Avik: DLSness, you know, like we talk about AI, artificial intelligence, like it's either going to save us or kind of replace us. But the question comes is like, what if the real question is not whether we should use AI, but how we stay human while we do use AI? Right? I mean, what are the tools we are building could amplify connection instead of erasing it? Right. And so today we are With someone who's spent years thinking about that exact tension and what it takes to make the technology feel less like a wall and more like it's a kind of bridge between the two. Right. So, dear listeners, I'm your host, Avik, and you are listening to Mind Meets Machine. This is the podcast where we slow down, get curious, and ask the questions that actually matters the most, and obviously about how we think. How we walk and how we stay whole in a world that keeps free. And today we have a very lovely guest with us. Please welcome Nathan Graham. So welcome to the show.
Nathan Graham: Thank you, Evie. Thank you so much for having me, man. This is I've been looking forward to this one. This is gonna be a good one. I love it.
Avik: Amazing. Amazing. Thank you so much for being here, Nathan. And there is like before we get into the discussion, I'll quickly introduce with Nathan. So Nathan is an entrepreneur, author, AI consultant and the founder of Synthetic Eco Incorporation. So where he helps people use AI to create and communicate without losing the human connection that builds trust. Yeah. So I do not want to take much time. Let's get started. So Nathan, I mean there's this there's this idea which is going around. Like if you are not using AI, you are falling behind. And if you are using it, then you are somehow cheating or kind of losing your voice. Then what is the biggest misconception here that people have about integrating AI into their work or their lives? So what do you have to say?
Nathan Graham: Yeah, so I think the two options that you're bringing up is definitely the two I hear the most. the biggest mistake is nobody looks at the third option, to be honest. So
Avik: Mm.
Nathan Graham: I I am an overall an optimist around AI. Obviously, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing if I wasn't. having said that, I do want to say, first of all, the the fears are very valid. I I think for people who do not embrace AI, their businesses will slowly die, whether that be over a two to five year period. And then the people who embrace it just to Trying to think of best word, but like the people who embrace AI to make their life just easy. Like they're not actually thinking about their content. They're not thinking about their voice and their brand. They're just producing to produce. They're also going to die. It's just going to replace them. But we have this beautiful third option where AI, I truly believe, has the potential to enhance what makes us truly special and human. So I'll give you an example. I've written a couple of books. I started one about three years ago. And when I started it, there was no way that I thought it was ever going to finish it. it wasn't like I didn't
Avik: Mm.
Nathan Graham: have publishers, I didn't have authors, blah, blah, blah, all the rest, right? And then this beautiful thing called AI came out. And I took it and I took my entire book, put it into AI. Now, I guess some part of me did feel like it was cheating at the start. But then the reality hit me is I could either do this through AI or I could pay some big publisher to do it. And a publisher is probably going to definitely make me lose my voice because they're going to tell me what the algorithm says to make it better. Where AI and I, we went back and forth and we explored it. So at the end of the day, AI shaped my vision. It didn't create my vision. And that's two very different aspects of it. And when you utilize AI to shape a vision, it has the ability to create something very beautiful and unique that's that's very human. And so I think the biggest misconception to your point, it's not that those first two ideas are wrong. I think they're very valid. It's that they often don't look at the third option that boils around mastery and creativeness and everything else.
Avik: Hmm. That's interesting. And so when we talk about that, like suppose when someone comes to you and he or she is worried that using AI will make them sound like a kind of machine or robotic or obviously impersonal. So what do you tell them?
Nathan Graham: Well, I tell I'll tell them exactly what we talked about. Is it's to guide AI. So my encouragement to them is first have a conversation with AI. So a big habit I've gotten into with I I primarily use Claude now, but that's because of the line of work I do. I did the same thing with Chat GPT and Gemini. but now I actually started brainstorming ideas. So in my head, I have all these ideas that if you I don't know necessarily know how to tell you, I can't explain it to you. I my these these ideas are here, but they're just I can't articulate them all. And I'm I feel like a lot of people go through this and this is where they their voice never truly comes out. So what I'll do is I'll go to a an AI program and be like, hey, I have this idea. How do I articulate this? And we'll go back and forth and discuss it and go through it. And eventually we'll find out how to create that that that voice behind it. So that's kind of what I'll tell people is it really depends on how you want to use AI. You can use AI to actually bring your voice out because sometimes the ideas that we have or the way we attempt to communicate, it's a very, very difficult thing to do, right? Especially to communicate properly. Which basically means to your point, is we didn't have a voice to begin with. We just had a lot of people taking the assumptions of what they think we know around us, not truly what we're trying to say, right?
Avik: So like I mean defin definitely this is really interesting. I'd say, I mean, we worry obviously so much like about the tool which is changing us then and and then
Nathan Graham: Mm-hmm.
Avik: we forget like we get to we get to decide like how we use it. So the question is not whether AI has a voice, but it's whether we are still showing up with ours. So
Nathan Graham: Mm-hmm.
Avik: that is
Nathan Graham: Well, exactly. Like, take a look at this this podcast. Is you know as well as I do, if we wanted to save a whole lot of time, we could get two AI bots, we could give it a couple of topics and can go ahead and have a conversation. But people don't want to listen to that. They don't want to listen to one AI argue with another AI. What they
Avik: Exactly.
Nathan Graham: want to hear is there's something genuine, like human beings relate to the world differently. Now, having
Avik: Yeah.
Nathan Graham: said that, I don't know about you, but I know in my life, I still use AI. Like maybe you use AI to help structure what an episode might look like. Maybe you use AI to help research. A potential person. And that's not AI taking over your voice. That's preparing you to allow you to focus on what you're good at, right?
Avik: Exactly. Exactly. Because yeah, I
Nathan Graham: Mm.
Avik: mean, it is not it is not a kind of negative thing for us. Yes, AI is something which is very, very helpful, I would say, in terms of helping us with a lot of things. Like for me also, like if I say it helps me find I mean understand about the guest, find about their profile, also help me schedule a lot of emails as well, which is the auto emails, which is kind of It is a one-time thing, you do not have to think and much. You just have to put and it will go. So all these things definitely it will help you segregate things. But yes, when there is a human thing comes, it is all about the discussion like like we are doing right now. So these definitely should be the human. It is something which AI can cannot also take over. I know like there are a lot of tools which are there via which you can definitely create the podcasts, but I mean it it isn't something is not valuable, right? Because you are not using your brain, you are not using the human touch into it. So yeah, definitely.
Nathan Graham: And the the interesting part too is if you're to take away a lot of that automation, this is why I say some people will get buried, because if you don't choose to embrace it, now you just won't be able to compete. Right. Like
Avik: Mm. Yeah.
Nathan Graham: I look at what I do in my company, and while I'm speaking to you, I have agents responding to messages. I have another agent that's coding. I have another one that's getting my I did AEO'd and SEO'd all my websites today. These are things I would traditionally have to pay tens of thousands of dollars to do. And so When you have that small person using AI to this advantage, even the bigger people can no longer compete with the workforce and the amount of time they get back. Right. So unfortunately,
Avik: Yeah. Yeah.
Nathan Graham: I I do think you have to embrace it. Yet to your point, you want to keep what's human human. And you have to make sure that what your skill set is, you you hold on to and retain. Right.
Avik: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly true.
Nathan Graham: Mm-hmm.
Avik: So also if you talk about a daily life, right? I mean I mean the practical part of it. So suppose when someone is trying to use the AI in a way that still feels like them, then what does that actually look like in the daily life? Like how does this show up in the real life or the real work that people are doing?
Nathan Graham: Yeah, so it it it shows up, I think, first of all, by automating the things that are holding you back or bogging you down. So prior to AI consulting, I did real estate. And I can tell you there was a lot of times you're going through emails, submitting paperwork, and and just doing brainless tasks that don't take creativity. And it's like for me, I'm not a paperwork guy. I know there's people who love it. Power to you. I'm just not that guy. And so using AI to automate that sort of thing is definitely. beneficial. That's how I use it without without losing my voice. And when I'm encouraging someone to get into it, first of all, I tell them to treat their AI like an assistant, not like a Google. Right. So converse with it, let it learn about you, share with it. Heck, I let AI read my emails, not just because I wanted to help organize my emails, but because I wanted to hear my voice. I wanted to know what it what I do. Right. And then basically for for lack of better word, it's not truly like this, but for lack of better word, the AI gets to know you. And then that way, as you're discussing it, it this is how again it enhances your voice because it knows what your voice is, right? here's a weird one. I'll just give you a weird example of this.
Avik: So
Nathan Graham: one rule I give my my AI rules to always follow, like always be honest. I tell it to tell me everything like I'm 14 years old because I want to be able to understand it. But one rule I give it that a lot of people don't even think about is I actually give it my moral code. Because morality and the way we make our decisions, it's not something that is universal. It it's really dependent on the person and it depends on what goes on. So if I want AI to advise me the way I would advise myself, I have to tell it things like I want this base of morality, right? And then that way it knows to come from that. And so this is the level I I recommend people get to know or let their AIs get to know them.
Avik: Right. Exactly. So like I mean w I mean if you can also like what is an example like when someone doing this well where you can feed the person behind the tool instead of just the output.
Nathan Graham: Yeah, so I well See, I don't think AI will rarely give you. Okay, I'm gonna back up. So you talked about
Avik: Mm-hmm. Okay.
Nathan Graham: the voice, like about how how it responds to email, right? I'm
Avik: Yeah, yeah.
Nathan Graham: actually I I I personally do not make my e my email me. I I have my my AI bot's name is Alice. And if you get an email from me, you'll always see hi, I am Alice Nathan's AI
Avik: Mm.
Nathan Graham: head lead administrator. And it admits who it is. Now, I give it my personality, I give it my flavor. For those who know me, I joke around. I give it my my voice style. But I make it very separate from me. I want to make sure that people because I I truly don't believe. I think if you're using AI to try to convince someone that it's you, it
Avik: Mm.
Nathan Graham: that's not going to work. That that that'll fall apart
Avik: Okay.
Nathan Graham: quick and you're going to lose trust very, very quickly. So this is kind of going back to what we're talking about is using the AI behind it. I hope I'm answering the question, but using the AI behind it is I'm not really trying to always make it in my voice. It it's handling the tasks that. I don't want to handle and I let it do it in its own voice. I just guide what that voice is. But
Avik: Yeah, yeah.
Nathan Graham: going back, like there's no way, for example, if I have a sales pitch, I am not putting an AI bot on that call to have that sales
Avik: Yeah, exactly.
Nathan Graham: pitch for me or a discovery call or anything else like that. This is where AI might advise me, but I still need that that human interaction. AI might give me the script, but I'm not reading the script verbatim. I'm going through it step by step, right? So I I I hope that answers it in a bit more. Does that kind of
Avik: Yeah, definitely.
Nathan Graham: Take what you're trying to get to? Yeah. Okay.
Avik: Definitely. Definitely. So so yes, definitely. So like yes, so for the for in terms of the email, like yes, it is it is about the e the the emails or anything, the reply, which is which is really, really helpful for with the AI is something which is where you are not using your brain to do it. I mean where it is you know like it is it is very general, like you just need to share things like So it'll be the same. Like the these things are not changing for everyone. So these are something which are kind of admin related things, which can definitely be done through AI. But yes, when like you mentioned about the sales page or something where you need to think and you need to respond, that is something which I also feel not feel I also do as well. So it's something which is human and it should be human only. So yeah.
Nathan Graham: And I think to expand off that too, like as I said, so I I, for example, one of the first programs I built, and we actually were just getting out of beta on it right now, is a social media poster for businesses. And what
Avik: Mm.
Nathan Graham: it what it'll essentially do is it'll take your business because to be trusted on social media, you need some odd like eight hours of content consumed by a user. It's an insane amount, right? Yet the way it's designed, first of all, it's not designed to trick people that it's me. It's designed to be a brand builder, but I also very specifically put in my brand. So it's always pulling off what my brand is. When when I wrote my book, the first book I wrote, again, I inputted 35,000 words of my own writing. It got to learn my voice, my style. One of the largest feedbacks I get from people who know me and read my book, they're like, it's like having a conversation with you, which is very
Avik: Exactly.
Nathan Graham: good. Now, I'm not a A natural-born writer at all. If if I were to do this before AI, I would have hired a ghostwriter where I would have given them the ideas, and I don't even think it would have produced it this well. So by giving AI the first sum of my work, then it learns my voice and now it knows how to direct my ideas. And now it knows how I tell my story. So when I tell AI my story and it retells it in the book, it
Avik: Mm.
Nathan Graham: sounds like it's coming from me. And then that's another way that I would retain my voice into it versus. Just going, I know a guy who does this and power to him, but he just goes and says, Okay, AI, write a book about this. And he doesn't even care what's in it. He just as long as it's good, it's factual, we're good. Well, that's not his voice anymore. That's AI just spewing up what AI wants, right?
Avik: Exactly, exactly true. So what you talk about the thing like suppose here's the here's the hard part definitely, which is when someone rises and they start using AI, maybe it works for a while, and then they notice that they are just drifting and they are leaning on it too much. Because I have seen a lot of people, a lot of corporates that so Most most people use the ML ML tools. So where they use it to create and make the response, the email responses also, and then they share it with, right? But what happens like it is it it becomes a kind of habit. So it's starting to feel empty that time, right? Or they have lost that thread of why they started that. So What do you do when that happens? Like how do you course correct without throwing that whole thing out?
Nathan Graham: So for me, when that happens, because that definitely does happen to me, is first of all, actually before I course correct, I have to see the signs that it's happening. And our business will tell us the signs. You'll see less engagement. I find it actually funny sometimes. My wife bugs me that I write an AI response to someone and then the AI respond back, and then I AI respond. I'm like, why don't you just get our AIs to talk to each other and work it out? Right. For me though, what I do is every once in a while I take The work and I deep dive into it. So I'll give you an example. I created a podcaster program because I run my own podcast and I found
Avik: Okay.
Nathan Graham: sorting through guests and researching guests and shows to get my voice across was a very lengthy process. So
Avik: Mm-hmm.
Nathan Graham: what I've done is I made it where I can cut and paste your profile into it and it does all the research and it lays out the whole show for me. And so when you come on, I know what to ask you. I know your background and everything else like that. And I find I can get through about 10 to 11 researches. before that restart search starts to drift. So what I have to do is about every 10 inputs, I go back in and I do all the research with it myself and I confirm all of it back. And then if I see it begin to drift, I go back to the AI and I tell it to correct itself. I show it where it's drifting and then it auto corrects itself and then goes back to it. Right.
Avik: Yeah.
Nathan Graham: So so I know it's not really a nice fancy answer. It's just I you have to get back to the basics. One of the things I think if we lose this AI war, you will lose your job if you don't get back to the basics. If if you let it keep drifting and just take over, that's a great way to prove to your employer or to your customer base that they don't actually need you. They just need an AI that sounds like you. Right? So just that. I take it back, I review, I check it over, I make sure it is a good fit. or I'll sometimes even argue against it. Like sometimes they'll be like, This is a bad fit, and I'll read through it. I'm like, no, it's actually a good fit. And then I readjust in course correct from there.
Avik: Lovely. So if you have to give one advice to the listeners today, what that will be.
Nathan Graham: Mastery. I think my my one piece of advice was whatever whatever you do, and I just alluded to it, if people find AI can replace you, it will. But AI can also help you develop a sense of mastery in a tool that we've never been able to before without large sums of money and large sums of help. So you have one of two options when you go to work or when you start your own business. The first one is you can let AI replace you and then you can just complain about it and tell the whole world why you were unfairly treated. Or you can take AI and start adapting it into your business, adapting it into your life, allowing it to teach you, allowing it to learn, take things off your plate to truly focus on mastering your talent. If if you do, like for example, I do AI consultations, the paperwork is not my talent. My presentation is my talent. So this gives me the freedom to master and work on the questions that help me guide a client properly. so if I were to give one piece of advice other than get the heck on it is as you are on it, use it as the tool of mastery that it can be to help what makes you human really come forward in a big
Avik: Hmm.
Nathan Graham: way.
Avik: Exactly. And if listeners want to connect with you, how they can connect?
Nathan Graham: The easiest way is syntheticcho.com. It has all my all my shows. It'll have this show on there. it'll have all my social media accounts, it'll have all the apps I create. Then you can from there, if you want to follow me and message me on Instagram, you're more than welcome to or LinkedIn or whatever that looks like. but the easiest way is go to syntheticcho and that'll have my entire life to reach out to me on.
Avik: Amazing. So the listeners, what I'll do is I'll put all the links, details, everything into the show notes for easy reference. And I'd say the tools that we choose, it actually shapes us. But only if we forget we are the ones who are choosing. Right. So thank you so much, Nathan, for sharing your perspectives and the examples as well. So it's really great. And listeners like before we go, I definitely want to mention this that technology will keep evolving. Right. AI will keep getting better at mimicking, right? Predicting, producing and all. But the part of you that that knows like what matters, the part that decides, which I mean what's worth saying and or who's worth saying to, it's that doesn't get automated. Like the human part obviously, that stays human always. And the more important thing, the more the world speeds up. the more that matters the most. So thank you so much for being here. I'm your host Avik and this is
Nathan Graham: Awesome.
Avik: Mind Me's Mission. So stay curious, stay human, and see you next one.
Nathan Graham: Thank you.
Nathan Graham: Thank you, Evie. Thank you so much for having me, man. This is I've been looking forward to this one. This is gonna be a good one. I love it.
Avik: Amazing. Amazing. Thank you so much for being here, Nathan. And there is like before we get into the discussion, I'll quickly introduce with Nathan. So Nathan is an entrepreneur, author, AI consultant and the founder of Synthetic Eco Incorporation. So where he helps people use AI to create and communicate without losing the human connection that builds trust. Yeah. So I do not want to take much time. Let's get started. So Nathan, I mean there's this there's this idea which is going around. Like if you are not using AI, you are falling behind. And if you are using it, then you are somehow cheating or kind of losing your voice. Then what is the biggest misconception here that people have about integrating AI into their work or their lives? So what do you have to say?
Nathan Graham: Yeah, so I think the two options that you're bringing up is definitely the two I hear the most. the biggest mistake is nobody looks at the third option, to be honest. So
Avik: Mm.
Nathan Graham: I I am an overall an optimist around AI. Obviously, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing if I wasn't. having said that, I do want to say, first of all, the the fears are very valid. I I think for people who do not embrace AI, their businesses will slowly die, whether that be over a two to five year period. And then the people who embrace it just to Trying to think of best word, but like the people who embrace AI to make their life just easy. Like they're not actually thinking about their content. They're not thinking about their voice and their brand. They're just producing to produce. They're also going to die. It's just going to replace them. But we have this beautiful third option where AI, I truly believe, has the potential to enhance what makes us truly special and human. So I'll give you an example. I've written a couple of books. I started one about three years ago. And when I started it, there was no way that I thought it was ever going to finish it. it wasn't like I didn't
Avik: Mm.
Nathan Graham: have publishers, I didn't have authors, blah, blah, blah, all the rest, right? And then this beautiful thing called AI came out. And I took it and I took my entire book, put it into AI. Now, I guess some part of me did feel like it was cheating at the start. But then the reality hit me is I could either do this through AI or I could pay some big publisher to do it. And a publisher is probably going to definitely make me lose my voice because they're going to tell me what the algorithm says to make it better. Where AI and I, we went back and forth and we explored it. So at the end of the day, AI shaped my vision. It didn't create my vision. And that's two very different aspects of it. And when you utilize AI to shape a vision, it has the ability to create something very beautiful and unique that's that's very human. And so I think the biggest misconception to your point, it's not that those first two ideas are wrong. I think they're very valid. It's that they often don't look at the third option that boils around mastery and creativeness and everything else.
Avik: Hmm. That's interesting. And so when we talk about that, like suppose when someone comes to you and he or she is worried that using AI will make them sound like a kind of machine or robotic or obviously impersonal. So what do you tell them?
Nathan Graham: Well, I tell I'll tell them exactly what we talked about. Is it's to guide AI. So my encouragement to them is first have a conversation with AI. So a big habit I've gotten into with I I primarily use Claude now, but that's because of the line of work I do. I did the same thing with Chat GPT and Gemini. but now I actually started brainstorming ideas. So in my head, I have all these ideas that if you I don't know necessarily know how to tell you, I can't explain it to you. I my these these ideas are here, but they're just I can't articulate them all. And I'm I feel like a lot of people go through this and this is where they their voice never truly comes out. So what I'll do is I'll go to a an AI program and be like, hey, I have this idea. How do I articulate this? And we'll go back and forth and discuss it and go through it. And eventually we'll find out how to create that that that voice behind it. So that's kind of what I'll tell people is it really depends on how you want to use AI. You can use AI to actually bring your voice out because sometimes the ideas that we have or the way we attempt to communicate, it's a very, very difficult thing to do, right? Especially to communicate properly. Which basically means to your point, is we didn't have a voice to begin with. We just had a lot of people taking the assumptions of what they think we know around us, not truly what we're trying to say, right?
Avik: So like I mean defin definitely this is really interesting. I'd say, I mean, we worry obviously so much like about the tool which is changing us then and and then
Nathan Graham: Mm-hmm.
Avik: we forget like we get to we get to decide like how we use it. So the question is not whether AI has a voice, but it's whether we are still showing up with ours. So
Nathan Graham: Mm-hmm.
Avik: that is
Nathan Graham: Well, exactly. Like, take a look at this this podcast. Is you know as well as I do, if we wanted to save a whole lot of time, we could get two AI bots, we could give it a couple of topics and can go ahead and have a conversation. But people don't want to listen to that. They don't want to listen to one AI argue with another AI. What they
Avik: Exactly.
Nathan Graham: want to hear is there's something genuine, like human beings relate to the world differently. Now, having
Avik: Yeah.
Nathan Graham: said that, I don't know about you, but I know in my life, I still use AI. Like maybe you use AI to help structure what an episode might look like. Maybe you use AI to help research. A potential person. And that's not AI taking over your voice. That's preparing you to allow you to focus on what you're good at, right?
Avik: Exactly. Exactly. Because yeah, I
Nathan Graham: Mm.
Avik: mean, it is not it is not a kind of negative thing for us. Yes, AI is something which is very, very helpful, I would say, in terms of helping us with a lot of things. Like for me also, like if I say it helps me find I mean understand about the guest, find about their profile, also help me schedule a lot of emails as well, which is the auto emails, which is kind of It is a one-time thing, you do not have to think and much. You just have to put and it will go. So all these things definitely it will help you segregate things. But yes, when there is a human thing comes, it is all about the discussion like like we are doing right now. So these definitely should be the human. It is something which AI can cannot also take over. I know like there are a lot of tools which are there via which you can definitely create the podcasts, but I mean it it isn't something is not valuable, right? Because you are not using your brain, you are not using the human touch into it. So yeah, definitely.
Nathan Graham: And the the interesting part too is if you're to take away a lot of that automation, this is why I say some people will get buried, because if you don't choose to embrace it, now you just won't be able to compete. Right. Like
Avik: Mm. Yeah.
Nathan Graham: I look at what I do in my company, and while I'm speaking to you, I have agents responding to messages. I have another agent that's coding. I have another one that's getting my I did AEO'd and SEO'd all my websites today. These are things I would traditionally have to pay tens of thousands of dollars to do. And so When you have that small person using AI to this advantage, even the bigger people can no longer compete with the workforce and the amount of time they get back. Right. So unfortunately,
Avik: Yeah. Yeah.
Nathan Graham: I I do think you have to embrace it. Yet to your point, you want to keep what's human human. And you have to make sure that what your skill set is, you you hold on to and retain. Right.
Avik: Yeah. Exactly. Exactly true.
Nathan Graham: Mm-hmm.
Avik: So also if you talk about a daily life, right? I mean I mean the practical part of it. So suppose when someone is trying to use the AI in a way that still feels like them, then what does that actually look like in the daily life? Like how does this show up in the real life or the real work that people are doing?
Nathan Graham: Yeah, so it it it shows up, I think, first of all, by automating the things that are holding you back or bogging you down. So prior to AI consulting, I did real estate. And I can tell you there was a lot of times you're going through emails, submitting paperwork, and and just doing brainless tasks that don't take creativity. And it's like for me, I'm not a paperwork guy. I know there's people who love it. Power to you. I'm just not that guy. And so using AI to automate that sort of thing is definitely. beneficial. That's how I use it without without losing my voice. And when I'm encouraging someone to get into it, first of all, I tell them to treat their AI like an assistant, not like a Google. Right. So converse with it, let it learn about you, share with it. Heck, I let AI read my emails, not just because I wanted to help organize my emails, but because I wanted to hear my voice. I wanted to know what it what I do. Right. And then basically for for lack of better word, it's not truly like this, but for lack of better word, the AI gets to know you. And then that way, as you're discussing it, it this is how again it enhances your voice because it knows what your voice is, right? here's a weird one. I'll just give you a weird example of this.
Avik: So
Nathan Graham: one rule I give my my AI rules to always follow, like always be honest. I tell it to tell me everything like I'm 14 years old because I want to be able to understand it. But one rule I give it that a lot of people don't even think about is I actually give it my moral code. Because morality and the way we make our decisions, it's not something that is universal. It it's really dependent on the person and it depends on what goes on. So if I want AI to advise me the way I would advise myself, I have to tell it things like I want this base of morality, right? And then that way it knows to come from that. And so this is the level I I recommend people get to know or let their AIs get to know them.
Avik: Right. Exactly. So like I mean w I mean if you can also like what is an example like when someone doing this well where you can feed the person behind the tool instead of just the output.
Nathan Graham: Yeah, so I well See, I don't think AI will rarely give you. Okay, I'm gonna back up. So you talked about
Avik: Mm-hmm. Okay.
Nathan Graham: the voice, like about how how it responds to email, right? I'm
Avik: Yeah, yeah.
Nathan Graham: actually I I I personally do not make my e my email me. I I have my my AI bot's name is Alice. And if you get an email from me, you'll always see hi, I am Alice Nathan's AI
Avik: Mm.
Nathan Graham: head lead administrator. And it admits who it is. Now, I give it my personality, I give it my flavor. For those who know me, I joke around. I give it my my voice style. But I make it very separate from me. I want to make sure that people because I I truly don't believe. I think if you're using AI to try to convince someone that it's you, it
Avik: Mm.
Nathan Graham: that's not going to work. That that that'll fall apart
Avik: Okay.
Nathan Graham: quick and you're going to lose trust very, very quickly. So this is kind of going back to what we're talking about is using the AI behind it. I hope I'm answering the question, but using the AI behind it is I'm not really trying to always make it in my voice. It it's handling the tasks that. I don't want to handle and I let it do it in its own voice. I just guide what that voice is. But
Avik: Yeah, yeah.
Nathan Graham: going back, like there's no way, for example, if I have a sales pitch, I am not putting an AI bot on that call to have that sales
Avik: Yeah, exactly.
Nathan Graham: pitch for me or a discovery call or anything else like that. This is where AI might advise me, but I still need that that human interaction. AI might give me the script, but I'm not reading the script verbatim. I'm going through it step by step, right? So I I I hope that answers it in a bit more. Does that kind of
Avik: Yeah, definitely.
Nathan Graham: Take what you're trying to get to? Yeah. Okay.
Avik: Definitely. Definitely. So so yes, definitely. So like yes, so for the for in terms of the email, like yes, it is it is about the e the the emails or anything, the reply, which is which is really, really helpful for with the AI is something which is where you are not using your brain to do it. I mean where it is you know like it is it is very general, like you just need to share things like So it'll be the same. Like the these things are not changing for everyone. So these are something which are kind of admin related things, which can definitely be done through AI. But yes, when like you mentioned about the sales page or something where you need to think and you need to respond, that is something which I also feel not feel I also do as well. So it's something which is human and it should be human only. So yeah.
Nathan Graham: And I think to expand off that too, like as I said, so I I, for example, one of the first programs I built, and we actually were just getting out of beta on it right now, is a social media poster for businesses. And what
Avik: Mm.
Nathan Graham: it what it'll essentially do is it'll take your business because to be trusted on social media, you need some odd like eight hours of content consumed by a user. It's an insane amount, right? Yet the way it's designed, first of all, it's not designed to trick people that it's me. It's designed to be a brand builder, but I also very specifically put in my brand. So it's always pulling off what my brand is. When when I wrote my book, the first book I wrote, again, I inputted 35,000 words of my own writing. It got to learn my voice, my style. One of the largest feedbacks I get from people who know me and read my book, they're like, it's like having a conversation with you, which is very
Avik: Exactly.
Nathan Graham: good. Now, I'm not a A natural-born writer at all. If if I were to do this before AI, I would have hired a ghostwriter where I would have given them the ideas, and I don't even think it would have produced it this well. So by giving AI the first sum of my work, then it learns my voice and now it knows how to direct my ideas. And now it knows how I tell my story. So when I tell AI my story and it retells it in the book, it
Avik: Mm.
Nathan Graham: sounds like it's coming from me. And then that's another way that I would retain my voice into it versus. Just going, I know a guy who does this and power to him, but he just goes and says, Okay, AI, write a book about this. And he doesn't even care what's in it. He just as long as it's good, it's factual, we're good. Well, that's not his voice anymore. That's AI just spewing up what AI wants, right?
Avik: Exactly, exactly true. So what you talk about the thing like suppose here's the here's the hard part definitely, which is when someone rises and they start using AI, maybe it works for a while, and then they notice that they are just drifting and they are leaning on it too much. Because I have seen a lot of people, a lot of corporates that so Most most people use the ML ML tools. So where they use it to create and make the response, the email responses also, and then they share it with, right? But what happens like it is it it becomes a kind of habit. So it's starting to feel empty that time, right? Or they have lost that thread of why they started that. So What do you do when that happens? Like how do you course correct without throwing that whole thing out?
Nathan Graham: So for me, when that happens, because that definitely does happen to me, is first of all, actually before I course correct, I have to see the signs that it's happening. And our business will tell us the signs. You'll see less engagement. I find it actually funny sometimes. My wife bugs me that I write an AI response to someone and then the AI respond back, and then I AI respond. I'm like, why don't you just get our AIs to talk to each other and work it out? Right. For me though, what I do is every once in a while I take The work and I deep dive into it. So I'll give you an example. I created a podcaster program because I run my own podcast and I found
Avik: Okay.
Nathan Graham: sorting through guests and researching guests and shows to get my voice across was a very lengthy process. So
Avik: Mm-hmm.
Nathan Graham: what I've done is I made it where I can cut and paste your profile into it and it does all the research and it lays out the whole show for me. And so when you come on, I know what to ask you. I know your background and everything else like that. And I find I can get through about 10 to 11 researches. before that restart search starts to drift. So what I have to do is about every 10 inputs, I go back in and I do all the research with it myself and I confirm all of it back. And then if I see it begin to drift, I go back to the AI and I tell it to correct itself. I show it where it's drifting and then it auto corrects itself and then goes back to it. Right.
Avik: Yeah.
Nathan Graham: So so I know it's not really a nice fancy answer. It's just I you have to get back to the basics. One of the things I think if we lose this AI war, you will lose your job if you don't get back to the basics. If if you let it keep drifting and just take over, that's a great way to prove to your employer or to your customer base that they don't actually need you. They just need an AI that sounds like you. Right? So just that. I take it back, I review, I check it over, I make sure it is a good fit. or I'll sometimes even argue against it. Like sometimes they'll be like, This is a bad fit, and I'll read through it. I'm like, no, it's actually a good fit. And then I readjust in course correct from there.
Avik: Lovely. So if you have to give one advice to the listeners today, what that will be.
Nathan Graham: Mastery. I think my my one piece of advice was whatever whatever you do, and I just alluded to it, if people find AI can replace you, it will. But AI can also help you develop a sense of mastery in a tool that we've never been able to before without large sums of money and large sums of help. So you have one of two options when you go to work or when you start your own business. The first one is you can let AI replace you and then you can just complain about it and tell the whole world why you were unfairly treated. Or you can take AI and start adapting it into your business, adapting it into your life, allowing it to teach you, allowing it to learn, take things off your plate to truly focus on mastering your talent. If if you do, like for example, I do AI consultations, the paperwork is not my talent. My presentation is my talent. So this gives me the freedom to master and work on the questions that help me guide a client properly. so if I were to give one piece of advice other than get the heck on it is as you are on it, use it as the tool of mastery that it can be to help what makes you human really come forward in a big
Avik: Hmm.
Nathan Graham: way.
Avik: Exactly. And if listeners want to connect with you, how they can connect?
Nathan Graham: The easiest way is syntheticcho.com. It has all my all my shows. It'll have this show on there. it'll have all my social media accounts, it'll have all the apps I create. Then you can from there, if you want to follow me and message me on Instagram, you're more than welcome to or LinkedIn or whatever that looks like. but the easiest way is go to syntheticcho and that'll have my entire life to reach out to me on.
Avik: Amazing. So the listeners, what I'll do is I'll put all the links, details, everything into the show notes for easy reference. And I'd say the tools that we choose, it actually shapes us. But only if we forget we are the ones who are choosing. Right. So thank you so much, Nathan, for sharing your perspectives and the examples as well. So it's really great. And listeners like before we go, I definitely want to mention this that technology will keep evolving. Right. AI will keep getting better at mimicking, right? Predicting, producing and all. But the part of you that that knows like what matters, the part that decides, which I mean what's worth saying and or who's worth saying to, it's that doesn't get automated. Like the human part obviously, that stays human always. And the more important thing, the more the world speeds up. the more that matters the most. So thank you so much for being here. I'm your host Avik and this is
Nathan Graham: Awesome.
Avik: Mind Me's Mission. So stay curious, stay human, and see you next one.
Nathan Graham: Thank you.
