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00:00:01
Welcome to the Visible Coaches podcast. I'm Angela Durant, and you'll meet Anke Herrmann a little later. Between us, we have 30 years of business experience. We've started and grown our businesses from nothing but an idea, learning to play to our strengths as introverts. See in what often feels like an extrovert world. If you have ever felt any resistance to how others tell you you have to market yourself or bury your soul on social media just to get clients, then this podcast is for you. We know the unique challenges that introverted coaches face when it comes to selling their services. So if you're ready to learn how to spot those golden opportunities right under your nose, clarify your message, nurture that market, and get more business coming your way. All without sacrificing your energy levels or well being, then plug your AirPods in and let's go!
Angela:
00:00:53
Well, welcome to the Visible Coaches podcast with Angela and Anka, and I am very happy today to introduce you to a new guest, Yasmin Varadji. Now Yasmin and I go back, gosh, way too long. And isn't that a beautiful thing, actually, that you meet on many courses or masterminds. And you follow each other's journey or you're in the same neck of the woods or sometimes you go in different directions. But Yasmin and I Both share a passion for messaging. And I wanted to bring her onto the podcast today so that we could talk about messaging mistakes. And you're so used to hearing from Anke and I. We thought it would be lovely to bring a different voice into the messaging conversation. So welcome, uh, Yasmin. How are you doing?
Yasmin:
00:01:38
That's great. Thank you. I'm very well and thank you for having me on Angela and Anka. Thank you.
Angela:
00:01:43
Lovely. So what would be fantastic is And I know you've written a book as well around tiny time. Do you wanna just share your journey just a little bit as to how it's evolved into messaging from from where you've gone and why maybe you even took that direction.
Yasmin:
00:01:57
Mhmm. Sure. So I've been in business for about eleven years now, and I started my business, Um, when I had finished up in corporate, so I was made redundant at the end of twenty eleven. And I live in rural northwest Ireland, So getting a similar kind of a corporate job was just not gonna be a goer. Um, I had a fifteen month old at the time And I didn't wanna be a commuter mom. And so I thought, right. I'm gonna just dive in. I'm gonna start my own business. I always wanted to have a business because I always had this dream of flexibility, especially with family and things. And so I decided to start my own business. But I only ever really had, like, three to four hours a day. Like, my son would have been in crash For three hours a day, and I was getting really fed up to the point where I was like, I don't have enough time to do everything I need to do. And then I had this light bulb moment where I went, well, you wanna have more kids, so you're never gonna have more time. So if this is the amount of time that you've got, how can you make it work? That's really where tiny, tiny, big results came about. It was this idea that, you know, all these entrepreneurs are going on about how you have to work hundred hours a week. And I was, don't even have, you know, fifty hours. I don't even have forty hours. I don't even have full time hours. So I thought, right. Okay. So how do I Instead of telling myself that I'm, you know, don't have enough time, I said, how can I make this work? And that's really where it all started. And it was about Understanding, okay, what's gonna make the move the needle in three hours a day. Now I have he's my eldest is now thirteen. My daughter is ten, and my youngest son is seven. Um, so my business has pretty much always been a tiny time business. It's I've never had more hours. And it's so funny because when my youngest started school when he was five, we decided to get a puppy because we didn't have enough time enough stuff to be doing. So we said, right. We'll get a puppy as well. So yeah. So I've never had more time. And it was interesting because the whole tiny time big results journey has evolved over the years. Like, there's been things that I focused in on and, know, kind of, I suppose, built my own brand around digital products, uh, premium packages, and and really looking for all the different ways that you could make Your business work if you only had a few hours. And what I really discovered was that my kind of secret sauce, my know, zone of genius was really around the messaging because I love getting into it with my clients. And I'm a very straight Forward talking person and people would say to me I'd say to them like, you know, tell me what it is that you do. And somebody would tell me and I'd be like, I have no idea what that is. A lot of coaches, a lot of experts, we get so into our head with jargon, and we we have the curse of too much knowledge. So then they're, like, telling me about unlocking that potential and, you know, this, that, and the other. And I just feel like, I don't know what that means. Because, you know, if you only got, like, few seconds to grab someone's attention. You need your language to be simple. You need it to be impactful. You need it to be persuasive, but simple above everything. You know? And so I discovered that that's kind of really what I was doing with all of my clients was helping them to really nail their messaging And then creating offers that made sense that people wanted to buy. Because I know people talk about irresistible offers. And I said, well, what is an irresistible offer? It's an offer that someone just doesn't wanna say no to. That they're just like, oh my god. Just take my money. Take my money. And, you know, how you name your products, how you talk about what you do, what you know, all of those things. That's all messaging. Oftentimes people say to me, like, Yavin, will you help me with my messaging? And I'll say, what do you mean by messaging? And they were like, you know, my sixty second spiel. And I said, well, that's, like, the first part of your message, but your message is so much more than that. It is layered into Everything is weaved into everything that you do. And that's really where I get really excited because I'd be like, okay. Let's let's talk about everything around messaging. And that's what I really discovered that messaging is the gateway. That if you wanna have that profitable business in twenty hours a week or less, Then you've gotta get the messaging right. I liken it to like, um, a house. You know, if you're building your house and you need that strong foundation I get people saying to me, like, oh, how do I do reels on Instagram? How do I get onto TikTok? How do I do this? How do and I said, well, what are you Talking about and they'll tell me their message. I'm like, well, I don't understand the message. So it doesn't matter the medium. If the message isn't right, Then, you know, once you get that bit right, then you can go forth and distribute it and share your message and everything. But I think a lot of times, we end up putting The cart before the horse and that's what I really wanna wanna help people because I did the same thing. You know, I did the same thing. I was just, like, throwing everything out there and then wondering why nothing was sticking. And I really had to kinda go back to basics first of my story.
Angela:
00:06:46
I love that. In fact, I was laughing, and I I was sitting there. And I know I could see Anka smiling behind the scenes because of so many of the things that we say between. I'm gonna ask you to to come in. But I just wanted to just acknowledge, uh, I think that that whole bit about You really understanding around time and what you had and not trying to make yourself get feel guilty because you had three hours, actually led to you starting to understand the whole messaging idea about how you were gonna really sort of make traction and nail that in a in a better way. So that's that's amazing to me because I think one does feed into the into the other, um, as you do that. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Over to you.
Anke:
00:07:41
Yeah. No. I I mean, I was giggling too because, like, I get these people come To me, for, you know, tech stuff, it's like, oh, what platform should I use? And I'm like, what are you actually trying to do here? Right? So It's like without those foundations in place, without, yeah, nothing else nothing else makes sense. And and I I love that you didn't Go into, like, oh, how can I make myself more time? Because it feels like most people would go down that rabbit hole. Right. And then they're endlessly frustrated because, yeah, you know, if you have one child or more children or puppy, you know, that's never gonna happen. Right? And you're always saying, well, How can I carve out more time? Like, how can I make more with the time I have? Like, that makes so much sense to me. And and I can also see how that would naturally lead to well, yeah. Let's actually dive in what are you actually trying to do here, you know, because if that isn't right, then then none of None of that. None none of the rest matters. Right? So I'm really curious to hear, when your experience, what the biggest mistakes are that people make.
Yasmin:
00:08:49
I think when it comes to messaging, what I find is, first of all, people overcomplicate, right, massively. Um, the messaging can get really long and they just keep talking and talking and talking and talking. They go into their modalities and they're like they or they tell you their life story from when they were five as to how they got to this point. And it's interesting because I mean, I like I'm really bad. Like, because when I meet somebody new and I'll be like, what is it that you do? Because I always wanna know how people talk about what they do. And I'll be like, okay. But the problem is when you talk for too long, people hear the first bit and the last But they've missed all the bits in the middle and they'll be like, um, I'm not a hundred percent sure. And what I found is people really value that feedback when you say to them, you know, and I always I'm always, like, asking for permission first. It's like, okay. I have some thoughts about what you've just said. Can I share them with you? And they go, yeah. Actually, you know, Because I've been in many courses and programs where, you know, the course leader or the mentor has been like, yeah. That's good. And it hasn't been good. And I'd be like, well, I want someone to actually call me up on it. I remember I did this program, uh, quite recently, and I remember saying like, okay, I'm gonna do this webinar, and this what the title's gonna be and, you know and she was like, yeah. Well, that's good and everything. And then it didn't go as well as I would've liked it to. And she was like, well, I wouldn't have gone with that title, and I wouldn't have gone with that. And I was just like, wow. That would have been really useful to know, you know, like, a month ago. And so for me, that was like, I don't wanna be that mentor. I don't wanna be that coach that's gonna, like, say, yeah, Angela. That sounds great. Amazing. Go and do that. And then they come back and go and then I go, well, like, always had my doubts anyway, and I didn't think it was gonna work. You know? So I think that when it comes to messaging, I mean, and this is a big one, right? I think people overthink their message. Right? They overthink it to the point where they are paralyzed into inaction, that they won't do anything at all. And that paralysis is so dangerous because you'll just go round and round in your And you can't create that clarity in your head. You actually have to get out there and and physically, like, put something out there and see what People respond to whether people go, oh, wow. That's me. Um, and because we're in this bid to get this perfect message, I know this is certainly what I would have said to myself if I was starting again in my business. I'd be like, pick one thing, pick a problem that you solve, And just go and do that. Just talk about that. I was reading a really great article yesterday about how this guy has built up this amazing business. And what he teaches is around Google Sheets. Like, Google Sheets. I mean, And I thought, god, he could have been sitting there going, god, will I do the whole g suite package? Will I do docs? Will I do this? Will I do that? And he went, no. I'm just gonna do Google Sheets. And I just thought, oh, that's genius. You know? So I do think we overthink it. And I've said that to a few people because what they do is and maybe this is the form of self sabotage. Although I do, uh, heard someone say like I don't believe in self sabotage. We're getting a benefit from staying stuck from where we are because there's a reason why we're there. And so I think that sometimes people use messaging confusion as a way of staying ducks so they don't have to put themselves out there. Because when once you have a message, You gotta get visible. You gotta get people, you know, talking about what it is that you do. You gotta get in front of people. And and I'm not saying that you have to get in front of Thousands and thousands of people, but even a few people, a handful of people. And a lot of people don't wanna do that because they're like, oh, they're gonna be judging me and all that kind of stuff. So I think there's a lot of different things that people do with messaging. I think that if I was to look at someone's message, I think the key things I'm looking for is, Is it too broad? Is it generic? Is it vague? Like, the what I will see as a real magnetic message is where it's specific and it's tangible. Like, that somebody can really see what the result is that someone's gonna get. So, like, if you were the guy that was selling Courses about Google Sheets that's really tangible. And I think that people think that the more you know, like, When they talk about self actualization or, like, finding your life's purpose, and I think that doesn't sell Because it is so out there. Um, if there are other pressing needs for that person, and I heard this Re explained very, very well recently, and I never thought of it in this way. But if you think of, like, Maslow's hierarchy of needs and you think about, like, you know, the The pyramid where, you know, at the bottom, you've got, like, your physiological needs. You've got your safety needs. You've got your love and belonging. You've got your connection. And then right at the top is self actualization. But if your client is struggling with physiological needs, They see that they're like, oh, where's the money gonna come from? Or am I gonna get a new job? Am I gonna get that promotion? Whatever it might be. They don't really care about self They're not thinking about, like, how can I be all who I am meant to be? Because they've got other things that are Pressing on them. And that's why they will go and invest with that coach who talks to those needs rather than the person who is like, You know, I want you to be all that you can be. Like, I get a lot of women coming to me where they talk about, you know, I really wanna help women who are, You know, moms, and they're losing themselves, and they're working, and, you know, they need to practice self care. And I said, yeah. But do you know what? I'm, like, I'm that mom. I've got three kids. I've got a business. I don't sit there thinking, god. I really wish I could just practice some self care. That's not a pressing need for me. So if it's by the way, you do a giggling. But if it's not a pressing need for me, I ain't gonna invest. I'm gonna invest in the things that will allow me to be able to create time for self care, but don't sell the self care to me. Yeah. I love it.
Angela:
00:14:59
I love it. I love what you're saying because it's it's everything that we say coming out from a different voice, which is exactly why we were why and also just just so that people are aware, it's, you know, it's like, gosh. Well, isn't that the competition? Yes and no. It's Absolutely vital that we get many voices. Sometimes we'll get it if somebody says it one way and somebody says it the other. Uh, a couple of things that you mentioned there that just sparked off an idea as to why people and confused this message because I think there is some level of process that's gone on. I've recognized it in myself where it's taken a while to really, shall we say, evolve and hone the niche. I think you're absolutely right in picking one problem and go with it. The biggest challenge that I hear from that is that people don't want to be pigeonholed. And the problem is is they're pigeonholing themselves too soon. I was on a call very much this morning, actually, with somebody starting off a new idea and a new venture. She'd done one of it. And the next question was, well, what shall I charge? And what, uh, you know, about Scalability. And I could just feel the problem, this mushrooming idea that that that the reality is we needed to sit with it And stick with it a little bit longer than we often want to in order to actually get that nuance, in order to really see, well, Where's the sweet swap spot between what's the one thing that I could continue to teach and not get bored of it right now for the next three, six months, even twelve months. Um, what what's the market, as you say, really need me to Focus in on and respond to, and then what's the service that's gonna link the two together. So it just made me think about All of the times when, actually, I think sometimes people they're either in the bit that you talked about with self actualization, I thought that of they're either in trying to find a client where they are personally developing themselves right now rather than actually where the client is so they're trying to find people almost to journey with and then pay them for it rather than their Skills and their experience and what's a tangible benefit to people that probably some way behind them in the marketplace right now. Um, and this this time sometimes, it does actually take a little bit of working with a few people and a bit of nuance. Would you agree with me? I just think that's sometimes where the problem is that people are trying to go to you know, we need a clear message in some form, and it evolves. And if it's still confusion, trying to scale confusion in a marketing channel is not going to make more people come and Pay
Yasmin:
00:18:03
you, I think. A hundred percent. I completely agree. And I think that that's when people say, like, I don't wanna be pigeonholed. And I said, would you wanna make money? Because if you want to create like, get clients coming in I'm not saying that money is the be all and end all but it's a business so you think okay. And that's their normal challenge. Like, it really frustrates me when people say things like, I'm not motivated by money. Mhmm. And yet in the same breath, they'll be like, well, I can't afford that Or I can't pay for that, whatever it might be. Right? So, you know, it's we are all motivated by money because we wanna bring money in, And that's one of our goals. It's because it's about financial freedom and independence and all that kind of good stuff. As someone who worked in corporate for twelve years, I'm like, yeah. Do you know what? You know what it's like when you're working for your money, and then you think, okay, if I wanna have the freedom to create this. And so Uh, my thing is always that when you have that message, it's not set in stone. Like, you don't have to do this for the rest of your life, but and here's the caveat. Stick with it for six to twelve months. Right? Six to twelve months in the grand scheme of things is tiny. But if you can stick to it Um, and build momentum and get clients and have that money coming in so that you can see that your business is sustainable, then what that means is then you have the Space, the creativity to be able to kind of think, oh, I wonder what else I can do? Or how can I, like, broaden this out? And I think you're right in that people try and scale too quickly or you know? And I get a lot of people saying to me, like, you know, Will you show me how to create a course? Because I just wanna sell a course. And I'll be like, so have you done this work with one on one clients? And they're like, no. I don't wanna do one on one. And I said, do you know what? I really recommend working one on one with clients to prove your process. Like, I wrote my book. Uh, when I wrote my book, I had written it for, like, oh god, over, like, a couple of years. And I was, like, writing little bits here and little bits there and everything, And I sent it off to an editor. This was back in twenty eighteen. So I sent it off to the edit an editor at the beginning of that year. I turned forty that year, so I was like, this is gonna be my year to publish my And so I sent it off and she came back with all these questions and I reread what I had sent her and I went, this is rubbish. This is absolute rubbish. And I threw the whole lot away. Right? And I rewrote the book in a month. Okay? And so I wrote, I think it was thirty five thousand words in a month. And I was just like, Okay. What made it easy for me to be able to write that book? Because I literally created a structure, had all the headlines so that when I wake up at six o'clock in the morning because I still was working three hours a day. But when I wake up at six o'clock in the morning and I'd write for a couple of hours before the kids got up, I knew I was gonna write. I knew what I wanted to say. And that clarity only came because I had been doing the work with clients one on one. Right? And so when you try and create a course, I'm just I'm gonna sell it evergreen. You don't know it's proven. You don't know that your strategy is working. You don't know if your webinar's working. You're literally just kind of It's almost like I just wanna build it, push it out there, and then that's it. I don't have to think about it because that's kind of the myth that we're told about passive income. Right? But but none of that is proven. And, yeah, do you know what? It's a pain. We you know, everyone has to do it, but you wanna know that what you teach works. And so I think that feeling of, like, I just wanna get there without having done this. I'm a big fan of Abraham Hicks. One of the things that they always talk about, you know, they talk about law of attraction and things. One of the things they always talk about is that you can't have an unhappy journey and have a happy ending. Right? Because everyone wants to get to that happy ending, but they're gonna be, like, miserable throughout because they're like, I hate doing this, and I hate doing this, I don't wanna do this, and I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna do market research. I don't wanna do blah blah blah. Right? But the problem is that, you know, you've gotta go through that experience. You might as well make fun to begin with. But I think that that's the piece that people just feel like I'm gonna get pigeonholed. If I tell people to, like, tell me who your ideal client is, Oh, but I could work with everybody. That's like, I know you can. I know you can. But if you focus on the people that you can get a result for quickly, That's gonna help to, you know, build your business up. You know, you I think we we see big names like the Tony Robbins And you think, oh, well, look at they talk about all sorts of different things. I said, but they didn't start off that way. Gary Vaynerchuk was talking about wine. Tony Robbins started curing phobias like god knows how many years ago. And so so nobody starts being broad and I think that, you know, you to build you a name for yourself. And I think that this is the the lovely thing because in my business like my website for example has always been my name. It's never Not been like, you know, a a business name. It's always just been my name. But as you go through and you evolve, people follow you. It might not necessarily be your message. So just the same as, you know, as the one who started following Tony Robbins. They probably just carry on following them even though What they offer changes. I said, so don't be afraid that you're gonna lose people, but just get really clear on what is it that you're trying to create here. Yeah. Anka.
Anke:
00:23:21
But I'm still in the mood. My goal is so true. Like, we I mean, Yeah. You see it all the time. And I must say, um, I do remember, you know, Coming out of coach training with this sense, like, what I've learned here really allows me to help Anybody with anything. Right? So I do get it. Like, I was that person too. Right? And and I was you know? And I always hate hate with with a passion to be shoved in the tech corner. I hate it when I'm introduced. Oh, she's a tech girl. Right? It's like five percent of what I can do, you know, and I hate to be pigeonholed like that. So that's why I've wrestled with the tech monster for a long time. Right? Because I don't wanna be there because it's like but I think what people forget is that you get to define the parameters of what that space is. Right? I think the only thing that's that's important is that the person who it's for goes, oh my god. That's for me. That's the important thing. It doesn't have to mean it's narrow. Right? I think you just need to get creative in how that's why I don't Talk about taming the tech monster a lot these days because I'm sick and tired of being the tech girl. She's just tech. Right? Yeah. I like, that's, like, literally, like, what you were Same. When when you you know, when people came to you and like, yeah. How do I reels on do we reels on Instagram? Like, it doesn't matter. It's irrelevant, and all the other stuff is right. But I think it's like you get to create how you wanna define your parameters. And I remember I had, Um, what's his name? Matt Johnson on my podcast once, and he wrote micro famous. His whole thing is micro famous. And he said something that really, oh, cracked my mind open to this whole thing. He says, well, you know, like, creatives always get a little antsy When you tell them to narrow down that much, and he goes, well, but you get to scratch your creative itch by going deep. I'm like, oh, that made sense to me. Like, you know? And I think it's like whatever it is for somebody, you need to find your way. You find you need to find your own way, right, to to to be the person people go, oh my god. I need that. You know? And it can be if you manage, if you can pull it off and be a wide audience because you solve a narrow problem or you solve a wider problem for a very specific audience or any combination of Between the two, you know, as long as somebody goes, oh, you need to speak to so and so when they hear what you do, you're good. Right? It doesn't have to mean You have to talk about Google Sheets for the rest of your life. You know? Yeah. And a lot and, yeah, and I mean, that seems to be exactly your experience too.
Yasmin:
00:26:13
Right? I I remember when I was gonna say I was gonna say a mentor years ago told me, um, that, you know, when you're thinking about your niche or you're thinking about the problem that you solve is, You know, make it an inch wide, but a mile deep. And, you know, one of the I mean, like, I created tiny, tiny, big results, but I didn't really understand that. And I thought, okay. But I'm focusing on this problem that a lot of people have is that they don't have a lot of time. But the thing that I can do within that umbrella concept are massive. Like, so so many of the things that I talk about yeah. I talk about the messaging. But I talk about you know, I kinda work with people, Helping them to craft their magnetic marketing statement, but then I'm helping them to turn their message into multiple streams of income. I'm also showing them how to share that message Through ways like webinars, uh, building trust funnels. So then that brings in automation, and that also then helps people with tiny time. So there's such a richness to what I can do and what I can offer, but I don't feel like I'm being limited Because I'm still talking about the problem that someone's saying, oh, I've only got a few hours a day for my business. And so I'm just showing them these are all the things that's gonna make your life So much easier. And so they're like, oh, that makes sense. So I because I completely I mean, I'm the same. Like, I have this kind of inner rebel, but as soon as anybody tells me what I can't do Or they try and pigeonhole me. I'm like, no. And I wanna fight out of it. But when it's in business, like, I love this idea of the the micro famous, you know, it's like be Famous for the people that you really wanna serve. And, you know, most people start there, and then they become, like, more mainstream. But a lot of people, they're like, I don't wanna go. I don't wanna go mainstream. You know? I just wanna stay in, you know, my little, uh, my little niche. I,
Angela:
00:28:00
um, it reminds me of a couple of things actually that that that really helped me here, and then I just wanna dive into a couple more mistakes is, An old mentor of mine, Matthew Pollard, had a way of really helping me to understand this at the start my journey when I was struggling to choose between one thing and another. Um, the first thing he said, you know, start with one and then branch out just as we've you've been saying here. But he called it. He said he said everything has to have a gateway at the beginning. He said, you know, if you open the gateway or your front door, And I suddenly got it. I got that a specific message or a specific offer, even if it wasn't everything that I could do, was the gateway that the majority, maybe eighty percent of people were going to probably, oh, knock on that particular door to come through. And it just made me think about when you're talking about the depth there and the wide. You said when you're working with somebody one to one, You probably will actually bring in so many more skills to the table. So this idea of I just wanna get a course up generally because people are struggling to sell one to one, and we haven't actually got to the point where we found that. And I don't think there's any route around each other than actually just settling down and starting to to to make to to make some moves in that direction. Um, you do bring so much more of yourself to table when you work one to one with people. You're going to go deep and wide in that one to one, uh, relationship. What I've noticed when I have been asked to speak to corporate or other things when it's group or maybe the one to many approach is that this idea of micro niching and micro famous is more important than anything. Because out there, when when you're speaking to many people, Again, like the Google Sheets, there's just the idea that you can be that broad when there's so many other people out there taking a version of that is I think Tad Hargreaves, the the the guy who runs marketing for hippies, had said, There's a sense of lack of humility to think that we actually can even serve everybody and that actually everybody even wants to be served by us, which I think is another slightly different nuance on the whole take, really. But, you know, for instance, when people are asking me what I'm gonna speak on, And then there's several other people going into that organization speaking about it. Those are the bits where I start to narrow in even more than I've ever done before. I start to shave off So much stuff that I would probably still do one to one with people, but you can't do if you actually are doing one to many. So the interesting thing to me is that If you are still struggling with where to pin the tail on the donkey to some degree, then actually going one Going one to many is not your place to go yet. Mhmm. Going one to one and learning how to go deep with people and finding the most Commonalities and the nuances and the things that you want to be about, that to me seems to be the best place to Actually, pin your tail on the donkey. And, yeah, that's the the hardest thing for people to do, isn't it? Get in front of a conversation with people, Share their message. Share what they're about. Ask for the business and get a yes or a no. You know? So, um, so In terms of messaging, what else do you see people coming to you? You know, either uh, greatly or or or indirectly that not having a clear message, you know, prevents them from doing all the big mistakes that they're making.
Yasmin:
00:31:36
I think it's quite interesting because this kind of nicely follows on from what you were just saying about, you know, where this it's like this hesitation to do the one on one, and they wanna go straight to the one to many. And what I find is when I'm trying to help people, say, craft their statement, their marketing message, and they're like, but every client is so different. Every client is So unique. And I went, okay. But just bear with me on this. There will be commonalities throughout all of those people. I think that, you know, especially if you're trying to go one to many, if you can't find those commonalities, you're not going to be able to create something that is going to resonate with that ideal client. So think that's a really important point that, um, and and I find that when someone's trying to craft their marketing message based on the people that they've already worked with, I think that that adds another layer of a challenge because, let's face it, in business, we're all scrappy to begin with, You know, in terms of, like, we'll work with anybody. You know? Anybody who says yes, we'll work with them. So what tends to happen is that we have quite a broad Group of clients. And then we get no. Then you're trying to cope with this marketing message and they go, well, this person needed help with this and this person needed help with with this person. And they're trying to bring them all together. And sometimes that doesn't work because they all did come from different ways. And your messaging Might have, like, flexed with each group of people. And so when you're trying to come up with your message, I'm always thinking about, like, okay. But who do you really love working with? What's the problem that you love to solve and that you could solve all day long? So I had a client recently. She's a hypnotherapist, and I said and, like, a hypnotherapist can help with so many different things. Like, I'm a qualified hypnotherapist, so I was like, there's lots of different things I can help But I specialize in using the hypnosis with people getting, uh, you know, rock solid confidence in what they do and so helping them to really get any of the blocks that they have. So this particular client was talking about anxiety and, you know, and then she was like, but this this person wants to help with this and this person wants to With this, and I said, you know, what would it mean to you or how would it feel to you if for the next six to twelve months, you just worked with people who suffered with anxiety? That you became a real master at working with those clients and getting them amazing results because you were seeing the same type of problem over and over again. So you were getting really, really good at that? And she's like, yeah. I I think that would be good. I think I'd be really good at that. And I said, and then you'd find different ways to help People with anxiety. So you're becoming a master at that rather than, okay, now I've got someone with who wants to quit smoking. Now I've got someone who wants to lose weight. Now I've got Someone who's afraid of flying, and you're trying to you're trying to fit with all of those people. And so I think that that's the big thing that really get clear on Who it is that you'd love to work with over and over and over again? So you're not working with that same person, but you're working with versions of that person Over and over and over again because that's where you're gonna have fun, you're gonna enjoy yourself, and you're gonna get so much better, and that's gonna grow your confidence as well. And you could become known for that, and that's really powerful. And I love what you were saying about, you know, it is the gateway. Like, I often use the example of, like, you know, if you were walking down your town's high street, main street, wherever, and, you know, you've got all these shop windows, You know? And you know that there's the bakery. I can get my bread there, and there's the butchers. I can get my meat there, and then you come to a shop. And you know when the shop is closed and, like, you've got all that smear so that nobody can see in. A lot of people's messages are like that smear. Right? Because they can't see in. They're like, not sure what that is. Right. But if you've got that specific issue that you can say, this is what I'm dealing with, they opened the door. Now they're in. You can wow them with your brilliance and all the other things, but if you can't get them through the door, you're not gonna be able to do anything with them. Know? And I think that's always the challenge is that when someone is afraid that they're narrowing themselves, it's like but if you don't get them through the door, not gonna be able to do all of that anyway.
Angela:
00:35:46
Yeah. I think there's a big difference, isn't there, between narrowing your own growth versus narrowing your niche so that you can actually grow. Big, big difference. Anke, before we, um, Start to do a bit of a wrap up here. Anything that you've got kind of brewing in your mind? Because I can see a couple of smiles going on
Anke:
00:36:09
there. Yeah. I mean, I'm just fascinating how universal these these situations are, right, and how often it happens and how we've kinda all been there in a way. Right? And I think it is that I always like, um, Sean De Souza who says, well, you know, don't don't Don't go and look for your passion. Go out and do things so that your passion can find you. Because what you were just saying, you know, Like, oh, you know, got all these different people. And I think, you know, I I was that person too who was like, oh, yeah. But they all kinda need different things, and I don't have A process. I was always just like, yeah. I don't have a process. And, you know, it took a few, you know, a few more One to one clients, then you usually imagine to be able to to spot the patterns because they are there. Right? Even if you're you know, and I think That's the that's the key point, and I totally agree that you don't want to skip to the because a lot of people don't really want to build businesses. I think that's what it comes down to. They just want have, like, a fountain that can turn up and, you know, can have some money coming in, but they don't really want a business. So when it's like, it's gonna be all passive, you know, and I think that's a Pretty tough tough order, but, uh, yeah, you know, having some fun in the process by concentrating on what we love doing. Yeah. Couldn't it be
Yasmin:
00:37:26
more? And I think I mean, everything that I've said, I've done it all. Like, I've literally made all of these mistakes. So, you know, when I talk about, like, oh, I'm gonna do passive income. That was me. You know, I I have done all of these things. So, you know, if anybody's watching this and they're, like, kinda going, oh my god. I'm like, you're in good company because I've done all of these mistakes. I've made them all. And you know what? I've made those mistakes over and over again as well. It's not like as if I just did it once and then learned from it. You know? It's I think that we you know, it's like what you were saying, Anke, about the universality of it. But also I think that there's great comfort in that because think so often as solopreneur, like I'm here in my home office and you know I think I'm the only one going through this challenge. And then I realized, actually, there's loads of people that are going through the same challenge, and I think that's really comforting as well.
Angela:
00:38:17
Yeah. I think I think that's so true. It leads really nicely onto just this bit about, Where can people start with you? There's what I love about this is that there's there's a couple of ways that people start. If you're listening to this, some of you are gonna love Yasmin, and some of them are gonna love us. And that's perfectly perfect. So in the links, when we finish here, we'll have some links to, um, the webinar that we've done, selling the invisible, and we're gonna have some links for Yasmin's, uh, work and her mistakes. So you might wanna dive deeper into either one of those. But what's one hopeful thing if people are sitting there going, oh my goodness me. You mean I need to just to sort of stop racing and settle down and start thinking about this stuff or working it out. Um, I mean, I I certainly have just sort of thought about twenty twenty four. Um, and for me, I realized that so much of it was just Double down on what works and, um, and keep as in as in going deeper and keep building. It's It's such a temptation to start throwing everything out and trying to start all over again. And I think all we do is we just start the seeds in the ground, whatever seeds have had in the ground even if they've had little mistakes and they got a couple of weeds up around them. What hopefulness or step forward can you Give them right now as well as downloading anything that that you've got that can help people to see where they are, that maybe there is some progress on what to do to make the shifts instead of just throwing everything up in the air and starting all from scratch because they think they haven't got it right. I think
Yasmin:
00:40:07
the one of the most important things I've really learned over the years, and it's a work in progress continual work in progress, It's really feeling to your body. Stop letting your head rule everything and tell you what to do because that's where a lot of frustration can be where you're like, I got I got to figure this out. And it's like you you think and you think and you think and you're like, you can't think your way to the solution. So it's very much about feeling which way is your body going, you know, and your body will give you those clues where something feels like you know when someone said something to you and you go like, I read an email this morning, and it was all about how You know, it's okay to, you know, do what you want to do. You can go against mainstream marketing advice, and it was like I read it, and I was like, uh, because part of my well, a huge part of my life has always been about being the rebel, always being about doing things that other people Would be like, oh god. I can't believe you've done that. Like and my personal example is I always use the example of, like, you know, like, fourteen years ago, I married my husband, and he's Catholic. I'm Muslim. And, And, you know, everyone was, like, saying you can't do that. You can't do that and all this kind of stuff. And I was like, I've always gone against the grain. And yet when it comes to business, I've always played it safe. And so for me, it's like when you get those moments where you kinda go but what or I also would say with that is that's not an you to be able to say, I I'm just gonna sit back, and it's just all gonna come to me. Right? You still have to get visible. People still have to know that you're there. They it's about how you do it that makes a big difference. So it's really about, you know, for me, the hope is That when you tune into your own intuition and you really understand why you're doing things and why you're not doing certain things, Then that really helps to give you that that in the wisdom, I suppose. And I love the analogy of the seeds, um, you know, because I often heard this story about, like, the Seed medler. You know, when you go and plant the seeds, you know, we don't, the next day, go out and go, right. Okay. Dig them up and go. What why are you not growing? Yeah. We don't do that. You know, if we were planting, you know, potatoes or whatever, we don't do that with our fruit and our produce. We do that with our ideas. Right? We go in there. The next day, we're, like, meddling with them again and, like, planting them again. It's like, well, why don't we just water them? Why don't we just, you know, energetically, mentally, emotionally, why don't we just water them and feed them and do all of those things? And, you know, I think it's and I know I've been guilty of this in my business. It's been very much about the short term. It's like, okay. So what's gonna bring the money in this month? What's gonna bring the money in next month? And And instead, let's be more deliberate and more long term thinking about, okay. So what do I wanna see in the business this time next year? So how do I make that happen? What are the things that I need to do in order to put that into place? Because, you know, Anka, you were saying that a lot of people don't wanna have a business. They just wanna have that money coming in, but the money will I mean, this is where I think the coaching industry can really be very dangerous Because people are always going on about back money, back money, back money, back money all the time. But if you're doing that all the time, it's exhausting. It burns you out. So then you think, okay. How can I make this be more sustainable? Right? Instead of looking at all the big numbers in your business, know, it's like people talking about fifty k a month. If you're not making two k a month, stop looking at the fifty k and go for five k or go for the two k And incrementally build it up. Stop hijacking your nervous system and making you think I've gotta make fifty k. Otherwise, I'm a failure. No. You're gonna go, okay. I've made two k. Oh, I made three k. Oh, I made four k. And feel how expansive that is in your body. So it's like I I think for me, the hope is, like, cut out the noise, cut out all that crap that's out there, and just really get clear on what it is that you want in your business.
Angela:
00:44:16
I love that. Thank you so much. I think that is it's a permission. It's one of the things that we've said all the time. It's permission to trust yourself. And I think the phrase that I often use is be kind to yourself but not the kind that leads to excuses. Yeah, I love it. Exactly what you are that's exactly what you're talking about. It's the it's the it's the self compassion, and it's the self awareness at the same time to recognize when we're using that as a creative avoidance because we're frightened of something. And I love that around again, everything starting small, starting, are you making five hundred pounds? Are you making one thousand? And turn off it's like unsubscribe. Obviously, not to Yasmin or or Anka and I because that would be defeating the object. But Thank you for, uh, tuning in today, and we have got the links that will be in the bottom for, uh, Yasmin and Arun. Yeah. I've
Yasmin:
00:45:06
got the ten message mistakes download. I forgot to mention that. The ten message mistakes. So and what I am a big fan of is I'll show you what not to do, but then I will show you what to do as well. Then I also have my, uh, book, Tiny, Tiny Big Results. Um, you can get that on Amazon and a Kindle and a paperback. So if you're interested in learning about how to build that business in twenty hours a week or less, the book will tell you everything. And we
Angela:
00:45:27
will have the link because that's exactly what you need. I think that's part of where the message is. Because if you can get that right, then you're probably not wasting another three hours in the meantime this week. So until next time, thanks, Yasmin, for joining us. It was a really rich conversation. Um, and, uh, take care.
Yasmin:
00:45:45
Thank you, Angela. Thank you, Anka. Bye. Take
Anke:
00:45:48
care. Bye bye.
undefined:
00:45:50
Thanks for tuning in to the Visible Coaches Podcast. If you've ever felt the pressure to market yourself in ways that don't align with your true nature, this podcast is your sanctuary. If you've enjoyed what you've heard so far, make sure to subscribe. To the Visible Coaches Podcast on your favorite platform, and we would really be grateful if you could leave us a review. Your feedback means the world to us, and it helps us reach more introverted coaches like you. To grab this episode's free resource, visit the visible coaches podcast.com. Now. That's thevisiblecoachespodcast. com. Let's continue to embrace our introverted strength, create meaningful connections, and make waves in the coaching world. Until next time.
00:00:01
Welcome to the Visible Coaches podcast. I'm Angela Durant, and you'll meet Anke Herrmann a little later. Between us, we have 30 years of business experience. We've started and grown our businesses from nothing but an idea, learning to play to our strengths as introverts. See in what often feels like an extrovert world. If you have ever felt any resistance to how others tell you you have to market yourself or bury your soul on social media just to get clients, then this podcast is for you. We know the unique challenges that introverted coaches face when it comes to selling their services. So if you're ready to learn how to spot those golden opportunities right under your nose, clarify your message, nurture that market, and get more business coming your way. All without sacrificing your energy levels or well being, then plug your AirPods in and let's go!
Angela:
00:00:53
Well, welcome to the Visible Coaches podcast with Angela and Anka, and I am very happy today to introduce you to a new guest, Yasmin Varadji. Now Yasmin and I go back, gosh, way too long. And isn't that a beautiful thing, actually, that you meet on many courses or masterminds. And you follow each other's journey or you're in the same neck of the woods or sometimes you go in different directions. But Yasmin and I Both share a passion for messaging. And I wanted to bring her onto the podcast today so that we could talk about messaging mistakes. And you're so used to hearing from Anke and I. We thought it would be lovely to bring a different voice into the messaging conversation. So welcome, uh, Yasmin. How are you doing?
Yasmin:
00:01:38
That's great. Thank you. I'm very well and thank you for having me on Angela and Anka. Thank you.
Angela:
00:01:43
Lovely. So what would be fantastic is And I know you've written a book as well around tiny time. Do you wanna just share your journey just a little bit as to how it's evolved into messaging from from where you've gone and why maybe you even took that direction.
Yasmin:
00:01:57
Mhmm. Sure. So I've been in business for about eleven years now, and I started my business, Um, when I had finished up in corporate, so I was made redundant at the end of twenty eleven. And I live in rural northwest Ireland, So getting a similar kind of a corporate job was just not gonna be a goer. Um, I had a fifteen month old at the time And I didn't wanna be a commuter mom. And so I thought, right. I'm gonna just dive in. I'm gonna start my own business. I always wanted to have a business because I always had this dream of flexibility, especially with family and things. And so I decided to start my own business. But I only ever really had, like, three to four hours a day. Like, my son would have been in crash For three hours a day, and I was getting really fed up to the point where I was like, I don't have enough time to do everything I need to do. And then I had this light bulb moment where I went, well, you wanna have more kids, so you're never gonna have more time. So if this is the amount of time that you've got, how can you make it work? That's really where tiny, tiny, big results came about. It was this idea that, you know, all these entrepreneurs are going on about how you have to work hundred hours a week. And I was, don't even have, you know, fifty hours. I don't even have forty hours. I don't even have full time hours. So I thought, right. Okay. So how do I Instead of telling myself that I'm, you know, don't have enough time, I said, how can I make this work? And that's really where it all started. And it was about Understanding, okay, what's gonna make the move the needle in three hours a day. Now I have he's my eldest is now thirteen. My daughter is ten, and my youngest son is seven. Um, so my business has pretty much always been a tiny time business. It's I've never had more hours. And it's so funny because when my youngest started school when he was five, we decided to get a puppy because we didn't have enough time enough stuff to be doing. So we said, right. We'll get a puppy as well. So yeah. So I've never had more time. And it was interesting because the whole tiny time big results journey has evolved over the years. Like, there's been things that I focused in on and, know, kind of, I suppose, built my own brand around digital products, uh, premium packages, and and really looking for all the different ways that you could make Your business work if you only had a few hours. And what I really discovered was that my kind of secret sauce, my know, zone of genius was really around the messaging because I love getting into it with my clients. And I'm a very straight Forward talking person and people would say to me I'd say to them like, you know, tell me what it is that you do. And somebody would tell me and I'd be like, I have no idea what that is. A lot of coaches, a lot of experts, we get so into our head with jargon, and we we have the curse of too much knowledge. So then they're, like, telling me about unlocking that potential and, you know, this, that, and the other. And I just feel like, I don't know what that means. Because, you know, if you only got, like, few seconds to grab someone's attention. You need your language to be simple. You need it to be impactful. You need it to be persuasive, but simple above everything. You know? And so I discovered that that's kind of really what I was doing with all of my clients was helping them to really nail their messaging And then creating offers that made sense that people wanted to buy. Because I know people talk about irresistible offers. And I said, well, what is an irresistible offer? It's an offer that someone just doesn't wanna say no to. That they're just like, oh my god. Just take my money. Take my money. And, you know, how you name your products, how you talk about what you do, what you know, all of those things. That's all messaging. Oftentimes people say to me, like, Yavin, will you help me with my messaging? And I'll say, what do you mean by messaging? And they were like, you know, my sixty second spiel. And I said, well, that's, like, the first part of your message, but your message is so much more than that. It is layered into Everything is weaved into everything that you do. And that's really where I get really excited because I'd be like, okay. Let's let's talk about everything around messaging. And that's what I really discovered that messaging is the gateway. That if you wanna have that profitable business in twenty hours a week or less, Then you've gotta get the messaging right. I liken it to like, um, a house. You know, if you're building your house and you need that strong foundation I get people saying to me, like, oh, how do I do reels on Instagram? How do I get onto TikTok? How do I do this? How do and I said, well, what are you Talking about and they'll tell me their message. I'm like, well, I don't understand the message. So it doesn't matter the medium. If the message isn't right, Then, you know, once you get that bit right, then you can go forth and distribute it and share your message and everything. But I think a lot of times, we end up putting The cart before the horse and that's what I really wanna wanna help people because I did the same thing. You know, I did the same thing. I was just, like, throwing everything out there and then wondering why nothing was sticking. And I really had to kinda go back to basics first of my story.
Angela:
00:06:46
I love that. In fact, I was laughing, and I I was sitting there. And I know I could see Anka smiling behind the scenes because of so many of the things that we say between. I'm gonna ask you to to come in. But I just wanted to just acknowledge, uh, I think that that whole bit about You really understanding around time and what you had and not trying to make yourself get feel guilty because you had three hours, actually led to you starting to understand the whole messaging idea about how you were gonna really sort of make traction and nail that in a in a better way. So that's that's amazing to me because I think one does feed into the into the other, um, as you do that. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Over to you.
Anke:
00:07:41
Yeah. No. I I mean, I was giggling too because, like, I get these people come To me, for, you know, tech stuff, it's like, oh, what platform should I use? And I'm like, what are you actually trying to do here? Right? So It's like without those foundations in place, without, yeah, nothing else nothing else makes sense. And and I I love that you didn't Go into, like, oh, how can I make myself more time? Because it feels like most people would go down that rabbit hole. Right. And then they're endlessly frustrated because, yeah, you know, if you have one child or more children or puppy, you know, that's never gonna happen. Right? And you're always saying, well, How can I carve out more time? Like, how can I make more with the time I have? Like, that makes so much sense to me. And and I can also see how that would naturally lead to well, yeah. Let's actually dive in what are you actually trying to do here, you know, because if that isn't right, then then none of None of that. None none of the rest matters. Right? So I'm really curious to hear, when your experience, what the biggest mistakes are that people make.
Yasmin:
00:08:49
I think when it comes to messaging, what I find is, first of all, people overcomplicate, right, massively. Um, the messaging can get really long and they just keep talking and talking and talking and talking. They go into their modalities and they're like they or they tell you their life story from when they were five as to how they got to this point. And it's interesting because I mean, I like I'm really bad. Like, because when I meet somebody new and I'll be like, what is it that you do? Because I always wanna know how people talk about what they do. And I'll be like, okay. But the problem is when you talk for too long, people hear the first bit and the last But they've missed all the bits in the middle and they'll be like, um, I'm not a hundred percent sure. And what I found is people really value that feedback when you say to them, you know, and I always I'm always, like, asking for permission first. It's like, okay. I have some thoughts about what you've just said. Can I share them with you? And they go, yeah. Actually, you know, Because I've been in many courses and programs where, you know, the course leader or the mentor has been like, yeah. That's good. And it hasn't been good. And I'd be like, well, I want someone to actually call me up on it. I remember I did this program, uh, quite recently, and I remember saying like, okay, I'm gonna do this webinar, and this what the title's gonna be and, you know and she was like, yeah. Well, that's good and everything. And then it didn't go as well as I would've liked it to. And she was like, well, I wouldn't have gone with that title, and I wouldn't have gone with that. And I was just like, wow. That would have been really useful to know, you know, like, a month ago. And so for me, that was like, I don't wanna be that mentor. I don't wanna be that coach that's gonna, like, say, yeah, Angela. That sounds great. Amazing. Go and do that. And then they come back and go and then I go, well, like, always had my doubts anyway, and I didn't think it was gonna work. You know? So I think that when it comes to messaging, I mean, and this is a big one, right? I think people overthink their message. Right? They overthink it to the point where they are paralyzed into inaction, that they won't do anything at all. And that paralysis is so dangerous because you'll just go round and round in your And you can't create that clarity in your head. You actually have to get out there and and physically, like, put something out there and see what People respond to whether people go, oh, wow. That's me. Um, and because we're in this bid to get this perfect message, I know this is certainly what I would have said to myself if I was starting again in my business. I'd be like, pick one thing, pick a problem that you solve, And just go and do that. Just talk about that. I was reading a really great article yesterday about how this guy has built up this amazing business. And what he teaches is around Google Sheets. Like, Google Sheets. I mean, And I thought, god, he could have been sitting there going, god, will I do the whole g suite package? Will I do docs? Will I do this? Will I do that? And he went, no. I'm just gonna do Google Sheets. And I just thought, oh, that's genius. You know? So I do think we overthink it. And I've said that to a few people because what they do is and maybe this is the form of self sabotage. Although I do, uh, heard someone say like I don't believe in self sabotage. We're getting a benefit from staying stuck from where we are because there's a reason why we're there. And so I think that sometimes people use messaging confusion as a way of staying ducks so they don't have to put themselves out there. Because when once you have a message, You gotta get visible. You gotta get people, you know, talking about what it is that you do. You gotta get in front of people. And and I'm not saying that you have to get in front of Thousands and thousands of people, but even a few people, a handful of people. And a lot of people don't wanna do that because they're like, oh, they're gonna be judging me and all that kind of stuff. So I think there's a lot of different things that people do with messaging. I think that if I was to look at someone's message, I think the key things I'm looking for is, Is it too broad? Is it generic? Is it vague? Like, the what I will see as a real magnetic message is where it's specific and it's tangible. Like, that somebody can really see what the result is that someone's gonna get. So, like, if you were the guy that was selling Courses about Google Sheets that's really tangible. And I think that people think that the more you know, like, When they talk about self actualization or, like, finding your life's purpose, and I think that doesn't sell Because it is so out there. Um, if there are other pressing needs for that person, and I heard this Re explained very, very well recently, and I never thought of it in this way. But if you think of, like, Maslow's hierarchy of needs and you think about, like, you know, the The pyramid where, you know, at the bottom, you've got, like, your physiological needs. You've got your safety needs. You've got your love and belonging. You've got your connection. And then right at the top is self actualization. But if your client is struggling with physiological needs, They see that they're like, oh, where's the money gonna come from? Or am I gonna get a new job? Am I gonna get that promotion? Whatever it might be. They don't really care about self They're not thinking about, like, how can I be all who I am meant to be? Because they've got other things that are Pressing on them. And that's why they will go and invest with that coach who talks to those needs rather than the person who is like, You know, I want you to be all that you can be. Like, I get a lot of women coming to me where they talk about, you know, I really wanna help women who are, You know, moms, and they're losing themselves, and they're working, and, you know, they need to practice self care. And I said, yeah. But do you know what? I'm, like, I'm that mom. I've got three kids. I've got a business. I don't sit there thinking, god. I really wish I could just practice some self care. That's not a pressing need for me. So if it's by the way, you do a giggling. But if it's not a pressing need for me, I ain't gonna invest. I'm gonna invest in the things that will allow me to be able to create time for self care, but don't sell the self care to me. Yeah. I love it.
Angela:
00:14:59
I love it. I love what you're saying because it's it's everything that we say coming out from a different voice, which is exactly why we were why and also just just so that people are aware, it's, you know, it's like, gosh. Well, isn't that the competition? Yes and no. It's Absolutely vital that we get many voices. Sometimes we'll get it if somebody says it one way and somebody says it the other. Uh, a couple of things that you mentioned there that just sparked off an idea as to why people and confused this message because I think there is some level of process that's gone on. I've recognized it in myself where it's taken a while to really, shall we say, evolve and hone the niche. I think you're absolutely right in picking one problem and go with it. The biggest challenge that I hear from that is that people don't want to be pigeonholed. And the problem is is they're pigeonholing themselves too soon. I was on a call very much this morning, actually, with somebody starting off a new idea and a new venture. She'd done one of it. And the next question was, well, what shall I charge? And what, uh, you know, about Scalability. And I could just feel the problem, this mushrooming idea that that that the reality is we needed to sit with it And stick with it a little bit longer than we often want to in order to actually get that nuance, in order to really see, well, Where's the sweet swap spot between what's the one thing that I could continue to teach and not get bored of it right now for the next three, six months, even twelve months. Um, what what's the market, as you say, really need me to Focus in on and respond to, and then what's the service that's gonna link the two together. So it just made me think about All of the times when, actually, I think sometimes people they're either in the bit that you talked about with self actualization, I thought that of they're either in trying to find a client where they are personally developing themselves right now rather than actually where the client is so they're trying to find people almost to journey with and then pay them for it rather than their Skills and their experience and what's a tangible benefit to people that probably some way behind them in the marketplace right now. Um, and this this time sometimes, it does actually take a little bit of working with a few people and a bit of nuance. Would you agree with me? I just think that's sometimes where the problem is that people are trying to go to you know, we need a clear message in some form, and it evolves. And if it's still confusion, trying to scale confusion in a marketing channel is not going to make more people come and Pay
Yasmin:
00:18:03
you, I think. A hundred percent. I completely agree. And I think that that's when people say, like, I don't wanna be pigeonholed. And I said, would you wanna make money? Because if you want to create like, get clients coming in I'm not saying that money is the be all and end all but it's a business so you think okay. And that's their normal challenge. Like, it really frustrates me when people say things like, I'm not motivated by money. Mhmm. And yet in the same breath, they'll be like, well, I can't afford that Or I can't pay for that, whatever it might be. Right? So, you know, it's we are all motivated by money because we wanna bring money in, And that's one of our goals. It's because it's about financial freedom and independence and all that kind of good stuff. As someone who worked in corporate for twelve years, I'm like, yeah. Do you know what? You know what it's like when you're working for your money, and then you think, okay, if I wanna have the freedom to create this. And so Uh, my thing is always that when you have that message, it's not set in stone. Like, you don't have to do this for the rest of your life, but and here's the caveat. Stick with it for six to twelve months. Right? Six to twelve months in the grand scheme of things is tiny. But if you can stick to it Um, and build momentum and get clients and have that money coming in so that you can see that your business is sustainable, then what that means is then you have the Space, the creativity to be able to kind of think, oh, I wonder what else I can do? Or how can I, like, broaden this out? And I think you're right in that people try and scale too quickly or you know? And I get a lot of people saying to me, like, you know, Will you show me how to create a course? Because I just wanna sell a course. And I'll be like, so have you done this work with one on one clients? And they're like, no. I don't wanna do one on one. And I said, do you know what? I really recommend working one on one with clients to prove your process. Like, I wrote my book. Uh, when I wrote my book, I had written it for, like, oh god, over, like, a couple of years. And I was, like, writing little bits here and little bits there and everything, And I sent it off to an editor. This was back in twenty eighteen. So I sent it off to the edit an editor at the beginning of that year. I turned forty that year, so I was like, this is gonna be my year to publish my And so I sent it off and she came back with all these questions and I reread what I had sent her and I went, this is rubbish. This is absolute rubbish. And I threw the whole lot away. Right? And I rewrote the book in a month. Okay? And so I wrote, I think it was thirty five thousand words in a month. And I was just like, Okay. What made it easy for me to be able to write that book? Because I literally created a structure, had all the headlines so that when I wake up at six o'clock in the morning because I still was working three hours a day. But when I wake up at six o'clock in the morning and I'd write for a couple of hours before the kids got up, I knew I was gonna write. I knew what I wanted to say. And that clarity only came because I had been doing the work with clients one on one. Right? And so when you try and create a course, I'm just I'm gonna sell it evergreen. You don't know it's proven. You don't know that your strategy is working. You don't know if your webinar's working. You're literally just kind of It's almost like I just wanna build it, push it out there, and then that's it. I don't have to think about it because that's kind of the myth that we're told about passive income. Right? But but none of that is proven. And, yeah, do you know what? It's a pain. We you know, everyone has to do it, but you wanna know that what you teach works. And so I think that feeling of, like, I just wanna get there without having done this. I'm a big fan of Abraham Hicks. One of the things that they always talk about, you know, they talk about law of attraction and things. One of the things they always talk about is that you can't have an unhappy journey and have a happy ending. Right? Because everyone wants to get to that happy ending, but they're gonna be, like, miserable throughout because they're like, I hate doing this, and I hate doing this, I don't wanna do this, and I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna do market research. I don't wanna do blah blah blah. Right? But the problem is that, you know, you've gotta go through that experience. You might as well make fun to begin with. But I think that that's the piece that people just feel like I'm gonna get pigeonholed. If I tell people to, like, tell me who your ideal client is, Oh, but I could work with everybody. That's like, I know you can. I know you can. But if you focus on the people that you can get a result for quickly, That's gonna help to, you know, build your business up. You know, you I think we we see big names like the Tony Robbins And you think, oh, well, look at they talk about all sorts of different things. I said, but they didn't start off that way. Gary Vaynerchuk was talking about wine. Tony Robbins started curing phobias like god knows how many years ago. And so so nobody starts being broad and I think that, you know, you to build you a name for yourself. And I think that this is the the lovely thing because in my business like my website for example has always been my name. It's never Not been like, you know, a a business name. It's always just been my name. But as you go through and you evolve, people follow you. It might not necessarily be your message. So just the same as, you know, as the one who started following Tony Robbins. They probably just carry on following them even though What they offer changes. I said, so don't be afraid that you're gonna lose people, but just get really clear on what is it that you're trying to create here. Yeah. Anka.
Anke:
00:23:21
But I'm still in the mood. My goal is so true. Like, we I mean, Yeah. You see it all the time. And I must say, um, I do remember, you know, Coming out of coach training with this sense, like, what I've learned here really allows me to help Anybody with anything. Right? So I do get it. Like, I was that person too. Right? And and I was you know? And I always hate hate with with a passion to be shoved in the tech corner. I hate it when I'm introduced. Oh, she's a tech girl. Right? It's like five percent of what I can do, you know, and I hate to be pigeonholed like that. So that's why I've wrestled with the tech monster for a long time. Right? Because I don't wanna be there because it's like but I think what people forget is that you get to define the parameters of what that space is. Right? I think the only thing that's that's important is that the person who it's for goes, oh my god. That's for me. That's the important thing. It doesn't have to mean it's narrow. Right? I think you just need to get creative in how that's why I don't Talk about taming the tech monster a lot these days because I'm sick and tired of being the tech girl. She's just tech. Right? Yeah. I like, that's, like, literally, like, what you were Same. When when you you know, when people came to you and like, yeah. How do I reels on do we reels on Instagram? Like, it doesn't matter. It's irrelevant, and all the other stuff is right. But I think it's like you get to create how you wanna define your parameters. And I remember I had, Um, what's his name? Matt Johnson on my podcast once, and he wrote micro famous. His whole thing is micro famous. And he said something that really, oh, cracked my mind open to this whole thing. He says, well, you know, like, creatives always get a little antsy When you tell them to narrow down that much, and he goes, well, but you get to scratch your creative itch by going deep. I'm like, oh, that made sense to me. Like, you know? And I think it's like whatever it is for somebody, you need to find your way. You find you need to find your own way, right, to to to be the person people go, oh my god. I need that. You know? And it can be if you manage, if you can pull it off and be a wide audience because you solve a narrow problem or you solve a wider problem for a very specific audience or any combination of Between the two, you know, as long as somebody goes, oh, you need to speak to so and so when they hear what you do, you're good. Right? It doesn't have to mean You have to talk about Google Sheets for the rest of your life. You know? Yeah. And a lot and, yeah, and I mean, that seems to be exactly your experience too.
Yasmin:
00:26:13
Right? I I remember when I was gonna say I was gonna say a mentor years ago told me, um, that, you know, when you're thinking about your niche or you're thinking about the problem that you solve is, You know, make it an inch wide, but a mile deep. And, you know, one of the I mean, like, I created tiny, tiny, big results, but I didn't really understand that. And I thought, okay. But I'm focusing on this problem that a lot of people have is that they don't have a lot of time. But the thing that I can do within that umbrella concept are massive. Like, so so many of the things that I talk about yeah. I talk about the messaging. But I talk about you know, I kinda work with people, Helping them to craft their magnetic marketing statement, but then I'm helping them to turn their message into multiple streams of income. I'm also showing them how to share that message Through ways like webinars, uh, building trust funnels. So then that brings in automation, and that also then helps people with tiny time. So there's such a richness to what I can do and what I can offer, but I don't feel like I'm being limited Because I'm still talking about the problem that someone's saying, oh, I've only got a few hours a day for my business. And so I'm just showing them these are all the things that's gonna make your life So much easier. And so they're like, oh, that makes sense. So I because I completely I mean, I'm the same. Like, I have this kind of inner rebel, but as soon as anybody tells me what I can't do Or they try and pigeonhole me. I'm like, no. And I wanna fight out of it. But when it's in business, like, I love this idea of the the micro famous, you know, it's like be Famous for the people that you really wanna serve. And, you know, most people start there, and then they become, like, more mainstream. But a lot of people, they're like, I don't wanna go. I don't wanna go mainstream. You know? I just wanna stay in, you know, my little, uh, my little niche. I,
Angela:
00:28:00
um, it reminds me of a couple of things actually that that that really helped me here, and then I just wanna dive into a couple more mistakes is, An old mentor of mine, Matthew Pollard, had a way of really helping me to understand this at the start my journey when I was struggling to choose between one thing and another. Um, the first thing he said, you know, start with one and then branch out just as we've you've been saying here. But he called it. He said he said everything has to have a gateway at the beginning. He said, you know, if you open the gateway or your front door, And I suddenly got it. I got that a specific message or a specific offer, even if it wasn't everything that I could do, was the gateway that the majority, maybe eighty percent of people were going to probably, oh, knock on that particular door to come through. And it just made me think about when you're talking about the depth there and the wide. You said when you're working with somebody one to one, You probably will actually bring in so many more skills to the table. So this idea of I just wanna get a course up generally because people are struggling to sell one to one, and we haven't actually got to the point where we found that. And I don't think there's any route around each other than actually just settling down and starting to to to make to to make some moves in that direction. Um, you do bring so much more of yourself to table when you work one to one with people. You're going to go deep and wide in that one to one, uh, relationship. What I've noticed when I have been asked to speak to corporate or other things when it's group or maybe the one to many approach is that this idea of micro niching and micro famous is more important than anything. Because out there, when when you're speaking to many people, Again, like the Google Sheets, there's just the idea that you can be that broad when there's so many other people out there taking a version of that is I think Tad Hargreaves, the the the guy who runs marketing for hippies, had said, There's a sense of lack of humility to think that we actually can even serve everybody and that actually everybody even wants to be served by us, which I think is another slightly different nuance on the whole take, really. But, you know, for instance, when people are asking me what I'm gonna speak on, And then there's several other people going into that organization speaking about it. Those are the bits where I start to narrow in even more than I've ever done before. I start to shave off So much stuff that I would probably still do one to one with people, but you can't do if you actually are doing one to many. So the interesting thing to me is that If you are still struggling with where to pin the tail on the donkey to some degree, then actually going one Going one to many is not your place to go yet. Mhmm. Going one to one and learning how to go deep with people and finding the most Commonalities and the nuances and the things that you want to be about, that to me seems to be the best place to Actually, pin your tail on the donkey. And, yeah, that's the the hardest thing for people to do, isn't it? Get in front of a conversation with people, Share their message. Share what they're about. Ask for the business and get a yes or a no. You know? So, um, so In terms of messaging, what else do you see people coming to you? You know, either uh, greatly or or or indirectly that not having a clear message, you know, prevents them from doing all the big mistakes that they're making.
Yasmin:
00:31:36
I think it's quite interesting because this kind of nicely follows on from what you were just saying about, you know, where this it's like this hesitation to do the one on one, and they wanna go straight to the one to many. And what I find is when I'm trying to help people, say, craft their statement, their marketing message, and they're like, but every client is so different. Every client is So unique. And I went, okay. But just bear with me on this. There will be commonalities throughout all of those people. I think that, you know, especially if you're trying to go one to many, if you can't find those commonalities, you're not going to be able to create something that is going to resonate with that ideal client. So think that's a really important point that, um, and and I find that when someone's trying to craft their marketing message based on the people that they've already worked with, I think that that adds another layer of a challenge because, let's face it, in business, we're all scrappy to begin with, You know, in terms of, like, we'll work with anybody. You know? Anybody who says yes, we'll work with them. So what tends to happen is that we have quite a broad Group of clients. And then we get no. Then you're trying to cope with this marketing message and they go, well, this person needed help with this and this person needed help with with this person. And they're trying to bring them all together. And sometimes that doesn't work because they all did come from different ways. And your messaging Might have, like, flexed with each group of people. And so when you're trying to come up with your message, I'm always thinking about, like, okay. But who do you really love working with? What's the problem that you love to solve and that you could solve all day long? So I had a client recently. She's a hypnotherapist, and I said and, like, a hypnotherapist can help with so many different things. Like, I'm a qualified hypnotherapist, so I was like, there's lots of different things I can help But I specialize in using the hypnosis with people getting, uh, you know, rock solid confidence in what they do and so helping them to really get any of the blocks that they have. So this particular client was talking about anxiety and, you know, and then she was like, but this this person wants to help with this and this person wants to With this, and I said, you know, what would it mean to you or how would it feel to you if for the next six to twelve months, you just worked with people who suffered with anxiety? That you became a real master at working with those clients and getting them amazing results because you were seeing the same type of problem over and over again. So you were getting really, really good at that? And she's like, yeah. I I think that would be good. I think I'd be really good at that. And I said, and then you'd find different ways to help People with anxiety. So you're becoming a master at that rather than, okay, now I've got someone with who wants to quit smoking. Now I've got someone who wants to lose weight. Now I've got Someone who's afraid of flying, and you're trying to you're trying to fit with all of those people. And so I think that that's the big thing that really get clear on Who it is that you'd love to work with over and over and over again? So you're not working with that same person, but you're working with versions of that person Over and over and over again because that's where you're gonna have fun, you're gonna enjoy yourself, and you're gonna get so much better, and that's gonna grow your confidence as well. And you could become known for that, and that's really powerful. And I love what you were saying about, you know, it is the gateway. Like, I often use the example of, like, you know, if you were walking down your town's high street, main street, wherever, and, you know, you've got all these shop windows, You know? And you know that there's the bakery. I can get my bread there, and there's the butchers. I can get my meat there, and then you come to a shop. And you know when the shop is closed and, like, you've got all that smear so that nobody can see in. A lot of people's messages are like that smear. Right? Because they can't see in. They're like, not sure what that is. Right. But if you've got that specific issue that you can say, this is what I'm dealing with, they opened the door. Now they're in. You can wow them with your brilliance and all the other things, but if you can't get them through the door, you're not gonna be able to do anything with them. Know? And I think that's always the challenge is that when someone is afraid that they're narrowing themselves, it's like but if you don't get them through the door, not gonna be able to do all of that anyway.
Angela:
00:35:46
Yeah. I think there's a big difference, isn't there, between narrowing your own growth versus narrowing your niche so that you can actually grow. Big, big difference. Anke, before we, um, Start to do a bit of a wrap up here. Anything that you've got kind of brewing in your mind? Because I can see a couple of smiles going on
Anke:
00:36:09
there. Yeah. I mean, I'm just fascinating how universal these these situations are, right, and how often it happens and how we've kinda all been there in a way. Right? And I think it is that I always like, um, Sean De Souza who says, well, you know, don't don't Don't go and look for your passion. Go out and do things so that your passion can find you. Because what you were just saying, you know, Like, oh, you know, got all these different people. And I think, you know, I I was that person too who was like, oh, yeah. But they all kinda need different things, and I don't have A process. I was always just like, yeah. I don't have a process. And, you know, it took a few, you know, a few more One to one clients, then you usually imagine to be able to to spot the patterns because they are there. Right? Even if you're you know, and I think That's the that's the key point, and I totally agree that you don't want to skip to the because a lot of people don't really want to build businesses. I think that's what it comes down to. They just want have, like, a fountain that can turn up and, you know, can have some money coming in, but they don't really want a business. So when it's like, it's gonna be all passive, you know, and I think that's a Pretty tough tough order, but, uh, yeah, you know, having some fun in the process by concentrating on what we love doing. Yeah. Couldn't it be
Yasmin:
00:37:26
more? And I think I mean, everything that I've said, I've done it all. Like, I've literally made all of these mistakes. So, you know, when I talk about, like, oh, I'm gonna do passive income. That was me. You know, I I have done all of these things. So, you know, if anybody's watching this and they're, like, kinda going, oh my god. I'm like, you're in good company because I've done all of these mistakes. I've made them all. And you know what? I've made those mistakes over and over again as well. It's not like as if I just did it once and then learned from it. You know? It's I think that we you know, it's like what you were saying, Anke, about the universality of it. But also I think that there's great comfort in that because think so often as solopreneur, like I'm here in my home office and you know I think I'm the only one going through this challenge. And then I realized, actually, there's loads of people that are going through the same challenge, and I think that's really comforting as well.
Angela:
00:38:17
Yeah. I think I think that's so true. It leads really nicely onto just this bit about, Where can people start with you? There's what I love about this is that there's there's a couple of ways that people start. If you're listening to this, some of you are gonna love Yasmin, and some of them are gonna love us. And that's perfectly perfect. So in the links, when we finish here, we'll have some links to, um, the webinar that we've done, selling the invisible, and we're gonna have some links for Yasmin's, uh, work and her mistakes. So you might wanna dive deeper into either one of those. But what's one hopeful thing if people are sitting there going, oh my goodness me. You mean I need to just to sort of stop racing and settle down and start thinking about this stuff or working it out. Um, I mean, I I certainly have just sort of thought about twenty twenty four. Um, and for me, I realized that so much of it was just Double down on what works and, um, and keep as in as in going deeper and keep building. It's It's such a temptation to start throwing everything out and trying to start all over again. And I think all we do is we just start the seeds in the ground, whatever seeds have had in the ground even if they've had little mistakes and they got a couple of weeds up around them. What hopefulness or step forward can you Give them right now as well as downloading anything that that you've got that can help people to see where they are, that maybe there is some progress on what to do to make the shifts instead of just throwing everything up in the air and starting all from scratch because they think they haven't got it right. I think
Yasmin:
00:40:07
the one of the most important things I've really learned over the years, and it's a work in progress continual work in progress, It's really feeling to your body. Stop letting your head rule everything and tell you what to do because that's where a lot of frustration can be where you're like, I got I got to figure this out. And it's like you you think and you think and you think and you're like, you can't think your way to the solution. So it's very much about feeling which way is your body going, you know, and your body will give you those clues where something feels like you know when someone said something to you and you go like, I read an email this morning, and it was all about how You know, it's okay to, you know, do what you want to do. You can go against mainstream marketing advice, and it was like I read it, and I was like, uh, because part of my well, a huge part of my life has always been about being the rebel, always being about doing things that other people Would be like, oh god. I can't believe you've done that. Like and my personal example is I always use the example of, like, you know, like, fourteen years ago, I married my husband, and he's Catholic. I'm Muslim. And, And, you know, everyone was, like, saying you can't do that. You can't do that and all this kind of stuff. And I was like, I've always gone against the grain. And yet when it comes to business, I've always played it safe. And so for me, it's like when you get those moments where you kinda go but what or I also would say with that is that's not an you to be able to say, I I'm just gonna sit back, and it's just all gonna come to me. Right? You still have to get visible. People still have to know that you're there. They it's about how you do it that makes a big difference. So it's really about, you know, for me, the hope is That when you tune into your own intuition and you really understand why you're doing things and why you're not doing certain things, Then that really helps to give you that that in the wisdom, I suppose. And I love the analogy of the seeds, um, you know, because I often heard this story about, like, the Seed medler. You know, when you go and plant the seeds, you know, we don't, the next day, go out and go, right. Okay. Dig them up and go. What why are you not growing? Yeah. We don't do that. You know, if we were planting, you know, potatoes or whatever, we don't do that with our fruit and our produce. We do that with our ideas. Right? We go in there. The next day, we're, like, meddling with them again and, like, planting them again. It's like, well, why don't we just water them? Why don't we just, you know, energetically, mentally, emotionally, why don't we just water them and feed them and do all of those things? And, you know, I think it's and I know I've been guilty of this in my business. It's been very much about the short term. It's like, okay. So what's gonna bring the money in this month? What's gonna bring the money in next month? And And instead, let's be more deliberate and more long term thinking about, okay. So what do I wanna see in the business this time next year? So how do I make that happen? What are the things that I need to do in order to put that into place? Because, you know, Anka, you were saying that a lot of people don't wanna have a business. They just wanna have that money coming in, but the money will I mean, this is where I think the coaching industry can really be very dangerous Because people are always going on about back money, back money, back money, back money all the time. But if you're doing that all the time, it's exhausting. It burns you out. So then you think, okay. How can I make this be more sustainable? Right? Instead of looking at all the big numbers in your business, know, it's like people talking about fifty k a month. If you're not making two k a month, stop looking at the fifty k and go for five k or go for the two k And incrementally build it up. Stop hijacking your nervous system and making you think I've gotta make fifty k. Otherwise, I'm a failure. No. You're gonna go, okay. I've made two k. Oh, I made three k. Oh, I made four k. And feel how expansive that is in your body. So it's like I I think for me, the hope is, like, cut out the noise, cut out all that crap that's out there, and just really get clear on what it is that you want in your business.
Angela:
00:44:16
I love that. Thank you so much. I think that is it's a permission. It's one of the things that we've said all the time. It's permission to trust yourself. And I think the phrase that I often use is be kind to yourself but not the kind that leads to excuses. Yeah, I love it. Exactly what you are that's exactly what you're talking about. It's the it's the it's the self compassion, and it's the self awareness at the same time to recognize when we're using that as a creative avoidance because we're frightened of something. And I love that around again, everything starting small, starting, are you making five hundred pounds? Are you making one thousand? And turn off it's like unsubscribe. Obviously, not to Yasmin or or Anka and I because that would be defeating the object. But Thank you for, uh, tuning in today, and we have got the links that will be in the bottom for, uh, Yasmin and Arun. Yeah. I've
Yasmin:
00:45:06
got the ten message mistakes download. I forgot to mention that. The ten message mistakes. So and what I am a big fan of is I'll show you what not to do, but then I will show you what to do as well. Then I also have my, uh, book, Tiny, Tiny Big Results. Um, you can get that on Amazon and a Kindle and a paperback. So if you're interested in learning about how to build that business in twenty hours a week or less, the book will tell you everything. And we
Angela:
00:45:27
will have the link because that's exactly what you need. I think that's part of where the message is. Because if you can get that right, then you're probably not wasting another three hours in the meantime this week. So until next time, thanks, Yasmin, for joining us. It was a really rich conversation. Um, and, uh, take care.
Yasmin:
00:45:45
Thank you, Angela. Thank you, Anka. Bye. Take
Anke:
00:45:48
care. Bye bye.
undefined:
00:45:50
Thanks for tuning in to the Visible Coaches Podcast. If you've ever felt the pressure to market yourself in ways that don't align with your true nature, this podcast is your sanctuary. If you've enjoyed what you've heard so far, make sure to subscribe. To the Visible Coaches Podcast on your favorite platform, and we would really be grateful if you could leave us a review. Your feedback means the world to us, and it helps us reach more introverted coaches like you. To grab this episode's free resource, visit the visible coaches podcast.com. Now. That's thevisiblecoachespodcast. com. Let's continue to embrace our introverted strength, create meaningful connections, and make waves in the coaching world. Until next time.
