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For the Best Aerospace Era this is the mansplaining podcast.
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Here is your host Anthony L.
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Sealey
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Welcome aerospace enthusiasts.
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Here on Mansplaneing, I have often mentioned that early moment in my airline career when I first looked out on the south side of Hartsfield Jackson International Airport, ATL, and saw numerous airlines lined up on the runways waiting for takeoff This scene had a profound impact on me.
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I wanted to research the origins and history of the airlines that I saw.
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I also wanted to research other airlines that were long gone.
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This is something aviation enthusiasts can talk about endlessly.
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How about we do that on this Extra Section episode?
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Let's talk airlines with a man who has a true passion for airline history.
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Welcome back everyone.
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Jeff Lester Well, it's, it's great to be here with you again, Anthony.
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But great to be here again talking, talking airline history, something we enjoy.
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Before I introduced you, as a former radio DJ, a musician, and also a BNA legend.
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But I forgot to mention that you're also a big fan of the band Rammstein.
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Yeah.
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Uh, being from the South, you wonder how the heck I got involved in that.
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Um, part of, part of stuff when I was in music, and I was, you know, DJ-ing, played in a band, um, I like a lot of different kinds of music.
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And, and then music, I can paint a picture when I listen to it.
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And s- and a lot of times, the music I listen to, some form of aviation will come into it somewhere.
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And, um, a coworker, um, I, I'll leave his name out of it, but if you ever, if you ever s- met him, you'd never forget him, turned me on to this style of music.
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And I'm being honest with you, I'm not quite sure what style of music it is, but it's interesting.
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And, uh, they don't sing in English, and so y- you know, but you just have to, y- you, you have to enjoy it.
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And I think I was watching a video, um, on TV one time, and he was in the room, and I said,"Just who and what is this?""Rammstein." And then he just started sending me things.
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And what's that one song that I like a lot, Feuer Frei, which is Fire at Will.
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Um, y- here comes the aviation.
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You hear the, you know, the way the music drops, and you picture, like, Stuka dive bombers and stuff, making that horrible sound with the speed brakes underneath their wings.
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So yeah, if you ever meet me in person, you'll go,"No way." Definitely.
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But I do, and it...
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And I, and, and Anthony here can, is, um, can back this up.
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I do have a T-shirt from the band.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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I was very surprised to see you wearing that.
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I was like,"Do you know what you're wearing?" I did.
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I said,"Yes, I do." Well, let's get to why we're here.
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You're a big aviation enthusiast, and particularly a fan of airline history.
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The reason I wanted to have you come back on Mansplaneing is to talk about one airline in particular.
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But before we get to that, let's do like we did back before when we used to talk about airlines.
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Let's talk about some airlines that have come and gone from any era.
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Oh, a- a- and, and a lot of good ones, too, and, you know, just things just fall by the wayside.
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Trucking companies, car companies, shipping companies, airlines.
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Um, Ozark was always a good one.
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Um, they used to come to the airshow in Smyrna, Tennessee, with a DC-9, and for$10 you could get a 30-minute sightseeing ride.
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And one of the good things about that is Ozark was opening up a chance to get on an airplane for people who wouldn't normally fly anywhere.
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For$10, you could fly around Nashville for 30 minutes in a DC-9, and I took a friend of mine, it was his first ever airplane ride.
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We went to the airshow.
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He paid$10, and he t- got on a DC-9.
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It took off, and he lo- he sat by the window.
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He just said,"Wow, this is incredible." Um, airlines, some used to do that back in the day.
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Southern Airways is a, i- is another one, and who merged with, um, North Central, old Blue Goose up there in Wisconsin, uh, to go on to form Republic, and then Northwest got them, and everybody knows all about that.
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Um, Southern Airways used to fly to...
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One of the things I loved about old airlines, and the small ones are no longer around, even though they were getting bigger.
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Southern Air- Southern Airlines, Southern Airways, they had a Martin 404 that would land in Shelbyville, Tennessee, and another one that would land in a small town called Crossville, and it was regular scheduled passenger service.
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It would go Nashville, Shelbyville, I wanna say maybe Huntsville or Birmingham, and then over to Atlanta.
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My dad was We grew up on a big dairy farm.
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He was president of the American Dairy Association.
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Sometimes he had to get to Atlanta real quick.
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We would drive down the road from our farm to the Shelbyville Airport and put my dad on this Martin 404.
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They'd put on three or four boxes of cargo, some mail, and my dad from the rear stairs, and off they'd go, you know.
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Those are, t- those are the carriers I miss.
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Mohawk up in the Northeast.
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Bonanza out in the Nevada area.
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They helped pave the way for the airlines we have now, but sometimes how they were taken out of the game is not the best, but that's just the way business is.
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And we're fixing to discuss one that was, man, was really up and coming, and just- You know, the way of the aviation world, it, it, it went another direction, and took some good people with it, my wife being one.
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She was an employee of this great airline at one time.
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So that's, this If you sit down, when I retire from my job, I want to sit down for a week and, and, and catch up on every airline that's no longer in business from as far back as the'30s, when they had the small ones, to, to, to right now.
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You'd be amazed at the list, airlines you've never heard of.
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Big Apple Airways, the shuttles, you know.
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And then you had, USAir had the, was it the Metroliners, I believe?
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The old 737-200s, what they called, uh, Metroliners?
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Oh, I forgot to do my research on that one.
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I can during a break.
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Well, I know some airlines I knew from, you mentioned Atlanta, that's the mecca of air- Ah of the airline industry.
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Yes.
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I know some airlines I remember from my, when I, when I was growing up, one was called Kiwi Airlines.
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I think we've talked about that before.
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Yes.
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They were a low-cost airline.
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They weren't around for very long back in the'90s.
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Used to run 727s out of Midway.
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Okay.
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You talk about a white-knuckle ride.
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And another one, some people might be surprised to hear, or at least people my generation and your generation have heard this, Hooters Airlines.
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Yes.
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You remember that one?
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Yes, I do.
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Yeah.
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People might not know that existed.
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And they actually had small regular scheduled service, limited.
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It wasn't just sports charters.
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Uh, my nephew's wife was a flight attendant.
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She wasn't a Hooter Girl, she was an actual flight attendant on the limited scheduled flights.
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So yes, a lot of people don't remember that, though.
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Mm-hmm.
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You and I do.
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We've seen them.
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I bring this up'cause, well, Spirit just went under, so Spirit's no longer going.
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So air- airlines come and go.
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We've- Yeah we've seen a lot come, we've seen a lot go.
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But before we move on, I'm gonna ask you one thing.
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Some say that's your face on the tail of the Alaskan Airlines planes.
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Yeah.
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We need, we need to clear this up.
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Is that your face?
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No.
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If it, if it was, we would be doing this in a professional studio, Anthony.
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Yeah.
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Um, I have, I w- I work in the industry, and every time I'll be at the airport somebody will see one of the Alaska tails and go,"Oh, look, Jeff Lester's in town." So, yeah.
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And I get a kick out of it.
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I, I like it.
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And sure, you know, I, I wish that was.
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I think it's a, I mean, it's a household logo.
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You see that, and there's no airplanes around, you know it's Alaska.
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Mm-hmm.
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Great marketing, great marketing on their part.
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I wanna tell you about possibly one of the first attempts at a passenger transport using airplanes, and we're gonna have to go all the way back to 1914.
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I don't know if you know this story.
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Back in 1914, a company called the St.
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Petersburg-Tampa Airboat Line flew one passenger at a time across the bay for five bucks, which is about 160 bucks today, and the plane they used was called a Benoist Model 14.
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If you never heard of it, neither have I, but they were in business for, like, one season, like a summer season,'cause they would just fly people across the bay, which usually would cost...
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or, like, two-hour drive, but, you know, couple...
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like a 10-minute flight across the bay and get you there faster.
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Yeah.
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But I wanna get your thoughts on that one.
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Have you ever heard that story?
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No, I haven't, and I thought I'd heard of a lot of them.
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I've seen pictures inside of old planes that had, um, wicker seats in them, like lounge, like yar- long chairs that were, like, bolted to the floor, if they were even, if they were even bolted.
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Um, flight attendants were nurses.
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They had on nurse uniforms back then.
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Now, that, that story escaped me.
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You did, you did your good research there, but I can understand that because somebody looked at that, just like back in the days of the Wright brothers.
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Like, you know, and, and the Montgolfier brothers with the hot air balloons.
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They, they, they see a bird, and they look at the bird, and you go,"How does he do that?" It d- it takes him no time to fly from point A to point B.
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So somebody in that airline looked at that and go,"Instead of driving two hours around the bay to get to point B, if we have to haul them one passenger at a time, let's do that and make it a 10-minute flight with a headwind." And I, that, that, to me, that's another marketing genius.
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Mm-hmm.
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You know, you look at that and you go,"Yeah.
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Yeah, we can do that." That's, that's fascinating.
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Fascinating.
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And one passenger at a time, you have to think, there wasn't a whole lot of people in the world back then either, you know?
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You talk about a backlog now if you had to do that.
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Yeah, we're talking 1914.
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This is when I talk about the wood, wire, and fabric flying machines.
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They're not really airplanes.
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These are just flying machines, flying contraptions- Yeah, they were wood- or whatever you call them, airplanes at this time wooden wings hooked to wooden fuselages with, uh, canvas and, and dope glue on them.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Think about that, you know?
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Well, I got this story from the book The Airplane: How, How Ideas Gave Us Wings by Jay Spencer, by the way- Mm-hmm which I recommend to everybody.
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Yeah, he's a great writer.
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Now, 1914 wasn't the best time to start an airline, but a prime time, I believe, to start an airline was the late 1940s.
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There are many aircraft options that were safe and large enough to make a profit.
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And think about all the experienced pilots there were from World War II, and also the veterans looking for work.
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And I believe this is a time where your favorite airline came into being.
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That would be Piedmont.
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Yes.
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One of my favorites.
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Uh, at, at the end of World War II, you know, the passenger plane of choice, or soon to become a choice, was the DC-3 or the Dakota.
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You know, some people call it a Gooney Bird.
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Um,'cause you could, y- you could easily put aircraft seats in them, and the configuration's how you want it.
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Each airline had a different seating configuration.
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Um, American, um, boarded their DC-3s from the number two side.
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Majority of the carriers had a boarding from the number one side.
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And that's, th- that's a story in its own right about why American wanted them boarded like that.
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You should do a show on that.
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I won't spoil that for your listeners.
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That's a good one to, to research on, and that, the quirkiness of some of the CEOs.
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That's something you could do.
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But then you've got all this whole plethora of Um, m- military flyers that are looking for a job.
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Okay, here's the airplanes.
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There's what they flew.
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Let's train them in the world of the airline and get these planes out there.
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That's why they've so many, you know, DC-3s, and then you had the, you know, DC-4s and stuff coming into play, the four-engine jobs.
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And then, you know, on down the road, you had the Connies.
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And these guys have flown combat missions, so flying into Chicago in bad weather was nothing for them.
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They're used to getting shot at.
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So that's...
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Y- yeah, you're right, that was the prime time to, to, to get into that, you know?
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And then you, you know, Ford making the Tri-Motor, and TWA was, was big in that.
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And, um, it started a whole evolution.
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It, it started such a big time competition here with airlines.
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We can get you here faster.
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Orders for bigger, faster airplanes are coming in.
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We have the largest fleet of DC-3s.
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We can fly overnight.
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Some DC-3s were overnighters and had sleeper berths in them, like trains.
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Um, so then you had marketing people you had to hire.
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You had to get routes.
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COCAB, which is now the FAA.
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Uh, you had to go through all that governing body and stuff.
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And, you know, right at the end of World War II on, it's just been, you know, Katie bar the door with the airlines.
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And to coincide and to run with the airlines, you gotta have trains and trucks to get cargo and stuff from one point to another.
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We can get this truckload here, but we gotta take it to the airport because it's gonna go to California overnight, instead of, like, seven nights over the road or four nights with a train.
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But, see, all that works together.
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You know, um, the company I work for, we have trucks come to the airport, offload boxes, we put them on airplanes.
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So you have all that to go into it together.
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So, I mean, the, the, the transportation world, I mean, even shipping in some of the airports that are near port cities, it's the same way.
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Um, that's...
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If I could go back in time and be in aviation, that'd be a good time, because look how many groundbreaking things happened in just commercial.
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Also groundbreaking in military, but groundbreaking, period.
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You know, you see pictures of kids and their parents at airports seeing a DC-4 or a DC-6 or a Connie, and hundreds of peoples would come out.
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Because even in the f- the'40s and'50s, commercial was new.
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Commercial flying was new.
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Um, you drove cross-country in, what, 10, 12 days?
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Hey, this airline here with the new DC-6 can get you cross-country in seven and a half hours.
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And you look at that and just go,"How?" You know, coming up in the aviation world after World War II was phenomenal.
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I mean, when I was a kid, I used to go to the airport and just gawk at the airplanes.
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When my dad flew out of Nashville Airport, they had a observation deck on top.
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Uh, you'd see all kinds of So 707s, 27s, Electras, Martin 404s.
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Saw my first Connie there.
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And with all the developing and all the cool airplanes coming on, it kept people interested.
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And then you get to thinking about,"Hey, I got a good team of people around me.
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Let's start this airline." TWA, uh, Piedmont, Ozark, Mohawk up in the Northeast.
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You know, and then your competition gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.
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And,"Hey, we wanna get this group of people over here.
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I wanna get this group of people over here.
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Hey, we fly to Chicago in four and a half hours.
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I'll get you there in three and a half." You know, and then the golden age of aviation is born, you know.
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And, and it wasn't It was For lack of a better term, I guess, my wife and I discussed this a few times, it was a more glamorous style of, of travel back then, both for flying, working, and passengers.
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And it was glorified in the Hollywood movies.
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You know, Casablanca, the classic DC-3 in the fog.
00:16:06.068 --> 00:16:08.509
Look how they're dressed, you know.
00:16:08.578 --> 00:16:11.339
And it's just,"Oh, you work for an airline.
00:16:11.349 --> 00:16:12.639
Wow, cool." You know.
00:16:13.219 --> 00:16:14.818
And, and, and I still get that.
00:16:14.869 --> 00:16:17.568
I still work, you know, I still work for the airline, and I still get that.
00:16:18.129 --> 00:16:23.999
And they go,"Hey, man, how cool is that?" And, you know, it's got its ups and downs, it's got its hurdles.
00:16:23.999 --> 00:16:26.359
But I tell them, I said,"Hey, I've been almost 26 years.
00:16:26.369 --> 00:16:44.154
There's something good about it." So yeah, this, and how all these other airlines And some of them started off, if I'm not mistaken, Southern started off as a railroad and then became an airline You know, so you, it comes from that part of transportation.
00:16:44.845 --> 00:16:50.485
And you had CEOs that knew how to run a business, but also knew how to treat their people.
00:16:51.754 --> 00:16:55.424
And that's where we're fixin' to talk some about Piedmont, Mr.
00:16:55.424 --> 00:16:56.654
Davis comes into play.
00:16:58.075 --> 00:17:01.634
He was good friends with Herb Kelleher, and we know what Herb Kelleher was at Southwest.
00:17:02.674 --> 00:17:06.625
You know, he was in turn friends with Gordon Bethune, and we know what he was like at Continental.
00:17:07.625 --> 00:17:11.575
So, you could do a whole show, Anthony, about CEOs sometimes.
00:17:12.585 --> 00:17:13.325
I mean, you really could.
00:17:14.805 --> 00:17:16.845
Yeah, speaking of, uh, Tom Davis, that's who I found.
00:17:16.845 --> 00:17:21.115
He was the founder of Piedmont,'cause I know you're such a big fan about Piedmont.
00:17:21.115 --> 00:17:22.625
I had to do some research on my own.
00:17:23.164 --> 00:17:30.244
He bought a company called Camel City Flying Service in 1940, and later renamed it to Piedmont Airlines.
00:17:30.785 --> 00:17:36.474
And under his leadership about a decade later, that's when they, they became a commercial airline in the late 1940s, like you were talking about.
00:17:37.154 --> 00:17:41.855
But they had a different strategy than the, than the other airlines that were already established.
00:17:41.855 --> 00:17:43.664
They kinda served the smaller markets.
00:17:43.684 --> 00:17:44.075
Yes.
00:17:44.365 --> 00:17:45.734
And I know you wanna talk about that.
00:17:45.954 --> 00:17:46.305
Yeah.
00:17:46.325 --> 00:17:50.664
I've always been a fan of the airlines that wanted to s- um, serve smaller markets.
00:17:50.684 --> 00:17:53.825
Uh, your trunk carriers, they went to your bigger cities, your hubs.
00:17:55.105 --> 00:17:57.525
Um, Eastern, TWA, American.
00:17:58.095 --> 00:18:02.884
Where airlines like Piedmont, uh, Southern, Ozark, they served the smaller ones.
00:18:03.575 --> 00:18:18.865
My very first 737 ride was a s- Piedmont, a 737-200, that went from Memphis to Nashville, then went to Asheville, a small city up in the mountains, and eventually wound up in Hampton Roads, Virginia.
00:18:19.785 --> 00:18:22.154
Where the bigger carriers weren't, weren't doing that route.
00:18:22.184 --> 00:18:23.335
They would stop in Charlotte.
00:18:24.375 --> 00:18:28.315
Um, Ozark, Cape Girardeau, they flew to Clarksville, Tennessee.
00:18:28.944 --> 00:18:30.775
Even though the Nashville airport, they flew to Clarksville.
00:18:30.785 --> 00:18:32.045
Flew to Owensboro, Kentucky.
00:18:32.605 --> 00:18:40.174
You know, The CEOs and the people behind them and with them saw what the bigger airlines were doing.
00:18:41.244 --> 00:18:49.085
What, what about the little town over here in the Midwest, where the nearest airport's, big airport that somebody fly to is 200 miles away?
00:18:49.355 --> 00:18:59.734
We can get equipment to fly into these smaller runways, and these people that live in this area who wanna travel, they can drive 20 minutes down the road across farmland to get to an airplane.
00:19:00.484 --> 00:19:03.884
It may only be two or three flights a day, but that's more than what they got now.
00:19:05.173 --> 00:19:08.482
And we'll take them to Chicago.
00:19:08.732 --> 00:19:09.593
We'll take them to St.
00:19:09.603 --> 00:19:10.163
Louis.
00:19:10.742 --> 00:19:17.643
Or we'll take them to one of our other small, but yet a little bigger cities, to put them on an airplane to get them there.
00:19:17.742 --> 00:19:20.202
And that also enhances their, their experience.
00:19:20.202 --> 00:19:27.383
A- and it, it's gonna cost you, but it's not gonna be an arm and a leg, because back then, a lot of people didn't have an arm and a leg to spend.
00:19:28.252 --> 00:19:30.133
But they didn't have access.
00:19:31.133 --> 00:19:39.532
The airlines wanted to grow and grow and grow, so let's go to Smallsville, Iowa, and get them to St.
00:19:39.532 --> 00:19:40.593
Louis, Missouri.
00:19:41.833 --> 00:19:53.048
Even if it's just one flight a day, they had that opportunity And I always have been and always will be a big fan of the airlines that go to, that serve the smaller cities.
00:19:53.078 --> 00:20:07.729
Now today, some of the bigger airlines do serve some of the smaller cities, but these airlines here, like Piedmont, Ozark, Southern, Bonanza, grew expanding and expanding, but hitting the smaller carriers, and giving good customer service.
00:20:07.919 --> 00:20:14.548
Yeah, s- um, Piedmont got me from Asheville to Atlanta in no time, safely.
00:20:14.898 --> 00:20:20.169
Yeah, I'm gonna fly them again, even though you know yourself Atlanta had 30 airlines going in there.
00:20:20.909 --> 00:20:24.709
Now, that's how you build loyalty, and your smaller airlines knew what loyalty was about.
00:20:25.699 --> 00:20:28.709
And this, Piedmont would be the airline any of these small communities know.
00:20:28.749 --> 00:20:29.778
They don't know Delta.
00:20:29.818 --> 00:20:34.999
They don't know TWA, especially not Pan Am,'cause Pan Am, their market was international.
00:20:35.179 --> 00:20:35.538
Yeah.
00:20:35.608 --> 00:20:38.048
So, they don't even know these airlines exist, but Piedmont.
00:20:38.078 --> 00:20:38.868
They're right down the street.
00:20:38.868 --> 00:20:38.878
Yeah.
00:20:38.878 --> 00:20:40.638
I know Piedmont, you know?
00:20:40.679 --> 00:20:45.979
Yep, and you used to see billboards near airports advertising, um, airlines.
00:20:45.979 --> 00:20:54.378
And whenever you was in the Carolinas, from Knoxville all the way to the Atlantic Coast, you would see billboards advertising Piedmont everywhere.
00:20:54.509 --> 00:21:01.898
And Piedmont was based in, I believe, Winston-Salem, and, uh, eventually they had a big, they grew into a big hub in, in Charlotte.
00:21:02.739 --> 00:21:21.808
But when you built up your customers and your loyalty, and you said,"Fly Piedmont," or,"Fly, uh, Southern," people go,"Wow, they'll get me from Smallsville to Macon, Georgia in less than four hours.
00:21:22.058 --> 00:21:25.858
Yeah, I'm gonna give them a shot." So, it cuts down their travel time.
00:21:25.868 --> 00:21:26.788
They have a great time.
00:21:26.788 --> 00:21:29.259
Kids love the airplane, noses pressed against the windows.
00:21:29.278 --> 00:21:31.798
I mean, I know some adults, I'm the same way, my nose pressed against the window.
00:21:32.449 --> 00:21:39.628
And they get there, they get to visit family or go to the beach or whatever, and they come back and they go,"How was your trip?""Let me tell you how my trip was.
00:21:39.628 --> 00:21:46.439
First of all, I will fly them again." That's the whole premise behind the smaller carriers, and all the airlines want that.
00:21:46.959 --> 00:21:57.689
It was a loyalty program before there was points or anything like that, and it was all done through customer service, which unfortunately, a lot of things have gone by the wayside due to the bottom line.
00:21:58.328 --> 00:22:10.398
Bottom line's always been important, but these gentlemen and, and these women who worked in the early days of these small airlines knew you had to make people want to come back.
00:22:11.550 --> 00:22:15.671
Not just'cause you have a low price, but you made them feel like a, a human being.
00:22:16.230 --> 00:22:18.530
"Hey, I'm glad to see you on my DC-3.
00:22:18.540 --> 00:22:20.721
Can't wait to see you again." That's how they feel.
00:22:20.721 --> 00:22:21.691
That's how it goes.
00:22:22.171 --> 00:22:25.601
And that was the big premise behind the smaller carriers.
00:22:25.891 --> 00:22:35.740
You get loyalty from the Midwest and the farmland that's gonna fly to a bigger city, they'll always stick with you, you know?
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:40.280
And we're gonna provide that with the smaller carriers to get to the bigger cities.
00:22:41.060 --> 00:22:47.000
And, um, some of these airlines grew to be, uh, bigger ones.
00:22:47.020 --> 00:22:51.770
Ozark was decent size when, when they merged with TWA.
00:22:52.570 --> 00:22:55.961
Um, Southern had was growing.
00:22:55.961 --> 00:22:59.151
They had flights into New York and stuff like that and everything.
00:22:59.151 --> 00:23:08.121
And, you know, speaking of small cities, they would fly to Memphis from Nashville, but every now and then, they would have a flight that went Nashville to Jackson, Tennessee.
00:23:09.070 --> 00:23:10.790
Who flew into Jackson?
00:23:11.701 --> 00:23:12.550
Nobody did.
00:23:12.580 --> 00:23:19.161
I There's a, there's a airline today that resembles these old small, small city carriers, Contour.
00:23:19.901 --> 00:23:22.221
Contour will fly Tupelo, Mississippi, stuff like that.
00:23:22.560 --> 00:23:25.671
But Southern, I believe Southern used to run 404s, and don't quote me on this.
00:23:25.671 --> 00:23:26.310
That's a whole nother show.
00:23:26.911 --> 00:23:30.080
But, um, Con- Contour is following that.
00:23:30.421 --> 00:23:31.631
And Contour doesn't have a big fleet.
00:23:31.721 --> 00:23:32.490
They don't have big jets.
00:23:32.490 --> 00:23:35.090
They got RJs, CRJs.
00:23:35.090 --> 00:23:37.070
But they're servicing Tupelo.
00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:40.510
They're servicing Owensboro, Kentucky, places like that.
00:23:40.931 --> 00:23:42.510
So there, there's an important place for them.
00:23:42.550 --> 00:23:47.111
There, there's a, a, there's, there's a The, the aviation world's a big pie.
00:23:47.141 --> 00:23:48.111
There's enough for everybody.
00:23:48.611 --> 00:23:51.711
Just some people don't want to share it, you know?
00:23:52.040 --> 00:23:53.490
It is called competition, Anthony.
00:23:53.500 --> 00:23:54.990
You know, it's called, it's called competition.
00:23:55.381 --> 00:24:02.221
Piedmont, they survived a lot longer than some of the, the ones that started out s- um, small.
00:24:03.290 --> 00:24:06.570
And they grew to where they were flying to Gatwick out of the Carolinas.
00:24:07.111 --> 00:24:13.661
They brought, I think it was eight 767-200ERs, and were flying overseas to, to Gatwick out of there.
00:24:14.181 --> 00:24:17.830
Had healthy runs to Denver, New York.
00:24:18.201 --> 00:24:21.310
The Pittsburgh Steelers would charter them for their road games.
00:24:21.310 --> 00:24:22.641
I saw them in Kansas City.
00:24:22.760 --> 00:24:24.421
It was a Piedmont 727.
00:24:25.171 --> 00:24:28.892
Then you got into nASCAR gets into the deal.
00:24:30.566 --> 00:24:34.385
Uh, Ricky Rudd, Terry Labonte run the Piedmont car.
00:24:35.076 --> 00:24:38.336
I think Labonte won a NASCAR championship in that car one year.
00:24:38.875 --> 00:24:41.086
Okay, here's where your marketing comes in.
00:24:41.086 --> 00:24:42.506
Piedmont started off small.
00:24:42.506 --> 00:24:43.046
They're growing.
00:24:43.046 --> 00:24:43.786
They're getting bigger.
00:24:44.685 --> 00:24:47.685
They're big in the South, big in Orlando, Dayton, Ohio.
00:24:48.695 --> 00:24:51.556
Back then, NASCAR was popular.
00:24:51.566 --> 00:24:53.306
You couldn't get a ticket for nothing.
00:24:53.826 --> 00:24:57.155
Well, they put Piedmont on the side of a hauler, on the side of a race car.
00:24:57.556 --> 00:25:02.395
Every Sunday, it's 100,000 people are gonna see that car going around in circles.
00:25:03.135 --> 00:25:13.286
You know, the official airline, uh, of NASCAR, Piedmont, and they had a great, gr- great marketing, uh, campaign.
00:25:13.336 --> 00:25:21.145
They kept their fleet updated, and they would buy aircraft to work with their, wi- uh, uh, with their routes.
00:25:21.145 --> 00:25:28.395
They had the Martin 404, so you had the Fairchild 227s, the Hiller 27s, which if you look at it, you look at, it's the same airplane.
00:25:28.415 --> 00:25:31.425
Well, a little bit different, but they're stills designed the same.
00:25:31.915 --> 00:25:34.215
The F-28s, your Fokkers.
00:25:34.215 --> 00:25:35.935
737s, where were they gonna be able to go?
00:25:36.816 --> 00:25:40.986
Japanese-made commercial aircraft, the YS11.
00:25:42.385 --> 00:25:43.296
YS11.
00:25:45.026 --> 00:25:52.986
I mean, Piedmont bought several of those to fly them into places like Jackson, Tennessee, maybe.
00:25:53.046 --> 00:25:54.276
Owensboro, Kentucky.
00:25:55.516 --> 00:25:58.855
A, a dirt strip in north Alabama somewhere if they had to.
00:25:59.185 --> 00:26:02.316
Uh, they didn't, but y- y- you see where I'm going with this.
00:26:03.435 --> 00:26:06.256
They would see a route that they wanted to do.
00:26:06.276 --> 00:26:07.415
"How can we service people?
00:26:07.465 --> 00:26:08.796
What kind of aircraft can we use?
00:26:08.796 --> 00:26:13.205
What kind of aircraft do we need?" They bought a multitude of different kinds and spread them out.
00:26:13.205 --> 00:26:14.855
They had DC-3s as well.
00:26:15.736 --> 00:26:20.115
Um, y- gosh, it was a well-thought-out battle plan.
00:26:21.236 --> 00:26:22.986
Herb Kelleher almost did the same thing.
00:26:23.115 --> 00:26:24.496
That's why him and, and Mr.
00:26:24.496 --> 00:26:25.486
Davis were good friends.
00:26:25.905 --> 00:26:27.425
They kinda had the same mindset.
00:26:28.435 --> 00:26:37.526
But Davis is one who, a- a- among several, who, who not only plowed the ground, but he planted the corn as well, if that makes any sense.
00:26:37.796 --> 00:26:39.955
You can tell I'm from the South, ladies and gentlemen.
00:26:39.955 --> 00:26:55.645
But that's, that's one thing, I mean, I c- I could look at, I could look at a small-town carrier today and think about,"What would you be like in'51 if this person was running you?" Or,"I, I hope you make it.
00:26:55.645 --> 00:27:00.786
I'm pulling for you," because the world needs the small city carriers as well.
00:27:01.435 --> 00:27:02.385
We really do.
00:27:02.455 --> 00:27:03.246
We really do.
00:27:03.965 --> 00:27:09.145
Um, when I, when I retire, I wanna fly on some of them just to support them.
00:27:10.276 --> 00:27:11.435
Hey, let's give it a shot.
00:27:11.455 --> 00:27:12.226
Let's go Tupelo.
00:27:18.434 --> 00:27:21.694
Um, I, I hope that made sense what I was saying there.
00:27:21.694 --> 00:27:35.505
I wasn't trying to go in a round about way, but, uh, anybody who knows me that listens to this will know that I probably used hand gestures about 2,000 times, and nobody can see it, because it is something I'm very passionate about, is what we're talking about.
00:27:35.555 --> 00:27:44.994
And, um, my, my, my wife, I'll go and tell you now, she was a Piedmont employee, um, wound up at Continental eventually.
00:27:45.944 --> 00:27:53.494
And she'll tell you real quick, Piedmont was a great airline, and you won't convince her no other way, because there's no other way it was.
00:27:54.275 --> 00:27:55.285
It was a great airline.
00:27:55.634 --> 00:28:02.073
And, um- We know some people who worked for them about the same time my wife did.
00:28:03.222 --> 00:28:05.522
And, um, we can go into...
00:28:05.843 --> 00:28:08.012
They have an aircraft memorabilia show coming up.
00:28:08.383 --> 00:28:10.383
It takes Joan an hour to get past the first table.
00:28:10.383 --> 00:28:10.603
Why?
00:28:10.623 --> 00:28:12.022
'Cause the first table's full of Piedmont people.
00:28:13.083 --> 00:28:14.232
She wears her Piedmont shirt.
00:28:15.573 --> 00:28:25.952
I tell, I say,"I'll see you later" But Piedmont was a family as well, and I didn't know anybody that worked for Southern or, uh, Ozark.
00:28:26.803 --> 00:28:32.623
Uh, but I, I knew people that worked for Piedmont, and I'm sure the other ones were a lot the same way,'cause that's just what they were.
00:28:32.623 --> 00:28:34.002
It was a big, it was a big family back then.
00:28:34.833 --> 00:28:37.782
And, um, Joan has...
00:28:37.792 --> 00:28:41.563
I d- Anthony knows this, I have a lot of memorabilia here, and some of it's Piedmont.
00:28:41.573 --> 00:28:42.982
All the Piedmont stuff's upstairs.
00:28:43.873 --> 00:28:46.073
It belongs to Joan, you know.
00:28:46.173 --> 00:28:47.472
And you'll see some pictures later.
00:28:48.042 --> 00:28:58.323
I brought two of the models downstairs, and I, I had to sign them out and put a deposit down to make sure I brought them back Make sure they're clean, too.
00:28:59.073 --> 00:28:59.093
Yeah.
00:28:59.103 --> 00:29:00.353
Oh, they're pristine.
00:29:00.393 --> 00:29:00.653
Yeah.
00:29:01.133 --> 00:29:06.653
I'll share some of those pictures of those models in this book you have here on my, uh, Best Aerospace Era page.
00:29:07.373 --> 00:29:09.323
Yeah, I know we talked about the, uh, NASCAR connection.
00:29:09.323 --> 00:29:13.073
I think I saw a screenshot of Piedmont's, uh, the official airliner of the NASCAR.
00:29:13.073 --> 00:29:14.032
I would never have imagined that.
00:29:14.032 --> 00:29:15.823
It, it, they came from NASCAR country.
00:29:15.823 --> 00:29:16.623
That's North Carolina.
00:29:16.633 --> 00:29:30.423
They, they came- Yes from NASCAR country, but from what I know, NASCAR people usually like to take an RV and go from city to city, but I can see if there's times when they want to fly, they're like,"Hey, I've seen this airline, so I'm gonna go fly them instead of, you know, one of the others".
00:29:30.682 --> 00:29:30.903
Yeah.
00:29:30.903 --> 00:29:40.923
And also you talk about the DC-3 is a perfect kind of airplane to start with the short, the short routes between smaller cities that, you know, the larger airlines, like we talked about before, aren't gonna touch.
00:29:40.932 --> 00:29:42.482
You, you can land a DC-3 anywhere.
00:29:42.603 --> 00:29:42.903
Yeah.
00:29:43.133 --> 00:29:43.692
They were tough.
00:29:43.823 --> 00:29:46.292
They, they proved themselves in, in, in, in World War II.
00:29:46.883 --> 00:29:47.413
Definitely.
00:29:48.002 --> 00:29:57.373
And also, I think we talked about, you know, some modern airlines, I think Breeze is one, and I think that CEO looks back to airlines like this and like,"Where are the big boys ain't flying?
00:29:57.772 --> 00:30:04.093
I'm gonna go to those cities and serve them because they're not being served, and I'm gonna have a business there,'cause no other airline's serving them".
00:30:04.942 --> 00:30:07.532
So that's kind of a strategy you see over and over again, and it obviously worked.
00:30:07.532 --> 00:30:12.553
I've seen, um, Piedmont actually grow up to be the eighth biggest airliner in the US at one point.
00:30:12.553 --> 00:30:13.502
Yes, at one time, yes.
00:30:13.573 --> 00:30:14.452
That's hard to crack.
00:30:15.153 --> 00:30:15.573
Yeah.
00:30:15.942 --> 00:30:19.633
And they had good routes, a lot of routes, and carriers wanted them.
00:30:24.833 --> 00:30:36.482
And th-th-that was about a time when a carrier that was a little bit bigger wanted extra routes and extra airplanes, and went after somebody that was doing really good.
00:30:37.432 --> 00:30:49.242
And when the US Air deal went through with Piedmont, Tom Davis had already stepped away from the table, which he probably, i- if he, and, and everybody has to retire eventually.
00:30:49.663 --> 00:30:52.883
If he could've stayed in there a few more years, Piedmont might've lasted a few more years.
00:30:53.553 --> 00:31:08.012
But thi- things change, and, um, it's, m- sometimes my wife and I will talk about it, and she'll, she'll get real quiet about it and start thinking about stuff, because that was a great time in her life.
00:31:08.042 --> 00:31:16.343
Now she retired 30-something years in the business,'cause she went to Continental and stayed there four more years after the United deal went through.
00:31:17.022 --> 00:31:29.121
So she had a, I mean, we, when we got married, we can talk in acronyms that nobody understands And, um, w- we tried to get her on the air, ladies and gentlemen.
00:31:29.121 --> 00:31:30.810
She will not come do that.
00:31:31.810 --> 00:31:34.040
I tried so, but she will not talk.
00:31:34.050 --> 00:31:40.310
But, you know, she's, she's a good da- I can ask her a Piedmont question today and she'll tell me, if it's something I need to ask her about.
00:31:41.401 --> 00:31:46.371
But, um, it's, y- I, it, it's...
00:31:46.391 --> 00:31:49.971
When I remember when I was growing up, Piedmont was, was big time.
00:31:49.971 --> 00:31:51.861
I flew them several times, my dad did.
00:31:52.740 --> 00:32:02.641
And, um, when they ceased to exist as far as Piedmont goes, I, I thought it was sad in my own right because I said,"Dang, what's happening here?
00:32:02.641 --> 00:32:04.060
They're a great airline." Great colors.
00:32:04.161 --> 00:32:04.851
Loved their colors.
00:32:04.851 --> 00:32:05.881
Their color schemes were great.
00:32:06.971 --> 00:32:13.171
And then as I got older and got into the business, I learned more about how much more of a business it was.
00:32:14.131 --> 00:32:15.730
And it's, it's n- it's not g- it's...
00:32:16.490 --> 00:32:19.191
Customer service is still there, it's kinda hard to find.
00:32:20.211 --> 00:32:25.250
You know, you don't, you don't talk to a human as much anymore, and I, I, I don't like that, you know?
00:32:25.260 --> 00:32:33.941
But a lot of these, back in the day, they were based on customer service to a point, and I think, I wish we could go back to that, but I don't know.
00:32:33.941 --> 00:32:38.750
Can anybody afford to go back to knowing your pilot's first name and you're a passenger?
00:32:38.770 --> 00:32:42.361
I don't know if you can or not, because the world moves too fast.
00:32:43.070 --> 00:32:43.691
Moves too fast.
00:32:44.441 --> 00:32:44.730
Definitely.
00:32:44.740 --> 00:32:46.191
We're too busy staring at our phones.
00:32:46.961 --> 00:32:47.250
Yeah.
00:32:47.310 --> 00:32:54.240
But, uh, one other fact I came across, I'm not, I can't confirm this, but I saw it, um, on one of the Piedmont Facebook pages.
00:32:54.911 --> 00:32:59.691
Piedmont operated the first ever all-female flight crew on a jet airliner in 1982.
00:33:00.310 --> 00:33:01.201
That's exactly right.
00:33:02.250 --> 00:33:03.181
So that's- That's exactly right.
00:33:03.961 --> 00:33:09.423
The, the complete one, let me pull up my notes here, Okay.
00:33:09.794 --> 00:33:21.844
The Piedmont Airlines all-female flight crew, July 2nd, 1982, when Flight 328 from Norfolk to Newark marked the airline's first all-female flight deck and cabin crew.
00:33:22.973 --> 00:33:40.624
First flight, 1982, was Captain Cheryl Fay Peters, First Officer Rebecca Rose Schroeder operated the cockpit, alongside flight attendants Paula Lanier, Dolly Winnatt, and Cindy Perry on a Boeing 737-200, and they were known for using all-female cre- crews throughout their history.
00:33:41.584 --> 00:33:44.314
But that was a milestone, and we just passed that recently, July the 2nd.
00:33:45.294 --> 00:33:46.034
July the 2nd.
00:33:46.034 --> 00:33:48.713
And a lot of hardworking women in aviation.
00:33:48.723 --> 00:33:52.163
You're gonna hopefully hear in this not too long future, have two of them on your show soon.
00:33:52.923 --> 00:33:54.884
So, uh, we can talk on that towards the end of it.
00:33:54.884 --> 00:33:58.963
Uh, just, I'm going past, uh, I'm not a very good guest, am I?
00:33:58.963 --> 00:34:00.794
I take, I take your notes- You're a good guest and just manipulate them.
00:34:03.213 --> 00:34:06.213
But, but hats off to everybody that works good in the industry.
00:34:06.624 --> 00:34:12.273
The, the, the women who have had to fought, have had to fight and fought hard to get where they are now, support them.
00:34:12.304 --> 00:34:15.204
I'm not s- I'm not scared to fly with an all-female flight crew.
00:34:15.804 --> 00:34:18.844
No, there's something kinda badass about a woman flying a jet fighter, in my book.
00:34:21.503 --> 00:34:21.534
Yes.
00:34:21.614 --> 00:34:27.434
Yeah, definitely give shout-out to all the females out there that, in aviation Now, we've talked about this before.
00:34:27.454 --> 00:34:39.893
In the 1980s, the premier airlines like Pan Am and Eastern, they were struggling financially, and they went out of business from different factors like deregulation, like you talked about, the economy, and also just changing passenger habits.
00:34:40.793 --> 00:34:43.414
So Piedmont failed in the'80s, but why is that?
00:34:43.824 --> 00:34:52.423
The, the'80s was a big, um, time of, of consolidation, because you had the, the Eastern doing their thing.
00:34:52.514 --> 00:34:56.443
Um, TWA beyond the'80s with, uh, the American.
00:34:56.454 --> 00:34:58.043
The American got a lot of carriers.
00:34:58.793 --> 00:35:03.664
Um, it, it had to do a lot with, with con- consolidation during the late'80s.
00:35:03.664 --> 00:35:12.844
Mergers were common as airlines sought to increase efficiency and market share, and that's where we come into talking about earlier about routes and stuff like that,'cause Spirit's no longer with us.
00:35:12.853 --> 00:35:19.574
Well, there's a scramble to try to get those routes in and out of the Caribbean down there, much less the slots up in the Newark area, LaGuardia.
00:35:20.554 --> 00:35:21.393
You know, which that's...
00:35:21.434 --> 00:35:22.213
it's all...
00:35:23.173 --> 00:35:26.623
man, a lot of stuff goes on in the airlines where there's rooms and no, no windows.
00:35:26.653 --> 00:35:27.313
You know what I mean?
00:35:28.434 --> 00:35:38.193
Um, you know, fi- financial pressures, the cost of fuel, uh, m- labor, cost of paying your, your employees.
00:35:38.784 --> 00:35:39.833
It's never gone down.
00:35:40.253 --> 00:35:43.583
If it goes down, you're not gonna be in business long, you know?
00:35:43.634 --> 00:35:53.864
'Cause a,'cause a worker making$42 an hour in the airline industry now is not gonna take a pay cut because gas went down or anything like that.
00:35:53.864 --> 00:35:54.474
No, they're gonna...
00:35:55.034 --> 00:35:57.974
because their food's not going down, you know?
00:35:58.463 --> 00:36:01.643
So then, you know, you got those pressures, and maintenance pressures.
00:36:02.563 --> 00:36:07.353
Uh, you can get a hammer at a hardware store for$8.
00:36:08.114 --> 00:36:14.224
You put aviation in front of that hammer, it's$408 for the same blooming hammer.
00:36:15.123 --> 00:36:18.313
It's just like it with the healthcare and military, same thing, you know?
00:36:18.983 --> 00:36:21.304
Um, strategic growth as well.
00:36:21.563 --> 00:36:23.193
Do we need these routes here?
00:36:23.213 --> 00:36:24.114
Do we want these routes?
00:36:24.114 --> 00:36:26.193
What can we grow from this route over here?
00:36:26.733 --> 00:36:28.463
So they look at some of their bigger cities.
00:36:28.463 --> 00:36:30.184
Oh, we can get into there more.
00:36:30.914 --> 00:36:32.824
You know, Piedmont was prevalent in Baltimore.
00:36:32.893 --> 00:36:35.403
Well, so was USA Air too, you know?
00:36:35.853 --> 00:36:37.014
And, um, the...
00:36:37.043 --> 00:36:42.873
'cause if one got the other, then they don't have to move too far down the road to occupy the homes.
00:36:43.063 --> 00:36:43.534
You know what I mean?
00:36:43.574 --> 00:36:44.503
They're all the gates right there.
00:36:46.217 --> 00:36:47.478
And I've worked at Baltimore Airport.
00:36:47.478 --> 00:36:52.438
I see some of the old gates that were there,'cause it's been a long time since I've been to the Baltimore Airport.
00:36:52.438 --> 00:37:01.407
But the, the merger with USAir allowed Piedmont to expand its reach and integrate into a larger network, but they just didn't keep the brand.
00:37:01.998 --> 00:37:03.057
It became USAir.
00:37:03.057 --> 00:37:04.777
It, it, it's what it did.
00:37:05.407 --> 00:37:12.097
And, um, th- this is just the, what's print- printed on paper.
00:37:12.318 --> 00:37:18.947
And it, USAir eventually got them and absorbed them, and they ceased to, um, exist as Piedmont Airlines.
00:37:18.947 --> 00:37:29.168
There is one called Piedmont Commuter now, but, um, it's not the same as the, as the Piedmont Airlines, even though it, it operates under the, under the same type name.
00:37:29.807 --> 00:37:41.117
You ever talk to a Piedmont employee, they'll give you a probably more in-depth than what I just gave you on that, and probably a little more colorful- with some of their comments on that.
00:37:41.137 --> 00:37:43.268
And, and we can't do that here.
00:37:44.027 --> 00:37:47.478
Um, but it's, it's consolidation.
00:37:48.027 --> 00:37:50.987
It, Anthony, it all boils down to competition.
00:37:52.318 --> 00:37:56.137
You know, how much more of a bigger dog am I than this person here?
00:37:56.378 --> 00:38:02.047
Or how much more can I absorb up over here and push this person out?
00:38:02.318 --> 00:38:14.668
A lot of big dogs on the porch, just how many of them wanna jump off and get in a fight, and how many of them just gonna, you know, sit back and go,"I don't have enough to be in this fight anymore." My opinion, that's pretty much what it boils down to.
00:38:15.347 --> 00:38:24.827
And I work in the industry, and sometimes I can sit and just, and just look at things and just go,"I d- don't know how much more longer they can do that." You know?
00:38:25.478 --> 00:38:38.818
And mergers, and takeovers, and buyouts, and, and going out of business, I, I'm blessed to have never been involved in anything that I've ever done career-wise in my life that I've had that an abrupt change.
00:38:38.827 --> 00:38:44.646
That's a life-changer My wife had her life changed twice with two different airlines.
00:38:45.295 --> 00:38:49.846
I know people that's only done one, but it's a bitter taste in their mouth.
00:38:50.476 --> 00:38:55.405
And it, it comes down to consolidation and competition.
00:38:56.496 --> 00:39:08.686
Um, and today with the, the media outlets and stuff that we have, something that us who have worked in the industry look at something and go,"Oh, that's very minor.
00:39:10.045 --> 00:39:29.106
That's very mi- that rarely ever happens," or,"That's something that's just minor enough it happens every now and then." The media will blow it up to where it's like an all-out war on something, and then that starts people who don't dig in and find the facts will say,"Well, I'm never gonna fly them again." Okay.
00:39:29.976 --> 00:39:34.085
But you, enough of that happens, you start getting a bad reputation.
00:39:34.115 --> 00:39:35.065
It can hurt you.
00:39:36.135 --> 00:39:40.916
It can hurt you, and I think maybe some of Spirit's problems was, was, was because of that.
00:39:41.675 --> 00:39:46.295
And, um,'cause I talked to some people recently that worked for Spirit.
00:39:46.876 --> 00:39:47.806
They were okay with them.
00:39:48.655 --> 00:39:56.295
But, you know, if you get a, if you get a black eye for whatever reason out there, the media's not gonna, not gonna let that go.
00:39:56.735 --> 00:40:11.936
And I didn't realize how, h- how many media outlets this world has got until I watched something on the news not too long ago, and they were, had all these, uh, news outlets that had given them content.
00:40:11.936 --> 00:40:17.556
I'm like,"I never heard of these." But there's thousands of people looking at it.
00:40:18.385 --> 00:40:25.565
And word, word of mouth and something w- that we see as minor can, can cause you problems down the road.
00:40:25.565 --> 00:40:25.695
Mm-hmm.
00:40:26.596 --> 00:40:32.275
And you're not only consolidated then, you're completely swallowed up out of business and taken over, and your planes are grounded.
00:40:32.576 --> 00:40:33.315
Mm-hmm.
00:40:33.726 --> 00:40:34.135
You know.
00:40:36.458 --> 00:40:40.559
And I'll say, I have been through a buyout and merger, but that's a story for another time.
00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:40.659
Mm-hmm.
00:40:40.659 --> 00:40:44.699
And we'll talk about that competition thing and about the market itself here in a moment.
00:40:44.998 --> 00:40:53.039
But for anyone who wants to learn more about Piedmont Airlines, there is a Facebook page called the, uh, Memory of Piedmont Airlines Facebook group if you wanna go check that out.
00:40:53.449 --> 00:40:55.398
Yeah, that- But it's different than the commuter airlines.
00:40:55.398 --> 00:40:59.929
There is a commuter airlines called Piedmont now, but that's, they just bought the name rights to Piedmont name.
00:40:59.938 --> 00:40:59.949
Mm.
00:40:59.958 --> 00:41:01.239
They're not the same company at all.
00:41:01.259 --> 00:41:05.079
They, Piedmont was already gone, and they just bought up the name because the name does mean something.
00:41:05.548 --> 00:41:05.579
Yes.
00:41:05.588 --> 00:41:06.748
Even though it's not the same company.
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:08.759
They started out using Dash 7s.
00:41:09.518 --> 00:41:09.688
Yeah.
00:41:09.938 --> 00:41:10.199
Yeah.
00:41:11.311 --> 00:41:16.240
Now as we talked about, like, the mergers and everything, we have a lot of big airlines today.
00:41:16.981 --> 00:41:22.490
It's different than what we're talking about back in the, you know, my era, which is, you know, pre-1975.
00:41:22.490 --> 00:41:26.490
You had many airlines, like Pan Am, TWA, Piedmont, Delta.
00:41:26.490 --> 00:41:29.280
You had more airlines, and now we just have a lot of big airlines.
00:41:29.291 --> 00:41:35.581
Do you think the market's better this way with bigger airlines, or were we better off with multiple airlines with their own territories?
00:41:35.710 --> 00:41:38.940
I, I think the more competition you have, the better your product is.
00:41:39.630 --> 00:41:50.530
Um, if you've got five airlines that's flying to, from, say, Nashville to Chicago, you wanna fly on the one that's gonna be the best for you.
00:41:51.521 --> 00:42:00.951
Um, the competition to make passengers want to fly on them, whatever carrier it may be, is healthy, you know?
00:42:00.951 --> 00:42:04.501
So, oh, we offer this, that and the other in the cabin.
00:42:04.501 --> 00:42:07.061
We'll have free this or, or free that.
00:42:07.081 --> 00:42:16.001
Well, you know, you fly on us, buy one, get one free drinks, because all your soft drinks are gonna be free anyway.
00:42:16.860 --> 00:42:21.731
Uh, the, the lo- you used to get a meal between Chicago and Nashville on Delta.
00:42:22.641 --> 00:42:26.181
I flew with my parents several times, and we had chicken and roast beef.
00:42:26.210 --> 00:42:29.871
Seriously, it's a hour and, what, 20-minute flight, you know?
00:42:29.891 --> 00:42:33.811
You don't get a meal, uh, pretty much anywhere, unless you're going head overseas.
00:42:34.090 --> 00:42:39.331
Uh, uh, I, I've had some breakfast sandwiches on some morning flights to Texas.
00:42:40.331 --> 00:42:56.340
They were good, but it wasn't like- You know, I, I, I'm proof in the pudding that they don't sell, they don't serve food much anymore on domestic flights,'cause we have a whole cabinet full of airline china that used to be on planes going between New York, San Francisco.
00:42:56.920 --> 00:43:05.501
Um, I don't know if they serve any kind of meal on longer haul flights as far as, say, like, New York to Los Angeles or San Francisco or something.
00:43:05.501 --> 00:43:08.621
I d- That would be for somebody who's done that before.
00:43:08.621 --> 00:43:09.431
I, I don't know.
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:12.780
But I remember you used to get a meal on Delta from Nashville to Chicago.
00:43:13.190 --> 00:43:19.610
But the more airlines you have out there, yeah, you got a lot more airplanes in the air, but competition is healthy.
00:43:19.811 --> 00:43:23.271
I hate to see an airline go under, for several reasons.
00:43:23.740 --> 00:43:29.291
The employees, you hate to see them, all of a sudden,"I don't have a job." I pray for any of the airlines.
00:43:29.291 --> 00:43:31.110
I prayed hard for the people for Spirit.
00:43:31.931 --> 00:43:34.331
Uh, but you also see your competition.
00:43:34.931 --> 00:43:38.951
You know,"Well, hey, by golly, I ain't gotta try as hard to get these people to Chicago now.
00:43:38.951 --> 00:43:42.130
We lost an airline, and another one may be in trouble here soon.
00:43:42.601 --> 00:43:48.061
So, hey, we'll just serve you some apples, and here's some raisins." Uh, competition is healthy.
00:43:48.561 --> 00:43:52.190
I wanna see 30 airlines trying to get me the best way to Europe sometime.
00:43:53.240 --> 00:43:53.721
You know?
00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:57.740
Um, you don't wanna have state-run airlines.
00:43:58.931 --> 00:43:59.760
You don't want that.
00:44:00.780 --> 00:44:05.731
I've been in countries where they had a state-run airline, and I just go,"Wow, really?" You know?
00:44:06.630 --> 00:44:08.641
You, you don't, you don't want that.
00:44:09.210 --> 00:44:12.181
We have one of the best airline systems in the world in this country.
00:44:12.820 --> 00:44:14.880
Let's keep it that way, and part of that is competition.
00:44:15.771 --> 00:44:18.990
And you mentioned Breeze a little while ago, small up-and-coming carrier.
00:44:19.311 --> 00:44:23.081
Man, I wish them well, because that's competition for somebody.
00:44:24.081 --> 00:44:27.391
Um, was it, um, Avelo, Avelo?
00:44:27.391 --> 00:44:28.300
They're coming around.
00:44:28.811 --> 00:44:29.931
They're in Nashville quite a bit.
00:44:29.931 --> 00:44:30.541
They're coming around.
00:44:30.541 --> 00:44:31.650
I think they're based out of Houston.
00:44:32.471 --> 00:44:35.650
Um, as a matter of fact, they bought some old Southwest 37s.
00:44:36.581 --> 00:44:41.612
And, um, they're- You know, they're starting to make a little noise in some places.
00:44:41.992 --> 00:44:44.862
They got a big billboard on the interstate near the Nashville airport.
00:44:45.202 --> 00:44:47.842
Man, there hadn't been an airline billboard around that airport in a while.
00:44:48.431 --> 00:44:51.322
So you're having to spend money to keep yourself competitive.
00:44:51.961 --> 00:44:52.891
Competition's healthy.
00:44:54.041 --> 00:44:54.572
It is.
00:44:54.762 --> 00:44:56.092
It's, it, it, it's real healthy.
00:44:56.391 --> 00:44:58.402
It, it, can, can it get watered down?
00:44:58.492 --> 00:45:04.181
Yeah, it can get watered down, but you gotta have the right people in the right places in your office to make sure it doesn't get watered down.
00:45:05.442 --> 00:45:08.942
Because I want 30 airlines competing for my business to London.
00:45:09.882 --> 00:45:10.211
I do.
00:45:10.882 --> 00:45:16.141
And I'll go with the one that I think is best for me, and if it ain't good, I'll go somewhere else.
00:45:16.141 --> 00:45:17.601
But I want that competition.
00:45:18.271 --> 00:45:19.021
I want the competition.
00:45:19.032 --> 00:45:23.862
You go into a grocery store, there's not one or two kinds of soda, there's a whole aisle of sodas, some I've never heard of.
00:45:25.211 --> 00:45:26.771
You know, that's called competition.
00:45:27.492 --> 00:45:30.041
There's seven grocery stores within five miles of each other.
00:45:30.041 --> 00:45:35.612
They're all different ones, but it's competitive and it's healthy, and they try to bring the savings of the food prices to you.
00:45:35.621 --> 00:45:38.731
The more competition you got, the lower your ticket prices are.
00:45:38.992 --> 00:45:43.001
Now, you got problems with your, uh, fuel.
00:45:43.192 --> 00:45:44.402
Man, that's a whole nother ballgame.
00:45:44.512 --> 00:45:46.692
There's a whole team of lawyers that deal with that right there.
00:45:46.902 --> 00:45:48.501
So that factors into your tickets.
00:45:48.541 --> 00:45:50.742
But still, competition.
00:45:50.742 --> 00:45:54.952
And then you, you know, there's, there's one airline out there that likes to hedge their fuel.
00:45:55.001 --> 00:45:55.831
Well, that's a smart move.
00:45:56.702 --> 00:46:01.561
I don't know how much they do it now, but back in the day, they hedged the heck out of it, and that's why they kept their tickets prices so low.
00:46:02.242 --> 00:46:11.121
And they keep ticket prices low by giving you less, giving you less, or charging you for a bag of potato chips on some flights.
00:46:11.661 --> 00:46:12.581
Well, I'm gonna bring my own.
00:46:13.641 --> 00:46:14.121
You know?
00:46:14.192 --> 00:46:20.137
So, flying is, it needs to be super competitive.
00:46:20.137 --> 00:46:23.467
It needs to have the more food options.
00:46:23.467 --> 00:46:25.717
It needs to have the softer seats.
00:46:25.726 --> 00:46:31.907
It needs to have people smiling on the th- on the planes again, you know?
00:46:31.936 --> 00:46:33.967
I mean, just getting to the airport alone is a chore.
00:46:35.237 --> 00:46:35.856
You know?
00:46:35.996 --> 00:46:37.527
Yeah, you go through TSA.
00:46:37.757 --> 00:46:39.047
That's a necessary thing.
00:46:39.367 --> 00:46:41.126
Ever since 9/11, we've had to have that.
00:46:41.516 --> 00:46:44.577
And by the way, thank you to all the TSA agents, too.
00:46:44.867 --> 00:46:46.086
They go through a lot of stuff.
00:46:46.297 --> 00:46:48.806
I get to the airport, I'm, I'm gonna leave the airport in a little bit.
00:46:49.266 --> 00:46:51.447
No, man, they got eight, 10 hours of it.
00:46:52.237 --> 00:46:54.536
So, you know, shout out to those people.
00:46:54.777 --> 00:46:57.297
I'm, I'm glad you're here, you know?
00:46:57.327 --> 00:47:01.637
So, I think competition is needed, Anthony.
00:47:01.637 --> 00:47:02.766
I w- I'd like to see more of it.
00:47:02.766 --> 00:47:03.806
Unfortunately, I don't think we're going to.
00:47:04.757 --> 00:47:07.266
Yeah, not the way things are going right now, it doesn't look that way.
00:47:08.036 --> 00:47:09.427
Well, I wanna thank you for coming on.
00:47:09.536 --> 00:47:12.726
But before we go, do you wanna tell everybody what your plans are for next year?
00:47:13.436 --> 00:47:13.927
Yes.
00:47:13.956 --> 00:47:16.067
I'm gonna retire from my airline job.
00:47:17.806 --> 00:47:19.487
Maybe then I'll tell you who I work for.
00:47:20.827 --> 00:47:24.817
But, as, I spent time, as Anthony said earlier, in radio.
00:47:25.476 --> 00:47:30.896
And, um, I've had three full-time jobs, family farm, radio, and the airline business.
00:47:31.507 --> 00:47:40.567
So I'm gonna start my own podcast, mainly because of my wife doesn't want me bored out of my mind when I retire.
00:47:41.507 --> 00:47:48.686
But it ge- it keeps me in touch with the industry, and people like you people out there, ladies and gentlemen, listening to this podcast, whatever you're doing.
00:47:49.927 --> 00:48:01.186
I stay in touch with people like Anthony, um, Audrey, who used to work in the airline business, um, still in the travel industry with, uh, the, her, her hotels.
00:48:01.186 --> 00:48:02.146
That's, that's fantastic.
00:48:02.737 --> 00:48:08.626
Um, the guys I work with, they're gonna be part of the show sometimes.
00:48:08.706 --> 00:48:13.967
If you want some aviation comedy mayhem, you, you listen to that round, you listen to that roundtable a bunch.
00:48:13.967 --> 00:48:14.487
Anthony knows.
00:48:14.487 --> 00:48:14.856
And Mr.
00:48:14.856 --> 00:48:16.336
Anthony's gonna be a part of the show.
00:48:16.916 --> 00:48:22.717
Um, I already have my logo out, and it's gonna be, um, Sky Pirates Radio.
00:48:22.996 --> 00:48:23.717
That's what it's gonna be.
00:48:24.356 --> 00:48:28.387
And, uh, that's part of the, part, part of my old crew that I work with.
00:48:28.416 --> 00:48:29.677
We have our own patches.
00:48:30.626 --> 00:48:34.757
Um, you're fixing to mention two people in an aviation race.
00:48:34.757 --> 00:48:36.376
They had one of our stickers on the airplane.
00:48:37.266 --> 00:48:44.137
And, uh, I'm, I want, Anthony, I want you as a guest on my show, and I wanna continue to be a guest on yours.
00:48:44.166 --> 00:48:48.217
And I'm gonna promote your show, and I'm gonna go and charge you a Coca-Cola.
00:48:48.496 --> 00:48:51.206
Um Can't go wrong with a Coke.
00:48:51.586 --> 00:48:52.967
No, nothing wrong with a Coke at all.
00:48:52.967 --> 00:49:02.317
And oh, hey, by the way, coming up August 28th in Cleveland, if you're in that area, Strongsville, at the Best Western Plus, the Cleveland Airline memorabilia show.
00:49:02.317 --> 00:49:04.577
Bob Palermo and the gang put on a great show there.
00:49:04.927 --> 00:49:05.947
I will be there.
00:49:05.996 --> 00:49:07.657
One of the guys in my crew is gonna be there.
00:49:07.936 --> 00:49:10.556
My wife's gonna be there if you wanna talk Piedmont Airlines.
00:49:10.556 --> 00:49:13.496
She'll meet you at the door with her shirt on, and you just sit down and have a cup of coffee.
00:49:14.396 --> 00:49:16.367
That's coming up in Cleveland, August the 28th.
00:49:16.416 --> 00:49:18.626
I like to push that show because that's one of my favorites.
00:49:20.166 --> 00:49:20.527
Excellent.
00:49:20.547 --> 00:49:21.967
Well, nice having you on.
00:49:22.106 --> 00:49:22.956
We'll do it again sometime.
00:49:23.027 --> 00:49:24.166
Any, any time, Anthony.
00:49:24.186 --> 00:49:26.706
And, uh, shout out to our air traffic controllers.
00:49:27.867 --> 00:49:30.106
You know, thank you for everything that you have to do.
00:49:30.376 --> 00:49:31.336
Appreciate you guys.
00:49:34.059 --> 00:49:38.650
Thank you so much for listening, and remember, there's always a light at the end of the runway.
00:49:39.465 --> 00:49:43.726
Follow the mansplaining podcast for more stories from the Best Aerospace Era.
00:49:44.106 --> 00:49:47.896
Or go to Best Aerospace Era.com or find us on social media.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.410
For the Best Aerospace Era this is the mansplaining podcast.
00:00:03.459 --> 00:00:05.150
Here is your host Anthony L.
00:00:05.150 --> 00:00:05.629
Sealey
00:00:09.871 --> 00:00:11.451
Welcome aerospace enthusiasts.
00:00:11.941 --> 00:00:30.205
Here on Mansplaneing, I have often mentioned that early moment in my airline career when I first looked out on the south side of Hartsfield Jackson International Airport, ATL, and saw numerous airlines lined up on the runways waiting for takeoff This scene had a profound impact on me.
00:00:31.006 --> 00:00:35.206
I wanted to research the origins and history of the airlines that I saw.
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I also wanted to research other airlines that were long gone.
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This is something aviation enthusiasts can talk about endlessly.
00:00:44.816 --> 00:00:47.545
How about we do that on this Extra Section episode?
00:00:48.225 --> 00:00:52.375
Let's talk airlines with a man who has a true passion for airline history.
00:00:53.051 --> 00:00:54.161
Welcome back everyone.
00:00:54.331 --> 00:01:04.010
Jeff Lester Well, it's, it's great to be here with you again, Anthony.
00:01:04.031 --> 00:01:07.801
But great to be here again talking, talking airline history, something we enjoy.
00:01:08.418 --> 00:01:13.468
Before I introduced you, as a former radio DJ, a musician, and also a BNA legend.
00:01:13.987 --> 00:01:17.617
But I forgot to mention that you're also a big fan of the band Rammstein.
00:01:18.658 --> 00:01:19.168
Yeah.
00:01:19.498 --> 00:01:23.058
Uh, being from the South, you wonder how the heck I got involved in that.
00:01:23.737 --> 00:01:32.177
Um, part of, part of stuff when I was in music, and I was, you know, DJ-ing, played in a band, um, I like a lot of different kinds of music.
00:01:32.177 --> 00:01:35.298
And, and then music, I can paint a picture when I listen to it.
00:01:35.308 --> 00:01:41.138
And s- and a lot of times, the music I listen to, some form of aviation will come into it somewhere.
00:01:42.078 --> 00:01:55.498
And, um, a coworker, um, I, I'll leave his name out of it, but if you ever, if you ever s- met him, you'd never forget him, turned me on to this style of music.
00:01:55.548 --> 00:02:00.197
And I'm being honest with you, I'm not quite sure what style of music it is, but it's interesting.
00:02:00.727 --> 00:02:07.718
And, uh, they don't sing in English, and so y- you know, but you just have to, y- you, you have to enjoy it.
00:02:07.718 --> 00:02:19.687
And I think I was watching a video, um, on TV one time, and he was in the room, and I said,"Just who and what is this?""Rammstein." And then he just started sending me things.
00:02:19.717 --> 00:02:24.038
And what's that one song that I like a lot, Feuer Frei, which is Fire at Will.
00:02:24.677 --> 00:02:27.168
Um, y- here comes the aviation.
00:02:27.358 --> 00:02:37.777
You hear the, you know, the way the music drops, and you picture, like, Stuka dive bombers and stuff, making that horrible sound with the speed brakes underneath their wings.
00:02:38.457 --> 00:02:44.177
So yeah, if you ever meet me in person, you'll go,"No way." Definitely.
00:02:44.737 --> 00:02:45.647
But I do, and it...
00:02:45.777 --> 00:02:50.978
And I, and, and Anthony here can, is, um, can back this up.
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I do have a T-shirt from the band.
00:02:52.747 --> 00:02:53.078
Yes.
00:02:53.098 --> 00:02:53.508
Yes.
00:02:54.198 --> 00:02:55.348
I was very surprised to see you wearing that.
00:02:55.348 --> 00:02:56.867
I was like,"Do you know what you're wearing?" I did.
00:02:56.867 --> 00:03:01.562
I said,"Yes, I do." Well, let's get to why we're here.
00:03:02.271 --> 00:03:05.831
You're a big aviation enthusiast, and particularly a fan of airline history.
00:03:06.451 --> 00:03:10.641
The reason I wanted to have you come back on Mansplaneing is to talk about one airline in particular.
00:03:11.401 --> 00:03:15.151
But before we get to that, let's do like we did back before when we used to talk about airlines.
00:03:15.192 --> 00:03:17.572
Let's talk about some airlines that have come and gone from any era.
00:03:18.681 --> 00:03:25.872
Oh, a- a- and, and a lot of good ones, too, and, you know, just things just fall by the wayside.
00:03:25.882 --> 00:03:31.102
Trucking companies, car companies, shipping companies, airlines.
00:03:31.141 --> 00:03:33.051
Um, Ozark was always a good one.
00:03:33.792 --> 00:03:42.292
Um, they used to come to the airshow in Smyrna, Tennessee, with a DC-9, and for$10 you could get a 30-minute sightseeing ride.
00:03:42.891 --> 00:03:50.641
And one of the good things about that is Ozark was opening up a chance to get on an airplane for people who wouldn't normally fly anywhere.
00:03:51.021 --> 00:03:58.292
For$10, you could fly around Nashville for 30 minutes in a DC-9, and I took a friend of mine, it was his first ever airplane ride.
00:03:58.931 --> 00:03:59.991
We went to the airshow.
00:04:00.081 --> 00:04:02.741
He paid$10, and he t- got on a DC-9.
00:04:02.752 --> 00:04:04.401
It took off, and he lo- he sat by the window.
00:04:04.401 --> 00:04:09.331
He just said,"Wow, this is incredible." Um, airlines, some used to do that back in the day.
00:04:09.331 --> 00:04:22.742
Southern Airways is a, i- is another one, and who merged with, um, North Central, old Blue Goose up there in Wisconsin, uh, to go on to form Republic, and then Northwest got them, and everybody knows all about that.
00:04:23.391 --> 00:04:26.401
Um, Southern Airways used to fly to...
00:04:26.961 --> 00:04:31.982
One of the things I loved about old airlines, and the small ones are no longer around, even though they were getting bigger.
00:04:31.982 --> 00:04:43.291
Southern Air- Southern Airlines, Southern Airways, they had a Martin 404 that would land in Shelbyville, Tennessee, and another one that would land in a small town called Crossville, and it was regular scheduled passenger service.
00:04:43.291 --> 00:04:48.302
It would go Nashville, Shelbyville, I wanna say maybe Huntsville or Birmingham, and then over to Atlanta.
00:04:48.951 --> 00:04:50.812
My dad was We grew up on a big dairy farm.
00:04:50.812 --> 00:04:52.291
He was president of the American Dairy Association.
00:04:52.291 --> 00:04:55.312
Sometimes he had to get to Atlanta real quick.
00:04:55.351 --> 00:05:00.601
We would drive down the road from our farm to the Shelbyville Airport and put my dad on this Martin 404.
00:05:01.382 --> 00:05:06.302
They'd put on three or four boxes of cargo, some mail, and my dad from the rear stairs, and off they'd go, you know.
00:05:06.891 --> 00:05:09.581
Those are, t- those are the carriers I miss.
00:05:09.581 --> 00:05:11.451
Mohawk up in the Northeast.
00:05:11.512 --> 00:05:13.512
Bonanza out in the Nevada area.
00:05:14.471 --> 00:05:24.101
They helped pave the way for the airlines we have now, but sometimes how they were taken out of the game is not the best, but that's just the way business is.
00:05:24.812 --> 00:05:39.185
And we're fixing to discuss one that was, man, was really up and coming, and just- You know, the way of the aviation world, it, it, it went another direction, and took some good people with it, my wife being one.
00:05:39.185 --> 00:05:41.795
She was an employee of this great airline at one time.
00:05:42.706 --> 00:06:02.826
So that's, this If you sit down, when I retire from my job, I want to sit down for a week and, and, and catch up on every airline that's no longer in business from as far back as the'30s, when they had the small ones, to, to, to right now.
00:06:03.665 --> 00:06:06.815
You'd be amazed at the list, airlines you've never heard of.
00:06:06.826 --> 00:06:10.576
Big Apple Airways, the shuttles, you know.
00:06:10.605 --> 00:06:14.855
And then you had, USAir had the, was it the Metroliners, I believe?
00:06:14.865 --> 00:06:19.586
The old 737-200s, what they called, uh, Metroliners?
00:06:19.665 --> 00:06:22.536
Oh, I forgot to do my research on that one.
00:06:22.565 --> 00:06:23.516
I can during a break.
00:06:27.377 --> 00:06:33.877
Well, I know some airlines I knew from, you mentioned Atlanta, that's the mecca of air- Ah of the airline industry.
00:06:33.956 --> 00:06:34.286
Yes.
00:06:34.297 --> 00:06:38.817
I know some airlines I remember from my, when I, when I was growing up, one was called Kiwi Airlines.
00:06:38.826 --> 00:06:40.107
I think we've talked about that before.
00:06:40.107 --> 00:06:40.237
Yes.
00:06:40.237 --> 00:06:41.307
They were a low-cost airline.
00:06:41.307 --> 00:06:43.047
They weren't around for very long back in the'90s.
00:06:43.057 --> 00:06:45.427
Used to run 727s out of Midway.
00:06:45.747 --> 00:06:45.776
Okay.
00:06:45.786 --> 00:06:47.526
You talk about a white-knuckle ride.
00:06:50.757 --> 00:06:57.216
And another one, some people might be surprised to hear, or at least people my generation and your generation have heard this, Hooters Airlines.
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Yes.
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You remember that one?
00:06:58.476 --> 00:06:59.127
Yes, I do.
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Yeah.
00:06:59.637 --> 00:07:01.036
People might not know that existed.
00:07:01.836 --> 00:07:05.237
And they actually had small regular scheduled service, limited.
00:07:05.427 --> 00:07:06.716
It wasn't just sports charters.
00:07:07.476 --> 00:07:09.607
Uh, my nephew's wife was a flight attendant.
00:07:10.076 --> 00:07:15.927
She wasn't a Hooter Girl, she was an actual flight attendant on the limited scheduled flights.
00:07:15.937 --> 00:07:17.716
So yes, a lot of people don't remember that, though.
00:07:17.916 --> 00:07:18.076
Mm-hmm.
00:07:18.086 --> 00:07:18.567
You and I do.
00:07:18.567 --> 00:07:19.107
We've seen them.
00:07:20.677 --> 00:07:25.067
I bring this up'cause, well, Spirit just went under, so Spirit's no longer going.
00:07:25.067 --> 00:07:26.367
So air- airlines come and go.
00:07:26.396 --> 00:07:28.487
We've- Yeah we've seen a lot come, we've seen a lot go.
00:07:29.916 --> 00:07:32.107
But before we move on, I'm gonna ask you one thing.
00:07:32.716 --> 00:07:36.627
Some say that's your face on the tail of the Alaskan Airlines planes.
00:07:36.766 --> 00:07:37.107
Yeah.
00:07:37.166 --> 00:07:37.966
We need, we need to clear this up.
00:07:37.987 --> 00:07:38.867
Is that your face?
00:07:39.257 --> 00:07:39.836
No.
00:07:40.596 --> 00:07:44.697
If it, if it was, we would be doing this in a professional studio, Anthony.
00:07:44.896 --> 00:07:44.987
Yeah.
00:07:45.947 --> 00:07:57.896
Um, I have, I w- I work in the industry, and every time I'll be at the airport somebody will see one of the Alaska tails and go,"Oh, look, Jeff Lester's in town." So, yeah.
00:07:57.896 --> 00:07:59.627
And I get a kick out of it.
00:07:59.627 --> 00:08:00.346
I, I like it.
00:08:00.346 --> 00:08:02.547
And sure, you know, I, I wish that was.
00:08:02.576 --> 00:08:06.286
I think it's a, I mean, it's a household logo.
00:08:06.286 --> 00:08:09.817
You see that, and there's no airplanes around, you know it's Alaska.
00:08:09.846 --> 00:08:10.057
Mm-hmm.
00:08:10.346 --> 00:08:12.076
Great marketing, great marketing on their part.
00:08:13.497 --> 00:08:21.158
I wanna tell you about possibly one of the first attempts at a passenger transport using airplanes, and we're gonna have to go all the way back to 1914.
00:08:21.228 --> 00:08:22.387
I don't know if you know this story.
00:08:23.288 --> 00:08:25.487
Back in 1914, a company called the St.
00:08:25.487 --> 00:08:38.368
Petersburg-Tampa Airboat Line flew one passenger at a time across the bay for five bucks, which is about 160 bucks today, and the plane they used was called a Benoist Model 14.
00:08:38.908 --> 00:08:47.618
If you never heard of it, neither have I, but they were in business for, like, one season, like a summer season,'cause they would just fly people across the bay, which usually would cost...
00:08:47.837 --> 00:08:51.518
or, like, two-hour drive, but, you know, couple...
00:08:51.727 --> 00:08:54.107
like a 10-minute flight across the bay and get you there faster.
00:08:54.268 --> 00:08:54.498
Yeah.
00:08:54.508 --> 00:08:55.837
But I wanna get your thoughts on that one.
00:08:55.837 --> 00:08:56.687
Have you ever heard that story?
00:08:57.038 --> 00:09:00.677
No, I haven't, and I thought I'd heard of a lot of them.
00:09:00.677 --> 00:09:12.048
I've seen pictures inside of old planes that had, um, wicker seats in them, like lounge, like yar- long chairs that were, like, bolted to the floor, if they were even, if they were even bolted.
00:09:13.018 --> 00:09:15.607
Um, flight attendants were nurses.
00:09:15.648 --> 00:09:17.648
They had on nurse uniforms back then.
00:09:18.087 --> 00:09:19.768
Now, that, that story escaped me.
00:09:19.768 --> 00:09:26.788
You did, you did your good research there, but I can understand that because somebody looked at that, just like back in the days of the Wright brothers.
00:09:27.597 --> 00:09:30.837
Like, you know, and, and the Montgolfier brothers with the hot air balloons.
00:09:31.508 --> 00:09:40.357
They, they, they see a bird, and they look at the bird, and you go,"How does he do that?" It d- it takes him no time to fly from point A to point B.
00:09:40.817 --> 00:09:59.837
So somebody in that airline looked at that and go,"Instead of driving two hours around the bay to get to point B, if we have to haul them one passenger at a time, let's do that and make it a 10-minute flight with a headwind." And I, that, that, to me, that's another marketing genius.
00:09:59.888 --> 00:10:00.138
Mm-hmm.
00:10:00.388 --> 00:10:03.148
You know, you look at that and you go,"Yeah.
00:10:03.557 --> 00:10:05.408
Yeah, we can do that." That's, that's fascinating.
00:10:05.408 --> 00:10:05.918
Fascinating.
00:10:05.937 --> 00:10:11.158
And one passenger at a time, you have to think, there wasn't a whole lot of people in the world back then either, you know?
00:10:11.587 --> 00:10:13.827
You talk about a backlog now if you had to do that.
00:10:14.057 --> 00:10:15.258
Yeah, we're talking 1914.
00:10:15.258 --> 00:10:18.077
This is when I talk about the wood, wire, and fabric flying machines.
00:10:18.077 --> 00:10:18.988
They're not really airplanes.
00:10:18.998 --> 00:10:28.177
These are just flying machines, flying contraptions- Yeah, they were wood- or whatever you call them, airplanes at this time wooden wings hooked to wooden fuselages with, uh, canvas and, and dope glue on them.
00:10:28.567 --> 00:10:28.898
Yeah.
00:10:29.467 --> 00:10:29.607
Yeah.
00:10:29.618 --> 00:10:30.648
Think about that, you know?
00:10:31.087 --> 00:10:38.368
Well, I got this story from the book The Airplane: How, How Ideas Gave Us Wings by Jay Spencer, by the way- Mm-hmm which I recommend to everybody.
00:10:38.638 --> 00:10:39.717
Yeah, he's a great writer.
00:10:42.764 --> 00:10:50.174
Now, 1914 wasn't the best time to start an airline, but a prime time, I believe, to start an airline was the late 1940s.
00:10:50.735 --> 00:10:53.934
There are many aircraft options that were safe and large enough to make a profit.
00:10:54.475 --> 00:10:59.075
And think about all the experienced pilots there were from World War II, and also the veterans looking for work.
00:10:59.664 --> 00:11:02.985
And I believe this is a time where your favorite airline came into being.
00:11:03.804 --> 00:11:05.014
That would be Piedmont.
00:11:05.664 --> 00:11:05.794
Yes.
00:11:06.365 --> 00:11:07.184
One of my favorites.
00:11:07.225 --> 00:11:15.424
Uh, at, at the end of World War II, you know, the passenger plane of choice, or soon to become a choice, was the DC-3 or the Dakota.
00:11:15.674 --> 00:11:17.274
You know, some people call it a Gooney Bird.
00:11:18.235 --> 00:11:24.875
Um,'cause you could, y- you could easily put aircraft seats in them, and the configuration's how you want it.
00:11:25.434 --> 00:11:27.605
Each airline had a different seating configuration.
00:11:27.644 --> 00:11:33.894
Um, American, um, boarded their DC-3s from the number two side.
00:11:33.894 --> 00:11:36.715
Majority of the carriers had a boarding from the number one side.
00:11:37.904 --> 00:11:43.924
And that's, th- that's a story in its own right about why American wanted them boarded like that.
00:11:43.934 --> 00:11:45.174
You should do a show on that.
00:11:45.174 --> 00:11:46.705
I won't spoil that for your listeners.
00:11:46.705 --> 00:11:50.914
That's a good one to, to research on, and that, the quirkiness of some of the CEOs.
00:11:51.304 --> 00:11:53.434
That's something you could do.
00:11:53.815 --> 00:12:01.274
But then you've got all this whole plethora of Um, m- military flyers that are looking for a job.
00:12:02.294 --> 00:12:04.294
Okay, here's the airplanes.
00:12:04.294 --> 00:12:05.365
There's what they flew.
00:12:05.455 --> 00:12:09.534
Let's train them in the world of the airline and get these planes out there.
00:12:09.534 --> 00:12:19.514
That's why they've so many, you know, DC-3s, and then you had the, you know, DC-4s and stuff coming into play, the four-engine jobs.
00:12:19.514 --> 00:12:21.995
And then, you know, on down the road, you had the Connies.
00:12:21.995 --> 00:12:27.735
And these guys have flown combat missions, so flying into Chicago in bad weather was nothing for them.
00:12:27.735 --> 00:12:28.865
They're used to getting shot at.
00:12:29.554 --> 00:12:30.585
So that's...
00:12:31.125 --> 00:12:35.034
Y- yeah, you're right, that was the prime time to, to, to get into that, you know?
00:12:35.034 --> 00:12:39.065
And then you, you know, Ford making the Tri-Motor, and TWA was, was big in that.
00:12:39.855 --> 00:12:43.855
And, um, it started a whole evolution.
00:12:43.855 --> 00:12:48.745
It, it started such a big time competition here with airlines.
00:12:48.955 --> 00:12:50.404
We can get you here faster.
00:12:50.455 --> 00:12:53.184
Orders for bigger, faster airplanes are coming in.
00:12:53.504 --> 00:12:55.465
We have the largest fleet of DC-3s.
00:12:55.465 --> 00:12:56.184
We can fly overnight.
00:12:56.184 --> 00:13:00.384
Some DC-3s were overnighters and had sleeper berths in them, like trains.
00:13:00.424 --> 00:13:05.325
Um, so then you had marketing people you had to hire.
00:13:05.664 --> 00:13:06.644
You had to get routes.
00:13:06.644 --> 00:13:09.495
COCAB, which is now the FAA.
00:13:10.065 --> 00:13:13.784
Uh, you had to go through all that governing body and stuff.
00:13:13.784 --> 00:13:23.335
And, you know, right at the end of World War II on, it's just been, you know, Katie bar the door with the airlines.
00:13:24.134 --> 00:13:31.835
And to coincide and to run with the airlines, you gotta have trains and trucks to get cargo and stuff from one point to another.
00:13:31.835 --> 00:13:42.745
We can get this truckload here, but we gotta take it to the airport because it's gonna go to California overnight, instead of, like, seven nights over the road or four nights with a train.
00:13:43.205 --> 00:13:44.784
But, see, all that works together.
00:13:45.325 --> 00:13:51.914
You know, um, the company I work for, we have trucks come to the airport, offload boxes, we put them on airplanes.
00:13:52.884 --> 00:13:54.904
So you have all that to go into it together.
00:13:54.904 --> 00:14:00.404
So, I mean, the, the, the transportation world, I mean, even shipping in some of the airports that are near port cities, it's the same way.
00:14:01.054 --> 00:14:03.504
Um, that's...
00:14:04.485 --> 00:14:13.365
If I could go back in time and be in aviation, that'd be a good time, because look how many groundbreaking things happened in just commercial.
00:14:13.664 --> 00:14:17.215
Also groundbreaking in military, but groundbreaking, period.
00:14:18.014 --> 00:14:27.715
You know, you see pictures of kids and their parents at airports seeing a DC-4 or a DC-6 or a Connie, and hundreds of peoples would come out.
00:14:28.375 --> 00:14:32.884
Because even in the f- the'40s and'50s, commercial was new.
00:14:33.075 --> 00:14:34.284
Commercial flying was new.
00:14:35.504 --> 00:14:39.764
Um, you drove cross-country in, what, 10, 12 days?
00:14:40.404 --> 00:14:45.654
Hey, this airline here with the new DC-6 can get you cross-country in seven and a half hours.
00:14:46.904 --> 00:14:54.023
And you look at that and just go,"How?" You know, coming up in the aviation world after World War II was phenomenal.
00:14:54.972 --> 00:14:58.153
I mean, when I was a kid, I used to go to the airport and just gawk at the airplanes.
00:14:58.163 --> 00:15:02.243
When my dad flew out of Nashville Airport, they had a observation deck on top.
00:15:02.533 --> 00:15:06.462
Uh, you'd see all kinds of So 707s, 27s, Electras, Martin 404s.
00:15:06.462 --> 00:15:07.582
Saw my first Connie there.
00:15:08.692 --> 00:15:13.472
And with all the developing and all the cool airplanes coming on, it kept people interested.
00:15:14.952 --> 00:15:19.763
And then you get to thinking about,"Hey, I got a good team of people around me.
00:15:19.763 --> 00:15:26.442
Let's start this airline." TWA, uh, Piedmont, Ozark, Mohawk up in the Northeast.
00:15:27.283 --> 00:15:30.503
You know, and then your competition gets bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger.
00:15:30.503 --> 00:15:32.452
And,"Hey, we wanna get this group of people over here.
00:15:32.552 --> 00:15:33.562
I wanna get this group of people over here.
00:15:34.033 --> 00:15:36.312
Hey, we fly to Chicago in four and a half hours.
00:15:36.322 --> 00:15:43.863
I'll get you there in three and a half." You know, and then the golden age of aviation is born, you know.
00:15:43.883 --> 00:15:57.418
And, and it wasn't It was For lack of a better term, I guess, my wife and I discussed this a few times, it was a more glamorous style of, of travel back then, both for flying, working, and passengers.
00:15:58.318 --> 00:16:00.259
And it was glorified in the Hollywood movies.
00:16:00.788 --> 00:16:04.798
You know, Casablanca, the classic DC-3 in the fog.
00:16:06.068 --> 00:16:08.509
Look how they're dressed, you know.
00:16:08.578 --> 00:16:11.339
And it's just,"Oh, you work for an airline.
00:16:11.349 --> 00:16:12.639
Wow, cool." You know.
00:16:13.219 --> 00:16:14.818
And, and, and I still get that.
00:16:14.869 --> 00:16:17.568
I still work, you know, I still work for the airline, and I still get that.
00:16:18.129 --> 00:16:23.999
And they go,"Hey, man, how cool is that?" And, you know, it's got its ups and downs, it's got its hurdles.
00:16:23.999 --> 00:16:26.359
But I tell them, I said,"Hey, I've been almost 26 years.
00:16:26.369 --> 00:16:44.154
There's something good about it." So yeah, this, and how all these other airlines And some of them started off, if I'm not mistaken, Southern started off as a railroad and then became an airline You know, so you, it comes from that part of transportation.
00:16:44.845 --> 00:16:50.485
And you had CEOs that knew how to run a business, but also knew how to treat their people.
00:16:51.754 --> 00:16:55.424
And that's where we're fixin' to talk some about Piedmont, Mr.
00:16:55.424 --> 00:16:56.654
Davis comes into play.
00:16:58.075 --> 00:17:01.634
He was good friends with Herb Kelleher, and we know what Herb Kelleher was at Southwest.
00:17:02.674 --> 00:17:06.625
You know, he was in turn friends with Gordon Bethune, and we know what he was like at Continental.
00:17:07.625 --> 00:17:11.575
So, you could do a whole show, Anthony, about CEOs sometimes.
00:17:12.585 --> 00:17:13.325
I mean, you really could.
00:17:14.805 --> 00:17:16.845
Yeah, speaking of, uh, Tom Davis, that's who I found.
00:17:16.845 --> 00:17:21.115
He was the founder of Piedmont,'cause I know you're such a big fan about Piedmont.
00:17:21.115 --> 00:17:22.625
I had to do some research on my own.
00:17:23.164 --> 00:17:30.244
He bought a company called Camel City Flying Service in 1940, and later renamed it to Piedmont Airlines.
00:17:30.785 --> 00:17:36.474
And under his leadership about a decade later, that's when they, they became a commercial airline in the late 1940s, like you were talking about.
00:17:37.154 --> 00:17:41.855
But they had a different strategy than the, than the other airlines that were already established.
00:17:41.855 --> 00:17:43.664
They kinda served the smaller markets.
00:17:43.684 --> 00:17:44.075
Yes.
00:17:44.365 --> 00:17:45.734
And I know you wanna talk about that.
00:17:45.954 --> 00:17:46.305
Yeah.
00:17:46.325 --> 00:17:50.664
I've always been a fan of the airlines that wanted to s- um, serve smaller markets.
00:17:50.684 --> 00:17:53.825
Uh, your trunk carriers, they went to your bigger cities, your hubs.
00:17:55.105 --> 00:17:57.525
Um, Eastern, TWA, American.
00:17:58.095 --> 00:18:02.884
Where airlines like Piedmont, uh, Southern, Ozark, they served the smaller ones.
00:18:03.575 --> 00:18:18.865
My very first 737 ride was a s- Piedmont, a 737-200, that went from Memphis to Nashville, then went to Asheville, a small city up in the mountains, and eventually wound up in Hampton Roads, Virginia.
00:18:19.785 --> 00:18:22.154
Where the bigger carriers weren't, weren't doing that route.
00:18:22.184 --> 00:18:23.335
They would stop in Charlotte.
00:18:24.375 --> 00:18:28.315
Um, Ozark, Cape Girardeau, they flew to Clarksville, Tennessee.
00:18:28.944 --> 00:18:30.775
Even though the Nashville airport, they flew to Clarksville.
00:18:30.785 --> 00:18:32.045
Flew to Owensboro, Kentucky.
00:18:32.605 --> 00:18:40.174
You know, The CEOs and the people behind them and with them saw what the bigger airlines were doing.
00:18:41.244 --> 00:18:49.085
What, what about the little town over here in the Midwest, where the nearest airport's, big airport that somebody fly to is 200 miles away?
00:18:49.355 --> 00:18:59.734
We can get equipment to fly into these smaller runways, and these people that live in this area who wanna travel, they can drive 20 minutes down the road across farmland to get to an airplane.
00:19:00.484 --> 00:19:03.884
It may only be two or three flights a day, but that's more than what they got now.
00:19:05.173 --> 00:19:08.482
And we'll take them to Chicago.
00:19:08.732 --> 00:19:09.593
We'll take them to St.
00:19:09.603 --> 00:19:10.163
Louis.
00:19:10.742 --> 00:19:17.643
Or we'll take them to one of our other small, but yet a little bigger cities, to put them on an airplane to get them there.
00:19:17.742 --> 00:19:20.202
And that also enhances their, their experience.
00:19:20.202 --> 00:19:27.383
A- and it, it's gonna cost you, but it's not gonna be an arm and a leg, because back then, a lot of people didn't have an arm and a leg to spend.
00:19:28.252 --> 00:19:30.133
But they didn't have access.
00:19:31.133 --> 00:19:39.532
The airlines wanted to grow and grow and grow, so let's go to Smallsville, Iowa, and get them to St.
00:19:39.532 --> 00:19:40.593
Louis, Missouri.
00:19:41.833 --> 00:19:53.048
Even if it's just one flight a day, they had that opportunity And I always have been and always will be a big fan of the airlines that go to, that serve the smaller cities.
00:19:53.078 --> 00:20:07.729
Now today, some of the bigger airlines do serve some of the smaller cities, but these airlines here, like Piedmont, Ozark, Southern, Bonanza, grew expanding and expanding, but hitting the smaller carriers, and giving good customer service.
00:20:07.919 --> 00:20:14.548
Yeah, s- um, Piedmont got me from Asheville to Atlanta in no time, safely.
00:20:14.898 --> 00:20:20.169
Yeah, I'm gonna fly them again, even though you know yourself Atlanta had 30 airlines going in there.
00:20:20.909 --> 00:20:24.709
Now, that's how you build loyalty, and your smaller airlines knew what loyalty was about.
00:20:25.699 --> 00:20:28.709
And this, Piedmont would be the airline any of these small communities know.
00:20:28.749 --> 00:20:29.778
They don't know Delta.
00:20:29.818 --> 00:20:34.999
They don't know TWA, especially not Pan Am,'cause Pan Am, their market was international.
00:20:35.179 --> 00:20:35.538
Yeah.
00:20:35.608 --> 00:20:38.048
So, they don't even know these airlines exist, but Piedmont.
00:20:38.078 --> 00:20:38.868
They're right down the street.
00:20:38.868 --> 00:20:38.878
Yeah.
00:20:38.878 --> 00:20:40.638
I know Piedmont, you know?
00:20:40.679 --> 00:20:45.979
Yep, and you used to see billboards near airports advertising, um, airlines.
00:20:45.979 --> 00:20:54.378
And whenever you was in the Carolinas, from Knoxville all the way to the Atlantic Coast, you would see billboards advertising Piedmont everywhere.
00:20:54.509 --> 00:21:01.898
And Piedmont was based in, I believe, Winston-Salem, and, uh, eventually they had a big, they grew into a big hub in, in Charlotte.
00:21:02.739 --> 00:21:21.808
But when you built up your customers and your loyalty, and you said,"Fly Piedmont," or,"Fly, uh, Southern," people go,"Wow, they'll get me from Smallsville to Macon, Georgia in less than four hours.
00:21:22.058 --> 00:21:25.858
Yeah, I'm gonna give them a shot." So, it cuts down their travel time.
00:21:25.868 --> 00:21:26.788
They have a great time.
00:21:26.788 --> 00:21:29.259
Kids love the airplane, noses pressed against the windows.
00:21:29.278 --> 00:21:31.798
I mean, I know some adults, I'm the same way, my nose pressed against the window.
00:21:32.449 --> 00:21:39.628
And they get there, they get to visit family or go to the beach or whatever, and they come back and they go,"How was your trip?""Let me tell you how my trip was.
00:21:39.628 --> 00:21:46.439
First of all, I will fly them again." That's the whole premise behind the smaller carriers, and all the airlines want that.
00:21:46.959 --> 00:21:57.689
It was a loyalty program before there was points or anything like that, and it was all done through customer service, which unfortunately, a lot of things have gone by the wayside due to the bottom line.
00:21:58.328 --> 00:22:10.398
Bottom line's always been important, but these gentlemen and, and these women who worked in the early days of these small airlines knew you had to make people want to come back.
00:22:11.550 --> 00:22:15.671
Not just'cause you have a low price, but you made them feel like a, a human being.
00:22:16.230 --> 00:22:18.530
"Hey, I'm glad to see you on my DC-3.
00:22:18.540 --> 00:22:20.721
Can't wait to see you again." That's how they feel.
00:22:20.721 --> 00:22:21.691
That's how it goes.
00:22:22.171 --> 00:22:25.601
And that was the big premise behind the smaller carriers.
00:22:25.891 --> 00:22:35.740
You get loyalty from the Midwest and the farmland that's gonna fly to a bigger city, they'll always stick with you, you know?
00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:40.280
And we're gonna provide that with the smaller carriers to get to the bigger cities.
00:22:41.060 --> 00:22:47.000
And, um, some of these airlines grew to be, uh, bigger ones.
00:22:47.020 --> 00:22:51.770
Ozark was decent size when, when they merged with TWA.
00:22:52.570 --> 00:22:55.961
Um, Southern had was growing.
00:22:55.961 --> 00:22:59.151
They had flights into New York and stuff like that and everything.
00:22:59.151 --> 00:23:08.121
And, you know, speaking of small cities, they would fly to Memphis from Nashville, but every now and then, they would have a flight that went Nashville to Jackson, Tennessee.
00:23:09.070 --> 00:23:10.790
Who flew into Jackson?
00:23:11.701 --> 00:23:12.550
Nobody did.
00:23:12.580 --> 00:23:19.161
I There's a, there's a airline today that resembles these old small, small city carriers, Contour.
00:23:19.901 --> 00:23:22.221
Contour will fly Tupelo, Mississippi, stuff like that.
00:23:22.560 --> 00:23:25.671
But Southern, I believe Southern used to run 404s, and don't quote me on this.
00:23:25.671 --> 00:23:26.310
That's a whole nother show.
00:23:26.911 --> 00:23:30.080
But, um, Con- Contour is following that.
00:23:30.421 --> 00:23:31.631
And Contour doesn't have a big fleet.
00:23:31.721 --> 00:23:32.490
They don't have big jets.
00:23:32.490 --> 00:23:35.090
They got RJs, CRJs.
00:23:35.090 --> 00:23:37.070
But they're servicing Tupelo.
00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:40.510
They're servicing Owensboro, Kentucky, places like that.
00:23:40.931 --> 00:23:42.510
So there, there's an important place for them.
00:23:42.550 --> 00:23:47.111
There, there's a, a, there's, there's a The, the aviation world's a big pie.
00:23:47.141 --> 00:23:48.111
There's enough for everybody.
00:23:48.611 --> 00:23:51.711
Just some people don't want to share it, you know?
00:23:52.040 --> 00:23:53.490
It is called competition, Anthony.
00:23:53.500 --> 00:23:54.990
You know, it's called, it's called competition.
00:23:55.381 --> 00:24:02.221
Piedmont, they survived a lot longer than some of the, the ones that started out s- um, small.
00:24:03.290 --> 00:24:06.570
And they grew to where they were flying to Gatwick out of the Carolinas.
00:24:07.111 --> 00:24:13.661
They brought, I think it was eight 767-200ERs, and were flying overseas to, to Gatwick out of there.
00:24:14.181 --> 00:24:17.830
Had healthy runs to Denver, New York.
00:24:18.201 --> 00:24:21.310
The Pittsburgh Steelers would charter them for their road games.
00:24:21.310 --> 00:24:22.641
I saw them in Kansas City.
00:24:22.760 --> 00:24:24.421
It was a Piedmont 727.
00:24:25.171 --> 00:24:28.892
Then you got into nASCAR gets into the deal.
00:24:30.566 --> 00:24:34.385
Uh, Ricky Rudd, Terry Labonte run the Piedmont car.
00:24:35.076 --> 00:24:38.336
I think Labonte won a NASCAR championship in that car one year.
00:24:38.875 --> 00:24:41.086
Okay, here's where your marketing comes in.
00:24:41.086 --> 00:24:42.506
Piedmont started off small.
00:24:42.506 --> 00:24:43.046
They're growing.
00:24:43.046 --> 00:24:43.786
They're getting bigger.
00:24:44.685 --> 00:24:47.685
They're big in the South, big in Orlando, Dayton, Ohio.
00:24:48.695 --> 00:24:51.556
Back then, NASCAR was popular.
00:24:51.566 --> 00:24:53.306
You couldn't get a ticket for nothing.
00:24:53.826 --> 00:24:57.155
Well, they put Piedmont on the side of a hauler, on the side of a race car.
00:24:57.556 --> 00:25:02.395
Every Sunday, it's 100,000 people are gonna see that car going around in circles.
00:25:03.135 --> 00:25:13.286
You know, the official airline, uh, of NASCAR, Piedmont, and they had a great, gr- great marketing, uh, campaign.
00:25:13.336 --> 00:25:21.145
They kept their fleet updated, and they would buy aircraft to work with their, wi- uh, uh, with their routes.
00:25:21.145 --> 00:25:28.395
They had the Martin 404, so you had the Fairchild 227s, the Hiller 27s, which if you look at it, you look at, it's the same airplane.
00:25:28.415 --> 00:25:31.425
Well, a little bit different, but they're stills designed the same.
00:25:31.915 --> 00:25:34.215
The F-28s, your Fokkers.
00:25:34.215 --> 00:25:35.935
737s, where were they gonna be able to go?
00:25:36.816 --> 00:25:40.986
Japanese-made commercial aircraft, the YS11.
00:25:42.385 --> 00:25:43.296
YS11.
00:25:45.026 --> 00:25:52.986
I mean, Piedmont bought several of those to fly them into places like Jackson, Tennessee, maybe.
00:25:53.046 --> 00:25:54.276
Owensboro, Kentucky.
00:25:55.516 --> 00:25:58.855
A, a dirt strip in north Alabama somewhere if they had to.
00:25:59.185 --> 00:26:02.316
Uh, they didn't, but y- y- you see where I'm going with this.
00:26:03.435 --> 00:26:06.256
They would see a route that they wanted to do.
00:26:06.276 --> 00:26:07.415
"How can we service people?
00:26:07.465 --> 00:26:08.796
What kind of aircraft can we use?
00:26:08.796 --> 00:26:13.205
What kind of aircraft do we need?" They bought a multitude of different kinds and spread them out.
00:26:13.205 --> 00:26:14.855
They had DC-3s as well.
00:26:15.736 --> 00:26:20.115
Um, y- gosh, it was a well-thought-out battle plan.
00:26:21.236 --> 00:26:22.986
Herb Kelleher almost did the same thing.
00:26:23.115 --> 00:26:24.496
That's why him and, and Mr.
00:26:24.496 --> 00:26:25.486
Davis were good friends.
00:26:25.905 --> 00:26:27.425
They kinda had the same mindset.
00:26:28.435 --> 00:26:37.526
But Davis is one who, a- a- among several, who, who not only plowed the ground, but he planted the corn as well, if that makes any sense.
00:26:37.796 --> 00:26:39.955
You can tell I'm from the South, ladies and gentlemen.
00:26:39.955 --> 00:26:55.645
But that's, that's one thing, I mean, I c- I could look at, I could look at a small-town carrier today and think about,"What would you be like in'51 if this person was running you?" Or,"I, I hope you make it.
00:26:55.645 --> 00:27:00.786
I'm pulling for you," because the world needs the small city carriers as well.
00:27:01.435 --> 00:27:02.385
We really do.
00:27:02.455 --> 00:27:03.246
We really do.
00:27:03.965 --> 00:27:09.145
Um, when I, when I retire, I wanna fly on some of them just to support them.
00:27:10.276 --> 00:27:11.435
Hey, let's give it a shot.
00:27:11.455 --> 00:27:12.226
Let's go Tupelo.
00:27:18.434 --> 00:27:21.694
Um, I, I hope that made sense what I was saying there.
00:27:21.694 --> 00:27:35.505
I wasn't trying to go in a round about way, but, uh, anybody who knows me that listens to this will know that I probably used hand gestures about 2,000 times, and nobody can see it, because it is something I'm very passionate about, is what we're talking about.
00:27:35.555 --> 00:27:44.994
And, um, my, my, my wife, I'll go and tell you now, she was a Piedmont employee, um, wound up at Continental eventually.
00:27:45.944 --> 00:27:53.494
And she'll tell you real quick, Piedmont was a great airline, and you won't convince her no other way, because there's no other way it was.
00:27:54.275 --> 00:27:55.285
It was a great airline.
00:27:55.634 --> 00:28:02.073
And, um- We know some people who worked for them about the same time my wife did.
00:28:03.222 --> 00:28:05.522
And, um, we can go into...
00:28:05.843 --> 00:28:08.012
They have an aircraft memorabilia show coming up.
00:28:08.383 --> 00:28:10.383
It takes Joan an hour to get past the first table.
00:28:10.383 --> 00:28:10.603
Why?
00:28:10.623 --> 00:28:12.022
'Cause the first table's full of Piedmont people.
00:28:13.083 --> 00:28:14.232
She wears her Piedmont shirt.
00:28:15.573 --> 00:28:25.952
I tell, I say,"I'll see you later" But Piedmont was a family as well, and I didn't know anybody that worked for Southern or, uh, Ozark.
00:28:26.803 --> 00:28:32.623
Uh, but I, I knew people that worked for Piedmont, and I'm sure the other ones were a lot the same way,'cause that's just what they were.
00:28:32.623 --> 00:28:34.002
It was a big, it was a big family back then.
00:28:34.833 --> 00:28:37.782
And, um, Joan has...
00:28:37.792 --> 00:28:41.563
I d- Anthony knows this, I have a lot of memorabilia here, and some of it's Piedmont.
00:28:41.573 --> 00:28:42.982
All the Piedmont stuff's upstairs.
00:28:43.873 --> 00:28:46.073
It belongs to Joan, you know.
00:28:46.173 --> 00:28:47.472
And you'll see some pictures later.
00:28:48.042 --> 00:28:58.323
I brought two of the models downstairs, and I, I had to sign them out and put a deposit down to make sure I brought them back Make sure they're clean, too.
00:28:59.073 --> 00:28:59.093
Yeah.
00:28:59.103 --> 00:29:00.353
Oh, they're pristine.
00:29:00.393 --> 00:29:00.653
Yeah.
00:29:01.133 --> 00:29:06.653
I'll share some of those pictures of those models in this book you have here on my, uh, Best Aerospace Era page.
00:29:07.373 --> 00:29:09.323
Yeah, I know we talked about the, uh, NASCAR connection.
00:29:09.323 --> 00:29:13.073
I think I saw a screenshot of Piedmont's, uh, the official airliner of the NASCAR.
00:29:13.073 --> 00:29:14.032
I would never have imagined that.
00:29:14.032 --> 00:29:15.823
It, it, they came from NASCAR country.
00:29:15.823 --> 00:29:16.623
That's North Carolina.
00:29:16.633 --> 00:29:30.423
They, they came- Yes from NASCAR country, but from what I know, NASCAR people usually like to take an RV and go from city to city, but I can see if there's times when they want to fly, they're like,"Hey, I've seen this airline, so I'm gonna go fly them instead of, you know, one of the others".
00:29:30.682 --> 00:29:30.903
Yeah.
00:29:30.903 --> 00:29:40.923
And also you talk about the DC-3 is a perfect kind of airplane to start with the short, the short routes between smaller cities that, you know, the larger airlines, like we talked about before, aren't gonna touch.
00:29:40.932 --> 00:29:42.482
You, you can land a DC-3 anywhere.
00:29:42.603 --> 00:29:42.903
Yeah.
00:29:43.133 --> 00:29:43.692
They were tough.
00:29:43.823 --> 00:29:46.292
They, they proved themselves in, in, in, in World War II.
00:29:46.883 --> 00:29:47.413
Definitely.
00:29:48.002 --> 00:29:57.373
And also, I think we talked about, you know, some modern airlines, I think Breeze is one, and I think that CEO looks back to airlines like this and like,"Where are the big boys ain't flying?
00:29:57.772 --> 00:30:04.093
I'm gonna go to those cities and serve them because they're not being served, and I'm gonna have a business there,'cause no other airline's serving them".
00:30:04.942 --> 00:30:07.532
So that's kind of a strategy you see over and over again, and it obviously worked.
00:30:07.532 --> 00:30:12.553
I've seen, um, Piedmont actually grow up to be the eighth biggest airliner in the US at one point.
00:30:12.553 --> 00:30:13.502
Yes, at one time, yes.
00:30:13.573 --> 00:30:14.452
That's hard to crack.
00:30:15.153 --> 00:30:15.573
Yeah.
00:30:15.942 --> 00:30:19.633
And they had good routes, a lot of routes, and carriers wanted them.
00:30:24.833 --> 00:30:36.482
And th-th-that was about a time when a carrier that was a little bit bigger wanted extra routes and extra airplanes, and went after somebody that was doing really good.
00:30:37.432 --> 00:30:49.242
And when the US Air deal went through with Piedmont, Tom Davis had already stepped away from the table, which he probably, i- if he, and, and everybody has to retire eventually.
00:30:49.663 --> 00:30:52.883
If he could've stayed in there a few more years, Piedmont might've lasted a few more years.
00:30:53.553 --> 00:31:08.012
But thi- things change, and, um, it's, m- sometimes my wife and I will talk about it, and she'll, she'll get real quiet about it and start thinking about stuff, because that was a great time in her life.
00:31:08.042 --> 00:31:16.343
Now she retired 30-something years in the business,'cause she went to Continental and stayed there four more years after the United deal went through.
00:31:17.022 --> 00:31:29.121
So she had a, I mean, we, when we got married, we can talk in acronyms that nobody understands And, um, w- we tried to get her on the air, ladies and gentlemen.
00:31:29.121 --> 00:31:30.810
She will not come do that.
00:31:31.810 --> 00:31:34.040
I tried so, but she will not talk.
00:31:34.050 --> 00:31:40.310
But, you know, she's, she's a good da- I can ask her a Piedmont question today and she'll tell me, if it's something I need to ask her about.
00:31:41.401 --> 00:31:46.371
But, um, it's, y- I, it, it's...
00:31:46.391 --> 00:31:49.971
When I remember when I was growing up, Piedmont was, was big time.
00:31:49.971 --> 00:31:51.861
I flew them several times, my dad did.
00:31:52.740 --> 00:32:02.641
And, um, when they ceased to exist as far as Piedmont goes, I, I thought it was sad in my own right because I said,"Dang, what's happening here?
00:32:02.641 --> 00:32:04.060
They're a great airline." Great colors.
00:32:04.161 --> 00:32:04.851
Loved their colors.
00:32:04.851 --> 00:32:05.881
Their color schemes were great.
00:32:06.971 --> 00:32:13.171
And then as I got older and got into the business, I learned more about how much more of a business it was.
00:32:14.131 --> 00:32:15.730
And it's, it's n- it's not g- it's...
00:32:16.490 --> 00:32:19.191
Customer service is still there, it's kinda hard to find.
00:32:20.211 --> 00:32:25.250
You know, you don't, you don't talk to a human as much anymore, and I, I, I don't like that, you know?
00:32:25.260 --> 00:32:33.941
But a lot of these, back in the day, they were based on customer service to a point, and I think, I wish we could go back to that, but I don't know.
00:32:33.941 --> 00:32:38.750
Can anybody afford to go back to knowing your pilot's first name and you're a passenger?
00:32:38.770 --> 00:32:42.361
I don't know if you can or not, because the world moves too fast.
00:32:43.070 --> 00:32:43.691
Moves too fast.
00:32:44.441 --> 00:32:44.730
Definitely.
00:32:44.740 --> 00:32:46.191
We're too busy staring at our phones.
00:32:46.961 --> 00:32:47.250
Yeah.
00:32:47.310 --> 00:32:54.240
But, uh, one other fact I came across, I'm not, I can't confirm this, but I saw it, um, on one of the Piedmont Facebook pages.
00:32:54.911 --> 00:32:59.691
Piedmont operated the first ever all-female flight crew on a jet airliner in 1982.
00:33:00.310 --> 00:33:01.201
That's exactly right.
00:33:02.250 --> 00:33:03.181
So that's- That's exactly right.
00:33:03.961 --> 00:33:09.423
The, the complete one, let me pull up my notes here, Okay.
00:33:09.794 --> 00:33:21.844
The Piedmont Airlines all-female flight crew, July 2nd, 1982, when Flight 328 from Norfolk to Newark marked the airline's first all-female flight deck and cabin crew.
00:33:22.973 --> 00:33:40.624
First flight, 1982, was Captain Cheryl Fay Peters, First Officer Rebecca Rose Schroeder operated the cockpit, alongside flight attendants Paula Lanier, Dolly Winnatt, and Cindy Perry on a Boeing 737-200, and they were known for using all-female cre- crews throughout their history.
00:33:41.584 --> 00:33:44.314
But that was a milestone, and we just passed that recently, July the 2nd.
00:33:45.294 --> 00:33:46.034
July the 2nd.
00:33:46.034 --> 00:33:48.713
And a lot of hardworking women in aviation.
00:33:48.723 --> 00:33:52.163
You're gonna hopefully hear in this not too long future, have two of them on your show soon.
00:33:52.923 --> 00:33:54.884
So, uh, we can talk on that towards the end of it.
00:33:54.884 --> 00:33:58.963
Uh, just, I'm going past, uh, I'm not a very good guest, am I?
00:33:58.963 --> 00:34:00.794
I take, I take your notes- You're a good guest and just manipulate them.
00:34:03.213 --> 00:34:06.213
But, but hats off to everybody that works good in the industry.
00:34:06.624 --> 00:34:12.273
The, the, the women who have had to fought, have had to fight and fought hard to get where they are now, support them.
00:34:12.304 --> 00:34:15.204
I'm not s- I'm not scared to fly with an all-female flight crew.
00:34:15.804 --> 00:34:18.844
No, there's something kinda badass about a woman flying a jet fighter, in my book.
00:34:21.503 --> 00:34:21.534
Yes.
00:34:21.614 --> 00:34:27.434
Yeah, definitely give shout-out to all the females out there that, in aviation Now, we've talked about this before.
00:34:27.454 --> 00:34:39.893
In the 1980s, the premier airlines like Pan Am and Eastern, they were struggling financially, and they went out of business from different factors like deregulation, like you talked about, the economy, and also just changing passenger habits.
00:34:40.793 --> 00:34:43.414
So Piedmont failed in the'80s, but why is that?
00:34:43.824 --> 00:34:52.423
The, the'80s was a big, um, time of, of consolidation, because you had the, the Eastern doing their thing.
00:34:52.514 --> 00:34:56.443
Um, TWA beyond the'80s with, uh, the American.
00:34:56.454 --> 00:34:58.043
The American got a lot of carriers.
00:34:58.793 --> 00:35:03.664
Um, it, it had to do a lot with, with con- consolidation during the late'80s.
00:35:03.664 --> 00:35:12.844
Mergers were common as airlines sought to increase efficiency and market share, and that's where we come into talking about earlier about routes and stuff like that,'cause Spirit's no longer with us.
00:35:12.853 --> 00:35:19.574
Well, there's a scramble to try to get those routes in and out of the Caribbean down there, much less the slots up in the Newark area, LaGuardia.
00:35:20.554 --> 00:35:21.393
You know, which that's...
00:35:21.434 --> 00:35:22.213
it's all...
00:35:23.173 --> 00:35:26.623
man, a lot of stuff goes on in the airlines where there's rooms and no, no windows.
00:35:26.653 --> 00:35:27.313
You know what I mean?
00:35:28.434 --> 00:35:38.193
Um, you know, fi- financial pressures, the cost of fuel, uh, m- labor, cost of paying your, your employees.
00:35:38.784 --> 00:35:39.833
It's never gone down.
00:35:40.253 --> 00:35:43.583
If it goes down, you're not gonna be in business long, you know?
00:35:43.634 --> 00:35:53.864
'Cause a,'cause a worker making$42 an hour in the airline industry now is not gonna take a pay cut because gas went down or anything like that.
00:35:53.864 --> 00:35:54.474
No, they're gonna...
00:35:55.034 --> 00:35:57.974
because their food's not going down, you know?
00:35:58.463 --> 00:36:01.643
So then, you know, you got those pressures, and maintenance pressures.
00:36:02.563 --> 00:36:07.353
Uh, you can get a hammer at a hardware store for$8.
00:36:08.114 --> 00:36:14.224
You put aviation in front of that hammer, it's$408 for the same blooming hammer.
00:36:15.123 --> 00:36:18.313
It's just like it with the healthcare and military, same thing, you know?
00:36:18.983 --> 00:36:21.304
Um, strategic growth as well.
00:36:21.563 --> 00:36:23.193
Do we need these routes here?
00:36:23.213 --> 00:36:24.114
Do we want these routes?
00:36:24.114 --> 00:36:26.193
What can we grow from this route over here?
00:36:26.733 --> 00:36:28.463
So they look at some of their bigger cities.
00:36:28.463 --> 00:36:30.184
Oh, we can get into there more.
00:36:30.914 --> 00:36:32.824
You know, Piedmont was prevalent in Baltimore.
00:36:32.893 --> 00:36:35.403
Well, so was USA Air too, you know?
00:36:35.853 --> 00:36:37.014
And, um, the...
00:36:37.043 --> 00:36:42.873
'cause if one got the other, then they don't have to move too far down the road to occupy the homes.
00:36:43.063 --> 00:36:43.534
You know what I mean?
00:36:43.574 --> 00:36:44.503
They're all the gates right there.
00:36:46.217 --> 00:36:47.478
And I've worked at Baltimore Airport.
00:36:47.478 --> 00:36:52.438
I see some of the old gates that were there,'cause it's been a long time since I've been to the Baltimore Airport.
00:36:52.438 --> 00:37:01.407
But the, the merger with USAir allowed Piedmont to expand its reach and integrate into a larger network, but they just didn't keep the brand.
00:37:01.998 --> 00:37:03.057
It became USAir.
00:37:03.057 --> 00:37:04.777
It, it, it's what it did.
00:37:05.407 --> 00:37:12.097
And, um, th- this is just the, what's print- printed on paper.
00:37:12.318 --> 00:37:18.947
And it, USAir eventually got them and absorbed them, and they ceased to, um, exist as Piedmont Airlines.
00:37:18.947 --> 00:37:29.168
There is one called Piedmont Commuter now, but, um, it's not the same as the, as the Piedmont Airlines, even though it, it operates under the, under the same type name.
00:37:29.807 --> 00:37:41.117
You ever talk to a Piedmont employee, they'll give you a probably more in-depth than what I just gave you on that, and probably a little more colorful- with some of their comments on that.
00:37:41.137 --> 00:37:43.268
And, and we can't do that here.
00:37:44.027 --> 00:37:47.478
Um, but it's, it's consolidation.
00:37:48.027 --> 00:37:50.987
It, Anthony, it all boils down to competition.
00:37:52.318 --> 00:37:56.137
You know, how much more of a bigger dog am I than this person here?
00:37:56.378 --> 00:38:02.047
Or how much more can I absorb up over here and push this person out?
00:38:02.318 --> 00:38:14.668
A lot of big dogs on the porch, just how many of them wanna jump off and get in a fight, and how many of them just gonna, you know, sit back and go,"I don't have enough to be in this fight anymore." My opinion, that's pretty much what it boils down to.
00:38:15.347 --> 00:38:24.827
And I work in the industry, and sometimes I can sit and just, and just look at things and just go,"I d- don't know how much more longer they can do that." You know?
00:38:25.478 --> 00:38:38.818
And mergers, and takeovers, and buyouts, and, and going out of business, I, I'm blessed to have never been involved in anything that I've ever done career-wise in my life that I've had that an abrupt change.
00:38:38.827 --> 00:38:44.646
That's a life-changer My wife had her life changed twice with two different airlines.
00:38:45.295 --> 00:38:49.846
I know people that's only done one, but it's a bitter taste in their mouth.
00:38:50.476 --> 00:38:55.405
And it, it comes down to consolidation and competition.
00:38:56.496 --> 00:39:08.686
Um, and today with the, the media outlets and stuff that we have, something that us who have worked in the industry look at something and go,"Oh, that's very minor.
00:39:10.045 --> 00:39:29.106
That's very mi- that rarely ever happens," or,"That's something that's just minor enough it happens every now and then." The media will blow it up to where it's like an all-out war on something, and then that starts people who don't dig in and find the facts will say,"Well, I'm never gonna fly them again." Okay.
00:39:29.976 --> 00:39:34.085
But you, enough of that happens, you start getting a bad reputation.
00:39:34.115 --> 00:39:35.065
It can hurt you.
00:39:36.135 --> 00:39:40.916
It can hurt you, and I think maybe some of Spirit's problems was, was, was because of that.
00:39:41.675 --> 00:39:46.295
And, um,'cause I talked to some people recently that worked for Spirit.
00:39:46.876 --> 00:39:47.806
They were okay with them.
00:39:48.655 --> 00:39:56.295
But, you know, if you get a, if you get a black eye for whatever reason out there, the media's not gonna, not gonna let that go.
00:39:56.735 --> 00:40:11.936
And I didn't realize how, h- how many media outlets this world has got until I watched something on the news not too long ago, and they were, had all these, uh, news outlets that had given them content.
00:40:11.936 --> 00:40:17.556
I'm like,"I never heard of these." But there's thousands of people looking at it.
00:40:18.385 --> 00:40:25.565
And word, word of mouth and something w- that we see as minor can, can cause you problems down the road.
00:40:25.565 --> 00:40:25.695
Mm-hmm.
00:40:26.596 --> 00:40:32.275
And you're not only consolidated then, you're completely swallowed up out of business and taken over, and your planes are grounded.
00:40:32.576 --> 00:40:33.315
Mm-hmm.
00:40:33.726 --> 00:40:34.135
You know.
00:40:36.458 --> 00:40:40.559
And I'll say, I have been through a buyout and merger, but that's a story for another time.
00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:40.659
Mm-hmm.
00:40:40.659 --> 00:40:44.699
And we'll talk about that competition thing and about the market itself here in a moment.
00:40:44.998 --> 00:40:53.039
But for anyone who wants to learn more about Piedmont Airlines, there is a Facebook page called the, uh, Memory of Piedmont Airlines Facebook group if you wanna go check that out.
00:40:53.449 --> 00:40:55.398
Yeah, that- But it's different than the commuter airlines.
00:40:55.398 --> 00:40:59.929
There is a commuter airlines called Piedmont now, but that's, they just bought the name rights to Piedmont name.
00:40:59.938 --> 00:40:59.949
Mm.
00:40:59.958 --> 00:41:01.239
They're not the same company at all.
00:41:01.259 --> 00:41:05.079
They, Piedmont was already gone, and they just bought up the name because the name does mean something.
00:41:05.548 --> 00:41:05.579
Yes.
00:41:05.588 --> 00:41:06.748
Even though it's not the same company.
00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:08.759
They started out using Dash 7s.
00:41:09.518 --> 00:41:09.688
Yeah.
00:41:09.938 --> 00:41:10.199
Yeah.
00:41:11.311 --> 00:41:16.240
Now as we talked about, like, the mergers and everything, we have a lot of big airlines today.
00:41:16.981 --> 00:41:22.490
It's different than what we're talking about back in the, you know, my era, which is, you know, pre-1975.
00:41:22.490 --> 00:41:26.490
You had many airlines, like Pan Am, TWA, Piedmont, Delta.
00:41:26.490 --> 00:41:29.280
You had more airlines, and now we just have a lot of big airlines.
00:41:29.291 --> 00:41:35.581
Do you think the market's better this way with bigger airlines, or were we better off with multiple airlines with their own territories?
00:41:35.710 --> 00:41:38.940
I, I think the more competition you have, the better your product is.
00:41:39.630 --> 00:41:50.530
Um, if you've got five airlines that's flying to, from, say, Nashville to Chicago, you wanna fly on the one that's gonna be the best for you.
00:41:51.521 --> 00:42:00.951
Um, the competition to make passengers want to fly on them, whatever carrier it may be, is healthy, you know?
00:42:00.951 --> 00:42:04.501
So, oh, we offer this, that and the other in the cabin.
00:42:04.501 --> 00:42:07.061
We'll have free this or, or free that.
00:42:07.081 --> 00:42:16.001
Well, you know, you fly on us, buy one, get one free drinks, because all your soft drinks are gonna be free anyway.
00:42:16.860 --> 00:42:21.731
Uh, the, the lo- you used to get a meal between Chicago and Nashville on Delta.
00:42:22.641 --> 00:42:26.181
I flew with my parents several times, and we had chicken and roast beef.
00:42:26.210 --> 00:42:29.871
Seriously, it's a hour and, what, 20-minute flight, you know?
00:42:29.891 --> 00:42:33.811
You don't get a meal, uh, pretty much anywhere, unless you're going head overseas.
00:42:34.090 --> 00:42:39.331
Uh, uh, I, I've had some breakfast sandwiches on some morning flights to Texas.
00:42:40.331 --> 00:42:56.340
They were good, but it wasn't like- You know, I, I, I'm proof in the pudding that they don't sell, they don't serve food much anymore on domestic flights,'cause we have a whole cabinet full of airline china that used to be on planes going between New York, San Francisco.
00:42:56.920 --> 00:43:05.501
Um, I don't know if they serve any kind of meal on longer haul flights as far as, say, like, New York to Los Angeles or San Francisco or something.
00:43:05.501 --> 00:43:08.621
I d- That would be for somebody who's done that before.
00:43:08.621 --> 00:43:09.431
I, I don't know.
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:12.780
But I remember you used to get a meal on Delta from Nashville to Chicago.
00:43:13.190 --> 00:43:19.610
But the more airlines you have out there, yeah, you got a lot more airplanes in the air, but competition is healthy.
00:43:19.811 --> 00:43:23.271
I hate to see an airline go under, for several reasons.
00:43:23.740 --> 00:43:29.291
The employees, you hate to see them, all of a sudden,"I don't have a job." I pray for any of the airlines.
00:43:29.291 --> 00:43:31.110
I prayed hard for the people for Spirit.
00:43:31.931 --> 00:43:34.331
Uh, but you also see your competition.
00:43:34.931 --> 00:43:38.951
You know,"Well, hey, by golly, I ain't gotta try as hard to get these people to Chicago now.
00:43:38.951 --> 00:43:42.130
We lost an airline, and another one may be in trouble here soon.
00:43:42.601 --> 00:43:48.061
So, hey, we'll just serve you some apples, and here's some raisins." Uh, competition is healthy.
00:43:48.561 --> 00:43:52.190
I wanna see 30 airlines trying to get me the best way to Europe sometime.
00:43:53.240 --> 00:43:53.721
You know?
00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:57.740
Um, you don't wanna have state-run airlines.
00:43:58.931 --> 00:43:59.760
You don't want that.
00:44:00.780 --> 00:44:05.731
I've been in countries where they had a state-run airline, and I just go,"Wow, really?" You know?
00:44:06.630 --> 00:44:08.641
You, you don't, you don't want that.
00:44:09.210 --> 00:44:12.181
We have one of the best airline systems in the world in this country.
00:44:12.820 --> 00:44:14.880
Let's keep it that way, and part of that is competition.
00:44:15.771 --> 00:44:18.990
And you mentioned Breeze a little while ago, small up-and-coming carrier.
00:44:19.311 --> 00:44:23.081
Man, I wish them well, because that's competition for somebody.
00:44:24.081 --> 00:44:27.391
Um, was it, um, Avelo, Avelo?
00:44:27.391 --> 00:44:28.300
They're coming around.
00:44:28.811 --> 00:44:29.931
They're in Nashville quite a bit.
00:44:29.931 --> 00:44:30.541
They're coming around.
00:44:30.541 --> 00:44:31.650
I think they're based out of Houston.
00:44:32.471 --> 00:44:35.650
Um, as a matter of fact, they bought some old Southwest 37s.
00:44:36.581 --> 00:44:41.612
And, um, they're- You know, they're starting to make a little noise in some places.
00:44:41.992 --> 00:44:44.862
They got a big billboard on the interstate near the Nashville airport.
00:44:45.202 --> 00:44:47.842
Man, there hadn't been an airline billboard around that airport in a while.
00:44:48.431 --> 00:44:51.322
So you're having to spend money to keep yourself competitive.
00:44:51.961 --> 00:44:52.891
Competition's healthy.
00:44:54.041 --> 00:44:54.572
It is.
00:44:54.762 --> 00:44:56.092
It's, it, it, it's real healthy.
00:44:56.391 --> 00:44:58.402
It, it, can, can it get watered down?
00:44:58.492 --> 00:45:04.181
Yeah, it can get watered down, but you gotta have the right people in the right places in your office to make sure it doesn't get watered down.
00:45:05.442 --> 00:45:08.942
Because I want 30 airlines competing for my business to London.
00:45:09.882 --> 00:45:10.211
I do.
00:45:10.882 --> 00:45:16.141
And I'll go with the one that I think is best for me, and if it ain't good, I'll go somewhere else.
00:45:16.141 --> 00:45:17.601
But I want that competition.
00:45:18.271 --> 00:45:19.021
I want the competition.
00:45:19.032 --> 00:45:23.862
You go into a grocery store, there's not one or two kinds of soda, there's a whole aisle of sodas, some I've never heard of.
00:45:25.211 --> 00:45:26.771
You know, that's called competition.
00:45:27.492 --> 00:45:30.041
There's seven grocery stores within five miles of each other.
00:45:30.041 --> 00:45:35.612
They're all different ones, but it's competitive and it's healthy, and they try to bring the savings of the food prices to you.
00:45:35.621 --> 00:45:38.731
The more competition you got, the lower your ticket prices are.
00:45:38.992 --> 00:45:43.001
Now, you got problems with your, uh, fuel.
00:45:43.192 --> 00:45:44.402
Man, that's a whole nother ballgame.
00:45:44.512 --> 00:45:46.692
There's a whole team of lawyers that deal with that right there.
00:45:46.902 --> 00:45:48.501
So that factors into your tickets.
00:45:48.541 --> 00:45:50.742
But still, competition.
00:45:50.742 --> 00:45:54.952
And then you, you know, there's, there's one airline out there that likes to hedge their fuel.
00:45:55.001 --> 00:45:55.831
Well, that's a smart move.
00:45:56.702 --> 00:46:01.561
I don't know how much they do it now, but back in the day, they hedged the heck out of it, and that's why they kept their tickets prices so low.
00:46:02.242 --> 00:46:11.121
And they keep ticket prices low by giving you less, giving you less, or charging you for a bag of potato chips on some flights.
00:46:11.661 --> 00:46:12.581
Well, I'm gonna bring my own.
00:46:13.641 --> 00:46:14.121
You know?
00:46:14.192 --> 00:46:20.137
So, flying is, it needs to be super competitive.
00:46:20.137 --> 00:46:23.467
It needs to have the more food options.
00:46:23.467 --> 00:46:25.717
It needs to have the softer seats.
00:46:25.726 --> 00:46:31.907
It needs to have people smiling on the th- on the planes again, you know?
00:46:31.936 --> 00:46:33.967
I mean, just getting to the airport alone is a chore.
00:46:35.237 --> 00:46:35.856
You know?
00:46:35.996 --> 00:46:37.527
Yeah, you go through TSA.
00:46:37.757 --> 00:46:39.047
That's a necessary thing.
00:46:39.367 --> 00:46:41.126
Ever since 9/11, we've had to have that.
00:46:41.516 --> 00:46:44.577
And by the way, thank you to all the TSA agents, too.
00:46:44.867 --> 00:46:46.086
They go through a lot of stuff.
00:46:46.297 --> 00:46:48.806
I get to the airport, I'm, I'm gonna leave the airport in a little bit.
00:46:49.266 --> 00:46:51.447
No, man, they got eight, 10 hours of it.
00:46:52.237 --> 00:46:54.536
So, you know, shout out to those people.
00:46:54.777 --> 00:46:57.297
I'm, I'm glad you're here, you know?
00:46:57.327 --> 00:47:01.637
So, I think competition is needed, Anthony.
00:47:01.637 --> 00:47:02.766
I w- I'd like to see more of it.
00:47:02.766 --> 00:47:03.806
Unfortunately, I don't think we're going to.
00:47:04.757 --> 00:47:07.266
Yeah, not the way things are going right now, it doesn't look that way.
00:47:08.036 --> 00:47:09.427
Well, I wanna thank you for coming on.
00:47:09.536 --> 00:47:12.726
But before we go, do you wanna tell everybody what your plans are for next year?
00:47:13.436 --> 00:47:13.927
Yes.
00:47:13.956 --> 00:47:16.067
I'm gonna retire from my airline job.
00:47:17.806 --> 00:47:19.487
Maybe then I'll tell you who I work for.
00:47:20.827 --> 00:47:24.817
But, as, I spent time, as Anthony said earlier, in radio.
00:47:25.476 --> 00:47:30.896
And, um, I've had three full-time jobs, family farm, radio, and the airline business.
00:47:31.507 --> 00:47:40.567
So I'm gonna start my own podcast, mainly because of my wife doesn't want me bored out of my mind when I retire.
00:47:41.507 --> 00:47:48.686
But it ge- it keeps me in touch with the industry, and people like you people out there, ladies and gentlemen, listening to this podcast, whatever you're doing.
00:47:49.927 --> 00:48:01.186
I stay in touch with people like Anthony, um, Audrey, who used to work in the airline business, um, still in the travel industry with, uh, the, her, her hotels.
00:48:01.186 --> 00:48:02.146
That's, that's fantastic.
00:48:02.737 --> 00:48:08.626
Um, the guys I work with, they're gonna be part of the show sometimes.
00:48:08.706 --> 00:48:13.967
If you want some aviation comedy mayhem, you, you listen to that round, you listen to that roundtable a bunch.
00:48:13.967 --> 00:48:14.487
Anthony knows.
00:48:14.487 --> 00:48:14.856
And Mr.
00:48:14.856 --> 00:48:16.336
Anthony's gonna be a part of the show.
00:48:16.916 --> 00:48:22.717
Um, I already have my logo out, and it's gonna be, um, Sky Pirates Radio.
00:48:22.996 --> 00:48:23.717
That's what it's gonna be.
00:48:24.356 --> 00:48:28.387
And, uh, that's part of the, part, part of my old crew that I work with.
00:48:28.416 --> 00:48:29.677
We have our own patches.
00:48:30.626 --> 00:48:34.757
Um, you're fixing to mention two people in an aviation race.
00:48:34.757 --> 00:48:36.376
They had one of our stickers on the airplane.
00:48:37.266 --> 00:48:44.137
And, uh, I'm, I want, Anthony, I want you as a guest on my show, and I wanna continue to be a guest on yours.
00:48:44.166 --> 00:48:48.217
And I'm gonna promote your show, and I'm gonna go and charge you a Coca-Cola.
00:48:48.496 --> 00:48:51.206
Um Can't go wrong with a Coke.
00:48:51.586 --> 00:48:52.967
No, nothing wrong with a Coke at all.
00:48:52.967 --> 00:49:02.317
And oh, hey, by the way, coming up August 28th in Cleveland, if you're in that area, Strongsville, at the Best Western Plus, the Cleveland Airline memorabilia show.
00:49:02.317 --> 00:49:04.577
Bob Palermo and the gang put on a great show there.
00:49:04.927 --> 00:49:05.947
I will be there.
00:49:05.996 --> 00:49:07.657
One of the guys in my crew is gonna be there.
00:49:07.936 --> 00:49:10.556
My wife's gonna be there if you wanna talk Piedmont Airlines.
00:49:10.556 --> 00:49:13.496
She'll meet you at the door with her shirt on, and you just sit down and have a cup of coffee.
00:49:14.396 --> 00:49:16.367
That's coming up in Cleveland, August the 28th.
00:49:16.416 --> 00:49:18.626
I like to push that show because that's one of my favorites.
00:49:20.166 --> 00:49:20.527
Excellent.
00:49:20.547 --> 00:49:21.967
Well, nice having you on.
00:49:22.106 --> 00:49:22.956
We'll do it again sometime.
00:49:23.027 --> 00:49:24.166
Any, any time, Anthony.
00:49:24.186 --> 00:49:26.706
And, uh, shout out to our air traffic controllers.
00:49:27.867 --> 00:49:30.106
You know, thank you for everything that you have to do.
00:49:30.376 --> 00:49:31.336
Appreciate you guys.
00:49:34.059 --> 00:49:38.650
Thank you so much for listening, and remember, there's always a light at the end of the runway.
00:49:39.465 --> 00:49:43.726
Follow the mansplaining podcast for more stories from the Best Aerospace Era.
00:49:44.106 --> 00:49:47.896
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