Jeanette: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Between the Lines, my podcast. I will be interviewing Wayne Elderkin today. He is the author of the novel The Last Disposini. May or may not be saying that right, but you know me long enough. So we're gonna get there. super excited. He's got a lot of characters in this book. He's got some of my favorite things in this book, which is vampires, ghosts, all the things. it took a lot for somebody to put all of that together and to make it into such a cohesive piece. I'm very excited to talk to him about that and to learn more about where that came from. My co host Rich Kopaz will be joining us and I would love it if all of you would give Wayne a nice big kind of applause. Good morning everyone and Welcome to Between the Lines, my podcast. You can see my host, Rich Kopaz. Today he is to the right of me. Maybe he'll be above my head later on. It all depends on how this works out. today we will be interviewing Wayne Elderkin, author of, and I'm gonna say it the first time, but you're probably going to correct me. The last Despicini.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: So you're saying it correct. There are two ways to say it. and I kept researching like crazy. And my friends and family said they like how I say despassani, they feel like it's it rolls off the tongue better. But I think scholars would correct me and say despassini. So when I asked Google, how do I say this? Can you repeat it back to me? They said there were two ways, but it did like your way as the correct. pronunciation. However, always say desposani because people understand it better. if you
Jeanette: Okay. I I like the way Despasani sounds. yeah, it does. It totally does. welcome to the show. And please say hello and Rich also welcome to the show. I think I did it in backwards order, but you know what? It's been a long two weeks, so
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Sounds cooler.
Hezr: we were so chomping at the bit to get that pronunciation
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, it's a tough one. my uncle was like, Isn't that plural? shouldn't you say despasan I? And I'm like, No, we're getting too complicated. said, Let's just leave it at that. And of course he's like, a genius. So he's reading it going, I think you should change I said, No, that's cool. not gonna do the plural the pluralized form of the word 'cause it looks ridiculous.
Jeanette: So Rich had a good question before you got on. Where did that come from? that's an actual thing, right?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, so tell you a quick version my family and friends have heard this story a million times, but so Kevin Smith, the director of Clerk, Small Rats, Dogma, Chasing Amy, he was like a hero of mine when I was in my twenties. So fifty now, so In my twenties, I worked at Blockbuster Video. So all of us that worked at Blockbuster Video, we thought we were gonna be the next Spielberg Lucas or what have you. So Kevin Smith was my guy. So I wrote him a letter asking for advice. And he literally called me four months later while I was working at Blockbuster Video. And it was, if you guys remember Blockbuster, on Saturdays or Fridays, it was ridiculously busy. So I pick up the phone, I do my normal, hey, you know, thanks for calling Blockbuster Video. This is Wayne. How can I help you? And then he's like, Hi, can I speak to Wayne Elderkin? And whenever someone says my name like that, I know they don't know who I am. And they're obviously reading it. then I'm yeah, this is Wayne. And then And he says, yeah, this is Kevin Smith. I have your letter. I'm just calling you. And I was just flabbergasted. I didn't say anything. And then I'm
Hezr: So,
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: like, are you shitting me? And then he
Jeanette: HOOOO
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: goes, no, I wouldn't shit you about something like that. And then he's like, I have your letter. And I'm like Okay. And then he's like, the reason I called you was because didn't ask to be in a movie. You didn't ask me to read your script or what have just asked for advice. goes, So I'm giving some kid from Rhode Island advice. And then he gave he talked to me for about 10 minutes. I think he smoked three cigarettes in that 10 minute span. and the funny part of that was he called my house. Because I didn't give him my number at Blockbuster Video. He called my home. And my brother, who must have been, eight years younger than me. So if I was eighteen, he was probably ten when he answered. And he's like, No, Wayne's at work. And then Kevin was like, Is that at Blockbuster Video? Because I put that in letter. And he goes, Yeah. And he goes, What's the phone number? And my brother never knew who that guy was. He just gave him the phone number and said, Yeah, you can call him there. So the reason I bring up Kevin Smith, go ahead, Rick.
Hezr: He's like, hey, what's looking for?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, it was crazy. So that was my fifteen minutes of fame. And then the reason I bring up Kevin Smith was because he made a movie called Dogma. And that was kind of his premise where I forgot her name and her actress name is Linda. I know how to say it a net netty or something. The main FMC of that movie, she was like the last scion and that was kind of the premise for the despisani. it was like you're the last heir of Christ so on and so forth. So that's what we
Hezr: That would, like tell us what that word means, literally.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, so really the descendants of Christ. So in theory, Mary and Joseph had kids, and that bloodline was related to Jesus. So those people still walk this earth today. You just don't know that you're that person, like you're the bloodline. So that's kind of how I came up with the premise and the idea. And I just thought it was kind of cool. And I'm like, let me run with this and
Hezr: Mm-hmm
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: see. what I can build around it. And that's how the story took off.
Hezr: Yeah, that
Jeanette: So do you personally believe in that? I'm just curious, or this just came to you and you thought, I gotta run with this.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, I grew up Catholic, but it was more or less like loose Catholic. we went to church when we wanted to. it was just one of those things like, Hey, let's go on Christmas and let's celebrate Easter. that type of thing. So my family always believed, but I was always infatuated with angels, demons, like that side. I grew up with comic books and like Constantine and Ghost Rider, Blade, those were my favorites. I always liked the supernatural stuff. And then as I got In my twenties, I wrote screenplays, because as I said, I thought I was going to be Spielberg. And my friends and I would like I was the director and they would act pieces out that we would do skits, not from my scripts, but Saturday Night Live was our inspiration. So I would write the little scripts and then we would loosely follow that and we would film it. So I wrote five screenplays and were all called the bounty hunters. It wasn't the Book of Souls saga, which it is today. And the bounty hunters worked for God, basically. And then they did God's work. They would take out supernatural villains, werewolves, vampires, witches, demons, that type And so I wrote all of those in my twenties, and then I thought, hey, I'm gonna go to New York Film Academy. I enrolled. I went there one day and I came home because I was wuss and I was scared. they didn't have dorms or anything like that. They were like, you're gonna live in this creepy apartment unit. And I thought I was in the son of Sam's apartment because and I'm 50, so I know all these references, I apologize. But when I walked into the apartment, the wallpaper was newspaper clippings. And I'm like, no, some serial killer is gonna take this nineteen year old little white guy and just drag him into the streets and kill I was like a buck twenty soaking wet, back then, you So I went with two of my best friends, drove me there and my brother, and we promptly stayed one night and turned around and came home. so with those screenplays I
Hezr: Well, you know what? You're still alive, so good call on you.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah. It was creepy. I'm not gonna lie.
Hezr: Yeah.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: but so those screenplays sat with me and I did nothing. I ended up getting married, having a kid, and then in my thirties, life happened. And then in my forties, one of my friends was reading my script again and he was like, I s shared this with my wife. And she was like, This would make a great book. Like just she
Hezr: Mm.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: goes, Most likely no one's going to make a movie out of your screenplays because you don't know anybody. You're not in Hollywood, you're not in New York, you're in Massachusetts, basically on the Rhode Island board. I grew up in Rhode Island and then moved to Mass. And then she's like, no one's gonna make this. Sorry to burst your bubble. She said, so just self-publish on Amazon. She goes, you already have the story, the bones, the dialogue, the fight scenes, the everything is there. Just be more descriptive and you have a book. So for two years I took those five scripts and I wrote the first three books are done. And now book one's releasing
Hezr: Okay. Okay.
Jeanette: I have a hard time believing it couldn't be made into a movie because I'm gonna tell you, I've gotten to eighteen. there was the scene where Is it Grace goes flying off of her motorcycle? And I'm just like, this is nuts.
Hezr: So,
Jeanette: This is so cool. I could see that in the movies. dude, you have so many characters that are so developed and we interviewed Justin Deprima a few weeks ago and it's that same vibe where some novels, yes, totally a novel which is absolutely amazing in its own right, but there is so much action in yours, and I'm not even what I'm not even halfway done. that's my thoughts on it. Rich, have you been able to read the novel?
Hezr: Yeah, so I read is very exciting. yeah, I mean, I'm not surprised that you say that this was a movie idea. have you considered anime for this story?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: So that's kind of the goal or the end game. everyone wants to see their book turned into a movie or a TV series. For me, I would just be thrilled if this got turned into a comic book or a graphic novel in that anime style or what have you. just growing up reading comics, that was my in inspiration. And I wrote what I want wanted to read because I think the a lot of people have a short attention span. So for me, when I'm reading a book, perfect example is Da Vinci Code. So some of my inspirations, I am I don't know if familiar with R. A. Salvatore.
Hezr: you
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: So his books were like the Dark Elf trilogy. they're very similar to Lord of the Rings stuff like that. that was his inspiration. He's actually from Massachusetts, but he has like 30 or 40 books. And he started writing the Star Wars, the new era of Star Wars books and comic books and stuff like that, too. So he kind of taught me fight scenes.
Hezr: Okay.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Anne Rice is my all-time favorite. so the Vampire Chronicles and the Mayfair Witches, that's why all my characters have red hair and green eyes. if you know anything about her stuff. so I tried to pay homage to those people. And then James Patterson taught me about thrillers, suspense. So, like Kiss the Girls is one of the best books I've ever read. the Da Vinci Code taught me about pacing. He literally the short chapters, and I'm like, I love this because It's one of those things where you people joke around, just one more chapter. Like I read in bed. So I will literally fall asleep if bored, right? So I'm like, okay, so if I need fast-paced DaVinci code, didn't fall asleep. all of a sudden it's two in the morning and you're like, I need to go to the next chapter. No, I need to go to bed because I'm working tomorrow, because I'm a grown man and I have to support my family. you know and then Dean Kuntz was someone else I'd love to call out because I read his Frankenstein. I don't know you've ever read his Frankenstein. Crazy. Just such a different take. And I was like, that's
Hezr: Yeah
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: yeah, it was atmospheric, world building. And then his Odd Thomas, like my characters, like Harrison can see ghosts, and I got that from Thomas. So I took all of that and hodgepodged it together. But as far as the character development, these were all separate stories at one point. So, like Scarlet and Sage, they were my
Hezr: Right.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: characters. Alaric James was the first character I ever came up with. Then Harrison was the second, but then Scarlet and Sage were my next storyline. And I had that completely different. They worked for the government. They were like CIA type agents because I love James Bond. So I was like, these people are going to be like my Ethan Hunt or my James Bond or what have you. And they were a husband-wife team and so on. So over the years I took those characters and I just put them into one book and now a five book series.
Hezr: Excellent. Yeah, big fan of all you The first thing, think Darkfall was the first book I read Dean Koons and I was hooked. And then I read Seize the Night and Fear Nothing that was an incredible character who can't go in the sunlight. familiar with that guy?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: No, I didn't read that book.
Hezr: Okay, yeah, he lives at night and sleeps during the day because he has his skin condition. yeah, he has fascinating adventures running around all night while everybody else is asleep. and any Dean Koons, it gets crazy fantastical in a heartbeat. and I love
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: great.
Hezr: the I love taking the established characters Janette and I have talked about this on a, we talked with Sparks about taking
Jeanette: Hm, yes.
Hezr: pictures and having different takes on them, because I love that Frankenstein idea. I've always lamented that they can't do a decent house of Frankenstein. there still isn't a decent mashup of Frankenstein Dracula Wolfman. and it's just out there waiting.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Did you see or watch Monster Squad back in the day in eighties?
Hezr: Yeah, I mean look, that's as close as we're gonna get, because It's not the highest quality, but it's a great fun movie.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I keep saying that could be made into a T V series today with today's technology.
Hezr: easily, should easily, would crush stranger things.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I was just gonna say that it would be similar 'cause it's the kids on the bikes. Yep.
Jeanette: Well see, now you put it out there in the ether, and so now someone's going to maybe you should jump on that. do you have time to do something like that? it's in your brain, so
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: it's funny because like for me, I want to get this five book series completed. And then I want to do another five book series related to this. So once you guys read through, Aurora is one of my favorite characters, and try not to tell she doesn't even have a last name, so I try not to tell you guys, the readers, too much about her. and
Hezr: Thank
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: her sister Adia, who you'll meet in book two. so they are part of the Po Ming,
Hezr: thank
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: which is like an ancient Chinese warrior bloodline that fights supernatural beings. And you find out in the next five book series who they are and where they came from. not to kind of, you know, people like teasers like, hey, you might have to wait like five years before you see that. But that s saga will be called the Book of Creation. And I'm big into colors, so this book of souls saga is pink and black.
Hezr: and I'm going about the importance of of
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Because one of my characters is Death and she created the Book of Souls and you don't find that out 'til book three. but I kinda hint at it throughout book one and book two. And then she's pink and black. she is. So I made Death a female 'cause I wanted to do different gender swapping. So then I made my other character who's gonna be called Life is a male and he's white and blue. And those two are like my yin and yang of the universe. They basically created the whole universe that we know today. Death and life.
Hezr: So I wanna catch the rest of the viewers up. first book introduces us to this world, ton of supernatural stuff going on. And there is a bloodline of Christ they don't know it. These people don't know that they're descended from Jesus Christ. At the same time, the supernatural forces of good and evil are aware and have been tracking them because they're basically pawns in like a greater game of dominance over good and evil. And you've got Satan who's plotting a massive world, overturn using the last descendant and then the forces of good, which are different factions that all kind of come together to unite against all the evil and to try to stop them. And really, it's a self-contained story about, this good versus evil while establishing this world. that also really does tell you this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Exactly.
Hezr: You haven't written the last two books, but do you already know how everything's going to end?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yes. the last two books, book four and five, are in screenplay form. So all of the screenplays are done. So yeah. So I do
Hezr: right. You already have this. So yeah, it's all map.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: know how it will all play out in on Goodreads, one of the reviewers, her name's Kay. She was one of the first people that ARC read for me. And she was Asking me questions as she was reading it. And she's like, listen, what's up with Jacob? Because like I thought he was the star of the show. And I didn't tell her anything. I tried to play coy. And then at the end, she's like, Jacob's not the star. She's like, everybody is. And I said, Yeah, that was kind of my point. I said, I decided to write the Avengers first. Instead of all the backstories in, Iron Man and then Captain America and Hulk and then Thor. And then all of a sudden you get the Avengers. I said, I just said, you know what? I'm gonna write Avengers first, in my And I said it'll introduce you to all of the characters and hopefully you connect with more than one of them and then you wanna know more. So for me, the story's done, and knew how it was going to end. Basically, because I usually come up with the beginning and the end first, and then I write toward that. So I don't necessarily outline, but I will write something for each chapter. Like Grace fights bad guys, Aurora kicks ass. Harrison and Sally have a moment, and then that's my chapter, what it's supposed to be based on, and then I try to pace so that it's action-packed. But then it slows down when it needs to. And I try to throw the bad guys in there. Cause I want the bad guys to be bad. But also you like read the book, you'll know that no one really takes themselves too serious. Even Satan. will kind of have these moments where you it's kind of comical. And that's basically I got that from James Patterson. Cause even his villains, they tend to over the top and at times you're like, That's weird. But then I kind of like that. So for me, that's what I tried to do is just make it character driven. And then at the end, you're kind of like, wait, who is the main character? Now, in my mind, it's the whole all five books really play off of Alaric, or some people, if you watch Vampire Diaries, they call them Alaric. So my wife and I fight over that all the time because we loved vampire diaries. She's like, you have to call him Alaric. And I'm like, I don't know. My Rhode Island accent comes
Hezr: So,
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: out and I call him Alaric. and then everybody corrects me. So I'll let people say the way they want. But in my mind, it's really Alaric and Harrison, Aurora Adia. Like those four people have a piece in every single story, if you will, throughout the five books.
Hezr: and way that that. And I think that's way to think that's a good way to So I that's a good that. And I think a good to that. And I think a good I And I that's a good think good to that. And I think good that.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Jacob happens to be this guy. however, he he's necessary for the story and he develops over time. You'll start to see his powers and how he starts to get more confidence in the later books. So
Jeanette: I
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: that's kind of what liked about her catching that.
Jeanette: definitely was cracking up with Satan's two sons. They have me laughing which is not something that I would expect. And I enjoyed that. A lot of times, the bad guys are just these cookie cutter bad guys they're mean and whatever. But no, they're just like, why are you taking so long?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: No Rom.
Jeanette: And I'm reading it in bed and I'm just like, my God. It's like sibling rivalry.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, Rom and Sam L are characters, like they're g they're funny, like in my opinion.
Jeanette: they were cracking me up. Rich, which character was your favorite so far?
Hezr: Well, it was a whirlwind to try to keep track of everybody, but it is kind of that mold of ensemble books. Lord of the Rings was like that, way back when, and it's kind of set that tone originally. So, I remember, did you read the Prideon Chronicles?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: No.
Hezr: Okay, was another one with a thousand different characters. And so I did find myself focusing on the vampire. I wanted to see more of Aurora. I was actually a little disappointed that she wasn't more the focus of this book. was because it was teased. and realizing that this is a series of books, I'm like, yeah, this has kind of got be paced that way because you would burn her out and then her story would be done. So you kind of have to hold back on that. But I did find the vampire and Aurora the most compelling for me.
Jeanette: So if I walked into a room And I had one of your vampires, ghosts, witches, and Satan. Who should I be the most afraid of?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: So what's honestly, you once you get through and finish, I think you will most likely hate Dante Kane the most because he's
Jeanette: Yeah.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: a human and he does despicable things women. So
Jeanette: Yeah.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: as a dad of a daughter who's nineteen, that's my biggest fear. is always like human trafficking and all that stuff. And one of my characters, Sage and Scarlet's daughter, was killed by him for that reason. He was trying to abduct her or what have you, to put into that lifestyle. so Violet was unfortunately one of the ghosts in the story. So Dante Kane was somebody that I wrote as this human character. Who you find out later has ties to Satan, which I tease, so okay if I, spoil that. It's not technically a spoiler. But there is something that happens later, that was pretty cool, I think. And a lot of people like that twist. But Dante would be the most he's unpredictable.
Hezr: Yeah.
Jeanette: I just
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Rich hop hopefully Rich, you like that twist. So
Hezr: Yeah. Yes. was great. It was well done, but it wasn't like a twist in bad faith. It was like a twist where you're like, well, that makes sense when you think about it. Like, yeah, of course.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: And then Satan, you can it's gonna sound crazy, but you can reason with him in a way because he has to follow the rules. Same thing with Raphael. That's why, Raphael, you would think he's an archangel, he can just do whatever he wants, but he can't because they have to follow rules. Dante doesn't have rules. He can just do whatever he wants because he's a human, he's immortal. So that's why he's scarier. You'll meet different characters in book two. So Alaric is the only vampire in book one and he's a good guy. but in book two, three, four, five, you'll see Alaric's rival, who is just so manipulative and sneaky, that I can't wait for you guys to meet him too. His name's George McCabe. So Alaric's from Scotland and so is George. So
Hezr: Hey, so do you recognize this guy?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, Vampire Hunted D. Yeah. I have glasses, so
Hezr: Okay.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I'm like, wait, let me see. I'm s
Hezr: Yeah.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I was staring at it the whole time, and I'm like, yeah, that's like so my cover, which it's funny because my wife hates my book cover, but she doesn't like that. She doesn't like comic books, she doesn't like anime. So she's like, no, he let me clarify Your artist did a great job. It looks nice, but don't like it. She goes, if I walked into Barnes and Noble and saw that, I wouldn't pick it up. And she goes, it's not my style. So funny thing is, my aunt was one of my ARC readers. And she left me a review and she literally said, I read this book for my nephew, and it was but it was such a great review. And she's like, reason I'm calling that out is because I started off only reading this because it was for my nephew. Because if I saw this book In Target or whatever, wouldn't pick it up because I am judging a book by its cover. it looks like an anime or a manga or a comic book. And she's like, not for me. but she also said that, like, hey, I like romance and spice and all that stuff. And I'm like, all right. I said that I get that. And I said, I don't have spice. I said, so then when she was done reading it, she was like It just was really good. She goes, it was really well like you described the scenes and the fighting was cinematic. And she's like, and it was very character driven. And she said, it just made me want to keep reading. And she would call me when she was done a chapter and go, What the hell? And then she's like, Grace, where'd she come from? Why'd you wait so long to introduce Grace? And I'm like, Yeah, I did that on purpose because Grace is so important to the greater story. And
Hezr: Okay. Okay.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: so is Harrison, those two characters. they become more than what they are now, which is pretty cool. And coincidentally I wrote them after myself and my daughter. So my daughter middle name is Grace. And I described Grace as Guatemalan and my daughter's Guatemalan. So I did that on purpose. I just made Grace taller. daughter's like, wait, I'm five feet. Why did you make Grace like five eight? And I'm like, because sh so she can be a better fighter. Like not like this little five foot like person coming up to you. and then Harrison is the most like me. I'm a smart ass, I'm sarcastic, I use humor as a coping mechanism when I'm nervous. so that's me. And then Aurora is my wife. No nonsense. We'll kick your ass like if you step out of lines. And I like that. So those are my three people that I drew inspiration from. Myself, my wife, and my daughter for those three characters. And then Alaric's the guy I wish I could be. Like I wanna be cool and tough like him and I'm not, so
Jeanette: What's interesting you say that about the book cover because we've spoken about this several times throughout the podcast. And was working on a book cover. I had a cover artist that pulled through it is beautiful. my god, I love it. but it is something that I never would have made. so the thing is initially I had to have a cover. And I thought, well, let me just go on and throw it into AI and say, make me a cover for this as a placeholder. Okay, I learned so many things, so many things about why that is not good. so then I'm then I'm like, it's scraping people's artwork and not giving them credit. It all these really not cool things. So then I thought, okay, well, I'm just gonna make my own cover for the time being. And I found some licensed backgrounds I took a photo of my actual best friend and used her in it. But Covers are hard, because if they walk in and see your book cover and they're thinking something completely different, then they are missing out because it shouldn't be like that. One person said to me, Well, why don't you just have a blank cover? And I said, Well, because nobody's going to pick that up. you have to have a cover,
Hezr: So,
Jeanette: it's unfortunate. wish the cover could just be like the blurb saying, This is what's inside. But yeah, now also personally my person, Yuri, he would pick that up in a heartbeat, so would my son, because anime, comics, all the things. But for me, I'm more of a show me something dark and that's where I'm headed. so I'm just very appreciative that you reached out. that I was able to read what you've put together because this is this is good. I don't want to go to sleep. Like I'm laying in bed I'm reading this and she's shooting off the motorcycle and I'm just like my heart's going and I'm kind of like, God, what's gonna happen? yeah, it's totally it it's amazing. love it. So yeah, the cover I don't know. Like I who figures those things out and makes decisions on that. But
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah. I literally go to Planet Fitness every morning and my artist works So how I figured out he was he could draw was they always have a whiteboard when you walk in and there was always drawings on there telling you about their promotions for the gym. And it would be like Superman or Batman Spider Man or it would be Dragon Ball Z or, know, One Punch or whatever. Like and I was like, wow that's really sick. So then I asked Michael. And he's credited in my book. and I was like, Mike, I said, Did you draw that? And now on a whiteboard with a marker, that's even like you know what I mean? and then he was like, Yeah. And I was like, Do you draw all the time? And he was like, Yeah, I said, do you have an Instagram account, TikTok, whatever? He goes, sure. So he sent it to me, and then I was like, Okay. So then I sat on it for a little bit, and then I'm like, hey, you mind drawing for me my book cover? And he was like,
Hezr: Thank you.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I've never done anything like that before. That's so cool. Thank you so much. He was so appreciative. He's a young kid, right? He's like, I don't know, 24. and I'm like, yeah, I said, you know, we'll discuss, like, hey, I'll figure out, I'll Google and see what I'm supposed to be paying. I'm book cover artist. I said, and we can discuss that and see whatever you're comfortable with. I said, but I want you to kind of run with it. I said, I'll describe my characters to you. I'll tell you my one of my favorite comic book artists is John McCrae, who did The Boys. hitman and ghostwriter and constantine he works with garth ennis who's a famous comic book writer and that tv show on prime the boys is from garth and john mrae was the artist and his art style is very similar to Mike's so I was like yeah I just want it to be like this and he was the one that came up with what Raphael was going to look like on the cover. I was very specific with Aurora. And I told him I need her to look like this. think of Celine from Underworld, but she's Chinese. She's from, China originally and so on. I said, and she needs to have purple eyes. And Adia has purple hair. I said, and that's very important to the And I said, Jacob, I want him, he's a skater guy.
Hezr: Hmm.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I said, so give him those baggy Django jeans or like khakis or you know what have you and he has to have scruffy, dirty blonde hair. And then Rafael, I said, he's just suave. He's an archangel, drum, whatever way. I said picture him with like a Hispanic heritage so on. I said, just kind of run with it. And he came up with all of that. so I think he did a great job and I love it and it's easy to see on a thumbnail. they always tell you that when you come up with your book cover, sure it's easy to see 'cause when people are scrolling on Amazon they only see a little picture. And that's why I did it black and pink and he put the glow around everybody. So it would stand out. So he literally, if you if you ever get the book in person, you'll see there's a purple hue around Raphael and Aurora, and then there's a golden, which is, his shield, Jacob's shield, the Valder, that's his thing that protects him, that Michael, the archangel, created, who you don't meet in the story at all. You don't meet him till book three.
Jeanette: It's funny how you come in contact with people, and that's how the genesis happens because the same thing with me. I had a coworker and I was talking about my novel, and he mentioned that a son did art a young kid again. And so it was very similar to what you're saying as far as. coming up with, okay, well, how do we do this? But also you want it to be their art, And the same thing with Rich.
Hezr: just a young kid who did art and we, got together and he did art from my book.
Jeanette: it's amazing. people talk about going on, Fiverr and these other things, but the issue that I had with that, maybe I was looking in the wrong spot, was that all I found was AI. personally, if you are using your own stuff and you're using AI to manipulate it. minus the environmental issues that go along with it too. I don't completely hate it not everybody can pay a cover artist. Not everybody can find one.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeanette: so in those instances, I'm not fully against it, but I do feel like there need to be protections for the artists because that is not right when I realized that it's just scraping these images from other people's art, and I looked at the initial cover that I had put together, I really just kind of wanted to throw up because all I could think of is somebody put time, effort, love into whoever this woman was that I just plucked out of the ether and slapped on there because I thought she looked perfect for what I was doing. maybe I just don't know about all the avenues.
Hezr: you
Jeanette: I've found out so many different things about work sharing, indie authors or not Spielberg we just don't have all these dollars to be like, Okay, I want this, go find me the perfect one. But Your cover's super cool. I hope that more people instead of just looking at the cover, maybe turn the back over and read what the back says.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, the back of the book blurb is you know, I put a lot of thought into that, so hopefully it catches people's Attention. that's my goal. But I'm hoping that I just can't get momentum. So sometimes you write one book and people don't see it and then two the second one and then the third one, and then all of a sudden people are like, hey, this guy's got a trilogy. Let me kind of see what's going on. And then my goal is that they look nice back to back. But my target audience really my goal is once this releases, I want to go to the Newberry comics that are around my area and see if they'll let me do like book signings there. get my book in their stores and that type of thing. And I know you don't make too much money when you get your book in a bookstore because it's like half off is what you usually have to give them. So I'm distributing through Amazon and Ingram Spark so that Ingram can send it to Barnes and Noble, Target and all that if those people want to buy from me. But I have my sell sheets put together and ready to go hit the road, hit the pavement, and ask people, hey, take a look. Can you put like two or three copies your store? The indie bookstores are great. they are willing to work with you. So the first one I walked into in to in Providence, Rhode Island, they're called Weird Providence. And it's based off of HP Lovecraft because he's from Providence. so they have this unique bookstore that has all these different things that deal with religion, occult, supernatural, a lot of nonfiction and fiction. But I went in there and they were more than happy. they were pretty impressed because they were like, sometimes we get indie authors in here and they don't have a cell sheet and they don't have a back of the book blurb. And sometimes the formatting's not really the best. he said we do our best to support them anyway. And he go and I said no, I said I did a lot of research and got a lot of help. I said I just didn't I didn't know how to
Hezr: Yeah.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: do this. know
Hezr: If they see that your format isn't quite exact, do they completely berate you, like right there in front of you and let you know how bad
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I don't know.
Hezr: you screwed up? Because that was just...
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I so what was funny was I had my reader like I have two editors. So
Hezr: That was Pat's experience.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: y it it's funny because I have two editors who don't normally edit books and stuff like that. So both of them are teachers. So one of them is my coworker and she's a retired teacher. But what she does is she edits plays. She's big in the theater community in her town. And she works with the playwrights and she edits plays all day long. So very similar to screenplays on like mine. So she knows that. And she's a teacher. So she looked at grammar, punctuation, sentence structure, all of that stuff for me. And then she kind of threw in like what she thought needed to be cleaned up as well. My other editor is my cousin, who's a high school history teacher and a nerd like me. he's a big Star Wars geek in Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones and Marvel DC and all of that stuff. so he helped me with plot holes, storyline, character development, what worked, what didn't work. and they were both very nice, but I did get like three, four, five pages of corrections when they were done. in large font. it could have been ten pages if they use small font. so they really helped me a lot. And then I'm in other author groups on TikTok and Instagram and I just asked for help and they describe things to me and basically were saying, Jeanette, what you were saying, like AI, you need to stay away from that for images, book covers and all that stuff because they will berade you for that. But It's funny because I'm reading for someone else now and I was going easy on that person too because I was like, hey, your formatting is a little funky. you're gonna need to do something about that. I struggled with that, so I bought Atticus and I just use that and it's a one-time buy. It's like a hundred and fifty dollars and you have it for life. But you literally write everything in Word, upload it there, and it fixes it for you as far as format. it's great.
Jeanette: Wow, nice. Yeah.
Hezr: Let me ask about the covers that you mentioned, so your three characters on that Rafael and
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: and Aurora.
Hezr: Jacob and Are you going to have different characters then on each book?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah.
Hezr: then will you be able to put all the books next to each other and they're all like standing in the same horizon?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: the way envisioned it was it was like a spotlight on these characters for each book. So book two, and my artist is already working on it and he has it drawn. It's not colored yet. And it looks really cool. And I can send it to guys after. but book two is literally called The Story of Alaric and Adia. So it's gonna slow everything down. You won't see Jacob, Scarlet, Grace, Sage. It's gonna be smaller it's a shorter book. But that's really takes place seven years prior to book one and also present day. So when book one ends, it ends on kind of a not really a cliffhanger, but like a okay, what are they gonna get themselves into now? Because Alaric is asking Harrison a very important question, you remember Rich. So that is you're going to see play out in book two. what you're really in store for is Alaric and Adia, their romance, their love, their relationship. and Aurora is big in that. So it's about how those three work together for the Lamia society. Raphael's in it, and they were fighting different bad guys. I actually introduced werewolves, the Norse werewolves. And that's who they're fighting in that second So you'll see those two on the cover, and that's a fun cover. because Alaric and Adia, you'll meet Adia and she's really fun. She's like the girl that everybody wants to hang out with, and she's just really cool. and that's Alaric's love. So that's who he keeps talking about in book Now, book three is going to have Harrison and Grace on the cover,
Hezr: So, thank
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: and you'll see Above Harrison will be Sally, which is his dead wife. And then you will see above Grace, Oscar, which is her dead father. because they're ghosts and they oversee them, they stay with them this whole And that book three is called The Realm Walker and the Dream Walker. So you'll see how that evolves. And then book four, I introduce you to my villains who you haven't really met yet. It's Venefica and Malum. Venifica is the first dark witch created by Satan, and Malum is the first vampire created by Satan. And Malum is who
Hezr: yeah.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: made Alaric.
Hezr: We do hear about Malam in the first. Yeah. Yeah.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah. don't hear about Venifica, but you hear about Malum. and they're gonna be on the book cover as two like scheming, powerful beings. And then finally, book five and that one's called the stories of Venifica and Malum. And I say stories because they're not linked, they're not together in they're separate. One that takes place in the eight hundreds and Malum's in the thirteen fifties. and then Book five is called the New Lamia Society because something happens to the characters. And you'll see Miguel, Scarlet, and Sage on that cover. So if you put them all side by side, you'll see the whole cast pretty much And I don't do
Hezr: Okay.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Satan on purpose because you can't see him.
Hezr: answer to my question is a no. But then when you brought up werewolves, do you have a Frankenstein's monster? Because then you've got the House of Frankenstein.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, I don't. I don't hey maybe in that next book series. We'll see. not but not in that one. No. I just have werewolves, witches, vampires, angels, demons.
Hezr: I just built the foundation so you're poised.
Jeanette: Well, and what
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: It would be awesome.
Jeanette: what's cool too is that you might be the bridge. You have people like me that are just horror the way. throw Carrie at me, all of that. Stephen King, my gosh. Right? and then you have your anime and your comic book people. this could be the bridge where it's like I've never really thought about that kind of art, is something that I'm like, hey, I wanna watch those movies or I wanna see that. it's different. And I love that it's different because so many things that are just regurgitation, cookie cutters. You just keep seeing the same thing over and over. you're
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah.
Jeanette: offering something totally different in my mind. And maybe it's not, maybe I just didn't know. about anything like this before, but yeah, very eye opening reading it.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I used I tried to be different on purpose, but not different on purpose. Like it was because I actually liked that stuff. So like Castlevania, Vampire Hunter D, Ninja Scroll, like you know that
Hezr: Right. my, while we were waiting for you to get your technical issues, I had Castlevania Literally was
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah.
Hezr: framed. The Super Nintendo version was on
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yes.
Hezr: behind you.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: That is awesome. And that game I couldn't beat, and it really made me mad. I'm not the only one. But it was such a hard game. But yeah, I mean, just another inspiration is like Van Helsing, the movie with Hugh Jackman. when that came out, it got dumped on really bad. And I'm like, this is kind of cool. And now people love it. years later, people literally are talking about it loving So
Hezr: They thought that's okay It deserves be dumped on.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: What I liked about it was the morphing aspect of the werewolves and the vampires. I thought that was cool, and I kind of stole that for Alaric.
Hezr: thought there were a lot of cool things in it, but then I had too many negatives.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I totally get that.
Jeanette: what would be the most controversial thing about your book that would make you cringe.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: the only thing for me is I discuss like suicide. So I don't know if it's something I wrote that people would say that's not true or that would like that type of thing, where they're questioning my lore because like you know, it's fiction, so I'm making it up as I go. But some people I think when you're dealing with acts of suicide, like that Book two is really based on that. So you know this in book one, you know that Alaric did something to Adia and she killed herself. so book two, the prologue is that scene, which connects it back to the end of the book. She is a vampire, so it's a little easier to kind of sit with people knowing that it's a supernatural character that did this. but that's really the thing I think if anyone had a problem, maybe that's where they would have a problem or, a trigger wanting to have that in my book.
Hezr: Well, I will tell you I have the audio scene So when I put it out, I do have one screen at the beginning that is a disclaimer because we do talk about Satan and we do mention Christ and the disclaimer is that hey, this is not our representation of actual Christianity.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yes.
Hezr: Just so that people don't think that I through this scene or that you through that book are
Jeanette: Okay.
Hezr: trying to push an ideological reality on anything. I think reading
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, and I agree with that.
Hezr: your book, it's not look, we know what happened when Da Vinci Code came out and that was kind of a brilliant move for Dan Brown, reading your book pretty quickly, nobody's going to get confused about where your book falls in the fiction and nonfiction. category. So
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah.
Hezr: I would agree with you that a suicide scene would be a tough, go for some people.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, and I try not to mention Jesus. I don't know if I do in book one, at all. I say twice. to
Hezr: Well you mentioned Christ
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: kind of lessen the blow more. I think because if you hear Jesus, people automatically are like, hey, you know. and then Satan, like I said, I make him not take himself serious either, Just so people know, hey, this is gonna be funny. It's not gonna be, angels and demons like Dan Brown wrote, which was probably more controversial than the Da Vinci book.
Hezr: Yes, yes,
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: So that's where I don't think I'll find people picketing outside of my local library saying, this guy, take his book off the shelves. just because I tried to be more I was aware. I know Kevin
Hezr: Right.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Smith when Dogma came out got a lot of heat and he made God a woman, Alanis Morissette, and people hated that too. so
Hezr: If.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: it's like,
Hezr: such an obvious fictional movie, you know, I know. Hey, listen, I need to talk about Kevin Smith for a hot second.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah.
Hezr: you know the story about when they pulled him in try to get him to direct the Superman movie?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yes. With Nicholas Cage?
Hezr: Yes, and that Superman was going to fight polar bears.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I do. And do you go ahead, tell me.
Hezr: Okay, so me just make this real brief because
Jeanette: Mm-hmm.
Hezr: Jeanette, you probably don't know this, right?
Jeanette: No, I do not.
Hezr: Kevin Smith was pulled in, when he was the hottest ticket, right? Coming off of the dogma and the mall rats and the clerks and stuff, right? Or Chasing Amy, that was a big one. So they pulled him in, they were like, we have this thing for you to direct. And he's like, yeah, this script of Superman, why do you have him fighting polar bears? And they're like, well, he has his fortress of solitude in the North Pole. So of course there's going to be polar bears there. And Kevin Smith is like, I'm trying to explain to them, that's not a fight. Superman and polar bears is not a fight. Those are like puppies to him, if even that. what are they doing? But then they explained to him that the main menace that Superman would face be a giant spider. Because in their words,
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I was waiting for you to say this.
Hezr: yeah, there is no more evil antagonistic menace than the spider in the animal kingdom, right? Isn't that how they said it to him?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: do you remember the rest of that story and what happened after that?
Hezr: Well, I know that the Wild West movie came out
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yes.
Hezr: and had a giant mechanical spider in the Old West. And then, when I saw Flashpoint last year, we get the different dimensions, the multiverses, and there is a Nicolas Cage Superman fighting a giant spider creature.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: And they did it on purpose
Jeanette: Mm-hmm.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: because it was
Hezr: Yeah, would have to.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah. I remember Kevin Smith saying something like it was the same producer or something, and that's why he was hell bent on getting that mechanical spider in something. And that's where
Hezr: Right, was for that.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: they put it in West with Will Smith.
Jeanette: so they weren't making fun of it? I thought they were being funny and saying this is ridiculous. they just really wanted that
Hezr: And that's
Jeanette: spider in there.
Hezr: hurting that on somebody who can appreciate that. So I knew you'd know.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Now, here's another funny thing missed. Kevin Smith was here in Providence last year, and he was at the Rhode Island Comic-Con. And I couldn't go for whatever reason to his event. But one of my good friends, went, who I worked with at Blockbuster Video. And he asked Kevin Smith a question in from the audience. And he goes, Do you remember talking to this guy, Wayne Elderkin, at Blockbuster Video? in like 1996. And he Kevin Smith, like he said he rubbed his chin. He goes, Yes, I do remember talking to Wayne Elderkin. And he goes, That Blockbuster Video. He goes, because I never called anyone else at Blockbuster Video. And I was like, son of a bitch, I should have been there. I would have like, Hey
Jeanette: Yeah.
Hezr: You should.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: man, that's me. Like, read my book. The best advice he gave me, he said. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Hezr: Mm.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: He said, so if you write one screen back then it was screenplays I was working on. He goes, if you write one script, he goes, Don't bring it to film festivals or producers or whatever and say, read my script. He goes, you need to have an arsenal. you need to have three, four, five. He goes, because if they do like it, they're never going to say, Hey, let's make this a movie. They're gonna say, What else do you got? And if you say nothing, they're gonna say, All right, thank said, So you gotta at least have three, four, five different scripts or movies if you're going to make movies or what have He said
Jeanette: Exactly.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: so that they'll take you serious. hey, this guy is really serious about this, and he has multiple things. that always sticks with me.
Hezr: Excellent advice. Good deal.
Jeanette: Mm-hmm. Rich, do you have any specific questions that you had on the top of your brain?
Hezr: well, I did want to get the Kevin Smith thing out of my system, so I'm thankful for that. But otherwise than mean, when I have like a I have my comic books, I have them in the boxes over there, but I have the standing turn thing over there in my man cave corner. I've been collecting since seventy five. And so Do I have questions for Wayne? Yeah, we could talk for literally three days without sleep.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I'll tell you my one regret comic book wise. I used to have the ghostwriter number one, Johnny Blease, and
Hezr: OHHHH
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I sold it. I regret that. my daughter was starting to get into comics. And I sold it so that I could buy different comics for her, like Wonder Woman, Batgirl, she was into those. I said I'm gonna get a good haul for it. So I got more than what I ever paid But
Hezr: Yeah, that's a regret. That's for your daughter. That shouldn't be a regret.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: She doesn't read them. She doesn't read them anymore. It was that's was like one and done. It was a phase. But
Hezr: So I sold Avengers number four, the one where they find Captain America in ice. I sold that and paid for my wife and I to go on hot air balloon rides for our honeymoon.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Okay, cool.
Hezr: And that is
Jeanette: sweet.
Hezr: of most favorite memories of all
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Now, see that's awesome. And I did something similar because I also used to collect baseball football cards. And I sold all of them right before my wedding, so that my wife and I could help pay for the wedding too. So not as cool as yours, because that's awesome with the hot air balloons, but it is kind of Funny that that's like the first thing you think of. You're like, hey, I got some stuff in my basement that would probably sell. So check this out. Right now my prize possession is I have Lobo first appearance he's one of my all-time favorite characters. and I tracked it down at a flea market in my local area. and I found it. And I so that's kind of my prize I have a lot of Lobo, lot of Punisher, Ghost Rider. Blade and then also Hitman. Are you familiar with Hitman?
Hezr: Yup.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I probably have the first forty copies of that. So I thought those were some great comics. And then love Daredevil as well. I tend to like the urban, more grounded heroes, but ironically Superman is my
Hezr: Right.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: all time favorite. It's hard because I like the concept
Hezr: Yep.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: of Superman, the idea is great, but they tend to mess up the movies, a lot.
Hezr: Yeah. Do you have the Frank Miller Daredevil run? From like 168 on?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I have a couple, but not really. I have Kevin Smith's and then I have more random, not
Hezr: Gotcha. Yeah, good stuff. Yeah, we could talk forever.
Jeanette: Well then for our listeners out there, where can they find you?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I am on TikTok and Instagram. I have a website, which is literally my name. if you Google Wayne A. Eldekin dot com, you'll find the website
Hezr: Mm-hmm.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: will give you the lore, the background. There's a lot of the artwork on there. for my artist.
Hezr: I've been right su-
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: It took me a long time. I used Hostinger. so it took me maybe like three months before I went live because I really wanted to get the color scheme in each page correct. and a lot of Google search asking like what am I supposed to do and all of that stuff. But yeah, TikTok, Instagram, and then my website. And other than that, the book can find on Amazon. I know Barnes and Noble and Walmart have it on their sites too. Release date Release date 1010. Pre-order now, but release date 101026. Just in time for Halloween.
Jeanette: you have a message or something that you want to say the world since you've got this platform right now?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, guess for me, my overall theme for the book is all about free will and choice. So even if you're bad guy, you don't have to be a bad guy if you don't want to. So Alaric was obviously a vampire and he just chose not to be a bad if you later you'll find out some other characters get these challenges and they either pass it or they fail it. But you'll see that in upcoming books, but That was just something for me, like as far as like a trope. love found family, but good versus evil, it's so basic, but it just works. So as far as a reader, if you like that type of trope, good versus evil, not everything is as it seems. Sometimes I drop little things and then you think know what's gonna happen and it doesn't. especially in the later books, like you're waiting for this one thing to happen and it never happens, it will happen. just probably in a later book. so tried to write it so that it would be very character driven. So really my message would say, if you like that theme of good versus evil, free will, choice, that's what I was going for. I like things to be serious at times, but with a lot of humor. So it's a dark urban fantasy with supernatural characters like angels, vampires, witches, demons, werewolves and so on. But It's really more than that. I try to put a lot of grief in there. so these are people with normal problems and they have to work through them. So there's a lot of grief, right? They all suffered loss and that's where the ghosts come from. so I tried to give it a human element, a human touch to it as well. Book two is probably my favorite just because I love Adia and Alaric's story. But book three, in my opinion, is the most psychological. So there might be less fighting and action because my main characters are trapped in this dream realm, if you will. So they just keep replaying their worst time over and over again, and they have to figure out how to get out of so that's like a hint for that. So again, everything comes down to The person has to figure this out on their own. They will have help, but you have free will and choice at the end of the day. So if you like those emotional ties with this bigger fantasy, dark fantasy story, then this is probably the
Jeanette: Well, thank you so much for being on the show. I know that me personally, I can't wait to get back to reading the book, but first I have to edit this. and we'll be watching, we'll be following. what comes, This is like wow, yeah, you got a lot going.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: And I have to check out your books if you guys can send those to me too. let me know.
Jeanette: Hundred percent. And
Hezr: Yeah,
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Thank you so much.
Hezr: so
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: So you're saying it correct. There are two ways to say it. and I kept researching like crazy. And my friends and family said they like how I say despassani, they feel like it's it rolls off the tongue better. But I think scholars would correct me and say despassini. So when I asked Google, how do I say this? Can you repeat it back to me? They said there were two ways, but it did like your way as the correct. pronunciation. However, always say desposani because people understand it better. if you
Jeanette: Okay. I I like the way Despasani sounds. yeah, it does. It totally does. welcome to the show. And please say hello and Rich also welcome to the show. I think I did it in backwards order, but you know what? It's been a long two weeks, so
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Sounds cooler.
Hezr: we were so chomping at the bit to get that pronunciation
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, it's a tough one. my uncle was like, Isn't that plural? shouldn't you say despasan I? And I'm like, No, we're getting too complicated. said, Let's just leave it at that. And of course he's like, a genius. So he's reading it going, I think you should change I said, No, that's cool. not gonna do the plural the pluralized form of the word 'cause it looks ridiculous.
Jeanette: So Rich had a good question before you got on. Where did that come from? that's an actual thing, right?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, so tell you a quick version my family and friends have heard this story a million times, but so Kevin Smith, the director of Clerk, Small Rats, Dogma, Chasing Amy, he was like a hero of mine when I was in my twenties. So fifty now, so In my twenties, I worked at Blockbuster Video. So all of us that worked at Blockbuster Video, we thought we were gonna be the next Spielberg Lucas or what have you. So Kevin Smith was my guy. So I wrote him a letter asking for advice. And he literally called me four months later while I was working at Blockbuster Video. And it was, if you guys remember Blockbuster, on Saturdays or Fridays, it was ridiculously busy. So I pick up the phone, I do my normal, hey, you know, thanks for calling Blockbuster Video. This is Wayne. How can I help you? And then he's like, Hi, can I speak to Wayne Elderkin? And whenever someone says my name like that, I know they don't know who I am. And they're obviously reading it. then I'm yeah, this is Wayne. And then And he says, yeah, this is Kevin Smith. I have your letter. I'm just calling you. And I was just flabbergasted. I didn't say anything. And then I'm
Hezr: So,
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: like, are you shitting me? And then he
Jeanette: HOOOO
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: goes, no, I wouldn't shit you about something like that. And then he's like, I have your letter. And I'm like Okay. And then he's like, the reason I called you was because didn't ask to be in a movie. You didn't ask me to read your script or what have just asked for advice. goes, So I'm giving some kid from Rhode Island advice. And then he gave he talked to me for about 10 minutes. I think he smoked three cigarettes in that 10 minute span. and the funny part of that was he called my house. Because I didn't give him my number at Blockbuster Video. He called my home. And my brother, who must have been, eight years younger than me. So if I was eighteen, he was probably ten when he answered. And he's like, No, Wayne's at work. And then Kevin was like, Is that at Blockbuster Video? Because I put that in letter. And he goes, Yeah. And he goes, What's the phone number? And my brother never knew who that guy was. He just gave him the phone number and said, Yeah, you can call him there. So the reason I bring up Kevin Smith, go ahead, Rick.
Hezr: He's like, hey, what's looking for?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, it was crazy. So that was my fifteen minutes of fame. And then the reason I bring up Kevin Smith was because he made a movie called Dogma. And that was kind of his premise where I forgot her name and her actress name is Linda. I know how to say it a net netty or something. The main FMC of that movie, she was like the last scion and that was kind of the premise for the despisani. it was like you're the last heir of Christ so on and so forth. So that's what we
Hezr: That would, like tell us what that word means, literally.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, so really the descendants of Christ. So in theory, Mary and Joseph had kids, and that bloodline was related to Jesus. So those people still walk this earth today. You just don't know that you're that person, like you're the bloodline. So that's kind of how I came up with the premise and the idea. And I just thought it was kind of cool. And I'm like, let me run with this and
Hezr: Mm-hmm
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: see. what I can build around it. And that's how the story took off.
Hezr: Yeah, that
Jeanette: So do you personally believe in that? I'm just curious, or this just came to you and you thought, I gotta run with this.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, I grew up Catholic, but it was more or less like loose Catholic. we went to church when we wanted to. it was just one of those things like, Hey, let's go on Christmas and let's celebrate Easter. that type of thing. So my family always believed, but I was always infatuated with angels, demons, like that side. I grew up with comic books and like Constantine and Ghost Rider, Blade, those were my favorites. I always liked the supernatural stuff. And then as I got In my twenties, I wrote screenplays, because as I said, I thought I was going to be Spielberg. And my friends and I would like I was the director and they would act pieces out that we would do skits, not from my scripts, but Saturday Night Live was our inspiration. So I would write the little scripts and then we would loosely follow that and we would film it. So I wrote five screenplays and were all called the bounty hunters. It wasn't the Book of Souls saga, which it is today. And the bounty hunters worked for God, basically. And then they did God's work. They would take out supernatural villains, werewolves, vampires, witches, demons, that type And so I wrote all of those in my twenties, and then I thought, hey, I'm gonna go to New York Film Academy. I enrolled. I went there one day and I came home because I was wuss and I was scared. they didn't have dorms or anything like that. They were like, you're gonna live in this creepy apartment unit. And I thought I was in the son of Sam's apartment because and I'm 50, so I know all these references, I apologize. But when I walked into the apartment, the wallpaper was newspaper clippings. And I'm like, no, some serial killer is gonna take this nineteen year old little white guy and just drag him into the streets and kill I was like a buck twenty soaking wet, back then, you So I went with two of my best friends, drove me there and my brother, and we promptly stayed one night and turned around and came home. so with those screenplays I
Hezr: Well, you know what? You're still alive, so good call on you.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah. It was creepy. I'm not gonna lie.
Hezr: Yeah.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: but so those screenplays sat with me and I did nothing. I ended up getting married, having a kid, and then in my thirties, life happened. And then in my forties, one of my friends was reading my script again and he was like, I s shared this with my wife. And she was like, This would make a great book. Like just she
Hezr: Mm.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: goes, Most likely no one's going to make a movie out of your screenplays because you don't know anybody. You're not in Hollywood, you're not in New York, you're in Massachusetts, basically on the Rhode Island board. I grew up in Rhode Island and then moved to Mass. And then she's like, no one's gonna make this. Sorry to burst your bubble. She said, so just self-publish on Amazon. She goes, you already have the story, the bones, the dialogue, the fight scenes, the everything is there. Just be more descriptive and you have a book. So for two years I took those five scripts and I wrote the first three books are done. And now book one's releasing
Hezr: Okay. Okay.
Jeanette: I have a hard time believing it couldn't be made into a movie because I'm gonna tell you, I've gotten to eighteen. there was the scene where Is it Grace goes flying off of her motorcycle? And I'm just like, this is nuts.
Hezr: So,
Jeanette: This is so cool. I could see that in the movies. dude, you have so many characters that are so developed and we interviewed Justin Deprima a few weeks ago and it's that same vibe where some novels, yes, totally a novel which is absolutely amazing in its own right, but there is so much action in yours, and I'm not even what I'm not even halfway done. that's my thoughts on it. Rich, have you been able to read the novel?
Hezr: Yeah, so I read is very exciting. yeah, I mean, I'm not surprised that you say that this was a movie idea. have you considered anime for this story?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: So that's kind of the goal or the end game. everyone wants to see their book turned into a movie or a TV series. For me, I would just be thrilled if this got turned into a comic book or a graphic novel in that anime style or what have you. just growing up reading comics, that was my in inspiration. And I wrote what I want wanted to read because I think the a lot of people have a short attention span. So for me, when I'm reading a book, perfect example is Da Vinci Code. So some of my inspirations, I am I don't know if familiar with R. A. Salvatore.
Hezr: you
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: So his books were like the Dark Elf trilogy. they're very similar to Lord of the Rings stuff like that. that was his inspiration. He's actually from Massachusetts, but he has like 30 or 40 books. And he started writing the Star Wars, the new era of Star Wars books and comic books and stuff like that, too. So he kind of taught me fight scenes.
Hezr: Okay.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Anne Rice is my all-time favorite. so the Vampire Chronicles and the Mayfair Witches, that's why all my characters have red hair and green eyes. if you know anything about her stuff. so I tried to pay homage to those people. And then James Patterson taught me about thrillers, suspense. So, like Kiss the Girls is one of the best books I've ever read. the Da Vinci Code taught me about pacing. He literally the short chapters, and I'm like, I love this because It's one of those things where you people joke around, just one more chapter. Like I read in bed. So I will literally fall asleep if bored, right? So I'm like, okay, so if I need fast-paced DaVinci code, didn't fall asleep. all of a sudden it's two in the morning and you're like, I need to go to the next chapter. No, I need to go to bed because I'm working tomorrow, because I'm a grown man and I have to support my family. you know and then Dean Kuntz was someone else I'd love to call out because I read his Frankenstein. I don't know you've ever read his Frankenstein. Crazy. Just such a different take. And I was like, that's
Hezr: Yeah
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: yeah, it was atmospheric, world building. And then his Odd Thomas, like my characters, like Harrison can see ghosts, and I got that from Thomas. So I took all of that and hodgepodged it together. But as far as the character development, these were all separate stories at one point. So, like Scarlet and Sage, they were my
Hezr: Right.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: characters. Alaric James was the first character I ever came up with. Then Harrison was the second, but then Scarlet and Sage were my next storyline. And I had that completely different. They worked for the government. They were like CIA type agents because I love James Bond. So I was like, these people are going to be like my Ethan Hunt or my James Bond or what have you. And they were a husband-wife team and so on. So over the years I took those characters and I just put them into one book and now a five book series.
Hezr: Excellent. Yeah, big fan of all you The first thing, think Darkfall was the first book I read Dean Koons and I was hooked. And then I read Seize the Night and Fear Nothing that was an incredible character who can't go in the sunlight. familiar with that guy?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: No, I didn't read that book.
Hezr: Okay, yeah, he lives at night and sleeps during the day because he has his skin condition. yeah, he has fascinating adventures running around all night while everybody else is asleep. and any Dean Koons, it gets crazy fantastical in a heartbeat. and I love
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: great.
Hezr: the I love taking the established characters Janette and I have talked about this on a, we talked with Sparks about taking
Jeanette: Hm, yes.
Hezr: pictures and having different takes on them, because I love that Frankenstein idea. I've always lamented that they can't do a decent house of Frankenstein. there still isn't a decent mashup of Frankenstein Dracula Wolfman. and it's just out there waiting.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Did you see or watch Monster Squad back in the day in eighties?
Hezr: Yeah, I mean look, that's as close as we're gonna get, because It's not the highest quality, but it's a great fun movie.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I keep saying that could be made into a T V series today with today's technology.
Hezr: easily, should easily, would crush stranger things.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I was just gonna say that it would be similar 'cause it's the kids on the bikes. Yep.
Jeanette: Well see, now you put it out there in the ether, and so now someone's going to maybe you should jump on that. do you have time to do something like that? it's in your brain, so
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: it's funny because like for me, I want to get this five book series completed. And then I want to do another five book series related to this. So once you guys read through, Aurora is one of my favorite characters, and try not to tell she doesn't even have a last name, so I try not to tell you guys, the readers, too much about her. and
Hezr: Thank
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: her sister Adia, who you'll meet in book two. so they are part of the Po Ming,
Hezr: thank
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: which is like an ancient Chinese warrior bloodline that fights supernatural beings. And you find out in the next five book series who they are and where they came from. not to kind of, you know, people like teasers like, hey, you might have to wait like five years before you see that. But that s saga will be called the Book of Creation. And I'm big into colors, so this book of souls saga is pink and black.
Hezr: and I'm going about the importance of of
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Because one of my characters is Death and she created the Book of Souls and you don't find that out 'til book three. but I kinda hint at it throughout book one and book two. And then she's pink and black. she is. So I made Death a female 'cause I wanted to do different gender swapping. So then I made my other character who's gonna be called Life is a male and he's white and blue. And those two are like my yin and yang of the universe. They basically created the whole universe that we know today. Death and life.
Hezr: So I wanna catch the rest of the viewers up. first book introduces us to this world, ton of supernatural stuff going on. And there is a bloodline of Christ they don't know it. These people don't know that they're descended from Jesus Christ. At the same time, the supernatural forces of good and evil are aware and have been tracking them because they're basically pawns in like a greater game of dominance over good and evil. And you've got Satan who's plotting a massive world, overturn using the last descendant and then the forces of good, which are different factions that all kind of come together to unite against all the evil and to try to stop them. And really, it's a self-contained story about, this good versus evil while establishing this world. that also really does tell you this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Exactly.
Hezr: You haven't written the last two books, but do you already know how everything's going to end?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yes. the last two books, book four and five, are in screenplay form. So all of the screenplays are done. So yeah. So I do
Hezr: right. You already have this. So yeah, it's all map.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: know how it will all play out in on Goodreads, one of the reviewers, her name's Kay. She was one of the first people that ARC read for me. And she was Asking me questions as she was reading it. And she's like, listen, what's up with Jacob? Because like I thought he was the star of the show. And I didn't tell her anything. I tried to play coy. And then at the end, she's like, Jacob's not the star. She's like, everybody is. And I said, Yeah, that was kind of my point. I said, I decided to write the Avengers first. Instead of all the backstories in, Iron Man and then Captain America and Hulk and then Thor. And then all of a sudden you get the Avengers. I said, I just said, you know what? I'm gonna write Avengers first, in my And I said it'll introduce you to all of the characters and hopefully you connect with more than one of them and then you wanna know more. So for me, the story's done, and knew how it was going to end. Basically, because I usually come up with the beginning and the end first, and then I write toward that. So I don't necessarily outline, but I will write something for each chapter. Like Grace fights bad guys, Aurora kicks ass. Harrison and Sally have a moment, and then that's my chapter, what it's supposed to be based on, and then I try to pace so that it's action-packed. But then it slows down when it needs to. And I try to throw the bad guys in there. Cause I want the bad guys to be bad. But also you like read the book, you'll know that no one really takes themselves too serious. Even Satan. will kind of have these moments where you it's kind of comical. And that's basically I got that from James Patterson. Cause even his villains, they tend to over the top and at times you're like, That's weird. But then I kind of like that. So for me, that's what I tried to do is just make it character driven. And then at the end, you're kind of like, wait, who is the main character? Now, in my mind, it's the whole all five books really play off of Alaric, or some people, if you watch Vampire Diaries, they call them Alaric. So my wife and I fight over that all the time because we loved vampire diaries. She's like, you have to call him Alaric. And I'm like, I don't know. My Rhode Island accent comes
Hezr: So,
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: out and I call him Alaric. and then everybody corrects me. So I'll let people say the way they want. But in my mind, it's really Alaric and Harrison, Aurora Adia. Like those four people have a piece in every single story, if you will, throughout the five books.
Hezr: and way that that. And I think that's way to think that's a good way to So I that's a good that. And I think a good to that. And I think a good I And I that's a good think good to that. And I think good that.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Jacob happens to be this guy. however, he he's necessary for the story and he develops over time. You'll start to see his powers and how he starts to get more confidence in the later books. So
Jeanette: I
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: that's kind of what liked about her catching that.
Jeanette: definitely was cracking up with Satan's two sons. They have me laughing which is not something that I would expect. And I enjoyed that. A lot of times, the bad guys are just these cookie cutter bad guys they're mean and whatever. But no, they're just like, why are you taking so long?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: No Rom.
Jeanette: And I'm reading it in bed and I'm just like, my God. It's like sibling rivalry.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, Rom and Sam L are characters, like they're g they're funny, like in my opinion.
Jeanette: they were cracking me up. Rich, which character was your favorite so far?
Hezr: Well, it was a whirlwind to try to keep track of everybody, but it is kind of that mold of ensemble books. Lord of the Rings was like that, way back when, and it's kind of set that tone originally. So, I remember, did you read the Prideon Chronicles?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: No.
Hezr: Okay, was another one with a thousand different characters. And so I did find myself focusing on the vampire. I wanted to see more of Aurora. I was actually a little disappointed that she wasn't more the focus of this book. was because it was teased. and realizing that this is a series of books, I'm like, yeah, this has kind of got be paced that way because you would burn her out and then her story would be done. So you kind of have to hold back on that. But I did find the vampire and Aurora the most compelling for me.
Jeanette: So if I walked into a room And I had one of your vampires, ghosts, witches, and Satan. Who should I be the most afraid of?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: So what's honestly, you once you get through and finish, I think you will most likely hate Dante Kane the most because he's
Jeanette: Yeah.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: a human and he does despicable things women. So
Jeanette: Yeah.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: as a dad of a daughter who's nineteen, that's my biggest fear. is always like human trafficking and all that stuff. And one of my characters, Sage and Scarlet's daughter, was killed by him for that reason. He was trying to abduct her or what have you, to put into that lifestyle. so Violet was unfortunately one of the ghosts in the story. So Dante Kane was somebody that I wrote as this human character. Who you find out later has ties to Satan, which I tease, so okay if I, spoil that. It's not technically a spoiler. But there is something that happens later, that was pretty cool, I think. And a lot of people like that twist. But Dante would be the most he's unpredictable.
Hezr: Yeah.
Jeanette: I just
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Rich hop hopefully Rich, you like that twist. So
Hezr: Yeah. Yes. was great. It was well done, but it wasn't like a twist in bad faith. It was like a twist where you're like, well, that makes sense when you think about it. Like, yeah, of course.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: And then Satan, you can it's gonna sound crazy, but you can reason with him in a way because he has to follow the rules. Same thing with Raphael. That's why, Raphael, you would think he's an archangel, he can just do whatever he wants, but he can't because they have to follow rules. Dante doesn't have rules. He can just do whatever he wants because he's a human, he's immortal. So that's why he's scarier. You'll meet different characters in book two. So Alaric is the only vampire in book one and he's a good guy. but in book two, three, four, five, you'll see Alaric's rival, who is just so manipulative and sneaky, that I can't wait for you guys to meet him too. His name's George McCabe. So Alaric's from Scotland and so is George. So
Hezr: Hey, so do you recognize this guy?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, Vampire Hunted D. Yeah. I have glasses, so
Hezr: Okay.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I'm like, wait, let me see. I'm s
Hezr: Yeah.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I was staring at it the whole time, and I'm like, yeah, that's like so my cover, which it's funny because my wife hates my book cover, but she doesn't like that. She doesn't like comic books, she doesn't like anime. So she's like, no, he let me clarify Your artist did a great job. It looks nice, but don't like it. She goes, if I walked into Barnes and Noble and saw that, I wouldn't pick it up. And she goes, it's not my style. So funny thing is, my aunt was one of my ARC readers. And she left me a review and she literally said, I read this book for my nephew, and it was but it was such a great review. And she's like, reason I'm calling that out is because I started off only reading this because it was for my nephew. Because if I saw this book In Target or whatever, wouldn't pick it up because I am judging a book by its cover. it looks like an anime or a manga or a comic book. And she's like, not for me. but she also said that, like, hey, I like romance and spice and all that stuff. And I'm like, all right. I said that I get that. And I said, I don't have spice. I said, so then when she was done reading it, she was like It just was really good. She goes, it was really well like you described the scenes and the fighting was cinematic. And she's like, and it was very character driven. And she said, it just made me want to keep reading. And she would call me when she was done a chapter and go, What the hell? And then she's like, Grace, where'd she come from? Why'd you wait so long to introduce Grace? And I'm like, Yeah, I did that on purpose because Grace is so important to the greater story. And
Hezr: Okay. Okay.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: so is Harrison, those two characters. they become more than what they are now, which is pretty cool. And coincidentally I wrote them after myself and my daughter. So my daughter middle name is Grace. And I described Grace as Guatemalan and my daughter's Guatemalan. So I did that on purpose. I just made Grace taller. daughter's like, wait, I'm five feet. Why did you make Grace like five eight? And I'm like, because sh so she can be a better fighter. Like not like this little five foot like person coming up to you. and then Harrison is the most like me. I'm a smart ass, I'm sarcastic, I use humor as a coping mechanism when I'm nervous. so that's me. And then Aurora is my wife. No nonsense. We'll kick your ass like if you step out of lines. And I like that. So those are my three people that I drew inspiration from. Myself, my wife, and my daughter for those three characters. And then Alaric's the guy I wish I could be. Like I wanna be cool and tough like him and I'm not, so
Jeanette: What's interesting you say that about the book cover because we've spoken about this several times throughout the podcast. And was working on a book cover. I had a cover artist that pulled through it is beautiful. my god, I love it. but it is something that I never would have made. so the thing is initially I had to have a cover. And I thought, well, let me just go on and throw it into AI and say, make me a cover for this as a placeholder. Okay, I learned so many things, so many things about why that is not good. so then I'm then I'm like, it's scraping people's artwork and not giving them credit. It all these really not cool things. So then I thought, okay, well, I'm just gonna make my own cover for the time being. And I found some licensed backgrounds I took a photo of my actual best friend and used her in it. But Covers are hard, because if they walk in and see your book cover and they're thinking something completely different, then they are missing out because it shouldn't be like that. One person said to me, Well, why don't you just have a blank cover? And I said, Well, because nobody's going to pick that up. you have to have a cover,
Hezr: So,
Jeanette: it's unfortunate. wish the cover could just be like the blurb saying, This is what's inside. But yeah, now also personally my person, Yuri, he would pick that up in a heartbeat, so would my son, because anime, comics, all the things. But for me, I'm more of a show me something dark and that's where I'm headed. so I'm just very appreciative that you reached out. that I was able to read what you've put together because this is this is good. I don't want to go to sleep. Like I'm laying in bed I'm reading this and she's shooting off the motorcycle and I'm just like my heart's going and I'm kind of like, God, what's gonna happen? yeah, it's totally it it's amazing. love it. So yeah, the cover I don't know. Like I who figures those things out and makes decisions on that. But
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah. I literally go to Planet Fitness every morning and my artist works So how I figured out he was he could draw was they always have a whiteboard when you walk in and there was always drawings on there telling you about their promotions for the gym. And it would be like Superman or Batman Spider Man or it would be Dragon Ball Z or, know, One Punch or whatever. Like and I was like, wow that's really sick. So then I asked Michael. And he's credited in my book. and I was like, Mike, I said, Did you draw that? And now on a whiteboard with a marker, that's even like you know what I mean? and then he was like, Yeah. And I was like, Do you draw all the time? And he was like, Yeah, I said, do you have an Instagram account, TikTok, whatever? He goes, sure. So he sent it to me, and then I was like, Okay. So then I sat on it for a little bit, and then I'm like, hey, you mind drawing for me my book cover? And he was like,
Hezr: Thank you.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I've never done anything like that before. That's so cool. Thank you so much. He was so appreciative. He's a young kid, right? He's like, I don't know, 24. and I'm like, yeah, I said, you know, we'll discuss, like, hey, I'll figure out, I'll Google and see what I'm supposed to be paying. I'm book cover artist. I said, and we can discuss that and see whatever you're comfortable with. I said, but I want you to kind of run with it. I said, I'll describe my characters to you. I'll tell you my one of my favorite comic book artists is John McCrae, who did The Boys. hitman and ghostwriter and constantine he works with garth ennis who's a famous comic book writer and that tv show on prime the boys is from garth and john mrae was the artist and his art style is very similar to Mike's so I was like yeah I just want it to be like this and he was the one that came up with what Raphael was going to look like on the cover. I was very specific with Aurora. And I told him I need her to look like this. think of Celine from Underworld, but she's Chinese. She's from, China originally and so on. I said, and she needs to have purple eyes. And Adia has purple hair. I said, and that's very important to the And I said, Jacob, I want him, he's a skater guy.
Hezr: Hmm.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I said, so give him those baggy Django jeans or like khakis or you know what have you and he has to have scruffy, dirty blonde hair. And then Rafael, I said, he's just suave. He's an archangel, drum, whatever way. I said picture him with like a Hispanic heritage so on. I said, just kind of run with it. And he came up with all of that. so I think he did a great job and I love it and it's easy to see on a thumbnail. they always tell you that when you come up with your book cover, sure it's easy to see 'cause when people are scrolling on Amazon they only see a little picture. And that's why I did it black and pink and he put the glow around everybody. So it would stand out. So he literally, if you if you ever get the book in person, you'll see there's a purple hue around Raphael and Aurora, and then there's a golden, which is, his shield, Jacob's shield, the Valder, that's his thing that protects him, that Michael, the archangel, created, who you don't meet in the story at all. You don't meet him till book three.
Jeanette: It's funny how you come in contact with people, and that's how the genesis happens because the same thing with me. I had a coworker and I was talking about my novel, and he mentioned that a son did art a young kid again. And so it was very similar to what you're saying as far as. coming up with, okay, well, how do we do this? But also you want it to be their art, And the same thing with Rich.
Hezr: just a young kid who did art and we, got together and he did art from my book.
Jeanette: it's amazing. people talk about going on, Fiverr and these other things, but the issue that I had with that, maybe I was looking in the wrong spot, was that all I found was AI. personally, if you are using your own stuff and you're using AI to manipulate it. minus the environmental issues that go along with it too. I don't completely hate it not everybody can pay a cover artist. Not everybody can find one.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah. Yeah.
Jeanette: so in those instances, I'm not fully against it, but I do feel like there need to be protections for the artists because that is not right when I realized that it's just scraping these images from other people's art, and I looked at the initial cover that I had put together, I really just kind of wanted to throw up because all I could think of is somebody put time, effort, love into whoever this woman was that I just plucked out of the ether and slapped on there because I thought she looked perfect for what I was doing. maybe I just don't know about all the avenues.
Hezr: you
Jeanette: I've found out so many different things about work sharing, indie authors or not Spielberg we just don't have all these dollars to be like, Okay, I want this, go find me the perfect one. But Your cover's super cool. I hope that more people instead of just looking at the cover, maybe turn the back over and read what the back says.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, the back of the book blurb is you know, I put a lot of thought into that, so hopefully it catches people's Attention. that's my goal. But I'm hoping that I just can't get momentum. So sometimes you write one book and people don't see it and then two the second one and then the third one, and then all of a sudden people are like, hey, this guy's got a trilogy. Let me kind of see what's going on. And then my goal is that they look nice back to back. But my target audience really my goal is once this releases, I want to go to the Newberry comics that are around my area and see if they'll let me do like book signings there. get my book in their stores and that type of thing. And I know you don't make too much money when you get your book in a bookstore because it's like half off is what you usually have to give them. So I'm distributing through Amazon and Ingram Spark so that Ingram can send it to Barnes and Noble, Target and all that if those people want to buy from me. But I have my sell sheets put together and ready to go hit the road, hit the pavement, and ask people, hey, take a look. Can you put like two or three copies your store? The indie bookstores are great. they are willing to work with you. So the first one I walked into in to in Providence, Rhode Island, they're called Weird Providence. And it's based off of HP Lovecraft because he's from Providence. so they have this unique bookstore that has all these different things that deal with religion, occult, supernatural, a lot of nonfiction and fiction. But I went in there and they were more than happy. they were pretty impressed because they were like, sometimes we get indie authors in here and they don't have a cell sheet and they don't have a back of the book blurb. And sometimes the formatting's not really the best. he said we do our best to support them anyway. And he go and I said no, I said I did a lot of research and got a lot of help. I said I just didn't I didn't know how to
Hezr: Yeah.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: do this. know
Hezr: If they see that your format isn't quite exact, do they completely berate you, like right there in front of you and let you know how bad
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I don't know.
Hezr: you screwed up? Because that was just...
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I so what was funny was I had my reader like I have two editors. So
Hezr: That was Pat's experience.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: y it it's funny because I have two editors who don't normally edit books and stuff like that. So both of them are teachers. So one of them is my coworker and she's a retired teacher. But what she does is she edits plays. She's big in the theater community in her town. And she works with the playwrights and she edits plays all day long. So very similar to screenplays on like mine. So she knows that. And she's a teacher. So she looked at grammar, punctuation, sentence structure, all of that stuff for me. And then she kind of threw in like what she thought needed to be cleaned up as well. My other editor is my cousin, who's a high school history teacher and a nerd like me. he's a big Star Wars geek in Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones and Marvel DC and all of that stuff. so he helped me with plot holes, storyline, character development, what worked, what didn't work. and they were both very nice, but I did get like three, four, five pages of corrections when they were done. in large font. it could have been ten pages if they use small font. so they really helped me a lot. And then I'm in other author groups on TikTok and Instagram and I just asked for help and they describe things to me and basically were saying, Jeanette, what you were saying, like AI, you need to stay away from that for images, book covers and all that stuff because they will berade you for that. But It's funny because I'm reading for someone else now and I was going easy on that person too because I was like, hey, your formatting is a little funky. you're gonna need to do something about that. I struggled with that, so I bought Atticus and I just use that and it's a one-time buy. It's like a hundred and fifty dollars and you have it for life. But you literally write everything in Word, upload it there, and it fixes it for you as far as format. it's great.
Jeanette: Wow, nice. Yeah.
Hezr: Let me ask about the covers that you mentioned, so your three characters on that Rafael and
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: and Aurora.
Hezr: Jacob and Are you going to have different characters then on each book?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah.
Hezr: then will you be able to put all the books next to each other and they're all like standing in the same horizon?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: the way envisioned it was it was like a spotlight on these characters for each book. So book two, and my artist is already working on it and he has it drawn. It's not colored yet. And it looks really cool. And I can send it to guys after. but book two is literally called The Story of Alaric and Adia. So it's gonna slow everything down. You won't see Jacob, Scarlet, Grace, Sage. It's gonna be smaller it's a shorter book. But that's really takes place seven years prior to book one and also present day. So when book one ends, it ends on kind of a not really a cliffhanger, but like a okay, what are they gonna get themselves into now? Because Alaric is asking Harrison a very important question, you remember Rich. So that is you're going to see play out in book two. what you're really in store for is Alaric and Adia, their romance, their love, their relationship. and Aurora is big in that. So it's about how those three work together for the Lamia society. Raphael's in it, and they were fighting different bad guys. I actually introduced werewolves, the Norse werewolves. And that's who they're fighting in that second So you'll see those two on the cover, and that's a fun cover. because Alaric and Adia, you'll meet Adia and she's really fun. She's like the girl that everybody wants to hang out with, and she's just really cool. and that's Alaric's love. So that's who he keeps talking about in book Now, book three is going to have Harrison and Grace on the cover,
Hezr: So, thank
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: and you'll see Above Harrison will be Sally, which is his dead wife. And then you will see above Grace, Oscar, which is her dead father. because they're ghosts and they oversee them, they stay with them this whole And that book three is called The Realm Walker and the Dream Walker. So you'll see how that evolves. And then book four, I introduce you to my villains who you haven't really met yet. It's Venefica and Malum. Venifica is the first dark witch created by Satan, and Malum is the first vampire created by Satan. And Malum is who
Hezr: yeah.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: made Alaric.
Hezr: We do hear about Malam in the first. Yeah. Yeah.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah. don't hear about Venifica, but you hear about Malum. and they're gonna be on the book cover as two like scheming, powerful beings. And then finally, book five and that one's called the stories of Venifica and Malum. And I say stories because they're not linked, they're not together in they're separate. One that takes place in the eight hundreds and Malum's in the thirteen fifties. and then Book five is called the New Lamia Society because something happens to the characters. And you'll see Miguel, Scarlet, and Sage on that cover. So if you put them all side by side, you'll see the whole cast pretty much And I don't do
Hezr: Okay.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Satan on purpose because you can't see him.
Hezr: answer to my question is a no. But then when you brought up werewolves, do you have a Frankenstein's monster? Because then you've got the House of Frankenstein.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, I don't. I don't hey maybe in that next book series. We'll see. not but not in that one. No. I just have werewolves, witches, vampires, angels, demons.
Hezr: I just built the foundation so you're poised.
Jeanette: Well, and what
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: It would be awesome.
Jeanette: what's cool too is that you might be the bridge. You have people like me that are just horror the way. throw Carrie at me, all of that. Stephen King, my gosh. Right? and then you have your anime and your comic book people. this could be the bridge where it's like I've never really thought about that kind of art, is something that I'm like, hey, I wanna watch those movies or I wanna see that. it's different. And I love that it's different because so many things that are just regurgitation, cookie cutters. You just keep seeing the same thing over and over. you're
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah.
Jeanette: offering something totally different in my mind. And maybe it's not, maybe I just didn't know. about anything like this before, but yeah, very eye opening reading it.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I used I tried to be different on purpose, but not different on purpose. Like it was because I actually liked that stuff. So like Castlevania, Vampire Hunter D, Ninja Scroll, like you know that
Hezr: Right. my, while we were waiting for you to get your technical issues, I had Castlevania Literally was
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah.
Hezr: framed. The Super Nintendo version was on
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yes.
Hezr: behind you.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: That is awesome. And that game I couldn't beat, and it really made me mad. I'm not the only one. But it was such a hard game. But yeah, I mean, just another inspiration is like Van Helsing, the movie with Hugh Jackman. when that came out, it got dumped on really bad. And I'm like, this is kind of cool. And now people love it. years later, people literally are talking about it loving So
Hezr: They thought that's okay It deserves be dumped on.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: What I liked about it was the morphing aspect of the werewolves and the vampires. I thought that was cool, and I kind of stole that for Alaric.
Hezr: thought there were a lot of cool things in it, but then I had too many negatives.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I totally get that.
Jeanette: what would be the most controversial thing about your book that would make you cringe.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: the only thing for me is I discuss like suicide. So I don't know if it's something I wrote that people would say that's not true or that would like that type of thing, where they're questioning my lore because like you know, it's fiction, so I'm making it up as I go. But some people I think when you're dealing with acts of suicide, like that Book two is really based on that. So you know this in book one, you know that Alaric did something to Adia and she killed herself. so book two, the prologue is that scene, which connects it back to the end of the book. She is a vampire, so it's a little easier to kind of sit with people knowing that it's a supernatural character that did this. but that's really the thing I think if anyone had a problem, maybe that's where they would have a problem or, a trigger wanting to have that in my book.
Hezr: Well, I will tell you I have the audio scene So when I put it out, I do have one screen at the beginning that is a disclaimer because we do talk about Satan and we do mention Christ and the disclaimer is that hey, this is not our representation of actual Christianity.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yes.
Hezr: Just so that people don't think that I through this scene or that you through that book are
Jeanette: Okay.
Hezr: trying to push an ideological reality on anything. I think reading
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, and I agree with that.
Hezr: your book, it's not look, we know what happened when Da Vinci Code came out and that was kind of a brilliant move for Dan Brown, reading your book pretty quickly, nobody's going to get confused about where your book falls in the fiction and nonfiction. category. So
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah.
Hezr: I would agree with you that a suicide scene would be a tough, go for some people.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, and I try not to mention Jesus. I don't know if I do in book one, at all. I say twice. to
Hezr: Well you mentioned Christ
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: kind of lessen the blow more. I think because if you hear Jesus, people automatically are like, hey, you know. and then Satan, like I said, I make him not take himself serious either, Just so people know, hey, this is gonna be funny. It's not gonna be, angels and demons like Dan Brown wrote, which was probably more controversial than the Da Vinci book.
Hezr: Yes, yes,
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: So that's where I don't think I'll find people picketing outside of my local library saying, this guy, take his book off the shelves. just because I tried to be more I was aware. I know Kevin
Hezr: Right.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Smith when Dogma came out got a lot of heat and he made God a woman, Alanis Morissette, and people hated that too. so
Hezr: If.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: it's like,
Hezr: such an obvious fictional movie, you know, I know. Hey, listen, I need to talk about Kevin Smith for a hot second.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah.
Hezr: you know the story about when they pulled him in try to get him to direct the Superman movie?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yes. With Nicholas Cage?
Hezr: Yes, and that Superman was going to fight polar bears.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I do. And do you go ahead, tell me.
Hezr: Okay, so me just make this real brief because
Jeanette: Mm-hmm.
Hezr: Jeanette, you probably don't know this, right?
Jeanette: No, I do not.
Hezr: Kevin Smith was pulled in, when he was the hottest ticket, right? Coming off of the dogma and the mall rats and the clerks and stuff, right? Or Chasing Amy, that was a big one. So they pulled him in, they were like, we have this thing for you to direct. And he's like, yeah, this script of Superman, why do you have him fighting polar bears? And they're like, well, he has his fortress of solitude in the North Pole. So of course there's going to be polar bears there. And Kevin Smith is like, I'm trying to explain to them, that's not a fight. Superman and polar bears is not a fight. Those are like puppies to him, if even that. what are they doing? But then they explained to him that the main menace that Superman would face be a giant spider. Because in their words,
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I was waiting for you to say this.
Hezr: yeah, there is no more evil antagonistic menace than the spider in the animal kingdom, right? Isn't that how they said it to him?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: do you remember the rest of that story and what happened after that?
Hezr: Well, I know that the Wild West movie came out
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yes.
Hezr: and had a giant mechanical spider in the Old West. And then, when I saw Flashpoint last year, we get the different dimensions, the multiverses, and there is a Nicolas Cage Superman fighting a giant spider creature.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: And they did it on purpose
Jeanette: Mm-hmm.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: because it was
Hezr: Yeah, would have to.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah. I remember Kevin Smith saying something like it was the same producer or something, and that's why he was hell bent on getting that mechanical spider in something. And that's where
Hezr: Right, was for that.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: they put it in West with Will Smith.
Jeanette: so they weren't making fun of it? I thought they were being funny and saying this is ridiculous. they just really wanted that
Hezr: And that's
Jeanette: spider in there.
Hezr: hurting that on somebody who can appreciate that. So I knew you'd know.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Now, here's another funny thing missed. Kevin Smith was here in Providence last year, and he was at the Rhode Island Comic-Con. And I couldn't go for whatever reason to his event. But one of my good friends, went, who I worked with at Blockbuster Video. And he asked Kevin Smith a question in from the audience. And he goes, Do you remember talking to this guy, Wayne Elderkin, at Blockbuster Video? in like 1996. And he Kevin Smith, like he said he rubbed his chin. He goes, Yes, I do remember talking to Wayne Elderkin. And he goes, That Blockbuster Video. He goes, because I never called anyone else at Blockbuster Video. And I was like, son of a bitch, I should have been there. I would have like, Hey
Jeanette: Yeah.
Hezr: You should.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: man, that's me. Like, read my book. The best advice he gave me, he said. Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Hezr: Mm.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: He said, so if you write one screen back then it was screenplays I was working on. He goes, if you write one script, he goes, Don't bring it to film festivals or producers or whatever and say, read my script. He goes, you need to have an arsenal. you need to have three, four, five. He goes, because if they do like it, they're never going to say, Hey, let's make this a movie. They're gonna say, What else do you got? And if you say nothing, they're gonna say, All right, thank said, So you gotta at least have three, four, five different scripts or movies if you're going to make movies or what have He said
Jeanette: Exactly.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: so that they'll take you serious. hey, this guy is really serious about this, and he has multiple things. that always sticks with me.
Hezr: Excellent advice. Good deal.
Jeanette: Mm-hmm. Rich, do you have any specific questions that you had on the top of your brain?
Hezr: well, I did want to get the Kevin Smith thing out of my system, so I'm thankful for that. But otherwise than mean, when I have like a I have my comic books, I have them in the boxes over there, but I have the standing turn thing over there in my man cave corner. I've been collecting since seventy five. And so Do I have questions for Wayne? Yeah, we could talk for literally three days without sleep.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I'll tell you my one regret comic book wise. I used to have the ghostwriter number one, Johnny Blease, and
Hezr: OHHHH
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I sold it. I regret that. my daughter was starting to get into comics. And I sold it so that I could buy different comics for her, like Wonder Woman, Batgirl, she was into those. I said I'm gonna get a good haul for it. So I got more than what I ever paid But
Hezr: Yeah, that's a regret. That's for your daughter. That shouldn't be a regret.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: She doesn't read them. She doesn't read them anymore. It was that's was like one and done. It was a phase. But
Hezr: So I sold Avengers number four, the one where they find Captain America in ice. I sold that and paid for my wife and I to go on hot air balloon rides for our honeymoon.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Okay, cool.
Hezr: And that is
Jeanette: sweet.
Hezr: of most favorite memories of all
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Now, see that's awesome. And I did something similar because I also used to collect baseball football cards. And I sold all of them right before my wedding, so that my wife and I could help pay for the wedding too. So not as cool as yours, because that's awesome with the hot air balloons, but it is kind of Funny that that's like the first thing you think of. You're like, hey, I got some stuff in my basement that would probably sell. So check this out. Right now my prize possession is I have Lobo first appearance he's one of my all-time favorite characters. and I tracked it down at a flea market in my local area. and I found it. And I so that's kind of my prize I have a lot of Lobo, lot of Punisher, Ghost Rider. Blade and then also Hitman. Are you familiar with Hitman?
Hezr: Yup.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I probably have the first forty copies of that. So I thought those were some great comics. And then love Daredevil as well. I tend to like the urban, more grounded heroes, but ironically Superman is my
Hezr: Right.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: all time favorite. It's hard because I like the concept
Hezr: Yep.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: of Superman, the idea is great, but they tend to mess up the movies, a lot.
Hezr: Yeah. Do you have the Frank Miller Daredevil run? From like 168 on?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I have a couple, but not really. I have Kevin Smith's and then I have more random, not
Hezr: Gotcha. Yeah, good stuff. Yeah, we could talk forever.
Jeanette: Well then for our listeners out there, where can they find you?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: I am on TikTok and Instagram. I have a website, which is literally my name. if you Google Wayne A. Eldekin dot com, you'll find the website
Hezr: Mm-hmm.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: will give you the lore, the background. There's a lot of the artwork on there. for my artist.
Hezr: I've been right su-
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: It took me a long time. I used Hostinger. so it took me maybe like three months before I went live because I really wanted to get the color scheme in each page correct. and a lot of Google search asking like what am I supposed to do and all of that stuff. But yeah, TikTok, Instagram, and then my website. And other than that, the book can find on Amazon. I know Barnes and Noble and Walmart have it on their sites too. Release date Release date 1010. Pre-order now, but release date 101026. Just in time for Halloween.
Jeanette: you have a message or something that you want to say the world since you've got this platform right now?
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Yeah, guess for me, my overall theme for the book is all about free will and choice. So even if you're bad guy, you don't have to be a bad guy if you don't want to. So Alaric was obviously a vampire and he just chose not to be a bad if you later you'll find out some other characters get these challenges and they either pass it or they fail it. But you'll see that in upcoming books, but That was just something for me, like as far as like a trope. love found family, but good versus evil, it's so basic, but it just works. So as far as a reader, if you like that type of trope, good versus evil, not everything is as it seems. Sometimes I drop little things and then you think know what's gonna happen and it doesn't. especially in the later books, like you're waiting for this one thing to happen and it never happens, it will happen. just probably in a later book. so tried to write it so that it would be very character driven. So really my message would say, if you like that theme of good versus evil, free will, choice, that's what I was going for. I like things to be serious at times, but with a lot of humor. So it's a dark urban fantasy with supernatural characters like angels, vampires, witches, demons, werewolves and so on. But It's really more than that. I try to put a lot of grief in there. so these are people with normal problems and they have to work through them. So there's a lot of grief, right? They all suffered loss and that's where the ghosts come from. so I tried to give it a human element, a human touch to it as well. Book two is probably my favorite just because I love Adia and Alaric's story. But book three, in my opinion, is the most psychological. So there might be less fighting and action because my main characters are trapped in this dream realm, if you will. So they just keep replaying their worst time over and over again, and they have to figure out how to get out of so that's like a hint for that. So again, everything comes down to The person has to figure this out on their own. They will have help, but you have free will and choice at the end of the day. So if you like those emotional ties with this bigger fantasy, dark fantasy story, then this is probably the
Jeanette: Well, thank you so much for being on the show. I know that me personally, I can't wait to get back to reading the book, but first I have to edit this. and we'll be watching, we'll be following. what comes, This is like wow, yeah, you got a lot going.
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: And I have to check out your books if you guys can send those to me too. let me know.
Jeanette: Hundred percent. And
Hezr: Yeah,
Wayne Alan Paul Elderkin: Thank you so much.
Hezr: so
