Robert Egger | The Trouble Maker Behind Tarmac, Venge, and More

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One day, uh, this old guy comes in the shop.
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He's asking about the stump jumper.
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And then he asked about other specialized products, you know, and he started talking about the bags.
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He said, What do you think of this specialized one?
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I go, I could design something way better.
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He goes, I'm Mike Siniard.
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I'm the founder specialist.
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The old guy was Mike.
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I said to myself, I go, I just lost my job.
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He's he's just gonna have me fired.
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He's gonna talk to the manager and say, Get this bozo off the floor.
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He's not selling any specialized stuff.
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And so Mike said, I'd like to talk to you tomorrow.
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And he looked at me and he said, When can you start?
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There's a few people you meet in life that make a big impact on you.
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And Robert Eger, our guest, is one of those.
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I'm sorry for that.
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Yeah, apologize in advance.
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Apologize in advance.
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But Robert's had a humongous impact on specialized, being really the lead of design uh for four decades or more and creating some products that you're aware of.
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Tarmac, the driving force behind that, the Venge, uh helmet design, just on and on.
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And not only in terms of the way things look, but the way that they feel, and not only how they feel when you ride them, but the way you feel just when you look at them.
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So I'm really excited to have this conversation with you, Robert.
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I really appreciate you coming in, and uh we'll tell some stories.
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Some will be true and some ought to be.
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Some should be true.
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But well welcome to the podcast.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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This is a great honor.
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Hey, I wanted to start off.
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You know, you've told me a little bit about it, but how did you end up starting to specialize?
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So I I started a little design business where I was doing first some graphic design, but I had no money, so I was working in a bike shop, the Vellomeister and Vellemeister, yeah.
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Cool shop, notorious, very cool shop.
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Yeah, and so I was working there, learning how to sell bikes, and uh I would get a small commission if I would sell a bike.
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So I was always on the prowl to sell bikes.
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And so one day uh this old guy comes in the shop.
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So when you're 20 years old and a guy 30-something comes in, oh ancient, ancient, you know, because older people then didn't ride bikes like now.
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I mean, yeah, look at the population now.
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It's and you can ride bike till you die, right?
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It's fantastic.
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And so this old guy comes in the shop and he's asking questions, and you know, I'm just you know, trying to answer questions, and he's asking about the the stump jumper, and I'm like, oh, it's a cool bike, but you know, this Richie is only a hundred bucks more and way better.
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The cool kids are riding these, yeah, you know.
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Yeah, and so you wanted to make the sale.
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I wanted to make the sale, I would make a little bit more commission.
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And then he asked about other specialized products, you know, and and I would I kind of swayed him away from some of those things.
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And then he started talking about the the bags and uh the little bag you put on your seat, seat bags.
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And uh he said, What do you think of this specialized one?
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I go, I could design something way better.
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And so he goes, I'm Mike Siniard, I'm the founder specialist.
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The old guy was Mike.
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I said to myself, I go, I just lost my job.
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He's he's just gonna have me fired.
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He's gonna talk to the manager and say, Get this bozo off the floor.
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He's not selling any specialized stuff.
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And so Mike said, I'd like to talk to you tomorrow.
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And I'm thinking, Oh, is he gonna berade me?
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What what's going on?
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You know, he goes, I I like I like some of your ideas, I want to talk to you.
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And so he goes, Come and see me tomorrow.
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And I said, I said, I well, I don't have a car.
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I didn't even know where specialized was.
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He goes, Oh, we're over in Morgan Hill.
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And I go, Okay, that's like 25 miles.
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I'll ride my bike over.
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He goes, even better.
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So I rode my bike over there, went in the front door, and he said, Have a seat.
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And he looked at me and he said, When can you start?
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He wanted to hire you right there.
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Yeah, he said, When can you start?
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I goes, Start what?
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He goes, I want you to redesign all the stuff.
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And so I said, Give me a pencil and paper, I'll start today.
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And so all those things that I ridiculed, I fixed.
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Like I designed a new water bottle.
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He said, basically, put your money where your mouth is.
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And you did, and you did.
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He challenged me.
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Like he said, I challenge you to make better bags.
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And I and he said, come and show me in a week.
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And so I learned how to sew.
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I bought you had any experience with that?
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No.
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I had a friend that was a seamstress.
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I bought an old sewing machine from her, and a week later I had samples of bags.
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Wow.
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I got some material and made bags.
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I mean, that you're that way.
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Yeah.
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Like a vision, a design, and the ability to fabricate.
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Yes.
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In my life, Robert, I've never met anyone that has that set of skills.
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So I've always had a challenge communicating what's in my head to somebody else.
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So I would do that through making something that could speak for itself.
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Here it is.
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Right?
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Here it is.
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I can just sit back and you like it or you don't like it, or you like this part of it.
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Or you got what was in your head out into something three-dimensional.
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It's not abstract anymore.
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I can sketch pretty well, but a sketch on a piece of paper is not like something that you can hold in your hands.
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So that's always been a part of like of your approach.
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Well, making it.
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So on the farm, we never had any money.
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So if we wanted something, we would make it, right?
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So I learned fabrication skills when I was five years old.
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I started building bikes and I learned how to weld and fix farm equipment.
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When I was four years old, I started driving a tractor.
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That's the way it was.
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On the farm, you just had to do stuff.
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Yeah.
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I have a funny story on the helmet stuff.
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So Mike took me aside one day, Mike Senior, and he said, Hey, do you think we should get into the helmet business?
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Because this is when uh Jiro was first getting started, you know, and they were out there with their pro light helmet.
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After like Bell V1, yes, exactly.
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So then then the Jiro came out.
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So Jim Gentis, who Jim started Jiro, yeah.
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Yes.
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Of course, Jim Gentis, he he revolutionized the helmet industry.
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The bicycle helmet, right?
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Absolutely.
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Because nobody wanted to wear a helmet and it was mandatory for the racing.
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So it's like that was the best helmet you could get because it was light, it looked kind of styled.
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He was an industrial like recover.
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Yeah.
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And so Mike said, Hey, you know, what do you think about the company doing helmets?
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And I said, Well, as a responsible company, we should offer safety products for our consumers.
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And Mike was like, Ah, you know, I don't know.
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Uh, Jim Gentis gave me a helmet and I rode it on uh a bike ride and it got all sweaty, and I hooked it on my bike when I got home and the dog chewed it up.
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Mike was like, Who's gonna pay all that money for something that your dog can just chew up?
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And I go, Well, Mike, we got to do it.
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So this was like um probably a Monday morning.
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So by Wednesday, I had snuck home to my little shop in Los Gatas in my garage, and I got a piece of foam and I sculpted it like the helmet that I thought we should do.
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Uh, with my newfound sewing skills, I sewed a like recover, and I was also cycling a lot at the time.
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So I just walked by Mike's desk in my kit with this new helmet that I designed on my head, like nonchalantly.
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And Mike's like, Robert, what whose helmet is that?
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I go, Mike, this is the new S Works helmet.
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He goes, You're in charge of helmets.
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And I So that's how Specialized made his first helmet.
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That's how we made it.
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We just made it, right?
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Amazing.
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And to have something three-dimensional that you can wear or you can hold really has a big imp impact.
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And in this case, you could put it on your head.
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Yeah.
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So that was that was the Air Force.
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Is that right?
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That was the Air Force with the like recovery.
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And then from there, there was a whole string of helmets that and you're still involved in helmets.
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Like, I mean, I'm thinking about sub-six.
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Yes, so revolutionary helmet.
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It looked like a hairnet, kind of.
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I always loved the way that cyclists, the older cyclists, looked in the hairnets.
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Yes.
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I just thought that was quintessential bike racing.
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Yes.
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I wanted to do a foam helmet that was very similar.
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And if you look at that old design, which now is, you know, 35 years old.
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Still timeless.
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Pretty timeless shape.
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Yeah.
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And uh there might be something new coming out.
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By the time this airs, it's gonna be out.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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The Evade 4.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I I see an echo of that shape in that in that helmet.
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Is that like when you were supporting the guidance of that?
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Yeah.
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So my design theory has always been the Porsche design theory.
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It's like if you look at the silhouette of a Porsche of a 9-11.
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911, a 356 from the 50s and 60s all the way to now, that shape is very iconic and it's the same shape basically.
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And so I always tried to infuse that into the helmets that if the graphics fell off a specialized helmet, you still knew it was a specialized helmet.
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I've heard you say, don't change it, just make it better.
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Don't change it, just make it better.
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And what do you mean by that?
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Like, how do you do that?
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You know, we didn't get to where we started without a lot of research and a lot of trial and error.
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And when you can take a product and over the years really hone it and make it the best, I think that makes the best design.
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Stick with it, keep working it, what can come away, what needs to change.
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Yes.
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And when you think about design, like what makes it right or not right?
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Is it is it the way that it functions, is it the way that it looks, is it the way that it feels?
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So that's a really great question.
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What is good design?
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So for me, good design is uh okay, you you design a helmet and you put it on the desk to show a consumer.
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The consumer has to feel like I am gonna do everything in my ability to get that.
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You need to want it.
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I want that thing.
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I'm gonna rob a bank, I'm gonna steal from this, I'm gonna do whatever I can to get that for the case.
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So it's an emotional appeal.
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Yes.
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You you gotta really want it.
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And when that product is on the table or it's in the bike stand, the bike is in a bike stand, it has to look like that thing is a caged beast.
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It wants to just take off, it needs to have this kinetic energy built in, even sitting built in, just sitting there.
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It wants to move and it has to entice you to throw a leg over it, right?
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It has to make you want to move.
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Yes, and we we know when we see it, right?
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You know when you see it, you go, uh, I gotta have that, right?
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It's kind of like when we looked at the Levo X.
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We we not only saw a bicycle with racks, we saw this camping adventure, this place that I've never been on my bike, this time with friends, you know.
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You you you see that and you go, I want a piece of that.
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That really resonates with me.
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I always feel like a product is like a portal, like a doorway or a path to an experience that I want to have.
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Yes, you know, but like you're saying, starts with an emotional resonance.
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It does.
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We're emotional beings, really, with a brain that tries to convince us of this or that.
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But it's like, I need to feel it, I need to move.
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Where can this take me in my life?
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And another important thing, and you've been a big part of this, is how we name that product.
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You're great at naming.
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We all we all are.
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We are what are some of your favorites?
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There's there's been lots of fun stuff, there's been many, right?
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Just like the sub-six.
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The sub-six was called the sub-six because it was under six ounces.
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Yeah, right.
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So a lot of people didn't really know that until they put this thing on their head, right?
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So that helmet per se was I knew it was going to be successful when people just walked around with it on their head, right?
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Before that, no, you finished a ride and that helmet came off your head.
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Like now I see the athletes on the podium and all that stuff.
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Yeah, they're wearing their helmet.
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They're out to dinner, they're looking good.
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Family portion there's a black one for a suit.
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That I mean, it's like they're so comfortable you don't even know it's on your head.
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Yeah.
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And we're, I think by the time this goes live, hopefully I'm not speaking out of turn, but the new power hug.
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I love that.
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Yeah.
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For the for the recon Evo shoe, the closure also on the Aries.
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Yeah.
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The the wrap around and the way that that shoe just hugs your foot.
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Like we can put a smile on things, everybody.
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Lighten up.
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Ben Edwards made a really important piece of that.
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He goes, look at our athletes, you know, after the race, they're hugging each other.
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It's that power hug and that feeling you get after a successful race with your friends.
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Absolutely.
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And we can support that with the great products.
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Totally.
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So we're here cutting into this cool podcast with Robert with Luis Diaz, one of our lead designers, working with a team of really talented designers on helmets, on saddles, on a number of products.
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And Luis, thanks so much for joining us today, dude.
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Thank you for having me here.
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We have one of your most recent creations here.
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And I just, yeah, I mean, I think about helmets all the time.
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It's probably the hardest thing to make because obviously you have to pass all the standards, right?
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This is something to provide protection.
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So you have to do that.
00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:06.799
But it's also something that a rider puts on their head, so it's part of your face.
00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:10.159
It becomes the way you're showing up in the world, right?
00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:11.600
And we know we're all vain.
00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:15.759
Like we want to look great, but then we're doing a very high performance thing.
00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:16.399
We're riding.
00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:25.200
And this is the helmet, like a long legacy, evades have won world championships, Olympic medals, you know, off-road, on-road, in the gravel.
00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:37.360
So the tip of the spear helmet from an aerodynamics and a performance standpoint, but then it's got to be comfortable, it's got to be well ventilated to keep you cool, like very challenging.
00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:45.200
Uh, we learned a lot with Evade 3, and this one was good because we we knew so much about it that we went for the improvements.
00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:54.879
So, main thing was improve the ventilation, which is so hard when you have like very minimal space to move.
00:13:54.960 --> 00:14:16.799
Uh, talking about safety a little bit, uh, it's completely um, I would say you want like a bigger uh thickness, a bigger of volume for the helmet to be like uh more or less safe, and you want like a super small compact compact volume to go through the air very fast.
00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:20.480
So, how we balance that on evade four was really cool.
00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:30.639
And uh uh addition to that, we were able to improve the feet inside, so like ventilation and feet without compromising the speed.
00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:35.679
Evade 3 was our fastest aerial helmet, extremely kind of a benchmark in the industry.
00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:37.120
Yeah, we're good there.
00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:55.440
You wanted to keep it aerodynamically, the performance, but improve ventilation so that you could cool the rider down, obviously for comfort, but also thermoregulation directly correlates to performance because when we're overheated, a lot of the air we breathe and the blood we pump goes to cooling us down.
00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:57.679
So there's a direct performance correlation.
00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:02.159
Improve the cooling and improve the comfort, is what it sounds like with a new head form.
00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:02.720
Is that right?
00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:08.879
Yeah, like I think what you brought now, like to the conversation is like the thermoregulation.
00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:32.320
We got so good on speed now, like all the evolution we are having with our equipment, and it's how like you regulate your body temperature because this translates into performance like in two or three hours, and like how you do the padding and especially inside everything that you move inside that helmet, it changes like uh how fast it is.
00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:39.759
So it was a ton of like like uh wind tuner work that we are we have here, which is super super special.
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:49.360
And if it wasn't about the wind tuner, we wouldn't be able to achieve like so fast and so good, like some uh CFD numbers that we got.
00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:53.679
Um but also again, we are a safety team.
00:15:53.919 --> 00:15:55.360
So has to pass all this.
00:15:55.759 --> 00:16:16.879
Yeah, we are so proud of this helmet because it we were able to keep and even like slightly improve uh the speed and like making it like uh roomier for more people, like people that will buy this helmet, they're gonna see that the interior is way more roomier, so you can fit like the in-between sizes.
00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:24.080
That is pretty good, pretty difficult for the helmet industry to do, like being between a small and a medium, and a medium and a large.
00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:30.159
We always like, especially for uh uh uh a race helmet, everybody wants to size down.
00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:34.000
And with this one, it's easier because the head form is new.
00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:40.159
Uh, we learned a lot with previous helmets, and again, like you can feel the ventilation.
00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:51.679
And and I think we can talk about this translated to the design because the heritage and what we developed with Eger has everything to do with the ventilation in this helmet because of the mouth part.
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:53.840
Yeah, so it's got what we call 4D.
00:16:53.919 --> 00:17:03.200
It's got the mouth port, that's one dimension, the longitudinal vents, so the vents are in line, second dimension, the channeling that goes all the way through.
00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:09.599
So the air doesn't just go in a vent and hit on your head, it runs all the way over your head, and then the exhaust port in the back.
00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:19.119
So four dimensions to the cooling that really work together to decrease the the heat that comes off the rider's head and and keep you efficient.
00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:19.599
Yeah.
00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:24.079
I mean, on this one we're saying, I think we're saying our fastest gets cooler, you know?
00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:29.759
So no matter how cool you are, you're gonna be 4.2% cooler if you put this on.
00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:34.160
So even if you're just a cool guy like Remco, you put this on, you're gonna get cooler.
00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:47.359
Ben, you know, we've worked together for a long time, and what we always strive for is to have fun with this company because we know that the people here, we've made lifelong friends.
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:58.799
And cycling is so fantastic, and it's so much more fun when you can do that with friends and you do it with a company that supports this.
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:04.640
We have an unbelievable innovation lab where we can make anything, right?
00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:13.200
You know, we have a picture here of Jim Murrers and Mark DeNucci, you know, where it started out, that was RD, just two guys brazing bikes, right?
00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:15.359
With straight steel tubes.
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:21.200
You know, now we can build anything, anything out of composite, anything out of aluminum.
00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:23.119
We can we can test it here.
00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:24.400
We have a test facility.
00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:28.720
I mean, it really is ground zero for the most innovative design in the world.
00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:33.599
But then I think combined with that, to be able to put a smile on it, like not take it too seriously.
00:18:33.759 --> 00:18:44.799
No, because we are riding bikes, like, yes, we're supporting riders at Tour de France and world championships, and there's tremendous amount of rigor also in the product, but also those riders.
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:47.839
But at the same time, like Peter Sagan always said, Why so serious?
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:48.799
Yes, you know what I mean?
00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:48.960
Yes.
00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:56.960
So if like someone who can win the Tour de Fr or the World Championship three times in a row can also crack a joke on the podium, yes, we can do that too.
00:18:57.119 --> 00:18:59.599
Yes, because life's not meant to be taken too seriously.
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:10.000
No, no, so it's always fun to sprinkle a little bit of humor and laugh at ourselves because it's just bicycles, which is important, you know, yeah, recreation, recreation.
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:15.039
Yeah so speaking of that, you brought in another another concept that you have here.
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:17.200
Um, and tell us about tell us about this one.
00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:19.920
If you're if you're watching on video, you can see the bike.
00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:24.799
If not, you might want to check it out on YouTube because Robert brought in one of his concepts.
00:19:25.119 --> 00:19:32.799
So there's a governing body that um dictates all of the design for bicycles that are used in the propeloton.
00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:34.000
It's called the UCI.
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:42.640
And so I looked at those rules pretty succinctly, and I'm like, ah, these are just too many rules.
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:47.200
So I go, I'm gonna break every rule that's in this book.
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:51.279
And subsequently came the FUCI.
00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:52.559
F UCI.
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:56.640
I hope everybody can see this, but if you can't, like Ben said, check it out.
00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:58.079
It it breaks every rule.
00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:02.799
Maybe describe some of the features that break the rules and people can follow you even if they can't see.
00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:03.279
Yeah.
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.599
So first of all, the rear wheel is a different size than the front wheel.
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:12.799
So the UCI warrants that the wheels have to be the same size, similar, same size.
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:18.400
So this one has actually a wheel that's a 33 that's actually a flywheel.
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:22.720
So once the rider gets up to speed, it's very efficient.
00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:27.359
And then, of course, it's e-powered because I want to go 40 miles an hour all the time.
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:28.559
Mechanical doping.
00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:29.599
Yes, exactly.
00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:36.319
And it actually has an aerodynamic piece that comes off the seat that's actually a glove box that you could store all kinds of things in.
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:42.559
So it's aerodynamic, it's like a little stinger tail of like of like a motorcycle or a B or something.
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:43.039
Yeah.
00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:44.559
But but it's also got function.
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:45.039
Right.
00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:46.880
So the function is you can store a jacket.
00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:48.480
The function's right there in the form.
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:49.200
Yes, exactly.
00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:50.559
Form follows function.
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:56.160
It actually has a windshield, so it it makes that air that goes around the rider much slipperier.
00:20:56.559 --> 00:21:00.319
This is the fastest bike that we've never tested in the wind tunnel.
00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:01.279
Yes.
00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:09.519
It also has all your navigation, it has heated heated handlebars, and the forms are very much like your body.
00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:11.279
Like if you look at the- I'm just gonna say that.
00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:12.799
It looks like arms at the elbows.
00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:21.279
So if you're you if you're yeah, it has elbows and forearms just like on your body and the back, it's set up just like the knees on your legs.
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:21.680
Yes.
00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:24.480
And so it's a very comfortable ride.
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:29.519
It looks very sexy, and the way that the graphic is on the bike, you can see it from the side.
00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:36.000
It's very vibrant from the side, and then from the front and back, it's it's orange in the front and orange in the back.
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:37.920
So a safe bike also.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:38.880
Oh, I see, yeah.
00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:40.480
Visually, so graphically using that.
00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:44.799
Yes, graphically using those colors so that you can be seen on the road.
00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:55.200
You did the first tarmac, yeah, which was aluminum in the in the under and carbon on the top, and then you've been involved in guiding the direction of that for a while.
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:59.599
I I think we've done a great job of like really honing the best.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.880
Road bike over you know the last 20 years.
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:03.359
Yeah.
00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:03.759
Right.
00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:06.319
And we've always had fantastic engineering.
00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:14.559
We'd have we have people like uh Luke Callahan and Chris Deluzio, uh the guys in the wind tunnel.
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:21.119
I mean, we have really made uh a chassis that is fantastic, very slippery, very cool.
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:28.079
But it's always been fun to be part of that team because the team has always believed that there's no such thing as a perfect design.
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:31.839
So we know that there's always gonna be improvement.
00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:37.680
Like we get done with a design, we're like, oh my God, it's gonna suck because it's gonna be hard to top this.
00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:42.000
And then some time goes by and it's like, whoa, wait a second, we could do this and this and this.
00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:45.200
Just like you were saying, like that idea of don't change it, but make it better.
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:47.759
You live with it for a while, you see how to evolve it.
00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:51.039
But there there truly is no perfect design.
00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:52.160
I love that idea.
00:22:52.400 --> 00:22:53.759
There's always room for improvement.
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:56.799
And when you looking at this, this question just popped in my head.
00:22:56.960 --> 00:23:08.160
Like, when you're thinking about a project or a design or a concept, do you see it in your mind's eye and then and then realize it, or is it like an idea like F-U-C-I, and then what would that be?
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:09.039
Is it analytical?
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:10.799
This is gonna sound crazy.
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:13.519
This is gonna sound completely crazy.
00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:17.839
But I knew what that bike looked like before I even almost like it existed.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.359
It existed in my head, even before I grabbed a pencil to sketch it.
00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:24.160
I knew exactly what that bike was going to look like.
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:26.079
Like 99.9%.
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:27.599
I believe that.
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:40.960
I mean, Michelangelo said that, like on the, you know, he the David or the prisoners, you know, that he would carve out of stone, and he's he explained it as you know, releasing the figure from the stone that he already saw.
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:46.160
So so I think I have just a very small piece of that in me.
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:47.440
I don't think it's a small piece of thing.
00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:50.319
So so I took a sculpture class in college.
00:23:50.480 --> 00:24:00.160
It was taught by this Italian guy that was very flamboyant, and his he was like seven feet tall, and he would wave his arms around like crazy, very animated.
00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:04.480
And uh it was a it was an entry-level sculpture class.
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:14.480
And so we would start out with an armature, and then we would pack it with modeling clay, and then we would do uh a bust of they'd get a model and we'd do a bust.
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:20.000
And so he was talking about this, and he goes, uh, this is going to be a six-week class.
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:30.640
And um, you know, I don't expect that your your uh your model when it's done, you know, may necess not necessarily look like the model, but it's your interpretation.
00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:35.920
And he goes, We're gonna spend six weeks on this, and then you'll be graded at the end of the six weeks.
00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:38.480
And uh the class was two hours.
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:45.839
So by the second hour, I had sculpt sculpted perfectly the the model's head.
00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:47.039
The model's head.
00:24:47.200 --> 00:24:52.160
It was like exactly like it was like CNC'd.
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:53.039
Amazing.
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:59.519
And my instructor, he just ran around the room flailing, he had never seen anything like this.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:03.440
And I I was done with the six-week class, I never had to go back again.
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:04.319
Incredible.
00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:15.279
So I think I have an innate ability to like see something that is is not there three-dimensionally, which I I I really feel grateful that I have.
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:16.480
What's that like for you?
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:18.240
Like right now, I'm looking at you.
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:18.720
Yeah.
00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:20.000
No, yeah.
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:22.960
I just thought everybody could do that.
00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:31.119
Because it's as natural, like his breathing kind of and I I I follow my instincts and sometimes I'll just let my hands do something, right?
00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:35.519
There's been times though when I design something and I'm done.
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:40.799
I I look at it and I'm done, and and I get the closest hammer and I just dry it.
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:43.359
Because it's not there, because it's not right, right?
00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:46.240
I'm not thinking the right way, or it's and then you come back again.
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:47.119
Then I come back.
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:50.160
You often start with a model and then build the big thing.
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:55.759
Yeah, I like to start with a quarter scale sometimes because the the scale is easy to work and easy to make parts.
00:25:55.839 --> 00:25:57.599
Like and then you can kind of say, yes, that's it.
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:00.160
On this FUCI bike, there's a quarter scale of that.
00:26:00.319 --> 00:26:00.480
Right.
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:00.880
Yeah.
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:05.279
And it really it really helps to envision what the the big one will be.
00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:08.640
And on the smaller one, I can work with graphics and things like that.
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:18.400
And the the full size always comes out a lot better than the quarter scale because you have time to ponder things and look at things and uh 360s in your hand and things like that.
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:21.920
So you you you get a you build a relationship with that.
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:25.039
You know, it's really true on the helmet stuff.
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:30.720
Like I I work really old school, like I'm basically sculpting stuff.
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:47.759
And so when you're working on a sculpture with your hands, you you it's like another it's like another sense that you have because you you're touching this thing and you're feeling the shapes, and it'll it allows you to um really understand how things work.
00:26:47.920 --> 00:26:55.440
Like sometimes I close my eyes and just put my hands on whatever I'm working on, and your hands can tell you what's right and what's not right.
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:56.480
Powerful.
00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:56.880
Yeah.
00:26:57.119 --> 00:26:57.279
Wow.
00:26:57.680 --> 00:26:57.839
Cool.
00:26:58.160 --> 00:26:58.640
It's interesting.
00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:04.960
What are some of the things you've designed at specialized that stick out to you as the most rewarding or satisfying?
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:11.680
I've had the opportunity to build a lot of concept bikes, and people always ask me, Oh, what's your favorite concept bike?
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:14.319
And it's like, oh it's like say, Who's your favorite kid?
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:14.640
Yeah.
00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:20.880
You know, I spend a lot of intimate time with these bikes, and so you you love every one of them, right?
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:25.599
You my goal has always been to love the the design I'm working on.
00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:30.319
Like, I I will design anything, but I want to fall in love with that that design.
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:33.839
So that at the end you're like, you're really proud of that.
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:37.279
You're really proud of saying, there it is on the table.
00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:50.960
Um this is a starting a lot of times it's a starting point because um I'm just one designer and a lot of times I love to work with more designers.
00:27:51.039 --> 00:28:02.880
Like I work with Luis on the helmets, yeah, and we really um augment each other and support each other, and we always push each other to to to do the best design that we can.
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:07.359
And I'm an older designer, he's a younger designer, so I learn a lot.
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.400
Like I always have to go like this and listen, right?
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:12.400
I can't stop listening as a designer.
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:28.640
And when you've designed something and it feels like it is right, like that what you saw in your mind that you were able to create physically, is it important to you if it makes its way like into production, or is just creating it in a way that's like that's what I had envisioned.
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:29.680
Is that enough for you?
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:38.400
That's a really good point because it can be frustrating because um a lot of times people aren't ready for it.
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:38.880
Right.
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:39.359
Right.
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:44.079
It might be different, of course, and it might be a little bit ahead of its time.
00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:46.640
Um but but it is frustrating.
00:28:46.720 --> 00:28:57.039
But but Ben, I I th I I have come to accept that as I'm a person that wants to get people thinking about something, right?
00:28:57.200 --> 00:29:03.039
So my job here at Specialized is really to bring the horse to water.
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:04.960
And if the horse drinks, that's great.
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:17.440
If it doesn't drink, but it's amazing that a lot of things that I've done, smaller pieces of it have come to fruition, like SWAT, like I was doing stuff inside tubes of bikes for a long time.
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:19.519
Yeah, storage, storage, right?
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:22.480
And it it took a while for that to kind of catch on.
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:24.400
And now it's across the industry, right?
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:31.759
And it's like even like the helmet, the evade helmet, which was the first arrow helmet that we did, arrow road helmet, that took it different in the beginning.
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:32.240
It looked different.
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:33.920
People were talking ventilation, lots of vents.
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:45.279
And it was the design, I would say it uh looking back was a little too polarizing, you know, and subsequently we've made the helmets much sleeker, you know, with the help of Luis and his team.
00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:52.079
Um but it it can be frustrating because I I want everybody to think like I think.
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:59.519
You want people to get there, which is selfish, is to get there fast, it's selfish, but I think that we're not moving fast enough.
00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:08.799
I want everything that we do at specialized to to make you ride faster, look better, have a more enjoyable ride, all those things, right?
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:11.519
Have more memories, have more of that value.
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:20.720
And I feel that the team that we have here, our engineers, our innovation lab, our composite lab, the wind tunnel, that's what we do now.
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:23.519
We make everybody's ride on the bike better.
00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:29.519
Combined with with the retailers that we partner with around the world to bring it to riders no matter where they are.
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:31.039
The opportunity is immense.
00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:42.960
And just explaining all this technology that we infuse into these bikes, you know, you've done a fantastic job of making some of this very complex technology really appealing and understandable.
00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:44.000
No, thanks.
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:44.640
Thanks.
00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:46.000
What in that area?
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:57.599
Like, what are the spaces within cycling that like you feel the most opportunity or excitement about, like either for you individually, for us specialized, or like just in the world?
00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:01.519
Like, what areas are most compelling to you about bicycles in the world?
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:05.039
I um I ran into Matt Hunter this morning.
00:31:05.119 --> 00:31:12.559
Yes, and I know that you, you, Ben, and him and some other guys, you guys have been doing this uh camping on your bikes.
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:13.839
Yeah, electric overland.
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:15.519
Yes, yeah, electric overland.
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:21.279
And um, I'm a huge proponent of that because it's goes back to my roots, right?
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:27.359
Yes, and with the advent of the the e-bike, it's like, oh my God, it's all fun, right?
00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:37.440
Being able to ride your bike, go to an amazing place with your friends, camp in the woods, camp in the woods, tell lies at night, have a little bit of drinking fun, right?
00:31:37.839 --> 00:31:39.279
It's the best thing in the world.
00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:40.960
It's like a warm hug for everybody.
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:42.240
Come in, do this thing.
00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:49.279
And even if you haven't been riding a lot and you're not maybe that fit on the bike, the the electric bike takes care of that.
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:49.920
Oh my God.
00:31:50.319 --> 00:31:58.480
You know, we're riding with Paul Stamitz, and like he's in his 70s now, and he's like, I can ride on this bike and ride further than I could when I was in the best shape of my life.
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:02.400
So it's like everybody's welcome, and it's just the pure fun of it.
00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:08.079
So the best thing about an e-bike, Ben, is you're you're doing this really hard climb.
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:13.440
And if you're on your Amish bike, the tree goes by very slowly along the road.
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:15.759
But on an e-bike, the trees go by like this.
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:17.119
Yeah, it's amazing.
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:19.920
And that's the funnest thing about cycling is the movement.
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:24.000
You were saying to me at lunch, like our fitness is going down, but our speeds are going up.
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:24.400
Oh, yeah.
00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:26.400
That's that's when technology's working for you.
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:27.680
I love technology.
00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:30.400
And let's talk about the Livo X.
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:42.079
So Levo X is coming out and it's like Livo 4 or Livo R with racks, and we have you've been really leading, you know, what could that be and immediately and down the road?
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:45.359
But talk to us about how that whole project came to be.
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:47.359
Actually, Ben, you started it.
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:49.359
Well, you were riding back and forth on the Livo.
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:51.920
Here's in my mind how how it really started.
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:52.319
Okay.
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:58.720
So, of course, we have the Levo 4, which is a great bike, and we had talked about putting racks on this thing.
00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:03.599
And Ben came to me, he goes, Hey Robert, why you did this other bike over here?
00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:07.359
Uh, this little moto bike that has the Hondo.
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:11.680
Hondo that has a tube, tube like a space frame space feet, yeah.
00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:13.200
You know, space frame.
00:33:13.440 --> 00:33:15.039
He goes, Why don't you make a rack out of that?
00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:19.759
I go, Oh my god, that's that's the greatest idea I've had or you've had.
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:22.960
That's the greatest idea I've ever stolen.
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:29.519
That's well, it was your idea, but then putting it on there because then the rack was attached to the mainframe, so the suspension could still work.
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:29.839
Yes.
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:34.960
So you could load up the rack, and then literally the next day, yeah, you're like, hey, come back to the shop.
00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:35.920
I got something to show you.
00:33:36.160 --> 00:33:39.440
You know, when you have an idea, you you have to go, right?
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:44.720
You can't wait around because of course in in our industry there's a lot of parallel design.
00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:49.839
And I thought the idea was so good that I wanted to get something in front of people right away.
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:50.319
Yes.
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:52.640
We made a really awesome rack.
00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:57.279
It makes the bike look really cool, and I believe it actually stiffens up the chassis.
00:33:57.519 --> 00:33:58.559
And you can carry stuff now.
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:01.200
Oh, and so so whether you can carry a person.
00:34:01.359 --> 00:34:01.599
Yeah.
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:17.760
So whether you go, whether you go camping on it or whether you know, whether you go across town or across the continent, all of a sudden this bike that we all love, because you can get rad on it on the trails, has this utility or adventure aspect that it opens up like an adventure motorcycle.
00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:18.400
Exactly.
00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:23.760
And for me, um, I I live by car about 30 minutes from work.
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:28.079
And on my levo with racks, it takes me 45 minutes.
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:38.400
And so uh for 15 minutes, I I get to ride crazy downhill in the dirt uh on the pavement, and I come to work, I'm refreshed.
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:39.920
The bicycle saves the day.
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:42.320
Yeah, it's a it's a way to avoid the bummer life.
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:42.719
Yes.
00:34:42.880 --> 00:34:48.079
You know, it's like if you talk to people, they you say, like if they commute by car, you say, Well, what's the hardest part of your day?
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:50.239
Usually it's the commute, the bummer.
00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:50.559
Yeah.
00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:55.760
But it's like on these bikes, you can often, instead of drive, you can ride.
00:34:55.840 --> 00:35:01.119
And it turns it's such a hack because it turns that bummer part of the day into probably the highlight of your day.
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:01.840
Yes, it really is.
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:03.360
I look forward to riding my bike home.
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:03.840
I love it.
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:04.320
Right.
00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:06.719
And just think of the gas I'm saving.
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:07.119
Right.
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:13.920
Like I save roughly ten dollars in gas every day, but then I have to eat a burrito for gas to get home.
00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:16.159
So I might have more gas as well.
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:18.480
I have plenty of gas to go around.
00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:19.840
That's that's awesome.
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:25.920
But I'm really stoked that I've never stopped riding my bike, right?
00:35:26.159 --> 00:35:29.840
And it's something that we all want to do as long as we can.
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:33.760
And the Levo has allowed me to just ride faster than ever.
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:34.639
Totally.
00:35:34.880 --> 00:35:36.880
How did bikes first come into your life?
00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:42.000
So I I grew up in Wisconsin and I was the youngest of 10 kids.
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:48.079
So by default, your birth first bicycle is always handed down.
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:52.719
And my closest siblings are three sisters.
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:55.599
So of course I got handed down a girl's bike.
00:35:55.840 --> 00:36:00.719
And my older brothers, you know, they called me a sissy, they called me a girl.
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:05.760
My bike had the step through, you know, and it was just not a very cool bike.
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:08.880
And so took a lot of ridicule from my family.
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:11.360
And I'm like, man, I think they're right.
00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:14.000
This bike is kind of shitty, right?
00:36:14.320 --> 00:36:18.719
And so there was a neighbor kid who always rode by the farm.
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:20.079
I grew up on a dairy farm.
00:36:20.239 --> 00:36:23.440
So three strikes for me, right to begin with.
00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:28.000
Grew up in Wisconsin, grew up on a dairy farm, and the youngest of 10 kids.
00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:29.440
So life was challenging.
00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:30.559
You could say there's strikes.
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:33.199
We might peel that back and see some gifts that came from it, too.
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:33.760
But keep going.
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:34.000
All right.
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:34.719
So maybe so.
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:35.599
You had some headwinds.
00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:36.480
Yes, put it that way.
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:39.360
So I was a country kid.
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:43.360
The city kid used to ride his bicycle by the farm.
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:53.440
And it was a beautiful red, store-bought schwin, uh, glossy red with the chrome fenders and the tassels on the bars.
00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:55.199
And I was five years old.
00:36:55.360 --> 00:37:01.440
I saw that thing go by the farm, and I'm like, oh my God, that's the coolest thing I ever have seen.
00:37:01.679 --> 00:37:05.679
And so um I started begging my parents like every day.
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:09.519
It's like I told them about this bike with the chrome fenders and the paint.
00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:11.119
And I go, look at my bike.
00:37:11.199 --> 00:37:21.519
It's like it's just been abused and used and kept for it what seemed like weeks, just pestering them that I wanted this bicycle that I had seen.
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:30.480
And so one day my dad comes home in his old pickup truck and comes in the house and he says, Robbie, your new bike is in the back of the truck.
00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:35.440
And I'm like, Oh my God, you know, my prayers were answered, right?
00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:39.679
And so I run out there thinking to see this beautiful red bike.
00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:48.000
But Ben, my dad's truck was loaded up with all these old rusty frames and wheels and saddles and handlebars.
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:49.920
And he said, There's your new bicycle.
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:51.280
Like from the dump or something.
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:54.719
Yeah, he went to the dump and they gave him all the old bicycles.
00:37:54.960 --> 00:38:02.000
And so he gave me a little toolbox that had uh pliers and crescent wrench and a hammer, and he said, You can build your own bike.
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:04.480
And so that's when I started building bikes.
00:38:04.639 --> 00:38:07.920
So I've been building bikes for almost 60 years.
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:08.960
That's amazing.
00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:10.079
Yeah, that's amazing.
00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:11.599
And what did what came out of that?
00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:13.599
Like, what did you end up cobbling together?
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:18.480
So I made not one bike, but I made tens and tens of bikes.
00:38:18.559 --> 00:38:23.840
And my scam as a kid, I always had money in my pocket because I would sell bikes to kids at school.
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:24.159
Oh my god.
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:25.360
And so it started early.
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:26.239
It started early.
00:38:26.400 --> 00:38:34.239
And I understood the power of marketing because I would make this cool bike that was different than anything else, and I would paint it and you know like rattle cam.
00:38:34.559 --> 00:38:40.000
Yeah, shine the chrome and I would ride it to school, and I go, hey guys, this this bike could be yours, right?
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:43.039
And I would sell the bike and walk home and work on the next one.
00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:53.519
So I always had pocket change as a kid, and that started my love for bicycles, not just building bicycles, but the freedom you feel when you ride a bicycle.
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:59.440
I mean, for me as a designer, working on bicycles is the perfect fit for me.
00:38:59.519 --> 00:39:00.559
And I I love it.
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:04.559
I've never felt like being here at specialized for 40 plus years.
00:39:04.719 --> 00:39:06.079
It's never been a job.
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:07.440
It's been a calling.
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:13.119
And I've got to work with some of the best people in the world that specialized.
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:20.960
I always warn people, I give a lot of tours, I warn people, you will make lifelong friends here, anywhere in the bike industry.
00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:21.679
Absolutely.
00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:22.159
Absolutely.
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:27.039
Because I think that a part of it, I think, is of that shared like love of just riding a bike.
00:39:27.360 --> 00:39:32.400
And like when pretty much every guest that comes on on the show, I go, What's your first memory?
00:39:32.559 --> 00:39:33.599
And they say, freedom.
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:34.000
Right.
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:35.519
You know, so what was that like for you?
00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:41.440
You built this bike, you had it, and then talk to me about the feeling of freedom when you what would you ride like on the farm around?
00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:44.400
Well, we never took trips like normal people.
00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:47.599
We just stayed on the farm because it was work all the time.
00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:51.599
We had a dairy farm, which means you have to milk cows morning and night.
00:39:51.679 --> 00:39:55.760
And in between that time, you're fixing things, making fence, doing all that stuff.
00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:57.679
So wasn't much time.
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:04.239
But I always had a little time on my bicycle where I could get away from the farm and see the world, right?
00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:06.719
Even if it was just a mile or two down the road.
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:11.840
I mean, that mile or two later turned into I'm gonna ride 100 miles today, right?
00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:15.039
So it just kept brewing and growing.
00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:20.400
And but everything good that's happened to me has been because of bicycles.
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:21.760
Amazing, amazing.
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:32.320
So hands-on in the beginning, yes, figuring it out, yes, and then the bike has like this escape and like joy and freedom amidst like day in, day out work on the farm.
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:34.960
Yes, everybody knows what I'm talking about, yeah.
00:40:35.039 --> 00:40:38.480
That freedom that you get, things are just going by you fast.
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:43.840
You know, there was no helmets, we were just in cutoff shorts, no jerseys, we just rode bikes.
00:40:44.079 --> 00:40:44.559
That's right.
00:40:44.719 --> 00:40:47.920
And you were the 10th, you there were 10 kids in your family.
00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:49.119
I was the 11th.
00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:52.320
You were the 11th, but you're the seventh son of a seventh son, right?
00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:52.639
Yes.
00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:59.760
So in my in my dad's family, he was the seventh son in his family, and I was the seventh son in his family.
00:40:59.920 --> 00:41:02.079
So I have a tattoo here somewhere.
00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:02.480
Yeah.
00:41:02.719 --> 00:41:05.039
That uh I don't know if you can see it, but it's right there.
00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:07.039
If you're on YouTube with us, you can see it.
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:10.079
If you otherwise, if you're listening somewhere else, check out YouTube.
00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:12.320
Yes, I always thought that was a cool thing.
00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:13.519
I think that was super cool.
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:15.039
That was kind of my lucky charm.
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:16.639
And did you feel that way as a kid?
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:20.719
Like I always felt like I had luck on my side, whatever I did.
00:41:20.960 --> 00:41:21.360
Amazing.
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:25.440
Yeah, but I but the bike gave me a lot of that confidence, particularly as a kid.
00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:31.119
You know, it's like there's not that many ways you can like get away and get far and whatever.
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:36.320
And the bike, you know, was that and is that, you know, for me still, and it's totally universal.
00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:36.800
Yeah.
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:42.800
You talked about, you know, over time it grew and it it got little rides got longer and stuff, and like a hundred miles.
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:44.239
Like, where did it go from there?
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:46.719
Childhood to sound like you kept riding.
00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:47.119
Yeah.
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:50.239
So I really started riding a lot in college.
00:41:50.480 --> 00:42:02.079
And my first year in school, I took my bike with me, and my bike was nothing fancy, it was actually a a Schwinn World Voyager, which at the time was a pretty good bike.
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:13.599
Um, and so I joined this touring club at school, and basically uh a bunch of guys and girls would get together and you'd ride away from campus and camp out.
00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:16.159
And I got to doing that, and I really love doing that.
00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:18.960
And we talk about gravel riding and gravel racing.
00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:19.920
That's all we rode.
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:21.440
It was all gravel, it was all gravel.
00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:24.960
This stuff wasn't paved, it was nothing, so like paniers and like camping gear.
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:25.280
Yeah.
00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:33.119
So I I had like a Pletcher rack, you know, and put bags and you'd tie a sleeping bag on there and uh something to eat, right?
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:41.039
And something to drink, and you'd head out in the hills around Menominee, Wisconsin, which perfect the riding there is fantastic.
00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:41.440
Really?
00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:42.400
What's it like?
00:42:42.639 --> 00:42:52.400
Uh, very short little hills, uh, beautifully wooded, lots of lakes and streams, lots of mosquitoes, of course, but uh really beautiful.
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:54.480
Some of the the nicest cycling in the world.
00:42:54.639 --> 00:42:54.960
Wow.
00:42:55.039 --> 00:43:02.239
Yeah, you don't hear about that much, but I can kind of picture it rolling hills, wooded, and so lush and green, beautiful, right?
00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:19.760
Yeah, and so we had done a camp out and we were riding back to school and riding on the gravel roads and on the paved roads, and all of a sudden, this Peloton, I didn't know it was called a Peloton, but this group of five riders just come whizzing by and they're all on the road, yeah.
00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:24.639
Driving in a pace line, in a paceline, you know, beautiful bikes.
00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:30.639
They got all the gear, the shoes, the jersey, European inspired, like road racing style.
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:36.000
And they're riding for this recycled bike team that's on the university.
00:43:36.079 --> 00:43:37.440
So they got the same jerseys.
00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:40.079
I'm like, oh my god, what was that?
00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:47.440
And so I was riding behind them, and I'm like, I started riding faster, and I'm like, well, they're not getting away from me.
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:48.719
I'm so I was just watching them, right?
00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:49.599
You were hanging on to it.
00:43:49.760 --> 00:44:01.519
I was hanging on, and then I got closer and closer, and they look back and they see this kid with all of his camping stuff and rattling noises from a frying pan, and They're like, we got to get rid of this guy.
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:03.280
And so I hear the click-click.
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:06.480
They try to get rid of me, but I'm a super strong farm kid.
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:06.880
Yeah.
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:07.199
Yeah.
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:08.239
You know, farm strong.
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:09.360
Zero farm strong.
00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:10.239
Farm strong.
00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:11.199
Zero percent body.
00:44:11.679 --> 00:44:12.079
Hard headed.
00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:13.440
Yes, hard headed.
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:15.280
I just wanted to be part of that.
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:16.960
So they couldn't shake you.
00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:17.679
They couldn't shake me.
00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:19.440
So I'm riding like, I didn't know about drafting.
00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:22.239
I'm riding like 20 feet behind them, and they're they can't get rid of me.
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:24.079
And then one of the guys drops off.
00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:25.440
You know, he couldn't take it.
00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:31.519
And subsequently, over the course of getting back to my college town, it was just me and another guy.
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:36.000
And he's like, You are the strongest kid I've ever seen.
00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:39.920
Show up at the bike shop and talk to us about getting on the team.
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:41.440
I'm like, on the team?
00:44:41.599 --> 00:44:43.199
Oh my God, that was incredible.
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:44.320
That was appealing to you.
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:45.280
It was super appealing.
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:46.480
You wanted to be a part of that.
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:46.800
Yeah.
00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:47.280
Cool.
00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:49.280
I just loved going fast on my bike.
00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:49.519
Yeah.
00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:54.000
And I didn't know that such a thing existed that you could ride and race.
00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:55.679
And I mean, these guys would go to races on the city.
00:44:57.039 --> 00:44:59.199
Didn't have exposure from where I grew up.
00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:06.480
So subsequently went to the shop, befriended the frame builder that worked there, and he built me a custom frame.
00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:07.199
Amazing.
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:07.599
Yeah.
00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:10.159
And so then you rode with that team in college.
00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:10.559
Yeah.
00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:12.400
And then I started to race.
00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:16.960
And so, you know, racing at that time was very tribal.
00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:18.559
No one told you anything.
00:45:18.719 --> 00:45:25.519
It's not like you have body geometry saddles, you have the fit, you have all this stuff that makes cycling very easy.
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:27.360
You kept going on a competitive path.
00:45:27.519 --> 00:45:28.400
So what did that look like?
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:32.400
It looked so collegiate stuff, and this is going to college, still in Wisconsin.
00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:32.960
Yeah.
00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:40.480
So when I got out of college, um I raced a lot around Madison and in the Twin Cities.
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:44.239
And I was state champion quite a few times.
00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:44.880
Amazing.
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:48.159
And even though you didn't start riding in that way until college.
00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:49.760
No, I was a real quick study.
00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:53.360
And uh I would just watch and observe.
00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:58.159
And I had pretty good team tactics because I had an incredible sprint.
00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:00.320
So my tactics didn't have to be that great.
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:03.679
I just had to get near the end and just go as hard as I could.
00:46:03.920 --> 00:46:04.400
Yeah.
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:11.039
And uh at that same time, I was uh I had gotten my first job out of school for Trek.
00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:15.679
And so it was pretty cool because I got to be a designer.
00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:17.679
I was the first designer ever hired at Trek.
00:46:17.840 --> 00:46:18.239
No king.
00:46:18.400 --> 00:46:20.239
So you studied design in college.
00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:20.719
Yes.
00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:27.360
So you came out of college, you had been racing, loved bikes as a kid, that converted into like racing, but still loving it.
00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:27.599
Yeah.
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:28.639
Studying design.
00:46:28.719 --> 00:46:28.800
Yeah.
00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:30.800
And then right out of college, you got hired at Trek.
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:31.039
Yes.
00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:31.920
Putting the two together.
00:46:32.159 --> 00:46:32.880
I have a funny story.
00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:35.760
So no, you a funny story.
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:40.559
In college, every project I did revolved around bicycles.
00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:41.039
Why not?
00:46:41.199 --> 00:46:41.599
Why not?
00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:42.559
I loved bicycles.
00:46:42.639 --> 00:46:48.400
Like I took furniture design class and I made bikes out of old our chairs out of old frames.
00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:50.480
So everything was bicycles.
00:46:50.719 --> 00:47:03.840
And one day my professor, he, you know, fatherly puts his arm around me and said, Hey, you know, uh, you you need to design other things because there's there's no such thing as a bicycle designer.
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:11.920
He said, There's you you need to like design like coffee makers and car parts and things like that.
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:13.119
Consumer products.
00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:13.519
Yes.
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:14.880
This is what the world wants.
00:47:15.199 --> 00:47:16.800
Ah, but I love bicycles.
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:18.159
What a downer that got.
00:47:18.719 --> 00:47:20.079
But I really liked furniture design.
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:23.119
So I go, okay, you know, okay, I could do that too.
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:26.159
So I sent out two resumes when I graduated.
00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:29.039
One was to Herman Miller, okay, furniture maker.
00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:33.840
And the other was this company I just heard about, Trek Bicycles in Waterloo, Wisconsin.
00:47:34.000 --> 00:47:34.800
Yeah, close by.
00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:37.039
And both people wanted to hire me.
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:38.400
I'm like, oh my God.
00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:41.280
And I go, you know, this bicycle thing, I'm really into it.
00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:42.800
I'm gonna choose the bicycle thing.
00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:48.400
And they were pay, they were going to pay me an amazing amount of money.
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:49.679
Amazing.
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:53.360
My my salary was gonna be$14,000 a year.
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:54.400
Holy smokes.
00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:57.440
And I'm like, okay, I was a starving college kid.
00:47:57.679 --> 00:48:01.280
I'm like, what am I gonna do with all this money?
00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:08.800
So I did have student loans when I got out of UW Stout in Menominee, which is pronounced me no money.
00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:12.800
Uh my my student loans were twelve hundred dollars.
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:15.360
I'm like, oh my God, this is gonna bury me.
00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:18.400
But then I got to with the truck gig, you were able to pay that down.
00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:24.079
So at the time in Wisconsin, on a salary of fourteen thousand dollars, I could buy a house.
00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:24.880
Wow.
00:48:25.119 --> 00:48:26.800
And I could buy a car and make a payment.
00:48:27.039 --> 00:48:28.880
Were you having a hard time wrapping your head around that?
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:30.639
I felt like an adult, right?
00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:40.559
So I I really was fortunate and felt very I guess I felt very fortunate that the bicycle had gotten me to that point, right?
00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:42.480
That I could take care of myself.
00:48:42.800 --> 00:48:43.840
All the way along, really.
00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:48.159
Like yeah, you you you built the bikes and brought them to school and sold them.
00:48:48.320 --> 00:48:50.960
You rode and you found your your freedom, etc.
00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:51.440
etc.
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:57.840
Got on the team and then design, and then boom, it just kept being this magic vehicle.
00:48:57.920 --> 00:49:00.079
It seems like the bicycle where you wanted to go.
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:01.760
The bicycle was just a moneymaker.
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:02.400
I love it.
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:04.239
A joymaker and a moneymaker.
00:49:05.840 --> 00:49:07.760
So I was always in heaven, right?
00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:13.679
I was always in heaven being in a situation to get paid a little money for my passion.
00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:16.800
And so did you, when you were at Trek, did you keep racing?
00:49:16.960 --> 00:49:19.440
Because you but you eventually went to Olympic training camp.
00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:24.400
Yeah, so I got coined the name uh WSM.
00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:25.519
WSM, what was that?
00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:26.239
That's what they called me.
00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:27.599
Wisconsin Strongman.
00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:28.079
Okay.
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:30.719
You were like known as people didn't know my name.
00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:31.360
Beautiful.
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:32.639
That's pretty WSM.
00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:33.519
WSM.
00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:34.159
Who is that guy?
00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:35.039
I don't know, never seen him.
00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:35.760
WSM.
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:49.039
And the racing back in the Midwest is fantastic because um they had the Super Week, they had the Low Embros series, they had the tour of Minnesota, which at the time was longer than the Cours Classic.
00:49:49.119 --> 00:49:51.519
Uh, so the racing back there is really good.
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:59.679
And as a racer, it was fairly lucrative because when you did a race in a city, um, the whole town would get around it.
00:49:59.920 --> 00:50:00.320
Amazing.
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:04.960
It'd be a criterion, and it would be two or three deep around the whole course.
00:50:05.199 --> 00:50:06.880
And there's like the 80s, 80s, yeah.
00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:07.440
80s.
00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:07.760
Yeah.
00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:08.079
Yeah.
00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:13.840
And all these companies, all these local businesses would give preams.
00:50:14.239 --> 00:50:17.679
Like at one race, I won a washer and dryer.
00:50:18.320 --> 00:50:18.960
Perfect.
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:19.519
Perfect.
00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:21.360
You could put in that house you could afford.
00:50:22.400 --> 00:50:23.599
But it was amazing.
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:30.559
Like uh racing was fantastic, really high level, and then you could make some serious money on the weekends.
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:31.039
Amazing.
00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:32.800
So you were doing that while you were also at Trek?
00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:33.199
Yeah.
00:50:33.280 --> 00:50:36.320
Trek's a great company, great Midwestern company.
00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:40.000
But it was really fun working there because they did the manufacturing there.
00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:40.559
Yes.
00:50:40.719 --> 00:50:46.000
So I could work on design stuff and go out to the factory and see how it was working, how it was being made.
00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:48.480
You know, of course, we do that now at specialized.
00:50:48.559 --> 00:50:48.800
Yeah.
00:50:48.960 --> 00:50:52.000
We work very closely with our manufacturing people.
00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:52.639
Yeah.
00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:53.840
But it was pretty cool.
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:54.400
Amazing.
00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:54.639
Yeah.
00:50:54.880 --> 00:50:56.639
So is that what brought you out to California?
00:50:56.960 --> 00:51:04.480
I had always heard and dreamed about California because you know, you can only ride two months out of the year in Wisconsin.
00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:06.559
There's there's actually cold snow.
00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:07.519
Cold snow.
00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:10.320
So you wanted to go somewhere warmer, somewhere you could ride more.
00:51:10.480 --> 00:51:10.639
Yes.
00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:11.920
So California was the place.
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:12.159
Right.
00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:13.360
It's kind of a mythical land.
00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:18.239
I through my races and things, I got accepted to the Olympic Training Center.
00:51:18.559 --> 00:51:21.360
And uh that was going to happen at Colorado Springs.
00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:26.239
So I needed to leave Wisconsin and find a place to train.
00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:28.079
And I fell in love with California.
00:51:28.239 --> 00:51:31.599
Why does anybody live back there where it's so darn cold?
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:38.559
California, I mean, this is just to be a cyclist here with the terrain, the mountains, the ocean.
00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:38.880
Yeah.
00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:39.840
It's amazing.
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:44.079
So you came out here, Olympic Training Center, but then you also kept working in the industry, right?
00:51:44.159 --> 00:51:45.280
At Blackburn?
00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:45.920
Yeah.
00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:54.159
So I I came out to California and I trained and went to the training center, but uh regrettably didn't make the team.
00:51:54.400 --> 00:51:59.360
And I had a design background, so I go, man, I'm not leaving California.
00:51:59.599 --> 00:52:05.039
Uh so I sent a resume, a few resumes around, and I I sent one to Blackburn Design.
00:52:05.360 --> 00:52:05.920
Jim Blackburn.
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:06.800
Jim Blackburn.
00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:09.039
And so he finally gave me a job.
00:52:09.119 --> 00:52:09.360
Okay.
00:52:09.519 --> 00:52:13.199
So I I really got to learn from a very astute designer.
00:52:13.760 --> 00:52:15.039
But high standards.
00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:15.840
High standards.
00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:17.760
He was very hard to work for, though.
00:52:17.840 --> 00:52:18.000
Okay.
00:52:18.159 --> 00:52:22.239
Like he also kind of took Mike Siniard under his wing.
00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:25.360
Well, you you know and helped Mike kind of elevate his game.
00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:27.440
Mike talked about that on the podcast we did with Mike.
00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:31.119
You know, both Mike and I learned a lot from Jim Blackburn.
00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:36.079
And what impact in the world do you hope that your design work has made?
00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:37.519
That's a tough question.
00:52:37.679 --> 00:52:42.320
I I I would hope that the designs that I'm part of get more people on bikes.
00:52:42.480 --> 00:52:42.719
Yes.
00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:43.199
Right.
00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:51.199
So if I could do something to help bikes be more wanted, more lusted after, uh, that would be fantastic.
00:52:51.599 --> 00:52:51.920
Absolutely.
00:52:52.159 --> 00:52:54.079
We know, Ben, that bikes can save the planet.
00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:54.719
Absolutely.
00:52:55.280 --> 00:52:59.519
If we got out of our cars and into our bikes, it'd be we'd be healthier.
00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:00.960
There'd be less cars on the road.
00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:02.800
It's it's a win-win-win.
00:53:03.039 --> 00:53:05.119
I think your work has done that and continues to do that.
00:53:05.280 --> 00:53:05.440
Yeah.
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:09.280
Because it strikes that chord of like, I want that, I see what it can do.
00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:12.159
It makes me want to move my body and good things happen.
00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:18.559
And we've been very fortunate that Mike has allowed us to have a a playground to do that.
00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:19.039
Absolutely.
00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:19.440
Right.
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:23.679
He's supported probably the best innovation lab in the bike industry.
00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:24.159
Yeah.
00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:25.440
Maybe in the history of time.
00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:34.239
I feel very fortunate to come here when it was just uh a brazing torch and a tube miter to where we are today.
00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:34.559
Yes.
00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:41.039
You know, both of us, we've been I've been luckier, but we've got to see so much innovation in the bike industry.
00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:46.320
You know, I when when I started here, there was no suspension on bicycles, right?
00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:48.480
There was no arrow wheels.
00:53:48.800 --> 00:53:55.360
Matter of fact, one of my first projects was working with DuPont on the tri-spoke wheel, which was amazing, right?
00:53:55.599 --> 00:53:59.280
Amazing to work with, you know, that level of expertise.
00:53:59.440 --> 00:54:00.000
What else?
00:54:00.239 --> 00:54:02.719
Helmets that you walk around, you don't even know they're on your head.
00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:03.360
That's it.
00:54:03.679 --> 00:54:04.159
That's it.
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:05.840
And always, you know, at the same time.
00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:11.360
So there's all this change, and also the constant, which seems to be a theme, like in what you're saying.
00:54:11.519 --> 00:54:31.920
The constant is whether you're on a bike that's more like a spaceship than than they used to be, or you're on a bike that you put together yourself out of parts that your dad brought home from the from the garbage dump, like the feeling of freedom and moving through space, balancing on a bike, the magic of a bicycle is constant.
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:36.719
Well, I I feel fortunate to uh never had to grow up.
00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:38.000
Yeah, exactly.
00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:39.760
Never had a real job, never had to grow up.
00:54:39.920 --> 00:54:41.840
No, this doesn't feel like a job.
00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:43.440
Right on, Robert.
00:54:43.599 --> 00:54:45.280
Any last things you want to share with the audience?
00:54:45.679 --> 00:54:50.480
I would say jump on your bike and ride as far and as fast as you can.
00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:51.280
Perfect.
00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:52.079
Right on.
00:54:52.239 --> 00:54:53.679
Well, hey, thanks for tuning in.
00:54:53.840 --> 00:54:57.440
If you made it this far, want to really appreciate you for doing so.
00:54:57.599 --> 00:55:02.639
And if you liked it, you know, like the show, subscribe, let other people know.
00:55:02.800 --> 00:55:08.000
If you're listening to us, you could check it out on YouTube if you want to see the faces behind the voices.
00:55:08.159 --> 00:55:09.840
And otherwise, tune in next time.
00:55:09.920 --> 00:55:13.599
And until then, ride your bike, have fun, keep the rubber side down.