129: Poseidon Strength With Mark Small

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Peek behind the curtain of the Softly Training Lab with the Softly Performance Podcast.
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The pinnacle of human performance is out there, and we intend to find it.
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All right, welcome, welcome, Softly Podcast listeners, to the next Softly Performance Podcast.
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I'm your host, Coach G, and with me I've got Coach Matt, and we've got another guest today.
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We've got Mark Small of Poseidon Strength.
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Those of you who've been in the, let's say, tactical human performance segment, uh, at least from a practitioner standpoint, may be familiar with the stuff that they're putting out.
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This is essentially training modalities or equipment that's focused on isokinetics.
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And I don't want to digress too much as far as what is that if you don't know what I'm talking about or who is Poseidon's Strength, because that's that's why Mark is here.
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So, Mark, can you talk a little bit about what you do and what is Poseidon's Strength?
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Sure.
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And gee, Matt, again, thank you.
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We're uh we're thrilled and flattered to be included on the Soft Lee podcast and uh just excited to share with all of your uh subscribers and listeners who we are and what we do.
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So I think we're definitely somewhat new to the tactical space.
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We're making a little bit of a splash, but we joke that we're a company that's out there who wants to make isokinetics cool again.
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Um, so you know, I'm a mechanical engineer, and I think as most engineers, probably hyperanalytical, always want to optimize things, probably want to optimize some things that don't need to be optimized.
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But just as an engineer and somebody that always liked training and fitness, especially around the tactical space, when I got turned on to isokinetics, I just had a lot of questions.
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Like, if this is an advanced modality that gives you a better look into human performance, and it can, you know, you look at some of the NIH studies around the knee in the rehab realm as a way to make people stronger faster.
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The questions like, why hasn't it been more readily available to just functional training?
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And I think if I look at my background as an engineer, I spent a lot of time in manufacturing and heavy industry where there's very, you know, very complex solutions to very complex problems.
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And the more I was around training and especially the training I was doing, I'm like, you got a climbing rope, you got a sandbag, you got some iron, like you've had the same stuff for decades and decades and decades.
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And we just kind of found this opportunity to start a business that wanted to optimize things that needed to be optimized, especially around safety, just to, you know, to benefit the athlete and the tactician, whoever it is that's working out.
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So you mentioned uh sandbags and iron.
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So I suppose, Matt, and you probably are thinking the same thing for the audience.
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There's isometics, or isometics, isometrics, there's isotonic, and there I there's isokinetic.
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So, what are those things?
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And then you also mentioned how let's make it cool again.
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So I think Matt and I both understand why you said that.
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But what does that mean to the general listener?
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Is like, what do you mean cool again?
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Like, why is it not cool?
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Why was it not cool?
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Sure, is that for Matt or is that for me?
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That's for you.
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Okay, for me.
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Yeah, I mean, for isometrics, I think one of the most interesting quotes that a really well-known sport physical therapist ever shared with us is that an isometric movement is an isokinetic movement.
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Your velocity is just zero because in both of them you have constant velocity.
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So if your velocity is zero, that's an isometric movement.
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So I think that was like a big eye-opener.
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And it took us a minute of kind of like staring around a blank room processing that before we understood it.
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But, you know, just looking at how, you know, again, as an engineer that that kind of came to this space, we needed to get a crash course.
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We needed to meet people like Matt and Yuji and learn like what was important, what wasn't, you know, why does it matter?
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And as people that started out as big enthusiasts in isokinetics and then started talking to people like you guys, one thing that really amazed me was just the huge focus on isometrics and the conclusions that can be drawn from it, like rate of force development, muscular impulse.
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I'm looking at muscular endurance.
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How long can you hold a load?
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I know there's people out there even doing research on like just the vibration wave analysis of an isometric.
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And what does that say about muscular health?
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Like you can get pretty granular and pretty scientific from what you can do with an isometric.
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And again, that just further intrigued us as looking at an isokinetic as a type of isometric.
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It's almost like an isometric through the full range of motion, and then starting to analyze well, what can we do with the data that comes from an isokinetic back squat or an isokinetic bench press?
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What does that do?
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And what does that tell you?
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So, Mark, obviously we'll we'll make sure we have plenty of links to your products and stuff at the end, like in the in the show notes and at the end.
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But for listeners who maybe aren't kind of familiar, when I when I think isokinetics, I think like, so I studied sports science.
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My undergrad was way back in the day, like 2007, 2010.
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So when I think isokinetics, I remember this thing that was like the size of a garden shed, and you kind of strapped in almost like Frankenstein.
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And I remember like the sensation of my quad feeling like it was going to be ripped off the bone.
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How is that different to like what you guys are bringing with the side and strength?
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Yeah, that's a great question to tee us up to, you know, talk about the value that we serve.
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So I and just I think it might be helpful if I tell you a little bit of our story and how we evolved.
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Please, yeah.
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Yeah.
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As we, you know, as we started out as in a company that was, you know, big enthusiasts in isokinetics, we just jumped right to like, let's apply this to functional strength.
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So went up to my little like fab shop.
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We call it the ADL, the Advanced Development Laboratory, but that's kind of like putting lipstick on a pig.
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We built a squat bench and deadlift machine that was isokinetic with, you know, data output.
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And then took those on the road and met really good strength coaches in D1 programs, NFL programs, tactical community.
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And everybody looked at what we were doing in the exact same way.
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And they were like, you guys kind of took that big, I love that you said a garden shed.
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That's actually one of the largest things I've ever heard that machine compared to.
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But everybody looked at us and said, you know, everybody once had really adopted the open chain isokinetics.
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And then everybody kind of got away from it because it was so big, it was so time consuming, it was so expensive.
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You guys are kind of like somebody took everything that was wrong with that and optimized it into a machine.
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And they're like, however, we're not going to buy individual machines from you guys.
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This is a return to play, it's a return to duty, it's a return to duty tool.
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And that is where the industry saw our technology plugging in.
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So we knew what our assignment was then, and we went back to the drawing board.
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And what we rolled out is what we now sell, and we call it our force train tower.
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So, what that is is a highly versatile closed-chain isokinetic machine that allows you to do all your core movements, squat bench, deadlift, bend over row, overhead press.
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We get a little bit more granular now doing things like testing the soleus by doing just, you know, terminal dorsal flexion with the foot and then a calf raise.
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And I mean, again, one of the one of the funny things that we learned along the way is I think isometrics is so, you know, heavily relied upon that we were so excited that we had built this awesome isokinetic device.
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And then a lot of people in the industry said, Hey, can you do isometrics on this as well?
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So then we added that functionality.
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So just being able to like very quickly and very, you know, with a lot of versatility, apply isokinetic and isometric resistance and data output from all the movements I just mentioned.
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That's where we found a home run with that product.
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I feel like for those larger setups, like your kind of collegiate sport tactical where you've got a lot of people to run through.
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Like you've got 50, 100 people in a session to get through, be it testing or training or whatever.
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Like you're this is such a cliche term.
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Sorry, in terms of like a force multiplier, this thing's huge.
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Like you can just, there's there's no like messing around with, okay, well, that the bar's not quite set up to the right height, need to move the rack.
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You just can like bang people through because it it's so simple.
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Like the setup I mean.
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Yeah, we now have some D1 programs, some pretty well-known ones that are using that our product to baseline entire Olympic sport teams.
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And as we as we had a lot of conversations with professionals in the space, you know, we learned that the guys that were the slickest with setting up the open chain devices, if you were going to do ham quad ratios, you were probably still looking at 10 to 12 minutes an athlete.
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And we're running people through functional movements like single leg RDL, single leg squat, and we're doing those limb symmetry index analysis and that baseline of athletes in well under two minutes.
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So you're getting more functional data, you're getting closed chain, you're doing movements.
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And you know, you already said it where you strapped down and felt like your quad was going to explode.
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We we love, we've we've picked up so many good sayings from people like you guys, and now we're just rebranding them as ours, but really we got them from the industry.
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But one is like training is the test, the test is training.
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So, like if you're RDLing and squatting, that's how we wanted to deliver the test.
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So you're used to doing it, it's not a new movement, you're not putting a seatbelt on, it's what you're doing with your barbell.
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So, just to paint a really clear picture for listeners, what Matt and Mark are talking about, there's machines, specifically the brand I keep thinking of, the SUMAC, where, like Matt said, you're strapped down, it's focused on one joint.
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So, quad strength, for example.
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So your leg is immobilized essentially.
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And in addition to that, so isotonic resistance is like your traditional resistance machine in the gym, the big box gym.
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It's using masts, using plates.
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Isokinetics are regulating the speed.
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That's why an isometric is a speed of zero.
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So think of it like you're strapping down your leg, it's very immobilized.
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You're only allowed to bend your knee in a certain way, and it's gonna measure or rather limit your speed to a certain speed, and it'll change the load accordingly.
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Mark, can you talk about that?
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Why is that good to have you mentioned the word functional.
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Why is it okay to have this machine?
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Why wasn't it around before?
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I'm I think I know the answer, but I would love to hear from you.
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Like, why is it good to have isokinetics with these global movements that you've talked about?
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Sure.
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Where we really find value in the whole conversation around a company like Humac or the open chain isokinetics is really a fascinating one for us.
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Um, because many physical therapists, they need that isolated data.
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And we do not, we do not make any strides as a business to replace that.
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So, I mean, there is value in just understanding quad strength or hamstring strength, but it is time consuming.
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Where we provide value is if you look at a lot of you know rehab protocols, there you might not start doing any, like you just did a great job of explaining what isotonic is.
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You might not do an isotonic back squat until months into your rehab.
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With the safety that we deliver from functional isokinetics, we can slide that functional training movement from the rehab scale up pretty far so that now the day an ortho clears you to pull, you're back squatting on our machine.
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And what that allows us to do is take time off the back of the rehab.
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The other reason that matters is because what we learned as we started navigating a lot of these conversations with different universities and pro teams was the open chain was just so cumbersome and time consuming they gave up on it.
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So it wasn't something that they were investing time in anymore.
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Ours was so quick that now, if you can gather that baseline data, if you have any problem, you know, maybe somebody just has a little soft tissue, you know, injury going on, or maybe it is post-op rehab, you have that gold standard to compare them to what they look like pre-injury.
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So that's the huge focus on the baselining.
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And I think that's something we're noticing from very forward-thinking programs is sports science is really becoming like the nucleus of a program where they're getting that baseline data, they're working with strength, they're the keeper of all that data.
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And then sports science is also working with sports medicine whenever there's an injury to make sure that from a data, you know, data-driven standpoint that that athlete is exactly what they were or better than before they were injured.
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You mentioned like how the kind of the terminology of like training is a testing, testing is the training.
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I think like that's something that's so valuable from like a with all sport, but particularly within tactical, where we we maybe need to have, we can touch on kind of that constant readiness, if you like, as a term later on, but where you can't really afford to have, okay, well, we've scheduled from the 4th of May, this is going to be a testing week, and then we're gonna get into a training block because you might have something crazy happen on the week before.
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But if you can like constantly collect data within your training sessions, it's so much less disruptive.
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And I think having that having that ability with products like yours where you can you can kind of literally close the loop every session, like that's that's unreal.
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That's such a cool thing to have access to.
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And I was just gonna ask, like, what does that does that back end side of things look like, like the data analysis?
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Sure.
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That was an area we focused a lot on because we just understand the different softwares in the space can be cumbersome.
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So the the four-strain tower that we sell has an onboard touchscreen PC.
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Everything will live on that, and then we have APIs that can export data into any athlete management system, or you can do whatever you want with our raw data too.
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So very simple user setup where you pick, you know, the the individual you're working with, what the movement is, what the velocity is, and then you hit start, and we're just graphing all your metrics in real time.
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So the higher the output, you know, the more force that's registered.
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And that was another thing that we learned is you know, for an athlete, there might be a feedback loop where you don't get results in like for a day or two, right?
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Like if you're using things that are Bluetooth enabled, you might not know.
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Like you have that testing day, and then you find out a day or two later what that means.
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So that's why we found it very important to have that onboard computer and touch screen.
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So the second you're done doing a test and you hit stop, you're seeing your result versus your best and your last.
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And that's very deliberate for quite a few reasons.
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One is the immediacy, and then two is also so that maybe you just, I mean, that that's one of the interesting things about isokinetics.
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It's all just about your max effort.
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So maybe you didn't do your max and then you see I'm not as strong as I was last week, but that makes no sense because I'm better rested, I ate better, you know, I'm better recovered.
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So you can not destroy your data and just do a quick retest and then try harder.
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So we tried to give all the tools to the practitioner and the user to just make it as an effective machine as possible.
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Yeah, that's really exciting.
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You have me wondering on like, have you seen or observed or have have any teams reported back to you as saying, like, hey, it's it's pulled this up as a kind of a red flag for an athlete?
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I'm wondering if you've gotten reports of, yeah, we we pulled this athlete because he was about to break on the field, something like that.
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I'm just curious.
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Sure.
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And I think from a business standpoint, that whole injury prevention is like the holy grail of the realm that we live in.
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But we're also so blessed to have some of what I would consider to be like real thought leaders in the sport physical therapy space as friends of ours.
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And if you bring that kind of topic up with them, they're like, don't do that, stay away from that.
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So I was like, yeah, yeah.
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We we do not make any claims like that.
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I think like right away, a really interesting case study we got last summer, we installed with a local Pennsylvania-based Division I football program.
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And they had an athlete who on field at full hip, at full hip extension, was complaining about hamstring pain.
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And the program was just having a hard time getting the data to support what the injury was.
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So they were trying to better understand it.
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And when we had installed whatever it was like five or six days earlier, we talked about using RDL for hamstrings.
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They said, let's try that.
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And it was such an interesting case study for us because what it showed was depending where you looked at from a limb symmetry index analysis for single-leg RDL, the athlete is able to get to the same peak force through an RDL, but through the full range of motion, you were looking at a 40% strength deficiency and also a dramatic difference in RDL.
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So they were like, boom, there it is.
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So I don't like we're not today using our data to say, like, oh, if you see this, this is a potential, but we are using it so that if somebody's like, someone just doesn't quite feel right today, it's like, let's test that functionally.
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Okay, dude, you're 40% strength deficient as an average force measure.
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Like, there's something going on.
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And that's also where our machine shines is now with isometrics.
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We have different MVIC and target modes where you can just get right into isometric loading.
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So, I mean, I think as an industry outsider, I thought maybe be a little bit different.
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But as we again, as we got to know some good sport physical therapists and athletic trainers, they're like, park them where it hurts and load isometrically, like do what feels comfortable.
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And again, we shine there because we're just giving people that immediate feedback.
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What does it look like compared to the healthy limb?
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What does it look like compared to yesterday?
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I was gonna say that's that's huge, I think, especially in the the kind of the rehab world with the having the feedback from isometrics.
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Because, like, yeah, it it's so it's so hard to quantify that unless you have that that objective measure.
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But then once you've got that, that's immediate buy-in because you can you can see progress, you can see the deficiencies.
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So I think that that sounds like such a small part of it, but that's massive.
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Sorry, G, I cut you off.
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No, so I'm just trying to imagine because I know for a lot of listeners, they don't know what isokinetic resistance feels like.
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What I was thinking of was uh a smart bike trainer.
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So anybody who has a smart bike smart bike trainer knows what I'm talking about.
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If you're doing an FTP test or you're doing any kind of, let's say, prescribed interval and it wants 180 watts from you, you might start pedaling fast to make the bike feel easier, but then it'll adjust the resistance accordingly to make it 200 watts.
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Or if you start going slower, it'll adjust the resistance to get 200 watts.
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So if you have a smart bike trainer, I feel like isokinetics probably feels something like that.
00:16:56.720 --> 00:16:59.759
But Mark, I'm curious, because I mean it's your it's your baby.
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:07.200
Can you tell the listener what isokinetic resistance feels like in comparison to isotonic?
00:17:07.279 --> 00:17:08.720
Like what and why does that matter?
00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:13.279
Why, why, I feel like it's important for them to know it's just not another mode of resistance.
00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:16.559
It's it's a it's a little more subtle than that as far as perception.
00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:19.519
Yeah, I mean, it almost feels like an enemy or like you know an adversary.
00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:24.000
It's like you try to you try to move it faster and it just doesn't go faster.
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:26.960
And I think that challenges everything in the way we're programmed.
00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:30.559
Like if you're moving something and you apply more force, it should move faster.
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:37.279
And the fact that isokinetic resistance just instantaneously doesn't move faster allows you to make more force.
00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:52.960
And just in all of our different trade show and conference journeys and demos, I mean, we we travel the country in two demo vans and we've learned so many things just from trade shows where it's very common where, say, you have somebody that, you know, can back squat, I'll just say 315 pounds.
00:17:53.119 --> 00:18:07.440
They'll come out of the hole at 315, they might build to like 450, 500 the first time they do an isokinetic back squat, and we'll let them do five reps and then we're like, we explain what all the data means, and we're like, nobody's training at that top band of a back squat because it doesn't make any sense.
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:12.160
Like if anything, you get made fun of if you're just up there, like, you know, barely dropping from vertical.
00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:20.960
And we're like, so we want you to drive as hard as you can at the top of your back squat, and somebody will immediately put two to 300 pounds on the very top of their back squat.
00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:24.880
So coming out of the hole at 315, but now they're building to 750.
00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:31.759
And that's what immediately in the early days just drew me to isokinetic resistance is like, what are all the effects of that in a back squat?
00:18:31.839 --> 00:18:41.119
Like now you're training under such higher force on the musculoskeletal system, just the central nervous system to be firing and creating that much force through the full range of motion.
00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:46.079
So that's one of the things that you know that we see, but it is definitely very experiential.
00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:49.599
So just letting people see what it feels like is, you know, hence the two.
00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:57.599
So if you, I guess kind of as a as an extension of that, if you um okay, so you you come into my so I'm I'm also a volunteer firefighter.
00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:09.200
So you've uh you've come into our fire hall and you've you've put one unit in, two, like how would you say 50 guys, how uh how many kind of how many units would you suggest for that that sort of number of people?
00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:13.119
Getting to 50 is like the one to two sweet spot where you start looking into two.
00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:13.759
Sweet.
00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:16.000
So so you've you've come in, you've you've put two units in.
00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:18.160
Like where what day what does day one look like?
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:21.839
Is that kind of all we're doing, or is that like is that part of a session?
00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:28.079
Like what what does it kind of look like in terms of integrating that into a integrating your stuff into a a training plan?
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:29.680
Yeah, so great question.
00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:34.000
Uh so as far as our force train tower, tactical is a little bit new to us.
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:35.920
So we're mainly on the athletic side.
00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:41.039
Okay one would typically look like training staff to use it as a baselining tool with teams.
00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:45.119
And then again, with sports med for the return to play and comparing data.
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:49.599
So baselining is is a big thing, just baselining to understand strength.
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:53.759
Um, and then also using it as a tool to do training like overcoming isometrics.
00:19:53.920 --> 00:20:00.079
So you look at the setup for that, we're a fraction of the time, and then you can just park people and train isometrically.
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:04.240
So that that's been an interesting journey for us because hence the name Poseidon Strength.
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:06.880
In the early days, we thought we were a strength training company.
00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:09.200
The industry said this is a return to play tool.
00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:16.160
You belong in sports medicine, with the direction I mentioned earlier with sports science kind of being the nucleus of a lot of programs.
00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:19.279
Sports science got wind of what we were doing and how efficient it was.
00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:24.799
And now we have our first D1 football program where the strength coach was like, look at the benefits of this.
00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:26.319
Let's get it into some programming.
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:28.400
So it took us two years, but we've kind of come.
00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:29.279
Yeah, absolutely.
00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:32.400
That was something I saw actually in your on your website talking about.
00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:39.279
I I do quite a lot of overcoming ISOs myself, but I do it on the cheap with like a like a safety bar or like some weird set with a with a straight bar.
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:44.720
Having the having the safety factor built in where it's not gonna bury you if you if you miss the lift.
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:48.079
That's that's like enough of a reason for me to be, yeah, I'm in.
00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:48.880
Yeah.
00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:50.480
That's yeah, that's cool.
00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:51.759
How so how does that work?
00:20:52.079 --> 00:21:07.119
So for again for for listeners, if I'm doing maybe like an an overcoming ISO, it might be say I'm trying to hold an inch or so, hold a straight bar, an inch or so off my chest at the bottom of a bench press with a weight that like I can't hold for more than say, we'll use five, ten seconds at this point.
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:08.480
So I'm trying to hold that position.
00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:13.359
Eventually I'm gonna fail and drop the bar to my to the pins, ideally not straight onto my chest.
00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:15.359
That would be how you do like a conventional setup.
00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:17.920
What would something look like for that with uh with you guys?
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:23.759
Yeah, that's I mean, as a business, like everything we want to do is around optimizing with a focus on safety.
00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:43.279
So if you do overcoming ISOs on our four-strain tower, we deliberately build in on like hysteresis into the movement, meaning that from you can pull the bar down with almost nothing in that mode, and then you could apply, you know, for some like I want to say you apply 450 pounds, and if at any second you stop, there is zero stored energy in the system.
00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:45.119
So it's just completely relaxed.
00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:45.839
There's nothing there.
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:48.400
So you're really just you're your own worst enemy.
00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:50.400
Like you're just driving against what you're capable of.
00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:52.000
And if you stop, there is nothing there.
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:53.279
Yeah, that's phenomenal.
00:21:53.599 --> 00:22:01.839
As an aside, I remember I had the privilege when I was an intern, for when no longer an intern, I was a young coach, and I had the Opportunity to go to Westside Barbell.
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:08.000
And the man himself, Louis Simmons, took me around and he he he showed me everything, and including a machine that he was working on.
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:11.759
There was essentially a sexy Smith machine with air resistance.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:19.279
And he could hit a button, one of those that, like, you know, stops or or uh allows for air pressure to build, and uh you couldn't move.
00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:21.279
So now you're doing an isometric.
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:29.599
But that device was so complicated, it required a second person, you know, to activate what you're describing just sounds so much easier.
00:22:29.839 --> 00:22:31.279
Yeah, it's very easy to use.
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:37.680
So, Mark, you you kind of talked before about how um you've predominantly come from the sport world.
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:40.079
What's your like step across into tactical look like?
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:41.920
That was a great question.
00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:54.480
I guess I could kind of just tell you guys the story of how we came to be as Poseidon, because that's a little bit of a, I'd say, I'd like to think it's interesting and maybe atypical, but really the whole company came to exist from some time I spent working up in Alaska.
00:22:54.640 --> 00:23:01.279
So I was working for like a remote outfitter in the Kodiak Islands and then was fortunate enough to jump on some different crabbers and salmon boats.
00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:10.400
And whenever I was on the crabbers, anybody that's listening that saw like has seen the deadliest catch, they just use a block with a hydraulic motor that pulls crab pots up off the bottom of the ocean.
00:23:10.559 --> 00:23:19.839
So in my travels up there, I got to meet a lot of really cool entrepreneurs and just decided, like by the time I was in my mid-20s, I want to go back to Pennsylvania, try to start some company.
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:29.680
So came home, started working in running a freight rail laboratory of all things, where we were just doing like very, very high levels of energy attenuation with very small components.
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:35.119
And then one night I saw an Instagram video of Troy Palmalu training in the offseason on pneumatic resistance.
00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:36.160
And I'm like, that's cool.
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:38.559
I'm working with like stuff that's kind of similar to that.
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:39.599
I wonder what I could do.
00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:48.160
And somehow I put together what I was doing in this freight rail lab and then a crab pot puller from the Bering Sea together and was like, we could build an endless rope climber.
00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:51.759
So, like right before COVID hit, I had these prototypes that was just that.
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:52.880
It's an endless rope climber.
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:54.559
So it was, it was isokinetic.
00:23:54.640 --> 00:24:00.160
So no matter what the user weighed, the rope would feed one rate, and it was just a rope you could climb forever and not get anywhere.
00:24:00.319 --> 00:24:10.559
And then very foolishly going into COVID, you know, everybody we called like in whatever it was, like June of 2020, was like, do not call me again unless you're selling Corox bleach.
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:13.839
So we were like, darn, like this product's a dud.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:15.519
We just got the wrong message.
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:17.920
So we were like, all right, back burner that.
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:22.799
And then we we always I'd always had this grander vision of doing functional isokinetics.
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:26.240
So built the early prototypes, went on the road, how we discussed.
00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:30.799
And then like Wake Forest was our number one customer, and we'll forever be in their debt for that.
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:34.640
And then things just kind of started snowballing there with the Force Train Tower.
00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:38.960
Um, and then last summer, my business partner was like, Hey, I'm gonna do something with some of the ropes we have.
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:40.319
I'm like, all right, do what you want.
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:46.079
So we gave one to a pretty prominent wrestling strength coach, got half a million views overnight with this rope.
00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:57.039
And then a week later, I was at a local facility in Harrisburg where there just happened to be a pretty well-known former Delta operator going through a this program using our force train tower.
00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:01.359
And he just interrupted me and said, Why are you not telling me about this infinity rope you guys sell?
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:02.480
And I'm like, You saw that?
00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:06.880
Like, I didn't know anybody was, you know, even going to our website at that time and uh, let alone him.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:12.000
And he was like, I think, you know, whenever I was still in down at Bragg, I did a good bit with human performance.
00:25:12.079 --> 00:25:16.799
And he's like, Grip strength is just one of the things that can be such a weakness in the tactical community.
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:20.640
He's like, You very well may have like the grip strength training tool.
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:23.759
So that like that really turned us on to tactical.
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:30.720
And from a lot of our athletics travels, we had made some really good friendships and connections on the, you know, on the tactical front.
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:33.599
So right away we just started calling people like, hey, we have this.
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:35.599
They're like, well, get us one down for a pilot.
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:40.160
And a lot of those have led from where people got one and then they come back and buy like 10 more.
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:42.720
So when you brought up fire, that's what we're doing.
00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:45.359
Like, fire's been good to us with our infinity rope.
00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:47.759
And we've got Marines, Army, Navy.
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:49.599
Hopefully, we'll get the Air Force too.
00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:52.640
So we're just really growing the market around our infinity rope.
00:25:52.799 --> 00:26:03.200
But then from a business standpoint, for us, it's just been an interesting, like kind of conversation opener, which then usually gives us the opportunity to show people what we do with our force train tower in the tactical side.
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:06.799
And that's exactly what happened for me down at Quantico with the Marine Corps.
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:09.039
So they were an early adopter of the rope.
00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:10.240
I started showing up.
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:12.160
We'd always have a force-trained tower.
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:15.200
The more people got to try it, they were like, this is different.
00:26:15.359 --> 00:26:17.599
Like, I had no idea this is what it was going to feel like.
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:20.480
Like I almost cringe you when you were like, explain what it feels like.
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:25.039
I'm like, we've been trying for two to three years to say that verbally.
00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:29.119
And I think I still am just, I still sound like an engineer when I try to describe it.
00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:30.079
Like it's not good.
00:26:30.319 --> 00:26:42.160
But um, no, like the Marine Corps uh should be one of our first customers here this summer with a force-trained tower on the tactical side, and they're gonna use it to baseline squat bench, deadlift, overhead press, and Ben Over Row.
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:47.599
So just a great, you know, just because they want that data on a huge anthropometric group of Marines.
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:49.759
So really cool opportunity for us.
00:26:49.920 --> 00:26:56.240
And then another, another like overlap, just to answer your question here, Matt, like into the tactical space.
00:26:56.400 --> 00:27:05.759
We had met Doc through our travels, and we always heard how much of a pain it could be to do like the one rep max or the three rep max deadlift test in the tactical community.
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:14.400
And early, you know, early people from the tactical space that saw our tech were like, this would be the way to test the deadlift because injury, not gonna happen.
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:17.440
It's only you can't you can't do something that your body can't do, right?
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:20.480
Like you're creating your own resistance in a in a sense.
00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:21.839
So when we met Dr.
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:35.599
Fry, we ended up giving him a deadlift, and I think it was just last week, he just put a paper out on comparing an isotonic barbell, like one rep max deadlift to an isokinetic, and how that data could be predictive of what your barbell could look like.
00:27:35.759 --> 00:27:44.640
So that's a cool step for us as a business to just start looking at how we could be a more efficient, safer way to do the type of testing that's required in the tactical space.
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:49.279
Oh, you can even have it be, it doesn't have to be this group PT thing.
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:53.920
You can have your uh whoever you're testing come in at different times.
00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:56.880
Like you don't have to do the group warm-up and all that stuff.
00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:03.519
Like I if the unit is autonomous enough, theoretically speaking, because you can't cheat the bar, you know, it's a machine.
00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:10.480
From from like personal experience of so I I was Royal Air Force before we moved to the States.
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:12.160
So you so you'd be in that exact position.
00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:20.400
You you'd have like some some uh doctrine or paper come down where predominantly with aircrew, they're saying, Yeah, yeah, for air crew, like it makes complete sense.
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:22.480
We need to need to through rep maxim on everything.
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:25.839
So we've got this data, and like the stronger they are, probably the better they'll fly.
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:27.039
We need to prove this.
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:30.000
And you're like, Yeah, yeah, I completely get the theory.
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:30.640
That makes sense.
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:34.319
But this guy has never touched a barbell before, and you want me to through rep max him.
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:35.279
But but now you can.
00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:36.319
Now now you've got that.
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:40.319
Yeah, it was that was, you know, we've had a lot of eye-openers along our journey here.
00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:46.720
And one for me was just you can dig up a lot of different federally funded studies around soldiers and strength testing.
00:28:46.799 --> 00:28:49.759
And like you can read the just you know, the opening paragraph.
00:28:49.920 --> 00:29:02.160
It's like the study was conducted, started with 560 male, you know, participants and was concluded with 502 because this many were injured doing the dead, and you're like, oh my gosh, like it's right here, like it's hurting people.
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:06.160
Like, but you know, you also you need to understand you know human strength potential.
00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:10.960
So I think that's just a great interlude for us where you know we can do that very safely.
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:13.279
I'm really intrigued with the with the infinity rope as well.
00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:15.039
So I didn't realize that was your first product.
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:19.920
Yeah, most people don't, but that's actually because of kind of like the order in which we grew the customer base.
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:20.160
Yeah.
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:24.160
But yeah, that's where it all started as a business was just with our small infinity rope.
00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:24.720
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:30.000
And and um, and again, we'll we'll kind of make sure there's links and stuff so people can see what you're you're describing, what you're talking about.
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:32.079
And I remember I was talking to G about this offline.
00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:42.480
I remember the last unit I was at, uh, it was a a rehab, like a rehab facility, a rehab gym, and and we had like what kind of sounds like a poor cousin to what you developed.
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:48.799
And it was uh it it was kind of like sitting down on a bench and you you pulled you pulled the rope like horizontally rather than climbed it.
00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:52.319
I remember thinking it could be so cool if it was done properly.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:59.920
And like I never used it because you could never load it enough or um like you just never the idea was great, but it never worked properly.
00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:06.480
But that that that kind of problem is obviously solved with something like solved, I should say, with something like the Infinity rope because you're actually climbing.
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:11.680
Yeah, we get so many light bulb moments where people are like, oh, wait, wait, wait, you can actually climb this one.
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:13.440
And we're like, you can climb it.
00:30:13.519 --> 00:30:20.880
And we it was very important to us to, you know, as directly replicate the rope climbing experience as we possibly could.
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:27.440
So our unit just goes up in the air because there's never been a human performance space that has too much of a f like floor space.
00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:28.720
I always joke about that.
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:30.960
So we occupy zero floor space.
00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:35.519
It is a three-strand rope, it's inch and a half, and you can climb it and knock it anywhere.
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:36.400
So yeah, that's cool.
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:38.319
And where whereabouts have you put those in?
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:43.759
Like what kind of you don't necessarily need to name names, what kind of facilities are you are you supplying with with those?
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:46.319
Yeah, I mean, our immediate home for that was wrestling.
00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:49.440
And then we partnered with some rack manufacturers.
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:55.279
So we've developed like, or I should say our partners have developed arms where the rope can just plug into a rack.
00:30:55.599 --> 00:30:57.119
We've got ceiling mounts.
00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:08.480
We've gotten into certain scenarios where like we had uh we had an army base that was really interested, but they were in an old hanger with a 40-foot ceiling, and just dropping a chain from 40 feet does not make a lot of sense.
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:16.160
So different scenarios like that, we ended up rolling out what we call the infinity rope rig, which is a tower, kind of looks like a shepherd's hook.
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:27.279
Uh, we have it on our website, but it supports mounting the rope, like hanging the rope from the rig, and then you just bolt into the floor, and it's still a very small footprint, and then you can, you know, daisy chain those together.
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:31.599
So we just keep getting more and more, you know, creative with where we can mount them.
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:33.759
Um, we have some living outdoors.
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:41.519
Um, there's some other manufacturers in the space that make some pretty nice just little towers to hang climbing ropes from, and we plug in extremely well there.
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:45.200
You take the climbing rope down, you hang an infinity rope, and you're up and running.
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:45.519
Yeah.
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:46.720
Yeah, so versatile.
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:47.279
That's great.
00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:47.680
Yeah.
00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:52.799
I wonder, like, you know, how how many of us have climbed the rope and your goal is to touch the top of it, right?
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:55.599
You've got the bell, you've got whatever the target you're supposed to touch.
00:31:55.759 --> 00:32:00.079
So, how do you measure success or completion with the rope?
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:01.839
I mean, is it is it a time thing?
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:02.960
Like, can you tell us about that?
00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:04.319
It's when you run out of tears.
00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:04.799
Yeah.
00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:06.799
Yeah, you just come off.
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:08.640
It's a great question.
00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:14.559
And we did really want to leave it completely um just zero power requirement whatsoever.
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:19.519
So with it having just the ability to live outside, be beat on, you know, the Marines always joke with us.
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:23.359
They're like, yeah, give us the first one, and if it can be broken, we'll do it immediately.
00:32:23.519 --> 00:32:25.759
So we really just wanted it to be a tough product.
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:34.400
So our simple solution to that with it being isokinetic is once you set a speed, which speed goes everywhere from zero to six, zero being like it's barely moving.
00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:41.039
So if you set it to a three, you can have people say, okay, climb for as long as you can on three, and then compare time.
00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:50.079
And then if you want to know climbing distance, because there are certain people that still use the 30-foot rope on the O course, we can make a 30-foot rope that has a color band on it.
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:54.640
So if you start from that band and you climb one rotation, you just went 30 feet.
00:32:54.799 --> 00:33:00.400
So pretty not very sexy solution, but just a simple one, like you know, yeah, that's exactly what you need.
00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:00.799
Yeah.
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:01.279
Yeah.
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:04.319
If I was fiddling with an app, I would get frustrated.
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:04.799
Yeah.
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:11.200
It's really funny, you know, like all the conversation and questions we had around our four-strain tower, like the big isochinetic tech.
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:17.759
The rope was kind of funny because our first market being wrestling there, uh, like we got into Penn State Wrestling in West Virginia.
00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:22.400
And as soon as we would install it, wrestling or strength coach would go get wrestlers and be like, try it.
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:23.440
They'd be like, What is this?
00:33:23.519 --> 00:33:25.680
And they'd be like, It's a fucking rope, climb it.
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:29.519
So, like, it's like that was the narrative was like, climb the rope.
00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:35.359
And it just became like such an easy, you know, an easy demo as opposed to like, you know, it's got immediate feedback.
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:35.920
It has an A.
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:38.559
So we'll always laugh about that with the rope that it's a person.
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:43.039
Oh man, that's that's working with athletes versus being a personal trainer, I think, oftentimes.
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:44.799
It's like, it's a fucking rope, man.
00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:45.680
Figure it out.
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:46.240
Yeah.
00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:47.599
That's awesome.
00:33:47.839 --> 00:33:48.240
Yeah.
00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:55.839
So, so what is as far as I feel like there are two different questions for your tower versus the infinity rope.
00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:58.240
What's exciting about both categories for you?
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:00.480
I feel like we kind of talked about that, but I'm curious.
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:12.480
I think what like for us, what's really exciting about the infinity rope, and I'll be totally transparent and honest here, was that it was almost a product that we had written off and kind of were like, man, I can't believe we put all that time and energy into that.
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:20.480
So, what's really exciting about that is just seeing people like really quickly adopting it and then getting one and then coming back for 10 more.
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:23.360
And it's like for us, that's the proof that people love it.
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:27.840
Like we just had three wrestlers that all graduated from a D1 program.
00:34:28.079 --> 00:34:35.760
They're all now involved in different club wrestlings, and they they had one at their facility, and all three of them reached out and were like, hey, can we get a quote for one of those infinity?
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:37.760
And we're like, the dog will eat the dog food.
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:38.960
Like these guys love it.
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:46.639
And I think, you know, I said early on in the conversation, as an engineer, engineers want to optimize things, and sometimes they don't need to be optimized.
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:49.519
And I don't want to be doing things if they don't need to be done.
00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:52.719
Like, I don't want to sell something that's gonna collect dust in the corner.
00:34:52.880 --> 00:35:01.360
So, what really excites me about the infinity rope is just seeing people love it, seeing people come back for more of them, or you know, they go to a different gym and now I have to have one.
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:07.360
And I think the other thing that really excites me with both products, so I guess I'll use it as the interlude, is just the safety.
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:18.960
I mean, we put a rope in on a base, and the day before we installed it last December, a female soldier fell from the top of a 30-foot rope and suffered a very severe ankle fracture.
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:22.480
I am in no way saying that we could have prevented that.
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:33.039
I'm not gonna say that, but we are viewed as a tool that will help train people to prevent that in the future, as a tool to help safely learn it, to, you know, build the grip strength to hold yourself.
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:36.480
If maybe that first foothold slips, you're not just plummeting down.
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:38.800
So again, are we gonna totally prevent all those?
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:44.639
I'm not here to make that claim, but I do think we're a tool that will help, you know, just make people stronger for the event.
00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:57.840
And then on the force train tower side, I think what has been exciting us and is gonna continue to excite us was just to see how we really um, I think it was very important as a business to really find the initial value, which was in sports medicine.
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:03.039
And now to see all of the different routes and avenues that we're going with it is so exciting.
00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:17.920
Like you start with some early adopters in the sports med because we can do limb symmetry index analysis and an earlier return to functional force output to fast forward a year and a half, and now it's on a football floor in a D1 weight room, and it's like, let's get people training on this.
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:19.280
It's a better modality.
00:36:19.440 --> 00:36:23.360
You know, there's there's tremendous benefits to training with this type of resistance.
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:24.800
So, like I mentioned what Dr.
00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:34.960
Fry did, a great guy, and that just took him a long time to be able to get the machine, do the research, where now we have our first study in regard to the tactical space and functional isokinetics.
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:37.440
So I think that's what excites us, and just the people.
00:36:37.599 --> 00:36:39.920
Like the people in the space are tremendous.
00:36:40.079 --> 00:36:47.199
Um, there's a group that I met that it's just a kind of some odd connections, and they're like, hey, why don't we do a grip strength study for you guys?
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:54.880
Like one of them's in a university setting, one's running a lab for the Marine Corps, and then a couple of people I know are in the Marines, you know, doing human performance.
00:36:55.039 --> 00:37:00.800
They're like, we could all get together and do a study around the benefits of it with some handheld dynamometry and then your rope.
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:02.480
And I'm like, dude, I'm I love that.
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:06.480
Like, we're all for that, just seeing what are the effects of the things that we're doing.
00:37:06.800 --> 00:37:30.480
I think from a maybe kind of zooming out from a slightly bigger picture perspective, I think the fact that you're so easily able to kind of connect the dots between the sports med, rehab world, performance, and sports science, like research, data collection, the fact that you're able to kind of link those worlds together, like that, that has to be how we evolve as an industry, is is by kind of better communication rather than just more and more siloing.
00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:37.920
So if we can kind of share data and and stuff like that between those worlds, your return to play is going to get better, you're gonna be potentially less likely to get injured.
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:41.760
I know we have to be a little bit careful with saying that, but it's that's a very real possibility.
00:37:42.000 --> 00:37:47.920
And then you can close the loop on that by figuring out the whys with the with the sports science and analytics side of things.
00:37:48.079 --> 00:37:49.039
Yeah, super excited.
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:58.000
I think yeah, I think what like excites me more than anything, just as a you know, where we are today, was in the early days, I was your typical engineer that was like, I have a good idea.
00:37:58.079 --> 00:37:58.880
And I didn't.
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:04.800
And uh, but we went out and met people like Matt and G who were like, this is cool, but not the way you're looking at it.
00:38:04.880 --> 00:38:15.039
And like my business partner and I just hit this crossroads where it was like we very quick, very quickly realized like we could die on our sword and it wasn't going to be pretty, or we could be like, it's time to listen.
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:19.599
And I think, you know, by listening to people like you guys, we just the network grew.
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:28.960
It was like, you know, we had people that were making introductions for us with the opening, like, hey, these guys are willing to listen, which, you know, I think that was interesting to see that that was what was important to people.
00:38:29.039 --> 00:38:36.000
And now that's what really excites us is we've gotten to a point where as we have, you know, one, we've had people come to us and ask us to build them solutions.
00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:42.079
And two, we're at a point where if we have an idea, we can call a Matt and a G and a lot of other people and be like, What do you think about this?
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:46.480
And then you just get a crash course in, you know, what matters, why does it matter?
00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:50.159
And we just want to keep growing, evolving, innovating, and optimizing.
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:50.639
Right.
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:52.480
I have two big questions.
00:38:52.719 --> 00:39:04.960
First question So for the average listener who maybe yet does not have access to Poseidon Strength or Isokinetics in general, like a Humac I know is financially irresponsible for me to go get one of those.
00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:06.480
So, what can I do at home?
00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:14.639
Because this is the thing about isokinetics that I think a lot of practitioners, and I'm including myself in this, like, we are limited because so much of it is dependent on tech.
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:22.639
So, your device, one that I mentioned the first time we spoke, the humac, like, I can't do those things in my garage necessarily.
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:28.239
So, do you have any guidance for people listening that want to know more or from an experiential standpoint?
00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:34.000
How do they mimic some of the benefits of isokinetics if they don't have access to the tech?
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:36.000
Sure, great question.
00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:38.719
And uh yeah, I'll kind of give a two-part answer to that.
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:45.360
One, we are always scouring the country in two demo vans, and we're we've we're at a cool spot where we've had vans in.
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:51.679
I was coming through Iowa, and another one of our guys was coming through uh Alabama and we got a call from somebody and they were like, What are you doing?
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:54.639
And we're like, Oh my gosh, you saw us, and we got to hang out.
00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:56.639
So we always love a surprise demo.
00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:58.960
So if anybody wants to experience it, let us know.
00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:04.559
We also have good partners across the country now where if you want to experience what our products feel like, let us know.
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:07.599
And we'll try to plug into someone, you know, locally to give it a shot.
00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:11.360
And then that this is a that this is a great and challenging question.
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:17.920
I think I come back to that really fascinating connection, gee, between isometrics and isokinetics.
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:25.519
And I find ourselves in our home gym, which we've got the simple rack, we've got the sandbags, and then we've got the two fancy isokinetic machines.
00:40:25.599 --> 00:40:27.519
So it makes no sense whatsoever.
00:40:27.760 --> 00:40:31.599
But we still found ourselves doing more and more isometrics just in the value of them.
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:37.280
I had a really good athletic trainer out in Iowa one time tell me he loves doing 60-second isometric holds.
00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:38.960
And we were like, we gotta try that.
00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:42.000
And then, like, any staircase was my enemy for a week.
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:48.480
So I mean, just doing things like I think that would be my answer is we just found our like the value in and doing more isometrics.
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:56.480
That I I can say from from our side of things, that's a huge mainstay in our programming, massively influenced by people like Keith Barr and and those guys, like Latero.
00:40:56.800 --> 00:41:02.159
Yeah, I I feel ice isometrics almost can't not be in your your programming nowadays nowadays.
00:41:02.239 --> 00:41:04.400
And I know it's kind of in the zeitgeist a little bit.
00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:07.599
Yeah, I I completely I completely agree.
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:09.119
Like the value in there is is huge.
00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:19.679
I think one of the reasons that I fell in love with it was just, you know, I had a very forward-thinking member from the sports medicine community one time say, you know, as somebody in sports medicine, my medicine is load.
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:21.440
Like my medicine is weight.
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:24.559
And they were like, you know, so I need to know how to dose it.
00:41:24.639 --> 00:41:27.039
I need to know objective load and load tolerance.
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:30.880
And that's why they're willing to talk to us because they're intrigued by what we're doing.
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:36.159
But then I also went to one uh like sport physical therapist like event just to learn.
00:41:36.480 --> 00:41:48.079
And one of the things that they had up was I think, you know, usually they'll say if your concentric strength would be considered 100% of your strength, I think isometric is 105% and eccentric is like 150%.
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:57.840
It's just like, well, if I want to be exposing myself to higher doses of that load to get stronger, eccentric overload is like the holy grail of the entire industry, I would say.
00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:02.400
But isometrics I can do for, you know, for zero dollars in my own garage.
00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:04.960
So that's what led me to just doing more isometric training.
00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:12.800
Yeah, and and again, especially for our community where tendons are notoriously beaten up, I think it can be such a good it can be such a good medicine.
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:25.119
And almost I I was thinking about this when you when you said this earlier with the the ability of the tower and and the isokinetics to be able to apply more force earlier in the rehab pathway, the value of that is is incredible.
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:28.639
Like I I appreciate that, yeah, I appreciate the kind of motor learning.
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:30.320
That's another kind of passion of mine.
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:31.840
I appreciate that that is really important.
00:42:31.920 --> 00:42:48.639
So learning how to squat and bench and and all those kind of Olympic lift, learning how to do those things is is fantastic, but being able to expose a tendon to non-jerk, high high loads, early doors is like that that would have saved me so much time working with patients back in the day if I'd have had access to something.
00:42:48.880 --> 00:42:51.599
Yeah, we had somebody, you know, when you look at, but how do you do that safely?
00:42:51.760 --> 00:42:54.719
Like we had somebody speak on our behalf one time at a conference.
00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:59.840
And again, like anybody that listened to this from the beginning, sometimes we really struggle to describe it.
00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:04.880
And then I watched somebody nail it in 10 seconds where they were like, you've got fuck around and you've got find out.
00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:07.280
Where isokinetics is like your fuck around.
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:09.840
Like, let's see what let's see what that, you know, what is it?
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:11.840
What is a good tendon load dose today?
00:43:11.920 --> 00:43:12.960
What does that look like for you?
00:43:13.039 --> 00:43:19.039
And then find out is like, let's put 225 on this isotonically, and oh shit, like you weren't, you know.
00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:23.920
So yeah, that that was how we just saw it nailed very quickly and you know, very easily.
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:24.639
That's really cool.
00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:26.559
So another question.
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:30.239
So how would you compare your your solutions?
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:38.239
The inf well infinity rope is pretty cut and dry for me, but your your force train tower compared to some of the other competitors.
00:43:38.400 --> 00:43:38.800
So why?
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:43.760
Because I'm sure that when people are looking into isokinetic resistance, some other competitors may come up.
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:46.480
So, how is yours different, maybe superior?
00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:48.400
Why should they consider yours over others?
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:58.400
Number one thing we hear is that we did the best job compared to any competitor in the space, as far as being the clang and bang of the tech company.
00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:03.920
So in the early days, we Put a max force rating on our tower of 1,500 pounds.
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:05.599
And we were like, that's just comical.
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:14.480
And we went to CSCCA and we had a strength coach who was a competitive power lifter come out of the hole at 800 and built the 1337 to win cash.
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:17.119
And I can tell you some people might be like, that's not possible.
00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:17.840
That's real.
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:18.880
That's a real number.
00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:24.320
Like we use a 5,000 pound load cell that's unbeliev like ungodly accurate to calibrate our machines.
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:26.000
And we had five guys in a lift.
00:44:26.079 --> 00:44:27.840
They were all like, when's this competition end?
00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:30.239
And they came back with bike guards and belts.
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:32.320
And we were like, oh shit, like we're gonna play.
00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:35.599
So that's something that we're very proud of.
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:40.159
Like we want to be highly, we want to be durable because no tech is good if it has downtime.
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:42.000
So that was very important to us.
00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:48.960
And I think recently somebody also did a really good job of explaining where we land because nobody should ever say, I don't have a competitor.
00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:57.360
But somebody said, you know, if you, if you kind of had a spectrum and on the left or on the one end of the spectrum, you had the humac and on the other end you had a Peloton.
00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:06.159
They said a lot of the people that might think that might that we might look at as a Poseidon competitor, they're probably closer to that Peloton side.
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:15.199
And then we're closer to the HUMAC, but not in the, you know, not all the way up against the HUMAC, but kind of just in this little island of our own, which we like being there.
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:21.440
So it is a little bit more challenging just from the educational barrier, but we like not having any specific direct competitor.
00:45:21.679 --> 00:45:24.239
I've got two, hopefully relatively quick ones.
00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:33.679
First one is like, so if if you're listening and you're in charge of procurement and you have some money to kind of look into something like this, what's what's kind of flashed about?
00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:40.239
Like if they pick up the phone and call you tomorrow, what what's the timeline in terms of getting something like that in their facility?
00:45:40.480 --> 00:45:40.639
Sure.
00:45:40.800 --> 00:45:44.559
So with our infinity rope, we try to keep them in inventory and we have some now.
00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:48.079
So that can be just go on website, purchase, ship same day.
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:52.559
If it's out of inventory, we're typically at like a one to two month wait somewhere in there.
00:45:52.639 --> 00:46:02.159
And then with the force train tower, we quote a 90-day lead time, but we also try to stay, we try to procure a little bit ahead as a business so that just to eliminate some wait time.
00:46:02.320 --> 00:46:04.719
We love the marketing and we love making customers happy.
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:07.039
So we want to get them out in the world as fast as possible.
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:12.800
So it's usually a little over a month, but we quote 90 days just in the event that we're sold out of time.
00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:13.440
Okay, cool.
00:46:13.519 --> 00:46:26.800
And and then just lastly, what and you can be as as vague or as specific as you want to be, but what what does the next kind of five, 10 years look like for you as a as an individual, kind of as a product developer and as someone in this space, but also as Poseidon?
00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:29.519
Like, have you got any any plans for trajectory and things like that?
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:30.559
That's a great question.
00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:31.920
You know, I love developing.
00:46:32.079 --> 00:46:47.360
Like for me, there's almost like part artist in me, which probably doesn't make any sense as an engineer, but like getting to build something, and you know, you're just in the shop by yourself and you build an early prototype, and then you take it out and you show it to somebody like you, Matt, or you G, and they're like, this is different.
00:46:47.519 --> 00:46:49.360
Like this thing, this is awesome.
00:46:49.519 --> 00:46:52.079
Like to me, that's the ultimate win for me.
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:54.159
So part of me just loves that.
00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:56.159
I mean, I don't even look at it as sales anymore.
00:46:56.239 --> 00:47:02.400
I look at it as just networking, and like most of my friends that I now text and call while I'm driving, I've met on that premise.
00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:05.360
So I think for me, it just looks like just doing a lot more of that.
00:47:05.440 --> 00:47:09.679
So going into a development cycle, building something and just getting back out on the road.
00:47:09.760 --> 00:47:16.400
And I think we're also very blessed as a business in that we have people that have asked us to build specific solutions to specific problems.
00:47:16.559 --> 00:47:25.119
So I think the next five to ten years, you know, our goal would be to at least have like another five products in the portfolio that all solve, you know, unique things.
00:47:25.280 --> 00:47:32.800
We're able to develop pretty quickly, like usually from completely clean slate to taking it on the road to show it people, we're like three months.
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:36.320
So we're pretty quick to at least get, you know, early proof of concept.
00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:37.440
We're pretty quick with it.
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:44.559
Um, so I think five to ten years, it just you know looks like that growing the team, growing the product portfolio, and just staying in front of good people, meeting more people.
00:47:44.880 --> 00:47:45.519
Exciting times.
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:47.119
Much mark, how can people get?
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:50.000
I mean, the basic questions, how can people get a hold of you?
00:47:50.079 --> 00:47:50.639
Where can they find you?
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:56.800
Yeah, I mean, I think our our boilerplate answer would be through the website sales at PoseidonStrength.com.
00:47:56.880 --> 00:48:01.440
That's our best channel that goes that gets spread out to everybody on the sales team here.
00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:07.280
And then whoever needs to own the contact just takes it from there, you know, usually instantaneously as soon as it comes in.
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:08.960
That's the you know the most guaranteed way.
00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:14.079
What does summer look like in terms of live appearances and visits and conferences and things like that?
00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:15.199
Yeah, great question.
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:18.480
So we we will be at T Sac down in Orlando.
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:20.000
Yeah, we'll be there.
00:48:20.320 --> 00:48:21.760
We'll definitely have to catch up for a brew.
00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:26.880
Yep, we'll be at T Sack and then we'll be at NWCA, the National Wrestling Coaches Association show.
00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:30.559
So we got that end of July in Baltimore and then T Sac in the middle of August.
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:35.199
So we actually missed T Sac last year, but we'll have a pretty good booth this year.
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:42.320
We now travel with like a 15-foot tripod with a rope hanging from it, and we'll be giving a good bit of cash away for whoever can climb it the longest.
00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:43.599
So man, I'm gonna ask you.
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:46.400
Then we do a raffle because we do a raffle just to try climbing it.
00:48:46.480 --> 00:48:50.320
You get your name in a raffle, and then whoever sets the record at T Sac will be giving away cash.
00:48:50.960 --> 00:48:54.480
What's the uh what's the minimum height requirement for the infinity rope?
00:48:54.559 --> 00:48:56.480
I got short ceilings here, that's what I'm asking.
00:48:56.639 --> 00:49:00.159
The lowest we have is a trainer uh with the UFC.
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:04.480
He's got it like eight or nine feet, so that's really seated, just pulling.
00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:08.320
So you're not gonna do a ton of climbing, like maybe some from an L-seated position.
00:49:08.480 --> 00:49:11.840
The ideal height is a little bit like closer to 12 feet.
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:14.880
130 inches to 150 is the sweet spot.
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:17.519
And then we do custom ropes for as high as you want to go.
00:49:17.599 --> 00:49:21.679
So if you want to put it at 40 feet, you can kind of defeat the safety purpose.
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:27.519
Well, we have one on an army base that lives at like I want to say it's 25 feet, it's pretty high.
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:31.519
It is you can still that's an interesting point of our rope I didn't even bring up.
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:35.519
You can still turn the velocity off and just use it like a regular climbing rope.
00:49:35.679 --> 00:49:38.000
So if you don't want to lose that modality, you can keep it.
00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:39.440
That's an option we offer with it.
00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:44.079
You can have people hold on and just eventually they have to lower the gravity will take them down, right?
00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:44.880
Yeah.
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:45.920
Yeah, that's fun.
00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:48.559
We do that for an educational, like learning to climb.
00:49:48.719 --> 00:49:51.519
If you have the speed on, somebody can just grab it and hold it.
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:55.840
And once they get their footing like the second time, you can just let go and then it starts to feed.
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:59.119
So pretty good, like group training, learning to climb modality.
00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:04.480
We're scrambling to get all these types of videos out on the web because we're doing more and more with it every day.
00:50:04.719 --> 00:50:07.599
Um, we just got to play catch up a little bit on all of our content.
00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:08.320
We understand.
00:50:08.400 --> 00:50:10.480
What about so you mentioned earlier literature?
00:50:10.639 --> 00:50:14.159
So are there certain studies that come to mind or certain practitioners like Dr.
00:50:14.239 --> 00:50:18.800
Fry that you mentioned, that people should be, if they're interested, they want to look up some of the work out there.
00:50:18.880 --> 00:50:20.159
Can you can you talk a little bit about that?
00:50:20.400 --> 00:50:28.000
Yeah, I mean, I think the best thing I can offer there, we have a good library that's all condensed as a PDF that we can send of any case study we've done, any research.
00:50:28.159 --> 00:50:32.079
So again, if you reach out to us, we can just give you everything we have in a one-stop shop.
00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:34.159
No, that's that's all of my questions asked.
00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:34.480
Thank you.
00:50:34.639 --> 00:50:35.840
Mark, you got anything to add?
00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:36.880
Just a big thank you.
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:38.079
I really appreciate you guys.
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:43.280
I mean, again, humble to be included in things like this and love the space and just gonna keep going.
00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:44.320
Yeah, awesome.
00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:47.679
Well, uh, I know Matt and I are looking forward to seeing you at T Sac.
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:49.920
I guess I gotta get brushed up on my rope training.
00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:51.039
I don't know where you're at with that.
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:53.119
We won't tell us no way.
00:50:55.280 --> 00:50:55.760
Yeah.
00:50:56.000 --> 00:50:57.920
But Mark, thank you so much for your time.
00:50:58.000 --> 00:50:59.920
I had a lot of fun, really exciting.
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:02.559
I really want to try to get your hands on the devices again.
00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:04.880
Let's say to really, you know, send it, so to speak.
00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:06.880
And I think we're gonna we're gonna end it here.
00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:09.039
So, uh, listeners, we'll see you on the next one.
00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:09.760
Die living.