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Hello. How's it going?
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Welcome along to another episode of press
X to continue it.
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Is Stefan Powell here
holding the fort for you whilst I is away?
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Being a
a theater star, treading the boards
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all over the UK with his stage show.
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But look, fear not okay?
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We have got another special episode
with an extra
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special guest for you this week
to keep you busy and enlightened here
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on press X to continue and to sit down.
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Or if you're standing up,
you can sit down.
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Don't worry.
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Just just get yourself comfortable
in the brain.
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You know, when you mind, get comfy,
whatever you are,
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wrap your use around this conversation.
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We've had with one of the brightest minds
making games in the UK at the moment.
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It's a big sell, but frankly, it's true.
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Now, before I tell you more about
who it is, you already know who it is
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because it says it on the episode
description, isn't it? To be fair.
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So look, just a reminder, please.
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It makes such a big difference for us.
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And so many of you do it already,
which we love.
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But if you haven't subscribed,
make sure you subscribe to us.
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Comment
when you see our posts on social media,
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whether you agree or disagree or
or whatever with this stuff is on there.
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Like those posts as well,
telling me it's about us.
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Get involved in the discord channel.
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It makes a huge difference.
To us here on press X.
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So thank you very much
everybody that's doing that already.
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Keep up the good work and please join in
if you've got a chance to do it.
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Just yet.
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Now you might have played
one of these games like Thomas Was Alone,
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which won a BAFTA for the performance of
Danny Wallace, the comedian in that game.
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Maybe you played John Wilkes
X, seen it on the App Store.
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You've played that.
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How about Tron Identity or Tron Catalyst?
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Maybe you've tried Volume or Solitaire
Conspiracy.
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Maybe you haven't
heard any of them. Right.
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But these are some of the most,
significant independent
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games made from the UK
the last ten, 15 years.
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Right.
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Mike Bithell is the brains behind
all of them.
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And he's joined us on press X
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to talk about his journey
in making independent games.
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What worked,
what didn't everything in between.
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It's a it's a really cool chat.
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We've had quite a broad
ranging chat as well.
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But his journey
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to making games, some advice
for people who want to go and make games.
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And we also talk about podcasts
actually as well, because he's
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one of the team
that make a podcast called play Watch.
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What does he play watch, listen,
which is brilliant.
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And you should go and check it out.
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Actually,
after you've listened to this. Of course.
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So listen, stick with us
for a really fascinating chat with Mike.
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I'm definitely thinking
to get loads out of it.
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So yeah, welcome along
to this episode of press X to continue.
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And I a special episode
with one for only Mike Bithell.
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the obvious
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place to start is for some people
with some of a community or tuning on to
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this will will know the name might,
but might not necessarily be aware
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of all of your sort of the ins
and outs of your career
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and the stuff that you've made
and you've been,
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you've had such a varied career and sort
of the cool stuff that you've done
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which will come and touch upon.
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But how would you introduce yourself
at parties, Mike?
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When.
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Oh, hey, this is my mate Mike.
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The Bissell.
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Yeah, this is it.
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No. No, no. Do it.
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Yeah.
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Why not?
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Yeah.
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Did you always want to be a games maker?
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Then when did that sort of happen for you?
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Will you, was I wasn't very good
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child actor, which is why now I make video
hahahahahahahaha.
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What did you, Did
we win anything that we might have seen?
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Michael.
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Is it.
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good looking enough to play.
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And band, you know?
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So I, And so there you are. You.
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You're 15.
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You've been told you're not handsome
enough to be, Nicholas Cage.
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And and so you always
clearly wanted to do something creative.
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And Michael obviously.
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This is amazing.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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On the Dreamcast is a beautiful game.
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Yeah.
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Amazing.
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Wow. So that's a
Shen who's got a lot to answer for.
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Yeah. Mike.
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Yeah.
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And so you end up sort of starting
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to work in games development and
and creating games.
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Did you always want to sort of
have control
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over the titles you made,
or did you enjoy being part of a team,
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part of a greater haul in terms of that,
that experience, or did you always.
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No, no, no, no, I want to be number one.
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I want it to be my ideas and be in charge.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Wow. Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And that meeting then with your
with your boss when you're like. Oh.
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So this is, this is it was that.
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Were you excited. Were you scared.
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What was your sort of emotion
at that point.
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Yeah.
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I mean.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It's amazing.
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Yeah.
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And in a, in an industry
that has been so up and down and chopped
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and changed and,
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and, and everybody sort of in the middle
of one of those periods at the moment to,
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to, to have been doing it for so long is,
is is a heck of an achievement, isn't it?
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So, some of the
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I suppose you didn't imagine
at the time that you, when you, when you
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release that game in your spare time
that it would lead to this.
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Right.
That was never the grand plan. I suppose.
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Oh, yeah.
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Jazzy.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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five years I
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Yeah.
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The long way round.
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Yeah yeah yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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To being realistic is very,
quite a British thing, isn't it?
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I suppose.
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Yeah.
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So, like you were saying,
you've gone on then to develop
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with your company lots of,
of different things in different genres,
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like you say on your website,
you tend to focus on sci fi,
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sort of settings and things.
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So I have to ask, what is your
what's your favorite sci fi setting?
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What inspired you
to want to be to be a sci fi
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dude?
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Oh, is it?
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Yeah.
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So you were in the in the 90s.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And to.
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Yeah.
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And has it did it to teach you stuff,
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or did you learn things by your fandom
that you've then applied in your,
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in your day job.
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Yeah.
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Was very
diverse, very inclusive wasn't it.
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Yeah.
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Yeah yeah you can.
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But it's like it's actually,
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you know, being the cleverest person
in the room, which I am never.
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But you know, it's
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I don't know, it's
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not speaking from experience,
but I can imagine being the cleverest
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puts the room sometimes, you know, and not
and not coming across like a,
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like a book
is actually quite hard, isn't it?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So I wonder actually,
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because obviously
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we we've got this feature on the podcast
where we talk about people's unsung
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hero games, which is a game that maybe
doesn't get the plaudits it deserves.
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It doesn't get the recognition.
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Well, I was wondering,
I imagine that you might have
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a Star Trek game
that there could be your unsung hero game
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because you can't
you can't see one of your own games.
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Mike is the unsung hero game because
we going to talk plenty about your games.
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Yeah.
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That's it. Yeah.
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That's it.
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Yeah.
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That's they, they've got
he's got one of his games, got a BAFTA.
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So come on Danny what is Danny.
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What is what a BAFTA feels right.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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it holds up and
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Ha ha
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ha ha ha.
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Yeah.
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So talking obviously,
you know, a lot of people listening to
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this will will come because, either
they know your work and really enjoy it
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or they listen to us,
or they want to be game
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designers, developers,
and they look at you
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as a successful person
in the British games industry
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who's made it work for 15 years.
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It's been your you've,
you know, career being able to make games.
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What would you what advice
would you give people now because that
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like you've already touched upon,
the landscape is very different today
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as it was
when you started all those years ago.
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Yeah.
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That's great advice because we've had
the similar question people have.
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But this podcast, because we obviously
doing our independent podcast that is done
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for the love of it by by a crew of people
that that get a kick out of it.
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On whether or not we become
the most watched or listen to podcasts in
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the world is unlikely,
but we are having fun making it.
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We get to chat, interesting people argue,
and then you get a
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you get a kick out of it
regardless. Then it's hard.
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Then when when you do something
because you're thinking about the pounds
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in the pen sometimes, or the career
progression and all that sort of stuff,
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because that that's when it starts to get
a bit muddled and muddied, isn't it?
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We both do.
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It's fine.
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It's right.
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Yeah.
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And because it is, it's difficult
sometimes for people not to get
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swept up in, especially if you go
and work for it for a company or whatever,
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and you and that are making
because it definitely feels like to me.
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I wonder if you agree or disagree.
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As someone who makes what we would call
classes independent games, right?
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Indie games, there seems to be like
a two tranches of an industry
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that we live in at the moment,
and the stuff that we, we consume.
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There's the big Triple-A,
if you will, titles
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that are chasing the same sort
of financial monetization schemes.
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So are off to them, free to play games
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that will get you to pay monthly,
or they'll cost a massive amount of
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money upfront.
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And they're so massive and big in scope,
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you could even conceive
of putting that together on your own.
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And then you've got smaller companies
that are able to do
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be nimble and do more different things.
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But obviously the scale is smaller.
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And I suppose often sometimes people think
that they have to do the thing
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at the top, right. But I suppose you don't
you don't have to.
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You don't have to. That's not
that's not what a game necessarily is.
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Yeah. SIM.
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Well of course, of course.
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No no no.
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Yet that's that's a, that's
a, that's a advice.
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That is.
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Yeah.
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Yeah I know
and of course it keeps slipping.
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Everybody's. It keeps it.
Okay. We'll put it out this time. We.
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Oh no wait. No we can't do that.
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Let's pull it forward
or let's push it back.
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Let's, let's whatever.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
255
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,280
You know that decision
we made a couple of months?
256
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,040
I said, can we change it? Yeah,
absolutely.
257
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:35,960
You also have made games
that are played a lot on mobile devices.
258
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,280
And, I mean, just because we don't,
I don't
259
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,800
we talk about mobile games here
and, you know, sometimes, again,
260
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,560
thought of as another thing
when it's just as it's
261
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,400
just as much a part of the games
industry is playing a game with a console,
262
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,280
PC or whatever.
263
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:50,800
Well, financially.
264
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:51,400
Absolutely.
265
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,160
And also you've got a wider
266
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,000
audience base in terms of,
you know, demographic, right?
267
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,640
The people who can play courses
on the app stores or whatever,
268
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,960
how tricky is it to navigate that space?
269
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,040
Because it's interesting.
270
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:02,720
Like if you're like,
271
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,120
if you just go on your store
and you want to just get a game to play
272
00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:08,360
while you're on a table on the train
or whatever,
273
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,360
or you're just, you know, busy, it is.
274
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,800
You are bombarded with up with options.
275
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:19,040
And as someone who has sometimes choice
anxiety, it's like, well, where to start?
276
00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:22,120
So how would you navigate that
as a creator trying to,
277
00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:25,120
you know, to get some space in there?
278
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,440
Yeah.
279
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:53,760
Wow. Yeah.
280
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,280
Wow. That.
281
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:24,840
Yeah.
282
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,440
That came
that, It's so it's so good, isn't it?
283
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,160
Schizo addictive.
284
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,520
Just just dropped by.
285
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,560
I mean, I was playing a lawnmower
sim at one point, which I was.
286
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,200
I was advocating for people. So,
you know, this stuff you get.
287
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,080
But it is because it is like
it is such a big part of the game space,
288
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,320
though, and games and creators
and people who want to get into
289
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,040
I think, oh, well,
maybe we can try to do that.
290
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:47,960
But it is like you
291
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,840
say, it's hard to it's hard
to try and break into there and therefore,
292
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:53,960
no, I'm just gonna say,
293
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,280
therefore you feel confident that,
that there's enough people
294
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,840
wanting to spend money to pay you
for games, that you've not pivoted
295
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,680
to, those sort of free to play type
experiences.
296
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,480
Yeah.
297
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,880
Yeah.
298
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,200
Yeah.
299
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:42,800
Yeah.
300
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,800
Now I really wanted to talk to you
because I knew obviously
301
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,400
you were coming on to on today
about this thing that we've touched upon
302
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,360
a couple of times and on the podcast,
but not in sort of any, any depth.
303
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,640
And we,
we spoke about a couple of weeks ago,
304
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,080
we had Che Thompson on, we were talking
about what we're excited for for 2026,
305
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,240
and I was talking about fable
because I remember the fable games,
306
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,480
because of their, their Britishness,
if you will.
307
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,640
You know, we we Stephen Fry
was in a fable game, you know what I mean?
308
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,240
There was there was,
there were British gags and,
309
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,320
and I suppose that was an, an era
where Britain
310
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,760
really punched above its weight
and still does in the indie game space.
311
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,120
But in terms of not just in terms
of the creative vision behind the game
312
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,040
and those who create created it,
but also what you saw on screen.
313
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,880
But I wonder if we're not actually
culturally British, and
314
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,240
I wonder if we haven't
been seeing as much of that recently
315
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,640
and in fact, the game that sort of,
you know, thank goodness you're here.
316
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,160
Did you play? I don't know if you had a chance to play. Thank goodness you're here.
317
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,280
I mean,
318
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,040
yeah, only works in Britain, right?
319
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,040
Because of it's
set in a very particular part of the UK.
320
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,040
But you've had, you know,
we talked with Danny Wallace earlier.
321
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,640
I think Sue Perkins, you've worked
with the in the past.
322
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:55,040
Right.
323
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,280
So you've had sort of British elements
in, in some of your titles in the past.
324
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,640
Do you think we will ever see
some of that sort of come,
325
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,360
come around again or we are living in
sort of an amalgam of culture now where
326
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:12,200
when it comes to movies and television
and games, it's all sort of Hollywood
327
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,760
or actually increasingly South
Korean influence or whatever.
328
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,840
I just interesting to see if,
if you think that there's still space for
329
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,080
Britishness,
quote unquote, in, in games of the future.
330
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,640
Yeah.
331
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,200
Yeah.
332
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,280
Oh, wow.
333
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:11,080
Yeah.
334
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:15,080
Also, just,
certainly having a compete for more Welsh,
335
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,360
accents in video games
because they're not that many.
336
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:19,640
Mike.
337
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,640
So just saying.
338
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,120
I mean, we could.
339
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,200
Well, you know, I'm happy to,
340
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,400
your best half will want to have,
you know, a Welsh voice in your next game.
341
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,360
Just saying.
You know, if you happen to know.
342
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,440
Anyway, as broadcasters
with the relatively thick accent.
343
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,000
Well.
344
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,200
Well, It's just a lack of Hey,
345
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,160
I thought you were a starter.
346
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,840
I thought you were a, you know, come on,
347
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,240
come on.
348
00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:58,600
It's, We're talking about this.
349
00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:59,920
I'm British in games and. Interesting.
350
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:02,440
You touched upon it, earlier
with your sort of discovery of
351
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,720
of Doctor Who later on in,
in sort of your, your sci fi journey,
352
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,520
this sort of lack of
and I've had this conversation
353
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,440
with, with Russell T Davies,
lots of people who are sort of across,
354
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,160
Doctor Russell T Davies is the show.
355
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,960
He's the is the showrunner of Doctor
Who, so he's sort of in charge.
356
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,000
And, I make a TV show
about how they make the TV show,
357
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,760
and I've asked him a few times,
like Doctor Who in games.
358
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,720
Isn't that a thing there?
359
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:29,160
And it's never quite.
It's never quite happened.
360
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:29,920
If there's never been, like,
361
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,040
a Doctor Who game and I wonder,
you know, you're you're upset if I gave.
362
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:34,640
You've talked about it.
363
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,880
I wonder if you ever thought
about trying to to to bridge that gap.
364
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,880
I wonder why it hasn't happened.
365
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,920
Yeah.
366
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:41,840
I think that I'd expect.
367
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,720
Yeah,
there are experiences out there, but.
368
00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:45,520
And I've often wondered,
I think, you know,
369
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:46,880
it's definitely got the fan base for it.
370
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,920
I think also a challenge is,
is that the doctor doesn't shoot anyone,
371
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,000
you know, and often the mechanic in the,
you know, in a game,
372
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,800
an action game where you're playing a sci
fi hero, what do you shoot?
373
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,480
You know, like a,
you know, Star Wars games.
374
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:03,880
Yeah. Shoot someone.
375
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,480
The Star Trek game you referenced earlier
as a first person shooter, you know?
376
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:07,440
So, yeah.
377
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,960
So it's it is an interesting challenge,
isn't it, for someone.
378
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,480
Someone someone is going to crack it,
surely. Because I think they'd be.
379
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,080
I mean, no doubt
they'd be open, to a conversation.
380
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,720
But if it was the right,
if it was the right idea.
381
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:19,800
But, so if it's not you.
382
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,520
Well, it should be like someone will
someone will come up with the idea,
383
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,360
no doubt.
384
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,840
So what do you play talking about your
your sort of love of games?
385
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:33,440
Mike, is the games that you play,
what are those?
386
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,240
What do you unwind with?
387
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:44,120
It's a good show.
388
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,400
So it's it's it's so fluid
and the gameplay
389
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,640
is so brilliant.
390
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,800
Yeah.
391
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:14,800
The peak peaks.
392
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,800
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
393
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,000
Yeah, yeah.
394
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,080
What's wrong with this?
395
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,080
Yeah.
396
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,240
I haven't played the drifter.
397
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:40,240
that was great.
398
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:03,240
Okay.
399
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,000
Sounds amazing.
400
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,960
I'm going to stick that on the list.
401
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,960
Yeah.
402
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,080
Yeah.
403
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:35,640
Oh, brilliant.
404
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,320
So it's it's it's
I mean, you're quite like you're feeling
405
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,400
quite positive about the,
the sort of future
406
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,200
because think you've
you've already touched upon it.
407
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,760
It was tough 2025 for you
having to make some layoffs to the company
408
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,600
and things not quite go into plan.
409
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,680
How do you feel you know about this year
and the years
410
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,680
ahead?
411
00:41:46,080 --> 00:42:16,040
But, Yeah,
412
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,480
but and does that because.
413
00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:22,720
Yeah.
414
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:29,920
And is that
415
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:34,080
because, it draws like a big
I guess it will pull new players in.
416
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,040
Right. And then. No. Said
no. I enjoy playing that.
417
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,080
I want to try something else.
418
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,800
But I do want to spend another $100 on
a game or whatever that's going to cost.
419
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,080
And so I might spend ten on this, split
the type over here.
420
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:43,360
And that's really
fun. I'll try another one.
421
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,680
Yeah.
422
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,120
Yeah.
423
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,720
Yeah, I think I think it's
because maybe I know
424
00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:05,760
there was a new Mario Kart with it,
but that was it, isn't it?
425
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,040
I think software ultimately sells.
426
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:09,600
It gets more attention.
427
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,120
Right than than hardware does.
And that's why I was a big fan.
428
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,120
I thought E3 was an important event
that we used to have every year that LA
429
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:16,880
is a big gaming show because it got
430
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,320
I used to be center for the BBC,
for example, you know, and that's that.
431
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,480
And you, you'd see gaming in places
you don't normally normally see it.
432
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,720
Because I still think do you,
do you ever get frustrated
433
00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:29,840
the fact that game is a scene
434
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,480
because I know you're on your podcast,
obviously about television and film
435
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,600
and other parts of culture
that we're still I, I'm asking people this
436
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,400
a lot
and people move on to the conversation,
437
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,800
but I'm just fascinated by this idea
of why games still isn't
438
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,560
thought of necessarily
in the same way by the gent, by the man
439
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,040
on the Clapham omnibus, or whatever
440
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,400
the saying is for the
that you median person in the UK.
441
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,000
I do find it fascinating that it hasn't
442
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,000
cut through in that sense,
so I thought it would have done by now.
443
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,360
Did it?
444
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,360
Yeah.
445
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,920
And Star Trek taught you all of this?
446
00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:34,640
Okay.
447
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:34,920
Thanks.
448
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,920
I if I.
449
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,760
Yeah.
450
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,320
Yeah.
451
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,160
Yeah.
452
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,960
games
453
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,960
Yeah.
454
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:40,240
Yeah.
455
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,160
Yeah.
456
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,360
Yeah.
457
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:48,880
Yeah.
458
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,600
Yeah.
459
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,160
Well, Mike,
listen, it's been a joy talking to you.
460
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,440
Thank you so much for your time. So,
461
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,960
well, I go to cut,
I let's let's turn into a positive.
462
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,080
Just to finish off,
I suppose when you look back at your
463
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,320
your 15 years and all the different stuff
you've been able to achieve with your,
464
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,560
with your company
in the games that you've made and things.
465
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:07,080
What's that?
466
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,200
What what makes you proudest
and what makes you smile the most?
467
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,640
And what should people get excited
about that you're working on?
468
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,640
Oh, you're the guy available
soon or now or.
469
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,920
Yeah.
470
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:43,800
Oh, exciting.
471
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,120
Well,
we're looking forward to that. And. Yeah.
472
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:45,600
Play watch.
473
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,760
Listen, we've had Austin on.
474
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,000
We've had, you know, on Mike.
475
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,920
Now we've got to get a liner again
and then we can get all
476
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,520
we said we will have done.
We've done play. We've done watch.
477
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:56,040
Now we need to do listen.
478
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,960
So we've done
all three of the of the elements.
479
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:00,600
Mike it's been it's
been a joy chatting with you.
480
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,640
Thank you so much for giving us
your time has been really fascinating.
481
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,440
And getting your take on how you've got to
where you are
482
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,360
and your take on the current situation
of stuff.
483
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:12,680
And, and maybe the germ of an idea
for the first big Doctor
484
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:13,800
Who game we've had in ages.
485
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,240
Maybe it's
maybe that maybe that happened today.
486
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:18,920
Yeah, yeah.
487
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:20,040
Mike. Cheers, mate.
488
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,760
All the best.
489
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:23,000
Right.
490
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,800
Congratulations for being with us till
the very end for beating the end, boss.
491
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:28,440
You x beasts.
492
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,320
We can be back in your feeds once again
next Tuesday.
493
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,440
Until then, look after yourselves
and keep busy on the discord.
494
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:34,920
See you soon.
00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:03,320
Hello. How's it going?
2
00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:07,000
Welcome along to another episode of press
X to continue it.
3
00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:11,040
Is Stefan Powell here
holding the fort for you whilst I is away?
4
00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:14,240
Being a
a theater star, treading the boards
5
00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,200
all over the UK with his stage show.
6
00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,320
But look, fear not okay?
7
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,800
We have got another special episode
with an extra
8
00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,920
special guest for you this week
to keep you busy and enlightened here
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on press X to continue and to sit down.
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Or if you're standing up,
you can sit down.
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Don't worry.
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Just just get yourself comfortable
in the brain.
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You know, when you mind, get comfy,
whatever you are,
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wrap your use around this conversation.
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We've had with one of the brightest minds
making games in the UK at the moment.
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It's a big sell, but frankly, it's true.
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Now, before I tell you more about
who it is, you already know who it is
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because it says it on the episode
description, isn't it? To be fair.
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So look, just a reminder, please.
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It makes such a big difference for us.
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And so many of you do it already,
which we love.
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But if you haven't subscribed,
make sure you subscribe to us.
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Comment
when you see our posts on social media,
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whether you agree or disagree or
or whatever with this stuff is on there.
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Like those posts as well,
telling me it's about us.
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Get involved in the discord channel.
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It makes a huge difference.
To us here on press X.
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So thank you very much
everybody that's doing that already.
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Keep up the good work and please join in
if you've got a chance to do it.
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Just yet.
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Now you might have played
one of these games like Thomas Was Alone,
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which won a BAFTA for the performance of
Danny Wallace, the comedian in that game.
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Maybe you played John Wilkes
X, seen it on the App Store.
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You've played that.
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How about Tron Identity or Tron Catalyst?
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Maybe you've tried Volume or Solitaire
Conspiracy.
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Maybe you haven't
heard any of them. Right.
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But these are some of the most,
significant independent
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games made from the UK
the last ten, 15 years.
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Right.
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Mike Bithell is the brains behind
all of them.
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And he's joined us on press X
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to talk about his journey
in making independent games.
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What worked,
what didn't everything in between.
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It's a it's a really cool chat.
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We've had quite a broad
ranging chat as well.
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But his journey
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to making games, some advice
for people who want to go and make games.
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And we also talk about podcasts
actually as well, because he's
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one of the team
that make a podcast called play Watch.
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What does he play watch, listen,
which is brilliant.
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And you should go and check it out.
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Actually,
after you've listened to this. Of course.
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So listen, stick with us
for a really fascinating chat with Mike.
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I'm definitely thinking
to get loads out of it.
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So yeah, welcome along
to this episode of press X to continue.
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And I a special episode
with one for only Mike Bithell.
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the obvious
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place to start is for some people
with some of a community or tuning on to
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this will will know the name might,
but might not necessarily be aware
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of all of your sort of the ins
and outs of your career
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and the stuff that you've made
and you've been,
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you've had such a varied career and sort
of the cool stuff that you've done
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which will come and touch upon.
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But how would you introduce yourself
at parties, Mike?
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When.
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Oh, hey, this is my mate Mike.
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The Bissell.
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Yeah, this is it.
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No. No, no. Do it.
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Yeah.
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Why not?
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Yeah.
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Did you always want to be a games maker?
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Then when did that sort of happen for you?
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Will you, was I wasn't very good
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child actor, which is why now I make video
hahahahahahahaha.
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What did you, Did
we win anything that we might have seen?
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Michael.
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Is it.
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good looking enough to play.
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And band, you know?
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So I, And so there you are. You.
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You're 15.
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You've been told you're not handsome
enough to be, Nicholas Cage.
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And and so you always
clearly wanted to do something creative.
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And Michael obviously.
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This is amazing.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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On the Dreamcast is a beautiful game.
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Yeah.
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Amazing.
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Wow. So that's a
Shen who's got a lot to answer for.
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Yeah. Mike.
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Yeah.
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And so you end up sort of starting
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to work in games development and
and creating games.
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Did you always want to sort of
have control
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over the titles you made,
or did you enjoy being part of a team,
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part of a greater haul in terms of that,
that experience, or did you always.
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No, no, no, no, I want to be number one.
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I want it to be my ideas and be in charge.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Wow. Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And that meeting then with your
with your boss when you're like. Oh.
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So this is, this is it was that.
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Were you excited. Were you scared.
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What was your sort of emotion
at that point.
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Yeah.
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I mean.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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It's amazing.
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Yeah.
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And in a, in an industry
that has been so up and down and chopped
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and changed and,
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and, and everybody sort of in the middle
of one of those periods at the moment to,
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to, to have been doing it for so long is,
is is a heck of an achievement, isn't it?
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So, some of the
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I suppose you didn't imagine
at the time that you, when you, when you
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release that game in your spare time
that it would lead to this.
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Right.
That was never the grand plan. I suppose.
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Oh, yeah.
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Jazzy.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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five years I
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Yeah.
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The long way round.
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Yeah yeah yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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To being realistic is very,
quite a British thing, isn't it?
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I suppose.
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Yeah.
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So, like you were saying,
you've gone on then to develop
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with your company lots of,
of different things in different genres,
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like you say on your website,
you tend to focus on sci fi,
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sort of settings and things.
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So I have to ask, what is your
what's your favorite sci fi setting?
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What inspired you
to want to be to be a sci fi
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dude?
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Oh, is it?
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Yeah.
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So you were in the in the 90s.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And to.
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Yeah.
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And has it did it to teach you stuff,
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or did you learn things by your fandom
that you've then applied in your,
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in your day job.
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Yeah.
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Was very
diverse, very inclusive wasn't it.
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Yeah.
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Yeah yeah you can.
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But it's like it's actually,
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you know, being the cleverest person
in the room, which I am never.
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But you know, it's
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I don't know, it's
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not speaking from experience,
but I can imagine being the cleverest
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puts the room sometimes, you know, and not
and not coming across like a,
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like a book
is actually quite hard, isn't it?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So I wonder actually,
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because obviously
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we we've got this feature on the podcast
where we talk about people's unsung
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hero games, which is a game that maybe
doesn't get the plaudits it deserves.
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It doesn't get the recognition.
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Well, I was wondering,
I imagine that you might have
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a Star Trek game
that there could be your unsung hero game
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because you can't
you can't see one of your own games.
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Mike is the unsung hero game because
we going to talk plenty about your games.
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Yeah.
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That's it. Yeah.
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That's it.
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Yeah.
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That's they, they've got
he's got one of his games, got a BAFTA.
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So come on Danny what is Danny.
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What is what a BAFTA feels right.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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it holds up and
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Ha ha
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ha ha ha.
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Yeah.
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So talking obviously,
you know, a lot of people listening to
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this will will come because, either
they know your work and really enjoy it
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or they listen to us,
or they want to be game
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designers, developers,
and they look at you
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as a successful person
in the British games industry
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who's made it work for 15 years.
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It's been your you've,
you know, career being able to make games.
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What would you what advice
would you give people now because that
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like you've already touched upon,
the landscape is very different today
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as it was
when you started all those years ago.
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Yeah.
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That's great advice because we've had
the similar question people have.
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But this podcast, because we obviously
doing our independent podcast that is done
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for the love of it by by a crew of people
that that get a kick out of it.
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On whether or not we become
the most watched or listen to podcasts in
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the world is unlikely,
but we are having fun making it.
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We get to chat, interesting people argue,
and then you get a
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you get a kick out of it
regardless. Then it's hard.
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Then when when you do something
because you're thinking about the pounds
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in the pen sometimes, or the career
progression and all that sort of stuff,
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because that that's when it starts to get
a bit muddled and muddied, isn't it?
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We both do.
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It's fine.
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It's right.
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Yeah.
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And because it is, it's difficult
sometimes for people not to get
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swept up in, especially if you go
and work for it for a company or whatever,
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and you and that are making
because it definitely feels like to me.
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I wonder if you agree or disagree.
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As someone who makes what we would call
classes independent games, right?
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Indie games, there seems to be like
a two tranches of an industry
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that we live in at the moment,
and the stuff that we, we consume.
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There's the big Triple-A,
if you will, titles
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that are chasing the same sort
of financial monetization schemes.
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So are off to them, free to play games
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that will get you to pay monthly,
or they'll cost a massive amount of
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money upfront.
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And they're so massive and big in scope,
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you could even conceive
of putting that together on your own.
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And then you've got smaller companies
that are able to do
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be nimble and do more different things.
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But obviously the scale is smaller.
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And I suppose often sometimes people think
that they have to do the thing
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at the top, right. But I suppose you don't
you don't have to.
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You don't have to. That's not
that's not what a game necessarily is.
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Yeah. SIM.
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Well of course, of course.
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No no no.
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Yet that's that's a, that's
a, that's a advice.
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That is.
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Yeah.
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Yeah I know
and of course it keeps slipping.
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Everybody's. It keeps it.
Okay. We'll put it out this time. We.
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Oh no wait. No we can't do that.
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Let's pull it forward
or let's push it back.
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Let's, let's whatever.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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You know that decision
we made a couple of months?
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I said, can we change it? Yeah,
absolutely.
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You also have made games
that are played a lot on mobile devices.
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And, I mean, just because we don't,
I don't
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we talk about mobile games here
and, you know, sometimes, again,
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thought of as another thing
when it's just as it's
261
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,400
just as much a part of the games
industry is playing a game with a console,
262
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,280
PC or whatever.
263
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:50,800
Well, financially.
264
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:51,400
Absolutely.
265
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,160
And also you've got a wider
266
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,000
audience base in terms of,
you know, demographic, right?
267
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,640
The people who can play courses
on the app stores or whatever,
268
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,960
how tricky is it to navigate that space?
269
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:02,040
Because it's interesting.
270
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:02,720
Like if you're like,
271
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,120
if you just go on your store
and you want to just get a game to play
272
00:28:06,120 --> 00:28:08,360
while you're on a table on the train
or whatever,
273
00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,360
or you're just, you know, busy, it is.
274
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,800
You are bombarded with up with options.
275
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:19,040
And as someone who has sometimes choice
anxiety, it's like, well, where to start?
276
00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:22,120
So how would you navigate that
as a creator trying to,
277
00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:25,120
you know, to get some space in there?
278
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,440
Yeah.
279
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:53,760
Wow. Yeah.
280
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,280
Wow. That.
281
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:24,840
Yeah.
282
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,440
That came
that, It's so it's so good, isn't it?
283
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,160
Schizo addictive.
284
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,520
Just just dropped by.
285
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,560
I mean, I was playing a lawnmower
sim at one point, which I was.
286
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,200
I was advocating for people. So,
you know, this stuff you get.
287
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,080
But it is because it is like
it is such a big part of the game space,
288
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,320
though, and games and creators
and people who want to get into
289
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,040
I think, oh, well,
maybe we can try to do that.
290
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:47,960
But it is like you
291
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,840
say, it's hard to it's hard
to try and break into there and therefore,
292
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:53,960
no, I'm just gonna say,
293
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,280
therefore you feel confident that,
that there's enough people
294
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,840
wanting to spend money to pay you
for games, that you've not pivoted
295
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,680
to, those sort of free to play type
experiences.
296
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,480
Yeah.
297
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:50,880
Yeah.
298
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,200
Yeah.
299
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:42,800
Yeah.
300
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:45,800
Now I really wanted to talk to you
because I knew obviously
301
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,400
you were coming on to on today
about this thing that we've touched upon
302
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,360
a couple of times and on the podcast,
but not in sort of any, any depth.
303
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:55,640
And we,
we spoke about a couple of weeks ago,
304
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,080
we had Che Thompson on, we were talking
about what we're excited for for 2026,
305
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,240
and I was talking about fable
because I remember the fable games,
306
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,480
because of their, their Britishness,
if you will.
307
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,640
You know, we we Stephen Fry
was in a fable game, you know what I mean?
308
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,240
There was there was,
there were British gags and,
309
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,320
and I suppose that was an, an era
where Britain
310
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,760
really punched above its weight
and still does in the indie game space.
311
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,120
But in terms of not just in terms
of the creative vision behind the game
312
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,040
and those who create created it,
but also what you saw on screen.
313
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:29,880
But I wonder if we're not actually
culturally British, and
314
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,240
I wonder if we haven't
been seeing as much of that recently
315
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:36,640
and in fact, the game that sort of,
you know, thank goodness you're here.
316
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,160
Did you play? I don't know if you had a chance to play. Thank goodness you're here.
317
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,280
I mean,
318
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,040
yeah, only works in Britain, right?
319
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,040
Because of it's
set in a very particular part of the UK.
320
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,040
But you've had, you know,
we talked with Danny Wallace earlier.
321
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:54,640
I think Sue Perkins, you've worked
with the in the past.
322
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:55,040
Right.
323
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,280
So you've had sort of British elements
in, in some of your titles in the past.
324
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,640
Do you think we will ever see
some of that sort of come,
325
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:07,360
come around again or we are living in
sort of an amalgam of culture now where
326
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:12,200
when it comes to movies and television
and games, it's all sort of Hollywood
327
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,760
or actually increasingly South
Korean influence or whatever.
328
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,840
I just interesting to see if,
if you think that there's still space for
329
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,080
Britishness,
quote unquote, in, in games of the future.
330
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:32,640
Yeah.
331
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:38,200
Yeah.
332
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,280
Oh, wow.
333
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:11,080
Yeah.
334
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:15,080
Also, just,
certainly having a compete for more Welsh,
335
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,360
accents in video games
because they're not that many.
336
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:19,640
Mike.
337
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,640
So just saying.
338
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,120
I mean, we could.
339
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,200
Well, you know, I'm happy to,
340
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,400
your best half will want to have,
you know, a Welsh voice in your next game.
341
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,360
Just saying.
You know, if you happen to know.
342
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,440
Anyway, as broadcasters
with the relatively thick accent.
343
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,000
Well.
344
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,200
Well, It's just a lack of Hey,
345
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,160
I thought you were a starter.
346
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,840
I thought you were a, you know, come on,
347
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,240
come on.
348
00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:58,600
It's, We're talking about this.
349
00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:59,920
I'm British in games and. Interesting.
350
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:02,440
You touched upon it, earlier
with your sort of discovery of
351
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,720
of Doctor Who later on in,
in sort of your, your sci fi journey,
352
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,520
this sort of lack of
and I've had this conversation
353
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,440
with, with Russell T Davies,
lots of people who are sort of across,
354
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:15,160
Doctor Russell T Davies is the show.
355
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,960
He's the is the showrunner of Doctor
Who, so he's sort of in charge.
356
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:22,000
And, I make a TV show
about how they make the TV show,
357
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,760
and I've asked him a few times,
like Doctor Who in games.
358
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,720
Isn't that a thing there?
359
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:29,160
And it's never quite.
It's never quite happened.
360
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:29,920
If there's never been, like,
361
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,040
a Doctor Who game and I wonder,
you know, you're you're upset if I gave.
362
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:34,640
You've talked about it.
363
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,880
I wonder if you ever thought
about trying to to to bridge that gap.
364
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,880
I wonder why it hasn't happened.
365
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,920
Yeah.
366
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:41,840
I think that I'd expect.
367
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:43,720
Yeah,
there are experiences out there, but.
368
00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:45,520
And I've often wondered,
I think, you know,
369
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:46,880
it's definitely got the fan base for it.
370
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,920
I think also a challenge is,
is that the doctor doesn't shoot anyone,
371
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,000
you know, and often the mechanic in the,
you know, in a game,
372
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,800
an action game where you're playing a sci
fi hero, what do you shoot?
373
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,480
You know, like a,
you know, Star Wars games.
374
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:03,880
Yeah. Shoot someone.
375
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,480
The Star Trek game you referenced earlier
as a first person shooter, you know?
376
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:07,440
So, yeah.
377
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,960
So it's it is an interesting challenge,
isn't it, for someone.
378
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,480
Someone someone is going to crack it,
surely. Because I think they'd be.
379
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,080
I mean, no doubt
they'd be open, to a conversation.
380
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:17,720
But if it was the right,
if it was the right idea.
381
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:19,800
But, so if it's not you.
382
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,520
Well, it should be like someone will
someone will come up with the idea,
383
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,360
no doubt.
384
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,840
So what do you play talking about your
your sort of love of games?
385
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:33,440
Mike, is the games that you play,
what are those?
386
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,240
What do you unwind with?
387
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:44,120
It's a good show.
388
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:47,400
So it's it's it's so fluid
and the gameplay
389
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,640
is so brilliant.
390
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,800
Yeah.
391
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:14,800
The peak peaks.
392
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,800
Yeah, yeah yeah yeah.
393
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:20,000
Yeah, yeah.
394
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:21,080
What's wrong with this?
395
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,080
Yeah.
396
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:37,240
I haven't played the drifter.
397
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:40,240
that was great.
398
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:03,240
Okay.
399
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:23,000
Sounds amazing.
400
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:24,960
I'm going to stick that on the list.
401
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,960
Yeah.
402
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:35,080
Yeah.
403
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:35,640
Oh, brilliant.
404
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,320
So it's it's it's
I mean, you're quite like you're feeling
405
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,400
quite positive about the,
the sort of future
406
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,200
because think you've
you've already touched upon it.
407
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,760
It was tough 2025 for you
having to make some layoffs to the company
408
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,600
and things not quite go into plan.
409
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,680
How do you feel you know about this year
and the years
410
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,680
ahead?
411
00:41:46,080 --> 00:42:16,040
But, Yeah,
412
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,480
but and does that because.
413
00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:22,720
Yeah.
414
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:29,920
And is that
415
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:34,080
because, it draws like a big
I guess it will pull new players in.
416
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,040
Right. And then. No. Said
no. I enjoy playing that.
417
00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:37,080
I want to try something else.
418
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,800
But I do want to spend another $100 on
a game or whatever that's going to cost.
419
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:42,080
And so I might spend ten on this, split
the type over here.
420
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:43,360
And that's really
fun. I'll try another one.
421
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,680
Yeah.
422
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,120
Yeah.
423
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,720
Yeah, I think I think it's
because maybe I know
424
00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:05,760
there was a new Mario Kart with it,
but that was it, isn't it?
425
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,040
I think software ultimately sells.
426
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:09,600
It gets more attention.
427
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,120
Right than than hardware does.
And that's why I was a big fan.
428
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,120
I thought E3 was an important event
that we used to have every year that LA
429
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:16,880
is a big gaming show because it got
430
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,320
I used to be center for the BBC,
for example, you know, and that's that.
431
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,480
And you, you'd see gaming in places
you don't normally normally see it.
432
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,720
Because I still think do you,
do you ever get frustrated
433
00:44:27,720 --> 00:44:29,840
the fact that game is a scene
434
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:32,480
because I know you're on your podcast,
obviously about television and film
435
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,600
and other parts of culture
that we're still I, I'm asking people this
436
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,400
a lot
and people move on to the conversation,
437
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,800
but I'm just fascinated by this idea
of why games still isn't
438
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,560
thought of necessarily
in the same way by the gent, by the man
439
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,040
on the Clapham omnibus, or whatever
440
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,400
the saying is for the
that you median person in the UK.
441
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:54,000
I do find it fascinating that it hasn't
442
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,000
cut through in that sense,
so I thought it would have done by now.
443
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,360
Did it?
444
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,360
Yeah.
445
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,920
And Star Trek taught you all of this?
446
00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:34,640
Okay.
447
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:34,920
Thanks.
448
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,920
I if I.
449
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,760
Yeah.
450
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,320
Yeah.
451
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:37,160
Yeah.
452
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,960
games
453
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,960
Yeah.
454
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:40,240
Yeah.
455
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:11,160
Yeah.
456
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,360
Yeah.
457
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:48,880
Yeah.
458
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,600
Yeah.
459
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,160
Well, Mike,
listen, it's been a joy talking to you.
460
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:55,440
Thank you so much for your time. So,
461
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:57,960
well, I go to cut,
I let's let's turn into a positive.
462
00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:01,080
Just to finish off,
I suppose when you look back at your
463
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,320
your 15 years and all the different stuff
you've been able to achieve with your,
464
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,560
with your company
in the games that you've made and things.
465
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:07,080
What's that?
466
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,200
What what makes you proudest
and what makes you smile the most?
467
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,640
And what should people get excited
about that you're working on?
468
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,640
Oh, you're the guy available
soon or now or.
469
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,920
Yeah.
470
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:43,800
Oh, exciting.
471
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,120
Well,
we're looking forward to that. And. Yeah.
472
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:45,600
Play watch.
473
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,760
Listen, we've had Austin on.
474
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:49,000
We've had, you know, on Mike.
475
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:51,920
Now we've got to get a liner again
and then we can get all
476
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:54,520
we said we will have done.
We've done play. We've done watch.
477
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:56,040
Now we need to do listen.
478
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,960
So we've done
all three of the of the elements.
479
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:00,600
Mike it's been it's
been a joy chatting with you.
480
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,640
Thank you so much for giving us
your time has been really fascinating.
481
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:06,440
And getting your take on how you've got to
where you are
482
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,360
and your take on the current situation
of stuff.
483
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:12,680
And, and maybe the germ of an idea
for the first big Doctor
484
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:13,800
Who game we've had in ages.
485
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,240
Maybe it's
maybe that maybe that happened today.
486
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:18,920
Yeah, yeah.
487
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:20,040
Mike. Cheers, mate.
488
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,760
All the best.
489
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:23,000
Right.
490
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,800
Congratulations for being with us till
the very end for beating the end, boss.
491
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:28,440
You x beasts.
492
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,320
We can be back in your feeds once again
next Tuesday.
493
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,440
Until then, look after yourselves
and keep busy on the discord.
494
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:34,920
See you soon.
