Will AI Replace Mortgage Brokers in 2 years? Jammjar CEO Karl Griffin Reveals What's Coming...

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Hi and welcome to the Financial Services Show with myself, Terry Blackburn.
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I've been in the industry 17 years.
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I've been in the trenches.
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I'm one of you guys.
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I've recruited hundreds of advisors into my own businesses.
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I've trained thousands of advisors.
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I'm arguably training more than anybody else in this entire country right now.
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And now I'm going to give away everything that I know on this show to help as many people as possible in financial services.
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This podcast is all about what's actually working right now.
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From a sales perspective, from a lead gen and marketing perspective, we're also going to cover things like AI.
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We're going to cover things like efficiency, how to grow and scale your company, how to grow your wealth, and ultimately how to be more successful in financial services.
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So whether you're a mortgage broker, whether you're a protection broker, whether you're an estate planner, whether you're a financial advisor, anybody in financial services, financial services professionals, this show is for you.
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My objective and mission is to help as many of you as physically possible.
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I love this industry.
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It's did so much for me and it's time to give it all back.
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I'm excited to have you here.
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So let's get into it.
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Carl Griffin, welcome to the Financial Services Show.
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How are you doing?
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I'm good.
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I'm glad you have me along.
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Thanks a lot.
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Thanks for coming.
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Love Jamjaw.
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Love everything that you're doing.
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So Carl is the founder and CEO of Jamjaw.
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Fantastic company.
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If anyone hasn't already seen it or looked into it, I'd advise that you do.
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But let's go straight in, Carl.
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We've got lots of topics to discuss.
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In your opinion, will AI replace mortgage brokers or will brokers using AI simply replace the ones that don't use AI?
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Okay.
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I think the answer is a bit of both.
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And I think it's already happening as well.
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People say, you know, will it happen?
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And when they look back, they'll realize it started when they were asking what comes next.
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I think that mostly people are watching the wrong horizon.
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So you did ask, will brokers using AI replace brokers that won't?
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I think there will be an element of that for sure.
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There's gonna be winners and losers when all is said and done and this AI transformation happens.
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But I think the really interesting thing that we're watching is that competition is going to come from different places.
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And we're already seeing the stage being set for that now, if you look closely.
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And, you know, the FCA Mills Review, you know, their words, not mine, say that AI is going to be able to deliver continuous advice.
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And whoever owns the relationship with the customer.
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At the point that they need advice about a transaction, they're going to be the ones that ultimately win.
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And I think when you think about the landscape and the way that mortgage advice is done today, people choose brokers by default.
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And I think that we're going to see that habit change.
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And I think you're going to see a lot of competition coming in from places that you don't see today where they're going to get serious.
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And AI basically gives them the ability to put an advisor in people's pocket.
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And competing with that, if you're a bread and butter advisor by today's standards, is going to be extraordinarily difficult.
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So I think what we're going to see is a quite dramatic consolidation over the next few years.
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And we're going to see the sort of fatty middle of the market basically get competed away.
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And then you're going to see either end, the winners are going to thrive.
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And what I mean by either end is, you know, Walmart style, digitally native transactional mortgage businesses at one end that are operating at a scale that we've probably not observed yet.
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And at the other end.
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I call it boutique advice, but still done at a very admirable scale.
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And those boutique advisors will probably be some of the biggest advisors, you know, by today's standards that we've seen as well.
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But that soft middle is an easy target for AI native firms to come in and disrupt this space.
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And I think that's what we're going to see.
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I like that.
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I've never heard it put like that into sort of three buckets, three sort of camps.
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But I think my view on it, an overview on it is if you're transactional as in just doing a residential vanilla case mortgage, that yeah, I can do that now, right?
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And I think if you are just looking at it as a one transaction, a one hit one die, you do the deal, no protection, nothing creative or special, no relationship building, you're not,
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ultimately you're on by time right that's my view of it how and and i advise the way to combat or protect yourself against that from an advisor's perspective is specialist finance you're bridging you're quirky commercial all of that i think certainly more protected that's your boutique stuff that you're talking about right and
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It's more protected than that residential vanilla basic case stuff for sure.
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Same with protection.
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I think he's in the name.
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Protection is protected, in my opinion.
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Maybe I'm biased because I love protection.
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But if I was to put a bet on it, that's what I would predict would happen.
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I agree with the, there'll be huge winners.
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There'll be some that, the big players in the market now, right?
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We don't need to mention names.
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The firms have got hundreds and hundreds of advisors now, right?
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they could probably quite easily cut costs, integrate technology, ramp up marketing, and take a bigger market share.
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I can foresee that happening, I agree with that one.
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Yeah.
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And the boutique thing, yeah, again, the high net worth individual clients, I think, maybe currently they wouldn't be too comfortable taking robo-advice or doing it all online.
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However, we both got children,
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would our children be more comfortable when they're 20, 25, whatever, they're gonna grow up in a world where AI is everywhere and they're not gonna know any different, right?
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So I think them, the new generation, maybe it's a couple of generations into the future, they're not gonna know any different.
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So then even the boutique, the high net worth individual specialist clients, I think they will go to AI eventually.
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Perhaps.
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I think to pull out something you mentioned there, you assimilated boutique with high net worth.
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And I think that's been the limitation until now.
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Part of it, but yeah.
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Yeah, I think that's been the limitation until now.
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And if you think about this in any industry, right?
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The, you know, very white glove service, the very personal touch has been reserved for, you know, the very top end of the market that can afford to pay for it and value it.
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The reality is we would all value a nice personal touch.
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The question is, will we pay for it?
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I think what AI introduces is an era where that high touch, high volume service is possible and it doesn't need to be subsidized with extortionate fees.
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Right.
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And I think that that's an interesting leveling of the playing field.
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And if I think about my view of the future and these kind of two polar ends of the market, you know, the Walmart, high volume mortgage factory, very transactional, just churning through things, getting lots of business done, probably not writing a lot of protection, probably not providing the most white glove service, but something that is convenient, fast, very satisfactory.
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There's still demand for that, isn't there?
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There's a lot of demand for that.
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You know, people want quick three-click mortgages.
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Now, if you're a broker, you're necessarily, you're by definition adding a step to the process.
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And so you can't compete on convenience.
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So what do you compete on?
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You have to compete on something much more value additive.
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And it could be lots of things.
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It could be holistic advice.
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It could be adding protection to the mix.
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It could be expanding that field of view for the customer.
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It could be the ongoing nature and just, you know, giving them comfort that you're going to help them navigate complexity when it arrives and you're going to be in their corner.
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You're going to be monitoring.
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It could be that sometimes people just like to pick up the phone and be able to speak to someone.
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And you can now, if you're a broker, thinking about which way to go.
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you can realistically provide all of that at a scale that's probably bigger than the transactional business that you're running around trying to sustain today.
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And you can probably do that without charging high net worth fees.
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Fees, yeah.
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That's really exciting.
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Agreed.
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That's a very exciting way for the market to go.
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Agreed.
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I think, back to your question, is AI going to replace anybody?
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If you're in that kind of fatty middle no man's land where you're not competing on convenience, you're not providing an excellent service and
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you're living hand to mouth trying to find the next transaction.
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Everything now is converging and it's converging against you.
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If you were, I know this is the magic question that everybody asks in these type AI led podcasts, timescales, like what's your viewpoint of, or what's your view on timescales?
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So if you were a better man, for that fatty middle to be substantially affected, severely affected, how long?
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Would you say it's happening now?
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It's happening quietly.
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Until it's really, really affecting the middle, would you say?
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So let me explain.
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So if you're a broker whose customers perceive that the service you provide is finding the best rates and the best deals, Mm-hmm.
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if that's your business, that's going to be replaced, I would say, you know, in very short order.
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Think about it in mortgage renewal cycles, right?
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If you've got a customer back book and those customers' deals are ending and the plan is to put them on another two-year fix, you've got less than two years.
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Right.
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Because you're going to get one remote.
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I think your next interaction with your customer is your last chance to retain that customer in a post AI world.
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And their experience is going to be what they remember the next time they come to renew.
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And the world has moved on and everything they do is digital.
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Everything they do is AI assisted from, you know, recipes to holiday planning to choosing a car.
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Oh, my mortgage renewal is due.
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My lender's messaging me because, trust me, they're about to step out of the direct.
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Absolutely.
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And they're going to remember the experience they had with the broker last time.
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And this is the last chance.
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If you make a really good impression, if you...
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leave that customer with the impression that they're in safe hands, they're going to be looked after, it's still going to be convenient, but it's going to be something that's worth them investing their time in speaking to you again, then you're laying the groundwork for a very healthy, prosperous, long-term relationship with that customer.
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If it's anything other than optimal at the next point,
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then it makes things very difficult from there.
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You then have to win new customers and impress upon them something different and change the DNA of your business.
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But you're starting from a position of famine.
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And so that's gonna be an interesting thing.
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So then it's a question of, look at your back book, work out when these reversionary periods are, and then plot what you're gonna do within that period to have the maximum effect for the long term.
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So not to swerve the question, but I think the answer actually is it plays out very differently in different businesses.
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But it's going to be fast and it's already started happening.
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But I love the way you just positioned it there because a lot of people, I watch a lot of podcasts and read a lot of articles.
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People always talk about this timeline.
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Some typically like the 24 months, a lot of people said 2027.
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Now some people are saying 2030.
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But actually in mortgage world, let's look at, you maybe is getting one more transaction off them.
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Yeah.
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That is a really good way to think about it.
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Then right, well, your mortgage back book, if you've got loads of renewals in 2027 or whenever it may be, depending upon when you listen to this,
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Think about that next transaction that you've got that you're going to do with that client.
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You need to be a salesperson at this point.
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You need to be outlining the future, building that relationship, using tech, doing and showing something different that you are worth coming back to.
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And they shouldn't just go to the AI Walmart factory down the street that's going to be all over the TV and wherever else soon.
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that'll probably be fee free and it'll be convenient so i think to close off that point i think you position it really well as you've got one more transaction yeah potentially i think you have and be prepared to fight for your life in that transaction because others are going to start you know coming quite soon love it love it so next question
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Is the traditional mortgage CRM already dead?
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And most firms just haven't realized it yet.
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What's your viewpoint on CRM's being dead or traditional CRM's being dead?
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Yeah, I think the mortgage broker CRM experience is quite unique.
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I mean, when, I mean, I've worked in dozens of different businesses and industries and
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When I think about CRM, I think about something very different to what mortgage brokers are doing and using.
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So if we frame it in the context of a mortgage broker to begin with, I think the day that the CRM started being able to feed itself with the data that it needs to serve as a complete system of record for your business, become a platform through which you can communicate with your customers,
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and renewal dates were planned in advance.
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The day that it started to update itself with all of that information, the traditional CRMs that don't do that died.
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It makes no sense.
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Quick break to tell you something really important before we go back to the episode.
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Now back to the episode.
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It makes no sense, given everything we've just discussed about, you know, increasing competition and the importance of valuing service and sales.
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If you're going to compete in a post-AI world, it makes no sense that these mortgage brokers and administrators are going to spend money.
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almost the majority of their week, feeding a machine data so that they can maintain a system of record.
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They can say that there's value in their back book.
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They can plan for the future.
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I think CRMs in this industry died when...
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the CRM became self-maintaining.
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And that's what we built first at Jamjar.
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That was the problem that we concentrated on obsessively was my lived experience of being a broker was that, I just wanted my guys speaking to customers doing sales.
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And they were blocking out time in their diaries for admin and research.
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I mean, it's crazy.
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It drove me potty.
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So we built a system that went some way towards eliminating that and it was transformative.
214
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That was before AI.
215
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The Jamjar experience that we've lived so far has been to concentrate on that problem, but leverage the new techniques and the new tools to make the CRM maintain itself.
216
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So if brokers are speaking to customers, if they're reading emails, if documents are coming across their desk...
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the CRM isn't something they open up and then say, right, now I'm going to spend the next 30 minutes typing all of what I know about this customer into the database.
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It pops up and says, I already know all of this.
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And so here's your next few steps.
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And here's some cute tips about how to progress this deal.
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And so if the platform that brokers are using isn't doing that, then it's toast.
222
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Mm-hmm.
223
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Yeah, I agree.
224
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And I think it's always baffled my head that there's so much repetition of data and repetition of keying the same things into one CRM and then the network CRM and then the application and then you've got to do these letters and it just doesn't make any logical sense given what AI can do for people to be doing that much repetition and paying salaries to do that much repetition.
225
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You know, me and Carl went on for dinner last night and I spoke to Carl about this.
226
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It's funny that almost everybody in this entire industry, being in mind, there's 2,300 in the Wealthy Advisor Club.
227
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I speak to a lot of firms and advisors.
228
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Almost everybody says to me that they're too busy.
229
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But if everybody's too busy, why is the huge differences in volumes of business that the individuals and firms are doing?
230
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But they're all saying that they're too busy.
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It's because they are busy doing things like admin that they could be avoiding, paying someone else to do, using technology to do.
232
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It's a bit mad that wasn't how everybody's too busy.
233
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It's right.
234
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And it's implicit.
235
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When they say they're too busy, what they're trying to say is they're too busy to do the things they want to do.
236
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overworked doing low value tasks.
237
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Yeah.
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And, you know, who became a mortgage broker because they wanted to spend their days filling out forms and copying and pasting information?
239
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Nobody.
240
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And it's one of my responses when people say, you know, should I be worried that AI is going to replace my job?
241
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And I say, well, no, because...
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most of the job sucks.
243
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So let it replace the bits of the job that suck.
244
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That you don't like.
245
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So you can do all of the stuff that you're too busy to do.
246
00:18:10.868 --> 00:18:18.251
And I think back to the question, you know, if someone's sitting there looking at their CRM and going, what should I do about this?
247
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And it's also the type of person that will, you know, say that they're too busy.
248
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I think the question about what to do next is not switch CRM.
249
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It's, you know, what would I do other than CRM?
250
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And the most progressive brokers are already really engaging with that.
251
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And, you know, the ones that are using Jamjar are feeding back to us and we're continually learning and continually improving.
252
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But it's a culture shift.
253
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It's a mindset shift.
254
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It's going to transform the shape and size of your business and
255
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you know, that's not something that I think CRMs are going to deliver.
256
00:18:57.054 --> 00:18:57.554
Yeah, I agree.
257
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I'll say to people that ultimately, if you simplify this industry and this job, there's only really two things that we should be doing as advisors.
258
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And neither of the two is admin, by the way, but it's finding clients, ultimately prospecting and selling to those clients.
259
00:19:13.921 --> 00:19:19.103
So if you're not on appointments with clients, advising them, then it's finding clients.
260
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It should just be one of those two things.
261
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So if you're not on appointments, you're finding people.
262
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If you're not finding people, you're on appointments.
263
00:19:24.985 --> 00:19:33.934
At no point should there be any form of admin, in my opinion, for high-performance salespeople, high-performance business leaders, founders, we should not be doing low-value tasks.
264
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No disrespect to any administrators, but it is a lower-value task.
265
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The hourly rate is less than ours.
266
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There's the business leaders and the salespeople.
267
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So if we can just concentrate on those two things...
268
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You're fundamentally gonna generate more leads, make more sales, grow your company.
269
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Yeah.
270
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But in order to do that, we've got to delegate to people or to tech.
271
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Yes.
272
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We have to.
273
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There's no two ways about it.
274
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And that's where obviously people like yourself come in, right?
275
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That's completely right.
276
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And then on the displacement question about people in those admin roles, then there's a choice to make about, do we just carry fewer of those people?
277
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Because they are a weight to bear in the new world.
278
00:20:12.822 --> 00:20:13.802
Salary-wise, for sure.
279
00:20:13.822 --> 00:20:25.932
Do we then refocus those people on doing something new that we don't do at the moment, this value additive that takes us down to that boutique end of the spectrum, still concentrate on scale?
280
00:20:26.913 --> 00:20:39.143
And if you're a firm principal and day-to-day your main priority isn't being on the front line giving the advice, it's working on the business, not in the business, those people are too busy.
281
00:20:40.044 --> 00:20:47.610
And if they can unencumber themselves of all of these admin tasks and trivial things that eat up their time...
282
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then they can think about the business differently and they can start to conceive of new ways to add value.
283
00:20:53.753 --> 00:21:07.479
And this is where we'll see greater differentiation among the businesses because they've got the time and the headspace and the capital to invest in something that's uniquely part of their brand, part of their value proposition.
284
00:21:07.919 --> 00:21:09.540
And then they're going to need to lean into those things.
285
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:16.503
I think the principles of these firms are also among the groups of people that will say they're too busy.
286
00:21:17.263 --> 00:21:18.564
There's things they'd like to be doing.
287
00:21:18.905 --> 00:21:21.447
And, you know, they're not on the front line giving advice all of the time.
288
00:21:22.108 --> 00:21:28.374
So they live with different, you know, daily tasks and that kind of mundane, repetitive motion.
289
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It might be compliance.
290
00:21:29.415 --> 00:21:31.297
It might be, you know, you run a business.
291
00:21:31.337 --> 00:21:34.099
You know that there's things that you'd love to delegate to somebody else.
292
00:21:34.940 --> 00:21:41.487
And now the opportunity to delegate some of those tasks to AI is going to create more space for them to think about their business.
293
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And in doing that, I really always encourage firm principals to think beyond the mortgage transaction, think about how they can do more protection.
294
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You know, that's an obvious one.
295
00:21:51.612 --> 00:21:56.335
But also think about the business as a system, think about continually improving it and investing in it.
296
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And it will get, you know, much, much more efficient if you can do that.
297
00:22:00.357 --> 00:22:10.323
And then, as I mentioned, the sort of the polarization of the market that we're going to see with these boutique firms doing, you know, boutique service at scale and these products.
298
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you know, Walmart, mortgage factories, think about the boutique business you want to build and how to scale it and what services it provides.
299
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And that's a very different way of thinking when you just have the headspace.
300
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You can do an awful lot.
301
00:22:24.563 --> 00:22:25.645
And actually, I think that...
302
00:22:26.546 --> 00:22:41.552
In the transaction, a property purchase or a portfolio for a landlord, in those transactions, the broker today has an opportunity to be the trusted advisor who's got a full 180 degree field of view of everything that customer is doing.
303
00:22:42.512 --> 00:22:53.656
And, you know, do they want to extend that service into things that traditionally might have felt that they were more at home in a home buying or an estate agent service or in a holistic financial planner?
304
00:22:54.136 --> 00:23:03.760
This is the sort of stuff that firm principals can concentrate on if they're not, you know, just showing up to work on a Monday morning and going through 60 emails, you know?
305
00:23:04.206 --> 00:23:05.146
I think it's a really good point.
306
00:23:05.186 --> 00:23:10.248
And some people might be thinking, right, well, if I can save that 10, 20 hours a week, I want to go and play golf.
307
00:23:10.268 --> 00:23:16.069
And obviously, whatever they want to do, ultimately, with that additional time that they're going to gain by delegating the tasks is fine.
308
00:23:16.089 --> 00:23:23.752
But I think in times of so much change and disruption, if it was me, I would absolutely be focusing that on.
309
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How can I become more efficient, improve the customer journey?
310
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And a huge thing.
311
00:23:28.653 --> 00:23:46.993
marketing because ultimately it doesn't matter how good your CRM is it doesn't matter how good your tech is how good your customer journey or anything is if you've got nobody going through the funnel if you've got no clients to give advice to it doesn't matter how good you're not making any sales it's it's irrelevant how good that that post sort of sale or during sale process looks like right
312
00:23:47.533 --> 00:23:47.994
That's right.
313
00:23:48.034 --> 00:24:01.547
And in terms of, you know, top of funnel growth, technology has been around for a long time that allows you to do things at scale that, you know, compound and amount to fast moving, productive sales funnels.
314
00:24:02.548 --> 00:24:09.674
What I don't see, and I see a lot of that in the mortgage industry already, you know, not everyone's doing it, but those that are practicing that are doing a pretty good job.
315
00:24:10.655 --> 00:24:20.243
What I don't see is a lot of differentiation at that sort of fundamental value proposition, or brand, or story, or personality level.
316
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100%.
317
00:24:21.223 --> 00:24:25.487
And that's the sort of stuff that firm principles can probably lean into and creates unique value.
318
00:24:26.228 --> 00:24:29.030
That's a drum I've been banging for ages, which is personal brand.
319
00:24:29.050 --> 00:24:31.232
And yes, I know loads of people don't like social media,
320
00:24:32.072 --> 00:24:35.035
Being honest, if I didn't use it for business, I absolutely would not be on it.
321
00:24:35.055 --> 00:24:35.876
I would delete the thing.
322
00:24:36.577 --> 00:24:39.300
But fundamentally, it works if people buy people.
323
00:24:39.780 --> 00:24:45.806
And if you are more visible online, it's arguably one of the cheapest ways to get yourself out there.
324
00:24:46.327 --> 00:24:47.869
Organic socials is obviously free.
325
00:24:47.889 --> 00:24:51.572
It just costs you a bit of time and you can hit a hell of a lot of people with some content.
326
00:24:51.612 --> 00:24:54.676
And people will buy into you if you are more visible online.
327
00:24:55.276 --> 00:24:56.597
If you put in the reps, they will.
328
00:24:57.177 --> 00:25:06.703
And I think, you know, I mentioned earlier that the way the industry is, the way the market is kind of set up at the moment, at the moment it favors the broker, right?
329
00:25:06.723 --> 00:25:08.824
The default choice is broker.
330
00:25:09.604 --> 00:25:10.985
And we're seeing that change now.
331
00:25:11.466 --> 00:25:19.230
And so if the broker isn't the default choice, they have to be chosen because of something about them, the value, the story, the fact that they're everywhere.
332
00:25:19.890 --> 00:25:22.432
And that's going to be something that brokers need to work on.
333
00:25:23.413 --> 00:25:23.753
For sure.
334
00:25:24.093 --> 00:25:24.354
Agreed.
335
00:25:25.154 --> 00:25:25.415
Agreed.
336
00:25:27.096 --> 00:25:38.307
So in your opinion, could one broker using the right AI system typically outperform a team of, let's say, five traditional advisors in your opinion?
337
00:25:39.074 --> 00:25:39.294
Yes.
338
00:25:40.014 --> 00:25:42.935
And it's why in admin terms, it's not even close.
339
00:25:43.516 --> 00:25:43.716
Right.
340
00:25:43.756 --> 00:25:47.277
We just talked about the fact that traditionally advisors are spending a lot of time doing admin.
341
00:25:48.338 --> 00:25:57.621
And so one broker with the right tools that is basically systematically outsourcing that admin work to an intelligent person.
342
00:25:58.359 --> 00:26:04.065
tech is going to outperform the other five brokers because they're just going to be completely unencumbered.
343
00:26:04.805 --> 00:26:09.911
And that is going to create time and space for them to do the other things more.
344
00:26:10.091 --> 00:26:18.799
They're going to over-index on personal touch, spend time with the complex issues, make sure customers have understood and that the message has landed.
345
00:26:18.819 --> 00:26:18.919
Yeah.
346
00:26:19.660 --> 00:26:25.364
In complex cases, they're going to have more time to work with lenders to collaborate and make deals happen.
347
00:26:25.985 --> 00:26:33.310
You know, the other five, they're not going to be able to get close to that if they still carry the weight of all of the traditional admin.
348
00:26:33.350 --> 00:26:34.011
Do the same old.
349
00:26:34.391 --> 00:26:37.994
And like I've heard numbers like eight or ten hours.
350
00:26:38.794 --> 00:26:41.456
it takes in from an admin perspective to complete a mortgage.
351
00:26:41.476 --> 00:26:48.262
That's all of the key, and it's the applications, it's the chasing with the estate agent or the solicitors or the banks or whatever.
352
00:26:48.482 --> 00:26:49.903
I've heard these numbers banded around.
353
00:26:50.643 --> 00:26:59.971
Have you got any sort of data on numbers or sort of figures that you work from, like how long does, the traditional way I'm talking about here, how long is that process on average?
354
00:27:00.651 --> 00:27:01.911
Would you sort of say?
355
00:27:01.931 --> 00:27:04.092
So we look at it through two dimensions.
356
00:27:04.492 --> 00:27:04.832
Okay.
357
00:27:04.872 --> 00:27:08.153
So we look at the time spent at the desk, right?
358
00:27:08.213 --> 00:27:09.734
Which is the admin time.
359
00:27:10.194 --> 00:27:11.014
Not the salesperson.
360
00:27:11.034 --> 00:27:13.155
This is, well, this is whoever's doing the admin is this.
361
00:27:13.215 --> 00:27:15.415
Every business is kind of set up differently for this.
362
00:27:15.555 --> 00:27:21.317
You know, I was speaking to one business today where, you know, the, the, the mortgage customer passes through.
363
00:27:21.817 --> 00:27:24.999
three sets of hands very early on in the process.
364
00:27:25.499 --> 00:27:33.024
They have an appointment caller who does the job of, tell me about your mortgage, tell me about your income, tell me about your family.
365
00:27:33.404 --> 00:27:36.025
They do that fact find, they put everything into a system.
366
00:27:36.066 --> 00:27:36.826
Bit of a screen in.
367
00:27:37.166 --> 00:27:39.327
That amounts to about 45 minutes in this business.
368
00:27:39.807 --> 00:27:45.889
Then an advisor has to review that, decide what's next, request documents.
369
00:27:46.709 --> 00:27:51.010
Then an admin person has to then chase those documents, get them in, make sure that the file is complete.
370
00:27:51.030 --> 00:27:52.331
And then it goes back to an advisor.
371
00:27:52.351 --> 00:27:54.872
And then the advisor spends about 45 minutes to an hour.
372
00:27:55.932 --> 00:28:00.835
looking at those documents, ratifying the information on the screen, and then engaging with the customer.
373
00:28:01.256 --> 00:28:02.416
So that's just one example.
374
00:28:02.616 --> 00:28:06.179
In other businesses, you know, it's a mortgage broker that runs that process end to end.
375
00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:08.620
And they're trying to do it across a dozen cases at once.
376
00:28:08.921 --> 00:28:11.262
And it's a lot less predictable.
377
00:28:11.322 --> 00:28:12.243
It's less of a drumbeat.
378
00:28:12.363 --> 00:28:14.344
It's just, you know, what have I got time to do what's coming in?
379
00:28:14.364 --> 00:28:15.325
And they're much more reactive.
380
00:28:15.885 --> 00:28:18.647
So we look at this through two lenses.
381
00:28:18.767 --> 00:28:21.049
One is the time spent at the desk, whoever's doing it.
382
00:28:21.109 --> 00:28:29.915
And that amounts to, you know, if you could hit a stopwatch and, you know, count the time spent on admin and then do that for every step in the process.
383
00:28:30.436 --> 00:28:34.358
Typically, that amounts to about 15 hours a week per person.
384
00:28:34.859 --> 00:28:35.159
Okay.
385
00:28:35.679 --> 00:28:39.242
And, you know, we see more and less than that depending on the business.
386
00:28:40.523 --> 00:28:54.791
What's really interesting is the other lens that we look at this through, which is from the customer's perspective, how much time elapses between contacts from the broker and how much time are they waiting to get the advice to progress to the next stage?
387
00:28:55.592 --> 00:28:59.014
And, you know, we saw a case with Jamjar user where...
388
00:28:59.474 --> 00:29:09.603
when you looked at the time from when the first fact find conversation happened to when the mortgage application was ultimately packaged and submitted to the lender, was 31 days.
389
00:29:10.284 --> 00:29:10.965
Was it, yeah.
390
00:29:11.045 --> 00:29:12.246
31 days on average, right?
391
00:29:12.446 --> 00:29:14.388
I mean, from a customer journey perspective, that's tough.
392
00:29:14.528 --> 00:29:15.209
It's very frustrating.
393
00:29:15.229 --> 00:29:16.189
We've all heard stories like this.
394
00:29:16.209 --> 00:29:16.370
Yeah.
395
00:29:16.550 --> 00:29:22.715
You know, the first call, you know, leads to an appointment in person in the next town over seven days later.
396
00:29:22.776 --> 00:29:23.897
This is not uncommon.
397
00:29:24.757 --> 00:29:35.985
But from a customer experience perspective, when you think about more convenient options, 31 days, I mean, two weeks would be an absurd amount of time to wait to get a mortgage application done.
398
00:29:36.065 --> 00:29:40.128
And now we're seeing rates changing in those time horizons as well, which amounts to more adverse.
399
00:29:40.148 --> 00:29:41.989
There's this kind of doom loop you get into.
400
00:29:42.490 --> 00:29:50.195
But with AI and specifically with Jamjar, what we observed after watching this for a period of months was that on average,
401
00:29:51.136 --> 00:29:57.540
that time from the initial fact find to the mortgage application being submitted came down to less than five days on average.
402
00:29:57.620 --> 00:29:59.582
So from 31 to less than five.
403
00:29:59.602 --> 00:30:02.784
When you compound that over months and years in a team, I mean.
404
00:30:02.844 --> 00:30:06.707
And that amounts to an experience that is competitive in a post-AI world.
405
00:30:06.967 --> 00:30:08.748
So we kind of observed those two things.
406
00:30:08.969 --> 00:30:17.675
15 hours per person spent at a desk doing dumb, like sucky work and a customer experience that doesn't compete with what's coming next.
407
00:30:19.626 --> 00:30:38.700
yeah the reason i was asking that question is just it however you look at it and every every business is set up differently you're completely right whichever way you look at it whichever way you set up it is a lot yeah any way you look at it is a lot and that's why i think it's it's just primed for disruption and if we can use this new technology
408
00:30:39.560 --> 00:30:45.643
to save ourselves time that is literally no negatives at all from doing this?
409
00:30:46.304 --> 00:30:50.006
None that you can easily understand today.
410
00:30:50.146 --> 00:30:55.469
I think the watch out, as I think about it out loud, would be...
411
00:30:56.209 --> 00:31:17.734
You know, remembering what I said about the soft middle is if the broker whose customers perceive that all they do is find them the best rate, if that broker thinks that salvation comes from just automating their back office processes and that that's going to mean that their business is going to thrive in the long term,
412
00:31:18.534 --> 00:31:24.460
You know, they'll give themselves a big pat on the back and then in 12 months time, they'll be standing in an empty room looking around and what happened?
413
00:31:24.781 --> 00:31:40.396
And what happened was they didn't grasp the nettle and seize the opportunity to either decide to be a very productive, high volume transactional mortgage factory or to go the other way and think about, you know, what they do in the space that all of that time saved creates.
414
00:31:40.877 --> 00:31:41.978
And completely agree.
415
00:31:42.338 --> 00:31:46.021
And, you know, they went and spent it at the golf course and didn't invest in their business.
416
00:31:46.041 --> 00:31:49.284
You know, that will only last one more reversion cycle.
417
00:31:50.125 --> 00:31:50.465
Agreed.
418
00:31:51.085 --> 00:31:54.628
And ultimately, you know, you need to be a salesperson.
419
00:31:54.648 --> 00:32:03.536
Like, to build a relationship with a client, to make it not the opposite of what we've just talked about, to make it non-transactional, you have to be, you have to have a personality.
420
00:32:03.556 --> 00:32:06.938
You've got to make them like you, know, like, and trust you, and build a relationship.
421
00:32:06.958 --> 00:32:10.041
And they've got to believe in your credibility and your authority and your...
422
00:32:10.421 --> 00:32:33.207
ability to help them over the long term and they've got to want to work with you that's right not just even now all this i've walked away from sales people in different industries before when i didn't like the person even if they could solve the problem or deliver on the product because people buy people and you do that silently yeah as well well but car sales people double glazing ppi does of course everyone's heard them stories right it's
423
00:32:34.068 --> 00:32:35.269
And people will do it silently.
424
00:32:35.409 --> 00:32:38.794
And then those non-sales people will sit there wondering what happened.
425
00:32:39.214 --> 00:32:39.515
Yeah.
426
00:32:39.655 --> 00:32:41.077
And it's poetic.
427
00:32:41.337 --> 00:32:47.566
Because I think one thing that maybe is one trail of thought here was if we go to AI, Yeah.
428
00:32:48.552 --> 00:32:52.995
in we're going to transactional to techie and we lose that personal touch.
429
00:32:53.495 --> 00:32:59.239
Maybe it's for the Walmart that you mentioned that the mortgage factories that are doing massive scale and they've got humongous back books.
430
00:32:59.259 --> 00:33:07.604
They can afford to do that, but the smaller or younger or less mature firms, if they try and go to AI, they could potentially
431
00:33:08.444 --> 00:33:24.876
lose it right there's got to be elements of tech and yeah exactly and i think that's just an important point that we've got to remember that yes we need to would in my opinion and i think yours as well is we need to use the tech to stay ahead or stay relevant and that's not even a question yeah for sure whether we like it or not whether we believe or not whether we
432
00:33:25.836 --> 00:33:27.957
you know, are good with technology or not, it's here.
433
00:33:28.317 --> 00:33:29.158
I completely agree.
434
00:33:29.438 --> 00:33:39.103
But also I think we've got to remember the people skills that got us here in the first place that we cannot overlook and sleep on because people buy people regardless of the tech.
435
00:33:39.123 --> 00:33:44.606
And that's certainly true of the ones that don't choose three-click digital convenience.
436
00:33:45.046 --> 00:33:46.067
They want something else.
437
00:33:46.267 --> 00:33:48.408
And what they're saying is, I want a personal touch.
438
00:33:48.428 --> 00:33:49.248
I want an advisor.
439
00:33:49.268 --> 00:33:50.209
I want a relationship.
440
00:33:50.729 --> 00:33:56.722
And that is the bit that mustn't be replaced with AI if you're building a high-scale boutique business.
441
00:33:56.782 --> 00:34:01.432
That's the bit that you do and lean into it and do lots of it and get better at it.
442
00:34:02.978 --> 00:34:03.778
Stop what you're doing.
443
00:34:03.818 --> 00:34:07.360
Now, I know I've got sunglasses on inside, but I've got your attention.
444
00:34:07.520 --> 00:34:10.301
There's a book on Amazon called the Life Insurance Playbook.
445
00:34:10.341 --> 00:34:21.286
Now, this is 17 years worth of building brokerages in the UK, generating over £10 million in insurance commissions, selling life insurance, critical illness, income protection, general protection products.
446
00:34:21.546 --> 00:34:28.710
This has got the scripts, the templates, the processes, objection handling techniques, follow-up techniques, sales process, closing techniques.
447
00:34:29.270 --> 00:34:31.011
In this book, it's £14.99 on Amazon.
448
00:34:32.183 --> 00:34:34.986
This is great information, but this...
449
00:34:35.854 --> 00:34:37.074
is great implementation.
450
00:34:37.354 --> 00:34:42.856
There's also on Amazon, for 14.99 as well, the 90 day performance planner.
451
00:34:43.256 --> 00:34:48.518
What this does, this helps any salesperson to track your performance over a 90 day period.
452
00:34:49.038 --> 00:34:53.300
Because if you don't measure things, you don't know what to improve upon, yeah?
453
00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:59.001
And you've gotta know your metrics being a high performance salesperson, because it's really important to measure everything in sales.
454
00:34:59.261 --> 00:35:04.103
And that's why I released this, the 90 day performance planner, and these two go together
455
00:35:05.149 --> 00:35:08.950
Like, I don't know, peanut butter and jelly, is that a good combo?
456
00:35:10.011 --> 00:35:15.272
Whatever's a good combo, steak and chips, whatever's a good combo, these two go together like that.
457
00:35:15.672 --> 00:35:17.933
Great information and great implementation.
458
00:35:18.593 --> 00:35:23.055
Click the link, they're on Amazon, go and get them, it will change your business and your career.
459
00:35:24.471 --> 00:35:24.731
Great.
460
00:35:25.011 --> 00:35:32.854
And kind of linking to that question, we've talked about like the time saving element, 15 hours, eight, 10 hours, loads of different numbers, of course, depend upon how the firm is set up.
461
00:35:33.414 --> 00:35:40.257
But from a financial standpoint, like how much are firms losing by not doing this almost?
462
00:35:40.277 --> 00:35:43.658
Like have you got any stats or viewpoints on monetary figures?
463
00:35:45.750 --> 00:35:50.676
Without getting into the figures, I think the answer is that they're losing more than I think they would believe.
464
00:35:51.577 --> 00:35:53.459
And it's happening silently.
465
00:35:53.600 --> 00:36:01.328
So your example of the salesperson that wasn't all that, that lost the sale, that happened silently.
466
00:36:01.349 --> 00:36:01.569
Yeah.
467
00:36:01.889 --> 00:36:02.069
Yeah.
468
00:36:02.649 --> 00:36:10.574
The database of renewals that's patchy at best, that's actually not adding value.
469
00:36:10.614 --> 00:36:14.796
It's not the rich seam of customer data you think it is.
470
00:36:14.816 --> 00:36:15.936
It's just a leaky bucket.
471
00:36:16.857 --> 00:36:18.318
And that might be your back book.
472
00:36:18.358 --> 00:36:19.538
It might be your sales funnel.
473
00:36:19.979 --> 00:36:22.620
All of these things are costing businesses a lot of money.
474
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:26.002
But the reality is it's probably been that way for a very long time.
475
00:36:26.662 --> 00:36:28.683
And so they don't necessarily perceive the loss.
476
00:36:29.743 --> 00:36:38.886
Brokers that we talk to sometimes will obsess about lead generation and wanting to get new leads and more leads and new partnerships.
477
00:36:38.986 --> 00:36:41.787
And then they work out that all leads are not equal.
478
00:36:42.027 --> 00:36:47.148
And it becomes this kind of obsessive focus that doesn't always amount to a much more valuable business.
479
00:36:48.168 --> 00:36:52.390
The ones that are really working and investing in and living off
480
00:36:53.290 --> 00:37:08.536
a back book of happy customers about whom they know a lot and can then automate a lot of that follow up to create those moments where they can then step in and provide a personal touch and add value are making exponentially more money than the other.
481
00:37:09.317 --> 00:37:20.181
So it's difficult for firms to put a number on how much they're losing because they can't look back on a time when they were drastically better and say, well, you know, X to Y is minus 100,000 pounds a year.
482
00:37:22.142 --> 00:37:28.824
Equally, it's difficult for them to draw comparisons with businesses that are making an awful lot more money out of their back book because it's unseen work.
483
00:37:29.444 --> 00:37:33.105
And they start wracking their brains about what are they doing in the marketing perspective that I'm not.
484
00:37:33.925 --> 00:37:39.426
So I think the answer is that they're losing an awful lot more money than they would believe.
485
00:37:39.846 --> 00:37:46.648
If you wanted me to give you the tools to actually quantify it, some of the things I would say is,
486
00:37:47.908 --> 00:37:58.352
What would you have to believe your brokers are gonna be able to do when they're more productive because they're unencumbered by admin in order for that to amount to a step function improvement in the bottom line of your business?
487
00:37:58.972 --> 00:38:09.956
What if those brokers just did 20 more deals per quarter and had a 50% increase in their protection sell through?
488
00:38:10.816 --> 00:38:11.536
What would that amount to?
489
00:38:11.556 --> 00:38:13.157
That was huge in most firms, huge.
490
00:38:13.377 --> 00:38:16.598
It's absolutely transformative, but it's not such a leap
491
00:38:17.418 --> 00:38:29.048
In terms of, you know, a leap of faith to believe that they could do that, either because they get better at optimizing the process for the leads that you're spending money on, or because they're just working that back book better and it's not a leaky bucket.
492
00:38:29.348 --> 00:38:33.872
But that's the order of magnitude, I think is very, very achievable for your average firm.
493
00:38:34.292 --> 00:38:36.574
And then there will be outliers that go on and dwarf that.
494
00:38:37.681 --> 00:38:51.354
I think the back book's an interesting point because I think I spoke about this on a previous podcast, which was we have a habit in this industry of always looking forward, next lead, next client, next introducer, next social media post, next, next, next.
495
00:38:51.394 --> 00:38:52.515
And we're always looking forward.
496
00:38:52.535 --> 00:38:55.418
And of course, it's important to do that from a lead gen perspective.
497
00:38:55.938 --> 00:38:59.379
But sometimes looking sideways and backwards, they've got gold sitting there.
498
00:38:59.919 --> 00:39:03.699
And they've done the hard work acquiring the client in the first place.
499
00:39:03.739 --> 00:39:07.100
Sometimes there's been a cost of acquisition if they've done paid ads or introduced ads.
500
00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:10.401
So it's quicker and easier and cheaper to sell to these lot.
501
00:39:11.081 --> 00:39:15.962
But we're looking over there and tech can absolutely nurture and help with this, right?
502
00:39:16.002 --> 00:39:22.703
Text messages, emails, touch points, content, like that can absolutely help protect those.
503
00:39:23.343 --> 00:39:28.166
And I don't know why people have this habit of always looking forward and have this kind of shiny penny syndrome.
504
00:39:28.186 --> 00:39:31.007
But I think I think I think it's in our nature.
505
00:39:31.247 --> 00:39:35.230
Yeah, that we look for the next best answer to my problem.
506
00:39:35.270 --> 00:39:37.691
The solution is is in the new thing.
507
00:39:37.811 --> 00:39:37.991
Yeah.
508
00:39:38.091 --> 00:39:41.333
When sometimes it's actually it's a sidestep or it's a back step.
509
00:39:41.373 --> 00:39:42.774
It's not a forward step always.
510
00:39:43.014 --> 00:39:44.214
I think it's in our nature.
511
00:39:44.374 --> 00:39:49.117
And, you know, there's a lot of people out there that will tell you that if you just look at the new shiny thing, everything is going to be great.
512
00:39:49.257 --> 00:39:50.498
And, you know, we like to hear that.
513
00:39:51.638 --> 00:39:58.783
The work of managing and sustaining and yielding value from a back book is hard, sometimes ugly work.
514
00:39:59.683 --> 00:40:07.368
And so if you can cover the blind spot and if you can get that ugly work done at scale while you sleep, then you will have the best of both worlds.
515
00:40:08.388 --> 00:40:31.470
Agreed and I know I'll keep pulling it back to sales but also yes you can you can do a lot through tech but ultimately you've got to be a salesperson when you bring up that existing customer Hi John how are you how's the kids how's the family build the rapport remember stuff about them look for the shortfalls look for the life events and be the person that they perceive to be credible enough to solve their problems on an ongoing basis right
516
00:40:31.610 --> 00:40:44.714
I think what the technology and the data combined allows you to do is to create more of those moments where you then insert yourself into the conversation and you surprise and delight the customer with how much you remember about them from two years ago.
517
00:40:45.654 --> 00:40:49.015
And that's all just a function and a product of the technology and the data.
518
00:40:49.415 --> 00:40:55.957
So you have more of those conversations because they're teed up for you by automations and you know, leveraging the data.
519
00:40:56.777 --> 00:41:03.082
then you don't let the AI overreach and engage the customer in the meaningful conversation.
520
00:41:03.182 --> 00:41:04.403
That's where you play it.
521
00:41:04.423 --> 00:41:04.884
The people come in.
522
00:41:04.984 --> 00:41:07.226
The people come in and they've got to be great salespeople.
523
00:41:07.266 --> 00:41:08.226
They've got to be personable.
524
00:41:08.246 --> 00:41:14.271
They've got to create experiences for their customers that they will remember for two years that will make them want to come back.
525
00:41:15.092 --> 00:41:16.853
And they got to surprise and delight the customer.
526
00:41:17.573 --> 00:41:20.074
And examples of surprise and delight, just a practical example.
527
00:41:20.854 --> 00:41:33.300
I love this feature of Jamjar that a customer helped us work out, which was when the phone rings, flash something up on the screen that tells you before you answer the phone, who's calling.
528
00:41:34.380 --> 00:41:57.998
surfaces insights from their case in terms of recent activity or tasks that need to be completed and we also surface insights that are personal touch prompts about that customer so for instance the phone will ring and it'll say sam is calling sam mentioned on the last call because you asked him the right questions he's a big arsenal fan and he's going to the charity final right so when you
529
00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:00.480
You say, hi, Sam.
530
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:02.141
Good to hear from you.
531
00:42:02.621 --> 00:42:05.264
Thanks for uploading those documents that came through last night.
532
00:42:05.884 --> 00:42:06.424
How's it going?
533
00:42:06.985 --> 00:42:08.246
And you engage Sam in a conversation.
534
00:42:08.326 --> 00:42:11.188
You mention the charity shield final.
535
00:42:11.789 --> 00:42:21.656
And if you think about the customer experience and you think about surprise and delight, and then you think about the ability to do that at scale across a team of people,
536
00:42:22.537 --> 00:42:28.904
How wonderful is that as an experience compared to the alternative, which will be three clicks to a mortgage factory?
537
00:42:29.144 --> 00:42:29.985
People will choose that.
538
00:42:30.766 --> 00:42:33.189
But you've got to show them that that's possible.
539
00:42:33.309 --> 00:42:36.372
And then you've also got to do it at scale because you don't want to run a small business.
540
00:42:37.823 --> 00:42:38.164
I love that.
541
00:42:38.184 --> 00:42:44.008
And that just, that links into sales perfectly because who doesn't want to feel valued or like that you care?
542
00:42:44.108 --> 00:42:46.150
Ultimately, that is part of selling.
543
00:42:46.450 --> 00:42:47.491
You've got to be likable.
544
00:42:47.531 --> 00:42:48.692
You've got to be trustworthy.
545
00:42:48.752 --> 00:42:52.295
And part of that is also having a common ground, remembering things.
546
00:42:52.836 --> 00:42:56.358
I've been in sales environments where I haven't felt valued for sure.
547
00:42:56.398 --> 00:42:58.020
And what's your reaction?
548
00:42:58.040 --> 00:43:04.985
Your reaction is to kind of, you know, when you're speaking to someone and maybe it's the looking past you or the checking the phone or the look, they're not paying attention.
549
00:43:06.327 --> 00:43:07.167
we can sense it, right?
550
00:43:07.187 --> 00:43:08.228
And we'll kind of move away.
551
00:43:08.248 --> 00:43:20.738
And I think what you're doing with Jamjar there is you're, because let's say if someone's doing 20, 30 mortgages a month, they're a decent performer, like, and they're doing that at scale and they haven't spoken to this client for a couple of years, there's no way they would remember that arsenal.
552
00:43:21.018 --> 00:43:25.482
It's almost impossible, even for people who've got memories like Elephant and they've got really good memories.
553
00:43:25.502 --> 00:43:27.203
So it's actually helping with sales, this, right?
554
00:43:27.383 --> 00:43:28.824
It will, and the customer will remember you.
555
00:43:29.165 --> 00:43:31.266
I didn't give, I gave advice last in 2015
556
00:43:33.007 --> 00:43:38.708
And I still have people phone my mobile number and ask me if I'll do their next mortgage.
557
00:43:39.728 --> 00:43:42.209
And I have to explain to them that I don't practice anymore.
558
00:43:42.809 --> 00:43:43.889
And I left that business.
559
00:43:43.949 --> 00:43:47.590
But it's because people remember the way you made them feel.
560
00:43:48.170 --> 00:43:49.150
They won't remember the rate.
561
00:43:49.390 --> 00:43:50.510
They won't remember the fee.
562
00:43:50.550 --> 00:43:51.971
They might not remember the lender.
563
00:43:52.611 --> 00:43:54.231
They'll remember how you made them feel.
564
00:43:54.971 --> 00:43:59.272
And we are trying to create the space and create the moments where you can over-index on that.
565
00:44:00.072 --> 00:44:04.496
And that's about being present, listening, and knowing everything else is taken care of.
566
00:44:04.536 --> 00:44:06.678
And good salespeople will be able to do that.
567
00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:07.919
For sure.
568
00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:10.842
Tech plus training, you've got everything you need, man.
569
00:44:11.022 --> 00:44:11.382
Indeed.
570
00:44:11.643 --> 00:44:12.223
That's for sure.
571
00:44:13.204 --> 00:44:13.404
Cool.
572
00:44:13.424 --> 00:44:13.765
Love this.
573
00:44:13.945 --> 00:44:14.585
Love this topic.
574
00:44:15.306 --> 00:44:18.489
So five years from now, Carl,
575
00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:29.123
What will an AI-powered mortgage and protection firm be able to do that maybe people can't comprehend or don't foresee or maybe thinks impossible right now?
576
00:44:29.343 --> 00:44:30.044
What do you foresee?
577
00:44:31.044 --> 00:44:32.785
I think they'll be able to stop saying I'm too busy.
578
00:44:33.465 --> 00:44:35.346
Hopefully.
579
00:44:35.366 --> 00:44:39.767
And I think they'll be able to do lots of things they can't imagine now.
580
00:44:42.168 --> 00:44:53.851
They'll be able to imagine themselves or see themselves as a very high volume, very, you know, process led systems oriented mortgage factory.
581
00:44:54.451 --> 00:45:00.573
If that's the way that they want to go, they'll be able to engage with an impossible number of customers through digital channels 24 seven.
582
00:45:01.933 --> 00:45:22.710
extract insane amounts of data in real time that all amounts to this kind of compounding virtuous system that is just you know making transactions delightfully simple and that will be the the mortgage factory kind of walmart type business that i described and i think those businesses are going to be mightily impressive
583
00:45:23.690 --> 00:45:38.261
But I think the other thing is that they're going to be able to provide service that they're immensely proud of, that represents who they are at scale that's even bigger than the business that they're trying to grow today when they're stuck in transactions.
584
00:45:39.622 --> 00:45:42.103
And so those are the things that are going to be enabled.
585
00:45:42.584 --> 00:45:47.127
We've actually seen this already in the travel market.
586
00:45:48.202 --> 00:45:54.330
Okay, so if you think about travel agency before booking.com, it was a very different market.
587
00:45:54.670 --> 00:45:58.395
And lots of people were too busy trying to book holidays for families.
588
00:45:59.036 --> 00:46:00.658
I remember walking into the Tui.
589
00:46:00.678 --> 00:46:01.179
It wasn't even Tui.
590
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:02.280
It was Thomas Cook and all that.
591
00:46:02.300 --> 00:46:04.103
I remember walking into the place to book a holiday.
592
00:46:04.123 --> 00:46:04.644
Yeah, crazy.
593
00:46:04.664 --> 00:46:05.304
How do you do that now?
594
00:46:06.488 --> 00:46:08.349
There's actually still some, but there's very few, isn't it?
595
00:46:08.369 --> 00:46:09.650
I mean, I would never personally do it.
596
00:46:10.330 --> 00:46:10.750
You wouldn't.
597
00:46:10.830 --> 00:46:17.074
So you've chosen convenience or autonomy, the ability to plan your own holiday on your own terms using technology.
598
00:46:17.314 --> 00:46:18.494
And lots of people chose that.
599
00:46:18.534 --> 00:46:22.436
So at one end, you see these thriving businesses like Booking.com, Trivago.
600
00:46:22.757 --> 00:46:24.277
And the experience has completely changed.
601
00:46:24.297 --> 00:46:25.798
And for most people, they don't even think about it.
602
00:46:25.818 --> 00:46:28.319
They just sleepwalk into that experience and they get exactly what they need.
603
00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:39.263
But we also see this thriving economy of like boutique travel agents who are providing exceptional service, who are understanding the needs of the kids.
604
00:46:39.543 --> 00:46:45.565
And they're thinking deeply about the experience that this family is going to have for three weeks when they go on a multi-stop trip.
605
00:46:45.585 --> 00:46:46.566
And it's all planned out.
606
00:46:46.586 --> 00:46:47.786
And there's an itinerary.
607
00:46:48.426 --> 00:46:49.887
And those families will never...
608
00:46:50.627 --> 00:46:53.248
not go back to that estate agent for their holiday.
609
00:46:53.468 --> 00:46:56.010
And hopefully they become more wealthy and they take more holidays.
610
00:46:56.570 --> 00:46:59.752
But these businesses are also operating at admirable scale now.
611
00:47:00.532 --> 00:47:02.693
And I think we're going to see exactly the same in the mortgage industry.
612
00:47:03.213 --> 00:47:05.314
And they'll be able to do that very quickly.
613
00:47:05.674 --> 00:47:06.575
But they need to start now.
614
00:47:08.264 --> 00:47:09.044
I like that analogy.
615
00:47:09.965 --> 00:47:11.705
And I certainly don't disagree.
616
00:47:12.366 --> 00:47:14.726
That's potentially what's going to happen.
617
00:47:14.746 --> 00:47:19.148
I think they're also going to be able to offer other services that they can't imagine offering today.
618
00:47:19.788 --> 00:47:28.932
They just haven't had the time to sit with the ideas that are in the back of their mind about what their business could be, experiment with it, gather customer feedback.
619
00:47:29.832 --> 00:47:33.195
put some money towards it, lean into it, and really differentiate.
620
00:47:33.535 --> 00:47:38.338
We're not seeing that yet, but I think we're about to enter that era for some of the best businesses.
621
00:47:39.419 --> 00:47:39.599
Love it.
622
00:47:39.639 --> 00:47:49.026
Is there anything that we haven't covered today, Carl, that you maybe just want to talk about, maybe it's a last topic, from an AI, Jamjar, financial services perspective?
623
00:47:49.330 --> 00:48:07.795
I think one of the things that I observe and I hear about where the market is at right now is that everyone's talking about AI and musing or saying they're doing some AI stuff.
624
00:48:09.398 --> 00:48:16.624
And I think it's hard for brokers to join the dots and understand what it means for their business because seeing is believing.
625
00:48:17.285 --> 00:48:17.485
Right.
626
00:48:17.505 --> 00:48:23.350
And when you see it, you know, I remember the first time I saw a chat GPT, you don't unsee it.
627
00:48:23.650 --> 00:48:29.175
And then that sets a chain of events running that in our case led to the creation of Jamjar and the amazing work we do with our customers.
628
00:48:29.195 --> 00:48:29.615
Yeah.
629
00:48:29.935 --> 00:48:34.978
And so this troubles me a little bit that there's so much talk and so little to actually gather around and study.
630
00:48:35.638 --> 00:48:46.724
And so we did a live stream event where we went online and we basically said, come along if you're interested and have a look at Jamjar and I will talk you through an end to end case.
631
00:48:48.525 --> 00:48:49.165
Really popular.
632
00:48:50.346 --> 00:48:56.107
It definitely was like a periodic moment in our history where everything after that seemed a lot easier.
633
00:48:56.707 --> 00:48:57.828
And we're doing another one of those.
634
00:48:58.288 --> 00:49:06.910
Okay, because we've come on leaps and bounds and our customers have contributed lots of great thinking to the product and it's become something even better and very different to what it was before.
635
00:49:07.791 --> 00:49:09.071
So on the 17th of September.
636
00:49:09.851 --> 00:49:27.078
um we're going to be airing one of those um and you'll be able to see it on our website and we'll clip it up into shorts and we just think that it's time to you know be even louder and even more proud of the work that we've done we're going to start sneezing it out there love it marketing legion right it's exactly it's what it's all about but love that so i'd advise anybody to
637
00:49:27.738 --> 00:49:33.039
get involved, depending upon when this is released, you know, if you're interested, reach out a call and just say, because he showed me the product.
638
00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:38.641
And I was a bit like, wow, okay, this is something for sure.
639
00:49:38.661 --> 00:49:39.341
It's very different.
640
00:49:39.601 --> 00:49:40.221
Yeah, no, it is.
641
00:49:40.581 --> 00:49:42.861
And I think it's what's needed, right?
642
00:49:43.102 --> 00:49:43.482
That's right.
643
00:49:43.842 --> 00:49:53.004
And also all Wealthy Advisor Club members, clients of mine, reach out with a great bit of an exclusive rate, only for Wealthy Advisor Club members.
644
00:49:54.124 --> 00:49:55.525
But, Carl, honestly, it's been fascinating.
645
00:49:55.545 --> 00:50:00.729
I'd like to actually do another one of these at some point because the rate of change is so quick.
646
00:50:01.030 --> 00:50:06.234
And I'd love to fast forward six, 12 months and see what the conversation would look like.
647
00:50:06.254 --> 00:50:06.674
Let's do it again.
648
00:50:06.694 --> 00:50:08.736
Because I think it would be fascinating.
649
00:50:09.076 --> 00:50:11.638
You can hold me to account on some of the predictions.
650
00:50:11.678 --> 00:50:12.519
Yeah, well, let's see.
651
00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:12.919
Let's see.
652
00:50:13.319 --> 00:50:16.642
But honestly, I just want to say, I think what you're doing is fantastic.
653
00:50:16.682 --> 00:50:17.163
And I think...
654
00:50:17.803 --> 00:50:22.106
I think you're leading the way almost in this financial services AI space.
655
00:50:22.146 --> 00:50:26.848
And I'm excited to watch your journey and how much it ultimately helps brokers.
656
00:50:26.868 --> 00:50:30.370
My objective is to help brokers, drive in more revenue, scale the companies.
657
00:50:30.590 --> 00:50:32.491
Yours is the same, just in a different way.
658
00:50:33.172 --> 00:50:34.733
So thank you for your time, my friend.
659
00:50:34.753 --> 00:50:35.213
I appreciate it.
660
00:50:35.233 --> 00:50:35.653
That's really kind.
661
00:50:35.733 --> 00:50:36.774
I appreciate it.
662
00:50:36.794 --> 00:50:37.174
Thanks a lot.
663
00:50:37.414 --> 00:50:37.634
Cheers.
664
00:50:38.175 --> 00:50:38.355
Cheers.
665
00:50:39.262 --> 00:50:40.743
So that's it for today's episode.
666
00:50:40.763 --> 00:50:44.206
Now, before you switch off, I'm not going to ask you to like and subscribe.
667
00:50:44.806 --> 00:50:49.670
Only thing that I ask for, I'm putting a lot into this thing and I'm giving away a lot of value for free.
668
00:50:50.291 --> 00:50:52.552
The only thing that I'm going to ask for in return
669
00:50:53.642 --> 00:50:55.184
is that you click that share button.
670
00:50:55.225 --> 00:50:59.631
You send it to one person who you feel would benefit from this episode.
671
00:50:59.932 --> 00:51:10.808
If you feel that someone you know, a work colleague, a staff member, a friend who's in this industry who could benefit or who would enjoy what I've just talked about, just send them it.
672
00:51:10.848 --> 00:51:14.434
Send them it on WhatsApp, send them it on email, or just forward the episode to them.
673
00:51:14.774 --> 00:51:16.176
That is my only ask.
674
00:51:16.477 --> 00:51:17.298
That is my only ask.
675
00:51:17.659 --> 00:51:20.523
Click the share button, send it to someone who you think would enjoy it.
676
00:51:20.944 --> 00:51:21.585
Thank you for listening.