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TP Jason Leshowitz: All right.
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Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Transformative Principal podcast.
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This is Mike Caldwell, your host, still subbing for Jethro Jones, and today's guest is Jason, Jason Lesiewicz.
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Jason, welcome to the podcast.
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I appreciate you having me here.
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I'm looking forward to the conversation.
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All the way from New Jersey, um, author of The Rejection Proof Educator.
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There's a lot in there.
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I can't wait to dive into that.
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Um, a lot of years in education.
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Um, Jason, what are you currently doing?
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Currently, I'm an- What kind of work are you doing right now?
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Sure.
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I'm an arts administrator.
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I, I supervise 65 teachers in one of the largest school districts in New Jersey.
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Uh, uh, you know, supervising music, theater, art, dance, film, television, custodial works, everything under the sun.
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No, I'm kidding about, about the last part.
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But I, I do a lot of, uh, uh, I wear a lot of hats.
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Um, I also about, I'd say about a year and a half ago, I, you know, decided to, uh, do a side business, which has turned into more than a side business, called Rejection Proof Career, where I help educators, creatives,
and leaders basically translate their skills to communicate, uh, the, the real v- the value that they may have that would be related to education-adjacent roles and/or just pivoting up onto, uh, higher leadership.
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So basically pivoting up through leadership or out of education into education adjec- adjacent roles.
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And, uh, I help them w- do interview coaching, I do resume revamps, but more, more it's like a, a coach, uh, a career coach.
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And, uh, so I do that after my work hours and, but it's slowly turning into more than that, you know, basically 'cause I got a book picked up by Amplify Publishers called Rejection Proof Career.
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Um, you know, which is, uh, uh, it's The Rejection Proof Educator, I should say, how to translate your experience into better pay and bigger opportunities, which we can talk about a little later.
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But it's all related to, you know, my experience, uh, and also, you know, what I do as a, uh, a career coach with, uh, for educators and leaders.
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Excellent.
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Yeah.
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So before we go there, so you're, you're in a, looks like a very large, um Public school- Mm-hmm … environment, and you're working specifically with teachers that are teaching on more of the creative music art side, and you're supervising them.
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So are you on the administrative team- I am … the leadership team in, in Clifton Public Schools?
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I'm one of actually, uh, 14, uh, supervisors in our school district of 11,000 students and about 73 administrators.
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There's about, you know, like I said, 14 supervisors, and I'm the supervisor of visual and performing arts for our district.
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And I, you know, I d- re- report- Okay … right to the assistant superintendent of curriculum.
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But I've been on many- Okay.
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Are you also teaching?
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No, I don't, I, I don't teach anymore Are you still teaching?
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Uh, I mean, I teach privately.
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I, I, you know, uh, teach some violin, viola, and cello students, but I don't think you wanna hear about that in your podcast.
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But, uh- You never know … I, I do, uh, if you need virtual violin lessons, I can do, give you those.
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Uh, but, um, no, my teaching, I've been in this job for 13 years, and I've been in education for over 30, and, uh, in the s- same school district since 2001.
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And, uh, so that's basically my little backstory.
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And you know what, what kinda, uh, led me into the Rejection Proof side business is because, you know, I, I'm living…
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I, I, I wanted someone, uh, I wished I'd had back in my early days to guide me.
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You know, I, I went, uh, you know, when I was a school leader, I went for administrative jobs and got rejected over seven years, uh, until I found the position I loved.
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And, uh, I found my- You know, now I look back, I was doing the same thing over and over and over, saying the same, you know, answers that were more like, um, you know, resume bullets instead of, you know, what I, what impact I had.
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Uh, and, uh, you know, it was, it was like, uh, I, I started talking to other, uh, teacher leaders, teachers and, uh, leaders, uh, you know, uh, you know, administrators, and I felt like there was a need out there.
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You know, they were, they were getting dejected from their rejections and, uh, over and over and over.
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So, you know, it started out really small.
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I, I just really, I, I just did, uh, arts people and teachers, but then assistant principals, a lot of assistant principals I, I ran into that were trying to get into the principal role.
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Uh, I'm sure you, you know that way back when, the str- the struggle is real for assistant principals trying to break into the, uh, principal role.
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And you might be saying, "And what does an arts guy know about, you know, assistant principals trying to break into the principal role?" I've set, I sit on many different
hiring… I've sat and continue to sit on many different hiring panels throughout the years, and, uh, I know what works and what doesn't work, and I give them frameworks.
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I give them, uh, you know, I don't s- tell them to memorize these answers, but we workshop, uh, different versions of their answers and, uh… And you know, I find, Mike, uh, may- maybe you found
this w- when you were a principal interviewing vice principal candidates, that the, the, the answer that trips them up the most is the first one, which is tell me a little- bit about yourself, right?
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It's like people just go in circles, they ramble for 10 minutes, or they come up with a 20-second answer that tells the hiring panel nothing.
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And, uh, you know, you'd be surprised at how much work just goes into that one question, but first impressions mean everything, right?
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So, uh, that's a li- a little bit about what I do now in my roles, plural.
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Yeah.
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Did you, uh… Yeah, and I can totally relate it, what, what you're saying and thinking about the interviews and, and things like that, that those first questions
or first couple questions, sometimes those first couple questions are like, "Okay, this interview's over," and you're just gonna go through the motions anyway.
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Yeah.
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But, uh,
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how you start matters for sure.
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So if you're listening, um, this is important.
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I'm curious, did you start this, um, kind of looking at within education, kinda helping the, whether it's teacher get into administration or teacher get into a different role or maybe the assistant principal getting into the principal roles?
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'Cause there's a whole other separate conversation I'd- I wanna get into in addition to that is we also have this- What feels like
sometimes this desire, this mass exodus of people that are wanting to spin out of education and find a place in industry somewhere else.
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Um, and so I'm curious first and foremost, like, where did you start it?
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And are you s- And, and then also are you also focused on the latter part of that where people are trying to get out of education?
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Without … Yeah.
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'Cause one of my roles, goals is- Right … to keep people in to educate, in, in education.
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But I see there's probably a huge value in what you're doing too, is helping people maybe spin out of education.
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So we might be on competing forces here- Yeah … but I'm curious nonetheless.
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No, your question is spot on and I understand where it's coming from.
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And I have a, I, I have a, a pretty detailed answer for you because, uh, where, where I started and where I am are, are two very different places.
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I, I st- I started out thinking, uh, that I would just be helping out, you know, arts teachers and regular teachers and maybe a VP here or there, uh, you know, interview better, get their resume looking better so they get their foot in the door.
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But then, I mean, I, I, I started … I, I knew no- I don't know about you, man, but like two years ago I had no presence.
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I, I did nothing on LinkedIn.
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I mean, I'm on Facebook.
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I'm an old guy on Facebook, you know, older guy.
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I shouldn't say old guy, I'm 52.
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Uh, but I'm on Facebook, uh, I'm on, um, uh, Instagram, but I, nothing to do with, uh, LinkedIn.
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And then I was like, "You know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna put a couple posts on LinkedIn about what I, what I'm doing now," thinking I'd get more teachers interested in p- pivoting up to leadership roles or, uh, vice principals and principals.
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But what I found was I was getting my inbox flooded with what you just s- you know, referenced which is burnout, burnout, and did I mention burnout?
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Uh, and people wanting out of education which is, you know, sad, scary, but true.
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You know, I, it, it's, uh … You know, I love my job but many people, uh, unfortunately don't anymore in education.
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It's not because, uh, of their bosses per se.
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It's not because of, um, the role or the job itself.
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It's because, and stop me if you've heard this, they feel like the behaviors have changed dramatically, uh, s- in the last three to four to five years.
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They feel like there's more responsibilities and less time to do that.
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They, their, their mental health is, is, uh, not as strong in the job they're doing.
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They feel like the parents don't, uh, respect and support them anymore.
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And I was hearing all that.
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I'm hearing all that and I was like, "But what do I know about- Education-adjacent positions.
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I, I know education, but I started doing research, and, uh, you know, I found out that there's a ton of different education-adjacent positions
that, you know, burnt out, and not only burnt out teachers, teachers who wanna, who feel like they want more out of their careers can go into.
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Uh, and I can tell you about some of them.
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You know, like learning and development, tha- that's one.
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You know, ed tech, huge.
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Uh, nonprofit executive roles.
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Uh, there's instructional design, client success.
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You know, there's so many different avenues to go towards, but what I found was that these people were applying to those roles but not getting
traction because they were still speaking in teacher speak or principal speak versus, I don't wanna say corporate speak, but education-adjacent speak.
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And that's where a lot of my, uh, coaching then started pivoting into.
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So I was living the pivoted dream, pivoting dream as these people were pivoting
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too.
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Like we're, we're, uh, we're, we're all doing it together.
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Uh, so, you know, I helped them, you know, change their bullets on their resume.
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And I don't wanna say change.
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I should say, um, kind of shape their bullets, uh, uh, their resumes to more reflect, uh, uh, the, the roles they're going for.
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And, uh, and then we started talking about, you know, how do, uh, you know… The, the just the corporate speak is just very different from the education speak, and
we- the, that's where- that w- that was what a large part of my, uh, my clientel- my clientele was, particularly from, I'd say, October through February of the year.
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You know, once the school year began, ay, ay, ay, you know, uh, this is … I can't take it.
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And then now from, like March through August, I feel like I've… You know, it's switched.
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It's more leaders trying to pivot upwards.
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But there's ton- don't get me wrong.
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There are tons of educators out there who need to hear what, what, what it's like outside education.
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And I like to s- uh, say that I'm, I'm not t- telling or, or teaching teachers how to get out of education.
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I'm, I'm just teaching them how to grow in a different way, you know?
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Uh, and, uh, uh, they're never leaving teaching.
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They're just teaching, uh, through a different avenue or through a different vehicle.
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And I'm here for any, any avenue.
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Yeah.
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Uh, uh, you know, if, if someone wants to stay in education and go upwards, I can h- you know, I've helped with that and, uh, the other route as well.
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Uh, I do find, and maybe you've found this too in your interviews, that unfortunately and sadly there are a lot more teachers wanting to leave the field than stay in it these last few years, especially those teaching 10 years or more.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Yeah, your, um, work reminds me of, um… I haven't done a lot of this work, but I had a, uh, colleague connect me with a current teacher coach, um, in my own state, and he's, he's been looking to try to get into industry.
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And so probably similar work that you're doing with, with others is, you know, we're just sh- back and forth sharing his resume and re-crafting.
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You know, you can Take pretty much any part of your resume, but if you, if you s- if you just go based on your current context as a teacher, coach,
or administrator, and you just build it, that when, when that ed tech, tech company gets it, they're gonna say, "Well, this is a, this is a teacher.
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I'm not looking for a teacher.
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I'm looking for a customer, you know, support specialist.
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I'm looking for, you know, a s- a internal sales, you know, a lead or whatever else." So what, what I m- you know, I don't know if this was the right advice.
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I haven't dug as far as, as into it as you have.
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But I was like, start with the job that you're trying to go in, you know, go towards, and then work backwards.
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How do y- how do you recraft, um, your- Mm-hmm … messaging?
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Not lie.
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No.
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It's never about lying or exaggerating.
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Not make stuff up.
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But like, look at- Just reframing it.
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Reframing it … look at your experiences, yeah, and say, "How, how can that experience or what I've already done, um, translate into this role?" Right?
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And, and then be able to, um, yeah, message it appropriately.
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And I think that's what maybe what you mean.
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I think you, you said, um, most often educators maybe are under-translated, not under-qualified.
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Is that kinda what you mean?
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Yeah.
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It's, it's not the qualification.
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The translation is huge.
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It's how you translate those qualifications.
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And I wanna give you a quick example based on what you were just saying.
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You know, I worked with a teacher, uh, who had applied to more than, uh, you know, 40 corporate learning and development jobs, right?
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And, like, 40 ti- 40 times she rejected.
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N- not even a foot in the door.
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And, uh, never made it past the phone screen.
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And so, uh, we changed how, you know, the experience was coming through.
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Uh, we didn't exaggerate.
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We didn't, uh, you know, uh, make up stuff or anything.
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Uh, for example, on her resume, uh, she originally had, uh, created lesson plans and supported teacher training.
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Uh, you know, a bullet that many teachers have.
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But like you said, corporate jobs, they're not looking for lesson planning.
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So we reframed it as, you know, designed and facilitated professional learning systems that improved instructional consistency across multiple teams.
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Uh, another example would be a bullet that said, "Worked with struggling students and parents." Well, an edtech company doesn't really care about that, uh, if I'm being blunt.
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Uh, so we reframed it as, and it's the same concept just reframed differently, "Managed high-stake stakeholder communication while coordinating individual intervention planning across multidisciplinary teams." Same work, right?
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But completely different interpretation.
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And even her interview opener, you know, changed a little bit.
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Instead of, "I'm passionate about helping students"- Which all good teachers are.
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We shifted towards, "I specialize in improving learning experiences through training, communication, and performance support." And within two weeks, you know, she had multiple interviews, and within two months, multiple offers because
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Now, I, I, that … I'm simplifying it and making it sound easy.
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I, I don't wanna give the impression to your audience that all they have to do is change a couple bullets and they're gonna get jobs, you know?
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Because this, these, uh, ed tech and, uh, instructional design and learning development po- positions are so, um, competitive nowadays that I, I just spoke to a client,
uh, literally yesterday who said, and this is not an exaggeration, since February she's applied to 375 jobs on indeed.com and LinkedIn, and she's gotten zero responses.
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Now, I looked at her resume, and she had, you know, she … It was dec- it wasn't like the, uh, you know, I did, I s- I'm passionate about teaching, I, I do lesson planning.
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But it wasn't like what we talked either, uh, what we just talked about, and we, we changed some things, and we're, I'm hoping for, that she has a different impact.
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But this is what the typical teacher who is, uh, experiencing, that they're, when they wanna, wanna get out of education, it's not like it's just I apply five jobs, I'll get something, 'cause it's, it's so heavily competitive right now.
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But, you know, to, to get that extra step up, whether you're an administrator, a teacher, teacher leader, uh, you know, it, it is good to translate your experience into
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And also, I find a lot of teachers particularly, maybe not so much assistant principals and principals, but they negate their, uh, their experience as well.
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I'm j- I, I'm just a teacher.
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I'm just a vice principal.
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I'm just a building leader, uh, what.
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But you're not.
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You're doing so many different things on a leadership level, uh, that translates into these other positions.
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It's just my job to kinda help bring it out
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Yeah, absolutely.
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Um, well, and I think the additional challenge in, in this is not just the, you know, hurdle of retranslating your qualifications, skill set ex- and experiences.
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The reality is, is outside of education, the job market- Mm-hmm.
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You're right … is also very tough- Mm-hmm
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um, right now.
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You know, there's tons of layoffs.
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Um, ed tech is, you know, an ar- well, all of it is, is no exception.
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So even with the best resume, um, connected to the, to the right, you know, potential opportunities, may not result in a job because there's not a lot of jobs out there right now that… And maybe there is.
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I haven't r- been on the job hunt for a while, but, um, but it, but it's a tough market out there.
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I mean, I know many, many college graduates that are, you know, looking for- Yep.
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Absolutely … anything they can find at this point, uh, because there's not a lot out there.
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Um, so I'm curious, um, you know, what other…
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I'll sh- I'll share, you know, like, what other, like, beyond the resume and, and the, the translations of those skills and experiences, what other
advice you give people to, uh, whether it's grow into a position within education or s- pivot out of education into oth- other, other positions.
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I have my own ideas or, or experiences in that.
00:18:36.191 --> 00:18:45.829
I'm, I'm curious on what are the things that you maybe would add to, uh- To, uh, to, to a, a person's- Toolbox.
00:18:46.459 --> 00:18:51.109
Yeah … repertoire to help… Yeah, toolbox to help them kind of move up or, you know- Yeah.
00:18:51.139 --> 00:19:05.479
The biggest- I'd say one of the biggest mistakes I find that educators make when, you know, trying to move into, uh, higher level roles,
whether it's within or outside of education, is they, uh, you know, describe responsibilities, uh, instead of demonstrating leadership thinking.
00:19:05.479 --> 00:19:09.419
So, you know, principals actually, you know, see this constantly.
00:19:09.419 --> 00:19:14.369
Uh, you know, you post an AP opening, uh, somebody applies who you know is strong, right?
00:19:14.809 --> 00:19:28.509
And, and their resume says, "Collaborated with colleagues, served on committees, supported student achievement," and you immediately think
to yourself, um, you know, you're underselling yourself, which is what I was talking about earlier with this, just negating your experience.
00:19:28.569 --> 00:19:30.129
Because you know what they actually did.
00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:38.019
Uh, you know, they identified performance gaps, they re- redesigned systems, they trained teams, they influenced outcomes.
00:19:38.439 --> 00:19:44.569
But if people can't communicate their work at the le- at that level, you know, hiring teams never fully see it.
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:59.699
So one of the biggest shifts that I teach is helping people move from, you know, "Here's what I handled" to "Here's the problem I, I, I identified, the decision I made, and the impact that followed."
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:06.959
Because, you know, executive level hiring is really about evaluating how somebody thinks under complexity, right?
00:20:07.149 --> 00:20:09.939
And not just the tasks, the tasks that they completed.
00:20:10.099 --> 00:20:19.489
And honestly, you know, once principals understand that distinction, you know, they start developing their own people differently too, which is something I know we haven't talked about yet, but maybe, maybe we may want to.
00:20:19.489 --> 00:20:28.379
You know, how to prevent the teachers from burning out, you know, uh, you know, uh, from, uh, you know, your, finding your best teachers are, as you said, spinning out.
00:20:28.579 --> 00:20:38.489
Uh, it's not a t- I don't know about you, I have… I, I, I, uh, supervise 65, 70 teachers and, uh, I'm cons- I'm consistently surprised.
00:20:38.669 --> 00:20:49.729
And I don't have many teachers leave, but the ones that do are the ones that I'm, like, sometimes surprised about versus the ones that should leave, they stay on.
00:20:50.219 --> 00:20:50.559
You know?
00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:58.459
So, like, how can we help prevent, uh, you know, uh, these high level educators from leaving the field?
00:20:58.689 --> 00:21:02.169
And, um, you know, that's something we could, you know, talk about too
00:21:05.173 --> 00:21:05.333
Yeah.
00:21:06.563 --> 00:21:14.963
Couple things I would add, um, maybe to the conversation, um, that I believe to be true in my own personal journey.
00:21:15.023 --> 00:21:20.513
Um, and I think it makes a difference when I, when I'm hiring.
00:21:20.933 --> 00:21:34.777
And coincidentally, you know, as a- Yeah … I'm a former high school principal, um, been in education a long time spun out still in education, but now I'm running a software company.
00:21:34.837 --> 00:21:36.707
So very, very different.
00:21:36.767 --> 00:21:36.807
I bet.
00:21:36.817 --> 00:21:59.417
Um, but I didn't wait for someone to tell me, you know, give me that opportunity, and this leads to my first thing is, if it's something you want
to do and you're g- don't wait for a job to start doing it or don't wait for someone to hand you kind of the keys to a, to, to the door- Mm-hmm
00:21:59.427 --> 00:22:00.147
to start.
00:22:00.807 --> 00:22:17.397
Um, I think if you wanna go into ed tech or you wanna go into consulting or you wanna do whatever it is you wanna do, start doing it before it, before it becomes your full-time job, before it becomes an opportunity.
00:22:17.417 --> 00:22:34.837
There's, there's, there's, there's always space for something, and I, yeah, I know how busy we all are, but, um, whether it's a little bit, you know, a couple
nights a, a week on, in the evenings or in the summer, you start chipping away at some real experiences in a direction that you want to go ev- eventually.
00:22:35.357 --> 00:22:51.357
That makes a, the path a lot shorter than going from where I am today, and I have this dream of being, you know, this, in this other role, you know, in the future, but I'm not doing anything to move in that direction.
00:22:51.397 --> 00:22:55.637
And it's more than just resumes and more than just preparing for the interview.
00:22:55.637 --> 00:23:01.747
It's ac- actually what have you done proactively to move towards that?
00:23:01.747 --> 00:23:03.677
You'll really distinguish yourself with that.
00:23:03.837 --> 00:23:06.787
You know, uh, whether it's getting some additional training or… Right.
00:23:06.907 --> 00:23:07.187
Yeah.
00:23:07.687 --> 00:23:17.557
Because otherwise it's like, yeah, I want that, you know, customer sales success job at this ed tech company, but what have I done that's remotely close?
00:23:17.557 --> 00:23:22.577
I can maybe translate some of these skills but, you know, are there some other things that I can do in, in between?
00:23:23.307 --> 00:23:38.647
Um, so I think that's important, too, is I think sometimes we dream about where we wanna go, but we don't take the first step on- Mm-hmm … on the initiative other than maybe just recrafting our resume and throwing out some, some, some applications.
00:23:38.657 --> 00:23:43.207
Like, I think there's, there's things that you can do while you're waiting for that opportunity.
00:23:43.207 --> 00:23:44.947
I, I agree wholeheartedly with that.
00:23:44.947 --> 00:23:45.857
Um- I really do.
00:23:46.077 --> 00:23:49.347
What is the, what is the quote?
00:23:49.407 --> 00:23:57.767
Uh, luck is when, um, preparedness meets opportunity, I think is, is something like that.
00:23:57.767 --> 00:24:00.987
I think I probably butchered it, but I think that's very true.
00:24:00.987 --> 00:24:02.607
It's like, yeah, I got lucky on this job.
00:24:02.607 --> 00:24:04.887
Well, actually, I've been working- Mm-hmm
00:24:04.887 --> 00:24:10.308
to prepare for it- And the opportunity finally presented itself, but I was ready for it, and I took it.
00:24:10.308 --> 00:24:14.221
And you know, Mike, uh, I just want to tell you one other thing that kind of leads into that.
00:24:14.251 --> 00:24:15.091
Uh, I, I agree.
00:24:15.241 --> 00:24:19.091
Obviously, the, the more you can prepare your skill sets for the future job, obviously the better.
00:24:19.411 --> 00:24:24.901
But I find that, you know, I work with a lot of clients who are surprised they're not getting any, uh, bites.
00:24:24.901 --> 00:24:32.171
But then I say, you know, for educators, a- and I alluded to this earlier, you know, LinkedIn is so out there.
00:24:32.181 --> 00:24:38.801
It's like, you know, there's not many teachers who that, the first social media option of choice is LinkedIn.
00:24:39.061 --> 00:24:42.331
But it is, it really-- And I don't work for LinkedIn.
00:24:42.741 --> 00:24:51.741
I have no affiliation , but it is so essential when you're looking at these education adjacent roles to put yourself out there.
00:24:51.741 --> 00:25:01.181
We, you know, we, we talk about if you're doing these, these, uh, side, side things which you hope to make, uh, into a full-time, uh, uh, job, you should, you should post about it on LinkedIn.
00:25:01.361 --> 00:25:10.571
You should, uh, follow people who do what you want to do and, um, network with them and, uh, sh- exchange ideas.
00:25:10.811 --> 00:25:15.841
And you'd be surprised how much, how many opportunities, uh, open up that way.
00:25:15.841 --> 00:25:24.481
Now, you're not-- you might not get the job, but the door opens if you're surrounding yourself with people who are already doing that job.
00:25:24.701 --> 00:25:35.551
And if you're surrounding yourself with third and fourth and fifth grade teachers, or you're, you know, at, at the high school level, ninth through 12th grade teachers constantly, you're not gonna really get your foot into the ed tech world.
00:25:35.831 --> 00:25:58.231
But you could do that by obviously looking at YouTube tutorial- tutorials and everything under the sun, but then also going on LinkedIn or Handshake or any of these sites and, uh, you know, befr- uh,
connecting with people already in the field, uh, and then posting and, uh, you know, sending private messages and see if they, uh, you know, ha- have any insights and share your insights with them.
00:25:58.571 --> 00:26:03.581
And, uh, that really does, believe it or not, open up a lot of doors I've found with, with the, the clients I coach.
00:26:07.487 --> 00:26:18.057
Jason, I don't disagree with you, but I'm … Uh, any of my colleagues, friends that are listening, um, know that for some reason- Yeah … I just hate LinkedIn.
00:26:18.057 --> 00:26:18.707
Totally.
00:26:18.707 --> 00:26:26.377
And I know it's a necessary thing, but I just- It's very … Some people think it's very fake- I, I just- … it's very, uh … You know, everybody's, like, just excited right about.
00:26:26.377 --> 00:26:28.027
Uh, and w- but I get it.
00:26:28.037 --> 00:26:31.397
But, you know, uh, a- and if it's not for you, it's not for you.
00:26:31.447 --> 00:26:34.617
I'm just telling you- It's like if somebody- … what works for me, uh, you know, that I found, you know?
00:26:36.047 --> 00:26:36.457
Yeah.
00:26:36.957 --> 00:26:39.747
No, I'm be- I'm being, you know, kinda tongue in cheek here.
00:26:39.747 --> 00:26:42.827
But I just, like, really, really … You know, I, I, I agree with you.
00:26:42.827 --> 00:26:44.007
It is important.
00:26:44.087 --> 00:26:49.077
Uh, it's an important place to, uh, network, connect, um- Yeah.
00:26:49.077 --> 00:26:49.477
Try gonna shake them.
00:26:49.477 --> 00:26:49.657
And,
00:26:51.877 --> 00:26:54.637
uh- They really like that … and, and, a- and learn and all, all those ty- ty- types of things.
00:26:54.637 --> 00:26:57.757
But it's just- I'll tell you one other thing, Mike- … yeah, what I struggle with is, like, you know, the- … uh, because, uh, you know, you and I may
00:26:57.977 --> 00:27:04.747
I might be around the, the same age, and I know for, uh, I'd say 35, 40 and up, uh, Facebook is, is more, uh, palatable, let's say.
00:27:05.047 --> 00:27:07.987
Uh, the, uh, I'll, I'll, I'll take it one step further.
00:27:08.187 --> 00:27:15.897
There are so many, uh, Facebook groups out there, uh, for instructional designers, for ed tech software developers.
00:27:16.237 --> 00:27:17.687
Get yourself in those groups.
00:27:17.957 --> 00:27:20.697
Post there, you know, share ideas.
00:27:20.727 --> 00:27:24.797
And th- that's another place you can learn if LinkedIn isn't your cup of tea, which I totally get.
00:27:24.997 --> 00:27:33.977
But, you know, you … Social media sometimes gets, uh, you know, a lot of the time, and rightfully so, gets, uh, you know, made out to be the, uh, the villain, and, uh, you know, a- and I get why.
00:27:34.037 --> 00:27:38.537
Uh, but there's, there's a lot of, uh … You know, it can help your career if used properly.
00:27:38.987 --> 00:27:42.277
Um, you know, so just putting that out there.
00:27:42.277 --> 00:27:42.597
Yeah.
00:27:42.697 --> 00:27:45.627
Abs- no, and I, I, and I, I, I agree with you.
00:27:45.727 --> 00:27:53.957
Um, but it … Yeah, I just had to- … say something about LinkedIn 'cause I've just have, have had my own struggles, um, with- Mm-hmm … with, with the platform itself.
00:27:54.437 --> 00:27:59.147
So is your book now published, or you … Is it still in, in the queue?
00:27:59.157 --> 00:28:00.567
Where, where are you at on the rejection spectrum?
00:28:00.567 --> 00:28:01.117
Thanks for asking.
00:28:01.157 --> 00:28:03.187
Um, I am in the final edits phase.
00:28:03.307 --> 00:28:10.707
Uh, the book is due to come out, uh, in, uh, June, July, uh, this summer, and then, uh, through the publisher, Amplify Publishing.
00:28:11.057 --> 00:28:17.377
And then, uh, by August, I'm hoping it'll be in Amazon, and, uh, Barnes & Nobles and other bookstores near you.
00:28:17.697 --> 00:28:19.647
Uh, so that's the plan.
00:28:20.127 --> 00:28:23.257
And, uh, yeah, uh, the … I'm, I'm really excited about it
00:28:25.545 --> 00:28:56.819
And so f- someone that's look- looking to pick that up once it's, what's, it's published, you know, if they're looking, if they're looking at either, you know, an opportunity to grow, you know, vertically in their career and, and do some things
within the education space or spin out and find something, this is a book that they can use as a guide to kinda help, help them, um Whether it's rewrite and retranslate their skills on their resume, prepare better for a, uh, an interview.
00:28:57.229 --> 00:29:03.239
Um, what are other, some tangible takeaways that they're gonna get from your book that will really help them in one of those three ways?
00:29:03.239 --> 00:29:06.559
Well, it- it's, it has actually, uh, it's about 200 pages in it.
00:29:06.589 --> 00:29:08.319
It, it, uh, it's very readable.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:10.129
You don't have to read it from one to 200.
00:29:10.179 --> 00:29:15.969
Uh, you can do it section by section depending on what phase of your, uh, you know, career search, your, your, your job search you're at.
00:29:16.339 --> 00:29:19.279
But I, I, um, I cover all those areas.
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:22.769
It's not just for educators who are trying to pivot out of education.
00:29:23.009 --> 00:29:27.649
It's not just for, uh, teacher leaders who wanna become assistant principals.
00:29:27.859 --> 00:29:32.449
It's, it's for, uh, it's different chapters for different types of, um, uh, pivots.
00:29:32.979 --> 00:29:41.279
And but every type of pivot- pivot has the same thing in common, which is translating what they do currently into the career they want to do.
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:44.119
So we go over, there's- there's- there's worksheets in there.
00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:45.039
There's frameworks.
00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:47.469
There's, uh, real world scenarios.
00:29:47.469 --> 00:29:54.819
There's case studies, uh, uh, telling you, uh, what people I've worked with have done to get the success in, in their pivot.
00:29:55.159 --> 00:29:58.889
Um, and, uh, I know, Mike, this is the dirty word, LinkedIn.
00:29:58.889 --> 00:30:03.579
It does have a whole section on LinkedIn, uh, how to use it properly if you're scared of it or hate it.
00:30:04.029 --> 00:30:06.419
You know, how you can- I'll get your book.
00:30:06.429 --> 00:30:08.009
I'll get your book just to read that chapter.
00:30:08.009 --> 00:30:08.479
There's a whole chapter on there.
00:30:08.539 --> 00:30:08.859
Yeah.
00:30:08.859 --> 00:30:09.442
It could be solid help.
00:30:09.442 --> 00:30:15.389
Um, there's also chapters on, you know, once… This is something that a lot, not a lot of books I've read talk about and which is why I wanted to include it.
00:30:15.549 --> 00:30:21.169
All right, now that you've got the job, uh, oh my God, I, I've never done this, uh, type of thing.
00:30:21.179 --> 00:30:22.239
Fake it till you make it, right?
00:30:22.489 --> 00:30:26.499
But, uh, what, what, what ne- what, what next after that, you know?
00:30:26.749 --> 00:30:32.189
How, how do you present yourself to your staff in an education adjacent role?
00:30:32.199 --> 00:30:36.479
How do you, uh, how do you lead, uh, uh, from a different level?
00:30:36.649 --> 00:30:38.629
And that's, that's a whole chapter.
00:30:39.239 --> 00:30:52.879
But, you know, it starts off with what we talked about, just, uh, how to reframe your, the, your, your resume and then what, what
you should be thinking about, how you can be coached in interviews when you're applying to pivot either upwards or out of education.
00:30:53.229 --> 00:30:54.959
So it's a very practical book.
00:30:55.189 --> 00:31:00.039
It's not a, uh, it's not, it's n- there's nothing that you're gonna bl- it's gonna blow your mind.
00:31:00.049 --> 00:31:02.619
I, I, I write in very, like I talk.
00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:04.829
I think I'm not just splitting my own boat here.
00:31:04.829 --> 00:31:05.819
Many people have told me that.
00:31:05.819 --> 00:31:10.109
It's, it's very, if you, you could see how I write if you, if you go on, uh, LinkedIn.
00:31:11.089 --> 00:31:15.389
If you go on LinkedIn, I, uh, Jason Leshowitz, L-E-S-H-O-W-I-T-Z.
00:31:15.389 --> 00:31:19.279
A lot of things I have in the book, uh, started off at, as posts there.
00:31:19.539 --> 00:31:26.989
Uh, and I also have an Instagram page, @rejectionproofcareer, which a lot, also a lot of things I cover in the book are on there as well.
00:31:26.989 --> 00:31:33.149
And, uh, if you like that writing style, if you like what I'm saying, I'd love you to pick up the book, uh, when it comes out this summer.
00:31:35.777 --> 00:31:44.487
Yeah, we'll definitely put a link, um, to your LinkedIn and wherever el- your website and anything else in the show notes so people can access and reach out to you.
00:31:44.487 --> 00:31:46.977
Um- And Mike, I'm glad you brought up the website 'cause I forgot to mention that.
00:31:46.977 --> 00:31:47.507
Silly me.
00:31:47.707 --> 00:31:50.127
Uh, uh, rejectionproofcareer.com.
00:31:50.157 --> 00:31:53.437
I, I have many free resources on there.
00:31:53.647 --> 00:31:57.737
Uh, worksheets, w- worksheets, frameworks, and everything else under the sun.
00:31:58.017 --> 00:32:04.657
Uh, so yeah, that, that… A- again, if you're pivoting out or upwards in education, there's something for everyone on there.
00:32:04.937 --> 00:32:13.017
Uh, and that, and there's also an early access sign-up list to get on the book to get the, uh, first chapters of the book if you'd like to, uh, go to the site.
00:32:13.017 --> 00:32:14.197
So thank you for bringing that up, Mike.
00:32:16.737 --> 00:32:17.137
Awesome.
00:32:17.777 --> 00:32:18.067
All right.
00:32:18.077 --> 00:32:20.857
Sounds like great, great resource for, for people.
00:32:20.857 --> 00:32:28.287
I hope the people that are listening are looking at it as a way to stay in education but to grow in their professional career.
00:32:28.287 --> 00:32:40.297
We need more great people leading, um, and being part of, of, of, of our education landscape across the US, and I know it's tough work, um, but there's a lot of support out there for you.
00:32:40.317 --> 00:32:43.777
Um, and sounds like this is another great opportunity.
00:32:43.777 --> 00:32:52.067
So, um, as we close up today, Jason, I always ask the, the last question, um, of the, of the show.
00:32:52.627 --> 00:32:54.837
What does it mean to you to be a transformative leader?
00:32:56.367 --> 00:33:22.877
What it means to me is giving, uh, educators the, not only the skillsets but the confidence and motivation to really, uh, do what they love and love what they do, and
sometimes that mean, may, may mean to s- continue in education a- and get into a leadership role, and sometimes that may mean to, uh, lead other people outside of education.
00:33:23.127 --> 00:33:31.737
But I obviously would love to give them the tools to do that more confidently and competently, and that's what it means to me to be a transformational leader
00:33:34.429 --> 00:33:34.809
Awesome.
00:33:35.309 --> 00:33:35.959
Thanks, Jason.
00:33:35.959 --> 00:33:45.909
Again, we'll put, uh, your information in the show notes for anybody that would like to reach out to you directly through LinkedIn, which is just a great platform, and, uh, or directly to your website.
00:33:45.909 --> 00:33:47.659
So Jason, thanks for being part of this.
00:33:47.659 --> 00:33:53.629
I know we had some technology challenges at the beginning- Thank you … but we pers- you persevered, made it happen anyway.
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:59.459
And, uh, for those of you listening, thanks for listening to another episode of Transformative Principal podcast.
00:33:59.479 --> 00:34:00.229
We'll catch you at the next one.
00:34:00.229 --> 00:34:00.579
Thank you.
00:34:00.639 --> 00:34:01.339
Thanks again, Jason.
NOTE
This file was generated by Descript
00:00:11.847 --> 00:00:11.967
TP Jason Leshowitz: All right.
00:00:11.987 --> 00:00:17.287
Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Transformative Principal podcast.
00:00:17.287 --> 00:00:25.857
This is Mike Caldwell, your host, still subbing for Jethro Jones, and today's guest is Jason, Jason Lesiewicz.
00:00:26.017 --> 00:00:27.997
Jason, welcome to the podcast.
00:00:27.997 --> 00:00:28.057
I appreciate you having me here.
00:00:28.057 --> 00:00:28.117
I'm looking forward to the conversation.
00:00:32.253 --> 00:00:38.203
All the way from New Jersey, um, author of The Rejection Proof Educator.
00:00:38.693 --> 00:00:39.433
There's a lot in there.
00:00:39.433 --> 00:00:40.883
I can't wait to dive into that.
00:00:40.923 --> 00:00:43.173
Um, a lot of years in education.
00:00:43.213 --> 00:00:45.573
Um, Jason, what are you currently doing?
00:00:46.013 --> 00:00:48.113
Currently, I'm an- What kind of work are you doing right now?
00:00:48.113 --> 00:00:48.373
Sure.
00:00:48.783 --> 00:00:50.193
I'm an arts administrator.
00:00:50.193 --> 00:00:54.213
I, I supervise 65 teachers in one of the largest school districts in New Jersey.
00:00:55.023 --> 00:01:00.133
Uh, uh, you know, supervising music, theater, art, dance, film, television, custodial works, everything under the sun.
00:01:00.133 --> 00:01:01.703
No, I'm kidding about, about the last part.
00:01:01.923 --> 00:01:05.003
But I, I do a lot of, uh, uh, I wear a lot of hats.
00:01:05.273 --> 00:01:36.453
Um, I also about, I'd say about a year and a half ago, I, you know, decided to, uh, do a side business, which has turned into more than a side business, called Rejection Proof Career, where I help educators, creatives,
and leaders basically translate their skills to communicate, uh, the, the real v- the value that they may have that would be related to education-adjacent roles and/or just pivoting up onto, uh, higher leadership.
00:01:36.483 --> 00:01:42.713
So basically pivoting up through leadership or out of education into education adjec- adjacent roles.
00:01:43.133 --> 00:01:50.743
And, uh, I help them w- do interview coaching, I do resume revamps, but more, more it's like a, a coach, uh, a career coach.
00:01:50.963 --> 00:02:02.943
And, uh, so I do that after my work hours and, but it's slowly turning into more than that, you know, basically 'cause I got a book picked up by Amplify Publishers called Rejection Proof Career.
00:02:03.293 --> 00:02:13.933
Um, you know, which is, uh, uh, it's The Rejection Proof Educator, I should say, how to translate your experience into better pay and bigger opportunities, which we can talk about a little later.
00:02:13.933 --> 00:02:22.903
But it's all related to, you know, my experience, uh, and also, you know, what I do as a, uh, a career coach with, uh, for educators and leaders.
00:02:26.461 --> 00:02:26.871
Excellent.
00:02:27.071 --> 00:02:27.451
Yeah.
00:02:27.981 --> 00:02:44.503
So before we go there, so you're, you're in a, looks like a very large, um Public school- Mm-hmm … environment, and you're working specifically with teachers that are teaching on more of the creative music art side, and you're supervising them.
00:02:44.513 --> 00:02:47.813
So are you on the administrative team- I am … the leadership team in, in Clifton Public Schools?
00:02:47.813 --> 00:02:57.883
I'm one of actually, uh, 14, uh, supervisors in our school district of 11,000 students and about 73 administrators.
00:02:57.933 --> 00:03:03.383
There's about, you know, like I said, 14 supervisors, and I'm the supervisor of visual and performing arts for our district.
00:03:03.943 --> 00:03:08.663
And I, you know, I d- re- report- Okay … right to the assistant superintendent of curriculum.
00:03:09.413 --> 00:03:11.563
But I've been on many- Okay.
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Are you also teaching?
00:03:12.933 --> 00:03:15.053
No, I don't, I, I don't teach anymore Are you still teaching?
00:03:15.053 --> 00:03:15.913
Uh, I mean, I teach privately.
00:03:15.973 --> 00:03:20.823
I, I, you know, uh, teach some violin, viola, and cello students, but I don't think you wanna hear about that in your podcast.
00:03:21.893 --> 00:03:26.803
But, uh- You never know … I, I do, uh, if you need virtual violin lessons, I can do, give you those.
00:03:27.043 --> 00:03:36.753
Uh, but, um, no, my teaching, I've been in this job for 13 years, and I've been in education for over 30, and, uh, in the s- same school district since 2001.
00:03:37.183 --> 00:03:41.513
And, uh, so that's basically my little backstory.
00:03:41.753 --> 00:03:48.823
And you know what, what kinda, uh, led me into the Rejection Proof side business is because, you know, I, I'm living…
00:03:49.133 --> 00:03:55.763
I, I, I wanted someone, uh, I wished I'd had back in my early days to guide me.
00:03:56.053 --> 00:04:05.913
You know, I, I went, uh, you know, when I was a school leader, I went for administrative jobs and got rejected over seven years, uh, until I found the position I loved.
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And, uh, I found my- You know, now I look back, I was doing the same thing over and over and over, saying the same, you know, answers that were more like, um, you know, resume bullets instead of, you know, what I, what impact I had.
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Uh, and, uh, you know, it was, it was like, uh, I, I started talking to other, uh, teacher leaders, teachers and, uh, leaders, uh, you know, uh, you know, administrators, and I felt like there was a need out there.
00:04:32.113 --> 00:04:36.813
You know, they were, they were getting dejected from their rejections and, uh, over and over and over.
00:04:36.983 --> 00:04:38.763
So, you know, it started out really small.
00:04:38.793 --> 00:04:50.863
I, I just really, I, I just did, uh, arts people and teachers, but then assistant principals, a lot of assistant principals I, I ran into that were trying to get into the principal role.
00:04:50.943 --> 00:04:57.753
Uh, I'm sure you, you know that way back when, the str- the struggle is real for assistant principals trying to break into the, uh, principal role.
00:04:57.753 --> 00:05:14.193
And you might be saying, "And what does an arts guy know about, you know, assistant principals trying to break into the principal role?" I've set, I sit on many different
hiring… I've sat and continue to sit on many different hiring panels throughout the years, and, uh, I know what works and what doesn't work, and I give them frameworks.
00:05:14.213 --> 00:05:35.341
I give them, uh, you know, I don't s- tell them to memorize these answers, but we workshop, uh, different versions of their answers and, uh… And you know, I find, Mike, uh, may- maybe you found
this w- when you were a principal interviewing vice principal candidates, that the, the, the answer that trips them up the most is the first one, which is tell me a little- bit about yourself, right?
00:05:35.711 --> 00:05:44.951
It's like people just go in circles, they ramble for 10 minutes, or they come up with a 20-second answer that tells the hiring panel nothing.
00:05:45.261 --> 00:05:51.021
And, uh, you know, you'd be surprised at how much work just goes into that one question, but first impressions mean everything, right?
00:05:51.311 --> 00:05:58.641
So, uh, that's a li- a little bit about what I do now in my roles, plural.
00:05:58.951 --> 00:05:59.291
Yeah.
00:06:00.841 --> 00:06:16.291
Did you, uh… Yeah, and I can totally relate it, what, what you're saying and thinking about the interviews and, and things like that, that those first questions
or first couple questions, sometimes those first couple questions are like, "Okay, this interview's over," and you're just gonna go through the motions anyway.
00:06:16.301 --> 00:06:16.321
Yeah.
00:06:16.331 --> 00:06:16.821
But, uh,
00:06:19.911 --> 00:06:21.471
how you start matters for sure.
00:06:21.471 --> 00:06:23.801
So if you're listening, um, this is important.
00:06:24.801 --> 00:06:38.681
I'm curious, did you start this, um, kind of looking at within education, kinda helping the, whether it's teacher get into administration or teacher get into a different role or maybe the assistant principal getting into the principal roles?
00:06:38.781 --> 00:06:58.941
'Cause there's a whole other separate conversation I'd- I wanna get into in addition to that is we also have this- What feels like
sometimes this desire, this mass exodus of people that are wanting to spin out of education and find a place in industry somewhere else.
00:06:59.001 --> 00:07:03.211
Um, and so I'm curious first and foremost, like, where did you start it?
00:07:03.251 --> 00:07:10.551
And are you s- And, and then also are you also focused on the latter part of that where people are trying to get out of education?
00:07:10.551 --> 00:07:10.881
Without … Yeah.
00:07:10.881 --> 00:07:15.231
'Cause one of my roles, goals is- Right … to keep people in to educate, in, in education.
00:07:15.571 --> 00:07:22.131
But I see there's probably a huge value in what you're doing too, is helping people maybe spin out of education.
00:07:22.131 --> 00:07:24.561
So we might be on competing forces here- Yeah … but I'm curious nonetheless.
00:07:24.561 --> 00:07:27.141
No, your question is spot on and I understand where it's coming from.
00:07:27.141 --> 00:07:35.931
And I have a, I, I have a, a pretty detailed answer for you because, uh, where, where I started and where I am are, are two very different places.
00:07:36.001 --> 00:07:49.991
I, I st- I started out thinking, uh, that I would just be helping out, you know, arts teachers and regular teachers and maybe a VP here or there, uh, you know, interview better, get their resume looking better so they get their foot in the door.
00:07:50.581 --> 00:07:56.691
But then, I mean, I, I, I started … I, I knew no- I don't know about you, man, but like two years ago I had no presence.
00:07:56.741 --> 00:07:58.221
I, I did nothing on LinkedIn.
00:07:58.221 --> 00:07:59.401
I mean, I'm on Facebook.
00:07:59.401 --> 00:08:01.331
I'm an old guy on Facebook, you know, older guy.
00:08:01.341 --> 00:08:02.661
I shouldn't say old guy, I'm 52.
00:08:02.961 --> 00:08:09.791
Uh, but I'm on Facebook, uh, I'm on, um, uh, Instagram, but I, nothing to do with, uh, LinkedIn.
00:08:10.291 --> 00:08:23.161
And then I was like, "You know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna put a couple posts on LinkedIn about what I, what I'm doing now," thinking I'd get more teachers interested in p- pivoting up to leadership roles or, uh, vice principals and principals.
00:08:23.631 --> 00:08:33.331
But what I found was I was getting my inbox flooded with what you just s- you know, referenced which is burnout, burnout, and did I mention burnout?
00:08:33.751 --> 00:08:39.401
Uh, and people wanting out of education which is, you know, sad, scary, but true.
00:08:39.411 --> 00:08:45.971
You know, I, it, it's, uh … You know, I love my job but many people, uh, unfortunately don't anymore in education.
00:08:45.971 --> 00:08:49.321
It's not because, uh, of their bosses per se.
00:08:49.321 --> 00:08:53.451
It's not because of, um, the role or the job itself.
00:08:53.451 --> 00:09:01.041
It's because, and stop me if you've heard this, they feel like the behaviors have changed dramatically, uh, s- in the last three to four to five years.
00:09:01.361 --> 00:09:06.151
They feel like there's more responsibilities and less time to do that.
00:09:06.151 --> 00:09:11.301
They, their, their mental health is, is, uh, not as strong in the job they're doing.
00:09:11.301 --> 00:09:15.001
They feel like the parents don't, uh, respect and support them anymore.
00:09:15.201 --> 00:09:16.311
And I was hearing all that.
00:09:16.311 --> 00:09:22.619
I'm hearing all that and I was like, "But what do I know about- Education-adjacent positions.
00:09:22.619 --> 00:09:35.969
I, I know education, but I started doing research, and, uh, you know, I found out that there's a ton of different education-adjacent positions
that, you know, burnt out, and not only burnt out teachers, teachers who wanna, who feel like they want more out of their careers can go into.
00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:37.769
Uh, and I can tell you about some of them.
00:09:37.769 --> 00:09:40.929
You know, like learning and development, tha- that's one.
00:09:40.929 --> 00:09:42.969
You know, ed tech, huge.
00:09:43.379 --> 00:09:45.969
Uh, nonprofit executive roles.
00:09:45.999 --> 00:09:49.129
Uh, there's instructional design, client success.
00:09:49.409 --> 00:10:08.369
You know, there's so many different avenues to go towards, but what I found was that these people were applying to those roles but not getting
traction because they were still speaking in teacher speak or principal speak versus, I don't wanna say corporate speak, but education-adjacent speak.
00:10:08.769 --> 00:10:13.419
And that's where a lot of my, uh, coaching then started pivoting into.
00:10:13.999 --> 00:10:17.859
So I was living the pivoted dream, pivoting dream as these people were pivoting
00:10:20.549 --> 00:10:20.619
too.
00:10:20.619 --> 00:10:21.369
Like we're, we're, uh, we're, we're all doing it together.
00:10:21.609 --> 00:10:25.979
Uh, so, you know, I helped them, you know, change their bullets on their resume.
00:10:25.989 --> 00:10:26.839
And I don't wanna say change.
00:10:26.839 --> 00:10:36.339
I should say, um, kind of shape their bullets, uh, uh, their resumes to more reflect, uh, uh, the, the roles they're going for.
00:10:36.639 --> 00:10:57.179
And, uh, and then we started talking about, you know, how do, uh, you know… The, the just the corporate speak is just very different from the education speak, and
we- the, that's where- that w- that was what a large part of my, uh, my clientel- my clientele was, particularly from, I'd say, October through February of the year.
00:10:57.449 --> 00:11:02.189
You know, once the school year began, ay, ay, ay, you know, uh, this is … I can't take it.
00:11:02.219 --> 00:11:06.979
And then now from, like March through August, I feel like I've… You know, it's switched.
00:11:06.979 --> 00:11:10.469
It's more leaders trying to pivot upwards.
00:11:10.499 --> 00:11:11.909
But there's ton- don't get me wrong.
00:11:11.939 --> 00:11:17.869
There are tons of educators out there who need to hear what, what, what it's like outside education.
00:11:17.869 --> 00:11:23.579
And I like to s- uh, say that I'm, I'm not t- telling or, or teaching teachers how to get out of education.
00:11:23.849 --> 00:11:26.829
I'm, I'm just teaching them how to grow in a different way, you know?
00:11:26.869 --> 00:11:29.629
Uh, and, uh, uh, they're never leaving teaching.
00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:34.279
They're just teaching, uh, through a different avenue or through a different vehicle.
00:11:34.619 --> 00:11:36.319
And I'm here for any, any avenue.
00:11:36.329 --> 00:11:36.349
Yeah.
00:11:36.409 --> 00:11:43.259
Uh, uh, you know, if, if someone wants to stay in education and go upwards, I can h- you know, I've helped with that and, uh, the other route as well.
00:11:43.619 --> 00:11:55.339
Uh, I do find, and maybe you've found this too in your interviews, that unfortunately and sadly there are a lot more teachers wanting to leave the field than stay in it these last few years, especially those teaching 10 years or more.
00:11:57.951 --> 00:11:59.641
Yeah, absolutely.
00:11:59.991 --> 00:12:15.581
Yeah, your, um, work reminds me of, um… I haven't done a lot of this work, but I had a, uh, colleague connect me with a current teacher coach, um, in my own state, and he's, he's been looking to try to get into industry.
00:12:15.581 --> 00:12:23.771
And so probably similar work that you're doing with, with others is, you know, we're just sh- back and forth sharing his resume and re-crafting.
00:12:23.781 --> 00:12:43.415
You know, you can Take pretty much any part of your resume, but if you, if you s- if you just go based on your current context as a teacher, coach,
or administrator, and you just build it, that when, when that ed tech, tech company gets it, they're gonna say, "Well, this is a, this is a teacher.
00:12:43.415 --> 00:12:44.345
I'm not looking for a teacher.
00:12:44.345 --> 00:12:47.795
I'm looking for a customer, you know, support specialist.
00:12:47.795 --> 00:12:59.665
I'm looking for, you know, a s- a internal sales, you know, a lead or whatever else." So what, what I m- you know, I don't know if this was the right advice.
00:12:59.705 --> 00:13:02.985
I haven't dug as far as, as into it as you have.
00:13:03.015 --> 00:13:10.315
But I was like, start with the job that you're trying to go in, you know, go towards, and then work backwards.
00:13:10.325 --> 00:13:16.015
How do y- how do you recraft, um, your- Mm-hmm … messaging?
00:13:16.335 --> 00:13:17.315
Not lie.
00:13:17.375 --> 00:13:17.405
No.
00:13:17.405 --> 00:13:18.875
It's never about lying or exaggerating.
00:13:19.255 --> 00:13:20.835
Not make stuff up.
00:13:20.955 --> 00:13:23.279
But like, look at- Just reframing it.
00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:33.305
Reframing it … look at your experiences, yeah, and say, "How, how can that experience or what I've already done, um, translate into this role?" Right?
00:13:33.325 --> 00:13:39.435
And, and then be able to, um, yeah, message it appropriately.
00:13:39.435 --> 00:13:41.005
And I think that's what maybe what you mean.
00:13:41.005 --> 00:13:48.045
I think you, you said, um, most often educators maybe are under-translated, not under-qualified.
00:13:48.045 --> 00:13:49.315
Is that kinda what you mean?
00:13:49.515 --> 00:13:49.535
Yeah.
00:13:49.535 --> 00:13:50.645
It's, it's not the qualification.
00:13:50.645 --> 00:13:51.265
The translation is huge.
00:13:51.265 --> 00:13:52.565
It's how you translate those qualifications.
00:13:52.565 --> 00:13:54.575
And I wanna give you a quick example based on what you were just saying.
00:13:54.575 --> 00:14:01.265
You know, I worked with a teacher, uh, who had applied to more than, uh, you know, 40 corporate learning and development jobs, right?
00:14:01.315 --> 00:14:04.265
And, like, 40 ti- 40 times she rejected.
00:14:04.265 --> 00:14:05.845
N- not even a foot in the door.
00:14:06.185 --> 00:14:08.695
And, uh, never made it past the phone screen.
00:14:09.135 --> 00:14:14.605
And so, uh, we changed how, you know, the experience was coming through.
00:14:14.705 --> 00:14:15.875
Uh, we didn't exaggerate.
00:14:15.935 --> 00:14:18.935
We didn't, uh, you know, uh, make up stuff or anything.
00:14:19.165 --> 00:14:25.365
Uh, for example, on her resume, uh, she originally had, uh, created lesson plans and supported teacher training.
00:14:25.455 --> 00:14:27.995
Uh, you know, a bullet that many teachers have.
00:14:28.615 --> 00:14:32.855
But like you said, corporate jobs, they're not looking for lesson planning.
00:14:33.395 --> 00:14:42.585
So we reframed it as, you know, designed and facilitated professional learning systems that improved instructional consistency across multiple teams.
00:14:43.175 --> 00:14:51.255
Uh, another example would be a bullet that said, "Worked with struggling students and parents." Well, an edtech company doesn't really care about that, uh, if I'm being blunt.
00:14:51.505 --> 00:15:04.645
Uh, so we reframed it as, and it's the same concept just reframed differently, "Managed high-stake stakeholder communication while coordinating individual intervention planning across multidisciplinary teams." Same work, right?
00:15:05.065 --> 00:15:07.785
But completely different interpretation.
00:15:08.235 --> 00:15:11.065
And even her interview opener, you know, changed a little bit.
00:15:11.065 --> 00:15:16.909
Instead of, "I'm passionate about helping students"- Which all good teachers are.
00:15:17.219 --> 00:15:31.889
We shifted towards, "I specialize in improving learning experiences through training, communication, and performance support." And within two weeks, you know, she had multiple interviews, and within two months, multiple offers because
00:15:32.149 --> 00:15:34.579
Now, I, I, that … I'm simplifying it and making it sound easy.
00:15:34.579 --> 00:15:39.239
I, I don't wanna give the impression to your audience that all they have to do is change a couple bullets and they're gonna get jobs, you know?
00:15:39.649 --> 00:16:02.899
Because this, these, uh, ed tech and, uh, instructional design and learning development po- positions are so, um, competitive nowadays that I, I just spoke to a client,
uh, literally yesterday who said, and this is not an exaggeration, since February she's applied to 375 jobs on indeed.com and LinkedIn, and she's gotten zero responses.
00:16:03.289 --> 00:16:11.749
Now, I looked at her resume, and she had, you know, she … It was dec- it wasn't like the, uh, you know, I did, I s- I'm passionate about teaching, I, I do lesson planning.
00:16:11.749 --> 00:16:18.819
But it wasn't like what we talked either, uh, what we just talked about, and we, we changed some things, and we're, I'm hoping for, that she has a different impact.
00:16:18.819 --> 00:16:31.189
But this is what the typical teacher who is, uh, experiencing, that they're, when they wanna, wanna get out of education, it's not like it's just I apply five jobs, I'll get something, 'cause it's, it's so heavily competitive right now.
00:16:31.479 --> 00:16:39.839
But, you know, to, to get that extra step up, whether you're an administrator, a teacher, teacher leader, uh, you know, it, it is good to translate your experience into
00:16:39.999 --> 00:16:48.609
And also, I find a lot of teachers particularly, maybe not so much assistant principals and principals, but they negate their, uh, their experience as well.
00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:50.619
I'm j- I, I'm just a teacher.
00:16:50.659 --> 00:16:52.189
I'm just a vice principal.
00:16:52.569 --> 00:16:54.809
I'm just a building leader, uh, what.
00:16:54.829 --> 00:16:55.559
But you're not.
00:16:55.569 --> 00:17:02.429
You're doing so many different things on a leadership level, uh, that translates into these other positions.
00:17:02.429 --> 00:17:04.529
It's just my job to kinda help bring it out
00:17:07.071 --> 00:17:08.261
Yeah, absolutely.
00:17:08.851 --> 00:17:22.451
Um, well, and I think the additional challenge in, in this is not just the, you know, hurdle of retranslating your qualifications, skill set ex- and experiences.
00:17:23.491 --> 00:17:27.621
The reality is, is outside of education, the job market- Mm-hmm.
00:17:27.631 --> 00:17:29.081
You're right … is also very tough- Mm-hmm
00:17:29.141 --> 00:17:30.221
um, right now.
00:17:30.271 --> 00:17:32.221
You know, there's tons of layoffs.
00:17:32.331 --> 00:17:36.891
Um, ed tech is, you know, an ar- well, all of it is, is no exception.
00:17:37.341 --> 00:17:52.121
So even with the best resume, um, connected to the, to the right, you know, potential opportunities, may not result in a job because there's not a lot of jobs out there right now that… And maybe there is.
00:17:52.121 --> 00:17:56.951
I haven't r- been on the job hunt for a while, but, um, but it, but it's a tough market out there.
00:17:56.991 --> 00:18:02.101
I mean, I know many, many college graduates that are, you know, looking for- Yep.
00:18:02.121 --> 00:18:05.101
Absolutely … anything they can find at this point, uh, because there's not a lot out there.
00:18:05.801 --> 00:18:10.521
Um, so I'm curious, um, you know, what other…
00:18:11.421 --> 00:18:32.711
I'll sh- I'll share, you know, like, what other, like, beyond the resume and, and the, the translations of those skills and experiences, what other
advice you give people to, uh, whether it's grow into a position within education or s- pivot out of education into oth- other, other positions.
00:18:33.121 --> 00:18:36.191
I have my own ideas or, or experiences in that.
00:18:36.191 --> 00:18:45.829
I'm, I'm curious on what are the things that you maybe would add to, uh- To, uh, to, to a, a person's- Toolbox.
00:18:46.459 --> 00:18:51.109
Yeah … repertoire to help… Yeah, toolbox to help them kind of move up or, you know- Yeah.
00:18:51.139 --> 00:19:05.479
The biggest- I'd say one of the biggest mistakes I find that educators make when, you know, trying to move into, uh, higher level roles,
whether it's within or outside of education, is they, uh, you know, describe responsibilities, uh, instead of demonstrating leadership thinking.
00:19:05.479 --> 00:19:09.419
So, you know, principals actually, you know, see this constantly.
00:19:09.419 --> 00:19:14.369
Uh, you know, you post an AP opening, uh, somebody applies who you know is strong, right?
00:19:14.809 --> 00:19:28.509
And, and their resume says, "Collaborated with colleagues, served on committees, supported student achievement," and you immediately think
to yourself, um, you know, you're underselling yourself, which is what I was talking about earlier with this, just negating your experience.
00:19:28.569 --> 00:19:30.129
Because you know what they actually did.
00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:38.019
Uh, you know, they identified performance gaps, they re- redesigned systems, they trained teams, they influenced outcomes.
00:19:38.439 --> 00:19:44.569
But if people can't communicate their work at the le- at that level, you know, hiring teams never fully see it.
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:59.699
So one of the biggest shifts that I teach is helping people move from, you know, "Here's what I handled" to "Here's the problem I, I, I identified, the decision I made, and the impact that followed."
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:06.959
Because, you know, executive level hiring is really about evaluating how somebody thinks under complexity, right?
00:20:07.149 --> 00:20:09.939
And not just the tasks, the tasks that they completed.
00:20:10.099 --> 00:20:19.489
And honestly, you know, once principals understand that distinction, you know, they start developing their own people differently too, which is something I know we haven't talked about yet, but maybe, maybe we may want to.
00:20:19.489 --> 00:20:28.379
You know, how to prevent the teachers from burning out, you know, uh, you know, uh, from, uh, you know, your, finding your best teachers are, as you said, spinning out.
00:20:28.579 --> 00:20:38.489
Uh, it's not a t- I don't know about you, I have… I, I, I, uh, supervise 65, 70 teachers and, uh, I'm cons- I'm consistently surprised.
00:20:38.669 --> 00:20:49.729
And I don't have many teachers leave, but the ones that do are the ones that I'm, like, sometimes surprised about versus the ones that should leave, they stay on.
00:20:50.219 --> 00:20:50.559
You know?
00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:58.459
So, like, how can we help prevent, uh, you know, uh, these high level educators from leaving the field?
00:20:58.689 --> 00:21:02.169
And, um, you know, that's something we could, you know, talk about too
00:21:05.173 --> 00:21:05.333
Yeah.
00:21:06.563 --> 00:21:14.963
Couple things I would add, um, maybe to the conversation, um, that I believe to be true in my own personal journey.
00:21:15.023 --> 00:21:20.513
Um, and I think it makes a difference when I, when I'm hiring.
00:21:20.933 --> 00:21:34.777
And coincidentally, you know, as a- Yeah … I'm a former high school principal, um, been in education a long time spun out still in education, but now I'm running a software company.
00:21:34.837 --> 00:21:36.707
So very, very different.
00:21:36.767 --> 00:21:36.807
I bet.
00:21:36.817 --> 00:21:59.417
Um, but I didn't wait for someone to tell me, you know, give me that opportunity, and this leads to my first thing is, if it's something you want
to do and you're g- don't wait for a job to start doing it or don't wait for someone to hand you kind of the keys to a, to, to the door- Mm-hmm
00:21:59.427 --> 00:22:00.147
to start.
00:22:00.807 --> 00:22:17.397
Um, I think if you wanna go into ed tech or you wanna go into consulting or you wanna do whatever it is you wanna do, start doing it before it, before it becomes your full-time job, before it becomes an opportunity.
00:22:17.417 --> 00:22:34.837
There's, there's, there's, there's always space for something, and I, yeah, I know how busy we all are, but, um, whether it's a little bit, you know, a couple
nights a, a week on, in the evenings or in the summer, you start chipping away at some real experiences in a direction that you want to go ev- eventually.
00:22:35.357 --> 00:22:51.357
That makes a, the path a lot shorter than going from where I am today, and I have this dream of being, you know, this, in this other role, you know, in the future, but I'm not doing anything to move in that direction.
00:22:51.397 --> 00:22:55.637
And it's more than just resumes and more than just preparing for the interview.
00:22:55.637 --> 00:23:01.747
It's ac- actually what have you done proactively to move towards that?
00:23:01.747 --> 00:23:03.677
You'll really distinguish yourself with that.
00:23:03.837 --> 00:23:06.787
You know, uh, whether it's getting some additional training or… Right.
00:23:06.907 --> 00:23:07.187
Yeah.
00:23:07.687 --> 00:23:17.557
Because otherwise it's like, yeah, I want that, you know, customer sales success job at this ed tech company, but what have I done that's remotely close?
00:23:17.557 --> 00:23:22.577
I can maybe translate some of these skills but, you know, are there some other things that I can do in, in between?
00:23:23.307 --> 00:23:38.647
Um, so I think that's important, too, is I think sometimes we dream about where we wanna go, but we don't take the first step on- Mm-hmm … on the initiative other than maybe just recrafting our resume and throwing out some, some, some applications.
00:23:38.657 --> 00:23:43.207
Like, I think there's, there's things that you can do while you're waiting for that opportunity.
00:23:43.207 --> 00:23:44.947
I, I agree wholeheartedly with that.
00:23:44.947 --> 00:23:45.857
Um- I really do.
00:23:46.077 --> 00:23:49.347
What is the, what is the quote?
00:23:49.407 --> 00:23:57.767
Uh, luck is when, um, preparedness meets opportunity, I think is, is something like that.
00:23:57.767 --> 00:24:00.987
I think I probably butchered it, but I think that's very true.
00:24:00.987 --> 00:24:02.607
It's like, yeah, I got lucky on this job.
00:24:02.607 --> 00:24:04.887
Well, actually, I've been working- Mm-hmm
00:24:04.887 --> 00:24:10.308
to prepare for it- And the opportunity finally presented itself, but I was ready for it, and I took it.
00:24:10.308 --> 00:24:14.221
And you know, Mike, uh, I just want to tell you one other thing that kind of leads into that.
00:24:14.251 --> 00:24:15.091
Uh, I, I agree.
00:24:15.241 --> 00:24:19.091
Obviously, the, the more you can prepare your skill sets for the future job, obviously the better.
00:24:19.411 --> 00:24:24.901
But I find that, you know, I work with a lot of clients who are surprised they're not getting any, uh, bites.
00:24:24.901 --> 00:24:32.171
But then I say, you know, for educators, a- and I alluded to this earlier, you know, LinkedIn is so out there.
00:24:32.181 --> 00:24:38.801
It's like, you know, there's not many teachers who that, the first social media option of choice is LinkedIn.
00:24:39.061 --> 00:24:42.331
But it is, it really-- And I don't work for LinkedIn.
00:24:42.741 --> 00:24:51.741
I have no affiliation , but it is so essential when you're looking at these education adjacent roles to put yourself out there.
00:24:51.741 --> 00:25:01.181
We, you know, we, we talk about if you're doing these, these, uh, side, side things which you hope to make, uh, into a full-time, uh, uh, job, you should, you should post about it on LinkedIn.
00:25:01.361 --> 00:25:10.571
You should, uh, follow people who do what you want to do and, um, network with them and, uh, sh- exchange ideas.
00:25:10.811 --> 00:25:15.841
And you'd be surprised how much, how many opportunities, uh, open up that way.
00:25:15.841 --> 00:25:24.481
Now, you're not-- you might not get the job, but the door opens if you're surrounding yourself with people who are already doing that job.
00:25:24.701 --> 00:25:35.551
And if you're surrounding yourself with third and fourth and fifth grade teachers, or you're, you know, at, at the high school level, ninth through 12th grade teachers constantly, you're not gonna really get your foot into the ed tech world.
00:25:35.831 --> 00:25:58.231
But you could do that by obviously looking at YouTube tutorial- tutorials and everything under the sun, but then also going on LinkedIn or Handshake or any of these sites and, uh, you know, befr- uh,
connecting with people already in the field, uh, and then posting and, uh, you know, sending private messages and see if they, uh, you know, ha- have any insights and share your insights with them.
00:25:58.571 --> 00:26:03.581
And, uh, that really does, believe it or not, open up a lot of doors I've found with, with the, the clients I coach.
00:26:07.487 --> 00:26:18.057
Jason, I don't disagree with you, but I'm … Uh, any of my colleagues, friends that are listening, um, know that for some reason- Yeah … I just hate LinkedIn.
00:26:18.057 --> 00:26:18.707
Totally.
00:26:18.707 --> 00:26:26.377
And I know it's a necessary thing, but I just- It's very … Some people think it's very fake- I, I just- … it's very, uh … You know, everybody's, like, just excited right about.
00:26:26.377 --> 00:26:28.027
Uh, and w- but I get it.
00:26:28.037 --> 00:26:31.397
But, you know, uh, a- and if it's not for you, it's not for you.
00:26:31.447 --> 00:26:34.617
I'm just telling you- It's like if somebody- … what works for me, uh, you know, that I found, you know?
00:26:36.047 --> 00:26:36.457
Yeah.
00:26:36.957 --> 00:26:39.747
No, I'm be- I'm being, you know, kinda tongue in cheek here.
00:26:39.747 --> 00:26:42.827
But I just, like, really, really … You know, I, I, I agree with you.
00:26:42.827 --> 00:26:44.007
It is important.
00:26:44.087 --> 00:26:49.077
Uh, it's an important place to, uh, network, connect, um- Yeah.
00:26:49.077 --> 00:26:49.477
Try gonna shake them.
00:26:49.477 --> 00:26:49.657
And,
00:26:51.877 --> 00:26:54.637
uh- They really like that … and, and, a- and learn and all, all those ty- ty- types of things.
00:26:54.637 --> 00:26:57.757
But it's just- I'll tell you one other thing, Mike- … yeah, what I struggle with is, like, you know, the- … uh, because, uh, you know, you and I may
00:26:57.977 --> 00:27:04.747
I might be around the, the same age, and I know for, uh, I'd say 35, 40 and up, uh, Facebook is, is more, uh, palatable, let's say.
00:27:05.047 --> 00:27:07.987
Uh, the, uh, I'll, I'll, I'll take it one step further.
00:27:08.187 --> 00:27:15.897
There are so many, uh, Facebook groups out there, uh, for instructional designers, for ed tech software developers.
00:27:16.237 --> 00:27:17.687
Get yourself in those groups.
00:27:17.957 --> 00:27:20.697
Post there, you know, share ideas.
00:27:20.727 --> 00:27:24.797
And th- that's another place you can learn if LinkedIn isn't your cup of tea, which I totally get.
00:27:24.997 --> 00:27:33.977
But, you know, you … Social media sometimes gets, uh, you know, a lot of the time, and rightfully so, gets, uh, you know, made out to be the, uh, the villain, and, uh, you know, a- and I get why.
00:27:34.037 --> 00:27:38.537
Uh, but there's, there's a lot of, uh … You know, it can help your career if used properly.
00:27:38.987 --> 00:27:42.277
Um, you know, so just putting that out there.
00:27:42.277 --> 00:27:42.597
Yeah.
00:27:42.697 --> 00:27:45.627
Abs- no, and I, I, and I, I, I agree with you.
00:27:45.727 --> 00:27:53.957
Um, but it … Yeah, I just had to- … say something about LinkedIn 'cause I've just have, have had my own struggles, um, with- Mm-hmm … with, with the platform itself.
00:27:54.437 --> 00:27:59.147
So is your book now published, or you … Is it still in, in the queue?
00:27:59.157 --> 00:28:00.567
Where, where are you at on the rejection spectrum?
00:28:00.567 --> 00:28:01.117
Thanks for asking.
00:28:01.157 --> 00:28:03.187
Um, I am in the final edits phase.
00:28:03.307 --> 00:28:10.707
Uh, the book is due to come out, uh, in, uh, June, July, uh, this summer, and then, uh, through the publisher, Amplify Publishing.
00:28:11.057 --> 00:28:17.377
And then, uh, by August, I'm hoping it'll be in Amazon, and, uh, Barnes & Nobles and other bookstores near you.
00:28:17.697 --> 00:28:19.647
Uh, so that's the plan.
00:28:20.127 --> 00:28:23.257
And, uh, yeah, uh, the … I'm, I'm really excited about it
00:28:25.545 --> 00:28:56.819
And so f- someone that's look- looking to pick that up once it's, what's, it's published, you know, if they're looking, if they're looking at either, you know, an opportunity to grow, you know, vertically in their career and, and do some things
within the education space or spin out and find something, this is a book that they can use as a guide to kinda help, help them, um Whether it's rewrite and retranslate their skills on their resume, prepare better for a, uh, an interview.
00:28:57.229 --> 00:29:03.239
Um, what are other, some tangible takeaways that they're gonna get from your book that will really help them in one of those three ways?
00:29:03.239 --> 00:29:06.559
Well, it- it's, it has actually, uh, it's about 200 pages in it.
00:29:06.589 --> 00:29:08.319
It, it, uh, it's very readable.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:10.129
You don't have to read it from one to 200.
00:29:10.179 --> 00:29:15.969
Uh, you can do it section by section depending on what phase of your, uh, you know, career search, your, your, your job search you're at.
00:29:16.339 --> 00:29:19.279
But I, I, um, I cover all those areas.
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:22.769
It's not just for educators who are trying to pivot out of education.
00:29:23.009 --> 00:29:27.649
It's not just for, uh, teacher leaders who wanna become assistant principals.
00:29:27.859 --> 00:29:32.449
It's, it's for, uh, it's different chapters for different types of, um, uh, pivots.
00:29:32.979 --> 00:29:41.279
And but every type of pivot- pivot has the same thing in common, which is translating what they do currently into the career they want to do.
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:44.119
So we go over, there's- there's- there's worksheets in there.
00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:45.039
There's frameworks.
00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:47.469
There's, uh, real world scenarios.
00:29:47.469 --> 00:29:54.819
There's case studies, uh, uh, telling you, uh, what people I've worked with have done to get the success in, in their pivot.
00:29:55.159 --> 00:29:58.889
Um, and, uh, I know, Mike, this is the dirty word, LinkedIn.
00:29:58.889 --> 00:30:03.579
It does have a whole section on LinkedIn, uh, how to use it properly if you're scared of it or hate it.
00:30:04.029 --> 00:30:06.419
You know, how you can- I'll get your book.
00:30:06.429 --> 00:30:08.009
I'll get your book just to read that chapter.
00:30:08.009 --> 00:30:08.479
There's a whole chapter on there.
00:30:08.539 --> 00:30:08.859
Yeah.
00:30:08.859 --> 00:30:09.442
It could be solid help.
00:30:09.442 --> 00:30:15.389
Um, there's also chapters on, you know, once… This is something that a lot, not a lot of books I've read talk about and which is why I wanted to include it.
00:30:15.549 --> 00:30:21.169
All right, now that you've got the job, uh, oh my God, I, I've never done this, uh, type of thing.
00:30:21.179 --> 00:30:22.239
Fake it till you make it, right?
00:30:22.489 --> 00:30:26.499
But, uh, what, what, what ne- what, what next after that, you know?
00:30:26.749 --> 00:30:32.189
How, how do you present yourself to your staff in an education adjacent role?
00:30:32.199 --> 00:30:36.479
How do you, uh, how do you lead, uh, uh, from a different level?
00:30:36.649 --> 00:30:38.629
And that's, that's a whole chapter.
00:30:39.239 --> 00:30:52.879
But, you know, it starts off with what we talked about, just, uh, how to reframe your, the, your, your resume and then what, what
you should be thinking about, how you can be coached in interviews when you're applying to pivot either upwards or out of education.
00:30:53.229 --> 00:30:54.959
So it's a very practical book.
00:30:55.189 --> 00:31:00.039
It's not a, uh, it's not, it's n- there's nothing that you're gonna bl- it's gonna blow your mind.
00:31:00.049 --> 00:31:02.619
I, I, I write in very, like I talk.
00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:04.829
I think I'm not just splitting my own boat here.
00:31:04.829 --> 00:31:05.819
Many people have told me that.
00:31:05.819 --> 00:31:10.109
It's, it's very, if you, you could see how I write if you, if you go on, uh, LinkedIn.
00:31:11.089 --> 00:31:15.389
If you go on LinkedIn, I, uh, Jason Leshowitz, L-E-S-H-O-W-I-T-Z.
00:31:15.389 --> 00:31:19.279
A lot of things I have in the book, uh, started off at, as posts there.
00:31:19.539 --> 00:31:26.989
Uh, and I also have an Instagram page, @rejectionproofcareer, which a lot, also a lot of things I cover in the book are on there as well.
00:31:26.989 --> 00:31:33.149
And, uh, if you like that writing style, if you like what I'm saying, I'd love you to pick up the book, uh, when it comes out this summer.
00:31:35.777 --> 00:31:44.487
Yeah, we'll definitely put a link, um, to your LinkedIn and wherever el- your website and anything else in the show notes so people can access and reach out to you.
00:31:44.487 --> 00:31:46.977
Um- And Mike, I'm glad you brought up the website 'cause I forgot to mention that.
00:31:46.977 --> 00:31:47.507
Silly me.
00:31:47.707 --> 00:31:50.127
Uh, uh, rejectionproofcareer.com.
00:31:50.157 --> 00:31:53.437
I, I have many free resources on there.
00:31:53.647 --> 00:31:57.737
Uh, worksheets, w- worksheets, frameworks, and everything else under the sun.
00:31:58.017 --> 00:32:04.657
Uh, so yeah, that, that… A- again, if you're pivoting out or upwards in education, there's something for everyone on there.
00:32:04.937 --> 00:32:13.017
Uh, and that, and there's also an early access sign-up list to get on the book to get the, uh, first chapters of the book if you'd like to, uh, go to the site.
00:32:13.017 --> 00:32:14.197
So thank you for bringing that up, Mike.
00:32:16.737 --> 00:32:17.137
Awesome.
00:32:17.777 --> 00:32:18.067
All right.
00:32:18.077 --> 00:32:20.857
Sounds like great, great resource for, for people.
00:32:20.857 --> 00:32:28.287
I hope the people that are listening are looking at it as a way to stay in education but to grow in their professional career.
00:32:28.287 --> 00:32:40.297
We need more great people leading, um, and being part of, of, of, of our education landscape across the US, and I know it's tough work, um, but there's a lot of support out there for you.
00:32:40.317 --> 00:32:43.777
Um, and sounds like this is another great opportunity.
00:32:43.777 --> 00:32:52.067
So, um, as we close up today, Jason, I always ask the, the last question, um, of the, of the show.
00:32:52.627 --> 00:32:54.837
What does it mean to you to be a transformative leader?
00:32:56.367 --> 00:33:22.877
What it means to me is giving, uh, educators the, not only the skillsets but the confidence and motivation to really, uh, do what they love and love what they do, and
sometimes that mean, may, may mean to s- continue in education a- and get into a leadership role, and sometimes that may mean to, uh, lead other people outside of education.
00:33:23.127 --> 00:33:31.737
But I obviously would love to give them the tools to do that more confidently and competently, and that's what it means to me to be a transformational leader
00:33:34.429 --> 00:33:34.809
Awesome.
00:33:35.309 --> 00:33:35.959
Thanks, Jason.
00:33:35.959 --> 00:33:45.909
Again, we'll put, uh, your information in the show notes for anybody that would like to reach out to you directly through LinkedIn, which is just a great platform, and, uh, or directly to your website.
00:33:45.909 --> 00:33:47.659
So Jason, thanks for being part of this.
00:33:47.659 --> 00:33:53.629
I know we had some technology challenges at the beginning- Thank you … but we pers- you persevered, made it happen anyway.
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:59.459
And, uh, for those of you listening, thanks for listening to another episode of Transformative Principal podcast.
00:33:59.479 --> 00:34:00.229
We'll catch you at the next one.
00:34:00.229 --> 00:34:00.579
Thank you.
00:34:00.639 --> 00:34:01.339
Thanks again, Jason.
