S01 EP68: Philippa Perry

WEBVTT
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Hello, I'm Josh Whitacombe.
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And I'm Rob Beckett.
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Welcome to Lockdown Parenting Hell. The show in which Rob
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and I discuss what it's like to be a parent
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during lockdown, which I would say can be a little tricky.
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Yeah!
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Yeah! So, in an effort to make some kind of
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sense of the current situation... And to.
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Make me feel better about my increasingly terrible parenting skills.
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Each episode, we'll be chatting to a famous parent about
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how well they're coping.
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Or hopefully not.
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And we will be hearing from you, the listener, with
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your tales of lockdown parenting woe.
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Because, let's be honest, none of us know what we're doing.
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Hello and welcome to Lockdown Parenting Hell with.
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My bucket. Can you say Josh Widdicombe? Josh Widdicombe. Well done.
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You can have a chocolate now.
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Amazing.
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I mean, the efficiency there, that was instant.
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Well done. Have a chocolate. See you later. That mum
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does not fuck about.
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And also, Lauren, who is, I'm presuming that is.
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Yeah.
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You know, people have a voice they use for talking
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to their child. She's the first person I've ever met
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that doesn't have a different voice for talking to her child. Maybe,
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if you could just say, well, Beckett, I'm really content.
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All right, yeah. Yep, good. Right, here's the chocolate. See
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you later.
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She sounds like she's talking to a PA, like in
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the middle of a busy day.
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Okay, cool.
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Yeah, just get those flights booked and just change up
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meeting for next week.
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Thank you.
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Okay, cool.
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Yeah, just basically just whatever fits you with tier three.
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Thank you very much.
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Cool.
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Next call. Yep, what's that?
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Yep, cool.
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There's the chocolate.
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Bye.
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Say that name. Oh, hello. Oh, you're my child, are you?
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Brilliant.
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How's homework?
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Good.
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Okay.
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Yeah, you're a pool?
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Yep.
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Okay, pool. See you later.
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She's efficient. Lauren's efficient.
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Would love to know what her job is.
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That is Niamh. She's three in January and we live
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in a beautiful picturesque borough of Croydon.
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Oh, lovely stuff.
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Also, here is a tip for parents who, like myself,
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have found themselves in a situation where they have to
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isolate for 14 days because some kid has tested positive
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in their kid's bubble at school. Write numbers and words
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on pieces of paper and hide them all around the house.
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Sit on the sofa and shout out words and numbers
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for your children to find. Ta-da! Homeschooling.
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That is good.
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So efficient, isn't she?
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Especially if you're like, because mine's in the first year
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of reception, like they are doing certain words that they've
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got to get to know. So that's quite good practice.
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You've got to practice that anyway.
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To be fair to Lauren, she's got a five-year-old, a
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three-year-old and a two-month-old.
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Oh my God, no wonder she's efficient.
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She's been 14 days of lockdown. No wonder she's speaking
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in such a monotone.
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Is that no wonder there's no joy in her voice?
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You're just getting through the day, Lauren. I get it. Yeah.
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You're wallpapering words over your walls just to keep the
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kids busy. I've been there. You've got to do what you've.
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Got to do. How are you, Rob?
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I'm good.
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I'm not too bad.
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I've opened the treasure chest.
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That is our Instagram messages. It's an absolute... It's like
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the Wild West on there, mate.
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Is it?
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There's no like... formalities of an email because normally an
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email it's always like hi big fan of the pod
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and also because it comes from an official account and
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name and also because it's a bit more secret on
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Instagram because you could have a picture you could have
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no picture it could be locked we've got one here
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which is quite exciting can we see a picture and
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or get producer Michael's surname so we can stalk him
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on behalf of all women listening to the Tom Allen
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episode so it sounds like producer Michael's got a sexy
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voice because that lady seemed very keen on producer Michael But,
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you know, I think, you know, voices can be deceiving.
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He's disgusting. All right, guys.
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Here he is. Here he is.
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Sexy Michael. Michael, have you been told.
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You've had a sexy voice before?
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Well, I have actually. It's not the first time I've
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heard it, yeah.
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Producing up his voice that it's more bassy now.
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Right michael yeah that is it sounds i don't know
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if because someone's pointed out it's sexy it sounds sexy
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or you're making it sexier subconsciously but what would you
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say is this your normal voice then would you say
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do you put on a talking on the air voice.
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I'd say if my normal voice is an eight i've
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gone to an 11 just as a treat oh.
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That's so we should maybe take requests of things to
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say Can you say, I've just put the kids both down.
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They're going to sleep for 12 hours.
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You can have a lie-in.
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Because I think for our listenership, that could absolutely blow
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the roof off.
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What's her name?
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It's good.
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If you don't do the name, then every woman who's
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listening can enjoy it.
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Okay. Let's do this for Lucy because she's reached out.
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So just say, Lucy, I'll put the kids to bed
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and tomorrow you can have a lie-in.
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Hey, Lucy, I've put the kids to bed. I've run
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you a nice bath. Why don't you have a lie-in
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tomorrow and I'll take them to school?
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Oh, even I'm up for it and it's not March.
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I'm going to say it. Very rarely to your partner
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do you say, hey, before you say their name.
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I know but that's he's trying to create the ideal
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scenario not it's your fucking turn to do it i
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did it last time which is how it normally sounds
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so michael thank you and i think lucy's gonna really
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enjoy that very good that's just for this christmas present
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for lucy um we've got some cow tongue debate coming in.
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Oh i was just gonna say yeah go on to
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me again i really more and more i'm a I
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think bedtime is, I'm just obsessed with how overrated it is, Rob.
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I know. It's the main thing that you talk about
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is how much you hate bedtime.
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I enjoy the rest so much more than bedtime.
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It's crap.
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But what about when they're all like clean and cosy
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in their pyjamas?
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Yeah, but that's the last bit of bedtime.
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I know what you mean.
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But I'm not a massive fan of it. I do
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think it's overrated.
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How would you rank the following things? Bedtime, including bath.
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Yeah.
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The first 20 minutes of the day. Yeah. Car journeys.
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Are you just listing things you hate?
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Well, yeah, I'm putting the things that I think might
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be in competition.
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Oh, so as the worst things, the most overrated things.
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The car journeys, the first 20 minutes of the day.
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And bedtimes.
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The first 20 minutes of the day is so bleak.
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The slow realization of what you've done to your life.
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But after 25 minutes of the coffee, you put that
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to the back of your mind and carry on the
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fucking grind.
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Is that what you're saying?
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I think the, the first 10 minutes of the day
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are tough, but I'd actually say then the following two hours,
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I'm absolutely on top of my game. If I haven't
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had any alcohol in my system, you're peaking normally, almost
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always the case at the moment. Uh, I mean, in
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the last three years.
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I was watching the boxing and I got that perfect
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pint drafting and I had three pints of beer and
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I was absolutely battered. I've not been drinking for weeks
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and months. I've not been going out.
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I've not been going out for dinners. You can't do anything,
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can you?
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I was so drunk. I felt awful the next day.
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I couldn't cope.
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It's pathetic.
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It is.
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But if I haven't been drinking, the time between, say,
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say she wakes up at 6.30, from 6.40 to 8.40,
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I am fucking invincible.
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I kick in at about 10 a.m. I can't cope
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in the morning.
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Oh, no.
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And then I have such a 9 a.m. dip when
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I'm like, oh, my God, I've given everything.
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I've given it all.
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I've given it all. I've gone too early.
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It's like when a crap team plays Liverpool in the
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FA Cup third round, like League Three, and they just
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absolutely go for it the first half. And in the
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last 20 minutes, they score six. We've got nothing left
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in the tank. We've got some more cow tongue stuff here.
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It's a story that won't go away. This is from
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some guy on Instagram, agound85. Nothing makes sense, does it,
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in the new social media? What kind of name is that, Mr.
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Agound? We are so old. We're talking about how you
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can't handle three pints if you don't understand social media.
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But what I do understand is Brexit and we need it.
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OK, guys, we need to I just want to get
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some bloody independence back.
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Do you remember when there.
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Was like middle aged comics that thought we were those
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awful young comics? And now we're the middle aged comics, Rob.
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But we don't think the young people are awful. We
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just don't understand them.
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Yes, but I don't understand them. But I don't begrudge
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the youth. I'm excited by the youth. I find it
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funny and endearing and likable when you see young people
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just going mental and going for it.
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I don't say they're going, oh, God, they're idiots.
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It's stupid.
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I think brilliant. Don't be a lunatic.
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So I think that's the difference. You will get old.
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You will get middle-aged. You won't be able to hold
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your drink forever. But as long as you don't hate
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everyone else while that's happening, I think you'll be okay.
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Do you know what I mean? Because it's mainly jealousy.
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You know what? There's our Christmas message to the nation.
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As long as you don't hate everyone, you're going to
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be okay.
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Exactly.
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It's a lot of time.
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You waste a lot of time hating people, don't you? Anyway,
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this is Cow Tongue Gate. Anyway, back to the cow tongues.
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Someone once brought some cow tongue into our local pub. Basically,
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if you didn't hear on previous episodes how funny cow's
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tongues are and kids love them. Anyway, someone brought some
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cow tongue into a local pub for a snack. My
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brother refused to eat the end of the tongue because
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the cow would have used it to lick its own arse.
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This led into a massive drunk debate about whether or
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not a cow is able to lick its own arse.
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I personally don't think a cow is flexible enough, and
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even though it has a long tongue, not enough, that's
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not long enough to lick its own arse. Any chance
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you could clear this argument up?
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Thanks, Adam.
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I agree, it's not flexible enough.
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Is it?
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No, it hasn't got the neck or the agility to
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lick its own arse. It's not a cat.
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No, there's no way.
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It can lick its own ear and lick its own nostril, sure.
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Can it lick its own arse? Not for the want
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of trying, it can't. But it can't. It cannot reach it.
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But I think it would if it could, if that
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helps solve the argument, Adam. Thoughts, Josh?
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I agree that the cow's not going to be able
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to lick its own arse. But also, I don't know
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if that's the reason not to eat a tongue that's
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been brought into a pub.
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Yeah.
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Yeah on a side though i agree with that i
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mean whether it's touched anus or not i would not
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eat the end of a tongue brought into a pub
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no i think that's something we can all agree on.
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No there's bigger issues at play than yeah a hypothetical anus.
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We've got this from rebecca stark um first thanks for
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bringing me so much joy every week. Secondly, I've just
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been reading the top baby names of 2020. I'm pregnant,
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not just for a morning browse. And the article I
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00:10:08.299 --> 00:10:10.679
read from Baby Centre said that the number of babies
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registered as Malcolm this year has doubled.
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Whoa, from one to two?
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Ha! Oh, you're good, Josh.
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Do you know what?
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You've always got a 30-yarder hidden away, haven't you? Do
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you know what I mean?
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Just a bit of fun.
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Oh, out of nowhere, top corner from the Widdicombe there.
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It said the baby has doubled, baby centre, put it
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down to people watching Malcolm X during lockdown. But surely
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it's all down to people listening to your podcast. I'd
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00:10:37.110 --> 00:10:39.070
like to say it's probably a 50-50 split between us
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and Malcolm X on the name, don't you think?
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I think it's impossible for people to tell, and you've
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got to say that surely our market is the naming
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kids market. So if anything.
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00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:50.679
Well, yeah, I mean, I'm not saying pregnant women don't
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watch the Malcolm X film. I'm just saying there's probably,
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you know, more pregnant women listening to this than watching
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that over the summer, potentially, wouldn't you say?
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I'd say that's 100% true. I've got an email on
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a similar thing.
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Oh, okay.
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And I want you to make the decision. Greetings from Canada. Oh, yeah.
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00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:09.450
So my partner and I have started distracting ourselves with
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British telly during the lockdown in March.
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From Taskmaster.
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We started, you're another contestant stand-up, et cetera, et cetera.
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Perhaps I've missed it. We're a few episodes behind. They
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haven't missed it. But I'm interested to know if Josh's
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daughter has ever earned a Gavin and Malcolm style moniker
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of her own.
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Oh, yeah.
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We haven't asked.
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In case it's an issue of being out of ideas,
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I can offer three. So here's three.
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Yeah.
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And you can choose, Rob.
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00:11:35.240 --> 00:11:35.419
Yep.
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Lionel.
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Oh, I like that.
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Clive.
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Yep.
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Or Bramwell.
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Yep.
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Branwell's left field isn't it.
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Yeah i've never heard of branwell as a name no
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i'm gonna rule out branwell so you can go clive
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or lionel.
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00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:52.389
Well the thing is when you hear lionel what do
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you think of first richie or messi.
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00:11:54.529 --> 00:11:58.250
Uh lionel messi 100 yeah so because i think that's
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00:11:58.269 --> 00:12:00.830
that there's a generation gap there people would go think
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of richie before messi yeah the other one is do
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00:12:03.009 --> 00:12:05.450
you remember the the sitcom as time goes by with
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judy dench and jeffrey palmer yeah yeah I think he
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was called Lionel in that. That's the only other Lionel
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I can think of.
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I think Clive.
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Lionel.
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I like Clive. Clive Widdicombe?
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00:12:15.139 --> 00:12:16.559
Yeah, Clive. Let's go with Clive.
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00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:18.120
Yeah, go with Clive so we can refer to her
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as Clive.
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I'm going to go with my daughter as Clive from
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now on. Thank you, Julia. There are Malcolms around, aren't there?
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00:12:24.690 --> 00:12:27.529
There's Malcolm Tucker is a big character in the thick
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of it. Malcolm Gladwell. Malcolm Gladwell. Yeah.
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00:12:31.309 --> 00:12:34.480
Malcolm, the right back. The right back called Malcolm for Brazil.
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Just called Malcolm. I'm obsessed with Brazilian footballers. that have
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00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:41.120
just got boring, normal names.
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00:12:41.950 --> 00:12:42.259
Fred.
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00:12:42.870 --> 00:12:46.710
Fred, Malcolm, Allerton.
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00:12:49.230 --> 00:12:51.850
My mate's mum was called Allerton, or still is called Allerton.
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00:12:52.009 --> 00:12:53.529
And I just can't, I just think of her in
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goal when Allerton's in goal. It just makes me feel
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like we're down the park.
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And he's brought his mum.
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We've also got a conspiracy here, Josh.
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I don't know if you're aware of this.
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00:13:03.149 --> 00:13:05.039
This is about 5G. I'm not on board.
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00:13:06.279 --> 00:13:09.460
Okay, I'll get Eamon Holmes on for a chat about it. Conspiracy.
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00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:11.659
I've listened to every episode of your podcast, but just
350
00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:15.039
a couple of each of these podcasts. Basically, they've got
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00:13:15.059 --> 00:13:17.659
a screenshot of their top three podcasts they've listened to
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00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:19.919
this year. So in the top three of their podcasts
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00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:23.399
are Shag, Married, Annoyed, Chris and Rosie Ramsey, Catherine Bryan,
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00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:26.460
Telling Everybody Everything, and Off Menu with Ed Gamble and
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00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:27.120
James Acaster.
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Great podcast. I've got no beef with those guys. Good
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luck to them. But it says.
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00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:34.110
Yet yours doesn't appear in my Spotify end of year
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top podcast of the year.
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I know how important awards are to Josh.
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00:13:38.350 --> 00:13:41.769
So hopefully this is a one-off and hasn't affected your ratings.
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00:13:41.789 --> 00:13:43.309
Your podcast has been a huge part of our lives
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00:13:43.330 --> 00:13:45.570
during lockdown. I do think, though, that we have only
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started this halfway through the year.
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00:13:47.269 --> 00:13:49.049
Do you know.
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00:13:48.750 --> 00:13:51.179
What I mean? So 2021 is going to be our year, Josh,
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I think.
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00:13:51.500 --> 00:13:54.159
Well, we've made it. I was happy to see that
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00:13:54.179 --> 00:13:56.419
we've made it into the– I wonder if it's still
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on there. I clicked on iTunes. They did their top.
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new podcasts of.
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2020 biggest new shows that.
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One biggest new shows that one yeah we're on that
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00:14:06.299 --> 00:14:08.970
one aren't we we're on that one with Louis Theroux.
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00:14:08.950 --> 00:14:10.870
Can't get away we can't shake him can we.
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00:14:11.169 --> 00:14:13.710
He's doing a second series he's doing a bloody second
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00:14:13.730 --> 00:14:19.549
series we're in trouble Louis Theroux us Catherine and others,
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00:14:20.429 --> 00:14:24.980
Joe Wicks, et cetera, AmeriCast. But yes, the dream next year, Rob,
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00:14:25.399 --> 00:14:27.539
that below that is the biggest shows of 2020.
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00:14:27.539 --> 00:14:29.919
Yeah, but next year, fingers crossed for next year.
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00:14:29.940 --> 00:14:31.820
But I think it does feel like we've done this forever,
382
00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:34.580
but we've literally only started this, what, in May, June time,
383
00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:34.870
was it?
384
00:14:35.179 --> 00:14:37.379
Exactly. We're already so jaded.
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00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:39.340
Can you remember in August when people said you've got
386
00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:42.279
to change your name from lockdown whilst we're in mid-tier three?
387
00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:43.899
We knew. We knew.
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00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:46.019
I think, yeah, we'll maybe change it next year.
389
00:14:46.379 --> 00:14:49.210
We'll see. But yeah, I don't think it's a conspiracy.
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00:14:49.250 --> 00:14:51.929
I've got no problems with Spotify or any of those podcasts.
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00:14:51.990 --> 00:14:53.970
I just think we've only been going six months, guys.
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You've got to give us 2021 and then we'll look
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00:14:55.980 --> 00:14:58.259
back at the conspiracy. We'll double check it then.
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00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:03.769
Yeah. Thank you very much for all your emails and Instagrams. Rob,
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00:15:03.809 --> 00:15:04.710
how can I get in touch?
396
00:15:05.009 --> 00:15:08.659
This is how you can get in touch. Email us
397
00:15:08.740 --> 00:15:15.279
hello at lockdownparenting.co.uk or tweet us at lockdownparents or Instagram
398
00:15:15.580 --> 00:15:17.639
lockdown underscore parenting.
399
00:15:17.970 --> 00:15:19.870
And you can also send us stuff, P.O.
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00:15:19.909 --> 00:15:28.289
Box 76748 London E99DW. And can you make sure that
401
00:15:28.309 --> 00:15:32.149
you rate and review our podcast, please? That always helps
402
00:15:32.269 --> 00:15:34.419
with us in the charts and stuff like that. We
403
00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:35.360
really appreciate it.
404
00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:35.860
Do we?
405
00:15:35.899 --> 00:15:38.620
We don't say that enough. We went top three again.
406
00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:39.299
Oh, yeah.
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00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:40.679
We're having a whale of a time.
408
00:15:40.940 --> 00:15:43.179
We were still up there. It's unbelievable.
409
00:15:43.500 --> 00:15:44.519
What a year it's been.
410
00:15:44.860 --> 00:15:45.139
Well, yeah.
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00:15:45.179 --> 00:15:46.659
Thank you so much, guys. Yeah.
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00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:48.200
We're probably going to do an end of year, New
413
00:15:48.220 --> 00:15:50.620
Year's Eve, New Year's Day special. We can talk about
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00:15:50.659 --> 00:15:52.860
all that stuff there. But we're very appreciative. Thank you
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00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:55.570
very much for listening and hope you enjoy this episode.
416
00:15:55.899 --> 00:15:59.289
Right now, time for today's guest. We've wanted to have
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00:15:59.309 --> 00:16:03.070
her on for so long. She's absolutely brilliant. So many
418
00:16:03.110 --> 00:16:06.210
people I've told were so excited she's on. Please welcome. Welcome,
419
00:16:06.409 --> 00:16:07.110
Philippa Parry.
420
00:16:09.929 --> 00:16:11.990
The podcast is basically, we started in lockdown when we
421
00:16:12.029 --> 00:16:16.259
was trapped indoors with our kids, lockdown parenting hell, where
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00:16:16.279 --> 00:16:18.440
basically me and Josh could sort of rant a little
423
00:16:18.460 --> 00:16:21.860
bit about how hard it was parenting in lockdown. And
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00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:23.980
it seemed like we weren't the only ones feeling it.
425
00:16:24.340 --> 00:16:26.139
And it struck a chord with a few people. So
426
00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:28.480
it's sort of become a weird little group of people
427
00:16:28.539 --> 00:16:30.100
all muddling through together now.
428
00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:32.830
And what's it going to be like for your children
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00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:37.029
when they find out that being with them is hell, apparently?
430
00:16:38.990 --> 00:16:42.809
I'm so grateful that you're keeping the psychotherapy profession alive
431
00:16:42.850 --> 00:16:44.289
and well.
432
00:16:44.429 --> 00:16:44.870
Exactly.
433
00:16:44.889 --> 00:16:49.139
How can I help you? Being with me is hell apparently.
434
00:16:49.179 --> 00:16:51.539
What we could do is I'm going to blame Josh
435
00:16:51.580 --> 00:16:53.440
for the title and Josh is going to blame me
436
00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:54.899
for the title of the show.
437
00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:57.220
And in that way, it might, you know, shift the blame.
438
00:16:57.460 --> 00:16:59.679
Yeah, I would say I wouldn't want her to have
439
00:16:59.960 --> 00:17:03.679
heard the initial ones during lockdown. But now my parenting
440
00:17:03.740 --> 00:17:07.440
is so the opposite of it was during lockdown, Philippa.
441
00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:12.599
What have you learnt during lockdown to help you find
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00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:14.519
this parenting relationship easier?
443
00:17:15.390 --> 00:17:18.240
I like that the psychotherapist has turned this into my
444
00:17:18.339 --> 00:17:20.960
therapy session rather than an interview.
445
00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:22.960
You can see it as that if you like.
446
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:28.980
What have I learned during lockdown? Well, not to throw
447
00:17:29.009 --> 00:17:30.950
it back on you, Philippa, but that is when my
448
00:17:31.009 --> 00:17:33.069
wife told me that I needed to read your book.
449
00:17:33.089 --> 00:17:34.089
Uh-huh. Good.
450
00:17:34.329 --> 00:17:38.670
Let me tell you the incident that led to that. Okay.
451
00:17:38.690 --> 00:17:41.859
Which was a 45-minute standoff in the hallway.
452
00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:41.960
Okay.
453
00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:45.140
When my daughter wouldn't put on her coat to go out.
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And I had decided that this was a red line
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00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:55.230
that I couldn't go back on. Yeah.
456
00:17:55.769 --> 00:17:58.029
This is what you're prepared to die for.
457
00:17:58.069 --> 00:18:03.200
LAUGHTER It can really blow up, can't it? A coat
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00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:05.839
in a hallway can really make or break a relationship.
459
00:18:06.579 --> 00:18:09.480
This was a different me, Philippa. So we're not judging here,
460
00:18:09.789 --> 00:18:11.730
but this is what I was, on that day, it
461
00:18:11.930 --> 00:18:15.529
was what I was prepared to die for, which now feels,
462
00:18:15.569 --> 00:18:20.809
to use your words, it now feels absolutely absurd. But
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00:18:21.009 --> 00:18:24.230
I was kind of, if she throws a mood, I can't,
464
00:18:24.450 --> 00:18:26.690
this was how I was feeling on the day. If
465
00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:30.039
she's getting angry about this, I can't just bow to
466
00:18:30.099 --> 00:18:32.230
this and, go along with it.
467
00:18:32.529 --> 00:18:34.890
No, so much better if you escalate it by getting
468
00:18:35.009 --> 00:18:35.849
angry too.
469
00:18:36.089 --> 00:18:41.059
And you're talking to someone who's read the book, Philip,
470
00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:42.059
but this was before the book.
471
00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:43.180
This was before the book.
472
00:18:43.299 --> 00:18:43.980
Okay, that makes sense.
473
00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:45.079
This was before the book.
474
00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:47.000
It'd be a terrible advert for the book if this
475
00:18:47.019 --> 00:18:49.380
was after you read the book.
476
00:18:50.329 --> 00:18:52.109
Luckily, I was sat in a hallway for 45 minutes,
477
00:18:52.130 --> 00:18:53.869
so I had time to read the book at that point.
478
00:18:53.970 --> 00:18:58.349
I know, I So that's when my wife who'd read
479
00:18:58.390 --> 00:18:59.970
the book was like, do you know what would really
480
00:19:00.029 --> 00:19:03.349
help you would be reading this book? Because I think
481
00:19:03.569 --> 00:19:07.099
what I didn't realize is, you know, I mean, this
482
00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:09.779
sounds so weird, but you don't realize that that is
483
00:19:09.799 --> 00:19:12.539
a human. Do you know what I mean? I know
484
00:19:13.220 --> 00:19:16.579
that is a human that is going through emotions like
485
00:19:16.619 --> 00:19:20.019
an adult goes through emotions. You just think that really
486
00:19:20.059 --> 00:19:22.619
trying to fuck you over regarding the coat.
487
00:19:23.779 --> 00:19:26.559
I feel like I've actually just maybe hacked into your
488
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:29.619
actual therapy session now, Josh.
489
00:19:31.220 --> 00:19:34.259
Look, will you just forget I'm a psychotherapist. Forget that.
490
00:19:34.299 --> 00:19:36.549
I'm just a normal, curious person.
491
00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:36.950
Yes.
492
00:19:37.390 --> 00:19:40.670
Now, when your daughter doesn't want to put a coat on, Josh,
493
00:19:41.470 --> 00:19:43.410
how do you cope with that now?
494
00:19:44.710 --> 00:19:47.230
Well, to be honest, I'd probably crumble. I know I
495
00:19:47.289 --> 00:19:50.519
would relate to her feelings about it. and i talked
496
00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:52.519
to her about it and i discuss it with her
497
00:19:53.140 --> 00:19:57.339
and i i wouldn't say that it's that would be
498
00:19:57.380 --> 00:20:01.299
a foolproof method because she's got an insanely high body
499
00:20:01.339 --> 00:20:04.019
temperature that means she never wants to wear a coat.
500
00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:06.539
I learned very early on just to take the coat
501
00:20:06.579 --> 00:20:09.750
with me to put on when she was cold Yes.
502
00:20:10.009 --> 00:20:15.160
No argument about code, no. Life is short, isn't it?
503
00:20:15.829 --> 00:20:17.029
It is, it is.
504
00:20:17.490 --> 00:20:20.549
I mean, we haven't actually, we've just kind of eased
505
00:20:20.589 --> 00:20:23.529
into the podcast. What I've realised now, Philippa, is if
506
00:20:23.630 --> 00:20:26.009
I do want therapy for free, all I need to
507
00:20:26.069 --> 00:20:27.630
do is do it on a podcast and let the
508
00:20:27.670 --> 00:20:29.240
person promote their book during it.
509
00:20:29.970 --> 00:20:32.769
Except for I might start charging for podcasts.
510
00:20:33.549 --> 00:20:35.930
Yeah, I don't want to come out of this with
511
00:20:35.950 --> 00:20:36.789
a loss, Philippa.
512
00:20:36.809 --> 00:20:37.329
No offence.
513
00:20:40.140 --> 00:20:43.420
So your book, the book you wish your parents had
514
00:20:43.460 --> 00:20:45.960
read and your children will be glad that you did.
515
00:20:45.980 --> 00:20:47.259
Bit of a long title.
516
00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:49.890
It is a long title. What do you call it
517
00:20:49.900 --> 00:20:51.220
when you're emailing someone about it?
518
00:20:51.740 --> 00:20:52.309
The book.
519
00:20:52.630 --> 00:20:53.150
The book.
520
00:20:53.549 --> 00:20:55.750
Well, my problem was my dad didn't read a book
521
00:20:56.150 --> 00:20:57.930
till he was 37. So it wouldn't be the book.
522
00:20:57.990 --> 00:20:59.730
It would be a book that they should have read.
523
00:21:02.049 --> 00:21:06.109
So genuinely, I've texted some of my friends that are
524
00:21:06.230 --> 00:21:10.049
parents about the fact we're interviewing you. I might as
525
00:21:10.069 --> 00:21:12.200
well have said to them, we're interviewing John Lennon, the
526
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:16.059
way they responded, Philippa. She is an amazing human being
527
00:21:16.099 --> 00:21:18.460
was one of the responses. And just I love her
528
00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:19.500
in capital letters.
529
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:23.910
God, this is amazing. I'm going to rub this all over. Yeah.
530
00:21:23.950 --> 00:21:26.390
We asked on Instagram for loads of questions. We've been inundated.
531
00:21:26.470 --> 00:21:29.029
So you're proving to be quite a popular book in, Philippa.
532
00:21:29.049 --> 00:21:30.769
So no pressure, but we're very excited to.
533
00:21:30.730 --> 00:21:31.190
Have you on.
534
00:21:31.230 --> 00:21:33.319
OK, let's rock it then.
535
00:21:33.539 --> 00:21:35.480
What's your set up then? What's your set up at home?
536
00:21:36.259 --> 00:21:39.809
My setup at home is just me and my husband
537
00:21:40.130 --> 00:21:43.569
looking at each other across the sofa thinking, why did
538
00:21:43.589 --> 00:21:48.990
she leave home so young? She's only 28. What did
539
00:21:49.029 --> 00:21:52.069
we do wrong? Why doesn't she want to live with us?
540
00:21:53.950 --> 00:21:55.049
We have one kid.
541
00:21:55.730 --> 00:21:57.549
And so she's grown up and moved out. Did she
542
00:21:57.589 --> 00:21:59.910
move out at 28 or did she move out younger?
543
00:21:59.930 --> 00:22:01.990
No, she moved out at 21.
544
00:22:01.990 --> 00:22:03.970
Yeah, I think that's quite a good age. Or would
545
00:22:03.990 --> 00:22:05.430
you rather she stayed longer?
546
00:22:06.150 --> 00:22:08.779
I'd rather that she lived with me forever and became
547
00:22:08.819 --> 00:22:13.420
my carer. Yeah, I'd like that.
548
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:15.579
And with your book, this book's really sort of resonated
549
00:22:15.619 --> 00:22:18.200
with parents and stuff. And it's like, you know, in
550
00:22:18.220 --> 00:22:19.779
sort of obviously you need to read the whole book,
551
00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:21.680
but breaking it down, it's more like engaging with your
552
00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:23.819
child on a human emotional level of why they're feeling
553
00:22:23.839 --> 00:22:25.549
like that rather than just like, oh, stop annoying me.
554
00:22:25.579 --> 00:22:27.940
I'm trying to get on with my life. Obviously, I'm
555
00:22:27.980 --> 00:22:31.039
really breaking this down into layman's terms. But would you
556
00:22:31.140 --> 00:22:34.000
say that you're better at telling people how to implement
557
00:22:34.019 --> 00:22:37.339
that than you are implementing it yourself? Or did you
558
00:22:37.380 --> 00:22:39.829
really try and approach parenting like that as you were
559
00:22:39.849 --> 00:22:40.130
doing it?
560
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:43.940
I lived the book. I've been writing the book for
561
00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:49.670
the last 60 years. Because, you know, when my parents started,
562
00:22:50.089 --> 00:22:53.329
you know, not taking my feelings into consideration and then
563
00:22:53.789 --> 00:22:58.089
being a psychotherapist for a long time. you get to
564
00:22:58.130 --> 00:23:01.170
realize that the adults are actually still the children, the
565
00:23:01.250 --> 00:23:03.839
adults that you have as your patients, your clients. So
566
00:23:03.859 --> 00:23:07.819
they're still the children. And I listened to them about
567
00:23:07.859 --> 00:23:10.460
what it was like for them growing up. And it's
568
00:23:10.539 --> 00:23:14.920
not like, uh, they had terrible toxic parents or anything.
569
00:23:15.329 --> 00:23:18.890
They just had parents that didn't realize, uh, like Josh
570
00:23:18.910 --> 00:23:22.430
said earlier on that what, This is a human, not
571
00:23:22.509 --> 00:23:26.970
an it. This is a person to have a relationship with.
572
00:23:27.069 --> 00:23:31.430
From a baby to an adult, they are still a person.
573
00:23:31.779 --> 00:23:34.859
And I just wanted to get that across, so I
574
00:23:34.900 --> 00:23:35.900
wrote a book about it.
575
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:38.799
Was there a moment where that clicked for you? Or
576
00:23:38.980 --> 00:23:41.079
like you say, was it always there from when you
577
00:23:41.099 --> 00:23:44.519
was little? Did you go, ah, this is why that's happening?
578
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:48.400
Or was it a slow process? It was always there.
579
00:23:48.420 --> 00:23:50.579
I think it was there from about the age of seven.
580
00:23:51.819 --> 00:23:54.720
But of course, I had to train as a psychotherapist,
581
00:23:54.809 --> 00:23:58.430
practice as the psychotherapist before I was ready to write it.
582
00:23:58.690 --> 00:24:00.670
In the book, you talk a lot about what you
583
00:24:00.710 --> 00:24:04.069
call rupture and repair. One of the things I was
584
00:24:04.109 --> 00:24:06.539
worried about reading it is I think that I'd already
585
00:24:06.619 --> 00:24:10.259
kind of messed up too much. Do you know what
586
00:24:10.380 --> 00:24:12.660
I mean? I was thinking like, oh God, this is
587
00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:13.519
going to tell me that.
588
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:15.720
You're like finding Christianity in prison.
589
00:24:20.109 --> 00:24:22.450
But that's not something people should worry about, is it?
590
00:24:22.730 --> 00:24:26.829
No, it's never too late because a relationship is an
591
00:24:27.049 --> 00:24:31.559
ongoing thing. And we tend to think of, if you
592
00:24:31.579 --> 00:24:35.470
think of parenting as a task rather than a relationship,
593
00:24:35.809 --> 00:24:38.069
then you think in terms of I've blown it or
594
00:24:38.150 --> 00:24:40.859
I've nailed it. And I don't think that's particularly helpful
595
00:24:41.230 --> 00:24:45.079
because parenting is a relationship foremost. I know there are
596
00:24:45.380 --> 00:24:48.619
chores attached, but it's important to think of your child first.
597
00:24:48.940 --> 00:24:50.680
as a person and not a chore. Yeah.
598
00:24:51.460 --> 00:24:54.289
Because I think people make that mistake of, you want
599
00:24:54.309 --> 00:24:55.890
your kids to be happy. I want my kids to
600
00:24:55.910 --> 00:24:57.809
be happy. And then my mum always used to say, oh,
601
00:24:57.809 --> 00:25:00.009
you're only as happy as your unhappiest child, which is
602
00:25:00.349 --> 00:25:02.430
probably one of the bleakest things you can hear from
603
00:25:02.450 --> 00:25:03.480
your own mother, which I'm.
604
00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:04.720
Sure you've got a lot to say about.
605
00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:10.019
That's quite a pressure on you to always be happy. Yeah,
606
00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:10.460
would you.
607
00:25:10.380 --> 00:25:11.079
Explain my life?
608
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:14.960
You've got that pressure always.
609
00:25:14.599 --> 00:25:15.460
To be happy.
610
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:16.619
Yeah, I don't want to be the one letting down
611
00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:18.880
the side, looking at my brothers going, come on, guys.
612
00:25:19.019 --> 00:25:21.700
But if you've got that pressure always to be happy,
613
00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:26.769
you can feel unacceptable when you've got other moods like
614
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:33.230
despair or sadness or anger. And then because you're not
615
00:25:33.289 --> 00:25:37.190
allowed to be despairing or angry, you don't learn how
616
00:25:37.269 --> 00:25:40.710
to manage those feelings because you're not allowed to have them.
617
00:25:41.049 --> 00:25:44.490
So they tend to get repressed and then more work
618
00:25:44.509 --> 00:25:47.240
for therapists later on as we learn how to cope
619
00:25:47.259 --> 00:25:52.940
with these feelings. So my idea is that parents learn
620
00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:57.700
to hold and contain and accept every single feeling that
621
00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:04.190
a child might have, which paradoxically increases their capacity for happiness.
622
00:26:04.859 --> 00:26:07.359
Yes, because they can cope with it and then bounce back,
623
00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:08.400
as it were.
624
00:26:08.440 --> 00:26:13.099
Because if you think it's okay to be sad, you
625
00:26:13.119 --> 00:26:16.309
can work through your sadness, then you can have a laugh.
626
00:26:16.970 --> 00:26:19.740
But if it's not okay... to be sad you tend
627
00:26:19.769 --> 00:26:21.549
to hold on to it and not move on in
628
00:26:21.589 --> 00:26:22.150
the same.
629
00:26:21.990 --> 00:26:24.750
Way sometimes I find to turn into my therapy session
630
00:26:24.789 --> 00:26:27.269
where if you're if you're delivered some sort of news
631
00:26:27.329 --> 00:26:31.349
it's quite like planning permission or something or something annoying
632
00:26:31.369 --> 00:26:33.359
little thing like that where you want something to happen
633
00:26:33.380 --> 00:26:34.799
then a letter comes through go no you can't do
634
00:26:34.839 --> 00:26:36.799
that and that sort of panic and anxiety comes in
635
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:38.759
as it would because you go oh we can't do
636
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:41.180
a thing we want to do and I think sometimes
637
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:43.500
you rather than going okay well that's you know and
638
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:46.789
then have the emotion of being frustrated, disappointed, a little
639
00:26:46.809 --> 00:26:48.589
bit annoyed, you should be able to sit on that
640
00:26:48.609 --> 00:26:50.670
emotion and let it breathe rather than going like repress
641
00:26:50.710 --> 00:26:52.710
it and go, no, I'll sort this out. And I'm
642
00:26:52.750 --> 00:26:55.990
trying to, you don't always have to react upon something
643
00:26:56.029 --> 00:26:57.690
to change what's going to happen.
644
00:26:57.789 --> 00:26:58.720
You can sort of sit with it.
645
00:26:59.069 --> 00:27:01.970
If you get bad news, like you don't get your
646
00:27:01.990 --> 00:27:05.099
planning permission or your dog dies or something terrible like that,
647
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:08.720
it's appropriate to be sad. Yes.
648
00:27:09.319 --> 00:27:10.279
That is the right emotion.
649
00:27:10.579 --> 00:27:13.779
Yeah, to be sad for the dog or angry for
650
00:27:13.819 --> 00:27:17.240
the planning permission. After all, you paid a planning consultant
651
00:27:17.259 --> 00:27:18.000
for God's sake.
652
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:19.339
Yeah, exactly.
653
00:27:19.420 --> 00:27:22.480
Have you been refused planning permission, Rob?
654
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:23.440
No, I haven't.
655
00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:25.279
But I was literally looking out the window and I
656
00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:29.299
saw an extension. That's why I said planning permission. But yeah,
657
00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:30.700
I think that's the thing about trying to make your
658
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:32.859
kids happy all the time. And it's like, you know,
659
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:34.980
going to work. Like I saw that in the new
660
00:27:35.019 --> 00:27:37.119
chapter in the paperback about if you're going to work,
661
00:27:37.609 --> 00:27:40.009
and the kids are upset that you're going to work,
662
00:27:40.430 --> 00:27:43.859
you feel guilty that they're sad, but then it's that
663
00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:45.559
kind of thing where they will have to miss people
664
00:27:45.579 --> 00:27:47.750
now and again. as they grow up and stuff. And
665
00:27:47.789 --> 00:27:49.210
I always try and say, if I'm going to work,
666
00:27:49.289 --> 00:27:51.369
I'll say, why are you going to work? It's like, well, one,
667
00:27:51.450 --> 00:27:53.130
you need to, you need money to sort of live.
668
00:27:53.150 --> 00:27:54.170
And also I enjoy it.
669
00:27:54.390 --> 00:27:55.009
I like work.
670
00:27:55.390 --> 00:27:58.119
I don't work to be this big, grey, horrible thing
671
00:27:58.150 --> 00:28:00.839
of they steal your dad and it's awful. I go, look, well,
672
00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:02.339
I need to go so we can go on holiday,
673
00:28:02.380 --> 00:28:05.359
but also I really enjoy it. And if you're lucky,
674
00:28:05.380 --> 00:28:07.049
you can have a job where you enjoy to go to.
675
00:28:07.059 --> 00:28:09.299
And I think rather than making it like a negative place,
676
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:11.079
it's sort of this positive. And you can.
677
00:28:11.019 --> 00:28:14.279
Also say, yeah, of course you're sad I'm going. I'm
678
00:28:14.339 --> 00:28:16.940
very flattered that you think give me in those terms
679
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:19.920
or you know yeah yeah you're going to be sad
680
00:28:19.980 --> 00:28:23.599
for a while but um mummy I notice has got
681
00:28:23.640 --> 00:28:27.069
the leg out so you're going to be okay I
682
00:28:27.109 --> 00:28:30.750
know you're sad at the moment and that's that's fine.
683
00:28:30.609 --> 00:28:32.710
That's literally work though now it's just going upstairs to
684
00:28:32.730 --> 00:28:34.849
a podcast it's not the same you know nine to
685
00:28:34.869 --> 00:28:37.470
five commute in I think that's even I.
686
00:28:37.450 --> 00:28:41.349
Think that's harder for kids when you're in the house
687
00:28:41.789 --> 00:28:44.650
and you're not playing with them or being with them
688
00:28:45.009 --> 00:28:48.230
because you're doing your Zoom or whatever it is. And
689
00:28:48.670 --> 00:28:53.529
I think that's not so easy for the kid to
690
00:28:53.589 --> 00:28:57.359
understand when you go out. I had the sort of
691
00:28:57.420 --> 00:29:00.000
very childish feeling at the beginning of the first lockdown
692
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.500
when my daughter did my shopping for me, left it
693
00:29:03.579 --> 00:29:07.740
on the step, rang the bell and then stood back
694
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:11.390
from the step as though we both had leprosy. And
695
00:29:11.829 --> 00:29:13.710
I said, won't you come in? And she said, mum,
696
00:29:13.910 --> 00:29:15.690
you know, I can't come in. It's not the rules,
697
00:29:15.730 --> 00:29:17.630
you know, sort of thing. So I went, oh, thank
698
00:29:17.650 --> 00:29:19.519
you for the shopping and took it in. And then
699
00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:23.279
I burst into tears because I knew what the rules were.
700
00:29:23.299 --> 00:29:27.799
I knew cognitively that she couldn't come in, but my
701
00:29:27.859 --> 00:29:32.670
body didn't understand. Now I'm 63. So really I should
702
00:29:32.710 --> 00:29:36.210
have got over this by now. But imagine if you're
703
00:29:36.369 --> 00:29:39.349
seven or something and you say, I'm going to go
704
00:29:39.390 --> 00:29:41.799
and work in the sports. room, you can't come in.
705
00:29:41.819 --> 00:29:45.140
I think it will feel a bit like you might
706
00:29:45.220 --> 00:29:48.039
understand that you've got to do a podcast, but I
707
00:29:48.099 --> 00:29:50.940
think your body cannot catch up with that. There's a
708
00:29:50.980 --> 00:29:55.640
sort of mind-body dissonance. And I think we all feel
709
00:29:55.720 --> 00:29:59.200
it with these weird rules that our bodies aren't used to.
710
00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:02.900
And so expect more crying is what I'm saying.
711
00:30:04.809 --> 00:30:09.069
We had quite an interesting kind of experience recently where
712
00:30:09.130 --> 00:30:11.980
we got rid of the dummy with my daughter. Her
713
00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:13.519
teeth were being pushed forward by it.
714
00:30:13.789 --> 00:30:15.910
They're only the milk teeth.
715
00:30:16.150 --> 00:30:18.170
Anyway, do you know what?
716
00:30:18.210 --> 00:30:19.690
I like this attitude, Philippa.
717
00:30:19.849 --> 00:30:23.170
I'm the one who's bloody well enacting the book and
718
00:30:23.210 --> 00:30:24.960
Rob's the one who's coming across as the great parent.
719
00:30:24.980 --> 00:30:26.880
I don't know how this has happened. This is unbelievable.
720
00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:28.640
I've got a theory about why.
721
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:32.240
I think there's a class difference sometimes in parenting where
722
00:30:32.339 --> 00:30:35.099
when you're a bit more middle class or, you know,
723
00:30:35.420 --> 00:30:37.970
I've become middle class now through, my life but like
724
00:30:38.069 --> 00:30:40.190
I've still got them sort of semi-working class values where
725
00:30:40.390 --> 00:30:42.599
when you're middle class you do have more opportunities to
726
00:30:42.630 --> 00:30:44.720
be at home so like sometimes work can be a
727
00:30:44.779 --> 00:30:47.259
choice where when you're working class it is like you
728
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:48.680
have to go to work because you need that money
729
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:51.299
so there's no that allowance to fill that guilt to
730
00:30:51.339 --> 00:30:53.240
go oh actually I don't really need to go for
731
00:30:53.259 --> 00:30:55.160
this meeting I could get my assistant to go or
732
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:57.880
and then whereas if you are like going to drive
733
00:30:57.900 --> 00:30:59.980
a taxi you're like I've got to drive that taxi
734
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:01.630
because I get that money today that we need to
735
00:31:01.640 --> 00:31:03.950
pay the bill so I do think sometimes with that
736
00:31:04.049 --> 00:31:06.470
thing of like being a bit harsher towards your kids
737
00:31:06.509 --> 00:31:08.420
in a way of going, well, no, I've got to go.
738
00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:10.559
You haven't got much choice in it. But I don't
739
00:31:10.579 --> 00:31:11.940
know if that plays a part, Philippa.
740
00:31:12.109 --> 00:31:14.930
Well, the thing is about that is that we all
741
00:31:15.069 --> 00:31:18.490
have limits and we have boundaries. Like the limit in
742
00:31:18.529 --> 00:31:20.109
that case is, no, I've got to go and drive
743
00:31:20.150 --> 00:31:22.569
my taxi. Though personally, I'd get my assistant to drive
744
00:31:22.609 --> 00:31:27.349
the taxi. But, you know, whatever. You have to go
745
00:31:27.369 --> 00:31:31.660
and drive the taxi. But sometimes you also have to
746
00:31:31.700 --> 00:31:34.440
go and do something because it's fun, not because you
747
00:31:34.500 --> 00:31:37.500
can't do it. It's the same thing. You have to
748
00:31:37.539 --> 00:31:40.849
put down a boundary before you reach your limit. The
749
00:31:40.890 --> 00:31:44.190
taxi driver, the limit is, we will starve unless I
750
00:31:44.230 --> 00:31:48.069
go out to work. For you, it might be, I
751
00:31:48.109 --> 00:31:51.849
will implode unless I make a podcast with Josh because
752
00:31:51.930 --> 00:31:53.490
that's fun and I need.
753
00:31:53.309 --> 00:31:53.769
To do it.
754
00:31:53.990 --> 00:31:57.900
You've still got the limit, so you put the boundary down. Say,
755
00:31:58.420 --> 00:32:01.000
I'm sorry you're unhappy and I'm going to go and
756
00:32:01.059 --> 00:32:05.160
do this thing. I'm not about being lax. I'm about
757
00:32:05.730 --> 00:32:08.230
Setting your boundary, but it's really important when you set
758
00:32:08.269 --> 00:32:11.869
your boundary that you don't make up a reason, that
759
00:32:11.890 --> 00:32:14.210
you tell the truth and you tell the truth from
760
00:32:14.269 --> 00:32:18.099
an I perspective. Like, I really like you saying, I
761
00:32:18.140 --> 00:32:20.980
go to work because it's fun. And I'm sorry if
762
00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:24.220
you don't like it, but I like enjoying myself. Rather than,
763
00:32:24.619 --> 00:32:26.740
I go to work so you can have some lovely
764
00:32:26.859 --> 00:32:29.599
clothes and toys. You know, that is sort of like,
765
00:32:29.619 --> 00:32:32.269
you know, don't pull the wool over their eyes like that.
766
00:32:32.289 --> 00:32:34.890
Yeah, I don't fucking want this coat on anyway. I'm
767
00:32:34.930 --> 00:32:35.269
too hot.
768
00:32:36.380 --> 00:32:39.529
It's gaslighting, isn't it? It's sort of like trying to
769
00:32:39.650 --> 00:32:42.549
guilt trip them into letting you go to work. No,
770
00:32:42.589 --> 00:32:46.410
they're going to have feelings about it. And that is fine. Likewise,
771
00:32:46.450 --> 00:32:49.140
with Josh and his dummy, as long as he doesn't say,
772
00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:53.079
you've got to lose the dummy because your teeth are
773
00:32:53.099 --> 00:32:56.259
going to go. As long as you say, I'm afraid
774
00:32:56.279 --> 00:32:59.069
you have to take the dummy. from you because otherwise
775
00:32:59.089 --> 00:33:02.880
I'm really worried about my middle class credentials.
776
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:07.440
I can't go to Victoria Park with you in the
777
00:33:07.480 --> 00:33:09.200
dummy because.
778
00:33:08.660 --> 00:33:10.740
I can't go to Victoria Park with you in the
779
00:33:11.009 --> 00:33:17.009
dummy in case Victoria and David come by with little
780
00:33:17.049 --> 00:33:21.150
baby Barbara who hasn't had a dummy for ages, you know,
781
00:33:21.490 --> 00:33:24.789
it's going to be competitive parenting and you know, you can't,
782
00:33:25.470 --> 00:33:29.230
I don't want to look like a fool. So because
783
00:33:29.309 --> 00:33:32.609
I am a fool, I'm taking away your dummy. If
784
00:33:32.670 --> 00:33:35.630
you don't pretend it's for her sake, because she knows
785
00:33:35.670 --> 00:33:38.170
she loves her dummy and you say it's for my sake,
786
00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:42.039
it's because I can't stand the dummy anymore. Then I
787
00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:45.059
think it's, it's fair. Then she knows you're the crazy
788
00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:46.259
one and that's good.
789
00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:49.039
I think she's fully aware of that. She worked that
790
00:33:49.099 --> 00:33:51.700
out the day I had a 45-minute standoff over a coat.
791
00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:53.619
She's very clear on that.
792
00:33:53.779 --> 00:33:55.980
You used a dummy fairy and that she's a big
793
00:33:56.000 --> 00:33:57.279
girl now type of technique.
794
00:33:57.319 --> 00:34:01.240
Well, no, no, I didn't. I changed to... This was
795
00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:03.940
what I brought up. I enacted what I would describe
796
00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:07.589
as some Philippa Perry-style parenting, and I was very pleased
797
00:34:07.609 --> 00:34:07.890
with myself.
798
00:34:07.990 --> 00:34:09.969
Tell me what that is, Josh. So.
799
00:34:10.170 --> 00:34:10.389
So.
800
00:34:12.170 --> 00:34:13.349
We initially- This.
801
00:34:13.309 --> 00:34:14.730
Is such a teacher's pet.
802
00:34:14.750 --> 00:34:16.610
I feel like we're- I know, but I'm not getting
803
00:34:16.670 --> 00:34:20.409
anywhere with it, Rob. I'm not getting anywhere. I've done,
804
00:34:20.510 --> 00:34:22.130
I've read the book and this is my exam and
805
00:34:22.190 --> 00:34:24.650
now I'm failing my exam and I can't believe it, Rob.
806
00:34:24.670 --> 00:34:27.440
Calm down. Breathe. Tell me all about it.
807
00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:28.989
Breathe. Take a moment, Josh.
808
00:34:29.090 --> 00:34:30.639
I can't do it. I'm just going to leave the
809
00:34:30.659 --> 00:34:32.280
Zoom call. It's too much pressure.
810
00:34:33.099 --> 00:34:35.519
Oh.
811
00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:38.539
She's obsessed with being a big girl. And if you
812
00:34:38.559 --> 00:34:40.739
call her small, she doesn't like it, right? And so-
813
00:34:41.429 --> 00:34:43.829
With the dummy thing, we'd be like, oh, you're doing,
814
00:34:43.849 --> 00:34:46.050
you know, she was doing very well. And, you know,
815
00:34:46.090 --> 00:34:48.530
you're like, you're a big girl. You're doing so well,
816
00:34:48.670 --> 00:34:52.349
all that. And actually what happened then was she woke
817
00:34:52.429 --> 00:34:55.469
up in the night without it at 4 a.m. We
818
00:34:55.510 --> 00:34:57.489
went into her and she was upset. And we were like,
819
00:34:57.510 --> 00:35:00.130
why are you upset? And she said, I can't tell you.
820
00:35:00.449 --> 00:35:02.849
And we were like, is it because of the dummy?
821
00:35:02.889 --> 00:35:06.010
And we realized we hadn't engaged with the emotion that
822
00:35:06.050 --> 00:35:09.920
she's missing this dummy. So we then- engaged with it
823
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:12.559
and we were like, we know it's tough, you know,
824
00:35:12.840 --> 00:35:16.619
we've been through this ourselves, like her mum remembers the
825
00:35:16.659 --> 00:35:22.199
experience herself. And yeah, so you'll probably need therapy for
826
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:22.719
her as well.
827
00:35:22.780 --> 00:35:23.260
Get a.
828
00:35:24.739 --> 00:35:25.360
Family rate.
829
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:28.039
Yeah, we'll get a family rate. But once we engaged
830
00:35:28.059 --> 00:35:30.900
with her about it and engaged with the sadness of it,
831
00:35:31.659 --> 00:35:33.980
it just totally opened up and it was a completely
832
00:35:34.019 --> 00:35:35.030
different experience.
833
00:35:35.820 --> 00:35:36.280
Oh, yeah.
834
00:35:36.639 --> 00:35:39.159
So... I was just using that as an example, but
835
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:39.920
I'm not going to lie.
836
00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:41.699
All he wanted you to go, well done, Josh.
837
00:35:41.739 --> 00:35:44.380
But now, I'm not going to lie. I'm going to
838
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:46.519
give her the dummy back because I've been shamed into
839
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:46.960
it by you.
840
00:35:47.300 --> 00:35:50.980
No, don't do that. You don't want her to have it.
841
00:35:51.099 --> 00:35:54.199
You've put down your boundary and you've done the right
842
00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:57.820
thing of comforting her in her grief of doing without it.
843
00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:00.610
So I think you're doing just fine.
844
00:36:00.730 --> 00:36:02.750
That's all he wanted, Philippa. Thank you.
845
00:36:04.130 --> 00:36:07.389
She's allowed to have her sad feelings about it. And
846
00:36:07.409 --> 00:36:09.750
there was things she couldn't tell you about because she
847
00:36:09.949 --> 00:36:11.869
felt she had to be a certain way to get
848
00:36:11.909 --> 00:36:15.090
your approval. And you've gone through that. She can be
849
00:36:15.170 --> 00:36:18.079
anything she likes and you're still going to approve of her.
850
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:20.360
Now, Philippa, do you find that sometimes, though, that the
851
00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:23.380
danger is people overcompensate and go too far the other way?
852
00:36:23.500 --> 00:36:26.139
If their parents parented in a certain way, they sort
853
00:36:26.159 --> 00:36:28.380
of just immediately do the opposite in a sort of
854
00:36:28.420 --> 00:36:29.099
act of rebellion.
855
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:31.880
Yeah. What I think you're talking about is that if
856
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:35.659
you're brought up very strict... Do you go too far
857
00:36:35.860 --> 00:36:39.340
and go lax? And this does happen. And what tends
858
00:36:39.389 --> 00:36:42.449
to happen with parents who are reluctant to put down
859
00:36:42.510 --> 00:36:45.889
any boundaries at all is that, of course, they reach
860
00:36:45.929 --> 00:36:50.449
their limit and then lose it. It's very sad. So
861
00:36:51.190 --> 00:36:54.789
we've all got buttons and we're all capable of getting
862
00:36:54.829 --> 00:36:58.469
them pushed. So I think every parent should put down
863
00:36:58.510 --> 00:37:02.940
a boundary before they're in danger of having these buttons pushed.
864
00:37:03.469 --> 00:37:05.340
And I'm not saying where that should be.
865
00:37:05.679 --> 00:37:07.750
Probably coat, isn't it? That's where the boundary.
866
00:37:07.469 --> 00:37:13.130
Should be, isn't it? I'm quite short-tempered. So when my kid,
867
00:37:13.269 --> 00:37:17.869
poor kid, said, I want my sauce and my spaghetti separate,
868
00:37:17.969 --> 00:37:20.269
I said, oh, that's tough because I made a pasta
869
00:37:20.309 --> 00:37:22.630
bake and it's all in one go. And she said, well,
870
00:37:22.650 --> 00:37:24.769
I'm not eating it. I go, oh, dear, you're going
871
00:37:24.829 --> 00:37:28.630
to be quite hungry later, but OK. And that's what
872
00:37:28.650 --> 00:37:31.449
I was like. And soon enough, she'd eat the sauce
873
00:37:31.489 --> 00:37:34.030
and the pasta. I mean, I was quite sympathetic about it,
874
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:37.179
but I cannot be asked to cook separate meals for everyone.
875
00:37:37.340 --> 00:37:40.550
I'm sorry. That is my limit. So the boundary I
876
00:37:40.570 --> 00:37:43.929
put down is like, it's pasta bake or nothing. I'm sorry.
877
00:37:44.500 --> 00:37:47.099
Yeah, our daughter was very funny with what she ate,
878
00:37:47.139 --> 00:37:49.340
but we never made it into a big thing. It
879
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:51.340
was like, okay, well, that's dinner. You either have it
880
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:53.260
or you don't. And then eventually she did start eating bits.
881
00:37:53.300 --> 00:37:55.119
And then when she went to school, she has like
882
00:37:55.159 --> 00:37:57.820
school dinners. She's only five, but has school dinners at lunchtime.
883
00:37:58.199 --> 00:37:59.380
And then she'd come home the other day and she's
884
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:01.059
been eating lamb. And she was like, oh, do you
885
00:38:01.090 --> 00:38:04.030
know what? Sausages are lovely with potatoes and breads because
886
00:38:04.219 --> 00:38:05.989
all her friends are eating it. So it was more
887
00:38:06.210 --> 00:38:08.489
almost like a power play of not wanting to eat.
888
00:38:08.530 --> 00:38:10.550
And then actually she was getting on with it fine.
889
00:38:10.590 --> 00:38:12.309
But we didn't force her to do it. It was like, well,
890
00:38:12.329 --> 00:38:13.949
that's there. You either have it or you don't.
891
00:38:14.190 --> 00:38:19.130
It's quite embarrassing when your kid goes to somebody else's house, say,
892
00:38:19.389 --> 00:38:22.630
and I was picking up Flo from a play date
893
00:38:22.769 --> 00:38:25.360
once and I said, everything OK? You know, when I
894
00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:27.780
picked her up, she said, when I asked her if
895
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:33.760
she wanted broccoli, she replied, can I just have it blanched, please?
896
00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:36.199
Well, that happened.
897
00:38:36.219 --> 00:38:39.389
It's a bit similar, but we've got a fairly decent
898
00:38:39.409 --> 00:38:42.170
sized garden, nothing too spectacular. But my mum and dad's house,
899
00:38:42.530 --> 00:38:46.230
Very small. The garden is like tiny, really small, really
900
00:38:46.269 --> 00:38:48.309
small garden. Quite similar to one I grew up in.
901
00:38:48.789 --> 00:38:50.409
And my mum said to her, do you want to
902
00:38:50.429 --> 00:38:52.090
go into the garden? And then they went and stood
903
00:38:52.110 --> 00:38:54.949
in the garden. And then my daughter said, Nanny, where's
904
00:38:54.969 --> 00:38:59.010
the garden? And my mum was like, it's here, you
905
00:38:59.050 --> 00:39:02.010
little bitch. This is all we've got. So she said
906
00:39:02.030 --> 00:39:03.789
she's going to take her over the park next time
907
00:39:03.829 --> 00:39:05.469
and go, this is my garden, actually.
908
00:39:05.769 --> 00:39:07.409
I got confused. This is the garden.
909
00:39:11.789 --> 00:39:16.340
We got some questions from listeners and from fans, Philip.
910
00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:19.239
But before that, I just wanted to do a quick
911
00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:24.420
quiz question for Rob based on your book, which is
912
00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:27.780
you talk about the three types, I mean, I'm showing
913
00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:29.719
myself in such a bad light here. Once again, it's
914
00:39:29.739 --> 00:39:31.780
going to show me in a bad light. You talk
915
00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:33.059
about the three types.
916
00:39:32.820 --> 00:39:35.739
Of- Self-consciousness is something we're going to work on. Yeah.
917
00:39:36.019 --> 00:39:39.070
He's got no, he doesn't back himself enough, does he, Philippa?
918
00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:40.550
You know what I mean? He's too modest.
919
00:39:40.610 --> 00:39:43.409
He's trying to mock himself before we get in there,
920
00:39:43.469 --> 00:39:43.769
I think.
921
00:39:43.989 --> 00:39:45.449
And then you're prejudging the question.
922
00:39:46.090 --> 00:39:48.929
Mocking, that's what it is. Sorry, Josh, carry on.
923
00:39:49.940 --> 00:39:52.119
Be aware, I can hear you both when you're having
924
00:39:52.159 --> 00:39:53.519
a conversation without me.
925
00:39:54.039 --> 00:39:57.820
It feels really powerful double teaming someone with a psychotherapist.
926
00:39:57.880 --> 00:39:59.559
I've never felt so secure in an argument.
927
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:01.579
I'll get you later, Rob.
928
00:40:01.739 --> 00:40:02.139
I know.
929
00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:03.539
There's a lot going on here.
930
00:40:03.559 --> 00:40:07.260
There's a lot happening here. So you talk about the
931
00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:12.639
three types of arguing that parents can do between themselves.
932
00:40:13.050 --> 00:40:16.250
And I wanted Rob to guess which one I read
933
00:40:16.289 --> 00:40:18.789
and went, oh my God, that is exactly what I do.
934
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:23.679
okay good fun okay the three arguing styles so the
935
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:27.400
first one you call look squirrel.
936
00:40:27.159 --> 00:40:31.230
Yes this is the distracting arguing style so when your
937
00:40:31.449 --> 00:40:34.070
wife comes in and goes christ you've been here all
938
00:40:34.110 --> 00:40:36.289
day and you haven't done the washing up you go
939
00:40:36.809 --> 00:40:41.010
look there's a squirrel rather than you know addressing the
940
00:40:41.190 --> 00:40:44.360
um The issue, yeah. The issue. We call that the
941
00:40:44.429 --> 00:40:49.010
distractor style, or look squirrel, indeed. Yeah, I love that style.
942
00:40:49.030 --> 00:40:51.630
That's my favourite. Next.
943
00:40:52.050 --> 00:40:54.199
There is the being a martyr.
944
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:57.539
Yeah, being a martyr, sort of like, oh, I see
945
00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:00.940
you haven't done the washing up. Oh, well, I'll do it,
946
00:41:00.960 --> 00:41:01.840
I suppose.
947
00:41:03.139 --> 00:41:05.090
And then the third one, I don't know if you've
948
00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:07.090
given it a title, but if you could describe the
949
00:41:07.130 --> 00:41:07.650
third one.
950
00:41:08.349 --> 00:41:11.030
Well, the other one is when you go, you filthy pig,
951
00:41:11.050 --> 00:41:13.610
you just go straight into attack mode. So you come in,
952
00:41:14.010 --> 00:41:17.130
the washing up hasn't been done. You filthy pig, you're disgusting.
953
00:41:17.469 --> 00:41:21.809
You repulse me with your stuck on cereal on this bowl.
954
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:24.760
So I can zoom in with my wife at the moment.
955
00:41:24.780 --> 00:41:26.219
She's very much in that category.
956
00:41:28.340 --> 00:41:31.360
Would you like to both guess which of those I
957
00:41:31.420 --> 00:41:34.400
felt I was? And it was a very confronting paragraph
958
00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:34.900
to read.
959
00:41:35.699 --> 00:41:38.469
I don't. I know you very well, Josh. I would
960
00:41:38.489 --> 00:41:41.380
be hesitant to put you in a little box there.
961
00:41:41.780 --> 00:41:45.199
Well, I know Josh doesn't like conflict, but I also
962
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:46.880
know he has very strong opinions on stuff.
963
00:41:47.260 --> 00:41:49.179
So I don't think you'd be full distraction.
964
00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:50.719
I think you might be a bit martyry and you're
965
00:41:50.739 --> 00:41:52.510
sort of a little bit passive aggressive with it.
966
00:41:52.539 --> 00:41:54.579
So you've made your point, but not forcefully.
967
00:41:55.059 --> 00:41:57.599
Do you know what? You are correct. I realised during
968
00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:00.610
lockdown I'd become the full martyr argument.
969
00:42:00.869 --> 00:42:02.630
Oh, that's the most.
970
00:42:02.650 --> 00:42:05.239
I find that the worst, because at least the full-on one,
971
00:42:05.250 --> 00:42:07.510
you know where you stand. In my house, it's like,
972
00:42:07.630 --> 00:42:09.769
fucking hell, Lou, what have you done to that bathroom?
973
00:42:11.550 --> 00:42:13.590
I haven't done the washing up since. I haven't martyred
974
00:42:13.610 --> 00:42:14.949
myself once since I read that.
975
00:42:15.250 --> 00:42:16.489
Oh, oh, oh.
976
00:42:18.340 --> 00:42:20.429
No, that was something that really spoke to me.
977
00:42:20.440 --> 00:42:24.579
You're full on cooperation and compromise now, aren't you? Yes, yes.
978
00:42:25.150 --> 00:42:27.170
Haven't had an argument since. I would love to be
979
00:42:27.210 --> 00:42:28.809
able to say that, but it's not true.
980
00:42:28.969 --> 00:42:31.170
Sometimes, like you say, you need to set boundaries and
981
00:42:31.190 --> 00:42:32.909
this is what we do. And then you decide on
982
00:42:32.949 --> 00:42:36.329
those boundaries and then talk your child through the sort
983
00:42:36.349 --> 00:42:38.449
of reason. Don't have to justify it, but explain why
984
00:42:38.469 --> 00:42:39.429
that's happening.
985
00:42:40.570 --> 00:42:43.250
The reason you talk your child through, though, it's really
986
00:42:43.289 --> 00:42:45.070
important that that is an I statement.
987
00:42:45.349 --> 00:42:45.610
Yes.
988
00:42:46.699 --> 00:42:49.659
It's not don't run into the road. It's dangerous. It's
989
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:52.179
don't run into the road because it terrifies me.
990
00:42:52.500 --> 00:42:52.840
Yes.
991
00:42:53.159 --> 00:42:56.949
Do it as an I statement. You define yourself rather
992
00:42:56.989 --> 00:42:59.659
than the child or even the situation. I mean, sometimes
993
00:42:59.699 --> 00:43:03.579
you define the situation, but normally define yourself, talk about
994
00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:06.820
your own feelings around it. Like, I'll feel worried if
995
00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:09.340
you go out in the rain without an umbrella because
996
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:12.260
I'm worried you'll get cold, so humour me and take
997
00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:12.889
your umbrella.
998
00:43:13.409 --> 00:43:15.150
Yeah, so you think that's the best approach.
999
00:43:15.170 --> 00:43:15.730
Doing it like that?
1000
00:43:15.929 --> 00:43:17.650
No, that is the best approach.
1001
00:43:18.010 --> 00:43:21.559
LAUGHTER Fair enough.
1002
00:43:21.940 --> 00:43:25.119
So for example, when I walk my daughter to school, okay,
1003
00:43:25.139 --> 00:43:27.119
on a scooter, she goes on a scooter and she's
1004
00:43:27.139 --> 00:43:29.820
alongside on the scooter. And then in the school grounds,
1005
00:43:29.860 --> 00:43:31.610
there's like these little slopes that come out of sort
1006
00:43:31.619 --> 00:43:33.889
of classrooms down and she wants to go down the
1007
00:43:33.929 --> 00:43:34.909
slope on her scooter.
1008
00:43:35.150 --> 00:43:35.389
Okay.
1009
00:43:35.690 --> 00:43:38.630
Which, and I, my thoughts is I don't really want
1010
00:43:38.670 --> 00:43:40.710
her doing that one because there's cars parked there.
1011
00:43:40.869 --> 00:43:42.309
There's other people walking down this path.
1012
00:43:42.409 --> 00:43:44.469
And I sort of think from a respect point of view,
1013
00:43:44.489 --> 00:43:46.710
you're in the school gates now, let's use the scooter
1014
00:43:46.730 --> 00:43:48.699
as a way to get to school. But It's not
1015
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:51.820
a park to play in. It's the school grounds, okay?
1016
00:43:52.019 --> 00:43:53.739
Which I don't know if that, so I don't know.
1017
00:43:53.860 --> 00:43:55.860
So that's what I've decided upon in my head. And
1018
00:43:55.880 --> 00:43:58.320
then to be fair, she doesn't really suggest the slope
1019
00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:00.639
on her own. It's when there's other kids there that
1020
00:44:00.659 --> 00:44:02.679
start doing it. And I'll say, no, let's not go
1021
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:04.929
down the slope because we're going to school today. And
1022
00:44:05.070 --> 00:44:07.010
if you want to, you know, go down slopes or
1023
00:44:07.030 --> 00:44:08.610
go fast on your scooter or go to the park
1024
00:44:08.630 --> 00:44:10.530
at the weekend, we can put your helmet on and
1025
00:44:10.550 --> 00:44:12.409
then you can go and we'll find some slopes and
1026
00:44:12.429 --> 00:44:14.070
we'll play. But now we're on the way to school.
1027
00:44:14.909 --> 00:44:16.789
That's the sort of position I've got myself in. But
1028
00:44:16.889 --> 00:44:18.929
I don't know now. I'm thinking, am I being too
1029
00:44:18.969 --> 00:44:21.920
harsh on that boring, unnecessarily- You're not being too harsh
1030
00:44:21.940 --> 00:44:23.639
at all. You're not being too harsh.
1031
00:44:24.059 --> 00:44:27.940
But what you're doing is giving her a reason that
1032
00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:31.590
isn't quite the reason. It's sort of like, basically, I
1033
00:44:31.639 --> 00:44:33.809
don't want you playing on the slope with your scooter
1034
00:44:33.849 --> 00:44:38.110
because it makes me uncomfortable. That's it. Why does it
1035
00:44:38.130 --> 00:44:41.590
make you uncomfortable? Then you can say those rules. But
1036
00:44:41.730 --> 00:44:45.070
don't leave yourself out of that equation. Because she will
1037
00:44:45.090 --> 00:44:48.420
be able to empathise with feeling uncomfortable or feeling scared.
1038
00:44:49.019 --> 00:44:53.860
She will argue, no, it's fine. Look, you know, Macy
1039
00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:58.289
and Pacey are going on the slopes and going between
1040
00:44:58.329 --> 00:45:01.019
the cars. And you can say, well, they're making me
1041
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:03.139
uncomfortable too. And I don't want you to make me
1042
00:45:03.159 --> 00:45:04.699
uncomfortable as well. Yeah.
1043
00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:06.510
So bring it back to your own feelings.
1044
00:45:06.739 --> 00:45:09.530
Bring it back to your own feelings each time because
1045
00:45:09.769 --> 00:45:13.030
it's so much easier to hear. And also there's no
1046
00:45:13.110 --> 00:45:16.510
arguing with that. If you feel uncomfortable with her mucking
1047
00:45:16.570 --> 00:45:21.059
about in the schoolyard on the scooter, that's reason enough. Yeah.
1048
00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:24.920
Because you feel uncomfortable. And then she'll learn, too, to
1049
00:45:25.000 --> 00:45:28.280
talk about her own feelings because you'll give her that model.
1050
00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:32.079
So when you say, come on, let's go to this
1051
00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:36.719
party or whatever, she'll say, no, I feel uncomfortable doing that.
1052
00:45:36.900 --> 00:45:39.179
And then you can say why. And you said, because,
1053
00:45:39.550 --> 00:45:41.769
you know, that boy bullies me or whatever it is.
1054
00:45:42.619 --> 00:45:44.929
Okay it's like any relationship honesty is key isn't it
1055
00:45:44.949 --> 00:45:47.289
the same way as like in a marriage honesty for
1056
00:45:47.309 --> 00:45:48.849
me is like such an important part of it where
1057
00:45:48.889 --> 00:45:50.949
if one knows where they stand and it's the same
1058
00:45:50.989 --> 00:45:53.280
thing if you're fostering that relationship with your kid it's
1059
00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:55.559
been it's like i don't go down that slope because
1060
00:45:55.900 --> 00:45:57.719
i'm you know i'm comfortable with you doing it because
1061
00:45:57.739 --> 00:45:59.340
you haven't got the helmet on you might slip crack
1062
00:45:59.360 --> 00:46:01.300
your head open and i've got a really busy day
1063
00:46:01.340 --> 00:46:02.929
so if you're an a and e all day this
1064
00:46:02.969 --> 00:46:05.659
is gonna be a disaster for both of us I think.
1065
00:46:05.500 --> 00:46:10.019
You can just say no, because I'm a scaredy cat,
1066
00:46:10.300 --> 00:46:12.559
rather than tell her she's going to crack her head
1067
00:46:12.579 --> 00:46:15.480
at me. Because I reckon she can manage that slope
1068
00:46:15.539 --> 00:46:20.320
just fine, even without a helmet. You, on the other hand,
1069
00:46:20.340 --> 00:46:24.789
are a bit scared. That's fine. Yeah. Okay, fair enough.
1070
00:46:24.809 --> 00:46:26.610
But don't tell us you're going to crack a hell
1071
00:46:26.650 --> 00:46:28.090
of a headache. No, no, to be fair, it's not
1072
00:46:28.110 --> 00:46:31.579
even the slope's dangerous. It's more like it's like, from
1073
00:46:31.599 --> 00:46:32.940
my own point of view, it's like if you go
1074
00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:34.679
on the school grounds, you should be using the school
1075
00:46:34.699 --> 00:46:36.679
to get to school, not to be playing around.
1076
00:46:36.699 --> 00:46:38.210
I know you have a lot of reasons for it,
1077
00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:40.000
but we'll just stick with you being uncomfortable.
1078
00:46:40.019 --> 00:46:42.219
I'm uncomfortable. I just am uncomfortable. I'll tell you my
1079
00:46:42.260 --> 00:46:42.559
new thing.
1080
00:46:42.619 --> 00:46:44.099
I don't want to do that. Mum and Lou goes,
1081
00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:46.219
we're going to go round my mum and dad's for dinner. No,
1082
00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:50.380
I'm uncomfortable with that. LAUGHTER Well, Philippa said I don't
1083
00:46:50.420 --> 00:46:51.619
really need to explain, but I can give you a
1084
00:46:51.619 --> 00:46:54.650
long list. I'm just a bit uncomfortable with that idea.
1085
00:46:54.670 --> 00:46:56.030
Is that OK?
1086
00:46:56.150 --> 00:46:59.170
I'd like to negotiate this because I don't feel like
1087
00:46:59.210 --> 00:47:02.789
going round because they're too posh for me and I
1088
00:47:02.809 --> 00:47:04.309
feel inferior. Yeah.
1089
00:47:05.340 --> 00:47:08.079
God, she's really got you there, Rob. That's absolutely bullseye.
1090
00:47:08.440 --> 00:47:08.760
Oh, yeah.
1091
00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:09.760
Philippa's got my number.
1092
00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:10.539
I'm sorry.
1093
00:47:11.019 --> 00:47:13.280
That was a guess. I have no idea it was bullseye.
1094
00:47:13.300 --> 00:47:14.500
I'm so sorry.
1095
00:47:14.539 --> 00:47:15.079
Oh, no.
1096
00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:16.500
Straight on the 50 pointer there.
1097
00:47:17.139 --> 00:47:20.440
So this is a question from my friend Aoife, who
1098
00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:24.909
has a four-year-old called Cora. She says, should I stay
1099
00:47:25.090 --> 00:47:30.550
out of her friendship dynamics, the friendship dynamics of insane four-year-olds?
1100
00:47:30.590 --> 00:47:33.750
They're all endlessly being nice to, then suddenly rejecting each other.
1101
00:47:34.429 --> 00:47:36.300
And it's very hard to see it when it's your
1102
00:47:36.340 --> 00:47:40.219
own kid. The kids themselves never seem to give a shit.
1103
00:47:40.780 --> 00:47:42.739
So should you just not bring it up with them
1104
00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:44.119
afterwards unless they mention it?
1105
00:47:44.460 --> 00:47:48.079
I think if they mention it, then you can, if
1106
00:47:48.099 --> 00:47:51.510
your kid's unhappy because their best friend stopped talking to
1107
00:47:51.550 --> 00:47:53.429
them and oh my God, that is the end of
1108
00:47:53.489 --> 00:47:56.949
your world. That is a big deal. Imagine if Rob
1109
00:47:56.989 --> 00:47:59.730
stopped talking to you, Josh, you'd be really hurt, wouldn't you?
1110
00:47:59.750 --> 00:48:02.130
I mean, to be the man I talk, it's just
1111
00:48:02.170 --> 00:48:04.150
a probability that I will talk at him at some point.
1112
00:48:08.409 --> 00:48:12.949
So I believe that your child led on this, but
1113
00:48:12.989 --> 00:48:15.730
that means if your child looks unhappy but hasn't brought
1114
00:48:15.769 --> 00:48:20.440
it up, You can say, what's up? And if they say,
1115
00:48:20.460 --> 00:48:25.449
Sophia isn't talking to me anymore, rather than, right, I'm
1116
00:48:25.489 --> 00:48:28.550
going to go and sort this out with Sophia's mum.
1117
00:48:29.150 --> 00:48:32.210
Because that's my initial, I go into sort of like rage.
1118
00:48:32.489 --> 00:48:36.179
That actually doesn't help. What helps is if you ask
1119
00:48:36.219 --> 00:48:37.880
the kid, what are you going to do about this?
1120
00:48:38.119 --> 00:48:40.619
What do you think we can do or you can do?
1121
00:48:40.639 --> 00:48:42.699
She said, well, I'll be sad for a while, but
1122
00:48:42.739 --> 00:48:45.849
I suppose I won't be sad forever. You go, yes. Yay!
1123
00:48:46.269 --> 00:48:50.760
Or they'll say, I suppose I could play with Josh instead.
1124
00:48:50.820 --> 00:48:53.090
And you go... Yes, I know he's at work at
1125
00:48:53.110 --> 00:48:54.769
the moment, but I'm sure that will be fine.
1126
00:48:55.050 --> 00:48:56.869
Yeah.
1127
00:48:56.929 --> 00:48:58.849
I suppose also as well that I've noticed as well
1128
00:48:58.889 --> 00:49:01.179
is when you say, oh, we're doing this and we're
1129
00:49:01.219 --> 00:49:02.800
doing that, and they ask, can I do this or
1130
00:49:02.820 --> 00:49:04.679
do that, whatever it is, and you go, oh, no,
1131
00:49:04.719 --> 00:49:07.460
we're not doing that, and they'll go, well, insert name, well,
1132
00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:10.039
you know, Simon's allowed to do that.
1133
00:49:10.860 --> 00:49:12.820
But at the moment, our response is, well, I don't
1134
00:49:12.860 --> 00:49:13.710
care what Simon does.
1135
00:49:13.909 --> 00:49:17.110
I think other than that, you could say, well, Simon's
1136
00:49:17.190 --> 00:49:19.969
daddy probably doesn't mind if he breaks his skull in half.
1137
00:49:20.199 --> 00:49:22.010
but I really care about yours.
1138
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:25.940
No, that would be evil. That would be too aggressive.
1139
00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:30.960
That would be manipulative. Just keep it honest. Like, well,
1140
00:49:31.019 --> 00:49:34.059
Simon's dad's got more children. He can probably afford to
1141
00:49:34.119 --> 00:49:37.059
lose one. Whatever it is.
1142
00:49:37.860 --> 00:49:40.980
Do you want some questions from our Instagram followers and listeners?
1143
00:49:41.519 --> 00:49:42.800
I would love that.
1144
00:49:43.019 --> 00:49:46.179
Yeah, this one made me laugh. Is it acceptable to
1145
00:49:46.219 --> 00:49:48.340
stick your finger up at your kid behind their back?
1146
00:49:48.699 --> 00:49:50.239
Well, it's interesting, isn't it?
1147
00:49:51.409 --> 00:49:54.250
Because I think that's not going to solve their problem,
1148
00:49:54.289 --> 00:49:54.530
is it?
1149
00:49:55.050 --> 00:49:59.010
I think the trouble is, is if you go like that,
1150
00:49:59.230 --> 00:50:01.650
I mean, I'm sticking my finger in the air, behind
1151
00:50:01.690 --> 00:50:05.400
your kid's back, what you're not doing is you're not going...
1152
00:50:05.719 --> 00:50:10.019
What is the child triggering in me? Why am I angry?
1153
00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:15.769
What was I like at his age? Oh, I remember I,
1154
00:50:16.250 --> 00:50:21.550
unless I finished my meal, I got my knuckles wrapped.
1155
00:50:22.010 --> 00:50:26.190
So I am associating not finishing my food with humiliation.
1156
00:50:26.909 --> 00:50:31.349
This is why I feel unreasonably angry when they leave
1157
00:50:31.369 --> 00:50:34.769
a bit of food or whatever it is. because what
1158
00:50:34.869 --> 00:50:41.750
makes our kids angry is usually some humiliation or sadness
1159
00:50:41.769 --> 00:50:45.050
that we suffered at their age. And rather than revisit that,
1160
00:50:45.070 --> 00:50:47.650
because we don't want to feel that again, we just
1161
00:50:47.670 --> 00:50:50.050
get angry with the kid. So I think when you're
1162
00:50:50.170 --> 00:50:52.969
angry with your kid, the thing is to be curious
1163
00:50:53.230 --> 00:50:56.929
about why this is triggering for you. And once you've
1164
00:50:57.130 --> 00:50:59.590
got the hang of that, then you won't be triggered
1165
00:50:59.630 --> 00:51:02.789
so much because Quite often the trigger belongs in the
1166
00:51:02.849 --> 00:51:04.170
past and not the present.
1167
00:51:04.409 --> 00:51:04.650
Yeah.
1168
00:51:05.170 --> 00:51:08.070
I had that. I found that what was really triggering me,
1169
00:51:08.329 --> 00:51:11.710
and I don't know why, which what I was finding
1170
00:51:11.849 --> 00:51:18.750
frustrating was my daughter wouldn't, when she found drawing something
1171
00:51:18.809 --> 00:51:23.809
difficult or she went through a stage basically where, because
1172
00:51:23.889 --> 00:51:27.090
she wasn't able to draw what she wanted to, she
1173
00:51:27.139 --> 00:51:29.429
never wanted to do it. And she just asked you
1174
00:51:29.500 --> 00:51:34.469
to do the drawing for her. And I was like,
1175
00:51:34.710 --> 00:51:36.789
why is this such a big trigger for me? And
1176
00:51:36.809 --> 00:51:39.659
I was talking to my wife about it because obviously
1177
00:51:39.760 --> 00:51:41.960
she was fine with it, as you would be. But
1178
00:51:42.219 --> 00:51:44.739
there was something in me where I was like, there's
1179
00:51:44.800 --> 00:51:48.619
something here about this in me that I find really difficult.
1180
00:51:48.900 --> 00:51:53.679
I don't know. I think it might be that part
1181
00:51:53.739 --> 00:51:58.070
of my approach to life is that I really try
1182
00:51:58.130 --> 00:52:01.949
and really push myself to do stuff and like really
1183
00:52:01.989 --> 00:52:04.369
try and challenge myself and stuff. And I don't know.
1184
00:52:04.489 --> 00:52:07.429
What happened to you when you were small and you said,
1185
00:52:07.489 --> 00:52:08.309
I can't do this?
1186
00:52:08.730 --> 00:52:10.570
I don't know. Cause I was trying to think that
1187
00:52:10.610 --> 00:52:12.469
when I read in the book, I was like, I
1188
00:52:12.530 --> 00:52:13.650
can't think what that is.
1189
00:52:13.929 --> 00:52:15.909
I mean, I have a similar thing that when my
1190
00:52:16.010 --> 00:52:19.389
daughter was learning how to tie shoelaces and she couldn't
1191
00:52:19.429 --> 00:52:22.440
do it, I felt this anger come up in me
1192
00:52:22.559 --> 00:52:24.599
and I wanted to say, just let me do that.
1193
00:52:25.019 --> 00:52:26.820
You know, I just wanted to grab the shoe off
1194
00:52:26.860 --> 00:52:29.769
her and do it. And I just felt furious and
1195
00:52:29.889 --> 00:52:33.829
really impatient. And I thought, whoa, what's this about? And
1196
00:52:34.150 --> 00:52:36.969
when I look back on it, I realize that that's
1197
00:52:37.050 --> 00:52:39.630
exactly what my father did to me when I couldn't
1198
00:52:39.670 --> 00:52:42.030
do my shoes up. He got so bored of waiting
1199
00:52:42.090 --> 00:52:43.949
for me. He just said, well, let me do it
1200
00:52:44.030 --> 00:52:48.690
like that. And that was deeply humiliating. And I think
1201
00:52:48.989 --> 00:52:53.369
sometimes we can find our child's incompetence, you know, because
1202
00:52:53.389 --> 00:52:56.260
they can't handle a pencil properly or they can't do
1203
00:52:56.320 --> 00:53:00.809
up their shoelaces. really frustrating because it reminds us of
1204
00:53:00.909 --> 00:53:03.650
our own incompetence when we were that age and when
1205
00:53:03.670 --> 00:53:05.909
your older sister can do it and your parents can
1206
00:53:05.929 --> 00:53:08.030
do it and you still can't tie your shoelaces up
1207
00:53:08.090 --> 00:53:11.320
or whatever it is or draw the picture it can
1208
00:53:12.659 --> 00:53:15.239
those feelings were everything to us at the time I
1209
00:53:15.260 --> 00:53:17.420
mean now if you can't do something you're not flooded
1210
00:53:17.460 --> 00:53:19.650
with humiliation you just say teach me how to do
1211
00:53:19.690 --> 00:53:24.010
this again but then you might have been. And we
1212
00:53:24.070 --> 00:53:26.670
forget that we're now adults and we can cope with
1213
00:53:26.710 --> 00:53:29.030
a bit of humiliation or we can cope even with
1214
00:53:29.130 --> 00:53:32.989
remembering it. But our unconscious selves feels like it will
1215
00:53:33.010 --> 00:53:36.590
take us right back down to when we were super
1216
00:53:36.650 --> 00:53:41.289
humiliated or felt terribly incompetent or whatever it was. And
1217
00:53:41.550 --> 00:53:43.969
that's why we have this little rage that comes up
1218
00:53:44.329 --> 00:53:50.019
because it protects us from feeling that humiliation. So I'm guessing...
1219
00:53:49.900 --> 00:53:52.400
You got cross when she said, draw me a car
1220
00:53:52.460 --> 00:53:56.469
or whatever it was, because your body, even if you
1221
00:53:56.530 --> 00:53:59.230
can't remember, your body remembers not being able to draw
1222
00:53:59.269 --> 00:54:03.010
a car and how frustrating or humiliating or incompetent feeling
1223
00:54:03.050 --> 00:54:03.750
that made you feel.
1224
00:54:04.039 --> 00:54:07.780
I've never been good at drawing, so there's every chance.
1225
00:54:08.559 --> 00:54:10.880
You forget those moments because you become an adult and
1226
00:54:11.219 --> 00:54:13.800
you just tie your shoes without thinking. It's only when
1227
00:54:13.900 --> 00:54:16.750
you're confronted with the person you're teaching the world that
1228
00:54:16.829 --> 00:54:19.969
you go, oh yeah, it comes flooding back. And I
1229
00:54:20.010 --> 00:54:23.489
find that with little opens, tiny little things. I think
1230
00:54:23.570 --> 00:54:26.010
everyone is buried at certain points. And, you know, like
1231
00:54:26.190 --> 00:54:29.260
for example, scooters, my daughter's got a three wheeled scooter
1232
00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:31.099
and then you know, some kids are aged on a
1233
00:54:31.159 --> 00:54:33.500
two-wheeled one or a three-wheeled one, and we've just got,
1234
00:54:33.940 --> 00:54:36.409
she's not as confident on it. And then we've just
1235
00:54:36.449 --> 00:54:38.710
got the bigger version of the three-wheeled scooter, so it's
1236
00:54:38.750 --> 00:54:41.170
more stable because she's not very confident on bikes and
1237
00:54:41.190 --> 00:54:43.130
stuff like that. And we're like, oh no, we're not
1238
00:54:43.179 --> 00:54:45.099
going to get in this sort of arms race of
1239
00:54:45.139 --> 00:54:47.500
a kid being able to ride a bike. Who gives
1240
00:54:47.559 --> 00:54:47.820
a shit?
1241
00:54:48.400 --> 00:54:51.139
You know what I mean? So it needs to be, if.
1242
00:54:51.099 --> 00:54:53.300
She's happy and confident and isn't even going to join
1243
00:54:53.320 --> 00:54:56.619
that scooter, that's way more important than, but at that age,
1244
00:54:56.659 --> 00:54:57.440
she should be doing that.
1245
00:54:57.500 --> 00:54:58.679
Or at that age, she should be drawing a car.
1246
00:54:58.699 --> 00:55:00.300
At that age, she should be tying her laces.
1247
00:55:00.340 --> 00:55:02.889
But you feel it. You feel it coming up in you.
1248
00:55:02.909 --> 00:55:05.010
I wish she was on the two-wheeler.
1249
00:55:05.190 --> 00:55:07.409
Because I've done bits of therapy as well, like just
1250
00:55:07.429 --> 00:55:09.630
trying to, not even about my kids, just about the
1251
00:55:09.650 --> 00:55:12.550
way I approach work and poverty mindset and that kind
1252
00:55:12.590 --> 00:55:15.329
of stuff. And sort of knowing my value enough so
1253
00:55:15.349 --> 00:55:17.469
I'm not just thinking it's like imposter syndrome and stuff
1254
00:55:17.489 --> 00:55:19.599
like that. So I've done stuff like that and worked
1255
00:55:19.659 --> 00:55:21.130
on me a little bit where I fill these little
1256
00:55:21.889 --> 00:55:24.789
energy that just builds this rush of red that comes
1257
00:55:24.889 --> 00:55:27.670
over me if it's like something and then I what
1258
00:55:27.710 --> 00:55:29.789
I've learned to do and I've transferred that to the
1259
00:55:29.809 --> 00:55:32.659
kids is sit with the feeling and because the feeling's
1260
00:55:32.699 --> 00:55:34.619
not fact it's not what's happening it's just how your
1261
00:55:34.639 --> 00:55:36.860
body feels at that moment and just sit on it
1262
00:55:37.139 --> 00:55:39.159
but before I wouldn't sit on it I'd go right
1263
00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:41.059
how can I solve this how can I change this
1264
00:55:41.099 --> 00:55:42.880
how can but now I'm learning to just sit on
1265
00:55:42.940 --> 00:55:45.010
it more and I find that helps me and I
1266
00:55:45.050 --> 00:55:47.550
do mindfulness breathing and stuff and I've started with the
1267
00:55:47.610 --> 00:55:49.550
girls trying to get them to sort of breathe a
1268
00:55:49.550 --> 00:55:51.369
little bit, just sit with it. And I think that
1269
00:55:51.750 --> 00:55:55.389
your first thought isn't always your best thought of that situation.
1270
00:55:55.409 --> 00:55:58.289
It's better to sit on it and just hold that feeling.
1271
00:55:58.329 --> 00:56:01.429
And so what does it matter if they're doing that
1272
00:56:01.530 --> 00:56:03.480
before another kid or after? As long as they're happy
1273
00:56:03.579 --> 00:56:06.219
and enjoying the time on the scooter, that's the main thing,
1274
00:56:06.260 --> 00:56:08.300
you know, but it's learning that process.
1275
00:56:08.320 --> 00:56:10.659
It's like, there's almost a bit of you that's, you know,
1276
00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:14.280
your inner four-year-old is a bit merged with her and
1277
00:56:14.360 --> 00:56:18.380
what you felt at her age can come flooding up
1278
00:56:18.750 --> 00:56:21.510
And we know when we're being triggered by the past
1279
00:56:21.570 --> 00:56:23.469
because you do get, like you said, this sort of
1280
00:56:23.550 --> 00:56:25.059
sudden little charge of emotion.
1281
00:56:25.559 --> 00:56:26.800
What's that about?
1282
00:56:27.219 --> 00:56:30.300
And your idea of sitting with it is just... fine
1283
00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:31.659
and very good.
1284
00:56:31.980 --> 00:56:32.960
Oh, thanks, Philippa.
1285
00:56:33.380 --> 00:56:36.469
Well, I think maybe growing up, I can imagine someone going,
1286
00:56:36.489 --> 00:56:37.550
you can't ride a bike yet.
1287
00:56:37.670 --> 00:56:39.050
I can learn to ride a bike. Well, yeah, I
1288
00:56:39.070 --> 00:56:40.150
could ride a bike at your age.
1289
00:56:40.210 --> 00:56:42.670
I don't know if someone said that to me, but
1290
00:56:42.750 --> 00:56:44.949
it might have been in there, you know, and stuff
1291
00:56:44.989 --> 00:56:46.849
like that. But yeah, I think that's to say, as
1292
00:56:46.869 --> 00:56:49.880
you grow with your child, all those little things come back.
1293
00:56:49.900 --> 00:56:51.860
I remember trying to have a shave for the first time.
1294
00:56:51.880 --> 00:56:54.119
And I remember getting like a razor and doing it
1295
00:56:54.159 --> 00:56:56.239
and I cut my lip a bit and I can
1296
00:56:56.320 --> 00:56:59.820
still now vividly remember coming because i've got four brothers
1297
00:56:59.880 --> 00:57:01.179
sitting in the front room and i was and i
1298
00:57:01.179 --> 00:57:03.260
was sitting like that to like cover the cucks i
1299
00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:04.860
couldn't put tissue because they want anyone to know that
1300
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:06.940
i javed because i didn't really need to and if
1301
00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:09.679
you say that to four boys and they're like wanker
1302
00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:11.280
thought he had a beard you haven't got a beard
1303
00:57:11.300 --> 00:57:13.050
you little prick and it would be that so i
1304
00:57:13.050 --> 00:57:15.170
remember sitting there and i can still vividly remember that
1305
00:57:15.210 --> 00:57:17.750
little moment and it's different that you know so i
1306
00:57:17.789 --> 00:57:19.650
think it does take you back to moments where you
1307
00:57:19.670 --> 00:57:21.829
felt vulnerable and you want to you want to try
1308
00:57:21.849 --> 00:57:23.949
and Make it better for your kid, but actually you
1309
00:57:23.969 --> 00:57:26.250
can sometimes make it worse by just putting the same
1310
00:57:26.349 --> 00:57:27.440
pressure on them that you had on you.
1311
00:57:27.449 --> 00:57:29.949
Luckily, Rob, you've got two girls, so you're not going
1312
00:57:29.969 --> 00:57:32.030
to have to revisit the shaving nightmare.
1313
00:57:32.130 --> 00:57:33.130
You never know.
1314
00:57:35.909 --> 00:57:39.340
Silent Night is a new British crime thriller out now
1315
00:57:39.440 --> 00:57:40.280
on all digitals.
1316
00:57:40.300 --> 00:57:45.280
I haven't got a choice. They're blackmailing me. They only
1317
00:57:45.320 --> 00:57:47.599
take out three brothers, three rings.
1318
00:57:48.059 --> 00:57:49.840
This money could set up Daisy for life.
1319
00:57:50.460 --> 00:57:51.119
Bang, bang, bang.
1320
00:57:51.710 --> 00:57:53.329
It should be easy for many, I believe.
1321
00:57:54.050 --> 00:57:57.210
Marky, if my family goes down, it won't be.
1322
00:57:57.150 --> 00:57:57.750
The only one.
1323
00:57:58.750 --> 00:58:01.190
They won't stop contacting you. If they want you, they'll
1324
00:58:01.210 --> 00:58:03.389
just keep going. You know as.
1325
00:58:03.309 --> 00:58:06.829
Well as I do, Mark, this won't end well.
1326
00:58:08.570 --> 00:58:11.030
Tell me, when did killing people become so hard, Marky?
1327
00:58:11.590 --> 00:58:15.159
If I could give up one good Christmas, I'd die
1328
00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:15.960
a happy man.
1329
00:58:17.050 --> 00:58:18.429
Rent or buy on demand.
1330
00:58:18.449 --> 00:58:23.739
iTunes, Amazon, Sky, Virgin, Rakuten, Google and PlayStation. And in
1331
00:58:23.800 --> 00:58:26.550
supermarkets on DVD 28th of December.
1332
00:58:27.579 --> 00:58:29.239
Get your copy now.
1333
00:58:31.500 --> 00:58:33.800
Oh, I've got one here quickly from Red Fox Jodie.
1334
00:58:34.199 --> 00:58:37.820
How nine-month-old girl Robin keeps chewing and eating cardboard boxes.
1335
00:58:38.219 --> 00:58:39.880
How do we stop this? I mean, that's a quick one.
1336
00:58:39.920 --> 00:58:41.340
Just don't put boxes near her.
1337
00:58:41.980 --> 00:58:42.659
You've got it, Rob.
1338
00:58:42.940 --> 00:58:44.480
Just take the cardboard boxes away.
1339
00:58:45.630 --> 00:58:47.510
I don't want to answer for you, Philippa, but I
1340
00:58:47.750 --> 00:58:50.550
think that's just keep her away from cardboard boxes.
1341
00:58:51.360 --> 00:58:54.139
What food is a bit like cardboard box? It's sort
1342
00:58:54.219 --> 00:58:58.400
of like a rusk or something. Yeah. It's the great phrase.
1343
00:58:58.780 --> 00:59:02.139
Boxes aren't for eating. Rusks are for eating. So you
1344
00:59:02.489 --> 00:59:05.070
swap one for the other. Or hide all cardboard box.
1345
00:59:05.170 --> 00:59:06.730
Or just give them a plastic box and go, good
1346
00:59:06.769 --> 00:59:07.150
luck with that.
1347
00:59:08.230 --> 00:59:09.070
Good luck with that, gummies.
1348
00:59:09.690 --> 00:59:14.460
Okay. This is from Emily. So Emily's got two children.
1349
00:59:14.940 --> 00:59:17.800
How do you be patient and child-led when you have
1350
00:59:18.019 --> 00:59:22.409
two children wanting something different at the same time? Okay.
1351
00:59:22.789 --> 00:59:27.809
I am not child-led. I am relationship-led. It's a key difference.
1352
00:59:28.349 --> 00:59:30.610
So you've got... One kid that wants to go to
1353
00:59:30.639 --> 00:59:33.480
the park and one kid that wants to go to
1354
00:59:33.500 --> 00:59:36.519
the swimming pool, right? Yeah. So we just sit everybody
1355
00:59:36.559 --> 00:59:39.059
down or whatever we're doing. Oh, we have a problem.
1356
00:59:39.420 --> 00:59:42.199
Billy wants to go to the park. Laurie wants to
1357
00:59:42.219 --> 00:59:46.429
go to John Lewis or whatever it is. And mummy
1358
00:59:46.489 --> 00:59:50.469
wants to go to Sainsbury's. So some people are not
1359
00:59:50.510 --> 00:59:53.010
going to get what they want. So somebody is going
1360
00:59:53.030 --> 00:59:55.599
to be sad and someone's going to be happy. Well,
1361
00:59:55.760 --> 00:59:58.380
I think we're going to Sainsbury's and I'm very sorry, kids,
1362
00:59:58.420 --> 01:00:01.179
you're not getting your own way. Or if one wants
1363
01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:03.679
one thing and one wants the other, this isn't a
1364
01:00:03.880 --> 01:00:07.389
battle where somebody wins and somebody loses. So how can
1365
01:00:07.429 --> 01:00:11.489
we all win? And brainstorm with the children. We're not
1366
01:00:11.530 --> 01:00:13.969
going to play winners and losers. So how can we
1367
01:00:14.050 --> 01:00:17.610
all win? Maybe we can find a third activity that's
1368
01:00:17.630 --> 01:00:20.550
a compromise or something, you know. Bring them all in
1369
01:00:20.610 --> 01:00:26.059
with the process, always. And, you know, getting to talk
1370
01:00:26.099 --> 01:00:28.440
about how they feel. I mean, what I usually do
1371
01:00:28.480 --> 01:00:30.739
in that situation, because believe it or not, it still
1372
01:00:30.780 --> 01:00:34.940
happens that my husband wants one thing and my child
1373
01:00:35.000 --> 01:00:38.300
wants another. And they're both very entrenched in their position
1374
01:00:38.340 --> 01:00:40.760
and they're looking to me to solve it out. So
1375
01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:43.039
there are a couple of siblings. I'm like, I'm torn
1376
01:00:43.059 --> 01:00:48.300
in bloody half. And I just say this is a problem.
1377
01:00:48.699 --> 01:00:52.670
And they do come to a compromise. I mean. He's
1378
01:00:52.670 --> 01:00:55.230
60 now. So he's getting very mature at this sort
1379
01:00:55.329 --> 01:00:55.510
of thing.
1380
01:00:57.070 --> 01:00:59.219
With the Sainteris thing though, as well, if you, you know,
1381
01:00:59.239 --> 01:01:01.320
the kids want to go to two separate places and
1382
01:01:01.360 --> 01:01:03.260
you want to go to the shops and go to Sainteris.
1383
01:01:03.679 --> 01:01:05.559
Like when you say that, you go, this is what
1384
01:01:05.579 --> 01:01:07.380
we're doing. You know, you're going to be upset, but
1385
01:01:07.400 --> 01:01:09.059
this is what we're doing. That doesn't mean to say
1386
01:01:09.099 --> 01:01:10.920
the kids are going to go, Oh, okay. Then they
1387
01:01:10.940 --> 01:01:12.280
may kick off and they may have a meltdown, but
1388
01:01:12.300 --> 01:01:14.559
then they'll learn from that. Cause that's just what happens.
1389
01:01:14.659 --> 01:01:16.800
Well, you know, I don't know if they'll learn from
1390
01:01:16.860 --> 01:01:21.030
it or not, but, um, if they have a meltdown,
1391
01:01:21.050 --> 01:01:24.570
we go, oh, it feels so bad right now, doesn't it?
1392
01:01:24.889 --> 01:01:27.570
That I'm going to Sainsbury's and not the park. And,
1393
01:01:27.630 --> 01:01:30.230
you know, we just have a three-way cuddle at that point.
1394
01:01:30.570 --> 01:01:30.789
Yeah.
1395
01:01:30.809 --> 01:01:32.409
Because you're not doing anything awful.
1396
01:01:32.449 --> 01:01:34.130
You're just going to different shops. It's just more of
1397
01:01:34.170 --> 01:01:35.320
a power play sometimes.
1398
01:01:35.340 --> 01:01:39.460
I once had, my daughter was having such a meltdown
1399
01:01:39.739 --> 01:01:43.820
in Sainsbury's once. I think it was because I wouldn't
1400
01:01:43.860 --> 01:01:46.579
let her eat the grapes that weren't washed. I can't
1401
01:01:46.619 --> 01:01:47.780
remember what it was, but.
1402
01:01:47.699 --> 01:01:50.730
I'd, You picked your boundary and it was a dirty grape.
1403
01:01:50.869 --> 01:01:55.110
And I just... I just said, oh, I can't be bothered.
1404
01:01:55.130 --> 01:01:58.670
And I left the whole full trolley and walked out
1405
01:01:58.949 --> 01:01:59.610
of the shop.
1406
01:01:59.760 --> 01:02:00.460
Oh, wow.
1407
01:02:00.739 --> 01:02:02.900
I don't know why I wasn't done for abducting children
1408
01:02:02.920 --> 01:02:05.059
because I had her under my arm and every limb
1409
01:02:05.119 --> 01:02:08.059
was sort of going in all directions.
1410
01:02:08.159 --> 01:02:10.340
At that point, Philippa, how was you feeling though? Because
1411
01:02:10.380 --> 01:02:12.730
obviously that would, is that something you'd recommend?
1412
01:02:12.989 --> 01:02:14.849
I was feeling a bit mortified because I realised that
1413
01:02:14.869 --> 01:02:17.969
I'd forgotten to give her a nap and she was overtired.
1414
01:02:18.110 --> 01:02:19.909
So it was all my fault. So I was feeling
1415
01:02:19.949 --> 01:02:22.849
a little bit mortified. But then we had a great
1416
01:02:22.889 --> 01:02:24.670
takeaway dinner, so that was nice.
1417
01:02:25.239 --> 01:02:28.460
Is that something you think there was an anomaly, where
1418
01:02:28.760 --> 01:02:30.780
because you didn't give her the nap, it sort of
1419
01:02:30.820 --> 01:02:33.739
went a bit sideways? Or is that a fair way
1420
01:02:33.780 --> 01:02:35.719
to handle that situation? If a kid has a meltdown,
1421
01:02:35.760 --> 01:02:37.909
would you just take her back to the shop?
1422
01:02:37.969 --> 01:02:41.449
No, I wouldn't prescribe anything. It's just that if a
1423
01:02:41.489 --> 01:02:45.269
kid has a meltdown, I'd say be kind, don't be oppositional.
1424
01:02:45.849 --> 01:02:49.320
If the kid's having any feelings, in fact, be kind,
1425
01:02:49.429 --> 01:02:53.099
don't be oppositional. Because if the kid says, I don't
1426
01:02:53.219 --> 01:02:56.340
want to put my coat on. You go, you really
1427
01:02:56.380 --> 01:02:58.199
don't want to put your coat on. And here am
1428
01:02:58.260 --> 01:03:00.460
I worried that you're going to get cold. Okay, I'll
1429
01:03:00.480 --> 01:03:02.940
tell you what, we'll go out and I'll hold the coat.
1430
01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:04.349
And if you want it, you can put it on.
1431
01:03:04.360 --> 01:03:06.980
You know, rather than getting in a fight.
1432
01:03:07.800 --> 01:03:08.079
Yeah.
1433
01:03:08.360 --> 01:03:11.699
You're just a waste of time. Yeah. I feel like
1434
01:03:11.739 --> 01:03:14.880
it's like steering into the skid. When you're, before we
1435
01:03:14.900 --> 01:03:18.500
had ABS brakes, if you got on an ice patch
1436
01:03:18.679 --> 01:03:22.579
and you started to go towards the wall, Your instinct
1437
01:03:22.699 --> 01:03:24.659
is to get the steering wheel and go in the
1438
01:03:24.699 --> 01:03:27.519
opposite direction. But the momentum of the car is still
1439
01:03:27.579 --> 01:03:29.659
taking you to the wall. So it doesn't work. But
1440
01:03:30.300 --> 01:03:33.800
if you steer into the skid, then you can drive
1441
01:03:33.900 --> 01:03:35.820
out of the skid because the wheels are going in
1442
01:03:35.889 --> 01:03:38.449
the direction of motion. So when you turn them, they go.
1443
01:03:38.739 --> 01:03:41.510
And that's the same with a tantrum or feelings or anything.
1444
01:03:42.179 --> 01:03:44.179
Go with it so you can steer out of it.
1445
01:03:44.599 --> 01:03:47.139
Obviously, that example of the coat when you're saying like
1446
01:03:47.159 --> 01:03:49.590
their body temperature is different and maybe they genuinely don't
1447
01:03:49.610 --> 01:03:50.989
want to wear the coat because it will be too
1448
01:03:51.090 --> 01:03:53.090
hot and stuffy for them and they're running around the park.
1449
01:03:53.389 --> 01:03:56.070
But there must be examples where sometimes that can just
1450
01:03:56.090 --> 01:03:58.670
be used as a get my own way, almost sort
1451
01:03:58.690 --> 01:03:59.489
of power play.
1452
01:03:59.510 --> 01:04:02.429
But why would you be having power plays unless you've
1453
01:04:02.489 --> 01:04:05.619
taught them how to have power plays? That's the cultural
1454
01:04:05.679 --> 01:04:08.440
thing that you learn, a power play. It's not something
1455
01:04:08.480 --> 01:04:09.780
that's in your instinct.
1456
01:04:10.300 --> 01:04:12.599
It's something they've seen within the household.
1457
01:04:12.699 --> 01:04:14.000
Or had put on them, yeah.
1458
01:04:14.539 --> 01:04:14.940
Okay.
1459
01:04:15.059 --> 01:04:16.880
So when you want to get your way with your
1460
01:04:16.900 --> 01:04:19.199
kid because you think they can't get their own way,
1461
01:04:19.530 --> 01:04:22.250
you are actually teaching them how to be stubborn and
1462
01:04:22.289 --> 01:04:28.409
it will come right back at you. When you are thoughtful, kind, empathetic,
1463
01:04:29.010 --> 01:04:32.150
take your time, you'll get that back at you. She
1464
01:04:32.230 --> 01:04:34.489
did go to Sainsbury's and get my shopping, even if
1465
01:04:34.550 --> 01:04:36.809
she wouldn't break the rules and come into the house.
1466
01:04:37.389 --> 01:04:38.550
She's nice, you know.
1467
01:04:38.829 --> 01:04:40.570
Yeah.
1468
01:04:40.670 --> 01:04:42.409
And if she wasn't nice, she would have given you
1469
01:04:42.449 --> 01:04:44.150
a cuddle because that would be the worst thing she
1470
01:04:44.170 --> 01:04:44.489
could have done.
1471
01:04:44.510 --> 01:04:44.969
That's right.
1472
01:04:48.409 --> 01:04:49.670
We always ask this question at the end of the
1473
01:04:49.690 --> 01:04:52.449
podcast about if there's anything that frustrates you about your
1474
01:04:52.489 --> 01:04:56.269
partner and their parenting that you have never said to
1475
01:04:56.309 --> 01:04:58.849
them because it will cause a row, but it's a
1476
01:04:58.909 --> 01:05:00.789
fair comment. And if they were to listen to the
1477
01:05:00.829 --> 01:05:02.869
podcast and pick up on it, they would go, oh, yeah,
1478
01:05:02.889 --> 01:05:03.250
that is fair.
1479
01:05:03.269 --> 01:05:03.869
I'll stop doing that.
1480
01:05:03.889 --> 01:05:05.269
Is there anything that you'd like to get off your
1481
01:05:05.289 --> 01:05:06.829
chest now that you've not been able to about the
1482
01:05:06.869 --> 01:05:08.860
way you're Your husband, parents?
1483
01:05:09.940 --> 01:05:11.780
No. No?
1484
01:05:11.860 --> 01:05:12.750
I think it's nothing.
1485
01:05:12.769 --> 01:05:17.269
I mean, after being in therapy for about 25 years
1486
01:05:17.349 --> 01:05:21.989
myself and having loads of other people in therapy with
1487
01:05:22.030 --> 01:05:25.110
me for about 30 years, you'd think, wouldn't you, that
1488
01:05:25.139 --> 01:05:26.920
I'd be able to talk to my husband about something
1489
01:05:26.940 --> 01:05:30.699
that bothers me? And I think I have, and I
1490
01:05:30.719 --> 01:05:33.269
think we're good. I'm so sorry, I haven't got anything
1491
01:05:33.289 --> 01:05:34.449
for them.
1492
01:05:34.590 --> 01:05:36.269
I mean, that's the tree.
1493
01:05:36.289 --> 01:05:38.650
That's why you can write this book, because you aren't
1494
01:05:38.710 --> 01:05:41.960
harbouring anger over tea towels or muslins being left in
1495
01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:44.179
a drawer or something. It's hard to disagree with a
1496
01:05:44.179 --> 01:05:45.880
psychotherapist that's written a book about parenting.
1497
01:05:45.900 --> 01:05:47.280
Like, actually, I've got an idea.
1498
01:05:49.460 --> 01:05:53.300
You say what your feeling is, and you say why,
1499
01:05:53.989 --> 01:05:56.949
and then you say what you want.
1500
01:05:57.409 --> 01:05:57.570
So.
1501
01:05:58.320 --> 01:05:59.900
Complaint with a recommendation.
1502
01:06:04.010 --> 01:06:08.269
I'm going to adopt complaint with recommendation with Louise this
1503
01:06:08.329 --> 01:06:09.789
week and then report back.
1504
01:06:10.030 --> 01:06:11.829
Like when you put a boundary down with the child,
1505
01:06:11.909 --> 01:06:14.630
make it into a nice statement. Don't say you are
1506
01:06:14.670 --> 01:06:16.929
ridiculous to leave the bib on the tap. But if
1507
01:06:16.969 --> 01:06:19.150
you say, I don't like the bib on the tap
1508
01:06:19.190 --> 01:06:22.489
because of my particular neurosis. So it would help them
1509
01:06:22.610 --> 01:06:25.949
a lot if you'd leave it here instead. Yeah.
1510
01:06:26.539 --> 01:06:27.960
See, I've got a good one that I can work
1511
01:06:28.079 --> 01:06:28.480
out now.
1512
01:06:28.619 --> 01:06:32.719
I can say, Lou, this is my, was it a complaint?
1513
01:06:32.739 --> 01:06:35.139
So the complaint is, Louise, whenever, you know, the kids
1514
01:06:35.199 --> 01:06:36.510
are in bed and the house is all nice and
1515
01:06:36.530 --> 01:06:38.010
clean and tidy and you go out for the night
1516
01:06:38.250 --> 01:06:41.110
and you grab your going out bag, once you've put
1517
01:06:41.150 --> 01:06:43.630
your purse in it, you empty the entire contents of
1518
01:06:43.650 --> 01:06:47.309
that bag on the dining room table and then leave.
1519
01:06:47.630 --> 01:06:50.730
I find that quite annoying when it's all clean and tidy. Recommendation,
1520
01:06:51.070 --> 01:06:51.869
don't fucking do it.
1521
01:06:53.719 --> 01:06:55.980
Or put it in a drawer. But that happens a
1522
01:06:55.980 --> 01:06:56.639
lot in our house.
1523
01:06:57.699 --> 01:07:03.099
I have bought you this beautiful bejeweled box and I
1524
01:07:03.159 --> 01:07:04.179
would like it if.
1525
01:07:04.489 --> 01:07:09.110
Yeah, you could put your mint, the car keys, crushed
1526
01:07:09.190 --> 01:07:11.610
up pom bears in it rather than on the dining table.
1527
01:07:12.030 --> 01:07:12.130
Yeah.
1528
01:07:12.150 --> 01:07:12.989
And put it in the box.
1529
01:07:13.210 --> 01:07:14.349
A bejeweled box.
1530
01:07:14.489 --> 01:07:17.570
A bejeweled box so you can put all that in.
1531
01:07:17.630 --> 01:07:20.659
That's a recommendation. Oh, Philippa, it's been amazing. Thank you
1532
01:07:20.719 --> 01:07:21.239
so much.
1533
01:07:21.320 --> 01:07:24.980
Thank you so much, Philippa. I'm... The book, again.
1534
01:07:25.400 --> 01:07:28.380
Oh, yeah. My book is the book you wish your
1535
01:07:28.440 --> 01:07:30.800
parents had read and your children would be glad that
1536
01:07:30.840 --> 01:07:35.420
you did. And you'll just have the best life with
1537
01:07:35.500 --> 01:07:39.920
this book. No more arguing. No more chores. You'll just
1538
01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:43.860
enjoy yourselves all day long. Everything's a walk in the park.
1539
01:07:44.179 --> 01:07:47.519
And when you're not enjoying yourself, you'll learn to accept
1540
01:07:47.559 --> 01:07:49.860
your other feelings as well. It's great.
1541
01:07:50.619 --> 01:07:54.050
I'm going to be honest, Philippa. It genuinely has... had
1542
01:07:54.090 --> 01:07:56.989
a huge positive impact on my life and my relationship
1543
01:07:57.010 --> 01:07:59.050
with my daughter. So thank you very much for that.
1544
01:07:59.429 --> 01:08:01.329
And I love you for saying that. Thank you, Josh.
1545
01:08:01.389 --> 01:08:03.110
No, genuinely. Thank you.
1546
01:08:03.150 --> 01:08:05.030
Most of the questions that come in, well, questions that
1547
01:08:05.050 --> 01:08:06.289
I haven't got a question. I just want to say
1548
01:08:06.329 --> 01:08:09.250
it's the best book about parenting ever written. So you've
1549
01:08:09.269 --> 01:08:12.269
got a lot of fans, Philippa. So definitely grab that book.
1550
01:08:12.829 --> 01:08:13.449
Thank you so much.
1551
01:08:13.469 --> 01:08:14.849
Thanks so much, Philippa.
1552
01:08:14.889 --> 01:08:18.510
And it's out in paperback from the 31st of December.
1553
01:08:19.029 --> 01:08:21.460
One last question is, Do you think we need to
1554
01:08:21.500 --> 01:08:23.939
change the name of our podcast to save our children
1555
01:08:23.979 --> 01:08:25.819
having issues in a future life?
1556
01:08:26.220 --> 01:08:26.619
Please.
1557
01:08:27.859 --> 01:08:29.710
But what I would say is that it does really help,
1558
01:08:29.729 --> 01:08:33.210
you know, sort of comedically and get clicks and likes,
1559
01:08:33.250 --> 01:08:35.289
doesn't it, the name? It's lovely to make the.
1560
01:08:35.270 --> 01:08:38.609
Children the butt of our jokes. Yeah, that's such a
1561
01:08:38.649 --> 01:08:42.489
great idea for their self-esteem. Oh, no.
1562
01:08:43.010 --> 01:08:43.390
Oh, no.
1563
01:08:43.430 --> 01:08:46.569
What have we done, Josh? Can we negotiate it to purgatory?
1564
01:08:46.590 --> 01:08:50.039
LAUGHTER Yeah, well, we'll have to think of that now.
1565
01:08:50.119 --> 01:08:51.680
I think if you've told us it's going to affect
1566
01:08:51.739 --> 01:08:53.079
our children, we have to change the name of it.
1567
01:08:53.079 --> 01:08:55.470
The problem is now, I'm never going to be able
1568
01:08:55.479 --> 01:08:58.090
to think about, I mean, we are going to have
1569
01:08:58.109 --> 01:09:00.850
to change it now. That's it.
1570
01:09:00.930 --> 01:09:03.409
Philippa, I think if you said to Josh that you
1571
01:09:03.430 --> 01:09:06.300
should change the title deeds to his house into your name,
1572
01:09:06.340 --> 01:09:09.479
he'd go, yeah, it's probably quite a good idea. Probably
1573
01:09:09.500 --> 01:09:10.220
a good way forward.
1574
01:09:10.260 --> 01:09:10.380
Yeah.
1575
01:09:10.640 --> 01:09:12.699
I think you've got a lot of sway over Josh Willicam.
1576
01:09:13.159 --> 01:09:14.439
Thanks very much, Philippa.
1577
01:09:14.560 --> 01:09:16.819
I'm really glad I came because I've had a lovely time.
1578
01:09:17.000 --> 01:09:17.460
Oh, brilliant.
1579
01:09:17.479 --> 01:09:22.750
Thank you so much, Philippa. Josh, I've never seen you
1580
01:09:22.789 --> 01:09:24.810
like this. It's like you've just met Elvis.
1581
01:09:25.489 --> 01:09:27.609
Do you know what? When I met Blur, I was
1582
01:09:27.810 --> 01:09:29.340
equally tongue-tied.
1583
01:09:30.699 --> 01:09:32.899
Also, I saw your face getting livid when I said
1584
01:09:32.920 --> 01:09:34.539
a couple of things and Phillip was like, yeah, I
1585
01:09:34.560 --> 01:09:35.779
think that's a good way to do it.
1586
01:09:35.979 --> 01:09:39.739
You were scrambling for time. Absolutely. You were turning on
1587
01:09:39.779 --> 01:09:42.789
the parenting performance of a lifetime. It was unbelievable.
1588
01:09:42.829 --> 01:09:43.149
Yeah.
1589
01:09:44.229 --> 01:09:45.949
I really took it up a few notches.
1590
01:09:46.250 --> 01:09:49.300
It was genuinely, it was like, watching you describe parenting
1591
01:09:49.319 --> 01:09:52.149
was like watching a Pele describe his best goals. It
1592
01:09:52.189 --> 01:09:52.949
was unbelievable.
1593
01:09:55.550 --> 01:09:56.189
Oh dear.
1594
01:09:56.210 --> 01:09:58.390
But that was great though. She's so, so interesting. You've
1595
01:09:58.430 --> 01:10:00.270
read the book, Lou, my wife's read the book and
1596
01:10:00.310 --> 01:10:02.130
I've read bits of it. And Lou has repeated that
1597
01:10:02.170 --> 01:10:03.750
book at me to the point where I felt like
1598
01:10:03.770 --> 01:10:06.989
I've listened to the audio book, weirdly read by my wife.
1599
01:10:07.210 --> 01:10:09.350
And I know that Phillip is like quite zen and
1600
01:10:09.649 --> 01:10:11.609
a therapist and she doesn't know about all kids need
1601
01:10:11.630 --> 01:10:13.949
to be engaged with. They've learned that behavior before, but
1602
01:10:13.970 --> 01:10:15.409
sometimes I do look at a kid and think you're
1603
01:10:15.430 --> 01:10:16.350
a fucking prick, mate.
1604
01:10:17.970 --> 01:10:20.850
Do you know what I mean? Not mine, not my own, but.
1605
01:10:20.789 --> 01:10:22.829
Some kids you look at and that's the type of
1606
01:10:22.869 --> 01:10:25.069
kids that I think you cannot engage with.
1607
01:10:26.210 --> 01:10:27.979
Rob, I need to ask you what we're going to do.
1608
01:10:28.020 --> 01:10:29.260
What's your views on the title?
1609
01:10:29.800 --> 01:10:32.380
I mean, I totally get what she's saying. I don't
1610
01:10:32.399 --> 01:10:33.520
feel like we moan about our kids.
1611
01:10:33.560 --> 01:10:34.939
It's more about our own.
1612
01:10:34.960 --> 01:10:38.680
We don't ever blame our children in this podcast, but
1613
01:10:38.739 --> 01:10:41.420
now I am conflicted whether it is a bad image
1614
01:10:41.460 --> 01:10:44.750
that as the children grow older and they go like, oh,
1615
01:10:44.789 --> 01:10:46.550
I heard about your dad moaning about you on a
1616
01:10:46.590 --> 01:10:48.270
podcast that my mum and dad listen to.
1617
01:10:48.510 --> 01:10:49.670
Imagine hearing that at school.
1618
01:10:49.909 --> 01:10:50.329
Yeah.
1619
01:10:50.510 --> 01:10:51.770
But then if you don't talk about our kids, what
1620
01:10:51.789 --> 01:10:52.409
are we going to do?
1621
01:10:52.670 --> 01:10:55.760
I would argue that, and I think, this is true,
1622
01:10:55.800 --> 01:10:58.079
that listening to the podcast. And I think we're very
1623
01:10:58.140 --> 01:10:58.800
careful with that.
1624
01:10:58.899 --> 01:10:59.859
Also as well, then.
1625
01:10:59.739 --> 01:11:02.039
There's the argument that how much you talk about them
1626
01:11:02.060 --> 01:11:05.829
on stage as well. And Jerry Seinfeld says that it's like,
1627
01:11:05.890 --> 01:11:07.130
it's a family effort.
1628
01:11:06.909 --> 01:11:07.569
To pay the bills.
1629
01:11:11.409 --> 01:11:13.810
But it's just, can we earn enough money through this
1630
01:11:13.850 --> 01:11:15.210
that we can afford the therapy?
1631
01:11:15.529 --> 01:11:18.100
That's the balance, isn't it? What kind of loss or
1632
01:11:18.220 --> 01:11:20.479
gain would we get? But anyway, we'll have to think
1633
01:11:20.500 --> 01:11:21.000
about the name.
1634
01:11:21.300 --> 01:11:25.029
Anyway, thanks to Philippa. Philippa Perry's book, The Book You
1635
01:11:25.069 --> 01:11:27.109
Wish Your Parents Had Read and Your Children Will Be
1636
01:11:27.149 --> 01:11:30.289
Glad That You Did is out on the 31st of
1637
01:11:30.390 --> 01:11:31.680
December in paperback.
1638
01:11:31.899 --> 01:11:35.180
It's quite interesting with all the questions we got for Philippa, Josh,
1639
01:11:35.899 --> 01:11:38.260
that you can definitely tell there's a weird split of
1640
01:11:38.340 --> 01:11:41.039
our audience for this podcast. because there was people going,
1641
01:11:41.100 --> 01:11:43.920
best book I've ever read. And some questions I didn't
1642
01:11:43.939 --> 01:11:45.359
get time to do was like, how do you deal
1643
01:11:45.380 --> 01:11:47.590
with a sibling of an autistic child in the complex
1644
01:11:47.989 --> 01:11:51.109
needs of that child? And I've got these stepkids and
1645
01:11:51.149 --> 01:11:53.229
all these really intricate family stuff. And then there was
1646
01:11:53.289 --> 01:11:57.310
also people that said, fuck off Beckett, too fed. So
1647
01:11:57.489 --> 01:12:00.439
I just don't know an Instagram account that has these
1648
01:12:00.680 --> 01:12:05.039
worlds colliding. It's like, it's mental. It's like Oasis supporting
1649
01:12:05.060 --> 01:12:06.319
Michael Bublé at Wembley.
1650
01:12:06.359 --> 01:12:08.960
Can you imagine? The queue for the bar.
1651
01:12:09.600 --> 01:12:11.510
Yeah, so anyway, thank you for all your questions. Sorry
1652
01:12:11.520 --> 01:12:12.189
we didn't get through them.
1653
01:12:12.210 --> 01:12:13.949
Sorry we didn't get through them. Hopefully we'll try and
1654
01:12:13.989 --> 01:12:16.810
get Philip back. I think we have to change the
1655
01:12:16.850 --> 01:12:17.529
name before.
1656
01:12:17.310 --> 01:12:18.689
That, though. Right. Right.
1657
01:12:19.090 --> 01:12:19.750
See you next week.
1658
01:12:20.090 --> 01:12:20.689
Cheers, bye.