263: Navigating Accommodations and Self-Advocacy in the Legal Field (w/AJ Link)

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Lee Burgess: Welcome back to
the Bar Exam Toolbox podcast.
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00:00:04,349 --> 00:00:07,979
Today, we are excited to have AJ
Link joining us on the podcast.
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AJ is the president of the National
Disabled Legal Professionals Association,
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and we are going to be talking about
accommodations and advocating for
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yourself in the legal profession.
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Your Bar Exam Toolbox hosts are
Alison Monahan and Lee Burgess,
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that's me.
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We're here to demystify the bar
exam experience, so you can study
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effectively, stay sane, and hopefully
pass and move on with your life.
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We're the co-creators of the Law School
Toolbox, the Bar Exam Toolbox, and the
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career-related website CareerDicta.
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Alison also runs The
Girl's Guide to Law School.
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If you enjoy the show, please leave
a review or rating on your favorite
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listening app, and check out our sister
podcast, the Law School Toolbox podcast.
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If you have you have any questions,
don't hesitate to reach out to us.
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You can reach us via the contact
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and we'd love to hear from you.
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And with that, let's get started.
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Lee Burgess: Welcome back!
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Today we are excited to have AJ
Link joining us on the podcast.
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AJ is the president of the National
Disabled Legal Professionals Association,
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and today we are going to be talking
about accommodations and advocating
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for yourself in the legal profession.
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So AJ, welcome to the podcast.
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Thanks so much for taking
time to speak with me.
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AJ Link: Thank you so much for
having me, I really appreciate it.
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I am currently wearing a pink hat and a
green shirt, and I am a black dude with
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a beard, for those who are following
along audio or just wanted to know what
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I look like for a visual description.
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Lee Burgess: Awesome, awesome.
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And you have a lot of really cool
framed things behind you too.
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I'm really into your backdrop.
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It's not a backdrop; it's real life.
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It's just beautiful
framed things behind you.
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AJ Link: Yeah, the way it works is, I
buy maybe like 75% or less of things and
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then my wife does all the decorating.
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So we have a gallery wall downstairs.
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This is the office and
we have cool pictures.
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So, the only contribution I
have is getting some of the
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stuff; I don't actually hang it.
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Lee Burgess: I love it.
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I love a good gallery wall.
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Alright, well, to kick things off
and welcome you to the podcast, I'd
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love to have you share a little bit
more about yourself and your journey
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to this point in your legal career.
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AJ Link: Yeah, I will try.
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I think I try to be as consistent
as possible in this story, but
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I guess details change, right?
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I currently do a lot of different things,
I'm really lucky and fortunate that I
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get to work on a lot of cool projects.
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I get to teach Space Law at
Howard University School of
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Law - that's really cool.
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I get to work on disability policy.
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Like you said, I'm the president
of the National Disabled Legal
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Professionals Association.
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I am the former president of the National
Disabled Law Students Association.
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And I've had a weird
winding journey to get here.
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I went to undergrad in
Florida, where I'm from.
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And then I was just hanging out
and I was like, "Oh, maybe I
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should do something with my life."
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So I decided to go to
law school on a whim.
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I guess that's not normal.
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Most people don't get bored and go
to law school, but that's what I did.
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And I moved to D.C., I went to GW.
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And that's where I started doing
advocacy in a more tangible sense,
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and working on issues I cared about.
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So, doing advocacy for law students
with disabilities while I was in
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school, doing advocacy for students
with disability more broadly, studying
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human rights law, studying disability
rights, and growing as an advocate.
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And like many advocates, I started
off doing self-advocacy, which
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we're going to talk about and how
difficult that can be sometimes.
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And then I started doing advocacy for
other students, and then advocacy for an
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organization, and that just kept growing
and growing until I became allegedly
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a national disability advocate, doing
disability advocacy for students all
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around the country, for early career
professionals all around the country,
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and taking the knowledge and the skills
that I had, and applying it in different
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spaces to make the legal profession and
other places more accessible for disabled
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folks who deserve to be in those spaces.
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So, I know that was a roundabout
way of getting to who I am and
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what I do, but I mostly just do
disability advocacy wherever I am
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and whatever project I'm working on.
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Lee Burgess: That's great.
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I love a good winding career
path, so I'm here with you.
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AJ Link: I appreciate that, thank you.
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Lee Burgess: So, you mentioned you are
currently the president of the National
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Disabled Legal Professionals Association.
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And when I was doing some research,
this is a newer organization,
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formed in 2022 or around there.
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Am I correct on that?
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AJ Link: I think technically
we were formed in 2023.
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I don't know about the incorporation and
all that stuff; we're still getting all
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the paperwork finalized and official.
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But what happened was, a bunch of
us formed the National Disabled Law
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Students Association, or NDLSA, in
2020, right as the pandemic was forming.
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Really difficult to start a non-profit
during the middle of a pandemic,
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for folks who haven't tried it.
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I know lots of people did.
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And what happened was, we were students at
the time, and so we made an organization
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for students, but also early career
professionals that still had some of
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the same problems and issues that
students had, or recent graduates had,
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so that includes licensure and taking
the bar exam and things like that.
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But as that cohort of advocates grew up
and started their careers, we realized
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that there was a need for a separate
organization, an organization that still
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works closely with NDLSA, so we have a
good relationship with them, but focused
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on legal professionals - and not just
attorneys, but all legal professionals
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that can include disabled judges, that
can include disabled paralegals or any
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other kind of person within the legal
profession that is disabled and needs
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community, needs support, needs whatever.
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And so, we decided that as a group,
after we had outgrown NDLSA and had
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left it to the next generation of
student leaders and advocates, that we
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should make an organization that better
represented where we were in our careers
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and where we were moving in our careers.
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And so, we founded the National
Disabled Legal Professionals
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Association, either 2023, 2024.
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Time is a flat circle, or
whatever the saying is.
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But yeah, again, I think something
that is helpful for me - not helpful
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in answering this question - is, it's
always the same work, whatever the
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title of the organization is, whatever
the structure of the group of organizer
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advocates is, it's all the same work.
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And so for me, it's easy to just say,
"Well, I'm doing the same thing."
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But when someone asks me a question
like what's the date, it's a lot
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harder to distinguish between projects.
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So, maybe I should work on that.
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But for me, it's just like, it's the
same work I've always been doing;
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it's just under a different label.
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Lee Burgess: Yeah.
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It's just a younger project
than another project, right?
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AJ Link: Yeah, a project
that needs infrastructure.
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I have a habit of starting new things
that don't exist, and maybe I should have
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a better habit of finding things that
already exist and maybe that's less work.
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Lee Burgess: Well, only if the
things that you need already exist,
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because if not, then you have to
create them yourselves, right?
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AJ Link: Yes, I always get it mixed up.
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I don't know if it's Maya Angelou or
Toni Morrison that said, "If there's a
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book that you want to read that hasn't
been written yet, then write it."
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I forget which one, but that's basically
me and non-profits, which is awful.
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If you need a non-profit to exist,
go and create it, and deal with
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all the frustration of doing that.
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Lee Burgess: So, if someone listening
to this podcast is a law student and
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is interested in the National Disabled
Law Students Association, is that only
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a national association or does it have
chapters at different law schools?
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Can you share a little about how
students can learn more about that?
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And then we'll dive into
more specifics about legal
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professionals and the bar exam.
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AJ Link: Yeah, so I want to say the
last time I checked in with the NDLSA
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leadership, they said there were student
organizations at over 60 law schools.
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I may be wrong with that
number, but that sounds really
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awesome, and I hope it's true.
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So, there are student organizations
at a bunch of different law schools.
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I think when we founded the organization,
we had eight law schools - seven or
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eight - definitely less than a dozen.
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So, to hear that number
is just incredible.
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And you can reach out to the NDLSA
leadership team, you can reach out to
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their website, they've got social media
on a bunch of different platforms and
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figure out what schools have student
organizations or something like that.
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So there are a ton of resources out
there, definitely check them out.
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Visit the website.
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People are also free to reach
out to me and I can connect them
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with all the relevant folks.
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But if you're a student, there
are definitely people out
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there that are willing to help.
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There's definitely community out there.
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And hopefully you're at a school
that has a student organization.
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And if you don't, I guess going
back to what we just talked
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about - maybe you can make one.
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They have resources to help you
start an organization too, if
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Lee Burgess: you want
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AJ Link: to do that.
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So, yeah.
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Lee Burgess: Awesome.
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Many people listening to this
podcast are in law school or
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preparing to sit for the bar exam.
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So, for many disabled law
students and bar takers, exam
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accommodations is a main focus.
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Yet, often students hesitate
to file for them I think they
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do this for a lot of reasons.
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But I'm curious what you think are some
of the reasons that students hesitate to
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file for accommodations and go through the
accommodations process with the bar exam.
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AJ Link: There are so many - it's
expensive, it's arduous, it's
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tiresome, it's frustrating.
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A lot of people don't want to
disclose their disability to the
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people who are responsible for their
admission to their jurisdiction's bar.
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There is, I don't know,
internalized ableism for some folks.
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Maybe they don't feel disabled even
if they have a disability, maybe
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they don't like using that word.
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There are so many different reasons
and the system has been created to
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reinforce those, to tell people you
don't need accommodations, or you're not
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disabled enough to get accommodations,
or you don't deserve accommodations, or
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accommodations are a form of cheating
and it makes you less worthy if you use
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accommodations and pass the bar exam.
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I think there are so many different
reasons and everyone's experience
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with the process is different.
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I think there are some people who try
to get accommodations and don't get
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them, and for whatever reason have to
take the exam again, and then don't
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want to go through that process because
it was so difficult, because it was so
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frustrating, because it was so traumatic.
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It's really frustrating and enraging
having to hear some of the stories
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that people share with me - and I'm
really fortunate that they trust
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me with those stories - because
it shouldn't have to be that way.
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It's a choice we've decided as a
collective profession I didn't decide it
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because I wasn't around - but collectively
as a profession, we've decided that we
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want to make this process as difficult,
as frustrating, as hard as possible.
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And I know some jurisdictions are moving
in a more accessible direction and a
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better direction, but collectively,
we still have such a long way
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to go to make the accommodations
process for these examinations
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easier and more accessible to folks.
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Lee Burgess: I agree with all of that.
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I remember doing a podcast actually
very early on when we started doing this
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podcast years ago, with someone who was a
therapist and would help students file for
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accommodations for certain disabilities.
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And one of the things that he said
that I've always carried with me
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is this idea that all you're trying
to do is level the playing field.
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I think there's this idea that if you
pass the bar with accommodations, that
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it might be because you got an advantage.
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And that may be through the lens of
someone who isn't needing to advocate
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for these accommodations for themselves.
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But I also think that I've had
students where I've said, "I think
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you need to advocate for yourself.
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I think you need this."
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And they feel guilty about that, or
they feel that it is somehow like
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a benefit that they're asking for.
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And for me personally, this
idea that all we're trying to
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do is level the playing field...
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Whether or not the game is rigged is
a whole different question, right?
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Whether or not the game
should be as the game is.
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But in the game that we have
chosen to play, we're just
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trying to level the playing field.
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That really changed my perspective
as I learned more about this.
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I do try to share that idea with students
who are struggling with this idea that
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they're going to get something extra,
because it's not getting something extra;
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it's just leveling the playing field.
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Am I explaining it in a way
that you think is helpful?
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AJ Link: Yeah.
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I think a lot of people have to push back
against the idea that accommodations are
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special treatment or cheating or whatever
other kind of negative stereotype or story
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people want to talk about accommodations.
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But for me - and this isn't disagreeing
with talking about leveling the playing
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field - it's more of, how do we make
individuals or prepare individuals to
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be the best legal professional, or in
this case, the best test taker possible?
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How do we create an environment
where they can be their best selves?
255
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I know that the bar exam is a
gatekeeping mechanism, and that's
256
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what it was designed to do.
257
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The alleged reason for the
bar exam is to show minimum
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competency or minimal competency.
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But for me it's more of, how can we see
the best of this person in this situation?
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I don't want to know how
minimally competent a person is;
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I want to know how they thrive.
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And we can talk about whether or
not the bar exam is the best measure
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of someone's ability to be a legal
professional because everyone knows it's
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not, even the people who try to defend
it, but for me, it's not necessarily
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leveling the playing field, even though
I know that's what the accommodations
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in a strict sense are trying to do.
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It's, how do we create the best
environment for this person to thrive?
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How can we see the best of this person?
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The legal profession to me is supposed
to be this really - I don't want to say
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"prestigious" because I think that's part
of the gatekeeping problem - but this
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really cool opportunity to do tangible
work to make people's lives better,
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if that is what people choose to do.
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And I want to see the best of people
when they're trying to do that, when
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they're trying to reach that level.
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I don't want to be part of a community
and a profession where the hazing
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ritual is, "How can we make your life
as miserable as possible for 48 to
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72 hours and see if you survive?"
278
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For me personally, that is not
how I want to view my profession,
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and I think unfortunately that is
the way a lot of people view it.
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And a lot of people in the
legal profession take pride
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in that, unfortunately.
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Lee Burgess: Yeah, I agree.
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I also think that for students and
bar takers, especially those who
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perhaps didn't get accommodations
for whatever reason in law school,
285
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that they have a limited view of the
accommodations that are available to them.
286
00:17:09,260 --> 00:17:12,590
I think everybody hears about
extended time for various things.
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00:17:12,910 --> 00:17:18,600
I've learned about many other possible
accommodations over the years, from
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00:17:18,975 --> 00:17:23,055
being able to use a whiteboard, to
being able to dictate things, to
289
00:17:23,155 --> 00:17:26,975
breastfeeding accommodations, if you
are pumping breast milk, if you've just
290
00:17:26,975 --> 00:17:31,445
had a child, to being closer to the
restroom, if you have a medical condition
291
00:17:31,445 --> 00:17:34,615
that means you might need to go to the
restroom, being able to drink water.
292
00:17:34,845 --> 00:17:43,765
I've also learned that accommodations
includes a very wide array of things
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that you can ask for, but of course you
have to be empowered to ask for them.
294
00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:51,920
And I think that's what's really the
challenge - you have to know that those
295
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:56,140
accommodations are available, and then
you have to go be able to ask for them.
296
00:17:56,540 --> 00:17:59,850
So, how do you think that we
create more visibility around
297
00:17:59,860 --> 00:18:03,770
these possible accommodations and
encourage folks to ask for the very
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specific things that they may need?
299
00:18:06,067 --> 00:18:08,167
AJ Link: More education about the process.
300
00:18:08,207 --> 00:18:12,447
I was really fortunate to participate
in an event last week or a couple
301
00:18:12,447 --> 00:18:16,897
of weeks ago about this topic,
and something that I told students
302
00:18:16,897 --> 00:18:19,477
is, ask for whatever you can.
303
00:18:19,557 --> 00:18:23,477
A lot of things that people don't
think would be an accommodation are.
304
00:18:23,637 --> 00:18:27,357
You mentioned water - a lot
of jurisdictions don't let
305
00:18:27,357 --> 00:18:28,657
you have a water bottle.
306
00:18:29,167 --> 00:18:32,707
Stop clock breaks, bathroom breaks,
being close to the bathroom.
307
00:18:33,237 --> 00:18:38,527
I think whatever you need in
order to have the best test-taking
308
00:18:38,547 --> 00:18:42,207
environment for you possible is
something that you should ask for.
309
00:18:42,207 --> 00:18:46,755
This is something I learned about
during law school, where I had an
310
00:18:46,755 --> 00:18:50,895
accommodation for a private setting
and extended time, and I just happened
311
00:18:51,005 --> 00:18:54,855
to get a white noise machine once
and I thought, "Oh, this is cool."
312
00:18:55,755 --> 00:18:57,755
And I didn't get the white noise machine.
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I didn't ask for the white noise machine
as an accommodation, and I didn't get it.
314
00:19:01,245 --> 00:19:03,535
After I had gotten it a few
times, I was like, "Oh, can I
315
00:19:03,545 --> 00:19:04,735
have a white noise machine?"
316
00:19:04,935 --> 00:19:06,565
And the response was,
"Oh, we don't have one.
317
00:19:06,565 --> 00:19:09,585
It's not in your accommodations,
so you can't use it."
318
00:19:10,395 --> 00:19:16,760
It wasn't the worst thing ever for me,
but I realize that you need to be very
319
00:19:16,820 --> 00:19:21,800
explicit and you need to talk to the
people who are writing your notes, your
320
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,550
PCP, your medical providers, whoever
who are writing your notes and your
321
00:19:24,550 --> 00:19:26,440
documentation to be very specific.
322
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:32,435
Maybe you need to use the bathroom
at least three times every hour and
323
00:19:32,435 --> 00:19:34,115
you need stop clock breaks for that.
324
00:19:34,115 --> 00:19:37,805
So, you need to ask for extended
time, stop clock breaks, and
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00:19:37,815 --> 00:19:39,895
bathroom breaks to use those.
326
00:19:40,245 --> 00:19:42,965
And to your point, it
can be really creative.
327
00:19:42,975 --> 00:19:47,970
It may not be something that is
necessarily caused by your disability,
328
00:19:47,970 --> 00:19:51,550
but it could be an accommodation that
lessens the impact of your disability,
329
00:19:51,550 --> 00:19:55,200
or prevents your disability from
being exasperated during the exam.
330
00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,620
And something that I talked about at
this event is, it's really important
331
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to craft your request and your
notice and your documentation as a
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00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:07,320
holistic story of why you need it.
333
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:12,250
So not saying, "I have this disability
which requires this accommodation,
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and I have this other disability that
requires this other accommodation."
335
00:20:15,730 --> 00:20:20,030
It's, "No, I am a disabled person with
all of these disabilities that impact
336
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me in such a way that I need to have all
of these accommodations in order to the
337
00:20:25,385 --> 00:20:29,415
point you were making earlier - to thrive,
to level the playing field, to be in the
338
00:20:29,425 --> 00:20:34,155
best environment possible in order for
me to show my competency on this exam."
339
00:20:34,295 --> 00:20:37,468
So, I think you can ask
for whatever, right?
340
00:20:37,518 --> 00:20:40,348
What they'll give you
is obviously different.
341
00:20:40,348 --> 00:20:43,768
And there's the reasonable
restriction on that.
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00:20:44,248 --> 00:20:46,998
Who even knows what "reasonable"
is in the legal profession?
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00:20:47,288 --> 00:20:47,928
Lee Burgess: Debatable.
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00:20:47,928 --> 00:20:49,558
It's debatable, is what it is.
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00:20:49,608 --> 00:20:51,758
AJ Link: Yeah, and people
debate what's a reasonable
346
00:20:51,758 --> 00:20:53,218
accommodation all the time, right?
347
00:20:53,228 --> 00:20:57,028
And what's reasonable to one jurisdiction
may not be reasonable to another.
348
00:20:57,388 --> 00:21:01,908
And as the UBE continues to expand, I
think it would be helpful for people to
349
00:21:01,908 --> 00:21:07,518
research which jurisdictions are more
accommodating than others, have an easier
350
00:21:07,518 --> 00:21:11,578
accommodations process than others, and
that may be helpful, and maybe it's worth
351
00:21:11,578 --> 00:21:14,428
it to go somewhere else and then wave in.
352
00:21:15,168 --> 00:21:20,578
But ask for whatever you need and be able
to craft the narrative to justify that.
353
00:21:20,578 --> 00:21:27,068
I don't think you should restrict yourself
to time and a half and a quiet space.
354
00:21:27,568 --> 00:21:31,358
I know people who have asked for
paper copies of an electronic exam,
355
00:21:31,358 --> 00:21:33,078
because they can't process properly.
356
00:21:33,078 --> 00:21:37,838
I know people who have had to ask
for a reader, someone to read
357
00:21:37,838 --> 00:21:40,478
the questions to them instead of
using screen reading software,
358
00:21:40,728 --> 00:21:42,228
just because of how they process.
359
00:21:42,938 --> 00:21:48,070
It really just depends on the
person, and part of asking for the
360
00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:52,730
accommodations that you need is really
evaluating, again, the best environment
361
00:21:52,730 --> 00:21:54,040
that you can create for yourself.
362
00:21:55,085 --> 00:21:55,485
Lee Burgess: Yeah.
363
00:21:56,345 --> 00:22:01,785
I've encouraged some of my students to
forum shop for accommodations before.
364
00:22:02,415 --> 00:22:08,065
New York is notorious for not being
particularly generous with accommodations.
365
00:22:08,115 --> 00:22:12,185
California is its own beast, because
you can't just wave into California.
366
00:22:12,815 --> 00:22:17,895
I know students who've gone to New
Jersey to sit for the UBE, and then
367
00:22:17,895 --> 00:22:21,855
will wave into New York, because
they could not get the time and a
368
00:22:21,855 --> 00:22:23,835
half that they needed in New York.
369
00:22:24,635 --> 00:22:28,225
The things like the UBE are
going to change the landscape.
370
00:22:28,235 --> 00:22:32,495
Maybe it'll make things more equitable
around the country, hopefully.
371
00:22:32,585 --> 00:22:36,745
But if it doesn't, I think
that it is worth exploring to
372
00:22:37,295 --> 00:22:38,825
take in all of your options.
373
00:22:38,975 --> 00:22:42,615
Because again, it's not like you're
trying to get a leg up; you're just
374
00:22:42,645 --> 00:22:45,285
trying to level the playing field,
you're trying to be your best self.
375
00:22:45,355 --> 00:22:48,805
So, there's nothing wrong with finding
a jurisdiction that's going to allow
376
00:22:48,805 --> 00:22:50,495
you to do that so you can get licensed.
377
00:22:51,095 --> 00:22:51,425
AJ Link: Yeah.
378
00:22:51,435 --> 00:22:55,775
I fully encourage people to find
the jurisdiction that is best for
379
00:22:55,775 --> 00:22:59,995
them to show that they are minimally
competent to be a legal professional.
380
00:23:00,575 --> 00:23:00,955
Lee Burgess: Yeah.
381
00:23:01,298 --> 00:23:05,418
Another thing that I have seen
with some of the students that I
382
00:23:05,418 --> 00:23:10,298
work with is the need to file for
these accommodations early so you
383
00:23:10,308 --> 00:23:12,488
have an opportunity to appeal.
384
00:23:13,298 --> 00:23:17,798
And I think that the idea, as you were
saying, of telling a story, and then
385
00:23:17,798 --> 00:23:23,878
also having your medical professionals
or advocates or whoever is helping
386
00:23:23,878 --> 00:23:27,448
you ask for these accommodations
be very specific in their asks.
387
00:23:27,498 --> 00:23:31,403
Sometimes it takes a couple of tries,
and it's heartbreaking for me when
388
00:23:31,403 --> 00:23:35,803
somebody applies for accommodations
as late as possible, like right before
389
00:23:35,803 --> 00:23:42,153
the deadline, and then they'll get
their accommodations letter days before
390
00:23:42,173 --> 00:23:47,883
the test, and then there's no hope
at appeal, because there's no time.
391
00:23:48,283 --> 00:23:53,983
So, have you seen in your work the
appeals process be helpful for students?
392
00:23:54,383 --> 00:23:57,613
Do you also encourage folks
to apply as early as they can?
393
00:23:58,097 --> 00:24:03,237
AJ Link: I have seen some people
navigate appeals processes successfully.
394
00:24:03,487 --> 00:24:08,667
I don't know if that makes the appeals
process in every jurisdiction beneficial.
395
00:24:09,007 --> 00:24:11,417
I think, again, it goes back to education.
396
00:24:11,417 --> 00:24:14,867
A lot of students aren't thinking about
this because they shouldn't while they're
397
00:24:14,867 --> 00:24:20,067
in school, but you need to start the
process, I would say as early as your 1L
398
00:24:20,067 --> 00:24:27,457
summer, making sure that you have updated
diagnostics and diagnoses, which is really
399
00:24:27,457 --> 00:24:31,847
unfortunate for people who have lifetime
diagnoses, but a lot of jurisdictions
400
00:24:31,847 --> 00:24:36,237
will say, and I've heard direct
things like, "Are you still autistic?"
401
00:24:37,137 --> 00:24:39,342
Like it goes away, right?
402
00:24:39,342 --> 00:24:45,892
Yeah, but a lot of times you need
to have a diagnosis within, a lot of
403
00:24:45,892 --> 00:24:48,582
jurisdictions will say the last five
years, some will say the last 10.
404
00:24:49,142 --> 00:24:53,272
And a lot of people who have
accommodations have had them since
405
00:24:53,272 --> 00:24:54,722
they were in elementary school.
406
00:24:54,722 --> 00:25:00,732
I've had IEPs or 504 plans that are
15, maybe 20 years old, and for some
407
00:25:00,732 --> 00:25:05,002
jurisdictions that documentation isn't
recent enough, isn't good enough.
408
00:25:05,052 --> 00:25:09,657
There is also the reverse, where
people have developed disabilities
409
00:25:09,657 --> 00:25:13,445
or become aware of their disabilities
in law school, or they have access
410
00:25:13,445 --> 00:25:16,445
to better health care to be diagnosed
with disabilities in law school, so
411
00:25:16,445 --> 00:25:18,165
they don't have that full record.
412
00:25:18,515 --> 00:25:22,285
Maybe it happened your 1L year, and
by the time you're a 3L or you've
413
00:25:22,285 --> 00:25:26,265
taken a year off to study for the bar,
that diagnostic isn't current enough.
414
00:25:26,375 --> 00:25:28,765
So, all of this is to say
that's just one part of it.
415
00:25:28,985 --> 00:25:32,605
Start the process as early as possible,
learn about the jurisdictions that
416
00:25:32,605 --> 00:25:36,555
you may or may not be applying to and
their processes as early as possible.
417
00:25:36,935 --> 00:25:40,085
Reach out to the jurisdictions,
asking them, "How does your
418
00:25:40,085 --> 00:25:41,745
accommodations process work?
419
00:25:41,745 --> 00:25:44,440
Who is the point of contact for
your accommodations process?
420
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,129
What materials do I need?
421
00:25:47,470 --> 00:25:50,900
How early can I turn them in?",
rather than when's the due date,
422
00:25:50,900 --> 00:25:54,350
which I know is frustrating as a
law student because people are doing
423
00:25:54,350 --> 00:25:57,120
all different types of things and
have all different types of focuses.
424
00:25:57,370 --> 00:26:01,965
But I think that's really important to
understand, that these systems aren't
425
00:26:01,965 --> 00:26:05,773
designed to make sure that you have
your accommodations, whether you've had
426
00:26:05,773 --> 00:26:07,363
accommodations in law school or not.
427
00:26:07,693 --> 00:26:08,783
I've had this question too.
428
00:26:08,823 --> 00:26:10,573
I'm sure we'll talk about it, right?
429
00:26:10,753 --> 00:26:11,683
It doesn't matter.
430
00:26:11,693 --> 00:26:15,303
Some jurisdictions take into account
that you've had accommodations in law
431
00:26:15,303 --> 00:26:16,893
school and that's a benefit to you.
432
00:26:17,253 --> 00:26:20,253
Some jurisdictions don't take
that into account at all.
433
00:26:20,453 --> 00:26:23,003
Some jurisdictions take into account
that you didn't have accommodations
434
00:26:23,003 --> 00:26:26,443
in law school, because a lot of
students self-accommodate, and
435
00:26:26,443 --> 00:26:27,613
they will use that against you.
436
00:26:27,813 --> 00:26:31,283
It's really hard to know jurisdiction
by jurisdiction; that's why it's
437
00:26:31,283 --> 00:26:34,293
really important to reach out to
the jurisdictions to understand
438
00:26:34,293 --> 00:26:39,273
their processes, and to do that in
email, so you have it in writing.
439
00:26:39,593 --> 00:26:42,613
Practicing good skills as you
join the legal profession to
440
00:26:42,613 --> 00:26:45,383
make sure you're documenting
the conversations you're having,
441
00:26:46,273 --> 00:26:47,603
to use that to your advantage.
442
00:26:47,778 --> 00:26:52,488
Maybe they only allow phone calls, but
sending a follow-up email somewhere
443
00:26:52,488 --> 00:26:55,078
to document, saying, "This is the
conversation I had, this is the
444
00:26:55,078 --> 00:26:58,628
information I have", and getting as
much information as possible about
445
00:26:58,628 --> 00:27:02,258
the process before, again, you begin
the process, is really helpful.
446
00:27:02,258 --> 00:27:06,798
And again, that may be as early as
your 1L summer; it should definitely
447
00:27:06,798 --> 00:27:08,718
be no later than your 2L summer.
448
00:27:09,573 --> 00:27:11,383
Lee Burgess: I really like that
idea of starting that early.
449
00:27:11,423 --> 00:27:15,603
That's earlier than I have recommended
that folks think about this, unless you're
450
00:27:15,603 --> 00:27:18,973
trying to really just focus on getting
those accommodations in law school.
451
00:27:19,163 --> 00:27:23,443
But you're right, you need to know what
the endgame is, and you need to lay out
452
00:27:23,443 --> 00:27:25,223
the foundation for the documentation.
453
00:27:25,513 --> 00:27:31,323
So often, I've seen letters of rejection
for accommodations, and that's often the
454
00:27:31,323 --> 00:27:36,908
complaint there's not enough of a history,
we don't have these records that we want.
455
00:27:37,058 --> 00:27:38,958
You can't go back and make records.
456
00:27:39,398 --> 00:27:43,968
You can get new records, but you can't
go back and lay a new foundation.
457
00:27:44,555 --> 00:27:50,385
In a law school situation, if a student,
let's say, has a newly diagnosed
458
00:27:50,415 --> 00:27:55,515
disability, is it the Disability
Services for the college as a whole
459
00:27:55,515 --> 00:27:58,165
- because usually the law school is
associated with a larger university
460
00:27:58,475 --> 00:28:02,815
- that will help a student make sure
that they're laying the groundwork
461
00:28:02,815 --> 00:28:07,915
for that documentation and getting
the access they need in law school?
462
00:28:07,916 --> 00:28:10,125
Or is that something you go
to your dean's office about?
463
00:28:10,165 --> 00:28:14,405
Where should students start going
if they want help at their schools?
464
00:28:14,585 --> 00:28:18,775
Or to your organization for
the disabled law students.
465
00:28:19,338 --> 00:28:21,068
AJ Link: That's a really
difficult question.
466
00:28:21,598 --> 00:28:26,208
My very simple response is, go to
the most helpful person you can find.
467
00:28:26,548 --> 00:28:28,648
It's going to be different
at every law school.
468
00:28:28,938 --> 00:28:33,808
Some law schools outsource all of their
Disability Services to the main campus,
469
00:28:34,108 --> 00:28:38,148
some law schools keep their Disability
Services internal to the law school.
470
00:28:39,458 --> 00:28:42,448
There are benefits and
detriments to each one.
471
00:28:42,898 --> 00:28:46,508
If it outsources to the larger university,
that means you have someone outside the
472
00:28:46,508 --> 00:28:52,158
law school enforcing it, and hopefully,
having the students back to make sure
473
00:28:52,158 --> 00:28:53,608
they're getting the accommodations.
474
00:28:54,808 --> 00:28:57,348
But if it's internal to the law school,
maybe they're more familiar with the
475
00:28:57,348 --> 00:29:00,778
student and the processes and have better
relationships with the professors, and
476
00:29:00,778 --> 00:29:03,498
are able to work to ensure that the
student is getting the accommodations
477
00:29:03,498 --> 00:29:05,168
they deserve and can do better follow-up.
478
00:29:05,188 --> 00:29:06,827
So, it depends.
479
00:29:06,937 --> 00:29:09,607
I would say it's really hard to know.
480
00:29:10,087 --> 00:29:15,197
Sometimes it's the Career Services office,
because they're the ones who do the
481
00:29:15,197 --> 00:29:18,947
licensure and the preparation; they're
the ones who are helping students navigate
482
00:29:18,947 --> 00:29:22,747
which jurisdiction they're going to
take the test in, or which jurisdictions
483
00:29:22,747 --> 00:29:25,097
they have the opportunity to test in.
484
00:29:25,727 --> 00:29:28,387
It's really difficult
to know and understand.
485
00:29:28,797 --> 00:29:33,257
This is something that I learned
as a student doing advocacy,
486
00:29:33,257 --> 00:29:35,287
is learning the bureaucracy.
487
00:29:35,327 --> 00:29:39,097
And I know that it was a privilege for me
in the way that I did law school, that I
488
00:29:39,107 --> 00:29:44,037
had the opportunity to learn to navigate
the bureaucracy at my institutions, and
489
00:29:44,037 --> 00:29:46,307
not everyone has that time or capacity.
490
00:29:46,694 --> 00:29:50,414
But that is really helpful - learning
who in the office is really helpful
491
00:29:50,414 --> 00:29:55,284
and nice and can get you a meeting
and can send the email for you is very
492
00:29:55,284 --> 00:29:57,144
beneficial to you when you need it.
493
00:29:57,614 --> 00:30:03,689
And I think student advocates and
organizers should practice that skill
494
00:30:03,689 --> 00:30:06,119
and learn that skill, so that they can
do it for their fellow students who
495
00:30:06,119 --> 00:30:07,809
maybe don't have the time and capacity.
496
00:30:07,809 --> 00:30:12,359
So saying, "This is who has been
really helpful to our organization or
497
00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:15,929
to me personally in navigating this
process, this is who you should talk
498
00:30:15,929 --> 00:30:17,759
to, this is who you should avoid."
499
00:30:17,949 --> 00:30:21,799
These are really small pieces of
information that can be really beneficial
500
00:30:22,209 --> 00:30:26,709
down the line, and that just takes time
and organizing and advocacy efforts.
501
00:30:27,207 --> 00:30:30,997
Lee Burgess: And all that gets
coupled with sometimes mixed feelings
502
00:30:31,087 --> 00:30:36,557
about advocating for yourself maybe
feeling like you are advertising that
503
00:30:36,557 --> 00:30:41,017
you have a disability, or that you
don't want your law school to know
504
00:30:41,027 --> 00:30:42,957
or the wider legal community to know.
505
00:30:43,457 --> 00:30:48,477
What can you share with folks who are
really feeling hesitant at advocating
506
00:30:48,477 --> 00:30:54,437
for themselves around their law school
and with the state bar, - to be able to
507
00:30:54,437 --> 00:30:59,246
get what they need to get the licensure
that's so important to do the work that
508
00:30:59,246 --> 00:31:03,206
they want to do, but are concerned about
how this is going to reflect on them?
509
00:31:03,977 --> 00:31:06,447
AJ Link: Stigma's always
the big question, right?
510
00:31:06,817 --> 00:31:11,287
The stigma of being disabled, the ableism
you'll experience, working through the
511
00:31:11,287 --> 00:31:15,107
internalized ableism, disabiliphobia.
512
00:31:15,427 --> 00:31:20,135
I think it's so hard to tell
someone not to worry about it.
513
00:31:20,245 --> 00:31:24,735
So someone like me, I was totally
fine being the autistic dude on
514
00:31:24,735 --> 00:31:28,395
campus, being the disabled person on
campus, being the disabled advocate.
515
00:31:29,095 --> 00:31:31,235
I was fine with that, but not everyone is.
516
00:31:31,265 --> 00:31:32,175
And it's difficult.
517
00:31:32,555 --> 00:31:38,295
Something I talk about when I'm doing
trainings with people is, some people
518
00:31:38,295 --> 00:31:42,645
just want the privilege of mediocrity
or the privilege of invisibility, right?
519
00:31:42,645 --> 00:31:47,105
You don't want to be quote/unquote,
the one for your identity, the one
520
00:31:47,105 --> 00:31:52,585
who's out there all the time being
vocal, being a frustrating presence,
521
00:31:52,595 --> 00:31:54,975
being annoying to administration.
522
00:31:55,355 --> 00:31:56,915
A lot of people just don't want that.
523
00:31:56,935 --> 00:31:59,395
They can't do it, they don't have
the capacity for it, that's not
524
00:31:59,395 --> 00:32:00,175
the type of person that they are.
525
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:02,280
And that's okay.
526
00:32:02,420 --> 00:32:04,540
I think a lot of people need
to understand that's okay.
527
00:32:04,930 --> 00:32:07,270
You don't have to wrestle
with it if you don't want to.
528
00:32:07,550 --> 00:32:11,840
You don't have to feel bad if you're
not being the best disabled advocate
529
00:32:11,870 --> 00:32:15,910
at your institution or your law
firm or whatever, and that's okay.
530
00:32:16,510 --> 00:32:19,670
Other people will do it eventually,
someone always will do it.
531
00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:21,020
There are organizations out there.
532
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:25,080
I exist if no one else is
doing it, at least one person.
533
00:32:25,090 --> 00:32:27,240
No, there're so many
amazing disabled advocates.
534
00:32:27,770 --> 00:32:34,646
But I think for students, not giving
yourself that pressure to do something
535
00:32:34,646 --> 00:32:36,106
that's uncomfortable is okay.
536
00:32:36,146 --> 00:32:39,986
If you want to do it and you wrestle
with it because it's something you
537
00:32:39,986 --> 00:32:42,136
want to do and you're struggling
with it, I think that's okay too.
538
00:32:42,276 --> 00:32:44,836
There are mentors out there, there
are resources out there, there
539
00:32:45,116 --> 00:32:47,456
are organizations you can talk to,
there are people who've done it and
540
00:32:47,456 --> 00:32:49,686
experienced it that you can talk to.
541
00:32:50,756 --> 00:32:55,956
And so, I think for me it's, again, going
back to how are you most comfortable
542
00:32:55,956 --> 00:32:57,446
and what's going to help you thrive?
543
00:32:57,946 --> 00:33:02,061
Is being vocal about your needs
going to help you thrive once you
544
00:33:02,061 --> 00:33:06,091
get those needs, or is it going
to cause too much frustration?
545
00:33:06,101 --> 00:33:07,401
Is it going to drain you?
546
00:33:07,421 --> 00:33:10,261
Is it going to take up too
much of your capacity, and then
547
00:33:10,261 --> 00:33:11,601
you're not going to do well?
548
00:33:11,901 --> 00:33:16,251
If you spend all your time fighting
for accommodations, and that takes
549
00:33:16,251 --> 00:33:20,511
away from your ability to study
and do your work, is it worth it?
550
00:33:21,001 --> 00:33:23,991
That's a really personal question
and something that's really
551
00:33:23,991 --> 00:33:25,391
personal for people to decide.
552
00:33:26,531 --> 00:33:31,481
As an example for me, it was more
important for me based on who I wanted
553
00:33:31,481 --> 00:33:36,901
to become as an advocate to practice
my advocacy skills, doing advocacy
554
00:33:36,901 --> 00:33:42,371
work and kind of that tangible work
than studying black-letter law, which
555
00:33:42,371 --> 00:33:44,331
is important, I use black-letter law.
556
00:33:44,361 --> 00:33:48,451
But for me, personally, developing
those advocacy skills was more important
557
00:33:48,561 --> 00:33:54,134
and better for me than spending
hours in the library studying cases.
558
00:33:54,194 --> 00:33:57,194
That was just how it was for me;
that's not how it is for everyone.
559
00:33:57,394 --> 00:34:01,774
I just say that to say that everyone's
experience is different, and it's okay
560
00:34:01,774 --> 00:34:03,104
if you don't want to be an advocate.
561
00:34:03,104 --> 00:34:06,024
And if you do, there are lots of
resources out there to help you
562
00:34:06,024 --> 00:34:09,054
navigate the type of advocate you want
to be, because there are different
563
00:34:09,064 --> 00:34:12,114
types of advocacy that you can do too,
especially when you're talking about
564
00:34:12,364 --> 00:34:14,304
self-advocacy and how you go about that.
565
00:34:14,544 --> 00:34:18,014
And I also think that's where the student
organizations come in and can be so
566
00:34:18,014 --> 00:34:21,334
helpful and important they exist so that
students don't have to do it on their own.
567
00:34:21,995 --> 00:34:22,545
Lee Burgess: Yeah.
568
00:34:22,685 --> 00:34:26,475
The thing I kept thinking about as you
were talking was community, you mentioned
569
00:34:26,475 --> 00:34:32,025
mentorship, creating these safe spaces so
that students can explore what it means
570
00:34:32,025 --> 00:34:36,145
to advocate for themselves and others, and
have a picture of what they're taking on.
571
00:34:36,665 --> 00:34:40,975
I would assume it's going to help folks
make better choices for themselves,
572
00:34:41,015 --> 00:34:43,259
either feel empowered, or at least feel
like they have a lot of information, so
573
00:34:43,259 --> 00:34:43,336
they can make the best choices for them.
574
00:34:48,336 --> 00:34:48,726
AJ Link: Yeah.
575
00:34:48,726 --> 00:34:53,736
And you can always go back to the old
standby of, "I have this friend who's
576
00:34:53,736 --> 00:34:55,456
thinking about getting accommodations.
577
00:34:55,506 --> 00:34:56,606
What should they do?"
578
00:34:57,871 --> 00:35:02,141
Lee Burgess: I have definitely
told individuals who are scared to
579
00:35:02,171 --> 00:35:07,741
call a bar exam or a state about
accommodations, I said, "You can just
580
00:35:07,741 --> 00:35:11,721
call, you don't have to give your full
name, tell them you're an applicant.
581
00:35:11,731 --> 00:35:13,101
You could just call and ask questions."
582
00:35:13,131 --> 00:35:15,091
I've called and asked questions before.
583
00:35:15,451 --> 00:35:19,852
So, you can collect information in
a way that might feel a little bit
584
00:35:19,852 --> 00:35:22,672
safer, and if that's empowering
to you, it's not hurting anybody.
585
00:35:23,287 --> 00:35:24,397
AJ Link: I completely agree.
586
00:35:24,827 --> 00:35:25,237
Lee Burgess: Yeah.
587
00:35:25,632 --> 00:35:30,162
Well, before we run out of time, I
wanted to speak a little bit about
588
00:35:30,212 --> 00:35:34,972
entering the legal profession, because
you mentioned that you've taken your
589
00:35:35,042 --> 00:35:39,842
advocacy work from law schools and
into this legal profession space.
590
00:35:39,842 --> 00:35:43,582
And once someone's put the bar exam
behind them, that is really the next
591
00:35:43,592 --> 00:35:46,202
step, is to launch their legal career.
592
00:35:46,712 --> 00:35:53,127
So, what are some of the ways that newly
licensed lawyers or legal professionals
593
00:35:53,267 --> 00:35:56,387
should think about approaching
accommodations in the workplace?
594
00:35:57,512 --> 00:36:01,112
AJ Link: The first thing I would
say students and test takers should
595
00:36:01,132 --> 00:36:05,755
ask themselves is what they want to
do in the legal profession, a job
596
00:36:05,755 --> 00:36:07,395
that requires you to take the bar.
597
00:36:08,361 --> 00:36:12,281
There are so many jobs and opportunities
within the legal profession and even
598
00:36:12,281 --> 00:36:17,553
outside of it, doing policy work or
whatever, where your legal education
599
00:36:17,573 --> 00:36:22,803
and your JD or other legal degree
that you have is super beneficial,
600
00:36:22,803 --> 00:36:27,163
and you can do your job and get your
job without having to take the bar.
601
00:36:27,611 --> 00:36:31,771
I would highly advise people to look
into that before they sign up for a test.
602
00:36:32,141 --> 00:36:36,841
But if you do want to be a practicing
attorney, I think it's important,
603
00:36:36,871 --> 00:36:41,921
again, to the extent possible to
do your research about the process.
604
00:36:42,091 --> 00:36:45,491
I know the job market can be really
competitive and not everyone has the
605
00:36:45,491 --> 00:36:49,631
opportunity to pick from different
employers, but as you're navigating
606
00:36:50,381 --> 00:36:53,981
the recruitment process, you are also
interviewing your future employer.
607
00:36:54,011 --> 00:36:56,661
You are also learning about
them and what they value.
608
00:36:57,091 --> 00:37:01,151
You can learn about their values by
requesting accommodations through the
609
00:37:01,151 --> 00:37:03,061
interview process if you feel comfortable.
610
00:37:03,061 --> 00:37:05,161
Not everyone is comfortable
disclosing during the interview
611
00:37:05,161 --> 00:37:06,351
process, and that's okay.
612
00:37:06,881 --> 00:37:10,411
But that's an opportunity to gauge
what the process is like, who the
613
00:37:10,411 --> 00:37:14,736
point people are, how receptive they
are to providing accommodations.
614
00:37:14,896 --> 00:37:17,916
Do they have the resources to provide
accommodations if you're going to work
615
00:37:17,916 --> 00:37:21,236
at a smaller or mid-level firm that
maybe doesn't have all the resources?
616
00:37:21,646 --> 00:37:26,056
I think there are lots of different
ways to see what an organization is
617
00:37:26,056 --> 00:37:30,717
like, and the interview process is one
of the first places you can do that.
618
00:37:30,957 --> 00:37:34,597
You can do soft disclosure, so through
your cover letter, or saying that
619
00:37:34,597 --> 00:37:39,157
you're part of a disability student
organization, or disability and allies
620
00:37:39,167 --> 00:37:43,377
student organization, because a lot
of organizations use allies because of
621
00:37:43,387 --> 00:37:46,827
kind of the stigma of thinking anyone
that's part of the student organization
622
00:37:46,847 --> 00:37:48,737
is disabled or identifies as disabled.
623
00:37:49,232 --> 00:37:50,372
And then you go from there.
624
00:37:50,582 --> 00:37:56,692
Once you're hired, do immediately reach
out to HR, whoever the person is, because
625
00:37:56,702 --> 00:38:01,262
again, not every law firm or company
or organization is going to have an
626
00:38:01,262 --> 00:38:03,782
HR person who handles accommodations.
627
00:38:04,542 --> 00:38:07,632
Is the organization you're working
for technically covered under the ADA?
628
00:38:08,176 --> 00:38:10,926
There's another tough question
to ask because they may not be.
629
00:38:11,532 --> 00:38:18,055
Does the organization have an affinity
group or an ERG - an employee resource
630
00:38:18,055 --> 00:38:21,999
group - that is for disabled employees?
631
00:38:22,469 --> 00:38:23,829
Do they have that resource?
632
00:38:24,039 --> 00:38:27,329
I think there are lots of different
ways you can do some research.
633
00:38:27,329 --> 00:38:30,579
And again, this all takes time and
working capacity, and not everyone has
634
00:38:30,579 --> 00:38:32,999
that - I want to fully acknowledge that.
635
00:38:32,999 --> 00:38:36,339
But there're things that you can
do to figure out where companies
636
00:38:36,349 --> 00:38:41,329
are, what they believe in, and
how to navigate that process.
637
00:38:41,798 --> 00:38:46,018
Lee Burgess: Yeah, and it sounds like
that's something perhaps that law students
638
00:38:46,018 --> 00:38:49,178
want to think about while they're in law
school - starting some of that research,
639
00:38:49,178 --> 00:38:50,688
if you wanted to spread out the work.
640
00:38:50,948 --> 00:38:55,408
What are these different areas of the
legal profession that you may not need
641
00:38:55,408 --> 00:39:02,028
a license, or what are the reputations
of certain either law firm tracks or
642
00:39:02,068 --> 00:39:07,078
other kind of professional tracks that
may be more amenable to accommodations?
643
00:39:07,079 --> 00:39:09,419
Maybe working with Career
Services around that if you're
644
00:39:09,419 --> 00:39:10,559
comfortable talking to them.
645
00:39:10,879 --> 00:39:14,329
It could be an opportunity to spread out
some of that work, so you're not just
646
00:39:14,339 --> 00:39:16,229
doing it as part of your job hunt too.
647
00:39:16,996 --> 00:39:17,376
AJ Link: Yeah.
648
00:39:17,376 --> 00:39:20,786
And I know it sounds like a lot of work,
especially for students who are trying
649
00:39:20,786 --> 00:39:24,396
to get internships or externships or
figure out what they're going to do for
650
00:39:24,396 --> 00:39:26,406
the summer, or they're taking classes.
651
00:39:26,736 --> 00:39:27,806
Completely understand.
652
00:39:27,816 --> 00:39:31,476
And I know that there are some
organizations that are working on projects
653
00:39:31,476 --> 00:39:33,006
consolidating all this information.
654
00:39:33,006 --> 00:39:37,476
It's really hard to get a hold of, and
there are potential issues with having
655
00:39:37,476 --> 00:39:39,906
it as an open repository and all that.
656
00:39:40,206 --> 00:39:43,836
But I do know that there are people
working to try to make all this work
657
00:39:44,336 --> 00:39:50,071
less cumbersome, easier to access,
and hopefully things like that exist.
658
00:39:50,101 --> 00:39:54,621
I know that internally students
communicate and early career
659
00:39:54,621 --> 00:40:00,391
professionals communicate about which
schools and which companies are okay,
660
00:40:01,276 --> 00:40:05,766
and which are maybe not so okay and
not great, and which jurisdictions
661
00:40:05,986 --> 00:40:07,876
are doing better and which aren't.
662
00:40:07,926 --> 00:40:11,356
Those forums and those avenues
for communication are available;
663
00:40:11,356 --> 00:40:12,536
you just have to find them.
664
00:40:13,166 --> 00:40:13,526
Lee Burgess: Yeah.
665
00:40:13,854 --> 00:40:18,584
Well, as we wrap up, one of the things I
try to do in almost all of my interviews
666
00:40:18,604 --> 00:40:24,084
is ask my guest if you could share some
wise words to yourself, either while
667
00:40:24,084 --> 00:40:29,844
you were in law school or preparing to
take the bar exam, what would you share
668
00:40:29,934 --> 00:40:33,904
with yourself that you wish you could
have kept in mind all those years ago?
669
00:40:34,695 --> 00:40:41,065
AJ Link: I would tell myself that I was
absolutely right to want to do my life
670
00:40:41,065 --> 00:40:47,665
and career my way, and that it was totally
okay to not listen to other people who
671
00:40:47,665 --> 00:40:49,615
didn't understand who I wanted to be.
672
00:40:50,185 --> 00:40:54,255
I didn't need that reassurance, but it'd
be nice to have it, and I would give
673
00:40:54,255 --> 00:40:58,975
that reassurance to anyone who needs
it, that it's totally okay to make your
674
00:40:58,985 --> 00:41:01,165
own career path, to do your own thing.
675
00:41:01,615 --> 00:41:05,665
It's not always easy and people
don't always understand or accept
676
00:41:05,665 --> 00:41:07,865
it, but it's more than okay.
677
00:41:07,915 --> 00:41:11,525
If you're doing something that no one
else is doing, it's totally okay to do
678
00:41:11,525 --> 00:41:13,385
that, and you should trust yourself.
679
00:41:13,545 --> 00:41:17,575
So, I would give myself the validation
of knowing that I made the right choices.
680
00:41:18,140 --> 00:41:19,660
Lee Burgess: That's awesome, I love that.
681
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:26,040
Well, AJ, thank you so much for
sharing your wisdom and talking
682
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:31,510
about the resources and the community
that students can find if they need
683
00:41:31,510 --> 00:41:35,070
help in this accommodations process
or advocating for themselves.
684
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,280
If listeners of this podcast are
interested in learning more about the
685
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,260
National Disabled Legal Professionals
Association, how can they learn more?
686
00:41:43,710 --> 00:41:47,740
AJ Link: So, we are still building
out all of our content type stuff.
687
00:41:47,790 --> 00:41:54,280
I do know that we are on Instagram
and Twitter, and I think LinkedIn,
688
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,590
being professionals and whatnot.
689
00:41:56,980 --> 00:42:06,310
You could definitely send us an
email - it's info@ndlpa.org or
690
00:42:06,860 --> 00:42:12,980
disabledlegalprofessionals@gmail.com,
I think are the emails.
691
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,290
You can also find me on LinkedIn
and I'm happy to link to
692
00:42:17,300 --> 00:42:19,530
resources or talk about anything.
693
00:42:20,210 --> 00:42:23,900
But yeah, hopefully we can have
the super awesome website and
694
00:42:23,900 --> 00:42:25,440
things like that coming up.
695
00:42:26,030 --> 00:42:27,860
One of the things about being
a new organization is you
696
00:42:27,860 --> 00:42:30,530
have to find the funding to do
all the infrastructure stuff.
697
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:34,980
So, once we have all that,
maybe I can link to a website
698
00:42:35,210 --> 00:42:37,190
whenever I do a future podcast.
699
00:42:37,605 --> 00:42:38,085
Lee Burgess: Perfect.
700
00:42:38,115 --> 00:42:42,845
Well, I do hope you'll come back because
I think there is so much to discuss here.
701
00:42:43,025 --> 00:42:44,765
And I appreciate your time.
702
00:42:45,025 --> 00:42:47,935
Clearly, you're very busy working
on a lot of important things, so
703
00:42:47,935 --> 00:42:51,995
it means a lot to me that you have
taken some time to speak with me and
704
00:42:51,995 --> 00:42:53,755
share your wisdom with our audience.
705
00:42:53,995 --> 00:42:56,245
I hope we get to have a
future conversation soon.
706
00:42:56,455 --> 00:42:57,335
AJ Link: Thank you so much.
707
00:42:57,335 --> 00:42:59,555
I would just say, I don't know
if they're important, but they're
708
00:42:59,555 --> 00:43:03,215
things I care about, and I think
that's the thing that gets me going.
709
00:43:03,975 --> 00:43:04,415
Lee Burgess: Awesome.
710
00:43:04,425 --> 00:43:07,335
Well, I think they're important
to a lot of people, so I think the
711
00:43:07,335 --> 00:43:08,535
work that you're doing is great.
712
00:43:09,585 --> 00:43:10,455
AJ Link: I appreciate that.
713
00:43:10,465 --> 00:43:11,635
Thank you so much, Lee.
714
00:43:12,375 --> 00:43:14,845
Lee Burgess: Thanks again
to SpacedRepetition.com
715
00:43:14,865 --> 00:43:16,665
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716
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00:43:44,356 --> 00:43:47,696
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724
00:43:48,026 --> 00:43:49,196
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