Ross: I am Ross. I am a freelance illustrator, designer, animator. as much as it's important to be able to share your work around and everything, it's so important to be able to just sit with your process and really, really get to grips with that, the more you do that, the more that you sit and just create with your own time with like no distractions, the more that you feel more comfortable in what you're creating.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yeah.
Ross: I really see stripped a lot of, what actually brought me into this space in the first place
Heather: I'm joined by Ross Martin, illustrator, designer, animator, Ross doesn't spend more time chasing trends or trying to fit in into particular creative mould. Instead, he focuses on ideas, curiosity, and making work that feels authentic to who he is. In this conversation we talk about creative confidence, embracing imperfection, And why the process often matters more than the final outcome. Ross shares how animation shaped the way he sees people and storytelling. Why showing the human side of creativity is more important than ever. And what happened when he stopped trying to look like a bigger agency And started showing up as himself. We also explore the value of world building, following ideas that excite you, create opportunities instead of waiting for them, And the importance of making things happen on your own terms. A thoughtful conversation about creativity, authenticity, and trusting yourself enough to put your work into the world.
Ross: one year of my current setup really, because I've been freelanced for, I've been freelance for, I think coming up to either four or five years, I lose count now. but yeah, it was last, May that I started this brand of myself. and yeah, it's
Heather Ebanks: Okay. Mm-hmm.
Ross: It's been, it's been an interesting year, really. It's been really exciting. And it's the first time that I've really felt really settled in what I'm doing. So when it, when a year came by, for one, I didn't really, hadn't, I hadn't thought that it actually been a whole year for a start, but then also at the same time, it felt as though it's been ages since I've, since I've had this brand and, and, and been kind of
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Ross: showing up as I have been. And I think it's been good to reflect on that really and to see like where I've come from around it as well as exciting as it is and how excited I am kind of to keep going with this brand. It's been interesting to look back and see the process of being freelancer.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm. I think it's good to some creators, I feel like they're a bit, a bit, I don't know, icky about celebrating their wins. And I think we definitely need to keep doing that a lot more, whether it's on social media even for ourselves, when you hear the words bold voices messy journeys zero apologies what part of your journey does that resonate with the most?
Ross: That's a really interesting question. I think that... I think the latter, the last one, the zero apologies one, as much as it is what resonated with the most, but not in a sense that, not in an abrasive way at all. More just that I've been quite fortunate that I think I haven't ever really felt too self-conscious about the work which I create. Like there's been times before where it's happened where I've been
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: that kind of imposter syndrome takes over sometimes. But in a general sense, I kind of don't really have, because I have so many ideas I don't really have time to think too much about the response I might get or be too critical over the work itself. I just have such a
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Ross: inherent need to just make things that I guess that's kind of zero apology is just very much. I think of an idea for a while usually. I then create what that is in my head once I've kind of mapped out my head and then I put it out there and that's kind of as simple as it is really. And yeah, I think that
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Ross: I've gotten much more comfortable with that as time has gone on, especially as a freelancer, but as a creator in general, just leaning in to yourself and knowing yourself and just back in your own work really. And then, yeah, having zero apologies around it. I think people do resonate with that a lot more as well, I think, because you're being much more authentic with yourself as well.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm. That was perfect. Because the next question was, you've already answered what I was about to ask you was about how you've what helped you to become more comfortable in your own way of thinking. It sounds like some that's a great start because a lot of creatives, they battle with that on a regular basis before they even, you know, work with anybody or, you know, start their business. And so where did you think that stems from? Do you think that, you know, was it You've always been like that or is it something that you had to learn over the time of running your business?
Ross: That's right, yeah, again, another good question. I think that... I've never really thought about it too much. Luckily, I'd say. but specifically around and in the creative industry. I came from a place which I was much more inexperienced compared to like say my peers when I came out of uni. I went into the creative scene here and as much as there were times when I was thinking like is this actually really suited for me because I always felt as though I was like a little bit of an oddball in terms of
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: in terms of my relationship with just the creative industry in general. I my inexperience around… the industry in general weirdly actually helped me be more confident around it because I kind of knowing less of the scope around it kind of kind of gave me less to worry about. I guess I'm not sure it's. But I mean, before before that, I mean, talking about, say, even as going back as far as like my childhood and all that, like I've I've been fortunate to to have a good family around me.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Ross: good friends and all that through school and everything like that were.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: I was never made to feel... like critical of my own output really, of creatively. And I've always found space as much as I was quite a social child. I I really valued my own time when I wanted to create and I always like found time to do that. And so I think that like, as much as it's important to be able to share your work around and everything, it's so important to be able to just sit with your process and really, really get to grips with that, you know, and the more you do that, the more that you sit and just create with your own time with like no distractions, the more that you feel more comfortable in what you're creating. So yeah, I think that that's probably where a lot of it comes from or stems from, but
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: It took a while to really feel settled and to find my own lane.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Excellent. And I think a lot more creatives shy away from, you know, bringing their full selves into their work. as we're designers and creatives, some people feel that, you know, we're too emotional about our work. And it's a part of us. We take it personally and also it shapes us. You know, we take our influences, like you said, from your confidence and your... your skills and not just the technical side, but also the processes as well the relationship with your creativity, when did it shift from being say mainly a finished outcome, for example, to becoming more about the process itself?
Ross: Ooh. I've always found it really difficult to actually... to. I guess make note of the process when I'm actually creating things. It's so important. It's the joy of that, right? But it's the joy of creating is the process throughout. And I would say most creators, if not everyone will probably agree with that. But I don't do a lot of it in the moment to be fair, but one thing which like, mean, animation is something which is like, has been a massive part of my creative upbringing really through when I was younger, I'd make
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yeah. Mm. Mm.
Ross: flash animations, cartoons, think to that. I kind of grew up, even though I started off with drawing and illustrating to that, that's when I kind of moved on to, moved on to creating animations and stuff when I was, when I was younger. And there's something about the process of that, which, I mean, you have to be so patient with it. That'd be so patient with, with the process of that. It's not as quick as just creating.
Heather Ebanks: yeah, Mm. Mm.
Ross: illustration and put now online or or whatnot but you have to really like romanticize the process of that and really get in get really stuck in with it that
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Hmm
Ross: Having that as part of my journey really now shapes the way that I mentally sit within that space, within the process. But a lot of it comes with...
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Ross: the idea itself of making something, whether it's for a client or whether it's just for your own, for your, of your own back, for yourself and for your own enjoyment.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Ross: The most important thing for me is the idea. And I'll usually sit with it. If I have time and it's not like a, if it's not strict deadline or anything like that, I'll try and sit with the idea in my head for as long as possible. I feel like I'm pretty good at visualizing what I want to create once I've had like a good think about it. And that could be an animation or iteration, a branding project, whatever it is really. But the more I allow myself to
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Ross: sit with the idea first as part of the process really. It's part of it really. it saves me so much time when I actually get onto actually creating because in my head I've already mapped it out. It's something which I really hold onto as much as possible because it falls into say, yeah, illustration, animation, design, whatever it is really,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ross: It also, motivates me more to actually go and create it once I've thought about it for a while, instead of just stepping into a straight away. And some people I think are quite different in that way. think that if someone thinks about an idea for too long, they might overthink it. or, or it might just be a way of procrastinating and getting, getting started with it, which we've all been there, but it's, it's, yeah, it's a, it's a big part of my process now of, is that first step is.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, Yeah, definitely. Mmm. Yes.
Ross: to just sit with the idea for as long as I possibly can really without it being absurdly long before I get started and then can go straight into actually creating.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Hmm. Hmm. There's definitely a fine line for creatives. I could resonate with this where, you know, when to like, continue with an idea and when to let it drop and when to follow it through. And then there's that fine line of over analyzing something. So what do you feel with regards to creativity and creatives who specifically focus too much on perfection and more on exploration? Is there a way as creatives understand the two and when to use it in our work?
Ross: Yeah, that balance can be so difficult, especially because you can be so critical of your own work.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yeah.
Ross: because really sitting in that imperfection and that play of creating is such an important part of it. But I understand if creatives struggle with the idea of putting out something which might be like half finished by their standard maybe, or...
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Ross: Yeah, then that balance between that and something which feels much more complete, but
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: I've always really enjoyed when something, even though I work digitally, I don't really do much stuff in more traditional methods. I still always enjoy seeing things which like a brushstroke, which like maybe just looks slightly more messy or like something which, which like a creative could have cleared up really as part of process, but hasn't whether they've just because they've gone about it or because it's intentional. I love that.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Ross: regardless of what it is, because it just shows that it's showing that process throughout the actual final thing. And I guess just more and more with how quick people consume things now, it's becoming more increasingly important to showcase more of that.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yeah, definitely.
Ross: human side of creating, whether that be through the process and imperfections and things like that, compared to a final thing, which maybe even algorithmically isn't going to be picked up as well because you're not showing your face or I'm a sucker for it really, because I hardly ever actually record my process or I do try and clean up my designs as much as possible and things like that when
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Ross: basically the people who follow along with your journey and the people who are going to probably resonate the most with what you're creating, especially as an individual creative, they want to see you through it. And a lot of that is the imperfections and granted, it depends on what industry you're in, because sometimes I think, wow, maybe not. think that in basically any industry, it can show up in different ways, but it's say like a corporate design setting. You probably want things to feel much more.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Ross: a whole and complete before you put it out to the world. But I think there's always space to bring that human element into it.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah. that balance of knowing how much pull out of yourself and your working and behind the scenes and I know there's a lot of pressure for the creatives to do a lot more of that it's just showing, like you say, the human side of being a creative and that it's not AI has we all that lovely subject we'd love to talk about or not talk about.
Ross: Hehehehe
Heather Ebanks: But showing the human side of being a creative and showing that what we as designers are about. definitely. Do you think the creative industry places like too much value on the polished outcomes and not over the thoughtful kind of process inside of things?
Ross: say so as a whole, I would say so. But it's it's in a lot of spaces, it's necessary. Because depends on who it's for as well, right? It depends on is also just based on I guess, pressures from like marketing spaces and budgets and all this kind of stuff like that. A lot of different clients are going to want something which feels complete, even though it might be complete, it might just
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Ross: look a little bit more as part of process or human made or whatever. But there is that inherent. pressure, I think, from the industry itself to value something which is completely polished and fleshed out. I've seen more and more, and you've probably seen it as well, a lot of, I guess, as part of a anti-AI trend or whatever, seems to be more and more brands and businesses valuing things which feel much more
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: human made in a way that it values the process. And a lot of, I've seen more and more marketing campaigns actually instead of showcasing say a product, they're showcasing the behind the scenes of shooting the ad for the product kind of thing. Like that's almost like an extension off of the actual ad itself. And it's great to see.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Ross: And we'll probably see more and more of it until we're sick of seeing the behind the scenes and we're like, actually, can you show us the final thing now? you know what mean? But I think at the moment it's still probably, yeah, it's still very much a situation where most people would value the final thing more. And I think that can be quite damaging as well, especially with AI and everything like that coming in, where in both cases you're going to see
Heather Ebanks: Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
Ross: a final outcome, whatever quality that is, is, you know, it's up to, up to debate, but you're going to say you, mean, clients and people, even customers and whoever it is really, who's interacting with, with, whatever you're creating is there is a fine line where they might not
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Ross: put value into what's been created because they don't understand the process. And the thoughts and the planning and everything which goes into that part of it. But it's fighting the right battle though, because at the same time, say for example, you're creating some artwork to promote like a new skincare product or something like that. It's, if a final
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Hmm. Mm.
Ross: person who's going to interact with that, the customer, whatever, if they're not going to really, if they're not particularly creative or they don't understand the process anyway, they're not going to see a difference necessarily. So it's, it's, it's making sure you're fighting the right battle with all that kind of stuff and making sure that you put your foot down and hold strong to like who, who you are and your principles as a designer and everything like that.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Hmm.
Ross: within industry which might feel a little bit relentless, but knowing when to put your foot down in those environments rather than trying to combat everything, you know, at every stage.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Have you ever personally struggled with the pressure to make your work look or feel a certain way, know, air quotes, professional kind of look and for the industry.
Ross: I'd say so, yeah. I mean... good example of that for me was a little bit earlier on into my freelance journey. I started off as just representing myself as an individual freelancer. And it was going fairly well for what it was worth, but I I felt as though I kind of outgrew that first initial step, first couple of years really. And I was looking for a way to, I guess, reintroduce myself.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Ross: but to try and fit into a different box really within the industry. And so I,
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: I started up what essentially is a fake studio, it's me, but I wanted to make it look a little bit more as if it was like more of an agency space. And run with that for about a year or so. But in that time, I for one, wasn't really clued up for what I was doing anyway, at that point. Obviously freelancing is always a learning.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Ross: opportunity, every single step is a learning opportunity anyway. But I realized over the year which I was doing that, that this really wasn't actually representative of like who I wanted to be as a creative. And I didn't want that really for my freelance career. And so
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Ross: It was a tough lesson to learn, but that, think it all came from a pressure from the industry really for me, I think that.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah.
Ross: that that's what I thought was necessary for me to expand on my freelance situation or like, say, for example, if I wanted to attract bigger clients or anything like that, that I've got to show up in this way and I've got to do this, but it wasn't particularly authentic to me and, who I was. I really see stripped a lot of, what actually brought me into this space in the first place when I showed up as, as more of a, agency.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Yeah. Mm. Mm.
Ross: in that sense. So yeah, I think that's probably, I haven't really had, I don't think much of a pressure aside from that to, to feel as though I've to be shaped in a certain way or even smaller things like even within projects and anything like that. think that understanding the industry and understanding, say the particular sector which you're working in for project is important, but still
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm.
Ross: doubling down with your experience and your decisions is like such an important thing. So being swayed by say, I don't know, design trends or, or, or tickle people's work, or if someone says something on LinkedIn about you should be doing this and this and that or whatever. I think that
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: you've got to just keep, you just got to keep head strong really with that kind of stuff and understand that if you're new to it, then obviously it could be quite difficult, but if you've had a good sort of like two or three years with dealing with that kind of stuff, you would hopefully know yourself a bit better than at least when you started. So you can kind of hold onto that bit more and to make sure that you just stick, stick in that lane really and understand yourself and you'd have to shape yourself for that. know what mean?
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Mm. Mm. definitely. I'm just thinking, as you were saying that, if I was like, maybe seeing it from a client's perspective, I probably respect a creative or designer more that they, with their values and their beliefs and their mission, and then they haven't followed a trend, because I wouldn't want to work with the creative who doesn't know themselves and know their beliefs. And I would come to them specifically with a certain set of skills that, you know, I would, if I wanted to go to it, there's loads of designers out there, but as a client, want to know that, for example, if they're designing my brand, that I will want them to know my mission and my beliefs. And I would come to them for that particular reason that we have that in common. If I find that halfway through a project, the designers decided to go 180 and go in a totally different direction because they've got, you know, know, like a magpie saw something else, go, let's try this. And then the design is totally different. That will be worrying for me, especially when there's budgets involved, yeah, it's definitely true.
Ross: Absolutely.
Heather Ebanks: I'm going to talk about more about your animation because you mentioned this earlier what does animation allow you to express emotionally about, compared to static design for example, that illustration sometimes can't.
Ross: It's all about storytelling really, and that's where I start with it. Illustration allows that as well, but in a different way. Animation, I feel as though it lets you sit within it a lot more. Whether it be a four second animation or a full blown feature film, know, it's creating a world which you can add more nuance to that space. Even really simple GIF animations compared to really complex setups.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Ross: still allows so much more nuance to the character's expression and the way they move for example or
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: For me, that's the crux of it. I think that's... me that's why I do love it. think realistically it's something which you can sit in for longer. It allows you to be able to really sit with it for a lot more. The other thing as well is like a lot of inspiration for me comes from different avenues of creative fields and everything like that. It's not necessarily just visual side stuff. I do love music and I've
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm. Mm.
Ross: made music as well in the past and so there's a bit of sound design which comes with animation in general if it's not like a silent animation it's not like a gif or whatever it is so I've been fascinated by creating the sound for animations as well as part of the process and be able to again
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Ross: sit within that space and that world for longer. Whether that be actually creating musical bits or if it's a sound effect of birds or real world environments, things like that, and putting it all together and timing it so that, again, visually in my head, being able to time it in a way that I'm like, okay, cool. So those are the different points, which are the key points of the animation It's...
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: It's all about world building for sure. like any kind of illustration based thing anyway for me, but yeah, just allow us for so much more space and nuance.
Heather Ebanks: Do you think animation has made people observe? I know we talked about the human side of creativity, but has animation made you observe people differently when you create animations?
Ross: It definitely makes you. like take notice of things more. Because... Yeah... I... I think it lets you understand people's perspective more. So whether it be the characters you're creating or whether it's just something which you're actually watching yourself and taking in.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: There's such complexity to anyone, any kind of character within animation specifically.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: It's also such a tricky balance though, especially within just storytelling in general, to give the viewer enough room to really understand the people who are within the scene, whatever you're creating, but also keeping back enough that there's, you're not giving everything to somebody and that there's
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: enough of straight there that you're curious about that, you know, I think that like some of the most, I guess, pivotal, the most famous piece of art out there, for example, are ones which you're constantly always asking questions about because there's just so much intrigue about, say, for example, a particular character's person's facial expression or things like that being like, what do think they were thinking at that time or whatever? And there's restraint there.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: But I think with animation, you can get more, but it's still important to recognise that you've got to balance it between the two really of giving people something which they can latch onto emotionally and something which they also want to figure out more. And I think that that's what...
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm. Mm.
Ross: I've learnt the most, I'd say, out of...
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Ross: animation compared to still imagery but how I
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: how I take an influence from say like the world around me and the people I've met and different characters around me in my real life, know, in the real world. Yeah,
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm. interesting you saying about, you don't want to give everything away we're so familiar with the human form and the body and the facial expressions. And I think it's like movies. a very good trailer. is very important. you don't want everybody to give all the answers and fill in the gaps within the trailer before you've seen the movie. And I can see that the animation part of like, you want to give that emotional side to it, but you don't want to go all out and you do the polished, rendering, etc. But sometimes it just loses its, you know, people start picking holes at those kind of overly done animations. I think with your one, it adds a charm to the animations. It wants to engage into the wanting to know more kind of side of things and keep pulling that back. I think like you were saying, finding that balance,
Ross: Yeah, it's funny you say that about trailers to be fair. I agree. I'm sure a lot of people do to be fair, it's
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Ross: I think it's so important to be able to capture, especially when a trailer is wanting to advertise the film, but it's wanting to bring you in to that world momentarily without spoiling anything. And some do it better than others. what I want out of something like that, which I also think bring to my own creative space is
Heather Ebanks: Yeah. Mm.
Ross: I wanted to understand the world, the tone of it, the emotion around it, at least to an entry level. You know, like you don't want to give all of the emotion. might, that might be what a lot of the spoiler might be, for example, if we're talking about films again, but it's...
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah.
Ross: it's bringing something into the world which... people can latch onto and people can feel as though they can live in.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Ross: but having again that restraint to understand that it's sometimes not good to give everything to somebody straight away because you need to let them themselves get
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: encouraged to be a part of that space. I think that's the other thing as well. think everyone's, whether it be say, yeah, like a customer of a product, somebody watching a film or anything like that, really, it's their experience with whatever that is, it's something which they've created for themselves and it's unique to them. So,
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: you're almost giving them the tools and the space to be able to go and experience that thing. But not giving them the world really, because they can figure that out themselves. Do you know what mean?
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we're probably respecting the audience more. there are smart people out there who will get what you've, you know, if you conduct it in a particular way, um, it's nice to have other people fill in the blanks as well, or maybe interpret it in a totally different way to how you intended your animation anyway. uh, it'd be interesting to get, don't know if you get any feedback
Ross: Yeah, I mean, it is really interesting. When you just said that, I I think about loads different, because film is a massive part of, it's massive inspiration for me in general. And
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Ross: Yeah, some of my favorite directors, they personally don't really talk too much about the decisions they've made or the reasoning behind parts of their films. And I think that the films which say like the top however many films which I love all share very similar.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Ross: similar trait I'd say or similar couple traits where They're all, for a start, usually quite small world environments and limited amount of characters. So you really sit within that world and you get transported into there without it feeling too expansive. you then concentrate more on the interrelationships of those characters rather than the emotional spectacle of world building or anything like that.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: And the other thing as well, which I think I find quite important is that level of unknown around the meaning of a particular aspect of a film or letting the viewer either decide on what they actually believe is happening or it gives them, it gives the room to, it's like ambiguous enough that it gives them a way to connect with it. in their own way. And I think that
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: when it comes to my own creative output, I don't do too much of... of that more ambiguous side of things really, and that big side I would say. But what I would say is that world building for me is so important.
Heather Ebanks: Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: But again, on more of a local and much smaller size, whenever I create something, very much more, here's a character and they're on a journey to do something or whatever it is really, but like, it's not, I'm not really trying to create too much of too much spectacle, too much of a massive world really. I mean, for one, it's...
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. Mm.
Ross: a lot of work to do anyway, and I'll probably will get bored of the idea and move on to something else anyway. So I to limit myself a little bit, do you know what I've tried to take on bigger animation projects in the past and then they've sadly never been finished. So it's also understanding what you want to get across really and what you want to deliver, but also within
Heather Ebanks: You You Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ross: the strengths of what you can actually possibly do, think within, realistically, you've got to stay motivated to get that project done or whatever it is. So yeah, those parameters are important to make sure that you can get across your message, but at the scale, which makes sense for you just so you can get it out really, you know what mean? Get it out to the world.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yeah, yeah, be realistic. You don't want to end up with, you know, very well known thing that we all familiar with is burnout. So you know yourself, know your restrictions, know what you're capable of. You can get a lot of things out with a less amount. Actually, it's more interesting things that you come up with when you've got less things to work with. I remember back in my uni days where they said you've only got like one color or two colors to use in this project.
Ross: Mm-hmm.
Heather Ebanks: you know, figure it out kind of situation. So definitely.
Ross: Absolutely. Yeah.
Heather Ebanks: So what have you learnt about yourself through your drawing and through your creative practice?
Ross: I'll learn more about what I care about in the world.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: I think the more that I show off myself in a creative space and create things the more that I understand or pick out. more of a world around me.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: Do you just take notice of things differently, I think, when you're creating something? Because if you recognize what influences you within what you're creating, then you will, next time you see something like that, you can see it in a different light. I think as well.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: specifically like the arts in general, there's such a... inherent need to create something which you feel is going to make a difference for somebody else. Whether that be some, just giving someone a different avenue to think about whatever it could be really, genuinely anything which I think can hold some kind of emotion as attached to it that people can resonate with. And I think that the more the
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Ross: I lean further into my inspirations around what I create, the more that I understand myself of...
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: Not in a way that is restrictive necessarily that I don't want to open myself up to other things, but more that I'm just more headstrong in my decisions and what I like and what I enjoy in terms of my inspirations has come off the back of almost like a reverse way of looking at it where the more that I create and more lean into my, what inspires me, the more that I understand what those inspirations are I think that that's probably the one thing which I've learned the most is
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: is really understanding what gets me excited, you know, and things that I really care about around me as a product of what I've been creating basically in my output.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. so what advice would you give creatives who are listening now who are trying to build something on their own terms?
Ross: I thought about this a lot and I've always thought that... I wasn't really ready to give out advice, but the more that I've... Lent into myself and say this past year, I've created this brand for myself now, which I really sit in well. The more that I felt more comfortable with understanding that question and what I'd say. And the one thing which I've noticed through my... my life as I've been creating things is that a lot of the time you've just kind of got to do it yourself. You've just got to, you just got to get up and do it. Um, not as like a motivational speaker kind of way of being like, get off your ass and go and do your thing. But more is like I've I've been in situations before in the past, like a lot of creators probably have, where you really quite desperately want a door to open for yourself. The first example of that for me, think, was when I came to uni, even though I did study design, I was very much in the, or wanting to be in the music scene. I was very interested in the underground music scene. And so I'd go to events and be a part of that and get to meet people and start to create a community around that. But one thing which I really wanted to do is get into DJing at these events.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: And basically for about a year, no one was booking me. It might have been because I was, wasn't very good at DJing to be fair in reflection, but at the same time, one thing which I learned early on was like, okay, so no one's, no one's going to book me. So I was like, I still, I still want to DJ. So let's put on an event.
Heather Ebanks: you
Ross: And I didn't want to necessarily be an event promoter, but it was the only way I was going to DJ. So leaning into that, then completely changed everything. It changed absolutely everything. Where like, um, people recognize me as, as, as someone who kind of had a space in that scene now and getting to know other people within that scene just became so much easier. And so like,
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: that then falls into a lot of different experiences where, mean, I have this thing called casual tables, which I just set up a mini table tennis, portable table tennis table, which I take around to different places and pop it up in bars, cafes, out and about, wherever, and let people just come and play. Because I think I've never seen it been done before in the past. And to be fair, it might've been, but for me, I just want to make things happen.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: And I realized quite early on that no one else is going to do it or do it for me rather. so I think going back to the question, greatest bit of advice I could say is just, you've just got to make it happen. You've got to make it, you could make it happen for yourself. and yeah, like not in, not in a particularly like irresponsible, reckless way, or you've still got to think about it and put the work into plan around that to make sure that it's something which could be viable.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Ross: But regardless, mean, that's it's in a more professional setting, maybe, for example, maybe don't start up an agency if you have no idea what you're doing in that space or whatever. But I think in a general sense, it's so important to just make things happen. And you would have probably heard it from a lot of people. What people say, just make the thing and then like make it better later or I'm probably
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Hmm. Mm.
Ross: butchering someone's quote somewhere but like essentially it's so important to just make things happen for yourself because
Heather Ebanks: You Hmm.
Ross: people, yeah, I mean, you can't wait around for other people in that sense, I mean?
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, here, here, I definitely can resonate to this one because I've used to like hold off and waiting for something to, you know, miraculously end up on my doorstep, but you have to make it happen. And I'm trying to do more experimenting as well with with ideas. Now, what could happen? You know, people say no, or move on. Yeah, great advice. Definitely.
Ross: It's just opening up more doors to yourself as well because I think that like, one thing which I've been really careful of in say like recent years is not seeing every opportunity within creative industry as a way to try and get more work or things like that, right? Cause I've gone through periods of time where I've been like, really do get some projects in, what's going to help with that? But like,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah. Hmm. you
Ross: finding spaces and creative avenues which you can just go and experiment and explore or get involved with in some way or another, collaborate with people around you or show up to some of the creative talk or whatever it is basically, turn up and be a part of it because you want to be a part of it. And those are the environments out of any really that
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Hmm.
Ross: I've noticed I've got the most out of whether it be actual work, but either that or say more on a level that I feel more connected and feel in my own place and feel fully a part of this creative scene now is creative industry and everything. It's you just got to be proactive with what you do, no matter what it is really and show up for the right reasons and And just make sure you keep that in check really and make sure that you're doing things for yourself, but also to make sure that like, yeah, you're looking after yourself and you're not just seeing everything as like a potential like career move or opportunity to get better in that sense. I mean, but as a way to be able to cultivate a creative world around you, which you actually really want to be a part of. Cause that's why everyone starts it. know, that's why everyone gets into this space, especially freelancers.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: you're not creating that connected world around you of people and inspirations and things like that then like you're kind of missing opportunity to make this completely your own
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, definitely. Wonderful advice. Ross, I really enjoy this conversation and I could talk to you for hours, if anybody wants to continue the conversation with you or reach out to you via your social media handles, how would they do that?
Ross: best way would be on on Insta. I'm admittedly on there a lot. yeah, my socials are draw and deliver. As simple as that. Same handle is my my studio. But that's best way to find me.
Heather Ebanks: much, Ross.
Ross: Thanks for having me.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yeah.
Ross: I really see stripped a lot of, what actually brought me into this space in the first place
Heather: I'm joined by Ross Martin, illustrator, designer, animator, Ross doesn't spend more time chasing trends or trying to fit in into particular creative mould. Instead, he focuses on ideas, curiosity, and making work that feels authentic to who he is. In this conversation we talk about creative confidence, embracing imperfection, And why the process often matters more than the final outcome. Ross shares how animation shaped the way he sees people and storytelling. Why showing the human side of creativity is more important than ever. And what happened when he stopped trying to look like a bigger agency And started showing up as himself. We also explore the value of world building, following ideas that excite you, create opportunities instead of waiting for them, And the importance of making things happen on your own terms. A thoughtful conversation about creativity, authenticity, and trusting yourself enough to put your work into the world.
Ross: one year of my current setup really, because I've been freelanced for, I've been freelance for, I think coming up to either four or five years, I lose count now. but yeah, it was last, May that I started this brand of myself. and yeah, it's
Heather Ebanks: Okay. Mm-hmm.
Ross: It's been, it's been an interesting year, really. It's been really exciting. And it's the first time that I've really felt really settled in what I'm doing. So when it, when a year came by, for one, I didn't really, hadn't, I hadn't thought that it actually been a whole year for a start, but then also at the same time, it felt as though it's been ages since I've, since I've had this brand and, and, and been kind of
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Ross: showing up as I have been. And I think it's been good to reflect on that really and to see like where I've come from around it as well as exciting as it is and how excited I am kind of to keep going with this brand. It's been interesting to look back and see the process of being freelancer.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm. I think it's good to some creators, I feel like they're a bit, a bit, I don't know, icky about celebrating their wins. And I think we definitely need to keep doing that a lot more, whether it's on social media even for ourselves, when you hear the words bold voices messy journeys zero apologies what part of your journey does that resonate with the most?
Ross: That's a really interesting question. I think that... I think the latter, the last one, the zero apologies one, as much as it is what resonated with the most, but not in a sense that, not in an abrasive way at all. More just that I've been quite fortunate that I think I haven't ever really felt too self-conscious about the work which I create. Like there's been times before where it's happened where I've been
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: that kind of imposter syndrome takes over sometimes. But in a general sense, I kind of don't really have, because I have so many ideas I don't really have time to think too much about the response I might get or be too critical over the work itself. I just have such a
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Ross: inherent need to just make things that I guess that's kind of zero apology is just very much. I think of an idea for a while usually. I then create what that is in my head once I've kind of mapped out my head and then I put it out there and that's kind of as simple as it is really. And yeah, I think that
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Ross: I've gotten much more comfortable with that as time has gone on, especially as a freelancer, but as a creator in general, just leaning in to yourself and knowing yourself and just back in your own work really. And then, yeah, having zero apologies around it. I think people do resonate with that a lot more as well, I think, because you're being much more authentic with yourself as well.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm. That was perfect. Because the next question was, you've already answered what I was about to ask you was about how you've what helped you to become more comfortable in your own way of thinking. It sounds like some that's a great start because a lot of creatives, they battle with that on a regular basis before they even, you know, work with anybody or, you know, start their business. And so where did you think that stems from? Do you think that, you know, was it You've always been like that or is it something that you had to learn over the time of running your business?
Ross: That's right, yeah, again, another good question. I think that... I've never really thought about it too much. Luckily, I'd say. but specifically around and in the creative industry. I came from a place which I was much more inexperienced compared to like say my peers when I came out of uni. I went into the creative scene here and as much as there were times when I was thinking like is this actually really suited for me because I always felt as though I was like a little bit of an oddball in terms of
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: in terms of my relationship with just the creative industry in general. I my inexperience around… the industry in general weirdly actually helped me be more confident around it because I kind of knowing less of the scope around it kind of kind of gave me less to worry about. I guess I'm not sure it's. But I mean, before before that, I mean, talking about, say, even as going back as far as like my childhood and all that, like I've I've been fortunate to to have a good family around me.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Ross: good friends and all that through school and everything like that were.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: I was never made to feel... like critical of my own output really, of creatively. And I've always found space as much as I was quite a social child. I I really valued my own time when I wanted to create and I always like found time to do that. And so I think that like, as much as it's important to be able to share your work around and everything, it's so important to be able to just sit with your process and really, really get to grips with that, you know, and the more you do that, the more that you sit and just create with your own time with like no distractions, the more that you feel more comfortable in what you're creating. So yeah, I think that that's probably where a lot of it comes from or stems from, but
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: It took a while to really feel settled and to find my own lane.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Excellent. And I think a lot more creatives shy away from, you know, bringing their full selves into their work. as we're designers and creatives, some people feel that, you know, we're too emotional about our work. And it's a part of us. We take it personally and also it shapes us. You know, we take our influences, like you said, from your confidence and your... your skills and not just the technical side, but also the processes as well the relationship with your creativity, when did it shift from being say mainly a finished outcome, for example, to becoming more about the process itself?
Ross: Ooh. I've always found it really difficult to actually... to. I guess make note of the process when I'm actually creating things. It's so important. It's the joy of that, right? But it's the joy of creating is the process throughout. And I would say most creators, if not everyone will probably agree with that. But I don't do a lot of it in the moment to be fair, but one thing which like, mean, animation is something which is like, has been a massive part of my creative upbringing really through when I was younger, I'd make
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yeah. Mm. Mm.
Ross: flash animations, cartoons, think to that. I kind of grew up, even though I started off with drawing and illustrating to that, that's when I kind of moved on to, moved on to creating animations and stuff when I was, when I was younger. And there's something about the process of that, which, I mean, you have to be so patient with it. That'd be so patient with, with the process of that. It's not as quick as just creating.
Heather Ebanks: yeah, Mm. Mm.
Ross: illustration and put now online or or whatnot but you have to really like romanticize the process of that and really get in get really stuck in with it that
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Hmm
Ross: Having that as part of my journey really now shapes the way that I mentally sit within that space, within the process. But a lot of it comes with...
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Ross: the idea itself of making something, whether it's for a client or whether it's just for your own, for your, of your own back, for yourself and for your own enjoyment.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Ross: The most important thing for me is the idea. And I'll usually sit with it. If I have time and it's not like a, if it's not strict deadline or anything like that, I'll try and sit with the idea in my head for as long as possible. I feel like I'm pretty good at visualizing what I want to create once I've had like a good think about it. And that could be an animation or iteration, a branding project, whatever it is really. But the more I allow myself to
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Ross: sit with the idea first as part of the process really. It's part of it really. it saves me so much time when I actually get onto actually creating because in my head I've already mapped it out. It's something which I really hold onto as much as possible because it falls into say, yeah, illustration, animation, design, whatever it is really,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ross: It also, motivates me more to actually go and create it once I've thought about it for a while, instead of just stepping into a straight away. And some people I think are quite different in that way. think that if someone thinks about an idea for too long, they might overthink it. or, or it might just be a way of procrastinating and getting, getting started with it, which we've all been there, but it's, it's, yeah, it's a, it's a big part of my process now of, is that first step is.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, Yeah, definitely. Mmm. Yes.
Ross: to just sit with the idea for as long as I possibly can really without it being absurdly long before I get started and then can go straight into actually creating.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Hmm. Hmm. There's definitely a fine line for creatives. I could resonate with this where, you know, when to like, continue with an idea and when to let it drop and when to follow it through. And then there's that fine line of over analyzing something. So what do you feel with regards to creativity and creatives who specifically focus too much on perfection and more on exploration? Is there a way as creatives understand the two and when to use it in our work?
Ross: Yeah, that balance can be so difficult, especially because you can be so critical of your own work.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yeah.
Ross: because really sitting in that imperfection and that play of creating is such an important part of it. But I understand if creatives struggle with the idea of putting out something which might be like half finished by their standard maybe, or...
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Ross: Yeah, then that balance between that and something which feels much more complete, but
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: I've always really enjoyed when something, even though I work digitally, I don't really do much stuff in more traditional methods. I still always enjoy seeing things which like a brushstroke, which like maybe just looks slightly more messy or like something which, which like a creative could have cleared up really as part of process, but hasn't whether they've just because they've gone about it or because it's intentional. I love that.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Ross: regardless of what it is, because it just shows that it's showing that process throughout the actual final thing. And I guess just more and more with how quick people consume things now, it's becoming more increasingly important to showcase more of that.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yeah, definitely.
Ross: human side of creating, whether that be through the process and imperfections and things like that, compared to a final thing, which maybe even algorithmically isn't going to be picked up as well because you're not showing your face or I'm a sucker for it really, because I hardly ever actually record my process or I do try and clean up my designs as much as possible and things like that when
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Ross: basically the people who follow along with your journey and the people who are going to probably resonate the most with what you're creating, especially as an individual creative, they want to see you through it. And a lot of that is the imperfections and granted, it depends on what industry you're in, because sometimes I think, wow, maybe not. think that in basically any industry, it can show up in different ways, but it's say like a corporate design setting. You probably want things to feel much more.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Ross: a whole and complete before you put it out to the world. But I think there's always space to bring that human element into it.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah. that balance of knowing how much pull out of yourself and your working and behind the scenes and I know there's a lot of pressure for the creatives to do a lot more of that it's just showing, like you say, the human side of being a creative and that it's not AI has we all that lovely subject we'd love to talk about or not talk about.
Ross: Hehehehe
Heather Ebanks: But showing the human side of being a creative and showing that what we as designers are about. definitely. Do you think the creative industry places like too much value on the polished outcomes and not over the thoughtful kind of process inside of things?
Ross: say so as a whole, I would say so. But it's it's in a lot of spaces, it's necessary. Because depends on who it's for as well, right? It depends on is also just based on I guess, pressures from like marketing spaces and budgets and all this kind of stuff like that. A lot of different clients are going to want something which feels complete, even though it might be complete, it might just
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Ross: look a little bit more as part of process or human made or whatever. But there is that inherent. pressure, I think, from the industry itself to value something which is completely polished and fleshed out. I've seen more and more, and you've probably seen it as well, a lot of, I guess, as part of a anti-AI trend or whatever, seems to be more and more brands and businesses valuing things which feel much more
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: human made in a way that it values the process. And a lot of, I've seen more and more marketing campaigns actually instead of showcasing say a product, they're showcasing the behind the scenes of shooting the ad for the product kind of thing. Like that's almost like an extension off of the actual ad itself. And it's great to see.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, yeah.
Ross: And we'll probably see more and more of it until we're sick of seeing the behind the scenes and we're like, actually, can you show us the final thing now? you know what mean? But I think at the moment it's still probably, yeah, it's still very much a situation where most people would value the final thing more. And I think that can be quite damaging as well, especially with AI and everything like that coming in, where in both cases you're going to see
Heather Ebanks: Yeah. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm.
Ross: a final outcome, whatever quality that is, is, you know, it's up to, up to debate, but you're going to say you, mean, clients and people, even customers and whoever it is really, who's interacting with, with, whatever you're creating is there is a fine line where they might not
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Ross: put value into what's been created because they don't understand the process. And the thoughts and the planning and everything which goes into that part of it. But it's fighting the right battle though, because at the same time, say for example, you're creating some artwork to promote like a new skincare product or something like that. It's, if a final
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Hmm. Mm.
Ross: person who's going to interact with that, the customer, whatever, if they're not going to really, if they're not particularly creative or they don't understand the process anyway, they're not going to see a difference necessarily. So it's, it's, it's making sure you're fighting the right battle with all that kind of stuff and making sure that you put your foot down and hold strong to like who, who you are and your principles as a designer and everything like that.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Hmm.
Ross: within industry which might feel a little bit relentless, but knowing when to put your foot down in those environments rather than trying to combat everything, you know, at every stage.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Have you ever personally struggled with the pressure to make your work look or feel a certain way, know, air quotes, professional kind of look and for the industry.
Ross: I'd say so, yeah. I mean... good example of that for me was a little bit earlier on into my freelance journey. I started off as just representing myself as an individual freelancer. And it was going fairly well for what it was worth, but I I felt as though I kind of outgrew that first initial step, first couple of years really. And I was looking for a way to, I guess, reintroduce myself.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Ross: but to try and fit into a different box really within the industry. And so I,
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: I started up what essentially is a fake studio, it's me, but I wanted to make it look a little bit more as if it was like more of an agency space. And run with that for about a year or so. But in that time, I for one, wasn't really clued up for what I was doing anyway, at that point. Obviously freelancing is always a learning.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Ross: opportunity, every single step is a learning opportunity anyway. But I realized over the year which I was doing that, that this really wasn't actually representative of like who I wanted to be as a creative. And I didn't want that really for my freelance career. And so
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Ross: It was a tough lesson to learn, but that, think it all came from a pressure from the industry really for me, I think that.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah.
Ross: that that's what I thought was necessary for me to expand on my freelance situation or like, say, for example, if I wanted to attract bigger clients or anything like that, that I've got to show up in this way and I've got to do this, but it wasn't particularly authentic to me and, who I was. I really see stripped a lot of, what actually brought me into this space in the first place when I showed up as, as more of a, agency.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Yeah. Mm. Mm.
Ross: in that sense. So yeah, I think that's probably, I haven't really had, I don't think much of a pressure aside from that to, to feel as though I've to be shaped in a certain way or even smaller things like even within projects and anything like that. think that understanding the industry and understanding, say the particular sector which you're working in for project is important, but still
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm. Mm. Mm.
Ross: doubling down with your experience and your decisions is like such an important thing. So being swayed by say, I don't know, design trends or, or, or tickle people's work, or if someone says something on LinkedIn about you should be doing this and this and that or whatever. I think that
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: you've got to just keep, you just got to keep head strong really with that kind of stuff and understand that if you're new to it, then obviously it could be quite difficult, but if you've had a good sort of like two or three years with dealing with that kind of stuff, you would hopefully know yourself a bit better than at least when you started. So you can kind of hold onto that bit more and to make sure that you just stick, stick in that lane really and understand yourself and you'd have to shape yourself for that. know what mean?
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Mm. Mm. definitely. I'm just thinking, as you were saying that, if I was like, maybe seeing it from a client's perspective, I probably respect a creative or designer more that they, with their values and their beliefs and their mission, and then they haven't followed a trend, because I wouldn't want to work with the creative who doesn't know themselves and know their beliefs. And I would come to them specifically with a certain set of skills that, you know, I would, if I wanted to go to it, there's loads of designers out there, but as a client, want to know that, for example, if they're designing my brand, that I will want them to know my mission and my beliefs. And I would come to them for that particular reason that we have that in common. If I find that halfway through a project, the designers decided to go 180 and go in a totally different direction because they've got, you know, know, like a magpie saw something else, go, let's try this. And then the design is totally different. That will be worrying for me, especially when there's budgets involved, yeah, it's definitely true.
Ross: Absolutely.
Heather Ebanks: I'm going to talk about more about your animation because you mentioned this earlier what does animation allow you to express emotionally about, compared to static design for example, that illustration sometimes can't.
Ross: It's all about storytelling really, and that's where I start with it. Illustration allows that as well, but in a different way. Animation, I feel as though it lets you sit within it a lot more. Whether it be a four second animation or a full blown feature film, know, it's creating a world which you can add more nuance to that space. Even really simple GIF animations compared to really complex setups.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Ross: still allows so much more nuance to the character's expression and the way they move for example or
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: For me, that's the crux of it. I think that's... me that's why I do love it. think realistically it's something which you can sit in for longer. It allows you to be able to really sit with it for a lot more. The other thing as well is like a lot of inspiration for me comes from different avenues of creative fields and everything like that. It's not necessarily just visual side stuff. I do love music and I've
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm. Mm.
Ross: made music as well in the past and so there's a bit of sound design which comes with animation in general if it's not like a silent animation it's not like a gif or whatever it is so I've been fascinated by creating the sound for animations as well as part of the process and be able to again
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Ross: sit within that space and that world for longer. Whether that be actually creating musical bits or if it's a sound effect of birds or real world environments, things like that, and putting it all together and timing it so that, again, visually in my head, being able to time it in a way that I'm like, okay, cool. So those are the different points, which are the key points of the animation It's...
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: It's all about world building for sure. like any kind of illustration based thing anyway for me, but yeah, just allow us for so much more space and nuance.
Heather Ebanks: Do you think animation has made people observe? I know we talked about the human side of creativity, but has animation made you observe people differently when you create animations?
Ross: It definitely makes you. like take notice of things more. Because... Yeah... I... I think it lets you understand people's perspective more. So whether it be the characters you're creating or whether it's just something which you're actually watching yourself and taking in.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: There's such complexity to anyone, any kind of character within animation specifically.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: It's also such a tricky balance though, especially within just storytelling in general, to give the viewer enough room to really understand the people who are within the scene, whatever you're creating, but also keeping back enough that there's, you're not giving everything to somebody and that there's
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: enough of straight there that you're curious about that, you know, I think that like some of the most, I guess, pivotal, the most famous piece of art out there, for example, are ones which you're constantly always asking questions about because there's just so much intrigue about, say, for example, a particular character's person's facial expression or things like that being like, what do think they were thinking at that time or whatever? And there's restraint there.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: But I think with animation, you can get more, but it's still important to recognise that you've got to balance it between the two really of giving people something which they can latch onto emotionally and something which they also want to figure out more. And I think that that's what...
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm. Mm.
Ross: I've learnt the most, I'd say, out of...
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Ross: animation compared to still imagery but how I
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: how I take an influence from say like the world around me and the people I've met and different characters around me in my real life, know, in the real world. Yeah,
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm. interesting you saying about, you don't want to give everything away we're so familiar with the human form and the body and the facial expressions. And I think it's like movies. a very good trailer. is very important. you don't want everybody to give all the answers and fill in the gaps within the trailer before you've seen the movie. And I can see that the animation part of like, you want to give that emotional side to it, but you don't want to go all out and you do the polished, rendering, etc. But sometimes it just loses its, you know, people start picking holes at those kind of overly done animations. I think with your one, it adds a charm to the animations. It wants to engage into the wanting to know more kind of side of things and keep pulling that back. I think like you were saying, finding that balance,
Ross: Yeah, it's funny you say that about trailers to be fair. I agree. I'm sure a lot of people do to be fair, it's
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Ross: I think it's so important to be able to capture, especially when a trailer is wanting to advertise the film, but it's wanting to bring you in to that world momentarily without spoiling anything. And some do it better than others. what I want out of something like that, which I also think bring to my own creative space is
Heather Ebanks: Yeah. Mm.
Ross: I wanted to understand the world, the tone of it, the emotion around it, at least to an entry level. You know, like you don't want to give all of the emotion. might, that might be what a lot of the spoiler might be, for example, if we're talking about films again, but it's...
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah.
Ross: it's bringing something into the world which... people can latch onto and people can feel as though they can live in.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Ross: but having again that restraint to understand that it's sometimes not good to give everything to somebody straight away because you need to let them themselves get
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: encouraged to be a part of that space. I think that's the other thing as well. think everyone's, whether it be say, yeah, like a customer of a product, somebody watching a film or anything like that, really, it's their experience with whatever that is, it's something which they've created for themselves and it's unique to them. So,
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: you're almost giving them the tools and the space to be able to go and experience that thing. But not giving them the world really, because they can figure that out themselves. Do you know what mean?
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we're probably respecting the audience more. there are smart people out there who will get what you've, you know, if you conduct it in a particular way, um, it's nice to have other people fill in the blanks as well, or maybe interpret it in a totally different way to how you intended your animation anyway. uh, it'd be interesting to get, don't know if you get any feedback
Ross: Yeah, I mean, it is really interesting. When you just said that, I I think about loads different, because film is a massive part of, it's massive inspiration for me in general. And
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Ross: Yeah, some of my favorite directors, they personally don't really talk too much about the decisions they've made or the reasoning behind parts of their films. And I think that the films which say like the top however many films which I love all share very similar.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Ross: similar trait I'd say or similar couple traits where They're all, for a start, usually quite small world environments and limited amount of characters. So you really sit within that world and you get transported into there without it feeling too expansive. you then concentrate more on the interrelationships of those characters rather than the emotional spectacle of world building or anything like that.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: And the other thing as well, which I think I find quite important is that level of unknown around the meaning of a particular aspect of a film or letting the viewer either decide on what they actually believe is happening or it gives them, it gives the room to, it's like ambiguous enough that it gives them a way to connect with it. in their own way. And I think that
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: when it comes to my own creative output, I don't do too much of... of that more ambiguous side of things really, and that big side I would say. But what I would say is that world building for me is so important.
Heather Ebanks: Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: But again, on more of a local and much smaller size, whenever I create something, very much more, here's a character and they're on a journey to do something or whatever it is really, but like, it's not, I'm not really trying to create too much of too much spectacle, too much of a massive world really. I mean, for one, it's...
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. Mm.
Ross: a lot of work to do anyway, and I'll probably will get bored of the idea and move on to something else anyway. So I to limit myself a little bit, do you know what I've tried to take on bigger animation projects in the past and then they've sadly never been finished. So it's also understanding what you want to get across really and what you want to deliver, but also within
Heather Ebanks: You You Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ross: the strengths of what you can actually possibly do, think within, realistically, you've got to stay motivated to get that project done or whatever it is. So yeah, those parameters are important to make sure that you can get across your message, but at the scale, which makes sense for you just so you can get it out really, you know what mean? Get it out to the world.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Yeah, yeah, be realistic. You don't want to end up with, you know, very well known thing that we all familiar with is burnout. So you know yourself, know your restrictions, know what you're capable of. You can get a lot of things out with a less amount. Actually, it's more interesting things that you come up with when you've got less things to work with. I remember back in my uni days where they said you've only got like one color or two colors to use in this project.
Ross: Mm-hmm.
Heather Ebanks: you know, figure it out kind of situation. So definitely.
Ross: Absolutely. Yeah.
Heather Ebanks: So what have you learnt about yourself through your drawing and through your creative practice?
Ross: I'll learn more about what I care about in the world.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: I think the more that I show off myself in a creative space and create things the more that I understand or pick out. more of a world around me.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: Do you just take notice of things differently, I think, when you're creating something? Because if you recognize what influences you within what you're creating, then you will, next time you see something like that, you can see it in a different light. I think as well.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: specifically like the arts in general, there's such a... inherent need to create something which you feel is going to make a difference for somebody else. Whether that be some, just giving someone a different avenue to think about whatever it could be really, genuinely anything which I think can hold some kind of emotion as attached to it that people can resonate with. And I think that the more the
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Ross: I lean further into my inspirations around what I create, the more that I understand myself of...
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: Not in a way that is restrictive necessarily that I don't want to open myself up to other things, but more that I'm just more headstrong in my decisions and what I like and what I enjoy in terms of my inspirations has come off the back of almost like a reverse way of looking at it where the more that I create and more lean into my, what inspires me, the more that I understand what those inspirations are I think that that's probably the one thing which I've learned the most is
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: is really understanding what gets me excited, you know, and things that I really care about around me as a product of what I've been creating basically in my output.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. so what advice would you give creatives who are listening now who are trying to build something on their own terms?
Ross: I thought about this a lot and I've always thought that... I wasn't really ready to give out advice, but the more that I've... Lent into myself and say this past year, I've created this brand for myself now, which I really sit in well. The more that I felt more comfortable with understanding that question and what I'd say. And the one thing which I've noticed through my... my life as I've been creating things is that a lot of the time you've just kind of got to do it yourself. You've just got to, you just got to get up and do it. Um, not as like a motivational speaker kind of way of being like, get off your ass and go and do your thing. But more is like I've I've been in situations before in the past, like a lot of creators probably have, where you really quite desperately want a door to open for yourself. The first example of that for me, think, was when I came to uni, even though I did study design, I was very much in the, or wanting to be in the music scene. I was very interested in the underground music scene. And so I'd go to events and be a part of that and get to meet people and start to create a community around that. But one thing which I really wanted to do is get into DJing at these events.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: And basically for about a year, no one was booking me. It might have been because I was, wasn't very good at DJing to be fair in reflection, but at the same time, one thing which I learned early on was like, okay, so no one's, no one's going to book me. So I was like, I still, I still want to DJ. So let's put on an event.
Heather Ebanks: you
Ross: And I didn't want to necessarily be an event promoter, but it was the only way I was going to DJ. So leaning into that, then completely changed everything. It changed absolutely everything. Where like, um, people recognize me as, as, as someone who kind of had a space in that scene now and getting to know other people within that scene just became so much easier. And so like,
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Ross: that then falls into a lot of different experiences where, mean, I have this thing called casual tables, which I just set up a mini table tennis, portable table tennis table, which I take around to different places and pop it up in bars, cafes, out and about, wherever, and let people just come and play. Because I think I've never seen it been done before in the past. And to be fair, it might've been, but for me, I just want to make things happen.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: And I realized quite early on that no one else is going to do it or do it for me rather. so I think going back to the question, greatest bit of advice I could say is just, you've just got to make it happen. You've got to make it, you could make it happen for yourself. and yeah, like not in, not in a particularly like irresponsible, reckless way, or you've still got to think about it and put the work into plan around that to make sure that it's something which could be viable.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Ross: But regardless, mean, that's it's in a more professional setting, maybe, for example, maybe don't start up an agency if you have no idea what you're doing in that space or whatever. But I think in a general sense, it's so important to just make things happen. And you would have probably heard it from a lot of people. What people say, just make the thing and then like make it better later or I'm probably
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Hmm. Mm.
Ross: butchering someone's quote somewhere but like essentially it's so important to just make things happen for yourself because
Heather Ebanks: You Hmm.
Ross: people, yeah, I mean, you can't wait around for other people in that sense, I mean?
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, here, here, I definitely can resonate to this one because I've used to like hold off and waiting for something to, you know, miraculously end up on my doorstep, but you have to make it happen. And I'm trying to do more experimenting as well with with ideas. Now, what could happen? You know, people say no, or move on. Yeah, great advice. Definitely.
Ross: It's just opening up more doors to yourself as well because I think that like, one thing which I've been really careful of in say like recent years is not seeing every opportunity within creative industry as a way to try and get more work or things like that, right? Cause I've gone through periods of time where I've been like, really do get some projects in, what's going to help with that? But like,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah. Hmm. you
Ross: finding spaces and creative avenues which you can just go and experiment and explore or get involved with in some way or another, collaborate with people around you or show up to some of the creative talk or whatever it is basically, turn up and be a part of it because you want to be a part of it. And those are the environments out of any really that
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Hmm.
Ross: I've noticed I've got the most out of whether it be actual work, but either that or say more on a level that I feel more connected and feel in my own place and feel fully a part of this creative scene now is creative industry and everything. It's you just got to be proactive with what you do, no matter what it is really and show up for the right reasons and And just make sure you keep that in check really and make sure that you're doing things for yourself, but also to make sure that like, yeah, you're looking after yourself and you're not just seeing everything as like a potential like career move or opportunity to get better in that sense. I mean, but as a way to be able to cultivate a creative world around you, which you actually really want to be a part of. Cause that's why everyone starts it. know, that's why everyone gets into this space, especially freelancers.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Ross: you're not creating that connected world around you of people and inspirations and things like that then like you're kind of missing opportunity to make this completely your own
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, definitely. Wonderful advice. Ross, I really enjoy this conversation and I could talk to you for hours, if anybody wants to continue the conversation with you or reach out to you via your social media handles, how would they do that?
Ross: best way would be on on Insta. I'm admittedly on there a lot. yeah, my socials are draw and deliver. As simple as that. Same handle is my my studio. But that's best way to find me.
Heather Ebanks: much, Ross.
Ross: Thanks for having me.
