DAVID HILL
Happy Wednesday and welcome to the show. I'm your host, David Hill. Last week was RubyConf in Las Vegas, which I really enjoyed. And one of the great things about these conferences are the opportunities to meet with old Ruby friends and meet some new ones. And today's guest is one of my new Ruby friends, Neha Abraham. Thank you for joining me today, Neha.
NEHA ABRAHAM
I'm excited to be here. Thank you for having me. This is crazy. I'm like so in disbelief still. That's what's happening.
DAVID HILL
Why? What are you in disbelief about?
NEHA ABRAHAM
I don't know. Getting to meet you and I know who you are and being on this podcast is crazy to me.
DAVID HILL
You gave a really interesting talk at RubyConf. So for me, it's just kind of like I look at the conferences and those talks and it's kind of like, ooh, I want to talk to that person more. And I have a podcast. It's a legitimate excuse for me to go talk to that person some more.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Well, I'm honored and I'm shaking.
DAVID HILL
Well, so let's back up a little bit before we talk about RubyConf. Because over the course of conversations and everything at the conference, it kind of came out that your educational background is very eclectic. It wasn't a straight line to, I'm just going to do computer programming.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Not at all.
DAVID HILL
at all. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that and how you wound up in Ruby towards the end there.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah, so I never ever thought I would be a software developer growing up. It was not even on my list of like potential careers I would have thought for myself. I had no interest in programming. I had people in my life that were in technology, but it just seemed like it was a job and not necessarily a passion or something fun. So I was like, yeah, it doesn't really interest me. And I never really looked into it after that. during my childhood growing up. But in college, I went to school for molecular biology and I had this whole like 10, 12 year plan where I was going to graduate with molecular biology and biochemistry minor and go into a PhD program for pharmacology and toxicology and become like a drug discovery scientist.
DAVID HILL
So you're just like a legitimately smart person is what you're telling me.
NEHA ABRAHAM
I am smart at some things. Yes. But like that was my whole plan. And it was second semester freshman year. I had a lot of in the dorm floor mates who were in engineering. They were engineering majors and all of them had to take a programming class as part of their major. And so it seemed interesting. And I was like, you know what, I'll just take one as an elective, a really intro course, just to have something to put on my resume to like maybe stand out a little bit. And so I took intro to programming in Java and it wasn't even a 101 class. I think it was like a zero zero class, like very basic. This is what programming is kind of thing. But I loved it. I ended up just enjoying it so much. The first program I made was a command line. Essentially, it was a calculator, but not a full scale. It was. a coffee menu and through the terminal you would select which items you wanted to order and the quantity and then the program would calculate the total with tax and tip and all that and that was the whole program I made half of my dorm floor play that play I guess it was a game for me because it was so fun but that was the first time I had ever coded anything and it was so much fun I just loved it and I just kept taking computer science courses after that. It was so much more creative than I expected it to be. I really love that aspect of it where there's like logic and rules, but it's also a way to express your thoughts. And that combination, it was something I didn't get from the science bio side of things. Bio was very fun. I still very much enjoy like reading about different molecular pathways and, you know. pathways in the body and stuff like that, I think it's very interesting. But I found that with computer science and programming, I could actually physically or digitally actually make something. That was very fun for me. And so I just kept taking computer science courses. Around this time, I was also really struggling with my mental health. I was fighting with depression and anxiety. It was pretty bad. And so I switched to being a part -time student. Started working part -time at the university, doing like help desk kind of stuff for one of their departments that was computational biology. So it kind of married the worlds for me. And then eventually it became very clear to me that I was not getting better by being in school and really needed to take a step away from classes. And so I joined on full -time and that was when I built my first Rails application. The department was a joint department between the University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon University. And most universities have some kind of online classroom management systems, usually Blackboard, or there's a ton of them out there. But because they were two separate universities, they didn't have one joint program online because they were owned separately. So they asked me to build something for their classes because the graduate program was a joint program between the universities. And so they gave me like free range. They said, build it however you want. We just need something so that students can upload assignments by a due date and professors can like post them, stuff like that. They gave me all the requirements.
DAVID HILL
gave me all the requirements. I was like,
NEHA ABRAHAM
like, okay, I'm going to build this in Rails because I had heard some things about Ruby on Rails and how fun it was and how. quick it is to spin something up and they needed it soon. So I was like, okay, I'm going to do Ruby on Rails. And I followed the Michael Hartle tutorial that was online like forever ago. And yeah, I think a lot of people, that was their introduction and that was my introduction and I loved it. It was so much fun. And that was my first larger application that I ever built. And from there, you know, I eventually left there and hopped around a few startups and smaller companies. Not in Rails. Some in PHP, there was some Java, there was some Django and Python, some Perl. And I was at a point where I just wasn't happy going to work and I wasn't getting anything out of it other than a salary. I wasn't growing. I didn't enjoy the work I was doing. And so I thought back to when I was happiest doing work and it was when I was... in Ruby and in Rails. And so I just started looking around for Ruby on Rails jobs on Indeed, I think. And power home remodeling was one of the ones that I applied to. And I was accepted and I've joined and I've been there for five years now. It's so much fun.
DAVID HILL
There's a lot that I want to dive into there. Let's kind of start with the mental health side of things. What was it that helped you get to the point where you were able to kind of recognize, okay, I'm doing better. Back on the uphill track of feeling like I'm in a healthier space now.
NEHA ABRAHAM
So recognizing that I was doing better, it took a little bit because I think I was so in my own head, which understandable. But yeah, I think the biggest thing was I was taking care of myself again. When I was at my lowest, I wouldn't even have the energy to like feed myself. Cause I kind of thought like, you know, what was the point?
DAVID HILL
I kind
DAVID HILL
Sometimes I would only eat once a day.
NEHA ABRAHAM
And even then like very small amounts. And I remember one time, one of my roommates, she was really concerned about me. And she told me like, sometimes I listen outside the bathroom when you're showering to make sure that you're still there.
NEHA ABRAHAM
And I knew something was wrong. I didn't know that specifically it was depression. Cause I, Didn't necessarily feel sad because that's what I thought it was. I think nowadays there's a lot more awareness of how depression can present itself. But this was like more than 10 years ago. And so I think a lot of the awareness was still only just starting.
DAVID HILL
For me, it was a lot of just being in a fog and feeling nothing, just emptiness.
NEHA ABRAHAM
feeling nothing, just emptiness. And then also. not taking care of myself, and also just so angry. I was really angry at myself for not just getting up and doing the thing. I just didn't understand why I couldn't. I was very angry at myself for all of that. So I think when I was able to start really talking about this outside of therapy to people and explain what I was going through and...
DAVID HILL
was going through and...
NEHA ABRAHAM
I also had anxiety along with depression. I would sit in class and just put all of my energy into focusing on breathing so that I wouldn't spiral. And so I couldn't pay attention to anything because all of my energy was going into just not having an anxiety attack, which just stressed me out even more.
DAVID HILL
just stressed
NEHA ABRAHAM
I used the bus system a lot when I was at University of Pittsburgh, and I remember having a panic attack on the bus and just... freaking out crying on the bus to myself being like why am I crying like what's happening or just walking down the sidewalk and having catastrophic type thoughts where I'd be like what if this car just hits me very unrealistic things that were just always on my mind or I'd be sitting in a living room or something I'm like oh my god what if the ceiling caves in on me right now you know just I just couldn't help it and Every now and then I still struggle with those kinds of anxious thoughts, but not to the extent that I did back then. And so when I was able to, you know, just run an errand or go get groceries without catastrophizing, I think was when I realized I was getting a lot better.
DAVID HILL
Yeah.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah. Okay.
DAVID HILL
It looks like from seeing you at RubyConf across multiple days, seeing you get up on stage and give a talk. I would assume you're doing much better than you were at that low point in your life.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Much, much better. It was a little more than 10 years ago. It's been over a decade since then.
DAVID HILL
Time is the worst. I look at my kids.
DAVID HILL
my kids. I'm just kind of like, wait, how are you this old? You're still supposed to be a tiny baby.
NEHA ABRAHAM
My son is now three and a half. And literally yesterday, I was watching him just run around and just be a kid. And I'm like... I still remember when he was in the hospital when he was just born and this tiny little jelly bean.
DAVID HILL
still remember when he was in the hospital when he was just born and this tiny
NEHA ABRAHAM
little jelly bean. And now he's a whole kid.
DAVID HILL
Yep. He's only going to get bigger.
NEHA ABRAHAM
I know. He's going to be taller than me for sure. I'm only five feet tall, so that's not much of an achievement, but he will be taller than me.
DAVID HILL
My son has caught me. He's within millimeters of me now. And he's 14, so he's not done yet.
NEHA ABRAHAM
He's going to gloat so much when he does get taller than you. My younger cousins.
DAVID HILL
My younger cousins. Yeah.
NEHA ABRAHAM
The second they were taller than me, even now, and they're like in their 20s now, but even now they're like, oh, we're taller than our older cousin. I'm like, all right.
DAVID HILL
older cousin.
DAVID HILL
Yeah. I gloated when I was taller than my mom and she responded with, I'm still tall enough to stand on a chair and look down at you. So you do what you got to do as a parent. Yeah. So you kind of mentioned that you're working at Power Home Remodeling. Could you talk a little bit about that and about what they do and what you do at Power Home Remodeling?
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yes, so Power Home Remodeling, on paper, is exterior home remodeling company. We do windows, siding, roofing, doors, gutters, attic insulation, solar in some territories. And that is what we do. That is how we make our money. Inside those walls, we are a full tech company in a really crazy way. We build everything ourselves. And by everything, I mean everything. We have our own data centers. We have our own deployment CICD system. We built our own chat app. We don't use Jira. We have our own app for that. Everything in our house, in -house. Anything to do with the business runs through our monolith called Nitro. And so all developers at power are called Nitro developers because that's mainly what we work on. And we've got some satellite applications, but the main thing is Nitro. And that powers everything from HR to sales and revenue, our call center, scheduling, travel requests, reimbursements. When I submit PTO, it's through Nitro. The whole company is powered by Nitro. Wow. Yeah, it's crazy. Also really fun because we get to learn so many things and we have people who are really just experts in those domains. And you could change teams and then become an expert in a new domain. And it's really cool that we've custom built everything for us. And it works for us. We're at like over 4 billion in revenue now per year. It's crazy how much money empowered me.
DAVID HILL
It's like the ultimate dogfooding story. Like everything that you build is being used. internally by somebody.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yes, absolutely. And we don't have to worry about third party vendors and contracts and stuff like that. It's really incredible. I work on a team with data analysts. It's mostly comprised of data analysts and developers. We also have a really amazing UX designer and QA. And we work on dashboards and analytics for the company. So we do really data intensive. dashboards for leadership to make decisions based on historical or current data, whether it's more revenue related or if it's turnover related, project stats, all kinds of things. And so we get to work across a lot of different domains in the business. So we end up learning a lot about the business in that way. Every day is a new challenge because of that. It's really cool. And we don't use any third party. system for that. We're building it all in Ruby on Rails.
DAVID HILL
I'm sure someone at some point will call me for saying this, but you're not using Jira, which is already a huge step up in my book. I don't like Jira.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah, we have our own platform called Runway and it just works. We have a team that works on that and maintains it. It's integrated with our chat application called Connect. We've got a few teams on Connect. And a lot of what we take is at the root, it's something open source that we fork over and then customize it to what we need. But it's so fun.
DAVID HILL
So fun.
NEHA ABRAHAM
And I love seeing the faces of people who are like, what do you mean you have your own data center? What do you mean you don't use AWS? It's like, yeah, we don't. And it works.
DAVID HILL
That's awesome. I was aware of power home remodeling. They had a really big presence at RailsConf last year.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yes. So this is what happened. I went to RubyConf Chicago with three other teammates,
DAVID HILL
So this is what happened.
NEHA ABRAHAM
three of my coworkers at Power who are all amazing. And they announced at RubyConf Chicago that Philadelphia was going to be the location of the last RailsConf.
DAVID HILL
Right. And the four of us were like,
NEHA ABRAHAM
And the four of us were like, we have to get involved. Power is headquartered right outside of Philadelphia. A lot of our companies based there. And we are a huge Rails shop and we just have to get involved. So we got Ruby Central board in touch with our VP, Jenny Gray, who is amazing. She's an institution at Power and MBT and she's incredible. And she had this absolutely insane idea to send every single one of our developers to RailsConf. Wow. As part of our... bi -annual on -site we have an on -site twice a year called create and we get the entire department together she said okay we're going to use that to send all of our developers to railsconf and then everyone who's not a developer is going to do like a camp style bonding thing and so we had i think it was 98 it was either 98 or 100 and it was about 100 developers at railsconf last year and yeah i know it was a mistake and then They got us all matching shirts too. So we just flooded the place basically. And people would come up to us and be like, what is your company? What are you? Who are you? What's going on? Why are there so many of you? And it was such a strategic move and it really paid off because people know who we are. They know we're a Rails shop. We hired, I think, four or five really great developers from meeting them at RailsConf and have now been getting referrals from other people who knew us from RailsConf. And yeah,
DAVID HILL
yeah, we took over. It was great.
NEHA ABRAHAM
It was really fun. And I think it also really paid off for the people. At Power, who are developers who had never been to a conference before, they came to a really big one, but they were there with their teammates with a familiar face. So it was less intimidating to go to such a big conference like that with your friends and people that you know. For a lot of the time, it's their first exposure to the Ruby and the Rails world at large because we have a lot of developers that come through our internal code academy. And so their only exposure to technology is Power. And so now they could see... what's going on outside of our walls and learn from other company experiences. So that was very cool.
DAVID HILL
So not only do you guys have your own data centers and your own JIRA substitution and chat app, you also have your own kind of internal bootcamp to teach people to code?
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah, yeah. It's called Power Code Academy. It's incredible. We take, I think, around six students a year and there's like an application process. You have to have been at power. I think, I forget what the tenure requirement is. I think it's a year or something. And being good standing in your role and with your VP and then you apply and there's a little interview process and stuff like that. And then we select six and it's a bootcamp. So there's six months of learning how to program and learning Ruby on Rails. And then there's a six month apprenticeship where they're put together on like a small team with each other and they just learn how to contribute to real life things. in nitro and to our company and then they have a i forget if it's one year or two years they become associate developers and they're put on feature teams and learn from their teammates and it's amazing we've done this program for several years now and each class is named after something comic bookie after a letter we're on the g class now it's like gamma force or something is what this class is called
DAVID HILL
from their
NEHA ABRAHAM
teammates and it's amazing we've done this program for several years now and each class is named after something comic bookie after a letter we're on the g class now it's like gamma force or something is what this class is called And there's some incredible developers right now. Our authorization system, it's called Nitro ID,
NEHA ABRAHAM
it's called Nitro ID, was built by a graduate of our code academy. And she's now a lead developer. Wow. Yeah, she's amazing. Her name is Katie Edgar. Go look her up. She's awesome.
DAVID HILL
Clearly, I need to look into power home remodeling more.
NEHA ABRAHAM
We're awesome. I love it there. I tell everyone. No one believes me at first because anytime someone talks to someone who works at Power, they're like, okay, whatever. You guys are like brainwashed. But then they see it. When I interviewed at Power, I told the manager who was interviewing me that it sounded like a cult.
DAVID HILL
And he goes,
NEHA ABRAHAM
goes, yeah, in a good way.
DAVID HILL
In a good way. A good cult.
NEHA ABRAHAM
And honestly, five years in, whether it's a cult or not, I've drank the Kool -Aid. I'm all in. I love power. It's the best.
DAVID HILL
The cult thing isn't the impression that I had. It was just more like what you and what Power Home Remodeling are doing feels so outside of the norm because I don't think I've ever had an employer who does that, who builds everything internal, who has a program built into the company where someone can enter the engineering track and be taught how to do this job. and graduate into the engineering department. I've never seen a company that does that in the modern era of corporate America.
NEHA ABRAHAM
I have not either. And I think it really speaks to how much we invest back into our people. I think that's the biggest draw for me. Why I love working here so much is that they really care about the people. Every company says we care about you, we're a family, but they walk the walk.
DAVID HILL
Everyone can say that. It's what you do to prove it.
NEHA ABRAHAM
can say
NEHA ABRAHAM
Leadership is really great about listening to employee feedback and acting on it afterwards and not just, yeah, tell us what you need and then we'll get to it at some point. They actively try to make our lives better. And I see that at every level and not just in the technology department. I see that throughout the company. And it's incredible to see how much you can. Affect people's lives in a good way and also be a really successful business when you just care about your people. It's not only that people are happy to work here. People are making money. The company is making money. It's profitable to care. Imagine that. I think it's been on like the best places to work list consistently in the top whatever for several years now.
DAVID HILL
That's probably quite an achievement, I imagine.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yes, yes, very much so. I could talk forever about power.
DAVID HILL
So one of the other things I discovered about you at RubyConf is that we kind of had a similar experience with a fellow Rubyist named Alan Reidelhoover. He gave this lightning talk, I think it was last year at RailsConf, where he was talking about fear and trust and those types of concepts. I was chatting with him. I think it was RubyConf the previous year where he kind of told me the idea of this lightning talk before he actually gave it. And it had a pretty profound impact on me like that day. But then it turns out that you also had a kind of profound experience with that lightning talk when he finally gave it. I was wondering if you could talk about that a little bit.
NEHA ABRAHAM
That five minute lightning talk changed my entire year and personal life too since then. So this was at RailsConf last year, and I'm sitting there watching this talk, and I realized how deeply I identified with it and how much it spoke to me. And he talked about living in fear, and I just identified with that so much, just partially with the mental health side, especially with dealing with anxiety. And I just remember one of the quotes that he said from, I forget who it was attributed to, but it was something like, Everything you've ever wanted lives on the other side of fear. I started getting teary -eyed just in that moment. It really spoke to me. And, you know, Alan continued on that trust is the vaccine to fear. And trusting in yourself, trusting in your community. It had such an impact on me in the moment, emotionally. I remember going up to him, like, yeah, great talk. And I didn't see him after that. And I messaged him again on LinkedIn afterwards, just to like, listen, that talk was amazing. And it's something that I just kept thinking about. And I started doing things that I was scared to do.
NEHA ABRAHAM
doing things that I was scared to do. And when it came time around the end of last year, I was starting to think about my goals for the next year. New Year's resolution, that kind of stuff. And I remembered his talk and I said, I'm going to trust in myself and do the scary things and we'll see what happens. And as a result of those five minutes,
DAVID HILL
a result of
NEHA ABRAHAM
those five minutes, I have been promoted. I've been a speaker at conferences. I'm at this podcast. I ran a 5K. I am more experimental with some of my recipes. I have more leadership at work. I've been just taking on more and being successful. And I saw that he was going to be a speaker at this RubyConf.
NEHA ABRAHAM
saw that he was going to be a speaker at this RubyConf. I saw him at the speaker dinner. And I was like, I have to let him know how much he's impacted my life. And I actually saw him earlier in the day at Soundcheck. And I was like, hey, this is my shot. I'm going to tell him. And then I totally panicked and ran away.
DAVID HILL
like no I can't I'm too scared ironically and then I spent like the next couple hours in between that and the speaker dinner just psyching myself up and like rehearsing what I was going to say to him and then right before I leave the speaker dinner I go up to Alan and he was in the middle of a conversation with his group and I'm like I'm just gonna do it and you know I tapped him on the shoulder and he's like oh hello and I was like hi
NEHA ABRAHAM
hours in between that and the speaker dinner just psyching myself up and like rehearsing what I was going to say to him and then right
DAVID HILL
before I leave the speaker
NEHA ABRAHAM
dinner I go up to Alan and he was in the middle of a conversation with his group and I'm like I'm just gonna do it and you know I tapped him on the shoulder and he's like oh hello and I was like hi I just started word vomiting everything. I forgot everything I rehearsed to myself. And I started getting emotional and teary. And then I saw he was getting emotional and teary.
DAVID HILL
emotional and teary. And then I just told him how much that talk meant to me, how much it changed my life, and how much of an impact it's had on me without knowing it.
NEHA ABRAHAM
life, and how much of an impact it's had on me without knowing it. And he's getting teary. I was like, can I give you a hug? I was like, yes, of course. God, it meant so much to me to just be able to share with him how much he's helped me. And I'm just so excited for his future talks.
NEHA ABRAHAM
just so excited for his future talks. He gave a talk this time about being happier and about being seen and seeing others and community. And I love his talks,
DAVID HILL
his talks, whether they're like full -fledged.
NEHA ABRAHAM
session or a lightning talk he is an excellent speaker and he's very vulnerable with what he goes through and that has big impact and it did on me and it really changed the last year for me it would have been a much different trajectory I think not in a negative way I think I was comfortable where I was and that's fine but
DAVID HILL
through and that
NEHA ABRAHAM
big impact and it did on me and it really changed the last year for me it
DAVID HILL
would have been a
NEHA ABRAHAM
much different trajectory I think not in a negative way I think I was comfortable where I was and that's fine but
NEHA ABRAHAM
I've challenged myself a lot this last year, and it's a lot in part to just hearing Alan's voice in my head saying trust is the vaccine to fear and just remembering what he said and just really intentionally trying to do the things that scare me.
DAVID HILL
I love that. So one of your New Year's resolutions was to speak at conferences? Yes. And I believe I heard you say that you had spoken at a conference earlier in the year.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
DAVID HILL
But really, Tom was kind of a stretch goal for you.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Tom was kind of a stretch goal for you. Originally, my goal was just to apply to some conferences. But then I saw the few conferences that I did want to apply to. The CFP closed like January 7th.
DAVID HILL
Okay, I'll try it and actually speak at one.
NEHA ABRAHAM
And then I was accepted to Blue Ridge Ruby and Blastoff Rails in Albuquerque.
DAVID HILL
in Albuquerque.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Albuquerque. I couldn't make it to Blue Ridge because childcare ended up falling through,
DAVID HILL
Blue Ridge because
NEHA ABRAHAM
childcare ended up falling through, but I did go to Blastoff and I went with a few coworkers and I had such a great time. I really loved the small conference vibes because you could really build on relationships. I think there were maybe 40 people there, but we saw the same people throughout the day and into the evening for two days.
DAVID HILL
days. So you got to build on that introduction. Whereas a really big conference,
NEHA ABRAHAM
a really big conference, you might see someone, have some small chat for like 10 minutes, and then you might not see them the rest of the week. But a small conference like that, you can really build on that relationship over the course of a day or two. So I really enjoyed that. And there were some great talks there. And Travis Doctor, he took on so much and did a great job. He killed it. I'm very excited for next year to see if I can go again. He did a great job. So just props to... Travis, but that was my first conference that I spoke at. And I'm so glad there was a podium because I was holding onto it to keep me upright. I was shaking. I was so nervous, but it went really well. I got some good feedback. And then I had also applied to RubyConf and I was waitlisted. And even that I was over the moon with just being waitlisted because just these are my idols and heroes that.
DAVID HILL
the moon with just being
NEHA ABRAHAM
just being waitlisted because just these are my idols and
DAVID HILL
idols and heroes that.
NEHA ABRAHAM
speak at RubyConf. And now to be potentially at that same plane of them, it was crazy. And then a month before RubyConf, I got the email saying like, hey, you want to speak? And I was like, yes. Oh my God.
DAVID HILL
Did you give the same talk at Blastoff as at RubyConf or was it a different talk? You did,
NEHA ABRAHAM
You did, yes. It was that same talk that I had submitted for both. And so I think that was great for me because I had done it once before Recomp. I think if it was my first time ever doing that talk, I would have maybe passed out on stage. It ended up going really well.
DAVID HILL
What was the topic for your talk? What was that about?
NEHA ABRAHAM
So it was all about data aggregation in Rails applications in order to speed up really data heavy pages. Because that's what I do. That is my job at work is build really... performant pages that rely on a lot of data and calculations and queries and just make it fast, make it usable. Yeah, I build dashboards all day. And we've learned a lot in the last three, four years that we've been implementing these patterns. And I thought it would be fun to share. And the first time I did this talk was a much more streamlined version internally. We do monthly tech talks like Lunch and Learns at Power. And so I did a short version there and then I expanded upon it for Blastoff and RubyConf. And then I did it again on Tuesday this week for the Philly Ruby meetup.
DAVID HILL
So how do you think it went?
NEHA ABRAHAM
I think it went great. I was really nervous, of course. I'm just always anxious. It's the truth I've accepted. But it means that in actual crisis modes that I'm just normal, which is great. I can think clearly because I'm always panic. It's like, you know, the Hulk. He's like, what's my secret? I'm always angry. I'm always panicked.
DAVID HILL
always angry. I'm always panicked. From the outside looking in, at no point did I look at you and think, wow, she's really panicked. You seemed fine.
NEHA ABRAHAM
I mask really well. But yeah, it went great. There was a slight pickup before where they didn't have my fonts, but the production team was excellent. They like switched it out real quick. And then my slides look normal again. And yeah, they were great. It was my first time being wired up for a mic.
DAVID HILL
It was
NEHA ABRAHAM
And that was very exciting. But also I was so embarrassed because like I was wearing a jumpsuit and I was so sweaty from being anxious. And this poor guy is like trying to wire the microphone. I'm so sorry. I'm really sweaty right now. But it was fine.
DAVID HILL
I can only imagine the things that like the tech guys at these types of events have had to, I imagine they've had to deal with so much more and worse. Yeah, they were great.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah, they were great. They were incredibly professional. They were really encouraging me and cheering me on beforehand and afterwards. They were great.
DAVID HILL
So one of the activities at RubyConf was a game night. And anyone who knows me knows I'm a big board game nerd. see the video feed. I like my board games. And so I brought a couple of games with me to RubyConf and Naya shows up to game night to play. It's a five round game that we were playing. I feel like we got to like round three and you were still kind of struggling to really grok the game and how it works. And then all of a sudden it clicked and you, you were maniacal.
NEHA ABRAHAM
It's amazing. So the game was Rebel Princesses. So much fun.
DAVID HILL
much fun. Go buy it. It's awesome.
NEHA ABRAHAM
I really, like the first three minutes, I had no idea what was going on. I was trying to figure out like my strategy and it was just not working for me. And then I realized there is no strategy because the rules change every single round. So it's a lot of improvisation. And I was like, okay, I can do that. And then I became very strategic in my decisions. And there was one point where David was about to win because he had the fewest points. And then within the next two rounds, he had all of the points because I strategically sacrificed some points for myself so that I would gain a few points and then he would gain like 20.
NEHA ABRAHAM
So, oh my God, I really flipped the table. It was so satisfying.
NEHA ABRAHAM
David learned how evil I could be that day. It was great.
DAVID HILL
I wasn't. gonna phrase it like that i'll phrase it like that it was very evil the thing that i learned was that i brought the right game to that game night 100 it was fantastic everyone at the table once they all kind of we played a round or two of it everyone started to kind of get it and get into it
NEHA ABRAHAM
phrase it like that it was very evil the
DAVID HILL
thing that i learned was that i brought the right game to that game night 100
NEHA ABRAHAM
100 it was fantastic everyone
DAVID HILL
was fantastic everyone at the table once they all kind of we played a round or two of it everyone started to kind of get it and get into it For you in particular, when I saw the light go on, I could practically see the fire in your eyes. I was vibrating with excitement.
NEHA ABRAHAM
was vibrating with excitement.
DAVID HILL
You were going to go for it. The tremendous loss, swinging from first place to last place within the last round and a half. It felt horrible as a player, but as the person who brought the game to introduce to a whole bunch of people who had never played it before, it was like, oh, this is exactly the experience I want. Yes. You taught me well.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yes. You taught me well. It was very much a Darth Vader moment in a way. The Sith, you know, there can only be two, but there can only be one.
DAVID HILL
So now we're just going from Star Wars to Highlander. But yeah, that was... Such a fun experience. It was very fun.
NEHA ABRAHAM
very fun.
DAVID HILL
You made my night. Everybody else at the table was great and participating and were having fun. But that experience was the part that jumps out in my memory when I think about it. Being completely taken down by a newcomer?
NEHA ABRAHAM
completely taken down by a newcomer? Yeah.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah. This game, I swear, it's rival princesses. Seriously, go get it. It's great. Once you understand the gist of how to play, it's so fun. You have to be really like... devious in a way. It's just mischief in a game and chaos, but controlled. It's wonderful. I loved it.
DAVID HILL
Mischief and chaos is a great way to put it. Yeah. It's essentially a themed version of hearts with some extra wrinkles thrown on top to make it chaos.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah, it was great. I very much enjoyed it.
DAVID HILL
Is there anything else you'd like to talk about related to Ruby or Rails or anything like that before we bring it to a close?
NEHA ABRAHAM
that before we bring it to a close? Yeah, I'm working on a V2 of my talk about data aggregation. So V1, the one that I've presented was more about this is what aggregation is and this is why you should do it. Now I'm working on a V2 where this is how you can do it. And I'm going to have a companion sample application all about dinosaurs. And it's all going to be dinosaur data inspired by my son who is obsessed with dinosaurs.
DAVID HILL
Three -year -old czar.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yes, absolutely. He recently, for the last about a year, it's been lava T -Rexes specifically. Again, I don't know where he got that, but props for the creativity. Now it's ice dinos that can blow ice at you, and then you have to freeze.
DAVID HILL
And then when they're looking away,
NEHA ABRAHAM
then when they're looking away, you have to wiggle out and escape. I feel like in a few years,
DAVID HILL
feel like in a few years, he's going to discover Dungeons and Dragons and then dragons. He'll migrate into that.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Maybe. Yeah. Oh my God. I can't wait. It can be so fun. I love watching him, his interests and his personality really come through and see who he's going to be as a person. It's so fun.
DAVID HILL
Yep. So, sorry, I derailed you. So version two of your talk.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yes, it will be a how -to guide of setting up analytics in Rails applications with no third -party vendor. Just how we've been doing it, but also how you can do it if you don't have our exact setup at Power. And I'm going to try and maybe do like a skills file that you can give your agents to implement some of the patterns. So keep an eye out for future talk.
DAVID HILL
That sounds really fascinating. I will definitely be keeping my eyes open for that.
NEHA ABRAHAM
I'll share it whenever it comes out.
DAVID HILL
Awesome. Well, thank you for coming on the show with me today, Nea.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Thank you for having me. It's been very fun. I'm like shaking still, but in a fun way. Like the anxiety is there, but it was fun. I had a good time.
DAVID HILL
I'm glad. This has been the Ruby on Rails podcast. It was a pleasure talking with Neha today. Thank you for listening.
Happy Wednesday and welcome to the show. I'm your host, David Hill. Last week was RubyConf in Las Vegas, which I really enjoyed. And one of the great things about these conferences are the opportunities to meet with old Ruby friends and meet some new ones. And today's guest is one of my new Ruby friends, Neha Abraham. Thank you for joining me today, Neha.
NEHA ABRAHAM
I'm excited to be here. Thank you for having me. This is crazy. I'm like so in disbelief still. That's what's happening.
DAVID HILL
Why? What are you in disbelief about?
NEHA ABRAHAM
I don't know. Getting to meet you and I know who you are and being on this podcast is crazy to me.
DAVID HILL
You gave a really interesting talk at RubyConf. So for me, it's just kind of like I look at the conferences and those talks and it's kind of like, ooh, I want to talk to that person more. And I have a podcast. It's a legitimate excuse for me to go talk to that person some more.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Well, I'm honored and I'm shaking.
DAVID HILL
Well, so let's back up a little bit before we talk about RubyConf. Because over the course of conversations and everything at the conference, it kind of came out that your educational background is very eclectic. It wasn't a straight line to, I'm just going to do computer programming.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Not at all.
DAVID HILL
at all. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that and how you wound up in Ruby towards the end there.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah, so I never ever thought I would be a software developer growing up. It was not even on my list of like potential careers I would have thought for myself. I had no interest in programming. I had people in my life that were in technology, but it just seemed like it was a job and not necessarily a passion or something fun. So I was like, yeah, it doesn't really interest me. And I never really looked into it after that. during my childhood growing up. But in college, I went to school for molecular biology and I had this whole like 10, 12 year plan where I was going to graduate with molecular biology and biochemistry minor and go into a PhD program for pharmacology and toxicology and become like a drug discovery scientist.
DAVID HILL
So you're just like a legitimately smart person is what you're telling me.
NEHA ABRAHAM
I am smart at some things. Yes. But like that was my whole plan. And it was second semester freshman year. I had a lot of in the dorm floor mates who were in engineering. They were engineering majors and all of them had to take a programming class as part of their major. And so it seemed interesting. And I was like, you know what, I'll just take one as an elective, a really intro course, just to have something to put on my resume to like maybe stand out a little bit. And so I took intro to programming in Java and it wasn't even a 101 class. I think it was like a zero zero class, like very basic. This is what programming is kind of thing. But I loved it. I ended up just enjoying it so much. The first program I made was a command line. Essentially, it was a calculator, but not a full scale. It was. a coffee menu and through the terminal you would select which items you wanted to order and the quantity and then the program would calculate the total with tax and tip and all that and that was the whole program I made half of my dorm floor play that play I guess it was a game for me because it was so fun but that was the first time I had ever coded anything and it was so much fun I just loved it and I just kept taking computer science courses after that. It was so much more creative than I expected it to be. I really love that aspect of it where there's like logic and rules, but it's also a way to express your thoughts. And that combination, it was something I didn't get from the science bio side of things. Bio was very fun. I still very much enjoy like reading about different molecular pathways and, you know. pathways in the body and stuff like that, I think it's very interesting. But I found that with computer science and programming, I could actually physically or digitally actually make something. That was very fun for me. And so I just kept taking computer science courses. Around this time, I was also really struggling with my mental health. I was fighting with depression and anxiety. It was pretty bad. And so I switched to being a part -time student. Started working part -time at the university, doing like help desk kind of stuff for one of their departments that was computational biology. So it kind of married the worlds for me. And then eventually it became very clear to me that I was not getting better by being in school and really needed to take a step away from classes. And so I joined on full -time and that was when I built my first Rails application. The department was a joint department between the University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon University. And most universities have some kind of online classroom management systems, usually Blackboard, or there's a ton of them out there. But because they were two separate universities, they didn't have one joint program online because they were owned separately. So they asked me to build something for their classes because the graduate program was a joint program between the universities. And so they gave me like free range. They said, build it however you want. We just need something so that students can upload assignments by a due date and professors can like post them, stuff like that. They gave me all the requirements.
DAVID HILL
gave me all the requirements. I was like,
NEHA ABRAHAM
like, okay, I'm going to build this in Rails because I had heard some things about Ruby on Rails and how fun it was and how. quick it is to spin something up and they needed it soon. So I was like, okay, I'm going to do Ruby on Rails. And I followed the Michael Hartle tutorial that was online like forever ago. And yeah, I think a lot of people, that was their introduction and that was my introduction and I loved it. It was so much fun. And that was my first larger application that I ever built. And from there, you know, I eventually left there and hopped around a few startups and smaller companies. Not in Rails. Some in PHP, there was some Java, there was some Django and Python, some Perl. And I was at a point where I just wasn't happy going to work and I wasn't getting anything out of it other than a salary. I wasn't growing. I didn't enjoy the work I was doing. And so I thought back to when I was happiest doing work and it was when I was... in Ruby and in Rails. And so I just started looking around for Ruby on Rails jobs on Indeed, I think. And power home remodeling was one of the ones that I applied to. And I was accepted and I've joined and I've been there for five years now. It's so much fun.
DAVID HILL
There's a lot that I want to dive into there. Let's kind of start with the mental health side of things. What was it that helped you get to the point where you were able to kind of recognize, okay, I'm doing better. Back on the uphill track of feeling like I'm in a healthier space now.
NEHA ABRAHAM
So recognizing that I was doing better, it took a little bit because I think I was so in my own head, which understandable. But yeah, I think the biggest thing was I was taking care of myself again. When I was at my lowest, I wouldn't even have the energy to like feed myself. Cause I kind of thought like, you know, what was the point?
DAVID HILL
I kind
DAVID HILL
Sometimes I would only eat once a day.
NEHA ABRAHAM
And even then like very small amounts. And I remember one time, one of my roommates, she was really concerned about me. And she told me like, sometimes I listen outside the bathroom when you're showering to make sure that you're still there.
NEHA ABRAHAM
And I knew something was wrong. I didn't know that specifically it was depression. Cause I, Didn't necessarily feel sad because that's what I thought it was. I think nowadays there's a lot more awareness of how depression can present itself. But this was like more than 10 years ago. And so I think a lot of the awareness was still only just starting.
DAVID HILL
For me, it was a lot of just being in a fog and feeling nothing, just emptiness.
NEHA ABRAHAM
feeling nothing, just emptiness. And then also. not taking care of myself, and also just so angry. I was really angry at myself for not just getting up and doing the thing. I just didn't understand why I couldn't. I was very angry at myself for all of that. So I think when I was able to start really talking about this outside of therapy to people and explain what I was going through and...
DAVID HILL
was going through and...
NEHA ABRAHAM
I also had anxiety along with depression. I would sit in class and just put all of my energy into focusing on breathing so that I wouldn't spiral. And so I couldn't pay attention to anything because all of my energy was going into just not having an anxiety attack, which just stressed me out even more.
DAVID HILL
just stressed
NEHA ABRAHAM
I used the bus system a lot when I was at University of Pittsburgh, and I remember having a panic attack on the bus and just... freaking out crying on the bus to myself being like why am I crying like what's happening or just walking down the sidewalk and having catastrophic type thoughts where I'd be like what if this car just hits me very unrealistic things that were just always on my mind or I'd be sitting in a living room or something I'm like oh my god what if the ceiling caves in on me right now you know just I just couldn't help it and Every now and then I still struggle with those kinds of anxious thoughts, but not to the extent that I did back then. And so when I was able to, you know, just run an errand or go get groceries without catastrophizing, I think was when I realized I was getting a lot better.
DAVID HILL
Yeah.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah. Okay.
DAVID HILL
It looks like from seeing you at RubyConf across multiple days, seeing you get up on stage and give a talk. I would assume you're doing much better than you were at that low point in your life.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Much, much better. It was a little more than 10 years ago. It's been over a decade since then.
DAVID HILL
Time is the worst. I look at my kids.
DAVID HILL
my kids. I'm just kind of like, wait, how are you this old? You're still supposed to be a tiny baby.
NEHA ABRAHAM
My son is now three and a half. And literally yesterday, I was watching him just run around and just be a kid. And I'm like... I still remember when he was in the hospital when he was just born and this tiny little jelly bean.
DAVID HILL
still remember when he was in the hospital when he was just born and this tiny
NEHA ABRAHAM
little jelly bean. And now he's a whole kid.
DAVID HILL
Yep. He's only going to get bigger.
NEHA ABRAHAM
I know. He's going to be taller than me for sure. I'm only five feet tall, so that's not much of an achievement, but he will be taller than me.
DAVID HILL
My son has caught me. He's within millimeters of me now. And he's 14, so he's not done yet.
NEHA ABRAHAM
He's going to gloat so much when he does get taller than you. My younger cousins.
DAVID HILL
My younger cousins. Yeah.
NEHA ABRAHAM
The second they were taller than me, even now, and they're like in their 20s now, but even now they're like, oh, we're taller than our older cousin. I'm like, all right.
DAVID HILL
older cousin.
DAVID HILL
Yeah. I gloated when I was taller than my mom and she responded with, I'm still tall enough to stand on a chair and look down at you. So you do what you got to do as a parent. Yeah. So you kind of mentioned that you're working at Power Home Remodeling. Could you talk a little bit about that and about what they do and what you do at Power Home Remodeling?
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yes, so Power Home Remodeling, on paper, is exterior home remodeling company. We do windows, siding, roofing, doors, gutters, attic insulation, solar in some territories. And that is what we do. That is how we make our money. Inside those walls, we are a full tech company in a really crazy way. We build everything ourselves. And by everything, I mean everything. We have our own data centers. We have our own deployment CICD system. We built our own chat app. We don't use Jira. We have our own app for that. Everything in our house, in -house. Anything to do with the business runs through our monolith called Nitro. And so all developers at power are called Nitro developers because that's mainly what we work on. And we've got some satellite applications, but the main thing is Nitro. And that powers everything from HR to sales and revenue, our call center, scheduling, travel requests, reimbursements. When I submit PTO, it's through Nitro. The whole company is powered by Nitro. Wow. Yeah, it's crazy. Also really fun because we get to learn so many things and we have people who are really just experts in those domains. And you could change teams and then become an expert in a new domain. And it's really cool that we've custom built everything for us. And it works for us. We're at like over 4 billion in revenue now per year. It's crazy how much money empowered me.
DAVID HILL
It's like the ultimate dogfooding story. Like everything that you build is being used. internally by somebody.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yes, absolutely. And we don't have to worry about third party vendors and contracts and stuff like that. It's really incredible. I work on a team with data analysts. It's mostly comprised of data analysts and developers. We also have a really amazing UX designer and QA. And we work on dashboards and analytics for the company. So we do really data intensive. dashboards for leadership to make decisions based on historical or current data, whether it's more revenue related or if it's turnover related, project stats, all kinds of things. And so we get to work across a lot of different domains in the business. So we end up learning a lot about the business in that way. Every day is a new challenge because of that. It's really cool. And we don't use any third party. system for that. We're building it all in Ruby on Rails.
DAVID HILL
I'm sure someone at some point will call me for saying this, but you're not using Jira, which is already a huge step up in my book. I don't like Jira.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah, we have our own platform called Runway and it just works. We have a team that works on that and maintains it. It's integrated with our chat application called Connect. We've got a few teams on Connect. And a lot of what we take is at the root, it's something open source that we fork over and then customize it to what we need. But it's so fun.
DAVID HILL
So fun.
NEHA ABRAHAM
And I love seeing the faces of people who are like, what do you mean you have your own data center? What do you mean you don't use AWS? It's like, yeah, we don't. And it works.
DAVID HILL
That's awesome. I was aware of power home remodeling. They had a really big presence at RailsConf last year.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yes. So this is what happened. I went to RubyConf Chicago with three other teammates,
DAVID HILL
So this is what happened.
NEHA ABRAHAM
three of my coworkers at Power who are all amazing. And they announced at RubyConf Chicago that Philadelphia was going to be the location of the last RailsConf.
DAVID HILL
Right. And the four of us were like,
NEHA ABRAHAM
And the four of us were like, we have to get involved. Power is headquartered right outside of Philadelphia. A lot of our companies based there. And we are a huge Rails shop and we just have to get involved. So we got Ruby Central board in touch with our VP, Jenny Gray, who is amazing. She's an institution at Power and MBT and she's incredible. And she had this absolutely insane idea to send every single one of our developers to RailsConf. Wow. As part of our... bi -annual on -site we have an on -site twice a year called create and we get the entire department together she said okay we're going to use that to send all of our developers to railsconf and then everyone who's not a developer is going to do like a camp style bonding thing and so we had i think it was 98 it was either 98 or 100 and it was about 100 developers at railsconf last year and yeah i know it was a mistake and then They got us all matching shirts too. So we just flooded the place basically. And people would come up to us and be like, what is your company? What are you? Who are you? What's going on? Why are there so many of you? And it was such a strategic move and it really paid off because people know who we are. They know we're a Rails shop. We hired, I think, four or five really great developers from meeting them at RailsConf and have now been getting referrals from other people who knew us from RailsConf. And yeah,
DAVID HILL
yeah, we took over. It was great.
NEHA ABRAHAM
It was really fun. And I think it also really paid off for the people. At Power, who are developers who had never been to a conference before, they came to a really big one, but they were there with their teammates with a familiar face. So it was less intimidating to go to such a big conference like that with your friends and people that you know. For a lot of the time, it's their first exposure to the Ruby and the Rails world at large because we have a lot of developers that come through our internal code academy. And so their only exposure to technology is Power. And so now they could see... what's going on outside of our walls and learn from other company experiences. So that was very cool.
DAVID HILL
So not only do you guys have your own data centers and your own JIRA substitution and chat app, you also have your own kind of internal bootcamp to teach people to code?
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah, yeah. It's called Power Code Academy. It's incredible. We take, I think, around six students a year and there's like an application process. You have to have been at power. I think, I forget what the tenure requirement is. I think it's a year or something. And being good standing in your role and with your VP and then you apply and there's a little interview process and stuff like that. And then we select six and it's a bootcamp. So there's six months of learning how to program and learning Ruby on Rails. And then there's a six month apprenticeship where they're put together on like a small team with each other and they just learn how to contribute to real life things. in nitro and to our company and then they have a i forget if it's one year or two years they become associate developers and they're put on feature teams and learn from their teammates and it's amazing we've done this program for several years now and each class is named after something comic bookie after a letter we're on the g class now it's like gamma force or something is what this class is called
DAVID HILL
from their
NEHA ABRAHAM
teammates and it's amazing we've done this program for several years now and each class is named after something comic bookie after a letter we're on the g class now it's like gamma force or something is what this class is called And there's some incredible developers right now. Our authorization system, it's called Nitro ID,
NEHA ABRAHAM
it's called Nitro ID, was built by a graduate of our code academy. And she's now a lead developer. Wow. Yeah, she's amazing. Her name is Katie Edgar. Go look her up. She's awesome.
DAVID HILL
Clearly, I need to look into power home remodeling more.
NEHA ABRAHAM
We're awesome. I love it there. I tell everyone. No one believes me at first because anytime someone talks to someone who works at Power, they're like, okay, whatever. You guys are like brainwashed. But then they see it. When I interviewed at Power, I told the manager who was interviewing me that it sounded like a cult.
DAVID HILL
And he goes,
NEHA ABRAHAM
goes, yeah, in a good way.
DAVID HILL
In a good way. A good cult.
NEHA ABRAHAM
And honestly, five years in, whether it's a cult or not, I've drank the Kool -Aid. I'm all in. I love power. It's the best.
DAVID HILL
The cult thing isn't the impression that I had. It was just more like what you and what Power Home Remodeling are doing feels so outside of the norm because I don't think I've ever had an employer who does that, who builds everything internal, who has a program built into the company where someone can enter the engineering track and be taught how to do this job. and graduate into the engineering department. I've never seen a company that does that in the modern era of corporate America.
NEHA ABRAHAM
I have not either. And I think it really speaks to how much we invest back into our people. I think that's the biggest draw for me. Why I love working here so much is that they really care about the people. Every company says we care about you, we're a family, but they walk the walk.
DAVID HILL
Everyone can say that. It's what you do to prove it.
NEHA ABRAHAM
can say
NEHA ABRAHAM
Leadership is really great about listening to employee feedback and acting on it afterwards and not just, yeah, tell us what you need and then we'll get to it at some point. They actively try to make our lives better. And I see that at every level and not just in the technology department. I see that throughout the company. And it's incredible to see how much you can. Affect people's lives in a good way and also be a really successful business when you just care about your people. It's not only that people are happy to work here. People are making money. The company is making money. It's profitable to care. Imagine that. I think it's been on like the best places to work list consistently in the top whatever for several years now.
DAVID HILL
That's probably quite an achievement, I imagine.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yes, yes, very much so. I could talk forever about power.
DAVID HILL
So one of the other things I discovered about you at RubyConf is that we kind of had a similar experience with a fellow Rubyist named Alan Reidelhoover. He gave this lightning talk, I think it was last year at RailsConf, where he was talking about fear and trust and those types of concepts. I was chatting with him. I think it was RubyConf the previous year where he kind of told me the idea of this lightning talk before he actually gave it. And it had a pretty profound impact on me like that day. But then it turns out that you also had a kind of profound experience with that lightning talk when he finally gave it. I was wondering if you could talk about that a little bit.
NEHA ABRAHAM
That five minute lightning talk changed my entire year and personal life too since then. So this was at RailsConf last year, and I'm sitting there watching this talk, and I realized how deeply I identified with it and how much it spoke to me. And he talked about living in fear, and I just identified with that so much, just partially with the mental health side, especially with dealing with anxiety. And I just remember one of the quotes that he said from, I forget who it was attributed to, but it was something like, Everything you've ever wanted lives on the other side of fear. I started getting teary -eyed just in that moment. It really spoke to me. And, you know, Alan continued on that trust is the vaccine to fear. And trusting in yourself, trusting in your community. It had such an impact on me in the moment, emotionally. I remember going up to him, like, yeah, great talk. And I didn't see him after that. And I messaged him again on LinkedIn afterwards, just to like, listen, that talk was amazing. And it's something that I just kept thinking about. And I started doing things that I was scared to do.
NEHA ABRAHAM
doing things that I was scared to do. And when it came time around the end of last year, I was starting to think about my goals for the next year. New Year's resolution, that kind of stuff. And I remembered his talk and I said, I'm going to trust in myself and do the scary things and we'll see what happens. And as a result of those five minutes,
DAVID HILL
a result of
NEHA ABRAHAM
those five minutes, I have been promoted. I've been a speaker at conferences. I'm at this podcast. I ran a 5K. I am more experimental with some of my recipes. I have more leadership at work. I've been just taking on more and being successful. And I saw that he was going to be a speaker at this RubyConf.
NEHA ABRAHAM
saw that he was going to be a speaker at this RubyConf. I saw him at the speaker dinner. And I was like, I have to let him know how much he's impacted my life. And I actually saw him earlier in the day at Soundcheck. And I was like, hey, this is my shot. I'm going to tell him. And then I totally panicked and ran away.
DAVID HILL
like no I can't I'm too scared ironically and then I spent like the next couple hours in between that and the speaker dinner just psyching myself up and like rehearsing what I was going to say to him and then right before I leave the speaker dinner I go up to Alan and he was in the middle of a conversation with his group and I'm like I'm just gonna do it and you know I tapped him on the shoulder and he's like oh hello and I was like hi
NEHA ABRAHAM
hours in between that and the speaker dinner just psyching myself up and like rehearsing what I was going to say to him and then right
DAVID HILL
before I leave the speaker
NEHA ABRAHAM
dinner I go up to Alan and he was in the middle of a conversation with his group and I'm like I'm just gonna do it and you know I tapped him on the shoulder and he's like oh hello and I was like hi I just started word vomiting everything. I forgot everything I rehearsed to myself. And I started getting emotional and teary. And then I saw he was getting emotional and teary.
DAVID HILL
emotional and teary. And then I just told him how much that talk meant to me, how much it changed my life, and how much of an impact it's had on me without knowing it.
NEHA ABRAHAM
life, and how much of an impact it's had on me without knowing it. And he's getting teary. I was like, can I give you a hug? I was like, yes, of course. God, it meant so much to me to just be able to share with him how much he's helped me. And I'm just so excited for his future talks.
NEHA ABRAHAM
just so excited for his future talks. He gave a talk this time about being happier and about being seen and seeing others and community. And I love his talks,
DAVID HILL
his talks, whether they're like full -fledged.
NEHA ABRAHAM
session or a lightning talk he is an excellent speaker and he's very vulnerable with what he goes through and that has big impact and it did on me and it really changed the last year for me it would have been a much different trajectory I think not in a negative way I think I was comfortable where I was and that's fine but
DAVID HILL
through and that
NEHA ABRAHAM
big impact and it did on me and it really changed the last year for me it
DAVID HILL
would have been a
NEHA ABRAHAM
much different trajectory I think not in a negative way I think I was comfortable where I was and that's fine but
NEHA ABRAHAM
I've challenged myself a lot this last year, and it's a lot in part to just hearing Alan's voice in my head saying trust is the vaccine to fear and just remembering what he said and just really intentionally trying to do the things that scare me.
DAVID HILL
I love that. So one of your New Year's resolutions was to speak at conferences? Yes. And I believe I heard you say that you had spoken at a conference earlier in the year.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
DAVID HILL
But really, Tom was kind of a stretch goal for you.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Tom was kind of a stretch goal for you. Originally, my goal was just to apply to some conferences. But then I saw the few conferences that I did want to apply to. The CFP closed like January 7th.
DAVID HILL
Okay, I'll try it and actually speak at one.
NEHA ABRAHAM
And then I was accepted to Blue Ridge Ruby and Blastoff Rails in Albuquerque.
DAVID HILL
in Albuquerque.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Albuquerque. I couldn't make it to Blue Ridge because childcare ended up falling through,
DAVID HILL
Blue Ridge because
NEHA ABRAHAM
childcare ended up falling through, but I did go to Blastoff and I went with a few coworkers and I had such a great time. I really loved the small conference vibes because you could really build on relationships. I think there were maybe 40 people there, but we saw the same people throughout the day and into the evening for two days.
DAVID HILL
days. So you got to build on that introduction. Whereas a really big conference,
NEHA ABRAHAM
a really big conference, you might see someone, have some small chat for like 10 minutes, and then you might not see them the rest of the week. But a small conference like that, you can really build on that relationship over the course of a day or two. So I really enjoyed that. And there were some great talks there. And Travis Doctor, he took on so much and did a great job. He killed it. I'm very excited for next year to see if I can go again. He did a great job. So just props to... Travis, but that was my first conference that I spoke at. And I'm so glad there was a podium because I was holding onto it to keep me upright. I was shaking. I was so nervous, but it went really well. I got some good feedback. And then I had also applied to RubyConf and I was waitlisted. And even that I was over the moon with just being waitlisted because just these are my idols and heroes that.
DAVID HILL
the moon with just being
NEHA ABRAHAM
just being waitlisted because just these are my idols and
DAVID HILL
idols and heroes that.
NEHA ABRAHAM
speak at RubyConf. And now to be potentially at that same plane of them, it was crazy. And then a month before RubyConf, I got the email saying like, hey, you want to speak? And I was like, yes. Oh my God.
DAVID HILL
Did you give the same talk at Blastoff as at RubyConf or was it a different talk? You did,
NEHA ABRAHAM
You did, yes. It was that same talk that I had submitted for both. And so I think that was great for me because I had done it once before Recomp. I think if it was my first time ever doing that talk, I would have maybe passed out on stage. It ended up going really well.
DAVID HILL
What was the topic for your talk? What was that about?
NEHA ABRAHAM
So it was all about data aggregation in Rails applications in order to speed up really data heavy pages. Because that's what I do. That is my job at work is build really... performant pages that rely on a lot of data and calculations and queries and just make it fast, make it usable. Yeah, I build dashboards all day. And we've learned a lot in the last three, four years that we've been implementing these patterns. And I thought it would be fun to share. And the first time I did this talk was a much more streamlined version internally. We do monthly tech talks like Lunch and Learns at Power. And so I did a short version there and then I expanded upon it for Blastoff and RubyConf. And then I did it again on Tuesday this week for the Philly Ruby meetup.
DAVID HILL
So how do you think it went?
NEHA ABRAHAM
I think it went great. I was really nervous, of course. I'm just always anxious. It's the truth I've accepted. But it means that in actual crisis modes that I'm just normal, which is great. I can think clearly because I'm always panic. It's like, you know, the Hulk. He's like, what's my secret? I'm always angry. I'm always panicked.
DAVID HILL
always angry. I'm always panicked. From the outside looking in, at no point did I look at you and think, wow, she's really panicked. You seemed fine.
NEHA ABRAHAM
I mask really well. But yeah, it went great. There was a slight pickup before where they didn't have my fonts, but the production team was excellent. They like switched it out real quick. And then my slides look normal again. And yeah, they were great. It was my first time being wired up for a mic.
DAVID HILL
It was
NEHA ABRAHAM
And that was very exciting. But also I was so embarrassed because like I was wearing a jumpsuit and I was so sweaty from being anxious. And this poor guy is like trying to wire the microphone. I'm so sorry. I'm really sweaty right now. But it was fine.
DAVID HILL
I can only imagine the things that like the tech guys at these types of events have had to, I imagine they've had to deal with so much more and worse. Yeah, they were great.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah, they were great. They were incredibly professional. They were really encouraging me and cheering me on beforehand and afterwards. They were great.
DAVID HILL
So one of the activities at RubyConf was a game night. And anyone who knows me knows I'm a big board game nerd. see the video feed. I like my board games. And so I brought a couple of games with me to RubyConf and Naya shows up to game night to play. It's a five round game that we were playing. I feel like we got to like round three and you were still kind of struggling to really grok the game and how it works. And then all of a sudden it clicked and you, you were maniacal.
NEHA ABRAHAM
It's amazing. So the game was Rebel Princesses. So much fun.
DAVID HILL
much fun. Go buy it. It's awesome.
NEHA ABRAHAM
I really, like the first three minutes, I had no idea what was going on. I was trying to figure out like my strategy and it was just not working for me. And then I realized there is no strategy because the rules change every single round. So it's a lot of improvisation. And I was like, okay, I can do that. And then I became very strategic in my decisions. And there was one point where David was about to win because he had the fewest points. And then within the next two rounds, he had all of the points because I strategically sacrificed some points for myself so that I would gain a few points and then he would gain like 20.
NEHA ABRAHAM
So, oh my God, I really flipped the table. It was so satisfying.
NEHA ABRAHAM
David learned how evil I could be that day. It was great.
DAVID HILL
I wasn't. gonna phrase it like that i'll phrase it like that it was very evil the thing that i learned was that i brought the right game to that game night 100 it was fantastic everyone at the table once they all kind of we played a round or two of it everyone started to kind of get it and get into it
NEHA ABRAHAM
phrase it like that it was very evil the
DAVID HILL
thing that i learned was that i brought the right game to that game night 100
NEHA ABRAHAM
100 it was fantastic everyone
DAVID HILL
was fantastic everyone at the table once they all kind of we played a round or two of it everyone started to kind of get it and get into it For you in particular, when I saw the light go on, I could practically see the fire in your eyes. I was vibrating with excitement.
NEHA ABRAHAM
was vibrating with excitement.
DAVID HILL
You were going to go for it. The tremendous loss, swinging from first place to last place within the last round and a half. It felt horrible as a player, but as the person who brought the game to introduce to a whole bunch of people who had never played it before, it was like, oh, this is exactly the experience I want. Yes. You taught me well.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yes. You taught me well. It was very much a Darth Vader moment in a way. The Sith, you know, there can only be two, but there can only be one.
DAVID HILL
So now we're just going from Star Wars to Highlander. But yeah, that was... Such a fun experience. It was very fun.
NEHA ABRAHAM
very fun.
DAVID HILL
You made my night. Everybody else at the table was great and participating and were having fun. But that experience was the part that jumps out in my memory when I think about it. Being completely taken down by a newcomer?
NEHA ABRAHAM
completely taken down by a newcomer? Yeah.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah. This game, I swear, it's rival princesses. Seriously, go get it. It's great. Once you understand the gist of how to play, it's so fun. You have to be really like... devious in a way. It's just mischief in a game and chaos, but controlled. It's wonderful. I loved it.
DAVID HILL
Mischief and chaos is a great way to put it. Yeah. It's essentially a themed version of hearts with some extra wrinkles thrown on top to make it chaos.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yeah, it was great. I very much enjoyed it.
DAVID HILL
Is there anything else you'd like to talk about related to Ruby or Rails or anything like that before we bring it to a close?
NEHA ABRAHAM
that before we bring it to a close? Yeah, I'm working on a V2 of my talk about data aggregation. So V1, the one that I've presented was more about this is what aggregation is and this is why you should do it. Now I'm working on a V2 where this is how you can do it. And I'm going to have a companion sample application all about dinosaurs. And it's all going to be dinosaur data inspired by my son who is obsessed with dinosaurs.
DAVID HILL
Three -year -old czar.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yes, absolutely. He recently, for the last about a year, it's been lava T -Rexes specifically. Again, I don't know where he got that, but props for the creativity. Now it's ice dinos that can blow ice at you, and then you have to freeze.
DAVID HILL
And then when they're looking away,
NEHA ABRAHAM
then when they're looking away, you have to wiggle out and escape. I feel like in a few years,
DAVID HILL
feel like in a few years, he's going to discover Dungeons and Dragons and then dragons. He'll migrate into that.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Maybe. Yeah. Oh my God. I can't wait. It can be so fun. I love watching him, his interests and his personality really come through and see who he's going to be as a person. It's so fun.
DAVID HILL
Yep. So, sorry, I derailed you. So version two of your talk.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Yes, it will be a how -to guide of setting up analytics in Rails applications with no third -party vendor. Just how we've been doing it, but also how you can do it if you don't have our exact setup at Power. And I'm going to try and maybe do like a skills file that you can give your agents to implement some of the patterns. So keep an eye out for future talk.
DAVID HILL
That sounds really fascinating. I will definitely be keeping my eyes open for that.
NEHA ABRAHAM
I'll share it whenever it comes out.
DAVID HILL
Awesome. Well, thank you for coming on the show with me today, Nea.
NEHA ABRAHAM
Thank you for having me. It's been very fun. I'm like shaking still, but in a fun way. Like the anxiety is there, but it was fun. I had a good time.
DAVID HILL
I'm glad. This has been the Ruby on Rails podcast. It was a pleasure talking with Neha today. Thank you for listening.
