Crossing the Threshold: How to Trust Yourself When Everything Shifts with Sarah Farina

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Hi, and welcome to Hypothetically Intentional, where we ask the question what if we set intentions with everything we do?
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I'm your host, Michelle Albers, and today I have Sarah Farina joining me.
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Welcome, Sarah.
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Thank you, Michelle.
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It's so good to be here.
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I'm so excited to dive in and get to know you because we've never met, we've never spoken other than for like two minutes before we hit record.
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But before we do that, I would love to set an intention if you're open to that.
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Yes, please.
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I was sitting here as I was starting the Zoom and getting ready, my mic ready, and all that.
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I was like, what's my intention today?
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What's my intention today?
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And I my intention today is to be curious and joyful.
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And I don't, I don't know you, and I don't know if that vibes with your energy, but I don't usually say curious and joyful.
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So I'm really excited to have this conversation.
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Yeah, I love it.
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And actually, those resonate a lot for me.
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So that's really nice.
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That's amazing.
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So before we, I'm really inquisitive, so who knows where we'll go.
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But can you just kind of give us a little bit about like who you are and what you do?
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That's such a vague question, but I would love to know more about like what inspired you to join a podcast and hang out with me today.
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Yeah, thank you.
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I think for me, it's really an interesting thing to take part in these kind of conversations because I'm connecting more and more with people through my writing, actually.
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And so I'm finding that I'm writing on these themes that are quite meaningful to me, but then I realize, oh, actually, people are really, you know, they're feeling it and they're going through their own experiences and versions and perceptions of it.
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And so it's actually really nice to be able to talk about these things.
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So for me, that's sort of part of what I love about this.
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And then the other thing is that as I've been doing um these kind of conversations, I realized too that people all have their own intentions.
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And then to come into that and to learn from that and to be part of that is also really exciting.
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So for me, it's a nice opportunity also to sort of join in what you're doing.
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And as an example, I actually follow the moon.
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So what that means to me is very basic.
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But I look at sort of the moon cycle, and because I have in my career been um, you know, I've been a consultant for a long time and I do a lot of work that's quite strategic, quite precise, quite planned.
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And so I find that following the moon is this really interesting way to relate to that in my own personal life.
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So, for example, at the new moon, I said intentions, and then at the full moon, I uh if you think of the full moon as a manifestation, the full moon is actually now visible, even though it was always there.
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And then I express gratitude at that time and release anything that's not serving.
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And so for me, today being the new moon is actually really nice to be here with this idea of setting intentions, and that's something I do on this day in any case.
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Oh, I love that.
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Yeah, I know.
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It's like sometimes do you ever book things like plan a class or plan a workshop or a speaking event or whatever it is, and then realize, oh, I totally plan that on a new moon, or oh, that's the full moon.
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And I wasn't looking for that, it just happens.
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I just think organically I tend to live with the moons, so to speak.
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So I love that.
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Yeah, and I yeah, because I didn't, I mean, I think you and I didn't particularly plan this date exactly, but the way it's come out, it's uh it it when you started talking about intention and and setting the intention, she's like, I I did that this morning, and so it's this really wonderful kind of coincidence, I suppose, the serendipity.
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Yeah, that's amazing.
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So you said uh I right away my brain went to you said uh consultant.
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Do you mean and uh to me that meant very logical?
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Like, do you mean like corporate consultant or say more?
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Yeah, so that's been most of my career, and so now I am still doing that work, but I'm also transitioning much more into coaching, which I do leadership coaching, so I do work still with sort of people in in fairly senior positions, but I also am starting to do more transformational coaching.
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So look at a real personal trajectory and who you become, right?
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And so a lot of the time that can come from your own personal evolution, but it can also come from things outside of yourself and you know your reality shifts, things happen, and all of a sudden you think, hmm, who am I now in this situation?
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Right.
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And so I've been really exploring that a lot.
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And my writing is also really on those themes.
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And so this is something that's relatively new to me in the sense of doing the work in this area, but I've been sort of grappling with these things for a long time.
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Yeah, and I think, you know, doing the work in this area, I mean, even if it's in corporate or a little more logical or has to be a little more, I don't want to say tucked into a box, but I don't know how else to say it.
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More like there's rules and regulations around it, maybe in a different way.
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Um, but that you can, it sounds to me like you've infused your own, you know, flowing with the moon and setting your intentions and all that, even though that might be a personal thing for you, it still flows into your work.
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I mean, I find it like they don't, they don't really separate, but it's not like you have to articulate everything, I guess.
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Yeah, definitely.
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And I think for me, a lot of my work is in articulating things, right?
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So an organization has a goal.
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Well, what is that goal?
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Okay, they're doing things.
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Well, are those things related to that goal?
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Because, you know, there's a lot of assumptions sometimes around what an organization is doing, and then, you know, because they they hire me externally, right?
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So I come as somebody who doesn't necessarily know the organization, although I might be familiar with the field.
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And so yeah, you're starting to ask questions, and then that's where you realize things.
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So, oh, well, we're doing all these actions, but do they actually lead to that goal that we have set for ourselves?
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And so, in a more sort of formal and technical way, that's what I do in my work.
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But then in my personal life, I'm really opening that up now and exploring what that can mean.
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And it's becoming quite big because I'm realizing, you know, as I give up control over the sort of um, yeah, that kind of decision making where you have all the facts and you, you know, you make your matrix.
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I'm kind of thinking now much bigger picture and thinking, well, what's out there in the universe, you know, what's possible?
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And so that's sort of where I'm at in that sense.
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Yeah.
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So did you find yourself working with le I'm I'm assuming leadership, I guess the way you worded that, I'm thinking like leadership and you know, business structure and mentoring businesses so they can transform, really.
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I mean, that's what it is.
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So, did you find like all of a sudden you were just called to maybe dive in a little more personal?
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Like, I don't want to say lose the business thing, because I don't, I mean, I think that's a beautiful, amazing thing that businesses need.
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And but when you think about it, it's like, well, are we our own business, like internally, you know, and the structure?
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I'm just wondering how much of that do you find it's really not all that different?
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Well, I always treat it as different, if I can say it that way.
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So I I kind of compartmentalized between, okay, this is my personal life, this is my work life, and and you know, those those things were quite separate.
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But then as I started to actually go through more difficulties actually in my personal life, and I started really thinking about these themes, I started to see that actually they are reflected in the things that I'm also doing in my work.
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And and that idea of, you know, who do you think you are?
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And what do you think you're doing?
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And what do you think your reality is?
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And and how, you know, who are you being in that?
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And so those questions have become a little more personal because I was dealing with them personally.
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And then as I've started to take on that role working with people as a coach, I'm also seeing that, right?
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So people can be um in, you know, quite serious roles, but that doesn't mean that they don't have these sort of personal aspects to themselves.
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And so part of uh the work is bringing your best self to your work, right?
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But then part of it is also figuring out what goes beyond work and what's your life and what does it mean and who who are you, who how do you relate to your own life?
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So those are some of the questions that I'm kind of starting to get into.
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That's amazing.
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So do you find yourself I guess I I lost the question.
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I had a download and then it went away.
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So that's always fun.
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But I it had to do with like when you engage with people and they're I feel like the personal stuff, maybe people are a little more I'm gonna say descriptive.
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You know, like it's like personal stuff is way no more personal.
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Well, obviously, just it's in the name.
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But I also just think about like without the the structure or like the hat to hang, I feel like we can hide behind the business structure.
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I guess this is where I'm going with this a little bit, you know what I mean?
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And so then when you if you're shifting from not that you're not doing that anymore, but then when you shift into coaching and transformation and really understanding or getting to know who you are, do you find like it, I guess, harder?
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Or is it was it just flow for you to help people figure that out?
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I mean, that's not that's not a small thing.
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I mean, I do similar work.
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It's like, who are you?
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How do you really shine forward your authentic self?
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And you know, those are kind of buzzwords, but it's like, who are you really?
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Can you introduce you to you and who can help you with that?
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You know?
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Yeah.
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It's very raw.
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I I think it's actually very vulnerable.
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It's not easy.
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And I mean, I say that also because I'm going through it and it really isn't easy, but the more that you get immersed in it, I think the further that you want to go because you start to explore these things and they start to resonate and they mean something and you want to make sense of it.
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So for me, I think it's a natural sort of journey that people will want to go through, but when they're, you know, it's the right time when they're ready, right?
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Like that's not something you do all the time because it's exhausting and it's it's difficult and you're you're delving into these really profound things that you know they they especially if the the as you say the structures have started to kind of break down, then you, you know, your sense of reality can go through a big shift, right?
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And so that's when you start to look at your own self and say, well, you know, what what I what what kind of person am I that I thought that was reality when you know that might not be the case.
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And so, you know, I've I've been exploring, for example, a lot of things like self-trust.
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And, you know, once you've experienced some kind of, you know, really challenging or difficult things, and you start to think, well, what I thought was real might not actually be real.
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And then, well, now how do you trust yourself?
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Because you knew how to do those things in the reality that you were familiar with, right?
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So you had those competencies, you had those skills, you had those things that worked, and that sort of comfort in knowing your environment.
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And then all of a sudden you have to figure out a new way of being.
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And so partly it's that transition to a version of yourself that maybe you didn't even know before.
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Yeah.
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I was reading um your bio, which led me to your website.
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I just did a quick, a quick little scan, and I can't remember the words you use, but it was something about like the in-between.
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You talked about the in-between, and that's kind of your focus, that's your specialty.
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That's kind of where you like to do the work, so to speak, or focus on the work.
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I love, I love that because I think that's the messiest part.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And it's the part we don't like, right?
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Right.
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That's what I mean.
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Because we don't know what's next.
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If we knew it was next, we would just do that.
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And so I think, you know, you for me anyway, the people that I'm working with in this, and and you know, the things that I've gone through too, you don't really know.
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The the footing is is quite uh unstable.
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And so you're you're sort of uncertain, you don't have all the information, you maybe don't even know sort of who you are anymore, you're questioning that.
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There are just so many things about it.
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And so that's one of the things actually that I've I've been writing about.
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So this idea of um the what I've I've been kind of thinking of it is is this sort of crush crossing of a threshold, right?
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So you're at the edge of something, you know something is kind of not either working or not there anymore, or whatever it is, you don't know what's next, you're you're sort of in this in-between space.
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And then you either sort of try to turn back, which I think many of us do, and I've certainly tried, you know, at times, and you just want that comfort, right?
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The things you know.
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Um, and then there's that point where either you can sort of find a way to sort of restabilize and you know sort of stay, I guess, in that place that you know.
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Um, and then there's the part where you make a decision, you know, in in movies, the they call it the point of no return, right?
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Like the apocalypse has now happened, you know, like your home, you go to find it, and it's just a pile of rubble.
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So you can't go back, right?
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So that idea of then there's this initiation process.
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And so you now don't get to sort of choose to go back anymore.
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You have to choose, you know, how you're gonna survive in this new environment, essentially.
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Yeah, and you're almost well, I don't want to say force because I actually don't think you can force it, but I mean, the choice to figure out how to trust yourself is such a huge one.
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I love that you brought up self-trust because I just think that is such a big, huge part of taking that step out of that messy middle or the in-between or whatever you want to call it.
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It's like the ground is already shaky and unstable.
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And if you can find even a drop, I feel like of self-trust to be able to take that step, it can be so powerful.
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I'm curious about a couple things.
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I love that you brought up your writing because that's what uh that was a question that was percolating is you know, will you say more about your writing?
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And I think I saw you have a substack.
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Um like say more about your writing and and do you write like long-form content, short-term short content, or um, and then is it is the writing itself more like stories about your life, or is it more like I don't want to say self-help, but like, you know what I mean, external, like helping other people?
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How do you how do you deliver?
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Because I haven't dug into your articles yet, but I will.
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Yeah, so I I actually sort of fluctuate between speaking to you in a very generic sense, and then speaking as myself, but and and sometimes even a we.
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And the idea really is not necessarily telling a specific story, but I'm exploring themes and the process that I've been through, the process that I've seen people go through.
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And really it's inviting a lot of reflection about the theme.
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And so that's where you know, people kind of relate to it because they have some experience that might be a totally different experience than mine, but they've had that, you know, whatever that emotional thing happen, there's some resonance there.
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And then they they will kind of start to share their own stories through that.
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So um it's pretty short form, I'd say.
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Uh, and then I'm also uh working on some books.
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So I actually have contributed a chapter to a book called The Way of the Initiate.
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So that's coming out next week, which is really exciting.
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Congratulations.
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Yeah, thank you.
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And um, then I also have written a memoir, which I'm just sorting out publishing right now, but um, it's about a journey on the Camino de Santiago, and so that also was for me a transformative journey.
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So really thinking about, well, what was my own process in that, you know?
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And so those are longer pieces, but so I'm yeah, so I'm sort of doing different things in my writing, but really it's about exploring a lot of those themes, you know, transformation, um, you know, what happens when your life collapses, you know, what all these, all these kinds of things.
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And then I also I feel for myself that one of the things that helps me to process it all is to express my own creativity.
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So I also do workshops and stuff for, you know, it's it's there's sort of writing workshops in the sense that people write, but the idea of the prompts is really just to think about something that you want to reflect on, and and people come up with absolutely beautiful stuff.
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So that's amazing.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I don't know what it is about creativity.
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I didn't used to put a lot of um thought or even like validity to it.
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And the more I do the work and the more I work with people, and the more I realize like creativity is so the language of the soul.
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I mean, it's just like I don't know, it takes us to places that we don't really otherwise access.
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And I just find that so beautiful.
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I love that so much.
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I'm curious about the Camino.
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Yes.
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I'm curious about like, was it something you always wanted to do, or was there sort of a life event where you're like, I need to go do this, and this is like a whole I don't want to label it for you, but like what's coming in is like a spiritual, you know, experience where I get to go do my own healing.
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And I don't know, I'm just curious.
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Will you say more?
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I don't want to I don't want to pry and like get into things that are too personal, but I'm also really curious about like, because so many people recently, I don't know what it is about the Camino, but I've heard a lot about it and experiences, and I'm just always so curious because it feels like it's such a sacred thing.
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Yeah, I really feel it is, and I have a few people in my life who've either done it or sort of before me and told me about it, or people who have done it since, and I've sort of shared the journey in the sense that I'm interested and kind of follow along.
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And so I think the Camino is something for me that I had just always wanted to do.
00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:40.720
I don't know, somebody asked me recently, and I actually can't remember the first time I heard about it, but it was one of those things I had in the back of my mind for many years, and I sort of thought, well, you know, one day in the distant future, I would do it.
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:52.079
But the reason I did it at the time that I did, I actually was because I used to be quite sort of adventurous and I traveled a lot and and I did lots of sort of hiking and trekking and all that kind of thing.
00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:55.920
And then I was experiencing some really serious physical limitations.
00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:58.319
So I was at a point where I actually could barely walk anymore.
00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:04.799
I was walking with a cane, I had kind of reduced all of my activities and I was not in a good place to say the least.
00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:08.480
And so the I basically I had an injection.
00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:14.880
It didn't particularly make me walk very well, but it took the edge off and I just booked the trip.
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:26.960
For some reason, I thought, you know what, it's not when I wanted to do it, it's not anything, but I if I can do it, I must do it because I just didn't know if I'd ever have a chance again to be able to even attempt it.
00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:28.559
So I booked it.
00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:36.400
I uh when I went, I actually got a trader because I mean I literally could barely walk, and so she was working mostly on my what she calls stabilizer muscles.
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:40.480
So, you know, if my name doesn't work, what muscles around it could be there.
00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:50.240
And um, you know, even that she sort of said, Oh, well, Spain's really beautiful and you know, it has nice beaches, so don't worry about it if it doesn't work out.
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:52.640
You'll you'll find something, yeah.
00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:57.200
And I think most people were sort of thinking along those lines, like it's not gonna work out.
00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:10.079
But I went and I started it, and it was um, I had it's a long story why I picked this one, but I did a route called the Via de la Plata, and so it actually starts in the south of Spain, so it's very uncommon.
00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:19.599
Most people do not do this route, and so it's quite also quiet, and you know, you spend the whole day by yourself in nature, it's really a special experience.
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:34.240
And there was something about being on that path because it is a spiritual path and it has been for thousands of years, so there's something about that that really called to me, and that you can feel it, you know, you know there is, as you say, an intention there, it's not just like a hiking trail.
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:37.599
There, there's a reason people are there, and you can feel that.
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:40.160
And so that was a big part of the experience.
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:45.039
And then basically, day to day, like I every day wasn't sure I was gonna make it any further.
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:46.720
And I I just kept going.
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:52.160
And in the end, it was just over a thousand kilometers, and I mean it was brutal.
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:59.279
It was actually not at all fun because I just physically was in agony the whole time, but I needed to do it, I wanted to do it.
00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:02.319
I like every moment that I was there, I was grateful to be there.
00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:08.799
So it's a little bit different than a lot of people's experiences who kind of you know walked it normally.
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:14.799
I kind of dragged myself along it more than anything, but it it really changed my life.
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:16.400
That's amazing.
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:25.599
I don't know, when you said, you know, it's not the normal path and you get to hang out with yourself is kind of what I heard.
00:20:25.759 --> 00:20:34.000
I don't know, there's so many key things that you said in there that sound and feel so much like at least my experience and the people that I work with, the healing journey.
00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:40.880
It was even even you talking about your, I think you said your knee and how she's working out stabilizers her muscles.
00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:43.440
Like if this doesn't work, let's find what will support you.
00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:46.000
It's like, isn't that healing journey in a nutshell?
00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:48.799
If this isn't working, what can you find to support you?
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.400
And it might be unexpected, something unknown that you've never felt before.
00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:53.200
You know what I mean?
00:20:53.359 --> 00:21:00.000
It's just like it's so such a great visual visual representation of transformation in the work.
00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:03.279
It's unexpected and challenging and hard.
00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:07.680
And sometimes you gotta be alone with yourself on a path that you've never done before, you know?
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:08.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:09.839
So amazing.
00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:11.920
That's awesome.
00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:17.359
Um, I'm curious about you still do corporate.
00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:27.920
Yeah, I mean, it's less corporate in the sense that it's not necessarily companies, it's mostly government organizations, crown corporations, um, nonprofits, that kind of thing.
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:31.039
But the idea being that it's it's their sort of strategic work.
00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:31.680
Yeah.
00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:37.519
And then you're moving into, are you like, are you moving away from or are you planning to kind of continue to do both?
00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:51.200
Yeah, I'm continuing to do that work, but I'm just finding I I didn't expect to become a coach, but I I sort of thought, oh, I'll uh because originally my idea was because I was in all of these leadership roles of increasing responsibility, and I was thinking, oh, you know what?
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:54.079
I technically know how to do this, but it's actually hard.
00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:57.920
And so I had tried to find a coach and I couldn't really find a good fit.
00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.440
And so I my idea was.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:06.400
You know, when I'm done all of this, I will sort of get it some kind of a coaching certification just to be able to help people out.
00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:13.039
Um, and then as I did it and went through it myself, I uh I just was I just completely fell in love with it, which I didn't expect.
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:22.400
So I added it as a service kind of unexpectedly, but I'm really enjoying it and I'm finding it rewarding and I'm yeah, I'm getting a lot out of it.
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:23.599
That's amazing.
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:25.359
Will you break down a little bit?
00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:31.039
And maybe maybe this isn't a fair question, but like how do you work with people within their?
00:22:31.440 --> 00:22:46.079
I don't mean like I need every single step or anything like that, or but like as a as a whole, like if you were to describe how you work with people when they're in there in that in between, how do you how do you like what what called you there?
00:22:46.240 --> 00:22:49.599
Because it seems like that's kind of I don't know.
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:53.279
Yeah, it's a familiar place, I can put it that way.
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:57.119
Um I think, yeah, I mean, I think part of it is because I care about it.
00:22:57.200 --> 00:23:01.440
I I think it's uh a hard place to be, but it's an important place to be.
00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:07.200
And um, this is actually something I just wrote about, but and I uh quite a lot of people commented and sent me messages about it.
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:13.279
But the idea of finding yourself in this place where, you know, often not by choice, right?
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:21.279
Things kind of collapsed around you, things happened that you didn't choose, and you're looking around and everything just feels broken.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:31.599
And so you don't know what's next, but you also well, we talked about that idea of things being unstable, but you yeah, you just you just don't know where to go from there.
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:37.279
And so I think most of us, I mean, myself included, you just want to not be there.
00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:38.720
Yeah, but you can't go back.
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:42.160
And anyway, there's there's this sort of point where you realize you're a bit stuck.
00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:54.000
And so what I've realized, and and I wrote about this, and a lot of people commented about this, and this is my experience also in working with people, is that that stage is not like uh, oh, I just crossed from here to there.
00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:55.759
You know, this can last for years.
00:23:55.920 --> 00:24:00.559
Like people go through incredibly long periods of time in this place.
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:02.240
And so, what is that place?
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:09.039
And so I for me, working with people is acknowledging, I mean, you could be in a lot of different sort of stages of of that experience, right?
00:24:09.119 --> 00:24:15.519
So you can be in that kind of stage of disbelief where you're looking around going, what happened to my reality?
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:20.640
You know, then you can be in this sort of picking around to see what's left kind of stage.
00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:24.319
You can be in the, hmm, okay, uh, this is not great.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:28.640
So I'm gonna need to move on and you know, starting to just look up, right?
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:29.839
You don't even know what's out there.
00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:37.359
And then there's the part where you're sort of thinking, okay, well, I'd like to do something else now, and what could that be, and starting to work towards that.
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:52.720
So there are just a lot of different phases of that experience that I think for me, working with people is figuring out where you're at and then honoring where you're at, you know, because just because you don't like something doesn't mean that you can just wake up tomorrow and like start your new journey, right?
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:53.920
Because you don't know.
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:58.880
And so it's kind of figuring out how to go through that process and you know, as best you can, right?
00:24:59.359 --> 00:24:59.680
Yeah.
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:02.880
Do you work with people one-to-one or do you do group or both?
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:05.599
Uh no, I've been doing just one-to-one.
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:09.839
I feel like group is good for certain things.
00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:18.640
So I I sort of host group experiences like these sort of reflective prompts with like a say a writing workshop or something, and I find that that sharing is really meaningful.
00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:24.880
But I haven't done group coaching just in the sense that some of this stuff is um, you know, people are different places.
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:31.119
And it's not to say I wouldn't ever do it, but at this point it's sort of quite customized, right?
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:34.720
Because people have their own place in the journey, their own experience of it.
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:40.319
And also, you know, one day you have this thing that you want to talk about, and the next time it's something totally different, right?
00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:40.720
Right.
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:44.799
So it's there's no, there's no sort of straight line, I guess.
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:45.279
Yeah.
00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:46.960
Yeah, it's so deeply personal.
00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:51.440
I love that you have the other experiences, like the writing experiences.
00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:57.680
Um, because I think there's something about like there's a safety in the vessel that's one-to-one, right?
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:10.720
It's like you just feel maybe not everyone, but often like I'll feel more able to speak a deeper truth or a deeper to pull something forward that I wouldn't necessarily share in a group.
00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:21.279
But then I find when I'm in group things or even hosting group things, there's something about like understanding that A, we're not all that different.
00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:27.599
Like even our situation that gives us this emotion or this pain or this challenge might be completely different.
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:31.759
But like that pain, that emotion or those challenges are not all that different.
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:38.079
And but then to be in a room with people who are like, oh my gosh, I totally understand what you're feeling, or I totally understand what you're saying.
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:44.720
And I imagine in those writing experiences that you have, do you find that or do people do you not talk about it that much?
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:45.519
It depends.
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:54.160
I mean, some people don't want to share, but when they do, it's really powerful because it can be very validating for people to hear that other people are going through something similar.
00:26:54.319 --> 00:27:03.039
Um, and then also I think a lot of people surprise themselves because most of the time the workshops that I'm doing, I mean, people some people identify as writers, but a lot of people don't.
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:10.880
So they'll say things like, I'm not a writer, or I don't know how to write, and then they'll write something that's just stunning because it's from their heart.
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:16.319
You know, it's not about creating some sort of written document, it's about expressing yourself.
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:20.799
And and when people can kind of get into that place, it's actually pretty powerful.
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:24.880
So even this stuff that they come up with will inspire others sometimes.
00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:26.559
Yeah, that's amazing.
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:51.279
I think there's something about, I mean, what I'm hearing from you is that whether it's one-to-one or a group writing experience or even all of your work, I'm hearing that like the I don't I don't know that I love saying it this way, but like the safety or like the the way that the space is held, it really does allow for people to express who they are in that exact moment.
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:56.799
But then also, I this is I don't know why I'm saying it this way while I do, it's divine.
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:30.400
Um like express who they are in that moment, but through that expression, almost like that is like the spark that is the catalyst for the change to like get out of that, to take that step, to be like to be that brave, to there's something about doing the work in a space where it's I guess free, you know, and it's like the judgment isn't there, the the like how you're met is different than how it normally feels in your day-to-day.
00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:38.880
I just think that's why it's so valuable to have people in your life, coaches, mentors, friends, you know, acquaintances.
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:45.839
I think sometimes it's important for it not to be somebody you know super well, you know, for those checks and balances.
00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:48.960
Yeah, but that doesn't mean that you can't get to know them well, you know.
00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:56.640
I think it's inevitably if you're doing this kind of work in a group or one-to-one, how can you not get to know each other well if you're truly sharing?
00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:02.079
So I just think that's such a like a beautiful process of healing.
00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:04.880
And to have spaces like that is such an important thing.
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:18.000
It's one of the reasons I love having these conversations, because it's like I believe there's like we don't all match with everyone, you know, but there's someone out there for everyone, or someone's out there for everyone.
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:23.119
And so to just like, I've learned about new modalities and just different ways of coaching and being and showing up.
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:32.640
And it's like if it helps a listener to hear someone's like unique, because we're all unique in how we show up and how we do things, to connect with someone that might help them on their journey.
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:35.039
I just think that's such a beautiful thing.
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:36.559
Yeah, it really is.
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:43.680
And even in my consulting work, I do a lot of facilitation and I'll often get called because there's some kind of pretty terrible problem.
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:55.839
So, for example, I had a client that called and they said, you know, at the last meeting of this group, uh, everybody just agreed that they didn't want to ever meet again because they don't like each other.
00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:00.559
And, you know, because they're all from different organizations, different perspectives, different everything, different pressures.
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:05.599
And so for me to go into the next meeting knowing that, you know, that's not easy.
00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:09.759
But so then you have to think, well, this is not a technical question, right?
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:15.359
This is a question about who who are these people as people and and what's their motivation for being there?
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:21.119
Because most of them actually are there because they're wanting to help, they're wanting to contribute, they're wanting to do something meaningful.
00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:24.480
But how do we open a space where they can actually have that conversation?
00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:32.000
So even just in in the more sort of consulting side of my work, that's a question that I've always got in my mind, right?
00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:38.319
How can you create that space where people feel free to express themselves and they actually can relate to one another?
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:52.400
And then when you go into a space, for example, in what I'm starting to do in the coaching world, that's even more exciting because people actually want to be there and they want to ask these questions and they want to explore these things and and they are curious to hear from each other.
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:55.200
Yeah, that's awesome.
00:30:55.680 --> 00:31:02.079
Um yeah, I just I love how it's fascinating to me how it can be so similar.
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:27.359
You know, you have people in a room who don't want to be together, and yet you can find a common ground, and that is they all want to help, you know, and then you can find people who want to be in a room together, but maybe internally don't feel all that capable, or you know, maybe they don't have the capacity that day, but they also want to help, but they also want help.
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:32.480
But asking for help sometimes can be so hard for people, self-included, you know?
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:33.759
Yeah, yeah, same.
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:36.240
I mean, we're we're all those people, right?
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:36.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:40.640
We all we've all been through this and we're all going through it.
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:45.440
And yeah, I think, for example, with the creativity, the interesting thing is how much people judge themselves.
00:31:45.680 --> 00:31:45.920
Yeah.
00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:50.319
And you know, they say, I'm not this, I'm not that, I'm not creative.
00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:54.480
And then of course, if you give them a minute, they they come up with all kinds of things.
00:31:54.640 --> 00:31:59.680
But I think there are just certain areas of life where people have kind of held themselves back.
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:10.160
And so, in a way, just sort of facilitating some kind of process where they can actually feel free in that moment and and explore that within themselves.
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:11.359
Yeah.
00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:13.119
That's life-changing.
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:14.240
Yeah.
00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:15.039
Yeah.
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:17.039
Have you had it?
00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:18.000
Yeah.
00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:20.160
Have you had those experiences in similar ways?
00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:27.200
And is that what inspired you to create that group or or like what inspired you to do that?
00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:35.039
Well, so originally with the um the workshops that I've been doing, I started because I have been it for many years in writing groups.
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:38.000
So I've been just kind of going to these groups and learning to write.
00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:45.839
Originally, I because I traveled a lot um in the sort of earlier part of my career, and uh people always said, Oh, you should write about your travels.
00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:50.079
And I started to, and then I thought, I have no idea how to do this.
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:59.359
You know, I can write a very long technical report with lots of barefours and however's and all the rest, but I, you know, I don't know how to have a dialogue.
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:04.000
I don't know how to move in time, I don't know how to have a memory, I don't know how to have a theme.
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:06.880
Like all of those kinds of things were really hard for me.
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:10.480
And so my writing groups that I was part of, I was really working on that.
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:15.039
And I I would have, you know, sometimes people in my groups who were, you know, working on a novel or this or that.
00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:20.400
And I would feel very kind of sad that I had like I just I was writing these little vignettes and these little stories.
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.000
And I thought, why don't I have a project?
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:27.119
But I had no, I mean, there's no way I could have done anything like that because I just didn't have that capacity.
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:41.599
But um, as I've kind of gone along in the years, my writing groups have shifted because you know, what my very beloved group that I had for a long time, people's lives sort of went through a lot of changes and and we ended up no longer meeting, but I missed them a lot.
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:48.400
And so I actually started putting together these writing prompts because that was one of the things that I used to do is to organize these writing retreats.
00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:50.559
And so I would just put prompts on Instagram.
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:51.680
That's just how it started.
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:52.480
Oh, that's cool.
00:33:52.720 --> 00:34:02.400
And then we have a thing uh called BC Culture Days, which is where different organizations and individuals they offer any kind of a cultural event uh for free in the fall.
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:08.639
And so I started doing that a few years back and have just continued because I really enjoy it and it was just so much fun to meet the people.
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:10.639
And so I've been doing that now.
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:12.320
This will be my third year.
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:14.079
So I have one coming up in October.
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:14.880
They're just online.
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:18.400
I I've done some in person, but this year I'm just gonna do one online.
00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:24.800
But it's just fun, you know, and and I use nature-based prompts, so they're something that most people can relate to.
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:31.039
And yeah, so I think it's it's part of my own just desire to be part of this process.
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:32.079
Yeah.
00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:34.800
So is that event in October open to the public?
00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:35.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:37.039
Anybody can join.
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:40.239
Uh, you can go to well, my website has a link.
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:40.480
Okay.
00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:44.559
Uh, but then also uh on Eventbrite, you can just register for free.
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:46.239
It's called Word Garden.
00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:48.000
And um, yeah, it's fun.
00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:52.719
I I I mean, I would if people think this sounds fun, it I think it would be fun for them.
00:34:52.960 --> 00:34:53.760
That's amazing.
00:34:53.920 --> 00:35:01.920
Yeah, I'll I just want to make sure it would be in a link or that we set it on the mic so that people who are interested can get to it and find it and sign up if it's open to the public.
00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:03.920
But I was like, wait, is this open to the public?
00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:04.880
Can we share this?
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:06.559
Yeah, can we talk about it?
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:08.000
That's awesome.
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:09.280
Oh, it's so good.
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:24.559
So, do you think um like do you feel like your journey and doing both of these things together feels um I don't even know what the question is because uh it's not the question isn't does it feel aligned?
00:35:24.639 --> 00:35:27.920
Because I think it 100% feels aligned, otherwise you wouldn't be doing it.
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:32.400
Um, but for me, it's feeling profound, and I don't even necessarily know why.
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:33.280
Like we just met.
00:35:33.440 --> 00:35:34.159
You know what I mean?
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:38.400
But I just feel like the two, I don't know, they feel like they complement each other so well.
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:47.840
And the skills that you've built doing the one thing and like have been doing for a long period of time have led into the new thing.
00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:51.679
And I just think like that is also the growth journey.
00:35:51.760 --> 00:36:05.840
It's like you we all have these underlying skills that we've had our whole life and that we maybe don't even notice or recognize because they're just ours and they feel comfortable and we don't see them because they're not unique to us, they're just who we are, you know.
00:36:05.920 --> 00:36:11.760
But they don't feel like they don't feel special, I guess is what I'll say necessarily, because we haven't noticed them yet.
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:18.159
But then you get going on the journey and it's like, oh, these are like I have mastery.
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:19.679
I the word mastery is coming in.
00:36:19.760 --> 00:36:24.400
Like, I have mastery over this, I know how to do this, but then why is everything else so dang complicated?
00:36:24.800 --> 00:36:27.119
You know, like why isn't this enough, so to speak?
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:39.360
I think everybody kind of hits a point in their journey at some point where they're like, why isn't what I have currently enough to get me through or going with this particular journey that is a challenge right now?
00:36:39.599 --> 00:37:03.280
And I think to have bring in different unique skills from even different places can be really lovely when you're meeting with people who are on that journey because I don't know, I just feel like there's more skills and more language and more ways to communicate with them that might hit a seed that then awakens, so to speak, or gets nurtured in a way where it's like, oh, I'm ready to look at you now.
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:04.480
Let's do this thing.
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:06.239
Do you find that happens a lot?
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:09.679
Like you pull, I don't know, like I used to have everything I do separate.
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:20.239
Like I did tie massage and I did Reiki and I did Zentangle and I did yoga and I did like I did, you know, all these different things, but it felt very parceled out and it was exhausting.
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:25.440
And then it was like, oh, but I could just do here's my toolkit.
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:26.639
This is Michelle.
00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:28.000
Yeah, this is it.
00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:30.400
This is uh choose yourself, is what it's evolved into.
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:39.599
It's like this is choose yourself, and it's all the things tarot, Reiki, you know, tie tie, not so much Thai massage anymore, but my body says no more to that.
00:37:39.760 --> 00:37:50.800
But yeah, I just think that's really cool how it can how things evolve and how we evolve, and how that can then help us help other people do that exact same thing within themselves.
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:55.039
Yeah, yeah, because I was absolutely completely compartmentalized before.
00:37:55.199 --> 00:38:05.039
I had everything as completely separate and they all made sense in my head, and they made sense because I like them, but they were not related to one another, and they felt like they're all in different worlds.
00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:11.280
And then I actually was working with a coach myself over the past year, and my goal was integration.
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:16.559
I have all these different things, I want to be able to kind of find a way to put them together.
00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:18.639
And to be honest, in the beginning, I didn't see it.
00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:25.840
I was like, well, there's this, and then on the other side, entirely differently, there's that, and then oh, there's this other thing that's also way over there.
00:38:26.079 --> 00:38:31.119
And so I actually didn't see them together, and then how did they come?
00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:38.800
I don't know, but somehow they just started converging, and then there was a certain point where it all started to make sense, and so hey, there you go.
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:45.599
Maybe I had that intention, yeah, no, and I just didn't know how it would come out and and what form it would take.
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:55.920
But yeah, I think maybe that is what happened because I had that intention to seek integration, but I wasn't there, and then things just converged, and then it's starting to make sense.
00:38:56.159 --> 00:38:57.920
I mean, I'm still working on it, right?
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:00.400
I'm still figuring out how these things relate.
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:07.599
But yeah, definitely they've come together and it's in a way that makes sense, which it didn't before.
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:17.599
Yeah, and I think there's something about, I don't know, like when you were speaking about that, about how like, you know, them coming together was a little, I don't know, what I heard was awkward at first, you know?
00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:17.920
Yeah.
00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:24.639
But I think when I think about my journey too, it was like, well, I had these things that I had been doing for a really long time that I was really comfortable with.
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:33.360
And I would, I just like I knew my skill set, I stayed in my lane, you know, I I was constantly in that learning and evolving, like I wasn't stagnant.
00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:40.480
But then I had these new things that also felt aligned, but they didn't, I didn't feel as comfortable with them yet.
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:46.719
And so it felt weird to pull them in and call them mine because I maybe hadn't even made them mine yet, you know?
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:58.880
And so it was like there was a that is a weird transition period where it's like, ugh, I don't know exactly what the I mean, I know it's something, and I know I'm not like I mean, I know I'm doing me, right?
00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:10.960
Like it's making sense, but also there's like this part over here that feels really comfortable and confidence is there, and then there's these other things that feel new and maybe a little unsteady, but they don't feel wrong.
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:20.639
But they also don't feel like I have the confidence to, I don't know, it's that self-doubt creeps in and the self-worth creeps in, and you're just like, I'm not sure about this.
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:31.679
And then I think it's time and reps and like giving yourself the chance to show up and do it, where then there is an integration that happens, and and all of a sudden it's well, it's not even all of a sudden, it's a process.
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:35.920
But I mean it's like it appears to be all of a sudden after a very long time.
00:40:36.239 --> 00:40:37.039
Yes, exactly.
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.880
But then you turn around and you're like, oh wait, hey, like this is different.
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:41.440
It happened.
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:43.199
Like, when when did that happen?
00:40:44.000 --> 00:40:46.239
It can be surprising sometimes.
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:47.199
Yeah, yeah.
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:49.039
Yeah, and I mean I'm delighted, right?
00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:53.199
Like this is what I was hoping for, but I I didn't quite know how it was gonna happen.
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:59.039
I but yeah, the more that I actually reflect on it with you right now, I'm thinking that intention made a big difference.
00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:00.000
Yeah.
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:03.440
I think intention to me it feels oh, I got the goosebumps.
00:41:03.679 --> 00:41:08.079
Uh like what you just said is like oh I've intention to me feels like it's door opening, right?
00:41:08.239 --> 00:41:10.320
And it's like there aren't doors, there aren't walls anymore.
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:16.400
It's just this, it's just an open playing field, and we get to discover and uncover like wherever it goes.
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:19.119
Yeah, just to be creative.
00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:20.239
Yeah.
00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:21.679
Do you feel well?
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:26.000
It sounds like you feel like you've been in integration mode for at least a hot second now.
00:41:26.079 --> 00:41:29.119
So does it do you are you this is such a weird question.
00:41:29.280 --> 00:41:33.599
Like, but are you excited to like see what the next integration is gonna be?
00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:35.199
Like, I'm not saying don't be present.
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:37.920
I'm not saying get too farward thinking and get anxiety about it.
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:55.440
I don't mean any of that, but it just feels so I don't know, like it's in motion and it's exciting and and it it there is something about when it gets started, almost like that momentum, it does sometimes transform quickly after, you know, it's like once you kind of get over that lull and it's like, oh god, that took a long time.
00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:59.519
But then all of a sudden it's like, oh, this is happening kind of quickly.
00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:01.440
Where what where are we going now?
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:02.559
Yeah, it does.
00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:07.920
And it's funny because I was just talking to a friend about this, because I was saying, Oh, I'm really excited, you know, this book is coming out.
00:42:08.079 --> 00:42:12.079
And then she said, Oh, well, it's a good thing you've been doing it for so many years.
00:42:13.280 --> 00:42:14.800
And I thought, yeah, she's right.
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:20.880
Because she she and I were in a writing group together years ago and just thinking about, yeah, like it didn't just come about in a minute, right?
00:42:21.039 --> 00:42:30.639
It it's it's been a while and it's been a process and it's been a lot of learning and growing, and I feel like it's coming together in a good way.
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:36.239
But I so I I feel excited, but I definitely can see there there's a long path to get here, right?
00:42:36.559 --> 00:42:37.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:43.679
And do you find now that you now that you kind of have landed here, I'll say, I don't mean like, you know, stuck.
00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:46.400
I just mean like you've kind of come to a place where it's it makes sense.
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:46.639
Yeah.
00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:48.000
Oh, this I get this.
00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:56.639
Do you find that it's easier to trust yourself in those moments when maybe the ground underneath you is a little more stable?
00:42:56.880 --> 00:43:04.880
Or do you feel like you that's a skill that you've really developed and like it doesn't I don't know, is it possible to be unshakeable completely?
00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:05.840
Maybe.
00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:25.360
Yeah, I mean, I don't know the answer to that one, but I will say I I I've had a very challenging couple of years, and so I feel like part of the lesson was to really push me and to say, you know, if you're gonna get through this, you need to figure yourself out, and it's not based on getting the outcome that you want, you know.
00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:31.360
And so it's about like who can you be with what's going on.
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:39.039
And so that I think is a huge learning, and it's a huge place for spiritual growth.
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:43.599
And I'll tell you it's not fun and it's not desirable, and you would never want it.
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:49.679
But on the other side of it, you find yourself with a lot more strength and a lot more perspective.
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:56.320
Um, and I wouldn't say unshakable by any stretch, but certainly uh you become more grounded in yourself.
00:43:56.639 --> 00:43:57.039
Yeah.
00:43:58.000 --> 00:43:58.320
Yeah.
00:43:58.639 --> 00:43:59.760
I think to have an expectation.
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:04.719
Of being unshakable at all times is probably a pretty impossible expectation.
00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:18.480
But I do think there's something about landing in a place where even if it's uncomfortable and maybe really unknown, and you are definitely going to need outside resources, like you know you'll figure it out.
00:44:18.639 --> 00:44:23.920
You know, I think like the day that I realized, oh, I just had a really hard thing.
00:44:24.159 --> 00:44:26.639
And I literally said to myself, I'll figure it out.
00:44:26.719 --> 00:44:29.199
Like no matter what, I'll figure out a way to figure it out.
00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:39.920
It's not gonna look like you said, it's not gonna look the way I want it to necessarily, or probably, you know, but but I will find a way to figure it out and I will find a way to be okay, you know.
00:44:40.000 --> 00:44:46.880
And I think there's something about I wouldn't say that's unshakable because it feels very shakeable.
00:44:47.760 --> 00:45:03.519
But but if there is something about like having that knowing or that trust with yourself of, all right, this is really uncomfortable, and I'm not really sure what's next, but I can I can promise myself that I'll figure it out.
00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:13.599
Yeah, and and you mentioned this earlier, but I think that idea of asking for help, because I was pretty much a person who would never ask for help, you know, ever for any reason.
00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:24.000
And so to actually be in a situation where like I was so not okay, I needed help, and I had to ask, you know, that is a very humbling thing to go through when you're sort of the person, like I think I help other people, right?
00:45:24.079 --> 00:45:29.760
Like I'm always like, oh yeah, of course, I'll do and so that I think is a huge lesson.
00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:35.519
And you I mean, that's you know, you're you're struggling with your own sense of identity there.
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:50.480
Um, and then to be able to say, I need help, I think is actually like it made me feel in a way more powerful, not because I was doing something, but because I was connecting to greater energy, right?
00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:57.840
So I'm saying that within myself, I'm struggling right now, but I can connect to these other things.
00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:02.880
There's higher wisdom, there are other people, there are other energies that can support me.
00:46:03.039 --> 00:46:09.039
So I think that actually was huge for me because I did not like that, but it was a big deal to get to that place.
00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:17.199
And then the other thing, I I wrote about this the other day as sort of becoming like an amoeba, but the idea being that in my judgment, I'm not so absolute.
00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:19.119
Like I kind of inch towards something.
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:20.480
If it feels good, I carry on.
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:22.880
If it doesn't feel good, I go backwards, you know.
00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:30.719
Cause before I sort of wanted to have all the information and sort of make these very formal decisions, and you know, that's that's gone.
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:33.360
Like that's not my idea anymore.
00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:41.119
And and now I have this idea of being much more tentative, but that does give you a certain confidence because now you know you're listening to yourself.
00:46:41.360 --> 00:46:42.000
Yeah.
00:46:42.639 --> 00:46:43.039
Yeah.
00:46:43.280 --> 00:46:46.639
I think this is such an important thing to talk about, asking for help.
00:46:46.800 --> 00:46:50.320
I just think it is really vulnerable.
00:46:50.480 --> 00:46:50.639
Yeah.
00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:55.199
I mean, maybe it, maybe not for everyone, but my experience is it's incredibly vulnerable.
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:59.840
And um, I just think I don't know your experience.
00:46:59.920 --> 00:47:00.880
I would be curious to hear it.
00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:10.000
But like for me, when I do get to that place where I have the courage and also maybe just the requirement to ask for help, I learned so much.
00:47:10.159 --> 00:47:20.480
There's something about asking for help, like there's a pause afterwards where I get into this place of observation and I'm like, oh, that's an interesting feeling.
00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:24.320
Or like, you know, one moment it's that wasn't as bad as I thought.
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:28.719
And then, you know, two hours later, it's like, well, I'm devastated and that was horrific.
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:32.239
And, you know, and like the roller coaster that comes with that.
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:46.559
But if I don't know, I've just found that I could I've I've learned how maybe over time there's something about really getting vulnerable and having the courage to ask for help where there isn't a moment of like, wow, I'm so proud of myself, I did it, and why is that so hard for me?
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:48.480
You know, then I get inquisitive about it.
00:47:48.639 --> 00:47:49.039
Yeah.
00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:49.760
I don't know.
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:52.159
Do you find you learn a lot when you ask for help?
00:47:52.400 --> 00:47:58.719
I do, and I learned a lot about myself because I think that fear of being vulnerable is because you want to project a certain image, right?
00:47:58.800 --> 00:47:59.760
And nobody's perfect.
00:47:59.920 --> 00:48:11.280
And so I don't think anybody thought I was, and I didn't think I was, but I there's some part of me that kind of doesn't like to show that side that's just really not okay, you know?
00:48:11.440 --> 00:48:13.119
And and so it was vulnerable.
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:26.239
And but I I had a friend actually who pointed out, and this is sort of a different perspective, but she said, you know, if you don't ask for help, you're depriving people who care about you the opportunity to do something they would like to do that would make them feel good.
00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:27.039
Yeah.
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:32.480
And that was interesting too, because of course I know that because I would help anybody if they needed it, right?
00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:34.320
And I would feel good about it.
00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:34.880
Yeah.
00:48:35.119 --> 00:48:39.119
So why why would I have these people who actually care about me and want to help?
00:48:39.199 --> 00:48:44.960
Why would I be sort of holding them back and saying, no, no, just watch me drown here, you know?
00:48:45.199 --> 00:48:45.840
Yeah.
00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:46.400
Yeah.
00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:53.760
My my asking for help challenges come from a lot of different layers that I've I've figured out and and seen, and that would be a whole nother podcast.
00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:54.079
Yeah.
00:48:54.239 --> 00:49:00.719
There's a lot of there's everything you said, and there's some other pieces for me for me too that I find fascinating.
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:01.920
But that's what I mean.
00:49:02.000 --> 00:49:10.719
It's like when you do those vulnerable things, when you take that unsettled moment and sit with it, it it can reveal so much.
00:49:11.280 --> 00:49:16.960
Um, and then to have friends that you can communicate with that can share other perspectives is so amazing too.
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:22.559
And maybe it's not friends, maybe it's coaches, maybe it's right, it could be a lot of different ways you get new perspectives.
00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:35.840
But I think being able to have the perspective or a new perspective, or even if you don't ask for support to be able to receive support, that can also be tricky.
00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:39.280
Even you didn't ask for it, even if it's just like presented to you.
00:49:40.400 --> 00:49:42.079
No, no, I'll do it myself.
00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:43.440
Will you really though?
00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:48.639
Or maybe I learned so much about myself and seeing how how resistant I was to help.
00:49:48.719 --> 00:49:49.199
Absolutely.
00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:57.440
Yes, it's it's a whole big, big uh thing that you can unravel and inquire and be curious about.
00:49:57.599 --> 00:50:05.760
And that's my favorite state now is to be curious because I think I used to show up in more way more like harsh, judgmental toward toward myself.
00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:06.960
Not not anybody else.
00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:09.119
I was good with everybody else and how they did it.
00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:13.760
It was me, my personal internal angst around it.
00:50:14.000 --> 00:50:17.599
Yeah, and I realized that too about myself when I was having real trouble.
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:19.519
Like I just hated myself.
00:50:19.760 --> 00:50:19.920
Yeah.
00:50:20.079 --> 00:50:23.920
And then I had to sort of take a minute and think, would you talk about this?
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:28.480
Like, would you talk like this to anyone that you know, even a stranger?
00:50:28.639 --> 00:50:28.960
Yeah.
00:50:29.199 --> 00:50:29.840
You would not.
00:50:30.079 --> 00:50:30.239
Right.
00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:30.639
Yeah.
00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:34.079
You know, like why are you being so horrible to yourself?
00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:39.679
Like you're the one that's supposed to be there for yourself, and you're the one eventually actually harming yourself, right?
00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:49.119
And so that also was an important thing for me to look at and and to see that, you know, why why are you treating yourself in a way you would never treat others?
00:50:49.840 --> 00:50:56.480
And and creating these problems for yourself, you know, and so that that's also I think a big lesson.
00:50:56.719 --> 00:50:57.360
Yeah.
00:50:57.840 --> 00:50:59.599
So do you have this is a big question.
00:50:59.679 --> 00:51:06.159
I tend to do this as we start to wrap things up, but do you have kind of and we don't have to wrap up immediately.
00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:08.639
So if you have things that you want to talk about, you we can take time.
00:51:08.719 --> 00:51:23.920
But I'm just thinking about like key things that have really you've just found our like the golden nuggets or like the the unlocks when you're really, really in that that in-between where you just feel like I've tried to take a step in every direction and it just ain't organ.
00:51:25.199 --> 00:51:31.119
Do you have some just kind of resets or words of wisdom for our listeners for those moments?
00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:34.880
It can be one thing, it can be many things, but yeah.
00:51:34.960 --> 00:51:38.639
I mean, I think one of the things is just pausing.
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:43.920
Because I think for me, I'm kind of if I don't like it, I'm trying to get out of it, right?
00:51:44.320 --> 00:51:47.679
Yeah, and the more you fight, the worse it gets sometimes.
00:51:47.840 --> 00:52:01.599
So I feel like sometimes, uh and I say this for myself too, and I'm not particularly good at it, but I try to remember that if you pause for a minute, you'll feel differently and you'll see things differently and you'll be able to act differently.
00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:03.599
So I think that's actually really important.
00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:10.159
And then the other piece is just really being kind to yourself, having a lot of compassion for yourself.
00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:28.480
Um, you know, I think often if you're sort of a person that works really hard or you're sort of high achieving or hard on yourself, you you can judge yourself really harshly when things are getting difficult, even if it's not your fault, but you start to see it as your fault, or what should I have done differently, or what could I be doing differently?
00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:33.199
And so I think just having that compassion for yourself is also a really big key.
00:52:33.519 --> 00:52:34.079
Yeah.
00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:41.280
Those are two beautiful, and they sound simple, but like fully recognize that they aren't always yeah.
00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:44.400
I know the simple things are always very hard.
00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:46.079
Sometimes they're the hardest things.
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:48.400
Yeah, it's like, oh, you want me to do this big, huge thing?
00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:48.880
I got it.
00:52:48.960 --> 00:52:50.719
You want me to do this small, simple step for myself?
00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:54.320
Yeah, yeah.
00:52:54.480 --> 00:52:55.920
Can we complicate this up a little?
00:52:56.000 --> 00:52:57.840
That would make it easier for me.
00:52:58.559 --> 00:53:00.719
I'd prefer a 17-step plan.
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:01.760
Yeah, right.
00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:03.039
Oh, that's so funny.
00:53:03.280 --> 00:53:05.760
Gosh, I really am enjoying this conversation with you today.
00:53:05.840 --> 00:53:08.159
I appreciate you booking the slot and spending the time.
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:12.480
Is there anything else you want to share before we say goodbye for now?
00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:14.559
And who knows, we may do this again.
00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:16.559
Yeah, I think this is great.
00:53:16.639 --> 00:53:18.159
I just really appreciate the conversation.
00:53:18.320 --> 00:53:20.320
I appreciate you opening with that intention.
00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:24.079
I feel like this was sort of an exploration with curiosity and joy.
00:53:24.159 --> 00:53:26.559
So I've really enjoyed it and and thank you.
00:53:26.880 --> 00:53:27.360
Me too.
00:53:27.519 --> 00:53:28.000
Thank you so much.
00:53:28.159 --> 00:53:33.440
Oh, I do I will put your links in the notes, but I like to say it out loud on the mic too, because sometimes people listen while they drive.
00:53:33.519 --> 00:53:38.000
So you just rattle off your website at least so that people Yeah, absolutely.
00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:43.440
So you can find me and basically links to all of this stuff on my website, Sarah Farina.co.
00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:50.000
And uh on Substack, if you'd like to read more, it's the Sarah Farina on uh Substack.
00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:54.880
And uh there are links in all of that to the workshop that's coming up, to the book that's being launched.
00:53:55.119 --> 00:53:57.920
Uh when I my memoirs published, it'll all be there as well.
00:53:58.239 --> 00:53:58.559
Awesome.
00:53:58.639 --> 00:53:59.599
And it's Sarah with an H.
00:53:59.760 --> 00:53:59.920
Yeah.
00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:02.559
Sarah with an yeah, S-A-R-A-H.
00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:06.559
And then Farina F is in Frank, A-R-I-N-A.
00:54:08.159 --> 00:54:08.559
Perfect.
00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:09.599
Thank you so much.
00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:10.960
I really appreciate this.
00:54:11.199 --> 00:54:13.039
Thank you for having me, Michelle.