Harnessing Golf's Evolution: Nick Chertock on Open Forum Innovation and Personalized Coaching Strategies

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Happy 2025, everyone.
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This is the first one of the year.
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My name is Jesse Perryman from the Flag Hunters Golf Podcast.
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I decided to take a little time off.
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I needed a break from everything, and so I can get back into 2025 just full steam ahead.
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Both Justin and I have some great guests coming on this year.
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You're not going to want to miss it.
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This is simple, next level information that you may not get immediately, but over time.
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It is our intention to plant seeds of greatness within yourselves and that you can come and understand how to grow yourself and how to grow within the game and how to make your game better through all of the genres that we're going to touch during the course of the next 12 months and beyond, and getting you to a place where you can get real comfortable with your game.
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And it's an honor and a privilege for both Justin and myself to help bring you this golf-affirming information that's going to help you enjoy the game and just add more fulfillment when you get out there and tee it up.
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So, without further ado, our first guest of the year.
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His name is Nick Shurtok.
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Notably, Nick is a Bay Area guy.
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California created a space called Open Forum.
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The name of the website is called openforumgolfcom and it is a platform where you can sign up and watch one-on-one coaching interviews.
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Coaches debate certain things from every pillar of golf improvement, primarily in the golf swing and with technology, and really diving into some of these things that'll make you get better, make you hit the ball better, make you hit the ball further.
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It's full-fledged right now.
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As of this recording, this is starting the week of the PGA.
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If you go on to OpenForumGolfcom all one word you can sign up and you can hear and witness what's going on down there and then have these one-on-one interviews with some of the great coaches in the world.
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And you've got to become a member to have access to this, but it's very reasonable and I highly encourage you to do it.
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Check it out.
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There's coaches on there that are going to help you maybe clear up some ambiguity, things that are foggy in your mind that you don't quite know.
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You might hear something from a particular coach and it might resonate with you and help you to click something in your game Period.
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So, openforumgolfcom, Nick.
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Thanks for coming on, pal.
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Both Justin and I thank you, and I hope everybody is having a good week and everyone's off to a fantastic 2025 start and the next couple of weeks we're going to be going into mindset.
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We're going to analyze what it really takes to get your engine going from the inside out.
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What it really takes to get your engine going from the inside out and, if you think deeply about it, with the advent of all of the technology and everything, which is a very important piece of the pie.
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Let's not forget that this is a holistic game as well.
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Openforumgolfcom Cheers everybody and have a great week.
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Hello, Welcome to 2025, folks, this is the first one of the year for the Flag Hunters Golf Podcast.
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On behalf of Justin and myself, we thank you for tuning in.
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It's going to be a great and exciting year.
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We're going to kick off the uh off the year with a fellow uh northern california and his name is nick shurtok, along with justin tang.
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Once again, thanks for coming on and and boys, happy new year.
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Happy new year, guys Right on Happy to be here.
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Hey, nick, jesse, good to speak to you First time 2025.
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Hey, nick, very quickly I just want to say that we're starting off the year on the right foot by having you as our first guest.
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Tell us a bit about what Open Forum is all about.
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Tell us a bit about what Open Forum is all about.
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Yeah, so Open Forum it came from a Facebook group of golf teachers that I had set up in about 2011.
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And so after a couple of years of this group really growing, there was a lot of strong interaction, a lot of friction.
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I would kind of seek out topics where people had disagreement and try to get all of the instructors I possibly could find to be in the group, and so one of our members named Mike Michaelides, who was one of the co-founders of the event.
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He said we should really do something together in person at the PGA show, and at the time I'd never been to the PGA show.
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At the PGA show, and at the time I'd never been to the PGA show.
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And so the first open forum was my first trip to Orlando for the show, and it was kind of chaotic.
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We really didn't have much structure, but thanks to the uh, the Facebook forum gave me the ability to invite hundreds of hundreds of pros and and there were probably 200 people crammed into a bar for the first one.
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It's evolved over the years.
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It's now in our 11th year.
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It's essentially a symposium and a kind of a networking event for the nerdiest golf pros and the sports scientists that come out, all the technology companies that I can get to sponsor.
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Traditionally Trackman's been out there sponsoring Ping Swing, catalyst, smart2move.
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This year 4D Golf is going to join us, probably Hack Motion Still talking to a lot of sponsors, but there's it's just an annual tradition now and we try to just maintain the spirit of a debating society essentially, where most seminars are not really trying to find disagreement.
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But I would say that I do seek it out, where we can have smart people kind of iron out differences of opinion.
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And you know you try to avoid where everyone's just agreeing with each other, patting each other on the back.
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You also don't want people being really over the line, but that that just rarely happens in an in-person event so you don't have to worry about it.
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So my goal is always just to keep it from being boring and always be on the cutting edge of new topics, new technologies.
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A lot of times unveil there at the open forum, so that's kind of what it's all about hey, speaking of bar fights, something very interesting happened last year.
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Let's talk about it, man, that was the hot topic yeah, the hot topic last year and it still continues to be shallow yeah, it's all about, you know, joseph mayo, all the the stuff he's been putting out on instagram for the last, say, two years maybe, uh, 18 months, uh, about an approach to teaching that high-spinning wedge that launches around 30 degrees, and Joe's very much in favor of an angle of attack of maybe 8, 10, 12, even 15 on a shot like that.
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And then there's kind of been another school of thought you could say a more shallow and hitting, you know, hitting behind it being being okay on another, the other side of things, if you will.
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I mean, I don't want to oversimplify it as though it's like this complete dichotomy there's a lot of opposite, opposite ends of the spectrum yeah, like, do you want to prioritize ball first contact and still hitting a low, high spinning shot, or are you, um, are you trying to prioritize not getting really steep into the ground and therefore the the shallower?
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Like, the idea is, which one's safer?
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Which one would someone lean to?
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Who cannot afford to chunk a ball?
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And so there continues to be disagreement there.
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But last year I think, we tried to set that debate up on a panel.
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It went okay.
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And then there was definitely a moment between Brian Manzella and Joe where I don't know there was definitely a moment between brian manzella and joe where I don't know there was it wasn't that much being discussed, uh, of substance in that particular moment.
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But that's an example of the guy.
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The guys have a history, you know there's, there's been many disagreements on many topics over the years between certain people, and so we're not really there to like immediately shut it down.
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So I I basically have a laissez-faire approach to managing it and nothing really got out of hand.
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And we've got chris como there with the microphone, you know, providing kind of the intellectual yeah, intellect he's able to, he knows all the sides, like he kind of knows what everyone where they're coming from.
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And then we have mike.
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Michael is for the actual physical security in case anything would ever happen, because he's a very large man yes, I, I always defer to michael when it comes to club hit speed production.
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Yeah, so he was a long drive competitor back in the day he was on Big Break 2 or 3.
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I know one of those early Big Break shows.
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He was a college golf coach and now golf-wise.
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I think he mainly does charity like exhibition stuff.
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So if you have a charity tournament you want a guy to just get out there and pump it 400 yards, hit a drive for somebody.
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He can still definitely bring it with.
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I don't know, probably around 130 miles an hour maybe a little faster.
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Very nice.
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So, going back to going back to debates between golf professionals, I think the main issue that causes all these conflicts is some what I call relativism, what you say works relative to a guy and how they interpret the information.
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And don't, don't forget, in uh, open forum nine, randy smith dispensed these words of wisdom.
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He said it's the guy in front of you that's the most important thing.
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It's not about my approach, how smart I am as a professional.
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The guy in front, if he can do it, that's the way for him.
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I thought that was so wise I was blown away.
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I was watching it yesterday.
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I watched that segment, icon segment, iconic teachers maybe three times, oh yeah, and.
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And it felt to me like this this is a guy that's produced the world number one, scotty scheffler, the most dominant golfer in 2024, and yet he, he said we are teaching the person in front of you.
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It almost feels like to be a great coach.
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You've got to go full circle, you've got to go into the weeds, all the technicalities of the golf swing, 3d data, ground force, data, and then you come back to the person in front of you us in in front of you, I would say it's a, it's like you, the.
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The advice he's given is probably what someone would say who's just getting into golf instruction.
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Oh, of course, of course you teach the person in front of you, but it would be very easy for them pretty quickly to see a scotty scheffler with that kind of footwork and maybe he doesn't fit their image of the kind of pivot they want to teach.
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Or the perfect swing, yeah, or this modern very like push your butt way back and get super shallow, like scotty is not an example of that at all, uh, but yeah.
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So I think for you in particular, since you're a golf instructor, you know that over time people in their teaching can fall in love with their preferences and so, uh, eventually I think the wisdom comes and, yeah, full circle.
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You're back to like, what does this person need?
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And they don't need to.
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To hear me be really smart like that as a student, there's probably very few students who would say, like justin's a good pro because he he throws a lot of vocabulary out at me and he shows me, like, all the different things that he knows.
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Uh, I think most people will gather that you know what you're doing based on what they can get you to do as a golfer.
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So that's how they're going to judge you anyway yeah, but I think at the same time also the scorecard.
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The scorecard matters and the ball flight matters.
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Right, like some guys, as an instructor, you don't want to be telling them about ground reaction forces.
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You're going to mess them.
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You're going to say, hey, look, you know what.
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You're going to mess them up.
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You're going to say, hey, look, you know what You're going to play tomorrow.
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When you address the ball, just hood, the club face, so you can hit the little draw instead of the big slice.
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And sometimes that's all they need.
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I mean, if you're a CEO of a Fortune 500 company, you don't have time to practice.
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That's all you need.
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Man, you don't need a golf improvement plan.
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Sure he could pay for it, but he's got no time for it.
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Yeah, that's another.
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Another spin on the like.
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Work with the person in front of you, yeah, could also mean find out, like, what's their true level of dedication.
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Like this, this ceo guy who works 80 hours a week and then he says, oh, I want a complete overhaul of my game.
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You know that he's never going to stick to any kind of practice routines.
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So then the band-aid approaches are realistically gonna have to be used in many cases where someone either outright says I won't, or you know that they say they will, but you know that they won't.
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So you've got to like craft what you tell them based on that.
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You know Jim Hardy and John Jacobs would not agree with the term band-aid approach.
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Sometimes the band-aid stays on for life.
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Man, if you can fix it, that's it, man.
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Yeah, it depends on the person and what they're trying to change.
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I'll say, yeah, maybe it gets a bad rap.
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I know that for some people they'll come out and say I want the quickest fix and it's a quick idea and I just want to hold on to that idea.
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And maybe for some people it's like for me.
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I was at the rain, I was hitting balls today, just hitting it really badly just off the heel, inside of the heel on some fairway woods, and then I just kind of zeroed in on this little thought in my backswing that that sometimes I have.
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That relates to this morad drill of basically trying to almost like not swing my left arm across my chest at all.
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Like, try in the back swing, try to swing my left arm, my lead arm, toward the target.
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I'm not really going to do that.
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But man, that little tiny thing.
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You might call that a bandaid if someone just said that to me, but every single shot for the rest of the session was so much different.
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So, like a little thing that'll get your sequence improved.
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It's beyond the level of consciously even understanding what you change and a little tiny thought could do it.
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Indeed, and back to Open Forum.
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How many editions are we in this?
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is Open Forum 11.
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And so it's our actual our 13th year.
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We missed two years because of covid, but essentially, um, it was 12 years ago that we did it the first time, and so we're back at the hyatt regency, which is the big fancy hotel in Orlando that most people go to.
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Have you been to the PGA show before?
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Unfortunately no.
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I know you're a world away.
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I'm a world away man, but I'm with you guys in spirit, as you always know, of course.
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Yeah, and I'll announce it close to the event.
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But we're going to stream it again for free just because we want to.
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We want just more people to see it and know about it.
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But your listeners will hear that, but it's not something I've shared.
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Uh, I'll usually like last year was the first year we did it I think something like three or four thousand people watched the stream, wow so it'd be nice if we can get that that number up to like ten thousand this year sure, how do we, how do our listeners, get hold of the link?
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so openforumgolfcom uh, just like the way it sounds is the three words.
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That's our home page, uh, someone, if they went to the home page they'd be able to buy the videos that have been produced of past events at the top of the homepage.
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There's a big banner there to register for the live event that's coming up on the 21st.
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So we always have it after demo day.
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For anyone who hasn't been to the pga show, they have a demo day tuesday at the uh orange county uh golf center.
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I forget the name of it, but it's a giant, giant range.
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Probably seen it on the golf channel and the magazines um.
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And then we, uh we always set up our event to be right after that and and the night before the actual trade show starts.
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So we're we're in the great location to be at the hyatt.
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We've had it at another hotel close by called the rosen plaza quite a few times, but we're going back to the hyatt this year and we've got some pretty good stuff in store.
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I usually am pretty I'm fairly late to tell people the lineup, just because I never want to have to bump somebody, to have to announce someone's going to be there and then, because we overbook, have to have to push them off.
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So let's just say the theme this year is going to strongly relate to the 30th anniversary of the X factor article and just.
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McLean Right and all about what drives the pivot and understanding that relationship between you know, the pelvis, how it's rotating in the trunk, uh, and and just so many topics that will come about from that.
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We try to have a general theme for the night but there's going to be probably five presentations and at least two panels, possibly a third panel discussion, one panel discussion this year we are going to talk about the business of golf instruction discussion.
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This year we are going to talk about the business of golf instruction, uh, just kind of how it's evolving, with pros starting to, you know, branch out into other areas.
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Uh, you know, a lot of pros are, whether they be involved in indoor facilities or having um contracts with training aid companies, or some people have their own training aids and then the whole online instruction way that's evolving and you know there's a lot of kind of opinions about.
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I personally I think online instruction so far has been a bust.
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Uh, I think it has potential but for the most part people are taking like a single lesson from someone, getting a voiceover video, and then they either jump to someone else because it's very tempting to do that, or they just get the one lesson and that's it.
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So they don't really develop much of a relationship, which has always been like the cornerstone of coaching.
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My take is this right, A lot of online instructors.
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They cannibalize themselves.
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I get it that a lot of the ancillary YouTube videos, Instagram videos, are for promotion, but it gets to the point where I'm getting all this information.
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Do I really need to take an online lesson?
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That costs $200 per session.
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But I can figure this thing out and that's generally the feedback that I get from a lot of friends in the US and the UK.
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I do think people are giving away the store um their Instagram channels, especially if they use video that they've already made to teach someone.
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Cause, imagine, if you watch someone's channel, uh, watch 20 of their videos immediately You're like this is my guy.
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I love the way he teaches.
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He's teaching someone who's got the same problem I have, and then you go get the lesson and they actually send you the same video that you just watched on instagram exactly, and that's the uh business model that most golf pros use, right scale.
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And I see a lot of videos being recycled.
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So could be videos from 2010.
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And I've seen that right, because I recognize the model of the drivers that's being used in the video.
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And then they try to market this as oh, this is a new program.
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I think that's a bit disingenuous, but at the same time, I get it Like it's very time consuming to take proper videos.
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Yeah, I get it Like it's very time-consuming to take proper videos.
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Yeah, I'm a real stickler.
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I feel like a lot this has gotten better, but in the beginning the audio quality was just horrible on a lot of these videos.
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And then eventually, because people are now able to use iPhone, I think it's easier to deal with microphone issues now than it used to be.
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But also like, as you mentioned, old stuff, uh, maybe out of date or you can tell the pro is like 50 pounds heavier now than in the video.
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Uh, but yeah, less hair.
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Less hair, of course yeah, less hair and in where you want it now than in the beginning.
00:23:06.077 --> 00:23:11.145
Less hair, less hair, of course, yeah, less hair in where you want it, more hair where you don't want it.
00:23:11.145 --> 00:23:26.125
It's tempting in golf instruction, especially the info product side of things, yeah, it starts to resemble like the fat loss industry, which is a lot about.
00:23:26.125 --> 00:23:34.020
Are you going to sell hype and false, exaggerated claims of what you can do for someone, or you're going to be honest?
00:23:34.020 --> 00:23:40.041
And if you're going to be honest, it's going to be harder to make money because it's easier to lie to people.
00:23:40.041 --> 00:23:49.226
And with golf they just say you know, just like the club makers with all their claims of instant, uh, yardage increases.
00:23:49.226 --> 00:23:54.563
But in yeah, in a golf pro, sell on a pdf, there's always some claim of strokes.
00:23:54.563 --> 00:23:55.666
You're going to improve.
00:23:55.666 --> 00:24:09.948
And I'll say, if I ever have a like a golf coaching platform and I might myself will never be a coach, but my whole thing would be not making any guarantees at all no, no claims, no promises.
00:24:09.948 --> 00:24:12.656
Uh, in fact, you probably won't get better.
00:24:12.817 --> 00:24:24.826
That's what I'd tell the only thing that's guaranteed to reduce strokes in your golf game is called an eraser the eraser that's it, yeah, and it's.
00:24:24.988 --> 00:24:27.874
It's's funny that you bring all these things up right.
00:24:27.874 --> 00:24:40.786
So my view is this right, there's only so many ways you can discuss about the golf grip, so many ways you can talk about ground reaction forces Before you go like shucks.
00:24:40.786 --> 00:24:44.926
I need to talk about this in a different way and you can't find anything.
00:24:44.926 --> 00:24:46.624
So let's recycle it.
00:24:46.624 --> 00:24:50.492
A three-year cycle hopefully we've got new people coming into the game.
00:24:50.492 --> 00:24:53.730
Hopefully people who saw it three years ago don't remember it.
00:24:53.730 --> 00:24:58.021
I think the golf instruction world needs ozempic.
00:24:58.021 --> 00:25:01.989
But what is the ozempic of the golf instruction world?
00:25:01.989 --> 00:25:18.541
I really don't know, man, and I find myself coming back to old school teaching well, not really old school, but guys who, who really understood how to change golf string motor movement pattern in a very simple way.
00:25:18.541 --> 00:25:28.635
I'm talking about guys like john jacob, jim hardy and those guys yeah those guys knew what they were doing.
00:25:29.076 --> 00:25:48.758
Maybe they didn't have the, the uh lingo that we're using today, but they got results like that yeah, I I my problem I have with the, and those are two different guys, so I'm not going to say they're the same, because, john jacobs uh, are you talking about the english one or the?
00:25:48.845 --> 00:26:00.853
there's an american, john jacobs too no, no, the, the english john jacobs was the mentor of mr plain truth, jim hardy okay I didn't know.
00:26:00.893 --> 00:26:20.644
Hardy worked with uh jacob oh yeah okay, so so essentially my, my and I'm not going to say criticism, because I'm in no place to be criticizing a legendary golf pro, but I'll say my questions that I would have about someone who teaches off ball flight.
00:26:20.644 --> 00:26:51.036
I do believe that in many cases there's a lot to look at with someone in terms of either coordination issues they have or or movement limitations that they're just unaware of, and so if everything's off ball flight, I feel like you're never going to talk posture or, uh, you know the way someone needs to feel in terms of their side bending and their forward bending and their extension.
00:26:52.046 --> 00:27:05.294
All the body motion stuff basically does not get addressed at all if you are strictly a really old school ball flight coaching, but I'm not going to say it's not great.
00:27:05.294 --> 00:27:09.375
I mean, I think it can work wonders for a ton of people, especially good players.
00:27:10.384 --> 00:27:22.234
Maybe I should clarify so they will adapt things like what you mentioned grip, address, stance, posture and see how it affects ball flight.
00:27:22.234 --> 00:27:25.494
But what I'm saying is they're not going to put the cart before the horse.
00:27:27.286 --> 00:27:42.156
Yeah, I am not someone who thinks it's a good idea to bring someone into golf and say, okay, I'm gonna make you master all of these fundamentals away from the ball first, like I guess that's how nick faldo learned the game.
00:27:42.156 --> 00:27:49.487
He said I think he had to spend weeks just getting the posture and grip right before he was allowed to ever hit a ball.
00:27:49.887 --> 00:27:58.852
I'd be more the opposite, I would say like to my kids if I bring them out there, I just want to get them feeling the club head swing.
00:27:58.852 --> 00:28:08.654
Make a couple swing, don't pay too much attention to the way they grip it, or if they're like aligning parallel.
00:28:08.654 --> 00:28:14.996
You know railroad tracks, it's like in general I want them to kind of know where they're trying to to send the ball.
00:28:14.996 --> 00:28:24.446
But it's more like get a feel of making that club head move in a relaxed way, uh, where you're not spazzing out trying to hit the ball.
00:28:24.446 --> 00:28:38.096
Uh, my, my overall like philosophy of what's wrong with instruction why everyone let's say statistically golfers don't improve like if you had to just bet.
00:28:38.096 --> 00:28:42.452
If someone's trying to improve, you had to just bet on whether they will or not.
00:28:42.512 --> 00:28:56.847
You'll probably win the bet that they won't and I feel like it's mainly because, like, when you first start you can't really hit the ball at all and then in the very first couple times you start to figure out how to get the club on the ball.
00:28:57.469 --> 00:29:11.987
You probably did some form of a scooping action, some some variant of a very steep downswing as far as, like the shaft angle coming down and then like a handle draggy.
00:29:11.987 --> 00:29:34.674
But there's a way to just get the club on the ball, at first to be able to shoot like 110 instead of not even be able to play, and I feel like everyone like makes that adjustment and then they often just get stuck in that pattern and they get a little better at it, but they're just kind of perfecting a mediocre pattern.
00:29:34.674 --> 00:29:54.617
And so, like I'm jealous of my kids who they can't play golf really, but when I watch them putt, like they actually have a more fluid way that they move the putter than I do, because I, you know, I learned, you know too much yeah, I, I try to control it and they like really let it swing.
00:29:54.738 --> 00:30:08.019
so the athleticism kind of gets taken out when you first realize I cannot hit this fat and I've got to kind of find a way to be still.
00:30:08.019 --> 00:30:17.998
And it's usually not in a way you would want to teach somebody and I think that's why almost everyone's super steep as well, with an open face.
00:30:22.951 --> 00:30:23.775
I got to chime in here.
00:30:23.775 --> 00:30:34.691
So, coming from a player's perspective in regards to teaching, you know we're talking about beginning.
00:30:34.691 --> 00:30:36.737
You know how, how do you teach a beginner.
00:30:36.737 --> 00:30:56.648
Most of the people that listen to this podcast are really, really good players, like we're talking about two and less, all the way up to the PGA Tour player, the Champ Tour player, the LPGA Tour player, along with other professional athletes that understand instruction at a high level.
00:30:56.648 --> 00:31:12.621
So, when it comes to teaching somebody who may want to get from, let's say I'll tell you in my experience, boys, one of the hardest jumps is like an eight or a nine getting down to a scratch.
00:31:13.345 --> 00:31:16.013
Yeah, that's a hard jump right there.
00:31:16.013 --> 00:31:17.147
Those are different worlds.
00:31:17.147 --> 00:31:21.237
That's like going through two ranges of skill.
00:31:21.237 --> 00:31:22.946
I would say you know?
00:31:23.027 --> 00:31:26.056
surprisingly, I've gotten a lot of emails.
00:31:26.056 --> 00:31:33.832
I don't know if you have, Justin, but I've gotten a lot of emails from guys in that handicap genre, in that category, let's say, seven to 10.
00:31:33.832 --> 00:31:38.757
And they email me and they say Jesse, I love your podcast, I love what you and Justin talk about.
00:31:38.757 --> 00:31:44.422
Can you help me get what are the necessary steps to get down to a scratch?
00:31:44.422 --> 00:31:53.086
To get down to a scratch?
00:31:53.106 --> 00:32:00.510
And then I think that's where an instructor and it's not 100% on an instructor at all I think that the student, the player, has to be very clear with what they want out of their golf game.
00:32:00.510 --> 00:32:11.900
If they're coming from that perspective, if they're a beginner and they just want to go have a good time, join a country club and break 100 every once in a while on the weekends, that's a different conversation.
00:32:11.900 --> 00:32:22.596
But when it comes to people that truly want to get better, let's just say let's stick with that genre right now, let's go from a 10 to a 7, and they want to get down to a scratch.
00:32:22.596 --> 00:32:26.213
What do you guys think that conversation should be like?
00:32:26.213 --> 00:32:32.612
Everything we've talked about up to this point, what would that conversation look like?
00:32:33.906 --> 00:32:35.653
I think it's three things.
00:32:35.653 --> 00:32:44.736
Well, you've got to understand that the guys sorry, let me start it would have to go back to the guys approach shots.
00:32:44.736 --> 00:32:48.855
I find that that is where a lot of guys waste strokes.
00:32:48.855 --> 00:32:52.311
So when it comes to approach shots, where does the ball start?
00:32:52.311 --> 00:33:18.391
I would always say either either three degrees either side of of the target and your range of of uh carry distances are you off by 15 plus minus?
00:33:18.391 --> 00:33:22.939
So you really got to know how far you actually carry your ball on average.
00:33:24.147 --> 00:33:26.272
And being smart about club selection.
00:33:26.272 --> 00:33:37.369
So if you're 160 from the flag and you choose an eight iron because you nuked it once and it went 160 and then you try to hit it, then it doesn't make sense.
00:33:37.369 --> 00:33:40.393
And where's the flag?
00:33:40.393 --> 00:33:45.509
So if the flag's center, I always tell guys hey look, just pick a club that's going to give you.
00:33:45.509 --> 00:33:49.211
If you hit a great shot, you're just slightly over the flag.
00:33:49.211 --> 00:33:53.535
But if you miss hit it, hey look, you're going to be pin high.
00:33:54.664 --> 00:33:57.714
And if you really chunk it, well, you're still front of the green.
00:33:57.714 --> 00:34:06.124
And if it's playing to a back pin, then you want to do the opposite.
00:34:06.124 --> 00:34:15.771
Right, you pick the club that, if you flush, it's going to get you pin high and then again, if you miss hit it, you're in the middle of the green or, worse, front of the green.
00:34:15.771 --> 00:34:17.411
So you've got something playable.
00:34:17.411 --> 00:34:32.413
And if you're playing to a front pin, you want to pick a club that, if you flush, sends you to the back of the green and then generally you're not going to hit it, flush all the time at a 7-8 handicap.
00:34:32.413 --> 00:34:34.532
Generally you're going to be in the middle of the green.
00:34:34.532 --> 00:34:39.253
So I think that's the most important thing from what I've observed over 20 years of teaching.
00:34:39.253 --> 00:34:48.137
So, approach strategy, Approach strategy that's where I feel that a lot of people miss strokes.
00:34:49.608 --> 00:34:51.434
I think that the stats bear that out.
00:34:51.434 --> 00:34:58.711
I think that's kind of been confirmed and from both Mark Brody's work and you remember, richie.
00:34:59.885 --> 00:35:01.052
Richie, our good friend.
00:35:01.534 --> 00:35:12.634
The danger zone, the danger zone, and I think, right, if you take that thinking a little bit deeper, then it's how well do you drive the ball?
00:35:12.634 --> 00:35:21.833
So if you hit the ball long and straight, then the approach clubs you use will be much shorter, making it easier to hit the green.
00:35:21.833 --> 00:35:34.731
I think this guy Richie I can't remember his name this guy Richie, I can't remember his name he was a top I want to say golf official and he did a study.
00:35:34.731 --> 00:35:44.684
He did a study that said the best predictor of a golfer's handicap would be greens in regulation.
00:35:44.684 --> 00:35:51.153
Sure, you got guys like Stan Artley hit one green per nine and shoot like what I don't know 32.
00:35:51.153 --> 00:35:52.436
But that's rare.
00:35:52.436 --> 00:36:01.496
But generally a guy that has very high number of greens in regulation would have a low score.
00:36:01.496 --> 00:36:09.333
So for golfers out there who want to get to scratch, you've got to target something like 12 to 13 greens in regulation.
00:36:11.346 --> 00:36:14.396
Yeah, I think Scott Fawcett decade.
00:36:14.396 --> 00:36:36.144
I think he's spoken on this topic quite a bit and I think he would agree there's such a value in being on the putting surface that just looking at greens if you're going to take one of the old school stats, in being on the putting surface, that just looking at greens if you're going to take one of the old school stats, probably would give you the best indicator of your scoring potential.
00:36:36.144 --> 00:36:46.135
Yeah, and it's better to have a 50-foot putt on the green in most cases than to be like 30 yards away with a horrible.
00:36:46.135 --> 00:36:48.010
Scott would probably disagree with that.
00:36:48.010 --> 00:36:52.614
But the the that he said you wouldn't aim to protect against that.
00:36:52.614 --> 00:37:00.239
But to have a straight downhill 20 yard chip shot out of rough is not what you want over.
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:03.349
You'd rather have a super long putt.
00:37:04.672 --> 00:37:14.922
Yeah, generally, if you're, if you're not, if you don't have the touch of a blacksmith, you're going to score better over 10 shots, but it's ironic you're.
00:37:15.003 --> 00:37:17.974
You're saying the first two places.
00:37:17.974 --> 00:37:24.713
You basically look, someone says they want to get from high single to scratch, and I'm not disagreeing with you at all.
00:37:24.713 --> 00:37:43.632
In fact, I would say the same thing is you're looking at approach strategy and essentially driving like having enough speed to be able to drive the ball long enough to give yourself an approach that gives you a good chance.
00:37:43.672 --> 00:37:44.315
Reasonable.
00:37:46.108 --> 00:37:53.510
None of that isting and chipping which maybe if you had a 30 handicapper and they said, how do I get to a 15?
00:37:53.692 --> 00:37:55.769
You'd say, well, I don't even have to watch you.
00:37:56.030 --> 00:37:59.871
Your short game is probably terrible, so let's work on that.
00:38:00.552 --> 00:38:02.409
Yeah, you're right, you hit the nail on the head.
00:38:02.409 --> 00:38:09.998
It's a relative approach, so what I would say to a 30 handicapper, it's going to be different to what I say to an eight handicapper.
00:38:09.998 --> 00:38:12.539
It's part of the interview process, right?
00:38:13.465 --> 00:38:27.871
Right, and there's different eight handicappers, because you might have an eight who really gets a lot out of their game, like they're smart, and so then you might have an eight who, if they had a brain, they'd be like a four or a five.
00:38:27.871 --> 00:38:42.313
So just helping them on approach strategy could make a huge difference, and that's the low-hanging fruit is that they go at every pin, or they really don't even know exactly how far they carry it.
00:38:44.217 --> 00:38:55.597
Yeah, so there are two kinds of scratch golfers golfers, scratch golfers who are ball strikers and scratch golfers who are short game visits.
00:38:55.597 --> 00:38:57.262
It really depends.
00:38:57.262 --> 00:38:59.907
Scramblers, I think.
00:39:00.007 --> 00:39:30.963
I think ideally, you want, you want a, a nice blend of both yeah, and then you I think you would look if you had a group of 108 handicappers, you probably start putting him into some groups, be like okay, yeah, there's, you know, people who obviously the guy can't can't hit a bunker shot or a high pitch shot at all, so you've got people where that part of the game is the weakness.
00:39:30.963 --> 00:39:44.186
Then you get some people who are just overall, they need more speed and that's going to help them with driving distance and then not have to swing their driver hard and get it even farther than they do now and that's going to help their approach game oh, yeah, exactly uh.
00:39:44.266 --> 00:39:51.215
So like you'd probably get like a group let's speed you up and then a group of like short game is.
00:39:51.215 --> 00:39:54.503
The issue is probably people are just terrible at putting.
00:39:54.503 --> 00:40:04.389
You'd end up with little avatars, uh, but I don't think out of 100 there's a hundred different types of levels of game.
00:40:04.389 --> 00:40:05.291
I think you could.
00:40:05.291 --> 00:40:32.117
You could end up having I don't know, maybe four or five like prototype, eight handicaps and and you would have a different approach to help each one, because if they're like 19 and and really fast and have no physical problems, you don't have to like get them to do hip mobility work so that they can just pivot properly like you go right into something.
00:40:32.117 --> 00:40:34.282
That's probably more strategy.
00:40:34.302 --> 00:40:38.090
I think the people have the mental game as what's holding them back.
00:40:38.090 --> 00:40:47.346
They tend to have the most, not not always, but there's more correlation where they're physically gifted so they can do anything.
00:40:47.346 --> 00:41:04.992
Like you see him on range, you see this guy can hit any shot and so like those people, as a coach I think you've got to handle so much differently than the person who's mentally completely fine, like doesn't really break down, but they've got all kinds of like technical swing things to work on.
00:41:04.992 --> 00:41:13.050
Like those people are in opposite sides and a lot of instruction is lot of instruction is like all technical swing stuff.
00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:19.909
So if you're a good player, a lot of that would just make you worse, and so if you want to, if you're listening to it, you're like I don't want to hear all this.
00:41:19.980 --> 00:41:33.842
I don't even want to see my swing on video because it might, I might not, like something in there and they're probably perfectionist there and they're probably perfectionist so like it's.
00:41:33.842 --> 00:41:55.731
It's that whole interview process is critical and, knowing your student if you're a pro and I I come at this not as someone who's ever taught but who's talked to a couple thousand teachers about what they do, and the older they get the seems, the more they put into really upfront understanding what is really the low-hanging fruit for this person.
00:41:55.731 --> 00:41:58.708
And then what's the domino I could knock over?
00:41:58.708 --> 00:42:02.646
And it'll knock over other stuff, and I don't even have to tell them that I did that.
00:42:02.646 --> 00:42:03.603
They don't know.
00:42:03.603 --> 00:42:04.487
That was my plan.
00:42:05.900 --> 00:42:12.728
So what you're saying, nick, is that it's a holistic approach, it's not a one-size-fits-all solution.
00:42:12.728 --> 00:42:17.949
Absolutely not, and that's exactly what this podcast is all about.
00:42:20.141 --> 00:42:21.588
Yeah, I mean, I think I like your philosophy.
00:42:22.780 --> 00:42:31.452
Yeah, you're going to do a real disservice to the student as a teacher if you throw them in the same in the same methodology.
00:42:31.452 --> 00:42:34.826
That'd be, that would be.
00:42:34.826 --> 00:42:36.150
That'd be bad.
00:42:36.150 --> 00:42:42.925
That would be bad, especially if the methodology is is being taught to somebody.
00:42:42.925 --> 00:42:47.601
I love what you said, nick, about you know, checking one's mobility.
00:42:47.601 --> 00:42:57.704
If you're trying to get somebody to make a huge shoulder turn and they're 60 years of age and they've been at a desk for 40 years or 35 years or whatever, it's going to be hard for them to do that.
00:42:57.704 --> 00:43:01.851
So I really like this conversation.
00:43:01.911 --> 00:43:03.282
Boys, this is good stuff here.
00:43:03.282 --> 00:43:11.672
Hopefully the folks that have emailed me, hopefully this answers some of your questions too, you know, and I do think that.
00:43:11.672 --> 00:43:16.753
So let me get this answers some of your questions too, and I do think that.
00:43:16.753 --> 00:43:17.798
So let me ask you guys a question.
00:43:17.798 --> 00:43:27.019
What if there is, let's say, the let's throw this in there this hypothetical question you got a 45-year-old male who is a professional, has an office job.
00:43:27.019 --> 00:43:40.704
Just say, for example, he's an attorney and he's at a desk, he's got some athleticism, he's an eight, nine handicap, he's a member at a private club, he's got a couple kids, wife, uh, and, and he it's.
00:43:40.704 --> 00:43:47.822
It's really part of his life's passion to get down to a scratch um.
00:43:47.822 --> 00:43:56.324
What do you guys think that person like what kind of questions can he ask when he's interviewing coaches?
00:43:56.324 --> 00:43:58.670
Like what if you're?
00:43:58.670 --> 00:44:00.840
If you're, what kind of questions would you like?
00:44:00.860 --> 00:44:01.702
that's a great question.
00:44:01.702 --> 00:44:02.704
Yeah, I mean what?
00:44:02.764 --> 00:44:03.766
what questions?
00:44:03.806 --> 00:44:16.054
would you go ahead when it comes to and this this often is a question from parents who say I need to hire a golf coach, but I myself game that well.
00:44:16.054 --> 00:44:21.291
So what do I ask to determine if someone's good at coaching?
00:44:21.291 --> 00:44:26.891
And you know, a lot of it does come down to old fashioned social proof.
00:44:26.891 --> 00:44:30.434
It's like who have you taught?
00:44:30.434 --> 00:44:52.789
Have you uh tell like at a time that you brought, what has been your approach and have you had success in doing that, without actually tell me about your track record in helping someone like me?
00:44:52.789 --> 00:44:58.592
And I find that there are characteristics of golfers.
00:44:58.592 --> 00:45:22.956
You know, I mean, justin, they're probably drawn to your material because you do have a lot of technical stuff, so let's say, the engineering type, or maybe a lot of people in in medicine or in finance who are, if the player likes that, I think they got.
00:45:22.956 --> 00:45:43.983
A coach pays attention to that kind of stuff, like collecting stats or analyzing their game to really figure out where are they weakest, and so I would be asking how, how does the coach look at stats and and determine if we're on track?
00:45:43.983 --> 00:45:45.324
Am I getting better?
00:45:45.324 --> 00:45:46.806
Because score, I don't.
00:45:46.806 --> 00:46:10.313
I don't think score always tells you, especially in the short term, whether you're making good changes, because I get a lot of heat for this, but I think a lot of times you start hitting your irons better, you will start hitting more long, and out here in California, if you're long on most courses it's bad news.
00:46:10.313 --> 00:46:22.329
I mean you're going to I would rather be 10 yards short than 10 yards long on almost every hole that I play out here so you could, by collecting more information.
00:46:22.329 --> 00:46:39.235
I think if someone's really serious about it, it comes down to really knowing, like, what happened on each shot when, as opposed to just is my handicap going up or down, and being able to look at things like stroke.
00:46:39.860 --> 00:46:56.231
I think is if the golfer is into that kind of thing, you know they they might come from it with no interest at all and they really hate technical information and they need to be matched up with a coach, in my opinion, who's more similar to them.
00:46:56.231 --> 00:47:01.231
You wouldn't put Bubba Watson, probably with Sean Ford.
00:47:01.231 --> 00:47:17.588
I think you've got to have a bit of a personality match and understand how much information is too much for this person and if you're the golfer, you don't like that level of detail.
00:47:17.588 --> 00:47:26.233
You probably shouldn't be getting a coach who has all kinds of certifications and is really into all the tools that they've invested in.
00:47:26.233 --> 00:47:28.103
You know there's um you.
00:47:28.103 --> 00:47:37.909
You must see that just in terms of like the spectrum of different type of pros I think I think I'm a parent myself of two girls.
00:47:38.532 --> 00:47:49.389
If I were to get them to take long-term coaching, for whatever activity, I think first the most important thing for me is what's the character of the teacher?
00:47:49.389 --> 00:47:59.740
I, I don't need my girls going to take lessons from an a-hole, because think about this, right, do you want this person to raise your kid?
00:47:59.740 --> 00:48:04.862
Because essentially that's what they're doing for you, especially talking about long-term coaching.
00:48:04.862 --> 00:48:06.626
So that's a.
00:48:06.626 --> 00:48:12.384
For me, that's the most important thing, and then after that we can worry about the technicalities of it.
00:48:12.384 --> 00:48:16.072
This is where I defer a little bit uh from you, nick.
00:48:16.072 --> 00:48:17.034
I think it's.
00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:21.268
The onus is on parents to do research on their own.
00:48:21.268 --> 00:48:31.034
They can't just like outsource the whole process to coaches and say, hey, look, it's yours, you, you need to know a little bit of what you're getting yourself into.
00:48:31.034 --> 00:48:34.543
I think a lot of parents discover that a little bit too late.
00:48:34.543 --> 00:48:45.809
Now I'm not saying that, hey, you're going to be a golf swing expert, but I think you need to be reasonably updated on what's going on, and it's not difficult to find out information.
00:48:45.809 --> 00:48:56.990
It's kind of the same thing, right, when you go ask an investment professional financial advisor should I buy nvidia like that's a loaded question, man you need you.
00:48:57.150 --> 00:49:08.666
You need to, you need to do your own research first before you go ask or discuss that issue and it I feel if you're trying to groom your kid to be a decent golfer, that's the basic thing you need to do.
00:49:08.666 --> 00:49:11.996
I think if you're trying to groom your kid to be a decent golfer, that's the basic thing you need to do.
00:49:11.996 --> 00:49:27.271
I think if you, if a parent goes, speak to a few golf coaches, send emails, golf coaches generally will respond, generally, if it's, if you're not going too deep in the weeds.
00:49:27.271 --> 00:49:35.347
If a parent goes and sends like 10 golf coaches on Instagram, youtube, hey, what should I look for in a good coach?
00:49:35.347 --> 00:49:38.969
Maybe this is the topic for another podcast interview.
00:49:38.969 --> 00:49:44.786
I think generally they will come back with a few pointers and that's where you start.
00:49:47.701 --> 00:49:51.652
Yeah, when you say the information's out there.
00:49:51.652 --> 00:49:52.775
There's no doubt.
00:49:52.775 --> 00:49:53.438
I think that's.
00:49:53.438 --> 00:50:08.550
The problem, though, is there's so much information and it's very hard for people to filter it and know, and sometimes absorbing more info is not helpful, but it actually just makes you unable to make a decision.
00:50:08.550 --> 00:50:19.751
Or, in the case of people absorbing swing information for themselves, at a certain point you feel like I don't even know what to do now.
00:50:19.751 --> 00:50:22.869
I just watched two hours of YouTube videos.
00:50:25.385 --> 00:50:27.271
Let me distill that a little bit.
00:50:27.271 --> 00:50:29.228
Sure, there's a lot of information.
00:50:29.228 --> 00:50:35.788
You've got broad buckets like technology, you've got the mental game, and then you've got the full swing technique.
00:50:35.788 --> 00:50:43.827
And then I think the key thing that most golf coaches are deficient in is the art of communication.
00:50:43.827 --> 00:50:52.251
And that's the first thing that parents have to ask, assuming that this guy knows about golf swing technique, has social proof.
00:50:52.251 --> 00:50:58.228
And then it's about how do you communicate with kids of various ages.
00:50:58.228 --> 00:51:12.128
And you can see right, as an adult, when you speak to a golf coach, if he can't explain his philosophy in a paragraph, he probably doesn't really have a system of organizing information.
00:51:12.128 --> 00:51:15.804
But if I say, hey, nick, what do you do for a living?
00:51:15.804 --> 00:51:19.864
One, two sentences, in a nutshell, your elevator pitch.
00:51:19.864 --> 00:51:23.951
It shows me that you have thought about these things.
00:51:23.951 --> 00:51:27.547
I'm an investment professional.
00:51:28.440 --> 00:51:32.271
I would recommend you invest in Nvidia because of one, two, three.
00:51:32.271 --> 00:51:38.485
If your financial circumstances are X, y, z, I think that's a good start.
00:51:41.231 --> 00:51:42.012
Yeah, it's a tough one.
00:51:42.012 --> 00:51:48.172
Cause the prices, and is it overvalued, then that's the next oh yeah.
00:51:48.172 --> 00:51:51.509
And it's like well, no one knows, Correct.
00:51:52.724 --> 00:51:59.731
So I think it's asking the right questions to begin this web of questions, right?
00:51:59.731 --> 00:52:04.365
And I think, well, for the parents out there, the key thing is this, right?
00:52:04.365 --> 00:52:16.509
Maybe to ask the instructor is this right, do you have a short-term, what's your long-term strategy and what's the short-term tactic to get to that long-term strategy?
00:52:16.509 --> 00:52:31.530
And I think you want to hear the coach say hey, I've got a five-year, seven-year, 10-year plan for your kid, because he's five now and in a couple years, 10 years time, he's going to be at the peak of puberty.
00:52:31.530 --> 00:52:34.802
His anatomical proportions are going to change.
00:52:34.862 --> 00:52:47.940
So the swing is not going to be fixed in stone, but at the same time we're going to work on short game, we're going to work on this and that ball striking, because all these things are critical to getting the ball in the hole and the lowest number of strokes.
00:52:47.940 --> 00:52:50.427
So it's again, again, holistic.
00:52:50.427 --> 00:52:51.570
It can't be simplified.
00:52:51.570 --> 00:52:55.570
It can be made simple, but it cannot be simplified.
00:52:55.570 --> 00:53:01.786
And that's the thing with most issues in life how do I get rich in the stock market?
00:53:01.786 --> 00:53:04.288
It's not a one-size-fits-all answer.
00:53:06.340 --> 00:53:13.788
Yeah, I mean, if you caught me on a different day and you said, how do you interview a coach, I might just say, look, it's just an art form.
00:53:14.099 --> 00:53:17.639
I don't even there's no good set of questions.
00:53:17.639 --> 00:53:24.733
You just start talking to them and hope to gain an understanding of do they check all those boxes?
00:53:24.733 --> 00:53:44.228
Do they seem to have good character from the conversation, seem to have good character from from the conversation, and do I believe that they would, that they have ideas that are organized, but I would say very few golf pros have put much thought into like exactly their messaging.
00:53:44.228 --> 00:54:01.753
Uh, now that many of them have websites and so that might have been the first time that they had to put into words what they believe or how they teach, and a lot of times it's just extremely vague information on there that you couldn't really distinguish them from anybody else.
00:54:01.753 --> 00:54:18.759
World where most pros would rather just get a chance to talk to the parent and, uh, just kind of let it flow naturally and hope that they, they kind of hit it off and have some rapport.
00:54:18.759 --> 00:54:26.315
That's really the what the pro, the pros who can build rapport quickly, do well in the business exactly.
00:54:26.375 --> 00:54:29.947
So goes back to what randy smith again guy in front of you.
00:54:39.579 --> 00:54:40.041
Yeah, building rapport.
00:54:40.041 --> 00:54:40.822
I think a key in sales.
00:54:40.822 --> 00:54:51.681
It's like don't make the false assumption about a person without really hearing that like really listen to them, because if you don't, you might tell them something that you think that they would find important but they actually don't.
00:54:51.681 --> 00:55:14.563
And so you're like kind of barking up the wrong tree with them, or you're you're coaching scotty scheffler in a first lesson and his parents are sitting there and you're trying to tell him like that his feet should not move at all, and and you're, um, you're automatically showing that you're kind of like have a method, I think.
00:55:14.563 --> 00:55:25.967
I think a lot of parents are wary of cookie cutter method instruction at this point we're coming up on the hour mark nick.
00:55:27.068 --> 00:55:27.588
What are some?
00:55:27.588 --> 00:55:33.456
Who are some of the marquee names that have presented at Open Forum?
00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:43.300
Well, I would say, going back to the first real event that we had was the second Open Forum, because we had speakers.
00:55:43.300 --> 00:55:48.648
So we were heavy biomechanics for that one, biomechanics for that one.
00:55:48.648 --> 00:56:04.202
So we had Dr Rob Neal, dr Mike Duffy, dr Phil Cheatham and Sasho McKenzie went last.
00:56:04.202 --> 00:56:06.545
So that was kind of our first time where we had a program and then we had these two panels.
00:56:06.545 --> 00:56:07.288
They were way too big.
00:56:07.288 --> 00:56:19.672
I think I had 11 guys on the first panel and I have actually, because I found that video recently, I think I have them in front of me.
00:56:19.672 --> 00:56:45.831
It was tyler farrell, frederick tuxon, scott cowks, rob holding, brady riggs, andrew rice, sasha was up there, uh, ea, tishler, that was one panel at open forum too.
00:56:45.831 --> 00:56:47.914
Then we we had one at open forum six.
00:56:47.914 --> 00:56:51.340
I think you've seen those videos yeah we had brandon chamblee.
00:56:51.420 --> 00:56:56.751
Ledbetter was on there oh, that was good man, that one was excellent grant weight.
00:56:57.431 --> 00:57:05.592
Brad faxon uh butch, uh, butch harman, the third, it was on that one.
00:57:05.592 --> 00:57:11.146
So you know we we've had a lot of the biomechanics present where they weren't really that well known.
00:57:11.146 --> 00:57:34.648
Like dr kwan, presented at open forum three just about 10 years ago uh, this was right when chris was starting work with tiger woods and like a lot was seeming to be developing to kind of elevate instruction and I felt like it was a pivotal time there and a lot of people had never seen Kwan present.
00:57:34.648 --> 00:57:51.367
And then now, years later, there's a lot have have gone and studied and done advanced stuff with Kwan and in golf biomechanics We've had Scott Lynn from swing catalyst.
00:57:51.407 --> 00:58:10.690
So so to me like a big name, maybe a different version than a typical person, because a lot of people to them like when I'm at the PGA show I don't pay attention to the tour pros, I walk right by them and I'll go shake hands with a teacher that I like or a PhD.
00:58:10.690 --> 00:58:16.543
So I'm not really I don't really think in terms of like the famous guys.
00:58:16.543 --> 00:58:38.170
It's more like the people who are really deep into golf swing instruction and science in a way that's probably excessive for almost everybody else, like I would not want anyone to learn at the level of detail that I have, and I wouldn't even say it's helped me in my own game very much.
00:58:38.170 --> 00:58:42.780
In fact it's probably hurting me, to be honest, it's, but it's more for the information.
00:58:42.780 --> 00:58:45.840
It's just, it never ends Like.
00:58:45.840 --> 00:59:01.106
I wake up every day and I just kind of obsessed over golf, golf instruction and especially the full swing well, you're meant to be an evangelist for the game that's right, I think I.
00:59:01.467 --> 00:59:21.356
I I'm an evangelist over the idea of improvement and I'm a realist of I know how hard it actually is, so I have tremendous respect for golf teachers who have the patience to spend like an entire day trying to make people better, which I can never have the patience to do.
00:59:21.356 --> 00:59:35.054
You guys have to develop a coaching method that can be sustained over many, many years, and so that's for your own mental health you have to figure that out.
00:59:35.621 --> 00:59:39.711
My method changes all the time depending on who's in front of me.
00:59:39.711 --> 00:59:49.193
Man, yeah, but I always defer to getting the guy's confidence.
00:59:49.193 --> 00:59:58.550
If he's slicing the hell out of the ball, I'm going to make him hook it, get the buy-in and then say, hey guy, we've got the ball flight sorted out.
00:59:58.550 --> 01:00:05.106
But in the midterm, these are what you've got to work on Mobility, for example, change that shitty grip.
01:00:05.106 --> 01:00:14.425
Maybe you've got to change equipment shaft's too heavy, too light, too flexible, whatever the case may be.
01:00:14.425 --> 01:00:22.322
So last question for for me, nick what's the biggest lesson you've taken away from all this time in open forum?
01:00:22.322 --> 01:00:26.047
What's the one big lesson that you've taken away?
01:00:29.010 --> 01:00:30.431
and put me on the spot.
01:00:30.431 --> 01:01:07.150
Um, if I had to think of it in terms of and I hate to get in the weeds on a question like that, but it would probably be just understanding in a golf swing, like how important it is for the, the lead side of the body to be able to create some stability for the person to be able to push off of and swing around, um, and so a lot of that is just coming from that lead foot and the way it interacts with the ground and how you use that with the rest of your body.
01:01:07.150 --> 01:01:38.369
Uh, I'm still kind of trying to figure out how to do that as a player, but I found, like learning, that it makes a lot of the other stuff that you see in terms of motion makes sense when you see the ultimate goal of, like why people are like spiking that vertical ground reaction force vector with that lead foot early in the downswing, what it does, what it allows you to do.
01:01:38.369 --> 01:01:44.907
Probably not your typical answer, but that's my answer.
01:01:46.391 --> 01:01:46.873
No, that's true.
01:01:46.873 --> 01:01:52.483
I think a lot of golfers are weak on the lead side, given that it's their non-don, generally not.
01:01:52.483 --> 01:01:54.547
They're not not their dominant side.
01:01:54.547 --> 01:01:56.072
So it makes a lot of sense.
01:01:56.072 --> 01:02:13.255
And high level golfers, over the years I've noticed that their lead side tends to be bigger, more developed than the trail side so big lesson there yeah, I consider it gives you permission to rotate hard.
01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:17.746
If you don't have that pressure on the lead side, you can't really rotate.
01:02:19.820 --> 01:02:24.329
And it's hard to hit solid shots off of your trail.
01:02:24.329 --> 01:02:29.210
Foot, trail side Can be done, but very, very rare.
01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:43.768
Yeah, and a lot of times it looks like a moment where their left foot is completely off the ground and then maybe, maybe they finish heavily on the trails.
01:02:43.768 --> 01:03:10.751
So the assumption is, oh, they're, they're like a trail side player, but they were so hard on their lead side it launched them into the air on that side, and so it gives a lot of people the wrong impression, like that there's golfers out there not using their trail side all that much, which I don't think there's any player who, unless you have no front leg at all, you're gonna gonna post into that and use that as the basis of the whole swing.
01:03:12.934 --> 01:03:13.235
Indeed.
01:03:13.235 --> 01:03:15.869
Where can our listeners find out more about Open Forum?
01:03:15.869 --> 01:03:17.565
Openforumgolfcom.