00:00:00Exploring Careers in Graphic Design
00:09:01Exploring Creative Career Paths
00:24:44Careers and Creativity in Graphic Design
00:30:01Graphic Design Software Comparison
00:43:47Tips for Aspiring Graphic Designers
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Ever wondered how your passion for visual communication could unlock an array of career opportunities? Join us on this week's episode of Digital Wrap-Up, as we take you on an immersive exploration into the dynamic world of graphic design careers. Learn how traditional roles like brochure and social media graphic design can be gateways to specialized fields such as apparel design, video game animation, and even tattoo artistry. We promise you'll gain practical insights into how a foundation in graphic design can seamlessly integrate with various interests, paving the way for a versatile and fulfilling career.
We share personal anecdotes that highlight the unexpected career trajectories in the creative industry. Listen as we recount stories of how an initial interest in advertising evolved into a love for publication design and booklets, all while emphasizing the importance of mastering fundamental design principles and using accessible tools like Canva. Discover the challenges and rewards of art education, the value of collaboration, and the beauty of learning from diverse creative perspectives. This episode is packed with real-world advice and encouragement for anyone looking to navigate the subjective world of art and design.
Our conversation also ventures into the intersection of art and business, particularly through the lens of startups and small business branding. Uncover how creative skills from a graphic design background can be instrumental in various industries, from social media content creation to product design. We tackle the myth that careers in the arts aren't lucrative, highlighting the multifaceted nature of success and the importance of continuous learning. Plus, get a rundown of essential software tools, and hear tips for aspiring designers on building a portfolio, embracing continuous learning, and ultimately, turning your creative passions into a thriving career.
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Speaker 1:
0:00
If you've ever thought about getting into the graphic design industry, you'll want to tune into this episode. I have Kayleon, who's our graphic designer, and we talk about everything from what classes you should be taking, what courses you should be taking online, do you need to go to school for it, what programs can you be learning, and also just what industry or what careers there are for graphic designers. It's not always just sitting at a computer and designing brochures or magazines. There's so many different fields that you can get into with a graphic design background, and we break that all down in this week's episode of of Digital Wrap-Up. My name is Riley and I'm the host, and I'm the CEO of Hardin Digital and Design, happy to be joined today by my co-host. I'm going to start calling her that because she's on pretty much every episode now.
Speaker 1:
1:17
But, kaylee, welcome back. Hey, thanks, excited to be back. We had a little mishap in the last episode which you will never hear because it didn't record correctly. I had some mic issues, but we're excited to be back. We have a very fun at least fun to us campaign for the month of June are going to be highlighting a specific topic or industry within what we do here at Harden Digital and Design and breaking it down for anybody who has an interest in that field or industry as well.
Speaker 1:
1:53
So we're starting with graphic design. Today we're going to talk about common interests or shared interests that lead to people being a graphic designer what classes you should take, what programs you should learn, what other actual careers are there for graphic designers besides doing what Kaylee does and working in-house or working for an agency? And then over the next coming weeks we're going to talk about social media managers and content creators. And then you know website development, website designers, so a lot of this you know, school just let out for the summer, so kind of career advice or career tips for people looking to get into what we do here at Hardin Digital and Design. So we're going to start with graphic design. I think where we're going to go first is talking about all the different career opportunities that there are for people interested in graphic design. So, kaylee, what are some of the more common careers that you see graphic designers get into, besides just the? You know I sit at a desk and design brochures or graphics for social media.
Speaker 2:
3:02
I made kind of a short list, just this off the top of my head. I'm sure there are thousands of things you could go into, but I put apparel design, video game design, tattooing, animation of any kind advertising, which is kind of the route I went. You could go into architecture if you feel like it, um, and then photography and videography kind of fits right in with what we do, but people do that just in itself. Yeah, that's my short list. I know there are so many more I probably don't even know. These are just ones that I might have had interest in at some point or you know somebody who's doing it?
Speaker 2:
3:47
Yeah, you know somebody, or there's so much you could do with it, yeah.
Speaker 1:
3:53
So what is like all of those? Obviously related to graphic design, but is it really just kind of having an interest or being creative, thinking creatively about how things come together? Is that kind of the shared interest or shared skill set among those?
Speaker 2:
4:14
Yes, that's actually a really good way to put it. Technically, what they call it in school is visual communication design, so it's all about how to communicate the message visually, whatever your message is.
Speaker 1:
4:32
Yeah, and that's where the different careers come in. Is that message changes? Yes, so how are you communicating that? Yes, whether it's a video game. The message is animating, characters and stories and plots, and all that, whereas A tattoo is the same.
Speaker 2:
4:50
I mean, it's the same thing.
Speaker 1:
4:52
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
4:52
You're trying to evoke something with your art.
Speaker 1:
4:56
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
4:57
So it's just the most creative way to tell a story, or?
Speaker 1:
5:04
Yeah, get your point. That makes sense and I think you kind of mentioned this. But graphic design, obviously you have to be, have an interest in, you know designing and putting things together, telling a visual story. But it can be, can be combined with your interest for other things, right, like if you want to be a teacher or you love tattoos. Like graphic design is kind of the thing that connects you, but then you spin it off to whatever you're interested in right or whatever you're good at.
Speaker 2:
5:42
Yeah, like the kid I went to school with who was fantastic at math, he wanted to be an architect, but he wanted to have an art background before going to school for architecture, which I think is fascinating, so that you can create buildings that are beautiful, like, yeah, that's a super kind of one-off. I don't know a lot of people who probably do that, but I think that was cool.
Speaker 1:
6:14
Um, if you're great at drawing, that translates to the tattoo side of things yeah, or animation or whatever.
Speaker 2:
6:26
If you're good with computers and software design, you can design apps. You can design websites. Yeah, you can like. Most of what I do is on the computer as well. I wouldn't say I'm even remotely close to like a computer whiz, like not not even close. Yeah, but I don't sit and hand draw everything every day, so you do have to have some kind of computer understanding.
Speaker 2:
6:55
I can't actually draw very well in real life. Same. So you'd think with the amount of art classes I've taken and, you know, having a whole degree well, that just goes to show.
Speaker 1:
7:09
Like you you don't necessarily have to even be able to do that know how to draw not that you don't know how, you're just not good at it but like, put you in front of a computer and you can create some of the the best stuff I've ever seen from any graphic designer ever. But if you were to go try and draw somebody or tattoo somebody like it'd be a whole different story like yeah but you take a tattoo artist and try and have them not saying like as a whole.
Speaker 1:
7:41
Every tattoo artist is bad at doing something on computer by any means, but like the same, it's just a specialty.
Speaker 2:
7:47
everything in graphic design, I feel like everybody has their specialty, um, but that I. I guess that goes to show that, like, you shouldn't get scared away if you're not good at something, because there might be another avenue that you're just better at. Yeah, like, I like photography. I'm not the best at it. I'm not really the best at one particular thing. In general, I don't think, um, I've just always been creative and this is how I chose to take my life with that.
Speaker 1:
8:24
Yeah, like so, like, what would you say for somebody who's feels creative and thinks they're creative and say, okay, I'm creative, so I wanted to give graphic design a try. But then they started trying to design graphics or different things, like using Canva. Would you basically just like is there anything you would tell them? Like, just explore different avenues, try different things out until you kind of find what that specialty is?
Speaker 2:
8:59
Yes, I think so. I wouldn't have known, like straight out of high school, that designing publications and like multiple page booklets was going to be what I was good at. That wasn't. That wasn't even the direction I thought I was going to take when I went to college, like I wanted to go into advertising and work at a big ad agency, like that was my plan. Yeah, that ended up partially happening. I guess that that's what I studied. Like I had different minors in business and advertising because that was what I was interested in. Yeah, so that makes sense.
Speaker 2:
9:41
It's also a lot of once you know the basics of design or art or Just design concepts, yeah design concepts, like I had an entire class where it's just like learning the basics about colors and theories and the history of art. You can get to that point where you understand the basics. You can do pretty much any of these careers, yeah and like with technology and everything today.
Speaker 1:
10:10
Well, you don't even need technology for everything but like. If you wanted to explore the I don't lack of better terms graphic side of things, you can jump on canva for free. If you want to explore the drawing side of things, obviously you don't have to pay for software to pick up pencil and paper, colored pencils, whatever paintbrush there's apps on your iPad. Even so, there's so many different ways to explore and narrow down specifically what you're good at or what you like the most. Narrow down specifically what you're good at or what you like the most, taking those creative skills and that creative thinking and applying it to whichever specialty it is. I don't know about the animation side of things or video game design.
Speaker 2:
10:55
That might take a little more specialty software, but for the most part, you could probably narrow down and find what you really like the best yeah, and a lot of people, especially the people who can draw, like who can really, really draw you're usually good at that from the get-go and that's the kind of thing like I was always jealous the people who could do that. It was fascinating. But then those people would come to me with questions about projects we were doing in InDesign, because the software that we were using wasn't like clicking for them, so like they had different skills then you have people like me that none of it clicks yesterday you trying to draw lines was cracking me up, yeah.
Speaker 1:
11:42
I had to design something from scratch and end design which I wouldn't even say. I started with a blank canvas but I wouldn't consider it from scratch because I was basing it off of a different report that I was looking at while I was also designing something, something so like if you give me that, if you give me a starting point and say duplicate this or copy this, I can generally try and figure it out, like visually, trying to conceptualize how to put stuff together. No, not good at it, not good at the software. I could probably. I know the software, I took classes for it in college and I can eventually figure it out.
Speaker 2:
12:27
But the tips and tricks and shortcuts and doing all this other stuff, yeah, it was very funny to watch yeah, but I ask you stupid questions about facebook all the time or whatever programs I'm trying to use that I don't know anything about.
Speaker 1:
12:46
Yeah, so on the flip side, Kaylee trying to use CapCut to create TikToks and Instagram reels it's been a disaster. I would say that's worse than my design skills.
Speaker 2:
12:59
Yeah, but you have some training. But, see you had to take classes for graphic design, which that wasn't even your area of study.
Speaker 1:
13:10
Yeah, really no, it might have changed right after I left too, because I put up such a fight. I almost failed it, if that tells you my skills. But I think that's a and it's a very hot topic for me because the graphic design teacher.
Speaker 1:
13:32
You know they give you a rubric, say this is what you need to do. I followed the rubric. I technically did what I was supposed to do, but it wasn't creative enough, or the professor didn't like it, or it wasn't up to her creativity, or like she just didn't like my design versus the more creative people in the class right, which it's very subjective.
Speaker 1:
13:56
It was very subjective and this was, you know, senior year, second semester. I have to pass this class or I don't graduate. And I had a d pretty much the entire semester because she would just give me a D on everything. Even though I followed the rubric to a T. I had all everything in there I had. I like I didn't miss anything. It's just she didn't like my design. So yeah, like that's not necessarily my fault.
Speaker 1:
14:25
It's like I followed the rubric. I just don't have that ability to Visualize and put that into a design.
Speaker 2:
14:33
yeah that's one thing about the art world is you kind of have to learn to take criticism. That's what I learned in college, because people are going to tell you first of all if they don't like something, but also like one person could love it and the next person could hate it, like you're saying. But to be graded on that, I think, is crazy.
Speaker 1:
14:54
Yeah, like I understand, you don't like it.
Speaker 2:
14:58
But is it done correctly you?
Speaker 1:
14:59
telling me you don't like it or I need to do it differently is not going to change my ability to create something else, because I just physically, mentally, don't have that capacity to do it. So, yeah, just you giving me a bad grade or telling me I need to start over. Well, that was the best I could do. I'm not gonna just randomly think of new things unless I look at somebody else's or have somebody else help me.
Speaker 2:
15:24
Yeah, so there were a lot of times that I loved doing art critiques in classes, because sometimes it's nice to see things through other people's eyes, Like I would have never thought of that, because I don't see it like that. That's kind of one of the cool parts I think about advertising. Everybody's going to see it differently it differently.
Speaker 1:
15:52
Yeah, like that was cool in my class too, but that doesn't mean that I like. Getting those ideas or seeing other people's designs didn't help me for future stuff because, like everything I saw was cool for that specific thing, but I can't translate that into another project, right?
Speaker 1:
16:05
so, um, yeah, but like on the flip, I had my photography and videography professor. He was the complete opposite, where he understood that not everybody's going to be a photography major or videography major or video production major, whatever it is but I did the assignments, I applied everything on the rubric or everything that we needed to do. Did I have the most creative photos or the most creative edits? No, but I did what I was told and I'd not necessarily gotten an A on every project, but I didn't get C's and D's on everything. So, like he understood that I applied what I learned on the technical side of things Right. Like I learned how to use a camera, I learned how to use the software. But just because I don't have that creative mindset to make the coolest photo, I was the same way.
Speaker 1:
17:08
He didn't dock me points for it and almost fail me for graduating.
Speaker 2:
17:13
I was the same. I had to take so many 3d art classes and like sculpture for me just doesn't click. I can think of it in my head but then actually making happen what I want never worked. But I didn't get docked because it looked bad, like, yeah, like you said, I finished the assignment I I had a thought of what it should look like and then it just usually never came out how I wanted it to. But that's just not my thing. Am I ever going to do a sculpture in real life? Probably not, so that a lot of the art classes that I took won't apply. I took a class on how to make jewelry.
Speaker 2:
18:02
I've taken painting classes and multiple drawing classes and all there were so many options, and this was just at my one school, which probably didn't even have that large of an art department, like, and I went to a liberal arts university, like I didn't even go just to an art school, which would have been really cool, I'm sure. Yeah, but like then you're immersed in it.
Speaker 1:
18:33
Yeah, that you live and breathe you don't take math and science classes and philosophy classes for two years right.
Speaker 2:
18:42
So would I have learned something different and maybe had a different interest if I would have gone just to an art school?
Speaker 1:
18:51
maybe potentially.
Speaker 2:
18:53
I would have loved to go to Heron like, or Savannah, like. There are so many art schools you could go to. I also didn't think in high school that I had the portfolio to be able to get into that.
Speaker 1:
19:11
Like if Did you take a lot of art classes in high school.
Speaker 2:
19:14
I did Everything that was offered. Oh, I took some of them multiple times. They don't really have like painting too, but you can just retake painting if you want to.
Speaker 1:
19:30
I took art history.
Speaker 2:
19:31
But also when I was a senior.
Speaker 2:
19:36
That was the very first year they actually had visual communication as a class in high school in high school like they bought new computers, for it was the very first year they ever did any kind of art class on computers, so that was brand new. As a brand new teacher, it was a brand new like curriculum thank you, I could not think of that word to save my life. Um, and I think it was kind of a learning experience for everyone involved. But that's kind of like I knew I wanted to do something with art, but that is what did it for me. I remember learning Photoshop for the first time, also not one of the programs I am great at. I feel like all I'm doing is telling everybody that I'm really not good at my job.
Speaker 1:
20:26
But everybody who has seen your work would disagree, I hope. But everybody who has seen your work would disagree, so I hope. Um, so we've talked a lot about college and classes. What other, and even in high school, what other classes would you encourage people to take if they have the ability to like? For me, okay, so I took art history in high school art history yeah, wow, I don't know if that really translates.
Speaker 1:
20:55
For me. It was interesting because I'm like, I like history, so I saw more of the history side versus learning about art concepts.
Speaker 2:
21:04
Yeah, and why things were done is more so and I would have loved art history if I didn't have to remember all those dates and could just learn about the history of the art. Yeah, but it's useful to know the background of things. I think I had a professor once tell me like, if you know the rules, that's when you can break them. Tell me like, if you know the rules, that's when you can break them. So if you want to design things that are groundbreaking or new or whatever, you still have to know the basic principles. So some of those classes, probably even things like I took an archaeology class in college. There was more art in that class than probably anything else that we learned, but that was fascinating. That's like not particularly relevant, but it ended up being really cool for me. I don't know in high school if there was anything. I don't know what they offer at different places nowadays I.
Speaker 1:
22:07
But like the visual communications, that's probably a good one. I'm assuming there's probably those classes. A lot of schools have production studios now and I know like video editing and stuff. Like we had announcements in high school like that class and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:
22:26
I'm sure there's editing that's going on there and I took photography classes before everything was digital. So like I took a whole class on film photography, which was one of the coolest experiences like having a dark room and getting to actually develop your own film, which now I don't even know if you can do that like there. That's one of those things. If you're really into like producing good art, doing film photography is really cool. Yeah, we made our own little pinhole cameras like the original camera.
Speaker 1:
23:09
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
23:10
There was just a lot. And then I also took digital photography classes, which is you'd think it's both photography, but that's a whole different universe.
Speaker 1:
23:21
That's what I took in college, yeah. So I think moral of the story is if you have the ability to, especially in high school, which I don't know how many high schoolers are listening to- this but if you know, if you have a kid that's interested and you don't know, like, encourage them to take as many of these different creative arts I guess they're all kind of creative arts, yeah classes so that they can maybe explore what they want to specialize in before they even go to college.
Speaker 2:
23:56
And I could rant to you forever. I'm not going to because this podcast would be three hours long. But a lot of people see the arts in general as not a good career path and sometimes like the whole starving artist thing. Yeah, sometimes, depending on what you go into, there may not be a lot of money making opportunities. But that doesn't mean that all art classes are useless or that anything like, especially in performing arts or just art in general. I guess there are things that you can do to make a career out of that. Yeah, that's, I guess that's. Our whole point here is like I loved art. I also like the business side of things, so we do a lot of startups and small business branding. Like that's how I compare two things that I like together. I don't even remember what the question was or what, how I got off track because I got on a little rant. But a lot of people are like, oh, you're never going to make money doing art and that's not true to so many things.
Speaker 1:
25:17
Yeah, like I'm thinking somebody went to school for graph design or visual arts or whatever you want to call it. Put them into our agency, where they're creating content, where they're like I would trust the designer, once they learn the software, to create all of our reels and tiktoks. And like, because they have that creative thinking behind it where, once they get the technology down, they would apply all this other stuff that could translate into great videos without you know having to learn cameras, like you're doing it all on your phone, but they know the concepts of what shots and what right, what things to include and spacing, and list goes on and on. Like, and people are obsessed with becoming influencers and video like creating videos for tiktok and instagram. Like that could easily just as easily come from a graphic designer as it could from anybody else.
Speaker 2:
26:21
So I think there's just so many different avenues and a lot of it is stuff people don't even think about, like where you're different, like you're a shoe guy, right, somebody designed those shoes yeah somebody probably went to art school to design those shoes.
Speaker 2:
26:40
Somebody who decides what paint scheme is going to go on a new Harley Like somebody went to art school for that, somebody, all of these things that people are like I don't think it crosses their mind, but somebody creative was behind that. All of the movies you see. Like those people probably have some kind of creative arts background, like it's not completely useless. I've been told that a lot, so that one kind of rubs me the wrong way that like, yes, no, I didn't go and become an engineer.
Speaker 1:
27:28
Yeah, but that doesn't mean that my career is useless or it's just creative. Yeah, now you're part owner of a business and you have flexibility and creativity, freedom to do whatever you want whenever you want. Right, that's a win, like it's not always about. Oh, I make hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's success is different. That's a whole different topic. But yeah, like it's, but there's not a useless career path or useless industry to get into right because you could take it wherever you want it's almost like it's.
Speaker 2:
28:06
It's the first step, yeah, like I have a bachelor degree which is equal to a lot of other people, just in different industries. I don't know.
Speaker 1:
28:17
You don't have any people go get a bachelor's degree and then never apply it.
Speaker 2:
28:21
Right. It's just I think this is a good. Graphic design in general can go into so many different things, so if you're any kind of creative person, it would be worth looking into more, just to see where you can go after that. Yeah, it's also not something like I don't have to go get a master's in this to do my job.
Speaker 1:
28:49
True.
Speaker 2:
28:51
If you wanted to specialize in something, you could then go on after your bachelor's and.
Speaker 1:
28:59
But you don't even necessarily have to go back to school. You can just do master classes or intensive trainings in the specific programs that you're going to be using. Right means in the specific programs that you're going to be using, like right, a lot of that's free or very cheap to do versus spending another two or four years doing something.
Speaker 2:
29:16
I could also just sit and watch youtube for three days straight and learn. I learned more on youtube and tiktok and instagram about just about tricks on programs that I use.
Speaker 1:
29:32
Yep.
Speaker 2:
29:32
I learned how to make the coolest looking PowerPoints on Tik TOK. Who would have thought I don't like PowerPoint at all? I really, really don't, but there are some really cool things you can do with it, so I guess I'm gonna have to suck it up. There are some really cool things you can do with it.
Speaker 1:
29:50
So I guess I'm going to have to suck it up. So, speaking of PowerPoint, it's a good transition into we've talked about the careers, the classes, the interest. Going one step further. What are some of the different programs that people should start familiarizing themselves with or practicing in or get a free trial? Or maybe the software is just free in general? What are some of those programs to learn that would be beneficial for somebody looking to get into graphic design?
Speaker 2:
30:24
Canva. You can start on Canva. Canva is stressful to me because I've learned other programs first, so then canva just reacts differently. Yeah, um, but at least for the area of graphic design that I'm in, the things I use most are illustrator and indesign, both part of the adobe creative suite, both part of the adobe creative suite. Then the creative suite has like 60 different programs in it. Yeah, I don't even know what half of them are. I know they're one specifically for like web back-end web development and video editing and all sorts of stuff, so I don't even get into those kind of things.
Speaker 2:
31:13
I use Photoshop when I need to. I love Lightroom. That's a fun one If you're anything photography related. I don't even think I use Photoshop for photo editing at all anymore. Everything can be done in Lightroom. The amount of things you can do on there is mind-blowing. But I use InDesign more than anything else. For people who don't know, photoshop is for photos, illustrator is for vector graphics. Text illustrations in design is where you put it all together, so it's like the end product.
Speaker 2:
32:09
So yes you can put text over a photo in Photoshop, but should you Not really so? Indesign is where you should be putting all the pieces together. Then you will. If you need to make edits to this photo, you open it back up in Photoshop. Okay, but there are just certain things like. Each program is built for a specific purpose and InDesign is putting all the pieces together.
Speaker 1:
32:35
Makes sense. So, outside of the creative suite, obviously there's Canva. For the sake of conversation, what's the value, or perceived value that you have of why the creative suite, the creative cloud? Now, it's probably whatever. Whatever the value of the Adobe softwares versus Canva.
Speaker 2:
33:11
I mean honestly, Canva is very, very good I'm just clipping that that's the end of the podcast. Can I admitted it? Yeah, canva is useful. I just don't like it. Um, what was the question? Why would you choose what's?
Speaker 1:
33:29
the value of adobe software versus canva, like what do you? What's the added value that you get from illustrator versus canva?
Speaker 2:
33:43
I think it's a lot easier to do more custom. Like, I don't know if you can draw specifically in Canva. I don't know if you can edit the photos at the same quality that you can in Photoshop. Um, Canva is basically like InDesign. Um, you pick what size of thing you want and you put everything on there, and for the general population it's great. Now anybody can create their own graphics, which kind of hurts me a little bit.
Speaker 1:
34:27
But I think people notice the difference.
Speaker 2:
34:32
But I think people notice the difference. Yeah, I think people do, but I also think it makes people maybe appreciate what I do more. Because if you try it.
Speaker 1:
34:41
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
34:42
And you get frustrated because you're like why is this not looking like what I want?
Speaker 1:
34:47
Yeah, that makes sense. But like I think I could be just saying this because I'm in the industry and I recognize the type of stuff. But like I can tell what's designed in canva versus what a professional has done in adobe very easily. Like I see graphics on social media, I immediately know they're from canva.
Speaker 2:
35:11
Yeah, so if you don't have the skills, it's a very good option I'd agree um, or if that's how you get started, and then you're like, okay, well, I can't customize this like how I want it is very good for generic stuff like I.
Speaker 1:
35:32
I don't there's a place for having just graphics on social media. Sometimes you can't avoid it, sometimes you need it. But like even for, for instance, some of the stuff I've done for the city, where we place a photo in it but we have a banner up top that says you know, memorial Day, trash, delay or whatever it is Like for me that takes 30 seconds once it's all set up, versus trying to do that. Like Adobe is a little slower in terms of the export process and opening it up and everything, versus just opening a new tab in your browser right and hitting download. So like there is that side of value for it. Like I could easily have gone into illustrator and like there.
Speaker 2:
36:24
There just didn't seem a need to do that right for what I was doing it's also maybe the difference of creating one graphic versus like if I tried to design a multi-page anything in canva, I would rip my hair out. That is true, like I talked to people who do. They did their annual reports in their booklets in Canva and I just more power to you because I could not do that. I could design you a 48-page magazine in one day in InDesign Because I know how it works. Would I want to do that in Canva? Absolutely not. I'm sure you can, I'm sure it's definitely doable, but I also know Canva. They have options for videos and things now that I've never even looked into. To tell you the truth, I have a hard enough time with Capcom.
Speaker 1:
37:30
I am not trying to make graphics with videos. I haven't explored the video side of things in Canva. I'm now with CapCut, which is another free software for the most part. You can like every software. You can pay and get a little more advanced features, but I use CapCut. But like that's just another example of I know how to use Premiere, I edit this podcast in Adobe Premiere, but for just 15 second video clips for an Instagram reel I'm going to open up. Capcut versus Adobe Premiere Right.
Speaker 2:
38:04
But, like on my phone, when I'm making a graphic at home, I use Adobe Express. I don't use Canva, even on my phone. So that's probably just a me thing, because I can't say enough how much I really just suck at Canva.
Speaker 1:
38:21
But I would never edit this podcast in CapCut.
Speaker 2:
38:27
Right, so everything has its place.
Speaker 1:
38:29
Yeah, just what you're needed for.
Speaker 2:
38:31
Yeah, I also, like I talked about PowerPoint earlier, people can still use Microsoft Publisher, which is like the Microsoft version of InDesign. I don't even know how to use it. I'm not going to lie to you. I never had to learn Professors that I had in graphic design that learned how to do things on cork. That was what you used prior to in design being a thing.
Speaker 1:
39:02
I've never had to use that in my life either if you think powerpoint is bad, publisher is a hundred times worse.
Speaker 2:
39:08
Yeah publisher is. I can open things and then just give up. It's like I'm not even going to touch that. That's also how I feel about trying to design things in word. That is the hardest thing for me. Word does not cooperate well.
Speaker 1:
39:22
It's because it's a something based around literally words. Yeah, it's in the title of the software.
Speaker 2:
39:28
Yeah, like I can. I will, 99 of the time, just open indesign just to do like if I wanted to type up a letter I would still do it in indesign versus word. Well, that's a little weird, but no, I just don't like. It doesn't cooperate with me. If you put in a photo here and the text wraps around it, then you move that photo. One click, the whole page gets messed up why not putting photos in my letter? People want to do that in word, though people want things designed in word.
Speaker 1:
40:04
That don't okay, yeah, but if I'm just literally writing like a press release or something, I'm not right. Yeah, I thought that's what you meant, no, I'm talking like people who want full-blown designs.
Speaker 2:
40:16
Oh yeah, that's dumb in word don't do that it happens a lot. I have accepted the fact that powerpoint is going to be around. I will work on not hating PowerPoint so much. But word, I pretty much refuse to design things. In a lot of times it's when people want me to design it but they want to be able to edit it later and make it bad.
Speaker 2:
40:42
And then they make it bad. But they don't have Adobe, so they want it done in word so that they can change it. And then they'll get frustrated because they moved something and it messes up the entire page and like that's why I didn't want to do that yeah, I have a confession that my Microsoft account or my Microsoft license expired and I haven't renewed it yet.
Speaker 1:
41:06
I've been living without Microsoft Word it, and it's awesome.
Speaker 2:
41:12
And nothing bad has happened.
Speaker 1:
41:13
Yeah, knock on wood, because now I said that, yeah, I mean it's bad when people send me Word docs and I can't open and edit it. I have to drop it into Google Drive to make it a Google Sheet.
Speaker 2:
41:26
So it's more work for you.
Speaker 1:
41:27
Yes, but it's also not paying hundreds of dollars a year for Microsoft.
Speaker 2:
41:34
So my Microsoft works just fine though.
Speaker 1:
41:37
Yeah, we have separate Microsoft accounts. I actually another confession I actually had a personal Microsoft account through my Gmail and a Microsoft account through the business.
Speaker 2:
41:50
I also have my own Adobe. We're paying for that twice too. We're doing so good.
Speaker 1:
41:56
Yeah, I think it's personal account. It's more so because again.
Speaker 1:
42:01
Adobe is more in depth, so there's a lot more where if we combined, we would have to. Either I would lose all of my Adobe stuff, the content, and I don't really have a lot of extra fonts. But if Kaylee did, kaylee's is through her personal, mine's through the business, so it makes sense to do it through the business. But if we did that, Kaylee would have to re-download everything that she's added for the past 10, 12 years, which would be a nightmare because, like, I guess this is getting really into the weeds. Sorry if it's discouraging you from being a graphic designer but, um, you know, like people who've worked within design and illustrator, it's not like Canva where you upload a picture or an image to Canva and it kind of stays in Canva on the browser If you delete. So if you upload a photo into InDesign and then you delete that photo from your computer's files and you try and open that design at a later point, it won't load yeah so there it's, it's I think a very outdated way of doing things.
Speaker 1:
43:23
Maybe that's what the adobe cloud is for. I don't know.
Speaker 2:
43:28
I've never used it that way, but um I just have a lot of files on my computer.
Speaker 1:
43:33
Same.
Speaker 2:
43:34
A lot, a lot of photos.
Speaker 1:
43:38
Which sucks, but you, that's just how Adobe is. So all right. Well, we've talked about classes, we've talked about programs. We've talked about classes, we've talked about programs, we've talked about career opportunities. Is there anything else that you would advise or encourage somebody who's looking to get into graphic design to do? We kind of touched on a lot.
Speaker 2:
44:06
I would just say to learn as much as you can, even if you don't think you're going to need to know that. Explore all the different options. If you like two different kinds of things, if you like art and you like something else, there's probably a way you can do both. I don't know. There's a kid that I went to school with that all he does for a living now is make maps for fantasy books, like he designs those maps in all the books yeah.
Speaker 2:
44:41
I think that's the coolest thing. He loved fantasy books, made a career out of it like like even video games.
Speaker 1:
44:48
If you don't necessarily want to design video games, but you love graph design and you love video games. If you don't necessarily want to design video games, but you love graphic design and you love video games. Like there's people that pay graphic designers. Like streamers, for instance, pay graphic designers to create their logos or create their widget icons and stuff on twitch. Like you can put yourself out there to design things that are still of interest to you.
Speaker 2:
45:14
Yeah, so Even if, like my life goal for the longest time was like I want to design a billboard. How cool would that be?
Speaker 1:
45:24
We should do that, we should put that out there.
Speaker 2:
45:26
I did one in Muncie.
Speaker 1:
45:28
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:
45:30
And it was very exciting.
Speaker 1:
45:32
Did you drive by it and see it?
Speaker 2:
45:33
no, it was a digital one. You'd have to sit there and like wait for it to scroll a minute.
Speaker 1:
45:38
You'd have to waste a minute of your life to watch it hey, I did it, that's all that mattered.
Speaker 2:
45:45
Like that was a really exciting thing for me. There's been a lot of things that I get excited about. Still other people be like you're kind of strange. Like I made wedding invitations for people in australia. I never thought that would be something that happened to me so that that was cool.
Speaker 1:
46:07
I know we're should be reaching the end of the episode, but that kind of sparked an idea. For me is like, even if you haven't gone to school for a graphic designer, but you know the programs, you've done it, you enjoy it, there's ways to kind of start building a portfolio without necessarily having a full time job as a graphic designer. Right, fiverr and Upwork and things like that, where you like designing wedding invitations, etsy, like all that different type of stuff oh yeah, it's crazy build up that portfolio so that maybe you can make it your full-time job at some point.
Speaker 1:
46:47
Once you can show a business or an agency that this is what I've done, this is what I like, this is what I do. There's absolutely ways that you can do it part-time while you're learning and getting better. Sure, that some of the first stuff that you design for a client might not be the best work ever, but that's how you get better as you practice and keep learning.
Speaker 2:
47:10
We didn't even talk about that. Like the freelance aspect.
Speaker 1:
47:13
Freelance aspect of it. Yeah, sorry for the loud trucks driving by, but yeah, there's that whole different side of I mean that's literally kaylee's background is well kind of she did it on the side. Well, she obviously had her background in the newspaper and did all that, but she also did freelance stuff on the side and now we're here so it got too busy to be just a side gig.
Speaker 2:
47:45
But that was stuff. Some of the projects I've done are a little bit outside of my expertise, so I've learned things. Even now, you know, 10 plus years later, I'm still learning things. I still. Tiktok puts me to shame. Man, like some of the things that people can design is crazy yeah so it's also something like you can learn new stuff all the time yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 1:
48:15
Keep learning, give stuff a try, test it out. If you have that creative background, you have that creative energy and insight into everyday things. Put it to test and see if you like it and who knows what will spark and what you'll run with in five, ten years, 10 years down the road you could be where Kaylee's at, who knows. So I think that'll do it for this episode. Hopefully it was an inspiration or you found some insight, something helpful to help you on your journey to being a graphic designer. If you did, please let us know in the comments whether you see this on social media or you're watching on YouTube. Send us a message, let us know, or you can always email us, riley at hardeneddigitalcom or kaylee at hardeneddigitalcom for any questions. If you weren't watching on YouTube, please go subscribe to the YouTube. It is youtubecom slash at hardened digital and you can watch and watch this episode but also see all of our previous episodes as well. So thank you everybody for tuning in.
Speaker 1:
49:24
Next week's episode it's going to be all about content creators, social media managers same thing where Kaylee will be leading the conversation or asking the questions and about what I've done, classes, all that type of stuff. So it should be a really good one for anybody who's looking to get into content creation, social media management and where you should go if that's an interest to you. So we hope to see you on YouTube next week, or hope you listen in whenever you can. That will be it. See you next week, you.
0:00
If you've ever thought about getting into the graphic design industry, you'll want to tune into this episode. I have Kayleon, who's our graphic designer, and we talk about everything from what classes you should be taking, what courses you should be taking online, do you need to go to school for it, what programs can you be learning, and also just what industry or what careers there are for graphic designers. It's not always just sitting at a computer and designing brochures or magazines. There's so many different fields that you can get into with a graphic design background, and we break that all down in this week's episode of of Digital Wrap-Up. My name is Riley and I'm the host, and I'm the CEO of Hardin Digital and Design, happy to be joined today by my co-host. I'm going to start calling her that because she's on pretty much every episode now.
Speaker 1:
1:17
But, kaylee, welcome back. Hey, thanks, excited to be back. We had a little mishap in the last episode which you will never hear because it didn't record correctly. I had some mic issues, but we're excited to be back. We have a very fun at least fun to us campaign for the month of June are going to be highlighting a specific topic or industry within what we do here at Harden Digital and Design and breaking it down for anybody who has an interest in that field or industry as well.
Speaker 1:
1:53
So we're starting with graphic design. Today we're going to talk about common interests or shared interests that lead to people being a graphic designer what classes you should take, what programs you should learn, what other actual careers are there for graphic designers besides doing what Kaylee does and working in-house or working for an agency? And then over the next coming weeks we're going to talk about social media managers and content creators. And then you know website development, website designers, so a lot of this you know, school just let out for the summer, so kind of career advice or career tips for people looking to get into what we do here at Hardin Digital and Design. So we're going to start with graphic design. I think where we're going to go first is talking about all the different career opportunities that there are for people interested in graphic design. So, kaylee, what are some of the more common careers that you see graphic designers get into, besides just the? You know I sit at a desk and design brochures or graphics for social media.
Speaker 2:
3:02
I made kind of a short list, just this off the top of my head. I'm sure there are thousands of things you could go into, but I put apparel design, video game design, tattooing, animation of any kind advertising, which is kind of the route I went. You could go into architecture if you feel like it, um, and then photography and videography kind of fits right in with what we do, but people do that just in itself. Yeah, that's my short list. I know there are so many more I probably don't even know. These are just ones that I might have had interest in at some point or you know somebody who's doing it?
Speaker 2:
3:47
Yeah, you know somebody, or there's so much you could do with it, yeah.
Speaker 1:
3:53
So what is like all of those? Obviously related to graphic design, but is it really just kind of having an interest or being creative, thinking creatively about how things come together? Is that kind of the shared interest or shared skill set among those?
Speaker 2:
4:14
Yes, that's actually a really good way to put it. Technically, what they call it in school is visual communication design, so it's all about how to communicate the message visually, whatever your message is.
Speaker 1:
4:32
Yeah, and that's where the different careers come in. Is that message changes? Yes, so how are you communicating that? Yes, whether it's a video game. The message is animating, characters and stories and plots, and all that, whereas A tattoo is the same.
Speaker 2:
4:50
I mean, it's the same thing.
Speaker 1:
4:52
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
4:52
You're trying to evoke something with your art.
Speaker 1:
4:56
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
4:57
So it's just the most creative way to tell a story, or?
Speaker 1:
5:04
Yeah, get your point. That makes sense and I think you kind of mentioned this. But graphic design, obviously you have to be, have an interest in, you know designing and putting things together, telling a visual story. But it can be, can be combined with your interest for other things, right, like if you want to be a teacher or you love tattoos. Like graphic design is kind of the thing that connects you, but then you spin it off to whatever you're interested in right or whatever you're good at.
Speaker 2:
5:42
Yeah, like the kid I went to school with who was fantastic at math, he wanted to be an architect, but he wanted to have an art background before going to school for architecture, which I think is fascinating, so that you can create buildings that are beautiful, like, yeah, that's a super kind of one-off. I don't know a lot of people who probably do that, but I think that was cool.
Speaker 1:
6:14
Um, if you're great at drawing, that translates to the tattoo side of things yeah, or animation or whatever.
Speaker 2:
6:26
If you're good with computers and software design, you can design apps. You can design websites. Yeah, you can like. Most of what I do is on the computer as well. I wouldn't say I'm even remotely close to like a computer whiz, like not not even close. Yeah, but I don't sit and hand draw everything every day, so you do have to have some kind of computer understanding.
Speaker 2:
6:55
I can't actually draw very well in real life. Same. So you'd think with the amount of art classes I've taken and, you know, having a whole degree well, that just goes to show.
Speaker 1:
7:09
Like you you don't necessarily have to even be able to do that know how to draw not that you don't know how, you're just not good at it but like, put you in front of a computer and you can create some of the the best stuff I've ever seen from any graphic designer ever. But if you were to go try and draw somebody or tattoo somebody like it'd be a whole different story like yeah but you take a tattoo artist and try and have them not saying like as a whole.
Speaker 1:
7:41
Every tattoo artist is bad at doing something on computer by any means, but like the same, it's just a specialty.
Speaker 2:
7:47
everything in graphic design, I feel like everybody has their specialty, um, but that I. I guess that goes to show that, like, you shouldn't get scared away if you're not good at something, because there might be another avenue that you're just better at. Yeah, like, I like photography. I'm not the best at it. I'm not really the best at one particular thing. In general, I don't think, um, I've just always been creative and this is how I chose to take my life with that.
Speaker 1:
8:24
Yeah, like so, like, what would you say for somebody who's feels creative and thinks they're creative and say, okay, I'm creative, so I wanted to give graphic design a try. But then they started trying to design graphics or different things, like using Canva. Would you basically just like is there anything you would tell them? Like, just explore different avenues, try different things out until you kind of find what that specialty is?
Speaker 2:
8:59
Yes, I think so. I wouldn't have known, like straight out of high school, that designing publications and like multiple page booklets was going to be what I was good at. That wasn't. That wasn't even the direction I thought I was going to take when I went to college, like I wanted to go into advertising and work at a big ad agency, like that was my plan. Yeah, that ended up partially happening. I guess that that's what I studied. Like I had different minors in business and advertising because that was what I was interested in. Yeah, so that makes sense.
Speaker 2:
9:41
It's also a lot of once you know the basics of design or art or Just design concepts, yeah design concepts, like I had an entire class where it's just like learning the basics about colors and theories and the history of art. You can get to that point where you understand the basics. You can do pretty much any of these careers, yeah and like with technology and everything today.
Speaker 1:
10:10
Well, you don't even need technology for everything but like. If you wanted to explore the I don't lack of better terms graphic side of things, you can jump on canva for free. If you want to explore the drawing side of things, obviously you don't have to pay for software to pick up pencil and paper, colored pencils, whatever paintbrush there's apps on your iPad. Even so, there's so many different ways to explore and narrow down specifically what you're good at or what you like the most. Narrow down specifically what you're good at or what you like the most, taking those creative skills and that creative thinking and applying it to whichever specialty it is. I don't know about the animation side of things or video game design.
Speaker 2:
10:55
That might take a little more specialty software, but for the most part, you could probably narrow down and find what you really like the best yeah, and a lot of people, especially the people who can draw, like who can really, really draw you're usually good at that from the get-go and that's the kind of thing like I was always jealous the people who could do that. It was fascinating. But then those people would come to me with questions about projects we were doing in InDesign, because the software that we were using wasn't like clicking for them, so like they had different skills then you have people like me that none of it clicks yesterday you trying to draw lines was cracking me up, yeah.
Speaker 1:
11:42
I had to design something from scratch and end design which I wouldn't even say. I started with a blank canvas but I wouldn't consider it from scratch because I was basing it off of a different report that I was looking at while I was also designing something, something so like if you give me that, if you give me a starting point and say duplicate this or copy this, I can generally try and figure it out, like visually, trying to conceptualize how to put stuff together. No, not good at it, not good at the software. I could probably. I know the software, I took classes for it in college and I can eventually figure it out.
Speaker 2:
12:27
But the tips and tricks and shortcuts and doing all this other stuff, yeah, it was very funny to watch yeah, but I ask you stupid questions about facebook all the time or whatever programs I'm trying to use that I don't know anything about.
Speaker 1:
12:46
Yeah, so on the flip side, Kaylee trying to use CapCut to create TikToks and Instagram reels it's been a disaster. I would say that's worse than my design skills.
Speaker 2:
12:59
Yeah, but you have some training. But, see you had to take classes for graphic design, which that wasn't even your area of study.
Speaker 1:
13:10
Yeah, really no, it might have changed right after I left too, because I put up such a fight. I almost failed it, if that tells you my skills. But I think that's a and it's a very hot topic for me because the graphic design teacher.
Speaker 1:
13:32
You know they give you a rubric, say this is what you need to do. I followed the rubric. I technically did what I was supposed to do, but it wasn't creative enough, or the professor didn't like it, or it wasn't up to her creativity, or like she just didn't like my design versus the more creative people in the class right, which it's very subjective.
Speaker 1:
13:56
It was very subjective and this was, you know, senior year, second semester. I have to pass this class or I don't graduate. And I had a d pretty much the entire semester because she would just give me a D on everything. Even though I followed the rubric to a T. I had all everything in there I had. I like I didn't miss anything. It's just she didn't like my design. So yeah, like that's not necessarily my fault.
Speaker 1:
14:25
It's like I followed the rubric. I just don't have that ability to Visualize and put that into a design.
Speaker 2:
14:33
yeah that's one thing about the art world is you kind of have to learn to take criticism. That's what I learned in college, because people are going to tell you first of all if they don't like something, but also like one person could love it and the next person could hate it, like you're saying. But to be graded on that, I think, is crazy.
Speaker 1:
14:54
Yeah, like I understand, you don't like it.
Speaker 2:
14:58
But is it done correctly you?
Speaker 1:
14:59
telling me you don't like it or I need to do it differently is not going to change my ability to create something else, because I just physically, mentally, don't have that capacity to do it. So, yeah, just you giving me a bad grade or telling me I need to start over. Well, that was the best I could do. I'm not gonna just randomly think of new things unless I look at somebody else's or have somebody else help me.
Speaker 2:
15:24
Yeah, so there were a lot of times that I loved doing art critiques in classes, because sometimes it's nice to see things through other people's eyes, Like I would have never thought of that, because I don't see it like that. That's kind of one of the cool parts I think about advertising. Everybody's going to see it differently it differently.
Speaker 1:
15:52
Yeah, like that was cool in my class too, but that doesn't mean that I like. Getting those ideas or seeing other people's designs didn't help me for future stuff because, like everything I saw was cool for that specific thing, but I can't translate that into another project, right?
Speaker 1:
16:05
so, um, yeah, but like on the flip, I had my photography and videography professor. He was the complete opposite, where he understood that not everybody's going to be a photography major or videography major or video production major, whatever it is but I did the assignments, I applied everything on the rubric or everything that we needed to do. Did I have the most creative photos or the most creative edits? No, but I did what I was told and I'd not necessarily gotten an A on every project, but I didn't get C's and D's on everything. So, like he understood that I applied what I learned on the technical side of things Right. Like I learned how to use a camera, I learned how to use the software. But just because I don't have that creative mindset to make the coolest photo, I was the same way.
Speaker 1:
17:08
He didn't dock me points for it and almost fail me for graduating.
Speaker 2:
17:13
I was the same. I had to take so many 3d art classes and like sculpture for me just doesn't click. I can think of it in my head but then actually making happen what I want never worked. But I didn't get docked because it looked bad, like, yeah, like you said, I finished the assignment I I had a thought of what it should look like and then it just usually never came out how I wanted it to. But that's just not my thing. Am I ever going to do a sculpture in real life? Probably not, so that a lot of the art classes that I took won't apply. I took a class on how to make jewelry.
Speaker 2:
18:02
I've taken painting classes and multiple drawing classes and all there were so many options, and this was just at my one school, which probably didn't even have that large of an art department, like, and I went to a liberal arts university, like I didn't even go just to an art school, which would have been really cool, I'm sure. Yeah, but like then you're immersed in it.
Speaker 1:
18:33
Yeah, that you live and breathe you don't take math and science classes and philosophy classes for two years right.
Speaker 2:
18:42
So would I have learned something different and maybe had a different interest if I would have gone just to an art school?
Speaker 1:
18:51
maybe potentially.
Speaker 2:
18:53
I would have loved to go to Heron like, or Savannah, like. There are so many art schools you could go to. I also didn't think in high school that I had the portfolio to be able to get into that.
Speaker 1:
19:11
Like if Did you take a lot of art classes in high school.
Speaker 2:
19:14
I did Everything that was offered. Oh, I took some of them multiple times. They don't really have like painting too, but you can just retake painting if you want to.
Speaker 1:
19:30
I took art history.
Speaker 2:
19:31
But also when I was a senior.
Speaker 2:
19:36
That was the very first year they actually had visual communication as a class in high school in high school like they bought new computers, for it was the very first year they ever did any kind of art class on computers, so that was brand new. As a brand new teacher, it was a brand new like curriculum thank you, I could not think of that word to save my life. Um, and I think it was kind of a learning experience for everyone involved. But that's kind of like I knew I wanted to do something with art, but that is what did it for me. I remember learning Photoshop for the first time, also not one of the programs I am great at. I feel like all I'm doing is telling everybody that I'm really not good at my job.
Speaker 1:
20:26
But everybody who has seen your work would disagree, I hope. But everybody who has seen your work would disagree, so I hope. Um, so we've talked a lot about college and classes. What other, and even in high school, what other classes would you encourage people to take if they have the ability to like? For me, okay, so I took art history in high school art history yeah, wow, I don't know if that really translates.
Speaker 1:
20:55
For me. It was interesting because I'm like, I like history, so I saw more of the history side versus learning about art concepts.
Speaker 2:
21:04
Yeah, and why things were done is more so and I would have loved art history if I didn't have to remember all those dates and could just learn about the history of the art. Yeah, but it's useful to know the background of things. I think I had a professor once tell me like, if you know the rules, that's when you can break them. Tell me like, if you know the rules, that's when you can break them. So if you want to design things that are groundbreaking or new or whatever, you still have to know the basic principles. So some of those classes, probably even things like I took an archaeology class in college. There was more art in that class than probably anything else that we learned, but that was fascinating. That's like not particularly relevant, but it ended up being really cool for me. I don't know in high school if there was anything. I don't know what they offer at different places nowadays I.
Speaker 1:
22:07
But like the visual communications, that's probably a good one. I'm assuming there's probably those classes. A lot of schools have production studios now and I know like video editing and stuff. Like we had announcements in high school like that class and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:
22:26
I'm sure there's editing that's going on there and I took photography classes before everything was digital. So like I took a whole class on film photography, which was one of the coolest experiences like having a dark room and getting to actually develop your own film, which now I don't even know if you can do that like there. That's one of those things. If you're really into like producing good art, doing film photography is really cool. Yeah, we made our own little pinhole cameras like the original camera.
Speaker 1:
23:09
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
23:10
There was just a lot. And then I also took digital photography classes, which is you'd think it's both photography, but that's a whole different universe.
Speaker 1:
23:21
That's what I took in college, yeah. So I think moral of the story is if you have the ability to, especially in high school, which I don't know how many high schoolers are listening to- this but if you know, if you have a kid that's interested and you don't know, like, encourage them to take as many of these different creative arts I guess they're all kind of creative arts, yeah classes so that they can maybe explore what they want to specialize in before they even go to college.
Speaker 2:
23:56
And I could rant to you forever. I'm not going to because this podcast would be three hours long. But a lot of people see the arts in general as not a good career path and sometimes like the whole starving artist thing. Yeah, sometimes, depending on what you go into, there may not be a lot of money making opportunities. But that doesn't mean that all art classes are useless or that anything like, especially in performing arts or just art in general. I guess there are things that you can do to make a career out of that. Yeah, that's, I guess that's. Our whole point here is like I loved art. I also like the business side of things, so we do a lot of startups and small business branding. Like that's how I compare two things that I like together. I don't even remember what the question was or what, how I got off track because I got on a little rant. But a lot of people are like, oh, you're never going to make money doing art and that's not true to so many things.
Speaker 1:
25:17
Yeah, like I'm thinking somebody went to school for graph design or visual arts or whatever you want to call it. Put them into our agency, where they're creating content, where they're like I would trust the designer, once they learn the software, to create all of our reels and tiktoks. And like, because they have that creative thinking behind it where, once they get the technology down, they would apply all this other stuff that could translate into great videos without you know having to learn cameras, like you're doing it all on your phone, but they know the concepts of what shots and what right, what things to include and spacing, and list goes on and on. Like, and people are obsessed with becoming influencers and video like creating videos for tiktok and instagram. Like that could easily just as easily come from a graphic designer as it could from anybody else.
Speaker 2:
26:21
So I think there's just so many different avenues and a lot of it is stuff people don't even think about, like where you're different, like you're a shoe guy, right, somebody designed those shoes yeah somebody probably went to art school to design those shoes.
Speaker 2:
26:40
Somebody who decides what paint scheme is going to go on a new Harley Like somebody went to art school for that, somebody, all of these things that people are like I don't think it crosses their mind, but somebody creative was behind that. All of the movies you see. Like those people probably have some kind of creative arts background, like it's not completely useless. I've been told that a lot, so that one kind of rubs me the wrong way that like, yes, no, I didn't go and become an engineer.
Speaker 1:
27:28
Yeah, but that doesn't mean that my career is useless or it's just creative. Yeah, now you're part owner of a business and you have flexibility and creativity, freedom to do whatever you want whenever you want. Right, that's a win, like it's not always about. Oh, I make hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's success is different. That's a whole different topic. But yeah, like it's, but there's not a useless career path or useless industry to get into right because you could take it wherever you want it's almost like it's.
Speaker 2:
28:06
It's the first step, yeah, like I have a bachelor degree which is equal to a lot of other people, just in different industries. I don't know.
Speaker 1:
28:17
You don't have any people go get a bachelor's degree and then never apply it.
Speaker 2:
28:21
Right. It's just I think this is a good. Graphic design in general can go into so many different things, so if you're any kind of creative person, it would be worth looking into more, just to see where you can go after that. Yeah, it's also not something like I don't have to go get a master's in this to do my job.
Speaker 1:
28:49
True.
Speaker 2:
28:51
If you wanted to specialize in something, you could then go on after your bachelor's and.
Speaker 1:
28:59
But you don't even necessarily have to go back to school. You can just do master classes or intensive trainings in the specific programs that you're going to be using. Right means in the specific programs that you're going to be using, like right, a lot of that's free or very cheap to do versus spending another two or four years doing something.
Speaker 2:
29:16
I could also just sit and watch youtube for three days straight and learn. I learned more on youtube and tiktok and instagram about just about tricks on programs that I use.
Speaker 1:
29:32
Yep.
Speaker 2:
29:32
I learned how to make the coolest looking PowerPoints on Tik TOK. Who would have thought I don't like PowerPoint at all? I really, really don't, but there are some really cool things you can do with it, so I guess I'm gonna have to suck it up. There are some really cool things you can do with it.
Speaker 1:
29:50
So I guess I'm going to have to suck it up. So, speaking of PowerPoint, it's a good transition into we've talked about the careers, the classes, the interest. Going one step further. What are some of the different programs that people should start familiarizing themselves with or practicing in or get a free trial? Or maybe the software is just free in general? What are some of those programs to learn that would be beneficial for somebody looking to get into graphic design?
Speaker 2:
30:24
Canva. You can start on Canva. Canva is stressful to me because I've learned other programs first, so then canva just reacts differently. Yeah, um, but at least for the area of graphic design that I'm in, the things I use most are illustrator and indesign, both part of the adobe creative suite, both part of the adobe creative suite. Then the creative suite has like 60 different programs in it. Yeah, I don't even know what half of them are. I know they're one specifically for like web back-end web development and video editing and all sorts of stuff, so I don't even get into those kind of things.
Speaker 2:
31:13
I use Photoshop when I need to. I love Lightroom. That's a fun one If you're anything photography related. I don't even think I use Photoshop for photo editing at all anymore. Everything can be done in Lightroom. The amount of things you can do on there is mind-blowing. But I use InDesign more than anything else. For people who don't know, photoshop is for photos, illustrator is for vector graphics. Text illustrations in design is where you put it all together, so it's like the end product.
Speaker 2:
32:09
So yes you can put text over a photo in Photoshop, but should you Not really so? Indesign is where you should be putting all the pieces together. Then you will. If you need to make edits to this photo, you open it back up in Photoshop. Okay, but there are just certain things like. Each program is built for a specific purpose and InDesign is putting all the pieces together.
Speaker 1:
32:35
Makes sense. So, outside of the creative suite, obviously there's Canva. For the sake of conversation, what's the value, or perceived value that you have of why the creative suite, the creative cloud? Now, it's probably whatever. Whatever the value of the Adobe softwares versus Canva.
Speaker 2:
33:11
I mean honestly, Canva is very, very good I'm just clipping that that's the end of the podcast. Can I admitted it? Yeah, canva is useful. I just don't like it. Um, what was the question? Why would you choose what's?
Speaker 1:
33:29
the value of adobe software versus canva, like what do you? What's the added value that you get from illustrator versus canva?
Speaker 2:
33:43
I think it's a lot easier to do more custom. Like, I don't know if you can draw specifically in Canva. I don't know if you can edit the photos at the same quality that you can in Photoshop. Um, Canva is basically like InDesign. Um, you pick what size of thing you want and you put everything on there, and for the general population it's great. Now anybody can create their own graphics, which kind of hurts me a little bit.
Speaker 1:
34:27
But I think people notice the difference.
Speaker 2:
34:32
But I think people notice the difference. Yeah, I think people do, but I also think it makes people maybe appreciate what I do more. Because if you try it.
Speaker 1:
34:41
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
34:42
And you get frustrated because you're like why is this not looking like what I want?
Speaker 1:
34:47
Yeah, that makes sense. But like I think I could be just saying this because I'm in the industry and I recognize the type of stuff. But like I can tell what's designed in canva versus what a professional has done in adobe very easily. Like I see graphics on social media, I immediately know they're from canva.
Speaker 2:
35:11
Yeah, so if you don't have the skills, it's a very good option I'd agree um, or if that's how you get started, and then you're like, okay, well, I can't customize this like how I want it is very good for generic stuff like I.
Speaker 1:
35:32
I don't there's a place for having just graphics on social media. Sometimes you can't avoid it, sometimes you need it. But like even for, for instance, some of the stuff I've done for the city, where we place a photo in it but we have a banner up top that says you know, memorial Day, trash, delay or whatever it is Like for me that takes 30 seconds once it's all set up, versus trying to do that. Like Adobe is a little slower in terms of the export process and opening it up and everything, versus just opening a new tab in your browser right and hitting download. So like there is that side of value for it. Like I could easily have gone into illustrator and like there.
Speaker 2:
36:24
There just didn't seem a need to do that right for what I was doing it's also maybe the difference of creating one graphic versus like if I tried to design a multi-page anything in canva, I would rip my hair out. That is true, like I talked to people who do. They did their annual reports in their booklets in Canva and I just more power to you because I could not do that. I could design you a 48-page magazine in one day in InDesign Because I know how it works. Would I want to do that in Canva? Absolutely not. I'm sure you can, I'm sure it's definitely doable, but I also know Canva. They have options for videos and things now that I've never even looked into. To tell you the truth, I have a hard enough time with Capcom.
Speaker 1:
37:30
I am not trying to make graphics with videos. I haven't explored the video side of things in Canva. I'm now with CapCut, which is another free software for the most part. You can like every software. You can pay and get a little more advanced features, but I use CapCut. But like that's just another example of I know how to use Premiere, I edit this podcast in Adobe Premiere, but for just 15 second video clips for an Instagram reel I'm going to open up. Capcut versus Adobe Premiere Right.
Speaker 2:
38:04
But, like on my phone, when I'm making a graphic at home, I use Adobe Express. I don't use Canva, even on my phone. So that's probably just a me thing, because I can't say enough how much I really just suck at Canva.
Speaker 1:
38:21
But I would never edit this podcast in CapCut.
Speaker 2:
38:27
Right, so everything has its place.
Speaker 1:
38:29
Yeah, just what you're needed for.
Speaker 2:
38:31
Yeah, I also, like I talked about PowerPoint earlier, people can still use Microsoft Publisher, which is like the Microsoft version of InDesign. I don't even know how to use it. I'm not going to lie to you. I never had to learn Professors that I had in graphic design that learned how to do things on cork. That was what you used prior to in design being a thing.
Speaker 1:
39:02
I've never had to use that in my life either if you think powerpoint is bad, publisher is a hundred times worse.
Speaker 2:
39:08
Yeah publisher is. I can open things and then just give up. It's like I'm not even going to touch that. That's also how I feel about trying to design things in word. That is the hardest thing for me. Word does not cooperate well.
Speaker 1:
39:22
It's because it's a something based around literally words. Yeah, it's in the title of the software.
Speaker 2:
39:28
Yeah, like I can. I will, 99 of the time, just open indesign just to do like if I wanted to type up a letter I would still do it in indesign versus word. Well, that's a little weird, but no, I just don't like. It doesn't cooperate with me. If you put in a photo here and the text wraps around it, then you move that photo. One click, the whole page gets messed up why not putting photos in my letter? People want to do that in word, though people want things designed in word.
Speaker 1:
40:04
That don't okay, yeah, but if I'm just literally writing like a press release or something, I'm not right. Yeah, I thought that's what you meant, no, I'm talking like people who want full-blown designs.
Speaker 2:
40:16
Oh yeah, that's dumb in word don't do that it happens a lot. I have accepted the fact that powerpoint is going to be around. I will work on not hating PowerPoint so much. But word, I pretty much refuse to design things. In a lot of times it's when people want me to design it but they want to be able to edit it later and make it bad.
Speaker 2:
40:42
And then they make it bad. But they don't have Adobe, so they want it done in word so that they can change it. And then they'll get frustrated because they moved something and it messes up the entire page and like that's why I didn't want to do that yeah, I have a confession that my Microsoft account or my Microsoft license expired and I haven't renewed it yet.
Speaker 1:
41:06
I've been living without Microsoft Word it, and it's awesome.
Speaker 2:
41:12
And nothing bad has happened.
Speaker 1:
41:13
Yeah, knock on wood, because now I said that, yeah, I mean it's bad when people send me Word docs and I can't open and edit it. I have to drop it into Google Drive to make it a Google Sheet.
Speaker 2:
41:26
So it's more work for you.
Speaker 1:
41:27
Yes, but it's also not paying hundreds of dollars a year for Microsoft.
Speaker 2:
41:34
So my Microsoft works just fine though.
Speaker 1:
41:37
Yeah, we have separate Microsoft accounts. I actually another confession I actually had a personal Microsoft account through my Gmail and a Microsoft account through the business.
Speaker 2:
41:50
I also have my own Adobe. We're paying for that twice too. We're doing so good.
Speaker 1:
41:56
Yeah, I think it's personal account. It's more so because again.
Speaker 1:
42:01
Adobe is more in depth, so there's a lot more where if we combined, we would have to. Either I would lose all of my Adobe stuff, the content, and I don't really have a lot of extra fonts. But if Kaylee did, kaylee's is through her personal, mine's through the business, so it makes sense to do it through the business. But if we did that, Kaylee would have to re-download everything that she's added for the past 10, 12 years, which would be a nightmare because, like, I guess this is getting really into the weeds. Sorry if it's discouraging you from being a graphic designer but, um, you know, like people who've worked within design and illustrator, it's not like Canva where you upload a picture or an image to Canva and it kind of stays in Canva on the browser If you delete. So if you upload a photo into InDesign and then you delete that photo from your computer's files and you try and open that design at a later point, it won't load yeah so there it's, it's I think a very outdated way of doing things.
Speaker 1:
43:23
Maybe that's what the adobe cloud is for. I don't know.
Speaker 2:
43:28
I've never used it that way, but um I just have a lot of files on my computer.
Speaker 1:
43:33
Same.
Speaker 2:
43:34
A lot, a lot of photos.
Speaker 1:
43:38
Which sucks, but you, that's just how Adobe is. So all right. Well, we've talked about classes, we've talked about programs. We've talked about classes, we've talked about programs, we've talked about career opportunities. Is there anything else that you would advise or encourage somebody who's looking to get into graphic design to do? We kind of touched on a lot.
Speaker 2:
44:06
I would just say to learn as much as you can, even if you don't think you're going to need to know that. Explore all the different options. If you like two different kinds of things, if you like art and you like something else, there's probably a way you can do both. I don't know. There's a kid that I went to school with that all he does for a living now is make maps for fantasy books, like he designs those maps in all the books yeah.
Speaker 2:
44:41
I think that's the coolest thing. He loved fantasy books, made a career out of it like like even video games.
Speaker 1:
44:48
If you don't necessarily want to design video games, but you love graph design and you love video games. If you don't necessarily want to design video games, but you love graphic design and you love video games. Like there's people that pay graphic designers. Like streamers, for instance, pay graphic designers to create their logos or create their widget icons and stuff on twitch. Like you can put yourself out there to design things that are still of interest to you.
Speaker 2:
45:14
Yeah, so Even if, like my life goal for the longest time was like I want to design a billboard. How cool would that be?
Speaker 1:
45:24
We should do that, we should put that out there.
Speaker 2:
45:26
I did one in Muncie.
Speaker 1:
45:28
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:
45:30
And it was very exciting.
Speaker 1:
45:32
Did you drive by it and see it?
Speaker 2:
45:33
no, it was a digital one. You'd have to sit there and like wait for it to scroll a minute.
Speaker 1:
45:38
You'd have to waste a minute of your life to watch it hey, I did it, that's all that mattered.
Speaker 2:
45:45
Like that was a really exciting thing for me. There's been a lot of things that I get excited about. Still other people be like you're kind of strange. Like I made wedding invitations for people in australia. I never thought that would be something that happened to me so that that was cool.
Speaker 1:
46:07
I know we're should be reaching the end of the episode, but that kind of sparked an idea. For me is like, even if you haven't gone to school for a graphic designer, but you know the programs, you've done it, you enjoy it, there's ways to kind of start building a portfolio without necessarily having a full time job as a graphic designer. Right, fiverr and Upwork and things like that, where you like designing wedding invitations, etsy, like all that different type of stuff oh yeah, it's crazy build up that portfolio so that maybe you can make it your full-time job at some point.
Speaker 1:
46:47
Once you can show a business or an agency that this is what I've done, this is what I like, this is what I do. There's absolutely ways that you can do it part-time while you're learning and getting better. Sure, that some of the first stuff that you design for a client might not be the best work ever, but that's how you get better as you practice and keep learning.
Speaker 2:
47:10
We didn't even talk about that. Like the freelance aspect.
Speaker 1:
47:13
Freelance aspect of it. Yeah, sorry for the loud trucks driving by, but yeah, there's that whole different side of I mean that's literally kaylee's background is well kind of she did it on the side. Well, she obviously had her background in the newspaper and did all that, but she also did freelance stuff on the side and now we're here so it got too busy to be just a side gig.
Speaker 2:
47:45
But that was stuff. Some of the projects I've done are a little bit outside of my expertise, so I've learned things. Even now, you know, 10 plus years later, I'm still learning things. I still. Tiktok puts me to shame. Man, like some of the things that people can design is crazy yeah so it's also something like you can learn new stuff all the time yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 1:
48:15
Keep learning, give stuff a try, test it out. If you have that creative background, you have that creative energy and insight into everyday things. Put it to test and see if you like it and who knows what will spark and what you'll run with in five, ten years, 10 years down the road you could be where Kaylee's at, who knows. So I think that'll do it for this episode. Hopefully it was an inspiration or you found some insight, something helpful to help you on your journey to being a graphic designer. If you did, please let us know in the comments whether you see this on social media or you're watching on YouTube. Send us a message, let us know, or you can always email us, riley at hardeneddigitalcom or kaylee at hardeneddigitalcom for any questions. If you weren't watching on YouTube, please go subscribe to the YouTube. It is youtubecom slash at hardened digital and you can watch and watch this episode but also see all of our previous episodes as well. So thank you everybody for tuning in.
Speaker 1:
49:24
Next week's episode it's going to be all about content creators, social media managers same thing where Kaylee will be leading the conversation or asking the questions and about what I've done, classes, all that type of stuff. So it should be a really good one for anybody who's looking to get into content creation, social media management and where you should go if that's an interest to you. So we hope to see you on YouTube next week, or hope you listen in whenever you can. That will be it. See you next week, you.
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