Tommy Ludgate: hello everyone, I'm Tommy. I
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: am a voice and identity coach for creatives. My background is as a singer, an artist and songwriter myself, and I've been coaching for the last seven years, having had a career in music as a vocal coach. acknowledging, accepting that you have a creative voice. So it particularly for the people listening who are like, well, I'm not really creative, but I just I'm kind of curious about it. So I'm
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: or often label themselves as not creative to just be open to the fact that you have something to say, whether that's in a creative art form or not, I always think about just how we're communicating within our lives. Like there's, there's
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: something to connect on because as humans, we need human connections. we might create that into something that's an art form that people can soak up and experience. Or it might just be the way in which you're communicating with the people closest to you.
Heather Ebanks: I'm joined by Tommy Ludgate, voice and identity coach, singer, songwriter, and someone helping creatives reconnect with the parts of themselves that exist underneath performance, pressure and perfectionism. Tommy's approach to creativity is deeply human. Less build a personal brand, more learning to trust your instincts again. Through music, coaching, and her own creative journey, she's become fascinated by what happens when we stop trying to fit into boxes and start expressing ourselves honestly instead. In this conversation, we explore the inner critic, creative confidence, self-expression, and the emotional side of sharing your work. We talk about singing, nervous systems, nature, marketing, creativity in a world that rewards performance and why reconnecting with play and curiosity can completely shift the way we create. This episode is an invitation to turn the volume down on the inner critic and to listen a little closer to your own voice.
Tommy Ludgate: I come from such a voice-led background and spent so many years singing and performing on stage and being a part of choirs and backing vocal groups and being part of that team environment, I suppose, with bringing voice to people's ears on stage. yeah, so really the voice is at the center of the work that I do.
Heather Ebanks: Cool. you've probably grown up around the music industry and were your parents part of the industry or was it just something that you took on board from a young age?
Tommy Ludgate: Yeah, funny you ask. I, well, both, I would say. me and some friends made our first girl group in the playground at school, at primary school. And that is really
Heather Ebanks: Cool. Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: where singing as a career began for me. Both of my parents, mum and dad, are very creative from film background. And my step-mom, was the one who had been working for a big major record label. And so the
Heather Ebanks: Hmm?
Tommy Ludgate: little girl band that we made in the playground became signed to a record label. So yeah, there's a lot of crossover with where it began. And I'd say it's a bit of both.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah. Do you remember the name of your band?
Tommy Ludgate: Absolutely. It was D to devotion to music, which one of the girls dreamt up after we saw there's a statue in Covent Garden, I think area near Leicester Square
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: that has devotion written on the side of it. And she dreamt it up after we'd
Heather Ebanks: you
Tommy Ludgate: been in town. But yeah, was it was a really big part of my experience learning to perform
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: and finding my voice.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: in that era of my life, but you know, I got a lot of confidence from the experience that I had doing that.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: It was incredible really.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm, think you probably touched upon this question I was going to ask you about. What did you absorb with that experience consciously and unconsciously about what it means to be a creative?
Tommy Ludgate: Hmm, that's a big question. I would say the obvious things that are conscious are, like I say, like having experience performing.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: We did a load of radio road shows. I don't know if even exist now, but we travel around the country performing.
Heather Ebanks: Okay. Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: We got to work with a really renowned producer, Steve Max, who spent time in the recording studio. We traveled, we went to other countries, we performed on TV. We were on the big breakfast back in the day and live and kicking for anyone that remembers. So
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. No.
Tommy Ludgate: obviously being exposed to, I suppose like quite a high pressure situation where you have to perform and you might have nerves and there were maybe experiences where it didn't go so well and the experiences where it did. There's a lot of learning in that. So there's the
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: obvious sort of... impact on me as a creative. We wrote
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: some of the songs so that was really like the birth of me songwriting and putting ideas out there but I suppose there's probably also a subconscious part that's maybe a bit more negative like the expectation on we were very young girls and at that time what the music industry
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: was like and things like image and
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: creating something that's gonna sell It was quite novelty what we're creating. So I'm kind of glad
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: in hindsight that we didn't have massive success because I wouldn't want that to be, I wouldn't have wanted that
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: to shape my career as it stands now. But yeah,
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: like a lot of shaping of... who I am as a creative. But I'd say on the most
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: part, a very positive impact on what I was then able to do as I grew older and
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: what I've done in my career as a, I suppose, like
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: self-employed person making a living
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: out of my creativity.
Heather Ebanks: Mm hmm. Yeah, and I think it's been your younger and especially in an industry like music industry, you always have to find your place and try and fit in and it sounds like you started to trust your own voice fully quite earlier on. And that's definitely a positive thing, especially for younger people who are trying to make their way as a creative. It can be very tough out there. What
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm.
Heather Ebanks: do you think is what's the difference between say performing and expressing your creativity, there must be a sort of difference between those two.
Tommy Ludgate: Oh, 100%. And I think that's something that I reflect on more at this stage in my life. I've just recently turned 40.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: So, you know, it's a very different place to
Heather Ebanks: you
Tommy Ludgate: be than that young age or in my twenties.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: I think I did learn to trust my voice in maybe that I was confident to put myself out there, but I would say that I'm only
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: really learning. to trust my instincts on what I want to create now. I really noticed this in the songwriting process where
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: maybe back when I was younger, you'd be creating and writing and comparing to your peers and being
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Tommy Ludgate: concerned with the end result and then it can become quite performative. I think at this
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: stage in my life when I'm creating and I'm writing, I'm doing it more from a place of... expression so it's really
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Tommy Ludgate: more more honesty and more tapping into like my real lived experience but it's still really difficult
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: I think it's really difficult to be in the moment in your creative process and not begin to think what's my audience going to be who's going to like this
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: what you know and As creatives, mean, I know speaking for myself, I'm so used to that cycle
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: of the process of like, I'm here creating something, then I know that it's going to get to the point of releasing that thing or sharing that thing or trying to
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: sell that thing. And so you sort of had have several
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: hats on. So being able to stay in the moment and stay in your
Heather Ebanks: Yeah,
Tommy Ludgate: true expression is a challenge, but it's important.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm. Mm. Yeah, definitely. And, and along with all of that, you as an all creative, no matter what creative direction you go in and what industry you're in, in the creative world, you do put a lot of yourself into your, art and, and have you ever felt like, whether you've been on stage at all that you felt disconnected? from what you were singing or what you were performing and how did that make you feel?
Tommy Ludgate: Yeah, more often than not, I would say.
Heather Ebanks: Mm, okay.
Tommy Ludgate: I think because particularly if you've trained in something and you've been
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: taught how to do it, you learn certain techniques of how to be on stage, might be good, what might make a good performance, how you might overcome nerves to actually be
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: in the moment with yourself enough to get into a real flow, really connected, I think is really difficult. And I can still
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: remember a particular stage I used to perform on in London. There's a place called the Bedford that has this Globe Theatre at the back. And I used to do that gig quite often. It was a showcase night and you could see into the audience. So I would get so distracted.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: I'm so distracted anyway, like we could be talking now and I'll see something outside and be like, ooh, a nice bird.
Heather Ebanks: Ha ha ha ha.
Tommy Ludgate: So on stage, could particularly be, I really read the room, like I'm like that anyway, so I'd notice
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: who was in the audience, maybe what discussion someone was having and the dynamic that was going on and really notice, you know, everything
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: that's going on around me. So it would be less often that I would be really connected to what I was doing
Heather Ebanks: Hmm
Tommy Ludgate: because I could perform and do a good enough job, but that's different to doing a good job and really feeling what you're doing.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: And probably the times when I felt like I got into that place more was actually when I was more nervous. I found like if I'm nervous,
Heather Ebanks: Bye.
Tommy Ludgate: I concentrate a bit harder because I'm having to focus on what I'm doing.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: But also, yeah, it's like getting the right atmosphere of the surroundings and who's in the room and what the audience is feeling. And there's many factors to getting that sweet spot of it feeling really good.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Interesting, because I have no idea about the singing and performing world at all. It's interesting how like now that you're working more in the coaching field, how you brought that part of your career into what you're doing today. So when was the point that you noticed that, hey, I've got something here that could actually connect my experiences and how to find your voice in coaching? How did those two marry together?
Tommy Ludgate: I think it's been a journey over the last maybe 18 months. So it's not
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: years and years of actually getting back
Heather Ebanks: Okay.
Tommy Ludgate: to my own voice.
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: That's been the leading factor. So I've got two boys, one of them three, one of them seven. So obviously coming out of having my second child, I've always stayed connected with my creativity. I made my podcast when he
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: was little and did a series of that. I found myself writing more when I've been in the early stages of having kids. But it's only
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: been now that I'm drawn a line under, okay, I'm not having any more kids. I'm done with that. I'm sort of getting back to myself and
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: feeling like there's that space to be writing again and taking
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: my artistry seriously. I think I just got to a point where I like, actually, all of my experience is relevant.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: So it can all come under one umbrella. Who I am is
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: what my coaching is. you know, coaching is such a broad skill. There's so many broad learnings and
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: so many industries. You know, it's a life coaching. It's about the whole person.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: So it can look different in many different places and many different industries. And for me, I was seeing that I was starting to do some singing work with people again, having been doing just more straight ahead coaching, always with creatives and in creative industries.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: But with the people that I'd started doing singing with, I was noticing we're not necessarily working on singing to be singers, we're working on how
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: do we get more confident in using our voice out loud? And I was seeing people say,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: I said yes to this thing that I never would have said yes to just because we'd been doing the singing.
Heather Ebanks: Right, yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: So it's not about, want to stand up on stage, but I do, people want to go through their lives feeling like they can use their voice authentically to say the things
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: that they're thinking in their head. Like, I really want to say yes to that. there it is. Like I can
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: connect with that confidence. Or
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: I think there's a big part of voice being internal as well as external. So for me, the work
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: is not just about what we hear out loud, but actually connecting with.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: the inner voice. So perhaps it's always
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: been a part of the coaching. It's just I'm seeing it through that lens a bit more clearly now.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. The voices are very powerful, not just literally, but your inner voice you were saying, and, a lot of people have a lot to say, but they don't vocalize it. And it was interesting how you, bring that into your coaching. And, so as creatives, you know, you've worked with many different types over the, over the years. What is, have you seen like an emotional pattern that you keep comes up again and again that people don't talk about publicly as a creative.
Tommy Ludgate: I think it does get talked about, but a very common
Heather Ebanks: Okay.
Tommy Ludgate: theme is that inner critic voice and
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Tommy Ludgate: what we experience in the cycle of our creativity. It can be there really loud sometimes, it goes away other times, but those sort of the beliefs that we hold that may be narrated by this critic voice.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: definitely act as a big barrier for people with their creativity, I think. And that's often
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: a big part of the work that I do with people.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. So if anyone's like struggling to specifically define their creative identity, where would they begin? How would they start to to find their voice?
Tommy Ludgate: I think the first thing is often standing still where you are,
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: literally, but also taking a moment to look back at
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: the things that you have created, that have existed, that have gone well. I call it like a creativity
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: portfolio, but how often do
Heather Ebanks: Okay.
Tommy Ludgate: we achieve the thing we've been working towards? And then it's like, okay, that's
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: done right. What's next? And we're heading forwards again. actually to just stand still
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: in the moment, but almost create a physical, almost, I don't know, I like to think of it as like a magazine, but like a portfolio of the things that you've done
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: over your whole lifetime. Like when I'm talking about being a kid and I'm in this girl band, I could just disregard that. I mean, I have a lot, because I think, God, that's a bit embarrassing. But actually if we're talking about it and I'm noticing all the value that that gave me, having this portfolio
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: that particularly in the times when you're like, this is rubbish, I've got no ideas, I'm blocked, you're comparing yourself to other
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: people, know, all the traps that we fall into, you're able
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: to look at that and see the evidence that yes, you have this
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: creative voice, it exists. Because I think when you're saying, how do people find that identity or that creative voice, often it's
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: that we don't even believe it's a thing.
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: We hear even people, you know, say, I'm not creative. I couldn't do that. I don't agree with that. think that we all are. But so I suppose,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah. Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: yeah, the first step is acknowledging that it exists and that there's
Heather Ebanks: Mmm. Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: highly likely a lot of evidence to show you where
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: it's been existing. And then if you've got that portfolio, you're able to start seeing the shape
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: of what that voice is and the things
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: that you tend to like more.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: the way you express yourself. I often think back to when I was creating, when I was studying. So I did a performance degree with a bunch of other amazing singers and creatives and songwriters. And when you're that age, you're so vulnerable to that comparison and thinking, well,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: I really like the way she's doing it. I think I want to do it like that. And I remember feeling like, everything I'm writing is so obvious. It's so obvious, it's
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: so overdone, but actually, no, no, that is my creative voice. That's my unique identity. It feels obvious because it feels easy for me to create in that way.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: So it's, beginning to just self-reflect and really noticing
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: what you go to naturally, what you've been creating already, what's the sort of threads running through that portfolio that
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: you can create for yourself.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, great way of putting it in the portfolio. But there's a lot of unpacking, isn't there, as human beings?
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm.
Heather Ebanks: We've got to unlearn what we've been taught, what we think was the right way of doing things. And it's kind of like somehow between childhood to teenager to adulthood, we kind of give these kind of, you know, our peers as well, even getting involved in our heads and our minds but then you probably have to go back to the beginning almost. and figure out what's true to yourself and what you believe in and go from there. So, and definitely
Tommy Ludgate: Mm.
Heather Ebanks: with your coaching, sounds like you're helping people to do that.
Tommy Ludgate: And I think just to say it's also, I don't think anyone's ever arrived at the place that we think is this dream place where we feel like
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: we've got all this clarity and we know exactly what we are and how we describe it and it's unique and we feel amazing in it. I just don't think that exists. Like I'm saying this, but I also experience
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: exactly what I'm saying where I need
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: that time to reflect. I get myself in a tangle trying to explain what it is that I'm doing in my work and feeling like,
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: it clear? Isn't it clear? Have I explained it right?
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: I avoid or don't make enough time for my own artistry. I'm doing better at that at the moment and I'm setting up,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: you know, some writing sessions and I'm dipping a toe in thinking, yeah, I'd quite like to make my own music and release it again. And, but you know, I'm not, I'm never there. I'm just... maybe one step ahead of someone listening to this
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: or I'm backing myself maybe that little bit more, but I'm not in a place of like, I've arrived and I'm, you know, feeling tip top. It's just, it's a
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: process all of the time. It's just how much you're willing
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: to have that self-awareness and notice and work
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: with it and make time and space. But even like me saying to you,
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: I've... Got some writing sessions booked in. I need the sessions with the other people for me to show up for it. I find it really
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Tommy Ludgate: hard to do on my own amidst my busy life with kids. You know, it's not, it's not easy.
Heather Ebanks: Okay. Yeah, But you should start in it and you're doing it.
Tommy Ludgate: Right.
Heather Ebanks: You'll find a way to do what you're passionate about. So even though you have a busy life.
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm. Thanks for the encouragement. Thank you.
Heather Ebanks: You've got this. You know, with people who are listening to this conversation and, you know, can you distinguish between what is an inner critic, what is your true voice? And how can someone tell the difference between the inner and the true voice critic? They might be bit confusing to some people what an inner voice is and an outer voice is.
Tommy Ludgate: Mm-hmm. So let's start with inner and outer voice.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: So the inner voice is, I would describe as thoughts in our mind.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: It may be critical, so it might be that like noisy chitter-chatter. I always describe the inner critic as noisy. And there's more you
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: can do to define that critic voice, which we could maybe go into in a second. But you've also got this wisdom. So when I talk about inner voice, I think there's this wisdom that we hold where
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: we know the answers, we know what we need. It's how we tap into that. When I talk about outer voice, it's,
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: I suppose, the voice we hear out loud. So the way we're communicating in our work,
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Tommy Ludgate: the way we're communicating to the outer world, the way we're communicating in our relationships with partners, with family, with kids, friends. So it's quite literally, I suppose, the quiet inner voice, as in there's no
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: sound to that voice. And then the voice that we sound that loud.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: A lot of the work I do around inner voice, when we're listening to the true voice that we... I think should be listening to, so it's not the critical voice, it's not getting in our way, it's not trying
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: to wobble us off or throw us off or,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: you know, but equally not that critical voice can be that sort of fear coming in to keep us safe, it's a human instinct,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: but there's this wisdom where when you can tap into that, into your subconscious mind and the things
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: that your gut instinct and your intuition
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: you find answers that you can feel so confident about. So I've been running
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: vision board workshops for many years now. And these workshops are where I see the most obvious evidence of this happening, where people arrive,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: they're in that place of like, don't really know the answers, feel like they should already know what's going to be on their collage by the end, sort of trying to control it. And then I get them
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: into this space of, okay, we get centered, we calm, we journal. I have particular prompts that I know will connect people to the things that they need to know. We work with a playlist and we just collect loads of stuff and it's really gut instinct reactive. So I always say like pick out
Heather Ebanks: Hmm
Tommy Ludgate: colors you're drawn to, textures, words, images,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: just whatever it is, rip it out the magazine. Don't think about it too much. By the
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: end, we then start to shape what the boards are looking like and people eventually glue everything down.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: And I often get the feedback where people are like, this is the stuff that's been floating around in my mind. I've just been ignoring it. And now
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: I can see it right there in front of me. It's like this clear picture and it's never a vision
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: board for the year. I think that's too long. We do them seasonally. So it's really clear,
Heather Ebanks: Okay.
Tommy Ludgate: okay, for the next few months or the next few weeks or for this week, this is what I'm focusing on.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: And It just helps you stay centered with, like I'm talking this inner voice, this inner wisdom. That's there all the time. We just can't pay attention to it because that noisy critics kicking up and getting in the way.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Yeah, Mm. Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: I need it too. I do it every, every season. If I haven't done my seasonal vision board, I get that itch of like, I need it. I'm ready for it. And yes,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: I've manifested things and things have come into my reality because I've kept that practice up really regularly. But with that aside, it is just this.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: calming centering practice that's really creative. We're
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: using our hands so you're connecting with that subconscious without having to overthink it and
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: you get into that just yeah calm centered zone of okay, I know
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: what I want. I know what I'm doing. I know how to get myself there.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah, I was gonna talk about your workshops in more detail in a moment, but I was gonna talk about the critic part, know, the inner critic. And, and I think I might know your answer, but it'd be interesting to hear it though, is do we silence the inner critic or do we understand it?
Tommy Ludgate: I think it's both. I think we should try to understand it and then we should try to turn the volume down on it.
Heather Ebanks: You
Tommy Ludgate: So rather than have the goal of silencing it, I think that's unrealistic. You're not going to delete that part of your mind, but we can definitely turn the volume down on it. And the important part of identifying what it's saying is to
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: realise that that's not you. So yes, it's part of your mind, but when we can identify
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: it as this, actually characterizing it can be really helpful. You start to be
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: able to talk back to it where you're like, no, sorry, that's not true, or no, thank you to that. So there's an exercise I do with people where you visualize the critic voice, you start
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: to look at how it might look. Like what are its characteristics? How old is it? Is it male or female? Is it, what's it wearing? What's its face expressions? What's the tone and voice? Like as many details as you possibly can so that you're able to see it as this separate part of you or separate to you altogether. Then you're able,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: if you like journaling, you're able to then maybe journal out the things that it's saying. That's when you really start arguing with it.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: I've got this sort of teenage character. I think I named her Zelda, like quite
Heather Ebanks: you
Tommy Ludgate: goth looking, miserable. And it's that, you
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: know, if she's having a go at me, I stick up for myself. I'm like, nah, you're not invited to this conversation. Off you go. And it's that thing of you would never allow a friend to talk to themselves in the way that we talk to ourselves. So, you know,
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: how would you... How would you step in and stick up for a friend against this critic voice is quite a good way of looking at it
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: because sometimes we can be too tied up in it ourselves. yeah,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: if you're able to write it out and write out that narrative, it's quite easy to then just close the book and put it to one side. Okay, that's that voice move
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: it to one side. How you know, what do I want to move on with now? But again, a visualization can be to think of a volume. button and turn down the volume on that voice but you know again i'm saying this like wham bam so easy but i still have that noisy critic voice every day it's
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: just whether i choose to do something with it and get it out my way or let it take
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: over the dynamic of the day
Heather Ebanks: you're of, you're basically saying you're training your inner critic to, you know, like you say, turn the volume down. also maybe certain situations or scenarios, that inner critic is the most vocal and you have to probably know when to see those signs and when to adjust accordingly. you probably do some sort of like exercises within your workshops to maybe tap into that part of your inner critic. if people unlock more than just their ideas, they unlock a lot of emotion while they're going through these workshops. Why do you think creative people are so, maybe they're scared of feeling those emotions when they're doing your workshops?
Tommy Ludgate: Hmm, I so I haven't used that particular process in workshops actually. But it's a great idea. So I should probably bring that into somewhere.
Heather Ebanks: Cool.
Tommy Ludgate: But I think you're right to say that we tap into emotion, because I
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: have seen that happen. And it happens very quickly. And I would say it's not something to be resistant to. if we can help it
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: because we're so resistant to I think we're often resistant to feeling something that's uncomfortable because it's uncomfortable and
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: you know I've had so much experience of people tapping into tears crying crying can often feel like a negative
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: because it's so exposing and you feel vulnerable and that feels uncomfortable. I've become so comfortable with holding space for tears because I've seen over many years, particularly with the singing and vocal coaching that I did at the first part of my career, when I'm working with people to connect with songs, to connect with the stories, to connect with the lyrics, of course
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: that sometimes taps into an emotion that we're holding. and tears come and I'd always celebrate it. I'd be like, no, this is brilliant because it means you're really connecting with what a song is saying. And, you know, that's why we love
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: music. makes us feel something. But equally, I've seen it happen in vision board workshops when people started journaling and suddenly, because they're
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: still and they've given themselves space to put themselves first, the emotions come. But I think, yeah, trying to overcome any resistance to that. is such a positive
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: because if we're holding something in energetically it's
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: just sitting there and
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: it's getting in the way of something and whether that means your critic voice becomes louder as a result or it means you can't
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: access the creative ideas that actually you have waiting there for you to connect with or you can't I suppose connect with that confidence you maybe want and clarity you want in what you're doing.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: It's an important part of existing as a, well, I was gonna say creative, but also a human being in the world.
Heather Ebanks: Mmm, yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: I suppose this is something that comes to me maybe a little bit easier than other people and I'm quite aware
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: of it because... In friendship groups, I've always been the person that speaks their mind and friends who have, I don't know,
Heather Ebanks: you
Tommy Ludgate: had trouble sleeping, they're like, you sleep well, don't you? I'm like, oh yeah, I can fall asleep straight away.
Heather Ebanks: You
Tommy Ludgate: They're like, that's because you always just say how you feel and you've moved on.
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: And it's not just, you know, I have to be aware that I can be so direct that I also need to be sensitive to what I'm saying and what I'm sharing, but I haven't found it difficult to express myself. I don't know where that comes
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: from, but I'm aware that that's something that I can access more easily than some people.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, most people like once they finally trust their own voice, it's almost freeing. And like you say, you can sleep better at night. You don't have that kind of worry on your shoulders. And you know,
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm.
Heather Ebanks: you can go about your day without dealing with another extra extra voice and
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm.
Heather Ebanks: nickel in at you throughout the day. So yes, and, and regards to like, I think you touched on this earlier about your singing and Maybe you also mentioned about your nature and reflection and you've got so many different elements going on with regards to how you bring all those together. But why have you decided that that was the best way to bring all of those elements into your coaching? the ones that are going to work the best when you coach people, when you get them to trust their own voice.
Tommy Ludgate: Hmm, it's been an evolution really. think I've, I'm quite, I'm quite impulsive and knee jerk with things. So if I, if something captures my interest, I'll look into
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: it and I'll pursue it. And even, even how I moved into training as a life coach was a bit like that. Not literally like, I like it, I'll look onto a course, but
Heather Ebanks: you
Tommy Ludgate: If something, you know, it got my interest through some teaching training that I was doing and I could see the benefits that it would have for all the creatives that I worked with. But then, you know, once I trained and once I started to build that as a business, I've over a long period of time, just tried things out, I think. I,
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: I suppose it might've been in lockdown, just spending more time walking alone. And
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: I created a, guided walk with a friend of mine that was all about boosting your creativity. And
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: so it's just where I've tried things and seen the evidence of it working really well and then just, yeah, bringing it all together. So nature is definitely a powerful, powerful tool for
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: thinking and processing and
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: finding inspiration. but also not just being in nature, but actually moving slowly through nature is so impactful.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: Like I say, the collage, working with people through sound and music, and it's all just very creative ways to
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: work with people on their
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: mindset, their goals,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: their development and... because it speaks to me and I get so much from it, feels like a great way to
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: facilitate for others.
Heather Ebanks: Mm hmm. Yeah, I remember those are lockdown days. A lot of people, positive and negative, and people reacted very differently. And maybe what they didn't
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm.
Heather Ebanks: have was like going out and being felt that they were controlled and they've been told they can do so much within their own within their own two mile radius of
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm.
Heather Ebanks: you know, they can go only can go at certain times and then you only appreciate those moments and that freedom like going out for a in a park when you don't have those. those opportunities. So there's a lot of rules and regulations and restrictions. So
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm.
Heather Ebanks: do you feel like when you are creative, what happens when you let go of that structure? You said that you don't see creativity has having rules at all. And what rules do you see creative holding on to? actually limit them? Do you think?
Tommy Ludgate: You know, just as you were asking that question, I was thinking, actually, when we have
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: some limitations set as a way of creating,
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: can be so, it can be like really sparky, it can give you so many ideas. So I think it's this balance of freedom versus
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: some structure. Like I'm just thinking to
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Tommy Ludgate: a poetry, master class I went to and we were given
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: certain rhyming structures that we had to try out or we had to go out into the space and look for certain things and actually I did this recently
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: in a creative nature workshop where it was like go and stare at one plant and write something and my sister
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: came with me who's not she would say she's not creative. She even said at the start of the thing, I'm not a writer, I'm not very good reading, but let's see what happens.
Heather Ebanks: you
Tommy Ludgate: And when she went and stared at a plant, she wrote a whole poem about a rosemary bush and she came back and was delighted. She's like, I'm a poet. She's even printed it and put it up in her kitchen. But I
Heather Ebanks: Cool.
Tommy Ludgate: think it's knowing when you need structure and when you need freedom. So there's going to be
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: times where you respond better to giving yourself space and. giving yourself time and slowing down and maybe
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: going for a walk and really nurturing
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: yourself in that way. But then there might be other times where showing up for your creativity because you've got a 10 minute window, like I know I respond to both of the
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: things that I'm saying, both work for me. Sometimes I can
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: write a song and I've got my three year old running around in the garden and something's just come to me and if I begin I'm like an idea is coming and I follow that thread. So
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: Maybe it's also just being open to both. Open to
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: trying both giving yourself freedom or trying to set yourself a bit of structure or limitation because it can actually be positive sometimes.
Heather Ebanks: It sounds a great way of, you know, being, definitely seems to be doing a lot of good work within your, your coaching and, definitely, it sounds very exciting.
Tommy Ludgate: Thank you.
Heather Ebanks: but it, but if there's like, they could take away from this conversation about their creative voice. What would it be? What should it be?
Tommy Ludgate: I think the number one thing would be acknowledging, accepting that you have a creative voice. So it particularly for the people listening who are like, well, I'm not really creative, but I just I'm kind of curious about it. So I'm
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: or often label themselves as not creative to just be open to the fact that you have something to say, whether that's in a creative art form or not, whether that's... I don't know, I just, I always think about just how we're communicating within our lives. Like there's, there's
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: something to connect on because as humans, we need human connections. So, you know, we
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: might, we might create that into something that's an art form that people can soak up and experience. Or it might just be the way in which you're communicating with the people closest to you. there's, I think that's more about voice, not necessarily creative voice, but you have a voice and yeah, it may be that you share in a creative way or it may just be about what your voice sounds like in your
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: conversations, in your relationships. Are
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: you listening to yourself? Are you expressing that on the outside as truthfully
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: as you possibly can?
Heather Ebanks: Great advice. if anybody, Tommy wants to reach out to you how are people going to reach out to you and support you in your business? How do they contact you?
Tommy Ludgate: Well, my website is tommyluggate.com. That's probably the easiest way to land with me, but I'm on Instagram, I'm on email, I'm on LinkedIn. So yeah, whichever way people, you know, we all like different places to be, don't we? But I'd for meeting people and I do a discovery call. So anyone's welcome to jump on a call with me and have a chat and ask questions and get to know me a bit better. thank you so much for having me.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: am a voice and identity coach for creatives. My background is as a singer, an artist and songwriter myself, and I've been coaching for the last seven years, having had a career in music as a vocal coach. acknowledging, accepting that you have a creative voice. So it particularly for the people listening who are like, well, I'm not really creative, but I just I'm kind of curious about it. So I'm
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: or often label themselves as not creative to just be open to the fact that you have something to say, whether that's in a creative art form or not, I always think about just how we're communicating within our lives. Like there's, there's
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: something to connect on because as humans, we need human connections. we might create that into something that's an art form that people can soak up and experience. Or it might just be the way in which you're communicating with the people closest to you.
Heather Ebanks: I'm joined by Tommy Ludgate, voice and identity coach, singer, songwriter, and someone helping creatives reconnect with the parts of themselves that exist underneath performance, pressure and perfectionism. Tommy's approach to creativity is deeply human. Less build a personal brand, more learning to trust your instincts again. Through music, coaching, and her own creative journey, she's become fascinated by what happens when we stop trying to fit into boxes and start expressing ourselves honestly instead. In this conversation, we explore the inner critic, creative confidence, self-expression, and the emotional side of sharing your work. We talk about singing, nervous systems, nature, marketing, creativity in a world that rewards performance and why reconnecting with play and curiosity can completely shift the way we create. This episode is an invitation to turn the volume down on the inner critic and to listen a little closer to your own voice.
Tommy Ludgate: I come from such a voice-led background and spent so many years singing and performing on stage and being a part of choirs and backing vocal groups and being part of that team environment, I suppose, with bringing voice to people's ears on stage. yeah, so really the voice is at the center of the work that I do.
Heather Ebanks: Cool. you've probably grown up around the music industry and were your parents part of the industry or was it just something that you took on board from a young age?
Tommy Ludgate: Yeah, funny you ask. I, well, both, I would say. me and some friends made our first girl group in the playground at school, at primary school. And that is really
Heather Ebanks: Cool. Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: where singing as a career began for me. Both of my parents, mum and dad, are very creative from film background. And my step-mom, was the one who had been working for a big major record label. And so the
Heather Ebanks: Hmm?
Tommy Ludgate: little girl band that we made in the playground became signed to a record label. So yeah, there's a lot of crossover with where it began. And I'd say it's a bit of both.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah. Do you remember the name of your band?
Tommy Ludgate: Absolutely. It was D to devotion to music, which one of the girls dreamt up after we saw there's a statue in Covent Garden, I think area near Leicester Square
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: that has devotion written on the side of it. And she dreamt it up after we'd
Heather Ebanks: you
Tommy Ludgate: been in town. But yeah, was it was a really big part of my experience learning to perform
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: and finding my voice.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: in that era of my life, but you know, I got a lot of confidence from the experience that I had doing that.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: It was incredible really.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm, think you probably touched upon this question I was going to ask you about. What did you absorb with that experience consciously and unconsciously about what it means to be a creative?
Tommy Ludgate: Hmm, that's a big question. I would say the obvious things that are conscious are, like I say, like having experience performing.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: We did a load of radio road shows. I don't know if even exist now, but we travel around the country performing.
Heather Ebanks: Okay. Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: We got to work with a really renowned producer, Steve Max, who spent time in the recording studio. We traveled, we went to other countries, we performed on TV. We were on the big breakfast back in the day and live and kicking for anyone that remembers. So
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. No.
Tommy Ludgate: obviously being exposed to, I suppose like quite a high pressure situation where you have to perform and you might have nerves and there were maybe experiences where it didn't go so well and the experiences where it did. There's a lot of learning in that. So there's the
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: obvious sort of... impact on me as a creative. We wrote
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: some of the songs so that was really like the birth of me songwriting and putting ideas out there but I suppose there's probably also a subconscious part that's maybe a bit more negative like the expectation on we were very young girls and at that time what the music industry
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: was like and things like image and
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: creating something that's gonna sell It was quite novelty what we're creating. So I'm kind of glad
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: in hindsight that we didn't have massive success because I wouldn't want that to be, I wouldn't have wanted that
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: to shape my career as it stands now. But yeah,
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: like a lot of shaping of... who I am as a creative. But I'd say on the most
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: part, a very positive impact on what I was then able to do as I grew older and
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: what I've done in my career as a, I suppose, like
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: self-employed person making a living
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: out of my creativity.
Heather Ebanks: Mm hmm. Yeah, and I think it's been your younger and especially in an industry like music industry, you always have to find your place and try and fit in and it sounds like you started to trust your own voice fully quite earlier on. And that's definitely a positive thing, especially for younger people who are trying to make their way as a creative. It can be very tough out there. What
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm.
Heather Ebanks: do you think is what's the difference between say performing and expressing your creativity, there must be a sort of difference between those two.
Tommy Ludgate: Oh, 100%. And I think that's something that I reflect on more at this stage in my life. I've just recently turned 40.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: So, you know, it's a very different place to
Heather Ebanks: you
Tommy Ludgate: be than that young age or in my twenties.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: I think I did learn to trust my voice in maybe that I was confident to put myself out there, but I would say that I'm only
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: really learning. to trust my instincts on what I want to create now. I really noticed this in the songwriting process where
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: maybe back when I was younger, you'd be creating and writing and comparing to your peers and being
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Tommy Ludgate: concerned with the end result and then it can become quite performative. I think at this
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: stage in my life when I'm creating and I'm writing, I'm doing it more from a place of... expression so it's really
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Tommy Ludgate: more more honesty and more tapping into like my real lived experience but it's still really difficult
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: I think it's really difficult to be in the moment in your creative process and not begin to think what's my audience going to be who's going to like this
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: what you know and As creatives, mean, I know speaking for myself, I'm so used to that cycle
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: of the process of like, I'm here creating something, then I know that it's going to get to the point of releasing that thing or sharing that thing or trying to
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: sell that thing. And so you sort of had have several
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: hats on. So being able to stay in the moment and stay in your
Heather Ebanks: Yeah,
Tommy Ludgate: true expression is a challenge, but it's important.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm. Mm. Yeah, definitely. And, and along with all of that, you as an all creative, no matter what creative direction you go in and what industry you're in, in the creative world, you do put a lot of yourself into your, art and, and have you ever felt like, whether you've been on stage at all that you felt disconnected? from what you were singing or what you were performing and how did that make you feel?
Tommy Ludgate: Yeah, more often than not, I would say.
Heather Ebanks: Mm, okay.
Tommy Ludgate: I think because particularly if you've trained in something and you've been
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: taught how to do it, you learn certain techniques of how to be on stage, might be good, what might make a good performance, how you might overcome nerves to actually be
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: in the moment with yourself enough to get into a real flow, really connected, I think is really difficult. And I can still
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: remember a particular stage I used to perform on in London. There's a place called the Bedford that has this Globe Theatre at the back. And I used to do that gig quite often. It was a showcase night and you could see into the audience. So I would get so distracted.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: I'm so distracted anyway, like we could be talking now and I'll see something outside and be like, ooh, a nice bird.
Heather Ebanks: Ha ha ha ha.
Tommy Ludgate: So on stage, could particularly be, I really read the room, like I'm like that anyway, so I'd notice
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: who was in the audience, maybe what discussion someone was having and the dynamic that was going on and really notice, you know, everything
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: that's going on around me. So it would be less often that I would be really connected to what I was doing
Heather Ebanks: Hmm
Tommy Ludgate: because I could perform and do a good enough job, but that's different to doing a good job and really feeling what you're doing.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: And probably the times when I felt like I got into that place more was actually when I was more nervous. I found like if I'm nervous,
Heather Ebanks: Bye.
Tommy Ludgate: I concentrate a bit harder because I'm having to focus on what I'm doing.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: But also, yeah, it's like getting the right atmosphere of the surroundings and who's in the room and what the audience is feeling. And there's many factors to getting that sweet spot of it feeling really good.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Interesting, because I have no idea about the singing and performing world at all. It's interesting how like now that you're working more in the coaching field, how you brought that part of your career into what you're doing today. So when was the point that you noticed that, hey, I've got something here that could actually connect my experiences and how to find your voice in coaching? How did those two marry together?
Tommy Ludgate: I think it's been a journey over the last maybe 18 months. So it's not
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: years and years of actually getting back
Heather Ebanks: Okay.
Tommy Ludgate: to my own voice.
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: That's been the leading factor. So I've got two boys, one of them three, one of them seven. So obviously coming out of having my second child, I've always stayed connected with my creativity. I made my podcast when he
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: was little and did a series of that. I found myself writing more when I've been in the early stages of having kids. But it's only
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: been now that I'm drawn a line under, okay, I'm not having any more kids. I'm done with that. I'm sort of getting back to myself and
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: feeling like there's that space to be writing again and taking
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: my artistry seriously. I think I just got to a point where I like, actually, all of my experience is relevant.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: So it can all come under one umbrella. Who I am is
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: what my coaching is. you know, coaching is such a broad skill. There's so many broad learnings and
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: so many industries. You know, it's a life coaching. It's about the whole person.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: So it can look different in many different places and many different industries. And for me, I was seeing that I was starting to do some singing work with people again, having been doing just more straight ahead coaching, always with creatives and in creative industries.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: But with the people that I'd started doing singing with, I was noticing we're not necessarily working on singing to be singers, we're working on how
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: do we get more confident in using our voice out loud? And I was seeing people say,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: I said yes to this thing that I never would have said yes to just because we'd been doing the singing.
Heather Ebanks: Right, yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: So it's not about, want to stand up on stage, but I do, people want to go through their lives feeling like they can use their voice authentically to say the things
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: that they're thinking in their head. Like, I really want to say yes to that. there it is. Like I can
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: connect with that confidence. Or
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: I think there's a big part of voice being internal as well as external. So for me, the work
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: is not just about what we hear out loud, but actually connecting with.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: the inner voice. So perhaps it's always
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: been a part of the coaching. It's just I'm seeing it through that lens a bit more clearly now.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. The voices are very powerful, not just literally, but your inner voice you were saying, and, a lot of people have a lot to say, but they don't vocalize it. And it was interesting how you, bring that into your coaching. And, so as creatives, you know, you've worked with many different types over the, over the years. What is, have you seen like an emotional pattern that you keep comes up again and again that people don't talk about publicly as a creative.
Tommy Ludgate: I think it does get talked about, but a very common
Heather Ebanks: Okay.
Tommy Ludgate: theme is that inner critic voice and
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Tommy Ludgate: what we experience in the cycle of our creativity. It can be there really loud sometimes, it goes away other times, but those sort of the beliefs that we hold that may be narrated by this critic voice.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: definitely act as a big barrier for people with their creativity, I think. And that's often
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: a big part of the work that I do with people.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. So if anyone's like struggling to specifically define their creative identity, where would they begin? How would they start to to find their voice?
Tommy Ludgate: I think the first thing is often standing still where you are,
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: literally, but also taking a moment to look back at
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: the things that you have created, that have existed, that have gone well. I call it like a creativity
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: portfolio, but how often do
Heather Ebanks: Okay.
Tommy Ludgate: we achieve the thing we've been working towards? And then it's like, okay, that's
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: done right. What's next? And we're heading forwards again. actually to just stand still
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: in the moment, but almost create a physical, almost, I don't know, I like to think of it as like a magazine, but like a portfolio of the things that you've done
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: over your whole lifetime. Like when I'm talking about being a kid and I'm in this girl band, I could just disregard that. I mean, I have a lot, because I think, God, that's a bit embarrassing. But actually if we're talking about it and I'm noticing all the value that that gave me, having this portfolio
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: that particularly in the times when you're like, this is rubbish, I've got no ideas, I'm blocked, you're comparing yourself to other
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: people, know, all the traps that we fall into, you're able
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: to look at that and see the evidence that yes, you have this
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: creative voice, it exists. Because I think when you're saying, how do people find that identity or that creative voice, often it's
Heather Ebanks: Hmm. Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: that we don't even believe it's a thing.
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: We hear even people, you know, say, I'm not creative. I couldn't do that. I don't agree with that. think that we all are. But so I suppose,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah. Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: yeah, the first step is acknowledging that it exists and that there's
Heather Ebanks: Mmm. Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: highly likely a lot of evidence to show you where
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: it's been existing. And then if you've got that portfolio, you're able to start seeing the shape
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: of what that voice is and the things
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: that you tend to like more.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: the way you express yourself. I often think back to when I was creating, when I was studying. So I did a performance degree with a bunch of other amazing singers and creatives and songwriters. And when you're that age, you're so vulnerable to that comparison and thinking, well,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: I really like the way she's doing it. I think I want to do it like that. And I remember feeling like, everything I'm writing is so obvious. It's so obvious, it's
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: so overdone, but actually, no, no, that is my creative voice. That's my unique identity. It feels obvious because it feels easy for me to create in that way.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: So it's, beginning to just self-reflect and really noticing
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: what you go to naturally, what you've been creating already, what's the sort of threads running through that portfolio that
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: you can create for yourself.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, great way of putting it in the portfolio. But there's a lot of unpacking, isn't there, as human beings?
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm.
Heather Ebanks: We've got to unlearn what we've been taught, what we think was the right way of doing things. And it's kind of like somehow between childhood to teenager to adulthood, we kind of give these kind of, you know, our peers as well, even getting involved in our heads and our minds but then you probably have to go back to the beginning almost. and figure out what's true to yourself and what you believe in and go from there. So, and definitely
Tommy Ludgate: Mm.
Heather Ebanks: with your coaching, sounds like you're helping people to do that.
Tommy Ludgate: And I think just to say it's also, I don't think anyone's ever arrived at the place that we think is this dream place where we feel like
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: we've got all this clarity and we know exactly what we are and how we describe it and it's unique and we feel amazing in it. I just don't think that exists. Like I'm saying this, but I also experience
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: exactly what I'm saying where I need
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: that time to reflect. I get myself in a tangle trying to explain what it is that I'm doing in my work and feeling like,
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: it clear? Isn't it clear? Have I explained it right?
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: I avoid or don't make enough time for my own artistry. I'm doing better at that at the moment and I'm setting up,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: you know, some writing sessions and I'm dipping a toe in thinking, yeah, I'd quite like to make my own music and release it again. And, but you know, I'm not, I'm never there. I'm just... maybe one step ahead of someone listening to this
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: or I'm backing myself maybe that little bit more, but I'm not in a place of like, I've arrived and I'm, you know, feeling tip top. It's just, it's a
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: process all of the time. It's just how much you're willing
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: to have that self-awareness and notice and work
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: with it and make time and space. But even like me saying to you,
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: I've... Got some writing sessions booked in. I need the sessions with the other people for me to show up for it. I find it really
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Tommy Ludgate: hard to do on my own amidst my busy life with kids. You know, it's not, it's not easy.
Heather Ebanks: Okay. Yeah, But you should start in it and you're doing it.
Tommy Ludgate: Right.
Heather Ebanks: You'll find a way to do what you're passionate about. So even though you have a busy life.
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm. Thanks for the encouragement. Thank you.
Heather Ebanks: You've got this. You know, with people who are listening to this conversation and, you know, can you distinguish between what is an inner critic, what is your true voice? And how can someone tell the difference between the inner and the true voice critic? They might be bit confusing to some people what an inner voice is and an outer voice is.
Tommy Ludgate: Mm-hmm. So let's start with inner and outer voice.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: So the inner voice is, I would describe as thoughts in our mind.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: It may be critical, so it might be that like noisy chitter-chatter. I always describe the inner critic as noisy. And there's more you
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: can do to define that critic voice, which we could maybe go into in a second. But you've also got this wisdom. So when I talk about inner voice, I think there's this wisdom that we hold where
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: we know the answers, we know what we need. It's how we tap into that. When I talk about outer voice, it's,
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: I suppose, the voice we hear out loud. So the way we're communicating in our work,
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Tommy Ludgate: the way we're communicating to the outer world, the way we're communicating in our relationships with partners, with family, with kids, friends. So it's quite literally, I suppose, the quiet inner voice, as in there's no
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: sound to that voice. And then the voice that we sound that loud.
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: A lot of the work I do around inner voice, when we're listening to the true voice that we... I think should be listening to, so it's not the critical voice, it's not getting in our way, it's not trying
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: to wobble us off or throw us off or,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: you know, but equally not that critical voice can be that sort of fear coming in to keep us safe, it's a human instinct,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: but there's this wisdom where when you can tap into that, into your subconscious mind and the things
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: that your gut instinct and your intuition
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: you find answers that you can feel so confident about. So I've been running
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: vision board workshops for many years now. And these workshops are where I see the most obvious evidence of this happening, where people arrive,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: they're in that place of like, don't really know the answers, feel like they should already know what's going to be on their collage by the end, sort of trying to control it. And then I get them
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: into this space of, okay, we get centered, we calm, we journal. I have particular prompts that I know will connect people to the things that they need to know. We work with a playlist and we just collect loads of stuff and it's really gut instinct reactive. So I always say like pick out
Heather Ebanks: Hmm
Tommy Ludgate: colors you're drawn to, textures, words, images,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: just whatever it is, rip it out the magazine. Don't think about it too much. By the
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: end, we then start to shape what the boards are looking like and people eventually glue everything down.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: And I often get the feedback where people are like, this is the stuff that's been floating around in my mind. I've just been ignoring it. And now
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: I can see it right there in front of me. It's like this clear picture and it's never a vision
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: board for the year. I think that's too long. We do them seasonally. So it's really clear,
Heather Ebanks: Okay.
Tommy Ludgate: okay, for the next few months or the next few weeks or for this week, this is what I'm focusing on.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: And It just helps you stay centered with, like I'm talking this inner voice, this inner wisdom. That's there all the time. We just can't pay attention to it because that noisy critics kicking up and getting in the way.
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Yeah, Mm. Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: I need it too. I do it every, every season. If I haven't done my seasonal vision board, I get that itch of like, I need it. I'm ready for it. And yes,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: I've manifested things and things have come into my reality because I've kept that practice up really regularly. But with that aside, it is just this.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: calming centering practice that's really creative. We're
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: using our hands so you're connecting with that subconscious without having to overthink it and
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: you get into that just yeah calm centered zone of okay, I know
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: what I want. I know what I'm doing. I know how to get myself there.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah, I was gonna talk about your workshops in more detail in a moment, but I was gonna talk about the critic part, know, the inner critic. And, and I think I might know your answer, but it'd be interesting to hear it though, is do we silence the inner critic or do we understand it?
Tommy Ludgate: I think it's both. I think we should try to understand it and then we should try to turn the volume down on it.
Heather Ebanks: You
Tommy Ludgate: So rather than have the goal of silencing it, I think that's unrealistic. You're not going to delete that part of your mind, but we can definitely turn the volume down on it. And the important part of identifying what it's saying is to
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: realise that that's not you. So yes, it's part of your mind, but when we can identify
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: it as this, actually characterizing it can be really helpful. You start to be
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: able to talk back to it where you're like, no, sorry, that's not true, or no, thank you to that. So there's an exercise I do with people where you visualize the critic voice, you start
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: to look at how it might look. Like what are its characteristics? How old is it? Is it male or female? Is it, what's it wearing? What's its face expressions? What's the tone and voice? Like as many details as you possibly can so that you're able to see it as this separate part of you or separate to you altogether. Then you're able,
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: if you like journaling, you're able to then maybe journal out the things that it's saying. That's when you really start arguing with it.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: I've got this sort of teenage character. I think I named her Zelda, like quite
Heather Ebanks: you
Tommy Ludgate: goth looking, miserable. And it's that, you
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: know, if she's having a go at me, I stick up for myself. I'm like, nah, you're not invited to this conversation. Off you go. And it's that thing of you would never allow a friend to talk to themselves in the way that we talk to ourselves. So, you know,
Heather Ebanks: Mm. Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: how would you... How would you step in and stick up for a friend against this critic voice is quite a good way of looking at it
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: because sometimes we can be too tied up in it ourselves. yeah,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: if you're able to write it out and write out that narrative, it's quite easy to then just close the book and put it to one side. Okay, that's that voice move
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: it to one side. How you know, what do I want to move on with now? But again, a visualization can be to think of a volume. button and turn down the volume on that voice but you know again i'm saying this like wham bam so easy but i still have that noisy critic voice every day it's
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: just whether i choose to do something with it and get it out my way or let it take
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: over the dynamic of the day
Heather Ebanks: you're of, you're basically saying you're training your inner critic to, you know, like you say, turn the volume down. also maybe certain situations or scenarios, that inner critic is the most vocal and you have to probably know when to see those signs and when to adjust accordingly. you probably do some sort of like exercises within your workshops to maybe tap into that part of your inner critic. if people unlock more than just their ideas, they unlock a lot of emotion while they're going through these workshops. Why do you think creative people are so, maybe they're scared of feeling those emotions when they're doing your workshops?
Tommy Ludgate: Hmm, I so I haven't used that particular process in workshops actually. But it's a great idea. So I should probably bring that into somewhere.
Heather Ebanks: Cool.
Tommy Ludgate: But I think you're right to say that we tap into emotion, because I
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: have seen that happen. And it happens very quickly. And I would say it's not something to be resistant to. if we can help it
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: because we're so resistant to I think we're often resistant to feeling something that's uncomfortable because it's uncomfortable and
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: you know I've had so much experience of people tapping into tears crying crying can often feel like a negative
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: because it's so exposing and you feel vulnerable and that feels uncomfortable. I've become so comfortable with holding space for tears because I've seen over many years, particularly with the singing and vocal coaching that I did at the first part of my career, when I'm working with people to connect with songs, to connect with the stories, to connect with the lyrics, of course
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: that sometimes taps into an emotion that we're holding. and tears come and I'd always celebrate it. I'd be like, no, this is brilliant because it means you're really connecting with what a song is saying. And, you know, that's why we love
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: music. makes us feel something. But equally, I've seen it happen in vision board workshops when people started journaling and suddenly, because they're
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: still and they've given themselves space to put themselves first, the emotions come. But I think, yeah, trying to overcome any resistance to that. is such a positive
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: because if we're holding something in energetically it's
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: just sitting there and
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: it's getting in the way of something and whether that means your critic voice becomes louder as a result or it means you can't
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: access the creative ideas that actually you have waiting there for you to connect with or you can't I suppose connect with that confidence you maybe want and clarity you want in what you're doing.
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: It's an important part of existing as a, well, I was gonna say creative, but also a human being in the world.
Heather Ebanks: Mmm, yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: I suppose this is something that comes to me maybe a little bit easier than other people and I'm quite aware
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: of it because... In friendship groups, I've always been the person that speaks their mind and friends who have, I don't know,
Heather Ebanks: you
Tommy Ludgate: had trouble sleeping, they're like, you sleep well, don't you? I'm like, oh yeah, I can fall asleep straight away.
Heather Ebanks: You
Tommy Ludgate: They're like, that's because you always just say how you feel and you've moved on.
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: And it's not just, you know, I have to be aware that I can be so direct that I also need to be sensitive to what I'm saying and what I'm sharing, but I haven't found it difficult to express myself. I don't know where that comes
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: from, but I'm aware that that's something that I can access more easily than some people.
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, most people like once they finally trust their own voice, it's almost freeing. And like you say, you can sleep better at night. You don't have that kind of worry on your shoulders. And you know,
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm.
Heather Ebanks: you can go about your day without dealing with another extra extra voice and
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm.
Heather Ebanks: nickel in at you throughout the day. So yes, and, and regards to like, I think you touched on this earlier about your singing and Maybe you also mentioned about your nature and reflection and you've got so many different elements going on with regards to how you bring all those together. But why have you decided that that was the best way to bring all of those elements into your coaching? the ones that are going to work the best when you coach people, when you get them to trust their own voice.
Tommy Ludgate: Hmm, it's been an evolution really. think I've, I'm quite, I'm quite impulsive and knee jerk with things. So if I, if something captures my interest, I'll look into
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: it and I'll pursue it. And even, even how I moved into training as a life coach was a bit like that. Not literally like, I like it, I'll look onto a course, but
Heather Ebanks: you
Tommy Ludgate: If something, you know, it got my interest through some teaching training that I was doing and I could see the benefits that it would have for all the creatives that I worked with. But then, you know, once I trained and once I started to build that as a business, I've over a long period of time, just tried things out, I think. I,
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: I suppose it might've been in lockdown, just spending more time walking alone. And
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: I created a, guided walk with a friend of mine that was all about boosting your creativity. And
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: so it's just where I've tried things and seen the evidence of it working really well and then just, yeah, bringing it all together. So nature is definitely a powerful, powerful tool for
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: thinking and processing and
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: finding inspiration. but also not just being in nature, but actually moving slowly through nature is so impactful.
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: Like I say, the collage, working with people through sound and music, and it's all just very creative ways to
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: work with people on their
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: mindset, their goals,
Heather Ebanks: Yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: their development and... because it speaks to me and I get so much from it, feels like a great way to
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: facilitate for others.
Heather Ebanks: Mm hmm. Yeah, I remember those are lockdown days. A lot of people, positive and negative, and people reacted very differently. And maybe what they didn't
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm.
Heather Ebanks: have was like going out and being felt that they were controlled and they've been told they can do so much within their own within their own two mile radius of
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm.
Heather Ebanks: you know, they can go only can go at certain times and then you only appreciate those moments and that freedom like going out for a in a park when you don't have those. those opportunities. So there's a lot of rules and regulations and restrictions. So
Tommy Ludgate: Mmm.
Heather Ebanks: do you feel like when you are creative, what happens when you let go of that structure? You said that you don't see creativity has having rules at all. And what rules do you see creative holding on to? actually limit them? Do you think?
Tommy Ludgate: You know, just as you were asking that question, I was thinking, actually, when we have
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: some limitations set as a way of creating,
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: can be so, it can be like really sparky, it can give you so many ideas. So I think it's this balance of freedom versus
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: some structure. Like I'm just thinking to
Heather Ebanks: Right.
Tommy Ludgate: a poetry, master class I went to and we were given
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: certain rhyming structures that we had to try out or we had to go out into the space and look for certain things and actually I did this recently
Heather Ebanks: Yeah, yeah.
Tommy Ludgate: in a creative nature workshop where it was like go and stare at one plant and write something and my sister
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: came with me who's not she would say she's not creative. She even said at the start of the thing, I'm not a writer, I'm not very good reading, but let's see what happens.
Heather Ebanks: you
Tommy Ludgate: And when she went and stared at a plant, she wrote a whole poem about a rosemary bush and she came back and was delighted. She's like, I'm a poet. She's even printed it and put it up in her kitchen. But I
Heather Ebanks: Cool.
Tommy Ludgate: think it's knowing when you need structure and when you need freedom. So there's going to be
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: times where you respond better to giving yourself space and. giving yourself time and slowing down and maybe
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: going for a walk and really nurturing
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: yourself in that way. But then there might be other times where showing up for your creativity because you've got a 10 minute window, like I know I respond to both of the
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: things that I'm saying, both work for me. Sometimes I can
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: write a song and I've got my three year old running around in the garden and something's just come to me and if I begin I'm like an idea is coming and I follow that thread. So
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: Maybe it's also just being open to both. Open to
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: trying both giving yourself freedom or trying to set yourself a bit of structure or limitation because it can actually be positive sometimes.
Heather Ebanks: It sounds a great way of, you know, being, definitely seems to be doing a lot of good work within your, your coaching and, definitely, it sounds very exciting.
Tommy Ludgate: Thank you.
Heather Ebanks: but it, but if there's like, they could take away from this conversation about their creative voice. What would it be? What should it be?
Tommy Ludgate: I think the number one thing would be acknowledging, accepting that you have a creative voice. So it particularly for the people listening who are like, well, I'm not really creative, but I just I'm kind of curious about it. So I'm
Heather Ebanks: Mm.
Tommy Ludgate: or often label themselves as not creative to just be open to the fact that you have something to say, whether that's in a creative art form or not, whether that's... I don't know, I just, I always think about just how we're communicating within our lives. Like there's, there's
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: something to connect on because as humans, we need human connections. So, you know, we
Heather Ebanks: Mmm.
Tommy Ludgate: might, we might create that into something that's an art form that people can soak up and experience. Or it might just be the way in which you're communicating with the people closest to you. there's, I think that's more about voice, not necessarily creative voice, but you have a voice and yeah, it may be that you share in a creative way or it may just be about what your voice sounds like in your
Heather Ebanks: Hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: conversations, in your relationships. Are
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: you listening to yourself? Are you expressing that on the outside as truthfully
Heather Ebanks: Mm-hmm.
Tommy Ludgate: as you possibly can?
Heather Ebanks: Great advice. if anybody, Tommy wants to reach out to you how are people going to reach out to you and support you in your business? How do they contact you?
Tommy Ludgate: Well, my website is tommyluggate.com. That's probably the easiest way to land with me, but I'm on Instagram, I'm on email, I'm on LinkedIn. So yeah, whichever way people, you know, we all like different places to be, don't we? But I'd for meeting people and I do a discovery call. So anyone's welcome to jump on a call with me and have a chat and ask questions and get to know me a bit better. thank you so much for having me.
