Why CMOs should pay attention to indie agencies with Doug Zanger, Founder @ Indie Agency News

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Hello,
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everyone.
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Welcome to Question Everything,
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a podcast all about learning from the successes and
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the failures of those who dare to,
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well,
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question everything.
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This podcast is part interview,
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part therapy,
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and part Price is Right.
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We have our own game board stacked with questions
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that'
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ll make even the most successful CMOs sweat.
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I'
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m your host,
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Ashley Walter,
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CMO and partner at Curiosity.
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On today'
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s episode,
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I sit down with Doug Zanger,
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founder and editor-in-chief at Indie Agency News,
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a one-stop shop for all things independent
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agencies.
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Today,
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you' ll learn why the most interesting and best
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creative work is coming from independent agencies,
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why life is a mullet,
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business up front,
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human in the back,
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and how you can craft a question so perfect,
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it stumps and inspires Oprah.
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In true Zanger fashion,
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he holds nothing back,
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and he lets his hair down.
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Let'
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s get started.
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Doug Zanger is the founder and editor -in -chief
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of Indie Agency News,
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a global hub celebrating independent agencies and
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the brilliant people behind them.
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Before founding his own news network,
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Zanger was a radio host,
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a voice actor,
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ad week journalist,
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and brand purpose host.
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Though he never gets tired of hearing how people,
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companies,
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brands,
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and organizations tell their stories,
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well,
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we' re sure you won'
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t get tired of listening to his.
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So Doug Zanger,
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welcome to Question Everything.
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How are you?
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Doug Zanger: Good.
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God help you for saying that?
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Yeah,
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let me move this over so that my green screen is,
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there we go.
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Ashley Butler: I love that you have a green
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screen.
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Definitely,
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I think our first guest with a green screen.
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This is great.
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Doug Zanger: Well,
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I have to.
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I don'
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t have a choice.
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Ashley Walter: So what have you been up to?
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Doug Zanger: Ah,
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it' s getting into the future.
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There'
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s a ton of talk.
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So that'
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s important.
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Fall season.
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I am a big fan of fall woolens.
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Fall is my favorite time of the year,
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very closely followed by winter.
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I need to get you some of our Dude Wipes Dunkin'
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Spice special edition fall drop.
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It smells delicious.
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It'
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s got to.
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All right.
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So before we get into the game board,
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I' ve got one question for you.
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So you have called yourself the uncle of
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advertising.
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Uncle Advertising.
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That'
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s right.
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Tell me more,
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Uncle Advertising.
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All right.
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So I am of a certain age.
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You can see the color of my hair.
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I'
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ve been around for a minute.
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So part of that is the uncle quality.
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But also part of this is my friend David Greiner,
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who was my boss and colleague at AdWeek,
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and we' ve known each other for a long time.
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He' s known as AdDad.
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And I am like his older brother who shows up with
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the good weed,
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maybe doles out some good advice,
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maybe some sketches.
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She advice.
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And then I go back to my little my my little hut
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here in Portland,
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Oregon.
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And yeah,
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I' m just kind of that.
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And it just felt funny to me at first.
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And then I put it up on my LinkedIn profile and
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everyone said,
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yeah,
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that' s perfect.
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Yeah.
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So uncle advertising it is.
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All right,
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uncle advertising.
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So you know how this this podcast works.
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So we'
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ve got 12 super spicy questions.
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The power is in your hands.
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Half the fun in this is just figuring out which
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number you'
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re going to pick.
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But we' Let'
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s pull the game board up now.
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All right.
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Let'
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s go.
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Let'
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s go with my original soccer number eight.
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All right.
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Number eight.
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So you are a champion for the Indies independent
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agencies.
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So what would you tell a CMO?
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Why should they be paying attention to what Indy
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agencies are up to right now?
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I believe that there is a ferocity of intention.
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And what I mean by that is and I'
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m not saying you don'
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t see this at holding companies.
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But what I do see at Independence is the idea of
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ferocity of intention,
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which is this relentless focus on doing things that
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are unique,
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that that have a story,
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a pathway that have longevity.
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I think there is this perception of independent
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agencies.
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And listen,
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we can get into the AOR versus project.
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I'
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m a fan of looking in the middle,
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which is a key creative provider,
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a key marketing provider,
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I feel like that' s a middle space.
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And I don'
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t want to be Mr.
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acronym for anything.
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But that'
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s what I feel like a lot of Indies do really
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well,
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where they may be traditionally known as a roster
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agency.
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But at the same time,
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an Indy may not necessarily be working with the
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main AOR,
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they may be off to the side,
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they may be this very key creative partner or
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marketing partner.
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And this idea of this relentless focus,
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I think there As a perception that Indies are one
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and done,
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but they' re not.
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I would say for CMOs and marketers,
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look at the work that you do with Indy as a
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starting point,
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then you decide to choose your own adventures,
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like we' re doing here,
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where move around a little bit and see where you
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can get more out of it.
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Because I guarantee you that an Indy is going to
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be willing to explore that space with you with the
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intention of how is this going to grow your
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business and it might grow your business
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differently.
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It might not be a rocket ship.
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But not everybody needs a rocket ship.
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Everybody needs sustainability of growth.
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And I do think that CMOs need to understand that
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I think the most interesting,
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and it' s subjective,
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but I do believe this firmly that I think the
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best creative work that delivers results are coming
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from independent agencies.
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The other thing too is,
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the earlier eras of Indies,
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there was a lot of M&A going on.
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So 04,
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08,
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and a lot of those people were obviously senior,
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but in subsequent layoffs,
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and holding company layoffs,
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you start seeing mid-level people starting their
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own thing.
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But now this next group that'
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s going to be spun out of holding companies,
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they' re more senior,
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or they choose to leave.
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They'
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re more senior.
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So I think there
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I'
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m going to be more durable with independent
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agencies and marketers need to pay attention to
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that because they can be that key creative and key
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marketing partner for you.
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I don'
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t even think I can summarize that any better.
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I mean,
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Indy agencies can grow your business.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I mean,
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the creative coming out of Indy agencies is
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spectacular.
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I think other benefits like,
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you know,
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speed to market,
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just not having all of those layers.
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I hear that a lot from clients.
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Like I'
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m just sick of the layers that I have to go
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through.
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And yeah,
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I mean,
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it' s the Indy era right now and you'
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re kind of uncle advertising spokes guy for it,
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which I appreciate.
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God help us,
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but okay.
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Alright.
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Let'
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s go back to the game board.
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Alright.
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Let'
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s go to number one.
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Number one.
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Okay,
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I' m kidding.
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You love asking questions that have never been
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asked before.
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So I heard that once in your life,
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you stumped Oprah.
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Is this true?
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Oh,
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shit.
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So I was at Fast Company LA and I think this was
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2015.
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Great,
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great event.
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It was a two- day thing.
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They did this,
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you know,
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day of programming at 72 and Sunny.
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It was outside.
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It was great.
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I don'
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t think MDC had bought them yet.
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So,
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I guess they might have been in deep,
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but the next day you could choose to go to
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certain parts of LA and it was,
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it was a curated experience where you get on these
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vans and you go to a certain part of town and,
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and I have to go back.
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I'
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ll have to ask Jeff,
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Jeff Beer about this because it was great.
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So one of them was going to Hollywood and we'
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ll,
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we' re going to go to,
292
00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:46,560
we' re going to go to the community.
293
00:07:46,700 --> 00:07:48,140
I remember there'
294
00:07:48,140 --> 00:07:49,620
s another agency we went to,
295
00:07:49,660 --> 00:07:52,180
and then you' d go to own Oprah Winfrey network.
296
00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:53,360
And we didn'
297
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:54,360
t expect anything,
298
00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:55,140
but you know,
299
00:07:55,140 --> 00:07:55,320
everybody,
300
00:07:55,420 --> 00:07:56,760
everybody was in this room.
301
00:07:56,900 --> 00:07:58,780
And so Oprah comes out and,
302
00:07:58,780 --> 00:08:00,100
and one of the people and it' s like,
303
00:08:00,180 --> 00:08:00,280
Hey,
304
00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:01,240
do you have any questions?
305
00:08:01,860 --> 00:08:02,876
And I can'
306
00:08:02,876 --> 00:08:04,160
t take credit for this question.
307
00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,240
It was from when I was working for Stillwell
308
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:06,580
partners,
309
00:08:06,700 --> 00:08:08,340
the advertising week B2B events,
310
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:12,440
I had a bunch of volunteer bloggers and I think
311
00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:13,500
his name was Dan,
312
00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,680
Dan Costa.
313
00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:16,920
I want to say it was,
314
00:08:16,940 --> 00:08:17,940
I want to give him credit.
315
00:08:18,260 --> 00:08:18,740
Okay.
316
00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:19,660
Dan Costa.
317
00:08:19,740 --> 00:08:20,780
I think,
318
00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:21,900
oh shit.
319
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:22,586
If I'
320
00:08:22,586 --> 00:08:23,360
m messing it up,
321
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:23,680
I' m sorry,
322
00:08:23,780 --> 00:08:23,960
Dan.
323
00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:25,940
But he,
324
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:26,220
he,
325
00:08:26,260 --> 00:08:26,500
I,
326
00:08:26,580 --> 00:08:28,560
I once reached out to the community that I' d
327
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:29,800
built for this,
328
00:08:29,820 --> 00:08:30,640
for this blog network.
329
00:08:30,820 --> 00:08:31,040
And,
330
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:32,400
and he said,
331
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:33,600
here' s a good question.
332
00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:34,079
What'
333
00:08:34,079 --> 00:08:34,746
s something that you'
334
00:08:34,746 --> 00:08:37,640
ve learned personally or professionally recently that
335
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,606
surprised us and Oprah paused and was like, '
336
00:08:41,606 --> 00:08:42,980
And then she answered it,
337
00:08:42,980 --> 00:08:44,500
answered it' and talked about Janet Mock,
338
00:08:44,620 --> 00:08:45,480
the wonderful Janet Mock,
339
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,420
and talked about sexuality on a spectrum and what
340
00:08:49,420 --> 00:08:51,000
we learned about that through Janet.
341
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:51,720
And so,
342
00:08:51,780 --> 00:08:52,220
yeah.
343
00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:53,100
It turned out really great.
344
00:08:53,180 --> 00:08:53,480
But yeah,
345
00:08:53,560 --> 00:08:54,120
it' s one of my,
346
00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,180
one of my signature moments.
347
00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:56,720
People were like, '
348
00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:57,040
Oh my God,
349
00:08:57,060 --> 00:08:59,440
that was such a good one.' That is a good one.
350
00:08:59,480 --> 00:08:59,600
Well,
351
00:08:59,620 --> 00:09:01,480
first you got to meet Oprah and then you got to
352
00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:02,320
interview her.
353
00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:02,624
She'
354
00:09:02,624 --> 00:09:03,000
s awesome.
355
00:09:03,100 --> 00:09:03,400
Yeah.
356
00:09:03,540 --> 00:09:04,860
And the space was great.
357
00:09:05,020 --> 00:09:05,340
Now.
358
00:09:05,380 --> 00:09:06,860
And I think part of it is I just like poking the
359
00:09:06,860 --> 00:09:07,540
bear a little bit.
360
00:09:07,580 --> 00:09:08,380
I do.
361
00:09:08,620 --> 00:09:08,940
Right.
362
00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:09,980
But not in a way,
363
00:09:09,980 --> 00:09:11,560
but in a way that' s meant to,
364
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,660
I do like curiosity.
365
00:09:13,780 --> 00:09:14,780
I like not your,
366
00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:15,420
just your agency,
367
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,760
but I like this idea of going into these places
368
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,300
that maybe creates a little bit of frustration.
369
00:09:22,300 --> 00:09:23,896
But not so much friction that you can'
370
00:09:23,896 --> 00:09:24,560
t understand it.
371
00:09:24,860 --> 00:09:25,226
What'
372
00:09:25,226 --> 00:09:28,040
s like the art to asking a good question?
373
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,540
Do you have like a formula or how do you,
374
00:09:30,540 --> 00:09:31,140
how do you do it?
375
00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:33,000
One of the things I learned.
376
00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,080
So actually one of my career was radio and what I
377
00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:38,360
learned pretty early.
378
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:39,600
And I think part of it was intuitive,
379
00:09:39,740 --> 00:09:42,360
but I think part of it was also learned,
380
00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:43,800
what was learned as well.
381
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,540
And people like Ebro from Hot 97 and Apple Music
382
00:09:46,540 --> 00:09:47,540
who I worked with,
383
00:09:47,540 --> 00:09:48,840
he gave me my first shot.
384
00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:49,600
Mario,
385
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:50,860
who was afternoon Alexa,
386
00:09:50,980 --> 00:09:52,000
who was mid- days.
387
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,900
And I would listen to them interview artists,
388
00:09:54,940 --> 00:09:55,160
you know,
389
00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:56,340
hip- hop artists and R& B artists.
390
00:09:57,260 --> 00:10:00,740
And I noticed that there was,
391
00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:02,380
you would,
392
00:10:02,380 --> 00:10:04,600
you would get into some level of specificity.
393
00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:05,320
Right.
394
00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,700
So instead of being overly broad,
395
00:10:08,940 --> 00:10:12,580
it' s trying to find some level of specificity and
396
00:10:12,580 --> 00:10:13,140
it could be,
397
00:10:13,220 --> 00:10:17,860
it could be an experience that somebody had that
398
00:10:17,860 --> 00:10:18,340
you discover.
399
00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:18,940
It might be,
400
00:10:18,940 --> 00:10:20,080
I call it a light- up question.
401
00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:20,800
So,
402
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:21,700
you know,
403
00:10:21,700 --> 00:10:23,180
you find something that' s going to light somebody
404
00:10:23,180 --> 00:10:24,320
up and it'
405
00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:25,920
s not meant to be nefarious to try to bring
406
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:26,980
somebody over to your side.
407
00:10:27,100 --> 00:10:27,280
It'
408
00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:27,780
s more like,
409
00:10:27,820 --> 00:10:27,920
no,
410
00:10:27,980 --> 00:10:29,300
I' m actually interested in this.
411
00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:30,280
I often,
412
00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:31,060
when I get bios,
413
00:10:31,140 --> 00:10:32,720
I actually look at the bottom of the bio first
414
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,660
because I can figure out what a CEO does.
415
00:10:34,780 --> 00:10:36,020
I can figure out what a CMO does,
416
00:10:36,260 --> 00:10:38,420
but I' m more interested in what drives them.
417
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:40,500
And so part of it was learned.
418
00:10:40,580 --> 00:10:41,860
But then I think that,
419
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,140
I think it' s a lot of it is listening and
420
00:10:44,140 --> 00:10:48,480
observing and a lot of everything in life is,
421
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:49,260
is a word problem.
422
00:10:49,660 --> 00:10:50,060
Right.
423
00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:50,305
And it'
424
00:10:50,305 --> 00:10:53,620
s parsing out what is going to be something that,
425
00:10:53,620 --> 00:10:54,780
that might be unique or different.
426
00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:55,415
And so it'
427
00:10:55,415 --> 00:10:55,880
s a lot of,
428
00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,133
it' s a lot of listening and observing and you'
429
00:10:58,133 --> 00:10:59,080
re not always going to get it right.
430
00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:00,433
But that'
431
00:11:00,433 --> 00:11:01,380
s the thing that I noticed.
432
00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:02,360
So like Martin Sorrell,
433
00:11:02,420 --> 00:11:02,940
for example,
434
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,860
I know what Martin Sorrell is.
435
00:11:06,940 --> 00:11:07,700
I know what he does,
436
00:11:07,740 --> 00:11:09,980
but where we met was like,
437
00:11:10,100 --> 00:11:10,280
Hey,
438
00:11:10,300 --> 00:11:13,920
he had just had his daughter and his family just
439
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:14,440
had a daughter.
440
00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:15,120
And I said,
441
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:15,680
how' s your daughter?
442
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:16,680
And we talked about that.
443
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:18,080
And that' s quite frankly,
444
00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:19,140
that' s more interesting to me.
445
00:11:19,500 --> 00:11:19,860
Yeah.
446
00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:20,960
You know,
447
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:22,480
he' s showing me pictures and it was awesome.
448
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:22,920
Like,
449
00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:23,380
and it' s like,
450
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:23,540
yeah,
451
00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:24,140
I get it.
452
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:25,020
Like I do as a,
453
00:11:25,020 --> 00:11:25,500
as a journalist,
454
00:11:25,580 --> 00:11:26,780
I have a responsibility to that.
455
00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:28,000
But,
456
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:28,400
you know,
457
00:11:28,420 --> 00:11:29,860
I told Mark Pritchard this once too,
458
00:11:29,980 --> 00:11:33,660
as I get really fucking name droppy on this.
459
00:11:33,680 --> 00:11:34,440
I was going to say.
460
00:11:34,820 --> 00:11:37,760
But I was in Cincinnati for an Adweek event over
461
00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:38,380
in Covington.
462
00:11:38,580 --> 00:11:40,460
And I went to,
463
00:11:40,460 --> 00:11:41,660
I went to Mark' s office and I said,
464
00:11:41,740 --> 00:11:42,400
you know,
465
00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,380
I don' t ever want this to feel transactional.
466
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:44,466
I'
467
00:11:44,466 --> 00:11:45,680
d like us to get to know each other.
468
00:11:45,740 --> 00:11:47,100
I understand like the journalist,
469
00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:48,120
you know,
470
00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:49,080
journalist subject,
471
00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:50,060
right.
472
00:11:50,060 --> 00:11:50,360
And I was like,
473
00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:50,360
I don' I want to be in a relationship,
474
00:11:50,560 --> 00:11:51,540
but I,
475
00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:53,520
I' m really just more interested in you getting to
476
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:53,820
know me.
477
00:11:54,220 --> 00:11:55,240
And like,
478
00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:56,920
I think that' s it.
479
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:57,490
And that'
480
00:11:57,490 --> 00:11:57,860
s just,
481
00:11:57,940 --> 00:11:58,560
it' s more fun.
482
00:11:59,020 --> 00:11:59,600
And it'
483
00:11:59,600 --> 00:11:59,900
s just,
484
00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:01,860
you just end up getting better stuff.
485
00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:02,180
And yeah,
486
00:12:02,220 --> 00:12:02,580
you know what?
487
00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:03,380
Life is a mullet.
488
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:03,546
You'
489
00:12:03,546 --> 00:12:05,080
re going to have to do some business up front,
490
00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:06,700
but it' s just,
491
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:07,340
you know,
492
00:12:07,340 --> 00:12:07,900
we can,
493
00:12:07,900 --> 00:12:08,700
we can get to that.
494
00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:09,280
But,
495
00:12:09,340 --> 00:12:12,000
and the thing about Mark was I' d always really
496
00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:12,760
respected them,
497
00:12:12,780 --> 00:12:15,020
but then he did a speech at ad color.
498
00:12:15,580 --> 00:12:17,220
One of the best conferences out there.
499
00:12:17,220 --> 00:12:18,540
Shout out to Tiffany Warren,
500
00:12:18,700 --> 00:12:20,040
Tiffany R Warren.
501
00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:22,000
It'
502
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,400
s he had given a speech about his Hispanic
503
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,180
heritage and,
504
00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:27,460
and how he' s,
505
00:12:27,460 --> 00:12:27,740
you know,
506
00:12:27,740 --> 00:12:27,810
he' I'
507
00:12:27,810 --> 00:12:28,880
m not shying away from anymore.
508
00:12:28,980 --> 00:12:30,080
And this is the truth.
509
00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:30,660
And I would say,
510
00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:31,880
I said this to him in person,
511
00:12:31,940 --> 00:12:33,120
I would say this publicly to anyone.
512
00:12:33,420 --> 00:12:34,880
I always respected you,
513
00:12:34,940 --> 00:12:36,180
but after that speech,
514
00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:37,280
I really admired you.
515
00:12:37,980 --> 00:12:38,380
And,
516
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,920
and I think that those are the things that as we
517
00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,320
build relationships that are professional within this
518
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:43,720
industry,
519
00:12:43,820 --> 00:12:46,780
trying to find some of those places where we can
520
00:12:46,780 --> 00:12:48,900
make it a lot more human.
521
00:12:49,180 --> 00:12:51,820
And that goes across the board with anybody.
522
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:52,200
It doesn'
523
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:54,380
t matter if you are a chief brand officer for
524
00:12:54,380 --> 00:12:55,793
Procter & Gamble or you'
525
00:12:55,793 --> 00:12:57,580
re a junior creative in Kansas City.
526
00:12:58,800 --> 00:12:59,280
Yeah.
527
00:12:59,380 --> 00:13:02,700
That s so interesting that a simple question when
528
00:13:02,700 --> 00:13:03,140
asked,
529
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:03,800
you know,
530
00:13:03,820 --> 00:13:05,760
at the right time at the right moment in the
531
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,660
right way can change your perspective on a person
532
00:13:09,660 --> 00:13:11,840
or a brand even.
533
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:12,360
I think,
534
00:13:12,380 --> 00:13:12,680
you know,
535
00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:14,700
questions are a big part of our strategy.
536
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,660
We do a whole CQ session.
537
00:13:16,660 --> 00:13:18,420
Where we dig really deep.
538
00:13:18,540 --> 00:13:19,020
Yeah.
539
00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:20,580
Into the brand and the business.
540
00:13:20,700 --> 00:13:21,193
And that'
541
00:13:21,193 --> 00:13:23,180
s where we can get to some of those like human
542
00:13:23,180 --> 00:13:27,260
elements and pull some of that purpose out of a
543
00:13:27,260 --> 00:13:27,520
brand.
544
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:28,460
So I love that.
545
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,100
You just gave like so many great points there.
546
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:31,940
Light up question.
547
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:33,380
I love that.
548
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:33,680
Like,
549
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:34,780
what' s the one question you'
550
00:13:34,780 --> 00:13:35,413
re going to ask that'
551
00:13:35,413 --> 00:13:36,880
s going to light up that person?
552
00:13:37,220 --> 00:13:39,760
And I m going to need like a motivational poster
553
00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:41,730
in my new office when we move that says, '
554
00:13:41,730 --> 00:13:42,750
Life is a mullet.'
555
00:13:42,750 --> 00:13:43,075
Like,
556
00:13:43,075 --> 00:13:44,375
that' s just...
557
00:13:44,375 --> 00:13:45,640
the cat hanging from...
558
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:46,420
Perfect.
559
00:13:46,660 --> 00:13:47,000
Perfect.
560
00:13:47,260 --> 00:13:48,100
All right.
561
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:48,328
Let'
562
00:13:48,328 --> 00:13:48,980
s go back to the board.
563
00:13:49,660 --> 00:13:50,300
Four.
564
00:13:51,100 --> 00:13:52,380
Number four.
565
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,140
So you were also...
566
00:13:55,140 --> 00:13:55,400
Oh,
567
00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:55,400
shit.
568
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,160
I loved this project.
569
00:13:58,840 --> 00:13:59,760
Alright.
570
00:13:59,780 --> 00:14:03,460
So you were a speechwriter for UPS CMO Kevin
571
00:14:03,460 --> 00:14:03,880
Warren.
572
00:14:04,180 --> 00:14:04,620
Yeah.
573
00:14:04,660 --> 00:14:08,620
What is one thing that you learned about CMOs by
574
00:14:08,620 --> 00:14:10,500
embodying his voice?
575
00:14:10,900 --> 00:14:11,326
I'
576
00:14:11,326 --> 00:14:12,120
m so proud.
577
00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:13,533
One of the things I'
578
00:14:13,533 --> 00:14:14,300
m most proud of.
579
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:14,800
And.
580
00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:15,440
And actually,
581
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:18,140
I did work on his...
582
00:14:18,140 --> 00:14:19,780
it was a campaign.
583
00:14:20,180 --> 00:14:22,280
Brand purpose leader of the year.
584
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:22,640
And,
585
00:14:22,740 --> 00:14:23,100
you know,
586
00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:24,200
that I' m really proud of Kevin.
587
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,700
I just loved working with him and his team.
588
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,160
Betsy and the rest of the team there at UPS.
589
00:14:31,719 --> 00:14:33,440
I think what I learned
590
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:34,140
And it,
591
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:34,640
you know,
592
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:35,560
some of it goes back to Mark,
593
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:35,820
right?
594
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:36,780
Understanding the story,
595
00:14:36,980 --> 00:14:38,140
understanding the motivations.
596
00:14:39,380 --> 00:14:39,820
Understanding.
597
00:14:40,580 --> 00:14:41,920
How to balance.
598
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:43,240
Again,
599
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:43,540
it does.
600
00:14:43,540 --> 00:14:44,900
It does go back to the mullet thing.
601
00:14:44,980 --> 00:14:45,180
It was like,
602
00:14:45,220 --> 00:14:46,680
how are you balancing this out?
603
00:14:46,980 --> 00:14:48,200
I think that.
604
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,560
Especially leaders in this industry.
605
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:54,700
Get so over- programmed.
606
00:14:55,540 --> 00:14:57,640
They get so over- handled.
607
00:14:58,460 --> 00:14:58,940
That.
608
00:14:59,420 --> 00:15:00,040
You know,
609
00:15:00,060 --> 00:15:02,520
you could have an AI create something and,
610
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:02,680
and,
611
00:15:02,820 --> 00:15:03,240
you know,
612
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:03,660
some people,
613
00:15:03,700 --> 00:15:03,940
you know,
614
00:15:03,980 --> 00:15:05,340
that that' s how some people would.
615
00:15:05,780 --> 00:15:06,200
Wouldn'
616
00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:07,060
t want to approach it.
617
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,640
But I think it was balancing story,
618
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:10,440
passion.
619
00:15:11,700 --> 00:15:12,840
Growing a business.
620
00:15:13,380 --> 00:15:14,760
Growing a brand.
621
00:15:15,660 --> 00:15:16,620
Understanding history.
622
00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:18,480
Understanding the importance of,
623
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,514
of this person' s history and Kevin'
624
00:15:20,514 --> 00:15:20,940
s case.
625
00:15:21,060 --> 00:15:23,500
It was Xerox for a number of years.
626
00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:26,090
Where we do part company is he'
627
00:15:26,090 --> 00:15:26,160
s a,
628
00:15:26,220 --> 00:15:27,380
he' s a Dallas Cowboys fan,
629
00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:27,680
which,
630
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,040
which makes me sad as a Philadelphia Eagles fan.
631
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:31,020
I did.
632
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,240
I clearly did not include that in the speech.
633
00:15:33,340 --> 00:15:37,820
So I flew from Portland to DC and stayed in
634
00:15:37,820 --> 00:15:40,140
Alexandria before I took the train down to Richmond
635
00:15:40,140 --> 00:15:41,360
to go to go to Martin.
636
00:15:42,060 --> 00:15:46,880
And I spent from 6:00 AM to 8:00 PM,
637
00:15:47,460 --> 00:15:50,240
and one day in the hotel room working on this
638
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,160
because I wanted to – what I wanted to do is you
639
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:56,560
need to think of it also in a way where you' re
640
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:57,900
capturing a flow,
641
00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:58,920
a real logic.
642
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:00,360
So a beginning,
643
00:16:00,460 --> 00:16:00,680
a middle,
644
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:01,320
and an end.
645
00:16:02,439 --> 00:16:05,360
And so the PA it pacing on its really important
646
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:06,420
using human language,
647
00:16:06,460 --> 00:16:08,920
but also acknowledging,
648
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:10,440
there are people who appreciate more corporate
649
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:10,800
language.
650
00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:11,470
So I think it'
651
00:16:11,470 --> 00:16:12,380
s what I learned is.
652
00:16:12,380 --> 00:16:12,540
I think that,
653
00:16:12,540 --> 00:16:13,040
and what it' s really important is how can you
654
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:13,920
find balance in it?
655
00:16:14,180 --> 00:16:16,040
How can you balance the person with the
656
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:16,420
professional?
657
00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:19,500
And Kevin was just an absolute joy to work with,
658
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:20,920
absolute,
659
00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,240
absolute joy to work with.
660
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:22,720
And again,
661
00:16:22,780 --> 00:16:23,800
Betsy and the whole team.
662
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:24,200
There,
663
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:25,640
yeah,
664
00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:26,100
honestly,
665
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:26,630
that' s it'
666
00:16:26,630 --> 00:16:27,530
s a top three project I'
667
00:16:27,530 --> 00:16:27,940
ve ever done.
668
00:16:28,220 --> 00:16:28,620
Wow.
669
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:29,400
Wow.
670
00:16:29,500 --> 00:16:29,733
That'
671
00:16:29,733 --> 00:16:29,960
s cool.
672
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,000
Have you written any other speeches for anybody
673
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:32,440
else?
674
00:16:32,460 --> 00:16:34,540
Or was that like a once-in-a- lifetime thing?
675
00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:36,280
Daughter,
676
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,420
trying to explain to her math teacher why she' s
677
00:16:39,420 --> 00:16:40,160
not doing her homework.
678
00:16:41,219 --> 00:16:41,699
Well,
679
00:16:41,699 --> 00:16:44,020
do you still have the speech; is it written down
680
00:16:44,020 --> 00:16:44,480
somewhere?
681
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:45,840
No,
682
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:46,960
oh man,
683
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:48,020
that' s a bummer!
684
00:16:48,020 --> 00:16:50,100
I would love to see the original manuscript of
685
00:16:50,100 --> 00:16:50,300
that.
686
00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:50,800
Well,
687
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:51,140
I mean,
688
00:16:51,140 --> 00:16:52,945
the first version was listen motherf**cker,
689
00:16:52,945 --> 00:16:53,160
calm,
690
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:54,620
and that didn' t really work.
691
00:16:54,620 --> 00:16:55,472
I don'
692
00:16:55,472 --> 00:16:56,900
t think you want to say that to a teacher,
693
00:16:56,900 --> 00:16:59,180
but they frown upon that usually; yeah,
694
00:16:59,180 --> 00:17:00,500
oh man,
695
00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:01,900
what a beautiful story!
696
00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:02,340
Yeah,
697
00:17:02,340 --> 00:17:02,500
no,
698
00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:03,120
Kevin' s great,
699
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:04,940
and I just he is just,
700
00:17:04,940 --> 00:17:05,480
he' s a pro,
701
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:06,203
and that.
702
00:17:06,203 --> 00:17:06,760
Is that the thing too,
703
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:11,140
and you you know this too Ashley is that you have
704
00:17:11,140 --> 00:17:14,579
professionals that are in the business and then you
705
00:17:14,579 --> 00:17:15,460
look at somebody and go,
706
00:17:15,460 --> 00:17:16,099
that' s a pro,
707
00:17:16,099 --> 00:17:17,819
what do you think the difference is?
708
00:17:17,819 --> 00:17:20,220
You know like you know it when you see it and
709
00:17:20,220 --> 00:17:24,380
you feel it; a willingness to talk about things
710
00:17:24,380 --> 00:17:25,099
other than work.
711
00:17:25,099 --> 00:17:27,900
Damon Jones at P &G is the same; talk about
712
00:17:27,900 --> 00:17:28,680
things other than work.
713
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:30,806
He went to Xavier and so I'
714
00:17:30,806 --> 00:17:31,420
m a Philly guy,
715
00:17:31,420 --> 00:17:35,040
so like I wanted to bet on Xavier in Villanova in
716
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:35,380
basketball,
717
00:17:35,380 --> 00:17:37,360
and it' s like you just got to meet again,
718
00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:37,940
meet somewhere,
719
00:17:37,940 --> 00:17:39,140
meet somewhere,
720
00:17:39,140 --> 00:17:41,560
and and you' re not always going to get it right,
721
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,580
and it' s not always going to be the right vibe;
722
00:17:43,580 --> 00:17:43,715
it'
723
00:17:43,715 --> 00:17:44,350
s not.
724
00:17:44,350 --> 00:17:45,116
Timing isn'
725
00:17:45,116 --> 00:17:45,440
t a thing; it'
726
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:45,992
s like you can'
727
00:17:45,992 --> 00:17:47,280
t put a timeline on all this.
728
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:47,400
It'
729
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:47,913
s like well if I
730
00:17:47,913 --> 00:17:49,160
m going to meet with Mark Richard and Damon Jones
731
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:50,240
I need to do x y and z it'
732
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,580
s like well if they ask you for that yeah but
733
00:17:52,580 --> 00:17:52,772
don'
734
00:17:52,772 --> 00:17:53,056
t but don'
735
00:17:53,056 --> 00:17:55,825
t put an expectation or a timeline on it it'
736
00:17:55,825 --> 00:17:59,833
s like just just be just be right you'
737
00:17:59,833 --> 00:18:01,584
re really good at that let'
738
00:18:01,584 --> 00:18:03,604
s go have pizza and can let'
739
00:18:03,604 --> 00:18:04,164
s let'
740
00:18:04,164 --> 00:18:04,566
s just I'
741
00:18:04,566 --> 00:18:04,920
d rather have pizza and can let'
742
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:04,920
s just have pizza and can let'
743
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:04,920
s just have pizza and can let'
744
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:06,768
s just have chili in Cincinnati we'
745
00:18:06,768 --> 00:18:10,380
re going to make that happen all right back to
746
00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:11,308
the game board let'
747
00:18:11,308 --> 00:18:19,240
s go nine number nine all right so I love this
748
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:20,704
so we'
749
00:18:20,704 --> 00:18:23,400
re lucky enough to be matched with the Icelandic
750
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:26,350
agency Brandenburg through your sister agency'
751
00:18:26,350 --> 00:18:27,533
s program which I hope you'
752
00:18:27,533 --> 00:18:28,700
ll talk about yes,
753
00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:31,840
what do you think us shops can learn from each
754
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:32,080
other,
755
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,060
even you know on the other side of the world so
756
00:18:35,060 --> 00:18:35,480
to speak.
757
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:36,880
Oh my god,
758
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:38,400
I love this story so much.
759
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:39,360
So,
760
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:43,520
my degree is in international studies um it' s it
761
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:43,900
is,
762
00:18:43,900 --> 00:18:46,420
I have a business minor that I didn' t do very
763
00:18:46,420 --> 00:18:46,720
well,
764
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,200
especially the finance and accounting side of it uh
765
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,360
and I have a French minor which was that was,
766
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,760
that' s what I affectionately called the GPA saver.
767
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,760
I for some reason had had a proficiency at it,
768
00:18:57,760 --> 00:18:59,760
and so when you go to a school like that,
769
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,080
the thinking is I' ll go to grad school or I'
770
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,800
ll take my foreign service exam um and maybe go
771
00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:07,080
work in government,
772
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:12,100
and it was you know it wasn' t work out until I
773
00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:14,700
moved to Portland and fell in love with this
774
00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:15,040
place,
775
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,340
and I it - but in the back of my mind,
776
00:19:17,340 --> 00:19:20,640
I' ve always loved um,
777
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,920
I' ve always loved matching people up just to just
778
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:25,840
to get to know each other.
779
00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:28,660
I think I had a Swedish pen pal in Minnesota when
780
00:19:28,660 --> 00:19:29,180
I was a kid,
781
00:19:29,180 --> 00:19:30,720
and you know,
782
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:32,440
back when you were writing um,
783
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,420
if memory serves,
784
00:19:34,780 --> 00:19:35,020
um.
785
00:19:35,020 --> 00:19:36,400
But,
786
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:37,720
but I always loved that,
787
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:42,140
and I think that trying to find a common humanity
788
00:19:42,140 --> 00:19:44,440
in the face of a tremendous amount of difference
789
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:48,040
in the world in things like art,
790
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:49,380
sports,
791
00:19:49,380 --> 00:19:50,860
culture,
792
00:19:50,860 --> 00:19:52,540
food,
793
00:19:52,540 --> 00:19:54,080
music,
794
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,020
like all of these things that feed us as human
795
00:19:57,020 --> 00:19:59,300
beings; take out politics,
796
00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:01,360
take out conflict now.
797
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:01,664
You can'
798
00:20:01,664 --> 00:20:03,200
t be ignorant of it,
799
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,005
obviously can't.
800
00:20:05,005 --> 00:20:07,700
Understanding building a baseline of understanding
801
00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:11,960
and then you can get to business now it may
802
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:16,000
happen quicker than in other places but the story
803
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,760
behind behind the Sister City program was simply to
804
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,240
get our members together at India agency news and
805
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:25,260
what I was noticing was,
806
00:20:25,260 --> 00:20:25,940
oh okay,
807
00:20:25,940 --> 00:20:27,100
we' re in this market,
808
00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:27,760
we' re in this market,
809
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:28,320
we' re in this market,
810
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:29,680
so why don' t I just,
811
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,060
why don' t I take the markets and just start
812
00:20:32,060 --> 00:20:33,905
mixing them together?
813
00:20:33,905 --> 00:20:36,315
As Pittsburgh,
814
00:20:36,315 --> 00:20:38,840
I think Philly,
815
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:39,680
but,
816
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:40,540
but he was,
817
00:20:40,540 --> 00:20:42,260
and Brandenburg.
818
00:20:42,260 --> 00:20:42,800
By the way,
819
00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:47,500
I used to cover them in Ad Week; I fucking love
820
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:48,240
this agency!
821
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,120
So they used to send me stuff,
822
00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:53,020
and you know Griner was part of this too,
823
00:20:53,020 --> 00:20:53,110
he.
824
00:20:53,110 --> 00:20:53,555
Like,
825
00:20:53,555 --> 00:20:54,000
hey,
826
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,000
this seems up your alley.
827
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:55,120
It'
828
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:57,060
s an Icelandic agency called Brandenburg.
829
00:20:57,060 --> 00:20:57,580
I was like, '
830
00:20:57,580 --> 00:20:57,940
Oh yeah,
831
00:20:57,940 --> 00:21:00,280
it' s a hundred percent cut of my jib.'
832
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,320
And so they sent me something for the Reykjavik
833
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,600
Marathon which was really fun and then they did
834
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,900
the rebrand for the Icelandic Football Association,
835
00:21:07,900 --> 00:21:09,594
the soccer team men' s and women'
836
00:21:09,594 --> 00:21:09,840
s teams.
837
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:10,520
Beautiful,
838
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:11,300
great story.
839
00:21:11,300 --> 00:21:13,740
I used to argue with Grinder like this is the
840
00:21:13,740 --> 00:21:14,260
best campaign.
841
00:21:14,260 --> 00:21:15,420
I forget what year it was,
842
00:21:15,420 --> 00:21:16,463
he' s like '
843
00:21:16,463 --> 00:21:16,626
Fine,
844
00:21:16,626 --> 00:21:17,820
I' ll put it at number five'
845
00:21:17,820 --> 00:21:19,708
but they'
846
00:21:19,708 --> 00:21:20,040
re but they'
847
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:20,900
Are such great people,
848
00:21:20,900 --> 00:21:21,340
really?
849
00:21:21,340 --> 00:21:24,400
The design is so interesting and they have such an
850
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:25,446
interesting point of view.
851
00:21:25,446 --> 00:21:27,260
And I just genuinely like them,
852
00:21:27,260 --> 00:21:31,280
and so going to go back and forth to Can it was
853
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:32,060
all on my dime.
854
00:21:32,060 --> 00:21:33,100
Um,
855
00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:35,580
I flew from Portland to Reykjavik to Reykjavik,
856
00:21:35,580 --> 00:21:35,840
nice,
857
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:36,840
and then up to Paris,
858
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:37,320
and then back,
859
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,840
and so you use miles so I did a little stay
860
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:40,120
over.
861
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:40,753
And I'
862
00:21:40,753 --> 00:21:42,180
d always wanted them to be part of this,
863
00:21:42,180 --> 00:21:44,780
and on the way back,
864
00:21:44,780 --> 00:21:47,920
I had spent time with their uh at their office.
865
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:48,900
I said, '
866
00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:48,960
Yeah,
867
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:50,920
we' re doing this sister city thing.'
868
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,340
There were five of them in there,
869
00:21:53,340 --> 00:21:55,420
and one of them...
870
00:21:55,420 --> 00:21:55,740
Uh,
871
00:21:55,740 --> 00:21:57,380
we were all sitting there,
872
00:21:57,380 --> 00:21:58,556
and I said, ' You know this is what we'
873
00:21:58,556 --> 00:21:58,740
re doing?
874
00:21:58,740 --> 00:21:59,623
What'
875
00:21:59,623 --> 00:22:00,150
s what?'
876
00:22:00,150 --> 00:22:01,220
As a city or a market,
877
00:22:01,220 --> 00:22:01,840
I would want to do.
878
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,480
And the one of the more quieter guys in the room
879
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,890
says Cincinnati and I went '
880
00:22:07,890 --> 00:22:08,580
what'
881
00:22:08,580 --> 00:22:10,820
and he said football.
882
00:22:10,820 --> 00:22:12,620
It took me a second,
883
00:22:12,620 --> 00:22:17,140
I went you' re a Bengals fan it was yeah huge!
884
00:22:17,140 --> 00:22:18,640
I said well,
885
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,640
curiosity got the better of me,
886
00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,280
and so that' s how it legitimately started with
887
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,820
that who day and yeah,
888
00:22:26,820 --> 00:22:28,040
and um,
889
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,440
and I just said yeah,
890
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:31,720
done!
891
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,565
And it'
892
00:22:33,565 --> 00:22:35,160
s been awesome meeting them,
893
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:35,320
yeah.
894
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,060
And you got a chance to meet them right?
895
00:22:37,739 --> 00:22:38,179
Yes,
896
00:22:38,179 --> 00:22:38,620
yeah.
897
00:22:38,620 --> 00:22:40,340
A couple of weeks ago we have another meeting
898
00:22:40,340 --> 00:22:40,980
coming up,
899
00:22:40,980 --> 00:22:43,480
we' re gonna do some visits hopefully,
900
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,820
we' ll get to get them out here for a game,
901
00:22:45,820 --> 00:22:47,600
some chili.
902
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,780
re excited yeah and i think the the main goal of
903
00:22:50,780 --> 00:22:53,620
this is is simply what those types of outreach
904
00:22:53,620 --> 00:22:56,600
programs traditionally in the you know the 50s 60s
905
00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,220
70s were like and it was to simplify the idea of
906
00:23:00,220 --> 00:23:01,100
bridging cultures and the idea of bridging cultures
907
00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:01,480
and the idea of bridging cultures and getting a
908
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,300
chance to build a better understanding with each
909
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:06,575
other and you can do that digitally but it'
910
00:23:06,575 --> 00:23:07,530
s more important it'
911
00:23:07,530 --> 00:23:09,620
s more important to do it digitally in a form
912
00:23:09,620 --> 00:23:13,140
factor that is also human which means we'
913
00:23:13,140 --> 00:23:14,920
d like you to all interact with each other
914
00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,940
visually we want you to see each other we want
915
00:23:17,940 --> 00:23:19,800
you to talk to each other we want you to send
916
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,140
each other care packages like you know with
917
00:23:22,140 --> 00:23:22,685
pittsburgh it'
918
00:23:22,685 --> 00:23:25,980
s like send out frozen pierogies to seattle seattle
919
00:23:25,980 --> 00:23:31,860
send send mclemore out you know whatever so very
920
00:23:31,860 --> 00:23:34,260
very very cool yeah it'
921
00:23:34,260 --> 00:23:35,956
s been a fun program and hopefully we'
922
00:23:35,956 --> 00:23:38,920
All kind of like journal along our journey and
923
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:39,600
share maybe,
924
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,360
we' ll even collab on a project or something,
925
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:41,600
I hope,
926
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:42,920
I hope so,
927
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,060
and ultimately that' s the hope because you know
928
00:23:46,060 --> 00:23:46,236
let'
929
00:23:46,236 --> 00:23:48,200
s say that there is a brand out there that you'
930
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:48,930
re working with and it'
931
00:23:48,930 --> 00:23:50,740
s like you know what you know,
932
00:23:50,740 --> 00:23:53,460
maybe maybe the design sensibility of these cats
933
00:23:53,460 --> 00:23:57,020
and Reykjavik are just what this needs so yeah
934
00:23:57,020 --> 00:23:59,920
that would make me happy all right we' ll keep
935
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:00,360
you posted,
936
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:05,486
let' s go back to the board 11 so you'
937
00:24:05,486 --> 00:24:08,820
ve spent over 15 years being an adjunct professor
938
00:24:08,820 --> 00:24:10,480
at various colleges i'
939
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:11,240
m curious,
940
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,240
being with the youth,
941
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,240
what do I think this next generation can teach us
942
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:18,840
about marketing and advertising?
943
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:19,600
Right,
944
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:20,440
um,
945
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,780
I think they can teach us...
946
00:24:28,020 --> 00:24:30,460
there are a lot of things I think it'
947
00:24:30,460 --> 00:24:30,540
s,
948
00:24:30,540 --> 00:24:32,380
I think they can teach us a certain point of
949
00:24:32,380 --> 00:24:32,640
view.
950
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,160
I think they can teach us things so from practical
951
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:36,660
perspective,
952
00:24:36,660 --> 00:24:40,060
the effective use of platforms in ways that can be
953
00:24:40,060 --> 00:24:45,360
very creative and impactful and attractive to to
954
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:47,800
people and consumers and brands.
955
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:53,420
I think that point of view is always going to be
956
00:24:53,420 --> 00:24:55,560
the thing what is your point of view?
957
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:55,928
And don'
958
00:24:55,928 --> 00:24:58,215
t look at it on a cohort level; it'
959
00:24:58,215 --> 00:24:59,140
s your point of view.
960
00:24:59,140 --> 00:25:01,640
What do you think about it...
961
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,460
all of students say,
962
00:25:03,460 --> 00:25:04,520
well Gen Z says this,
963
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:05,680
I said yep cool,
964
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:11,180
you' re gen z what what do you think and then
965
00:25:11,180 --> 00:25:15,120
you start getting to the essence of it so i think
966
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:19,340
they can teach us a lot in terms of the craft
967
00:25:19,340 --> 00:25:19,756
isn'
968
00:25:19,756 --> 00:25:23,960
t the right word for it but producing things in
969
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,040
interesting ways using the platforms that are
970
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:30,260
afforded to us what i also think is our
971
00:25:30,260 --> 00:25:31,100
responsibility is to be able to teach us a lot of
972
00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:31,100
things and to be able to teach us a lot of
973
00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:31,540
things and to be able to be able to teach us a
974
00:25:31,540 --> 00:25:31,540
lot of things and to be able to teach us a lot
975
00:25:31,540 --> 00:25:33,480
of things and to be able to not wax poetic and
976
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:38,668
sentimental about what it used to be that there'
977
00:25:38,668 --> 00:25:40,122
s always there'
978
00:25:40,122 --> 00:25:45,000
s always a used to be um that should contextualize
979
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,900
things you know and sure i wax sentimental that
980
00:25:48,900 --> 00:25:51,860
shit all the time um but but it'
981
00:25:51,860 --> 00:25:51,880
I'
982
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:53,820
m not to the point where it gets in the way of
983
00:25:53,820 --> 00:25:54,280
you know,
984
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,620
I' m gonna do it the way I did it for you,
985
00:25:56,620 --> 00:25:59,660
yeah I was 15,
986
00:25:59,660 --> 00:26:00,280
that' s weird,
987
00:26:01,100 --> 00:26:02,320
good thing to say um,
988
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,920
but I think that it' s our responsibility to teach
989
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:07,680
some of the foundational pieces and then we grow
990
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,975
together so I think it'
991
00:26:09,975 --> 00:26:12,500
s less about what they can teach us but what can
992
00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:15,035
they add to it right and it'
993
00:26:15,035 --> 00:26:15,590
s everybody'
994
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:17,660
s responsibility and yeah we can get into this
995
00:26:17,660 --> 00:26:19,020
bull***t about cohorts i mean I'
996
00:26:19,020 --> 00:26:20,420
m as Gen X as it gets,
997
00:26:20,420 --> 00:26:23,380
right if you if you want to go down that route,
998
00:26:23,380 --> 00:26:24,600
yeah um,
999
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,360
but at the same time we all we all have to push
1000
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:31,220
this together and we all have something to
1001
00:26:31,220 --> 00:26:34,540
contribute to this and if we start trying to silo
1002
00:26:34,540 --> 00:26:37,080
this stuff we re all fucked eight ways to friday
1003
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,446
that'
1004
00:26:39,446 --> 00:26:41,160
s the truth do you think there'
1005
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,160
s any do you talk at all about like work from
1006
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,800
home work from the office and you know we kind of
1007
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,700
all grew up beginning being in the office more
1008
00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:53,260
than 40 hours a week and and not that we ever
1009
00:26:53,260 --> 00:26:55,520
need to go back to that but do you think is that
1010
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,500
our is the next generation missing out at all by
1011
00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:01,060
not having that same in office that you'
1012
00:27:01,060 --> 00:27:01,316
re in right now and what'
1013
00:27:01,316 --> 00:27:03,380
s your experience that we had so here'
1014
00:27:03,380 --> 00:27:03,703
s what'
1015
00:27:03,703 --> 00:27:05,096
s weird about me and you'
1016
00:27:05,096 --> 00:27:06,625
d look at this and go there'
1017
00:27:06,625 --> 00:27:08,820
s no way that you are this so i'
1018
00:27:08,820 --> 00:27:10,066
m actually an introvert i'
1019
00:27:10,066 --> 00:27:10,366
m what'
1020
00:27:10,366 --> 00:27:10,793
s called i'
1021
00:27:10,793 --> 00:27:12,606
m an infp dash a i'
1022
00:27:12,606 --> 00:27:14,406
m an assertive introvert i'
1023
00:27:14,406 --> 00:27:15,230
m also what'
1024
00:27:15,230 --> 00:27:18,960
s called a mediator and so it fits what i'
1025
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:24,464
m doing right now perfectly um so i don'
1026
00:27:24,464 --> 00:27:25,884
t and and i don'
1027
00:27:25,884 --> 00:27:27,040
t mean to be cavalier about it but i'
1028
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:28,906
ve worked from home since 2007 so i'
1029
00:27:28,906 --> 00:27:33,213
m used to this um so i would say that i'
1030
00:27:33,213 --> 00:27:35,183
m probably more programmed like somebody that'
1031
00:27:35,183 --> 00:27:35,760
s younger that'
1032
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:36,070
s that'
1033
00:27:36,070 --> 00:27:37,326
s now that'
1034
00:27:37,326 --> 00:27:37,816
s that'
1035
00:27:37,816 --> 00:27:42,480
s now working from home more um but i will say
1036
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:47,540
yes they are yes those interactions um those
1037
00:27:47,540 --> 00:27:50,220
interactions matter and i think we need to go past
1038
00:27:50,220 --> 00:27:52,980
the bullshit thing of saying well you know things
1039
00:27:52,980 --> 00:27:54,095
around the water cooler it'
1040
00:27:54,095 --> 00:27:54,660
s like what'
1041
00:27:54,660 --> 00:27:59,120
s the water cooler dad um my stanley is like 64
1042
00:27:59,120 --> 00:27:59,960
ounces i don'
1043
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:07,220
t need a water cooler call again stanley 64 000
1044
00:28:07,220 --> 00:28:10,568
um i i think there'
1045
00:28:10,568 --> 00:28:13,080
I think there is a mess on that,
1046
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,360
but now the opportunity is how can you do this in
1047
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:20,420
a way that doesn' t feel overly structured and,
1048
00:28:20,420 --> 00:28:24,240
I think the best if you are going to have people
1049
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:25,200
into the office,
1050
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,580
I think it' s it'
1051
00:28:27,580 --> 00:28:28,240
s a three-two,
1052
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:28,940
you know,
1053
00:28:28,940 --> 00:28:30,920
pick the three days you want to come in and yeah
1054
00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:32,080
two that you don' t.
1055
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,340
And we do you know there are companies that do
1056
00:28:35,340 --> 00:28:36,660
Mondays at home,
1057
00:28:36,660 --> 00:28:37,480
Tuesday,
1058
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:37,880
Wednesday,
1059
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:38,720
Thursday at the office,
1060
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:39,440
Friday at home,
1061
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:40,060
yeah,
1062
00:28:40,060 --> 00:28:41,220
that feels right to me,
1063
00:28:41,220 --> 00:28:43,460
that does feel right to me.
1064
00:28:43,460 --> 00:28:46,080
And just make that Tuesday,
1065
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:46,560
Wednesday,
1066
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:47,660
Thursday super dense,
1067
00:28:47,660 --> 00:28:50,120
yeah,
1068
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,480
but I do think they' re missing,
1069
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:53,600
yeah,
1070
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,950
but not but not so much that it' s you know it'
1071
00:28:56,950 --> 00:28:57,430
s it.
1072
00:28:57,430 --> 00:28:58,260
As a deal breaker,
1073
00:28:58,260 --> 00:28:59,180
yeah,
1074
00:28:59,180 --> 00:28:59,700
it' s just,
1075
00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:00,120
yeah,
1076
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,360
all right back to the game board,
1077
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:03,900
my friend,
1078
00:29:03,900 --> 00:29:04,720
uh,
1079
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:05,300
let' s go.
1080
00:29:05,300 --> 00:29:05,560
10,
1081
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,340
I' m gonna clear out that row.
1082
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:09,833
What'
1083
00:29:09,833 --> 00:29:11,700
s been your favorite campaign this past year?
1084
00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:14,249
I think the Alzheimer'
1085
00:29:14,249 --> 00:29:19,160
s UK from Above and Beyond with Olivia Coleman; I
1086
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,480
think that was last year.
1087
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,390
I really like that work,
1088
00:29:22,390 --> 00:29:23,200
um,
1089
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:24,820
I mean,
1090
00:29:24,820 --> 00:29:26,240
the dude white stuff is really,
1091
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,280
really fun and just thinking about our members too.
1092
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,200
I really did like that,
1093
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,120
and I' m not not just blowing smoke because I i
1094
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:34,445
think it'
1095
00:29:34,445 --> 00:29:37,660
s i think that male-centered marketing like that
1096
00:29:37,660 --> 00:29:38,515
it'
1097
00:29:38,515 --> 00:29:41,175
s hard to do and y'
1098
00:29:41,175 --> 00:29:43,180
all threaded the needle exceptionally well with that
1099
00:29:43,180 --> 00:29:46,740
uh i would say manscape did the same i would say
1100
00:29:46,740 --> 00:29:49,485
everman jack did the same so i think that there'
1101
00:29:49,485 --> 00:29:49,762
s there'
1102
00:29:49,762 --> 00:29:54,120
s some interesting spots in there i think nike is
1103
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:55,380
getting back to what it'
1104
00:29:55,380 --> 00:29:58,580
s done best i think the olympics stuff it'
1105
00:29:58,580 --> 00:30:01,880
s a little more defiant yeah i think that level
1106
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:05,760
of defiance needs to come back and i look forward
1107
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,060
to seeing what wide is going to do with that i i
1108
00:30:08,060 --> 00:30:08,717
think that they'
1109
00:30:08,717 --> 00:30:10,080
re going to sink their teeth into this and i
1110
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:10,268
think we'
1111
00:30:10,268 --> 00:30:11,156
re gonna i don'
1112
00:30:11,156 --> 00:30:11,496
t want to say we'
1113
00:30:11,496 --> 00:30:14,080
re going to get back to a heyday but i do think
1114
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,880
that that it it all that that type of advertising
1115
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,220
if you think about it had become noise because
1116
00:30:21,220 --> 00:30:26,600
underarm was doing it adidas was doing it um you
1117
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,840
know a lot of non -profits were doing it uh the
1118
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,520
the ad that changed everything was uh if you let
1119
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,880
me play in 95 for nike that changed everything and
1120
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,760
um you you see you know you see pockets of it
1121
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:46,360
everywhere and uh i do think that that that will
1122
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,680
be interesting god i i wish i wish i was prepared
1123
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,046
for this to be perfectly honest but i'
1124
00:30:53,046 --> 00:30:54,175
m not it wouldn'
1125
00:30:54,175 --> 00:30:54,940
To be honest,
1126
00:30:54,940 --> 00:30:56,470
if you showed up prepared,
1127
00:30:56,470 --> 00:30:58,800
I mean I think the night that Nike worked was
1128
00:30:58,800 --> 00:30:59,360
really good too.
1129
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,040
I know at least in my house we talked a lot
1130
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,320
about it and and how they they just had such a
1131
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:04,580
strong point of view and it was,
1132
00:31:04,580 --> 00:31:07,040
it took you back a little bit like oh wait,
1133
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:08,806
and then once you sat with it for a second you'
1134
00:31:08,806 --> 00:31:09,406
re like no that'
1135
00:31:09,406 --> 00:31:09,720
s right,
1136
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,400
um we loved it,
1137
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,440
yeah awesome.
1138
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:14,620
We'
1139
00:31:14,620 --> 00:31:16,460
ll link to as much of that as we can find too
1140
00:31:16,460 --> 00:31:17,780
so folks can see it,
1141
00:31:17,780 --> 00:31:18,950
no I' ll I'
1142
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:19,540
ll remember I'
1143
00:31:19,540 --> 00:31:20,646
ll remember something I'
1144
00:31:20,646 --> 00:31:22,380
m trying to like go back to can and think about
1145
00:31:22,380 --> 00:31:24,960
I mean there was stuff from Click Health that was
1146
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:25,520
really great,
1147
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,400
there members uh rethink always rethink did some
1148
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:36,220
stuff um yeah I mean not to not to like not to
1149
00:31:36,220 --> 00:31:38,620
promote the wares too much but yeah go look at
1150
00:31:38,620 --> 00:31:42,000
the Can coverage um we did because there' s really
1151
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,270
interesting stuff and you have an award that'
1152
00:31:44,270 --> 00:31:45,620
s about to come out do you want to talk about
1153
00:31:45,620 --> 00:31:47,326
that yeah yeah so Indy agency news Top 40,
1154
00:31:47,326 --> 00:31:49,002
Top 40 there.
1155
00:31:49,002 --> 00:31:49,080
So,
1156
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:49,680
no categories,
1157
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,240
just great indie work,
1158
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:56,980
and we uh have PJ Perera from Pro Dell is the
1159
00:31:56,980 --> 00:31:57,360
co-chair,
1160
00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,820
along with Leslie Sims from Impossible.
1161
00:32:01,100 --> 00:32:02,760
And we have a group about 20 judges,
1162
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,880
and it' ll be a 0 to 100 scale,
1163
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,640
and it' ll simply be ranked.
1164
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:08,420
The first 37,
1165
00:32:08,420 --> 00:32:10,540
is it 37?
1166
00:32:10,540 --> 00:32:11,200
38,
1167
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:12,080
yeah,
1168
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:12,460
37.
1169
00:32:12,460 --> 00:32:13,660
Good math,
1170
00:32:13,660 --> 00:32:13,960
Doug.
1171
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:14,460
Uh,
1172
00:32:14,460 --> 00:32:16,560
we will we' ll reveal online,
1173
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,500
so we' re bringing the show to everybody.
1174
00:32:18,500 --> 00:32:19,016
We'
1175
00:32:19,016 --> 00:32:21,040
ll do more stuff like that.
1176
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:21,328
We'
1177
00:32:21,328 --> 00:32:22,540
ll do more in-person things.
1178
00:32:22,540 --> 00:32:22,884
I think we'
1179
00:32:22,884 --> 00:32:23,370
re going to do a people'
1180
00:32:23,370 --> 00:32:24,460
s version of it too.
1181
00:32:24,460 --> 00:32:25,600
Um,
1182
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,340
but I' m excited about it because we try to make
1183
00:32:28,340 --> 00:32:30,160
this the easiest award in advertising.
1184
00:32:31,100 --> 00:32:31,300
Everybody'
1185
00:32:31,300 --> 00:32:33,320
s already done a lot of their hard work on this,
1186
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,260
so we just want you to copy- paste get your stuff
1187
00:32:36,260 --> 00:32:36,956
in.
1188
00:32:36,956 --> 00:32:37,840
Re: all professionals,
1189
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:39,300
we know what good work is,
1190
00:32:39,300 --> 00:32:41,316
so we' re not gonna we'
1191
00:32:41,316 --> 00:32:42,880
re not gonna categorize it; we'
1192
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:43,920
re just gonna make it be.
1193
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,340
I appreciate that,
1194
00:32:45,340 --> 00:32:46,700
all right,
1195
00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:47,040
my friend.
1196
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:50,000
I think we have time for one more; I'
1197
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,937
m gonna let you pick it.
1198
00:32:51,937 --> 00:32:52,772
Oh gosh,
1199
00:32:52,772 --> 00:32:53,190
alright!
1200
00:32:53,190 --> 00:32:53,608
Let'
1201
00:32:53,608 --> 00:32:53,780
s see,
1202
00:32:53,780 --> 00:32:56,780
let' s look at the team you guys have a favorite
1203
00:32:56,780 --> 00:32:56,960
one?
1204
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,660
You want to go to get the weirdest one?
1205
00:33:01,340 --> 00:33:01,806
What'
1206
00:33:01,806 --> 00:33:02,820
s the weirest one?
1207
00:33:02,820 --> 00:33:04,160
We want to go hey,
1208
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:04,680
all right!
1209
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:05,336
I don'
1210
00:33:05,336 --> 00:33:06,000
t know what it is,
1211
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,340
but we' re going to number five.
1212
00:33:07,340 --> 00:33:09,080
Okay,
1213
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:09,995
oh shit,
1214
00:33:09,995 --> 00:33:10,710
yeah!
1215
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:11,425
Alright!
1216
00:33:11,425 --> 00:33:15,580
Your biggest joy in life is recording voiceover so
1217
00:33:15,580 --> 00:33:18,340
drop some names of some projects you worked on and
1218
00:33:18,340 --> 00:33:18,484
we
1219
00:33:18,484 --> 00:33:20,540
re just super curious like what goes into the
1220
00:33:20,540 --> 00:33:23,620
perfect read like put us in the booth with you
1221
00:33:23,620 --> 00:33:23,936
what'
1222
00:33:23,936 --> 00:33:27,640
s it like i did a thing for heineken a couple
1223
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,500
years ago that was really fun you probably heard
1224
00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:35,640
it a lot on spotify um and it was actually
1225
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,120
written by a friend of mine who was my assistant
1226
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,020
when i was in radio as a creative director and um
1227
00:33:43,020 --> 00:33:45,880
now all these many years later he hires me as
1228
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:47,880
voice talent so there was some heineken stuff i
1229
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,200
did some nike work years ago um what i would say
1230
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,880
to people hiring talent and this goes back to what
1231
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,240
makes a great read it'
1232
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,640
s not so much well let me go back to the talent
1233
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,153
first so the talent is you'
1234
00:34:01,153 --> 00:34:01,308
ve got talent don'
1235
00:34:01,308 --> 00:34:03,680
t think of it as a gig because i look at it
1236
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:06,593
this way you'
1237
00:34:06,593 --> 00:34:08,300
ve chosen me to represent your brand,
1238
00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:10,460
I' ve chosen me to represent your company.
1239
00:34:11,219 --> 00:34:12,000
I take a,
1240
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:12,520
I take a,
1241
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,300
and maybe my point of view is a little bit
1242
00:34:14,300 --> 00:34:14,600
different.
1243
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:15,400
Um,
1244
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,020
I take that responsibility seriously,
1245
00:34:18,020 --> 00:34:20,500
and so when we did the Heineken work,
1246
00:34:20,500 --> 00:34:22,006
I would check in with the agency and be like, '
1247
00:34:22,006 --> 00:34:22,113
Hey,
1248
00:34:22,113 --> 00:34:23,500
I' m just curious: Is it working?
1249
00:34:23,500 --> 00:34:23,960
Yeah,
1250
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,460
sales are up; cool.' Um,
1251
00:34:26,460 --> 00:34:29,920
and so I was a little bit different in that,
1252
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,080
and maybe it' s because of my background,
1253
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:31,080
and I' m not sure,
1254
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:31,080
I' m not sure,
1255
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:31,080
I' m not sure,
1256
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:31,280
I' m not sure.
1257
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:31,604
Maybe it'
1258
00:34:31,604 --> 00:34:31,906
s just I'
1259
00:34:31,906 --> 00:34:33,380
m not purely you know,
1260
00:34:33,380 --> 00:34:34,060
purely voice,
1261
00:34:34,060 --> 00:34:36,699
but I think if you Re a voice talent,
1262
00:34:36,699 --> 00:34:38,800
make sure that you understand your responsibility to
1263
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,920
the not just to the client but to the brand and
1264
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,300
ask permission to make it better.
1265
00:34:45,300 --> 00:34:46,246
So when you'
1266
00:34:46,246 --> 00:34:47,780
re in a booth,
1267
00:34:47,780 --> 00:34:50,699
you know there are some times where talent I' ve
1268
00:34:50,699 --> 00:34:51,260
done this before,
1269
00:34:51,260 --> 00:34:51,580
I was like,
1270
00:34:51,580 --> 00:34:51,719
well,
1271
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:52,420
I' m gonna say this,
1272
00:34:52,420 --> 00:34:53,100
and then I realized,
1273
00:34:53,100 --> 00:34:53,719
oh actually,
1274
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:56,600
I know how hard it is to go from brief to
1275
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,880
strategy to script and then here I' m gonna come
1276
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,380
in and be the asshole that says you should change
1277
00:35:00,380 --> 00:35:00,817
it.'
1278
00:35:00,817 --> 00:35:01,035
It'
1279
00:35:01,035 --> 00:35:04,580
s like the first thing as voice talent is I'
1280
00:35:04,580 --> 00:35:05,800
m going to say this,
1281
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:06,540
you know.
1282
00:35:06,540 --> 00:35:09,030
This is what I would say to the client: '
1283
00:35:09,030 --> 00:35:10,440
Just to get this out of the way,
1284
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,200
copywriter,
1285
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:12,780
creative director,
1286
00:35:12,780 --> 00:35:14,120
I' ve done all this shit before.
1287
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:15,540
Um,
1288
00:35:15,540 --> 00:35:17,488
I' m happy to give you input if you'
1289
00:35:17,488 --> 00:35:17,760
d like,
1290
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,620
I don' t want to get in the way of this if you
1291
00:35:20,620 --> 00:35:21,680
want the input cool,
1292
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:22,540
if you don' t that'
1293
00:35:22,540 --> 00:35:23,460
s totally fine too.
1294
00:35:23,460 --> 00:35:25,060
I just want to make sure that you'
1295
00:35:25,060 --> 00:35:26,923
re getting the very best read that'
1296
00:35:26,923 --> 00:35:27,780
s representing what we'
1297
00:35:27,780 --> 00:35:31,020
re doing here and so once you do that you get
1298
00:35:31,020 --> 00:35:32,160
that layer out right,
1299
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:37,820
and I would say to people hiring talent um take,
1300
00:35:37,820 --> 00:35:40,520
take the time to listen to nuance because we' re
1301
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,832
all born with a range and we'
1302
00:35:44,832 --> 00:35:46,420
re tone and arrange,
1303
00:35:46,420 --> 00:35:47,068
that' s what we'
1304
00:35:47,068 --> 00:35:47,500
re born with,
1305
00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:47,900
right?
1306
00:35:47,900 --> 00:35:49,680
So my tone sounds like Stoner,
1307
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,200
my range is mid-range,
1308
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:52,920
mid-to- low range so it' Like,
1309
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,340
you know those are those are characteristics but
1310
00:35:55,340 --> 00:35:57,380
work within the nuances of that to try to get the
1311
00:35:57,380 --> 00:35:58,240
most out of your talent.
1312
00:35:58,420 --> 00:36:01,360
I would say trust your talent as as best you can,
1313
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:02,600
but you' re gonna have to eyeball that,
1314
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,060
listen to full demos,
1315
00:36:04,060 --> 00:36:05,440
don' t just go 10 seconds in.
1316
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,200
All of us know is voice talent,
1317
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:08,740
but you' re gonna listen to the first 10 seconds
1318
00:36:08,740 --> 00:36:09,110
and be like, '
1319
00:36:09,110 --> 00:36:09,200
No,
1320
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:10,190
it' s not gonna work.'
1321
00:36:10,190 --> 00:36:12,390
Take the time to go through the full minute.
1322
00:36:12,390 --> 00:36:16,160
Understand that the best work comes from nuance and
1323
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,410
this is where AI will never,
1324
00:36:18,410 --> 00:36:25,153
ever work - it' s making sure you'
1325
00:36:25,153 --> 00:36:26,120
re getting this on the downbeat,
1326
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:26,640
and doing this,
1327
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:27,680
and getting really,
1328
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:29,320
really weird and nerdy about it.
1329
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:29,880
So,
1330
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,300
if you' re new to it as a writer or a producer
1331
00:36:33,300 --> 00:36:34,320
or as a creative,
1332
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,580
get with some old heads that have done it before
1333
00:36:36,580 --> 00:36:39,040
and have to get coached on it and it' s not just
1334
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:39,680
about ads it'
1335
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,840
s about any sort of audio it absolutely is any
1336
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,020
sort of audio just just get churched up a little
1337
00:36:45,020 --> 00:36:50,720
bit on that man okay preach good advice all right
1338
00:36:50,720 --> 00:36:53,620
well as we wrap doug we do something kind of fun
1339
00:36:53,620 --> 00:36:54,172
we'
1340
00:36:54,172 --> 00:36:56,490
ll flip over to those questions it'
1341
00:36:56,490 --> 00:37:00,660
s totally rapid fire first one that you pick you
1342
00:37:00,660 --> 00:37:02,568
know whatever comes to mind first you don'
1343
00:37:02,568 --> 00:37:05,780
t need to think about it and this is our way to
1344
00:37:05,780 --> 00:37:08,700
get to know you a little bit more all right this
1345
00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:12,920
or that here we go pizza in new york or pasta in
1346
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:18,060
can pasta in can student or teacher agency side or
1347
00:37:18,060 --> 00:37:23,260
news side past news side all right all right all
1348
00:37:23,260 --> 00:37:25,660
right soccer or lacrosse soccer because i'
1349
00:37:25,660 --> 00:37:27,520
ve been playing it since I was five years old,
1350
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:28,400
show host or host of a show,
1351
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:28,400
host or host of a show,
1352
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:28,400
host or host of a show,
1353
00:37:28,420 --> 00:37:32,860
or guest host because I am so much more interested
1354
00:37:32,860 --> 00:37:34,320
other people have to say.
1355
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:35,220
Oh,
1356
00:37:35,220 --> 00:37:37,120
I think that' s a good theme for the day!
1357
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:37,540
Actually,
1358
00:37:37,540 --> 00:37:40,060
help others light them up.
1359
00:37:40,060 --> 00:37:40,840
I love that.
1360
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:41,020
Well,
1361
00:37:41,020 --> 00:37:43,188
thank you so much for joining us on ' Question
1362
00:37:43,188 --> 00:37:43,596
Everything.'
1363
00:37:43,596 --> 00:37:43,800
What'
1364
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,520
s the best way for listeners to reach out to you?
1365
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:47,380
Yeah,
1366
00:37:47,380 --> 00:37:48,360
IndieAgency .
1367
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,160
news is the platform for that,
1368
00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:54,980
but I' m always best found on LinkedIn and yeah,
1369
00:37:54,980 --> 00:37:57,480
Zanger is I.
1370
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:58,020
M,
1371
00:37:58,420 --> 00:38:00,700
for whatever reason I managed to grab all the
1372
00:38:00,700 --> 00:38:03,260
Zangers for some of the For social platforms
1373
00:38:03,260 --> 00:38:05,560
including uh including LinkedIn,
1374
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:06,300
so yeah,
1375
00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:07,720
it' s usually the best way to get a hold of me.
1376
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:08,885
I love that,
1377
00:38:08,885 --> 00:38:09,090
alright!
1378
00:38:09,090 --> 00:38:09,296
We'
1379
00:38:09,296 --> 00:38:12,100
ll put links uh in our show notes for you as
1380
00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:12,260
well.
1381
00:38:12,260 --> 00:38:13,840
Thanks for coming this was amazing,
1382
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,600
you have just such a fascinating life and career,
1383
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,860
you shared so much advice; we' re just so
1384
00:38:20,860 --> 00:38:23,420
appreciative of all you do for the agency world
1385
00:38:23,420 --> 00:38:25,645
but indies in particular uh it'
1386
00:38:25,645 --> 00:38:26,240
s very inspiring,
1387
00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:28,980
so thanks for giving us a platform too to share
1388
00:38:28,980 --> 00:38:30,740
our work and and thank you,
1389
00:38:30,740 --> 00:38:32,180
thank you for the support,
1390
00:38:32,180 --> 00:38:32,560
it' So,
1391
00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,340
you know people look at that as a membership fee.
1392
00:38:34,340 --> 00:38:36,980
I look at it as an investment in building
1393
00:38:36,980 --> 00:38:39,100
something that endures and is very special,
1394
00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:41,540
and that helps build this industry farther.
1395
00:38:41,540 --> 00:38:42,520
Yeah,
1396
00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:43,820
all right,
1397
00:38:43,820 --> 00:38:45,880
well we' ll talk soon.
1398
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:46,300
All right,
1399
00:38:46,300 --> 00:38:47,200
actually see ya.
1400
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:47,740
Thanks,
1401
00:38:47,740 --> 00:38:48,980
you see ya.