Karen Hutton

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I love black and white too.
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I love the bones.
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You know, how you can see the shapes and the bones, and you're not distracted by all the color.
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You actually are.
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It's very honest, authentic, and truthful, and you can't hide.
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This photography podcast is brought to you by Frames, quarterly printed photography magazine.
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Here is your today's host, W.
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Scott Olson, with another fascinating conversation.
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Well, hello everyone, and welcome to another podcast from Frames Magazine.
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My name is Scott Olson, and I gotta tell you, folks, I am absolutely thrilled and excited about today's show.
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You know that I'm a sucker for travel photography and for landscape photography, and for just getting out in the world and seeing and interpreting and coming up with an expression to offer somebody else and say, look, dear other, whoever you may be, this is what I see in the world.
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Do we have something to talk about?
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And there is nobody out there doing it better these days than Karen Hutton.
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Karen is a professional Fuji photographer, landscape and travel photographer, mixed media artist.
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Resume goes on and on and on.
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But there's something special about Karen's work.
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You look at it and you think, oh my heavens.
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Um, you know, a lot of people, you say, you know, what are you photographing?
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If they're not talking about buildings or trees, they'll talk about an emotion.
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Oh, I'm trying to get a little bit of happiness in here.
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I'm trying to get a little sadness or, you know, loneliness or whatever.
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Karen, she's about awe.
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And not just little awe.
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We're talking triple forte, smack you on the side of the head.
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Look, this world is just gobsmackingly beautiful kind of awe.
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And you look at her work and you think, thank you.
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I mean, that's the first thing that comes to my head.
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You say, thank you for this kind of vision, because every now and then, you know, I wish it would happen more often, but every now and then I look out my window, I look over my shoulder on the trail, and the world just grabs me by the lapels and says, Wake up.
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This is more beautiful than you are allowing it to be.
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And Karen's work is one of the ways that I get reminded of that.
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Karen, welcome to the podcast today.
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How are you doing?
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I'm doing good, Scott.
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And thank you.
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My goodness.
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I heard uh I heard actually Nick Brandt say he was blushing after your introduction.
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And now I know what he meant.
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I'm just like, wow, who is this person?
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I want to meet her.
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So do I.
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My God, this work is good.
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Um, Karen, that there is so much for us to talk about today, but I but I want to get a handle on an early timeline, though, because you talk about, you know, and and this is a story that you tell quite often.
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You know, eight years old, whatever, you're on stage and you have an experience, a vision, you know, a pillar of light sort of informs you and you know the rest of um the audience.
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It changes your life.
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You you get into photography, you're getting your mom's hand-down cameras.
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We got some brownies and stomatics, pentex, menolt's coming through here.
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But then something happens with the with the dark room.
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And I I will say this, Karen.
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I believe in the entire history of the podcast, you are the only person that I've ever interviewed that has dressage on their resume.
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Um, isn't it kind of basic?
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Yeah, oh, sure.
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Um, but no, I did tell me how you get from vision of light to hand-me-down cameras to a problem in the dark room, and then all the other things you did before digital came in.
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Well in 25 words or less.
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Yeah, in 25 words or less.
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Well, so you're right.
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I was a child of visions, and I did have that vision where light came in and informed everything and you know, just kind of like it was huge.
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I mean, it just came through my whole body, washed out, healed, transformed, and and you know, elevated everyone in the audience in such a way that uh I was all two people actually on the stage.
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I don't know that I always write this part, but I was also the person watching.
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So it was like my little kid was watching my whatever self doing this thing.
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And it wasn't me, it was this presence.
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So I thought to myself, self?
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What?
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This is amazing.
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This is my life.
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This is gonna be so awesome, you know, because at eight or nine years old, you're like looking ahead, thinking of the life you're gonna have.
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And I'm like, wow, that's gonna be amazing.
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So you move along through life and you're like, all right, what do I do?
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Where's the job description for pillar of light?
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And you realize this isn't the world for that exactly.
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So, so the job descriptions were so then, you know, the job descriptions I was faced with were what they are for all of us.
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And I was like, well, all right, what if I break this down?
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You know, and so I went with, okay, what things do I love?
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Well, I grew up with horses, and so, you know, they became the presence, right?
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That presence of light and expression and the depth and how there's more under the surface than appears, you know, there's more under the surface than it appears on the surface.
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Plus, I grew up with them.
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My mother was a horsewoman, so it was kind of a natural.
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We got into that and and I trained horses, but what was the appeal of what was the appeal of something like dressage versus barrel racing?
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I mean, they they are they are very different aesthetics.
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Yeah, well, my mother rode dressage, and I actually rode western.
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Okay.
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Because we grew up on a ranch and it was sort of natural.
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But, you know, I was uh willing to hop on a horse, you know, anytime, any day.
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I rode bareback most of the time.
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But my mother was in dressage, so I did western for a long time and it kind of was great, but it got a little boring after a while.
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So I was looking at what she was doing, going, wow, look at all that, look at the communication, look at the connection, look at the kind of movements you can do.
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And I liked that kinetic, you know, full body experience versus just sitting there looking pretty.
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And then I gravitated toward it, started learning more about the biomechanics and how it all worked.
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And it really uh was a mind-body, full expression of awesomeness with a horse.
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But I also, I mean, I don't talk about it a lot.
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I mean, I competed in dressage, I trained dressage, but I also drove, you know.
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I I was uh, you know, when I say dro drove with a horse and buggy, and I and I jumped and did cross-country and did all the things.
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But dressage was the one that most people wanted to learn.
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And when I became a trainer, I was like, okay, I'll teach you that.
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Because, you know, I always accomplished high level of everything I ever did.
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You know, dressage is very much like your figure is getting queered.
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There's a real when I say edginess, I don't mean like contrast.
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I mean like you are always on the edge of breaking form.
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Um, I mean, it it you are at at that absolute razor edge of incredible beauty, but a micro, you know, a micro step away from chaos.
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Yeah.
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Um isn't that life?
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I love life like that.
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But I mean, it's is you know, and and this does, you know, fast forward, you know, when we talk about gear and we talk about aesthetics and all that in photography, you know, the love of the gadget and and the control that you um advocate for really is finding, I think, some early history in your love of this kind of I I don't want to say the word control, but what's the word I'm looking for?
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Mastery, expertise.
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But it goes deeper than that because I'm edgier than that.
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Here's the thing is this vision of light, right?
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I couldn't get it in one.
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Horses had a part of it, acting had a part of it because there was an emotional truth and it and an embodiment of this emotional truth that you could explore and really settle into in acting.
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But then I was a figure skater because the whole dynamism of the edges, you know, you talk about edginess and this movement and this flow was was about rhythm and an embodiment in that way.
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So it was all embody embody voice because I was an actor and voice was a natural, you know, voice acting was a natural kind of expression.
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And that became about resonance and expression.
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And through it all, I always photographed because my mother photographed.
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I mean, her family, she was born in 1920, and her family photographed her from six months.
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Get that.
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So I have the I have this uh incredible photographic record of my mother that nobody has of their parents because her family did that.
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So I was pretty hopeless, you know, it was like I was gonna be in photography whether I liked it or not, apparently.
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But anyway, um, what I discovered when I started in photography was, and I also, by the way, taught everything I ever did.
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So I I would accomplish it at a really high level.
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Next thing I knew, people wanted to know how I did what I did.
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So I always had the two tracks going.
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So when I got into photography, I said, I'm not gonna teach this.
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This is gonna be for me.
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This is gonna be my art.
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This is gonna be, you know, because I always wanted to be a fine art photographer, but then as you mentioned, the darkroom chemicals made me sick and I couldn't do it.
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So when dark digital came of age, I circled back and I was like, man, I don't know if I'm any good.
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You know, was that just a pipe dream?
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You know, what's the deal?
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So it turned out pretty well, I would say.
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So when I was asked to teach first, I said, no, no, no, no, no.
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And everybody's like, how do you do what you do?
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And I thought about how I do what I do, and I thought, nobody wants to know that because it's all very inner-outer, it's all very somatic, and it's it's got a lot of layers to it.
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And I'm like, I don't really see anybody talking about this this way.
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How in the heck does somebody think they want to know how to do it?
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So I said no for the longest time until finally I had opportunities to talk about it.
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So I thought, well, this is a chance to find out how serious people are.
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And I would say, you know, well, you gotta feel this and think that, and blah, blah, blah.
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And they're like, no, no, no, no.
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What sliders do you use?
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And I was like, okay, you just go away, leave me alone.
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Because there are no sliders for this.
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And so, but they kind of like, no, really, we really want to know.
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So I started developing, I was like, all right, I know what I do.
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How would I tell someone how to do that and develop a system?
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So, all of this to say, what I had to do was stand back and look at, all right, what have you done in your life?
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And I looked at this arc of all these things, right?
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Which were all, believe it or not, an exploration of how to bring this light into this world.
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Because the one thing I walked away from that vision when I was a kid with was the understanding that that was my job.
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I just had to figure out what coat hanger to put it on.
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So, you know, it might have been acting, it might have been skating, it might have been voice, it might have been, you know, working at a bookstore, whatever, those were just the code.
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And even photography in many ways is is it's just a better coat hanger.
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But it is all an avenue to anchor light into the world because it is transformational.
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So you have a great quote.
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You say, I believe art is love made visible, that awe is the prime emotion given to us by the creator for its power of transformation.
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Correct.
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Well, okay.
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I mean, tell me about love made visible and tell me about the power of transformation.
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You know, when you're out there and you're doing, you know, in the Canyon Lands or you're doing, you know, a road trip piece, whatever, how is this informing the the way something as simple as composition, but even more deeply, just the understanding of yourself as an artist offering something to the world?
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All right.
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So if you're gonna offer something to the world, you have to do it in love and light, or else it's not much of an offering.
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Now, here's an interesting thing about light.
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They in quantum physics, this is this is not a deep uh experiment, but there is something called the observer effect, and I'm trying to remember the name of the experiment, but it involved the fact that in these particle beam experiments, they discovered that the results were not a given, that they often depended, well, they always depended upon the people in the room observing them.
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So the emotion, the feeling, the thought, the expectation, you name it, all affected the result.
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Now, that was particle beam experiments.
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You can look it up.
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Observer effect is the simple one.
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And if it comes to if the actual experiment comes to mind, I'll mention it.
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But is it the double slit experiment you're thinking of?
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That's it.
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Okay.
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Yeah, it's that.
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And so, you know, my little imaginative mind goes, now wait a minute.
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Here we are, because see, I I knew this when I saw the experiment.
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I'm like, this is quantum physics, and yet that's how I operate.
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And I'm like, how would I explain that to someone?
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And I'm like, okay, our little cameras are like uh particle accelerators.
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And what medium, what's our medium?
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Light, light, and time, but light.
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So what happens in a double slit experiment?
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It's completely affected by your presence, your emotion, your expectation, and that shapes your result.
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So what's happening?
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Light is coming through our camera, it lands on our card, you know, boom, shaka laka, we got a result.
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Now, how do you want your work to come out?
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How do you want it to affect people?
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Well, me, I wanted it to be light.
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I wanted to elevate people, uplift people, have these expressions of the earth, which I felt was alive.
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And I felt like, you know, this the presence that is in light moves me.
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I love it.
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Love is the force that created worlds, created our world, created us.
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We are that spark of divine fire.
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So if I bring that, and that is what I'm standing by watching this light come in, and that's what I attach to the, you know, my double slit experiment that lands on my SD card.
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That's why love is so important to me.
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Your mom's photographs, did she consider herself a photographer?
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Was she preaching the the merits of photography to you when you were six, seven, eight, nine?
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No, no, she wasn't.
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Um, no, as my short answer.
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And and with then when you would get her cameras, do were you just taking happy snaps, or did you begin to understand this as an art form even when you were very young?
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Oh, I always did it.
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I just didn't know what I was doing.
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But when I look back at the the photos that I took and why I took them, it's a feeling in my body that I that I start with.
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It isn't like I look at the photos that I was taking and there's like, oh, I took this because, you know, it is there's no verbal mental um explanation.
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I look at the image and I remember how I felt.
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Okay.
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And what drove that photo.
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So I always knew that it came from the inside and expressed itself outside.
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It just took me a long time to figure out how to say it.
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Well, not that long.
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Because I mean, you did go off to get a degree in fine art photography until the dark room got in the way.
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Um, I mean, this this was not a discovery at age 35.
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No.
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The but if you don't mind me asking, what happened with the chemicals?
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Just allergic to the thing.
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Oh God, yeah.
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I've got like the most horrendous headaches and nausea, and I couldn't think, and I I just it was awful.
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I was just so miserable.
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I'd have to go after class and lie down.
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I mean, I had those same responses, but it was to what I was photographing.
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Had nothing to do with the chemicals.
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I've heard I've heard people say that, but no, the chemicals were just I was okay for a while, long enough to know that I loved it.
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But the longer, the more time, and of course, I I don't I do everything to such a huge degree that you know I just wanted to live in the dark room, and I did for a while, and then ooh, it started to yeah.
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The headaches in particular.
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2009 comes along, you get a digital camera, and the world falls in love.
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Um tell me about coming back to photography.
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Tell me about you know getting into digital and what was going on at Lake Tahoe and that kind of stuff.
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I got into digital before 2009, just well, I kept trying digital cameras and none of them measured up.
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:42.399
Um, I couldn't even face it until the Sony F F17.
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:44.480
I don't know if you remember the F717.
00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:45.600
Nope.
00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:47.759
Okay, that was just this funny old camera.
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:53.200
And I started taking pictures, but they weren't that good, and I didn't really know how to use Photoshop.
00:16:53.279 --> 00:17:00.399
And so I just kind of went, well, if it's gonna be this awkward, I'm just gonna go with a little hand, you know, pocket digital camera.
00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.600
So I used that for a while, but I kept complaining to my husband.
00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:13.119
I said, I keep seeing it, I can see it and I can feel it, but I can't get it with this camera because there just wasn't enough range, there just wasn't enough of anything.
00:17:13.359 --> 00:17:22.880
And so he handed me my first real digital camera in 2009, and he goes, Here, and it was interchangeable lenses, which is another thing I needed.
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.400
And he said, Here, I keep hearing about the pictures you see in your head.
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:27.519
I want to see them too.
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:28.400
Go get them.
00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:29.039
Oh.
00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:31.440
And of course, I balled.
00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:34.000
And then I said, See ya.
00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:36.319
Love you, honey, buddy.
00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:37.920
Love you, see you later bye.
00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:48.240
And uh, and I went out, but you know, I wondered, uh it took me a while to get my chops back because I was used to you, not digital, you know, SLR, not DSLR.
00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:55.359
And so I had to kind of like, okay, aperture, and it's not the same, but it is the same, but it's you read a different, it's just all different.
00:17:55.519 --> 00:18:01.359
So I had to kind of get my chops back, and that's why I went out and just messed around and um tried things.
00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:06.559
And uh, and actually some of those really early photos I still love.
00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:08.480
And I wondered the whole time.
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:09.279
I don't know.
00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:12.000
Maybe I was just maybe it was a pipe dream.
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:14.000
Maybe I don't, maybe I'm really no good at this.
00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:14.640
I don't know.
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:18.640
How am I gonna know unless I, you know, get out there and get dirty?
00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:19.519
Mm-hmm.
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:22.960
Now you did not go into studio work at all.
00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:26.880
Is this just an accident of being Western by, you know, being upraised there?
00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:28.240
Wait a minute.
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:28.799
Studio?
00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:30.400
You're talking about being out of the way.
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.839
No, no, no, no, studio, no, portraits, weddings, oh yeah.
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:37.200
There's a product photography.
00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:40.559
There's a lot of other ways to be a photographer than landscape and travel.
00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:45.359
Well, so I followed what I loved, and that was the out of doors.
00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:58.640
And I like being by myself with my thoughts and frequencies and the light, and I can't hear and I can't sense the voices beyond in a studio.
00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:07.599
You know, you have um on at least one website here, what they call, you know, a um philosophy of landscape photography.
00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:12.559
And it's not until step three um that photography even comes into it.
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:16.480
The first two steps are express yourself and stay true to that expression.
00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:23.759
How a lot of people discover a voice, they discover a style through taking hundreds of thousands of you know of pictures, we hope.
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:33.599
But you put express yourself and stay true to yourself as the first two steps um for your your self-identity as a profess uh landscape photographer.
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:34.000
Yeah.
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:42.880
How how well known you know, are do any of us uh understand our ability to I'm saying this badly.
00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:51.599
You say express yourself, but if who I am changes every day, how am I going to chase that versus chasing a product and seeing if I'm in there?
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:55.599
Chasing a product and seeing if you're in there.
00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:56.799
What does that mean?
00:19:57.200 --> 00:19:58.160
Yeah, I don't I don't know.
00:19:58.240 --> 00:19:59.279
I got lost in that question.
00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:05.200
Um I think I know what you mean, but I just want to make sure I I grab all the because there's some different nuances in there.
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:08.799
And it's a smart question, but I just want to make sure I've got all the pieces.
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:15.039
So when when I go out, something may, you know, uh call itself to my attention.
00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:18.640
And I don't stop and think, how is this an expression of me?
00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:20.880
I simply think that's cool for whatever reason.
00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:22.799
Let me try and make a photograph of it.
00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:23.759
I so I'm not sure.
00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:25.279
Okay, I'm gonna stop you right there.
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:30.079
The reason I say expression might be the wrong way to say it, I don't know.
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:35.119
But what you just described is what most people do, which is oh, look at that.
00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:36.400
Let me take a picture.
00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:40.720
I always say picture like P-I-T-C-A-T-R because it amuses me to no end.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:42.000
I make up words for things.
00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:44.799
It's a picture like that, you're gonna pour out a picture of light.
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:45.839
Okay, okay.
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:53.519
My point is some people do that their whole life and then wonder why their photos aren't really landing.
00:20:54.559 --> 00:21:15.519
My feeling is like and again, this could be a projection of me and the way I see the world, but my thought is okay, you see something that grabs you, and you said you stop, and then the next thing in this model that I'm talking about should be to ask the question, why?
00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:16.559
Okay.
00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:19.680
Versus, oh, I'm gonna go take a picture of that.
00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:28.079
That strikes me as tremendously inspiring and creative, but also a little bit different than I'm going to go out today and find beauty.
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:29.039
So is that beauty?
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:29.680
Is that beauty?
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:33.119
You know, it's sort of interrogating everything you see with a predetermined template.
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:35.920
Then that's a head exercise, a mind exercise.
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:43.359
That that takes place in the middle of your head, versus if you want to do that and do it in a different way, you can go out.
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:45.599
Um, you don't have to find beauty.
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:47.200
Beauty will find you.
00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:57.440
What in other words, if you think about it this way, that we all sort of I don't I'm I I'm hesitating because I'm like, is this going to be too woo for this conversation?
00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:58.000
I don't know.
00:21:58.319 --> 00:21:58.799
Go for it.
00:21:59.119 --> 00:21:59.680
We all read.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:00.640
Resonate.
00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:02.640
We all recognize resonance.
00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:05.759
Like, you know, you talk about, oh, we just vibed, right?
00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:06.640
I resonate.
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:07.359
I'm I'm with you.
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:08.079
I get okay.
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:10.559
So we all resonate at a certain place.
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:12.319
Well, so does the world.
00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:16.559
There is actually in the world, there is a frequency.
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:21.279
Well, if you imagine the air is water, but it isn't water, it's air.
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:22.240
We all know it's air.
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:29.519
But if it were water and you could see it and it had a vibration, you could see the vibration in the water.
00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:30.640
Well, the air is like that.
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:31.759
I mean, the world is like that.
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:37.119
So wherever you're resonating is gonna tend to be what you align with in the world.
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:43.119
So if you have a craving, a love of beauty, you don't have to chase it.
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:44.880
You just hold that.
00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:46.400
You just resonate there.
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:48.480
You just go, oh, beauty.
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:49.519
It's everywhere.
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:55.279
So all you got to do is stay true to that, hold on for a minute, and let it come to you.
00:22:56.400 --> 00:23:03.519
Um I'm imagining going on a photo walk with you as being either completely thrilling or completely demoralizing.
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:13.599
Yeah, I'd never let it be demoralizing because basically, you know, so like in my retreats, you know, when I did them for years, um, we talked about a lot of this stuff ahead of time.
00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:15.519
So people did have a bit of warning.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:28.559
But when we when, and then I would, you know, I used to start, and this is what I always advise people too, if they want to play with this, don't just go out in the big wide world where there's so many distractions and it can be really overwhelming.
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:30.480
Just start in your immediate area.
00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:34.319
Maybe, you know, like I always did my retreat somewhere beautiful.
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:43.039
So we'd start in our immediate area, and it the little assignments would be just find something that just makes you go, oh, oh, I love that.
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:44.559
Oh, that's so neat.
00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:46.160
What can I do with that?
00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:50.160
That makes you start having that kind of dialogue with yourself.
00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:53.359
It's not about me saying, that's not right.
00:23:53.680 --> 00:24:01.759
Um, I mean, and then by the time we get out in the world, if people are just charging off and doing the old thing, I'll say, no, just stop for a minute.
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:03.119
Why are you doing that?
00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:04.160
What do you feel?
00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:05.599
Like what's drawing you?
00:24:05.759 --> 00:24:12.960
And how can you take a moment to see what and feel what it is about that, and then shoot.
00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:22.400
I hate, yeah, I don't even like using the word shoot, but you know, make an image around the thing that is drawing you versus the thing itself.
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:24.559
The thing about the thing.
00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:25.599
Yep.
00:24:25.839 --> 00:24:26.480
Absolutely.
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:27.359
Yeah.
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:30.240
Let's take just a quick break.
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:33.519
We hope very much that you are enjoying today's episode.
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:39.200
The very fact that you are listening to this podcast suggests that photography means a lot to you.
00:24:39.279 --> 00:24:45.680
And if that's the case, you might want to have a look at Frames, quarterly printed photography magazine.
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:49.759
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00:24:49.920 --> 00:25:01.200
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00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:04.480
And now, back to today's conversation.
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:18.720
You know, you you know, again, back to this uh philosophic statement.
00:25:18.799 --> 00:25:20.640
You say gear is what supports your vision.
00:25:20.799 --> 00:25:30.160
Uh in a video, you said being in the moment is essential, but also knowing technique and gear to the point of it being intuitive and almost invisible.
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:34.960
So, I mean, talk to me about your relationship to hardware.
00:25:35.920 --> 00:25:39.119
It's weird, actually, my relationship to hardware.
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:41.440
I friggin' love hardware.
00:25:41.680 --> 00:26:01.599
I really do, because one of the things I learned in with horses and uh uh you know, competitive equestrian sports and things like that is you you want the right saddle, you want the right reins, you want the right gloves, you want the right pants that you wear.
00:26:01.839 --> 00:26:15.440
Because all these things, um, I don't mean literally physically reduce the friction, but I'm saying that they help you, they can help you, but you have to be clear about what you're going for first.
00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:17.759
Now, not everybody does in the beginning.
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:18.720
I get that.
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:28.640
So that's a kind of a different, not a different, it's a related conversation, but it's a different level, different layer of this conversation.
00:26:28.880 --> 00:26:36.400
So gear is awesome because if you know, like for me, I love Fujifilm.
00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:41.279
Fujifilm works for me because I know how I like to operate.
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:57.519
I know how I like to use muscle memory, I know the colors I like, I know the contrasts I like, and there's just things that that help me take what I'm feeling and seeing to the next level without getting hung up on settings and things like that.
00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:08.799
So that's why I love gear, because if you if you can find the right one for whatever level or layer that you're at, it will really help you.
00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:15.359
But what happens to a lot of people is they get so fixated on it that they think the gear's doing the job.
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:22.799
They don't trust themselves enough to go, okay, thank you, you know, whatever the brand is.
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:27.200
And I'm just gonna take, you know, I'll I'll, you know, put a hole in a box.
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:28.079
I'll take a picture.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:29.119
I don't really care.
00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:30.720
Um, I'm not kidding.
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:34.960
But I do have my preferences depending on what it is I want to create.
00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:43.759
I'm trying to say this in a way that doesn't people don't, because a lot of times people people will say, Oh, well, you just say that because you're a professional and you're really fast at all this and you already know how to do it.
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:51.599
So I'm trying to frame this in a way that anyone listening could take it and go, Oh, I see what she's saying.
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:53.920
All right, let me see if I can apply that.
00:27:54.240 --> 00:28:06.400
Because if you're not sure about your settings, put your camera on auto and then go take photos without worrying about all the stuff that auto takes care of.
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:20.559
Then when you get comfortable with that level, then you're gonna go, okay, auto is fine, but you look at your images and you go, but now what I want to be able to do is make them a little darker or make them a little brighter or whatever.
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:24.160
And then that's your next setting that you're gonna learn how to use.
00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:33.599
So you let you let the need and you let the desire and the vision draw you forward with your technology, whatever it is.
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:42.079
I was thinking also the more expert we become with the gear, the more potentials open up for us.
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:46.400
I believe in some interview you talked about getting into a helicopter with a macro lens.
00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:46.720
Yeah.
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:51.279
Um, and I'm thinking, okay, there's a contradiction, but never never would have thought of that.
00:28:51.519 --> 00:28:54.640
And what a glorious product you wound up with.
00:28:54.960 --> 00:28:56.240
Well, thank you for that.
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:59.839
I mean, that entire project was so counterintuitive.
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:09.200
It was crazy, but see, that's why when you start with a when you work from the inside out, nothing stops you.
00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:10.960
Nothing is a problem.
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:17.440
Because you go, all right, what if, like, what's another way to look at this?
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:19.119
What if I try this?
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:20.799
Why would that be true?
00:29:21.039 --> 00:29:26.640
So the the scope of the project, just so you have the story and the application of what I'm saying.
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:36.079
So Fujifilm did a project with national parks, where behind the scenes what they were doing is they chose a handful of us and they gave us parameters.
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:41.680
They handed us a camera and they handed us the lens, and then they said, You're gonna do this.
00:29:41.759 --> 00:29:43.440
And so everybody got a different job.
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:47.759
Some people did portraits, some people did weddings, but they were all in national parks.
00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:51.279
And we were allowed to choose our national park.
00:29:51.519 --> 00:30:00.880
And so I got uh, well, it was all the GFX cameras, so I got the GFX and the macro, and I had to choose a national park.
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:04.799
And it was like, all right, this is, you know, on the surface of it, is insane.
00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:07.920
How do you expect me to shoot a national park with a macro lens?
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:10.880
And then I thought, well, what the heck?
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:13.599
Let's pick a national park I have never been to.
00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:27.680
Let's let's raise the ante, because it's already pretty not, I don't want to say silly, like I'm gonna write it off, but it's already so outlandish, I might as well just go the distance and make it even crazier and go somewhere I've never been.
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:31.599
So you put yourself in an environment like that, you got nothing.
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:33.839
You know, you got nothing to hang on to.
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:36.799
So you so you enter it with an open mind.
00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:42.400
And this is what I'm saying about this work from the inside out and starting the way I always talk about starting.
00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:49.440
So you walk into this environment, and of course, uh, I talk to my gear, you know, I talk to my lenses.
00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:50.960
I say, Well, what do you see?
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:54.000
Like, I know what I see, but that doesn't matter.
00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:54.720
What do you see?
00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:57.359
And I hope that's sometimes cursed in my gear, but okay.
00:30:57.519 --> 00:30:58.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:58.160 --> 00:31:00.799
I mean, it's a little crazy, but what the heck?
00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:01.200
It works.
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:06.160
And so um I ask what it sees, and it shows me what it sees, and I go, Well, what else do you see?
00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:09.119
Because you know, everybody thinks, oh, you're gonna shoot macro with a macro lens.
00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:11.440
And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, not necessarily.
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:18.000
Because I've done so many different, you know, beta testing and different kinds of projects and stuff like that.
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:27.359
I'm like, and and because I grew up with cameras and I didn't always have good gear, so I was always having to go, well, what else can this do?
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:29.200
Because I'm kind of bored now.
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:35.119
And so I took this macro and I was like, all right, we're in this big environment.
00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:45.039
And yes, I can do macro, and yes, I did macro, but you can also do panos, you can also do medium shots depending on how far back you get.
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:55.759
You can do intentional, you know, camera movement because there's plenty of places like in the scenic canyon that it the light it lends itself to stuff like that.
00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:00.960
Um can always throw on a filter and do some, you know, slow things down.
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:06.799
And you can do because a macro lens is also a beautiful landscape lens.
00:32:07.599 --> 00:32:08.960
So, what else can you do?
00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:10.480
So I just keep asking questions.
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:11.359
What else can you do?
00:32:11.440 --> 00:32:12.319
What else do you see?
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:13.599
Okay, I've done all that.
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:14.559
What else is there?
00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:19.519
And and mind you, this was the last project of the year.
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:21.359
I don't know what it was about that year.
00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:28.480
That was like my fifth or sixth project from different sources where the assignment was a macro.
00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:32.160
I did a class on macro for Kelby One.
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:40.720
Um, I'd I had to do a couple other, I had to do a couple interviews, I'd write some articles, had to do some other, you know, take a bunch of pictures type project.
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:46.880
So now we're at the and I'm thinking, I, you know, I gave it all, you know, I left left nothing on the stage, right?
00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:55.279
And now I have this monumental Fujifilm project, National Park with a macro, and I'm like, I I I've shot my lot already.
00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:56.640
What do I do now?
00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:00.400
And I just was like, Well, what haven't I done?
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:04.640
And see, the the brain is hardwired to answer questions.
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:12.079
So if you don't, that's another reason why earlier, when you said, I'll go out, I'm gonna look for beauty, oh, that's beautiful, and you run off.
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:13.759
Well, you haven't asked any questions.
00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:14.480
That's right.
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:16.720
So, what are you gonna get that's new?
00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:24.640
And so if your brain and your mind is hardwired to answer questions and you need some new information, start asking it questions.
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:25.759
It will answer you.
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:27.519
It's the craziest thing.
00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:33.440
So anyway, tell me a little bit about discovery and post-production.
00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:37.039
Because I was watching your video about the edit of a Donner Lake shot.
00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:43.920
Um, and it's it's not all that close to documentary work it when by the time you're done.
00:33:44.079 --> 00:33:48.960
Um, but you've you've achieved something completely original, something something completely new.
00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:57.119
So tell me about your relationship to creativity and discovery and and all those wonderful things when you're at the computer.
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:00.000
Man, you did your research.
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:01.279
I got to hand it to her.
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:03.200
I'm like, I'm thinking, what video?
00:34:03.359 --> 00:34:05.200
It's like, oh my God, I think that was 10 years ago.
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:09.280
I have talked to your seventh-grade social science teacher, too, by the way, but that we'll we'll save that for you.
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:13.920
Well, I would say there's a couple ways.
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:14.880
There's a couple things.
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:21.519
One is, you know, people often ask me, do you see the finished product when you take the picture?
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:24.559
And not sometimes I do, but sometimes I don't.
00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:28.239
And then boy, when it comes to whimsical reveries, no, I really don't.
00:34:28.480 --> 00:34:29.199
But right.
00:34:29.519 --> 00:34:30.960
Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:39.199
Anyway, the point is, uh not always, but the reason it works is because I go from the feeling.
00:34:39.599 --> 00:35:02.000
So when I take a photo, I um am doing it from, oh my God, I love this, or you know, oh, this has a feeling of, and I, you know, the the feeling is gonna frame and the fact that I love it, or kind of the story that I feel like it's it's uh telling me if is it strong in geometry?
00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:03.679
Is it more about the light?
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:05.840
Is it more about the patterns?
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:07.519
Um, I feel it, right?
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:17.280
So I'm photographing it, framing that, framing it as a transmission of an expression of the earth and the light.
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:19.440
So that's already in the can.
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:23.920
So by the time I get it into editing, I'll take a look at it.
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:26.880
So I'm kind of like in my mind, kind of walking through this process.
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:29.519
I know what it was I was going for.
00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:34.000
Um, and usually I'll explore the idea a little bit.
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:36.000
So I'll have multiple shots.
00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:37.199
They won't all be the same.
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:38.719
There'll be different explorations.
00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:40.960
What if I try shallow depth of field?
00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:41.760
What if I darken it?
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:42.559
What if I lighten it?
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:51.679
You know, just to see which version, depending on how the camera sees it, is gonna land better by the time I see it later on the computer.
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:56.800
So now I've picked my photo and I go, all right, this was the light.
00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:57.840
There it is.
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:11.280
And I'm I might add a little more, I might bring the color up, I might bring it down, you know, and that's photographically, not never mind whether it takes me into another world because I see multidimensionally when I'm out as well.
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:16.000
So sometimes when I'm photographing and then I look at it later, it isn't even what it was.
00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:18.880
It turns into what it wants to be.
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:21.760
Does that make any sense?
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:36.000
No, it it it does because there is a commitment to the truth of the feeling, the truth of the aesthetic, which is sometimes the same thing as commitment to the truth of the rock as it was at 2 33 in the afternoon on that particular day.
00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:36.400
Right.
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:38.239
Um, sometimes those match.
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:40.000
Sometimes you've got to make a decision.
00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:40.639
Yep.
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:44.320
And sometimes it will tell you what it wants to be.
00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:56.639
You know, I had I can't even tell you how many times I've started processing a photo, a photo, and next thing I know, it's a, you know, it's a it's a portal to another world.
00:36:56.800 --> 00:36:58.559
And I'm like, how'd we get here?
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:13.760
But if we stick in the realm of photography, yeah, I mean, it is, it really becomes about the transmission or the feeling and how I can build it into more of what it was.
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:14.480
Right.
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:16.400
That's usually what I'm aiming for.
00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:18.159
It just doesn't always go there.
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:20.239
Sometimes it goes a whole lot further.
00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:23.360
And sometimes that means making it black and white, too.
00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:25.199
Uh, you know, you beat me to it.
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:32.880
Um, because you mentioned whimsical reveries a minute ago, and I'm that that's sitting here on my um to talk about list, but there's you've got this gallery in black and white.
00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:33.280
Yeah.
00:37:33.519 --> 00:37:40.960
And your work, you know, until you get to this gallery, you think, you know, my lord, here here is a complete master of color.
00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:47.199
Here's somebody who understands the the spiritual, the aesthetic, the emotional impact of color.
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:50.239
And then you get to scenes in monochrome.
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:55.599
So again, walk me through to pick any of these pictures from from this gallery.
00:37:55.679 --> 00:38:04.559
You know, walk me through its creation, but also talk to me about, you know, is this always a post, you know, I assume you're shooting in Raw, so this is a post-production decision.
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:09.519
How do you say, no, this one finally gets to be monochrome?
00:38:09.920 --> 00:38:13.199
Well, I'm trying to think of an exception.
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:19.199
The reason I'm pausing here is I'm like, I'm thinking now, is this always true or is this generally true?
00:38:19.360 --> 00:38:20.079
And I'm not sure.
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:21.679
So I'm gonna say generally.
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:30.400
Generally, I know when I'm likely to make it black and white.
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:32.559
And and sometimes I'll do it in camera.
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:36.000
It's just I want it, I want the raw, and that one's always gonna be colored.
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:44.960
So the thing about black and white, first of all, the reason I love black and white is that is where I started.
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:47.280
So in the dark room, it was always black and white.
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:59.440
And I had my own preferences of paper and toner and you know, the the contrast and the sh and the shade of of the black and the white and everything that I loved the most.
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:06.480
And the film, I mean, everything was very handcrafted and hand-chosen to get this particular final result.
00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:08.559
And I still have a lot of those, by the way.
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:13.039
Okay, and um so I still have those preferences.
00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:15.840
I I would say I've broadened them out somewhat.
00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:27.199
But so I so I understand what makes a good black and white and what makes a good one is strong patterns, strong lines, strong shadows, strong contrasts.
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:33.440
And then sometimes I'll be in a really beautiful place and the color just isn't quite happening.
00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:44.880
It's maybe it's a little bit of a murky day, but it but the lines and the patterns and the shapes are just so intriguing that I already know the color is not going to cut it.
00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:54.480
So then I've I just pretend like the color isn't even there, and then I shape it all around the shapes and the patterns and the contrast.
00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:57.280
And if there's a reflection, those always work.
00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:02.480
So I know the the properties of a good uh monochrome photograph.
00:40:03.039 --> 00:40:10.719
And so you you would say though, in the field, the for you, composition is very different, whether you're pre-imagining in color or black and white.
00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:11.440
Yes.
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:13.519
Oh, that that's very cool.
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:18.239
Um you you say on one of the websites that you know your work centers on narrative storytelling.
00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:23.440
Um do you consider yourself a different narrative um in black and white than in color?
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:28.639
No, it's just a different set of I don't know if you call them rules.
00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:29.199
No.
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:36.639
Okay the black and white, which is you know close to my heart, I think is is knock your socks off, wonderful.
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:44.000
Um and and I mean I think it black and white does call to a different emotional set in us than color does.
00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:47.360
Well, it does, but it's too you asked me, is it a different narrative?
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:51.199
And I'm like, well, it's a different story because the topic is different.
00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:59.840
You know, it's like is a Charlie Chaplin movie because it's in black and white different than you know a blockbuster, full color, you know, modern day movie.
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:02.880
Well, it's still a narrative, it's still a story.
00:41:03.039 --> 00:41:05.840
Yeah, it's different because it's different.
00:41:06.079 --> 00:41:08.400
But I yeah, I love black and white too.
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:14.480
I love the bones, you know, how you can see the the shapes and the bones, and you're not distracted by all the color.
00:41:14.559 --> 00:41:20.480
You actually are it's very honest, authentic, and truthful, and you can't hide.
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:22.000
Yep.
00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:26.960
That it's you know, in in my own work, black and white is how I see 99% of my work.
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:31.760
But every now and then something comes along and says, no, sorry, this one's in color.
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:35.599
Um, and and defeats my my initial impulse.
00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:38.159
Um, I mean, it literally just takes over.
00:41:38.400 --> 00:41:43.280
Um you you mentioned um whimsical reveries a minute ago.
00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:43.760
Yeah.
00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:50.159
And you know, again, somebody new to your website, they're scrolling through, and all of us, so what in the world is this?
00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:53.760
And it's again colorful, beautiful, fun.
00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:57.039
It it's it's got that sense of awe and joy to it.
00:41:57.280 --> 00:42:01.280
Um, talk to me about where in the world did this all come from.
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:08.079
And you've got monochrome, you've got color, you've got, you know, landscapes, you've got fantasy, all sorts of stuff going on in here.
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:09.199
You know, it's crazy.
00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:11.679
I you know best way.
00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:13.519
Talk to me about whimsical reveries.
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:14.400
Well, all right.
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:22.639
So I've already said I was a child of visions, and I did have visions, and I talked to God, and I was taken places, and all kinds of things happened.
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:24.960
A lot of times people don't like to hear that.
00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:27.199
They go, Oh, well, you you dreamed.
00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:29.360
I'm like, actually, no, it really happened.
00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:29.760
Okay.
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:38.960
So um, yeah, I mean, and I know the difference because yes, I do have dreams, but then I also had visions where they were real and places I went that I went.
00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:40.480
So so there's that.
00:42:40.639 --> 00:42:45.039
It's just I I didn't talk about it for most of my life because I'd have been locked up.
00:42:45.199 --> 00:42:47.199
In fact, I was told, don't, mm-mm.
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:52.639
Yeah, no, we're gonna have to we're gonna have to take you to someone if you keep talk doing this.
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:56.079
And I'm like, okay, I won't do it anymore.
00:42:56.320 --> 00:42:59.519
So I didn't for the longest time, but I never stopped seeing.
00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:05.280
And so, and so photography was good because at least I had an outlet.
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:08.159
And um, let's see.
00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:18.079
So I would be out photographing and I would hear and see things that were not in the lens but were going on, but I just focused on my photograph.
00:43:18.159 --> 00:43:25.920
And besides, I really didn't know how to bring those to life because you need Photoshop for that or you know, post-processing equipment.
00:43:26.719 --> 00:43:32.000
And um, so they just were like, they were just like these little voices on the side, right?
00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:38.960
And they got louder and louder, like in the getting closer to 2020.
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:41.760
I I I I I just feel like we're always guided, right?
00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:45.440
So then, you know, you know what happened in 2020.
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:51.840
So I had been planning a retreat overseas, all kinds of things I had on deck.
00:43:51.920 --> 00:43:59.360
And then of course it all got the rug got pulled out, and I thought, well, okay, I might as well learn how to create some of these visions.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:05.679
Because the question, like I said before, I asked myself questions to figure out what I want to learn next.
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:08.480
I said, all right, what does a thought look like?
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:10.880
What does a feeling look like?
00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:13.440
Okay.
00:44:14.000 --> 00:44:19.760
And I had a lot of feelings and a lot of thoughts at that time.
00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:22.320
And I started making them.
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:28.559
They were mainly um, not that they were good, but it was like, okay, I gotta start somewhere.
00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:31.039
And I certainly have a lot of time in my hands now.
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:33.519
So I might as well learn how to.
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:36.239
I always need to have a reason.
00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:40.559
I'm never gonna just sit down and figure out how to use Photoshop because who does that?
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:46.559
But uh I I always gotta have a reason, something, something that drives that much torture, right?
00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:53.679
So I was like, all right, I feel XYZ about this moment.
00:44:54.000 --> 00:44:57.039
I think XYZ is ABC.
00:44:57.199 --> 00:44:59.599
I'm not gonna name things because we'll get locked up.
00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:03.280
But I thought, well, how would you say that visually?
00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:04.719
Like, what is that about?
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:12.480
And because I'm a storyteller and a fanciful and I see funny characters and you know, grew up with funny characters and stories and stuff like that.
00:45:12.639 --> 00:45:18.320
I was drawn to a particular style and way of putting that together, but I had to learn.
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:22.480
So I just started, you know, making pictures of my thoughts.
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:23.280
Okay.
00:45:23.840 --> 00:45:32.800
You on the photography side, not to differentiate this from photography, but you know, you you say some of your influences are Edward Western, Answer Adams, Paul Capanegro, Minor White.
00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:35.519
And yet I'm looking at the whimsical stuff here.
00:45:35.599 --> 00:45:37.840
And this is uh steampunk left and right.
00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:40.480
This is, you know, a big Asian influence here.
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:45.199
So is is this where's this coming into your sense of the style of it, you mean?
00:45:45.360 --> 00:45:48.800
You mean the okay, so so then steampunk influences that kind of stuff.
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:53.840
Well, steampunk is just so weird, it's just so mixture of timelines.
00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:54.719
Yep.
00:45:55.280 --> 00:46:00.079
And timelines and multidimensional stuff has just been my life, right?
00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:04.639
So of course steampunk is gonna like factor in, and it's so distinct.
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.039
Um, and everybody recognizes it.
00:46:07.119 --> 00:46:14.480
It's not, it's not so in other words, I even though I will go out in all the dimensions, you know, you can't really create art around that.
00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:15.679
You gotta anchor it in something.
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:18.000
And steampunk was a good thing to anchor it in.
00:46:18.159 --> 00:46:21.360
But my influence is, I don't know if you know Vladimir Kush.
00:46:22.079 --> 00:46:22.400
Nope.
00:46:22.880 --> 00:46:25.119
Wonderful artist, very fanciful.
00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:30.800
Uh, there's a a way he thinks and paints and does his thing that I just have loved.
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:32.480
I I own some of his books.
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:45.199
Also, Maggie Taylor, who was one of the very early, her and her husband, Jerry Ulsman, were um very early Photoshop uh gosh, I think they helped form Photoshop.
00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:53.840
Um, but they were very early Photoshop adopters, and uh she would create this the craziest stuff, and I loved her work and her thinking.
00:46:54.000 --> 00:47:05.519
So I don't know, somewhere in I juzged all that around and storytelling and Aesop's fables and all kinds of weird stuff that I that I grew up with, and just there there it is.
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:07.840
There it is, whimsical reveries.
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:12.480
Well, it it like I said, it it is inspiring, gorgeous work.
00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:26.800
And you know, it it's not documentary photography, it is nonetheless absolutely dead on true, as you're saying, to a vision, to an emotion, to an aesthetic, to a way of experiencing um thought and as well as the world.
00:47:27.199 --> 00:47:32.239
You said earlier on, you know, that when people wanted you to be a teacher, you said, no, no, no.
00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:36.239
But then you are a teacher and and and you you do quite a lot of teaching.
00:47:36.480 --> 00:47:44.000
What is it that when people leave your classes at whatever level, what is it that you most hope they're carrying in their heart?
00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:58.239
Light, how to express it, how to be it more, how important it is to put a voice to their own spark of divine fire, because that's what real art is made from.
00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:03.679
And earlier we talked about, oh, I thought I would get to that after taking 100,000 photos.
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:06.159
And I'm like, let's cut to the chase.
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:09.360
Like, why are you gonna go take a hundred thousand?
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:18.639
I mean, there's nothing wrong with taking, you know, 100,000 photos, but why do you have to go through all that just to get the thing you were born with?
00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:21.199
Oh, I love it.
00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:24.159
So yeah, that's it.
00:48:25.199 --> 00:48:26.559
This work is special.
00:48:26.639 --> 00:48:28.480
I think there's a technical term for you.
00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:34.079
Uh I started looking, I started looking at it, and it went straight to my heart, straight to my soul.
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:42.079
And I'm thinking, this is like I said before, every now in the world, uh, you know, I'll be focused on something, but there'll be a little voice over my shoulder.
00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:45.199
I'll turn, uh, and there's that awe, there's that beauty.
00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:51.039
And and I am profoundly grateful that you found a way to bring that uh into a photographic articulation.
00:48:51.280 --> 00:48:52.000
Thank you very much.
00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:54.159
I have enjoyed this conversation immensely.
00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:55.199
I am so glad.
00:48:55.280 --> 00:48:55.840
I have too.
00:48:55.920 --> 00:49:02.639
Thank you, Scott, for asking the really, I don't know if they're hard questions, but they're they're really smart and they're brave.
00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:06.639
A lot of people won't go there, but you do, and I love you for that.
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:07.679
Thank you.
00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:11.280
Frames.
00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:15.840
Because excellent photography belongs on paper.
00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:20.400
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