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In the fall of twenty eighteen, deep in the Idaho Wilderness,
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a seasoned outdoors woman vanished from a remote hunting camp.
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Connie Johnson had decades of that country experience. For her,
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the wilderness wasn't just a place to visit, it was
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a way of life. One October morning, the hunting party
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returned and Connie was nowhere to be found. That was
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the beginning of a mystery that remains unsolved today. I'm Danielle,
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I'm Megan, and this is off the Trails. All right.
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I feel like it's been a long time since we recorded.
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When did we record last? I don't know what today is. Okay,
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that's perfect. Life is a blur lately. Hmmm for the
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both of us.
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I know, so I don't remember it was last week
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at some point I just couldn't tell you when.
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Okay. All right, So we are moving into crunch season
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for me work wise, Megan personal wise's moving again, and
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we choose to do a thousand episodes for the show
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in October. Just all in October. No, we like to
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torture ourselves, and here we are. It's gonna be painful. Yeah, Well,
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everyone is.
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Looking forward to October and enjoying fall and fall festivities.
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Danielle and I are crying a lot. Yeah, probably, But
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I do want to say that if you are not
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on Patreon, we are going to be doing an episode
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for our Backpackers Tier in the next few days where
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we're going to be going over some pretty harsh reviews.
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You know, because when you already have pretty low confidence,
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the best way to address that is to just make
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it worse.
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Just lean into it, yeah.
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Just lean into it, let us and just remind ourselves
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what people dislike about us.
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Yes, and with that, we do really appreciate constructive feedback,
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Like we have gotten a lot of people reach out
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about specific things or just positive feedback, and obviously we
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love and appreciate that.
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That constructive feedback is not included in these bad reviews
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that will be going over the reviews were going over
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our ones where people like we're getting called losers.
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There's nothing constructive about that. What about the one that
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said that they would not want to hang out with
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us in real life? Yep, that one's in there.
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So if you want to laugh with us, if you
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want to see us potentially cry a little bit, to
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join us on Patreon and listen to this very special
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episode that we'll be coming out soon.
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It will be special. Oh boy. Speaking of Patreon, we
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do have two new subscribers from this past week, Middy
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and Ashley, so thank you and you have this weird
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next episode to look forward to. Welcome, Welcome. Also new
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for today's episode. At the end of the episode, I'm
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going to share what I learned when I went on
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a side quest research rabbit hole. Usually I just keep
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that information myself because I'm like, Wow, I just lost
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an hour on something that is not applicable to this
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story or my life. So but today I'm actually going
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to share this at the end of the episode because
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it's about when the University of New Hampshire head real
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mountain lions as mascots. Oh uh what Yeah, So I
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will explain how my brain went from researching a disappearance
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in Idaho to college mascots in New Hampshire. But both
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save them for the end. So if people want to
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dip out and not hear about that, they're welcome to.
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All right, Well, I'm glad that I'm stuck here with
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you because I'm actually I'm curious and I will be
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hanging till the end to hear.
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This, it's crazy. Okay. So for today's story to understand
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how someone can just vanish in an area, obviously setting
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the scene is important. So you have to picture this area,
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which is the Cellway bitter Root Wilderness, and this area
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straddles the Idaho Montana border, and it's part of the
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massive nez Pers, Clearwater and bitter Root National Forests. Some
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of the names they get hyphens, they're so long.
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I know in an earlier episode when the setting was
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also in the bitter Roots, and I did a location profile,
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and I think I made a joke like take a
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shot for every time I say the word bitter Root,
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and it had to have been like fifteen times that
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it was mentioned.
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Yeah, I kept this brief, but it's tough. So it
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covers over one point three million acres, making it one
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of the largest designated wilderness areas in the lower forty eight. Basically,
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no roads, no motorized equipment out there. The only real
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practical ways to get out there are by foot or
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on horse. And once you get out there, if you
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run into trouble, help is not minutes away, but it's
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going to be hours, potentially even days, depending on where
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you are so that's always something to keep in mind.
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I think this is rugged train jagged granite peaks, the
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log pole pine trees, and the dense fur forest. So
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they lodge pole yeah, did I say log pole? Yeah?
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Log pole logs so up there with the pines, there
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are also beautiful alpine lakes and rivers that are cold, cold, cold,
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even in the summer. Elevation ranges from one hundred feet
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in the canyons to nearly ten thousand feet in the peaks.
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Summers here can be dangerously hot, but by October nights
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are already dipping below freezing and even in October you're
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gonna start seeing snow dusting like the higher elevations, and
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the potential for messier storms are definitely out there. As
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for a wildlife, this is a big predator area. Large
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predator I supposed to like quantity big. I don't know
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why I felt I had to clarify. So people love
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to hunt in this area, but there is a chance
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that someone might be hunting you as well. If you're
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out there in this area, there are wolves, cougars, and
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black bears, and if you're lucky or unlucky, depending on
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the distance you are spotting this, you might spot a
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grizzly This isn't there like home turf, but they may
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just be passing through, so potentially you could encounter on
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There are a few different kinds of deer that live here,
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along with elk and mountain goats and just the general
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variety of smaller forest animals. Connie Johnson wasn't a newcomer
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to the backcountry community, honestly, far from it. Earlier in
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her career in the eighties, she was a teacher, but
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eventually she found some that she could utilize both her
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teaching skills and her love of the outdoors. For she
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worked as a US Forest Service wilderness ranger at the
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Moose Creek Ranger Station. She was also active in the
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Cellway Bitterroot Foundation, so she was very dedicated to this
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area and the land and everything that went on here.
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She was able to combine her love of teaching with
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her interests in all things outdoors and wilderness. She spent
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a lot of time leading youth groups, running workshops, and
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guiding people through some of that really tough terrain out there.
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Her friends described her as tough, independent, resilient, and smart.
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Connie was the kind of person who really wouldn't flinch
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at the idea of living in a remote cabin by
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herself in the woods. She was happy to cook on
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a wood stove top, happy to go out and hike
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some of this store that a lot of people would
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be like, no thanks. By seventy six, she was semi retired,
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but she was still a fixture in the back country scene.
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She knew these woods, and everyone who knew her believed
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that she would know how to survive out there if
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she needed to, so in twenty eighteen, she was working
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for Richie Outfitters as a camp cook for groups of
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hunters in that area. They would do excursions. I don't
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know if that's what they're called, though probably not. Yeah,
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what would they be called. I don't know. We're going
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to call them excursions though I like it, and I
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think for someone who's retired but still looking to keep
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busy or have additional income, but also doesn't want to
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commit to a full time job, something like that is
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probably perfect because it's seasonal, I would think. And then
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depending on the schedule, I'm guessing she could probably say
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no thanks, I'm not going on that excurse. I don't know.
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So basically, Connie Conye would cook the meals, tend to
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the camp manage supplies, and she had the benefit of
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being able to spend time in the wilderness that she
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enjoyed so much. Seems low stress, low key job. In
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early October, Conyie was flown by I assume a bush plane.
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It was not specified, so I guess it could have
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also been a helicopter. But I'm going with plane into
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the area near Big Fog Mountain, which is close to
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Big Rock, Idaho. And this area is remote wild and
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like I had said earlier, practically speaking, you're only going
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to be able to take horses or hike out there.
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And if you've got boku dollars, I guess you could
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go out by plane or helicopter. I assume that's expensive,
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I would think so. The hunters had planned to leave
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base camp and spend several days deeper in the wilderness
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while Connie and her border collie Ace stayed back at camp.
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On October second, the hunters left base camp, and that
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would be the last time anyone saw Connie. Was she
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left at base camp by herself with Ace. There wasn't okay,
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so there was no one else that hung back at
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base camp. With her correct On October third, there was
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an attempt at radio communication, but the static was so
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heavy that they couldn't make out what was being said.
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And at the time, nobody worried, because radio service out
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there can be notoriously bad, just another annoying thing that
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comes with spending time out in that very remote area,
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so no one was overly concerned or concerned at all.
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But when the hunters returned on October fifth, Connie wasn't there.
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Ace was also gone, and as they kind of assessed
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the scene, they realized that all of Connie's belongings, her gear,
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her clothing, her supplies, all of that was still there,
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so she should have been there. And obviously that's a
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big red flag at that point. And I wish I
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knew more about, like the timing of the hunter's returning,
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or the expectations of what Connie was going to do
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in those couple of days while they were gone. I
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don't know what she supposed to physically stay at the camp,
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or what she planned to do some day hikes or
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exploring land snorkeling perhaps, I don't know. I would think
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that if they came back midday, it wouldn't be that
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strange immediately if she wasn't there unless it was specified
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that she was going to be there right, or.
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They got there and she wasn't there, and maybe at
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first it wasn't concerning, but then when they see all
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of her gear is still there, then that may have
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been a.
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Red flag them.
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Yeah, like, okay, so Connie and A's are gone, but
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everything she would need, even for a day hike is
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still here.
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Right. So the hunter search the immediate area of themselves,
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but with no luck, so they ended up reporting her
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missing pretty quickly. Connie was well known in the area,
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so when words spread that she was missing, people who
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knew her were very surprised to hear this, and a
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lot of people did kind of have the feeling though
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that if someone had to be in this situation, Connie
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had the knowledge and experience of what to do to
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handle herself out there. So I think it's a little
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bit of shock that she's missing, but a little bit
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of people had a little bit of reassurance. In the beginning.
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I think a lot of people figured that she must
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have been injured, otherwise she would have been able to
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navigate her way back to camp or at least got
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into a trail somehow she had gotten turned around on
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a hike somehow, So authorities launched a large scale search.
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Helicopters flu grid patterns. The Air Force brought in aircraft
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so they could use flear to look for heat signatures.
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Search dogs were brought in and dozens of people combed
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the trails, fridges and river banks on foot, but unfortunately,
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the wilderness and the terrain was just working against them.
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The forested areas are very dense, which blocks views of
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the ground from the air. The terrain is really steep, rocky,
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unforgiving if you're out there on foot. Temperatures were dropping
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and even snow threatened to erase any evidence or scent
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trails or anything like that that may have been left.
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For eleven days they searched, but nothing was found. On
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October sixteenth, the official search was called off. But then
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on October twenty third, there was a new development. A
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pilot descending to the Moose Creek Ranger Station spotted something
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moving on the airstrip and at first, as he's descending,
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it's like, I don't it's something on the runway. I
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don't know what. It was, just a dark shape, hard
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to make out. But as he got closer and the
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figure kind of came into focus. It was a dot.
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It was Ace. He was skinny, dirty, clearly kind of
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worn out, but he was alive and uninjured. It seemed okay, Ace,
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now lead us to Connie. So they did try that.
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They did, you know, obviously he was assessed by a
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vat fed taking care of whatever. But they did try
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and take him back out to hopefully have him lead
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them back to Connie. And there was no luck.
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Very very theory, but I suppose I'll put a pin
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in it until we get to theories, all right.
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So of course how Ace made it from the Cellway
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Bitterroot Camp to the Ranger station is a mystery. Obviously
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he did not share any of that information with anybody.
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So did he follow the trails on his own? Was
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he picked up by someone and released later? We just
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was what was the distance? What was the distance? The
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distance is about fifteen miles, so really not that far.
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00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:37.879
It was almost three weeks at that point when he
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was found, so I think he was likely in the
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area that whole time. So that's just my opinion. And
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I had read a lot of news articles, but there
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was one comment from I believe an under sheriff who
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was talking during the act of investigation or search about
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the distance that someone could travel. He said it was
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possible that Conyie was no longer in the search area
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because someone could traverse forty to fifty miles a day.
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And I was like, hmm, that feels like an overestimate
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to me, because you're assuming in October there's probably eleven
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hours at best of daylight. This terrain has been described
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as really tough, really dense, So she would have had
261
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:44.920
to be traveling like four and a half miles an
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hour to make fifty miles a day, which is not
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going to happen given the terrain.
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And we're also assuming she didn't have any supplies with
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her to help keep her.
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Hydrated, energized.
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I don't know if we know what foot where she
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00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:04.920
had on what, you know, just anything that would.
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Help facilitate a quick hike like that. Yeah, and I
270
00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:16.359
looked it up. The average hiking speed for an adult
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is typically two to three miles an hour, So obviously
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the top of the terrain that time is gonna go up. Nope,
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that'll go down, I guess. And I don't know. It
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was just such a weird comment that, oh, she could
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be out of the search area because she could have
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gone fifty miles a day, and I'm like, what that's
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00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:41.480
that would be impressive.
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Yeah, I want to know the hikers he's hanging out with.
279
00:18:46.319 --> 00:18:51.119
So again, personally, I think that Ace and Connie probably
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were within the original search area that whole time, and
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finding Ace kind of only like deep in the mystery
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of what happened to Conne. So before we get into theories,
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do you want to go with your theory first before
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I go through mind?
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Sure, I just wonder anytime there is a dog involved,
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I'm curious if something prompted Ace to run off and
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00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:30.200
she chased after him, which would cause her to not
288
00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:38.480
grab gear, she would probably just leave this base camps
289
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is as someone with a dog.
290
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Who means a lot to me.
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If she ever ran off, especially in a backcountry setting,
292
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I don't think I would take time to prepare myself
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00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:55.759
to go after her. I would just be going straight
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00:19:55.799 --> 00:20:01.039
after her. And if she chased him far and then
295
00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:06.599
got turned around or hurt herself, then that would obviously
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00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:11.359
cause her to not be able to make it back.
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Yeah, So the dog kind of is my thought as
298
00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:19.079
well as far as like what made her leave camp?
299
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Because I thought about that too, that if the dog
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00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:25.720
saw something and just took off, I would assume. I
301
00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:29.799
don't know any border collies, but I would assume that
302
00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:35.160
Ace was probably pretty good about staying around camp and
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00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:39.960
coming when called. But every once in a while, even
304
00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:46.119
a very well mannered dog, they spot something and they're like, nope,
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I have to get that.
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Definitely, my previous dog hunter, he would stay by my
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00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:54.279
side no matter what. But I had him out on
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00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:58.359
a walk one time and something got his attention and
309
00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:02.359
he booked it into the swamp and I'm like, oh
310
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:05.720
my god. The brush was so thick, the vegetation was
311
00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:10.720
so thick. There's wild animals out there. And we were
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00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:14.359
on a designated trail, but he went off trail and
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00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:18.680
I was just frantically asking everyone else on that. I
314
00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:20.799
was running up and down the trail asking anyone if
315
00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:24.119
they'd seen him. And I was hiking with someone and
316
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:26.920
I said, I'm not leaving this trail. I'm not leaving tonight.
317
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:29.759
I will stay here until he gets back. He did
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00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:32.480
eventually come back, but he had cut himself up a
319
00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:36.079
little bit from I guess running through all the brush
320
00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:40.440
but all that being said, even the most well behaved dogs,
321
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:45.680
if something gets their attention, they will pursue it if
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00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:53.880
they want to. And with Connie's knowledge and experience, it
323
00:21:53.920 --> 00:21:57.440
would take something like that. I feel for her to
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00:21:57.559 --> 00:22:01.960
bypass everything she knows about being prepared for leaving base camp.
325
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:06.160
Yeah. I agree. So even experienced hikers at any age
326
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:11.200
ken trip and fall, but especially as we all get older,
327
00:22:12.039 --> 00:22:17.559
a simple stumble could have devastating consequences. So if she
328
00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:22.039
had left camp for whatever reason following the dog, or
329
00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:26.160
maybe they did go off to get water or go
330
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:29.839
for a little hike, I don't know, but if she
331
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:34.400
had gotten far enough away from camp that she wouldn't
332
00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:38.920
have initially been found and something happened. It's very dense
333
00:22:39.039 --> 00:22:42.559
out there, and like you already said, with her knowledge
334
00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:46.720
and experience, Connie would have known the dangers of going
335
00:22:46.759 --> 00:22:53.200
off trail and would have needed a good reason to
336
00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:58.079
break that protocol and to deviate from the process that
337
00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:03.839
she knew so well. Yeah, a medical emergency is also possibility.
338
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:08.359
And reading some discussion on Reddit, other people interpreted the
339
00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:15.039
reports of the like unintelligible radio communion communication, what is
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00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:18.400
wrong with me today? On the third as Connie being
341
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:25.640
difficult to understand, rather than it being just static or interference.
342
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Like I had read it as the communication was unclear
343
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because of like the logistics of the communication, but some
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people took it as she was just not clear, they
345
00:23:42.599 --> 00:23:44.519
weren't able to understand what she was saying.
346
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Is there confirmation of them being able to actually identify
347
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:52.599
her on the other end of that radio, on the
348
00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:54.839
other end of those transmissions, or it's just sort of
349
00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:57.920
up for interpretation because of how it was worded in
350
00:23:57.960 --> 00:23:58.880
these articles.
351
00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:04.039
So I believe that it is confirmed, or at least
352
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:06.319
they were pretty confident it was her. So you know,
353
00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:10.279
some people on Reddit were hypothesizing that she may have
354
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:14.599
been suffering a stroke, which is definitely a possibility. But
355
00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:18.680
I would hope that whoever was on the other end
356
00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:20.880
of the radio would be able to tell the difference
357
00:24:20.880 --> 00:24:26.759
between static and interference or someone struggling to form words
358
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:32.279
or sentences correctly. I would hope, right, you'd.
359
00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:35.559
Be able to tell if someone was in distress versus
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00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:40.160
just static, right, a bad connection.
361
00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:43.480
And my other thought on that is, if she was
362
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:48.000
at camp with the radio and it was suffering a
363
00:24:48.039 --> 00:24:52.960
medical emergency, she would have been near camp when they returned.
364
00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:56.680
I'm not a medical professional, but I would not think
365
00:24:56.759 --> 00:25:02.799
that someone suffering a serious stroke or a heart attack
366
00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:06.240
or something of that nature would be able to travel
367
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:09.079
very far or would even attempt to.
368
00:25:10.160 --> 00:25:14.680
You would assume, again, these are we're just speculating here.
369
00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:17.000
You would assume that they would just continue trying to
370
00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:20.680
make contact over the radio, Especially for someone like her
371
00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:25.559
who knew that venturing out, especially after a medical emergency
372
00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:31.519
and one that didn't really compromise her cognitive awareness, she wouldn't.
373
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I mean, that's almost certain death to leave face camp
374
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:38.400
whereas and I don't know what kind of medical emergency
375
00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:42.240
could put someone in a place where they are disoriented
376
00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:45.160
or confused enough to venture.
377
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:47.759
Out and away from Yeah, I mean I think a
378
00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:55.039
stroke could. But again, typically motor function or mobility that
379
00:25:55.160 --> 00:26:01.559
is also impacted. Right. Another that is hypothermia. Even seasoned
380
00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:07.920
outdoors people can underestimate the cold, especially in those shoulder seasons,
381
00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:13.119
because those warm daytime temps can be deceiving, and once
382
00:26:13.240 --> 00:26:16.400
the sun starts to go down, it gets cold quick.
383
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:19.920
So if she had gone out not dressed for cold weather,
384
00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:24.480
expecting to be back well before it got cold, and
385
00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:29.359
either there was a change in weather, or there was
386
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:32.759
something that prevented her from you know, if she did
387
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:35.279
have an injury, and maybe it was a minor injury
388
00:26:35.319 --> 00:26:37.880
like a sprained ankle or something, but if you're not
389
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:44.200
wearing the appropriate attire, hypothermia can set in pretty quickly.
390
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:50.000
And as we know, hypothermia symptoms do include confusion and disorientation,
391
00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:53.680
so Connie could have wandered in the wrong direction, just
392
00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:58.000
getting further from camp and deeper into the woods. And
393
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:02.400
another thing that tends to happen with pel suffering hypothermia
394
00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:05.599
is that they may try and find shelter, and that
395
00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:09.680
shelter might be under a tree or around the hollow
396
00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:12.799
of like a large rock, and then it makes it
397
00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:17.359
very difficult for people searching for them to spot them
398
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:21.200
in these locations. Bears in mountains, bears in mountains, bears
399
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:26.599
and mountains bears and cougars do roam this area. But
400
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:30.200
there was no sign of blood, torn clothes, a struggle.
401
00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:36.079
And my thought on this is if a big predator
402
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:41.240
had attacked Ace, probably would have been the initial target,
403
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.960
would be my guess. And if not, whether it was
404
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:49.400
Connie was the target or the dog was the target
405
00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:54.400
I would expect that the dog would have injuries of
406
00:27:54.440 --> 00:27:58.839
some nature, but when Ace was found, I didn't see
407
00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:04.039
any reports of any injuries that you know, had that
408
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:06.440
were even in like the healing process. It sounded like
409
00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:10.640
he was just you know, kind of skinny, dirty, but
410
00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:15.640
it didn't sound like he had any scabs or wounds
411
00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:19.359
that were healing. So in my opinion, at least an
412
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:22.559
animal attack is unlikely. Some people flowed the theory that
413
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:26.279
Connie chose to disappear and just live out the rest
414
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:29.480
of her life alone in the wilderness. But she was
415
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:32.680
enjoying her time in the wilderness. It's not like she
416
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.960
wasn't able to enjoy her time doing the things she
417
00:28:38.039 --> 00:28:41.240
wanted to do. And her daughter and her friends just
418
00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:45.960
strongly rejected that this was intentional in any way. Connie
419
00:28:46.039 --> 00:28:48.640
loved her community, she loved the work she was doing,
420
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:51.559
and they just don't believe that she would walk away
421
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:57.200
intentionally at all. So what happened to Connie Johnson we
422
00:28:57.279 --> 00:29:01.359
may never know, and despite everything the air searches, the
423
00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:05.839
ground teams, the dogs, still to this day, no sign
424
00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:09.000
or clue of Connie has yet to be found. Connie's
425
00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:15.640
disappearance shook the outfitting and backcountry communities. She was very
426
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:20.279
well known, and she wasn't just a visitor. She wasn't
427
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:23.200
just a person passing through, you know, she was one
428
00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:26.359
of them. She was part of the community. So I
429
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:30.000
think that hits a little bit harder. In twenty nineteen,
430
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:35.839
the Connie Sailor Johnson Wilderness Education Fund was established to
431
00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:41.079
honor her legacy, and the fund support educators and organizations
432
00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:46.599
working to teach stewardship of wilderness and ecosystems and looking
433
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:50.480
to get more people involved in conservation. So I think
434
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:54.759
it's a beautiful tribute for someone who was so focused
435
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:58.039
on those things in her life. Yeah, it's very fitting.
436
00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:02.279
And as a side note, there were two other people
437
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:08.359
reported missing this same weekend as Connie in Idaho, which
438
00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:13.759
is unusual. One person, jose Mendez Morales of Tacoma, Washington,
439
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:18.599
was later found safe, but Terrence Woods, who was reported
440
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:25.039
the same day as Connie, remains missing, and the distance
441
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:28.920
between the two locations was about fifty miles. Terrence was
442
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:31.799
in the area for work from Maryland, so it's not
443
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:35.279
like he was even from here. So there's no connection
444
00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:39.599
between these two cases. Just a very strange coincidence, But
445
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:45.119
it is interesting how many articles or sources kind of
446
00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:48.839
lump their two stories together even though they are unrelated.
447
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:53.559
They just happened in close proximity on the same.
448
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:57.960
Day in an area where there is little forgiveness, so
449
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:03.480
it's not super suspicious for two people to go missing.
450
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:07.559
Wasn't he filming a show? He was part of a film.
451
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:11.960
Crew, and his coworker or someone who was there with
452
00:31:12.039 --> 00:31:15.079
him said that he just sort of ran.
453
00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:18.440
Off into the woods. Yes, yeah, so I do want
454
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:21.839
to cover his case. I do want to cover his
455
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:26.000
case in full, but it's a strange one. Yeah, all right,
456
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:31.279
So now for the side quest that no one asked for,
457
00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:34.720
but I'm about to deliver. So while looking up what
458
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:38.599
animals live in Idaho, I saw that cougars were on
459
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:41.839
the list, and then I started thinking, it's interesting how
460
00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:47.519
it's a regional thing whether they're called cougars or mountain
461
00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:50.640
lions or pumas because they're on the same animal yep.
462
00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:55.640
And then I was thinking, well, what is wildcat refer to?
463
00:31:56.200 --> 00:32:00.839
It's got to be like the same situation where it's
464
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:04.799
something I already know, but we just call it different things.
465
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:10.960
And because the University of New Hampshire's mascot is a wildcat,
466
00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:15.440
and in some images it looks like a mountain lion,
467
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:19.519
but there is a more cartoony version that I think
468
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:24.359
looks like a gray coyote, not anything cat like at all. Actually,
469
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:28.160
but wildcat is another term for bobcat, which I think
470
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:33.079
around here I've always heard just bobcat, not wildcat. Yeah,
471
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:37.039
I've only heard bobcat as well. So then in my brain,
472
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:40.559
we're in my brain today, guys, if you and Age's
473
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:44.000
mascot is actually a bobcat. I started thinking about the
474
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:47.920
statue that is on campus and I was like, what
475
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:50.640
does that tail look like? Is it a small bobcat
476
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:52.039
tail or is it a big tail?
477
00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:58.599
Did they make this statue anatomically correct with just a
478
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:02.279
little bobcat a little bobtail they did.
479
00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:05.559
I think the tail's a little bit bigger than I
480
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:12.319
would have if I were this artist, would have given
481
00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:14.640
a bob yet, but it's still a little, just little tail.
482
00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:17.319
Did you go to U and ah, yes, okay, I
483
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:23.000
should know that. Also. I am a ticket season holders
484
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:28.720
of hockey, of hockey, of men's hockey. You are, that's right,
485
00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:30.960
which I think is a weird thing that people are
486
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:33.319
probably like, that's not something I would expect Daniel will
487
00:33:33.319 --> 00:33:36.440
go do definitely not on the Bengo card. Well again,
488
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:38.680
as I was like thinking about this statue, I ended
489
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:44.240
up on the UNH website and the thing about their mascots.
490
00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:49.920
So back in nineteen twenty six, students in clubs voted
491
00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:56.279
on what would be their new athletic identity. Other front
492
00:33:56.400 --> 00:34:02.680
runners were bulls, huskies, eagles, and apparently unicorn was even
493
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:04.960
in the mix. I don't know if there's any colleges
494
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:07.119
that have a unicorn as a mascot.
495
00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:10.280
It's not very intimidating, and I feel like mascots are
496
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:14.360
supposed to have that intimidation factor when it comes to
497
00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:16.079
the sports side of things.
498
00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:18.800
Could you imagine the un AH unicorns.
499
00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:21.960
I kind of like the sound of it, though it
500
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:26.840
definitely sounds better than it looks.
501
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:31.840
I don't know, yes, yep. So in the end, the
502
00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:35.280
wildcat was the choice, and part of the reason they
503
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:41.239
picked a wildcat was because bobcats are like small and
504
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:45.920
aggressive and students felt like that kind of matched New
505
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:48.360
Hampshire's spirit and I kind of like that. I'm like,
506
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:52.280
that's cute, small, but like you know, small, but mighty, Okay,
507
00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:57.920
I do. I appreciate that they also felt that the agility, cunning,
508
00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:03.039
and ferocity of a wildcat suited athletic teams more than
509
00:35:03.079 --> 00:35:10.239
something like the bull. And to be pragmatic, they also
510
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:14.559
figured a wildcat mascot was easier transport than a bull.
511
00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:18.039
And when I read that, I was like, yeah, picturing
512
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:22.519
a statue or some sort of like figure, some sort
513
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:26.960
of prop But no, they meant an actual living creature
514
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:31.360
that they were gonna be transporting. And I was like, oh, oh, yeah,
515
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:34.079
which it would have been really hard if they had
516
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:34.840
picked you in a horn.
517
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:36.639
They just would have done that thing where they getting
518
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:42.440
pretty horse and put a fake horn on a.
519
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:46.920
Pony with a horn. Yeah. So, between nineteen twenty seven
520
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:51.159
and nineteen twenty nine, they had their first live mascot
521
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:56.039
named Maizie. She had been captured by a local farmer.
522
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:02.360
I'm just making face at all of these things. Then
523
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:06.119
came Bozo or Skippy. I don't know where the two
524
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:11.079
names come from because they're very not the same, but
525
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:15.280
he came around in nineteen thirty two, and as the
526
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:19.760
story goes, he actually just like disappeared in the spring
527
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:25.199
of nineteen thirty three and students summer found him. I'm like, guys,
528
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:30.360
you just like just lost a bobcat, like on student
529
00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:31.559
housing on campus.
530
00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:36.320
I hope he escaped into the nearby woods and lived
531
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:37.280
his best life.
532
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:41.079
I hope so too. But I'm like, there are so
533
00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:45.920
many questionable things going on here, very much so so.
534
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:51.280
Next was the bobcat named Butch Watson in nineteen thirty four,
535
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:58.480
and he was living in a cage behind a a fraternity,
536
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:04.559
not a sorority, and he was actually stolen in nineteen
537
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:09.880
thirty nine as a prank. It was suspected that students
538
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:13.639
from Harvard actually took him, but of course the school
539
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:17.880
officially was like, we had no involvement of that. Don't
540
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:20.639
we don't know what's going on with that. That's your weird,
541
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:26.920
uh wildlife thing that you should figure out. I don't
542
00:37:27.079 --> 00:37:32.639
trust Harvard and all those other fancy schools, and they're
543
00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:38.639
don't they have like colts or something, don't they I
544
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:43.039
mean probably cults but like praturnities, right, Like don't they
545
00:37:43.159 --> 00:37:43.360
like that?
546
00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:49.320
The Yeah, Like, don't they have these weird rituals? I
547
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:52.920
mean probably I'm just going to use that as the
548
00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:56.360
excuse as to why I just steered clear of colleges.
549
00:37:57.159 --> 00:38:03.199
Yes, those Ivy League schools are just too creepy. So ultimately,
550
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:10.760
Butch Watson was later found in a garage in Massachusetts,
551
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:15.719
you know where Harvard is based. Maybe it also written
552
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:21.480
on the cage was Harvard sixty NH zero. So sorry Harvard,
553
00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:23.639
but I think your students were involved. And also what
554
00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:28.639
sport did Harvard win sixty over zero? Yeah, I don't
555
00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:29.280
want anyone.
556
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:34.840
I don't want anyone from Harvard to.
557
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:35.199
Take any offense to any of this. I was gonna say,
558
00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:37.440
I don't want anyone who knows things about sports to
559
00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:40.840
take offense. And we're like, yeah, like Danielle, obviously that's football.
560
00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:43.960
We're not here to offend to anyone with this, with
561
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:47.760
this discussion. That's why I saved it for the end,
562
00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:53.000
because we are just going off trail hard. So then
563
00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:57.760
there was another Butch Watson, the second for a bit,
564
00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:02.079
and then after that for many many years they did
565
00:39:02.119 --> 00:39:08.039
get away from having a wild animal at their pep rallies,
566
00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:14.840
which I thought was great until nineteen sixty nine when
567
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:23.320
Fudge enters the story and Fudge was reportedly housebroken and
568
00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:26.599
just like kept as a pet by a guy who
569
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:30.119
lived locally. He's like, yeah, this is my pet, Bobcat.
570
00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:33.519
I'd love to take it to your football games on
571
00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:37.239
a leash. He would just bring it on a leash
572
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:42.079
to public events, which feels uncomfortable in many ways, especially
573
00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:47.239
for the Bobcat. Yes, I mean particularly for the cats
574
00:39:47.239 --> 00:39:51.079
in all of these situations. But I guess at least
575
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:54.599
this last one was probably treated better than the ones
576
00:39:54.679 --> 00:39:57.480
living with the frat guys. But luckily this was the
577
00:39:57.559 --> 00:40:01.400
last of the living as Scott's. They did move on
578
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:07.480
to costume versions. One is called wild Ect and that's
579
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:10.639
the friendlier version that I think looks like a coyote.
580
00:40:11.239 --> 00:40:15.639
And then there's Gnarls, who is beefy and more athletic
581
00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:18.639
and fierce looking that I guess looks a little bit
582
00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:21.960
more like a cat than the coyote one, but I
583
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:27.079
don't know if. If you're still with us, thank you
584
00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:31.599
for letting me Info dump all that useless information on you,
585
00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:35.920
but more importantly, thank you for joining us to discuss
586
00:40:35.960 --> 00:40:38.920
the sad and still unsolved case of Kandie Johnson. So
587
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:51.920
until next week, stay safe.
1
00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.399
In the fall of twenty eighteen, deep in the Idaho Wilderness,
2
00:00:03.399 --> 00:00:06.960
a seasoned outdoors woman vanished from a remote hunting camp.
3
00:00:07.080 --> 00:00:10.720
Connie Johnson had decades of that country experience. For her,
4
00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:13.199
the wilderness wasn't just a place to visit, it was
5
00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:16.280
a way of life. One October morning, the hunting party
6
00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:19.600
returned and Connie was nowhere to be found. That was
7
00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:23.480
the beginning of a mystery that remains unsolved today. I'm Danielle,
8
00:00:23.879 --> 00:00:38.920
I'm Megan, and this is off the Trails. All right.
9
00:00:39.359 --> 00:00:42.079
I feel like it's been a long time since we recorded.
10
00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:45.719
When did we record last? I don't know what today is. Okay,
11
00:00:46.399 --> 00:00:50.920
that's perfect. Life is a blur lately. Hmmm for the
12
00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:51.520
both of us.
13
00:00:51.600 --> 00:00:56.479
I know, so I don't remember it was last week
14
00:00:56.520 --> 00:00:58.280
at some point I just couldn't tell you when.
15
00:00:58.679 --> 00:01:02.679
Okay. All right, So we are moving into crunch season
16
00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:13.439
for me work wise, Megan personal wise's moving again, and
17
00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:18.079
we choose to do a thousand episodes for the show
18
00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:22.040
in October. Just all in October. No, we like to
19
00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:26.840
torture ourselves, and here we are. It's gonna be painful. Yeah, Well,
20
00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:27.840
everyone is.
21
00:01:28.760 --> 00:01:34.519
Looking forward to October and enjoying fall and fall festivities.
22
00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:40.480
Danielle and I are crying a lot. Yeah, probably, But
23
00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:44.799
I do want to say that if you are not
24
00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:49.480
on Patreon, we are going to be doing an episode
25
00:01:49.599 --> 00:01:53.560
for our Backpackers Tier in the next few days where
26
00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:59.079
we're going to be going over some pretty harsh reviews.
27
00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:02.439
You know, because when you already have pretty low confidence,
28
00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:07.439
the best way to address that is to just make
29
00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:08.199
it worse.
30
00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:10.719
Just lean into it, yeah.
31
00:02:10.479 --> 00:02:13.800
Just lean into it, let us and just remind ourselves
32
00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:16.280
what people dislike about us.
33
00:02:16.599 --> 00:02:21.240
Yes, and with that, we do really appreciate constructive feedback,
34
00:02:21.319 --> 00:02:23.520
Like we have gotten a lot of people reach out
35
00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:28.759
about specific things or just positive feedback, and obviously we
36
00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:32.400
love and appreciate that.
37
00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:35.280
That constructive feedback is not included in these bad reviews
38
00:02:35.319 --> 00:02:38.680
that will be going over the reviews were going over
39
00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:42.479
our ones where people like we're getting called losers.
40
00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:49.479
There's nothing constructive about that. What about the one that
41
00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:51.240
said that they would not want to hang out with
42
00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:54.120
us in real life? Yep, that one's in there.
43
00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:58.639
So if you want to laugh with us, if you
44
00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:03.000
want to see us potentially cry a little bit, to
45
00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:10.120
join us on Patreon and listen to this very special
46
00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:12.120
episode that we'll be coming out soon.
47
00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:16.360
It will be special. Oh boy. Speaking of Patreon, we
48
00:03:16.439 --> 00:03:20.240
do have two new subscribers from this past week, Middy
49
00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:24.120
and Ashley, so thank you and you have this weird
50
00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:30.560
next episode to look forward to. Welcome, Welcome. Also new
51
00:03:30.599 --> 00:03:35.000
for today's episode. At the end of the episode, I'm
52
00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:38.599
going to share what I learned when I went on
53
00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:44.879
a side quest research rabbit hole. Usually I just keep
54
00:03:44.919 --> 00:03:47.199
that information myself because I'm like, Wow, I just lost
55
00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:50.439
an hour on something that is not applicable to this
56
00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:55.360
story or my life. So but today I'm actually going
57
00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:57.360
to share this at the end of the episode because
58
00:03:57.400 --> 00:04:01.280
it's about when the University of New Hampshire head real
59
00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:07.360
mountain lions as mascots. Oh uh what Yeah, So I
60
00:04:07.400 --> 00:04:11.080
will explain how my brain went from researching a disappearance
61
00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:15.159
in Idaho to college mascots in New Hampshire. But both
62
00:04:15.199 --> 00:04:16.800
save them for the end. So if people want to
63
00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:20.319
dip out and not hear about that, they're welcome to.
64
00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:24.160
All right, Well, I'm glad that I'm stuck here with
65
00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:27.240
you because I'm actually I'm curious and I will be
66
00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:28.879
hanging till the end to hear.
67
00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:33.800
This, it's crazy. Okay. So for today's story to understand
68
00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:39.279
how someone can just vanish in an area, obviously setting
69
00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:43.920
the scene is important. So you have to picture this area,
70
00:04:44.120 --> 00:04:48.279
which is the Cellway bitter Root Wilderness, and this area
71
00:04:48.319 --> 00:04:53.680
straddles the Idaho Montana border, and it's part of the
72
00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:59.720
massive nez Pers, Clearwater and bitter Root National Forests. Some
73
00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:02.480
of the names they get hyphens, they're so long.
74
00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:07.199
I know in an earlier episode when the setting was
75
00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:12.240
also in the bitter Roots, and I did a location profile,
76
00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:15.319
and I think I made a joke like take a
77
00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:18.000
shot for every time I say the word bitter Root,
78
00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:20.680
and it had to have been like fifteen times that
79
00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:21.600
it was mentioned.
80
00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:25.800
Yeah, I kept this brief, but it's tough. So it
81
00:05:25.879 --> 00:05:29.160
covers over one point three million acres, making it one
82
00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:33.519
of the largest designated wilderness areas in the lower forty eight. Basically,
83
00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:37.839
no roads, no motorized equipment out there. The only real
84
00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:42.720
practical ways to get out there are by foot or
85
00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:45.759
on horse. And once you get out there, if you
86
00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:50.680
run into trouble, help is not minutes away, but it's
87
00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:54.319
going to be hours, potentially even days, depending on where
88
00:05:54.399 --> 00:05:57.680
you are so that's always something to keep in mind.
89
00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:01.959
I think this is rugged train jagged granite peaks, the
90
00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:07.959
log pole pine trees, and the dense fur forest. So
91
00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:13.279
they lodge pole yeah, did I say log pole? Yeah?
92
00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:19.920
Log pole logs so up there with the pines, there
93
00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:24.920
are also beautiful alpine lakes and rivers that are cold, cold, cold,
94
00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:29.680
even in the summer. Elevation ranges from one hundred feet
95
00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:33.240
in the canyons to nearly ten thousand feet in the peaks.
96
00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:38.319
Summers here can be dangerously hot, but by October nights
97
00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:43.560
are already dipping below freezing and even in October you're
98
00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:49.240
gonna start seeing snow dusting like the higher elevations, and
99
00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:55.040
the potential for messier storms are definitely out there. As
100
00:06:55.079 --> 00:07:00.680
for a wildlife, this is a big predator area. Large
101
00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:04.360
predator I supposed to like quantity big. I don't know
102
00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:08.240
why I felt I had to clarify. So people love
103
00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:10.759
to hunt in this area, but there is a chance
104
00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:14.800
that someone might be hunting you as well. If you're
105
00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:19.199
out there in this area, there are wolves, cougars, and
106
00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:23.600
black bears, and if you're lucky or unlucky, depending on
107
00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:28.279
the distance you are spotting this, you might spot a
108
00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:32.759
grizzly This isn't there like home turf, but they may
109
00:07:32.839 --> 00:07:36.879
just be passing through, so potentially you could encounter on
110
00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:39.439
There are a few different kinds of deer that live here,
111
00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:43.720
along with elk and mountain goats and just the general
112
00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:50.680
variety of smaller forest animals. Connie Johnson wasn't a newcomer
113
00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:55.759
to the backcountry community, honestly, far from it. Earlier in
114
00:07:55.800 --> 00:07:58.519
her career in the eighties, she was a teacher, but
115
00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:01.879
eventually she found some that she could utilize both her
116
00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:05.160
teaching skills and her love of the outdoors. For she
117
00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:09.800
worked as a US Forest Service wilderness ranger at the
118
00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:15.120
Moose Creek Ranger Station. She was also active in the
119
00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:19.959
Cellway Bitterroot Foundation, so she was very dedicated to this
120
00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:23.319
area and the land and everything that went on here.
121
00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:26.519
She was able to combine her love of teaching with
122
00:08:27.319 --> 00:08:31.720
her interests in all things outdoors and wilderness. She spent
123
00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:35.200
a lot of time leading youth groups, running workshops, and
124
00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:39.279
guiding people through some of that really tough terrain out there.
125
00:08:39.399 --> 00:08:43.399
Her friends described her as tough, independent, resilient, and smart.
126
00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:48.200
Connie was the kind of person who really wouldn't flinch
127
00:08:48.399 --> 00:08:51.279
at the idea of living in a remote cabin by
128
00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:54.559
herself in the woods. She was happy to cook on
129
00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:59.440
a wood stove top, happy to go out and hike
130
00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:02.120
some of this store that a lot of people would
131
00:09:02.120 --> 00:09:06.639
be like, no thanks. By seventy six, she was semi retired,
132
00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:10.600
but she was still a fixture in the back country scene.
133
00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:15.120
She knew these woods, and everyone who knew her believed
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that she would know how to survive out there if
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she needed to, so in twenty eighteen, she was working
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for Richie Outfitters as a camp cook for groups of
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hunters in that area. They would do excursions. I don't
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know if that's what they're called, though probably not. Yeah,
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what would they be called. I don't know. We're going
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to call them excursions though I like it, and I
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think for someone who's retired but still looking to keep
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busy or have additional income, but also doesn't want to
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commit to a full time job, something like that is
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probably perfect because it's seasonal, I would think. And then
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depending on the schedule, I'm guessing she could probably say
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no thanks, I'm not going on that excurse. I don't know.
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So basically, Connie Conye would cook the meals, tend to
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the camp manage supplies, and she had the benefit of
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being able to spend time in the wilderness that she
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enjoyed so much. Seems low stress, low key job. In
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early October, Conyie was flown by I assume a bush plane.
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It was not specified, so I guess it could have
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also been a helicopter. But I'm going with plane into
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the area near Big Fog Mountain, which is close to
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Big Rock, Idaho. And this area is remote wild and
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like I had said earlier, practically speaking, you're only going
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to be able to take horses or hike out there.
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And if you've got boku dollars, I guess you could
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go out by plane or helicopter. I assume that's expensive,
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I would think so. The hunters had planned to leave
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base camp and spend several days deeper in the wilderness
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while Connie and her border collie Ace stayed back at camp.
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On October second, the hunters left base camp, and that
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would be the last time anyone saw Connie. Was she
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left at base camp by herself with Ace. There wasn't okay,
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so there was no one else that hung back at
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base camp. With her correct On October third, there was
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an attempt at radio communication, but the static was so
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heavy that they couldn't make out what was being said.
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And at the time, nobody worried, because radio service out
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there can be notoriously bad, just another annoying thing that
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comes with spending time out in that very remote area,
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so no one was overly concerned or concerned at all.
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But when the hunters returned on October fifth, Connie wasn't there.
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Ace was also gone, and as they kind of assessed
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the scene, they realized that all of Connie's belongings, her gear,
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her clothing, her supplies, all of that was still there,
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so she should have been there. And obviously that's a
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big red flag at that point. And I wish I
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knew more about, like the timing of the hunter's returning,
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or the expectations of what Connie was going to do
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in those couple of days while they were gone. I
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don't know what she supposed to physically stay at the camp,
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or what she planned to do some day hikes or
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exploring land snorkeling perhaps, I don't know. I would think
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that if they came back midday, it wouldn't be that
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strange immediately if she wasn't there unless it was specified
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that she was going to be there right, or.
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They got there and she wasn't there, and maybe at
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first it wasn't concerning, but then when they see all
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of her gear is still there, then that may have
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been a.
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Red flag them.
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Yeah, like, okay, so Connie and A's are gone, but
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everything she would need, even for a day hike is
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still here.
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Right. So the hunter search the immediate area of themselves,
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but with no luck, so they ended up reporting her
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missing pretty quickly. Connie was well known in the area,
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so when words spread that she was missing, people who
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knew her were very surprised to hear this, and a
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lot of people did kind of have the feeling though
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that if someone had to be in this situation, Connie
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had the knowledge and experience of what to do to
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handle herself out there. So I think it's a little
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bit of shock that she's missing, but a little bit
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of people had a little bit of reassurance. In the beginning.
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I think a lot of people figured that she must
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have been injured, otherwise she would have been able to
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navigate her way back to camp or at least got
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into a trail somehow she had gotten turned around on
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a hike somehow, So authorities launched a large scale search.
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Helicopters flu grid patterns. The Air Force brought in aircraft
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so they could use flear to look for heat signatures.
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Search dogs were brought in and dozens of people combed
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the trails, fridges and river banks on foot, but unfortunately,
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the wilderness and the terrain was just working against them.
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The forested areas are very dense, which blocks views of
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the ground from the air. The terrain is really steep, rocky,
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unforgiving if you're out there on foot. Temperatures were dropping
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and even snow threatened to erase any evidence or scent
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trails or anything like that that may have been left.
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For eleven days they searched, but nothing was found. On
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October sixteenth, the official search was called off. But then
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on October twenty third, there was a new development. A
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pilot descending to the Moose Creek Ranger Station spotted something
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moving on the airstrip and at first, as he's descending,
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it's like, I don't it's something on the runway. I
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don't know what. It was, just a dark shape, hard
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to make out. But as he got closer and the
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figure kind of came into focus. It was a dot.
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It was Ace. He was skinny, dirty, clearly kind of
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worn out, but he was alive and uninjured. It seemed okay, Ace,
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now lead us to Connie. So they did try that.
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They did, you know, obviously he was assessed by a
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vat fed taking care of whatever. But they did try
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and take him back out to hopefully have him lead
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them back to Connie. And there was no luck.
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Very very theory, but I suppose I'll put a pin
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in it until we get to theories, all right.
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So of course how Ace made it from the Cellway
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Bitterroot Camp to the Ranger station is a mystery. Obviously
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he did not share any of that information with anybody.
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So did he follow the trails on his own? Was
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he picked up by someone and released later? We just
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was what was the distance? What was the distance? The
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distance is about fifteen miles, so really not that far.
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It was almost three weeks at that point when he
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was found, so I think he was likely in the
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area that whole time. So that's just my opinion. And
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I had read a lot of news articles, but there
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was one comment from I believe an under sheriff who
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was talking during the act of investigation or search about
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the distance that someone could travel. He said it was
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possible that Conyie was no longer in the search area
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because someone could traverse forty to fifty miles a day.
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And I was like, hmm, that feels like an overestimate
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to me, because you're assuming in October there's probably eleven
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hours at best of daylight. This terrain has been described
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as really tough, really dense, So she would have had
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to be traveling like four and a half miles an
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hour to make fifty miles a day, which is not
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going to happen given the terrain.
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And we're also assuming she didn't have any supplies with
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her to help keep her.
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Hydrated, energized.
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I don't know if we know what foot where she
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had on what, you know, just anything that would.
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Help facilitate a quick hike like that. Yeah, and I
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looked it up. The average hiking speed for an adult
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is typically two to three miles an hour, So obviously
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the top of the terrain that time is gonna go up. Nope,
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that'll go down, I guess. And I don't know. It
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was just such a weird comment that, oh, she could
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be out of the search area because she could have
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gone fifty miles a day, and I'm like, what that's
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that would be impressive.
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Yeah, I want to know the hikers he's hanging out with.
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So again, personally, I think that Ace and Connie probably
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were within the original search area that whole time, and
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finding Ace kind of only like deep in the mystery
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of what happened to Conne. So before we get into theories,
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do you want to go with your theory first before
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I go through mind?
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Sure, I just wonder anytime there is a dog involved,
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I'm curious if something prompted Ace to run off and
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she chased after him, which would cause her to not
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grab gear, she would probably just leave this base camps
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is as someone with a dog.
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Who means a lot to me.
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If she ever ran off, especially in a backcountry setting,
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I don't think I would take time to prepare myself
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to go after her. I would just be going straight
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after her. And if she chased him far and then
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got turned around or hurt herself, then that would obviously
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cause her to not be able to make it back.
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Yeah, So the dog kind of is my thought as
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well as far as like what made her leave camp?
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Because I thought about that too, that if the dog
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saw something and just took off, I would assume. I
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don't know any border collies, but I would assume that
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Ace was probably pretty good about staying around camp and
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coming when called. But every once in a while, even
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a very well mannered dog, they spot something and they're like, nope,
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I have to get that.
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Definitely, my previous dog hunter, he would stay by my
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side no matter what. But I had him out on
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a walk one time and something got his attention and
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he booked it into the swamp and I'm like, oh
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my god. The brush was so thick, the vegetation was
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so thick. There's wild animals out there. And we were
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on a designated trail, but he went off trail and
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I was just frantically asking everyone else on that. I
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was running up and down the trail asking anyone if
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they'd seen him. And I was hiking with someone and
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I said, I'm not leaving this trail. I'm not leaving tonight.
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I will stay here until he gets back. He did
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eventually come back, but he had cut himself up a
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little bit from I guess running through all the brush
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but all that being said, even the most well behaved dogs,
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if something gets their attention, they will pursue it if
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they want to. And with Connie's knowledge and experience, it
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would take something like that. I feel for her to
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bypass everything she knows about being prepared for leaving base camp.
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Yeah. I agree. So even experienced hikers at any age
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ken trip and fall, but especially as we all get older,
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a simple stumble could have devastating consequences. So if she
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had left camp for whatever reason following the dog, or
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maybe they did go off to get water or go
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for a little hike, I don't know, but if she
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had gotten far enough away from camp that she wouldn't
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have initially been found and something happened. It's very dense
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out there, and like you already said, with her knowledge
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and experience, Connie would have known the dangers of going
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off trail and would have needed a good reason to
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break that protocol and to deviate from the process that
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she knew so well. Yeah, a medical emergency is also possibility.
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And reading some discussion on Reddit, other people interpreted the
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reports of the like unintelligible radio communion communication, what is
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wrong with me today? On the third as Connie being
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difficult to understand, rather than it being just static or interference.
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Like I had read it as the communication was unclear
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because of like the logistics of the communication, but some
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people took it as she was just not clear, they
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weren't able to understand what she was saying.
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Is there confirmation of them being able to actually identify
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her on the other end of that radio, on the
348
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other end of those transmissions, or it's just sort of
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up for interpretation because of how it was worded in
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these articles.
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So I believe that it is confirmed, or at least
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they were pretty confident it was her. So you know,
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some people on Reddit were hypothesizing that she may have
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been suffering a stroke, which is definitely a possibility. But
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I would hope that whoever was on the other end
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of the radio would be able to tell the difference
357
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between static and interference or someone struggling to form words
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or sentences correctly. I would hope, right, you'd.
359
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Be able to tell if someone was in distress versus
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just static, right, a bad connection.
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And my other thought on that is, if she was
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at camp with the radio and it was suffering a
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medical emergency, she would have been near camp when they returned.
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I'm not a medical professional, but I would not think
365
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that someone suffering a serious stroke or a heart attack
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or something of that nature would be able to travel
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very far or would even attempt to.
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You would assume, again, these are we're just speculating here.
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You would assume that they would just continue trying to
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make contact over the radio, Especially for someone like her
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who knew that venturing out, especially after a medical emergency
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and one that didn't really compromise her cognitive awareness, she wouldn't.
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I mean, that's almost certain death to leave face camp
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whereas and I don't know what kind of medical emergency
375
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could put someone in a place where they are disoriented
376
00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:45.160
or confused enough to venture.
377
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:47.759
Out and away from Yeah, I mean I think a
378
00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:55.039
stroke could. But again, typically motor function or mobility that
379
00:25:55.160 --> 00:26:01.559
is also impacted. Right. Another that is hypothermia. Even seasoned
380
00:26:01.720 --> 00:26:07.920
outdoors people can underestimate the cold, especially in those shoulder seasons,
381
00:26:08.359 --> 00:26:13.119
because those warm daytime temps can be deceiving, and once
382
00:26:13.240 --> 00:26:16.400
the sun starts to go down, it gets cold quick.
383
00:26:16.480 --> 00:26:19.920
So if she had gone out not dressed for cold weather,
384
00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:24.480
expecting to be back well before it got cold, and
385
00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:29.359
either there was a change in weather, or there was
386
00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:32.759
something that prevented her from you know, if she did
387
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:35.279
have an injury, and maybe it was a minor injury
388
00:26:35.319 --> 00:26:37.880
like a sprained ankle or something, but if you're not
389
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:44.200
wearing the appropriate attire, hypothermia can set in pretty quickly.
390
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:50.000
And as we know, hypothermia symptoms do include confusion and disorientation,
391
00:26:50.359 --> 00:26:53.680
so Connie could have wandered in the wrong direction, just
392
00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:58.000
getting further from camp and deeper into the woods. And
393
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:02.400
another thing that tends to happen with pel suffering hypothermia
394
00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:05.599
is that they may try and find shelter, and that
395
00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:09.680
shelter might be under a tree or around the hollow
396
00:27:09.720 --> 00:27:12.799
of like a large rock, and then it makes it
397
00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:17.359
very difficult for people searching for them to spot them
398
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:21.200
in these locations. Bears in mountains, bears in mountains, bears
399
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:26.599
and mountains bears and cougars do roam this area. But
400
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:30.200
there was no sign of blood, torn clothes, a struggle.
401
00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:36.079
And my thought on this is if a big predator
402
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:41.240
had attacked Ace, probably would have been the initial target,
403
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.960
would be my guess. And if not, whether it was
404
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:49.400
Connie was the target or the dog was the target
405
00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:54.400
I would expect that the dog would have injuries of
406
00:27:54.440 --> 00:27:58.839
some nature, but when Ace was found, I didn't see
407
00:27:58.839 --> 00:28:04.039
any reports of any injuries that you know, had that
408
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:06.440
were even in like the healing process. It sounded like
409
00:28:06.519 --> 00:28:10.640
he was just you know, kind of skinny, dirty, but
410
00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:15.640
it didn't sound like he had any scabs or wounds
411
00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:19.359
that were healing. So in my opinion, at least an
412
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:22.559
animal attack is unlikely. Some people flowed the theory that
413
00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:26.279
Connie chose to disappear and just live out the rest
414
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:29.480
of her life alone in the wilderness. But she was
415
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:32.680
enjoying her time in the wilderness. It's not like she
416
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.960
wasn't able to enjoy her time doing the things she
417
00:28:38.039 --> 00:28:41.240
wanted to do. And her daughter and her friends just
418
00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:45.960
strongly rejected that this was intentional in any way. Connie
419
00:28:46.039 --> 00:28:48.640
loved her community, she loved the work she was doing,
420
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:51.559
and they just don't believe that she would walk away
421
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:57.200
intentionally at all. So what happened to Connie Johnson we
422
00:28:57.279 --> 00:29:01.359
may never know, and despite everything the air searches, the
423
00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:05.839
ground teams, the dogs, still to this day, no sign
424
00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:09.000
or clue of Connie has yet to be found. Connie's
425
00:29:09.000 --> 00:29:15.640
disappearance shook the outfitting and backcountry communities. She was very
426
00:29:15.680 --> 00:29:20.279
well known, and she wasn't just a visitor. She wasn't
427
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:23.200
just a person passing through, you know, she was one
428
00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:26.359
of them. She was part of the community. So I
429
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:30.000
think that hits a little bit harder. In twenty nineteen,
430
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:35.839
the Connie Sailor Johnson Wilderness Education Fund was established to
431
00:29:35.960 --> 00:29:41.079
honor her legacy, and the fund support educators and organizations
432
00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:46.599
working to teach stewardship of wilderness and ecosystems and looking
433
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:50.480
to get more people involved in conservation. So I think
434
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:54.759
it's a beautiful tribute for someone who was so focused
435
00:29:54.799 --> 00:29:58.039
on those things in her life. Yeah, it's very fitting.
436
00:29:58.680 --> 00:30:02.279
And as a side note, there were two other people
437
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:08.359
reported missing this same weekend as Connie in Idaho, which
438
00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:13.759
is unusual. One person, jose Mendez Morales of Tacoma, Washington,
439
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:18.599
was later found safe, but Terrence Woods, who was reported
440
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:25.039
the same day as Connie, remains missing, and the distance
441
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:28.920
between the two locations was about fifty miles. Terrence was
442
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:31.799
in the area for work from Maryland, so it's not
443
00:30:31.839 --> 00:30:35.279
like he was even from here. So there's no connection
444
00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:39.599
between these two cases. Just a very strange coincidence, But
445
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:45.119
it is interesting how many articles or sources kind of
446
00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:48.839
lump their two stories together even though they are unrelated.
447
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:53.559
They just happened in close proximity on the same.
448
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:57.960
Day in an area where there is little forgiveness, so
449
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:03.480
it's not super suspicious for two people to go missing.
450
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:07.559
Wasn't he filming a show? He was part of a film.
451
00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:11.960
Crew, and his coworker or someone who was there with
452
00:31:12.039 --> 00:31:15.079
him said that he just sort of ran.
453
00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:18.440
Off into the woods. Yes, yeah, so I do want
454
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:21.839
to cover his case. I do want to cover his
455
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:26.000
case in full, but it's a strange one. Yeah, all right,
456
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:31.279
So now for the side quest that no one asked for,
457
00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:34.720
but I'm about to deliver. So while looking up what
458
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:38.599
animals live in Idaho, I saw that cougars were on
459
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:41.839
the list, and then I started thinking, it's interesting how
460
00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:47.519
it's a regional thing whether they're called cougars or mountain
461
00:31:47.559 --> 00:31:50.640
lions or pumas because they're on the same animal yep.
462
00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:55.640
And then I was thinking, well, what is wildcat refer to?
463
00:31:56.200 --> 00:32:00.839
It's got to be like the same situation where it's
464
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:04.799
something I already know, but we just call it different things.
465
00:32:05.119 --> 00:32:10.960
And because the University of New Hampshire's mascot is a wildcat,
466
00:32:12.200 --> 00:32:15.440
and in some images it looks like a mountain lion,
467
00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:19.519
but there is a more cartoony version that I think
468
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:24.359
looks like a gray coyote, not anything cat like at all. Actually,
469
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:28.160
but wildcat is another term for bobcat, which I think
470
00:32:28.200 --> 00:32:33.079
around here I've always heard just bobcat, not wildcat. Yeah,
471
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:37.039
I've only heard bobcat as well. So then in my brain,
472
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:40.559
we're in my brain today, guys, if you and Age's
473
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:44.000
mascot is actually a bobcat. I started thinking about the
474
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:47.920
statue that is on campus and I was like, what
475
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:50.640
does that tail look like? Is it a small bobcat
476
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:52.039
tail or is it a big tail?
477
00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:58.599
Did they make this statue anatomically correct with just a
478
00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:02.279
little bobcat a little bobtail they did.
479
00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:05.559
I think the tail's a little bit bigger than I
480
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:12.319
would have if I were this artist, would have given
481
00:33:12.359 --> 00:33:14.640
a bob yet, but it's still a little, just little tail.
482
00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:17.319
Did you go to U and ah, yes, okay, I
483
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:23.000
should know that. Also. I am a ticket season holders
484
00:33:23.160 --> 00:33:28.720
of hockey, of hockey, of men's hockey. You are, that's right,
485
00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:30.960
which I think is a weird thing that people are
486
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:33.319
probably like, that's not something I would expect Daniel will
487
00:33:33.319 --> 00:33:36.440
go do definitely not on the Bengo card. Well again,
488
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:38.680
as I was like thinking about this statue, I ended
489
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:44.240
up on the UNH website and the thing about their mascots.
490
00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:49.920
So back in nineteen twenty six, students in clubs voted
491
00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:56.279
on what would be their new athletic identity. Other front
492
00:33:56.400 --> 00:34:02.680
runners were bulls, huskies, eagles, and apparently unicorn was even
493
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:04.960
in the mix. I don't know if there's any colleges
494
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:07.119
that have a unicorn as a mascot.
495
00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:10.280
It's not very intimidating, and I feel like mascots are
496
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:14.360
supposed to have that intimidation factor when it comes to
497
00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:16.079
the sports side of things.
498
00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:18.800
Could you imagine the un AH unicorns.
499
00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:21.960
I kind of like the sound of it, though it
500
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:26.840
definitely sounds better than it looks.
501
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:31.840
I don't know, yes, yep. So in the end, the
502
00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:35.280
wildcat was the choice, and part of the reason they
503
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:41.239
picked a wildcat was because bobcats are like small and
504
00:34:41.360 --> 00:34:45.920
aggressive and students felt like that kind of matched New
505
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:48.360
Hampshire's spirit and I kind of like that. I'm like,
506
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:52.280
that's cute, small, but like you know, small, but mighty, Okay,
507
00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:57.920
I do. I appreciate that they also felt that the agility, cunning,
508
00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:03.039
and ferocity of a wildcat suited athletic teams more than
509
00:35:03.079 --> 00:35:10.239
something like the bull. And to be pragmatic, they also
510
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:14.559
figured a wildcat mascot was easier transport than a bull.
511
00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:18.039
And when I read that, I was like, yeah, picturing
512
00:35:18.159 --> 00:35:22.519
a statue or some sort of like figure, some sort
513
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:26.960
of prop But no, they meant an actual living creature
514
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:31.360
that they were gonna be transporting. And I was like, oh, oh, yeah,
515
00:35:31.440 --> 00:35:34.079
which it would have been really hard if they had
516
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:34.840
picked you in a horn.
517
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:36.639
They just would have done that thing where they getting
518
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:42.440
pretty horse and put a fake horn on a.
519
00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:46.920
Pony with a horn. Yeah. So, between nineteen twenty seven
520
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:51.159
and nineteen twenty nine, they had their first live mascot
521
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:56.039
named Maizie. She had been captured by a local farmer.
522
00:35:57.840 --> 00:36:02.360
I'm just making face at all of these things. Then
523
00:36:02.480 --> 00:36:06.119
came Bozo or Skippy. I don't know where the two
524
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:11.079
names come from because they're very not the same, but
525
00:36:11.119 --> 00:36:15.280
he came around in nineteen thirty two, and as the
526
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:19.760
story goes, he actually just like disappeared in the spring
527
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:25.199
of nineteen thirty three and students summer found him. I'm like, guys,
528
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:30.360
you just like just lost a bobcat, like on student
529
00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:31.559
housing on campus.
530
00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:36.320
I hope he escaped into the nearby woods and lived
531
00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:37.280
his best life.
532
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:41.079
I hope so too. But I'm like, there are so
533
00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:45.920
many questionable things going on here, very much so so.
534
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:51.280
Next was the bobcat named Butch Watson in nineteen thirty four,
535
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:58.480
and he was living in a cage behind a a fraternity,
536
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:04.559
not a sorority, and he was actually stolen in nineteen
537
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:09.880
thirty nine as a prank. It was suspected that students
538
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:13.639
from Harvard actually took him, but of course the school
539
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:17.880
officially was like, we had no involvement of that. Don't
540
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:20.639
we don't know what's going on with that. That's your weird,
541
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:26.920
uh wildlife thing that you should figure out. I don't
542
00:37:27.079 --> 00:37:32.639
trust Harvard and all those other fancy schools, and they're
543
00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:38.639
don't they have like colts or something, don't they I
544
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:43.039
mean probably cults but like praturnities, right, Like don't they
545
00:37:43.159 --> 00:37:43.360
like that?
546
00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:49.320
The Yeah, Like, don't they have these weird rituals? I
547
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:52.920
mean probably I'm just going to use that as the
548
00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:56.360
excuse as to why I just steered clear of colleges.
549
00:37:57.159 --> 00:38:03.199
Yes, those Ivy League schools are just too creepy. So ultimately,
550
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:10.760
Butch Watson was later found in a garage in Massachusetts,
551
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:15.719
you know where Harvard is based. Maybe it also written
552
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:21.480
on the cage was Harvard sixty NH zero. So sorry Harvard,
553
00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:23.639
but I think your students were involved. And also what
554
00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:28.639
sport did Harvard win sixty over zero? Yeah, I don't
555
00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:29.280
want anyone.
556
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:34.840
I don't want anyone from Harvard to.
557
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:35.199
Take any offense to any of this. I was gonna say,
558
00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:37.440
I don't want anyone who knows things about sports to
559
00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:40.840
take offense. And we're like, yeah, like Danielle, obviously that's football.
560
00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:43.960
We're not here to offend to anyone with this, with
561
00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:47.760
this discussion. That's why I saved it for the end,
562
00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:53.000
because we are just going off trail hard. So then
563
00:38:53.079 --> 00:38:57.760
there was another Butch Watson, the second for a bit,
564
00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:02.079
and then after that for many many years they did
565
00:39:02.119 --> 00:39:08.039
get away from having a wild animal at their pep rallies,
566
00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:14.840
which I thought was great until nineteen sixty nine when
567
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:23.320
Fudge enters the story and Fudge was reportedly housebroken and
568
00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:26.599
just like kept as a pet by a guy who
569
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:30.119
lived locally. He's like, yeah, this is my pet, Bobcat.
570
00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:33.519
I'd love to take it to your football games on
571
00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:37.239
a leash. He would just bring it on a leash
572
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:42.079
to public events, which feels uncomfortable in many ways, especially
573
00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:47.239
for the Bobcat. Yes, I mean particularly for the cats
574
00:39:47.239 --> 00:39:51.079
in all of these situations. But I guess at least
575
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:54.599
this last one was probably treated better than the ones
576
00:39:54.679 --> 00:39:57.480
living with the frat guys. But luckily this was the
577
00:39:57.559 --> 00:40:01.400
last of the living as Scott's. They did move on
578
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:07.480
to costume versions. One is called wild Ect and that's
579
00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:10.639
the friendlier version that I think looks like a coyote.
580
00:40:11.239 --> 00:40:15.639
And then there's Gnarls, who is beefy and more athletic
581
00:40:15.679 --> 00:40:18.639
and fierce looking that I guess looks a little bit
582
00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:21.960
more like a cat than the coyote one, but I
583
00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:27.079
don't know if. If you're still with us, thank you
584
00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:31.599
for letting me Info dump all that useless information on you,
585
00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:35.920
but more importantly, thank you for joining us to discuss
586
00:40:35.960 --> 00:40:38.920
the sad and still unsolved case of Kandie Johnson. So
587
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:51.920
until next week, stay safe.
