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00:00:12.413So the challenge in marketing now is how can you change people's behavior a little bit more quickly?
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00:00:15.877Because if you don't change quickly, then it's going to be too late.
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00:00:34.682Welcome to Responsibly Different, brought to you by Campfire Consulting.
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00:00:40.774In this space, we kindle the stories, insights and dialogues at the heart of conscious consumerism and impactful business practices.
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00:00:47.485Each episode is a journey into the essence of making decisions and investments that nurture positive change.
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00:00:58.064Join our impact strategist, brittany Angelo, as she dives into the narratives of leaders and visionaries who are reshaping what it means to live and work with intention and purpose.
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00:01:15.855As part of this podcast series, Campfire collaborated with the B Tourism Network to bring to you all our listeners, some exciting conversations exploring the forefront of responsible travel and sustainability, in collaboration with industry leaders and innovators in the travel sector.
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00:01:17.706Curious about bee tourism?
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00:01:26.263Well, here's Madison Dom of Legacy Vacation Resorts talking a bit more about what the group does and how they connect through the Bee Tourism Network.
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00:01:32.686If you're curious to learn more about bee tourism or this series, head to the show notes to find some links.
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00:01:49.225The goal of bee tourism is to connect individuals and communities, so we really would like to partner with more bee locals so we can highlight and bring up those in the community, whether they're bee corps or not.
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00:01:56.906They can be 1% of the planet members or just people who are caring about their impact.
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00:02:06.272But really being able to connect communities globally, that will help extend our reach.
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00:02:27.840Currently, we are being faced with a global challenge such as climate change and over tourism, and there is a large role that responsible tourism can play in addressing both of these issues while using the UN Sustainable Development Goals both of these issues while using the UN Sustainable Development Goals.
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00:02:36.881I am excited to have both Brooke Hansen from the University of Southern Florida and Dr Alan Fall from the University of Central Florida on the podcast today to discuss exactly this.
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00:02:53.747Our conversations delve into the human aspects of sustainability, highlighting essential topics such as improving employee wages and benefits, adapting working hours and making travel more accessible for people with physical and mental disabilities.
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00:03:04.189Brooke and Alan's combined experiences offer invaluable insights into how these developments can create a more equitable and inclusive tourism industry.
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00:03:14.123This dialogue truly emphasizes the transformative power of responsible tourism in enhancing both environmental sustainability and social well-being.
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00:03:20.502After my conversation with them, I see why Brooke has the title of Queen of Sustainable Tourism.
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00:03:22.527I hope you enjoy this episode.
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00:03:28.241Welcome everybody to another episode of Responsibly Different.
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00:03:35.683I am so excited to have Brooke and Alan joining me for another part of this Be Tourism series.
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00:03:38.510Welcome, brooke and Alan, thanks for joining us.
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00:03:40.163Hi Brittany, hi Brooke.
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00:03:41.729My name is Alan Farr.
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00:03:54.055I'm the Associate Dean of Academic Affairs and the Visit Orlando Endowed Chair of Tourism Marketing at the Rosen College of Hospitality Management, which is part of the University of Central Florida in Orlando.
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00:03:56.641Nice to see you, brooke Hanson.
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00:04:06.801I'm in the School of Hospitality and Tourism Management in the Mooma College of Business at the University of South Florida and I'm an Associate Professor of Instruction.
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00:04:08.264Pleased to be here.
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00:04:27.675So, before we dive in, I just want to quickly state that I'm so excited to kind of be talking to both of you about the experience that you both are holding from the university side of teaching about tourism and how it all connects to this larger movement.
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00:05:01.803So let's get started by kind of getting to know each of you, and I think it's important to state that currently we're being faced with this global challenge, such as climate change and over tourism, and there's a large role that responsible tourism can play in addressing these issues, while we also focus on the sustainable development goals, and I'm excited to have both of you, brooke and Alan, on the podcast today to discuss exactly this.
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00:05:16.851So, brooke, as somebody with an extensive experience in sustainable tourism and destination stewardship, could you share with us some of the key principles or strategies that you use for promoting responsible tourism within destinations?
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00:05:18.120Absolutely.
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00:05:20.846And the first one is collaboration.
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00:05:23.089We need all hands on deck.
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00:05:26.314It's not just our university partners, of course.
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00:05:39.872I think we're critical because I am one, but it's collaboration with industry, with stakeholders, with communities, and of course that's SDG number 17, collaboration for the goals.
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00:05:42.865That will be the first key element.
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00:05:46.557The second one is to really assess what you have.
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00:05:57.250It's quite likely that tourism and hospitality in your communities is already engaging in sustainable practices, but they just haven't thought about it that way.
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00:06:01.262Maybe they have their staff volunteer at community events.
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00:06:03.288That's sustainable tourism.
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00:06:07.504So we don't want to start off on the foot that no one's doing anything.
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00:06:12.884We really want to celebrate what people are doing and then help them move forward.
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00:06:18.841And the third part of that pay attention to the themes that are happening globally.
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00:06:29.764We see a major transition right now from destination marketing organizations to destination management and stewardship organizations.
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00:06:33.913So all of those three elements, I think are really key.
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00:06:36.225Very interesting.
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00:06:38.312Thanks for kind of giving us that overview.
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00:06:44.865And, alan, I'm curious with your experience in tourism marketing and hospitality management.
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00:06:52.435How do you see the role of marketing in promoting responsible tourism practices and encouraging travelers to make sustainable choices?
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00:06:58.384Yeah, and thanks for the invitation, brittany, can I say I agree with everything that Brooks just said.
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00:07:19.173Say is collaboration should be number one in the whole agenda, because the I think when you first come into the tourism industry you don't realize how big it is and you really don't realize how complicated it is, because it's an industry which is made up of multiple smaller component parts.
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00:07:31.795So to me, collaboration is key because nobody can do it on their own and ultimately it's masses of individuals' behavior, which is a little bit of a standard term.
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00:07:34.745It will move the needle.
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00:07:38.009So it's individual actions that will move the needle.
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00:07:43.872And I think the thing about marketing marketing is really trying to induce behavioral change.
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00:07:47.408So essentially it comes from the world of consumption.
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00:07:57.314But if you just think back over the years, the first sort of sustainable message I think I ever got was do you really need to use these towels every day?
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00:08:01.466You know, let's go back about 20 years, but it was a simple message.
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00:08:02.925Now it's common.
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00:08:08.605Now the problem is it's taken a long, long time for it to be common practice.
00:08:08.605 -->
00:08:14.944So the challenge in marketing now is how can you change people's behavior a little bit more quickly?
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00:08:18.461Because if you don't change quickly, then it's going to be too late.
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00:08:31.023So, whether it's cosmetics, whether it's the food you eat, the recognition of the supply chain, are you going on?
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00:08:32.511Tours which are friendly to employees, friendly to animals, etc.
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00:08:33.879All these things, they're sort of becoming common practice.
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00:08:45.033The job of marketing is really to make these things happen a little bit more quickly, because the challenge we all face is the fact that things are getting more difficult year on year.
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00:08:54.590And I think you touched upon over-tourism, brittany, in your introduction, and one of the things that was on the news today was problems in Miami.
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00:08:58.730Now, you wouldn't think Miami climate change.
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00:09:09.729Well, yes, miami has many climate change challenges, but actually the problems identified today, which is to do with spring break uh, crowds from last year.
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00:09:27.913So on the surface it's over tourism, but actually it comes down to individual behavior of many, many people and that the behavior was inappropriate, so that a lot of the things that Miami Beach is doing this year is to try and change the behavior of individuals, to be more responsible.
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00:09:32.250By being more responsible, you protect, you preserve, you conserve, etc.
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00:09:34.500The destination, the experience.
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00:09:41.953So marketing can do a lot to move things along, but actually it comes down to individuals being responsible for their actions.
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00:09:47.280What an important kind of connection that you just made, and timely too.
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00:09:47.942Obviously.
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00:09:53.344Yeah, it's interesting how marketing plays into all of this, so thank you for sharing that.
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00:09:59.645So, brooke, I would love to kind of talk a little bit about University of Southern Florida now, so your time with USF.
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00:10:12.591I'm interested in understanding what are some of the most impactful initiatives or projects that you've worked on that have promoted sustainability and tourism, and how are the students in your classroom kind of involved in that work?
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00:10:17.793It's interesting because my students, of course, have all been travelers.
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00:10:22.871Almost everybody has, whether it's locally, regionally or further afield.
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00:10:39.291It's locally, regionally or further afield and many of them never thought about the impact that they have, with tourism being really the largest industry in the world, and if we can get travelers to change their behaviors we can really gain some ground on sustainability.
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00:10:44.833So I'm always thinking about how to engage students in my classes here.
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00:10:52.710I teach sustainable tourism, I teach ecotourism, I teach sustainable reporting and hospitality.
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00:11:05.811But I think the best course that I taught where I was really able to leverage the students for community impact was an honors class that I developed called Destination Stewardship.
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00:11:18.734We did a hands-on project with Keep Pinellas Beautiful, doing outreach to hotels, restaurants and tour operators, teaching them how to be more sustainable, and the students led the efforts.
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00:11:22.586They created a workshop with educational materials.
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00:11:26.193They contacted the hotels and restaurants to show up.
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00:11:28.302They ran the event.
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00:11:48.004They had it certified as a sustainability event and, as a result of that class and what those students did, we had a hospitality company attend and now they're committed to having all 54 of their Florida hotels put into the Florida Green Lodging Certification Program.
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00:12:02.303So from that class and from those students, 54 more hotels in Florida are going to be more sustainable, and the students were so proud of that and felt they really made a difference in the industry.
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00:12:16.732In addition to learning more about their own behaviors as travelers and making sure they're bringing their refillable bottle, to make sure they're bringing their bamboo flatware so they never have to use a plastic fork ever again.
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00:12:19.123It's those small changes.
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00:12:23.669As Alan was saying, a lot of this is individual practices.
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00:12:28.402Bring your refillable water bottle, Bring your utensils.
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00:12:31.409I don't care if you're going down the street or you're going to France.
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00:12:32.820Bring them with you.
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00:12:38.890Don't ever use plastic utensils or heavens, a plastic straw.
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00:12:41.534That is blasphemy in my world.
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00:12:44.145I can give you a paper straw.
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00:12:45.570I can give you a metal straw.
00:12:45.570 -->
00:12:48.985I have straws made out of reeds from Estonia.
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00:12:52.072We don't ever have to use a plastic straw.
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00:13:00.664It's such low hanging fruit and the students are really excited to be part of this global movement creating change in tourism.
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00:13:09.606Wow, I'm like I'm listening to you say all this and I'm like tourism Wow, I'm like, I'm listening to you say all this and I'm like, yeah, a lot of that is some low hanging fruit.
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00:13:15.346But it is funny how, when, when so many people are packing for their trips, they they're like oh, I'm going on vacation.
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00:13:23.716And sometimes we have to change that mindset of I'm going on vacation and how is that different from, like I'm going into the office?
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00:13:37.645Because every day that I go into the office, I have my reusable silverware with me and I pack my lunch and I never, ever use a straw One, because my water bottle has a straw already in it.
00:13:37.645 -->
00:13:45.340But it's like, how can we change the narrative that people are thinking that going into the office is different than going on vacation?
00:13:45.340 -->
00:13:46.003And you're right.
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00:13:51.804Like every time you go on vacation, your so your reusable silverware should be right there in your luggage with everything else.
00:13:51.804 -->
00:13:58.889So it's, you know it all comes down to preparing and prepping and and, uh, sharing that marketing properly, right?
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00:14:00.253and do you know, britney?
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00:14:04.048It's been the same problem for well decades with tourism.
00:14:04.048 -->
00:14:14.241How you behave at home is one thing, how you behave when you're away, always it's not totally different, but it it it's new, it's different, exciting you.
00:14:14.241 -->
00:14:16.486You haven't got the same sort of boundaries.
00:14:16.486 -->
00:14:21.184In some sense people just go and that's why the marketing component is so messy.
00:14:21.184 -->
00:14:33.962It's so important to just, yeah, bring your home behavior to the destination, and I think probably the only time I use plastic straws when they're thrust in front of you by an establishment.
00:14:33.962 -->
00:14:39.740So it it's sort of the decisions taken away from you, but I think the more.
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00:14:41.664I think, brooke, you said a great thing.
00:14:41.664 -->
00:14:43.669All the students say take it for granted.
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00:14:57.528Our job as educators is to keep sort of poking the student so they don't take it for granted and they may not have all the answers, but if we encourage them to ask the questions, they will gradually change over time.
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00:15:05.283The challenge is, I kept saying before, it's the speed with which the change occurs which is our real, that's the real barrier.
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00:15:06.787Mm-hmm Plus.
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00:15:09.774The current generation that we're teaching this is Gen Z.
00:15:09.774 -->
00:15:14.956It's like they were born with environmental values programmed into them.
00:15:14.956 -->
00:15:23.904They're going to be the largest group of travelers we've probably ever seen, so we got to hurry up and reach each and every one of them with these messages.
00:15:23.904 -->
00:15:28.076So then they will really take this generational change with them.
00:15:28.076 -->
00:15:37.581We do have a name for this phenomenon, where you leave your home and you travel and all of a sudden, what happened to your environmental values?
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00:15:43.575We call it vacation brain, and so we're trying to figure out how do we combat vacation brain.
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00:15:50.196If you're an environmentalist, if you're concerned about social issues, stick that in your suitcase and bring it with you.
00:15:50.196 -->
00:15:51.457Do not leave that at home.
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00:15:55.211I love that and, brooke, I really.
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00:16:06.556I don't want to glaze right over the fact that I think you said 54 new hotels joined this green tourism, green lodging movement.
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00:16:17.827So I want to hang on that for a second and say it is very clear to me still just kind of meeting you and getting to know you that you have a very strong voice in the community.
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00:16:32.716So I'm interested in understanding how do you use that strong voice to engage and inspire others to adopt responsible travel behaviors, but then also how do you echo that in the classroom and with your students?
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00:16:40.138My strategy is go everywhere, talk to everyone, and that's why Alan sees me all the time.
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00:16:42.451I'll show up at this conference, that event.
00:16:42.451 -->
00:16:48.269Go everywhere you can, and that means sometimes going into the belly of the beast.
00:16:48.269 -->
00:16:51.136That means going to places that aren't the choir.
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00:16:54.409Going into the belly of the beast, that means going to places that aren't the choir.
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00:17:12.738That may not be receptive to these messages, because we need to make sure that all sectors are hearing this, that we have a global movement happening with the UN Sustainable Development Goals, with sustainability already having taken hold in Europe, and we need to get on this train.
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00:17:14.769It has already left the station.
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00:17:17.075So I go to many different conferences.
00:17:17.075 -->
00:17:27.594I talk to DMOs, I talk to municipalities and I bring all that back to the classroom and I discuss the benefits and the pathways we can already take.
00:17:27.594 -->
00:17:32.566I talk about the challenges, ways we can already take.
00:17:32.566 -->
00:17:43.837I talk about the challenges and I celebrate whatever victories we have in this area, getting the United States and all the DMOs in it and all of our politicians on board with this message, and I'm seeing some really hopeful things.
00:17:43.837 -->
00:17:48.429I also tune in to the Brand USA board meetings.
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00:17:53.939That's our mega DMO or destination marketing organization for the US.
00:17:53.939 -->
00:17:56.750I've been doing that for a while just to see.
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00:17:59.076Are they talking about sustainability?
00:17:59.076 -->
00:18:03.011And the last meeting I went to they certainly are.
00:18:03.011 -->
00:18:05.917In fact, they're calling it one of their core values now.
00:18:05.917 -->
00:18:22.817So I need to be in these spaces and in these places to hear what's going on and then to insert this message and this agenda that we must have sustainable tourism, because tourism is the biggest industry on Earth and if we can make a difference there, we're really getting somewhere.
00:18:24.165 -->
00:18:24.948And do you know what, brittany?
00:18:24.948 -->
00:18:27.194In a way, you become an evangelical.
00:18:27.194 -->
00:18:30.692In a way, you're a sort of crusader for sustainability.
00:18:30.692 -->
00:18:33.609Because, brooke, I agree with you the amount of times you go to events.
00:18:33.609 -->
00:18:42.578And, yes, sometimes the conversations are difficult, but that's the nature of the beast, it's just persistence, persistence, persistence.
00:18:42.578 -->
00:18:44.833And change is coming, there's no doubt about it.
00:18:45.054 -->
00:18:50.308Yeah, yeah, and I mean I'm talking to some movers and shakers right now that are helping making that change.
00:18:50.308 -->
00:18:56.119So Alan Brooke started to mention some partnerships that she's forming.
00:18:56.119 -->
00:19:12.317So I'm wondering what's your perspective on partnerships and specifically, are you thinking of partnerships between academics, industry, government, ngos, and what partnerships are you using to leverage positive change and innovation in this space?
00:19:12.704 -->
00:19:22.020I think one of the nice things about being in a university, and certainly a public university we're very often, rightly or wrongly, we're viewed as the neutral partner.
00:19:22.020 -->
00:19:26.273So we don't have a political affiliation, we don't have a corporate affiliation.
00:19:26.273 -->
00:19:31.955We're those sort of, we're like the middle child of the industry.
00:19:31.955 -->
00:19:38.564So that puts us in a really good position to collaborate with virtually anyone and everyone.
00:19:38.564 -->
00:19:43.176Brittany, so the examples you mentioned we collaborate with all those.
00:19:43.176 -->
00:20:01.273So whether it's city, whether it's county, whether it's state, if it's national, sometimes it's international government, it could be corporations, it could be small enterprises, it can be volunteer groups, we mix with everybody and that's part of the freedom and the nice part about our job.
00:20:01.273 -->
00:20:08.173Um, I think just two examples that they're non-traditional sustainability examples, but they they complement what brooke was saying.
00:20:08.193 -->
00:20:09.679We do a lot in the field of human trafficking and modern slavery, which on?
00:20:09.679 -->
00:20:16.346We do a lot in the field of human trafficking and modern slavery, which, on the surface you're in the oh, what's that got to do with sustainability?
00:20:16.346 -->
00:20:21.175Well, it's the people component, um, of sustainability.
00:20:21.175 -->
00:20:34.890We work with the fbi, homeland security, we work with the police services, uh, a whole host of things, and it again it's it's all about changing the behavior of our students so they recognize the signs.
00:20:34.890 -->
00:20:37.616They are going to be the managers, the leaders of the future.
00:20:37.616 -->
00:20:39.268So do they understand you?
00:20:39.268 -->
00:20:43.018And it's not a particularly pleasant subject, it's the dark side.
00:20:43.018 -->
00:20:45.490But do you understand what goes on?
00:20:45.490 -->
00:20:47.013Do you understand the signs?
00:20:47.013 -->
00:20:48.436Do you know how to behave?
00:20:48.436 -->
00:20:50.992If you spot something, how do you report it?
00:20:50.992 -->
00:20:58.909So you know they're not difficult things, but you're just nudging the students on and I must say they're very, very, very receptive.
00:20:59.711 -->
00:21:01.935We have a similar thing with accessible travel.
00:21:01.935 -->
00:21:03.807So we're quite big on accessible travel.
00:21:03.807 -->
00:21:05.332We've mentioned this book before.
00:21:05.332 -->
00:21:10.355Visit tampa bay do a really good job how they promote their accessibility.
00:21:10.355 -->
00:21:16.252So how do you promote a destination to people with physical and neurological disabilities?
00:21:16.252 -->
00:21:27.172And again, that takes a whole army of people because some of the challenges are actually pretty severe in making places that weren't necessarily built for this type of market.
00:21:27.172 -->
00:21:28.355You know it's real.
00:21:28.355 -->
00:21:33.528So you have to deal with everybody and I think it's what makes our job enjoyable.
00:21:33.528 -->
00:21:34.390It's challenging.
00:21:34.390 -->
00:21:35.933It's very, very time consuming.
00:21:35.933 -->
00:21:41.816You know, when brooke talks, brooke has a huge amount of effort behind the scenes to to succeed like she does.
00:21:41.816 -->
00:21:55.519It takes a long, long time, but it I think it's just finding the people in the community that they don't always agree with you but they understand something needs to be done and they're willing to just move the dial slightly to move the agenda forward.
00:21:55.519 -->
00:21:59.935So when you find people like that, collectively things can move.
00:21:59.935 -->
00:22:04.007So in our world everything is collaboration every day.
00:22:04.508 -->
00:22:14.352And Brittany Alan brings up a really good point here, and I think it's one of the most common misconceptions I encounter when I talk to people about sustainable tourism.
00:22:14.352 -->
00:22:25.628Because it's oh that's, you know, saving trees and hanging up my towel and, you know, maybe putting a low flow showerhead in or something like that, and those are great environmental ideas.
00:22:25.628 -->
00:22:34.749But sustainable tourism is the triple bottom line of people, planet and prosperity, and the people part is huge.
00:22:34.749 -->
00:22:43.095As Alan mentioned, it means accessibility, it means fighting human trafficking, it means respecting culture where you travel.
00:22:43.095 -->
00:22:55.392So I spend a lot of time in my classes talking about this, because if we can't have cultural respect when we go to other people's homes, we don't have sustainable tourism.
00:22:55.392 -->
00:22:56.855So that's part of it too.
00:22:58.965 -->
00:22:59.406Thank you.
00:22:59.406 -->
00:23:09.817Yeah, no, I think you both bring up some really awesome points and things that we haven't talked about yet, so keep the interesting facts flowing.
00:23:10.768 -->
00:23:19.707And I wanted to bring up something else that Alan alluded to, and that was how do we engage all of these different partners, especially our business partners?
00:23:19.707 -->
00:23:22.053We have so many different businesses and tourism.
00:23:22.053 -->
00:23:28.031Sometimes, when you go knocking on the door and you open with sustainability, they throw their hands up.
00:23:28.031 -->
00:23:29.515I don't have time for that.
00:23:29.515 -->
00:23:30.737I can't afford that.
00:23:30.737 -->
00:23:45.979So I like to lead with a hook, and my hook is that all the latest studies that we have Expedia, booking, et cetera, et cetera tell us that 90% of consumers want more sustainable options in travel.
00:23:45.979 -->
00:23:49.333So if you're not doing it, you're going to get left behind.
00:23:49.333 -->
00:23:50.436Then they pay attention.
00:23:50.436 -->
00:24:06.599I don't like to always lead with the business case for sustainable tourism, but it is so strong we can absolutely lead with the business case and then we can fill in with the tools and platforms that can help businesses on this journey.
00:24:06.599 -->
00:24:17.959They can do things that cost nothing lots of low hanging fruit here and then continue on their journey and make bigger investments into sustainable tourism.
00:24:18.500 -->
00:24:24.234Yeah, no, I think you're spot on and leading with the business case works for some people.
00:24:24.234 -->
00:24:35.479So it's always just like gauging who you're talking to and what their personality is and then hitting them with whatever it is that's going to hit their heart, to make them change.
00:24:35.479 -->
00:24:36.299So I hear you.
00:24:36.704 -->
00:24:40.294And Brittany, can I add, because the business case is really, really important.
00:24:40.294 -->
00:24:50.138If you're in the United States, if you're in Europe and some other parts, and it's just, it's not saying one's right, one's wrong, but it's knowing how to get the message through.
00:24:50.138 -->
00:24:51.901In Europe and Asia it's much easier to talk about sustainability, they, but it's knowing how to get the message through.
00:24:51.901 -->
00:24:54.087In europe and asia, it's much easier to talk about sustainability.
00:24:54.087 -->
00:24:57.106They believe it's just the right thing to do, which is great.
00:24:57.106 -->
00:25:00.782They don't always do it perfectly, it must be said, but they, they believe in it.
00:25:01.003 -->
00:25:08.388Here it's got to be about the business case, it's all about the business case, it's all about the quarterly, it's all about the quarterly results.
00:25:08.388 -->
00:25:09.371Okay, okay.
00:25:09.371 -->
00:25:10.973So you know that's a cultural dynamic.
00:25:10.973 -->
00:25:13.278So to me there's no point moaning about it.
00:25:13.278 -->
00:25:18.988It's how do you frame your agenda that it addresses the quarterly results?
00:25:18.988 -->
00:25:21.954How does it address the business proposition?
00:25:21.954 -->
00:25:29.444And if you do that, not always but a lot of the time people will respond because you have to make the connection.
00:25:29.444 -->
00:25:31.573You have to make the connection to them.
00:25:32.025 -->
00:25:38.558So, Alan, I want to dig a little bit deeper into, maybe specifically for hotels and how they educate their guests.
00:25:38.558 -->
00:25:51.520So I'm curious, what have you been seeing from from hotels and from accommodation providers that they're integrating this idea of sustainable practices into their operations?
00:25:51.520 -->
00:26:07.739And I guess I'm specifically kind of looking to understand, like, how is the hotel still meeting the needs that they're trying to meet while also educating their guests and giving their guests the experience that maybe they're expecting?
00:26:08.164 -->
00:26:13.130Yeah, let me give you a really, really easy example, but I think it's a good example.
00:26:13.130 -->
00:26:15.737So it's an easy example, but it's a good example, I think.
00:26:15.737 -->
00:26:22.979And it comes down to when you're and again it's the vacation mindset that Brooke touched upon.
00:26:22.979 -->
00:26:31.010If you're staying in a hotel for a week, do you really need that room cleaned every single day?
00:26:31.010 -->
00:26:33.472How often do I clean?
00:26:33.512 -->
00:26:34.453My wife's not listening.
00:26:34.453 -->
00:26:36.355How often do I clean?
00:26:36.355 -->
00:26:40.238You don't clean your home every single day.
00:26:40.238 -->
00:26:44.922Your bed is not immaculate every single day, it just isn't.
00:26:44.922 -->
00:26:56.499So I think a lot of hotels they started this really before COVID, but the COVID pandemic really changed the dynamic because of a lack of staff or lack of staff or they couldn't afford staff or whatever.
00:26:56.499 -->
00:27:07.180So now very often hotels will say well, alan, mr and Mrs Fowler, if you only want your hotel room clean once in seven days, that's fine.
00:27:07.180 -->
00:27:08.530Here's your meal voucher.
00:27:08.530 -->
00:27:13.328Oh, go and eat at the green restaurant down the road where you won't be using your straw, etc.
00:27:13.328 -->
00:27:24.436So you're saving the hotel a lot of money having your room clean just once out of seven nights, you're going somewhere respectable and responsible, etc.
00:27:24.436 -->
00:27:26.386And so everybody's happy.
00:27:26.707 -->
00:27:29.111It's, it's the win win, win, win, win cliche.
00:27:29.111 -->
00:27:31.015But it's so simple.
00:27:31.015 -->
00:27:39.397And if you just think over the years, did it not occur to anyone to actually ask people do you need your hotel room cleaned?
00:27:39.397 -->
00:27:41.848Every single nobody asked the question.
00:27:41.848 -->
00:27:45.316You just did it, okay.
00:27:45.316 -->
00:27:48.589So it's little things like that that just make a difference.
00:27:48.589 -->
00:27:54.671And I think over time you actually go to hotels now and you turn oh, you don't wait to be out.
00:27:54.671 -->
00:27:55.574Oh don't bother.
00:27:55.574 -->
00:27:55.994Don't bother.
00:27:55.994 -->
00:27:59.529You know it's fine, my room's fine, just save your resource.
00:27:59.529 -->
00:28:02.035Yeah, it becomes sort of second nature.
00:28:02.035 -->
00:28:05.669So it's a small example, but it's those sort of things.
00:28:05.669 -->
00:28:09.438When you scale them up, they make a a big, big difference.
00:28:10.019 -->
00:28:14.991Yeah, and I guess this is also kind of making me wonder, like you feeling guilty now, Britton.
00:28:15.721 -->
00:28:30.968I'm definitely feeling guilty, alan, yes, but I mean I guess I'm thinking about the employer and the employee relationship here and I'm wondering also like to not be so stressed about cleaning every single?
00:28:30.968 -->
00:28:41.886Like to stay on your example, I'm thinking from the cleaning perspective at the hotel for the employees to not have to clean every single room every single day.
00:28:41.886 -->
00:28:46.923I bet that also gives them a little bit of relief and maybe not so much stress on the job.
00:28:46.923 -->
00:28:55.647And if you're not so stressed on the job, you show up and you're a happier employee, and I'm sure that that, like to some degree also pertains to sustainability.
00:28:57.557 -->
00:29:06.022Yeah, I think one of the catches to this is a lot of staff will maybe view this as or does that mean I'm not getting a tip?
00:29:06.022 -->
00:29:10.686Because obviously we're in a tip culture which you know you have to work with that.
00:29:10.686 -->
00:29:15.484So, personally, if I do this, if I see it, I'll give them $10.
00:29:15.484 -->
00:29:16.688It's $10.
00:29:16.688 -->
00:29:17.779Don't clean my room.
00:29:17.779 -->
00:29:21.664You know it's a smallish amount, but it just.
00:29:21.664 -->
00:29:25.612It means you're acknowledging and respecting that.
00:29:25.612 -->
00:29:36.434Yeah, there may be a knock-on effect for this sort of thing, but, but the primary reason really is, like a lot of hotel companies, they can't find the staff britney, so they've got a huge staff shortage.
00:29:36.434 -->
00:29:41.686So this actually helps them, but then again, it's a huge help to the environment as well.
00:29:41.686 -->
00:29:43.480So it's how you frame it.
00:29:43.480 -->
00:29:54.906You you know Brooks excellent at this it's just hitting that point so the receiver understands the message in a way that it addresses or solves problems for them.
00:29:55.127 -->
00:30:18.463And there's another thing happening in hotels which really helps to solidify this culture of sustainability and that's the formation of green teams, this notion that you know it's not you, the employee, and your boss or supervisor, but you're all part of a green team that might include housekeeping, mid-level management and the CEO.
00:30:18.463 -->
00:30:26.846You're all part of the green team and it helps people feel like they're part of something larger than the task at hand.
00:30:26.846 -->
00:30:40.367And that really helps with retention, because if people do have, you know, a somewhat repetitive job in the hospitality industry, it sure helps if you think you're making a difference with that.
00:30:40.367 -->
00:30:53.691So by not cleaning that room or by helping that customer recycle their plastic bottle or their can, those little actions can make people feel like they're being part of something.
00:30:53.691 -->
00:31:06.730And that's what we're trying to change in the hospitality industry and transform the nature of work and the meaning of it to be more about teams and cultures and working towards something larger.
00:31:06.730 -->
00:31:17.016So there's a lot more at foot here with the hotels in terms of building that kind of a sense of camaraderie, really.
00:31:17.798 -->
00:31:40.439And in the hospitality industry, the partners I work with who are committed to sustainability, they're doing educational events and everybody's there, from housekeeping to middle management to CEOs, because you have to have all hands on deck when it comes to sustainability for purchasing, procurement, housekeeping, food, waste management.
00:31:40.439 -->
00:31:42.585Everybody has to be part of this.
00:31:42.585 -->
00:31:44.289So it's not like upper management's going to do sustainability.
00:31:44.289 -->
00:31:45.815No, management is going to do sustainability.
00:31:45.815 -->
00:31:49.803No, everyone's going to do it and that's going to help build that culture.
00:31:50.414 -->
00:31:56.375A really good example in this area is the Four Seasons, so that's probably the top rated hotel in the Orlando area.
00:31:56.375 -->
00:32:05.205They're brilliant for that, absolutely brilliant, and it brings, whether you're senior management or the janitor, everybody's together.
00:32:05.586 -->
00:32:13.896So, really, really they do it excellently.
00:32:13.896 -->
00:32:21.019That makes me think of so not connected to hospitality, but maybe kind of is that famous story about NASA when somebody went and asked the janitor at NASA, like what's your job here?
00:32:21.019 -->
00:32:28.285And the janitor was like, well, I'm going to put a man on the moon, and it's like everybody at NASA had the same mission and they were working together.
00:32:28.285 -->
00:32:45.682And it's that same collaboration approach to this idea of sustainability and education around it, because if there's one person on staff who maybe passes a guest in the hallway and throws their trash on the ground, well then that guest is going to see that one action and only remember that.
00:32:45.682 -->
00:32:48.086So it's how we're all collaborating together.
00:32:48.086 -->
00:32:49.328So super cool.
00:32:49.328 -->
00:32:53.766Okay, I want to change gears a little bit here and talk about B-Tourism.
00:32:53.766 -->
00:32:59.749I know that you both have a very deep commitment to the movement of B-Tourism.
00:32:59.749 -->
00:33:03.377So, brooke, I'm going to start with you on this question.
00:33:03.377 -->
00:33:11.575I'm wondering if you can explain what be tourism entails and maybe how it's different from other conventional tourism approaches.
00:33:12.256 -->
00:33:32.434Yeah, be tourism is a fantastic collaborative of tourism partners from all over the world and it formed right about when the pandemic was coming at us, right about when the pandemic was coming at us, and it turned very quickly into an amazing resource where people were sharing best practices of how are you getting by, what are you doing.
00:33:32.994 -->
00:34:12.289But what I love about it is I can tune into any meeting and I'm meeting people from South Africa, nicaragua, australia, and I can learn about what's happening in other parts of the world and we've shared so much information and so many different examples, like how to put an indigenous land acknowledgement in your hotel lobby, how to give that nod to culture of the land upon which your hotel or your restaurant sits, restaurant sets, and so we got to hear about examples from Australia, because they've done a great job with the land acknowledgements before conferences and in their tourism sites as well.
00:34:12.289 -->
00:34:21.940So just sharing that global knowledge has been amazing and also sharing tools like the Bee Impact Assessment Tool that comes with B Corp.
00:34:21.940 -->
00:34:29.621That's incredible and it's a free tool, so we get to share those best practices that come from the B Corp movements.
00:34:30.983 -->
00:34:34.117And can I just add Brittany I just tried to what Brooke said a lot of it.
00:34:34.117 -->
00:34:40.009I think it develops a really strong progressive mindset in people.
00:34:40.009 -->
00:34:51.217So you just got a slightly different lens on the world of business and it's really powerful and really popular, increasing in popularity with the Gen Z, no doubt about it.
00:34:51.217 -->
00:34:59.434So it's got a bit of an entrepreneurial flavor to it as well, and our students are then about yours, brooke, but year on year everyone wants to be an entrepreneur.
00:34:59.434 -->
00:35:01.543That wasn't the case five or six years ago.
00:35:02.175 -->
00:35:26.789And just to share another vignette about bee tourism we're not only building community and sharing best practices, but I learned some amazing things from this group and the time that we had Embu River Camp come into bee tourism and talk about how they are the first fully electrified safari in the Maasai Mar and Kenya was amazing.
00:35:26.789 -->
00:35:44.219And then learning how Loik and William and the other partners at Embu did that on a shoestring Everyone told them you don't have enough money to electrify your fleet, you can't be completely zero waste, you won't be able to get your carbon to net zero.
00:35:44.219 -->
00:35:46.626And they figured out a way.
00:35:46.626 -->
00:35:48.438They literally like, did it themselves.
00:35:48.438 -->
00:35:58.726They took the old safari vehicles, took the engines out and electrified it and they became the first net zero, fully electrified safari in Kenya.
00:35:58.726 -->
00:36:01.056Their story was so amazing.
00:36:01.498 -->
00:36:05.565That is my final exam question for my sustainable tourism class.
00:36:05.565 -->
00:36:16.286They've watched that B-tourism piece that Loic presented from Embu River Camps and they have to write about why this is a best practice model for sustainable tourism.
00:36:16.286 -->
00:36:21.485So I get to use it pedagogically in addition to all the other benefits of B-tourism.
00:36:23.317 -->
00:36:46.949Yeah, I feel like hearing about all the different parties and companies that are involved in B tourism and learning about all the different members, I'm like I don't want to go, to say, this country anymore, but I want to go and visit that tour operator because they're just doing things so different and so innovative and I think Embu is a great example.
00:36:46.949 -->
00:37:07.065It's like and it's not that I never wanted to go to Kenya, I do, I want to go everywhere, but I now want to go to Kenya to see Embu and see their operation and it's so fascinating how learning about these different tour operations, how that is changing where I want to travel, it's a really cool mindset, mind switch, I guess I'll say.
00:37:07.815 -->
00:37:08.175And Brittany.
00:37:08.175 -->
00:37:16.599A really good example of that is and it's the classic case of do you think of the place first or do you think of the organization and a really good one that's changing.
00:37:16.599 -->
00:37:19.125That is called Intrepid Travel.
00:37:19.125 -->
00:37:28.001It's a big call and they're really, really, essentially they're doing what Brooke is explaining and it's like well, well, let's just have a with them where?
00:37:28.021 -->
00:37:28.664do they go then?
00:37:28.744 -->
00:37:32.175because wherever they go, they must be doing it properly.
00:37:32.175 -->
00:37:41.322So it it switches you thinking of the place to an entity or an organization or individuals who you know are going to be responsible in what they do.
00:37:41.322 -->
00:37:43.938So that's essentially what their brand is all about.
00:37:43.938 -->
00:37:48.465But you're trusting them to do it properly, and then you go to these amazing places.
00:37:48.847 -->
00:38:00.706And we have a growing number of B Corps around the world in the tourism and hospitality industries and luckily B Corps is kind of keeping track for us and that's Lauren and she'll let us know what the meeting is.
00:38:00.746 -->
00:38:02.722Oh, okay, we have 150 now.
00:38:02.822 -->
00:38:09.286Okay, now we have this many and just like sometimes people travel to go to different UNESCO sites.
00:38:09.286 -->
00:38:20.635People can also travel the B routes of the world and follow B Corp as the movement grows, because we know B Corp is going to be aligned with our sustainability values.
00:38:20.635 -->
00:38:31.822It's a very vigorous sustainability reporting and certification system and I usually talk about it with my students and with industry partners as a tiered approach.
00:38:31.822 -->
00:38:51.143You want to go on the pathway to sustainability, maybe start with some low hanging fruit, maybe do an ocean friendly certification and get rid of your straws and then become intrigued and further engage with this journey that you're on and if you want to really go all the way and be top notch, be a B Corp.
00:38:51.143 -->
00:38:53.376That's kind of how I explain it to people.
00:38:53.376 -->
00:39:09.380To me it very much is one of the pinnacles that we can reach in sustainability and with the free tools like the B Impact Assessment Tool and with leaders like Ben and Jerry's in Patagonia and all the other great bee corps in the world.
00:39:09.380 -->
00:39:12.268There's no reason not to strive for these heights.
00:39:13.775 -->
00:39:33.405I just thought of something, and I'm going to have to email Lauren and tell her this, but I feel like the next job that Bee Tourism creates for their nonprofit should be a B Corp travel agent and they should be responsible for just helping people plan trips specifically with B Corps.
00:39:33.405 -->
00:39:37.608I feel like myself as somebody super passionate about this movement.
00:39:37.608 -->
00:39:39.414I totally needed an educator.
00:39:39.414 -->
00:39:43.146When planning my honeymoon, so I'll tell Lauren to get on that.
00:39:43.146 -->
00:39:49.619Planning my honeymoon so I'll tell Lauren to get on that.
00:39:49.619 -->
00:39:49.940Cool, okay.
00:39:49.940 -->
00:40:00.878So, alan, I want to transition back to you, and my question for you is how do you think universities can contribute to the advancement of responsible tourism practices through research, education and community engagement?
00:40:00.878 -->
00:40:09.219And I'm wondering if you specifically maybe are or see a way for how this can happen within the B Tourism group for the universities.
00:40:09.681 -->
00:40:39.846Yeah, I actually see it broader than the B Corps because I think that essentially, our mission is to try and educate as many students as possible in terms of responsible behaviour period and I think the more we showcase them good examples, which will be through BECOR we showcase them really good responsible leaders, we introduce them and get them in front of really good projects.
00:40:39.846 -->
00:40:47.295Like Brooke mentioned earlier, our job is basically to facilitate moving a mass of students, mentioned earlier.
00:40:47.295 -->
00:40:51.224Our job is basically to facilitate moving a mass of students along a continuum where they're being more receptive to the.
00:40:51.224 -->
00:40:56.483You know the real challenges out there, be it climatic or human trafficking or or whatever.
00:40:56.483 -->
00:41:04.782The challenge is just being honest with them, because I think part of the challenge I think it's a big challenge in hospitality and tourism.
00:41:04.782 -->
00:41:15.987Sometimes it looks very glossy, it's very sexy, it's very fun and all this it is, it is all those things, but actually it's a deeply serious industry behind the scenes as well.
00:41:15.987 -->
00:41:17.438It can do a lot of good.
00:41:17.438 -->
00:41:19.925If it's not done properly, it can do a lot of bad.
00:41:19.925 -->
00:41:27.929So our job is really just to open the students eyes open, open the doors to opportunities and they will learn and take it forward.
00:41:29.036 -->
00:41:34.594And I think the really good thing that Brooks mentioned as well is, you know, the generation is changing.
00:41:34.594 -->
00:41:46.958There's absolutely no doubt about that, and I get I got two teenagers that they tell me when I'm wrong and they're very, very quick to point out when I'm wrong, but that's good.
00:41:46.958 -->
00:41:50.987So you know the message, the message is coming across.
00:41:50.987 -->
00:41:58.795So our job is really never to give up and again, it's what Brooke mentioned, it's just day in, day out You're trying to communicate a message.
00:41:58.795 -->
00:42:00.119We can't preach.
00:42:00.119 -->
00:42:01.625If you preach they don't listen.
00:42:02.034 -->
00:42:12.864It's got to be integrated into our study, integrated into our projects and really finding, you know, I was just saying that last week actually, we had John Rivers from the Four Rivers.
00:42:12.864 -->
00:42:16.623It's a sort of barbecue chain down here.
00:42:16.623 -->
00:42:32.306The food is just amazing, but absolutely committed to the sort of farm-to-table concept and students love that because they see it as very entrepreneurial, they can see it as things they can do that in their own concepts, moving forward.
00:42:32.306 -->
00:42:39.807So we're really we're here to open people's minds and open doors for the opportunities.
00:42:39.807 -->
00:42:40.608That's really our job.
00:42:40.608 -->
00:42:48.277We're these huge facilitators with, you know, thousands of students we're these huge facilitators with.
00:42:48.338 -->
00:42:56.559you know, thousands of students and, if you think about it, all the students we teach, they've all been travelers, but they never had the framework to think about the impact of that.
00:42:56.559 -->
00:42:57.822Why is that?
00:42:57.822 -->
00:43:02.581Where do we teach people how to be travelers and how to be global citizens?
00:43:02.581 -->
00:43:03.525We don't.
00:43:03.525 -->
00:43:06.076We should be teaching it from kindergarten on.
00:43:06.076 -->
00:43:10.344We should have high school classes on how to be a responsible traveler.
00:43:10.344 -->
00:43:25.239So it's really sad that we have to wait till they get to college or university to have these courses to help them understand this global industry and their part in it and how to be a good global citizen and a responsible traveler.
00:43:25.621 -->
00:43:35.661So we're kind of making up for some lost time where we didn't teach anyone how to do this, and we can involve students from every major in our discipline.
00:43:35.661 -->
00:43:39.568We need the marketing people, we need the psychologists.
00:43:39.568 -->
00:43:45.407We need the anthropologists to help us understand how to respectfully interact with other cultures.
00:43:45.407 -->
00:43:56.954We need the biologists, because we got to understand what microplastics are doing in our environment when they're left behind in the tourism industry and they infect our waters and our landscapes.
00:43:56.954 -->
00:44:05.934We need all hands on deck from every major in hospitality and tourism to move forward with our sustainability agenda.
00:44:05.934 -->
00:44:11.467So that's a really exciting part of what we can do in our university programs.
00:44:11.467 -->
00:44:18.108And, of course, I'm biased and I think sustainable tourism should be required in all academic programs.
00:44:18.108 -->
00:44:22.126Unfortunately, it's usually like an elective down at the bottom.
00:44:22.126 -->
00:44:24.503I'm hoping to change that in our industry.
00:44:24.503 -->
00:44:27.019Like an elective down at the bottom, I'm hoping to change that in our industry.
00:44:27.019 -->
00:44:31.251That should be one of the core courses that is taught in every hospitality and tourism program.
00:44:31.251 -->
00:44:32.735So we're working on that.
00:44:34.898 -->
00:44:38.425Yeah, wow, I wish you well on that journey.
00:44:38.425 -->
00:44:45.085And I agree, I do think that I mean sustainability should be rooted in every major, but, yes, definitely in this one.
00:44:45.085 -->
00:44:50.034I mean sustainability should be rooted in every major, but, yes, definitely in this one.
00:44:50.034 -->
00:44:54.597Okay, well, I'm thinking.
00:44:54.597 -->
00:45:03.199My last question that I'm going to ask the two of you is around what advice would you offer to aspiring professionals or students that are interested in pursuing careers in sustainable tourism and hospitality management?
00:45:03.199 -->
00:45:08.268And, alan, I'll start with you if you feel motivated to answer this.
00:45:09.070 -->
00:45:29.746No, no, I think I've been in hospitality and tourism for a long, long time and I genuinely believe that the future is really, really positive and I think the opportunities for young students now they're way, way, way more than when I started.
00:45:29.746 -->
00:45:47.090And I think the best advice is turn off the media, turn off the national media and just focus on really good products, really good experiences and think of sustainability in its broadest sense.
00:45:47.090 -->
00:45:50.380So the the people, planet, prosperity that brooke mentioned earlier.
00:45:50.380 -->
00:46:03.498I totally subscribe to that and I think if, if students just take on a simple message, they can really move that, move the dial a big, big way, because it's not going to be my generation.
00:46:03.498 -->
00:46:06.425We, we've caused a lot of the problems.
00:46:06.425 -->
00:46:15.822It's, it's the next generation and I think if they think if you're entrepreneurial, innovating, exciting, they'll do it, they'll, they'll do it.
00:46:15.822 -->
00:46:28.010There's no doubt about the biggest challenge for them is scaling it up, because all these problems are, you know, orlando has 70 plus million visitors a year, which is that's a lot of people.
00:46:28.010 -->
00:46:40.451So, yes, somehow the energy has got to change the behavior of those 70 million, not just 70, who stay in a green, eco lodge down the road.
00:46:40.451 -->
00:46:46.255So that's their challenge, road.
00:46:46.255 -->
00:46:50.634So that's their challenge, but I I'm very confident that the energy is definitely there and the opportunities for innovation in the industry are really there.
00:46:50.653 -->
00:47:03.954Britney and I've mentioned the fort rivers just an example, because they were here last week really really impressive um, you know, farm farm to table sort of scenario and the students they're hooked, absolutely hooked.
00:47:03.954 -->
00:47:05.632So I think the future's bright, the future's bright, the future's green and I think one of the students they hooked, absolutely hooked.
00:47:05.632 -->
00:47:07.027So I think the future is bright, the future is bright, the future is green.
00:47:08.088 -->
00:47:12.719And, I think, one of the best things that we can communicate to our university students.
00:47:12.719 -->
00:47:20.262There are so many jobs and so many niches of this as we evolve more into sustainability.
00:47:20.262 -->
00:47:25.516We have companies now that are doing the zero waste certifications for events.
00:47:25.516 -->
00:47:30.824We have companies that are specializing in virtualization technologies for sustainable tourism.
00:47:30.824 -->
00:47:35.451There's something for everyone as we move further into this field.
00:47:36.916 -->
00:47:46.391I wanted to thank both of you so much for giving me your time and taking a moment to share everything that you're working on, because I do think that your message is extremely important and helpful.
00:47:46.391 -->
00:47:47.052So thank you.
00:47:47.472 -->
00:47:52.748Well, we thank you for having us on, because it's really important to to get this information out there.
00:47:52.768 -->
00:47:56.739Yeah, Any means to get the message out is really positive.
00:47:57.621 -->
00:47:59.784Exactly so, thank you.
00:48:00.465 -->
00:48:00.827Brittany.
00:48:00.827 -->
00:48:18.423Thank you for the invitation, brooke always happy to see you.
00:48:18.483 -->
00:48:24.467We'll see you again soon, hopefully For insights and strategies that elevate your brand story in a meaningful way.
00:48:24.467 -->
00:48:27.469Visit us at campfireconsulting.
00:48:27.469 -->
00:48:34.052Don't forget to subscribe, rate and share, as every interaction helps spread the warmth of responsible living.
00:48:34.052 -->
00:48:45.298Until next time, keep the fire of curiosity alive and embrace the power of being responsibly different.
