WEBVTT
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00:00:06.337This week's Life Note. Hard conversations. Sometimes we just really need to have them.
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00:00:53.840Music.
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00:00:17.577Welcome to Life Notes from Chair 17, a podcast dedicated to sharing life stories,
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00:00:21.317wisdoms, and inspirations as we navigate life's journey.
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00:00:58.477Alrighty, welcome back in, friends, to another episode of Live Notes from Chair
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00:01:03.43717. I'm your host, C.H., and I thank you once again for finding me in this corner
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00:02:11.438So this episode, called Hard Conversations,
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00:02:19.978and I have to say that this episode has been on my content calendar list of
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00:02:23.858episodes to record for probably over a year.
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00:02:31.198It was one of the first ones that was very easy for me to put down on my list
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00:02:36.118of things that I thought would make good episodes because I think in terms of
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00:02:39.878life journeys and things that we obviously learn or lessons,
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00:02:45.118maybe some wisdoms we gain, some of those have probably come from hard conversations.
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00:02:52.978But it actually has come up kind of recently, I think, within my own day-to-day.
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00:03:00.218It's both in a personal sense but also in a work sense.
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00:03:05.078And so no better time than the present to finally get around to talking about
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00:03:10.418it and kind of what it means to me and how I had to learn about it and how I've
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00:03:12.118tried to approach having them.
00:03:13.938 -->
00:03:19.558And kind of like the phrase seems to suggest, hard conversations,
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00:03:23.578these are conversations that we know we need to have,
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00:03:27.918but they're probably going to be difficult,
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00:03:35.638maybe emotionally difficult maybe mentally difficult there could be a range
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00:03:41.358of reasons why they are difficult and they can be both from a maybe you're having
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00:03:43.038a really hard time at work.
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00:03:50.448And the people that you're working with, or there is sort of unspoken disagreement
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00:03:56.748or conflict, or just it's not flowing the way that it should,
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00:04:01.528and there is a sense we all need to get in a room and talk about it.
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00:04:06.468Maybe that is also something that is occurring in your personal sphere.
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00:04:13.768It could be maybe with friends or friendships. It could be within a family structure.
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00:04:22.068It could be in either sphere, right? So work professional sphere or we'll call it personal sphere.
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00:04:29.928And the way that the term hard conversations came to me was actually several
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00:04:31.988years ago in a working environment.
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00:04:40.228It was as I was really leaning into my day job, or I think I would probably
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00:04:45.968say really getting into the groove of becoming a project manager.
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00:04:51.588And I was in a meeting with someone. The person goes, sounds like we need to
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00:04:52.548have a hard conversation.
00:04:53.968 -->
00:04:57.388And I thought, hard conversation? I like that term.
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00:05:01.668For reference, it was not directed at me. This was more of a,
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00:05:07.648we were kind of having, I think, an assessment of where we were in the project
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00:05:12.248and sort of where people were at the stages of work they needed to be doing
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00:05:16.628and kind of the partnerships going on and the stakeholders and all this other sort of stuff.
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00:05:24.688And I remember my co-teammate said that phrase, I think we need to have a hard conversation.
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00:05:29.993And it's one of those things, you know, when you kind of file it away and go,
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00:05:31.793I'm going to remember that term.
00:05:32.533 -->
00:05:41.653I like that because it's a way in which to, I would say, gently but firmly put
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00:05:46.413out into the space that you're probably going to need to have the conversation with.
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00:05:51.813That's not going to maybe make people not want to have the conversation, right?
00:05:51.813 -->
00:05:58.873There's the word hard at the beginning of the phrase, which suggests maybe we're
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00:06:00.953at a place where we're not agreeing,
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00:06:05.893or we're at a place where we don't see eye to eye, or we need to—you have one
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00:06:07.313point of view, I have a different point of view.
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00:06:13.993But then the second part of the phrase, conversation, is a more open word, I would argue.
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00:06:21.613And it is inviting a discussion and a coming together to talk about it,
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00:06:23.253even if it might be difficult.
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00:06:27.433And I think that's why I like that term.
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00:06:32.073And so we did ultimately have a hard conversation for this project,
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00:06:36.213and it was pretty intense, but it got us to where we needed to be.
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00:06:39.693It got us to move forward.
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00:06:45.933We got past some of our quote-unquote blockers or the things that were causing
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00:06:50.413the friction amongst the team and the teamwork, and we got there.
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00:06:52.873And I've kept that conversation.
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00:06:57.843Pretty much since I first heard that phrase, which is probably going on,
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00:07:00.523I would say, at least 10 years now.
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00:07:07.683And I've used it a lot in a working sense, because again, day-to-day as a project
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00:07:14.303manager, your job, part of the job, is you have to resolve conflict, right?
00:07:14.303 -->
00:07:19.823You are tasked with directing something from start to finish,
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00:07:24.763getting the work across the finish line, making sure all the folks that are
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00:07:28.863supporting the work are doing what they need to do.
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00:07:31.463They're supported in the way they need to be supported.
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00:07:36.823You also are managing expectations of stakeholders and unexpected,
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00:07:44.243let's say, changes or asks or maybe things that could derail your team to get the work done.
00:07:44.343 -->
00:07:49.843There's just a litany of things that as a PM, project manager,
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00:07:52.503you are in the hot seat four.
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00:07:57.863This is why I often refer to project management as air traffic control.
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00:08:06.123So you're this central person that is monitoring all of these things going on, like at an airport.
00:08:06.363 -->
00:08:11.683There's planes taking off. There's planes landing. There's planes flying through the airspace.
00:08:11.923 -->
00:08:17.483There's planes taxiing. There's planes waiting for clearance to take off on the runway.
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00:08:24.123A very organized sense of multiple disciplines happening in multiple spaces,
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00:08:32.023moving at multiple speeds to ultimately be successful in a delivery of something.
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00:08:36.443In case of, you know, aircraft and airplanes and travel, we're trying to get
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00:08:37.963people from point A to point B.
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00:08:44.983We're trying to do that in a way that isn't going to see lots of delays or have, unfortunate,
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00:08:49.163a really bad accident, which we never want or you
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00:08:51.923know having planes confused and they don't know where they need to
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00:08:55.143go when they land not saying that some of
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00:09:00.743these things don't happen but the idea is that there is someone sort of centrally
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00:09:08.323kind of trying to keep that traffic control in an organized way and get in front
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00:09:14.983of being able to identify if something is going to be a problem or.
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00:09:18.962A conflict we would say in in the way that i'm
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00:09:21.642referring to hard conversations and kind of
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00:09:25.402the role that a pm would play to have those hard conversations with
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00:09:28.602project team members or stakeholders or whatnot
00:09:28.602 -->
00:09:32.002but what i've learned is that not
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00:09:35.082everyone wants to have them
00:09:35.082 -->
00:09:38.762so what i mean by that is you
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00:09:42.842can be the person that recognizes
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00:09:47.622the need to have it but when
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00:09:51.002you say it out loud whether it is in a working environment
00:09:51.002 -->
00:09:57.162or a personal environment people if they are not comfortable with conflict if
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00:10:01.242they're not comfortable with confrontation if they're not comfortable kind of
00:10:01.242 -->
00:10:05.582okay we got to get in a room and kind of work through this they just kind of
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00:10:08.222go blank or they get sort of, oh,
00:10:08.562 -->
00:10:10.922what does that mean, hard conversation?
00:10:11.182 -->
00:10:15.522I'm, hmm, that sounds kind of scary. And I've had that too, where.
00:10:15.962 -->
00:10:19.742You know, you're in a meeting or you're maybe not in a meeting,
00:10:19.762 -->
00:10:24.802but you're in a situation where you say the phrase or I say the phrase,
00:10:24.802 -->
00:10:27.182I think we're probably going to need to have a hard conversation.
00:10:27.422 -->
00:10:31.682And you'll see people nod and you'll see people go, yeah, that sounds right.
00:10:31.682 -->
00:10:36.442But they don't want to initiate it. They don't want to start it.
00:10:36.622 -->
00:10:40.362They don't want to take ownership to go and plan to have it.
00:10:40.522 -->
00:10:45.022And what that has helped teach me is.
00:10:46.311 -->
00:10:51.511As if I'm calling out the obvious, but I'm also bringing it to the surface in
00:10:51.511 -->
00:10:57.251a way that is sort of that saying of see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, right?
00:10:57.491 -->
00:11:00.771If I don't see it, if I don't hear it, if I don't speak it, then it must not exist.
00:11:01.291 -->
00:11:06.671Or if I just pretend that it isn't a problem, then the problem will go away.
00:11:07.111 -->
00:11:12.251We have a funny saying as well, my good friend Cindy and I, we call this ostrich
00:11:12.251 -->
00:11:15.231syndrome, where you stick your head in the sand and you just pretend.
00:11:16.311 -->
00:11:20.751That nothing is, you know, everything's fine, everything sunsets and rainbows,
00:11:20.851 -->
00:11:25.511and if I just ignore it, it will just somehow magically resolve itself.
00:11:25.831 -->
00:11:31.431And I'm sure there are many of you out there know and have experienced that
00:11:31.431 -->
00:11:33.151doesn't generally go very well.
00:11:33.411 -->
00:11:38.751When it doesn't get resolved, it just festers, and it just kind of sits there,
00:11:38.871 -->
00:11:42.291and there's something that reminds you every so often.
00:11:42.291 -->
00:11:46.191This is still not resolved, and it still needs to be addressed,
00:11:46.311 -->
00:11:48.511and it still needs to be dealt with.
00:11:48.631 -->
00:11:56.291And you can kind of distract yourself in a way with other things that will tell you,
00:11:56.431 -->
00:11:59.571ah, no, everything's fine, but then something comes back up,
00:11:59.631 -->
00:12:05.231and something rises out of the sand, where even if you are the ostrich,
00:12:05.251 -->
00:12:08.151and you've got your head in the sand a little bit further away from there,
00:12:08.331 -->
00:12:11.371it comes and taps you on the leg and goes, ah,
00:12:11.671 -->
00:12:14.711nope, sorry, haven't quite resolved this. You still need to deal.
00:12:15.351 -->
00:12:23.191And as I've gotten older, I find that I am more willing to have those conversations.
00:12:23.211 -->
00:12:26.511I think when I was younger, I was not.
00:12:27.631 -->
00:12:33.091And it was for various reasons. I would say that I was always a direct person.
00:12:33.291 -->
00:12:39.351Those of you who have listening and who actually know me in real life know that
00:12:39.351 -->
00:12:43.051I can be very direct and forward, but not in a rude way,
00:12:43.291 -->
00:12:51.371just I'm okay bringing up things that maybe other folks aren't used to bringing up or talking about.
00:12:51.651 -->
00:12:58.991I've had people tell me that I create a space of safety or they feel comfortable
00:12:58.991 -->
00:13:02.771in telling me things that they would not tell anybody else,
00:13:02.771 -->
00:13:10.051and I really take that to heart and appreciate that I, in just how I am,
00:13:10.731 -->
00:13:17.851that I somehow allow folks to feel they can open up or they can talk or they can share.
00:13:18.491 -->
00:13:24.311And in learning this as I've gotten older and in kind of embracing,
00:13:24.791 -->
00:13:28.891I would maybe call myself the hard conversation whisperer, I don't know,
00:13:29.071 -->
00:13:35.351I've taken that feedback, and I use it very importantly,
00:13:35.891 -->
00:13:39.851or keenly, I would say, when I go in to have these hard conversations.
00:13:39.851 -->
00:13:42.411I'm not in there to...
00:13:43.647 -->
00:13:47.007Berate people or yell at people or
00:13:47.007 -->
00:13:50.247make it a hostile environment
00:13:50.247 -->
00:13:53.087because at that point you're not actually going
00:13:53.087 -->
00:13:56.267to get to the core of whatever the issue is
00:13:56.267 -->
00:14:01.207or the core of whatever the discussion needs to be people are just going to
00:14:01.207 -->
00:14:04.647put their guard up they're going to get defensive nobody's going to talk people
00:14:04.647 -->
00:14:08.687are going to get maybe feelings are going to be hurt or people are just not
00:14:08.687 -->
00:14:13.887the the goal of the conversation is going to be immediately be kind of shot to heck right?
00:14:14.487 -->
00:14:20.627You've essentially, everybody has not felt as if the space is safe and you can
00:14:20.627 -->
00:14:23.527have the conversation and you can move forward from there.
00:14:24.167 -->
00:14:29.127And this goes for whether or not you're having this in a working environment
00:14:29.127 -->
00:14:32.147or a personal environment. It's not always easy.
00:14:32.287 -->
00:14:36.967I think it's sometimes even harder to have it in a personal environment or within
00:14:36.967 -->
00:14:40.907a family environment or within a where you really,
00:14:41.127 -->
00:14:46.627really are close to the person because a lot of additional emotions and feelings
00:14:46.627 -->
00:14:54.147get involved and they can be easily hurt or they can be easily maybe offended.
00:14:55.147 -->
00:15:01.507And what I would say to that is it still is important to try to have the conversation
00:15:01.507 -->
00:15:06.987because what I've gotten to at this point in my life is if I have at least tried
00:15:06.987 -->
00:15:08.247to have the conversation,
00:15:08.487 -->
00:15:12.487identified why we need to have it from the get-go or the outset,
00:15:12.487 -->
00:15:17.807we need to have a hard conversation about X, Y, Z, and I have at least put my
00:15:17.807 -->
00:15:21.407foot forward, my best foot forward to have that conversation,
00:15:21.627 -->
00:15:27.087then I have done what I believe I can do to try to move us to next,
00:15:27.107 -->
00:15:28.967as I love to use this phrase,
00:15:29.207 -->
00:15:32.907move us to next, or as I learned another phrase that I loved,
00:15:33.447 -->
00:15:38.767back at the same job where I learned the hard conversation conversation, a path forward, right?
00:15:38.987 -->
00:15:42.627There is a path forward, or at least by having the hard conversation,
00:15:42.627 -->
00:15:44.647we are trying to find the path forward.
00:15:45.927 -->
00:15:50.367It doesn't mean it's always going to go well, and it doesn't mean that it's
00:15:50.367 -->
00:15:55.747always going to get resolved or that you are going to come out and it will be
00:15:55.747 -->
00:15:57.027all sunsets and rainbows.
00:15:58.427 -->
00:16:04.047But an effort has been made to get there, And an effort has been made to at
00:16:04.047 -->
00:16:09.347least have the communication, to create the space,
00:16:09.507 -->
00:16:13.427to have the conversation, to talk about something that's difficult,
00:16:13.427 -->
00:16:20.927and with the hope and the good intent of moving on from there.
00:16:22.384 -->
00:16:28.384But if it doesn't work out, and the conversation doesn't end in the way everyone
00:16:28.384 -->
00:16:32.784maybe had hoped, or maybe if you were the instigator of the conversation,
00:16:33.404 -->
00:16:38.124as I often am, and it doesn't end up where it needs to end up,
00:16:38.364 -->
00:16:41.824sometimes that is a closure moment.
00:16:42.024 -->
00:16:48.224In a work situation, it's probably a little bit different because you oftentimes
00:16:48.224 -->
00:16:55.184are trying to find a solution for a piece of work that has to either get done or, again,
00:16:55.744 -->
00:16:57.624in my case, a project that needs to get to be done.
00:16:57.724 -->
00:17:02.944So there has to be some kind of resolution that comes out of the conversation.
00:17:03.964 -->
00:17:07.764Sometimes, though, in a family or friendship situation, that doesn't always occur.
00:17:08.204 -->
00:17:13.424You might be trying to resolve a conflict within a family situation or a friend
00:17:13.424 -->
00:17:18.024situation or talk about something that really bothers you or has been bothering
00:17:18.024 -->
00:17:19.564you, and it doesn't resolve.
00:17:19.964 -->
00:17:23.144It stays unresolved.
00:17:24.304 -->
00:17:27.164But you made the effort, and you tried.
00:17:28.146 -->
00:17:34.406And there is a way sometimes in a hard conversation, which I've had recently,
00:17:34.406 -->
00:17:38.906too, where I've had to kind of put to someone, listen,
00:17:39.626 -->
00:17:43.366hey, this is not kind of what I'm expecting us to be.
00:17:45.346 -->
00:17:52.826And if you are not okay with kind of what we feel we need to be to each other,
00:17:52.966 -->
00:17:56.546you have a different feeling about it than I do.
00:17:56.686 -->
00:17:59.246That's okay. hey, I don't wish you any ill will.
00:17:59.406 -->
00:18:06.786I think then we just need to, you know, gently part ways here and go on and go forth and prosper.
00:18:07.006 -->
00:18:10.506And at least we talked about it and we got to a good place about it.
00:18:10.606 -->
00:18:20.226And we don't essentially leave each other to be angry or resentful or hurt or something.
00:18:20.586 -->
00:18:25.646I have spent too much time in my life where that has been true because I did
00:18:25.646 -->
00:18:28.206grow up in a family where we just didn't talk about stuff.
00:18:28.486 -->
00:18:33.546And we sure as heck didn't talk about stuff that was really not appropriate
00:18:33.546 -->
00:18:40.086family behavior, where there was a lot of shouting and yelling and anger and things.
00:18:40.246 -->
00:18:47.026Like, no, not okay. And I often think about myself today and how I would have
00:18:47.026 -->
00:18:53.066been a much different participant in that back then,
00:18:53.066 -->
00:18:55.466trying to actually stop it from happening.
00:18:56.046 -->
00:19:02.306Call people out on their BS, get people to a table, and be direct with what
00:19:02.306 -->
00:19:03.986in the world is going on here.
00:19:04.046 -->
00:19:09.506I really sometimes wish I could go back and tell my teenage girl self that you
00:19:09.506 -->
00:19:13.066will get to a place where you will find your voice and you will know how to use it,
00:19:13.146 -->
00:19:17.806and you will not create situations where people do not feel like they can also
00:19:17.806 -->
00:19:22.586express their opinion in a respectful way or and non-anger way.
00:19:23.006 -->
00:19:25.666Love to tell her that, but alas, I digress.
00:19:26.166 -->
00:19:29.946It's still okay that you try to have the conversation if it doesn't even,
00:19:30.106 -->
00:19:32.526if it doesn't resolve itself in the way that you hope.
00:19:33.166 -->
00:19:40.026Because a lot, I would say almost 80% of it is initially putting the time together
00:19:40.026 -->
00:19:49.246to have it and finding a way in which to have it be okay within you,
00:19:49.446 -->
00:19:53.006but also okay within either the group or the other person.
00:19:53.286 -->
00:19:59.266And coming to either that agreement or that new path forward,
00:19:59.486 -->
00:20:02.766or also just allowing closure.
00:20:03.286 -->
00:20:12.386In my opinion, a hard conversation can lead to both. and it can lead to a type of resolution.
00:20:13.517 -->
00:20:19.657That can be helpful, whether it is on a path or closing a chapter.
00:20:19.917 -->
00:20:24.057And so if you take anything away from this episode about,
00:20:24.637 -->
00:20:31.237is there something in your life right now that maybe you probably need to have
00:20:31.237 -->
00:20:32.677that hard conversation about,
00:20:32.897 -->
00:20:37.217think about it for a little bit and think about how maybe to bring that person
00:20:37.217 -->
00:20:44.597to the table to create the safe space to have the conversation about whatever it is,
00:20:44.857 -->
00:20:52.097and also to trust in yourself and in what you want to say.
00:20:52.457 -->
00:21:00.077And if it doesn't end up being a path forward, you at least have potentially
00:21:00.077 -->
00:21:04.257created resolution and a chapter that closes.
00:21:04.277 -->
00:21:06.837And then you move on from there.
00:21:07.017 -->
00:21:11.697Maybe it's not both of you or all of you moving on, but you can.
00:21:11.937 -->
00:21:20.577And it doesn't sit unresolved for years at a time, which we're all guilty of, myself included.
00:21:21.037 -->
00:21:28.017But it's something I'm trying to be better at, particularly as I get older,
00:21:28.017 -->
00:21:35.077and also influenced highly by how I have to do this more regularly in a day-to-day job.
00:21:35.357 -->
00:21:41.297I think it's actually made me better in my own personal life because I have
00:21:41.297 -->
00:21:44.637to do it so much in my day-to-day job life.
00:21:45.017 -->
00:21:52.257May not be true for you, and that's okay, but hard conversations are not something to be avoided,
00:21:52.257 -->
00:22:00.557and they are something that can often get us to a better place if we have the courage to have them.
00:22:01.277 -->
00:22:04.877And with that, as always, ask you to be kind to yourself.
00:22:05.017 -->
00:22:09.837Take it one hour at a time, one day at a time, and I will see you next time.
00:22:11.280 -->
00:22:31.178Music.