see.
00:15:29.470 --> 00:15:36.018
The good thing about that is you can put a very nice, perfect JSA together.
00:15:36.018 --> 00:15:39.938
And it's not because our guys are going to say, well, you can't do that.
00:15:39.938 --> 00:15:44.150
You got to do this like, but you work all that out before you touch the tool.
00:15:44.317 --> 00:15:44.985
Yeah.
00:15:44.985 --> 00:15:53.159
So when, when a group creates a JSA or a team member goes through it, how long is that JSA good for?
00:15:54.119 --> 00:15:57.831
Well, it's usually only good for the for that task that day.
00:15:57.998 --> 00:16:00.333
Right.
00:15:57.998 --> 00:16:00.333
So because the environment may change.
00:16:00.333 --> 00:16:01.376
Yeah. The environment change.
00:16:01.376 --> 00:16:04.087
Kind of like our site inductions.
00:16:01.376 --> 00:16:04.087
How they're they're new every day.
00:16:04.087 --> 00:16:06.966
Our guys like, man, I just did a site induction yesterday.
00:16:06.966 --> 00:16:08.926
Well, the risks are different today, right?
00:16:08.926 --> 00:16:10.302
There's a different thing going on.
00:16:10.302 --> 00:16:12.846
There's a different activity and landfill going on.
00:16:12.846 --> 00:16:16.642
So yeah, it it, you know, it changes, right.
00:16:16.725 --> 00:16:23.023
Part of the reason that I have an issue with the perfection part is because I don't think there's that kind of flexibility and safety.
00:16:24.066 --> 00:16:25.567
There is an operations.
00:16:25.567 --> 00:16:32.950
There is and there is an, you know, dealing with your customers, your clients, your finances, all the people that you've got to deal with.
00:16:32.991 --> 00:16:36.787
Like it's easy sometimes to want to just comply.
00:16:37.037 --> 00:16:39.706
Right. And to get it, get it across the line.
00:16:39.706 --> 00:16:42.835
But there's gotta be somebody there that says, wait, wait, wait.
00:16:43.293 --> 00:16:45.044
One more thing. Yeah.
00:16:46.714 --> 00:16:53.428
And I'm just I'm thinking through this like the gears are turning here because there's always one more thing.
00:16:53.511 --> 00:16:56.514
Sure. Always sure.
00:16:56.764 --> 00:17:05.648
It's just what and when and is it right now, whether it's engineering, whether it's safety, whether it's production, whether it's welding, instrumentation.
00:17:05.691 --> 00:17:09.528
Like there's always one more thing.
00:17:10.820 --> 00:17:18.327
How do you how do we tie that in to not making it one more thing after the fact the next time.
00:17:18.578 --> 00:17:25.501
Well again you know, like that's a, that's a really good time to tag in like a lessons learned after a project.
00:17:25.544 --> 00:17:25.794
Yeah.
00:17:25.794 --> 00:17:37.138
Because man, if you can, if you can really look at yourself and your project and the whole project itself without emotion and just say, hey, what?
00:17:37.181 --> 00:17:38.432
What worked, what didn't.
00:17:38.432 --> 00:17:38.766
Yeah.
00:17:38.766 --> 00:17:39.641
Like that.
00:17:39.641 --> 00:17:42.810
That allows for that adjustment that you need.
00:17:42.853 --> 00:17:43.186
Right.
00:17:43.186 --> 00:17:46.981
So like a post review can be painful.
00:17:47.273 --> 00:17:48.483
Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:48.483 --> 00:17:55.615
But if you do it right, 90%, more than 80% of that stuff will be managed the next time, right?
00:17:55.656 --> 00:17:59.243
Because because you address it, you identify it, you documented it.
00:17:59.411 --> 00:18:06.042
And I'll say in my prior life pre Landfill Group, we did lessons learned as step one.
00:18:06.794 --> 00:18:10.213
Meaning how did we do and what could we have changed.
00:18:10.213 --> 00:18:11.964
Where did we not meet our goals.
00:18:11.964 --> 00:18:13.258
Where did we come up short.
00:18:13.258 --> 00:18:15.134
Maybe it was cost.
00:18:15.134 --> 00:18:18.680
Maybe it was engineering design timeline.
00:18:18.721 --> 00:18:20.641
Could be all the above.
00:18:20.641 --> 00:18:46.290
But we also took it one step further and we came back after the lessons learned and said, what can we do different to become better for our customers, for ourself, whether it's efficiency, whether it's design changes, how can we meet our customers expectations quicker, faster, better?
00:18:46.290 --> 00:18:51.587
And maybe how do we exceed their expectations without them even asking.
00:18:52.422 --> 00:18:54.090
You know the cleanliness brought into that.
00:18:54.090 --> 00:18:57.094
The serviceability brings in an aspect of that.
00:18:57.176 --> 00:19:00.763
You know this is this spec that they provide us, this is what they want.
00:19:01.390 --> 00:19:07.980
And we should be able to give that to the, our customers and then some.
00:19:07.980 --> 00:19:10.190
This is we know this is what you asked for.
00:19:10.190 --> 00:19:12.942
But hey here's here's what. We think.
00:19:12.942 --> 00:19:13.277
Yeah.
00:19:13.277 --> 00:19:15.612
Here's what we think could improve this even more.
00:19:15.612 --> 00:19:17.114
And here's why.
00:19:17.114 --> 00:19:23.996
So when you get into the lessons learned how hard is it not to take it personal?
00:19:23.996 --> 00:19:27.165
Like say maybe you had half a dozen bad welds.
00:19:27.374 --> 00:19:32.461
Like, how do you how do you manage the the people?
00:19:32.503 --> 00:19:40.929
Part of lesson learned experience because I know some people don't dance around it and they'll say, well, you know, we could have done a little better here.
00:19:40.929 --> 00:19:45.099
A lot of those lesson learned will really isolate those issues.
00:19:45.142 --> 00:19:46.894
Yeah. And then you got to talk about them.
00:19:46.894 --> 00:19:48.186
How do you guys do it?
00:19:48.186 --> 00:19:51.565
As long as everybody is working to the same goal.
00:19:52.691 --> 00:20:03.911
Then it eliminates the individual conversations and the taking it personal because you're just trying to make it better.
00:20:04.076 --> 00:20:04.368
Yeah.
00:20:04.368 --> 00:20:10.666
You're not attacking their whether their input, their design or anything.
00:20:10.709 --> 00:20:13.711
There could be their fabrication or welding abilities.
00:20:13.878 --> 00:20:30.645
Usually those folks are the ones who come in and say, hey, if we did it this way, we could we could save time or could be more efficient, or we could kill two birds with one stone and have a part of the design be dual purpose.
00:20:31.438 --> 00:20:34.316
Those are the team members who are doing it to come up with those.
00:20:34.316 --> 00:20:36.484
More so than than anybody. Right.
00:20:36.484 --> 00:20:45.160
As long as everybody's in the same boat, rowing in the same directions with the same mindset and the same goals, it'll eliminate a lot of that.
00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:50.582
And I won't say it's never an issue because you can get into two personality conflicts in a way.
00:20:50.582 --> 00:20:55.836
But as we're all working on this, we get very attached to what we do.
00:20:55.878 --> 00:20:57.338
And that's passion.
00:20:57.338 --> 00:20:58.214
Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:58.214 --> 00:21:06.765
But if somebody says, hey, I think we might be able to have we might be able to do this in a better way.
00:21:06.765 --> 00:21:09.351
The person should be like, okay, I'm in.
00:21:09.351 --> 00:21:12.354
Let's let's talk about it and let's understand why.
00:21:12.354 --> 00:21:17.358
As soon as they throw up resistance, then you have to question what's what's the goal?
00:21:17.358 --> 00:21:18.067
What's the problem?
00:21:18.067 --> 00:21:18.527
Yeah.
00:21:18.527 --> 00:21:19.403
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:19.403 --> 00:21:21.904
And how you accept it is also really important.
00:21:21.904 --> 00:21:22.489
To attract.
00:21:22.489 --> 00:21:25.325
If you're like this man it's real hard to take that in.
00:21:25.325 --> 00:21:28.869
It's hard to receive anything with a closed fist.
00:21:28.953 --> 00:21:33.500
You know, you're willing to listen and to receive that feedback.
00:21:34.292 --> 00:21:35.251
It's tough.
00:21:35.251 --> 00:21:36.336
Don't put baby in the corner.
00:21:36.336 --> 00:21:43.218
But that's a good segue because there's there's some I thought of this on the way here and I'm thinking, you know, perfection and I'm thinking effort.
00:21:43.509 --> 00:21:47.180
And I saw this a while back and it says zero.
00:21:47.388 --> 00:21:56.647
There's a list of ten items here that basically take zero talent, but are all important things that lead to success.
00:21:56.647 --> 00:21:58.900
And being on time is one of those.
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:05.449
Work ethic talks about willingness to learn, maybe willingness to get feedback.
00:22:05.490 --> 00:22:08.492
Passion is also on here. Humility. Yep.
00:22:08.826 --> 00:22:11.829
Whether you have a positive or negative energy level.
00:22:12.038 --> 00:22:13.248
That's huge. Huge.
00:22:13.248 --> 00:22:15.666
Are you easy to work with or are you difficult to work with?
00:22:15.666 --> 00:22:18.336
Like we should come back to that one.
00:22:15.666 --> 00:22:18.336
The positive attitude.
00:22:18.336 --> 00:22:21.964
Let's, let's let's keep going off on my numbers.
00:22:21.964 --> 00:22:24.675
Yeah, but you're on attitude.
00:22:24.675 --> 00:22:30.932
Being coachable, doing extra, being prepared and being a team player.
00:22:31.223 --> 00:22:32.893
All of these things.
00:22:32.893 --> 00:22:42.693
Anybody at any time can come into a workplace and do all it is, is just doing them and being willing, willing for that feedback.
00:22:42.736 --> 00:22:46.865
It's all of these things that it doesn't require a degree.
00:22:46.948 --> 00:22:48.950
It doesn't require anything.
00:22:48.950 --> 00:22:54.873
No. But this will make or break how you progress within an organization or a company.
00:22:54.998 --> 00:23:01.671
So in that positive attitude, there's nothing like a positive attitude to defeat things.
00:23:01.797 --> 00:23:02.463
Yeah.
00:23:02.463 --> 00:23:03.507
I just love it.
00:23:03.507 --> 00:23:05.634
Well, thanks for joining us on talk today.
00:23:05.634 --> 00:23:15.602
We've covered a plethora of different effort and what perfection and what's not perfection.
00:23:15.684 --> 00:23:19.480
And all in all, really appreciate time today, Mr.
00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:20.565
Sternberg.
00:23:20.565 --> 00:23:24.528
I hope you all are going to check us out on our next episode.
00:23:24.528 --> 00:23:25.612
It should be soon.
00:23:25.612 --> 00:23:26.738
Yeah. Appreciate it. Dan.
00:23:26.738 --> 00:23:29.324
Like, subscribe and share.
00:23:29.324 --> 00:23:30.450
And we appreciate you.
00:23:30.450 --> 00:23:32.827
Tune in for Trash Talk right next time.
00:00:00.333 --> 00:00:02.001
Do do do do do do.
00:00:02.001 --> 00:00:05.004
Welcome to Trash Talk.
00:00:05.671 --> 00:00:07.716
Welcome to Trash Talk.
00:00:07.716 --> 00:00:08.298
You win.
00:00:08.298 --> 00:00:11.301
We're talking trash today.
00:00:11.803 --> 00:00:12.637
I like that.
00:00:12.637 --> 00:00:15.515
So, Eric, welcome Trash Talk.
00:00:15.515 --> 00:00:18.018
My co partner here.
00:00:18.018 --> 00:00:19.602
Today's episode on Trash Talk.
00:00:19.602 --> 00:00:21.021
You guys, we've got some cool notes.
00:00:21.021 --> 00:00:23.189
For those of you who watch notes.
00:00:23.189 --> 00:00:25.899
Effort not perfection.
00:00:25.899 --> 00:00:27.443
What the heck does that mean?
00:00:27.443 --> 00:00:29.486
I guess it depends on what context you.
00:00:29.486 --> 00:00:31.071
You want to put it in? Okay.
00:00:31.071 --> 00:00:33.158
What does it mean to you personally?
00:00:31.071 --> 00:00:33.158
So effort.
00:00:33.158 --> 00:00:34.743
Not perfection.
00:00:34.743 --> 00:00:35.743
That's a tough one.
00:00:35.743 --> 00:00:39.246
I'm more on the perfectionist side of things.
00:00:39.621 --> 00:00:42.792
So I want everything to be as perfect as possible.
00:00:43.417 --> 00:00:48.631
Whether it's a little effort, a lot of effort, or how much effort it takes.
00:00:48.631 --> 00:00:58.767
You know, I also think about effort in itself is like you can try really hard to do the wrong thing.
00:00:58.767 --> 00:01:00.976
Does that make that, does that mean it's okay.
00:01:00.976 --> 00:01:03.313
I don't think it's okay if it's wrong.
00:01:03.313 --> 00:01:05.272
But you might not know what's wrong at the time.
00:01:05.272 --> 00:01:05.689
Yeah.
00:01:05.689 --> 00:01:15.115
Well and that goes into other layers of like support and you know like expectations and what the actual plan was.
00:01:15.325 --> 00:01:16.992
So yeah. Is failing okay.
00:01:16.992 --> 00:01:18.912
Of course I mean everybody fails.
00:01:18.912 --> 00:01:19.120
Yeah.
00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:22.956
But I think we're we're leaning and I'm just kind of guessing a little bit on this.
00:01:22.956 --> 00:01:39.140
But I think what we're leaning is this whole sometimes when people are trying to be perfect, it stalls them out like it's effort just freezes up on them because they don't know that, you know, they just they want it to be perfect or they don't want to do it.
00:01:39.140 --> 00:01:41.475
And there's, what do they call that?
00:01:41.475 --> 00:01:43.811
Like effort paralysis? It's something like that.
00:01:43.811 --> 00:01:46.438
It's a natural paralysis analysis.
00:01:46.438 --> 00:01:47.856
Paralysis analysis.
00:01:47.856 --> 00:01:52.736
No, I get where that would make effort, not perfection.
00:01:52.861 --> 00:02:01.287
One of the things that I think about is that that concept of like 80, 80% and 20%.
00:02:01.287 --> 00:02:07.293
So you're working on a project, you're coming in, you're getting close to the end of the project.
00:02:07.334 --> 00:02:11.256
You get what we would call 80% of that project managed.
00:02:11.463 --> 00:02:14.467
There's that concept of, well, we got 80.
00:02:14.508 --> 00:02:16.009
Don't worry about the other 20.
00:02:16.009 --> 00:02:22.850
Let's get this thing rolling, and then we'll get into that 20% to bring it to 100.
00:02:22.850 --> 00:02:24.644
I got a problem with that.
00:02:24.644 --> 00:02:26.020
I just don't like it.
00:02:26.020 --> 00:02:32.526
Like, I don't know what 20% isn't important when I think about this.
00:02:32.568 --> 00:02:47.167
I think, yeah, like perfection isn't always going to happen, but you shouldn't assume that 20% of that or so isn't necessary or maybe not critical, right?
00:02:47.167 --> 00:02:48.501
I guess there's the argument there.
00:02:48.501 --> 00:02:51.587
Well, maybe it's not critical to getting things ruled.
00:02:51.587 --> 00:02:53.715
So it probably like if I think of.
00:02:53.715 --> 00:02:59.179
Something that would relate to ABS, let's call it shipping a product out the door.
00:02:59.219 --> 00:02:59.554
Yeah.
00:02:59.554 --> 00:03:02.514
Something tangible, something we both relate to.
00:03:02.514 --> 00:03:07.478
And it's, you know, it's what is 80%, what is 100%.
00:03:07.478 --> 00:03:10.772
And I think your 80% might be different than my 80%.
00:03:10.814 --> 00:03:12.567
Sure. And vice versa.
00:03:12.567 --> 00:03:18.364
But if you look at it to where I mean, that's why we establish milestones and we have goals.
00:03:18.364 --> 00:03:26.080
So we don't have any differences of what 100% is or what the goal is.
00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:41.471
But if you look at two and that just had this conversation with my team last week or the week before last that says, hey, let's get it to 80% and move and take action, because the last 20% of getting it to 100%.
00:03:42.263 --> 00:03:42.805
You're right.
00:03:42.805 --> 00:03:46.643
We could we could sit here in that 20% could take so much time.
00:03:46.643 --> 00:03:50.187
It may not be worth the effort to do it.
00:03:50.270 --> 00:03:53.483
Every scenario is going to be different depending on what it is.
00:03:53.733 --> 00:03:56.985
Safety is going to be different than us building.
00:03:57.236 --> 00:04:01.657
You know, I'll say maybe a small side project in the shop.
00:04:01.866 --> 00:04:02.407
Sure.
00:04:02.407 --> 00:04:07.247
But if we have a project that we're delivering for a customer, we know what 100% is.
00:04:07.455 --> 00:04:10.415
That means bill materials there.
00:04:10.415 --> 00:04:11.417
It's assembled.
00:04:11.417 --> 00:04:12.418
It's tested.
00:04:12.418 --> 00:04:19.091
It's, you know, ship loses its touched up painted decals like it's ready to go out the door.
00:04:19.091 --> 00:04:22.678
We have that list to say exactly what 100% is.
00:04:23.053 --> 00:04:25.180
We wouldn't want to get it to 80%.
00:04:25.180 --> 00:04:29.935
And let's say, oh, let's just we'll do the rest on site to meet the timeline.
00:04:29.978 --> 00:04:32.605
Or let your client. Do it or let your client do it.
00:04:32.605 --> 00:04:41.363
Yeah, but how often do we get into the point of, hey, let's meet this timeline and we'll do the rest on site?
00:04:41.363 --> 00:04:44.324
And I know what that what that means for us.
00:04:44.951 --> 00:04:48.036
It's our cost of getting that done.
00:04:48.036 --> 00:04:56.336
That 20% done just goes up probably ten x at a minimum of doing it in the field versus doing it in our facility.
00:04:56.795 --> 00:04:59.423
Well I think timelines are the Achilles here.
00:05:00.550 --> 00:05:04.512
Timelines really kind of decide whether or not it's going to finish.
00:05:04.553 --> 00:05:04.928
Yeah.
00:05:04.928 --> 00:05:11.060
From an operations perspective we want it at surprise surprise 100%.
00:05:11.144 --> 00:05:11.685
Right.
00:05:11.685 --> 00:05:17.024
And I'll tell you why we wanted it 100% is because we're going to end up having to go back and fix things.
00:05:17.108 --> 00:05:20.360
We're going to have to end up going back and rescheduling things.
00:05:20.444 --> 00:05:21.612
Which is even more money.
00:05:21.612 --> 00:05:24.324
Which even more money, more time.
00:05:24.324 --> 00:05:27.744
You know, we're lucky at the Landfill Group, we can pick from different departments.
00:05:27.869 --> 00:05:30.829
We can pull from those and argue with each other and get it done.
00:05:30.829 --> 00:05:37.502
But if you were truly my client, like, you were like, I didn't know you from Adam, and I ordered some equipment from you.
00:05:37.502 --> 00:05:39.463
I expect it to be 100%. Yeah.
00:05:39.463 --> 00:05:41.007
And so do you. Yeah.
00:05:41.007 --> 00:05:43.343
So where is this effort?
00:05:43.343 --> 00:05:44.552
Not perfection.
00:05:44.552 --> 00:05:46.637
Sit in that bowl.
00:05:46.637 --> 00:05:48.473
Like, where does it sit?
00:05:48.473 --> 00:05:49.973
It's hard. It's hard.
00:05:49.973 --> 00:05:52.976
This is a hard one to argue about. It is.
00:05:53.310 --> 00:05:56.146
Because it really depends on what the goal is.
00:05:56.146 --> 00:05:58.483
You come from the engineering side of the house.
00:05:58.483 --> 00:06:00.108
We're focused on perfection.
00:06:00.108 --> 00:06:02.235
And it being 100% correct.
00:06:02.235 --> 00:06:02.653
Right.
00:06:02.653 --> 00:06:09.951
Well, what that gets you is this sometimes this analysis paralysis to where you're getting it so far.
00:06:10.202 --> 00:06:12.538
And then it needs to go to the next step.
00:06:12.538 --> 00:06:20.338
And it may not make it to the step in the time it needs to make it there so somebody else can carry that on, which then creates a delay.
00:06:20.379 --> 00:06:23.048
Drives the project management side crazy.
00:06:23.048 --> 00:06:24.841
You know, I have this conversation.
00:06:24.841 --> 00:06:27.845
It was shortly after I first came on to the Landfill Group.
00:06:28.221 --> 00:06:32.725
And it was a conversation of hey I want you to do something different.
00:06:32.725 --> 00:06:34.435
I want you to try something different.
00:06:34.435 --> 00:06:36.562
We need to get it to 80%.
00:06:36.562 --> 00:06:37.687
And then I want you to move.
00:06:37.687 --> 00:06:40.565
Now I know it's not going to be 100%.
00:06:40.565 --> 00:06:41.942
And that's okay.
00:06:41.942 --> 00:06:43.235
I want you to get it to 80.
00:06:43.235 --> 00:06:48.031
And I want you to move because I was getting to a point where I'm still learning.
00:06:48.074 --> 00:06:49.324
I'm still learning the product.
00:06:49.324 --> 00:06:57.458
The process is the people, and I'm wanting it to be perfect, but yet I maybe don't exactly know what perfect or 100% is yet.
00:06:57.500 --> 00:06:59.209
Yeah, and it was getting stuck.
00:06:59.209 --> 00:07:04.714
That was an eye opener for me, and I've shared that with many of the employees at ABS in that same manner.
00:07:04.757 --> 00:07:08.177
It's like, okay, we get it close, we can get it to 80%.
00:07:08.177 --> 00:07:10.971
And I want you to take some sort of action.
00:07:10.971 --> 00:07:15.142
Doesn't mean you have to stop working on it or truly hand it off, but I want you to take it.
00:07:15.184 --> 00:07:16.351
Take action.
00:07:16.351 --> 00:07:24.694
And that seems to have helped things progress through station to station within the ABS team.
00:07:24.735 --> 00:07:31.324
If I think about some of this though, is I think I was on the drive here, I was thinking about perfection.
00:07:31.992 --> 00:07:33.577
What's perfection mean?
00:07:33.577 --> 00:07:44.713
It's it can be defined by the person, or it can be defined by something that was set for you, such as a goal or a standard or a set of rules.
00:07:44.713 --> 00:07:51.512
But I also look at perfection as how does it relate to failure and is perfection.
00:07:51.553 --> 00:08:01.730
You know, it's like I consider myself a perfectionist and I'm looking at details in maybe a different way than most because I want it to be as perfect as I can give it.
00:08:02.230 --> 00:08:06.569
Now, is there a more stringent perfectionist out there?
00:08:06.569 --> 00:08:07.944
Probably.
00:08:07.944 --> 00:08:10.572
But is there less? Absolutely.
00:08:10.572 --> 00:08:16.245
And then there's some interpretation from what's perfection to you versus what's perfection to me.
00:08:16.495 --> 00:08:19.122
But I also look at it and I was thinking of this.
00:08:19.122 --> 00:08:22.000
It's like fear of failing.
00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:23.002
Yeah.
00:08:23.002 --> 00:08:31.968
That's where that's where it hits me because I'm like, where and when did I think that perfection was was the.
00:08:32.010 --> 00:08:33.678
Goal was less.
00:08:33.678 --> 00:08:35.431
There isn't a failure in perfection.
00:08:35.431 --> 00:08:36.224
That's right.
00:08:36.224 --> 00:08:41.979
It's like, I want this to be the best that I can possibly get it, because I don't want to fail.
00:08:39.936 --> 00:08:41.979
But to spank, right?
00:08:41.979 --> 00:08:46.107
You fail, you analyze, you adjust, you perfect.
00:08:46.317 --> 00:08:47.985
You fail again.
00:08:47.985 --> 00:08:48.945
You analyze.
00:08:48.945 --> 00:08:49.861
You adjust.
00:08:49.861 --> 00:08:50.738
You perfect.
00:08:50.738 --> 00:08:52.990
100%. It's okay to make mistakes.
00:08:52.990 --> 00:08:55.326
I encourage people to make mistakes because it's not.
00:08:55.326 --> 00:08:57.870
We don't keep track of the number of mistakes you make.
00:08:57.870 --> 00:09:02.832
We keep track of how many times we get back up and how many times we restart.
00:09:02.832 --> 00:09:04.460
Because now we have more information.
00:09:04.460 --> 00:09:07.712
We have more data from making that mistake than we originally had.
00:09:07.964 --> 00:09:09.840
We're in a better starting place.
00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:11.716
We're going to learn from it.
00:09:11.716 --> 00:09:13.260
We're either going to learn or we're going to win.
00:09:13.260 --> 00:09:14.803
There's no failure, right?
00:09:14.803 --> 00:09:16.806
It doesn't exist. Right.
00:09:16.806 --> 00:09:19.600
And that's one thing that's really helped.
00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:24.647
It's like if we want to be better and it's okay to fail.
00:09:25.188 --> 00:09:25.523
Yeah.
00:09:25.523 --> 00:09:27.399
I mean, it paralyzes people, right?
00:09:27.399 --> 00:09:33.072
Like, I remember when I was younger, I know I failed a lot, but it paralyzed me.
00:09:33.072 --> 00:09:34.948
Like, I had a real problem with that.
00:09:34.948 --> 00:09:36.701
Then I got really good at failing.
00:09:36.701 --> 00:09:38.369
Which you should never say. But.
00:09:38.369 --> 00:09:40.370
But managing a failure is important.
00:09:40.370 --> 00:09:45.167
Like the once you've realized that wall that you hit.
00:09:45.375 --> 00:09:57.388
Like, you can pout about it for a week if you want, but if you really quickly look at it and say, man, I found it just done this, or I really could use some help.
00:09:57.388 --> 00:09:58.221
Yeah.
00:09:58.221 --> 00:10:01.350
You know, because most of us want to fix everything ourselves.
00:10:01.350 --> 00:10:05.645
Well, some of us aren't that qualified and we may need some help.
00:10:05.730 --> 00:10:08.691
So did you ever have anybody in your life?
00:10:08.691 --> 00:10:11.693
Say that it's okay to fail? I think so.
00:10:11.693 --> 00:10:13.446
Yeah. I'm pretty sure my mom did.
00:10:13.446 --> 00:10:14.488
Yeah, yeah.
00:10:14.488 --> 00:10:17.365
Because she didn't want me paralyzed, man.
00:10:14.488 --> 00:10:17.365
She wanted me to do it.
00:10:17.365 --> 00:10:21.995
You know, I mean, that's why when I was young, I lived on a farm, so I was kind of blessed that way.
00:10:21.995 --> 00:10:24.123
You fail all the time on a farm.
00:10:24.123 --> 00:10:26.082
You managed some cows or some horses.
00:10:26.082 --> 00:10:26.958
You're going to fail.
00:10:26.958 --> 00:10:29.461
Yeah. Like, they may not want to do what you want to do.
00:10:29.461 --> 00:10:33.548
And that may not just be it, but, you know, there's lots of ways to fail.
00:10:33.591 --> 00:10:34.674
To me.
00:10:34.674 --> 00:10:37.886
You almost got to do it a lot, or you almost got to get through it a lot.
00:10:37.970 --> 00:10:41.557
Yeah, hopefully there's small fails like, you know, not critical.
00:10:41.599 --> 00:10:42.600
Nobody gets hurt.
00:10:42.600 --> 00:10:43.683
Kind of stuff.
00:10:43.683 --> 00:10:46.645
When somebody gets hurt, it changes completely.
00:10:46.687 --> 00:10:47.062
You learn.
00:10:47.062 --> 00:10:49.774
Faster, you learn active a lot faster.
00:10:49.774 --> 00:10:50.774
And and it.
00:10:50.774 --> 00:10:51.817
And it hurts.
00:10:51.817 --> 00:10:54.986
When we look and prepare for risk mitigation.
00:10:55.111 --> 00:10:56.279
I'll give you the scenario.
00:10:56.279 --> 00:10:59.325
We have a crew at a site this week.
00:10:59.533 --> 00:10:59.908
Okay.
00:10:59.908 --> 00:11:03.828
That's performing hot work at one of our at one of our sites.
00:11:04.663 --> 00:11:09.335
And they walked through their job scope and we've got welders there.
00:11:09.335 --> 00:11:14.590
We have assemblers there, we have electrical technicians there.
00:11:14.715 --> 00:11:17.759
And they walk through their job scope at the site.
00:11:17.802 --> 00:11:24.350
The site's going to be shut down for a majority of the work, and then there's some that's not going to be shut down.
00:11:24.517 --> 00:11:26.976
Or does it require a shutdown?
00:11:26.976 --> 00:11:29.980
So we walk through JSAs.
00:11:30.188 --> 00:11:31.899
That's where I wanted to go.
00:11:31.899 --> 00:11:35.403
And I know we're totally getting away from the perfection.
00:11:35.443 --> 00:11:36.821
Hey. That's right. Versus effort.
00:11:36.821 --> 00:11:37.738
But when we talk.
00:11:37.738 --> 00:11:45.620
About perfection and and effort, I think this both apply in this scenario for JSAs.
00:11:45.788 --> 00:11:48.666
So the effort is the JSA part, right.
00:11:48.666 --> 00:11:52.378
That that is, is basically delivering perfection.
00:11:54.046 --> 00:11:54.797
Pretty close.
00:11:54.797 --> 00:11:57.133
It's it's it's as close as I can think of.
00:11:57.133 --> 00:12:03.264
In this step is often missed or mitigated because they're like, oh, we don't need to do this.
00:12:03.764 --> 00:12:32.375
And it could be a small task or it could be an extravagant task, but we've got a hot site or a shutdown beside this just been shut down and we spent the greater part of a week or better, probably closer to two of just doing the JSAs within each person of the ABS team, who has a particular scope of work to mitigate risk and to prepare for the job on site.
00:12:32.418 --> 00:12:48.392
Because it's important, because we've just had process gas running through the entire plant, all to ensure we have perfection, which means everybody's walking home at the end of the day, as good or as better shape than when they started the day.
00:12:48.725 --> 00:12:51.729
So if you could walk us through what a JSA is.
00:12:52.270 --> 00:12:54.440
Sure this would be awesome.
00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:58.527
Okay, so this is pretty cool because JSA is a job safety analysis.
00:12:58.527 --> 00:13:10.121
They're wonderful, and they are essentially writing down what you're going to do and assessing the risk of everything that you do in that process.
00:13:10.121 --> 00:13:14.000
So I'm going to do this task.
00:13:15.001 --> 00:13:17.171
I'm going to need these tools.
00:13:17.171 --> 00:13:19.590
I'm going to need this monitor.
00:13:19.590 --> 00:13:21.591
I'm going to do these steps.
00:13:21.591 --> 00:13:27.889
And when you line them out step by step, what you're going to do, your couple of things happen.
00:13:28.014 --> 00:13:29.725
One, you get organized.
00:13:29.725 --> 00:13:31.851
Yeah it's pretty pretty intense.
00:13:31.851 --> 00:13:38.192
But two you find things that you didn't think of that are essentially a risk for you.
00:13:38.192 --> 00:13:40.653
So you find these things and oh, okay.
00:13:40.653 --> 00:13:42.238
Well we didn't see that.
00:13:42.238 --> 00:13:45.658
So we go in and we readjust that JSA because you can change it.
00:13:45.698 --> 00:13:50.745
And, you know, they say you can do a JSA on it on a napkin if you do it accurately enough.
00:13:51.080 --> 00:13:54.166
So it doesn't really matter how you put it on the paper.
00:13:54.416 --> 00:13:57.168
What matters is that what they're doing is true.
00:13:57.168 --> 00:13:59.587
Those are the true steps that they're taking.
00:13:59.587 --> 00:14:05.134
They're not cutting any corners on that because they've assessed each step for the risk associated with it.
00:14:05.134 --> 00:14:09.889
So just one person is not going to walk through the JSA, right?
00:14:09.974 --> 00:14:15.354
It's the worst thing in the world for you to do a JSA and to give it to one of your people.
00:14:15.437 --> 00:14:15.812
Yeah.
00:14:15.812 --> 00:14:22.610
Like they need to be engaged in the JSA, and they need to be writing down what it is they're going to do.
00:14:22.653 --> 00:14:25.947
If you do it and just say, well, I did step three and four. Yep.
00:14:25.990 --> 00:14:27.825
He wants me to do what?
00:14:27.825 --> 00:14:30.451
Like I'm not doing that.
00:14:27.825 --> 00:14:30.451
Like that's not going to work.
00:14:30.451 --> 00:14:32.705
And we've seen it not work.
00:14:30.451 --> 00:14:32.705
We've done it ourselves.
00:14:32.705 --> 00:14:36.542
And we we like to fail occasionally and so we could learn.
00:14:37.418 --> 00:14:38.918
Well, that's how you learn. That's how we learn.
00:14:38.918 --> 00:14:41.922
I mean. Yeah, but our guys have found.
00:14:42.423 --> 00:14:51.557
And like, I've been trying really hard to to like, not say safety but maybe say efficiency because like some people would, would prefer efficiency.
00:14:51.807 --> 00:14:54.809
And I'm, I'm talking about the people doing the job over safety.
00:14:55.059 --> 00:14:56.644
Oh look I got to get this done.
00:14:56.644 --> 00:14:59.480
This is an efficient way to do it. 123.
00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:00.732
This is the steps.
00:15:00.732 --> 00:15:01.859
That's fantastic.
00:15:01.859 --> 00:15:03.818
And the teams learn a lot from that.
00:15:03.818 --> 00:15:06.779
But there's a real good chance that they're going to miss something.
00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:09.158
And if you put it together, they're for sure.
00:15:09.158 --> 00:15:11.534
Yeah, absolutely.
00:15:09.158 --> 00:15:11.534
So it has to be practical.
00:15:11.534 --> 00:15:12.870
It has to be in place.
00:15:12.870 --> 00:15:15.456
It has to be that day structured all out.
00:15:15.456 --> 00:15:29.470
But when you get to the site, you sit down with the team, the the ops team, the site controllers, and you talk your way through that document because someone while sitting at that table is going to see something that you didn't see.
00:15:29.470 --> 00:15:36.018
The good thing about that is you can put a very nice, perfect JSA together.
00:15:36.018 --> 00:15:39.938
And it's not because our guys are going to say, well, you can't do that.
00:15:39.938 --> 00:15:44.150
You got to do this like, but you work all that out before you touch the tool.
00:15:44.317 --> 00:15:44.985
Yeah.
00:15:44.985 --> 00:15:53.159
So when, when a group creates a JSA or a team member goes through it, how long is that JSA good for?
00:15:54.119 --> 00:15:57.831
Well, it's usually only good for the for that task that day.
00:15:57.998 --> 00:16:00.333
Right.
00:15:57.998 --> 00:16:00.333
So because the environment may change.
00:16:00.333 --> 00:16:01.376
Yeah. The environment change.
00:16:01.376 --> 00:16:04.087
Kind of like our site inductions.
00:16:01.376 --> 00:16:04.087
How they're they're new every day.
00:16:04.087 --> 00:16:06.966
Our guys like, man, I just did a site induction yesterday.
00:16:06.966 --> 00:16:08.926
Well, the risks are different today, right?
00:16:08.926 --> 00:16:10.302
There's a different thing going on.
00:16:10.302 --> 00:16:12.846
There's a different activity and landfill going on.
00:16:12.846 --> 00:16:16.642
So yeah, it it, you know, it changes, right.
00:16:16.725 --> 00:16:23.023
Part of the reason that I have an issue with the perfection part is because I don't think there's that kind of flexibility and safety.
00:16:24.066 --> 00:16:25.567
There is an operations.
00:16:25.567 --> 00:16:32.950
There is and there is an, you know, dealing with your customers, your clients, your finances, all the people that you've got to deal with.
00:16:32.991 --> 00:16:36.787
Like it's easy sometimes to want to just comply.
00:16:37.037 --> 00:16:39.706
Right. And to get it, get it across the line.
00:16:39.706 --> 00:16:42.835
But there's gotta be somebody there that says, wait, wait, wait.
00:16:43.293 --> 00:16:45.044
One more thing. Yeah.
00:16:46.714 --> 00:16:53.428
And I'm just I'm thinking through this like the gears are turning here because there's always one more thing.
00:16:53.511 --> 00:16:56.514
Sure. Always sure.
00:16:56.764 --> 00:17:05.648
It's just what and when and is it right now, whether it's engineering, whether it's safety, whether it's production, whether it's welding, instrumentation.
00:17:05.691 --> 00:17:09.528
Like there's always one more thing.
00:17:10.820 --> 00:17:18.327
How do you how do we tie that in to not making it one more thing after the fact the next time.
00:17:18.578 --> 00:17:25.501
Well again you know, like that's a, that's a really good time to tag in like a lessons learned after a project.
00:17:25.544 --> 00:17:25.794
Yeah.
00:17:25.794 --> 00:17:37.138
Because man, if you can, if you can really look at yourself and your project and the whole project itself without emotion and just say, hey, what?
00:17:37.181 --> 00:17:38.432
What worked, what didn't.
00:17:38.432 --> 00:17:38.766
Yeah.
00:17:38.766 --> 00:17:39.641
Like that.
00:17:39.641 --> 00:17:42.810
That allows for that adjustment that you need.
00:17:42.853 --> 00:17:43.186
Right.
00:17:43.186 --> 00:17:46.981
So like a post review can be painful.
00:17:47.273 --> 00:17:48.483
Yeah. Yeah.
00:17:48.483 --> 00:17:55.615
But if you do it right, 90%, more than 80% of that stuff will be managed the next time, right?
00:17:55.656 --> 00:17:59.243
Because because you address it, you identify it, you documented it.
00:17:59.411 --> 00:18:06.042
And I'll say in my prior life pre Landfill Group, we did lessons learned as step one.
00:18:06.794 --> 00:18:10.213
Meaning how did we do and what could we have changed.
00:18:10.213 --> 00:18:11.964
Where did we not meet our goals.
00:18:11.964 --> 00:18:13.258
Where did we come up short.
00:18:13.258 --> 00:18:15.134
Maybe it was cost.
00:18:15.134 --> 00:18:18.680
Maybe it was engineering design timeline.
00:18:18.721 --> 00:18:20.641
Could be all the above.
00:18:20.641 --> 00:18:46.290
But we also took it one step further and we came back after the lessons learned and said, what can we do different to become better for our customers, for ourself, whether it's efficiency, whether it's design changes, how can we meet our customers expectations quicker, faster, better?
00:18:46.290 --> 00:18:51.587
And maybe how do we exceed their expectations without them even asking.
00:18:52.422 --> 00:18:54.090
You know the cleanliness brought into that.
00:18:54.090 --> 00:18:57.094
The serviceability brings in an aspect of that.
00:18:57.176 --> 00:19:00.763
You know this is this spec that they provide us, this is what they want.
00:19:01.390 --> 00:19:07.980
And we should be able to give that to the, our customers and then some.
00:19:07.980 --> 00:19:10.190
This is we know this is what you asked for.
00:19:10.190 --> 00:19:12.942
But hey here's here's what. We think.
00:19:12.942 --> 00:19:13.277
Yeah.
00:19:13.277 --> 00:19:15.612
Here's what we think could improve this even more.
00:19:15.612 --> 00:19:17.114
And here's why.
00:19:17.114 --> 00:19:23.996
So when you get into the lessons learned how hard is it not to take it personal?
00:19:23.996 --> 00:19:27.165
Like say maybe you had half a dozen bad welds.
00:19:27.374 --> 00:19:32.461
Like, how do you how do you manage the the people?
00:19:32.503 --> 00:19:40.929
Part of lesson learned experience because I know some people don't dance around it and they'll say, well, you know, we could have done a little better here.
00:19:40.929 --> 00:19:45.099
A lot of those lesson learned will really isolate those issues.
00:19:45.142 --> 00:19:46.894
Yeah. And then you got to talk about them.
00:19:46.894 --> 00:19:48.186
How do you guys do it?
00:19:48.186 --> 00:19:51.565
As long as everybody is working to the same goal.
00:19:52.691 --> 00:20:03.911
Then it eliminates the individual conversations and the taking it personal because you're just trying to make it better.
00:20:04.076 --> 00:20:04.368
Yeah.
00:20:04.368 --> 00:20:10.666
You're not attacking their whether their input, their design or anything.
00:20:10.709 --> 00:20:13.711
There could be their fabrication or welding abilities.
00:20:13.878 --> 00:20:30.645
Usually those folks are the ones who come in and say, hey, if we did it this way, we could we could save time or could be more efficient, or we could kill two birds with one stone and have a part of the design be dual purpose.
00:20:31.438 --> 00:20:34.316
Those are the team members who are doing it to come up with those.
00:20:34.316 --> 00:20:36.484
More so than than anybody. Right.
00:20:36.484 --> 00:20:45.160
As long as everybody's in the same boat, rowing in the same directions with the same mindset and the same goals, it'll eliminate a lot of that.
00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:50.582
And I won't say it's never an issue because you can get into two personality conflicts in a way.
00:20:50.582 --> 00:20:55.836
But as we're all working on this, we get very attached to what we do.
00:20:55.878 --> 00:20:57.338
And that's passion.
00:20:57.338 --> 00:20:58.214
Yeah. Yeah.
00:20:58.214 --> 00:21:06.765
But if somebody says, hey, I think we might be able to have we might be able to do this in a better way.
00:21:06.765 --> 00:21:09.351
The person should be like, okay, I'm in.
00:21:09.351 --> 00:21:12.354
Let's let's talk about it and let's understand why.
00:21:12.354 --> 00:21:17.358
As soon as they throw up resistance, then you have to question what's what's the goal?
00:21:17.358 --> 00:21:18.067
What's the problem?
00:21:18.067 --> 00:21:18.527
Yeah.
00:21:18.527 --> 00:21:19.403
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:19.403 --> 00:21:21.904
And how you accept it is also really important.
00:21:21.904 --> 00:21:22.489
To attract.
00:21:22.489 --> 00:21:25.325
If you're like this man it's real hard to take that in.
00:21:25.325 --> 00:21:28.869
It's hard to receive anything with a closed fist.
00:21:28.953 --> 00:21:33.500
You know, you're willing to listen and to receive that feedback.
00:21:34.292 --> 00:21:35.251
It's tough.
00:21:35.251 --> 00:21:36.336
Don't put baby in the corner.
00:21:36.336 --> 00:21:43.218
But that's a good segue because there's there's some I thought of this on the way here and I'm thinking, you know, perfection and I'm thinking effort.
00:21:43.509 --> 00:21:47.180
And I saw this a while back and it says zero.
00:21:47.388 --> 00:21:56.647
There's a list of ten items here that basically take zero talent, but are all important things that lead to success.
00:21:56.647 --> 00:21:58.900
And being on time is one of those.
00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:05.449
Work ethic talks about willingness to learn, maybe willingness to get feedback.
00:22:05.490 --> 00:22:08.492
Passion is also on here. Humility. Yep.
00:22:08.826 --> 00:22:11.829
Whether you have a positive or negative energy level.
00:22:12.038 --> 00:22:13.248
That's huge. Huge.
00:22:13.248 --> 00:22:15.666
Are you easy to work with or are you difficult to work with?
00:22:15.666 --> 00:22:18.336
Like we should come back to that one.
00:22:15.666 --> 00:22:18.336
The positive attitude.
00:22:18.336 --> 00:22:21.964
Let's, let's let's keep going off on my numbers.
00:22:21.964 --> 00:22:24.675
Yeah, but you're on attitude.
00:22:24.675 --> 00:22:30.932
Being coachable, doing extra, being prepared and being a team player.
00:22:31.223 --> 00:22:32.893
All of these things.
00:22:32.893 --> 00:22:42.693
Anybody at any time can come into a workplace and do all it is, is just doing them and being willing, willing for that feedback.
00:22:42.736 --> 00:22:46.865
It's all of these things that it doesn't require a degree.
00:22:46.948 --> 00:22:48.950
It doesn't require anything.
00:22:48.950 --> 00:22:54.873
No. But this will make or break how you progress within an organization or a company.
00:22:54.998 --> 00:23:01.671
So in that positive attitude, there's nothing like a positive attitude to defeat things.
00:23:01.797 --> 00:23:02.463
Yeah.
00:23:02.463 --> 00:23:03.507
I just love it.
00:23:03.507 --> 00:23:05.634
Well, thanks for joining us on talk today.
00:23:05.634 --> 00:23:15.602
We've covered a plethora of different effort and what perfection and what's not perfection.
00:23:15.684 --> 00:23:19.480
And all in all, really appreciate time today, Mr.
00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:20.565
Sternberg.
00:23:20.565 --> 00:23:24.528
I hope you all are going to check us out on our next episode.
00:23:24.528 --> 00:23:25.612
It should be soon.
00:23:25.612 --> 00:23:26.738
Yeah. Appreciate it. Dan.
00:23:26.738 --> 00:23:29.324
Like, subscribe and share.
00:23:29.324 --> 00:23:30.450
And we appreciate you.
00:23:30.450 --> 00:23:32.827
Tune in for Trash Talk right next time.
