WEBVTT
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if we're being really charitable, it's crawl, walk, run.
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It's, how do we ease people into, this brave new world, but on the other side, it could also be like, and this is something that happens with these large organizations that they're Doing, they're painting a grandiose vision to make up for the fact that, Their actual product is behind the curve
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Hi everyone.
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And welcome to deep learning with poly AI today with me, I've got Brian Thompson, our VP of product marketing Brian, welcome to the podcast.
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Thanks for having me.
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It's really good to be here.
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First time.
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Yeah.
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Welcome on board.
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Long time listener.
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First time.
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Good, good, good, good.
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We'll try to get some first quarter resolution in.
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But look, I think today what would be really interesting is to cover the announcement of agent force by Salesforce.
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I think like every year dreamforce happened and the Salesforce hype bandwagon has been in like going full steam.
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So tell us what is
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AgentForce?
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Oh, what is AgentForce?
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So AgentForce gosh, it's so many things, but really I think at its core, it's this big strategic shift from Salesforce.
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Leading up to this, it was customer 360 last year and so on.
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That's what they've been building toward.
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But now they're saying actually the next stage is, Autonomous dedicated AI agents.
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It's their chance or their, their play for deploying AI in large organizations in ways that are discreet, ROI focused, and really answering all of these questions that we've had over the last couple of years of how do we start to get value out of these AI experiments.
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So that's one thing.
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It's this vision that they're painting.
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Another way of looking at it is it's a rebrand for Einstein Copilot.
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Because that's where we're starting at least.
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And they're looking to make new releases.
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Things are going GA over the next, months, two months, six months, and it's going, but there's a long road to hope.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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If you just read Reddit, some more cynical reviews say that Asian force is the rebranded Einstein co pilot.
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It's another one is a co pilot for like generative agents instead of the previous Einstein GPT announcement, which I think came last year.
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Not to be skeptical.
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I genuinely think that like Salesforce has so many things working in their favor in this ecosystem when it comes to the backend data interactions, et cetera.
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Benioff is going rampant talking about the fact that they have the best AI.
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And what really caught me by surprise in looking at, we're a bit like a mouse watching elephants stomp around, but it's very aggressive towards Microsoft, right?
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Like he talks about Clippy.
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He talks about co pilot not being it.
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I almost feel like there's a part where he's just talking And the genetic behavior that's like something that we haven't stopped talking about for the past 12 months as he's bringing it into the world of enterprise.
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What do you think about all that?
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Oh, okay.
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So there's multiple pieces there.
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First of all, why, why is Microsoft this present absence and why are we talking about Clippy and all of that?
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And I think that there's probably a couple of reasons there.
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Number one, so many of us were deeply scarred by Clippy.
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I love
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Clippy.
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I've said that before.
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Like I, okay, fine.
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Some of us love Clippy.
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But see the point being though, Clippy is like a universal point of reference and really,
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oh it's
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polarizing, polarizing, which is fine.
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But polarizing, but well known.
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And one of the leitmotifs of this presentation and kind of everything that Salesforce is doing is that they're trying to take AI out of the ether and make it really tangible, practical.
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Results oriented.
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And tying it to discrete things that people know about.
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I think it helps ground.
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It grounds it in that way.
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But also the other thing that I think they're aware of, because they're, they're smart, right?
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Salesforce has long connected the legacy enterprise with.
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Trends that are happening in Silicon Valley.
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It's their stick.
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They can take it and upscale it up level it and all that.
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And that's been, really a good place for them.
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But at the same time, though, Microsoft, which has even deeper legacy connections.
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Built mainframes and so on.
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They're now connected to open AI.
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So all of a sudden where Salesforce was able to say, we are a safe enterprise, but born digital, still forward thinking company now, Microsoft can make very similar claims and they have the same kind of relationships with very senior decision makers.
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I don't know, I would expect that they're trying to get in front of some of that.
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Yeah, no, it makes sense.
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They're probably fighting for similar budgets.
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And one thing that many have touched upon is and I think this has been making rounds online and in other places where basically people talk about most AI projects failing, and how a lot of them don't actually provide the ROI that they hope it will.
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This on the one hand makes sense because it's a new technology and there's a lot to be, to be figured out.
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But on the other, like he kind of like takes that out and then talks about bringing something that's better than a Clippy, better than Copilot, very anti Microsoft, he talks about doing bake offs liberally, et cetera.
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He's using very startup lingo, which is very interesting to see, because I think it's simultaneously very like big company.
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Strong, confident language.
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And on the other, it's clearly the undertones of being a challenger to someone who's got the first mover advantage is very, very interesting.
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Similar to Elon talking about grog being better than opening.
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I don't know.
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It's not right.
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I think here as well, but when we look at.
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That whole thing.
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And then we look at the demos, right?
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They're basically showing, Saks Fifth Avenue using it.
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A few people talk about evolving and changing as a company to meet people online instead of in stores about having hyper personalized shoppers.
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Then they go back to that and it will help augment humans, not replace them.
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So I feel like there's.
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It's not really gone all the way towards agentic behavior where it's still just a chatbot with the pre pre prepared like thing that a human can validate and send over.
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But to me that felt Very cool pilots.
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Yeah.
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And same, I think that you can, once again, you can interpret this a couple of ways.
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If we're being really charitable, it's crawl, walk, run.
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It's, how do we ease people into, this brave new world, but on the other side, it could also be like, and this is something that happens with these large organizations that they're Doing, they're painting a grandiose vision to make up for the fact that, Their actual product is behind the curve or like arguably so and I think it remains to be seen But I don't know like maybe this is more your wheelhouse Like do you like what do you think?
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Based on what you've been able to see and based on what we hear for people that are leveraging
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Look, I think that they're definitely not ahead of the curve, right?
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When it comes to voice, we've not seen them, right?
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Like we integrate with them.
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Salesforce is a great company.
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We're a happy customer, right?
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I live in Bridge Salesforce.
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When it comes to these models like they've had the budding AI practice that's never really made it into the big leagues.
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For the Ted Lasso fans, like they're like the club trying to make it into the Premier League, but have never really gotten there.
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Just recently they bought another voice company called Tenex a smaller company.
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Same team that previously got acquired by McDonald's and later sold off the spare parts to IBM.
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So I think those moves are there much like this announcement.
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Just to counter Microsoft and preserve relevance in the space.
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I don't really think that they've gotten to like the demo is a demo, right?
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What they've shown in terms of the builder and configurator it's not how enterprise voice assistants are built, right?
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Like it cannot be one prompt with a few words and then off you go again.
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I think for the same vision that Einstein had in terms of text and in terms of helping human Asians.
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It's great.
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And I think for that, they have the data, but I don't see why they're trying to compete with open AI with Microsoft and say that they've got better models.
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It is clear that they can have better, more targeted fine tuned models for each individual customer based on the data, right?
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This way, I felt a bit like they're really just taking a very broad sweep at.
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All of the competition needlessly.
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so I think broad is broad is what Salesforce does, right?
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They, and strategically it's a necessity.
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They're an everything company that it's full stack sales, marketing, CS, like you name it.
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And so it's one of those things where we're in tech.
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We, we think of in terms of trade offs, they're one of their biggest advantages is their ubiquity and the, the.
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Breadth of everything they offer.
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And by the same token, that breadth like forces them into a position where they have to be generalist about everything and they have to elbow people out otherwise.
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Otherwise they're potentially in trouble.
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But I wanted to dig into something that you said, cause you mentioned that the interface they show is not the right way to build voice AI assistance.
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But it might be sufficient for other things.
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Is this, does this I guess given those constraints or given that voice is, It's fundamentally different.
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Is there ever a world in which it gets properly incorporated into that kind of a, like a one stop one size fits all one stop shop thing, or does it need to be on its own?
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No, I don't think it has to necessarily
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live on its own.
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I think Salesforce is one of the players I think with the strongest, there is a great price to be had in the world of doing a lot of work in an automated way.
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With the right integrations.
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I think Salesforce is the kind of a key price asset compared to almost anything else out there to build, a huge number of autonomous functioning voice assistants that do a lot of work for a lot of companies, both in support and in sales and in everything else.
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They've definitely got a good launchpad to do it.
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I think they don't have the technology.
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They don't have the platform.
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They.
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And it's not so much about the model.
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I think about that, but much many of his, right?
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I think it's really more like full on suite of like solutions and everything from analytics to the actual like dialogue manager inside the voice assistant.
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Like how do you build and provide the control to people, right?
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In many ways, I think the fact that they're trying to go so broad doesn't allow him to go after the fact that, maybe we can't have, A fully autonomous voice assistant and they've demoed one and it's not bad, right?
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I think the real issue is if you build it into a, with technology that looks like what they demoed it's not actually going to work that way.
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And I think they we only need to wait until February and the GA for voice to see how well they get on.
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We've been doing a lot of work on other models and including end to end ones, and you can do a lot, but equally a lot is left.
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When people show those demos.
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So I think everything from the control to the third party integrations to actual safety and dealing with hallucinations and double hallucinations, which is what we call like when speech goes wrong, the agent goes off the rails.
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What do you do?
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I think it's also just a really good thing that they're doing this.
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I think that we've seen like research of interest and followers that you would not believe on LinkedIn and everywhere else.
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So thank you, Mark Benioff, much like Sam Altman for all that you do for, bringing to the attention of larger enterprises, the good work that we do as well.
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But yeah, I don't know.
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I think that there'll be something we'll see how much I think that they've done a lot historically any dream force to announce rebrand and show.
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And I think.
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People are like holding out their breath and waiting to see what's real versus what's just the general showmanship that they do each year.
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Yeah.
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And I guess when I think about it it setting aside how achievable any of this is for them or in the short term, whatever.
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I'm just interested in, In that future state vision that they're painting, right?
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It's one that as I said, it's okay, in some ways, they're trying to take AI out of it comes first out of the classroom out of the academy and then out of the I don't know that like the, whether it's weird garages of startups or whatever, but they're really trying to take it into the corporate boardroom.
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And it's already there.
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So I think just like in terms of what both open AI and then Microsoft did in the way that.
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Just in how impressive LLMs are, right?
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Big enterprises are already doing it.
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They are late to the game and just trying to come to their own phases.
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Yeah, they're
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doing
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it.
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Yeah,
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yeah.
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No, this is the point I'm trying to make.
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They've been doing it, but when you look at and I'm, up to my eyeballs and Consulting research and things like that.
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And so you look at what people say.
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It's yes, I think something like 80 percent of large organizations are either currently experimenting with gen AI, or they have plans to do it in the next year.
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But when it comes to like notions of ROI, they talk about innovation value and other like very, very squishy things.
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And I think that we're community adjusted EBITDA.
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Yeah, and so I think that, folks are feeling increasing pressure to let's be practical about this and let's like, think about a deployment that's not just, intellectually interesting, or doesn't just satisfy the fact that our board wants to know what we're doing with AI, but really is something that's going to be a step change in how we, function as an organization.
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And so that was the thing that intrigued me about, Salesforce, like putting their marketing muscle and their messaging muscle behind this multi agent vision of the future.
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Because I think for a lot of these large orgs, this might be the first time that they're really being given a permission structure to think in these ways.
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It's,
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Now,
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cause it's Salesforce trusted partners saying this is the future.
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And I think that has some real implications.
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And so I want to know your reaction to that.
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No, I look, I think it makes sense.
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I think the.
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Really in many ways what I found incredible as a B2B founder, the more like we've gone into it is there are, there's basically a dark web of companies that you don't get to sell to.
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As a small B2B company, right?
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Like you can sell it to a large bank because they have innovation departments.
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You can sell to all sorts of companies.
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You can develop a vertical speciality and then find the right channel to get to someone.
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But like both Microsoft and Salesforce are companies that, especially Microsoft, have government clients, healthcare clients, other clients that you just won't get to work with if you're a startup, right?
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So I think you're right.
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Like them like taking Silicon Valley lingo.
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Into the market out there, I think it's maybe necessary to use the kind of like confidence and bravado and going against Microsoft, but otherwise, they're there to help companies experiment.
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And because of who they are and what they do, I think there will be a great many company for whom they are the best stepping stone into that technology, right?
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Thing that gets a bit hairy here is that, AI is not really SAS, right?
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To derive meaningful enterprise value from AI, you really need to wrap yourself around like recreating workflows knowledge bases, integrations for that agent to harness, right?
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So the question is will their partners.
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Be able to do this just yet.
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And that, there are two questions, like how well have they enabled them and how good is the platform and can it be done, right?
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I think it's going to be a pretty tall order for there are very, very many partners to fully use this technology to create those kinds of outcomes yet, just because of where.
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The technology is not the models, but the application stack, right?
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Like computer networking, maybe there aren't seven layers, but there's quite a few.
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And I think that models, LLMs are like the bottom one, right?
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But who and what company uses it, uses that configurator, how they use it, how do they observe its behavior?
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When are they confident about releasing it?
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And again, I come back to if they are to take those baby steps, the first step very much looks like copilot, right?
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So those are marketing wars between Microsoft and Salesforce.
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And that's fine.
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We'll see how serious they are about any of this, but the skeptic in me almost goes if you're Salesforce, you want to talk about this so that if there is a crisis of ROI later when it hits, Microsoft hits you, you just weren't hit in the meantime, because you have.
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Been seen as a laggard in terms of AI.
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We see many of tweeting about his models being ready better than anyone else's.
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And I think, that doesn't really make them stand out next to Elon and the whole cabal.
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Because there's also this like heavy implication that they just have solved the data aggregation problem too with data cloud, that kind of thing.
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It's so we have everything.
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And and I just, color me skeptical.
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I have yet to, look under the hood of even a moderately sized business where everything is nice and in order.
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But like on that note I think, when I think of, It's like everything that you were talking about.
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I think it's the data aggregation piece.
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I think ways of working within the enterprise, like just like the cultural change necessary to roll these things out.
00:16:40.097 --> 00:16:43.398
I see as potential obstacles, but am I missing something?
00:16:43.398 --> 00:16:50.437
What else do you see is like making this kind of hard over the next, let's call it three to five year transition before we're all replaced by robots.
00:16:50.937 --> 00:16:52.398
Yeah many ways to feel that.
00:16:52.758 --> 00:16:54.217
Terms of making it real, right?
00:16:54.687 --> 00:16:58.398
They talked about Saks Fifth Avenue, then they demoed Sophie.
00:16:58.577 --> 00:17:02.307
If we call Saks Fifth Avenue now, Sophie's not there.
00:17:03.518 --> 00:17:05.768
So the first question is, where's Sophie?
00:17:06.317 --> 00:17:09.188
And I think that kind of goes back into what you talked about.
00:17:09.468 --> 00:17:11.688
The whole thing is a very messy affair, right?
00:17:11.738 --> 00:17:25.913
What you need to do inside that company to mobilize it towards having its data processes In a shape where you trust, let's say perfect AI or an infinite pool of really good agents to do the work well, it's a hard thing.
00:17:26.123 --> 00:17:27.492
It's a transformation, right?
00:17:27.863 --> 00:17:30.573
So will Salesforce be a part of this world?
00:17:31.073 --> 00:17:33.103
I think they have a birthright to be one of the winners.
00:17:33.742 --> 00:17:44.883
And I think there will be I think the pitch is feels a bit recycled, but it as we've seen, I think that we have quite a few customers that are excited about it they'll definitely have a fair shot at trying it out for voice.
00:17:44.883 --> 00:17:46.623
I don't think they've cracked it.
00:17:47.117 --> 00:17:50.667
Or are even close yet, but I'm excited to meeting Sophie.
00:17:51.417 --> 00:17:52.157
That makes two of us.
00:17:52.617 --> 00:17:54.067
Yeah, cool.
00:17:54.117 --> 00:17:55.208
Brian, I think we're out of time.
00:17:55.298 --> 00:18:00.028
Thank you for being a guest on the podcast for the first among many times, I hope.
00:18:00.147 --> 00:18:00.567
Thank you.
00:18:00.738 --> 00:18:03.048
Thank you all for listening and we'll see you in the next one.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.430
if we're being really charitable, it's crawl, walk, run.
00:00:03.770 --> 00:00:20.620
It's, how do we ease people into, this brave new world, but on the other side, it could also be like, and this is something that happens with these large organizations that they're Doing, they're painting a grandiose vision to make up for the fact that, Their actual product is behind the curve
00:00:29.579 --> 00:00:30.118
Hi everyone.
00:00:30.158 --> 00:00:37.679
And welcome to deep learning with poly AI today with me, I've got Brian Thompson, our VP of product marketing Brian, welcome to the podcast.
00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:38.929
Thanks for having me.
00:00:38.939 --> 00:00:39.749
It's really good to be here.
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First time.
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Yeah.
00:00:41.389 --> 00:00:42.048
Welcome on board.
00:00:42.149 --> 00:00:42.808
Long time listener.
00:00:42.808 --> 00:00:43.158
First time.
00:00:43.529 --> 00:00:44.459
Good, good, good, good.
00:00:44.518 --> 00:00:46.179
We'll try to get some first quarter resolution in.
00:00:46.609 --> 00:00:53.228
But look, I think today what would be really interesting is to cover the announcement of agent force by Salesforce.
00:00:53.628 --> 00:01:00.139
I think like every year dreamforce happened and the Salesforce hype bandwagon has been in like going full steam.
00:01:00.529 --> 00:01:01.238
So tell us what is
00:01:01.238 --> 00:01:01.829
AgentForce?
00:01:02.488 --> 00:01:03.819
Oh, what is AgentForce?
00:01:03.829 --> 00:01:10.948
So AgentForce gosh, it's so many things, but really I think at its core, it's this big strategic shift from Salesforce.
00:01:11.028 --> 00:01:13.968
Leading up to this, it was customer 360 last year and so on.
00:01:13.968 --> 00:01:14.899
That's what they've been building toward.
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But now they're saying actually the next stage is, Autonomous dedicated AI agents.
00:01:20.274 --> 00:01:33.686
It's their chance or their, their play for deploying AI in large organizations in ways that are discreet, ROI focused, and really answering all of these questions that we've had over the last couple of years of how do we start to get value out of these AI experiments.
00:01:34.007 --> 00:01:35.147
So that's one thing.
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It's this vision that they're painting.
00:01:37.007 --> 00:01:41.156
Another way of looking at it is it's a rebrand for Einstein Copilot.
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Because that's where we're starting at least.
00:01:43.781 --> 00:01:46.182
And they're looking to make new releases.
00:01:46.191 --> 00:01:50.451
Things are going GA over the next, months, two months, six months, and it's going, but there's a long road to hope.
00:01:51.772 --> 00:01:52.102
Yeah.
00:01:52.121 --> 00:01:52.391
Yeah.
00:01:52.391 --> 00:01:57.932
If you just read Reddit, some more cynical reviews say that Asian force is the rebranded Einstein co pilot.
00:01:58.462 --> 00:02:06.352
It's another one is a co pilot for like generative agents instead of the previous Einstein GPT announcement, which I think came last year.
00:02:06.841 --> 00:02:07.652
Not to be skeptical.
00:02:07.652 --> 00:02:17.842
I genuinely think that like Salesforce has so many things working in their favor in this ecosystem when it comes to the backend data interactions, et cetera.
00:02:18.146 --> 00:02:21.467
Benioff is going rampant talking about the fact that they have the best AI.
00:02:21.497 --> 00:02:31.137
And what really caught me by surprise in looking at, we're a bit like a mouse watching elephants stomp around, but it's very aggressive towards Microsoft, right?
00:02:31.576 --> 00:02:32.806
Like he talks about Clippy.
00:02:33.296 --> 00:02:36.157
He talks about co pilot not being it.
00:02:36.757 --> 00:02:49.412
I almost feel like there's a part where he's just talking And the genetic behavior that's like something that we haven't stopped talking about for the past 12 months as he's bringing it into the world of enterprise.
00:02:49.641 --> 00:02:50.442
What do you think about all that?
00:02:51.181 --> 00:02:51.741
Oh, okay.
00:02:51.771 --> 00:02:53.671
So there's multiple pieces there.
00:02:53.671 --> 00:03:00.271
First of all, why, why is Microsoft this present absence and why are we talking about Clippy and all of that?
00:03:00.762 --> 00:03:02.562
And I think that there's probably a couple of reasons there.
00:03:02.562 --> 00:03:05.961
Number one, so many of us were deeply scarred by Clippy.
00:03:06.051 --> 00:03:06.312
I love
00:03:06.592 --> 00:03:06.752
Clippy.
00:03:07.002 --> 00:03:07.872
I've said that before.
00:03:07.901 --> 00:03:09.271
Like I, okay, fine.
00:03:09.792 --> 00:03:10.671
Some of us love Clippy.
00:03:11.072 --> 00:03:15.581
But see the point being though, Clippy is like a universal point of reference and really,
00:03:16.977 --> 00:03:18.056
oh it's
00:03:18.056 --> 00:03:19.887
polarizing, polarizing, which is fine.
00:03:20.306 --> 00:03:21.796
But polarizing, but well known.
00:03:21.877 --> 00:03:32.537
And one of the leitmotifs of this presentation and kind of everything that Salesforce is doing is that they're trying to take AI out of the ether and make it really tangible, practical.
00:03:32.787 --> 00:03:33.736
Results oriented.
00:03:33.736 --> 00:03:36.257
And tying it to discrete things that people know about.
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I think it helps ground.
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It grounds it in that way.
00:03:38.856 --> 00:03:43.456
But also the other thing that I think they're aware of, because they're, they're smart, right?
00:03:44.067 --> 00:03:49.067
Salesforce has long connected the legacy enterprise with.
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Trends that are happening in Silicon Valley.
00:03:52.681 --> 00:03:53.312
It's their stick.
00:03:53.542 --> 00:03:56.602
They can take it and upscale it up level it and all that.
00:03:57.042 --> 00:03:59.282
And that's been, really a good place for them.
00:03:59.292 --> 00:04:03.701
But at the same time, though, Microsoft, which has even deeper legacy connections.
00:04:03.972 --> 00:04:05.382
Built mainframes and so on.
00:04:05.801 --> 00:04:07.361
They're now connected to open AI.
00:04:07.391 --> 00:04:20.192
So all of a sudden where Salesforce was able to say, we are a safe enterprise, but born digital, still forward thinking company now, Microsoft can make very similar claims and they have the same kind of relationships with very senior decision makers.
00:04:20.242 --> 00:04:23.021
I don't know, I would expect that they're trying to get in front of some of that.
00:04:23.822 --> 00:04:24.682
Yeah, no, it makes sense.
00:04:24.721 --> 00:04:26.262
They're probably fighting for similar budgets.
00:04:26.291 --> 00:04:40.661
And one thing that many have touched upon is and I think this has been making rounds online and in other places where basically people talk about most AI projects failing, and how a lot of them don't actually provide the ROI that they hope it will.
00:04:41.021 --> 00:04:45.752
This on the one hand makes sense because it's a new technology and there's a lot to be, to be figured out.
00:04:45.752 --> 00:04:57.021
But on the other, like he kind of like takes that out and then talks about bringing something that's better than a Clippy, better than Copilot, very anti Microsoft, he talks about doing bake offs liberally, et cetera.
00:04:57.031 --> 00:05:03.201
He's using very startup lingo, which is very interesting to see, because I think it's simultaneously very like big company.
00:05:03.666 --> 00:05:05.187
Strong, confident language.
00:05:05.206 --> 00:05:12.666
And on the other, it's clearly the undertones of being a challenger to someone who's got the first mover advantage is very, very interesting.
00:05:13.016 --> 00:05:15.357
Similar to Elon talking about grog being better than opening.
00:05:15.357 --> 00:05:16.166
I don't know.
00:05:16.177 --> 00:05:16.747
It's not right.
00:05:17.146 --> 00:05:20.007
I think here as well, but when we look at.
00:05:21.372 --> 00:05:22.201
That whole thing.
00:05:22.221 --> 00:05:24.281
And then we look at the demos, right?
00:05:24.661 --> 00:05:28.322
They're basically showing, Saks Fifth Avenue using it.
00:05:28.351 --> 00:05:36.031
A few people talk about evolving and changing as a company to meet people online instead of in stores about having hyper personalized shoppers.
00:05:36.372 --> 00:05:40.372
Then they go back to that and it will help augment humans, not replace them.
00:05:40.422 --> 00:05:41.271
So I feel like there's.
00:05:42.416 --> 00:05:52.307
It's not really gone all the way towards agentic behavior where it's still just a chatbot with the pre pre prepared like thing that a human can validate and send over.
00:05:52.656 --> 00:05:55.346
But to me that felt Very cool pilots.
00:05:56.507 --> 00:05:57.206
Yeah.
00:05:57.276 --> 00:06:03.507
And same, I think that you can, once again, you can interpret this a couple of ways.
00:06:03.557 --> 00:06:06.987
If we're being really charitable, it's crawl, walk, run.
00:06:07.326 --> 00:06:32.586
It's, how do we ease people into, this brave new world, but on the other side, it could also be like, and this is something that happens with these large organizations that they're Doing, they're painting a grandiose vision to make up for the fact that, Their actual product is behind the curve or like arguably so and I think it remains to be seen But I don't know like maybe this is more your wheelhouse Like do you like what do you think?
00:06:33.047 --> 00:06:36.766
Based on what you've been able to see and based on what we hear for people that are leveraging
00:06:39.107 --> 00:06:42.086
Look, I think that they're definitely not ahead of the curve, right?
00:06:42.416 --> 00:06:46.336
When it comes to voice, we've not seen them, right?
00:06:46.456 --> 00:06:47.617
Like we integrate with them.
00:06:47.867 --> 00:06:49.057
Salesforce is a great company.
00:06:49.117 --> 00:06:50.346
We're a happy customer, right?
00:06:50.797 --> 00:06:52.447
I live in Bridge Salesforce.
00:06:52.846 --> 00:06:58.726
When it comes to these models like they've had the budding AI practice that's never really made it into the big leagues.
00:06:58.966 --> 00:07:05.216
For the Ted Lasso fans, like they're like the club trying to make it into the Premier League, but have never really gotten there.
00:07:05.266 --> 00:07:08.937
Just recently they bought another voice company called Tenex a smaller company.
00:07:09.346 --> 00:07:15.286
Same team that previously got acquired by McDonald's and later sold off the spare parts to IBM.
00:07:15.297 --> 00:07:19.016
So I think those moves are there much like this announcement.
00:07:19.601 --> 00:07:25.591
Just to counter Microsoft and preserve relevance in the space.
00:07:26.031 --> 00:07:30.721
I don't really think that they've gotten to like the demo is a demo, right?
00:07:30.742 --> 00:07:37.562
What they've shown in terms of the builder and configurator it's not how enterprise voice assistants are built, right?
00:07:37.901 --> 00:07:42.041
Like it cannot be one prompt with a few words and then off you go again.
00:07:42.041 --> 00:07:47.581
I think for the same vision that Einstein had in terms of text and in terms of helping human Asians.
00:07:47.942 --> 00:07:48.362
It's great.
00:07:48.442 --> 00:07:56.591
And I think for that, they have the data, but I don't see why they're trying to compete with open AI with Microsoft and say that they've got better models.
00:07:56.951 --> 00:08:02.812
It is clear that they can have better, more targeted fine tuned models for each individual customer based on the data, right?
00:08:03.291 --> 00:08:08.672
This way, I felt a bit like they're really just taking a very broad sweep at.
00:08:09.646 --> 00:08:11.406
All of the competition needlessly.
00:08:11.630 --> 00:08:16.161
so I think broad is broad is what Salesforce does, right?
00:08:16.490 --> 00:08:18.940
They, and strategically it's a necessity.
00:08:18.940 --> 00:08:23.461
They're an everything company that it's full stack sales, marketing, CS, like you name it.
00:08:23.800 --> 00:08:26.750
And so it's one of those things where we're in tech.
00:08:26.821 --> 00:08:33.020
We, we think of in terms of trade offs, they're one of their biggest advantages is their ubiquity and the, the.
00:08:33.451 --> 00:08:35.000
Breadth of everything they offer.
00:08:35.510 --> 00:08:44.431
And by the same token, that breadth like forces them into a position where they have to be generalist about everything and they have to elbow people out otherwise.
00:08:45.520 --> 00:08:47.150
Otherwise they're potentially in trouble.
00:08:47.650 --> 00:08:56.081
But I wanted to dig into something that you said, cause you mentioned that the interface they show is not the right way to build voice AI assistance.
00:08:56.451 --> 00:08:58.711
But it might be sufficient for other things.
00:08:58.721 --> 00:09:04.360
Is this, does this I guess given those constraints or given that voice is, It's fundamentally different.
00:09:04.370 --> 00:09:13.701
Is there ever a world in which it gets properly incorporated into that kind of a, like a one stop one size fits all one stop shop thing, or does it need to be on its own?
00:09:14.081 --> 00:09:15.951
No, I don't think it has to necessarily
00:09:16.181 --> 00:09:17.150
live on its own.
00:09:17.150 --> 00:09:26.230
I think Salesforce is one of the players I think with the strongest, there is a great price to be had in the world of doing a lot of work in an automated way.
00:09:26.610 --> 00:09:27.620
With the right integrations.
00:09:27.620 --> 00:09:41.520
I think Salesforce is the kind of a key price asset compared to almost anything else out there to build, a huge number of autonomous functioning voice assistants that do a lot of work for a lot of companies, both in support and in sales and in everything else.
00:09:41.571 --> 00:09:43.421
They've definitely got a good launchpad to do it.
00:09:43.471 --> 00:09:45.051
I think they don't have the technology.
00:09:45.270 --> 00:09:46.551
They don't have the platform.
00:09:46.691 --> 00:09:47.071
They.
00:09:47.620 --> 00:09:49.260
And it's not so much about the model.
00:09:49.260 --> 00:09:51.691
I think about that, but much many of his, right?
00:09:52.091 --> 00:10:01.650
I think it's really more like full on suite of like solutions and everything from analytics to the actual like dialogue manager inside the voice assistant.
00:10:01.660 --> 00:10:05.191
Like how do you build and provide the control to people, right?
00:10:05.510 --> 00:10:17.120
In many ways, I think the fact that they're trying to go so broad doesn't allow him to go after the fact that, maybe we can't have, A fully autonomous voice assistant and they've demoed one and it's not bad, right?
00:10:17.451 --> 00:10:23.561
I think the real issue is if you build it into a, with technology that looks like what they demoed it's not actually going to work that way.
00:10:23.890 --> 00:10:31.150
And I think they we only need to wait until February and the GA for voice to see how well they get on.
00:10:31.581 --> 00:10:37.941
We've been doing a lot of work on other models and including end to end ones, and you can do a lot, but equally a lot is left.
00:10:38.802 --> 00:10:40.101
When people show those demos.
00:10:40.341 --> 00:10:53.251
So I think everything from the control to the third party integrations to actual safety and dealing with hallucinations and double hallucinations, which is what we call like when speech goes wrong, the agent goes off the rails.
00:10:53.292 --> 00:10:53.831
What do you do?
00:10:54.011 --> 00:10:56.192
I think it's also just a really good thing that they're doing this.
00:10:56.192 --> 00:11:02.192
I think that we've seen like research of interest and followers that you would not believe on LinkedIn and everywhere else.
00:11:02.192 --> 00:11:10.692
So thank you, Mark Benioff, much like Sam Altman for all that you do for, bringing to the attention of larger enterprises, the good work that we do as well.
00:11:11.072 --> 00:11:12.272
But yeah, I don't know.
00:11:12.312 --> 00:11:19.772
I think that there'll be something we'll see how much I think that they've done a lot historically any dream force to announce rebrand and show.
00:11:19.772 --> 00:11:20.231
And I think.
00:11:20.902 --> 00:11:27.642
People are like holding out their breath and waiting to see what's real versus what's just the general showmanship that they do each year.
00:11:28.461 --> 00:11:28.841
Yeah.
00:11:29.131 --> 00:11:35.721
And I guess when I think about it it setting aside how achievable any of this is for them or in the short term, whatever.
00:11:36.231 --> 00:11:39.692
I'm just interested in, In that future state vision that they're painting, right?
00:11:39.692 --> 00:11:57.331
It's one that as I said, it's okay, in some ways, they're trying to take AI out of it comes first out of the classroom out of the academy and then out of the I don't know that like the, whether it's weird garages of startups or whatever, but they're really trying to take it into the corporate boardroom.
00:11:57.851 --> 00:11:59.241
And it's already there.
00:11:59.251 --> 00:12:05.481
So I think just like in terms of what both open AI and then Microsoft did in the way that.
00:12:06.062 --> 00:12:08.402
Just in how impressive LLMs are, right?
00:12:08.802 --> 00:12:10.101
Big enterprises are already doing it.
00:12:10.111 --> 00:12:12.111
They are late to the game and just trying to come to their own phases.
00:12:12.111 --> 00:12:12.412
Yeah, they're
00:12:12.412 --> 00:12:12.652
doing
00:12:12.652 --> 00:12:12.892
it.
00:12:12.892 --> 00:12:13.091
Yeah,
00:12:13.172 --> 00:12:13.422
yeah.
00:12:13.501 --> 00:12:14.951
No, this is the point I'm trying to make.
00:12:15.052 --> 00:12:20.951
They've been doing it, but when you look at and I'm, up to my eyeballs and Consulting research and things like that.
00:12:20.951 --> 00:12:22.601
And so you look at what people say.
00:12:22.642 --> 00:12:29.822
It's yes, I think something like 80 percent of large organizations are either currently experimenting with gen AI, or they have plans to do it in the next year.
00:12:30.261 --> 00:12:39.326
But when it comes to like notions of ROI, they talk about innovation value and other like very, very squishy things.
00:12:39.326 --> 00:12:42.837
And I think that we're community adjusted EBITDA.
00:12:42.837 --> 00:13:05.337
Yeah, and so I think that, folks are feeling increasing pressure to let's be practical about this and let's like, think about a deployment that's not just, intellectually interesting, or doesn't just satisfy the fact that our board wants to know what we're doing with AI, but really is something that's going to be a step change in how we, function as an organization.
00:13:05.388 --> 00:13:14.508
And so that was the thing that intrigued me about, Salesforce, like putting their marketing muscle and their messaging muscle behind this multi agent vision of the future.
00:13:14.508 --> 00:13:21.197
Because I think for a lot of these large orgs, this might be the first time that they're really being given a permission structure to think in these ways.
00:13:21.317 --> 00:13:21.528
It's,
00:13:21.577 --> 00:13:21.712
Now,
00:13:21.712 --> 00:13:24.873
cause it's Salesforce trusted partners saying this is the future.
00:13:25.232 --> 00:13:27.043
And I think that has some real implications.
00:13:27.043 --> 00:13:28.743
And so I want to know your reaction to that.
00:13:29.523 --> 00:13:30.673
No, I look, I think it makes sense.
00:13:30.673 --> 00:13:31.182
I think the.
00:13:31.982 --> 00:13:43.832
Really in many ways what I found incredible as a B2B founder, the more like we've gone into it is there are, there's basically a dark web of companies that you don't get to sell to.
00:13:44.212 --> 00:13:45.793
As a small B2B company, right?
00:13:46.232 --> 00:13:49.472
Like you can sell it to a large bank because they have innovation departments.
00:13:49.472 --> 00:13:51.773
You can sell to all sorts of companies.
00:13:51.773 --> 00:13:56.003
You can develop a vertical speciality and then find the right channel to get to someone.
00:13:56.643 --> 00:14:06.202
But like both Microsoft and Salesforce are companies that, especially Microsoft, have government clients, healthcare clients, other clients that you just won't get to work with if you're a startup, right?
00:14:06.543 --> 00:14:08.393
So I think you're right.
00:14:08.393 --> 00:14:11.643
Like them like taking Silicon Valley lingo.
00:14:12.057 --> 00:14:22.378
Into the market out there, I think it's maybe necessary to use the kind of like confidence and bravado and going against Microsoft, but otherwise, they're there to help companies experiment.
00:14:22.418 --> 00:14:31.118
And because of who they are and what they do, I think there will be a great many company for whom they are the best stepping stone into that technology, right?
00:14:32.212 --> 00:14:36.802
Thing that gets a bit hairy here is that, AI is not really SAS, right?
00:14:37.102 --> 00:14:48.783
To derive meaningful enterprise value from AI, you really need to wrap yourself around like recreating workflows knowledge bases, integrations for that agent to harness, right?
00:14:48.783 --> 00:14:50.883
So the question is will their partners.
00:14:51.347 --> 00:14:52.927
Be able to do this just yet.
00:14:52.988 --> 00:14:58.488
And that, there are two questions, like how well have they enabled them and how good is the platform and can it be done, right?
00:14:58.977 --> 00:15:09.508
I think it's going to be a pretty tall order for there are very, very many partners to fully use this technology to create those kinds of outcomes yet, just because of where.
00:15:09.952 --> 00:15:13.763
The technology is not the models, but the application stack, right?
00:15:14.003 --> 00:15:17.423
Like computer networking, maybe there aren't seven layers, but there's quite a few.
00:15:17.863 --> 00:15:21.332
And I think that models, LLMs are like the bottom one, right?
00:15:21.673 --> 00:15:27.393
But who and what company uses it, uses that configurator, how they use it, how do they observe its behavior?
00:15:27.753 --> 00:15:29.472
When are they confident about releasing it?
00:15:30.033 --> 00:15:35.283
And again, I come back to if they are to take those baby steps, the first step very much looks like copilot, right?
00:15:35.613 --> 00:15:39.903
So those are marketing wars between Microsoft and Salesforce.
00:15:39.903 --> 00:15:40.432
And that's fine.
00:15:40.722 --> 00:15:54.523
We'll see how serious they are about any of this, but the skeptic in me almost goes if you're Salesforce, you want to talk about this so that if there is a crisis of ROI later when it hits, Microsoft hits you, you just weren't hit in the meantime, because you have.
00:15:55.043 --> 00:15:56.903
Been seen as a laggard in terms of AI.
00:15:56.903 --> 00:16:00.923
We see many of tweeting about his models being ready better than anyone else's.
00:16:00.923 --> 00:16:05.202
And I think, that doesn't really make them stand out next to Elon and the whole cabal.
00:16:06.403 --> 00:16:14.773
Because there's also this like heavy implication that they just have solved the data aggregation problem too with data cloud, that kind of thing.
00:16:14.773 --> 00:16:15.623
It's so we have everything.
00:16:16.173 --> 00:16:18.702
And and I just, color me skeptical.
00:16:19.003 --> 00:16:24.513
I have yet to, look under the hood of even a moderately sized business where everything is nice and in order.
00:16:25.043 --> 00:16:30.908
But like on that note I think, when I think of, It's like everything that you were talking about.
00:16:30.908 --> 00:16:32.947
I think it's the data aggregation piece.
00:16:33.457 --> 00:16:40.097
I think ways of working within the enterprise, like just like the cultural change necessary to roll these things out.
00:16:40.097 --> 00:16:43.398
I see as potential obstacles, but am I missing something?
00:16:43.398 --> 00:16:50.437
What else do you see is like making this kind of hard over the next, let's call it three to five year transition before we're all replaced by robots.
00:16:50.937 --> 00:16:52.398
Yeah many ways to feel that.
00:16:52.758 --> 00:16:54.217
Terms of making it real, right?
00:16:54.687 --> 00:16:58.398
They talked about Saks Fifth Avenue, then they demoed Sophie.
00:16:58.577 --> 00:17:02.307
If we call Saks Fifth Avenue now, Sophie's not there.
00:17:03.518 --> 00:17:05.768
So the first question is, where's Sophie?
00:17:06.317 --> 00:17:09.188
And I think that kind of goes back into what you talked about.
00:17:09.468 --> 00:17:11.688
The whole thing is a very messy affair, right?
00:17:11.738 --> 00:17:25.913
What you need to do inside that company to mobilize it towards having its data processes In a shape where you trust, let's say perfect AI or an infinite pool of really good agents to do the work well, it's a hard thing.
00:17:26.123 --> 00:17:27.492
It's a transformation, right?
00:17:27.863 --> 00:17:30.573
So will Salesforce be a part of this world?
00:17:31.073 --> 00:17:33.103
I think they have a birthright to be one of the winners.
00:17:33.742 --> 00:17:44.883
And I think there will be I think the pitch is feels a bit recycled, but it as we've seen, I think that we have quite a few customers that are excited about it they'll definitely have a fair shot at trying it out for voice.
00:17:44.883 --> 00:17:46.623
I don't think they've cracked it.
00:17:47.117 --> 00:17:50.667
Or are even close yet, but I'm excited to meeting Sophie.
00:17:51.417 --> 00:17:52.157
That makes two of us.
00:17:52.617 --> 00:17:54.067
Yeah, cool.
00:17:54.117 --> 00:17:55.208
Brian, I think we're out of time.
00:17:55.298 --> 00:18:00.028
Thank you for being a guest on the podcast for the first among many times, I hope.
00:18:00.147 --> 00:18:00.567
Thank you.
00:18:00.738 --> 00:18:03.048
Thank you all for listening and we'll see you in the next one.
