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Welcome to the One Oahu podcast.
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I'm your host, Brandi Higa,
and today is Thursday, April 24th, 2025.
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And we're joined this week
by Christopher Thomas and Connie Mitchell.
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Thank you both for being here.
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Thanks for the invite. Thanks again.
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So, Chris, can we start with you?
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Do you mind telling us your title,
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what you do,
and just a little bit about yourself?
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All right.
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So, my name is Christopher Thomas.
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I have a law office downtown Honolulu.
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I've been there for about 12 years,
and in that process,
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I got to meet Connie and her folks
at the Institute for Human Services.
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And so what I do
is I provide legal services
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to their institute,
mainly for, help with mental health law.
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Petitioning
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for assisted community treatment
orders, guardianship orders and the like.
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So that's my story.
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I got three kids. One's in college.
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Two are still, high school and grade
school, and my wife works downtown also.
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So that's my group.
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So you set up, about a decade.
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What were you doing before that?
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I was a military attorney with the Air
Force, in their JAG department.
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So that's kind of how I cut my teeth
as an attorney.
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Was, through my first job
as a JAG attorney.
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And kind of,
you know, introducing yourself.
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Okay.
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I'm Connie Mitchell, I'm
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the executive director
at IHS Institute for Human Services.
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Been there for almost 19 years.
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And before that, I was the director
of nursing at the Hawaii State Hospital.
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So that's how I came to know a lot of,
some of the people that I work with now,
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even because there were patients
there at the state hospital way back then.
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So, I've, I'm
a lifelong resident of Hawaii and,
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you know, have lived
and worked down in this area and downtown
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for a long time now.
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But I'm now a resident of Kaneohe.
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At last week's press conference,
Mayor Blangiardi issued
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kind of an urgent call to action, for
folks to ask community members to serve
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as advocates for homeless individuals
in forms of guardians ad litem.
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So first off,
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when people hear that not everyone knows
exactly what a guardian ad litem is.
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Chris, why don't you start about what
what what is a guardian at large?
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Yeah, it's sometimes hard to define.
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So there's there's a real delineation
between an attorney, in fact,
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and a guardian
ad litem in the court system.
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And attorney, in fact, is really someone
who is supposed to look out
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only for a person's best legal interest.
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A guardian ad litem, in my opinion,
is a more holistic role, which,
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entails looking out for
the person's legal interests
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medical
best interest, social best interests.
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Taking into account their family.
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And so a Guardian line
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was really supposed to be a caretaker
for someone going through a legal process,
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but it's not actually representing their,
specific legal need.
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That's not their role.
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So a guardian that outlines in our system,
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they're basically trying to take
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as much information as possible
and trying to figure out, hey,
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given all these parameters, what's going
to be best for this person moving forward?
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I think, dad.
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Yeah, I think, and, Chris,
maybe you can help me with this because,
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guardian and litem
also exists there in family court.
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A lot of the time.
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And, they represent, youth
also under age, youth.
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And so in most cases they're pretty much,
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representing
the best interests of the person.
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As you know, Chris was talking about,
you know, versus if the person just tells
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his attorney and the attorney is for them,
and you got to do this for me,
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then they have to basically do their best
to just carry out what they want, right?
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Yeah.
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I mean,
I mean, there's a duty of an attorney to,
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take instruction from
and do only what the client says.
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The issue with
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guardians ad litem
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or even attorneys, in fact, is that
if someone does not have the capacity
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to make those decisions like a child
or someone suffering from mental illness,
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they could be giving
their attorney instruction
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that is actually contrary
to what's best for them.
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Not only legally, but practically.
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And so
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that's where I, I believe the guardian ad
litem has a very unique role in that.
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They they are trained
and specifically are supposed
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to work with folks who can't really make
good decisions for themselves.
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A term that was also thrown around
last week in the press conferences, ect.
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What exactly does AC do?
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What's the functionality there?
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I'll give you my opinion
and kind of a nod to the okay, so assisted
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committed treatment in my opinion
is a under utilized law in Hawaii.
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That's chapter
334 of our mental health statute. And
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and what it basically entails is a law
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that's designed
to avoid the cycle of folks
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who need mental health treatment
going into a facility, involuntarily
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having to be admitted,
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perhaps being treated
for a very short period of time
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and then being released again
to the community or to the streets
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where they then repeat
this cycle of incompetence,
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perhaps violence,
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danger to themselves or others, and
they get it back to the hospital again.
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Assisted community treatment is designed
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to allow treatment
of these individuals who,
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don't necessarily
have to be confined into a hospital.
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They can treat them wherever they are.
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And in this case, all the folks
that we treat are on the streets.
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So, the benefits of assisted treatment,
in my opinion,
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are that you can treat folks anywhere,
including the streets or in their homes.
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And, it allows them to continue
to receive continuous care
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that they otherwise would avoid
if they keep cycling through a hospital
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or they get lost in the shuffle.
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So, the goal of assisted community
treatment, in my opinion, is, medication
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to get medication on board to help
treat mental illness and substance abuse.
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And the law allows our court
to make orders that someone be,
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basically given their
medication, whether they,
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you know, technically
are admitted to a hospital or not.
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Yeah. Anything to that.
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I think it's also to avoid them
being jailed, quite frankly,
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you know, because so many of the people
that don't know what they're doing,
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their behaviors in the community often,
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garner the attention of police
and then they're arrested.
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So the whole idea is to divert them from,
you know, the criminal justice system,
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if, in fact, what they're doing
is a result of their mental illness
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and it isn't necessarily a threat
to other people in a serious way,
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but that they themselves are just choosing
wrongly, you know, for
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themselves is not the best interests,
you know,
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for them
to be behaving the way that they are.
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So court
order, treatment in the community,
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in the least restrictive environment.
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So how many guardians ad litem do we
currently have working cases here on all.
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We've only come across two so far,
I think.
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And so,
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that's why the mayor was so concerned,
you know, because we said, well,
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we can't really do this on a larger scale
unless there's more people
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that are willing to serve
in that capacity.
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So, therefore,
that's what we tried to do last week.
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The type of individuals
that you both described.
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I mean, we all see them out there.
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But how many could benefit from
ECT here on Oahu?
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I ask Connie that all the time.
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And, you know, it's
not a hard and fast number.
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As you know, the
the government performs a point
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in time count every year, every year
or every other year.
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Well, it's we've been doing it every year,
but we skipped this past year
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because we didn't have to do it.
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So it's required every two years.
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And so we're probably moving forward.
Do it every two. Yeah.
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So that kind of sets the number of folks
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who are living unsheltered on Oahu
and on the other island.
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And then from that we try to break down
how many folks are suffering
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from serious mental illness.
And that's always a moving target.
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And then I always ask Connie, like,
how many people if we treated
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and we're able to get orders
to treat our sister, give me a treatment.
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What would we need to do to change
kind of the environment,
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or get the ball moving in the right
direction or gain momentum?
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And, we don't necessarily know the answer
that I can only answer that we need more,
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and always more and probably
will always answer that we need more.
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So we're trying to treat as many folks
as we can
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to kind of turn the tide of homelessness
and serious mental illness.
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But we're talking about hundreds
of people, you know, really, I think, on
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any given day,
if we were to do a count, you know,
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you only see the people
maybe on the street,
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but there are many more people
that are hidden, sometimes are in more,
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rural areas,
not in the city areas, you know, so
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I'd say, you know,
at least several hundred people, probably.
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But we only can we only have capacity
to deal with those people
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right now
that are most in front of our eyes.
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Right.
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You know,
but I think if we could help more people,
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we just have,
you know, just a more civil community,
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you know, where people are not, you know,
just really behaving in ways that,
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are a little bit intimidating sometimes
for the folks in Aurora out there.
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So since the press conference last week,
what's been the response
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that each of you have been getting? Chris,
we can start with you.
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Yeah, I actually got emails
that evening from attorneys
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that I know who reached out and said,
hey, how do I get involved?
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So I was excited right off the bat
because it seemed like it got some
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resonance right off the bat.
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I don't know the numbers
that have now reached out to the judiciary
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because I don't have access to
that information, but I do know that right
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away, some folks that I know were like,
hey, I'd like to get involved.
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I can't believe I didn't know about this.
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And hey,
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now that I know that there's something
I can do to help, I'd really like to help.
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So that was a good sign on my end. Yeah.
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Yeah, well, I'm not in the legal area
to folks.
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Reach out for more information. Or just
what is this or how.
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Yeah,
I think I think people are wanting to,
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expand on, you know, what was shared
at the press conference last week.
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So I think there is going to be,
you know, more coverage about,
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you know, act
and the need for Friday night lambs.
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Also by the general media.
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So I'm excited about that.
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But guardians, a lot of it, it feels like
almost like passion project work.
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I know that there's
some compensation, but,
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call me what we can start with you
on this one.
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Why why is this work important? What?
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What makes it worth it?
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Is is it worth it?
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I mean, there's only two right now.
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Yeah.
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I think, actually, Chris is is probably
a better person to speak on this
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because he is an attorney
and we're talking to attorneys, right.
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But, you know, from my perspective,
the whole process,
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you know, of Act is one that is so needed.
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You know, people are, quick to complain
about what they see on the street.
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But then, you know,
when we are talking about solutions
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and this is a real solution,
we need people to step up.
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But Chris.
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Yeah, I mean, I could get on my soapbox
and tell you what
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I think about that question, but my what
I always tell folks is this is,
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you know, when I drive from my house,
Kailua, over the Pali to my downtown
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comfortable office,
I drive by 100 people every day.
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And when I see those folks, it
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it really it really gets to me.
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And that's one of the reasons
I got involved in the first place.
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And as I'm doing that,
I'm thinking to myself, okay,
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how difficult is it for someone who has,
you know, the wherewithal
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as an attorney to get involved
and help out and a guardian ad litem,
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is a perfect role
for someone who knows there's a problem.
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And we all know there's problem
that can do something about it
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in even a small way,
by taking a case or two,
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and would have a real difference
not only in the life of that individual,
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but in the lives of the folks
that frequent downtown or wherever,
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you know, is affected by homelessness
and serious mental illness.
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So for me, it's like one of those
no brainers that an attorney
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can really very easily
without a lot of training or extra
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effort, jump into,
and then the work itself is rewarded.
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I, like you said, you know, it may not be,
you know, the money that
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an attorney would otherwise.
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You know, see from their normal clientele.
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00:11:26,018 --> 00:11:28,270
But this is something
that's serving their community also.
232
00:11:28,270 --> 00:11:31,273
And from a holistic standpoint,
I think that's really appealing.
233
00:11:31,565 --> 00:11:34,151
So it's one of those things
that any attorney could do.
234
00:11:34,151 --> 00:11:38,322
So when the question is, you know,
how many guardians I let him do we need?
235
00:11:38,322 --> 00:11:40,116
My answer is always more.
236
00:11:40,116 --> 00:11:41,826
And who can get involved in my answer?
237
00:11:41,826 --> 00:11:45,413
Is anybody anybody that has a,
you know, attorneys license
238
00:11:45,413 --> 00:11:48,416
the judiciary will vet you
and approve you,
239
00:11:48,791 --> 00:11:51,001
I know from experience
that there's a lot of different places
240
00:11:51,001 --> 00:11:54,004
that attorneys can devote their time
and their volunteer hours.
241
00:11:54,213 --> 00:11:57,216
So there's all sorts
of great organizations in the state where
242
00:11:57,675 --> 00:12:00,761
even for no money, for no charge pro
bono work,
243
00:12:00,761 --> 00:12:03,889
you can spend hours and hours and hours
serving your community.
244
00:12:03,889 --> 00:12:06,142
I get it.
So there's other places that people go to.
245
00:12:06,142 --> 00:12:08,728
But for the
the problem that's right in front of us.
246
00:12:08,728 --> 00:12:12,982
Homelessness and serious mental illness
in Waikiki and downtown in Chinatown.
247
00:12:13,691 --> 00:12:16,485
I mean, you can
you can see a tangible result.
248
00:12:16,485 --> 00:12:19,447
You know, when I volunteer
my pro-bono hours, other organizations,
249
00:12:19,655 --> 00:12:22,992
I may meet somebody and help them out,
but I don't see them through to the end,
250
00:12:23,451 --> 00:12:27,163
and I don't necessarily get the impression
that I'm making, you know, this huge
251
00:12:27,163 --> 00:12:28,748
watershed difference in their life,
252
00:12:28,748 --> 00:12:31,876
you know, and I'm helping them out
as, a pro bono client with a Guardian
253
00:12:31,876 --> 00:12:36,005
ad litem serving an individual for an Act
petition.
254
00:12:36,005 --> 00:12:38,549
You're really, in my opinion,
changing that person's life.
255
00:12:38,549 --> 00:12:43,012
So, from that perspective,
I think it's very rewarding.
256
00:12:43,012 --> 00:12:46,640
It's kind of a, a
no brainer for an attorney to get involved
257
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,350
if they're really concerned
about the community.
258
00:12:48,350 --> 00:12:51,270
See where it took you to to know that,
that you do get to see it to the end.
259
00:12:51,270 --> 00:12:51,395
Right?
260
00:12:51,395 --> 00:12:52,688
Like you
said, there's so many different places
261
00:12:52,688 --> 00:12:55,691
you could devote your time, your energy,
and even your volunteer hours.
262
00:12:56,066 --> 00:13:00,070
So what got you into this field,
this kind of work in the first place?
263
00:13:00,070 --> 00:13:03,032
I guess the the way people ask
that is what what is your why?
264
00:13:03,032 --> 00:13:03,491
Why did you.
265
00:13:03,491 --> 00:13:07,119
Even think it was just that just, everyday
walking the streets?
266
00:13:07,119 --> 00:13:09,413
Gail going to get lunch
and being like, why?
267
00:13:09,413 --> 00:13:12,500
Why is
why is Honolulu moving in this direction
268
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,295
that could otherwise
be avoided with some good laws? Act,
269
00:13:17,421 --> 00:13:17,797
some good
270
00:13:17,797 --> 00:13:20,925
legal work and the judiciary
and the government gave.
271
00:13:20,925 --> 00:13:23,928
Well, why can't we do something about it?
272
00:13:24,053 --> 00:13:26,472
I don't specifically remember
how we got hooked up
273
00:13:26,472 --> 00:13:29,558
to start act work, but I do know that
it was kind of like that.
274
00:13:29,558 --> 00:13:31,852
Hey, I saw a problem.
I wanted to get involved.
275
00:13:31,852 --> 00:13:34,396
I think you reached out to me.
Or vice versa.
276
00:13:34,396 --> 00:13:38,150
We had some early success on a case
that kind of otherwise
277
00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:39,401
was kind of hopeless,
278
00:13:39,401 --> 00:13:42,071
and we were like, hey, this could work,
and let's see how far we could take it.
279
00:13:42,071 --> 00:13:44,073
So, that was kind of my.
280
00:13:44,073 --> 00:13:47,326
I think our first case actually
was somebody from Kailua.
281
00:13:47,535 --> 00:13:48,452
All right. Yeah.
282
00:13:48,452 --> 00:13:53,040
And I think, for Chris,
he's had the opportunity to see the before
283
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,501
and after all the way, which, you know, is
284
00:13:55,501 --> 00:13:57,962
I think is really encouraging
when you can see it.
285
00:13:57,962 --> 00:14:01,841
And I think for me, particularly
because I've seen people who are,
286
00:14:02,091 --> 00:14:04,426
who have been my patients
at the state hospital
287
00:14:04,426 --> 00:14:07,346
and then out on the street,
and then when we can treat them again
288
00:14:07,346 --> 00:14:11,267
and see what medication and treatment
can do and housing,
289
00:14:11,267 --> 00:14:14,270
you know, really getting them back
into housing can do for somebody.
290
00:14:14,395 --> 00:14:16,689
You know, I that's what keeps me going,
you know,
291
00:14:16,689 --> 00:14:19,692
is that I really feel like
we can make a difference here.
292
00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:21,777
But before I just before state hospital.
293
00:14:21,777 --> 00:14:24,363
Connie, why did you get into this work?
Same question I ask her.
294
00:14:24,363 --> 00:14:25,072
Why did you.
295
00:14:25,072 --> 00:14:25,948
What is your. Why?
296
00:14:25,948 --> 00:14:30,119
Well, I'm a psychiatric clinical nurse
specialist, you know, and I went into,
297
00:14:30,369 --> 00:14:33,706
nursing, first of all, general nursing
because of my dad.
298
00:14:33,706 --> 00:14:37,960
You know, I watched him, you know, suffer,
a long time with a medical condition.
299
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,004
But then, you know, I saw,
300
00:14:41,046 --> 00:14:42,214
I had the experience of
301
00:14:42,214 --> 00:14:46,010
having a couple of people that I knew
closely actually commit suicide.
302
00:14:46,010 --> 00:14:49,555
And that's when I decided
I would go into, psychiatric nursing.
303
00:14:49,847 --> 00:14:54,643
So I think for me, you know, sometimes,
looking back, it's those pain points
304
00:14:54,643 --> 00:14:59,481
in my life that have really, and passion
me to say this doesn't have to happen.
305
00:14:59,523 --> 00:15:00,649
You know, let's make a different,
306
00:15:00,649 --> 00:15:04,111
you know, way for some people and prevent
some of these things, you know.
307
00:15:04,778 --> 00:15:05,195
Yeah.
308
00:15:05,195 --> 00:15:07,156
There's no question
that this is a very tough work.
309
00:15:07,156 --> 00:15:08,616
But, Connie, for you,
310
00:15:08,616 --> 00:15:12,536
you know, like you just said, you've been
through a lot on the hard days.
311
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:14,788
What do you do to make them better?
312
00:15:14,788 --> 00:15:16,540
Are you a glass of wine kind of gal?
313
00:15:16,540 --> 00:15:17,666
Are you a go for a ride?
314
00:15:17,666 --> 00:15:19,877
What do you do to get back to the center?
315
00:15:21,128 --> 00:15:24,340
I think just, you know, going home
and just being able to unwind.
316
00:15:24,340 --> 00:15:25,507
I'm really fortunate.
317
00:15:25,507 --> 00:15:28,177
My husband is in psych,
in mental health as well.
318
00:15:28,177 --> 00:15:31,889
And so he really understands
and so I like to think that, you know,
319
00:15:32,097 --> 00:15:36,268
being able to talk about stuff
and have somebody really understand
320
00:15:36,268 --> 00:15:41,315
what it means, you know, to be a part of,
helping to heal somebody else.
321
00:15:41,607 --> 00:15:42,608
You know, the hard days.
322
00:15:42,608 --> 00:15:44,026
I know there's going to be another day,
323
00:15:44,026 --> 00:15:47,404
and I'm going to fight for that
next day where we can do something good.
324
00:15:47,780 --> 00:15:51,158
Because I remember in the earlier days
when we were just feeling like,
325
00:15:51,450 --> 00:15:54,787
wow, why is it so hard, you know, to
get one of these cases through the courts?
326
00:15:54,787 --> 00:15:55,663
You know,
327
00:15:55,663 --> 00:15:59,708
but slowly but surely, you know,
we get knocked down, but we get up again
328
00:15:59,708 --> 00:16:00,668
and we decide, okay,
329
00:16:00,668 --> 00:16:03,671
we're going to do a little bit different
next time and see what we can do.
330
00:16:03,796 --> 00:16:08,133
So just the, ability
to see people reunited with family,
331
00:16:08,467 --> 00:16:11,679
see people
being able to enjoy their life again,
332
00:16:11,679 --> 00:16:15,099
you know, having the capability to even,
you know, know that,
333
00:16:15,474 --> 00:16:17,559
hey, they can be happy about something,
you know,
334
00:16:17,559 --> 00:16:21,105
and really look forward to something
that really, you know, keeps me going.
335
00:16:21,355 --> 00:16:22,272
Yeah. Chris, what about you?
336
00:16:23,607 --> 00:16:24,233
Oh, yeah.
337
00:16:24,233 --> 00:16:26,777
So I like I said, I have three boys and,
338
00:16:26,777 --> 00:16:29,780
chasing them around
and trying to keep from drowning and,
339
00:16:30,406 --> 00:16:33,742
you know, that's kind of where
I burn my energy chasing them around.
340
00:16:33,742 --> 00:16:36,036
So, yeah, they're a good time.
341
00:16:36,036 --> 00:16:39,039
You kind of mentioned,
you know, reuniting people with family.
342
00:16:39,081 --> 00:16:40,165
There are those good stories.
343
00:16:40,165 --> 00:16:43,752
So on the tough days, Connie,
is there a story that you fall back on
344
00:16:43,752 --> 00:16:46,797
that you kind of remember that that helps
when times do get a little tougher?
345
00:16:47,881 --> 00:16:51,260
I think there was one, you know, patient
that I had in the hospital before.
346
00:16:51,260 --> 00:16:55,848
And then I saw again on the street
and it was just, so sad for me,
347
00:16:55,848 --> 00:16:59,393
you know, to see how far,
how far that person had fallen
348
00:16:59,768 --> 00:17:02,271
and being able
to do the act on that person
349
00:17:02,271 --> 00:17:05,607
and seeing that person back
in, you know, housing
350
00:17:05,941 --> 00:17:10,320
and being able to enjoy life again,
that really made a huge difference for me.
351
00:17:10,738 --> 00:17:12,489
But there are so many cases, Brendan.
352
00:17:12,489 --> 00:17:13,532
You know, it's not just one.
353
00:17:13,532 --> 00:17:17,244
And so I just really keep telling myself,
naw, you know, like we keep doing this
354
00:17:17,244 --> 00:17:20,330
because there's so many other people and,
you know, it's not just that one person
355
00:17:20,664 --> 00:17:25,002
because they have family too, you know,
and when you help that person,
356
00:17:25,335 --> 00:17:28,756
suddenly there are other people
that are affected by that too,
357
00:17:28,756 --> 00:17:30,549
by that recovery and that healing.
358
00:17:30,549 --> 00:17:32,217
And so I, you know, tend to think
359
00:17:32,217 --> 00:17:35,679
about how we're all connected
and how when we're helping one person,
360
00:17:36,013 --> 00:17:39,099
there's so many other people
that end up getting touched by that, too.
361
00:17:39,516 --> 00:17:42,686
I know folks have asked you this before,
but what do you love most about your job?
362
00:17:45,022 --> 00:17:46,356
Actually, I love
363
00:17:46,356 --> 00:17:50,694
watching my staff just really serve people
the way that they do.
364
00:17:51,070 --> 00:17:56,408
They love on them really heavily, and
they just know how to connect with people.
365
00:17:56,784 --> 00:17:59,453
And, you know,
sometimes I feel like it's really
366
00:17:59,453 --> 00:18:02,498
the folks that we're serving
that teach me about stuff, too, because,
367
00:18:02,915 --> 00:18:06,877
you know, we all kind of wrestle
with our own stresses and, you know, like,
368
00:18:07,544 --> 00:18:10,506
maybe losing things, you know, and,
369
00:18:10,506 --> 00:18:12,633
feeling like we don't have enough.
370
00:18:12,633 --> 00:18:13,926
And I look at people,
371
00:18:13,926 --> 00:18:17,596
you know, who sometimes, you know,
are on the street and having experience.
372
00:18:17,888 --> 00:18:19,181
Houselessness.
373
00:18:19,181 --> 00:18:24,186
They have so little, but they still know
how to, you know, experience joy.
374
00:18:24,937 --> 00:18:27,356
You know, as long as we connect
and there are people
375
00:18:27,356 --> 00:18:28,982
that are connecting with them.
376
00:18:28,982 --> 00:18:32,653
And so, it's just, it's
just a real good place
377
00:18:32,653 --> 00:18:35,823
to be, you know, to know that you don't
have to have a lot of stuff sometimes.
378
00:18:35,823 --> 00:18:38,033
And, you know, you can learn from anybody.
379
00:18:39,284 --> 00:18:39,827
Chris, if
380
00:18:39,827 --> 00:18:42,830
your boys are sitting in here
and I ask them what you do, or they say.
381
00:18:42,871 --> 00:18:47,835
Oh, answer the phone and send email,
that's what.
382
00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:51,672
My youngest gets a drag in the office
all the time, and you make him do his
383
00:18:51,672 --> 00:18:54,133
homework, and he's like, all you do
is answer the phone and do email.
384
00:18:54,133 --> 00:18:55,884
But, you know,
I'm actually thinking about stuff.
385
00:18:55,884 --> 00:18:58,137
And so they kind of give me a hard time.
386
00:18:58,137 --> 00:19:02,141
But, yeah, I think they, I think
they kind of as they get older, they know,
387
00:19:03,392 --> 00:19:06,311
part of my role as an attorney
is to try to help out the community.
388
00:19:06,311 --> 00:19:09,565
And I think they appreciate that it
they won't tell me that, but they'll
389
00:19:10,065 --> 00:19:13,068
someday,
hopefully be more receptive to that.
390
00:19:13,193 --> 00:19:13,652
I'll tell you.
391
00:19:13,652 --> 00:19:16,446
I'll tell you one of my stories
that Connie was kind of alluding to is,
392
00:19:18,157 --> 00:19:19,658
when we first started,
393
00:19:19,658 --> 00:19:22,327
Connie said we got to serve the
the worst of the worst.
394
00:19:22,327 --> 00:19:22,995
Right?
395
00:19:22,995 --> 00:19:25,873
So, like, we're kind of triaging, like,
you know,
396
00:19:25,873 --> 00:19:28,959
how bad people were mentally,
our mental illness wise.
397
00:19:28,959 --> 00:19:30,544
And those are going to be our priorities.
398
00:19:30,544 --> 00:19:32,504
And I'm not saying this
because the person is a bad person.
399
00:19:32,504 --> 00:19:33,589
They were just behaving badly.
400
00:19:33,589 --> 00:19:38,385
But we targeted an individual who,
barely ever wore clothes.
401
00:19:38,385 --> 00:19:41,555
He would run in front of busses,
he would terrorize tourists,
402
00:19:42,055 --> 00:19:43,599
he would expose himself.
403
00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:44,391
The guardian, light him.
404
00:19:44,391 --> 00:19:48,020
In that case,
I think had to run from him at one point.
405
00:19:48,270 --> 00:19:50,856
And I'm not saying that to dissuade people
from being Guardians line,
406
00:19:50,856 --> 00:19:52,983
but he was just like, this guy's too scary
407
00:19:52,983 --> 00:19:54,484
to even get on the same side
of the street.
408
00:19:54,484 --> 00:19:58,614
And, and we went through the Act process
and it was a real slog
409
00:19:58,906 --> 00:20:00,282
because there's one of our first cases,
410
00:20:00,282 --> 00:20:03,285
and we were getting challenged
by all sorts of different entities.
411
00:20:03,285 --> 00:20:06,997
And, but then we finally got the order
and we're like, hey, we got an order. And,
412
00:20:08,707 --> 00:20:10,500
I think it was like a year later
we were doing,
413
00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:12,211
I call it walkabout, where I go out
414
00:20:12,211 --> 00:20:16,089
with the doctor and the outreach workers
and whoever wants to tag along,
415
00:20:16,089 --> 00:20:18,550
and we kind of go
check out how people are doing.
416
00:20:18,550 --> 00:20:21,553
Whatever. Yeah. And, one morning,
417
00:20:22,095 --> 00:20:24,181
I remember they were like,
hey, let's have a coffee.
418
00:20:24,181 --> 00:20:24,765
Let's sit down here.
419
00:20:24,765 --> 00:20:27,309
And I sat down and there was a guy
that was sitting next to me
420
00:20:27,309 --> 00:20:31,813
having coffee also, and he was a t shirt
and his hair was well cut.
421
00:20:32,022 --> 00:20:33,982
He had a backpack on,
422
00:20:33,982 --> 00:20:36,818
and I thought he was just another guy
having coffee, you know,
423
00:20:36,818 --> 00:20:40,572
and we were kind of sitting on fourth
Street Mall and our doctor said, do
424
00:20:40,572 --> 00:20:41,365
you know who that is?
425
00:20:42,866 --> 00:20:43,533
And I said, no.
426
00:20:43,533 --> 00:20:46,954
And it was, it was that individual
that we had got that order for.
427
00:20:46,954 --> 00:20:50,791
And he had recovered to a degree
that he wasn't, you know,
428
00:20:51,458 --> 00:20:54,127
he was not going to run for mayor or,
you know, be a world beater.
429
00:20:54,127 --> 00:20:56,505
But he was
he was not trying to harm anyone.
430
00:20:56,505 --> 00:20:57,714
He wasn't harm himself.
431
00:20:57,714 --> 00:21:00,217
And he had a haircut
and he was moving on with life.
432
00:21:00,217 --> 00:21:03,720
And that one to me was just like,
that's the reason that, you know,
433
00:21:04,263 --> 00:21:06,974
this work needs to be done.
434
00:21:06,974 --> 00:21:09,685
And so if someone knows a lawyer
or is a lawyer
435
00:21:09,685 --> 00:21:12,688
or wants to find out more,
what's your advice to them.
436
00:21:14,231 --> 00:21:15,607
For assisted community treatment?
437
00:21:15,607 --> 00:21:17,067
Yeah.
438
00:21:17,067 --> 00:21:18,568
As a guardian ad litem or an attorney.
439
00:21:18,568 --> 00:21:21,405
Or just want to know more,
or maybe you thinking about it,
440
00:21:21,405 --> 00:21:24,032
but you know,
they weren't really familiar with the.
441
00:21:25,242 --> 00:21:27,911
Yeah, I contacted judiciary contact
Connie, contacted myself.
442
00:21:27,911 --> 00:21:30,539
Contact the mayor's office.
443
00:21:30,539 --> 00:21:32,749
You know,
it is kind of an amorphous concept.
444
00:21:32,749 --> 00:21:34,918
You know, what is what is this? This?
You mean treatment, right?
445
00:21:34,918 --> 00:21:36,670
How does it work? How do I get involved?
446
00:21:36,670 --> 00:21:39,673
But in in reality, what it really is, is,
447
00:21:40,299 --> 00:21:44,886
you know, just the, the nuts and bolts
of gathering information
448
00:21:44,886 --> 00:21:48,223
and making good decisions and getting
people moved in the right direction.
449
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,643
And there's no we've learned
there's no right or wrong to
450
00:21:52,227 --> 00:21:55,147
how you do it
or how it gets done necessarily.
451
00:21:55,147 --> 00:21:56,481
As long as within the boundaries
of the law.
452
00:21:56,481 --> 00:21:59,484
But, you know, there's, there's,
453
00:21:59,735 --> 00:22:02,571
it's really you can do how, however
and whatever you want.
454
00:22:02,571 --> 00:22:04,281
I always tell folks
that want to get involved.
455
00:22:04,281 --> 00:22:05,866
It's kind of nice to
456
00:22:05,866 --> 00:22:09,578
get out of your office, you know,
walk the streets a little bit, meet people
457
00:22:09,911 --> 00:22:11,663
and get a bunch of information
and kind of,
458
00:22:11,663 --> 00:22:14,708
you know, see a little bit different
perspective on how legal work can,
459
00:22:14,916 --> 00:22:15,709
can help people out.
460
00:22:15,709 --> 00:22:16,126
And Randy,
461
00:22:16,126 --> 00:22:19,254
I think I, on the other hand, you know,
I feel like when I got into this
462
00:22:19,254 --> 00:22:20,630
kind of work went homelessness.
463
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:23,091
You know, I had left the hospital
and I thought, oh, okay.
464
00:22:23,091 --> 00:22:23,884
I didn't realize
465
00:22:23,884 --> 00:22:27,888
I was going to deal with so many mentally
ill people still, you know, but,
466
00:22:29,264 --> 00:22:32,392
I also didn't
realize I was going to be getting involved
467
00:22:32,392 --> 00:22:35,562
in the legal system as much, you know,
going to court and that sort of thing.
468
00:22:35,937 --> 00:22:39,024
And, that has been really interesting
for me because at one time,
469
00:22:39,024 --> 00:22:43,028
very early in life,
I thought I might go into, law myself.
470
00:22:43,028 --> 00:22:43,445
Right.
471
00:22:43,445 --> 00:22:43,779
But then.
472
00:22:43,779 --> 00:22:45,614
So I don't think I will do that.
473
00:22:45,614 --> 00:22:47,032
I'll go into nursing instead.
474
00:22:47,032 --> 00:22:51,370
But I think, you know,
just being able to see how, again,
475
00:22:51,370 --> 00:22:54,873
we're also connected, you know,
and how everybody has a different role.
476
00:22:55,123 --> 00:22:57,459
And in this particular, process.
477
00:22:57,459 --> 00:22:58,794
That is so true.
478
00:22:58,794 --> 00:23:00,629
You know, like Chris has his role.
479
00:23:00,629 --> 00:23:03,548
I have my role. You know,
our outreach workers have their role.
480
00:23:03,548 --> 00:23:07,511
And just really connecting with the person
and getting them to a place where,
481
00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:09,638
you know, they might even,
482
00:23:09,638 --> 00:23:13,266
you know, take medication
even before we get an act order.
483
00:23:13,475 --> 00:23:15,185
And I, I want to say that, too,
you know, it's not like
484
00:23:15,185 --> 00:23:18,313
we do this with every single person
that is mentally ill,
485
00:23:18,688 --> 00:23:20,732
but it's those people
that are just so entrenched
486
00:23:20,732 --> 00:23:22,025
and they're headed down this path
487
00:23:22,025 --> 00:23:25,445
where there's something bad going
to happen to them or to somebody else.
488
00:23:25,821 --> 00:23:28,031
But, you know,
there are so many other people
489
00:23:28,031 --> 00:23:29,032
that in the course
490
00:23:29,032 --> 00:23:32,077
of trying to get them treatment
and thinking we needed to do act,
491
00:23:33,203 --> 00:23:33,787
they took their
492
00:23:33,787 --> 00:23:37,874
medication and we would see these,
you know, real amazing recoveries.
493
00:23:37,874 --> 00:23:40,419
And then we thought, oh,
I guess we don't have to do the act here.
494
00:23:40,419 --> 00:23:42,379
We don't have to be in such a hurry
to do it.
495
00:23:42,379 --> 00:23:43,755
Let's see what where this goes.
496
00:23:43,755 --> 00:23:46,508
And then sometimes getting the act
is about helping
497
00:23:46,508 --> 00:23:49,803
that person stay on their medication,
because maybe they feel like,
498
00:23:50,011 --> 00:23:51,972
oh, I'm so good,
I don't really need to take medication.
499
00:23:51,972 --> 00:23:55,684
And many people who are mentally ill do
decide to stop taking their medication.
500
00:23:56,059 --> 00:23:58,895
But I think what we're trying to do
is help people to have
501
00:23:58,895 --> 00:24:02,649
that kind of stability
that allows them to just keep going
502
00:24:02,649 --> 00:24:05,861
and keep getting better and recovering
and being able to be,
503
00:24:06,945 --> 00:24:09,239
the beneficiary of the rehabilitation
504
00:24:09,239 --> 00:24:12,409
and reconnecting
with their life and their loved ones.
505
00:24:13,869 --> 00:24:14,536
Well, thank you both.
506
00:24:14,536 --> 00:24:16,663
Is there anything that we missed?
507
00:24:16,663 --> 00:24:19,875
No. I think, you know, I just wanted
to, you know, really thank our mayor,
508
00:24:19,916 --> 00:24:22,919
you know, for
just putting this call out to people.
509
00:24:23,587 --> 00:24:26,506
I think sometimes doing this work is,
510
00:24:26,506 --> 00:24:30,010
a little bit lonely because it doesn't
seem like anybody else wants to do it.
511
00:24:30,302 --> 00:24:33,388
And I think for me,
I'd like to really encourage other case
512
00:24:33,388 --> 00:24:37,184
management agencies, you know, to
just really get involved more also,
513
00:24:37,434 --> 00:24:40,187
because we certainly don't
want to be the only ones doing this,
514
00:24:40,187 --> 00:24:44,232
you know, and we really want other people
to feel like, yeah, we can do this too,
515
00:24:44,232 --> 00:24:48,695
especially now that the AG's are also,
assisting with filing for these petitions.
516
00:24:49,070 --> 00:24:53,825
You know, to me, it is part of the toolkit
that we have to help people
517
00:24:53,825 --> 00:24:57,662
who are chronically mentally ill
and who do not have the ability
518
00:24:57,662 --> 00:25:00,916
to make those decisions for themselves
that would help them get better.
519
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:02,709
Chris, I think that.
520
00:25:02,709 --> 00:25:05,712
Yeah, it's really good to see the
the mayor's office,
521
00:25:06,213 --> 00:25:07,923
giving attention to the issue.
522
00:25:07,923 --> 00:25:11,718
And I know the also the governor's office
in the state legislature.
523
00:25:12,552 --> 00:25:14,888
You know, I've learned a little bit
about how other states do
524
00:25:14,888 --> 00:25:17,891
these programs and, and in reality,
525
00:25:18,225 --> 00:25:21,728
Connie and her organization
are really doing the work
526
00:25:21,937 --> 00:25:24,898
that other states devote their entire,
you know, department
527
00:25:24,898 --> 00:25:26,066
in the Department of Health to doing.
528
00:25:26,066 --> 00:25:29,569
You know, it's normally a state function
that kind of goes top down.
529
00:25:29,986 --> 00:25:32,239
And what Connie is doing is
she's kind of doing a bottom up.
530
00:25:32,239 --> 00:25:33,114
And, and
531
00:25:33,114 --> 00:25:37,577
and by doing so is, is really kind
of carrying the burden for the community.
532
00:25:37,577 --> 00:25:39,162
So I appreciate now
533
00:25:39,162 --> 00:25:41,248
the, you know, the program
getting more attention
534
00:25:41,248 --> 00:25:44,042
and hopefully
getting more resources in an effort to.
535
00:25:45,544 --> 00:25:46,753
Well, thank you both.
536
00:25:46,753 --> 00:25:50,048
Like Chris mentioned, you can contact
the judiciary for more information
537
00:25:50,382 --> 00:25:54,553
as at gal@quartz.hawaii.gov.
538
00:25:54,553 --> 00:25:55,804
Thank you again for being here.
539
00:25:55,804 --> 00:25:56,388
And the mayor's
540
00:25:56,388 --> 00:25:59,808
next town hall meeting is tonight,
April 24th at Mililani High School.
541
00:26:00,183 --> 00:26:02,102
That start time is set for 7 p.m..
542
00:26:02,102 --> 00:26:04,104
We hope to see you there. Mahalo
for listening.
543
00:26:04,104 --> 00:26:05,814
And until next time, Aloha.
00:00:14,973 --> 00:00:16,725
Welcome to the One Oahu podcast.
2
00:00:16,725 --> 00:00:21,354
I'm your host, Brandi Higa,
and today is Thursday, April 24th, 2025.
3
00:00:21,563 --> 00:00:24,315
And we're joined this week
by Christopher Thomas and Connie Mitchell.
4
00:00:24,315 --> 00:00:26,234
Thank you both for being here.
5
00:00:26,234 --> 00:00:28,153
Thanks for the invite. Thanks again.
6
00:00:28,153 --> 00:00:29,446
So, Chris, can we start with you?
7
00:00:29,446 --> 00:00:31,531
Do you mind telling us your title,
8
00:00:31,531 --> 00:00:33,575
what you do,
and just a little bit about yourself?
9
00:00:33,575 --> 00:00:34,617
All right.
10
00:00:34,617 --> 00:00:36,494
So, my name is Christopher Thomas.
11
00:00:36,494 --> 00:00:38,705
I have a law office downtown Honolulu.
12
00:00:38,705 --> 00:00:42,292
I've been there for about 12 years,
and in that process,
13
00:00:42,292 --> 00:00:45,295
I got to meet Connie and her folks
at the Institute for Human Services.
14
00:00:45,670 --> 00:00:48,506
And so what I do
is I provide legal services
15
00:00:48,506 --> 00:00:52,302
to their institute,
mainly for, help with mental health law.
16
00:00:52,761 --> 00:00:53,386
Petitioning
17
00:00:53,386 --> 00:00:56,347
for assisted community treatment
orders, guardianship orders and the like.
18
00:00:57,098 --> 00:00:58,475
So that's my story.
19
00:00:58,475 --> 00:01:00,935
I got three kids. One's in college.
20
00:01:00,935 --> 00:01:04,981
Two are still, high school and grade
school, and my wife works downtown also.
21
00:01:05,023 --> 00:01:06,816
So that's my group.
22
00:01:06,816 --> 00:01:08,401
So you set up, about a decade.
23
00:01:08,401 --> 00:01:09,736
What were you doing before that?
24
00:01:09,736 --> 00:01:13,198
I was a military attorney with the Air
Force, in their JAG department.
25
00:01:13,198 --> 00:01:15,408
So that's kind of how I cut my teeth
as an attorney.
26
00:01:15,408 --> 00:01:18,411
Was, through my first job
as a JAG attorney.
27
00:01:18,661 --> 00:01:20,747
And kind of,
you know, introducing yourself.
28
00:01:20,747 --> 00:01:21,498
Okay.
29
00:01:21,498 --> 00:01:22,540
I'm Connie Mitchell, I'm
30
00:01:22,540 --> 00:01:26,044
the executive director
at IHS Institute for Human Services.
31
00:01:26,377 --> 00:01:28,463
Been there for almost 19 years.
32
00:01:28,463 --> 00:01:32,467
And before that, I was the director
of nursing at the Hawaii State Hospital.
33
00:01:32,759 --> 00:01:37,388
So that's how I came to know a lot of,
some of the people that I work with now,
34
00:01:37,388 --> 00:01:40,809
even because there were patients
there at the state hospital way back then.
35
00:01:41,267 --> 00:01:45,105
So, I've, I'm
a lifelong resident of Hawaii and,
36
00:01:46,106 --> 00:01:49,359
you know, have lived
and worked down in this area and downtown
37
00:01:49,359 --> 00:01:50,860
for a long time now.
38
00:01:50,860 --> 00:01:53,363
But I'm now a resident of Kaneohe.
39
00:01:53,363 --> 00:01:55,865
At last week's press conference,
Mayor Blangiardi issued
40
00:01:55,865 --> 00:02:00,370
kind of an urgent call to action, for
folks to ask community members to serve
41
00:02:00,370 --> 00:02:03,915
as advocates for homeless individuals
in forms of guardians ad litem.
42
00:02:03,915 --> 00:02:04,541
So first off,
43
00:02:04,541 --> 00:02:07,544
when people hear that not everyone knows
exactly what a guardian ad litem is.
44
00:02:07,836 --> 00:02:09,963
Chris, why don't you start about what
what what is a guardian at large?
45
00:02:09,963 --> 00:02:11,381
Yeah, it's sometimes hard to define.
46
00:02:11,381 --> 00:02:15,218
So there's there's a real delineation
between an attorney, in fact,
47
00:02:15,510 --> 00:02:17,345
and a guardian
ad litem in the court system.
48
00:02:17,345 --> 00:02:20,473
And attorney, in fact, is really someone
who is supposed to look out
49
00:02:20,473 --> 00:02:23,476
only for a person's best legal interest.
50
00:02:23,685 --> 00:02:26,980
A guardian ad litem, in my opinion,
is a more holistic role, which,
51
00:02:27,313 --> 00:02:31,025
entails looking out for
the person's legal interests
52
00:02:32,235 --> 00:02:35,238
medical
best interest, social best interests.
53
00:02:35,655 --> 00:02:38,241
Taking into account their family.
54
00:02:38,241 --> 00:02:39,367
And so a Guardian line
55
00:02:39,367 --> 00:02:43,204
was really supposed to be a caretaker
for someone going through a legal process,
56
00:02:43,538 --> 00:02:47,000
but it's not actually representing their,
specific legal need.
57
00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:47,792
That's not their role.
58
00:02:47,792 --> 00:02:49,711
So a guardian that outlines in our system,
59
00:02:49,711 --> 00:02:50,712
they're basically trying to take
60
00:02:50,712 --> 00:02:53,423
as much information as possible
and trying to figure out, hey,
61
00:02:53,423 --> 00:02:56,634
given all these parameters, what's going
to be best for this person moving forward?
62
00:02:57,218 --> 00:02:58,803
I think, dad.
63
00:02:58,803 --> 00:03:01,514
Yeah, I think, and, Chris,
maybe you can help me with this because,
64
00:03:01,514 --> 00:03:05,185
guardian and litem
also exists there in family court.
65
00:03:05,185 --> 00:03:06,311
A lot of the time.
66
00:03:06,311 --> 00:03:09,856
And, they represent, youth
also under age, youth.
67
00:03:10,148 --> 00:03:13,276
And so in most cases they're pretty much,
68
00:03:13,860 --> 00:03:17,530
representing
the best interests of the person.
69
00:03:17,780 --> 00:03:21,868
As you know, Chris was talking about,
you know, versus if the person just tells
70
00:03:21,868 --> 00:03:25,079
his attorney and the attorney is for them,
and you got to do this for me,
71
00:03:25,079 --> 00:03:28,875
then they have to basically do their best
to just carry out what they want, right?
72
00:03:29,375 --> 00:03:30,043
Yeah.
73
00:03:30,043 --> 00:03:33,046
I mean,
I mean, there's a duty of an attorney to,
74
00:03:33,296 --> 00:03:36,341
take instruction from
and do only what the client says.
75
00:03:37,634 --> 00:03:38,384
The issue with
76
00:03:38,384 --> 00:03:39,344
guardians ad litem
77
00:03:39,344 --> 00:03:43,640
or even attorneys, in fact, is that
if someone does not have the capacity
78
00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:47,268
to make those decisions like a child
or someone suffering from mental illness,
79
00:03:47,769 --> 00:03:50,563
they could be giving
their attorney instruction
80
00:03:50,563 --> 00:03:52,899
that is actually contrary
to what's best for them.
81
00:03:52,899 --> 00:03:55,235
Not only legally, but practically.
82
00:03:55,235 --> 00:03:56,569
And so
83
00:03:56,569 --> 00:03:59,864
that's where I, I believe the guardian ad
litem has a very unique role in that.
84
00:04:00,365 --> 00:04:04,118
They they are trained
and specifically are supposed
85
00:04:04,118 --> 00:04:07,121
to work with folks who can't really make
good decisions for themselves.
86
00:04:07,288 --> 00:04:10,458
A term that was also thrown around
last week in the press conferences, ect.
87
00:04:11,125 --> 00:04:12,627
What exactly does AC do?
88
00:04:12,627 --> 00:04:15,630
What's the functionality there?
89
00:04:15,672 --> 00:04:18,967
I'll give you my opinion
and kind of a nod to the okay, so assisted
90
00:04:18,967 --> 00:04:22,136
committed treatment in my opinion
is a under utilized law in Hawaii.
91
00:04:22,136 --> 00:04:25,473
That's chapter
334 of our mental health statute. And
92
00:04:26,557 --> 00:04:29,143
and what it basically entails is a law
93
00:04:29,143 --> 00:04:33,147
that's designed
to avoid the cycle of folks
94
00:04:33,147 --> 00:04:37,360
who need mental health treatment
going into a facility, involuntarily
95
00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:38,653
having to be admitted,
96
00:04:38,653 --> 00:04:40,780
perhaps being treated
for a very short period of time
97
00:04:40,780 --> 00:04:44,200
and then being released again
to the community or to the streets
98
00:04:44,617 --> 00:04:48,496
where they then repeat
this cycle of incompetence,
99
00:04:48,955 --> 00:04:50,832
perhaps violence,
100
00:04:50,832 --> 00:04:53,835
danger to themselves or others, and
they get it back to the hospital again.
101
00:04:54,127 --> 00:04:55,962
Assisted community treatment is designed
102
00:04:55,962 --> 00:04:58,965
to allow treatment
of these individuals who,
103
00:04:59,799 --> 00:05:02,593
don't necessarily
have to be confined into a hospital.
104
00:05:02,593 --> 00:05:04,178
They can treat them wherever they are.
105
00:05:04,178 --> 00:05:06,889
And in this case, all the folks
that we treat are on the streets.
106
00:05:06,889 --> 00:05:10,268
So, the benefits of assisted treatment,
in my opinion,
107
00:05:10,268 --> 00:05:14,230
are that you can treat folks anywhere,
including the streets or in their homes.
108
00:05:14,647 --> 00:05:18,818
And, it allows them to continue
to receive continuous care
109
00:05:19,068 --> 00:05:21,821
that they otherwise would avoid
if they keep cycling through a hospital
110
00:05:21,821 --> 00:05:23,197
or they get lost in the shuffle.
111
00:05:23,197 --> 00:05:28,077
So, the goal of assisted community
treatment, in my opinion, is, medication
112
00:05:28,077 --> 00:05:31,789
to get medication on board to help
treat mental illness and substance abuse.
113
00:05:31,789 --> 00:05:35,585
And the law allows our court
to make orders that someone be,
114
00:05:36,252 --> 00:05:39,047
basically given their
medication, whether they,
115
00:05:40,006 --> 00:05:42,800
you know, technically
are admitted to a hospital or not.
116
00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,010
Yeah. Anything to that.
117
00:05:44,010 --> 00:05:47,555
I think it's also to avoid them
being jailed, quite frankly,
118
00:05:47,555 --> 00:05:50,558
you know, because so many of the people
that don't know what they're doing,
119
00:05:50,725 --> 00:05:53,728
their behaviors in the community often,
120
00:05:53,978 --> 00:05:56,981
garner the attention of police
and then they're arrested.
121
00:05:56,981 --> 00:06:01,569
So the whole idea is to divert them from,
you know, the criminal justice system,
122
00:06:01,569 --> 00:06:05,490
if, in fact, what they're doing
is a result of their mental illness
123
00:06:05,490 --> 00:06:08,951
and it isn't necessarily a threat
to other people in a serious way,
124
00:06:09,285 --> 00:06:12,914
but that they themselves are just choosing
wrongly, you know, for
125
00:06:12,914 --> 00:06:14,624
themselves is not the best interests,
you know,
126
00:06:14,624 --> 00:06:16,793
for them
to be behaving the way that they are.
127
00:06:16,793 --> 00:06:19,295
So court
order, treatment in the community,
128
00:06:19,295 --> 00:06:21,339
in the least restrictive environment.
129
00:06:21,339 --> 00:06:26,469
So how many guardians ad litem do we
currently have working cases here on all.
130
00:06:27,553 --> 00:06:30,473
We've only come across two so far,
I think.
131
00:06:30,473 --> 00:06:31,599
And so,
132
00:06:31,599 --> 00:06:34,727
that's why the mayor was so concerned,
you know, because we said, well,
133
00:06:34,727 --> 00:06:38,773
we can't really do this on a larger scale
unless there's more people
134
00:06:38,773 --> 00:06:41,109
that are willing to serve
in that capacity.
135
00:06:41,109 --> 00:06:45,071
So, therefore,
that's what we tried to do last week.
136
00:06:45,446 --> 00:06:47,365
The type of individuals
that you both described.
137
00:06:47,365 --> 00:06:49,325
I mean, we all see them out there.
138
00:06:49,325 --> 00:06:52,995
But how many could benefit from
ECT here on Oahu?
139
00:06:53,579 --> 00:06:55,540
I ask Connie that all the time.
140
00:06:55,540 --> 00:06:58,334
And, you know, it's
not a hard and fast number.
141
00:06:58,334 --> 00:07:01,629
As you know, the
the government performs a point
142
00:07:01,629 --> 00:07:04,632
in time count every year, every year
or every other year.
143
00:07:04,674 --> 00:07:08,177
Well, it's we've been doing it every year,
but we skipped this past year
144
00:07:08,594 --> 00:07:09,720
because we didn't have to do it.
145
00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:11,848
So it's required every two years.
146
00:07:11,848 --> 00:07:14,559
And so we're probably moving forward.
Do it every two. Yeah.
147
00:07:14,559 --> 00:07:16,018
So that kind of sets the number of folks
148
00:07:16,018 --> 00:07:19,021
who are living unsheltered on Oahu
and on the other island.
149
00:07:19,522 --> 00:07:23,192
And then from that we try to break down
how many folks are suffering
150
00:07:23,192 --> 00:07:25,987
from serious mental illness.
And that's always a moving target.
151
00:07:25,987 --> 00:07:30,158
And then I always ask Connie, like,
how many people if we treated
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00:07:30,450 --> 00:07:33,244
and we're able to get orders
to treat our sister, give me a treatment.
153
00:07:33,244 --> 00:07:36,247
What would we need to do to change
kind of the environment,
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00:07:36,581 --> 00:07:39,417
or get the ball moving in the right
direction or gain momentum?
155
00:07:39,417 --> 00:07:43,796
And, we don't necessarily know the answer
that I can only answer that we need more,
156
00:07:44,213 --> 00:07:47,216
and always more and probably
will always answer that we need more.
157
00:07:47,842 --> 00:07:49,969
So we're trying to treat as many folks
as we can
158
00:07:49,969 --> 00:07:52,972
to kind of turn the tide of homelessness
and serious mental illness.
159
00:07:53,097 --> 00:07:56,809
But we're talking about hundreds
of people, you know, really, I think, on
160
00:07:56,809 --> 00:08:00,146
any given day,
if we were to do a count, you know,
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00:08:00,146 --> 00:08:02,982
you only see the people
maybe on the street,
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00:08:02,982 --> 00:08:06,777
but there are many more people
that are hidden, sometimes are in more,
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00:08:06,944 --> 00:08:09,906
rural areas,
not in the city areas, you know, so
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00:08:09,906 --> 00:08:12,909
I'd say, you know,
at least several hundred people, probably.
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00:08:13,034 --> 00:08:16,496
But we only can we only have capacity
to deal with those people
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00:08:16,496 --> 00:08:19,499
right now
that are most in front of our eyes.
167
00:08:19,499 --> 00:08:19,749
Right.
168
00:08:19,749 --> 00:08:22,502
You know,
but I think if we could help more people,
169
00:08:22,502 --> 00:08:26,380
we just have,
you know, just a more civil community,
170
00:08:26,380 --> 00:08:30,134
you know, where people are not, you know,
just really behaving in ways that,
171
00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:35,014
are a little bit intimidating sometimes
for the folks in Aurora out there.
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00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,268
So since the press conference last week,
what's been the response
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that each of you have been getting? Chris,
we can start with you.
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00:08:41,437 --> 00:08:44,899
Yeah, I actually got emails
that evening from attorneys
175
00:08:44,899 --> 00:08:47,193
that I know who reached out and said,
hey, how do I get involved?
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00:08:47,193 --> 00:08:50,738
So I was excited right off the bat
because it seemed like it got some
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00:08:50,738 --> 00:08:51,656
resonance right off the bat.
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00:08:52,615 --> 00:08:55,868
I don't know the numbers
that have now reached out to the judiciary
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00:08:55,868 --> 00:08:59,830
because I don't have access to
that information, but I do know that right
180
00:08:59,830 --> 00:09:02,166
away, some folks that I know were like,
hey, I'd like to get involved.
181
00:09:02,166 --> 00:09:03,668
I can't believe I didn't know about this.
182
00:09:03,668 --> 00:09:04,669
And hey,
183
00:09:04,669 --> 00:09:07,922
now that I know that there's something
I can do to help, I'd really like to help.
184
00:09:07,922 --> 00:09:10,508
So that was a good sign on my end. Yeah.
185
00:09:10,508 --> 00:09:13,511
Yeah, well, I'm not in the legal area
to folks.
186
00:09:13,511 --> 00:09:15,805
Reach out for more information. Or just
what is this or how.
187
00:09:15,805 --> 00:09:18,182
Yeah,
I think I think people are wanting to,
188
00:09:18,182 --> 00:09:21,519
expand on, you know, what was shared
at the press conference last week.
189
00:09:21,727 --> 00:09:24,897
So I think there is going to be,
you know, more coverage about,
190
00:09:24,897 --> 00:09:28,025
you know, act
and the need for Friday night lambs.
191
00:09:28,025 --> 00:09:29,944
Also by the general media.
192
00:09:29,944 --> 00:09:31,821
So I'm excited about that.
193
00:09:31,821 --> 00:09:36,325
But guardians, a lot of it, it feels like
almost like passion project work.
194
00:09:36,325 --> 00:09:39,161
I know that there's
some compensation, but,
195
00:09:39,161 --> 00:09:41,080
call me what we can start with you
on this one.
196
00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,165
Why why is this work important? What?
197
00:09:43,165 --> 00:09:44,375
What makes it worth it?
198
00:09:44,375 --> 00:09:45,585
Is is it worth it?
199
00:09:45,585 --> 00:09:47,545
I mean, there's only two right now.
200
00:09:47,545 --> 00:09:47,920
Yeah.
201
00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:51,882
I think, actually, Chris is is probably
a better person to speak on this
202
00:09:51,882 --> 00:09:55,344
because he is an attorney
and we're talking to attorneys, right.
203
00:09:55,636 --> 00:09:58,389
But, you know, from my perspective,
the whole process,
204
00:09:58,389 --> 00:10:02,310
you know, of Act is one that is so needed.
205
00:10:02,310 --> 00:10:05,896
You know, people are, quick to complain
about what they see on the street.
206
00:10:06,230 --> 00:10:08,774
But then, you know,
when we are talking about solutions
207
00:10:08,774 --> 00:10:11,861
and this is a real solution,
we need people to step up.
208
00:10:12,194 --> 00:10:13,446
But Chris.
209
00:10:13,446 --> 00:10:15,906
Yeah, I mean, I could get on my soapbox
and tell you what
210
00:10:15,906 --> 00:10:19,660
I think about that question, but my what
I always tell folks is this is,
211
00:10:20,077 --> 00:10:24,582
you know, when I drive from my house,
Kailua, over the Pali to my downtown
212
00:10:24,999 --> 00:10:28,002
comfortable office,
I drive by 100 people every day.
213
00:10:28,169 --> 00:10:30,796
And when I see those folks, it
214
00:10:30,796 --> 00:10:33,507
it really it really gets to me.
215
00:10:33,507 --> 00:10:36,218
And that's one of the reasons
I got involved in the first place.
216
00:10:36,218 --> 00:10:39,013
And as I'm doing that,
I'm thinking to myself, okay,
217
00:10:39,013 --> 00:10:42,975
how difficult is it for someone who has,
you know, the wherewithal
218
00:10:42,975 --> 00:10:46,729
as an attorney to get involved
and help out and a guardian ad litem,
219
00:10:47,563 --> 00:10:50,941
is a perfect role
for someone who knows there's a problem.
220
00:10:50,941 --> 00:10:54,612
And we all know there's problem
that can do something about it
221
00:10:54,862 --> 00:10:57,615
in even a small way,
by taking a case or two,
222
00:10:57,615 --> 00:11:00,826
and would have a real difference
not only in the life of that individual,
223
00:11:00,826 --> 00:11:03,871
but in the lives of the folks
that frequent downtown or wherever,
224
00:11:04,246 --> 00:11:06,415
you know, is affected by homelessness
and serious mental illness.
225
00:11:06,415 --> 00:11:10,461
So for me, it's like one of those
no brainers that an attorney
226
00:11:10,461 --> 00:11:14,465
can really very easily
without a lot of training or extra
227
00:11:14,465 --> 00:11:17,677
effort, jump into,
and then the work itself is rewarded.
228
00:11:17,677 --> 00:11:21,430
I, like you said, you know, it may not be,
you know, the money that
229
00:11:21,430 --> 00:11:22,807
an attorney would otherwise.
230
00:11:23,974 --> 00:11:26,018
You know, see from their normal clientele.
231
00:11:26,018 --> 00:11:28,270
But this is something
that's serving their community also.
232
00:11:28,270 --> 00:11:31,273
And from a holistic standpoint,
I think that's really appealing.
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00:11:31,565 --> 00:11:34,151
So it's one of those things
that any attorney could do.
234
00:11:34,151 --> 00:11:38,322
So when the question is, you know,
how many guardians I let him do we need?
235
00:11:38,322 --> 00:11:40,116
My answer is always more.
236
00:11:40,116 --> 00:11:41,826
And who can get involved in my answer?
237
00:11:41,826 --> 00:11:45,413
Is anybody anybody that has a,
you know, attorneys license
238
00:11:45,413 --> 00:11:48,416
the judiciary will vet you
and approve you,
239
00:11:48,791 --> 00:11:51,001
I know from experience
that there's a lot of different places
240
00:11:51,001 --> 00:11:54,004
that attorneys can devote their time
and their volunteer hours.
241
00:11:54,213 --> 00:11:57,216
So there's all sorts
of great organizations in the state where
242
00:11:57,675 --> 00:12:00,761
even for no money, for no charge pro
bono work,
243
00:12:00,761 --> 00:12:03,889
you can spend hours and hours and hours
serving your community.
244
00:12:03,889 --> 00:12:06,142
I get it.
So there's other places that people go to.
245
00:12:06,142 --> 00:12:08,728
But for the
the problem that's right in front of us.
246
00:12:08,728 --> 00:12:12,982
Homelessness and serious mental illness
in Waikiki and downtown in Chinatown.
247
00:12:13,691 --> 00:12:16,485
I mean, you can
you can see a tangible result.
248
00:12:16,485 --> 00:12:19,447
You know, when I volunteer
my pro-bono hours, other organizations,
249
00:12:19,655 --> 00:12:22,992
I may meet somebody and help them out,
but I don't see them through to the end,
250
00:12:23,451 --> 00:12:27,163
and I don't necessarily get the impression
that I'm making, you know, this huge
251
00:12:27,163 --> 00:12:28,748
watershed difference in their life,
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00:12:28,748 --> 00:12:31,876
you know, and I'm helping them out
as, a pro bono client with a Guardian
253
00:12:31,876 --> 00:12:36,005
ad litem serving an individual for an Act
petition.
254
00:12:36,005 --> 00:12:38,549
You're really, in my opinion,
changing that person's life.
255
00:12:38,549 --> 00:12:43,012
So, from that perspective,
I think it's very rewarding.
256
00:12:43,012 --> 00:12:46,640
It's kind of a, a
no brainer for an attorney to get involved
257
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,350
if they're really concerned
about the community.
258
00:12:48,350 --> 00:12:51,270
See where it took you to to know that,
that you do get to see it to the end.
259
00:12:51,270 --> 00:12:51,395
Right?
260
00:12:51,395 --> 00:12:52,688
Like you
said, there's so many different places
261
00:12:52,688 --> 00:12:55,691
you could devote your time, your energy,
and even your volunteer hours.
262
00:12:56,066 --> 00:13:00,070
So what got you into this field,
this kind of work in the first place?
263
00:13:00,070 --> 00:13:03,032
I guess the the way people ask
that is what what is your why?
264
00:13:03,032 --> 00:13:03,491
Why did you.
265
00:13:03,491 --> 00:13:07,119
Even think it was just that just, everyday
walking the streets?
266
00:13:07,119 --> 00:13:09,413
Gail going to get lunch
and being like, why?
267
00:13:09,413 --> 00:13:12,500
Why is
why is Honolulu moving in this direction
268
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,295
that could otherwise
be avoided with some good laws? Act,
269
00:13:17,421 --> 00:13:17,797
some good
270
00:13:17,797 --> 00:13:20,925
legal work and the judiciary
and the government gave.
271
00:13:20,925 --> 00:13:23,928
Well, why can't we do something about it?
272
00:13:24,053 --> 00:13:26,472
I don't specifically remember
how we got hooked up
273
00:13:26,472 --> 00:13:29,558
to start act work, but I do know that
it was kind of like that.
274
00:13:29,558 --> 00:13:31,852
Hey, I saw a problem.
I wanted to get involved.
275
00:13:31,852 --> 00:13:34,396
I think you reached out to me.
Or vice versa.
276
00:13:34,396 --> 00:13:38,150
We had some early success on a case
that kind of otherwise
277
00:13:38,150 --> 00:13:39,401
was kind of hopeless,
278
00:13:39,401 --> 00:13:42,071
and we were like, hey, this could work,
and let's see how far we could take it.
279
00:13:42,071 --> 00:13:44,073
So, that was kind of my.
280
00:13:44,073 --> 00:13:47,326
I think our first case actually
was somebody from Kailua.
281
00:13:47,535 --> 00:13:48,452
All right. Yeah.
282
00:13:48,452 --> 00:13:53,040
And I think, for Chris,
he's had the opportunity to see the before
283
00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,501
and after all the way, which, you know, is
284
00:13:55,501 --> 00:13:57,962
I think is really encouraging
when you can see it.
285
00:13:57,962 --> 00:14:01,841
And I think for me, particularly
because I've seen people who are,
286
00:14:02,091 --> 00:14:04,426
who have been my patients
at the state hospital
287
00:14:04,426 --> 00:14:07,346
and then out on the street,
and then when we can treat them again
288
00:14:07,346 --> 00:14:11,267
and see what medication and treatment
can do and housing,
289
00:14:11,267 --> 00:14:14,270
you know, really getting them back
into housing can do for somebody.
290
00:14:14,395 --> 00:14:16,689
You know, I that's what keeps me going,
you know,
291
00:14:16,689 --> 00:14:19,692
is that I really feel like
we can make a difference here.
292
00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:21,777
But before I just before state hospital.
293
00:14:21,777 --> 00:14:24,363
Connie, why did you get into this work?
Same question I ask her.
294
00:14:24,363 --> 00:14:25,072
Why did you.
295
00:14:25,072 --> 00:14:25,948
What is your. Why?
296
00:14:25,948 --> 00:14:30,119
Well, I'm a psychiatric clinical nurse
specialist, you know, and I went into,
297
00:14:30,369 --> 00:14:33,706
nursing, first of all, general nursing
because of my dad.
298
00:14:33,706 --> 00:14:37,960
You know, I watched him, you know, suffer,
a long time with a medical condition.
299
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,004
But then, you know, I saw,
300
00:14:41,046 --> 00:14:42,214
I had the experience of
301
00:14:42,214 --> 00:14:46,010
having a couple of people that I knew
closely actually commit suicide.
302
00:14:46,010 --> 00:14:49,555
And that's when I decided
I would go into, psychiatric nursing.
303
00:14:49,847 --> 00:14:54,643
So I think for me, you know, sometimes,
looking back, it's those pain points
304
00:14:54,643 --> 00:14:59,481
in my life that have really, and passion
me to say this doesn't have to happen.
305
00:14:59,523 --> 00:15:00,649
You know, let's make a different,
306
00:15:00,649 --> 00:15:04,111
you know, way for some people and prevent
some of these things, you know.
307
00:15:04,778 --> 00:15:05,195
Yeah.
308
00:15:05,195 --> 00:15:07,156
There's no question
that this is a very tough work.
309
00:15:07,156 --> 00:15:08,616
But, Connie, for you,
310
00:15:08,616 --> 00:15:12,536
you know, like you just said, you've been
through a lot on the hard days.
311
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:14,788
What do you do to make them better?
312
00:15:14,788 --> 00:15:16,540
Are you a glass of wine kind of gal?
313
00:15:16,540 --> 00:15:17,666
Are you a go for a ride?
314
00:15:17,666 --> 00:15:19,877
What do you do to get back to the center?
315
00:15:21,128 --> 00:15:24,340
I think just, you know, going home
and just being able to unwind.
316
00:15:24,340 --> 00:15:25,507
I'm really fortunate.
317
00:15:25,507 --> 00:15:28,177
My husband is in psych,
in mental health as well.
318
00:15:28,177 --> 00:15:31,889
And so he really understands
and so I like to think that, you know,
319
00:15:32,097 --> 00:15:36,268
being able to talk about stuff
and have somebody really understand
320
00:15:36,268 --> 00:15:41,315
what it means, you know, to be a part of,
helping to heal somebody else.
321
00:15:41,607 --> 00:15:42,608
You know, the hard days.
322
00:15:42,608 --> 00:15:44,026
I know there's going to be another day,
323
00:15:44,026 --> 00:15:47,404
and I'm going to fight for that
next day where we can do something good.
324
00:15:47,780 --> 00:15:51,158
Because I remember in the earlier days
when we were just feeling like,
325
00:15:51,450 --> 00:15:54,787
wow, why is it so hard, you know, to
get one of these cases through the courts?
326
00:15:54,787 --> 00:15:55,663
You know,
327
00:15:55,663 --> 00:15:59,708
but slowly but surely, you know,
we get knocked down, but we get up again
328
00:15:59,708 --> 00:16:00,668
and we decide, okay,
329
00:16:00,668 --> 00:16:03,671
we're going to do a little bit different
next time and see what we can do.
330
00:16:03,796 --> 00:16:08,133
So just the, ability
to see people reunited with family,
331
00:16:08,467 --> 00:16:11,679
see people
being able to enjoy their life again,
332
00:16:11,679 --> 00:16:15,099
you know, having the capability to even,
you know, know that,
333
00:16:15,474 --> 00:16:17,559
hey, they can be happy about something,
you know,
334
00:16:17,559 --> 00:16:21,105
and really look forward to something
that really, you know, keeps me going.
335
00:16:21,355 --> 00:16:22,272
Yeah. Chris, what about you?
336
00:16:23,607 --> 00:16:24,233
Oh, yeah.
337
00:16:24,233 --> 00:16:26,777
So I like I said, I have three boys and,
338
00:16:26,777 --> 00:16:29,780
chasing them around
and trying to keep from drowning and,
339
00:16:30,406 --> 00:16:33,742
you know, that's kind of where
I burn my energy chasing them around.
340
00:16:33,742 --> 00:16:36,036
So, yeah, they're a good time.
341
00:16:36,036 --> 00:16:39,039
You kind of mentioned,
you know, reuniting people with family.
342
00:16:39,081 --> 00:16:40,165
There are those good stories.
343
00:16:40,165 --> 00:16:43,752
So on the tough days, Connie,
is there a story that you fall back on
344
00:16:43,752 --> 00:16:46,797
that you kind of remember that that helps
when times do get a little tougher?
345
00:16:47,881 --> 00:16:51,260
I think there was one, you know, patient
that I had in the hospital before.
346
00:16:51,260 --> 00:16:55,848
And then I saw again on the street
and it was just, so sad for me,
347
00:16:55,848 --> 00:16:59,393
you know, to see how far,
how far that person had fallen
348
00:16:59,768 --> 00:17:02,271
and being able
to do the act on that person
349
00:17:02,271 --> 00:17:05,607
and seeing that person back
in, you know, housing
350
00:17:05,941 --> 00:17:10,320
and being able to enjoy life again,
that really made a huge difference for me.
351
00:17:10,738 --> 00:17:12,489
But there are so many cases, Brendan.
352
00:17:12,489 --> 00:17:13,532
You know, it's not just one.
353
00:17:13,532 --> 00:17:17,244
And so I just really keep telling myself,
naw, you know, like we keep doing this
354
00:17:17,244 --> 00:17:20,330
because there's so many other people and,
you know, it's not just that one person
355
00:17:20,664 --> 00:17:25,002
because they have family too, you know,
and when you help that person,
356
00:17:25,335 --> 00:17:28,756
suddenly there are other people
that are affected by that too,
357
00:17:28,756 --> 00:17:30,549
by that recovery and that healing.
358
00:17:30,549 --> 00:17:32,217
And so I, you know, tend to think
359
00:17:32,217 --> 00:17:35,679
about how we're all connected
and how when we're helping one person,
360
00:17:36,013 --> 00:17:39,099
there's so many other people
that end up getting touched by that, too.
361
00:17:39,516 --> 00:17:42,686
I know folks have asked you this before,
but what do you love most about your job?
362
00:17:45,022 --> 00:17:46,356
Actually, I love
363
00:17:46,356 --> 00:17:50,694
watching my staff just really serve people
the way that they do.
364
00:17:51,070 --> 00:17:56,408
They love on them really heavily, and
they just know how to connect with people.
365
00:17:56,784 --> 00:17:59,453
And, you know,
sometimes I feel like it's really
366
00:17:59,453 --> 00:18:02,498
the folks that we're serving
that teach me about stuff, too, because,
367
00:18:02,915 --> 00:18:06,877
you know, we all kind of wrestle
with our own stresses and, you know, like,
368
00:18:07,544 --> 00:18:10,506
maybe losing things, you know, and,
369
00:18:10,506 --> 00:18:12,633
feeling like we don't have enough.
370
00:18:12,633 --> 00:18:13,926
And I look at people,
371
00:18:13,926 --> 00:18:17,596
you know, who sometimes, you know,
are on the street and having experience.
372
00:18:17,888 --> 00:18:19,181
Houselessness.
373
00:18:19,181 --> 00:18:24,186
They have so little, but they still know
how to, you know, experience joy.
374
00:18:24,937 --> 00:18:27,356
You know, as long as we connect
and there are people
375
00:18:27,356 --> 00:18:28,982
that are connecting with them.
376
00:18:28,982 --> 00:18:32,653
And so, it's just, it's
just a real good place
377
00:18:32,653 --> 00:18:35,823
to be, you know, to know that you don't
have to have a lot of stuff sometimes.
378
00:18:35,823 --> 00:18:38,033
And, you know, you can learn from anybody.
379
00:18:39,284 --> 00:18:39,827
Chris, if
380
00:18:39,827 --> 00:18:42,830
your boys are sitting in here
and I ask them what you do, or they say.
381
00:18:42,871 --> 00:18:47,835
Oh, answer the phone and send email,
that's what.
382
00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:51,672
My youngest gets a drag in the office
all the time, and you make him do his
383
00:18:51,672 --> 00:18:54,133
homework, and he's like, all you do
is answer the phone and do email.
384
00:18:54,133 --> 00:18:55,884
But, you know,
I'm actually thinking about stuff.
385
00:18:55,884 --> 00:18:58,137
And so they kind of give me a hard time.
386
00:18:58,137 --> 00:19:02,141
But, yeah, I think they, I think
they kind of as they get older, they know,
387
00:19:03,392 --> 00:19:06,311
part of my role as an attorney
is to try to help out the community.
388
00:19:06,311 --> 00:19:09,565
And I think they appreciate that it
they won't tell me that, but they'll
389
00:19:10,065 --> 00:19:13,068
someday,
hopefully be more receptive to that.
390
00:19:13,193 --> 00:19:13,652
I'll tell you.
391
00:19:13,652 --> 00:19:16,446
I'll tell you one of my stories
that Connie was kind of alluding to is,
392
00:19:18,157 --> 00:19:19,658
when we first started,
393
00:19:19,658 --> 00:19:22,327
Connie said we got to serve the
the worst of the worst.
394
00:19:22,327 --> 00:19:22,995
Right?
395
00:19:22,995 --> 00:19:25,873
So, like, we're kind of triaging, like,
you know,
396
00:19:25,873 --> 00:19:28,959
how bad people were mentally,
our mental illness wise.
397
00:19:28,959 --> 00:19:30,544
And those are going to be our priorities.
398
00:19:30,544 --> 00:19:32,504
And I'm not saying this
because the person is a bad person.
399
00:19:32,504 --> 00:19:33,589
They were just behaving badly.
400
00:19:33,589 --> 00:19:38,385
But we targeted an individual who,
barely ever wore clothes.
401
00:19:38,385 --> 00:19:41,555
He would run in front of busses,
he would terrorize tourists,
402
00:19:42,055 --> 00:19:43,599
he would expose himself.
403
00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:44,391
The guardian, light him.
404
00:19:44,391 --> 00:19:48,020
In that case,
I think had to run from him at one point.
405
00:19:48,270 --> 00:19:50,856
And I'm not saying that to dissuade people
from being Guardians line,
406
00:19:50,856 --> 00:19:52,983
but he was just like, this guy's too scary
407
00:19:52,983 --> 00:19:54,484
to even get on the same side
of the street.
408
00:19:54,484 --> 00:19:58,614
And, and we went through the Act process
and it was a real slog
409
00:19:58,906 --> 00:20:00,282
because there's one of our first cases,
410
00:20:00,282 --> 00:20:03,285
and we were getting challenged
by all sorts of different entities.
411
00:20:03,285 --> 00:20:06,997
And, but then we finally got the order
and we're like, hey, we got an order. And,
412
00:20:08,707 --> 00:20:10,500
I think it was like a year later
we were doing,
413
00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:12,211
I call it walkabout, where I go out
414
00:20:12,211 --> 00:20:16,089
with the doctor and the outreach workers
and whoever wants to tag along,
415
00:20:16,089 --> 00:20:18,550
and we kind of go
check out how people are doing.
416
00:20:18,550 --> 00:20:21,553
Whatever. Yeah. And, one morning,
417
00:20:22,095 --> 00:20:24,181
I remember they were like,
hey, let's have a coffee.
418
00:20:24,181 --> 00:20:24,765
Let's sit down here.
419
00:20:24,765 --> 00:20:27,309
And I sat down and there was a guy
that was sitting next to me
420
00:20:27,309 --> 00:20:31,813
having coffee also, and he was a t shirt
and his hair was well cut.
421
00:20:32,022 --> 00:20:33,982
He had a backpack on,
422
00:20:33,982 --> 00:20:36,818
and I thought he was just another guy
having coffee, you know,
423
00:20:36,818 --> 00:20:40,572
and we were kind of sitting on fourth
Street Mall and our doctor said, do
424
00:20:40,572 --> 00:20:41,365
you know who that is?
425
00:20:42,866 --> 00:20:43,533
And I said, no.
426
00:20:43,533 --> 00:20:46,954
And it was, it was that individual
that we had got that order for.
427
00:20:46,954 --> 00:20:50,791
And he had recovered to a degree
that he wasn't, you know,
428
00:20:51,458 --> 00:20:54,127
he was not going to run for mayor or,
you know, be a world beater.
429
00:20:54,127 --> 00:20:56,505
But he was
he was not trying to harm anyone.
430
00:20:56,505 --> 00:20:57,714
He wasn't harm himself.
431
00:20:57,714 --> 00:21:00,217
And he had a haircut
and he was moving on with life.
432
00:21:00,217 --> 00:21:03,720
And that one to me was just like,
that's the reason that, you know,
433
00:21:04,263 --> 00:21:06,974
this work needs to be done.
434
00:21:06,974 --> 00:21:09,685
And so if someone knows a lawyer
or is a lawyer
435
00:21:09,685 --> 00:21:12,688
or wants to find out more,
what's your advice to them.
436
00:21:14,231 --> 00:21:15,607
For assisted community treatment?
437
00:21:15,607 --> 00:21:17,067
Yeah.
438
00:21:17,067 --> 00:21:18,568
As a guardian ad litem or an attorney.
439
00:21:18,568 --> 00:21:21,405
Or just want to know more,
or maybe you thinking about it,
440
00:21:21,405 --> 00:21:24,032
but you know,
they weren't really familiar with the.
441
00:21:25,242 --> 00:21:27,911
Yeah, I contacted judiciary contact
Connie, contacted myself.
442
00:21:27,911 --> 00:21:30,539
Contact the mayor's office.
443
00:21:30,539 --> 00:21:32,749
You know,
it is kind of an amorphous concept.
444
00:21:32,749 --> 00:21:34,918
You know, what is what is this? This?
You mean treatment, right?
445
00:21:34,918 --> 00:21:36,670
How does it work? How do I get involved?
446
00:21:36,670 --> 00:21:39,673
But in in reality, what it really is, is,
447
00:21:40,299 --> 00:21:44,886
you know, just the, the nuts and bolts
of gathering information
448
00:21:44,886 --> 00:21:48,223
and making good decisions and getting
people moved in the right direction.
449
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,643
And there's no we've learned
there's no right or wrong to
450
00:21:52,227 --> 00:21:55,147
how you do it
or how it gets done necessarily.
451
00:21:55,147 --> 00:21:56,481
As long as within the boundaries
of the law.
452
00:21:56,481 --> 00:21:59,484
But, you know, there's, there's,
453
00:21:59,735 --> 00:22:02,571
it's really you can do how, however
and whatever you want.
454
00:22:02,571 --> 00:22:04,281
I always tell folks
that want to get involved.
455
00:22:04,281 --> 00:22:05,866
It's kind of nice to
456
00:22:05,866 --> 00:22:09,578
get out of your office, you know,
walk the streets a little bit, meet people
457
00:22:09,911 --> 00:22:11,663
and get a bunch of information
and kind of,
458
00:22:11,663 --> 00:22:14,708
you know, see a little bit different
perspective on how legal work can,
459
00:22:14,916 --> 00:22:15,709
can help people out.
460
00:22:15,709 --> 00:22:16,126
And Randy,
461
00:22:16,126 --> 00:22:19,254
I think I, on the other hand, you know,
I feel like when I got into this
462
00:22:19,254 --> 00:22:20,630
kind of work went homelessness.
463
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:23,091
You know, I had left the hospital
and I thought, oh, okay.
464
00:22:23,091 --> 00:22:23,884
I didn't realize
465
00:22:23,884 --> 00:22:27,888
I was going to deal with so many mentally
ill people still, you know, but,
466
00:22:29,264 --> 00:22:32,392
I also didn't
realize I was going to be getting involved
467
00:22:32,392 --> 00:22:35,562
in the legal system as much, you know,
going to court and that sort of thing.
468
00:22:35,937 --> 00:22:39,024
And, that has been really interesting
for me because at one time,
469
00:22:39,024 --> 00:22:43,028
very early in life,
I thought I might go into, law myself.
470
00:22:43,028 --> 00:22:43,445
Right.
471
00:22:43,445 --> 00:22:43,779
But then.
472
00:22:43,779 --> 00:22:45,614
So I don't think I will do that.
473
00:22:45,614 --> 00:22:47,032
I'll go into nursing instead.
474
00:22:47,032 --> 00:22:51,370
But I think, you know,
just being able to see how, again,
475
00:22:51,370 --> 00:22:54,873
we're also connected, you know,
and how everybody has a different role.
476
00:22:55,123 --> 00:22:57,459
And in this particular, process.
477
00:22:57,459 --> 00:22:58,794
That is so true.
478
00:22:58,794 --> 00:23:00,629
You know, like Chris has his role.
479
00:23:00,629 --> 00:23:03,548
I have my role. You know,
our outreach workers have their role.
480
00:23:03,548 --> 00:23:07,511
And just really connecting with the person
and getting them to a place where,
481
00:23:08,220 --> 00:23:09,638
you know, they might even,
482
00:23:09,638 --> 00:23:13,266
you know, take medication
even before we get an act order.
483
00:23:13,475 --> 00:23:15,185
And I, I want to say that, too,
you know, it's not like
484
00:23:15,185 --> 00:23:18,313
we do this with every single person
that is mentally ill,
485
00:23:18,688 --> 00:23:20,732
but it's those people
that are just so entrenched
486
00:23:20,732 --> 00:23:22,025
and they're headed down this path
487
00:23:22,025 --> 00:23:25,445
where there's something bad going
to happen to them or to somebody else.
488
00:23:25,821 --> 00:23:28,031
But, you know,
there are so many other people
489
00:23:28,031 --> 00:23:29,032
that in the course
490
00:23:29,032 --> 00:23:32,077
of trying to get them treatment
and thinking we needed to do act,
491
00:23:33,203 --> 00:23:33,787
they took their
492
00:23:33,787 --> 00:23:37,874
medication and we would see these,
you know, real amazing recoveries.
493
00:23:37,874 --> 00:23:40,419
And then we thought, oh,
I guess we don't have to do the act here.
494
00:23:40,419 --> 00:23:42,379
We don't have to be in such a hurry
to do it.
495
00:23:42,379 --> 00:23:43,755
Let's see what where this goes.
496
00:23:43,755 --> 00:23:46,508
And then sometimes getting the act
is about helping
497
00:23:46,508 --> 00:23:49,803
that person stay on their medication,
because maybe they feel like,
498
00:23:50,011 --> 00:23:51,972
oh, I'm so good,
I don't really need to take medication.
499
00:23:51,972 --> 00:23:55,684
And many people who are mentally ill do
decide to stop taking their medication.
500
00:23:56,059 --> 00:23:58,895
But I think what we're trying to do
is help people to have
501
00:23:58,895 --> 00:24:02,649
that kind of stability
that allows them to just keep going
502
00:24:02,649 --> 00:24:05,861
and keep getting better and recovering
and being able to be,
503
00:24:06,945 --> 00:24:09,239
the beneficiary of the rehabilitation
504
00:24:09,239 --> 00:24:12,409
and reconnecting
with their life and their loved ones.
505
00:24:13,869 --> 00:24:14,536
Well, thank you both.
506
00:24:14,536 --> 00:24:16,663
Is there anything that we missed?
507
00:24:16,663 --> 00:24:19,875
No. I think, you know, I just wanted
to, you know, really thank our mayor,
508
00:24:19,916 --> 00:24:22,919
you know, for
just putting this call out to people.
509
00:24:23,587 --> 00:24:26,506
I think sometimes doing this work is,
510
00:24:26,506 --> 00:24:30,010
a little bit lonely because it doesn't
seem like anybody else wants to do it.
511
00:24:30,302 --> 00:24:33,388
And I think for me,
I'd like to really encourage other case
512
00:24:33,388 --> 00:24:37,184
management agencies, you know, to
just really get involved more also,
513
00:24:37,434 --> 00:24:40,187
because we certainly don't
want to be the only ones doing this,
514
00:24:40,187 --> 00:24:44,232
you know, and we really want other people
to feel like, yeah, we can do this too,
515
00:24:44,232 --> 00:24:48,695
especially now that the AG's are also,
assisting with filing for these petitions.
516
00:24:49,070 --> 00:24:53,825
You know, to me, it is part of the toolkit
that we have to help people
517
00:24:53,825 --> 00:24:57,662
who are chronically mentally ill
and who do not have the ability
518
00:24:57,662 --> 00:25:00,916
to make those decisions for themselves
that would help them get better.
519
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:02,709
Chris, I think that.
520
00:25:02,709 --> 00:25:05,712
Yeah, it's really good to see the
the mayor's office,
521
00:25:06,213 --> 00:25:07,923
giving attention to the issue.
522
00:25:07,923 --> 00:25:11,718
And I know the also the governor's office
in the state legislature.
523
00:25:12,552 --> 00:25:14,888
You know, I've learned a little bit
about how other states do
524
00:25:14,888 --> 00:25:17,891
these programs and, and in reality,
525
00:25:18,225 --> 00:25:21,728
Connie and her organization
are really doing the work
526
00:25:21,937 --> 00:25:24,898
that other states devote their entire,
you know, department
527
00:25:24,898 --> 00:25:26,066
in the Department of Health to doing.
528
00:25:26,066 --> 00:25:29,569
You know, it's normally a state function
that kind of goes top down.
529
00:25:29,986 --> 00:25:32,239
And what Connie is doing is
she's kind of doing a bottom up.
530
00:25:32,239 --> 00:25:33,114
And, and
531
00:25:33,114 --> 00:25:37,577
and by doing so is, is really kind
of carrying the burden for the community.
532
00:25:37,577 --> 00:25:39,162
So I appreciate now
533
00:25:39,162 --> 00:25:41,248
the, you know, the program
getting more attention
534
00:25:41,248 --> 00:25:44,042
and hopefully
getting more resources in an effort to.
535
00:25:45,544 --> 00:25:46,753
Well, thank you both.
536
00:25:46,753 --> 00:25:50,048
Like Chris mentioned, you can contact
the judiciary for more information
537
00:25:50,382 --> 00:25:54,553
as at gal@quartz.hawaii.gov.
538
00:25:54,553 --> 00:25:55,804
Thank you again for being here.
539
00:25:55,804 --> 00:25:56,388
And the mayor's
540
00:25:56,388 --> 00:25:59,808
next town hall meeting is tonight,
April 24th at Mililani High School.
541
00:26:00,183 --> 00:26:02,102
That start time is set for 7 p.m..
542
00:26:02,102 --> 00:26:04,104
We hope to see you there. Mahalo
for listening.
543
00:26:04,104 --> 00:26:05,814
And until next time, Aloha.
