Approaching Athletic Development & Competition in Children Ages 11-14 (Middle School) with Chandler Lewis

WEBVTT
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All right. Welcome to inside the wave. I
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am with Chandler Lewis for our third episode
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of our four part series on working and parenting
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child athletes through different age groups
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and phases through life. So he started at
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three to five years old and this episode,
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we're going to, uh, 11 to 14. which is fun,
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it's like those middle school years. What
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were your middle school sports? Were you
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swimming already?
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I think I quit everything in eighth grade.
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I was playing basketball at a pretty high
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level, tennis and swimming.
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You're tall, I feel like that works for you.
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Yeah, like I did a you. Okay. And I tried
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to balance between basketball and swimming.
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But it was eating. Obviously, my skills were
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getting neglected in basketball. Because
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I wasn't my main goal was to go to some practice.
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So my coaches in basketball were like, you
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need to come to more practices. And then
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my coaches in swimming were like, you need
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to come to more practices, you're suffering.
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And so it was like, I'm trying to manage
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the two, but you can't really manage the
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two at a high level.
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Yeah, it's tough, especially when you get
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to those sports that do have year-round Athletics
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like club teams and whatnot like I played
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football and football didn't really have
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that It's like you have your football season
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and then it's like lifting in the offseason,
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right? I wrestled wrestling is more than
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now, but it wasn't that big back then who's
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uh If it was your choice, what would have
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you did you choose was it your choice it
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was definitely my choice I mean the reason
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why I chose it because I was better at something
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than I was basketball Like was it your choice
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or do your coaches make you choose? It was
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definitely my choice.
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Because I loved practice for swimming. I
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loved to train. I liked going to swim practice.
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I liked basketball practice, but I enjoyed
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swimming more. And at some point, I knew
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that I would have to make a decision to choose
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one. Um, and I was like, fuck this. Yeah.
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I'm playing basketball anymore. You know,
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I, I slowly got built out of the rotation
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and I was playing less minutes and I was
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like, fuck this. Yeah.
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Um, so then you wanted to go start swimming
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at Schrader or you, you were, you just continued
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swimming there?
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So I swam for a club that was in the Cedarbrook
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region called Ozaki Aquatics. Okay. Which
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is, has numerous of athletes at the high
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level. Like they're very, they're very good
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as well. Um, and then I switched to Schrader
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my freshman year in high school.
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Nice and then you're a a bulldog. Yeah, I
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was yeah, very cool So I'm excited to dig
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into this. We're gonna do like similar format
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that we did last time We're gonna go through
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our acronym that we use at our Academy pies
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physically intellectually emotionally and
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socially to understand where the kids are
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at and then we'll talk about athletic building
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blocks how to approach building athletes
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at that age and then dig into competition,
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how to support them in competition, tips
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for the parents, things like that. So let's
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go to pies first and our first one, P physical.
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Man, I feel like kids at this age, they are
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like relearning their bodies because they
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are man awkward, like they don't realize
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like how big they're getting, how fast they're
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growing. It's changing at lightning speed
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and you kind of get that. Awkwardness. What
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are your thoughts?
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Yeah. I mean, for you're taller than me.
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Were you like, were you like shooting up
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or you're already super tall guy at like
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eighth grade was my growth spurt, man.
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Like, and it was like awkward and you know,
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like I had like hit pain and, um, I see that
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similar cycle with like a lot of boys that
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I coach. Yeah. And on the opposite side,
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I see with a lot of girls, like you'll see
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a 12 year old girl that's like six foot.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they're next to
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like five foot boys, 4'11 boys. Then eventually
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you go back at 14, that boy is 6'1".
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I was just talking this to one of our girls
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at our academy is a wrestler at Webster.
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And I was talking to the parents around just
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like how big of a difference kids are at
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that age. Like kids that haven't started
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going through that transition are still like
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so small. And then there's ones that are
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like starting to be strong and like put on
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height and put on weight and put on muscle.
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Yeah, that's what, I mean, that's for, for
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me as a coach, it's like the pre puberty,
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like time, you really don't know what's going
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to happen. You really, you really can't like,
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you can't put a lot of stock into an athlete
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at 11 years old, pre puberty. We have no
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clue, especially on the boy's side. It's
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like late developers or happen all the time
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on the girl's side. Um, there's, you can
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kind of get a sense in their earlier age,
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like at this 11, 12, you can really get a
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sense that this kid has great skills, even
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though they're pre-puberty, you can tell
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that the kid is gonna develop. On the boys,
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it's hard to kind of judge.
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Now as a parent and coach, supporting kids
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that are in this super awkward stage as they're
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going through it, the big things I look at
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is essentially, creating drills for them
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to relearn how to use their body, right?
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Like working on balance, working on posture,
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jumping, landing, acceleration, just like
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movement. What sort of stuff do you like
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working on with this age group, knowing how
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clumsy they can be because they're so like
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just awkward at this stage?
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Yeah. I mean, in the water, it's, for us,
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it's still skill development. Like, it has
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to be skill development. And those building
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blocks of those skills in the water are,
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like, critical at this age. Most people in
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the swimming community think the opposite.
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Like, it's time to train. Like, we need to
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increase their engine. And I've always felt,
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and our club has felt, that this is more
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of the age of building skills. Because if
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you have foundational skills at 16, 17, 18,
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you can really train. Yeah, for sure. And
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at 11, 12, there's kids throughout the country
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that are doing enormous amount of volume
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of work, and they will get, like, they get
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fast, very fast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I
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think about long-term development, and I
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think skill-based work is super important.
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So if we can build foundational skills in
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the water, you know, like long term, what's
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going to happen? We don't know, but we know
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that skills are going to be better off than
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like, let's build the engine. When it comes
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to like outside the water, like my experience
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with kids outside the water, it's like the
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13, 14 year old boys are so awkward to even
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walk.
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And man, you have to say it's like redeveloping
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all those movement patterns. It's really
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funny. There's always this meme that goes
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around. It's like you want to see the best
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squad in the world. You know, watch a two
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year old squat. It's amazing. But man, you
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want to see the worst squad in the world?
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Ask a boy in puberty to do a squat. It is
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the most atrocious thing. Like, and if you
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put weight on that, they're going to get
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crushed and die. Like, man, like toes are
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super splayed out, like heels are flying
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off the floor, super hunchbacked. I'm like,
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Oh God, we have to retrain all your movement
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patterns because You're in a new body.
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Yeah. I start, I used to start now, uh, in
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my position, I don't, I don't really coach
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kids in the weight room anymore. We go to
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outside sources, but I used to take on kids
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at 13 years old, just strength train. And
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that was the biggest thing with the boys.
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It's like, they want to throw on weight.
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They want to get to the next movement.
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You get a PVC pipe.
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And it was really important to me that I'm
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like introducing movement patterns that are
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solid and good. for the same idea that we
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do in the water for long-term development.
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I haven't remembered. Cedarburg was actually...
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Cedarburg football, I think it was pretty
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cutting edge back when I was in high school.
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I don't know what they were doing. They must
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have been going to seminars out on the east
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and west coast to get the latest and greatest,
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but we had a lot of good, you know, we had
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a lot of GPP style training back then when
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we were doing like Tabata's and hit workouts,
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but most of it was just body weight stuff.
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Like, Hey, you're going to do burpees and
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squats and pushups and stuff like that. Um,
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like looking back and I'm, that was 2000,
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I graduated 2006. So to like be doing that
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sort of stuff back in 2004 or five, um, was
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pretty unheard of. Um, And they did a good
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job with it, I think. But it is different.
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You can't just be an adult and take your
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developing teenager and be like, oh, we're
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just gonna do the same exercises. Especially
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if you're talking about barbell-loaded stuff.
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Yeah, I rarely ever put barbells on kids'
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backs. Oh, for sure. Or think about putting
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barbells on kids' backs. I'd rather them
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get stronger in a single leg movement than
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put a barbell.
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Yeah, because they still need to develop
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that balance and all that stuff. Intellectually,
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they were sponges and now they're even more
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sponge-like. They try to cheat the system.
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I noticed- In what way for you?
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Man, they're more worried about winning than
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developing skills. Um, so if your objective
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is to like get to the finish line and there's
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three steps you should take along the way.
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In a practice scenario where there's minimal
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resistance, they'll skip, you know, middle
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steps and then they'll go try to do it against
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full resistance. And they're like, Oh wait,
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this doesn't work. Um, I think though, one
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of the things that we do, especially at that
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age is introduce. uh, ecological skill development.
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Where we put two kids, um, in a training
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scenario. So we have a starting position.
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We tell them what the finish line is and
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we create constraints around it. Like you
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can only use your hands, right? Or you can't
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use your legs. You have to stay on the ground.
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You can't stand up. Um, and then we say go,
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right. And it's for the kids to figure out
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how to get from the starting line to the
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finish line in the most effective way possible.
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Which is cool, because then the kids are
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fighting, but within constraints, and it
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just develops skills on its own. But what
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it really does is give kids ownership over
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their own learning, especially when you ask
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the kid right after that scenario, hey, why
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did that work? Or why didn't that work? Or
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what do you think we can change? So I think
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intellectually, they love ownership over
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their actions and their own learning. And
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I think the challenge is, is how do you keep
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developing this intrinsic motivation to learn
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at this age? Man, because school's just like
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stuffing it down their throats. Yeah.
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The idea of constraint, we use, I call it
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constraint training. Yeah. Similar idea to
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you. And for us, there's, constraints are
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different, but I always, at this age is there
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has to be forced skills. Yeah. Like this
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is a forced skill. So for example, in swimming,
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a forced skill is, I'm making your hand do
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this. So for example, I'm giving you a golf
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ball, you have to hold that golf ball, and
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it's naturally gonna put your hand in the
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water in a very forced position. So like
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finding forced skills. is one thing, and
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then finding ways for kids to learn without
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me directly telling them is kind of the goal.
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So for us, it's stuff like, you're gonna
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count your strokes, so let's say I take 15,
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and on this next repeat, you're gonna take
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minus one, and you gotta find a way, and
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we're gonna maintain Simmerdolph kicks off
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the wall, and you gotta find a way to take
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minus one. That's a skill that they have
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to think about. They're building the ownership.
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But the idea of ownership in coaches at this
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level is super, super important, where you're
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asking them the question, they're coming
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back with the feedback, and then you build
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off of that versus just telling them. It's
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like, what did you feel there? Well, I don't
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know what I felt. On this next one, I want
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you to let me know what you are working on
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versus me directly telling you.
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I think it's a lot like at this age, kids
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just want independence and ownership, right?
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They're starting to realize that they're
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not the little kids anymore. I feel like
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this is the age where parents will start,
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at least in Cedarburg, start letting the
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kid stay home while mom goes, gets groceries,
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stay home alone and stuff like that. So they
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start getting these little bits and pieces
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of ownership over what they do. Man, even
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in this, like I just like giving ownership
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over the workouts like, hey, we're going
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to do a workout at the end of class. Which
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workout do you want to do? Right? Cool. You
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want to do deck of cards where each suit
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is a different exercise. Cool. You guys pick
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the exercise. They love that shit.
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Yeah.
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If I tell them to do a workout and I pick
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the workout, they're like, no, we don't don't
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know how I feel about this coach. But if
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I'm like, you guys pick it. They love it.
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That's funny. That's funny. I, I actually
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see the opposite. Oh really? Especially with
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the girls that I coach.
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Sure.
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Um, and I think this is definitely like a,
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a gender thing. Yeah. Um, and, or maybe it's
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the environment that we created with athletes.
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Uh, I've tried to figure this out and I've
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always gone back to like, you know, this
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is something that we have to teach is ownership.
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Yeah. Like there's not enough ownership in
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the athlete. Um, One of the best girls I
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ever coached, I got her when she was 13,
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and she's now in collegiate program.
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Previous experience when she was 13? When
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you got her? Or never swam before?
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No, she was extremely gifted. She was one
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of the best in the country. for numerous
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years, but you know, she went on to into
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collegiate program and at that age of a 13,
14:32.820 --> 14:50.432
14, all I was trying to do was build ownership
14:50.492 --> 14:52.514
with her. Yeah. Trying to build ownership,
14:52.554 --> 14:54.596
trying to build ownership, and it made her
14:55.096 --> 14:58.219
go crazy where, you know, she wanted me to
14:58.279 --> 15:00.080
tell her at all times what she should be
15:00.120 --> 15:02.723
doing versus like, hey, what do you think?
15:03.223 --> 15:05.045
That type of communication and interaction.
15:05.986 --> 15:08.168
Not just with her, but so many athletes that
15:08.188 --> 15:10.229
I've came across, and usually they're high
15:10.289 --> 15:13.352
performers. They want to be told what to
15:13.392 --> 15:15.314
do, but you're trying to build the ownership
15:15.354 --> 15:18.077
of this is also your thing, autonomy of yours.
15:18.117 --> 15:19.858
Yeah. I mean, man, it's something I struggle
15:19.898 --> 15:23.742
with. I could certainly well do all of my
15:25.103 --> 15:27.125
programming around like lifting and stuff
15:27.165 --> 15:29.267
like that. I just don't want to. I want someone
15:29.287 --> 15:30.008
else to tell me what to do.
15:30.028 --> 15:32.971
Yeah, but it's like guided. Yeah. We always
15:33.051 --> 15:35.194
ask the question to the athletes is what's
15:35.214 --> 15:36.976
the role? What's the job of the athlete?
15:37.256 --> 15:39.678
Yeah. What's the job of the coach? You know,
15:39.799 --> 15:42.021
the coach's job isn't to just tell you what
15:42.061 --> 15:45.204
to do. Yeah. They're guiding you. Yep. They're
15:45.304 --> 15:48.428
supporting you. They're there to help you
15:48.528 --> 15:50.971
or guide you to make decisions, but they're
15:50.991 --> 15:53.094
not there to just make you do things. Your
15:53.154 --> 15:59.018
job as an athlete is to prepare. perform,
15:59.718 --> 16:03.882
you know, take some autonomy, act with integrity.
16:04.442 --> 16:06.824
That's your job as a... Ask questions, tell
16:06.844 --> 16:08.805
the coach feedback, like how you're doing,
16:08.865 --> 16:09.846
how it felt. Right.
16:10.347 --> 16:13.249
It has to be a relationship between coach
16:13.289 --> 16:16.231
and athlete where both the coach and the
16:16.351 --> 16:19.093
athlete are working through communication,
16:19.233 --> 16:21.735
not just the coach telling the athlete what
16:21.795 --> 16:22.896
to do, you know?
16:23.937 --> 16:25.838
What about emotions at this age? So we did
16:26.098 --> 16:29.561
P-I-E, emotional. What do you see with kids'
16:29.581 --> 16:32.122
emotions at this age, especially with puberty
16:32.162 --> 16:35.344
and stuff going on? And I'm sure it's much
16:35.384 --> 16:36.825
different gender-based as well.
16:36.845 --> 16:38.226
Yeah, definitely different gender-based.
16:38.366 --> 17:27.686
I think with the girls, especially 11, 12,
16:40.988 --> 16:42.709
within our program, there's a lot of, you
16:42.729 --> 16:56.156
know, At the 11, 12 level, I feel that, especially
16:56.176 --> 16:58.378
the high level that you go to, it's like,
16:58.438 --> 17:00.361
this is when the big emotions are coming
17:00.401 --> 17:02.062
out. And I don't know if that's a parental
17:02.082 --> 17:06.627
thing, but you know, the crying, the expectation
17:06.687 --> 17:10.311
level might be higher. But I feel with the
16:36.845 --> 17:12.313
11, 12 age group is this is when as a coach,
17:13.214 --> 17:15.456
you can, you know, you want to allow kids
17:15.476 --> 17:17.778
to be frustrated, but you're trying to guide
17:17.818 --> 17:19.179
them to be like, Hey, you know, there's,
17:19.559 --> 17:21.861
there's a better way to, to go about this
17:21.941 --> 17:25.324
versus crying or quitting or, you know, throwing
17:25.364 --> 17:27.206
your cap or quitting practice or leaving
17:27.246 --> 17:27.686
practice.
17:28.587 --> 17:30.229
Um, yeah, it's just like a lot of emotional
17:30.309 --> 17:32.711
swings, right? Like they're, they'll be super
17:32.751 --> 17:34.212
confident and then they're not confident
17:34.232 --> 17:37.315
at all. Or, um, it ties to the next one,
17:37.595 --> 17:41.216
which is social, but. Um, even like emotional,
17:41.296 --> 17:43.938
social dynamics of like, man, a rough day
17:43.998 --> 17:46.701
at school with like socially with friends
17:46.801 --> 17:48.562
emotionally will show up during training
17:49.283 --> 17:50.724
all of the time. Like a kid will walk in.
17:50.784 --> 17:52.286
I'm like, man, what happened at school today?
17:53.039 --> 17:55.280
And it's always like something with some
17:55.400 --> 17:58.740
friends during some period at school. I'm
17:58.760 --> 18:00.801
like, well, that's why we're here. Leave
18:00.821 --> 18:01.681
that there.
18:01.701 --> 18:04.141
And they're super external. There's a lot
18:04.181 --> 18:06.962
of comparison, a lot of comparison. And then
18:07.002 --> 18:09.382
that brings on emotions of, well, I'm not
18:09.442 --> 18:13.823
good, or I do this and they do that. I think
18:13.843 --> 18:15.544
there's a lot of coaching opportunities at
18:15.584 --> 18:17.984
that level, where if you have a really good,
18:18.084 --> 18:21.545
solid coach that can kind of navigate that
18:21.585 --> 18:25.768
process, Kids learn a lot through that. Like
18:25.808 --> 18:28.310
this is, okay, I'm comparing myself to X,
18:28.330 --> 18:31.133
Y, Z. A good coach would step in and say,
18:31.173 --> 18:33.775
all right, let's think about ourself. This
18:33.835 --> 18:34.996
is what happens when you think about other
18:35.016 --> 18:38.279
people. There's a lot of coaching opportunities
18:38.660 --> 18:40.041
and parental opportunities there.
18:40.161 --> 18:43.724
There's a lot of peer approval dynamics at
18:43.764 --> 18:48.088
this age. I think you run into a lot of kids
18:49.051 --> 18:51.032
wanting to change sports because their friends
18:51.092 --> 18:52.992
play a sport. And I want to do that sport
18:53.052 --> 18:55.873
because that's what our friendship group
18:55.933 --> 19:00.454
does. Man, which is a, which is a challenge
19:00.494 --> 19:02.715
too. I remember like when I was in wrestling
19:02.735 --> 19:04.516
season, I'd be friends with the wrestlers,
19:04.576 --> 19:06.116
but then when wrestling season was done,
19:06.156 --> 19:07.596
I'd be friends with different people just
19:07.616 --> 19:10.417
because I wasn't in wrestling anymore. I
19:10.457 --> 19:13.398
wasn't around them all the time. But man,
19:13.418 --> 19:15.379
that's always a challenge to navigate with
19:15.479 --> 19:19.881
kids is their social clicks. Yeah.
19:20.421 --> 19:22.883
This is, this is usually when we have kids
19:22.963 --> 19:24.664
quitting for sure for us.
19:25.065 --> 19:27.706
Yeah. Us too. It's like the, one of the hardest
19:27.867 --> 19:30.469
ages, I think for a few reasons, right? Like
19:30.809 --> 19:32.370
to one where we started our conversation,
19:32.390 --> 19:36.453
um, a lot of sports pressure the kids to
19:36.493 --> 19:39.155
be like, you need it, my sport or nothing,
19:39.235 --> 19:41.637
right? Like you need to do just this for
19:41.657 --> 19:46.261
sure. Man, I have a couple pseudo nieces,
19:46.642 --> 19:50.505
fake nieces. They're real people, but not
19:50.585 --> 19:52.627
actually my nieces, but they might as well
19:52.647 --> 19:57.691
be. And they run into this in sports a lot
19:57.751 --> 20:00.053
where it's like, You know, they're trying
20:00.073 --> 20:02.615
to make their own decisions around athletics.
20:02.755 --> 20:05.057
And then the coach shames them because they
20:05.077 --> 20:06.518
tell the coach, Hey, I don't want to play
20:06.738 --> 20:10.101
anymore. And they're trying to take ownership
20:10.161 --> 20:11.582
over what they want to do. Cause they're
20:11.602 --> 20:13.623
in so many different activities and they're
20:13.643 --> 20:15.945
like, I don't want to do everything. I just
20:15.965 --> 20:16.886
want to do what I like.
20:17.226 --> 20:17.386
Yeah.
20:17.887 --> 20:19.368
Um, and there's all this social pressure
20:19.448 --> 20:21.630
around it, like making those decisions that
20:21.670 --> 20:25.613
makes it really hard for them versus, you
20:25.633 --> 20:27.695
know, when I, the kid that leaves my Academy.
20:29.151 --> 20:31.353
My number one rule is you just need to have
20:31.393 --> 20:33.556
something else. I don't care if you quit
20:33.576 --> 20:36.498
jiu-jitsu. I mean, I care, but I care more
20:36.579 --> 20:40.723
about them that I do, them doing my sport.
20:41.824 --> 20:44.446
Go ahead, quit jiu-jitsu. What are you going
20:44.466 --> 20:48.490
to do instead? Basketball? Awesome. You're
20:48.510 --> 20:50.172
going to just try out other things for a
20:50.212 --> 20:53.539
little while? That's great. Do it. You know,
20:53.759 --> 20:56.761
will I be there to support you through it?
20:56.901 --> 20:59.483
Might you wanna come back to jiu-jitsu? Absolutely.
21:01.564 --> 21:03.825
But I'm very much, at least in our program,
21:03.845 --> 21:07.487
so we're not crazy competitive, but we can
21:07.507 --> 21:11.029
make huge impacts on kids. I'm not the one
21:11.150 --> 21:18.554
to, you know, when a kid turns 12 or 13,
21:14.111 --> 21:16.653
be like, hey, you should consider quitting
21:16.673 --> 21:18.234
basketball so you could do jiu-jitsu year
21:18.314 --> 21:18.554
round.
21:18.754 --> 21:23.363
I'm just like, nah. You do what you love,
21:23.423 --> 21:25.787
man. It's up to you.
21:27.370 --> 21:31.396
And your guys' program's different than ours,
21:31.457 --> 21:34.241
right? You're a very competitive program,
21:34.301 --> 21:34.542
right?
21:37.455 --> 21:39.777
One of the reasons why there's so much drop
21:39.917 --> 21:42.920
off at the age 11 to 14 for us is because
21:43.200 --> 21:46.663
there is a lot of social comparison. And
21:46.943 --> 21:50.186
naturally as you progress in a program, especially
21:50.326 --> 21:52.268
as you get higher into the program, there's
21:52.288 --> 21:55.650
going to be a drop off in skill, talent,
21:56.331 --> 21:58.313
but also like the way that we separate our
21:58.333 --> 22:03.157
groups. You know, like we have, three different
22:03.177 --> 22:07.621
11-12 groups, and at the top end are 11-12s
22:07.681 --> 22:10.083
that are competing, maybe they're going to
22:10.463 --> 22:13.365
regional or even national competitions, and
22:13.385 --> 22:16.708
they're training five times a week, and then
22:16.728 --> 22:18.749
we'll have an 11-12 group that's not there
22:18.769 --> 22:20.811
yet, their skills aren't there, and if we
22:20.851 --> 22:22.352
would do them a disservice to put them in
22:22.372 --> 22:25.594
the top-level group, Whether that's skills
22:25.734 --> 22:28.976
or attendance or just whatever. Level of
22:29.016 --> 22:31.237
commitment. Right. Level of commitment. You
22:31.257 --> 22:33.218
can't put kids in a group if they're coming
22:33.338 --> 22:34.939
once a week with kids that are coming five
22:34.979 --> 22:36.960
times a week. So naturally, just the way
22:37.000 --> 22:40.762
that we displace our groups, it puts some
22:40.843 --> 22:43.484
kids in a position where they're going to
22:43.564 --> 22:46.585
naturally decide to say, I don't want to
22:46.645 --> 22:48.846
do this. I'm going to do this other thing.
22:51.126 --> 22:52.867
That's just the way that our sport is set
22:52.947 --> 22:53.467
up.
22:54.567 --> 22:56.448
You're still giving them a chance to get
22:56.528 --> 22:59.428
there. It's a really smart way to structure
22:59.508 --> 23:01.509
it. Martial arts, we have different levels.
23:02.769 --> 23:04.750
I teach an advanced class for our kids and
23:04.770 --> 23:06.590
the advanced class is for kids that have
23:06.610 --> 23:08.871
been doing it longer, that have developed
23:08.891 --> 23:10.631
more skill, that want to be more competitive
23:10.691 --> 23:12.751
and want to have a different level of commitment
23:12.812 --> 23:16.974
to the sports side of it. than others. And
23:17.014 --> 23:19.556
we nurture that. And then in our other program,
23:20.036 --> 23:22.617
if they want to get to that athletic side
23:22.657 --> 23:24.318
and get to that advanced class, we'll support
23:24.339 --> 23:25.699
them in that. But if they don't, we don't
23:26.020 --> 23:28.281
force them. We're going to give them every
23:28.341 --> 23:30.402
single opportunity that everyone else had.
23:31.423 --> 23:35.445
But they'll either decide that they want
23:35.465 --> 23:38.587
to stick with it as a hobbyist, or they want
23:38.607 --> 23:40.368
to stick with it as a competitor, or maybe
23:40.388 --> 23:41.069
it's just not for them.
23:42.935 --> 23:47.420
Yeah, it's important as a business that you
23:47.520 --> 23:51.584
have that. You have to offer programming
23:51.644 --> 23:54.047
for everyone. And I always tell that to parents
23:54.107 --> 23:57.010
too. There's a place for everyone here. We
23:57.030 --> 23:59.332
don't want to do kids a disservice by putting
23:59.412 --> 24:02.055
kids at this level with this level. It's
24:02.075 --> 24:04.718
not going to help your kid. But naturally,
24:04.778 --> 24:44.575
I think because these kids at 11, 12, 13,
23:42.935 --> 24:10.484
14 are so external, is if they're not placed
24:10.524 --> 24:12.527
in the top group, they look at themselves
24:12.707 --> 24:17.152
as less. And then the parent comes in with
24:17.232 --> 24:19.394
like, hey, well, why can't they be in the
24:19.434 --> 24:22.457
top group or whatever? and then it just dominoes
24:22.497 --> 24:26.160
into other things that are just not, that
24:26.801 --> 24:29.182
I don't think helps the athlete. We've had
24:29.283 --> 24:31.644
so many kids go through the program where
24:32.105 --> 24:33.886
at 11, 12, they were in the lowest age group,
24:34.066 --> 24:35.708
and then they just kept going, kept going,
24:35.748 --> 24:38.570
kept going, and they ended up going to Division
24:38.590 --> 24:43.874
I schools. I really value that there's places
24:43.914 --> 24:44.575
for everyone.
24:44.715 --> 24:47.457
I think you do a good job with those three
24:47.497 --> 24:50.900
groups in creating a social setting. for
24:51.461 --> 24:55.727
all of those kids to be supportive and successful.
24:55.767 --> 24:57.650
Where if you just have that one giant group,
24:57.750 --> 25:00.273
it's a little bit harder because not everything
25:01.209 --> 25:05.512
social is communicated, right? It's even
25:05.552 --> 25:09.134
just a social status or athletic status,
25:09.515 --> 25:12.797
name up on the scoreboard or what's it called
25:12.817 --> 25:14.758
where all the times are listed? Scoreboard
25:14.778 --> 25:15.018
still?
25:15.038 --> 25:15.519
Yeah, scoreboard.
25:15.539 --> 25:17.540
Yeah, like your name's still up there, right?
25:18.321 --> 25:20.302
And getting them the opportunity to actually
25:20.322 --> 25:25.019
see their name up there. Uh, man. So that's,
25:25.239 --> 25:27.321
that's the pie side of things. Let's talk
25:27.361 --> 25:30.784
about like specific athletic development.
25:31.385 --> 25:33.466
What should parents be looking for? What
25:33.486 --> 25:37.670
should coaches be doing with kids this age
25:38.811 --> 25:41.653
to help them become better athletes? Not
25:41.693 --> 25:44.175
just, I mean, we have two totally different
25:44.195 --> 25:47.398
sports between jiu-jitsu and swimming. Right.
25:47.418 --> 25:51.431
Um, And with you being a personal trainer,
25:51.891 --> 25:53.492
former personal trainer, kind of still a
25:53.532 --> 25:57.795
personal trainer, right. Um, you, you said
25:57.815 --> 25:59.456
you don't like barbells. Like what sort of
25:59.476 --> 26:02.318
stuff do you like doing with kids? Um, at
26:02.358 --> 26:03.559
this age, what are you working on?
26:03.679 --> 26:06.040
There's such a, there's such a wide range
26:06.140 --> 26:12.425
of skill. So it's like, I can't. I can't,
26:13.025 --> 26:15.747
if you've got a 14-year-old boy, or I would
26:15.767 --> 26:18.650
say girl, I think girls are way more advanced
26:18.670 --> 26:20.251
than boys, at least what I've seen.
26:20.271 --> 26:21.853
And if you take a 13-year-old, you could
26:21.873 --> 26:24.275
have a 13-year-old that's been done with
26:24.335 --> 26:26.116
puberty for a while, and one that hasn't
26:26.136 --> 26:26.837
even started yet.
26:27.037 --> 26:30.740
Right. So it can be awkward because there's
26:30.860 --> 26:36.284
so many levels of skill. But the introductory
26:36.324 --> 26:38.265
of strength training, I think it's super
26:38.305 --> 26:43.189
important. I value strength training for
26:43.309 --> 26:45.310
this age group tremendously. At least getting
26:45.330 --> 26:47.392
them to love it. Yes.
26:48.553 --> 26:50.434
Because it's going to be super important
26:50.914 --> 26:51.615
in the next one.
26:51.835 --> 26:55.177
Right. Super important. And the more that
26:55.197 --> 26:57.419
they're consistent with it and value it,
26:57.899 --> 26:59.380
the better it's going to set them up for
26:59.440 --> 27:01.562
long-term success. And it doesn't have to
27:01.602 --> 27:04.144
be that advanced. Twice a week for 30 minutes
27:04.204 --> 27:07.806
is great. And it could be basic, basic movements.
27:08.306 --> 27:09.908
Single leg movement, a push movement, a pull
27:09.928 --> 27:12.950
movement. Whether that's loaded or not, at
27:13.030 --> 27:15.371
least they're going through the basic movement
27:15.411 --> 27:19.034
patterns. But an 11, 12 year old that has
27:19.094 --> 27:21.235
never strength trained before is gonna be
27:21.275 --> 27:22.816
totally different than a 13, 14 year old
27:22.856 --> 27:24.897
that's been strength training for a couple
27:24.917 --> 27:28.799
years. I've done trap bar deadlifts with
26:51.835 --> 27:31.460
14 year olds. And they can totally do it
27:31.560 --> 27:34.122
and it's good and it is helpful. With an
26:51.835 --> 27:35.963
11 year old, you can do trap bar deadlift,
27:36.003 --> 27:39.825
but they gotta be foundationally good. Usually
27:39.885 --> 27:43.968
it's gonna be PVC, learn how to hinge. But
27:44.849 --> 27:48.293
I believe that you can add loaded movements
27:48.573 --> 27:49.114
at this age.
27:49.394 --> 27:52.758
Yeah, like, what is it? Run, jump, crawl,
27:53.479 --> 27:57.103
hinge, squat, press, pull. Yep. Sort of deal.
27:57.143 --> 28:01.928
Rotate. Yeah, rotate. So I set up programming
28:01.968 --> 28:04.029
like that, where it's like, I know where
28:04.069 --> 28:09.112
people are on the trajectory and we got to
28:09.292 --> 28:11.654
find movements that are in line with where
28:11.694 --> 28:14.736
they're at. Some kids are basic reverse lunges
28:14.836 --> 28:17.157
with no weight or step ups with no weight.
28:17.257 --> 28:18.978
And like, you better be doing that correctly.
28:19.379 --> 28:20.379
And that's just fine.
28:20.759 --> 28:22.340
Which is crazy because like, man, there's
28:22.361 --> 28:24.042
days where I'm just like, I'm going to do
28:24.122 --> 28:25.643
my reverse lunges with no weight today.
28:25.663 --> 28:27.964
Right, right. And it's a great movement.
28:28.044 --> 28:29.586
And then we got kids where it's like, all
28:29.606 --> 28:32.288
right, we're on 40s and you're 14 years old
28:32.328 --> 28:34.690
and you're reverse lunging and it looks fucking
28:34.730 --> 28:41.076
good. That takes a lot of progressions. So
28:41.196 --> 28:44.579
I would be really adamant about This is important.
28:44.899 --> 28:46.961
We don't need to add load yet, but let's
28:46.981 --> 28:50.444
get down the skills, the process of what
28:50.464 --> 28:51.805
you're actually doing first.
28:53.146 --> 28:56.729
And as I get into lifting more and more,
28:57.370 --> 28:59.652
which is weird because I've lifted ever since
28:59.692 --> 29:01.633
freshman year of high school and never stopped,
29:01.713 --> 29:05.157
right? Um, just focusing on control through
29:05.177 --> 29:08.039
the entire range of movement. Um, you know,
29:08.059 --> 29:10.802
I, I think these kids start feeling strong,
29:10.842 --> 29:12.664
so they get a little squirrely with it, you
29:13.024 --> 29:15.066
know, teaching them how, even with lightweight
29:15.166 --> 29:18.530
or even a body weight lunge, how much just
29:18.590 --> 29:19.350
control matters.
29:19.551 --> 29:24.927
Yeah. It's a challenge coaching 13, 14-year-old
29:24.947 --> 29:27.468
boys in a weight room. Like, it is a challenge.
29:28.689 --> 29:30.990
They want to lift more weight. It's a game
29:31.050 --> 29:34.432
of comparison, for sure. I think the girls
29:34.472 --> 29:38.214
do a better job of understanding it. It is
29:38.454 --> 29:41.816
challenging as a coach that you have to be
29:41.856 --> 29:44.877
aware that it's not just coaching like, hey,
29:44.917 --> 29:46.778
this is what we're trying to do. It's like,
29:46.818 --> 29:50.241
you gotta manage a lot of egos. You got to
29:50.281 --> 29:53.063
manage the social comparison in the weight
29:53.123 --> 29:57.787
room. It's tough, but it is important and
29:58.888 --> 30:00.269
I value it tremendously.
30:02.190 --> 30:04.052
Invaluable lesson to teach, especially at
30:04.072 --> 30:08.776
this age, is when to stop at a bad rep. I
30:09.316 --> 30:11.960
think at this age, reps in reserve is a or
30:12.040 --> 30:14.803
an RPE are great ways to program for them,
30:15.524 --> 30:18.648
help them understand what it feels like when
30:18.688 --> 30:20.350
your form starts going off and be like, Hey,
30:20.370 --> 30:21.972
this is, you know, I should probably stop
30:22.072 --> 30:24.454
one or two before this. And if I got to that
30:24.935 --> 30:26.417
fact of like, Hey, I got a barb, I got a
30:26.477 --> 30:28.279
bench like halfway up and I start quivering
30:28.299 --> 30:31.827
in one side drops. I probably at this age
30:32.688 --> 30:34.209
should have stopped one or two reps ago,
30:34.289 --> 30:34.469
right?
30:35.149 --> 30:38.071
It's funny. I used to, uh, I used to have
30:38.091 --> 30:40.033
like 40 kids in the weight room and it would
30:40.053 --> 30:43.235
just be me as a coach, 40 kids. And I have
30:43.435 --> 30:47.657
ages 13 to 18. An 18-year-old boy, a 13-year-old
30:47.677 --> 30:50.339
boy, that is completely different. An 18-year-old
30:50.379 --> 30:53.061
boy, it's like, we're going trap bar deadlifts,
30:53.221 --> 30:56.443
loaded pull-ups. We're going bench press.
30:57.263 --> 30:59.865
We're moving weight, and it's controlled
30:59.905 --> 31:02.827
and it's good. 13-year-old boy is like, can't
31:02.867 --> 31:03.327
even walk.
31:03.347 --> 31:03.687
Yeah, I know.
31:07.065 --> 31:08.506
That's a really hard environment and there's
31:08.546 --> 31:10.367
coaches all over the country that do that.
31:11.608 --> 31:13.769
But I've always been on the side of like,
31:14.490 --> 31:18.932
I'm going to be super adamant about the progressions.
31:19.232 --> 31:21.754
Like I am not going to put a kid underneath
31:21.834 --> 31:24.916
a barbell at all until I see really good
31:24.976 --> 31:28.678
foundational movements. And I'm very adamant
31:28.718 --> 31:31.619
about like we're going to be actually more
31:31.659 --> 31:34.841
hesitant to progress than anything else.
31:36.042 --> 31:37.622
And I think one big thing to add to this,
31:37.882 --> 31:40.464
not just in the weight room, but in the water
31:40.704 --> 31:45.066
or on the mats is. Skill and keeping skill
31:45.106 --> 31:48.028
under fatigue, right? Like as the kids get
31:48.068 --> 31:51.149
tired, can they maintain good structure and
31:51.189 --> 31:54.449
good movement patterns? Um, and can they
31:54.530 --> 31:55.290
recognize it?
31:55.611 --> 31:55.871
Right.
31:55.891 --> 31:58.034
That self-awareness is like that way. One
31:58.054 --> 31:59.896
of the top things they can develop at this
32:00.016 --> 32:00.196
age.
32:00.357 --> 32:02.739
Yeah. Yeah. In the water training for us
32:02.800 --> 32:08.066
is, is, um, this, I mean, 13, 14 is kids
32:08.086 --> 32:12.914
can start training and, uh, My background
32:12.994 --> 32:17.655
was when I was 13, 14, and honestly, I think
32:00.357 --> 32:21.936
12, almost 13, I was training 20 hours a
32:21.996 --> 32:26.097
week in the water. I did enormous amount
32:26.137 --> 32:30.518
of volume and it hindered my long-term development
32:30.558 --> 32:33.639
for sure. It definitely has impacted the
32:33.659 --> 32:38.780
way that I coach. uh now but we are as in
32:38.800 --> 32:40.680
the swimming community i think we're behind
32:41.481 --> 32:45.222
where we are really training kids with enormous
32:45.242 --> 32:48.542
amount of volume at such an early age which
32:48.602 --> 32:52.123
i i do think that you can get enormous like
32:52.143 --> 32:55.244
you can get big performance from kids at
32:00.357 --> 32:55.924
13 14 does high volume
33:01.770 --> 33:05.575
Not acutely, but in the long run, do you
33:05.595 --> 33:07.838
get a lot more injury with that in the pool?
33:07.858 --> 33:10.802
You would like running, right? There's substantial
33:10.902 --> 33:12.184
injury increase with increased running.
33:12.204 --> 33:13.165
Yeah, I don't think it's about injury. I
33:13.185 --> 33:15.749
really think it's about... Love of the activity?
33:16.049 --> 33:20.491
I think low aerobic swimming is no problem.
33:20.571 --> 33:22.591
You can do big volume, low aerobic swimming.
33:22.891 --> 33:24.732
So like you put an 11, 12 year old through,
33:25.232 --> 33:27.433
low aerobic, skill based. Like we're gonna
33:27.453 --> 33:29.674
go low intensity, but we're gonna be focused
33:29.734 --> 33:31.735
on our turns, and it might be a lot of volume.
33:32.095 --> 33:34.916
I think that's fine. The stuff that hinders
33:34.956 --> 33:38.617
long term performance is early on, high intensity,
33:39.177 --> 33:41.818
lot of volume. So it's like there's volume
33:41.918 --> 33:45.580
in energy zones. And I think that the very
33:45.660 --> 33:48.382
early on, we're going to go hard and a lot
33:48.422 --> 33:51.944
of volume hurts long-term performance. And
33:52.565 --> 33:55.206
that was my experience. That's a lot of experience
33:55.266 --> 33:58.428
with kids around the country and swimming.
33:59.629 --> 34:03.351
Are you still whooping all your kids? Yeah.
34:03.732 --> 34:06.954
So Chandler and I both wear whoops, which
34:07.014 --> 34:09.415
is like a fitness tracker. But a cool thing
34:09.475 --> 34:11.397
is you can set up as a coach, so you can
34:11.417 --> 34:13.338
monitor your athletes and things like that.
34:14.265 --> 34:16.405
And I know that you're having several of
34:16.446 --> 34:18.326
your athletes on it. Do you use it at this
34:18.426 --> 34:22.287
age at all to, to see how much like volume
34:22.327 --> 34:23.727
they're doing and the impact?
34:24.147 --> 34:27.448
It's tough because I look at 11, 12 is completely
34:27.468 --> 34:29.708
different than 13, 14. That's true. You know,
34:29.728 --> 34:33.009
you could have a 14 year old girl or boy
34:33.109 --> 34:35.349
that's freshmen in high school versus an
34:24.147 --> 34:37.010
11 year old that might be in sixth grade.
34:40.066 --> 34:44.831
I would be hesitant on adding variables like
34:44.891 --> 34:46.693
whoops or like, yeah, we're going to really
34:46.753 --> 34:50.336
track this stuff at 13, 14. But I do see
34:50.417 --> 34:55.302
that there is value, but not necessarily
34:55.382 --> 34:55.762
a push.
34:56.583 --> 34:58.645
Because I think sometimes parents don't understand
34:58.725 --> 35:02.323
how much activity these kids get throughout
35:02.343 --> 35:04.064
the day. Granted, they're in the classroom
35:04.124 --> 35:06.104
sitting around, but like they're still walking
35:06.164 --> 35:08.005
around. They still have a recess and lunch
35:08.065 --> 35:10.105
period. Man, most of the kids that I know
35:10.125 --> 35:12.366
are doing like multiple hours of athletics
35:12.426 --> 35:14.066
a night. Yeah. You know, I get kids that
35:14.086 --> 35:16.346
are coming from wrestling practice to jiu-jitsu.
35:16.406 --> 35:19.007
Like they're still running around. They're
35:19.047 --> 35:21.147
going through growth spurts. Right. And that
35:21.968 --> 35:25.588
just that passive expenditure that they have
35:25.628 --> 35:28.589
just from growing is insane. Yeah.
35:29.770 --> 35:31.136
I feel like we miss that.
35:31.317 --> 35:36.554
Yeah. And it's tough because... you know,
35:36.734 --> 35:39.896
it's hard to, to put that into like perspective
35:39.936 --> 35:42.017
of what these kids are actually doing. Like,
35:42.117 --> 35:44.058
Oh, I go to basketball practice. I go to
35:44.078 --> 35:47.220
some practice. I go to tennis. Um, I mean,
35:47.240 --> 35:49.861
that was my life. That's what I did. Uh,
35:51.202 --> 35:53.263
it was hard. It was definitely, it definitely
35:53.343 --> 35:54.904
like hurt my performance.
35:54.984 --> 35:57.365
I remember like summer going activity, activity,
35:57.445 --> 36:01.047
activity. What is, what are your, uh, man
36:01.167 --> 36:04.089
talking about hindering longterm performance?
36:05.538 --> 36:08.160
What are your key staples of recovery for
36:08.260 --> 36:09.641
athletes these at this age?
36:10.262 --> 36:15.306
Yeah. I mean, I look at recovery as for kids
36:15.326 --> 36:18.008
that are 11 to 14 is naturally these kids
36:18.108 --> 36:20.990
are like they're, they recover way different
36:21.030 --> 36:23.632
than me and you. Yeah. And it's basic things
36:23.672 --> 36:25.514
like make sure you get a good meal, go to
36:25.554 --> 36:28.176
sleep. Like those are very basic things,
36:28.216 --> 36:30.558
but they'll wake up the next day and they'll
36:30.598 --> 36:33.040
feel So much better, you know, like me and
36:33.080 --> 36:35.241
you we go through a heart a super hard intense
36:35.281 --> 36:37.743
workout Yeah, there's gonna be more things
36:37.763 --> 36:40.346
that we have to do But it's like we can set
36:40.386 --> 36:42.807
up the foundations of like hey This is important
36:43.228 --> 36:45.750
to rest up and get a good night's sleep and
36:45.790 --> 36:47.832
have a good meal Those are like those are
36:47.872 --> 36:50.093
basic things but at 11 12, you're you're
36:50.113 --> 36:50.954
not thinking like that.
36:51.034 --> 36:52.595
Yeah, you know, it's crazy These kids are
36:52.615 --> 36:54.597
supposed to be at this age athletes are supposed
36:54.617 --> 36:57.099
to be getting like 9 to 10 hours of sleep
36:58.476 --> 37:00.517
That's one of the reasons why we have set
37:00.617 --> 37:03.139
when I was in, when I was a kid, we had Saturday
37:03.159 --> 37:07.021
morning practice at 5 30 AM. Yeah. And then
37:07.121 --> 37:09.263
we would go Tuesday, Thursday doubles. I'm
37:09.283 --> 37:11.924
like 12 by 30 morning. And of course I'm
37:11.944 --> 37:14.326
going to bed at 11. I have always been on
37:14.346 --> 37:16.747
the side of like, dude, if we don't need
37:16.767 --> 37:18.488
to go at five 30 morning on Saturday mornings,
37:18.508 --> 37:20.009
we're going to start at 10 AM. Yeah. It's
37:20.049 --> 37:24.672
like, we'll start Saturday practices at 10
37:21.610 --> 37:24.672
AM versus there's no way.
37:26.351 --> 37:29.993
man, there's no way a kid that is doing an
37:30.193 --> 37:34.076
afternoon activity with homework and eating
37:34.376 --> 37:39.219
and parents driving. And then something before
37:39.319 --> 37:41.180
school is getting that many hours of sleep,
37:41.340 --> 37:59.809
right? Five 30, whenever, even at like 6
37:26.351 --> 37:47.224
00 AM gym lift at the school, like there's
37:47.264 --> 37:48.925
no way they're getting that nine to 10 hours
37:48.965 --> 37:51.681
of sleep. And as a coach, you recognize like
37:51.701 --> 37:53.983
your kids walk in at, you know, for a four
37:54.003 --> 37:56.606
or five, six o'clock practice, your kids
37:56.626 --> 37:59.088
walk in half asleep and you're like, I know
37:59.108 --> 37:59.809
why you're tired.
38:00.171 --> 38:03.033
Right. And at this age, it's like that the
38:03.854 --> 38:08.938
investment of valuing sleep over training
38:09.298 --> 38:12.181
is, I think more, I think there's, there's
38:12.281 --> 38:32.679
more return on not doing doubles at 13, 14
38:16.364 --> 38:20.948
years old in sleeping versus going to do
38:21.068 --> 38:23.250
more volume and swimming early in the morning.
38:23.770 --> 38:26.293
And I think that that in my community is
38:26.513 --> 38:30.517
actually, that's not the normal opinion.
38:31.218 --> 38:32.679
Yeah. In my community.
38:32.699 --> 38:35.684
It's crazy. I think this is also a great
38:35.784 --> 38:38.406
age to teach kids about nutrition, giving
38:38.446 --> 38:40.607
them ownership over it. We try to do that
38:40.647 --> 38:43.289
when they're even younger, like, hey, what
38:43.309 --> 38:45.551
are good things to eat before a practice,
38:45.591 --> 38:47.832
right? What should you be eating before or
38:47.912 --> 38:51.555
during a competition between rounds? But
38:51.595 --> 38:54.417
man, at this age, especially as the kids
38:54.597 --> 38:57.419
want more output from their bodies, right,
38:57.439 --> 38:59.848
they have higher expectations and how much
38:59.928 --> 39:03.150
volume that they wanna do, giving them ownership
39:03.390 --> 39:05.691
over what they should be eating and how to
39:05.751 --> 39:08.613
fuel themselves is another great opportunity
39:08.653 --> 39:09.193
for parents.
39:09.393 --> 39:12.535
Yeah, 100%. And it also is a little touchy
39:12.555 --> 39:17.658
subject, like as a coach. For sure. But I
39:17.738 --> 39:21.580
feel like there's something there that as
39:21.620 --> 39:23.561
a coach, you can put a lot of emphasis into
39:23.581 --> 39:26.082
that is not like, hey, you need to lose weight
39:26.122 --> 39:28.143
or whatever. It's like, I'm trying to help
39:28.203 --> 39:28.964
your athlete
39:29.324 --> 39:29.564
Yeah.
39:30.405 --> 39:32.707
Develop long term man to talk about.
39:32.747 --> 39:34.509
I mean, I came from wrestling, right?
39:34.669 --> 39:36.931
Right. That's a bat. Yeah. That's hard.
39:37.272 --> 39:39.734
Really hard, especially for me. Like I was
39:39.894 --> 39:43.238
cutting weight, not at not in middle school,
39:43.298 --> 39:45.200
necessarily, maybe just a little bit.
39:45.360 --> 39:45.600
Yeah.
39:46.020 --> 39:48.042
But man, when high school rolled around and
39:48.082 --> 39:49.564
we'll talk about that in the next podcast,
39:49.584 --> 39:52.697
like I was cutting weight. all of the time.
39:52.737 --> 39:55.238
Yeah, that's crazy. But it's like, at this
39:55.298 --> 39:57.199
age, it's basic things. All right, let's
39:57.239 --> 39:58.460
make sure everyone has a water bottle at
39:58.480 --> 40:00.741
practice. You know, we're gonna get a snack.
40:01.201 --> 40:03.002
When we get home, let's make sure we're eating.
40:03.482 --> 40:05.183
Before some eat, what are some things that
40:05.203 --> 40:07.164
we can eat? Well, you know, are you gonna
40:07.184 --> 40:09.405
eat pizza or are you gonna eat this big,
40:09.465 --> 40:11.567
nice breakfast with the meat, a protein,
40:11.607 --> 40:15.709
a carb? You know, those are like small, basic
40:15.729 --> 40:17.089
things that me and you are like- Yeah, teach
40:17.109 --> 40:18.730
them how to recognize that like pizza's sitting
40:18.770 --> 40:19.371
in your gut.
40:20.731 --> 40:22.792
is not going to feel the best, but maybe
40:22.832 --> 40:25.552
that equivalent amount of carbs in banana
40:25.632 --> 40:30.113
and honey form would feel better. That's
40:30.153 --> 40:32.554
a challenge, but I think it's, again, we
40:32.614 --> 40:35.234
want to give kids as much ownership at this
40:36.374 --> 40:38.495
age as possible so they can learn how to
40:38.575 --> 40:41.716
do it as it starts to matter even more and
40:41.736 --> 40:45.896
more in their sport. Let's talk about competition
40:46.457 --> 40:50.330
in these ages. What do you like to look for?
40:50.370 --> 40:54.212
What are your tips for parents and kids approaching
40:54.252 --> 40:56.514
competition in this age group? Because you're
40:56.534 --> 40:59.015
starting to get competitive, right?
40:59.215 --> 41:02.237
We have 11, 12s that go through, we call
41:02.277 --> 41:06.800
it, I mean, it's like a national event. Kids
41:06.960 --> 41:09.302
at 11 can qualify for nationals. Kids at
40:59.215 --> 41:11.263
12 can qualify for nationals. 13, 14 can
41:11.403 --> 41:14.404
qualify for nationals. But we have to keep
41:14.444 --> 41:16.985
it fun because there's so much external things.
41:17.065 --> 41:20.005
And I hate saying, like, we'll have fun with
41:20.065 --> 41:22.926
it because that's such a subjective thing.
41:23.786 --> 41:25.206
What's fun to me is going to be different
41:25.226 --> 41:28.067
than what's fun to you. But defining what
41:28.167 --> 41:31.888
fun means is important. And fun could be
41:32.028 --> 41:33.568
we're just getting up and we're competing.
41:34.148 --> 41:36.849
Fun could be, you know, I'm challenging myself.
41:37.969 --> 41:40.390
It doesn't mean that, like, we can't put
41:42.850 --> 41:44.571
You know, we can't have goals. We can't have,
41:45.671 --> 41:48.433
um, you know, specific meets that we're looking
41:48.493 --> 41:52.434
for or trying to perform at, but it, um,
41:52.695 --> 41:56.356
the, the idea of defining fun is important
41:56.416 --> 41:59.898
and we can't put additional pressure on athletes
41:59.938 --> 42:01.679
at this age. Cause we, we don't know what's
42:01.699 --> 42:03.860
going to happen the next X amount of years.
42:04.320 --> 42:06.261
So we can't talk about collegiate swimming.
42:07.141 --> 42:09.702
Oh, what do we got to do to set up Sally
42:09.782 --> 43:09.836
to go? Yeah. Cal Berkeley when she's 11,
40:59.215 --> 42:16.725
12. Those conversations are just waste of
42:16.785 --> 42:20.207
time, you know? So I think it's really about
42:20.747 --> 42:23.328
setting up the foundation of, okay, meets
42:23.388 --> 42:25.829
are fun because of X, Y, Z. You know, there's
42:25.909 --> 42:27.930
pressure in meets, but we look at that as
42:28.090 --> 42:30.631
a, that's our body's way of getting up and
42:30.711 --> 42:32.911
trying to do something, trying to perform
42:32.951 --> 42:35.332
at a high level. I think there's a lot of
42:35.392 --> 42:37.133
coaching opportunities there when it comes
42:38.574 --> 42:40.879
competition. Because at this age, you develop
42:40.919 --> 42:43.428
sports specific values. Yeah. You know, it's
42:43.448 --> 42:47.261
like. If you're just emphasizing result,
42:47.301 --> 42:50.023
result, result, then the kid is really going
42:50.043 --> 42:52.885
to sponge that up into the value of the result
42:52.945 --> 42:55.086
is the only thing that matters versus there's
42:55.146 --> 42:57.448
a lot of process coaching that can go on.
42:58.789 --> 43:02.611
For us, I think that's the real meat. It's
43:02.651 --> 43:05.193
like how can we implement process within
43:05.253 --> 43:08.095
competition knowing that these kids are looking
43:08.235 --> 43:09.836
at meats that are higher level.
43:10.376 --> 43:12.858
We've talked about setting process goals,
43:12.978 --> 43:17.421
process objectives in our past episodes.
43:17.841 --> 43:20.783
What sort of process goals and objectives
43:20.803 --> 43:24.065
do you like to set for these teenage years
43:24.205 --> 43:26.407
when kids are either in practice or in competition?
43:26.943 --> 43:29.546
Yeah. And I feel like that, that gets set
43:29.586 --> 43:32.389
up early on, you know, as a nine and 10 year
43:32.469 --> 43:35.992
old. Hey, uh, what's your, what are you working
43:36.072 --> 43:38.475
on? Oh, I'm going to try to maintain three
43:38.495 --> 43:42.979
dolphins off each wall at 11 and 12. Those
43:43.020 --> 43:45.062
should be the ownership of the athlete. We
43:45.082 --> 43:47.205
don't need to tell them. At 9 and 10, there's
43:47.225 --> 43:48.887
going to be a little bit more communication
43:48.907 --> 43:51.630
from the coach to say, hey, you think you
43:51.650 --> 43:53.433
could do this? Oh, yeah, I should do that.
43:53.453 --> 43:54.414
At 11, 12, 13, 14, now the ownership has
43:54.434 --> 44:01.643
to be bigger on the athlete. The athlete
44:01.663 --> 44:03.424
has to implement these things. They have
44:03.444 --> 44:07.246
to be aware of them. When it comes to process-type
44:07.286 --> 44:10.448
goals, I think that that's a progression
44:10.468 --> 44:13.130
just like anything that you do, whether it's
44:13.611 --> 44:15.672
skill-based or in the weight room, there
44:15.692 --> 44:19.475
has to be progressions. So we're looking
44:19.535 --> 44:22.419
for skills, really, that's what it is. There
44:22.439 --> 44:25.061
has to be a progression in the thoughtfulness
44:25.081 --> 44:27.924
and the mindfulness in skills. You know,
44:27.944 --> 44:31.328
like race plans, executions, the way that
44:31.368 --> 44:33.450
you're looking at practice, your goals in
44:33.490 --> 44:35.913
practice. At this age, you can implement
44:35.933 --> 44:38.395
those way more than a nine and 10 year old.
44:39.276 --> 44:41.577
I know, especially with where the kids are
44:41.597 --> 44:43.678
at emotionally at these ages, I really like
44:43.718 --> 44:46.098
to make sure that they have some sort of
44:46.278 --> 44:49.279
process school around remembering to like,
44:49.720 --> 44:52.501
take a second and breathe hard and swimming,
44:53.081 --> 44:55.001
swimming. You need to keep swimming. If you
44:55.041 --> 44:56.882
stop swimming, you're definitely not going
44:56.902 --> 44:58.983
to win. But in Jiu Jitsu, we have all these,
44:59.563 --> 45:01.083
you know, we have transitions and we have
45:01.143 --> 45:03.524
positions, right? We're removed. And then
45:03.544 --> 45:05.165
we kind of hold someone down for a second.
45:05.925 --> 45:08.908
Um, maybe even 30 seconds. And in my, one
45:08.928 --> 45:10.369
of my process goals I like with the kids
45:10.409 --> 45:13.932
at this age, um, is winning or losing when
45:13.972 --> 45:18.175
those control positions happen, like take
45:18.215 --> 45:21.978
a breath, right? Take three, just to recompose
45:22.018 --> 45:24.881
yourself. And I think it's, you know, for
45:25.081 --> 45:26.842
one, it's great, you know, get rid of that
45:26.882 --> 45:29.745
carbon dioxide and fuel your muscles with
45:29.785 --> 45:35.088
some oxygen, but. where the kids are at emotionally,
45:35.869 --> 45:40.071
if a lot of times at this age, you'll see
45:40.331 --> 45:45.134
comebacks happen less. And maybe it's more
45:45.174 --> 45:46.975
of a jiu-jitsu thing, but like, man, if I
45:46.995 --> 45:48.956
watch five and six year olds, like one kid
45:48.976 --> 45:50.757
could be super losing and they don't get
45:50.797 --> 45:52.638
emotional. They don't really recognize that
45:52.658 --> 45:54.999
they're losing. They come back and win. But
45:55.059 --> 45:57.960
at this age, like they get so in their heads
45:58.040 --> 46:01.123
about it. That I like introducing that to
46:01.143 --> 46:03.965
just give them like an emotional break in
46:03.985 --> 46:04.366
the match.
46:04.526 --> 46:07.108
Yeah, that's that's actually reminds me similar
46:07.168 --> 46:10.531
to what I implemented. I think we talked
46:10.551 --> 46:13.673
about last time, which is the battle behind
46:13.694 --> 46:14.074
the block.
46:14.294 --> 46:15.055
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
46:15.991 --> 46:18.513
Uh, that's a progression. So like, uh, as
46:18.553 --> 46:20.174
an eight year old, we tell kids, all right,
46:20.234 --> 46:21.836
when you get behind the block, put your hands
46:21.896 --> 46:23.677
on your hips, like Superman. Right. And then
46:23.697 --> 46:25.478
they go behind the block and they don't know
46:25.578 --> 46:27.120
why they're doing it, but they're doing it.
46:27.440 --> 46:27.620
Yeah.
46:27.720 --> 46:29.261
And then at nine and 10, we say, all right,
46:29.321 --> 46:30.983
when you're behind the blocks, what do we
46:31.003 --> 46:32.884
do? All while we put our hands on our hips,
46:32.904 --> 46:35.246
like Superman, make yourself big. And then
46:35.286 --> 46:36.927
we take some deep breaths and then they go
46:36.967 --> 47:05.468
behind the block and they do it. 11, 12,
46:27.720 --> 46:43.711
13, 14, there is a step in that progression.
46:44.191 --> 46:46.473
Like we're trying to recognize why we do
46:46.513 --> 46:47.874
this. You know, like when we get behind the
46:47.894 --> 46:49.935
block, there's going to be these things that
46:49.956 --> 46:51.797
we can control in the moment, right? And
46:51.837 --> 46:54.039
we want to make sure that we're setting ourself
46:54.099 --> 46:55.440
up for success. So one of the things that
46:55.480 --> 46:57.441
we do is we put our hands on our hips. Why
46:57.461 --> 46:59.143
do we put our hands on the hips? And at that
46:59.203 --> 47:01.044
point, we're like, we're coaching that up.
47:01.144 --> 47:03.206
Well, we got to make ourself big, trying
47:03.226 --> 47:05.468
to display some good body language.
47:05.508 --> 47:05.748
Yeah.
47:06.088 --> 47:07.449
And then we're going to focus on our breath.
47:07.529 --> 47:09.731
How do we breathe? So at 9 and 10, it was
47:09.771 --> 47:12.453
like, big inhale. Now it's like, all right,
47:12.493 --> 47:15.075
let's talk through it. Big inhale, gradual
47:15.155 --> 47:17.797
exhale. Focus on belly breathing, not breathing
47:17.817 --> 47:19.738
through the chest. Why do we belly breathe?
47:20.159 --> 47:21.600
Okay, well, that's going to calm ourself
47:21.640 --> 47:25.929
down. Yes, 11-12, we can do this. At 13-14,
47:25.969 --> 47:28.131
there's even a bigger progression. But those
47:28.652 --> 47:33.277
small things lead up to long-term at 19-20,
47:33.377 --> 47:35.880
they're still doing the same routine.
47:36.080 --> 47:37.942
I wish I did all that stuff.
47:39.583 --> 47:43.247
It's easy to do. It's hard to implement.
47:45.249 --> 47:48.091
It's very easy to do, but it's very hard
47:48.111 --> 47:50.293
to implement. But if you set up those routines,
47:50.333 --> 47:53.715
that process at a young age, those processes
47:54.175 --> 47:56.737
keep going. I've seen it for years.
47:57.357 --> 48:00.959
Man, it's so incredibly helpful. I remember
48:01.000 --> 48:04.222
when I was wrestling, I would look across
48:04.242 --> 48:05.342
the mat and I'm like, dude, that guy looks
48:05.462 --> 48:08.794
big. Right? And like instantly in my head.
48:09.474 --> 48:11.995
Right? Because I wasn't focused in the moment
48:12.075 --> 48:13.875
on myself and what is actually controllable.
48:14.056 --> 48:17.137
Yeah. Here right now. Yeah. It's, it's, uh,
48:17.917 --> 48:20.458
I think there's so much, there's so much
48:21.158 --> 48:23.479
coaching that can be done at this age around
48:24.119 --> 48:26.320
that you're setting up the foundation.
48:27.420 --> 48:27.680
Yeah.
48:28.801 --> 48:32.652
Um, what do you like doing post event? Because
48:32.672 --> 48:35.476
these kids are getting smarter. Yeah, reflections.
48:35.756 --> 48:39.221
Yeah, I think reflections, they can start
48:39.261 --> 48:41.243
remembering what they did, how they were
48:41.303 --> 48:46.029
feeling in the match, how the match went.
48:46.229 --> 48:47.651
Anything specific you'd like to do with kids
48:47.691 --> 48:48.212
at this age?
48:48.632 --> 48:52.800
Yeah. So for us, it's a little bit different.
48:52.921 --> 48:56.064
So you have a race, you have some downtime,
48:56.084 --> 48:58.086
you have a race. Usually how it goes is after
48:58.106 --> 48:59.428
your race, you go up to your coach, your
48:59.468 --> 49:00.329
coach gives you feedback.
49:00.369 --> 49:01.770
We have the same thing. Like, well, we'll
49:01.790 --> 49:04.353
do the same idea. Six, six matches in a day
49:04.413 --> 49:07.890
with like. five to 20 minutes between each
49:07.930 --> 49:08.170
match.
49:08.350 --> 49:10.453
Right. Okay. So it's very similar process.
49:10.573 --> 49:12.455
And, um, you know, after your event, you
49:12.475 --> 49:14.397
go up to your coach, your coach gives you
49:14.437 --> 49:17.561
some feedback, you go warm down or take care
49:17.581 --> 49:19.924
of yourself, get a snack, whatever. Uh, and
49:19.964 --> 49:22.126
then there's the, after the meet, there's
49:22.166 --> 52:03.511
going to be some reflection. at 11, 12, 13,
49:08.350 --> 49:27.390
14 is like we're just trying to start introducing
49:27.450 --> 49:30.593
the communication of athlete coach after
49:30.733 --> 49:32.814
an event, which could be a very unemotional
49:32.854 --> 49:34.755
thing. Yeah. Like, you know, a kid had a
49:34.775 --> 49:38.398
bad race, kid had a bad match. If they're
49:38.438 --> 49:40.379
coming back, they're in this emotional state.
49:40.579 --> 49:42.641
There's going to be an opportunity there
49:42.701 --> 49:45.423
to coach something valuable and hopefully
49:45.623 --> 49:48.825
learnable. Now we'd want them to be in a
49:48.965 --> 49:51.607
less emotional state. But they're going to
49:51.647 --> 49:53.770
go through this process and you have to be
49:53.890 --> 49:56.654
very aware of what you're saying. Years ago,
49:56.694 --> 50:00.459
I was at a meet and I was listening to this
50:00.559 --> 50:04.164
coach kind of communicate with their athletes.
50:04.545 --> 50:06.007
And the first thing they would say every
50:06.027 --> 50:08.089
time they came back, was, okay, give me one
50:08.109 --> 50:10.591
thing you're proud of. And I was listening
50:10.711 --> 50:12.393
to these kids come back and just be like,
50:12.733 --> 50:14.535
you know, I was really proud of how I didn't
50:14.575 --> 50:17.758
give up. Or I was really proud of my turn
50:17.798 --> 50:19.479
there. I really was aggressive in the wall.
50:19.539 --> 50:22.022
And they just kept going through this thing.
50:22.062 --> 50:23.823
And even though it's such a simple thing,
50:23.843 --> 50:25.244
like, what are you proud of? First of all,
50:25.285 --> 50:27.627
it gives the ownership of the athlete. The
50:27.767 --> 50:30.289
athlete has the ownership. They have the
50:30.309 --> 50:33.092
autonomy. They have to think about it. Versus
50:33.152 --> 50:34.993
like, Hey, you did this. Well, you did this.
50:35.053 --> 50:36.574
Well, you got to get better at this. Now
50:36.634 --> 50:38.756
it's just like me telling them versus the
50:38.816 --> 50:41.037
athlete reflecting on like, hey, what am
50:41.077 --> 50:43.799
I proud of? That's different than, hey, what
50:43.819 --> 50:45.841
did you do? Well, you know that even that,
50:45.921 --> 50:48.303
yeah, that idea. What are you proud of? Yeah.
50:48.763 --> 50:51.564
It's different. It goes to a very controllable
50:52.085 --> 50:54.106
process-based thing versus, what did you
50:54.146 --> 50:57.487
do well? Well, I went at best time. So I
50:57.527 --> 50:59.928
started into kind of implementing that in
50:59.988 --> 51:02.309
the post-race reflection. I was like, what
51:02.329 --> 51:05.271
are you proud of? And then, hey, what adjustments
51:05.311 --> 51:06.812
are you going to make next time? And then
51:07.152 --> 51:09.233
similarly, they're coming up with, well,
51:09.253 --> 51:10.613
I need to do this, I need to do this. And
51:10.653 --> 51:12.454
then that's when, as a coach, you can say,
51:12.474 --> 51:15.516
hey, you know, I totally saw that. I also
51:15.556 --> 51:18.917
saw X, Y, Z. Let's try and do this. You know,
51:18.937 --> 51:23.601
and then I've gone through so many battles
51:23.641 --> 51:26.483
with athletes after this race. Like, let's
51:26.503 --> 51:28.484
say it's a bad race. I've gone through battles
51:29.184 --> 51:33.267
that we go head and head where there's, these
51:33.287 --> 51:35.288
kids are in an emotional state. You know,
51:35.308 --> 51:38.250
they, they want to get something, some feedback,
51:38.751 --> 51:41.192
but a lot of times they're not ready to receive
51:41.252 --> 51:43.814
feedback. So sometimes the best thing for
51:43.854 --> 51:45.996
them is like, Hey, you need to go take care
51:46.016 --> 51:48.798
of yourself. When you come back. and you're
51:49.298 --> 51:51.740
in a less emotional state, then we can talk.
51:52.301 --> 51:54.343
And at 11, 12, that's really hard to do.
51:54.803 --> 51:56.685
Kid comes back, they're crying. Hey, I'm
51:56.705 --> 51:58.386
not talking to you right now. You're in an
51:58.446 --> 52:00.568
emotional state. You got to go take care
52:00.608 --> 52:02.370
of yourself. Come back when you feel like
52:02.410 --> 52:03.511
you're ready. That's hard to do.
52:03.631 --> 52:05.272
I mean, I feel like that ties back. You can
52:05.312 --> 52:07.614
tie that back to your stoplight that you
52:07.655 --> 52:09.476
use, green, yellow, and red. If they're in
52:09.516 --> 52:11.258
red, it's not the time to be giving them
52:11.338 --> 52:11.998
corrections.
52:12.038 --> 52:16.022
Yes, no way. And coaches, all over do this
52:16.082 --> 52:19.124
and it's hard to watch because that kid is
52:19.184 --> 52:20.965
just looking for validation in that moment
52:21.186 --> 52:23.647
versus like actual feedback. So it's like
52:23.687 --> 52:26.249
this game of like what's actually valuable
52:26.289 --> 52:28.731
here and it has to be very short to the point.
52:29.492 --> 52:31.273
If they're in an emotional state or a red
52:31.313 --> 52:34.235
light, you might as well send them on their
52:34.255 --> 52:37.077
way or teach them like, hey, let's bring
52:37.117 --> 52:40.059
it down here. We need to get to yellow light.
52:40.159 --> 52:43.381
What are we going to do? For post-meet stuff,
52:44.221 --> 52:47.203
with 11-12, we've done things, and I've done
52:47.243 --> 52:49.003
things where we're gonna talk as a group,
52:49.584 --> 52:51.785
hey, what did we do well as a group? Not
52:51.825 --> 52:54.146
so much on the individual stuff, but at 13-14,
52:54.786 --> 52:57.487
I've made post-meet reflection sheets, and
52:57.527 --> 53:00.449
I've walked through it, and it's basic stuff.
53:00.929 --> 53:03.070
What are you proud of? What adjustments are
53:03.110 --> 53:05.071
you making next time? What are your wins?
53:05.751 --> 53:09.713
but it's very process-oriented. And that
53:10.293 --> 53:13.695
progresses to the 15 to 18 level, but it's
53:13.715 --> 53:16.617
like the introductory of, all right, I'm
53:16.697 --> 53:19.998
after a meet, I can reflect on things. One
53:20.038 --> 53:23.320
of the things I've, a good perspective I've
53:23.360 --> 53:26.782
had with kids, is usually when, and I have,
53:27.042 --> 53:29.843
and probably you too, you have a bad match,
53:30.203 --> 53:32.264
you're trying to forget about it. You're
53:32.284 --> 53:34.225
not really trying to think about it, because
53:34.285 --> 53:38.448
it's like, That sucked. It just sucked. Similarly
53:38.468 --> 53:39.788
with athletes, they're going through the
53:39.808 --> 53:41.249
same thing. They're going to have a very
53:41.289 --> 53:43.971
hard time of reflecting on poor performance.
53:44.631 --> 53:46.872
But there's so much in poor performance that
53:46.912 --> 53:50.734
you can gain from. So the analogy I created
53:50.814 --> 53:54.435
years ago with a kid was, Okay, you go to
53:54.495 --> 53:57.817
a meet, you swim a race, and it goes really
53:57.877 --> 54:00.559
poorly, really, really bad. But from that
54:00.619 --> 54:02.480
meet, you learned, I'm going to work on X,
54:02.500 --> 54:06.183
Y, and Z. Because I saw this within my race,
54:06.623 --> 54:08.644
I had a really bad job of doing X, Y, and
54:08.664 --> 54:11.326
Z. So the next three weeks of practice, you
54:11.366 --> 54:12.947
go to practice and you're working on X, Y,
54:13.087 --> 54:16.269
and Z, and you're really, really, Like I'm
54:16.890 --> 54:18.831
dialed in on those three things. And then
54:18.851 --> 54:21.132
you go to a meet in a month and you step
54:21.232 --> 54:24.574
up and best times. Was that a bad meet or
54:24.614 --> 54:26.736
a good meet? And usually they'll say, well,
54:26.756 --> 54:28.396
that was a good meet. And then you'll say,
54:28.457 --> 54:30.838
well, why? Well, because I learned X, Y,
54:30.878 --> 54:35.080
Z. So it's like those, That's what you're
54:35.120 --> 54:37.061
trying to teach, is that there's performances
54:37.081 --> 54:38.942
that are going to go well, there's performances
54:38.962 --> 54:40.662
that are not going to go well. The ones that
54:40.702 --> 54:42.603
don't go well, there's so much information
54:42.623 --> 54:45.704
you can pull from and you can either ignore
54:45.764 --> 54:48.786
it or you can really grab a hold of it and
54:48.886 --> 54:53.027
learn from it. And at 11, 12, 13, 14, this
54:54.188 --> 54:57.349
is like the foundation of that. Eventually
54:57.369 --> 54:59.429
that's going to be, we know that it's not
54:59.609 --> 55:02.170
always going to be good, but you're setting
55:02.210 --> 55:04.111
up the stepping stones for long-term.
55:05.151 --> 55:07.972
What about parents? So we talked about like
55:07.992 --> 55:10.353
the coach's role. What do you like to see
55:10.413 --> 55:14.935
parents before, during, and after? I think
55:15.035 --> 55:18.299
the drop, drop them off and that's it. Drop
55:18.320 --> 55:19.161
them off, pick them up.
55:19.181 --> 55:20.843
Thank you. I think that would be a perfect
55:20.883 --> 55:23.667
world, but that's not reality. I have parents,
55:24.709 --> 55:26.812
uh, all parents, no matter if they're like,
55:26.852 --> 55:28.234
you think about the worst parent you've ever
55:28.274 --> 55:29.896
dealt with. And I think about the worst parent
55:29.936 --> 55:32.239
I've ever dealt with. and I have a very clear
55:32.299 --> 55:35.421
vision of my brain of who that is, but they,
55:36.101 --> 55:40.304
all of them, want the best for their kid.
55:40.704 --> 55:42.566
They're trying their absolute best, and whether
55:42.606 --> 55:45.548
it's their lack of experience, knowledge...
55:45.588 --> 55:46.808
And it's short-term best.
55:46.828 --> 55:48.149
They want the best right now.
55:48.269 --> 55:51.131
Right now. And it's very hard for them, even
55:51.191 --> 55:54.022
though they know They know deep down this
55:54.082 --> 55:55.263
is probably not the best. It's very hard
55:55.283 --> 55:58.446
to see past here right now and into long
55:58.486 --> 56:00.949
term. They want to support. They want to
56:01.009 --> 56:04.692
help. They want to do what's best for their
56:04.792 --> 56:05.012
kid.
56:05.032 --> 56:06.173
And they don't want to see their kid sad.
56:06.963 --> 56:09.224
Yeah. Where, where you're like, well, you
56:09.244 --> 56:10.764
know, this is kind of important for them
56:10.804 --> 56:12.044
to fail and learn. Yeah.
56:12.104 --> 56:13.505
So it's like growth mindset.
56:13.725 --> 56:18.106
There has to be, um, there has to be obviously
56:18.146 --> 56:19.886
communication between the coach and the athlete.
56:20.266 --> 56:22.867
The coach has to similarly to the athlete,
56:23.187 --> 56:26.208
give some, like, these are our non-negotiables
56:26.308 --> 56:28.948
as a parent. This is, this is what we're
56:29.028 --> 56:32.630
trying to implement in your kid. Sometimes
56:32.710 --> 56:35.092
it may not go well. Your job as a parent
56:35.172 --> 56:38.635
is to do X, Y, and Z. Now that doesn't always,
56:38.936 --> 56:41.378
that doesn't, even if you do that, that doesn't
56:41.398 --> 56:43.180
mean you're not going to have parents that
56:43.200 --> 56:45.682
are... What are some of the best things for
56:45.722 --> 56:47.624
parents to do before, during, after?
56:47.884 --> 56:48.765
Like perfect world.
56:49.085 --> 56:51.648
Yeah. I did an exercise years ago where I
56:51.728 --> 56:55.232
asked kids, and it was a trick, I asked kids,
56:55.873 --> 56:58.355
I gave them three note cards. The first note
56:58.376 --> 57:00.157
card, write three things that you'd like
57:00.218 --> 57:03.321
from your coach prior to the meet, during
57:03.341 --> 57:04.903
the meet, after the meet. And they wrote
57:04.943 --> 57:06.925
down their three things. And I said, all
57:06.945 --> 57:08.547
right, on the other three note cards, you're
57:08.567 --> 57:11.628
going to write down, Same idea, but with
57:11.668 --> 57:13.769
your friends. What do you want before the
57:13.809 --> 57:16.349
meet, during the meet, after the meet? Really
57:16.389 --> 57:18.610
what I was getting at was now the next one,
57:18.650 --> 57:21.110
which is the parent. Write three things down
57:21.190 --> 57:22.671
you'd like from your parents before the meet,
57:23.031 --> 57:25.111
during the meet, after the meet. And I had
56:49.085 --> 57:28.572
60 kids do this. And I obviously took all
57:28.592 --> 57:30.212
the coaches' one, read through it. I'm like,
57:30.312 --> 57:32.433
okay, great, got these. But I really was
57:32.473 --> 57:35.913
looking into what are the kids saying about
57:35.933 --> 57:38.114
their parents? And I sent that out into a
57:38.154 --> 57:40.794
newsletter. whether parents read it or not,
57:40.994 --> 57:42.615
and I almost guarantee you, they did not
57:42.655 --> 57:45.296
read it. I can almost guarantee you they
57:45.336 --> 57:49.437
did not read it. But they were so basic and
57:49.637 --> 57:53.478
so like, yeah, that's good. Three basic things
57:53.518 --> 57:56.619
was like, before the meet, you don't need
57:56.679 --> 57:59.040
to talk about the meet or make the meet more
57:59.100 --> 58:02.781
important. Just bring me into practice. One
58:02.801 --> 58:04.262
of the things that kids wrote down a lot
58:04.282 --> 58:07.563
was... Feed me? Yeah. Act as if it was a
58:07.643 --> 58:10.724
normal week. Yeah. It was like, oh, yeah,
58:11.224 --> 58:12.845
you should probably act like it's a normal
58:12.865 --> 58:15.007
week. Yeah. Just because you got this competition
58:15.327 --> 58:17.428
doesn't mean you need to give me this special
58:17.488 --> 58:19.849
dinner or cater to me. It's just like just
58:19.910 --> 58:22.051
act like it's a normal me. That means that
58:22.251 --> 58:25.153
your body language, the what what you're
58:25.193 --> 58:27.794
saying is normal, as if this is a typical
58:27.834 --> 58:29.895
normal week. Just because I have a big meet
58:29.935 --> 58:32.357
this weekend or a competition doesn't mean
58:32.417 --> 58:34.378
you need to change the way that you're talking
58:34.418 --> 58:37.380
to me or the way that like your behavioral
58:37.420 --> 58:39.381
you change. Yeah. It's like, that's such
58:39.421 --> 58:41.943
a simple thing. But parents do this all the
58:41.983 --> 58:43.965
time, all the time. You know, and then the
58:44.025 --> 58:46.988
second thing is like, after a meet, don't
58:47.068 --> 58:49.890
talk about the meet. Let's go get dinner.
58:50.691 --> 58:53.133
Seems like such a basic thing. Yeah. But
58:53.173 --> 58:55.335
it's like those parents are coaching them
58:55.355 --> 58:56.516
during the meet. They're going to coach them
58:56.576 --> 58:58.197
after the meet. They're going to say things
58:58.257 --> 59:02.661
or identify things that are just making the
59:02.841 --> 59:05.665
athlete really second-guessing what they're
59:05.685 --> 59:08.610
doing, or the athlete doesn't want to think
59:08.670 --> 59:11.094
about that. They just went through a weekend
59:11.155 --> 59:13.819
of racing and really an emotional thing.
59:13.839 --> 59:16.484
I mean, talk about a powerful, powerful question
59:16.504 --> 59:19.827
you can ask. how can I support you in this
59:19.887 --> 59:22.368
moment, right? Like, how can I support you?
59:22.728 --> 59:23.349
What do you want?
59:23.949 --> 59:28.171
Right. Those are very basic things, but get
59:28.231 --> 59:32.073
neglected. So my advice to a parent is to
59:32.133 --> 59:34.594
keep it simple. You know, your kid's going
59:34.614 --> 59:36.655
to go race. Your job is there to support
59:36.715 --> 59:39.717
them. Now, support them is also a very subjective
59:39.757 --> 59:42.178
thing. Supporting them to one parent might
59:42.218 --> 59:44.099
be like, I need to make sure they have their
59:44.139 --> 59:46.240
Gatorade and I got to, you know, set up their
59:46.280 --> 59:50.002
bag and I got to make sure they get, You
59:50.042 --> 59:53.123
may feel that is supportive, but it really
59:53.543 --> 59:57.184
is hurting them in their long-term success.
59:57.224 --> 59:59.905
You want to be on the edge of like, I'm there
59:59.965 --> 01:00:02.186
for them, but I'm not their coach.
01:00:02.326 --> 01:00:04.167
Because remember, they want ownership and
01:00:04.187 --> 01:00:07.628
independence at this age. When they were
01:00:07.648 --> 01:00:10.089
younger, when they were eight, they needed
01:00:10.149 --> 01:00:13.090
a lot of help. If you let your eight-year-old
01:00:13.130 --> 01:00:14.590
go and pack their bag, they'd forget their
01:00:14.610 --> 01:00:18.812
swimming suit. At this age, they can handle
01:00:18.852 --> 01:00:19.992
the responsibility.
01:00:20.192 --> 01:00:23.193
Right, right. So it's a very fine line of
01:00:23.313 --> 01:00:24.793
what is support? What does that look like?
01:00:24.813 --> 01:00:27.934
What are the behaviors of support? It's not
01:00:28.215 --> 01:00:30.195
packing the bag or making the special meal.
01:00:30.735 --> 01:00:33.176
No, those are great. Those are cool. But
01:00:33.696 --> 01:00:36.217
it just furthers the idea of the kid is just
01:00:36.277 --> 01:00:38.758
wanting, hey, just act normal. It's a normal
01:00:38.778 --> 01:00:40.879
week. Yeah. You know, you start doing those
01:00:40.919 --> 01:00:42.540
things, you're putting the you're actually
01:00:42.600 --> 01:00:44.661
putting the pressure on, hey, this is different.
01:00:45.242 --> 01:00:47.363
This is my mom is like doing these things.
01:00:47.443 --> 01:00:49.824
My dad is doing these things. You're putting
01:00:49.925 --> 01:00:53.106
pressure on the actual thing versus. Yeah,
01:00:53.627 --> 01:00:55.948
it's competition. It's fun. It's normal.
01:00:56.188 --> 01:00:58.169
Yeah, man. What else do you have for this
01:00:58.250 --> 01:01:00.571
age group that covered a lot of it?
01:01:00.911 --> 01:01:02.912
This is a this is an important age group.
01:01:03.253 --> 01:01:07.457
This is where kids really develop values
01:01:07.838 --> 01:01:10.239
and it's like as a parent, as a coach, as
01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:14.703
a friend, this is the time where we can influence
01:01:15.063 --> 01:01:18.386
really good habits and it's also the time
01:01:18.406 --> 01:01:23.109
where it can also go the other way. It's
01:01:23.149 --> 01:01:25.191
a fun age group though. These kids are fun.
01:01:25.271 --> 01:01:27.973
They're energetic. They're moving. They want
01:01:27.993 --> 01:01:30.955
to learn. They learn fast. They start actually
01:01:30.995 --> 01:01:32.785
getting good at the sports. Yeah, they're
01:01:33.507 --> 01:01:37.216
so adaptive to skills. Yeah. Like you take
01:01:37.236 --> 01:01:38.860
a kid in September and then you look at them
01:01:38.900 --> 01:01:39.422
in November.
01:01:40.185 --> 01:01:40.845
Holy shit.
01:01:40.985 --> 01:01:43.006
Yeah. So much. I mean, I'll tell, I'll tell
01:01:43.026 --> 01:01:45.248
you two people like this is the age where
01:01:45.288 --> 01:01:48.349
you can watch kids and it looks like two
01:01:48.449 --> 01:01:51.150
full blown adults doing like their technique,
01:01:51.190 --> 01:01:53.091
their movements are there.
01:01:53.272 --> 01:01:54.012
Yeah. Yeah.
01:01:54.392 --> 01:01:56.253
With, with the right environment, with the
01:01:56.293 --> 01:01:57.814
right team, with the right coaching, um,
01:01:58.934 --> 01:02:00.655
with the amount, right amount of dedication
01:02:00.695 --> 01:02:02.616
and time in the sport. Like they look good.
01:02:02.876 --> 01:02:05.217
Yeah. Similarly. That's cool.
01:02:06.098 --> 01:02:10.167
Well, man, uh, great episode. Anything else
01:02:10.207 --> 01:02:11.008
we want to touch on?
01:02:11.028 --> 01:02:12.810
I think we covered a lot.
01:02:13.110 --> 01:02:15.932
Cool. Well, this is the third episode in
01:02:15.952 --> 01:02:18.834
the series. It's like the teenage-ish years.
01:02:19.815 --> 01:02:21.356
The next one is the last one. We're talking
01:02:21.477 --> 01:02:24.559
about high school and beyond.
01:02:24.579 --> 01:02:24.999
Yeah.
01:02:26.240 --> 01:02:27.962
Whether or how long that takes you beyond
01:02:28.002 --> 01:02:29.703
that. Maybe just forever.
01:02:30.184 --> 01:02:30.344
Yeah.
01:02:30.844 --> 01:02:32.806
Cool. All right, man. Well, thank you so
01:02:32.866 --> 01:02:34.567
much and excited for the next episode.
01:02:34.767 --> 01:02:34.947
Yeah.
01:02:35.108 --> 01:02:35.628
Thank you. Cool.