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Hey there and welcome to Conversations Worth Your While.
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It's a podcast where we dig into ideas and insights to help you to unleash what you were born to bring.
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I chat with heart-led experts, I ask the questions that you're thinking about, and we explore conversations that spark growth, that shift perspectives, and that help you to show up fully in your life, in your career, and in your community.
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Today we are exploring how to handle difficult situations in business.
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Because so much of what trips us up, and not only in business, but also in life, is how we stay stuck in our own head during these difficult situations.
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We turn it over, we replay it, we're always waiting to feel resolved before we take action.
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But if you've ever caught yourself stuck like that, running that same worry in a loop in your head, this one is for you because in today's conversation, we will share how to get out of your head and respond with confidence and grace.
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I'm your host, Linda Booker.
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And if the life you are in no longer fits, this space is for you.
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Because through coaching and my podcast, I guide purpose-driven people to reconnect to who they truly are, to let go of what they've outgrown, to rediscover their gifts, and create a life that feels aligned and deeply impactful.
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And so if that sparks something within you, you can find me at lyndabooker.com.
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Once again, the topic of today's conversation is how to handle difficult situations in business.
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And today I have the pleasure of being joined by Nancy Quinn of Profit Insider's Coaching.
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And Nancy's making her own beautiful ripples in her own unique way.
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Nancy has rebuilt her life a bunch of times, more than she said she liked to count.
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And now she helps interior designers to do the same with their businesses.
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She helps them fix their pricing, their systems, and she helps them with the confidence gaps that keep the talented designers exhausted and underpaid.
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And she does a whole lot more than that.
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So, Nancy, can you uh yeah, well, first of all, thank you for being here with us today on Conversations With Your While.
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And then I'm hoping you could share a little bit more about what you do and who you do it for.
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Absolutely.
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Well, thank you so much for having me, Linda.
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I really appreciate it.
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I love sharing the message and getting as much confidence-building skills out there into the world because I think it's something that really a lot of people struggle from.
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So, yes, as you said, I'm Nancy Quinn, and previously Nancy Ganserkofer, which is still out there on the internet, which is why I still say it.
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Um, I am probably the most direct and dynamic and no-nonsense business coach to primarily interior designers and other service-based entrepreneurs that you'll ever get to talk to.
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I'm originally from New York.
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Now I live in Florida, and I kind of have that no-nonsense New York style.
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So I help interior designers and other service-based entrepreneurs get more profitable through online coaching, trainings, templates, uh, communication skills, and I'm a body language trainer, which really helps in communication, networking, sales, et cetera.
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So that's what I do, and I love to share whatever I've learned over the years because I've made a lot of mistakes, as everyone has.
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Yeah, for sure.
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We all have as business owners and as humans.
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Um, the body language thing is very interesting.
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I hope we get into that today in our conversation.
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Um okay, so let's start with the difficult situations in business.
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Um, I'm sure everyone can relate.
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Um, sometimes um it's difficult for people to do the networking.
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Sometimes it's difficult for them to do the advertising or the marketing.
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Sometimes they get caught like a deer in headlights when they're asked about their pricing.
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There's a lot of difficulties that business owners go through.
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What are some of the ones that you see the most?
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Well, I want to start out by telling you a funny story, which is kind of where I wrote a book many years ago.
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It's called Respond with Confidence, and it's under my old name, Nancy Gansekofer.
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But what I did is a true story.
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The opening paragraph is um when I was an art framing and accessory consultant, I was working with an interior designer to get artwork for her home.
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And she ended up being a very difficult client for me because she kept changing her mind.
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And I'm summarizing the story.
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So she'd say, This is how much I want to spend, and this is what I want it to look like, and these are the subject matters, and I'd give her a whole bunch and she'd come back and go, Nah, I changed my mind.
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I want this.
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So well, she changed her mind.
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I think we were up to four or five times.
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And one night I'm sitting there with my three kids, TV's on, I got my computer, because you know, entrepreneurs, we work whenever we can.
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Right?
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So I'm I see this email come in where she's changing her mind again.
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So I hit forward, type, do you believe this blood bleep bleep woman?
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I am at my wit's end with her, right?
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Thinking I'm forwarding it to my assistant.
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Send.
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Can you can you predict what I actually did?
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You hit reply.
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Exactly.
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I hit reply.
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It was nine o'clock at night.
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I did not know what to do.
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It was back when blackberries were first out, but regular cell phones, you couldn't recall messages.
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And I, my two of my kids were teenagers, one was younger, I just started screaming.
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I just lifted up my laptop.
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I went, I realized it right away, Linda.
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And I was like, somebody show me how to recall this message.
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She has a blackberry, she's gonna get this right away.
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It was really a poor expression of who I was at the time.
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I very, very rarely would get frustrated like that, but it just between the kids, being tired, whatever excuses I wanted to give myself, I made a big mistake that was gonna affect uh business relationships.
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So what did I do?
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I jumped up, ran into a private bathroom, and called her right away.
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I addressed it right away, rather than going overnight and waiting for her to read it.
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And that nerves and that rumination I was really struggling with.
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I just messed up.
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How do I solve it?
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So got on the phone with her, had a quick conversation, begged her to delete and not read it.
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I will tell you, she definitely read it because she never called me again after that.
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And just as an additional little fun uh addition to this story.
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So I'm doing a presentation in front of 120 people on Long Island eight years later, after that situation.
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I had already written my book.
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I obviously gave her a pseudonym in the book.
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I didn't name who it was.
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I walk into this presentation on Long Island where I had been hired to do it, and everyone was getting a free book.
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It was in all the gift bags, and there she is right in front of me, as soon as I walked in the door.
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Oh my God, what am I gonna do?
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She doesn't even know I wrote a book, probably.
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She doesn't know she's the opening story in the book.
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She may not even remember.
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Anyway, once again, typical me, especially after writing my book.
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I'm like, I'm gonna address the situation right away.
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I walked right up to her.
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I said, Hi, I'm Nancy.
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Do you remember me?
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She goes, Of course I remember you.
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And we cleared the air.
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She laughed.
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She said, It's okay, we all make mistakes.
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And it ended up being quite a pleasant night.
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What a great story.
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That's fantastic.
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Um, and the little ending is really interesting too.
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So um, first I want to talk about the fact that, you know, a difficult client, like especially like in the interior design business, but in a lot of businesses, the ones that they're changing their mind and they're expecting you to, you know, do more for free, you know, right?
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And I was actually just talking about this on another podcast episode uh that's um that just came out, um uh regarding scope of work, you know, and in when you're writing your contract, she's a lawyer and how, you know, yeah, the the it scope creep is a real thing unless everything's black and white, yes or no.
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Like you will you can revise this three times.
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After the fourth time, you will pay this much, you know, whatever.
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So we do have some things like that, um, that that because it is real and true that we have clients like this, even you can be the best communicator, but you might still have difficult situations in business like this.
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Um, I love that you nip things in the bud.
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Um, a lot of people are feel way too awkward, way too self-conscious.
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Um, it's it's too, it's almost like between two evils of being in my head all night, or the the awkwardness of showing up and and feeling like I did something wrong and I'm so sorry and I have to fess up, that it's easier for them to be in their head.
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Like so I think sometimes my people might even choose staying in their head versus taking action and nipping it in the bud.
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So I think we should talk a little bit about the that fear, that fear of addressing what's going on, especially when we make it mean more about us.
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Yes.
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And and honestly, my first advice is always let's decompress first.
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Okay.
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Before we like that first story, I didn't have time to decompress.
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I ran into the bathroom and I just tried to deal with it and look, you know, didn't handle it too well, honestly.
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But the second time I did, before I actually walked up to her, I did think through.
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I decompressed, my heart was racing.
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I'm like, okay, let me calm myself down first, go talk to a couple of other people, then figure out in my head, um, you know, analyze my emotions, release some emotion and some nerves by, you know, getting it out there in whatever way I could, which was talking to a friend of mine that I had there.
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And then think through the solution, right?
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As opposed to just ruminating on what the story I think that person is telling them, and I get stuck.
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And now days later, weeks later, months later, people live in rumination for years and years, Linda.
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And it's so debilitating to their emotional health, to their emotional health.
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Um, so analyzing your emotions, understanding them, then releasing them, and then being solution focused is kind of where I try to direct everybody initially.
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Does that make sense?
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Oh, yeah, that absolutely makes sense.
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Um, and I can tell you that in all my 17 years of doing this um as a coach, um, a lot of people, that story is their whatever story they're making up is a go-to because they don't feel good enough in some way.
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And then when they make a mistake, it triggers that not enoughness that they're all walking around with.
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And if you don't address that that I'm not enoughness, then almost anything's gonna trigger you.
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Um, because what happens is then when someone asks more of us or whatever, and we feel like a victim, right?
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The victim is there's not I I'm not good enough, there's not enough for me.
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Uh everything always happens to me.
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That's all that victim mentality all happens because people don't feel good enough and they feel like life is happening to them, business is happening to them, they're attracting these poor clients or whatever.
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So it's it's worth noting that it's a really important place to start is to repair that sense of worthiness.
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Because if you don't believe that you're worthy of being treated uh beautifully instead of poorly, then you're gonna jump to the stories in your head, and you're gonna be if you don't believe that, you're gonna be less likely to actually take this action, to approach someone with that confidence, and you won't be able to calm yourself down.
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So knowing, like, wait a minute, you know, like you and I both know I shouldn't be treated that way.
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Okay, you know.
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So we have to know that we're enough in order to be able to say that.
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Um, and then like you're saying, get get, you know, the emotion is faster than all our logic.
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It's just woo, it's super fast.
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So we do have to take that time to really what you what you're saying, take a deep breath, decompress.
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You have to decompress because if you're just acting on pure emotion, what's going to come out is not going to give you the result you're looking for.
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And that's where I say so.
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Step two is assess the situation.
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So the first one is decompress.
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Go for a walk, jump up and down, talk to somebody, do some exercise, listen to some music, shake it out, scream, cry, do whatever you have to do.
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And then when your brain has come down from uh a ridiculous amount of emotion, that you cannot be a good communicator when you're in that type of emotion.
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That's the bottom line, right?
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So you have to decompress first.
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Then you want to assess the situation and you want to say, okay, do I understand where they were actually coming from?
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Maybe I misunderstood the situation.
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Am I telling myself a story about what they're thinking when they're not actually thinking that?
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Right.
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And when it did it all start, like when did the disagreement sort of start?
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And then sometimes, and this is the hard part, and this is what I went through.
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It's okay to be wrong sometimes.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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And we hate to admit it, but we have to say once in a while, we are wrong about something.
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And most of the time, it's from the stories we're telling ourselves.
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That other person must be thinking I'm too expensive.
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That's why they haven't responded to my proposal.
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Um, they must not like me and hired someone else because I haven't heard from them.
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All these stories you're telling yourself.
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How about we actually put facts and find out?
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That's where I literally say practically every day to at least one client, so that's the story you're telling yourself.
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So now let's put the facts behind it.
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Did they say that?
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Well, no.
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Do you know they mean that?
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No.
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So that's what you would think if it was you.
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But how about instead of just assumptions, which we all know what that does to people, we ask questions.
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We actually make the phone call, do the text, do the email.
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I haven't heard from you.
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Can I ask what's going on?
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And I love what some one of my clients coined the grandmother check-in.
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The final check-in on any follow-up is, gee, I haven't heard from you.
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I'm worried.
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Are you okay?
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Make it personal so that somebody can come back and go, I'm okay.
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And then you can have that conversation and find out what they were really thinking, not the pretend story you created.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, that's a good point.
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So I love this.
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This reassess.
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Um, and one of the ways I kind of make it a little funny when I'm sharing this with people about the fact that you're telling a story instead of looking at the real facts is like two things.
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One is if it's, you know, you're making something up, a lot of times it's future-based, you know, they won't, right?
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That they're not going to.
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That's all in the future.
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And here's the thing about the future.
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If you can tell the future, please just tell me tomorrow's lottery numbers.
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Because actually, I saw that Meg Millens, it's up to one billion dollars.
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I went by a billboard last night.
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One billion.
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I'm like, oh my God.
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Okay.
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So if anyone can tell the future, just please give me those numbers.
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I will share, I promise.
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Uh, the second thing is you're making up a story.
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So if you're gonna make up a story, if you insist on making up a story, why would you make one up with a bad ending?
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Why don't you make one up with a happy ending?
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Make it a fairy tale with a happy ending.
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You're making it up.
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And when when I say those two things, it's it's very it's very reminding to people when they're head in their heads, like, wait, I'm making a story.
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Oh, I should make one up with a happy ending, you know.
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Yes, what people don't understand is you're actually choosing what you're thinking about.
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You're choosing what you're thinking about, you're choosing how you're interpreting other people, all based on your own history, your own insecurities, your own brain power, right?
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So the only way to change it is to exercise it just like you would exercise any other muscle, muscle memory.
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Keep pointing out things you're grateful for.
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Everyone's heard this a million times, but it actually works.
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But when you're communicating with somebody, what if it's not that they didn't like you and that that's why they haven't connected?
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It's not that you were too expensive.
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What if it's that their dog got sick?
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Right.
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And I just didn't get to get back to you in time.
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I mean, think about how many days people dwell on shit.
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Okay.
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That that really doesn't affect their daily life.
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And all it does is ruin their life.
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So they're concerned, the client hasn't gotten back to me.
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It's been two days, it's been three days.
00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:21.840
How long should it be till I follow up?
00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:22.720
And what should I say?
00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:24.159
And what if they hired someone else?
00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:27.200
Then what should I then should I ask them why they didn't hire me?
00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:30.159
They literally go down this huge rabbit hole.
00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:34.080
Then I just say, call them and send me a message.
00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:37.600
And is everything okay?
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:44.320
Nine and a half times out of ten, I'll get, oh my god, Nancy, thank you so much for just telling me to call them.
00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:45.679
I made up that whole story.
00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:47.360
I ruined two of my life.
00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:51.200
And it was literally their mother-in-law is sick, and they just didn't get back to me.
00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:52.639
And I'm like, there you go.
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:53.360
Yeah, that's it.
00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:53.759
Exactly.
00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:54.240
Right?
00:16:54.799 --> 00:17:08.480
That's why after you decompress and then you assess the situation from their perspective and your perspective, then I want you to address it by picking up that phone, making the giving the text, find out the real story.
00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:11.200
And here's the kicker, and you know this one, Linda.
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:12.720
Be a good listener.
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:18.480
Stop staying in your head with the story you're trying to prove to yourself and reading between the lines.
00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:20.559
Actually, listen to their words.
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:22.720
That's what they want you to know.
00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:30.240
You don't need to go digging into all the other stuff that they may be thinking because of your own insecurities.
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:37.680
And confidence comes from actually select like um successfully doing something over and over.
00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:44.079
So, real confidence, yes, dig into why you feel that way, your past, your thought process, all that.
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:45.359
I'm all for that.
00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:51.119
But also then take the action because the action is what's going to build your confidence.
00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:55.519
Every time you successfully do something you're afraid of, it builds that muscle.
00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:57.039
Yes, that's very true.
00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:01.119
I love that you've broken this down into these steps for our listeners.
00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:02.240
It's fantastic.
00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:09.039
Because you're, you know, you're in the assessment, you're talking about assess what's really going on in your head, what the truth is.
00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:10.000
Their head.
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:11.680
What could have been going on in their head?
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:12.480
Look at it from both.
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:15.440
Right, from both, but also assessing what's going on in your own head.
00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.319
Oh, I am telling a story, I'm making it up, right?
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:20.000
Um fear.
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:21.920
It's all fear doing that.
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:24.079
And again, the triggers of our own insecurities.
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:25.039
I love that you brought that up.
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:31.519
I like to say that everyone is looking at the world through these goggles that are all covered in schmutz.
00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:34.160
It's our own schmutz, it's our own fears and insecurities.
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:37.279
You mentioned that, um, and you know, our own history.
00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:44.799
And so we can't help but take but it but see life like that and assume other people are seeing life the same way.
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:49.279
And they're not, because they're seeing it through their own lens and their own goggles of their own stuff.
00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:55.039
Or they think the other person is completely misguided because they're not thinking the way you're thinking, right, exactly.
00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:55.359
Right.
00:18:55.519 --> 00:19:02.240
But we have zero control over what people think of us, our services, our pricing.
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:03.680
We have zero control.
00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:12.319
And so, you know, to be open and honest and get to this next step, you're talking about where you're you're in action, where you're well, okay, let's go get those facts.
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:15.519
Let's ask, let's see what's actually going on.
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:27.839
And it's a huge fear reliever because what's going on is nine times out of ten, it's much less fearful than what you were, the story you were spinning in your head.
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:31.119
So when you actually do it, like, oh, I guess that wasn't so bad.
00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:32.720
It wasn't so bad after all.
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:34.240
It's not so bad after all.
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:36.880
And here's a story that I've used.
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:41.359
Uh so my oldest had a lot of issues when he was growing up.
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:52.720
And one of the psychologists who I was working with to help me be the mom of this uh child who was having difficulties, he would say to me, observe the tornado.
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:55.519
Don't get sucked into it, right?
00:19:55.839 --> 00:20:03.359
So my son would spin a tornado about all kinds of emotional stuff, uh, the what people were thinking and all his insecurities.
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.759
And as a new mom, sometimes you get stuck in, like, oh my God, yeah, that's really terrible.
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:22.640
And the other kids, where I started to learn to just step back, be a really good listener, hear what he had to say, his perspective, but not get sucked up into his tornado, because that's when my emotions would start spinning, also.
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:31.599
And then I'm stuck in having to decompress, assess, and address it again rather than right from the beginning, just say it's happening.
00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:34.400
It's their tornado, it's not mine.
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:40.319
And I'm not going to get my emotions wrapped up in it where I can no longer think clearly.
00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:47.519
So learn to be an observer and less of a vortex getting sucked into someone else's drama.
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:49.680
Yeah, that's a really great point.
00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:56.000
I have a different story of how I tell that, but um, you already said it beautifully, so I won't, I won't share that.
00:20:56.160 --> 00:21:04.799
But um we to recognize that we have the power to be an observer or get sucked in.
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:07.759
And we can choose not to get sucked in.
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:15.279
You can look at someone and say, like a lot of times with people who are nasty, because they're nasty, there's nasty people out there, unfortunately.
00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:19.519
A, what you mentioned earlier is we don't know why they're nasty.
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:22.240
You have no idea what's going on that person's life.
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:24.559
It's probably not all about you at all.
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:26.400
It probably has nothing to do with you.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:28.160
So can we have some compassion?
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:32.559
Because you might have a day where it's not your best day and you couldn't be any better than nasty.
00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:37.920
This is the best that person can do in that day with what's going on in their life, their own schmutz, their own history.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:43.440
So even when it's someone that you care about, sometimes that they're like a wounded animal in the corner.
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:45.519
If you go in, you're gonna get scratched and bit.
00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:50.240
So maybe you need to step back and love them from afar and and be compassionate.
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:52.480
Say, wow, they seem to be going through something.
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:57.839
You know, probably the best thing for me to do would be to hold a space, not get sucked in, just hold a space.
00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:59.680
Give them space and let them get.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.160
Through their moment and let them find their way of decompressing.
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:06.319
Yes, because we can't do it for other people.
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:07.519
They won't have that skill.
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:08.240
It's better.
00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:09.519
I love that you mentioned that.
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:11.519
Let them find their own way.
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:12.480
Yeah.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:13.039
Yeah.
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:14.480
Let them go and decompress.
00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:19.839
And, you know, I have core values that I, you know, run my life by.
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:21.119
Am I always perfect with them?
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:21.440
No.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:24.559
But I also say with my company, like we have core values.
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:31.920
You know, um, one of our, it sounds crazy, you're gonna laugh, but one of our values is no apologies in within my team.
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:36.720
Like if my team makes a mistake or I make a mistake, I don't want to hear I'm sorry.
00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:39.599
All I want to hear is, okay, Nancy, this happened.
00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:42.400
This is how it happened, and this is how it's not gonna happen again.
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:43.759
And I'm like, okay, good.
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:51.920
Like, you know, the I'm sorry is just empty if you're not gonna change your behavior to change the, you know, the outcome.
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:54.240
And I feel the same way in my own life.
00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:57.839
Like, there are times you have to say you're sorry, and I get that.
00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:08.559
But for the most part, it's I'm sorry, and this is what happened, this is why it happened, and this is what I put in place so it doesn't happen anymore.
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:17.359
Or it's not gonna happen anymore because it's a past situation and a past system, past process, or you know, past in your life.
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:22.799
So there's so much to communicating well with other people.
00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:31.119
And there's so many difficult situations that everyone runs into every day in their personal life and in their business life.
00:23:31.279 --> 00:23:40.400
And if you're not comfortable communicating through difficult situations, it's something I don't want you to give up on trying to learn because it is something you can learn.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:56.960
And as a body language trainer, you can also learn to read what people's emotions are, maybe different from what they're seeing when you're presenting contracts or whether you're networking with someone or whether what you're saying is uh distasteful to them or something that's appealing to them.
00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:04.079
There are things you can look for that will give you clues as to whether you're being received the way you want to be received.
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:14.640
That's a that's beautiful thing because um a lot of times people are unaware of what they're communicating nonverbally.
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:15.839
They they're not aware.
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:19.440
Okay, I I know I have I could never play poker.
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:22.559
Okay, my eyebrows, they're like they got their own minds.
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:26.880
You know, if I if I am surprised by something, they're way up there.
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:30.240
I have no control over my facial expressions.
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:31.839
So I'm super readable.
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:51.519
Um, but I'd love if you would explain, would share a little bit, just you know, before we hang up, just a little bit about um how we how we might be communicating something, so how we can notice it in others, but also recognize if we're doing if we're in a non-verbal, you know, giving a nonverbal cue we don't intend to give, you know.
00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:52.880
There's so many of them.
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:53.839
Let me pick a few.
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:58.160
Okay, so you know, first of all, eye contact is very important, right?
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:00.079
And a lot of people are not good at it.
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:02.480
So that's something I definitely want people to practice.
00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:11.279
But there's one little trick that's uh people love, and especially when I do this at a live event, when you're there's three different types of gazes.
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:18.079
Okay, there's a power gaze, there's an intimate gaze, and then there's the um like the friendship gaze.
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:20.319
I try to put it in words that people understand.
00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:25.279
The leadership or power gaze, there people do it naturally or they can learn to do it.
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:30.880
Where when you're looking someone in the eye, you're looking them in the eye, but naturally your eyes wander, they look around, okay?
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:39.680
If you're trying to be kind of like that friendly, I want to be your friend, I want you to like me, what you're doing is looking at their eyes and your eyes wander down towards their mouth.
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:43.279
You know, you look at their mouth just for comprehension.
00:25:43.519 --> 00:26:04.000
But if you want to become more the leader in that environment, which could be a proposal you're presenting, you're walking into a room with a client for the first time, uh, you're you're in front of a room making a presentation or running a meeting, when you look at people, don't let your eyes wander below their eye level, wander above their eye level.
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:11.279
So this was a triangle from eyes to mouth, okay, and this invert the triangle to eyes to forehead.
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:24.079
The people who naturally power gaze, and if you start noticing, it's people who are leaders, managers, supervisors, people who are considered efficient tend to power gaze naturally.
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:30.000
And intimate gaze is for your intimate life, and that's your eye level all the way down to like the nape of your neck, right?
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:31.839
That's when you're a romantic partner.
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:33.680
So business.
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:42.079
Um, so switching your gaze and practicing it is a game changer when it comes to sales.
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:43.599
It's a game changer.
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:51.119
You will sell more if you're selling in person for sure, and even on video, there's tricks where you are considered the leader.
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:56.559
When I walk into a room for a networking event, I'm often later being asked, would you like to run a committee?
00:26:56.720 --> 00:26:58.960
Would you like to be the president of it?
00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:00.799
Because I'm naturally power gazing.
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:06.079
I had to teach myself to social gaze because I was a natural power gazer.
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:06.640
Okay.
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:16.880
So just creative people tend to be natural social gazers and um business people who are very business-minded tend to be natural power gazers.
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:18.240
So you can train yourself.
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:19.680
So watch for that.
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:28.799
And if you want to make yourself more perceived as the leader in control of a process, try the power gaze and see how it works for you.
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:30.720
Oh, what a fun tip.
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:32.000
That's fantastic.
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:33.279
All right, great.
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:47.200
Okay, so I always like to ask about um, I mean, that could be your tiny tip, unless you have another tiny tip that you want to share about handling difficult situations more, you know, in alignment with our conversation today.
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:57.119
Um I call it the tiny tip or turtle step, which is the smallest step someone will actually take uh before hitting play on the next podcast episode.
00:27:57.279 --> 00:27:59.440
Um so what would you like to share with that?
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:03.119
I would like to remind everybody, it's an oldie but a goodie.
00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:08.400
Write down, use your writing skills when you need to decompress journal.
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:10.400
Rip it up and throw it out if you have to.
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:14.400
Type it in a private uh Word doc on your computer.
00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:24.880
Writing is so decompressing to get it all out on paper helps you relax and helps you decompress.
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:34.720
So before you're handling any difficult conversation, do that first and make sure that you're understanding where your own mind sits before you respond to anyone.
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:36.480
That's a beautiful suggestion.
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:48.079
Writing absolutely slows us down and makes us pay attention to our thoughts and put them down on paper, and then we can read them later and say, Oh, I just needed to vent that.
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:49.680
I just need to get that out.
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:56.400
Um, you know, I I love the idea of we take got to take responsibility for the our own shit that's in our head.
00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.680
Yeah, we don't give it away to people, it's ours.
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:04.319
I've told so many people, uh, well, they're like, well, what if they say this and what if they say that?
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:07.440
And what if they are trying to prepare for the next step?
00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:10.640
And I say, How about we deal with that when it happens?
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:10.960
Right.
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:16.319
And you're knowledgeable enough to be able to say, Let me think about that and get back to you.
00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:19.839
You don't have to respond to people right in the moment.
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:24.400
You can, it's okay for you as an adult to say, I'm not prepared to answer that right now.
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:25.920
I will get back to you on that.
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:27.119
And that's okay.
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:28.240
Yes, 100%.
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:52.240
And in difficult conversations, um, you know, I'll I'll share with my clients that, you know, when it comes to boundaries, and I we don't have time to get into all that today, um, but when you know the boundary is what you do for yourself, it's it's something for you, not about the other person, and it's certainly not about behavior modification of the other person, because that's not within your power.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:54.000
So it's what am I gonna do for me?
00:29:54.240 --> 00:30:04.160
So if what you're gonna do for you in a difficult situation or difficult conversation is to take it some, take a breather and go decompress, go take that five minutes and decompress.
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:08.640
And you can communicate it, which is another important part of any boundary.
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:11.680
If you don't communicate it, then nobody knows it's a boundary.
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:16.160
And then the third one is you have to enforce it 100% of the time, or else it's just bitching.
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:18.319
So we have to com we have to enforce it.
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:21.920
And the enforcement is um I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a breather.
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:25.359
I'm having, you know, I'm I can't think straight right now because I'm feeling emotional.
00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:26.640
I'm gonna go take a breather.
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:29.440
And what that does beautifully is you take the breather.
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:33.519
The other person also has to take the breather because they can't be, you know, you're taking the breather.
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:37.119
And they're taking a cue from you that, oh, you're getting emotional, you're not thinking straight.
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:39.920
Perhaps I'm getting emotional, I'm not thinking straight, right?
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:49.680
And then when you come back, and like you mentioned earlier, you know, I I was wrong, or you know, I wasn't thinking straight and I wanna I want to listen more.
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:51.039
You know, there's yeah.
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:53.759
Said that and let me try it again.
00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:55.680
Like maybe there was a better way I could have said that.
00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:57.519
You know, that's also an apology, right?
00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:00.799
I make sure I could have said that better and that upset you.
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:02.319
So let's try it again.
00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:04.319
Yeah, but yeah.
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:09.279
So I guess the bottom line, my little five-second tip would be give yourself some grace.
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:11.279
Give yourself some grace.
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:13.440
You don't need to be perfect.
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:16.960
Um, you're you're not a victim of difficult situations.
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:29.599
You have a lot more power and a lot more freedom and a lot more control than you think when it comes to you and your thinking and how you're going to handle it, and zero power and control over what the other person or the situation is.
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:43.519
So, um, how you choose to respond and if you take these steps that Nancy's been sharing with us, um, it's a really easy way to remember to uh respond, and then you can respond with grace and with confidence.
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:45.039
So, well, how beautiful.
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:48.640
Thank you so much, Nancy, for being on Conversations Worth Your While.
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:54.240
Um, if somebody wants a little bit more of your magic and what you got, like what can they do?
00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:55.440
How can they connect with you?
00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:56.559
What do you have?
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:02.880
I would say go to my website, profitinsiderscoaching.com, and I give a free 15-minute clarity call.
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:12.799
I think sometimes when people are in a state of either their business is not doing well, they're not working well with their boss, they're just not happy with what their professional life is doing.
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:14.319
They need someone to talk to.
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:15.519
That's what I'm there for.
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:19.119
If you hop on for a clarity call, we'll have a quick 15-minute chat.
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:21.519
And if I can help you further, I'll let you know.
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:26.640
And if I can direct you to something that will help you, other than me, I will let you know.
00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:32.799
I'm always honest because I want to work with people who actually are a good match for me and I'm a good match for them.
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:34.240
Perfect, beautiful.
00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:41.279
I will be sure to put all your information in the show notes so listeners, you can go to the show notes so you can connect with Nancy.
00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:42.319
So that's our show.
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:49.279
I'm Linda Booker, guiding people to know their worth, to reconnect with their gifts, and to create lives that are fully aligned and deeply impactful.
00:32:49.440 --> 00:33:01.839
So if you're sensing time that it's time to bring your life into deeper alignment, you can explore what that looks like at lindabooker.com where you'll find direction and clarity and a link to book a complimentary clarity chat with me.
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:07.759
If today's episode sparks something for you, please like it and share it and subscribe so you don't miss what's next.
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:12.799
And then join me next week for another uplifting conversation designed to support your growth.
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:19.279
So until next time, make sure you've made this conversation worth your while by fueling the spark that it ignited.
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Hey there and welcome to Conversations Worth Your While.
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It's a podcast where we dig into ideas and insights to help you to unleash what you were born to bring.
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I chat with heart-led experts, I ask the questions that you're thinking about, and we explore conversations that spark growth, that shift perspectives, and that help you to show up fully in your life, in your career, and in your community.
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Today we are exploring how to handle difficult situations in business.
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Because so much of what trips us up, and not only in business, but also in life, is how we stay stuck in our own head during these difficult situations.
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We turn it over, we replay it, we're always waiting to feel resolved before we take action.
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But if you've ever caught yourself stuck like that, running that same worry in a loop in your head, this one is for you because in today's conversation, we will share how to get out of your head and respond with confidence and grace.
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I'm your host, Linda Booker.
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And if the life you are in no longer fits, this space is for you.
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Because through coaching and my podcast, I guide purpose-driven people to reconnect to who they truly are, to let go of what they've outgrown, to rediscover their gifts, and create a life that feels aligned and deeply impactful.
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And so if that sparks something within you, you can find me at lyndabooker.com.
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Once again, the topic of today's conversation is how to handle difficult situations in business.
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And today I have the pleasure of being joined by Nancy Quinn of Profit Insider's Coaching.
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And Nancy's making her own beautiful ripples in her own unique way.
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Nancy has rebuilt her life a bunch of times, more than she said she liked to count.
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And now she helps interior designers to do the same with their businesses.
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She helps them fix their pricing, their systems, and she helps them with the confidence gaps that keep the talented designers exhausted and underpaid.
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And she does a whole lot more than that.
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So, Nancy, can you uh yeah, well, first of all, thank you for being here with us today on Conversations With Your While.
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And then I'm hoping you could share a little bit more about what you do and who you do it for.
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Absolutely.
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Well, thank you so much for having me, Linda.
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I really appreciate it.
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I love sharing the message and getting as much confidence-building skills out there into the world because I think it's something that really a lot of people struggle from.
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So, yes, as you said, I'm Nancy Quinn, and previously Nancy Ganserkofer, which is still out there on the internet, which is why I still say it.
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Um, I am probably the most direct and dynamic and no-nonsense business coach to primarily interior designers and other service-based entrepreneurs that you'll ever get to talk to.
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I'm originally from New York.
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Now I live in Florida, and I kind of have that no-nonsense New York style.
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So I help interior designers and other service-based entrepreneurs get more profitable through online coaching, trainings, templates, uh, communication skills, and I'm a body language trainer, which really helps in communication, networking, sales, et cetera.
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So that's what I do, and I love to share whatever I've learned over the years because I've made a lot of mistakes, as everyone has.
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Yeah, for sure.
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We all have as business owners and as humans.
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Um, the body language thing is very interesting.
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I hope we get into that today in our conversation.
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Um okay, so let's start with the difficult situations in business.
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Um, I'm sure everyone can relate.
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Um, sometimes um it's difficult for people to do the networking.
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Sometimes it's difficult for them to do the advertising or the marketing.
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Sometimes they get caught like a deer in headlights when they're asked about their pricing.
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There's a lot of difficulties that business owners go through.
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What are some of the ones that you see the most?
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Well, I want to start out by telling you a funny story, which is kind of where I wrote a book many years ago.
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It's called Respond with Confidence, and it's under my old name, Nancy Gansekofer.
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But what I did is a true story.
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The opening paragraph is um when I was an art framing and accessory consultant, I was working with an interior designer to get artwork for her home.
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And she ended up being a very difficult client for me because she kept changing her mind.
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And I'm summarizing the story.
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So she'd say, This is how much I want to spend, and this is what I want it to look like, and these are the subject matters, and I'd give her a whole bunch and she'd come back and go, Nah, I changed my mind.
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I want this.
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So well, she changed her mind.
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I think we were up to four or five times.
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And one night I'm sitting there with my three kids, TV's on, I got my computer, because you know, entrepreneurs, we work whenever we can.
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Right?
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So I'm I see this email come in where she's changing her mind again.
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So I hit forward, type, do you believe this blood bleep bleep woman?
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I am at my wit's end with her, right?
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Thinking I'm forwarding it to my assistant.
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Send.
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Can you can you predict what I actually did?
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You hit reply.
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Exactly.
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I hit reply.
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It was nine o'clock at night.
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I did not know what to do.
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It was back when blackberries were first out, but regular cell phones, you couldn't recall messages.
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And I, my two of my kids were teenagers, one was younger, I just started screaming.
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I just lifted up my laptop.
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I went, I realized it right away, Linda.
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And I was like, somebody show me how to recall this message.
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She has a blackberry, she's gonna get this right away.
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It was really a poor expression of who I was at the time.
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I very, very rarely would get frustrated like that, but it just between the kids, being tired, whatever excuses I wanted to give myself, I made a big mistake that was gonna affect uh business relationships.
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So what did I do?
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I jumped up, ran into a private bathroom, and called her right away.
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I addressed it right away, rather than going overnight and waiting for her to read it.
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And that nerves and that rumination I was really struggling with.
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I just messed up.
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How do I solve it?
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So got on the phone with her, had a quick conversation, begged her to delete and not read it.
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I will tell you, she definitely read it because she never called me again after that.
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And just as an additional little fun uh addition to this story.
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So I'm doing a presentation in front of 120 people on Long Island eight years later, after that situation.
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I had already written my book.
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I obviously gave her a pseudonym in the book.
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I didn't name who it was.
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I walk into this presentation on Long Island where I had been hired to do it, and everyone was getting a free book.
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It was in all the gift bags, and there she is right in front of me, as soon as I walked in the door.
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Oh my God, what am I gonna do?
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She doesn't even know I wrote a book, probably.
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She doesn't know she's the opening story in the book.
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She may not even remember.
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Anyway, once again, typical me, especially after writing my book.
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I'm like, I'm gonna address the situation right away.
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I walked right up to her.
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I said, Hi, I'm Nancy.
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Do you remember me?
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She goes, Of course I remember you.
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And we cleared the air.
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She laughed.
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She said, It's okay, we all make mistakes.
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And it ended up being quite a pleasant night.
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What a great story.
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That's fantastic.
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Um, and the little ending is really interesting too.
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So um, first I want to talk about the fact that, you know, a difficult client, like especially like in the interior design business, but in a lot of businesses, the ones that they're changing their mind and they're expecting you to, you know, do more for free, you know, right?
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And I was actually just talking about this on another podcast episode uh that's um that just came out, um uh regarding scope of work, you know, and in when you're writing your contract, she's a lawyer and how, you know, yeah, the the it scope creep is a real thing unless everything's black and white, yes or no.
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Like you will you can revise this three times.
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After the fourth time, you will pay this much, you know, whatever.
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So we do have some things like that, um, that that because it is real and true that we have clients like this, even you can be the best communicator, but you might still have difficult situations in business like this.
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Um, I love that you nip things in the bud.
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Um, a lot of people are feel way too awkward, way too self-conscious.
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Um, it's it's too, it's almost like between two evils of being in my head all night, or the the awkwardness of showing up and and feeling like I did something wrong and I'm so sorry and I have to fess up, that it's easier for them to be in their head.
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Like so I think sometimes my people might even choose staying in their head versus taking action and nipping it in the bud.
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So I think we should talk a little bit about the that fear, that fear of addressing what's going on, especially when we make it mean more about us.
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Yes.
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And and honestly, my first advice is always let's decompress first.
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Okay.
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Before we like that first story, I didn't have time to decompress.
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I ran into the bathroom and I just tried to deal with it and look, you know, didn't handle it too well, honestly.
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But the second time I did, before I actually walked up to her, I did think through.
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I decompressed, my heart was racing.
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I'm like, okay, let me calm myself down first, go talk to a couple of other people, then figure out in my head, um, you know, analyze my emotions, release some emotion and some nerves by, you know, getting it out there in whatever way I could, which was talking to a friend of mine that I had there.
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And then think through the solution, right?
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As opposed to just ruminating on what the story I think that person is telling them, and I get stuck.
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And now days later, weeks later, months later, people live in rumination for years and years, Linda.
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And it's so debilitating to their emotional health, to their emotional health.
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Um, so analyzing your emotions, understanding them, then releasing them, and then being solution focused is kind of where I try to direct everybody initially.
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Does that make sense?
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Oh, yeah, that absolutely makes sense.
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Um, and I can tell you that in all my 17 years of doing this um as a coach, um, a lot of people, that story is their whatever story they're making up is a go-to because they don't feel good enough in some way.
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And then when they make a mistake, it triggers that not enoughness that they're all walking around with.
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And if you don't address that that I'm not enoughness, then almost anything's gonna trigger you.
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Um, because what happens is then when someone asks more of us or whatever, and we feel like a victim, right?
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The victim is there's not I I'm not good enough, there's not enough for me.
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Uh everything always happens to me.
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That's all that victim mentality all happens because people don't feel good enough and they feel like life is happening to them, business is happening to them, they're attracting these poor clients or whatever.
00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:10.480
So it's it's worth noting that it's a really important place to start is to repair that sense of worthiness.
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Because if you don't believe that you're worthy of being treated uh beautifully instead of poorly, then you're gonna jump to the stories in your head, and you're gonna be if you don't believe that, you're gonna be less likely to actually take this action, to approach someone with that confidence, and you won't be able to calm yourself down.
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So knowing, like, wait a minute, you know, like you and I both know I shouldn't be treated that way.
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Okay, you know.
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So we have to know that we're enough in order to be able to say that.
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Um, and then like you're saying, get get, you know, the emotion is faster than all our logic.
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It's just woo, it's super fast.
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So we do have to take that time to really what you what you're saying, take a deep breath, decompress.
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You have to decompress because if you're just acting on pure emotion, what's going to come out is not going to give you the result you're looking for.
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And that's where I say so.
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Step two is assess the situation.
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So the first one is decompress.
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Go for a walk, jump up and down, talk to somebody, do some exercise, listen to some music, shake it out, scream, cry, do whatever you have to do.
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And then when your brain has come down from uh a ridiculous amount of emotion, that you cannot be a good communicator when you're in that type of emotion.
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That's the bottom line, right?
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So you have to decompress first.
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Then you want to assess the situation and you want to say, okay, do I understand where they were actually coming from?
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Maybe I misunderstood the situation.
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Am I telling myself a story about what they're thinking when they're not actually thinking that?
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Right.
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And when it did it all start, like when did the disagreement sort of start?
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And then sometimes, and this is the hard part, and this is what I went through.
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It's okay to be wrong sometimes.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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And we hate to admit it, but we have to say once in a while, we are wrong about something.
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And most of the time, it's from the stories we're telling ourselves.
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That other person must be thinking I'm too expensive.
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That's why they haven't responded to my proposal.
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Um, they must not like me and hired someone else because I haven't heard from them.
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All these stories you're telling yourself.
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How about we actually put facts and find out?
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That's where I literally say practically every day to at least one client, so that's the story you're telling yourself.
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So now let's put the facts behind it.
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Did they say that?
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Well, no.
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Do you know they mean that?
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No.
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So that's what you would think if it was you.
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But how about instead of just assumptions, which we all know what that does to people, we ask questions.
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We actually make the phone call, do the text, do the email.
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I haven't heard from you.
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Can I ask what's going on?
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And I love what some one of my clients coined the grandmother check-in.
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The final check-in on any follow-up is, gee, I haven't heard from you.
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I'm worried.
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Are you okay?
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Make it personal so that somebody can come back and go, I'm okay.
00:14:06.080 --> 00:14:12.720
And then you can have that conversation and find out what they were really thinking, not the pretend story you created.
00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:13.360
Right.
00:14:13.519 --> 00:14:13.840
Yeah.
00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:14.799
Yeah, that's a good point.
00:14:14.960 --> 00:14:15.600
So I love this.
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This reassess.
00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:27.919
Um, and one of the ways I kind of make it a little funny when I'm sharing this with people about the fact that you're telling a story instead of looking at the real facts is like two things.
00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:36.320
One is if it's, you know, you're making something up, a lot of times it's future-based, you know, they won't, right?
00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:37.519
That they're not going to.
00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:38.639
That's all in the future.
00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:40.799
And here's the thing about the future.
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:45.279
If you can tell the future, please just tell me tomorrow's lottery numbers.
00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:48.720
Because actually, I saw that Meg Millens, it's up to one billion dollars.
00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:51.840
I went by a billboard last night.
00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:52.480
One billion.
00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:53.440
I'm like, oh my God.
00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:53.679
Okay.
00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:56.879
So if anyone can tell the future, just please give me those numbers.
00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:58.639
I will share, I promise.
00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:00.799
Uh, the second thing is you're making up a story.
00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:06.399
So if you're gonna make up a story, if you insist on making up a story, why would you make one up with a bad ending?
00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:08.159
Why don't you make one up with a happy ending?
00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:10.480
Make it a fairy tale with a happy ending.
00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:11.759
You're making it up.
00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:18.000
And when when I say those two things, it's it's very it's very reminding to people when they're head in their heads, like, wait, I'm making a story.
00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:20.559
Oh, I should make one up with a happy ending, you know.
00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:24.879
Yes, what people don't understand is you're actually choosing what you're thinking about.
00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:34.559
You're choosing what you're thinking about, you're choosing how you're interpreting other people, all based on your own history, your own insecurities, your own brain power, right?
00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:42.159
So the only way to change it is to exercise it just like you would exercise any other muscle, muscle memory.
00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:44.320
Keep pointing out things you're grateful for.
00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:47.279
Everyone's heard this a million times, but it actually works.
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:55.039
But when you're communicating with somebody, what if it's not that they didn't like you and that that's why they haven't connected?
00:15:55.120 --> 00:15:57.039
It's not that you were too expensive.
00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:00.399
What if it's that their dog got sick?
00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:00.879
Right.
00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:04.639
And I just didn't get to get back to you in time.
00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:09.919
I mean, think about how many days people dwell on shit.
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:10.480
Okay.
00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:14.720
That that really doesn't affect their daily life.
00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:16.799
And all it does is ruin their life.
00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:19.120
So they're concerned, the client hasn't gotten back to me.
00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:20.480
It's been two days, it's been three days.
00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:21.840
How long should it be till I follow up?
00:16:21.919 --> 00:16:22.720
And what should I say?
00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:24.159
And what if they hired someone else?
00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:27.200
Then what should I then should I ask them why they didn't hire me?
00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:30.159
They literally go down this huge rabbit hole.
00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:34.080
Then I just say, call them and send me a message.
00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:37.600
And is everything okay?
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:44.320
Nine and a half times out of ten, I'll get, oh my god, Nancy, thank you so much for just telling me to call them.
00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:45.679
I made up that whole story.
00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:47.360
I ruined two of my life.
00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:51.200
And it was literally their mother-in-law is sick, and they just didn't get back to me.
00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:52.639
And I'm like, there you go.
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:53.360
Yeah, that's it.
00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:53.759
Exactly.
00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:54.240
Right?
00:16:54.799 --> 00:17:08.480
That's why after you decompress and then you assess the situation from their perspective and your perspective, then I want you to address it by picking up that phone, making the giving the text, find out the real story.
00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:11.200
And here's the kicker, and you know this one, Linda.
00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:12.720
Be a good listener.
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:18.480
Stop staying in your head with the story you're trying to prove to yourself and reading between the lines.
00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:20.559
Actually, listen to their words.
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:22.720
That's what they want you to know.
00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:30.240
You don't need to go digging into all the other stuff that they may be thinking because of your own insecurities.
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:37.680
And confidence comes from actually select like um successfully doing something over and over.
00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:44.079
So, real confidence, yes, dig into why you feel that way, your past, your thought process, all that.
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:45.359
I'm all for that.
00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:51.119
But also then take the action because the action is what's going to build your confidence.
00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:55.519
Every time you successfully do something you're afraid of, it builds that muscle.
00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:57.039
Yes, that's very true.
00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:01.119
I love that you've broken this down into these steps for our listeners.
00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:02.240
It's fantastic.
00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:09.039
Because you're, you know, you're in the assessment, you're talking about assess what's really going on in your head, what the truth is.
00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:10.000
Their head.
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:11.680
What could have been going on in their head?
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:12.480
Look at it from both.
00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:15.440
Right, from both, but also assessing what's going on in your own head.
00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:18.319
Oh, I am telling a story, I'm making it up, right?
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:20.000
Um fear.
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:21.920
It's all fear doing that.
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:24.079
And again, the triggers of our own insecurities.
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:25.039
I love that you brought that up.
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:31.519
I like to say that everyone is looking at the world through these goggles that are all covered in schmutz.
00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:34.160
It's our own schmutz, it's our own fears and insecurities.
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:37.279
You mentioned that, um, and you know, our own history.
00:18:37.440 --> 00:18:44.799
And so we can't help but take but it but see life like that and assume other people are seeing life the same way.
00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:49.279
And they're not, because they're seeing it through their own lens and their own goggles of their own stuff.
00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:55.039
Or they think the other person is completely misguided because they're not thinking the way you're thinking, right, exactly.
00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:55.359
Right.
00:18:55.519 --> 00:19:02.240
But we have zero control over what people think of us, our services, our pricing.
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:03.680
We have zero control.
00:19:04.160 --> 00:19:12.319
And so, you know, to be open and honest and get to this next step, you're talking about where you're you're in action, where you're well, okay, let's go get those facts.
00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:15.519
Let's ask, let's see what's actually going on.
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:27.839
And it's a huge fear reliever because what's going on is nine times out of ten, it's much less fearful than what you were, the story you were spinning in your head.
00:19:28.160 --> 00:19:31.119
So when you actually do it, like, oh, I guess that wasn't so bad.
00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:32.720
It wasn't so bad after all.
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:34.240
It's not so bad after all.
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:36.880
And here's a story that I've used.
00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:41.359
Uh so my oldest had a lot of issues when he was growing up.
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:52.720
And one of the psychologists who I was working with to help me be the mom of this uh child who was having difficulties, he would say to me, observe the tornado.
00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:55.519
Don't get sucked into it, right?
00:19:55.839 --> 00:20:03.359
So my son would spin a tornado about all kinds of emotional stuff, uh, the what people were thinking and all his insecurities.
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:07.759
And as a new mom, sometimes you get stuck in, like, oh my God, yeah, that's really terrible.
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:22.640
And the other kids, where I started to learn to just step back, be a really good listener, hear what he had to say, his perspective, but not get sucked up into his tornado, because that's when my emotions would start spinning, also.
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:31.599
And then I'm stuck in having to decompress, assess, and address it again rather than right from the beginning, just say it's happening.
00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:34.400
It's their tornado, it's not mine.
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:40.319
And I'm not going to get my emotions wrapped up in it where I can no longer think clearly.
00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:47.519
So learn to be an observer and less of a vortex getting sucked into someone else's drama.
00:20:47.759 --> 00:20:49.680
Yeah, that's a really great point.
00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:56.000
I have a different story of how I tell that, but um, you already said it beautifully, so I won't, I won't share that.
00:20:56.160 --> 00:21:04.799
But um we to recognize that we have the power to be an observer or get sucked in.
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:07.759
And we can choose not to get sucked in.
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:15.279
You can look at someone and say, like a lot of times with people who are nasty, because they're nasty, there's nasty people out there, unfortunately.
00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:19.519
A, what you mentioned earlier is we don't know why they're nasty.
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:22.240
You have no idea what's going on that person's life.
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:24.559
It's probably not all about you at all.
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:26.400
It probably has nothing to do with you.
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:28.160
So can we have some compassion?
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:32.559
Because you might have a day where it's not your best day and you couldn't be any better than nasty.
00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:37.920
This is the best that person can do in that day with what's going on in their life, their own schmutz, their own history.
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:43.440
So even when it's someone that you care about, sometimes that they're like a wounded animal in the corner.
00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:45.519
If you go in, you're gonna get scratched and bit.
00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:50.240
So maybe you need to step back and love them from afar and and be compassionate.
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:52.480
Say, wow, they seem to be going through something.
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:57.839
You know, probably the best thing for me to do would be to hold a space, not get sucked in, just hold a space.
00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:59.680
Give them space and let them get.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.160
Through their moment and let them find their way of decompressing.
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:06.319
Yes, because we can't do it for other people.
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:07.519
They won't have that skill.
00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:08.240
It's better.
00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:09.519
I love that you mentioned that.
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:11.519
Let them find their own way.
00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:12.480
Yeah.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:13.039
Yeah.
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:14.480
Let them go and decompress.
00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:19.839
And, you know, I have core values that I, you know, run my life by.
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:21.119
Am I always perfect with them?
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:21.440
No.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:24.559
But I also say with my company, like we have core values.
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:31.920
You know, um, one of our, it sounds crazy, you're gonna laugh, but one of our values is no apologies in within my team.
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:36.720
Like if my team makes a mistake or I make a mistake, I don't want to hear I'm sorry.
00:22:36.880 --> 00:22:39.599
All I want to hear is, okay, Nancy, this happened.
00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:42.400
This is how it happened, and this is how it's not gonna happen again.
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:43.759
And I'm like, okay, good.
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:51.920
Like, you know, the I'm sorry is just empty if you're not gonna change your behavior to change the, you know, the outcome.
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:54.240
And I feel the same way in my own life.
00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:57.839
Like, there are times you have to say you're sorry, and I get that.
00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:08.559
But for the most part, it's I'm sorry, and this is what happened, this is why it happened, and this is what I put in place so it doesn't happen anymore.
00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:17.359
Or it's not gonna happen anymore because it's a past situation and a past system, past process, or you know, past in your life.
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:22.799
So there's so much to communicating well with other people.
00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:31.119
And there's so many difficult situations that everyone runs into every day in their personal life and in their business life.
00:23:31.279 --> 00:23:40.400
And if you're not comfortable communicating through difficult situations, it's something I don't want you to give up on trying to learn because it is something you can learn.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:56.960
And as a body language trainer, you can also learn to read what people's emotions are, maybe different from what they're seeing when you're presenting contracts or whether you're networking with someone or whether what you're saying is uh distasteful to them or something that's appealing to them.
00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:04.079
There are things you can look for that will give you clues as to whether you're being received the way you want to be received.
00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:14.640
That's a that's beautiful thing because um a lot of times people are unaware of what they're communicating nonverbally.
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:15.839
They they're not aware.
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:19.440
Okay, I I know I have I could never play poker.
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:22.559
Okay, my eyebrows, they're like they got their own minds.
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:26.880
You know, if I if I am surprised by something, they're way up there.
00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:30.240
I have no control over my facial expressions.
00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:31.839
So I'm super readable.
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:51.519
Um, but I'd love if you would explain, would share a little bit, just you know, before we hang up, just a little bit about um how we how we might be communicating something, so how we can notice it in others, but also recognize if we're doing if we're in a non-verbal, you know, giving a nonverbal cue we don't intend to give, you know.
00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:52.880
There's so many of them.
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:53.839
Let me pick a few.
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:58.160
Okay, so you know, first of all, eye contact is very important, right?
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:00.079
And a lot of people are not good at it.
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:02.480
So that's something I definitely want people to practice.
00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:11.279
But there's one little trick that's uh people love, and especially when I do this at a live event, when you're there's three different types of gazes.
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:18.079
Okay, there's a power gaze, there's an intimate gaze, and then there's the um like the friendship gaze.
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:20.319
I try to put it in words that people understand.
00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:25.279
The leadership or power gaze, there people do it naturally or they can learn to do it.
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:30.880
Where when you're looking someone in the eye, you're looking them in the eye, but naturally your eyes wander, they look around, okay?
00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:39.680
If you're trying to be kind of like that friendly, I want to be your friend, I want you to like me, what you're doing is looking at their eyes and your eyes wander down towards their mouth.
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:43.279
You know, you look at their mouth just for comprehension.
00:25:43.519 --> 00:26:04.000
But if you want to become more the leader in that environment, which could be a proposal you're presenting, you're walking into a room with a client for the first time, uh, you're you're in front of a room making a presentation or running a meeting, when you look at people, don't let your eyes wander below their eye level, wander above their eye level.
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:11.279
So this was a triangle from eyes to mouth, okay, and this invert the triangle to eyes to forehead.
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:24.079
The people who naturally power gaze, and if you start noticing, it's people who are leaders, managers, supervisors, people who are considered efficient tend to power gaze naturally.
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:30.000
And intimate gaze is for your intimate life, and that's your eye level all the way down to like the nape of your neck, right?
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:31.839
That's when you're a romantic partner.
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:33.680
So business.
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:42.079
Um, so switching your gaze and practicing it is a game changer when it comes to sales.
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:43.599
It's a game changer.
00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:51.119
You will sell more if you're selling in person for sure, and even on video, there's tricks where you are considered the leader.
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:56.559
When I walk into a room for a networking event, I'm often later being asked, would you like to run a committee?
00:26:56.720 --> 00:26:58.960
Would you like to be the president of it?
00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:00.799
Because I'm naturally power gazing.
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:06.079
I had to teach myself to social gaze because I was a natural power gazer.
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:06.640
Okay.
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:16.880
So just creative people tend to be natural social gazers and um business people who are very business-minded tend to be natural power gazers.
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:18.240
So you can train yourself.
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:19.680
So watch for that.
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:28.799
And if you want to make yourself more perceived as the leader in control of a process, try the power gaze and see how it works for you.
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:30.720
Oh, what a fun tip.
00:27:30.880 --> 00:27:32.000
That's fantastic.
00:27:32.240 --> 00:27:33.279
All right, great.
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:47.200
Okay, so I always like to ask about um, I mean, that could be your tiny tip, unless you have another tiny tip that you want to share about handling difficult situations more, you know, in alignment with our conversation today.
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:57.119
Um I call it the tiny tip or turtle step, which is the smallest step someone will actually take uh before hitting play on the next podcast episode.
00:27:57.279 --> 00:27:59.440
Um so what would you like to share with that?
00:27:59.759 --> 00:28:03.119
I would like to remind everybody, it's an oldie but a goodie.
00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:08.400
Write down, use your writing skills when you need to decompress journal.
00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:10.400
Rip it up and throw it out if you have to.
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:14.400
Type it in a private uh Word doc on your computer.
00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:24.880
Writing is so decompressing to get it all out on paper helps you relax and helps you decompress.
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:34.720
So before you're handling any difficult conversation, do that first and make sure that you're understanding where your own mind sits before you respond to anyone.
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:36.480
That's a beautiful suggestion.
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:48.079
Writing absolutely slows us down and makes us pay attention to our thoughts and put them down on paper, and then we can read them later and say, Oh, I just needed to vent that.
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:49.680
I just need to get that out.
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:56.400
Um, you know, I I love the idea of we take got to take responsibility for the our own shit that's in our head.
00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.680
Yeah, we don't give it away to people, it's ours.
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:04.319
I've told so many people, uh, well, they're like, well, what if they say this and what if they say that?
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:07.440
And what if they are trying to prepare for the next step?
00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:10.640
And I say, How about we deal with that when it happens?
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:10.960
Right.
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:16.319
And you're knowledgeable enough to be able to say, Let me think about that and get back to you.
00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:19.839
You don't have to respond to people right in the moment.
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:24.400
You can, it's okay for you as an adult to say, I'm not prepared to answer that right now.
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:25.920
I will get back to you on that.
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:27.119
And that's okay.
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:28.240
Yes, 100%.
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:52.240
And in difficult conversations, um, you know, I'll I'll share with my clients that, you know, when it comes to boundaries, and I we don't have time to get into all that today, um, but when you know the boundary is what you do for yourself, it's it's something for you, not about the other person, and it's certainly not about behavior modification of the other person, because that's not within your power.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:54.000
So it's what am I gonna do for me?
00:29:54.240 --> 00:30:04.160
So if what you're gonna do for you in a difficult situation or difficult conversation is to take it some, take a breather and go decompress, go take that five minutes and decompress.
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:08.640
And you can communicate it, which is another important part of any boundary.
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:11.680
If you don't communicate it, then nobody knows it's a boundary.
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:16.160
And then the third one is you have to enforce it 100% of the time, or else it's just bitching.
00:30:16.400 --> 00:30:18.319
So we have to com we have to enforce it.
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:21.920
And the enforcement is um I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a breather.
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:25.359
I'm having, you know, I'm I can't think straight right now because I'm feeling emotional.
00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:26.640
I'm gonna go take a breather.
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:29.440
And what that does beautifully is you take the breather.
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:33.519
The other person also has to take the breather because they can't be, you know, you're taking the breather.
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:37.119
And they're taking a cue from you that, oh, you're getting emotional, you're not thinking straight.
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:39.920
Perhaps I'm getting emotional, I'm not thinking straight, right?
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:49.680
And then when you come back, and like you mentioned earlier, you know, I I was wrong, or you know, I wasn't thinking straight and I wanna I want to listen more.
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:51.039
You know, there's yeah.
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:53.759
Said that and let me try it again.
00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:55.680
Like maybe there was a better way I could have said that.
00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:57.519
You know, that's also an apology, right?
00:30:57.599 --> 00:31:00.799
I make sure I could have said that better and that upset you.
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:02.319
So let's try it again.
00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:04.319
Yeah, but yeah.
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:09.279
So I guess the bottom line, my little five-second tip would be give yourself some grace.
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:11.279
Give yourself some grace.
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:13.440
You don't need to be perfect.
00:31:13.599 --> 00:31:16.960
Um, you're you're not a victim of difficult situations.
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:29.599
You have a lot more power and a lot more freedom and a lot more control than you think when it comes to you and your thinking and how you're going to handle it, and zero power and control over what the other person or the situation is.
00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:43.519
So, um, how you choose to respond and if you take these steps that Nancy's been sharing with us, um, it's a really easy way to remember to uh respond, and then you can respond with grace and with confidence.
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:45.039
So, well, how beautiful.
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:48.640
Thank you so much, Nancy, for being on Conversations Worth Your While.
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:54.240
Um, if somebody wants a little bit more of your magic and what you got, like what can they do?
00:31:54.319 --> 00:31:55.440
How can they connect with you?
00:31:55.519 --> 00:31:56.559
What do you have?
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:02.880
I would say go to my website, profitinsiderscoaching.com, and I give a free 15-minute clarity call.
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:12.799
I think sometimes when people are in a state of either their business is not doing well, they're not working well with their boss, they're just not happy with what their professional life is doing.
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:14.319
They need someone to talk to.
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:15.519
That's what I'm there for.
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:19.119
If you hop on for a clarity call, we'll have a quick 15-minute chat.
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:21.519
And if I can help you further, I'll let you know.
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:26.640
And if I can direct you to something that will help you, other than me, I will let you know.
00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:32.799
I'm always honest because I want to work with people who actually are a good match for me and I'm a good match for them.
00:32:33.119 --> 00:32:34.240
Perfect, beautiful.
00:32:34.480 --> 00:32:41.279
I will be sure to put all your information in the show notes so listeners, you can go to the show notes so you can connect with Nancy.
00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:42.319
So that's our show.
00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:49.279
I'm Linda Booker, guiding people to know their worth, to reconnect with their gifts, and to create lives that are fully aligned and deeply impactful.
00:32:49.440 --> 00:33:01.839
So if you're sensing time that it's time to bring your life into deeper alignment, you can explore what that looks like at lindabooker.com where you'll find direction and clarity and a link to book a complimentary clarity chat with me.
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If today's episode sparks something for you, please like it and share it and subscribe so you don't miss what's next.
00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:12.799
And then join me next week for another uplifting conversation designed to support your growth.
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So until next time, make sure you've made this conversation worth your while by fueling the spark that it ignited.
